Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[Jeff Hearon]

 -Caveat Lector-

System:   DC and AC are completely different systems.AC is not and
improvement, it is in fact a radical departure.This is one of the reason
why Tesla received such resistance. And let's be honest,  Tesla did not
have a monopoly on arrogance.

In every degree,  great men of science stand on the shoulders of other great
men who proceed before them.In Tesla's case, it was Faraday's work which
proved that in showing that a magnet could induce electricity, Tesla's
contribution to the scheme was that he induced electricity by a rotating
magnetic field.

There is but a third way to distribute electircity:  reciporical current.

About the only thing that can be conljectured by the fact that we are AC
based is that power is regionally monoplised, thus energy is monetized
according to the distance it takes to distribute it.This created a
monopoly. Edison along with Westinghouse, and JP Morgan where among the
first electrical energy monoplist.

Your, Howard, erroneous conjecture about there would no atomic energy smacks
a foul because saying so would be like saying there would be no advance in
energy creation and distribution. There are many advances in energy
distribution and creation, however due to the monoplist nature of the energy
business, most of theses innovations are indeed suppressed.

Your thoughts on Edsion are accurate in so far as his acheivements.
Edison was a consummmate tickerer, with little formal scienticfic training,
however as expressed by many biographers, he had a knack for identifying
great and talented minds. He just could not be outshown.
Intellectual hubris being a mighty thing.

Jeffrey C Hearon
Founder & CEO
SCIO-LTD
http://www.scio-ltd.net
http://www.scio-ltd.com
http://www.scio-ltd.org
+1.917.553.7217
+1.800.724.6644  PIN 221777

- Original Message -
From: Howard R. Davis III <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 2:39 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference


> -Caveat Lector-
>
>In inventing there is such a thing as a basic patent. That is, a
> patent which describes an invention which is basic and all others are
> improvements. When I said the following in reference to Edison: "He did,
> however, invent the light bulb and the basic system which provided
> electricity to this country (with the exception of Tesla's contribution
> of AC generator/motor)", I was referring to the basic system. (And, you
> will note that I mentioned Tesla's AC contribution). How that basic
> system is defined is where we differ. Previous to Edison's invention of
> the light bulb and the basic system to power it, there was no electricity
> being produced and delivered to homes and businesses anywhere in the
> world. To make his electric bulb practical for general use, Edison had
> to develop generators of greater capacity than had previously been
> available, wiring systems for transporting the electricity, metering
> systems, fuses for protection, receptacles, home wiring systems, etc.
> This was not a trivial undertaking. Long before Tesla introduced his AC
> system, Edison had wired up many cities in this country and in Europe
> (in fact, I believe Tesla worked in Europe for one of Edison's
> associates before he came to the US).
> It was this system that I refer to when I say that Edison invented the
> basic system which we now use. Regardless of whether or not Tesla or
> anyone else would have invented the AC generator/motor, this system
> would have continued and been improved even without AC. AC proved
> to be
> an improvement and was adopted for that reason. I never said otherwise.
> Edison tried unsuccessfully to keep the system DC based, but lost. As I
> have stated previously, the adoption of AC as standard was not without
> negative consequences. If DC had remained as the standard we would
> have
> smaller local power plants, no grid, no Atomic power plants, and we
> would not be as worried about Y2K. The relative size of cities would be
> different: our largest cities would be near hydro-electric power plants,
> etc. The cost of electricity, however, might be higher because of the
> lack of long distance efficiency in transporting it. However, it might
> be that there would be more competition and thus more efficiencies.
> Also, solar power and battery storage would be more practical because
> one would not need to change the DC produced through solar into AC
> for
> use (there is a loss in doing this). In fact, solar and wind would
> probably have been developed to a far greater extent for use in rural
areas.
>
> Howard Davis
>
>
>
>
> Jeff Hearon wrote:
> >
> >  -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > Agai

Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[E Mael]

 -Caveat Lector-

[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
>I have no problem. You are the one who has cast aspirations on Thomas
>Edison, a great benefactor of humanity, and have failed to provide the
>means for others on this list to verify that your charges have merit. It
>is you who have the problem. I am sure that you have done your
>reputation on this list no great service.
>
>Howard Davis


here's a clue; read nearly anything on tesla and you will get a picture of
what i am referring to. my reputation? tell that to someone who cares. my
reputation fares fine in my relationships. what you think of me matters
not in the least, irregardless of whether you know that fact or not. you
are very interesting to me, but i don't have the time now

chris

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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

E Mael wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
> >The only thing I can understand out of the gibberish above is that
you
> >expect me and the others on this list to accept your charges against
> >Edison without any verification and if we desire to verify these
charges
> >we are expected to search through the millions of books and
writings
> >available to find the source and verify its believability. Would not
> >someone who had a source for such charges produced it?
> >
> >Howard Davis
>
> anyone with a modicum of whatever, would know how to access
exactly that
> data. e-mail me privately and so i can tell you exactly where to go. is
> that gibberish enough for you. quit bothering me. i have forgotten
more
> than you will ever know and i have better things to do with my time
than
> deal with your problem.
>
> remember, think of me.
>
> smilin'
>
> chris

I have no problem. You are the one who has cast aspirations on Thomas
Edison, a great benefactor of humanity, and have failed to provide the
means for others on this list to verify that your charges have merit. It
is you who have the problem. I am sure that you have done your
reputation on this list no great service.

