Re: [CTRL] Vatican speaks out against Holocaust
-Caveat Lector- Amelia wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > Well, J2, if the complaint is the beatification of Pius, then they > should say so instead of claiming that this Pope is hiding things. They are not saying this. I am saying this. They are historians who were allowed to take part in a task that the Church would prefer not to do at all but is being pressured to by Jews as well as others. The Vatican CAN NOT beatify Pius 12 unless they can produce a clean bill of health for him. I speculate that they hoped by inviting a panel of Jewish historians to take part in the whitewash, they would be able to pull it off by controlling the access to their documents. Just as the CIA controls which documents it allows out to the public. I'm sure that they expected the Jewish panel to be good little boys and girls and not complain. That was their second mistake. > Please keep in mind that JPII IS POLISH himself and see the link > below about how EVERY Polish Catholic Priest along with 3 million > other Poles were sent to Death Camps. See link below for info on > Poles sent to death camps. I am very aware of the history. Not 'every' priest was sent to the death camps. Some were collaborators. Most Poles were more than happy to help the Nazis rid them if the Zhids. Even while the Germans were the occupying enemy. The Poles were considered inferior to the Aryans and were destined for slavery. > > And yes, you do so know one Catholic that knows this. And I know > many others. You are special. You are a member of CTRL which indicates that you have a heightened sense of curiosity and distrust. This is healthy in my opinion, but most people don't. > We are talking about millions of people here and there > are some Jewish people also implicated in various things, too. It > is all very complex. It's not that complex. If you've read my stuff over the years, then you know that it's every group's minority elites who are responsible for most the shit. > And a Catholic is automatically excommunicated if they do certain > things. No one has to tell them and no formal declaration is > required unless they protest it. The point is Amelia, that if the leader of the Catholic world, and Europe in particular would have publicly excommunicated Hitler and the Nazi regimes in the Catholic countries, it might have stopped them. Not only did he not do that, but he was a supporter and admirer of Hitler. He was the top Church official in Germany before he became Pope. He hobnobbed with the Nazis. This is no secret. There are newspaper photos all over the place. > I have never checked specifically > but believe mass murder of millions might be listed above something > like, say, divorce. I do not, nor do you, know the details of who > did what and why and so do not care to speculate on who gave what > and did what. You wouldn't need to speculate. There are books written by eyewitnesses who worked in the Holy See and witnessed it all. Names of the carriers, the amounts, the dates etc. > I find a Polish Pope highly unlikely to be hiding > things to protect the Nazis. NOT to protect the Nazis. To protect the Church. > Maybe he has access to things that > exonerate Pius or explain some of his actions. But I think it is a > dreadful thing to accuse a Polish Pope of somehow being implicated > in or condoning the Holocaust. I don't know if he did that or not. No one is accusing the current Pope of that as far as I know, but he IS trying to make a saint out of Pius12. This means that he knows what Pius did and by beatifying him, is stating publicly that being a supporter of Hitler and what he did (not just to Jews) was not so bad really as to prevent his beatification. This is what makes it a public fight. The Catholic Church would be foolish to continue with this because there is ample evidence outside the Vatican INCLUDING living witnesses. > > But by your own rules of Jews only caring about other Jews, ditto > Gypsies, etc. then Catholics should not be helping the Jews at all > in any way. They are not helping the Jews. They are using the Jews as a stamp of approval. But it's not working out that way. > That, fortunately, is not how most people feel. I am > as outraged about the death of Jewish people and Gypsies as I am > about Catholics. > > So by your standards, if they wanna see the papers, they oughta be > nice to the Pope for why should he even care about the Jewish > people who died. Because he has valuable properties in Israel. And if he wants to keep them he is forced to work things out. That's why. Also, I'm sure he would be unhappy if the Mossad released what it has on the Catholic Church. J2 > I think he does, however, did not expect to be > attacked. > ~Amelia~ > > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 9:22 PM > Subject: BURNING QUESTIONS, a documentary about an American woman > retracingher Polish Catholic father's s > > http://hometown.aol.com/polishfilm/burningquestions.html > Amelia wrote: > > > > -Caveat Le
