Re: [CTRL] Slavery (was: Stampeding Bison)
-Caveat Lector- On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a couple more comments on this thread from me: (1) I would have to concur with Hawk's post in substance. I've only met one admitted Klan member personally but I know they are around. although impotent. We did have a nationally publicized shoot out here about 20 years ago between the Klan and Socialists and there are true horror stories, but don't buy into rhetoric from "pop stars" like Mia Angelo (I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings). I don't think anyone would pay any attention to her if she hadn't read an awful poem at Clinton's 1992 Inagural. Au contraireMaya Angelou (at least learn how to correctly spell her name) has been around for decades, and was well known in literary circles way before Clinton had her at his inaugeration Duke University pays her a tenured salary not to teach. What documentation do you have for such an assertion? June === The melancholy days are come, the saddest of the year, Of wailing winds and naked woods, and meadows brown and sear. -- Wm. Cullen Bryant: The Death of the Flowers === *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slavery (was: Stampeding Bison)
-Caveat Lector- On Sun, 10 Jan 1999, Hawk wrote: You might consider that this gal is pulling your leg... Of course, such a story HAS to be a lie, doesn't it? There is no reason for me to suspect she was lying about this, as she was NOT the type to 'pull one's leg' over anything, let alone a subject of this magnitude... Her husband, also from the South, related similar experiences... As have blacks of an older generation than their's...you see, I HAVE talked to more than one black person who grew up in the South... I'm not saying that she necessarily is lying, Sure you are...at least be honest about THAT... but I have lived in the South my entire life and have never met anyone associated with the KKK. I suppose you would like us to believe that the KKK doesn't even exist I suppose all those lynched blacks hung themselves Have you bothered to check the Klan-watch reports of KKK activity... There are more KKK members in Ohio and Indiana than there are in the entire South, according to the avowed enemies of the KKK. The northern and mid-western states have FAR MORE KKK members than the Southern states. That's not the point...the point of my statement was that these college- educated blacks -- who got their education at BLACK colleges, since they weren't 'allowed' to attend the white state colleges -- could not find employment in their field in the South, due to their skin color...they had to come North to gain employment in the field they'd gotten their degree in... I'm sure blacks were given equal opportunity to plant clear fields -- for someone else. How many blacks OWNED this property they worked on...? I'd be interested in knowing those figures too... How many were there, June? That is what I'm asking How many blacks do you figure owned the northern factories they worked in? They at least had the opportunity to be shift supervisors and managers... or college professors in integrated colleges, managers of integrated businesses How many blacks were allowed to take over important office and factory jobs, supervisory and managerial positions, when the 'able bodied men' (black men WEREN'T 'able bodied'?) were away at war? "Allowed to take over" ??? Are those jobs just "allotted" to folks, or do they normally have to qualify for them? I was using the wording the previous poster had used, in stating that blacks were 'allowed' to work 'equally' with whites in the fields when 'all the able bodied men' were away at war...so I just wanted to know how many blacks also 'worked equally' with whites in positions of authority in the factories and offices, when the 'abled bodied men' who'd worked there were also off to war... June === The melancholy days are come, the saddest of the year, Of wailing winds and naked woods, and meadows brown and sear. -- Wm. Cullen Bryant: The Death of the Flowers === *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [Fwd: [CTRL] Slavery (was: Stampeding Bison)]
-Caveat Lector- On Sun, 10 Jan 1999, Jim Norman wrote: --and the north treated them with respect? The South had farms The North had Manufacturing. And professional positions not open to them in the south... It may help to remember that the North, after winning the Civil war did not free their slaves as they forced the South to. And Lincoln had no intentions of freeing the slaves until he needed an issue to keep France and Spain out of the war. You remember that part don't you? I know very well that Lincoln was not 'The Great Emancipator' that history has made him out to be...and I also know that the Emancipation Proclamation was made to keep ENGLAND from entering the war on the side of the Confederacy, NOT France and Spain...France and Spain had no overt interest in the war, while England was extremely dependent on the cotton imported from the American South... 1. I don't know why you say black men were not able bodied; _I_ didn't...YOU seemed to imply it in your statement... You also didn't answer my question regarding how many blacks got positions of importance in the factories and offices, positions vacated by able-bodied white men who were off to war... 2. None of the folks (including whites) who lived in Claxton were capable of supervising or managing a factory;and So the only thing you can state with any authority is what you observed as a very young child who was a member of a race which had more privileges than those of the black race, processed thru a child's perspective, and limited to a very specific (and not normal) era, and a small geographical area which was not necessarily indicative of the South as a whole... June === The melancholy days are come, the saddest of the year, Of wailing winds and naked woods, and meadows brown and sear. -- Wm. Cullen Bryant: The Death of the Flowers === *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slavery (was: Stampeding Bison)