Howard Davis

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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

   In inventing there is such a thing as a basic patent. That is, a
patent which describes an invention which is basic and all others are
improvements. When I said the following in reference to Edison: "He did,
however, invent the light bulb and the basic system which provided
electricity to this country (with the exception of Tesla's contribution
of AC generator/motor)", I was referring to the basic system. (And, you
will note that I mentioned Tesla's AC contribution). How that basic
system is defined is where we differ. Previous to Edison's invention of
the light bulb and the basic system to power it, there was no electricity
being produced and delivered to homes and businesses anywhere in the
world. To make his electric bulb practical for general use, Edison had
to develop generators of greater capacity than had previously been
available, wiring systems for transporting the electricity, metering
systems, fuses for protection, receptacles, home wiring systems, etc.
This was not a trivial undertaking. Long before Tesla introduced his AC
system, Edison had wired up many cities in this country and in Europe
(in fact, I believe Tesla worked in Europe for one of Edison's
associates before he came to the US).
It was this system that I refer to when I say that Edison invented the
basic system which we now use. Regardless of whether or not Tesla or
anyone else would have invented the AC generator/motor, this system
would have continued and been improved even without AC. AC proved
to be
an improvement and was adopted for that reason. I never said otherwise.
Edison tried unsuccessfully to keep the system DC based, but lost. As I
have stated previously, the adoption of AC as standard was not without
negative consequences. If DC had remained as the standard we would
have
smaller local power plants, no grid, no Atomic power plants, and we
would not be as worried about Y2K. The relative size of cities would be
different: our largest cities would be near hydro-electric power plants,
etc. The cost of electricity, however, might be higher because of the
lack of long distance efficiency in transporting it. However, it might
be that there would be more competition and thus more efficiencies.
Also, solar power and battery storage would be more practical because
one would not need to change the DC produced through solar into AC
for
use (there is a loss in doing this). In fact, solar and wind would
probably have been developed to a far greater extent for use in rural areas.

Howard Davis




Jeff Hearon wrote:
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Again, I clear this up hopefully for the last time. Tesla was totally
> responsible for the polyphase AC dynamo, which is the basis for our
> eletrical power grid system.Edsion was a DC proponent, (why in
the hell
> do you think he had such trouble with various filaments for the
incandescent
> light bulb, Dah!!! DC will burn it out twice as fast.),
>
> GE was started using infringed technology from
Tesla/Weshinghouse.
> Read your history.He was not as Howard Davis would have you
believe
> responsible for the basic system which provided electricity to this
country,
> there were at least six other prominant men engaged in this
endeavor,
> including but not limited to Eli Houston, George Westinghouse.
>
snip
> > >
> >
> > Thomas Edison was not a homosexual. He did, however, invent the
light
> > bulb and the basic system which provided electricity to this
country
> > (with the exception of Tesla's contribution of AC generator/motor),
the
> > phonograph, many improvements in telegraphy and telephones,
many
> > improvements in motion pictures, and many lesser inventions
which have
> > benefited us all (most of the lesser inventions being more useful
than
> > most other inventors major accomplishments).
> >
> > Howard Davis

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[E Mael]

 -Caveat Lector-

[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
>That's a reference? You make accusations against a man of far greater
>value to society than yourself and this is the kind of proof you offer?
>
>Howard Davis


i thought that nail was in but look here; nature has made a better idiot.
the information is there, if you had any intention of checking my sources
you would find it. since you have no intention of checking anyway; don't
bother me that inanity you have become so fond of.

do me a favor and pop yourself and think of me while you do it.

chris (damn, did i see him coming or what)shhhsh

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

nessie wrote:
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> >He did, however, invent
>
> They way I heard it he hired a staff, they did the inventing, and he took
> the credit. If so, he invented the modern research paradigm, a monumental
> feat in and of itself.
>