Re: [CTRL] Vatican speaks out against Holocaust panel's'slanderouscampaign'
-Caveat Lector- "Damian B. Cooper" wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > At 11:13 PM 8/7/01 -0400, "Nurev Ind." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > >Pius was a Nazi and an admirer of Hitler. He helped finance the party > >early on. > > Four fifths of the New York Times editorialists and ninety-seven percent > of the Hollywood establishment were admirers of Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin. > > So, what's your point? > > DBC My point is that 93.4857% of you statistics are bullshit, and that The Times and Hollywood are not moral representatives of the religion of love. Is that a good enough point for you? J2 http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Vatican speaks out against Holocaust
-Caveat Lector- Well, J2, if the complaint is the beatification of Pius, then they should say so instead of claiming that this Pope is hiding things. Please keep in mind that JPII IS POLISH himself and see the link below about how EVERY Polish Catholic Priest along with 3 million other Poles were sent to Death Camps. See link below for info on Poles sent to death camps. And yes, you do so know one Catholic that knows this. And I know many others. We are talking about millions of people here and there are some Jewish people also implicated in various things, too. It is all very complex. And a Catholic is automatically excommunicated if they do certain things. No one has to tell them and no formal declaration is required unless they protest it. I have never checked specifically but believe mass murder of millions might be listed above something like, say, divorce. I do not, nor do you, know the details of who did what and why and so do not care to speculate on who gave what and did what. I find a Polish Pope highly unlikely to be hiding things to protect the Nazis. Maybe he has access to things that exonerate Pius or explain some of his actions. But I think it is a dreadful thing to accuse a Polish Pope of somehow being implicated in or condoning the Holocaust. But by your own rules of Jews only caring about other Jews, ditto Gypsies, etc. then Catholics should not be helping the Jews at all in any way. That, fortunately, is not how most people feel. I am as outraged about the death of Jewish people and Gypsies as I am about Catholics. So by your standards, if they wanna see the papers, they oughta be nice to the Pope for why should he even care about the Jewish people who died. I think he does, however, did not expect to be attacked. ~Amelia~ Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 9:22 PM Subject: BURNING QUESTIONS, a documentary about an American woman retracingher Polish Catholic father's s http://hometown.aol.com/polishfilm/burningquestions.html Amelia wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > No, J2, they were NOT all Poles and Slavs. But then no one counts > except the Jews who were killed, at least not for much to some. > And that may be YOUR 'real' question but it does not address what > is being done right NOW concerning this DEMAND for records and the > CURRENT smear campaign. Are you stating that this is justified as > some sort of vengeance? Then why was this undertaken with the EVIL > Vatican in the first place? > > I have read everything that you have stated many times before but > not even YOUR stating it makes me 'know' it. Amelia, I can prove everything I stated. But I don't want to deal with this right now because there are more important things happening. > I do think there is > some truth in what you say happened but as for your wild > accusations that Hitler was a Catholic, etc. that is your opinion > only and really not possible. He may have been reared a Catholic > but that does not mean me was one until his death for there are > conditions involved which you choose to ignore. He often bragged about his Catholic upbringing and how much it influenced his greatness. > I believe mass > killings would be sufficient to get one excommunicated. But he WASN'T excommunicated was he? Ever. How come? > That means > one is no longer a Catholic, doesn't it? I also do not think Hitler > was under the control of the Pope at the time, either. Hitler was never under the control of the Pope. No one said he was. > Are you > suggesting that he was? Or that the Pope had powers grater than all > the Allied forces? The Pope contributed Vatican moneys to Hitler and the Nazi Party. These are the records the Vatican doesn't want anyone to see. Among others. > That he could