-Caveat Lector- YnrChyldzWyld wrote: -Caveat Lector- On Sun, 10 Jan 1999, Hawk wrote: You might consider that this gal is pulling your leg... Of course, such a story HAS to be a lie, doesn't it? No it doesn't but then, maybe it is.. or maybe its exaggerated... But, it could be the truth... What I said was "consider" ... There is no reason for me to suspect she was lying about this, as she was NOT the type to 'pull one's leg' over anything, let alone a subject of this magnitude... However, you do suspect that anyone who reports a different experience is lying, unless I misread your intent. Her husband, also from the South, related similar experiences... As have blacks of an older generation than their's...you see, I HAVE talked to more than one black person who grew up in the South... That's good... perhaps in another 40 years or so, you will have talked to almost as many as I have, considering I've lived in the South most of my life. I'm not saying that she necessarily is lying, Sure you are...at least be honest about THAT... Well, I guess your accusation is a bit more than "implied." You, Sir, have no basis upon which to accuse me of lying about anything. If you know I any lie that I have told, produce it, or retract your accusation... but I have lived in the South my entire life and have never met anyone associated with the KKK. I suppose you would like us to believe that the KKK doesn't even exist If you want to believe something that isn't true, you certainly can. I don't believe I encouraged you to do so. You seem to have a little difficulty separating fact from fancy... You are a very imaginitive fellow, it appears. I suppose all those lynched blacks hung themselves Not very likely... at least no more likely than the ones lynched in New York City and other places outside the South. I've often wondered, and you may be able to inform me, just how many blacks have been lynched? Do you have a state-by-state breakdown on those numbers? Is it something that was quite common in the South, but somehow it just escaped my notice? Have you bothered to check the Klan-watch reports of KKK activity... There are more KKK members in Ohio and Indiana than there are in the entire South, according to the avowed enemies of the KKK. The northern and mid-western states have FAR MORE KKK members than the Southern states. That's not the point...the point of my statement was that these college- educated blacks -- who got their education at BLACK colleges, since they weren't 'allowed' to attend the white state colleges -- How old are these people? I am 61 years old, and attended a state college with black student, in the South. could not find employment in their field in the South, due to their skin color... so they say There may be another side to that story... I am a mangement consultant with over 500 client companies, most of which are in the south, and I specialize in employment law... From my experience, capable and qualified black applicants are on every manager's "wish list." they had to come North to gain employment in the field they'd gotten their degree in... Yeah, OK... I'm glad they obtained gainful employment somewhere. I'm sure blacks were given equal opportunity to plant clear fields -- for someone else. How many blacks OWNED this property they worked on...? I'd be interested in knowing those figures too... How many were there, June? That is what I'm asking Do your own research. I thought, on the basis of your question, that you had some evidence that blacks were not allowed to own farms, or something. I assure you that any black person with the money to buy a farm would not have a lot of trouble finding a willing seller of such properties. How many blacks do you figure owned the northern factories they worked in? They at least had the opportunity to be shift supervisors and managers... or college professors in integrated colleges, managers of integrated businesses Same here the North is not unique in that. How many blacks were allowed to take over important office and factory jobs, supervisory and managerial positions, when the 'able bodied men' (black men WEREN'T 'able bodied'?) were away at war? "Allowed to take over" ??? Are those jobs just "allotted" to folks, or do they normally have to qualify for them? I was using the wording the previous poster had used, in stating that blacks were 'allowed' to work 'equally' with whites in the fields when 'all the able bodied men' were away at war...so I just wanted to know how many blacks also 'worked equally' with whites in positions of authority in the factories and offices, when the 'abled bodied men' who'd worked there were also off to war... I couldn't answer that question... I will say that from about 1950 I worked at several jobs where I had black supervisors. I do not deny that discrimination exists because of race, and am
Re: [CTRL] Slavery (was: Stampeding Bison)