People who think that Edison hired a bunch of people and then sat back
and got all the credit haven't dealt with inventors. I have known dozens
and have invented things myself. Most inventors have dozens of projects
which they need help in creating. They come up with the basic idea, but
realize that there are technical problems which need to be solved. In
Edison's case, there were many experiments that needed to be done. Doing
those experiments is not inventing, deciding what experiments need to be
done is the crucial part of inventing. Edison is known to have done
that. Certainly if you go to the story of how he invented the phonograph
you would understand better that he was the sole inventor. Yes, he did
bring a sketch to Bachelor and asked him to make it. And Baetchlor
probably made some refinements based upon what Edison was trying to do.
But it was purely Edison'ss idea and even he was surprised when it
worked the first time. No doubt, that there were some claims on his
patents that should have been attributed to others. However, I don't
think that Edison was humble enough to work on others inventions. And
that is what you and others are suggesting. Inventors don't work for
money or publicity as most of you seem to think. They are useful, but
inventors see problems and want to find solutions to them. Edison was an
inventor. You can read his history and see that there were many
inventions that he developed long before he hired helpers. He saw
problems and he tried to solve them. Many of those solutions are still
benefittingg us today.

Howard Davis

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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

E Mael wrote
>
> that aint the half of it, i read a couple of accounts a few years back
> that are accounts of his being a thief and a scammer who cheated more than
> only tesla out of their rightful dues for the sake of a couple of dollars.
> he screwed tesla well and a lot of other inventors at the time. he used
> his money like a club and a lot of people suffered because of him. you
> want references? read a book.
>
That's a reference? You make accusations against a man of far greater
value to society than yourself and this is the kind of proof you offer?

Howard Davis

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[Jeff Hearon]

 -Caveat Lector-

Again, I clear this up hopefully for the last time. Tesla was totally
responsible for the polyphase AC dynamo, which is the basis for our
eletrical power grid system.Edsion was a DC proponent, (why in the hell
do you think he had such trouble with various filaments for the incadescent
light bulb, Dah!!! DC will burn it out twice as fast.),

GE was started using infringed technology from Tesla/Weshinghouse.
Read your history.He was not as Howard Davis would have you believe
responsible for the basic system which provided electricity to this country,
there were at least six other prominant men engaged in this endeavor,
including but not limited to Eli Houston, George Westinghouse.



Jeffrey C Hearon
Founder & CEO
SCIO-LTD
http://www.scio-ltd.net
http://www.scio-ltd.com
http://www.scio-ltd.org
+1.917.553.7217
+1.888.229.6788

- Original Message -
From: Howard R. Davis III <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 1:54 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Colleen Jones wrote:
> >
> >  -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > I had never ead that Thomas Edison electrocuted a dog in the electric
> > chair.
> >
> > This would make him about the most vicious and cruel - no wonder - well,
> > from now on I will no longer defend that BASTARD when they say he was a
> > homosexual.
> >
> > Colleen
> >
>
> Thomas Edison was not a homosexual. He did, however, invent the light
> bulb and the basic system which provided electricity to this country
> (with the exception of Tesla's contribution of AC generator/motor), the
> phonograph, many improvements in telegraphy and telephones, many
> improvements in motion pictures, and many lesser inventions which have
> benefited us all (most of the lesser inventions being more useful than
> most other inventors major accomplishments).
>
> Howard Davis
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
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>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> 
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>
> Om
>

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==
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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[nessie]

 -Caveat Lector-

>Thomas Edison was not a homosexual.

And if he was, so what?

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==
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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[nessie]

 -Caveat Lector-

>He did, however, invent

They way I heard it he hired a staff, they did the inventing, and he took
the credit. If so, he invented the modern research paradigm, a monumental
feat in and of itself.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[nessie]

 -Caveat Lector-

>
> Little Nicky Tesla was born in Smijlan, Croatia way back in 1856.
>
>Lucky for him.   It meant he wasn't born to be ethnically cleansed from
>his home town by Croatian fascist paramilitaries.
>
> Life IS a crapshoot, is it not? Get born in one year,  you live long and
>prosper.  Get born  in another and  die in a camp.  Then there's place.
>Get born one place , you die getting bombed from the air.  But get born
>in another place and you die getting bombed from a truck. Either way,
>it's terrorism.
>
>These lines on a map are a curse. Damn nationalism. It's a butcher of
>babies.  When  will we learn to leave it behind?

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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[Colleen Jones]

 -Caveat Lector-

Hi Emael:  how you been.  From the time I was in school we were taught
that the Wizard of Menlo Prk was a near perfect man; well, electrocuting
a dog - how sadistic can one get.

The only stuff I had on Edison was good stuff, where he allegedly fired
Tesla and ridiculed his electric chair.   When I check this out, it ws
back in 1987when I got into the weather modification stuff, and was
told it was classified since 1965in error, I blamed Tesla for the
programartificial lightning, have documented evidence of man made
earthquakes which they could not control and backed off, tornados now no
longer an act of Godthe insurance companies have almost gone broke
paying for some of this stuff.

If Edison electrocuted a dog in his electric chair, that is about the
lowest, most despicable thing anyone could do.  I remember when they
were murdering pit bulls just because they werre given a bad name by the
press.