have some how stopped it all but > refused because he was 'in on it' and approved? As for your > 'revenge' philosophy, remember not all religions are centered > around that principle. It is well known that the Vatican was > involved in various people escaping Germany after WWII. What is to > hide? It is NOT well known. I don't know any Catholics who are aware of it. > Is this information the REAL reason for the Jewish > participation in this project? To find out any details on what may > have been done to any Jews and Jews only? I don't know. But even if that's true, so what? > Your comments demonstrate perfectly the one-sided perception of the > problem. It was to have been a JOINT effort directed at the crimes > committed against BOTH Catholics and Jews and others. Nothing was > being 'hidden' and I think, unlike you, that the deaths of > Catholics and many others were just as much a crime as the deaths > of Jews. Of course it is. No one says differently. Jews are interested in the Jewish part of this history. Gypsies are interested in the Gypsy part of this history. Serbs are interested in the Serbian parts of this history. This doesn't mean that the rest don't count. > The Vatican does not have to share anythi
Re: [CTRL] Vatican speaks out against Holocaust panel's'slanderouscampaign'
-Caveat Lector- Amelia wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > No, J2, they were NOT all Poles and Slavs. But then no one counts > except the Jews who were killed, at least not for much to some. > And that may be YOUR 'real' question but it does not address what > is being done right NOW concerning this DEMAND for records and the > CURRENT smear campaign. Are you stating that this is justified as > some sort of vengeance? Then why was this undertaken with the EVIL > Vatican in the first place? > > I have read everything that you have stated many times before but > not even YOUR stating it makes me 'know' it. Amelia, I can prove everything I stated. But I don't want to deal with this right now because there are more important things happening. > I do think there is > some truth in what you say happened but as for your wild > accusations that Hitler was a Catholic, etc. that is your opinion > only and really not possible. He may have been reared a Catholic > but that does not mean me was one until his death for there are > conditions involved which you choose to ignore. He often bragged about his Catholic upbringing and how much it influenced his greatness. > I believe mass > killings would be sufficient to get one excommunicated. But he WASN'T excommunicated was he? Ever. How come? > That means > one is no longer a Catholic, doesn't it? I also do not think Hitler > was under the control of the Pope at the time, either. Hitler was never under the control of the Pope. No one said he was. > Are you > suggesting that he was? Or that the Pope had powers grater than all > the Allied forces? The Pope contributed Vatican moneys to Hitler and the Nazi Party. These are the records the Vatican doesn't want anyone to see. Among others. > That he could have some how stopped it all but > refused because he was 'in on it' and approved? As for your > 'revenge' philosophy, remember not all religions are centered > around that principle. It is well known that the Vatican was > involved in various people escaping Germany after WWII. What is to > hide? It is NOT well known. I don't know any Catholics who are aware of it. > Is this information the REAL reason for the Jewish > participation in this project? To find out any details on what may > have been done to any Jews and Jews only? I don't know. But even if that's true, so what? > Your comments demonstrate perfectly the one-sided perception of the > problem. It was to have been a JOINT effort directed at the crimes > committed against BOTH Catholics and Jews and others. Nothing was > being 'hidden' and I think, unlike you, that the deaths of > Catholics and many others were just as much a crime as the deaths > of Jews. Of course it is. No one says differently. Jews are interested in the Jewish part of this history. Gypsies are interested in the Gypsy part of this history. Serbs are interested in the Serbian parts of this history. This doesn't mean that the rest don't count. > The Vatican does not have to share anything and I > certainly hope that they will not until all life lost in the > Holocaust is shown equal respect. It doesn't matter what excuse you make for them not releasing the letters. They'll never do it. They can't. > It is the current Pope and not > Pius under attack. One Pope is as good as another to blame, eh? > ~Amelia~ HEY BABY. THIS POPE WANTS TO MAKE A SAINT OUT OF PIUS XII THE NAZI POPE. Do you think that anyone who suffered at the hands of the Nazis is going to let the Vatican get away with beatifying Pius12? What a stupid thing to do. His actions are still in the living memory of millions of people. There are documentary records all over the place. There are living witnesses who worked in the Vatican at the time and have gone public. This wouldn't be so important if the Vatican was just trying to cover up their crimes. BUT THEY WANT TO MAKE A SAINT OUT OF HIM. This is one of the dumbest moves they ever made. They should have waited for a few more hundred years like they did for Joan of Arc. J2 > > - Original Message - > From: "Nurev Ind." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:13 PM > Subject: Re: [CTRL] Vatican speaks out against Holocaust panel's > 'slanderouscampaign' > > -Caveat Lector- > > No they didn't count because they were slavs and Poles. But Germany > was at least half Catholic, and Austria was all Catholic. And > Hitler > was also Catholic. > > Is the Pope Catholic??? > > > Those demanding so much respect for their own > > religion might start by showing some for the religion of others. > >
Re: [CTRL] Vatican speaks out against Holocaust panel's 'slanderouscampaign'
-Caveat Lector- No, J2, they were NOT all Poles and Slavs. But then no one counts except the Jews who were killed, at least not for much to some. And that may be YOUR 'real' question but it does not address what is being done right NOW concerning this DEMAND for records and the CURRENT smear campaign. Are you stating that this is justified as some sort of vengeance? Then why was this undertaken with the EVIL Vatican in the first place? I have read everything that you have stated many times before but not even YOUR stating it makes me 'know' it. I do think there is some truth in what you say happened but as for your wild accusations that Hitler was a Catholic, etc. that is your opinion only and really not possible. He may have been reared a Catholic but that does not mean me was one until his death for there are conditions involved which you choose to ignore. I believe mass killings would be sufficient to get one excommunicated. That means one is no longer a Catholic, doesn't it? I also do not think Hitler was under the control of the Pope at the time, either. Are you suggesting that he was? Or that the Pope had powers grater than all the Allied forces? That he could have some how stopped it all but refused because he was 'in on it' and approved? As for your 'revenge' philosophy, remember not all religions are centered around that principle. It is well known that the Vatican was involved in various people escaping Germany after WWII. What is to hide? Is this information the REAL reason for the Jewish participation in this project? To find out any details on what may have been done to any Jews and Jews only? Your comments demonstrate perfectly the one-sided perception of the problem. It was to have been a JOINT effort directed at the crimes committed against BOTH Catholics and Jews and others. Nothing was being 'hidden' and I think, unlike you, that the deaths of Catholics and many others were just as much a crime as the deaths of Jews. The Vatican does not have to share anything and I certainly hope that they will not until all life lost in the Holocaust is shown equal respect. It is the current Pope and not Pius under attack. One Pope is as good as another to blame, eh? ~Amelia~ - Original Message - From: "Nurev Ind." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Vatican speaks out against Holocaust panel's 'slanderouscampaign' -Caveat Lector- No they didn't count because they were slavs and Poles. But Germany was at least half Catholic, and Austria was all Catholic. And Hitler was also Catholic. Is the Pope Catholic??? > Those demanding so much respect for their own > religion might start by showing some for the religion of others. Pius was a Nazi and an admirer of Hitler. He helped finance the party early on. He also helped set up the Ustasha regime in Catholic Croatia where a high ranking Bishop ran the death camps and murdered a million Serbs, tens of thousands of Jews, mand thousands of Gypsies. The ' polite ' question is whether Pius 12 " did enough " to save the Jews in Christian Europe." The real thing the Vatican is hiding is its complcitiy in the Holocaust, and it's direct action in helping known Nazi war criminals escape justice through the Rat Line. Just thought you'd like to know. http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Vatican speaks out against Holocaust panel's 'slanderouscampaign'
-Caveat Lector- At 11:13 PM 8/7/01 -0400, "Nurev Ind." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Pius was a Nazi and an admirer of Hitler. He helped finance the party >early on. Four fifths of the New York Times editorialists and ninety-seven percent of the Hollywood establishment were admirers of Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin. So, what's your point? DBC http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Vatican speaks out against Holocaust panel's 'slanderous campaign'