-Caveat Lector- On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Hawk wrote: You are a very imaginitive fellow, it appears. Not as imaginative as you, if you imagine that I am a 'fellow'... so they say There may be another side to that story... I am a mangement consultant with over 500 client companies, most of which are in the south, and I specialize in employment law... From my experience, capable and qualified black applicants are on every manager's "wish list." Not in the 40s, 50s, and early 60s... June === The melancholy days are come, the saddest of the year, Of wailing winds and naked woods, and meadows brown and sear. -- Wm. Cullen Bryant: The Death of the Flowers === *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [Fwd: [CTRL] Slavery (was: Stampeding Bison)]
-Caveat Lector- YnrChyldzWyld wrote: -Caveat Lector- On Sun, 10 Jan 1999, Jim Norman wrote: --and the north treated them with respect? The South had farms The North had Manufacturing. And professional positions not open to them in the south... What professional positions? There were lots of positions not available to lots of people. You make it sound like "if you were white you got the big professional job with the big bucks." and if you were black, you got nothing. This is bunk. You'll have to come up with something better than this. I don't even think you believe this. It may help to remember that the North, after winning the Civil war did not free their slaves as they forced the South to. And Lincoln had no intentions of freeing the slaves until he needed an issue to keep France and Spain out of the war. You remember that part don't you? I know very well that Lincoln was not 'The Great Emancipator' that history has made him out to be...and I also know that the Emancipation Proclamation was made to keep ENGLAND from entering the war on the side of the Confederacy, NOT France and Spain...France and Spain had no overt interest in the war, while England was extremely dependent on the cotton imported from the American South... ---Well now, we have a start... 1. I don't know why you say black men were not able bodied; _I_ didn't...YOU seemed to imply it in your statement... nope, I have nothing but respect for the folks I grew up with. You also didn't answer my question regarding how many blacks got positions of importance in the factories and offices, positions vacated by able-bodied white men who were off to war... ---I don't know. That was not my job. I do know that there were many free black men who owned large successful farms who would not give two jerks for a 'position of importance'. 2. None of the folks (including whites) who lived in Claxton were capable of supervising or managing a factory;and So the only thing you can state with any authority is what you observed as a very young child who was a member of a race which had more privileges than those of the black race, processed thru a child's perspective, and limited to a very specific (and not normal) era, and a small geographical area which was not necessarily indicative of the South as a whole... ---Now we're making progress. The things I state with any authority is what I observed , first hand over a period of 14 years total, as a very yound child (who worked 10 hours a day and had no childhood) thru puberty as a member of the white race... and limited to a very specific era and a small geographical area which was indicative of simular area's all over this country. There was area's of racial violence, in some parts of the country, but it was not the normal. Lots of kid's, like me, were raised in this fashion. Having a 'position of authority' was not important to any of us. Having a good rifle to shoot squirrels with and a good sharp knife were higher priority. My uncle would not go the the outhouse without a sharp knife. Winning the turkey shoot at Thanksgiving and having brag'gin rights til the next shoot was more important. Survival was big too. Thank you for your considerate language and attitude. My purpose for providing my background as my bonifide's in this debate is not to change you or your convictions. It is to demonstrate that there are two truths. The truths we believe because we were taught, or through propaganda by the media; and then the real world truths. The truth we live that shapes our character. The very same that exist in the polls that Clinton is so fond of quoting. While the polls say Clinton hung the moon, I personally can not find any one who believes that. And by the way, do you know why Clinton did not inhale? June === The melancholy days are come, the saddest of the year, Of wailing winds and naked woods, and meadows brown and sear. -- Wm. Cullen Bryant: The Death of the Flowers === *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and
Re: [CTRL] Slavery (was: Stampeding Bison)
