Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian
From: "name AOL USER" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I dunno if that's really all that small. The multi-millionaire who "married" > the Congers lady on TV was said to have a 1200 sq ft home (with a busted > toilet or bathtub sitting in the backyard). > If we put two and two together, it would appear that comparatively the Miami > family lived in very upper class/income housing! :-) I'm 'guestimating' the size of the bedroom based on the known size of my own diningroom, which is fine for a medium sized table with 4 chairs and a china cabinet, but would be very small for two beds and a bureau, especially for 2 people of such disparate ages and opposite sex.. The average home is about 1500 sq. feet. While 1200 sq. feet is smallish, it isn't particularly tiny. From what I've seen of the Miami house, both inside and outside, it looks to be between 800 to 1000 sq. feet. Cozy for 2 adults, and adequate for 2 adults and 1 child; but too cramped for for 3 adults and 1 child, especially when the child has to share a bedroom with an adult of the opposite sex. June http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian
In a message dated 4/30/00 8:21:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > But what WAS obvious was that the room couldn't have been much larger than > perhaps 9 x 12, and that Elian's bed, pushed up against the far wall, had to > have been abutting Marisleysis' bed, perhaps maybe a few inches separating > the two. I dunno if that's really all that small. The multi-millionaire who "married" the Congers lady on TV was said to have a 1200 sq ft home (with a busted toilet or bathtub sitting in the backyard). If we put two and two together, it would appear that comparatively the Miami family lived in very upper class/income housing! :-) http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian
From: "name AOL USER" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > The floor diagrams of the house seem to indicate that there was only one bed > in each of the bedrooms. Those floor diagrams were in either Time or Newsweek > (I threw them both out) but I found it strange when I first saw it, that a > six year old was apparently sharing a bed with a 21-year old girl. In the 'house tour' video on CNN the Saturday after the raid, Marisleysis brought the cameraman and reporter into her bedroom, and showed two beds, a broken youth bed she said was Elian's, and her own, which was either another youth bed, or perhaps a twin size -- the camera didn't stay on it long enough to really tell. But what WAS obvious was that the room couldn't have been much larger than perhaps 9 x 12, and that Elian's bed, pushed up against the far wall, had to have been abutting Marisleysis' bed, perhaps maybe a few inches separating the two. In this 'house tour' video, we never see a TV in this room...since Marisleysis makes a big deal regarding the INS 'breaking' Elian's bed, one would think a TV in that room wouldn't have fared too well. Yet in the Washington Post article, The Janitor waxes nostalgically about the time he and Elian were lying on Elian's bed watching "The Lion King" and Elian, mimicing the lions in the cartoon, repeatedly licked The Janitor... If his recall of this event is true, it would seem that a TV and VCR was specifically brought into this tiny, cramped room just for that one occasion, raising the question of why Elian and The Janitor couldn't enjoy watching the cartoon out in the livingroom with everyone else, and instead were sequestered away for that occasion... > I don't think there's a sexual connection there, Between Elian and Marisleysis, probably not. But I'm not so sure about Elian and The Janitor Who Would Be Fisherman... > but I do wonder if the two were mutually dependent... Considering Marisleysis' father's drinking problems, plus the drinking problem of one of Lazaro's brothers; plus the long record of armed robberies of two of his other brothers (who have been part of the milieu milling about the house ever since Elian came on the scene), this is definitely one dysfunctional family. And as is common in a dysfunctional family where substance abuse is involved, one member is usually placed into the role of 'savior', while another is cast into the role of 'black sheep'. I don't know who fulfilled these roles before the Elian saga began, but when Elian arrived, he became the perfect 'savior' for them; and the federal gov't then provided a convenient scapegoat, a perfect black sheep (alleviating the pressure on whomever was the 'black sheep' in this family before)... A great portion of their emotional energy in trying to retain and regain custody of Elian is probably due to the need of certain members not to be put under the pressure of their old roles of saviour/blacksheep, a desire to keep the convenient and easy pressure valves of 'savior' Elian and 'blacksheep' U.S. government/Cuban government/Fidel Castro/Juan Miguel Gonzalez... June http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian
From: "Prudence L. Kuhn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Yes but the fisherman friend said he and Elian were sleeping on a couch. According to Marisleysis' version of reality, Elian had conveniently awoken from his night's sleep some time before the raid, and so presumably got dressed, and then joined an adult cousin of Marisleysis' (who has remained nameless thru this whole thing) and the cousin's 5 year old (we are never told whether this child is a boy or girl, nor where this child slept the night just ending) on a couch in the livingroom to presumably watch TV. We are told The Janitor was sleeping on another couch -- in the 'house tour' video, both he and Marisleysis indicate a couch which was then just under the window against the front wall; but in subsequent accounts, we are told that the couch was pushed up against the front door. If so (it's the INS itself making this claim), hardly sounds like a raid was as unexpected as the Miami gang now claims June http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian
In a message dated 4/28/00 11:02:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > First of all, they must have been expecting something, in spite of > the ongoing negotiations. And secondly, Prudy, in her press > conference, Maryelsis (sp?) did show that the intruding agents had > broken Elian's bed, which did seem to be a youth bed with an > added automotive motif. > The floor diagrams of the house seem to indicate that there was only one bed in each of the bedrooms. Those floor diagrams were in either Time or Newsweek (I threw them both out) but I found it strange when I first saw it, that a six year old was apparently sharing a bed with a 21-year old girl. I don't think there's a sexual connection there, but I do wonder if the two were mutually dependent...Elian might have been having nightmares, etc, and the cousin developing maternal/protective feelings for the child. I would be more concerned about the fisherman who seems even stranger in behavior than Marysleises (sp?) I'm still pissed that the IRS is after me to pay more taxes, but these people, who received over $200,000 in cash, gifts, and services, go off scott-free from paying $60,000 in taxes because they are protected by a large voting bloc in south Florida. And make no mistake, every politician down there is afraid of the Cuban vote (one-third of the population, and probably critical in any election outcome since they seem to vote as a block). Having lived down there, I feel (but could never prove) that most Miami Cubans are afraid to speak out against the supposed Cuban "leaders" there. Miami has turned into as big a crime mess as any city in the US...there's the Russian mob now ensconced in great numbers, and a lot of Colombians too. Drugs are pretty widely available, and gang warfare is not uncommon. Yes, it's become an interesting metropolis, but the underbelly is sure ugly. http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian
In a message dated 4/28/2000 9:02:31 PM Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << First of all, they must have been expecting something, in spite of the ongoing negotiations. And secondly, Prudy, in her press conference, Maryelsis (sp?) did show that the intruding agents had broken Elian's bed, which did seem to be a youth bed with an added automotive motif. >> Yes but the fisherman friend said he and Elian were sleeping on a couch. A child doesn't need to stay fully dressed, because someone might be expecting something. A child would be picked up regardless. I'm not a big fan of Batista Cubans, so I'm probably showing a bid of prejudice here. Pdy http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian
Marisleysis has a job. I don't know anything about the others, but she's been on temporary leave to take care of Elian. I'd like to know who is paying the dear Mr. Craig (that's the father's lawyer's name, right?) Since Craig is such a good friend of Billy boy Clinton's maybe he's doing him a favour. And who's paying for all of the plane trips by school chums and teachers etc. to visit him? Don't tell me Castro is parting with some of his billions! Too bad he wouldn't use some of it to feed and clothe the poor children in his country. Tara All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men and women to do nothing. -Original Message- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of William Shannon Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 11:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian Nah, it seemed to be a real indulgence in a family with no discernable income! Please tell me how this family of unemployed interlopers could possibly afford to buy that "bed" as well as pay the mortgage on that shed, pay the grocery bill, the cell-phone bill, lights,cameras...puppies...! It's plain to this tax-paying Euro-American that these "people" owe taxes on everything that they recieved, and let us be honest...they were CLEARLY the benificants of MANY gifts...So if I have to pay taxes...so do they! Fair is fair! And my "gifts" aren't even close to the charity that this ilk recieved. All I know is they better pay their due! Bill. http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian
In a message dated 4/28/00 10:02:31 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << n her press conference, Maryelsis (sp?) did show that the intruding agents had broken Elian's bed, which did seem to be a youth bed with an added automotive motif. >> Nah, it seemed to be a real indulgence in a family with no discernable income! Please tell me how this family of unemployed interlopers could possibly afford to buy that "bed" as well as pay the mortgage on that shed, pay the grocery bill, the cell-phone bill, lights,cameras...puppies...! It's plain to this tax-paying Euro-American that these "people" owe taxes on everything that they recieved, and let us be honest...they were CLEARLY the benificants of MANY gifts...So if I have to pay taxes...so do they! Fair is fair! And my "gifts" aren't even close to the charity that this ilk recieved. All I know is they better pay their due! Bill. http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian
