CS: Pol-Conservatives? Listening?
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Looks like I should email them back ask them to answer the question!!! EW -Original Message- Sent: 23 January 2001 17:05 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Believing in Britain Is it not time an updated(?)version of the Bill Of Rights 1689 was introduced, in full, in particular stating unequivocally the rights of the individual in all forms. For as we see at the moment, those people who do not know of their historic rights have had the "New Labour" government walk all over them in a tyrannical fashion. I have always been a Conservatve voter, though unless something along these lines IE Stating Our rights, I many other voters will withold our vote for any party which does not support these rights at the next Election Please consider this as there are literally millions of votes to be gained by a party that will support all the rights of the individual (that they were born with) Thanks Earl Williamson == Mr Hague has asked me to thank you for your recent e-mail and to reply on his behalf. He has carefully noted your comments. With the publication of Believing in Britain, we are taking the next step towards turning The Common Sense Revolution into a programme for Government, and your point is an important part or our manifesto. Britain has fantastic opportunities in the coming years. We could have prosperity on a scale unknown to any previous generation, with more people than ever before sharing in its benefits. We could have a healthier, better educated population than ever before in our history. We could have greater stability and stronger communities than for many years past. We could be a leading nation in a more peaceful, freer and more democratic world than it has ever been possible to achieve. The Conservative Party is ambitious for this country. We are determined that Britain will be first rate in every way. The key to a prosperous economy lies in keeping taxes down and reducing regulation and setting free the creative and hard working British people to succeed in the world economy. Opportunity has to be spread to all. Britain must be an open society in which success is possible for every hard working person whoever they are and wherever they come from. The key to a strong and stable society is to trust local communities and institutions. We must hand back power to the local school and to parents. We must hand power to patients and reduce day-to-day interference by politicians in the health service. We must encourage churches and voluntary bodies to help the vulnerable. We must support the struggling family trying to stick together. We must let local communities protect their own environment and identity. The Conservative Party wants to make Britain the best place in the world to do business - put our country at the head of those embracing the new economy, at the centre of a free trading world, make it a fitting home for all who want to get ahead, to create, to excel. We want to make Britain the best place in the world to live - rebuild our cities, reform our public services, revitalise our communities. We want to make Britain one of the most admired and respected countries in the world - help shape a new Europe, help shape a better world. Britain needs a Common Sense Revolution. The next Conservative government will concentrate on the right priorities, creating an enterprising society and quality public services. It will be a government that delivers more and taxes less. The next Conservative government will support the rule of law. The next Conservative government will defend the independence and integrity of our nation. The Conservative Party has listened and learnt. Now we want the chance to deliver. Thank you again for writing. Yours sincerely, Ian Philps Correspondence Secretary -- Oh well, as Jeff Cooper said, "Common sense is the faculty that tells us the Earth is flat." They haven't even read the question. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-One Organisation
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] What I'd like to do is to make it a lot easier to get a few shots at all kinds of guns at the four main annual shooting shows in the UK. Otherwise shooting anything but what you own tends to be difficult. I can't see why silenced shotguns couldn't be tried out at the main event and not miles away, for example. I think that would help a lot to broaden people's experience and hopefully from that they would be less inclined to backstab. I'm mystified why all four main UK gun shows HAVE to be in the Midlands - you'd think they'd have the sense to spread them up and down the country to London and Manchester at least. I'm also totally mystified why anything but game is being sold as food at the shows. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- Presumably it's because of the location of the convention or whatever in relation to where the shooting grounds are. I can't think of many places in the midlands where you can shoot all types of guns, Worcester Norton Gun Club and Minsterley Ranges is about it. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-One Organisation
From: John Howat/Wellington Sporting Arms Co Ltd, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The question of one shooting organisation has been discussed before and much as the idea appears attractive, I fear that it would not work because of a large variety of interests and, especially, because of disinterest of one segment of shooters in activities and needs of another. Personally I believe that sports shooting organisations would ALL benefit if they formed a single organisation to represent them ALL in matters relating to FIREARMS LAW. Nothing to do with shooting styles, likes or dislikes - simply promote the current law and try to slowly turn the clock back to pre-Dunblane laws. Such an organisation needs to be "responsible and responsive" and not radical. It also needs to 'meet and greet' as many MPs as possible AND as often as possible. Cheers John Howat -- Good point. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Churchill and Pistols