-Caveat Lector- At 05:03 PM 8/7/01 -0500, Amelia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >-Caveat Lector- > >Well, the Vatican had better be careful or they will find >themselves listed by ADL as a Hate Group if they are not already. Amelia: News bulletin: the entire premise of the New Testament is that the people of the Old Testament blew it. The New Testament, of course, is the doctrine of Christianity and the Catholic Church. In the New Testament, Jesus Christ compares Pharisees, i.e. Jewish bigwigs, to "whitened sepulchers". This is not a charitable appraisal. The parable of the Good Samaritan is a very pointed homily which says, in so many words, "even a low-brow person like a Samaritan would be more inclined to help a crime victim than the Jews". The New Testament is very much an indictment and condemnation of the Jewish establishment of the time. Throughout the history of Christianity, Jews have been identified as "the killers of Christ". In the contemporary analysis of the ADL, Christianity would unquestionably be inherently and thoroughly "anti-Semitic'. The ADL, having a well developed sense of political survival simply avoids making such inflammatory analyses in public. DBC http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Vatican speaks out against Holocaust panel's 'slanderouscampaign'
-Caveat Lector- Amelia wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > Well, the Vatican had better be careful or they will find > themselves listed by ADL as a Hate Group if they are not already. > I seem to recall a large number of Catholics being sent to the same > fate the as Jews in this Holocaust but they just do not seem to > count at all. No they didn't count because they were slavs and Poles. But Germany was at least half Catholic, and Austria was all Catholic. And Hitler was also Catholic. Is the Pope Catholic??? > Those demanding so much respect for their own > religion might start by showing some for the religion of others. Pius was a Nazi and an admirer of Hitler. He helped finance the party early on. He also helped set up the Ustasha regime in Catholic Croatia where a high ranking Bishop ran the death camps and murdered a million Serbs, tens of thousands of Jews, mand thousands of Gypsies. The ' polite ' question is whether Pius 12 " did enough " to save the Jews in Christian Europe." The real thing the Vatican is hiding is its complcitiy in the Holocaust, and it's direct action in helping known Nazi war criminals escape justice through the Rat Line. Just thought you'd like to know. > > I hope they do not make one of those disgusting ads like they did > on the dragging death in Texas and show it every single day they > way they still do that one. It is STILL aired DAILY. Maybe they > will have one featuring the Pope as the perpetrator of Hate Crimes > for his failure to do as they say. After all, Hate Crimes can only > be committed against Blacks and Jews and Homosexuals. No one else > seems to be important enough to count in these matters. JPII Better > hop, hop to it if he knows what is good for him, hadn't he? > ~Amelia~ > > Vatican speaks out against Holocaust panel's 'slanderous campaign' They don't have to speak out to defend their position. All they have to do is open the archives like they said they would. J2 > > By VICTOR L. SIMPSON, Associated Press > > VATICAN CITY > (August 7, 2001 10:12 a.m. EDT ) - Accusing Jewish historians on a > special Holocaust commission of mounting a "slanderous campaign" > against the Catholic church, the Vatican said the group's "clearly > incorrect behavior" insults the church's integrity. > > The accusation Tuesday was part of the Vatican's response to the > recent announcement that a panel of Jewish and Catholic historians > investigating the Vatican's actions during the Holocaust had > suspended its work because the Vatican has not released all of its > World War II-era archives. > > The Vatican's response was written by the Rev. Peter Gumpel, a > German Jesuit gathering documents to support the possible > beatification of Pope Pius XII, the World War II pope. > > In it, he defended Pius' action, saying material made available to > the historians showed that Pius "made every possible effort to save > as many lives as possible, without any distinction." > > The historians, who were appointed by the Vatican and a Jewish > group to examine Pius' actions, released a preliminary report in > October. They described a pope bent on fruitless diplomacy as > reports of atrocities poured into the Vatican. > > The historians said at the time that questions still needed to be > answered before they