Re: [CTRL] As Impeachment Looms, Clinton Seems In Denial (Reuters)

1998-12-21 Thread RoadsEnd

 -Caveat Lector-

I do believe that Bush needed to get out of the spotlight. Also the
Democractic majority of the populace demands that the Republicans allows some
Demos in office, hopefully controlled, at least a controlled besmirching. It
allows the Hegellian process its latitudes.  Bush was there for 12 years.
Through his daddy there was nixon for many more. Clinton's downfall has been
well orchestrated for us, hoi polloi and inspiring elites.

And look at the dept of Justice very little staff changes and what did took
forever.
Remember Clinton was 'partners' in Mena, etc.  And I am sure that behind the
scenes  real deal is much different than what is presented to us hoi polloi.

The hand of intell, the military and secret societies are everwhere.

Just read Quigley the only guy Clinton mentioned when he got nomiated and
inaugarated. He said lets stop the intrigue -kinda like

The target is our Republic, Freedoms and Liberties.

The arming of the populace with hatred towards other segements of the populace
is following along the lines of the social dissanonce that was apparent during
pre-wwII.

Read the protocols, the unedited versions without all the anti-semtism and you
will find laid out a very concise plan for 'taking over/ controlling the
world'. John Daniel gives a very interesting history to those documents.

The problem is the internet is busting that plan by removing 'the dominating
voice' and has the possibilty of doing away with the controlled money systems
of today. By freeing people's acces to each other and mediums of media, the
social reverberations are only just beginng to be explored and understood.
Info and money are two of the strongest of dominating factors used by the
cryptocracy.

I am sure that contingacy plans are already in place to try and use the
situation for advantage of those in powerful positions. A velveta revolution?
Some forms of anarchy.? The continual stacking of straws on the camel back,
into cynisim and blame. Then blame goes searching for victims. The
divisiveness of somethings on this list shows some of the strata and other
list and boards can give you an appreciation of other very divisive issues.
Each carry-on with it's folks always blaming the other. Many of the extremes
seem 'staged' and I suppose they are. I mean why did the CIA pay Gloria
Steinham for? And how many other of the 'social causes' are just hegellian
tools to help build and codify natural divisions of age, class, etc?
Once the ball is rolling it either snowballs and/or its on to next 'cause'.

Om
K

In a message dated 12/21/98 1:56:34 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Bush handed over the presidency
to Clinton in 1992. From my observation of the campaign of 1992, George Bush
was not seriously running. We also recall that Clinton was the only
presidential candidate from either party to attend the Baden Baden Bilderberg
conclave in 1991. Did Bush play a key role in the decision to retire
him(self)
as a one-term president? Doesn't seem to make sense but at the same time (in
my opinion) he seemed to know the outcome of the November, '92 election long
in advance. Incidentally, does anyone recall what brought Bush's poll numbers
down so rapidly in the year and a half between the end of the Gulf War and
that election?

Jim
-
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
Omnia Bona Bonis,
All My Relations.
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End
Kris

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Re: [CTRL] As Impeachment Looms, Clinton Seems In Denial (Reuters)

1998-12-20 Thread Teo1000

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/19/98 11:42:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Assuming that China is
 making a profit on all the goods they are selling to US, where is all this
 money going to? Well, one is to the continued erosion of any US national
 manufacturing expertise and capability. All paid for by US, slick trick,
hunh.

 The clinton / cosco etc. sideshow is to keep the 'dogs' at  'command' and 

Interesting comments Kris.  Ones that I will give due consideration.  We are
not in disagreement about Bush's relationship to Clinton.  No comparison, Bush
is the REAL wheeler-dealer and THE mover and shaker.  Clinton is indeed
somewhat of a patsy as I stated but should we allow those in office to
continue to get away with everything and not raise a ruckus?  Should we not
execute our will and demand that something be done?  Well, in retrospect maybe
we SHOULDN'T, since we already know that this thing is already mapped out and
determined.  Senate will not convict, and he will continue, making everyone
happy and getting a lot of shit done behind the scenes when nobody is
watching.  Maybe we should be looking for the man behind the curtain rather
than the show that is before us.  i am just as cynical as you are Kris knowing
full well where this is going, but damn it is frustrating and I want what is
best for our country and can't help but feel that one good thing would be to
let him take his lumps and maybe cause some people to wake up and take some
political action as a result of this.  Who Knows?  Some people don't vote any
more because it is who "they" want to be elected who finally is elected.  Why
should we care?  Maybe we shouldn't after all it is just a play for the
public's benefit.
Teo1000

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Om



Re: [CTRL] As Impeachment Looms, Clinton Seems In Denial (Reuters)