-Caveat Lector- YnrChyldzWyld wrote: -Caveat Lector- On Sat, 9 Jan 1999, Jim Norman wrote: I was raised in the old South in Claxton, Georgia 1941-1949 and I can tell you from personal experience that the old South I experienced respected everyone. There was no racial tension as today. Black people wanted to be with their kind and whites wanted the same. Bull. That's what you WANT to believe, to justify your racism. Oh... So am I to gather from this that YOU know more of what HE experienced than he does? My experience is pretty close to his, although I wouldn't say there was "no" racial tension. It just wasn't a very big issue with blacks or whites. You can call me a racist if you wish, but before you do, you should check the racial mixture of my family. Try talking to the BLACKS who lived in the South at that time (as I have), and see if they were oh so content as you would like to believe... Try? I talked every day with BLACKS who were living in the South -- along with me -- at that time... You might want to consider that personal, first-hand, on-the-scene experience counts for something maybe even more than "having A black friend" -- you have ONE black friend? Only one who grew up in the South... On the other hand, I have MANY black friends who grew up in the South WITH ME. I have a black friend who grew up down south, having to watch the local KKK'rs walk by her house -- in full regalia -- going to and from their meetings...and being made to smile and wave to them...I can tell you, SHE and her family were NOT content, but knew what they had to do to keep from being lynched and their house burned down... You might consider that this gal is pulling your leg... and you've fallen for it, hook-line-and-sinker. I'm not saying that she necessarily is lying, but I have lived in the South my entire life and have never met anyone associated with the KKK. I have never met a black person who has encountered anyone I have seen KKK "rallies" on TV, and it is almost comical... There are about six KKK-ers, 600 policemen, 500 "news" reporters, and 50 or 60 hecklers booing the KKK guys. Regarding the anecdotal "evidence" of your black frined... Most of us have heard of black author (cannot think of her last name) who wrote "I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings," and her horrifying tales of KKK rampages in her home town, even directed at her poor terrified family... Well, my wife grew up during the time period of the book, living about 500 yards from those "terrified black folks"... Who, by the way, were middle-class store owners (what passed for a convenience store in those days)... My wife and her sisters went almost daily to that place of business, which was next to the home of the "terrified blacks." There's a reason they moved up North...because the South didn't provide them the opportunities in employment the North did, because of their race... Have you bothered to check the Klan-watch reports of KKK activity... There are more KKK members in Ohio and Indiana than there are in the entire South, according to the avowed enemies of the KKK. The northern and mid-western states have FAR MORE KKK members than the Southern states. Lest you jump to conclusions, I hasten to add that I know that racism exists and has existed in the South (as well as the North), and that I am opposed to what I know of the KKK as it exists in our modern day. But I think black comedian/philosopher Dick Gregory was pretty close to right when he said, "In the South, they don't care how *close* we get, as long as we don't get too rich. In the North, they don't care how rich we get, as long as we don't get too close." We worked together Black and White to plant and clear the crops since most of the able bodied men were still at war. I'm sure blacks were given equal opportunity to plant clear fields -- for someone else. How many blacks OWNED this property they worked on...? I'd be interested in knowing those figures too... How many were there, June? How many blacks do you figure owned the northern factories they worked in? How many owned the Hotels they worked in? Who was keeping them from buying those factories, farms, and hotels? How many blacks were allowed to take over important office and factory jobs, supervisory and managerial positions, when the 'able bodied men' (black men WEREN'T 'able bodied'?) were away at war? "Allowed to take over" ??? Are those jobs just "allotted" to folks, or do they normally have to qualify for them? Oh, that's a rhetorical question... Of course nowadays, they ARE allotted... its called "Affirmative Action" and "Racial Set-Aside" programs... Hawk DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by
Re: [CTRL] Slavery (was: Stampeding Bison)
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/10/99 12:05:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lest you jump to conclusions, I hasten to add that I know that racism exists and has existed in the South (as well as the North), and that I am opposed to what I know of the KKK as it exists in our modern day. But I think black comedian/philosopher Dick Gregory was pretty close to right when he said, " In the South, they don't care how *close* we get, as long as we don't get too rich. In the North, they don't care how rich we get, as long as we don't get too close." Just a couple more comments on this thread from me: (1) I would have to concur with Hawk's post in substance. I've only met one admitted Klan member personally but I know they are around. although impotent. We did have a nationally publicized shoot out here about 20 years ago between the Klan and Socialists and there are true horror stories, but don't buy into rhetoric from "pop stars" like Mia Angelo (I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings). I don't think anyone would pay any attention to her if she hadn't read an awful poem at Clinton's 1992 Inagural. Duke University pays her a tenured salary not to teach. (2) My father grew up in Chicago and lived in SC for a few years after he married my mother. What he said to her is similiar to Dick Gregory's. . "In the North we love the black man as a race but hate as an individual. In the South you love him as an individual and hate him as a race." Jim DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slavery (was: Stampeding Bison)