could issue a final report. They expressed > hope that the Vatican would open up the archives of the Holy See's > correspondences to fill in the gaps in the 12 volumes of wartime > documents provided by the Vatican. > > Gumpel said he had met with the group and answered some of their > questions and offered to answer the rest at another session, but > that this was ignored. > > It was therefore disconcerting, he said, that in the following > months "some Jewish members in the group had systematically > affirmed that they never received answers to their questions." > > He also said it was "false" that the Vatican does not intend to > open up its archives, saying this will be done as soon as they are > ready. > > Gumpel said several though not all the Jewish members of the > commission had "publicly spread the suspicion" that the Holy See > was trying to hide documents "that in their judgment could be > compromising." > > He did not give their names. > > Gumpel said the panel's work had failed as a result of > "irresponsible" actions by some of its members. > Copyright © 2001 Interest!ALERT All rights reserved. > Copyright © 1996-2000 Nando Interest!ALERT Inc. > Legal Notices and Terms of Use http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement
[CTRL] Vatican speaks out against Holocaust panel's 'slanderous campaign'
-Caveat Lector- Well, the Vatican had better be careful or they will find themselves listed by ADL as a Hate Group if they are not already. I seem to recall a large number of Catholics being sent to the same fate the as Jews in this Holocaust but they just do not seem to count at all. Those demanding so much respect for their own religion might start by showing some for the religion of others. I hope they do not make one of those disgusting ads like they did on the dragging death in Texas and show it every single day they way they still do that one. It is STILL aired DAILY. Maybe they will have one featuring the Pope as the perpetrator of Hate Crimes for his failure to do as they say. After all, Hate Crimes can only be committed against Blacks and Jews and Homosexuals. No one else seems to be important enough to count in these matters. JPII Better hop, hop to it if he knows what is good for him, hadn't he? ~Amelia~ Vatican speaks out against Holocaust panel's 'slanderous campaign' By VICTOR L. SIMPSON, Associated Press VATICAN CITY (August 7, 2001 10:12 a.m. EDT ) - Accusing Jewish historians on a special Holocaust commission of mounting a "slanderous campaign" against the Catholic church, the Vatican said the group's "clearly incorrect behavior" insults the church's integrity. The accusation Tuesday was part of the Vatican's response to the recent announcement that a panel of Jewish and Catholic historians investigating the Vatican's actions during the Holocaust had suspended its work because the Vatican has not released all of its World War II-era archives. The Vatican's response was written by the Rev. Peter Gumpel, a German Jesuit gathering documents to support the possible beatification of Pope Pius XII, the World War II pope. In it, he defended Pius' action, saying material made available to the historians showed that Pius "made every possible effort to save as many lives as possible, without any distinction." The historians, who were appointed by the Vatican and a Jewish group to examine Pius' actions, released a preliminary report in October. They described a pope bent on fruitless diplomacy as reports of atrocities poured into the Vatican. The historians said at the time that questions still needed to be answered before they could issue a final report. They expressed hope that the Vatican would open up the archives of the Holy See's correspondences to fill in the gaps in the 12 volumes of wartime documents provided by the Vatican. Gumpel said he had met with the group and answered some of their questions and offered to answer the rest at another session, but that this was ignored. It was therefore disconcerting, he said, that in the following months "some Jewish members in the group had systematically affirmed that they never received answers to their questions." He also said it was "false" that the Vatican does not intend to open up its archives, saying this will be done as soon as they are ready. Gumpel said several though not all the Jewish members of the commission had "publicly spread the suspicion" that the Holy See was trying to hide documents "that in their judgment could be compromising." He did not give their names. Gumpel said the panel's work had failed as a result of "irresponsible" actions by some of its members. Copyright © 2001 Interest!ALERT All rights reserved. Copyright © 1996-2000 Nando Interest!ALERT Inc. Legal Notices and Terms of Use http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