1998-12-20 Thread E Mael

 -Caveat Lector-

[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
Why expect more from me?  I agree with you wholeheartedly.  But it is
unlikely
that we will get him for the big stuff so I say get him for what we can.
As
for there being plenty more of the republicans who are assholes and rich,
absolutely but nowhere do I say we should cozy up to them.  I think they
are
all a bunch of assholes and I totally agree with you that it is the
SYSTEM as
it operates (not as it was designed, perhaps) that needs to be changed.
Hang
them all?  Yes, absolutely!  I am NOT a republican, and DO NOT support
anything they do any more than I support anything the democrats do.  You
are
right about one other thing too, when the republican fat cats pay you off
you
stay bought or you die.  Simple equation.
Teo1000


ditto; maybe i just thought i saw something. we have the same position
pretty much. sometimes the words just get in the way. post on.

salute'

chris

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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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nazi's need not apply.

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Om



Re: [CTRL] As Impeachment Looms, Clinton Seems In Denial (Reuters)

1998-12-19 Thread PRUDYL

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/18/98 4:38:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Well this is interesting...  Correct me if I am wrong but, once it goes to
a
 vote and if he is impeached isn't there automatically a criminal trial?  I
 understood that if he resigned and was pardoned then he wouldn't face a
 trial.  So, if he "appears" unconcerned I have to ask, what Ace does he have
 up his sleeve?

 Hilary 


I don't think he has an ace up his sleeve.  I think he is a pragmatic
individual who realizes that even God could not stop the Republicans from this
impeachment program, so what good does it do to waste time and worry on it.
Some women may understand.  It's like being pregnant.  You just relax and wait
for the outcome.  I even called my own congressman, Phil English, to tell him
to vote for impeachment.  We might as well get on with it.  This way the
Republican Party won't have to punish him for disobeying orders, and he may
get decent committee seats and be able to do the people in his district some
good.  The other plus is that this business just might get the Democrats back
in control of Congress.  Prudy

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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Om



Re: [CTRL] As Impeachment Looms, Clinton Seems In Denial (Reuters)

1998-12-19 Thread Teo1000

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/19/98 7:21:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

  The other plus is that this business just might get the Democrats back
 in control of Congress.  Prudy 

That way there won't be any more bickering and the Dem.'s can sell all the
technology to China and maybe Russia too, so that they can realm their
missiles at us with greater precision.  The Republican's are evil but at least
you KNOW it is coming Dem.'s are much more wolves in sheep's clothing 'cause
they are just as bad if not worse than the republicans [except George Bush who
IS the antichrist], but act as if they are not.  Clinton and Dem.'s are for
the "working man" and the people and "against" corporations, that is the
propaganda but nothing could be further from the truth, look at GATT, and
NAFTA and it's devastating effect on our workforce.  He is pushing MAI and the
IMF which is just monetary Mafia dictating how others should run their own
countries.
This message is for anyone who isn't a knee jerk Democratic robot, like Prudy,
who thinks that the Dem.'s are angels and the rep's devils and that Clinton is
practically god manifest and can do NO wrong but let the rep's say one word
and it is jump all over them.  This message is for people who are tired of the
same old shit in Washington.  For people who want a revolution that will take
us legally back to true representative democracy and constitutional law.  I
think Clinton should be hanged for his TREASON, selling out our national
defense for MONEY, what happened to the CIA guy who got caught doing the same
thing?  Where is he?  I don't give a rat's ass whether he had sex or lied or
committed perjury.  They won't go after him for the important things because
they will implicate themselves.  It HAS to be personal in order to get them
off the hook.  Political expediency.  So we have the situation as it is,
Clinton has committed crimes, they are sufficient for his removal so get him
the hell out, I wish we could go after more and get him for treason and all
the rest but why not take one step at a time?
Prudy and other Clinton die-hard lovers, please keep your heads firmly buried
in the sand because if you saw the reality you might think that your one sided
view is badly distorted which could cause some trauma, I don't want to be the
cause of that, thank you very much.
Teo1000
PS I know that Prudy will respond with "well why didn't we get Bush?" because
that's the only mantra she knows to ward off the evil that surrounds Clinton.
The answer is that he was TOO powerful and had TOO MUCH money.  I don't like
it and never will but let us effect change NOW before it is too late, CLINTON
is president NOW not BUSH.  Will we always dwell in the past?  Why not just
sit back like idiots and dream of the days of glory under Kennedy instead of
actually doing something?  It is stupid that is why.
PPS I have nothing against Prudy or other Clinton and democrat supporters
EXCEPT that they refuse to see the truth, It is not personal.
Have a nice day?