Its a wonder the Humane Society did not step inby the way, cattle
mutilations, etc., and somehow this is connected I think to melatonin
projects, etc., some secret...they use cattle pineal glands...and some
of these people - well this stuff is awful.   Even the mad cow disease;
the pineal glands would be worth more than the beef.something wrong
here.   This is an interesting thing, but I have a lot of work to do
here on that.

Goodbye Emael..thanks for the information.  I can hardly believe
that; however, to read books on Edison's work or the work of Teslamy
god, Ted Beardon would have best sellers if he wrote the movies where
people are being blown over the rainbow with Tesla's work..but he
gets very technical as a nuclear engineer.   At least, the net is
getting this stuff out.

Maxwell, my Pit Bulll.in Columbus they executed a Pit Bull named
Luke, that looked just like my Maxwellhe had been used by drug
pushers, etc., and when they got caught - they had also trained him for
a pit I guess - but there was nothing I could do to save Luke and they
executed her or him before I could get help.  These dogs are the nicest
dogs in the world.

Colleen

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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[E Mael]

 -Caveat Lector-

[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
>I had never ead that Thomas Edison electrocuted a dog in the electric
>chair.
>
>This would make him about the most vicious and cruel - no wonder - well,
>from now on I will no longer defend that BASTARD when they say he was a
>homosexual.
>
>Colleen


that aint the half of it, i read a couple of accounts a few years back
that are accounts of his being a thief and a scammer who cheated more than
only tesla out of their rightful dues for the sake of a couple of dollars.
he screwed tesla well and a lot of other inventors at the time. he used
his money like a club and a lot of people suffered because of him. you
want references? read a book.

edison was a fine capitalist
in its most sinister tradition

chris (still smilin' y'all)

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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

Colleen Jones wrote:
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> I had never ead that Thomas Edison electrocuted a dog in the electric
> chair.
>
> This would make him about the most vicious and cruel - no wonder - well,
> from now on I will no longer defend that BASTARD when they say he was a
> homosexual.
>
> Colleen
>

Thomas Edison was not a homosexual. He did, however, invent the light
bulb and the basic system which provided electricity to this country
(with the exception of Tesla's contribution of AC generator/motor), the
phonograph, many improvements in telegraphy and telephones, many
improvements in motion pictures, and many lesser inventions which have
benefited us all (most of the lesser inventions being more useful than
most other inventors major accomplishments).

Howard Davis

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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[Colleen Jones]

 -Caveat Lector-

I had never ead that Thomas Edison electrocuted a dog in the electric
chair.

This would make him about the most vicious and cruel - no wonder - well,
from now on I will no longer defend that BASTARD when they say he was a
homosexual.

Colleen

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
snip
>
> But Edison had too much money invested in his
> DC system, so Tommy did his best to discredit
> Tesla around every turn. Edison constantly
> tried to show that AC electricity was far
> more dangerous than his DC power. Tesla
> counteracted by staging his own marketing
> campaign. At the 1893 World Exposition in
> Chicago (attended by 21 million people),
> he demonstrated how safe AC electricity was
> by passing high frequency AC power through
> his body to power light bulbs. He then was
> able to shoot large lightning bolts from
> his Tesla coils to the crowd without harm.
> Nice trick!
>
Yes, and not exactly honest. He was using high frequency, low amperage.
Not exactly what you would find in a home.


> 
>
> Here's a task for you to try:
>
> Go check your encyclopedia to find the answers to the following questions: (answers 
>are given in
> parentheses)
>
> 1) Who invented the radio? (Marconi)
>
> 2) Who discovered X-rays? (Roentgen)
>
> 3) Who invented the vacuum tube amplifier? (de Forest)
>
> In fact, while you're at it, check to see who discovered the fluorescent bulb, neon 
>lights,
> speedometer, the automobile ignition system, and the basics behind radar, electron 
>microscope, and
> the microwave oven.
> Chances are that you will see little mention of a guy named Nikola Tesla, the most 
>famous scientist
> in the world at the turn of the century.
> In fact, few people today have ever heard of the guy. Good old Tommy Edison made 
>sure of that.

*
Tesla worked in all these areas, it is true. However, he never developed
a commercial fluorescent bulb. Money for this was invested by John Jacob
Astor, but instead of using it for that purpose Tesla built his lab in
Colorado Springs. He did design a speedometer, but I believe that it
operated differently than those we now use. The ignition system? That
was around before him. What was it that differed from those previously
available? Electron microscope and microwave oven? He had patents on
these? I never heard of them. Have you seen them?