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] In Palmer's Index to The Times 1790-1905, a CD-ROM to accompany the Times microfilms at Manchester Central Reference Library, it gives the references to "Pistols Bill" (not a nickname, boringly!) as starting at 25 July 1893 and ending (with the passing of the Bill as an Act) on 5 August 1903. A ten-year effort. My uncle's comment was that there were forces in Parliament at the time trying to get enforcement of the law in the UK out of the hands of local magistrates and into the hands of the central government via the expansion of police forces. That was because the Prime Minister had extensive interests in mining and some of the local magistrates enforced the mining health and safety regulations and stopped the mine-owners engaging in thuggery when dealing with their employees. The idea of putting restrictions on pistols was to make people less able to defend themselves and thus to make them more dependent on the police forces and the central government. I'm unsure why you'd blame Churchill for this, he was born in 1874, which would make him 19 when the first anti-pistols efforts began. The real question is why is there any crime at all. The answer is that the police and government prey on us instead of working for us doing a reasonable job of social administration. Their repeatedly demonstrated incompetence is proclaimed as "proof" that more of their efforts are needed when the truth is they should be sacked for them. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- Okay, I'll say it again, Churchill was Home Secretary when the Pistols Bill 1911 was conceived, undoubtedly he had something to do with it. The Pistols Act 1903 was a very modest measure and neither Richard or I said Churchill was responsible for the first effort. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Haiku
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED] To write a poem in seventeen syllables is very diffi Quite probably so, in a short little span is quite iffy But then English, more complex to speak, is more spiffy! - Not less not more but Seventeen true required. It needs to be right. --snip-- Leave it to a Brit To show up a Yank with wit, And titter a bit! -- =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it. - Thomas Jefferson =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= ET Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-.50
From: "Richard Loweth", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I personally do not think that anybody should be allowed to own any gun of a type that I personally do not shoot. And those should be strictly licensed. Furthermore no-one has any use of military and police type weapons such as pistols, carbines or large magazine rifles. If people want to shoot these sort of things then they should go and join the Army! -- Okay, enough sarcasm for one day ;-) Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-Cats the worst killers
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In response to recent postings on this subject, I though I might add that; during my police training we were taught that you had to report accidents to the police involving livestock and dogs, because they were property, whereas, cats were not considered to be property. Given the nature of cats this is understandable as they appear to own the owner, as it were, and not the other way around as in dogs, where a dog show absolute loyalty to its master. Cats were also considered vermin. Regards, Paul Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-MIB's
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tony Whiting is smack on the money when it comes to _boys in blue_ aspiring to being _boys in black_. The only comment I would like to add is ... it's about time someone told them that black is definitely not the colour for their purpose ... it stands out a mile ... now grey is a much more appropriate choice. Black does not occur in the natural environment, grey on the other hand does and _blends_ to a far greater degree. Despite it's practicality grey will doubtless never catch on ... the _men in grey suits_ just doesn't have that certain ring about it and won't cut it in those vital areas of _street cred_ and machismo !!! Regards, Paul -- Wasn't it the SAS who came up with this in the '70s? The idea is to intimidate the opponent. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Desperate Dan
From: RustyBullethole, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Guess who still has his handgun, no concealed carry permit mind you, just slung on his hip for all to see. Desperate Dan of course, that childrens favourite for half a century is openly flouting the British governments handgun ban. Of course the location of Dan's adventures seem to vary from issue to issue, from the wild west to Scotland, Dan's trusty side arm never leaves his side. My daughter has started reading the Dandy, an old family tradition. The happy time spent guiding her through the wonderful stories are sometimes dashed, my lip quivering whenever she asks the question "daddy what's that brown pouch thing on Dan's belt". Not wishing to burden a child with the futile details of the handgun ban I suggest we move on to Beryl the Peril. Tooled up as he is, try as he might, Desperate Dan cannot escape from the political correctness brigade - in the current issue Dan goes to buy some new boots, only to be offered ones made from "imitation elephant hide". Any of the older Dandy readers out there know what kind of pistol Dan packs? - despite his size, my guess is an ivory handled, nickel plated, .32 SW. I've already asked the publishers the same question, also whether Dan has ever drawn his trusty pistol and in which issue - I'll post the reply. Rusty Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-The March : Slogans
From: RustyBullethole, [EMAIL PROTECTED] A placard with a picture of a pistol and the words "Gold for winning - Jail for practising" It was posted on cybershooters some while ago, don't know by who though. Rusty -- That's a good one. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-free targets - well almost
From: RustyBullethole, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The shooters supply company midway have a couple of nice (free) targets in .PDF format that you can download and print on the office laser printer. They are tiny, only 17kb and 15kb, so don't take any time at all to download. The 4 up rifle target is great if you have access to an A3 laser. http://www.midwayusa.com/pdf/rifle_target.pdf http://www.midwayusa.com/pdf/pistol_target.pdf Rusty -- I have the 300m ISSF target reduced for 100m knocking around somewhere in my files. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Letter to the Editor.