-Caveat Lector- I have a black friend who grew up down south, having to watch the local KKK'rs walk by her house -- in full regalia -- going to and from their meetings...and being made to smile and wave to them...I can tell you, KKK is alive and well in the north, couple years ago there was a demonstration, in Racine..heck that was broadcasted nationally don't you remember ? I have newspaper accounts telling about their meetings and such in Wisconsin, and Illinois. You want me to get them out ? SHE and her family were NOT content, but knew what they had to do to keep from being lynched and their house burned down... Again, blacks were and are discriminated up north, we can not discount that as being national...you got to remember when the slaves were freed there were no allowances made for them. The north was becoming industralized, there were no unions and the black labor force, this new labor force was a threat to those up here. Besides that many of our soldiers had died, for the preservation of the Union, and the freeing of the slaves...there was bitterness that their loved ones were gone, that communities disappeared due to this war. There's a reason they moved up North...because the South didn't provide them the opportunities in employment the North did, because of their race... There were many laws enacted prohibiting them to move into certain stateslook at the demographics how many blacks live in the south compared to the north. Everyone of them supposedly had the opportunity to move up north, by what you said, percentage wise how many did ? We worked together Black and White to plant and clear the crops since most of the able bodied men were still at war. -You still see this black and whites working together peacefully, respectfully...in the south. There is a percentage that is always more noticeable and vocal than the majority, and that is what one has to go by. I'm sure blacks were given equal opportunity to plant clear fields -- for someone else. How many blacks OWNED this property they worked on...? The major slave holder in the South was a freed black man from La, do you want name and details...can get them. How many blacks were allowed to take over important office and factory jobs, supervisory and managerial positions, when the 'able bodiedmen' (black men WEREN'T 'able bodied'?) were away at war? Blacks had joined the Confederate Army and fought right along side the rest, they got paid the same...up north the white soldier got $13 a month, and the black got $10 a month It is not regional Well he must have been a pistol, because isn't he the guy who was making love to a lady in one of the White House cloakrooms while his guards held off his wife who was trying to get in to attack them? Prudy You mean that was not Hillary ?? HmmG Sorry I couldn't resist. - === The melancholy days are come, the saddest of the year, Of wailing winds and naked woods, and meadows brown and sear. -- Wm. Cullen Bryant: The Death of the Flowers === *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL
[CTRL] [Fwd: [CTRL] Slavery (was: Stampeding Bison)]
-Caveat Lector- YnrChyldzWyld wrote: -Caveat Lector- On Sat, 9 Jan 1999, Jim Norman wrote: I was raised in the old South in Claxton, Georgia 1941-1949 and I can tell you from personal experience that the old South I experienced respected everyone. There was no racial tension as today. Black people wanted to be with their kind and whites wanted the same. Bull. That's what you WANT to believe, to justify your racism. --Nope, its the truth. No racism on my part. I did't talk with black people for a few minutes, I lived it every day after day. You have no reason to call me a racist. You read my little history which I have absolutly no reason to lie about, reporting to you how it was in my neck of the woods and because that does'nt agree with your preconceived beliefs, you resort to calling me names? Do you honestly believe that every body who lives in the South is a racist? Try talking to the BLACKS who lived in the South at that time (as I have), and see if they were oh so content as you would like to believe... --I don't think any of us was content. We all worked from sun to sun just to plant and work the crops. I have a black friend who grew up down south, having to watch the local KKK'rs walk by her house -- in full regalia -- going to and from their meetings...and being made to smile and wave to them...I can tell you, SHE and her family were NOT content, but knew what they had to do to keep from being lynched and their house burned down... --I have heard stories like this but I have never had personal knowledge of such. I never saw a person in a KKK uniform. I've seen many on tv and Jerry Springer, but that kind of trash did not exist where I was raised. There's a reason they moved up North...because the South didn't provide them the opportunities in employment the North did, because of their race... --and the north treated them with respect? The South had farms The North had Manufacturing. It may help to remember that the North, after winning the Civil war did not free their slaves as they forced the South to. And Lincoln had no intentions of freeing the slaves until he needed an issue to keep France and Spain out of the war. You remember that part don't you? We worked together Black and White to plant and clear the crops since most of the able bodied men were