>
> After all, Tesla was considered an eccentric who talked of death rays that could 
>destroy 10,000
> airplanes at a distance of 250 miles, claimed to be able split the Earth in two, 
>believed that both
> voice and image could be transmitted through the air (in the late 1800's), and 
>essentially told
> Edison to take his DC electrical system and stick it you know where.
>
> In other words, anyone that has even heard of Tesla probably considers him to be a 
>first class
> wacko.

*
No, most people who have heard of him seem to think that he was the
greatest genius of all time. They completely fail to see that most of
his problems were caused by his own dishonesty and arrogance. I know, I
used to think in the same way.

>
> But, the times are a changin'.
>
> The problem is that Tesla probably could do all these things that he claimed were 
>possible.

*
Maybe, maybe not. He made great claims for his pump, but he was not able
to develop it, though he did have support. People are still trying
unsuccessfully to reach the efficiencies he claimed for it.


In fact,
> Tesla invented every single one of the items listed above (but gets no credit) and 
>much more. Look
> around you and chances are Tesla is somehow responsible for most of the things that 
>make modern life
> so modern.
>

He does not get credit because except for the AC generator and motor, he
did not develop them to a point where they were commercially viable.


> No doubt about it, Nikola Tesla is the greatest mind since da Vinci.
> So who is this genius?
>
> Little Nicky Tesla was born in Smijlan, Croatia way back in 1856. He had an 
>extraordinary memory and
> spoke six languages. He spent four years at the Polytechnic Institute at Gratz 
>studying math,
> physics, and mechanics.
>
> What made Tesla great, however, was his amazing understanding of electricity. 
>Remember that this was
> a time when electricity was still in its infancy. The lightbulb hadn't even been 
>invented yet.
>
> When Tesla first came to the United States in 1884, he worked for Thomas Edison. 
>Edison had just
> patented the lightbulb, so he needed a system to distribute electricity.
>
> Edison had all sorts of problems with his DC system of electricity. He promised 
>Tesla big bucks in
> bonuses if he could get the bugs out of the system. Tesla ended up saving Edison 
>over $100,000
> (millions of $$$ by today's standards), but Edison refused to live up to his end of 
>the bargain.

***

This story may or may not be true. No one else verified it. Why did
Tesla not get this agreement in writing? Was his understanding of what
Edison agreed to insufficient, etc? And, as far as following agreements,
Tesla did not follow his agr

Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

"Dennis, Andrew" wrote:
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> >Had Edision had his way, we would have been on the DC
> >system with step-up generators every 5-6 miles, throughout
> >the country. Thank God for the vision of George Westinghouse,
> >who fully supported Tesla and his 60 cycle AC power generation.
>

If, in fact, this had been the case, electricity would have been more
expensive, but power plants would have been more local, perhaps
developments would have lead to personal electrical power plants. The
development strategy would have been far different. Also, fewer overhead
power lines, some of which are purported to be dangerous. And, of
course, y2k would be far less a potential problem with many more smaller
power plants and no large grids. Also, there are other benefits to DC,
such as its being more easily controlled.


> and:
>
> >Edison and Tesla had a falling out; Edison was a humanitarian.Tesla
> >and Westinghouse hand in hand, produced the first Electric
> >Chair...this resulted in Edison calling in the Westinghouse
> >Chair
>
> no, Edison invented the electric chair (which uses alternating current)
> as a method of execution to demonstrate that AC was "far more dangerous"
> than DC.

I am not too sure that it was Edison who invented the electric chair. As
I recall, he electrocuted some dogs before reporters to show the dangers
of AC. I believe others invented the electric chair. However, I am sure
he was not disappointed at the bad publicity for AC. (And incidentally,
every year several hundred people are electrocuted).
>
> Y'see, because Tesla had the patents for the induction motors and
> generators you need to make cheap AC, Edison couldn't get his snout in
> the trough that Westinghouse (Tesla's employer) was gobbling from.
> Because AC is cheaper to produce and distribute, it was cheaper to the
> customer and therefore more commercially successful.  So Edison tried to
> get it banned on safety grounds (broadly equivalent, in logical terms,
> to getting north-bound roads banned as inherently less safe than
> south-bound roads)...
>

Was there actually any legislation that you can cite which was
introduced to stop AC? If so, did Edison have a connection? If not, by
what right do you accuse Edison of "trying to get it banned"?