From: David Mack, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8th February 2001 The Editor, Liverpool Echo. Re: GUN LAW. Armed Police Aim To Halt City Shootings. Dear Sir, I was shocked to read of the violence afflicting the once fair city of Liverpool and the proliferation of guns in the hands of criminals necessitating the setting up of armed police patrols. Is it not high time that the Police and the Government take stern action to remove the menace of handguns from the streets of Britain? I suggest that the only way to combat this menace is a total ban on the possession of handguns by all civilians and an immediate programme to confiscate all handguns. We can expect howls of protest from the many lawful shooters in Britain who indulge in pistol shooting and, of course, it will mean that we will no longer be competitive in Olympic and Commonwealth Pistol shooting, a sport at which we have traditionally excelled. However, we must be seen to be doing something. Removing all the handguns from street will, fortunately, be a very easy option for the Government and Police because we have a comprehensive register of all handguns and in the final analysis if it saves just one life it will be worth it. I do hope you will find space in your estimable newspaper to print my letter, I feel sure that my suggestion is very sound and will meet with the approval of all those who are desirous of a safer society. Yours faithfully, -- And they'll probably print it! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-The March : Slogans
From: "bob blake", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I do wish we could get away from the use of the word Handgun, they are Pistols. Bob Blake Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Winston Churchill....
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Isn't it a bit harsh to claim that winnie was the first to introduce gun control just because you had to give 'reasonable' proof that you were a homeowner ?. After all the 1903 Act hardly brought in tons of new laws did it ?. -- --snip-- Oddly enough in my research I found evidence that the Pistols Bill 1911 was based partly on the New York Pistol Act 1911, and subsequently the Firearms Act 1920 was based partly on the 1911 Bill, so in fact our gun laws are based on American gun laws, how's that for irony? Steve. Steve, James, At the expense of using the 'C' word (conspiracy), allow me to infer that it would appear that there were like minded people of both our nations who had and idea and were bent on expressing it. Tenuous connections are the hardest to confirm as having reliable association to related events, especially when there appears no written record to validate the suspicions -- at least no written record that we might be privy to. Laws of one nation, are seldom copied by other nations, unless there is more than a passing interest. I find it very interesting that Canadian Brit laws were copied from US laws, at about the same time, I find it even more interesting, that NAZI law was codified into US law. This isn't simply a matter of what works getting onto the law books of other nations, but rather, what is viewed as what is passable in the political sense. As an exercise here, I might ask (to test the validity of the premise of conspiracy) just what other aspects of US law were as well codified into either Brit or Canadian law. If it is only the firearms laws that were copied, then I will assert that there was more than a tenuous connection, and look for a likely 'vector' which promoted the idea in the respective nations. From my vantage point, someone, or a party of them, were very well informed of English Law, and American Law. They used their knowledge of that body of law to formulate law that would pass the 'slippery slope' test, and be used to build upon later. There is way too much here that cannot be tossed to chance. Our respective corpus juris is way too similar, and that's the tie-in that allows one set of laws to be related to the other. My two coppers worth. -- =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it. - Thomas Jefferson =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= ET -- I don't think it was a conspiracy per se, from reading the archives of the New York Times and various other old newspapers I got the impression that in the early 20th century it was fairly common for Americans to copy our laws and vice versa, simply because we had more in common in terms of language. I found references to Home Office officials visiting New York prior to World War One, the paper said the officials had meetings with the New York City Police Dept. to discuss more effective ways of fighting crime and so on. One article I found did mention a discussion about the regulation of the "trade in pistols" or something like that. I think it is a reasonable assumption the Home Office came away with a copy of the New York Pistol Act from that meeting. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