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==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om



Re: [CTRL] As Impeachment Looms, Clinton Seems In Denial (Reuters)

1998-12-19 Thread RoadsEnd

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/19/98 9:31:53 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

CLINTON
is president NOW not BUSH.

 I say Mr. Bush is farther-up the puppet-master line. Clinton is more patsy
than president, MHO. The impeachment proceedings are very destructive to our
body politic/republic, that is why it is being proceeded along partisan lines.
The federal government, excepting the few mavericks, has been highly corrupt
for years and our idealism is used against us.

Now, don't get me wrong. I do not care for Clinton, voted third party, but
this 'dumbing down' of presidential impeachment and orchestrated scandal is
downright funky and is not in the republic best interest.

Clinton is much more captive, gee, do you think that anyone might have any
blackmailable info on Billy-boy? Let us get real , get beyond our own partisan
viewpoint and stand back to see the 'big picture'.

Partisan impeachment is divisive on its face; Disgusting in  its wake and
destructive for our institutions.

Om
K

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om



Re: [CTRL] As Impeachment Looms, Clinton Seems In Denial (Reuters)

1998-12-19 Thread Teo1000

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/19/98 1:05:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, Roads End
writes:

  I say Mr. Bush is farther-up the puppet-master line. Clinton is more patsy
than president, MHO. The impeachment proceedings are very destructive to our
body politic/republic, that is why it is being proceeded along partisan lines.
The federal government, excepting the few mavericks, has been highly corrupt
for years and our idealism is used against us.

 Now, don't get me wrong. I do not care for Clinton, voted third party, but
this 'dumbing down' of presidential impeachment and orchestrated scandal is
downright funky and is not in the republic best interest.

 Clinton is much more captive, gee, do you think that anyone might have any
blackmailable info on Billy-boy? Let us get real , get beyond our own partisan
viewpoint and stand back to see the 'big picture'.

 Partisan impeachment is divisive on its face; Disgusting in  its wake and
destructive for our institutions.

 Om 

Well said, and I might agree with you but it is a purely political thing
anyway, outside of our efforts to change it.  The House will vote for
impeachment and pass the ball to the Senate where everyone knows they don't
have enough votes to put him out, they are all trying to cover each other's
asses.  Now as to Bush still being ringleader, I find that completely possible
in an overarching non-direct way, but he must be out of the loop in some of
what Clinton does in order for my theories about Clinton and China to be true.
He will not be removed, so it is really a moot point.  Clinton is a patsy in
some ways but all too knowledgeable and accountable in other ways.
I disagree that a constitutional process could be bad for the republic.  Maybe
some other, better good will come of it if it indeed forces out other issues
of more immediate concern and brings down a lot of the goon republicans and
not a few other democrats in office as well.
I'm flexible, but as I say the political process is already in place to try
and save everyone's bacon so it is unlikely that this will lead anywhere.  One
point I will grant in considering this just now, if the process continues it
could lead to more needless deaths when Clinton decides to attack East
Hicksburg because they are a "security threat" to the US, in another wag the
dog scenario.
Teo1000

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==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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Om



Re: [CTRL] As Impeachment Looms, Clinton Seems In Denial (Reuters)

1998-12-19 Thread Teo1000

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/19/98 1:10:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 the only difference between the republicrats and the democans is that the
 republicrats can afford to make sure that those whose silence have been
 bought, stay bought. they keep that power because they have and continue
 to rob the country blind. you are being just a little narrow, jumping on
 the 'hang clinton' bandwagon. i expected more from you teo. the whole
 damned system needs to be hanged. i, for one, would not rub elbows with
 republicrat scum, no matter what clinton did. and not that i am
 particularly for clinton either. if history does him any justice; bush
 will go down on history as one of the biggest criminal assholes to ever
 walk this planet, a free man. and there are plenty more like him. i want
 to see clinton hanged for his crimes but hang him for the real thing, not
 this made up, so-called case against him. and while we are at it, let's
 hang the whole system wherein the real criminals are not in jail but
 running and ruining, our lives from wash. dc.

 hang em all

 chris
  
Why expect more from me?  I agree with you wholeheartedly.  But it is unlikely
that we will get him for the big stuff so I say get him for what we can.  As
for there being plenty more of the republicans who are assholes and rich,
absolutely but nowhere do I say we should cozy up to them.  I think they are
all a bunch of assholes and I totally agree with you that it is the SYSTEM as
it operates (not as it was designed, perhaps) that needs to be changed.  Hang
them all?  Yes, absolutely!  I am NOT a republican, and DO NOT support
anything they do any more than I support anything the democrats do.  You are
right about one other thing too, when the republican fat cats pay you off you
stay bought or you die.  Simple equation.
Teo1000

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==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

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Om



Re: [CTRL] As Impeachment Looms, Clinton Seems In Denial (Reuters)

1998-12-19 Thread RoadsEnd

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/19/98 7:51:27 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Now as to Bush still being ringleader, I find that completely possible
in an overarching non-direct way, but he must be out of the loop in some of
what Clinton does in order for my theories about Clinton and China to be
true.