On 26 Apr 00, at 11:29, Prudence L. Kuhn wrote: > There's another strange thing here, but when I put my children to bed, > they first had a bath, then put on pajamas and were tucked in. A > couch does for sleeping, but when I think of that freight car load of > toys that were all over that place, I would think someone might have > sprung for a youth bed. I was looking at a picture of a child > wearing normal street clothing and even (if I recall correctly) shoes. > That's an odd way to put a child to bed. Prudy First of all, they must have been expecting something, in spite of the ongoing negotiations. And secondly, Prudy, in her press conference, Maryelsis (sp?) did show that the intruding agents had broken Elian's bed, which did seem to be a youth bed with an added automotive motif. sno0wl http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian
From: "Prudence L. Kuhn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> << A final discrepancy...why is the INS agent in the infamous photo wearing
> green fatigues, while the videos we see of the INS agents entering and
> leaving the house during the raid only show agents all in black? Why is
> this agent wearing a different uniform than his comrades? >>
>
> There's another strange thing here, but when I put my children to bed, they
> first had a bath, then put on pajamas and were tucked in. A couch does for
> sleeping, but when I think of that freight car load of toys that were all
> over that place, I would think someone might have sprung for a youth bed. I
> was looking at a picture of a child wearing normal street clothing and even
> (if I recall correctly) shoes. That's an odd way to put a child to bed.
If you saw the 'house tour' video, Marisleysis breaks down in tears when she
displays Elian's broken bed ("They broke his bed! They broke Elian's bed! Boo
hoo hoo!"), which is right next to her bed in her bedroom that can't be bigger
than 9 feet by 12...
In her version of reality, Elian was sleeping in his room until shortly before
the raid, when he supposedly awoke on his own...perhaps he had been in pajamas
and perhaps she dressed him when he got up...perhaps that is what she was doing
in 'the backroom' prior to the raid (altho she then claims Elian was in the
livingroom on the couch with his 5 year old cousin when the INS entered...we are
never told where the 5 year old cousin slept that night, nor what the cousin
wore to sleep in)...
But one would think Elian would have been in barefeet...why put shoes on him at
5 in the morning, when one would think that nothing more than breakfast and
watching cartoons on TV was on Elian's agenda that morning? Especially since
we are told that adults were still sleeping at that time, you'd think the last
thing they'd do is put noisy footwear on a 6 year old...
June
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Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian
> I > was looking at a picture of a child wearing normal street clothing and > even > (if I recall correctly) shoes. That's an odd way to put a child to > bed. Well, either they were just tuckered out from the days' events or they might have been getting ready to move. Ergo, the raid. How many operatives did the gov't have outside (or inside)? Now, about these 'rights', as in "Miranda". I have a coupla concerns. (1) Do non-citizens get the same 'rights' as those of us who by various means (birth right, citizenship, and the like) get the guarantees? (2) If they read the little feller his 'rights' (assuming as a non-American, refugee, asylum seeker, et cetera, he automatically gets Mirandised), would he be competent to make a rational decision therefrom? I awoke one morning in the past few week or so and was listening to NPR (that's an eye-opener!) and a woman attorney from Mpls/St P was almost speechless about the judge's decision to grant the little feller's asylum position DESPITE the fact he was just a 6 year old who had made an 'unrehearsed' video to his Papa. Who out there would give credence to a 6 y/old to be competent to make any decisions about the law much less how much meat, potatoes, and brussels sprouts he or she had to eat before dessert or TV? It may be just a technicality to go through the motions but to expect a youngster -- even an American one -- to be able to understand the implications is realy ssstttrreettcchhiinngg it. Even with Juicy Fruit gum. It seems that the government would be justified in taking the little feller to make SURE he was in the care of responsible adult supervision BEFORE confusing him with " ... you have the right to remain silent ..." Of course, the uncles and aunts have now lost their little Mojo and life now will return to its lacklustre daily humdrum. A<>E<>R Integrity has no need of rules. -Albert Camus (1913-1960) + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian
[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: > >CNN reports they had thrown a sofa against the front door Anybody who thinks that a sofa against the door will keep out the jackbooted G-men is too dumb to raise kids. http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian
In a message dated 4/26/00 11:29:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > In a message dated 4/25/2000 8:32:08 PM Mountain Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << A final discrepancy...why is the INS agent in the infamous photo wearing > green fatigues, while the videos we see of the INS agents entering and > leaving the house during the raid only show agents all in black? Why is > this agent wearing a different uniform than his comrades? >> > > There's another strange thing here, but when I put my children to bed, they > first had a bath, then put on pajamas and were tucked in. A couch does for > sleeping, but when I think of that freight car load of toys that were all > over that place, I would think someone might have sprung for a youth bed. > I > was looking at a picture of a child wearing normal street clothing and even > (if I recall correctly) shoes. That's an odd way to put a child to bed. > Prudy > I suspect they were ready to move him out after Reno told them time was up. CNN reports they had thrown a sofa against the front door. http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian
In a message dated 4/25/2000 8:32:08 PM Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << A final discrepancy...why is the INS agent in the infamous photo wearing green fatigues, while the videos we see of the INS agents entering and leaving the house during the raid only show agents all in black? Why is this agent wearing a different uniform than his comrades? >> There's another strange thing here, but when I put my children to bed, they first had a bath, then put on pajamas and were tucked in. A couch does for sleeping, but when I think of that freight car load of toys that were all over that place, I would think someone might have sprung for a youth bed. I was looking at a picture of a child wearing normal street clothing and even (if I recall correctly) shoes. That's an odd way to put a child to bed. Prudy http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian
From: "Alamaine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Yeah, I heard it all from Donato on *Hannity & Colmes* (Fox) last night -- > RIGHT after I posted the initial query. I think they expected (as I did, in > all reality) that the protestors would serve as their 'human shield' and give > them plenty of time to make a run for it. Donato did say on the air (live) > that if it wasn't for the gun pointed in his direction, he'd have NOT given the > kid up. But there's something that doesn't add up in their version... First off, the NBC cameraman claimed to be dozing on the floor right behind the front door... According to Marisleysis, they 'all' thought the initial sounds at the front door were the demonstrators, and claimed not to suspect it was the INS until it was too late... Well, who 'all', if Donato was sound asleep on the couch, only about 3 feet away from the door, and especially that cameraman who was right behind the door...? Then we are told that Donato awoke from a sound sleep, knew immediately what was going on, and made a flying leap across the living room to grab the wide- awake Elian off the couch on the opposite side of the room... Meanwhile, the NBC cameraman must have still been dozing, because according to his version, he was 'surprised' by the INS rushing through the door, so much so that he got knocked unconscious... Keep in mind that these are the same people who are now claiming the INS never knocked, and just broke down the door with no warning... To continue the discrepancy, Marisleysis in the 'home tour' video, at the beginning of her account of the events claims she was in either the bathroom, or 'back room', her accent made it hard to determine exactly which...but irregardless, she places herself somewhere other than the living room (where the NBC cameraman, Donato, Elian, and Marisleysis' adult cousin and the cousin's 5 year old child were), and the kitchen (where Lazalo and the lawyers were)... So where was the AP photographer before the INS came in? He is never mentioned in their account, although Marisleysis made it a point to inform us where everyone else was located at the moment the INS arrived... Perhaps the photographer was with Marisleysis in that 'back room', or 'bathroom' (which presumably is located in close proximity to her parents' bedroom, which could be the only room in that tiny house that could be referred to as a 'back room')... Which means that prior to the INS entering, supposedly taking them all by surprise, the AP photographer seems to have positioned himself in the most advantageous spot to be able to take the infamous picture... He would have had to have been in the room BEFORE Donato entered with Elian, because it is a tiny room, and he was positioned between the back wall, the bed, and the closet door, to be able to take that picture from that angle... unless we are to believe he followed the INS agent into the room and then jumped over the bed and into that corner to grab that picture... An unlikely scenario, because in the early versions of the picture we see another INS agent entering in the bedroom door, only a foot or so away from his comrade already in the room...it's unlikely that 2nd agent would have allowed the AP photographer to enter in immediately after the first agent... Another slip in Marisleysis' and Donato's account of events, and something which raises a question regarding their claim that Donato was fast asleep (does he look like someone who was just awakened from a sound sleep on a couch in the famous picture?), is that they claimed that they didn't know what was going on, because they heard banging on the BACK door. Now neither Marisleysis