Howard Davis

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==
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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Re: [CTRL] [Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference]

[Robert Tatman]

 -Caveat Lector-

"Dennis, Andrew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> >Had Edision had his way, we would have been on the DC
> >system with step-up generators every 5-6 miles, throughout
> >the country. Thank God for the vision of George Westinghouse,
> >who fully supported Tesla and his 60 cycle AC power generation.
>
> and:
>
> >Edison and Tesla had a falling out; Edison was a humanitarian.Tesla
> >and Westinghouse hand in hand, produced the first Electric
> >Chair...this resulted in Edison calling in the Westinghouse
> >Chair
>
> no, Edison invented the electric chair (which uses alternating current)
> as a method of execution to demonstrate that AC was "far more dangerous"
> than DC.
>
> Y'see, because Tesla had the patents for the induction motors and
> generators you need to make cheap AC, Edison couldn't get his snout in
> the trough that Westinghouse (Tesla's employer) was gobbling from.
> Because AC is cheaper to produce and distribute, it was cheaper to the
> customer and therefore more commercially successful.  So Edison tried to
> get it banned on safety grounds (broadly equivalent, in logical terms,
> to getting north-bound roads banned as inherently less safe than
> south-bound roads)...
>
> Andrew
>
Edison's image as "the Great Inventor" was carefully manufactured--by himself.
As far as I can tell, the man never actually invented anything himself except
maybe the lightbulb. Everything else he stole from his assistants, with
absolutely no attribution or remuneration. Just goes to show...if you keep
pulling the wool over people's eyes long enough, eventually they come to think
the world actually *looks* that way.

Bob

=
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Remove "nospam" from the address to reply.

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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[nessie]

 -Caveat Lector-

>Author, William R. Lynn, in his book, "Space Aliens from
the Pentagon" (Creatopia Productions, Lamy, NM, 87540,
$17.95, 505-466-3022 ) makes a compelling case that
Tesla was the original inventor behind a _workable_
propulsion system for a UFO, that was known about and
actually pilfered by the German rocket scientists,


Just as interesting is the appendix on Britt-Papp technology. Fascinating
stuff, that. Has anybody out there actually built a Britt-Papp motor? How
does it behave under load?

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==
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[Colleen Jones]

 -Caveat Lector-

Well I should have read more on Tesla; I just accepted the one page
report because I was looking for the MONSTERS who were tampering with
the weather causing one disaster after anotherand just like the war
in Serbia, Gore appears with "humanitarian" needs to rebuild..

I can see the picture now; his genius being used for evil
purposes.imagine if we had a man like Tesla today; no wonder they
feared his genius.

Anytime the oil companies get their hands on something, well even a few
assassinations can be tracked to their doors through their vicious
propaganda machines.

Colleen

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==
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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[philately]

 -Caveat Lector-

Dennis, Andrew wrote:
>
> no, Edison invented the electric chair (which uses alternating current)
> as a method of execution to demonstrate that AC was "far more
> dangerous" than DC.
>
> Y'see, because Tesla had the patents for the induction motors and
> generators you need to make cheap AC, Edison couldn't get his snout in
> the trough that Westinghouse (Tesla's employer) was gobbling from.
> Because AC is cheaper to produce and distribute, it was cheaper to the
> customer and therefore more commercially successful.  So Edison tried
> to get it banned on safety grounds (broadly equivalent, in logical
> terms, to getting north-bound roads banned as inherently less safe
> than south-bound roads)...


But Edison had too much money invested in his
DC system, so Tommy did his best to discredit
Tesla around every turn. Edison constantly
tried to show that AC electricity was far
more dangerous than his DC power. Tesla
counteracted by staging his own marketing
campaign. At the 1893 World Exposition in
Chicago (attended by 21 million people),
he demonstrated how safe AC electricity was
by passing high frequency AC power through
his body to power light bulbs. He then was
able to shoot large lightning bolts from
his Tesla coils to the crowd without harm.
Nice trick!




Here's a task for you to try:

Go check your encyclopedia to find the answers to the following questions: (answers 
are given in
parentheses)

1) Who invented the radio? (Marconi)

2) Who discovered X-rays? (Roentgen)

3) Who invented the vacuum tube amplifier? (de Forest)

In fact, while you're at it, check to see who discovered the fluorescent bulb, neon 
lights,
speedometer, the automobile ignition system, and the basics behind radar, electron 
microscope, and
the microwave oven.
Chances are that you will see little mention of a guy named Nikola Tesla, the most 
famous scientist
in the world at the turn of the century.
In fact, few people today have ever heard of the guy. Good old Tommy Edison made sure 
of that.

After all, Tesla was considered an eccentric who talked of death rays that could 
destroy 10,000
airplanes at a distance of 250 miles, claimed to be able split the Earth in two, 
believed that both
voice and image could be transmitted through the air (in the late 1800's), and 
essentially told
Edison to take his DC electrical system and stick it you know where.

In other words, anyone that has even heard of Tesla probably considers him to be a 
first class
wacko.

But, the times are a changin'.

The problem is that Tesla probably could do all these things that he claimed were 
possible. In fact,
Tesla invented every single one of the items listed above (but gets no credit) and 
much more. Look
around you and chances are Tesla is somehow responsible for most of the things that 
make modern life
so modern.

No doubt about it, Nikola Tesla is the greatest mind since da Vinci.
So who is this genius?