still at war. -- When I say We, I mean kids, old men Women and the wounded who had returned from the war. I was between 2 and 9 while I was there and I worked as a man would. I chopped cotton, planted tobacco, picked peas, chopped cane, planted rice and any thing else that needed done. I kinda resent not having a childhood and having to work like that but its too late to worry about that now. I'm sure blacks were given equal opportunity to plant clear fields -- for someone else. How many blacks OWNED this property they worked on...? --every farm we worked was owned by a black or white family. the mix was more white than black but so was the population. The Black church was only slightly smaller than the White church. Each church had an adjacent grave yard, but the Black grave yard was larger than the White one. In retrospect, it seems that the Blacks were there longer than Whites were. The "road" we lived on was a long winding clay road with farms and houses on both sides of the road. In the early forty's the community determined that for a orderly method of planting and harvesting to occur with the least amount of moving equipment would be to start on one end of the road and work to the other. With the war on they tried to conserve the use of fuel. By planting the crops in this manner, they harvested the same way since the crops would come in by the stages they were planted. It mattered not whether the farm was owned by Blacks or Whites. When it came up in the rotation, it was done. Some of the poor farmers (Black and White) had tractors and equipment that needed repair. Made no difference. Whose ever tractor worked, is whose we used. How many blacks were allowed to take over important office and factory jobs, supervisory and managerial positions, when the 'able bodied men' (black men WEREN'T 'able bodied'?) were away at war? -- This question I can't respond to since; 1. I don't know why you say black men were not able bodied; The only man I knew who was not able bodied was the man who taught me to shoot a rifle. He lost both his legs above the knee in the war. He could shoot a hog between the eyes on a run, and hardly ever missed. I called him Mr. Baby, as was his want. He took me hunting ever day. He was my friend. 2. None of the folks (including whites) who lived in Claxton were capable of supervising or managing a factory;and 3. we had nothing but farming. Anybody on that road could manage a farm, however. Every farm had senior person. This person was usually the older or more experienced farmer, and most times the head of the
Re: [CTRL] Slavery - was Stampeding Bison
-Caveat Lector- nurev wrote: (Though I can understand the problem of those who (like Jefferson) inherited slaves and did not understand what to do about the situation). I don't, however, believe that Jesus would have called upon his disciples to take up the sword against their owners. That's exactly what he did. What is the chapter and verse on this? I don't remember anything like this at all. best wishes, Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slavery - was Stampeding Bison
-Caveat Lector- "Howard R. Davis III" wrote: -Caveat Lector- Hawk wrote: But slavery was an evil institution. That is merely your opinion, and it does not comport with the Bible. You are welcome to it, and you are certainly not alone in that opinion. But I base my criteria on "stronger stuff" than personal opinion. By the way, at one time I would have agreed with you. I was "compelled" to study slavery in order to support my position that it was evil, but my study resulted in forcing me to reject my initial beliefs concerning it. As you may have gathered, I am VERY libertarian in my political philosophy. As a libertarian, I would have to reject slavery, either an an owner or a slave. But as a Christian, I cannot condemn it. In his long post there is much which I am in total agreement with. However, the above is not my view. I believe that Hawk would be correct if he were only to use the old testiment as reference. No. He'd be wrong if he used the old testament as a reference. The OT is a celebration of freedom from slavery, and a proclamation that the Israelites would serve no earthly masters. This is quite revolutionary considering that all the established agrarian societies were based on slavery. The OT also had very strict rules pertaining to the ownership of servants ( slaves ). If a slave was physically damaged by a master, for example, the law set him free. This was a far cry from the treatment of slaves in other cultures at that time. The Jubilee set all slaves free on the 50th year. Also no one could be a slave for more than seven years even if they wanted to. However, I believe that Jesus set a higher standard when he said that we should do unto others as we would have them do unto us. I don't believe the ownership of slaves is compatable with that admonishment. But Paul, the real founder of Christianity, and knee bender to the Romans admonished the slaves of the empire to obey their masters. This set in motion the justification of slavery by Christians who profited from the labor and misery of others. (Though I can understand the problem of those who (like Jefferson) inherited slaves and did not understand what to do about the situation). I don't, however, believe that Jesus would have called upon his disciples to take up the sword against their owners. That's exactly what he did. Joshua2 best wishes, Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