or Donato stated that Lazalo and the lawyers, sitting in the kitchen by that back door, said they heard banging; by her own account, Marisleysis said that she and Donato heard it... So here we have them claiming that Marisleysis was somewhere other than the kitchen or the livingroom, and that Donato was sound asleep on the couch, when they suddenly heard a loud noise at the front door. Marisleysis claims she rushed out to the livingroom just as Donato, roused from his deep slumber, immediately sizes up the situation and grabs Elian from the couch on the opposite side of the room, and makes a mad dash for her parents' bedroom... According to their account, this was done in a matter of seconds... So how did they personally know that INS agents were also at the back door... unless they first tried to make an escape out the backdoor, but realized that way was blocked, and fell back to the bedroom as a last resort...? And why the parents' bedroom, and not Elian's (and Marisleysis') bedroom? Could it be because they had set up the AP photographer in the parents' bedroom? It seems as if perhaps they'd discussed contingencies beforehand, agreeing that the first course of action, when and if the feds came, would be to try to escape out the back door; and barring that, they'd run with Elian into tha
Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian
Yeah, I heard it all from Donato on *Hannity & Colmes* (Fox) last night -- RIGHT after I posted the initial query. I think they expected (as I did, in all reality) that the protestors would serve as their 'human shield' and give them plenty of time to make a run for it. Donato did say on the air (live) that if it wasn't for the gun pointed in his direction, he'd have NOT given the kid up. As far as the flag is concerned (Prudy), I couldn't believe all the flags they had out there. It was like they did a midnight raid on the UN and got flags of all nations. They even had the Israeli flag flying on a pole. Why? Then there was the Spanish flag. Well, sorry to offend anyone, but if the Spanish had stayed home about five hundred years ago, none of this would be happening. One day I was flipping through my World Almanac just trying to figure out who's flag was out there. But I still don't get the Israeli one. I think the ripping up of the U.S. flag should put a few people on a return trip to the homeland. They got no flag left to hide behind. A<>E<>R > > In their version of what happened, Marisleysis and Donato claimed that as > soon as > the INS started banging on the front door, Donato 'woke up', ran across > the room > and snatched Elian from the couch he was on, and ran into Marisleysis' > parents' > bedroom, and tried to hide in the closet... > A<>E<>R ~~~ Integrity has no need of rules. -Albert Camus (1913-1960) + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your common sense." --Buddha + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly. -Bertrand Russell + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + "Everyone has the right...to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers." Universal Declaration of Human Rights + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + "Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." Ernest Hemingway + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Forwarded as information only; no endorsement to be presumed + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without charge or profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this type of information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Alien Elian
From: "Alamaine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Hey! Was there any wordage as to *why* the little feller and the bigger feller > were in the closet to begin with? I had been led to believe that the raid > itself was somewhat of a surprise although predicted. This one detail leaves > me in appuzzlement ... A<>E<>R Yes, there does seem to be something fishy about the whole set up...according to their own words in the 'house tour' video after the raid, Marisleysis and Donato stated that not only were they and Maisleysis' father and mother there, but a cousin and the cousin's 5 year old kid, plus that AP photographer AND a cameraman from NBC (who presumably always join in slumber parties on their assignments?)... Now if you've seen the inside of that house, it's one damn small house to have all those people squeezed in (remember also that their legal team was there too, supposedly on the phone still 'negotiating')... So in that little house, which only has a kitchen, living room, 2 bedrooms and one bathroom, there were at least 8 or more adults, and at least 2 small children. In their version of what happened, Marisleysis and Donato claimed that as soon as the INS started banging on the front door, Donato 'woke up', ran across the room and snatched Elian from the couch he was on, and ran into Marisleysis' parents' bedroom, and tried to hide in the closet... But something DID slip out in their recounting of events, something I think they weren't aware they'd let slip...they both admitted to 'discovering' that INS agents were also trying to come in the back door... They could only know that if they tried to run out the back door themselves... so I think they made a split second decision to try to make a run for it by escaping out the back door, and when they discovered that way blocked, only then did Donato run into the back bedroom June http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