Little Nicky Tesla was born in Smijlan, Croatia way back in 1856. He had an 
extraordinary memory and
spoke six languages. He spent four years at the Polytechnic Institute at Gratz 
studying math,
physics, and mechanics.

What made Tesla great, however, was his amazing understanding of electricity. Remember 
that this was
a time when electricity was still in its infancy. The lightbulb hadn't even been 
invented yet.

When Tesla first came to the United States in 1884, he worked for Thomas Edison. 
Edison had just
patented the lightbulb, so he needed a system to distribute electricity.

Edison had all sorts of problems with his DC system of electricity. He promised Tesla 
big bucks in
bonuses if he could get the bugs out of the system. Tesla ended up saving Edison over 
$100,000
(millions of $$$ by today's standards), but Edison refused to live up to his end of 
the bargain.

Tesla quit and Edison spent the rest of his life trying to squash Tesla's genius (and 
the main
reason Tesla is unknown today).

Tesla devised a better system for electrical transmission - the AC (alternating 
current) system that
we use in our homes today. AC offered great advantages over the DC system. By using 
Tesla's newly
developed transformers, AC voltages could be stepped up and transmitted over long 
distances through
thin wires. DC could not (requiring a large power plant every square mile while 
transmitting through
very thick cables).
Of course, a system of transmission would be incomplete without devices to run on 
them. So, he
invented the motors that are used in every appliance in your house. This was no simple 
achievement -
scientists of the late 1800's were convinced that no motor could be devised for an 
alternating
current system, making the use of AC a waste of time. After all, if the current 
reverses direction
60 times a second, the motor will rock 

Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[Dennis, Andrew]

 -Caveat Lector-

>Had Edision had his way, we would have been on the DC
>system with step-up generators every 5-6 miles, throughout
>the country. Thank God for the vision of George Westinghouse,
>who fully supported Tesla and his 60 cycle AC power generation.

and:

>Edison and Tesla had a falling out; Edison was a humanitarian.Tesla
>and Westinghouse hand in hand, produced the first Electric
>Chair...this resulted in Edison calling in the Westinghouse
>Chair

no, Edison invented the electric chair (which uses alternating current)
as a method of execution to demonstrate that AC was "far more dangerous"
than DC.

Y'see, because Tesla had the patents for the induction motors and
generators you need to make cheap AC, Edison couldn't get his snout in
the trough that Westinghouse (Tesla's employer) was gobbling from.
Because AC is cheaper to produce and distribute, it was cheaper to the
customer and therefore more commercially successful.  So Edison tried to
get it banned on safety grounds (broadly equivalent, in logical terms,
to getting north-bound roads banned as inherently less safe than
south-bound roads)...

Andrew

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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[Don Allen]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 01:29 AM 4/20/99 -0400, Colleen Jones wrote:

>Thomas Alva Edison and Tesla?  Well  when you consider ARCO oil is using
>his work to destroy our country through this insane Weather Program,
>brining on the torndoes, hurricanesdrought in Florida burningno
>kiddingthese people are now going to further use the weather, as a
>weapon, as they did in Viet Nm to bring on the monsoons six months
>early.

A relevant excerpt from William R. Lyne's book, "Space Aliens from
the Pentagon".

Pages 17-18

--- begin excerpt ---

In 1940, (Wm. L. Laurence, New York Times, Sept 22, 1940), Tesla
announced his _Teleforce_ (italics), consisting of four _already tested_
inventions, as follows:

"(1) A means of producing rays in the free air without a vacuum;
 (2) a method off producing a very great electrical force;
 (3) a method of amplifying this electrical force; and
 (4) a new method for producing a tremendous electrical _propelling_
force."

To show you how insidious the mis-informationalists are, and how easy it is for
them to dupe 'sensation-addicts', there have several recent instances where
the misinformation regarding the four listed inventions, from the original 1940
New York Times article, has been repeated, based on an original "patent",
in which the misrepresentations were originally made in a sly and oblique
way that few would suspect, right under the noses of the "Tesla experts". The
four inventions were already tested at the time, and (4) was a propelling
force. Anyone who ran down the original article to examine it as I did, would
know that.

Among the several places I have discovered this misrepresentation, was a
so-called "patent" on HAARP (High Frequency Auroral Research Project).
The only purpose for such a fraudulent misrepresentation would be for the
explicit purpose of misrepresenting the original Tesla material, to those
studying Tesla's work, because it represented one of the few 'unretrieved'
leaks of Tesla's discovery of the flying saucer propulsion system. The patent,
(No. 4,686,605, issued to Bernard J. Eastlund, Spring, Texas, 1983) is
now owned by Arco Power Technologies, Inc., under which they are to
perform some "top secret" tests for the government, from the North Slope
of Alaska, and was alleged to be one of three patents previously locked
up under a Navy security order. To begin with, patents are not issued on
inventions primary to secret projects. Whatever the real purpose of the
HAARP project, you can bet your booties it isn't what they say it is.
Secondly, the real purpose  of planting the false particulars of the 'patent'
in publications read by 'alternative researchers', was to obscure and
misrepresent Tesla's discovery of the ether propulsion system used on
flying saucers.