China is really where the Boodle Boys are quite well founded. Mao was taught
and was a teacher with SB, yale institutions in China. First and almost all
official liasons have been SB. Also follow the boys and the money.

A short quick lesson in econ.  A few efficent manufacturing plants running 24
hours a day can crank-out all the stuff the world will consume in most any
given commodity. Gee, where us most of that production now? In 'COMMUNIST'
China, The goods get paid for with 'money earnings', Assuming that China is
making a profit on all the goods they are selling to US, where is all this
money going to? Well, one is to the continued erosion of any US national
manufacturing expertise and capability. All paid for by US, slick trick, hunh.

The clinton / cosco etc. sideshow is to keep the 'dogs' at  'command' and
'rabid'.

What we are fed is not reality but some pap for us to react to.

Much better to have reactive patsies than active  corespondents. Then ya gota
deal with chess game and play has commenced.

My daddy said over thirty years ago. "The Vietnam War is about Drugs. There
are these secret societies behind it. Communism is all a SHAM. These same
secret societies are behind it all.  Right-on Pops.

Understand the ramifications of my daddy's words. And understand that he was
branch chief head of East asia for the CIA, and in OSS before that.

Billy is quite the junior to mister Bush. Look at the 1912 campaign and the
parallels. NAFTA/GATT instead of the FED, but a three party race to make sure
billy-boy the anointed one made it in , in a most believable way.
Accomplishment of approved tasks whilst  other ideas used as fodder for
partisianship, not citizen's welfare. MHO

Billy boy , Billy Boy, Billy Boy
Where is our charming Billy
Is he going to the well?
To catch a little hell
Or will he be gone 'ere the morrow?


Naw, he'll stay, 'they' like the tension and what it is doing to the guts and
the polarization, where or where wilt cometh the sparke?

Cynical yours,
Om
K
-

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Om



Re: [CTRL] As Impeachment Looms, Clinton Seems In Denial (Reuters)

1998-12-18 Thread RoadsEnd

 -Caveat Lector-

Hilary,
There are 55 Republicans in the Senate, it will take 66 votes to convict.
Conviction will not happen. Will there be a 'paralyzing' trial'?
I believe that a natural defense for any later criminal trial would be 'double
jeopardy'. I believe Clinton has stated that he would not except a pardon for
his 'alleged' crimes.

His ace? He knows whom he got his 'job' from? Tranquilzers, etc . . .?

Om
K

In a message dated 12/18/98 1:38:25 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Well this is interesting...  Correct me if I am wrong but, once it goes to a

vote and if he is impeached isn't there automatically a criminal trial?  I

understood that if he resigned and was pardoned then he wouldn't face a

trial.  So, if he "appears" unconcerned I have to ask, what Ace does he have

up his sleeve?



Hilary

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Re: [CTRL] As Impeachment Looms, Clinton Seems In Denial (Reuters)

1998-12-18 Thread RoadsEnd

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/18/98 2:22:19 PM, RoadsEnd wrote:

I believe Clinton has stated that he would not except a pardon for
his 'alleged' crimes.

Ok, I meant accept  --

I believe Clinton has stated that he would not accept a pardon for
his 'alleged' crimes.

Sorry,

Om
K

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] As Impeachment Looms, Clinton Seems In Denial (Reuters)

1998-12-18 Thread M. A. Johnson

 -Caveat Lector-

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There are 55 Republicans in the Senate, it will take 66
votes to convict.  Conviction will not happen. Will there
be a 'paralyzing' trial'? I believe that a natural defense
for any later criminal trial would be 'double jeopardy'. I
believe Clinton has stated that he would not except a pardon
for his 'alleged' crimes.

 His ace? He knows whom he got his 'job' from?
 Tranquilzers, etc . . .?
MJ:
Article I, Section 3, Clause 6:

... no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of
two thirds of the Members present.
^^^ ^^ ^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^

67 in the case of 100.

The Senate is NOT the House ... Clinton finds many Ds in opposition
to what he has done to THEIR party and its tradition.  It would NOT
be advisable to 'jump' so quickly.

Regard$,
--MJ

I am certain that nothing has done so much to
destroy the juridicial safeguards of individual
freedom as the striving after this mirage of social
justice.
-- Fredrich von Hayek,
   Economic Freedom and Representative Government; 1973

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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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