And who is ARCO? (Atlantic Richfield Oil Company) was created by Trilateral
Commission member Robert O. Anderson, of Roswell, New Mexico, the creator
of  Diamond A Cattle Company, the largest holding company in North America,
which owns all known oil shale deposits in North America, and almost all
mineral rights in the North Slope of Alaska. ARCO moved to garner a monopoly
on solar and alternate energy resources after the "fuel crisis" of 1974.

The misinformation placed in the 'patent' was repeated (NEXUS Magazine,
April-May 1995 - Extraordinary Science, Jan-Feb-Mar, 1995) just precisely
where it shouldn't have been, but just precisely  where the Secret Government
wanted it. Once something like this gets started, where does it stop? Those
who should have known better, did nothing to stop it. Where the ball goes,
nobody knows. We cannot allow this Trilateralist misrepresentation of Tesla's
work to go unchallenged.

--- end excerpt ---


---

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[Colleen Jones]

 -Caveat Lector-

Thanks Don.I remember that AC/DC stuff now in material I had on
Tesla; and you are right, I was thinking ill of Tesla for how they are
using his work now.

Me, you know, I am just the average American who can get this gist of
this stuff, and know when I get hit by a lightning bolt (twice last year
- have a lot of evergreens)but the technical stuff, well let us say
I am Amy Carter discussing the Nuclear Bomb with Daddy.

Remembe how Carter said he discussed this stuff with Amy.I about
died.  Einstein made simple again for dumbells like me.

Farewell.you know, that article I had on Tesla was biased towards
Edison; all I could remember was that horrible electric chair that even
I lived in fear of when I was little..

colleen

You know, I would like to put Clinton in tht hot seat, along with
Albright and Reno.I would personally lite that fire.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[Don Allen]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 01:29 AM 4/20/99 -0400, Colleen Jones wrote:

>Thomas Alva Edison and Tesla?  Well  when you consider ARCO oil is using
>his work to destroy our country through this insane Weather Program,
>brining on the torndoes, hurricanesdrought in Florida burningno
>kiddingthese people are now going to further use the weather, as a
>weapon, as they did in Viet Nm to bring on the monsoons six months
>early.
>
>Tempertures going up at night; artificial lightning and earthquakes;
>give me Edison the Man.lets bury Tesla and his destructive side.
>Colleen

Tesla did not create HAARP, nor is it of his doing. Unfortunately, there
are those ignorant people who insist that he did. They are wrong, wrong,
wrong.

Edison was above all, an opportunist and a copy cat. The falling out
between him and Tesla was documented in "Tesla: Man out of Time",
by Margaret Cheney. Edison viewed Tesla's brilliant genius as a direct
threat to his DC system. He was a cheapskate - he made an offer to Tesla
if he would re-design his dynamos, he would pay him handomely. When Tesla
finished, he reneged and offered Tesla a paltry increase in salary. Tesla
walked out.


The Smithsonian believes strongly in revisonist history. See the
url - http://www.cris.com/~Jwwagner/ . No credit whatsoever to
Tesla, yet Edison is revered as a god. There are people that believe
that Marconi invented radio, but they are wrong too. Patents don't
lie.

I'm a native Floridian and just recently moved to Colorado. I know all
about the drought in Florida, and the fires. I was there in Orlando
last year traveling back and forth to Flagler Beach, Daytona and to
Titusville. I drove through smoke so thick, you couldn't see 10 feet
in front of you, on both 1-4 near Deland, and I-95 near Titusville.
The fires have come earlier this year, since La Nina has moved the
jetstream around and not enough moisture has moved down to Florida
and Georgia yet. However, come June, Florida will get an afternoon
thunderboomer.

Don


---

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference

[Colleen Jones]

 -Caveat Lector-

I just had to intercede with a few comments; Tesla was a genius, no
doubt.

Edison and Tesla had a falling out; Edison was a humanitarian.Tesla
and Westinghouse hand in hand, produced the first Electric
Chair...this resulted in Edison calling in the Westinghouse
Chair

Thomas Alva Edison and Tesla?  Well  when you consider ARCO oil is using
his work to destroy our country through this insane Weather Program,
brining on the torndoes, hurricanesdrought in Florida burningno
kiddingthese people are now going to further use the weather, as a
weapon, as they did in Viet Nm to bring on the monsoons six months
early.

Tempertures going up at night; artificial lightning and earthquakes;
give me Edison the Man.lets bury Tesla and his destructive side.
Colleen

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om