CS: Legal-McMurdo
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Proximity is the stumbling block we face with prosecuting McMurdo. Under Scottish law only victims and their families of what happened can sue CSP and McMurdo. The only case we can bring against CSP directly is failing to licence Hamilton in accordance with the European Weapons Directive. That is an European Court of Justice matter that can only be brought by direct action in the ECJ or by the European Parliament against the UK for failing in its duties to administer the Weapons Directive. As regards the ideal of getting any money from shooters - Earl you live in wonderland. I struggled on income support while legally fighting the 1997 Act almost single handedly. Of all the people who gave I managed to raise 15,000 over the course of ten months all of which was spent in legal fees and opinions. The majority of that came from UKPSA reserves. The only people who actually gave anything were people on this list with a very few exceptions. I even received two cheques from one chap who had one for the fund and one for me personally with a post it note attached saying "Your doing excellent work so heres a little something so you don't starve." if there was ever a truism that was it. The majority of shooters who got the 1997 Act deserved every bit of it. They are tight fisted, mean apologists who discarded pistol shooting like an old set of golf clubs. We have too many associations who won't talk to each other they have useless PR and communicative skills. The organisations are divisive, duplicitous and arrogant in the extreme in preserving their own little empires. Unless UK shooters can cohesively committ themselves to defending their choice of gun ownership by every available avenue and with all their ability we are doomed. That is why I pulled out of public campaigning in 1998 after 10 years of it so I didn't burn out. Yes there are many things we can do about all of the situations that face us but we need an annual budget of at least 1,000,000 to spend on a legal team to do anything about it. Yes if everyone gave a pound that would be OK, but they won't and they are too lazy to do anything themselves. The average UK shooter is so used to abdicating responsibilty for everything its too much of an effort to pay someone else to rock the boat. How many people do you suppose subscribe to this list, bicker about a particular subject ad nauseam and then do nothing about it. I'd venture its close to 95%. Best Regards Guy Savage Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Stop or I'll chant!
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] IG you are as socially inept as you are legally. First of all, most people in this country would feel a great deal happier with the ability to make their own choices about self-defence. Some people would choose to use a firearm for this purpose, others would choose not to and you or anybody else has no right to dictate from their ivory tower who could or should use what. It is ironic in fact that you are issued handcuffs, a baton and gas for your own protection ANYWHERE while we have nothing, and dare we use any or carry any of those items we would get arrested by YOU for doing so. The core constraints allowing the lawful use of deadly force on another person(s)is if that other person(s): Has the ABILITY to kill or cause grave bodily injury to the victim Has the OPPORTUNITY to kill or cause grave bodily injury to the victim That the victim is in immediate JEOPARDY of being killed or suffering grave bodily injury at the hands of that other person(s) Other variances of this core is if the same A.O.J. criteria affect someone else one can use deadly force in their defence. In defining Ability a disparity of force argument is applicable. EG Armed woman v's unarmed man is OK as there is a recognised physical disparity between the genders. The same applys to armed disabled person v's able bodied predator or an armed victim v's multiple unarmed assailants. If one of the A.O.J. critera isn't fully met in the reality of the circumstances it falls to the recognition of the situation as it unfolded and the 'reasonable man' test of beleifs. Finally there falls another test between that of Justifiable Homicide and Excusable Homicide. The latter being that lethal force was not required in the circumstances but it was an excusable response at the time. Terror, poor light, chainfire, poor weapon choice and use. Whilst this is not a comprehensive overview of the 'self-defence' defence it is the core of it and it remains common law, not statute and is for a Jury to decide upon the facts. My belief is that a firearm is an eminently suitable tool for self defence but it should be used as part of a layered defensive strategy that might well involve retreat and non lethal and less than lethal weapons escalating to the firearm. The firearm when used in these circumstances is rarely fired but in the minority of deadly force encounters using a firearm, perpetrators get shot and some die. Making the choice to use deadly force is never easy and sometimes it may not be the right choice to have made. However, criminal predators have a choice about their actions whether petty or violent. My belief and that of 90%of the population is that when somone chooses to invade your house, mug you in the street, sexually assault you or a loved one, they have abdicated most of their rights to protection under the law and deserve what is meeted out to them. Poor burglars, car thieves, street robbers and vandals, sure some might end up getting killed for their actions but you can bet that EVERY criminal would begin to think twice about doing the crime if the 'time' meant potential death from their victim. Self defence is common law and is no different here than in the US with the exception that Statute in the US helps to define rights of virtually everyone to be armed for their defence. In addtion sensible measures like 'Castle Law' such as that in Florida and New Hampshire means that even if a scabby burglar out to steal your TV is caught in your home you are legally permitted to use deadly force to protect your property. The burglary rate in New Hampshire is virtually zero. If self defence is a non starter for you IG, give up your baton, gas, cuffs and radio you wear out on patrol. When trouble comes for you, you'll be empty handed and alone with no prospect of salvation. Then and only then you might realise what being a victim is like and what everyone else out there suffers for needlessly, because of cowards like you. The truth is you trust nobody else with the same powers you have and use at will, whay are you any better than anyone else - and don't say training. The infantile training Police get compared to real instruction is appalling. This country would be a far better place if the citizenry were able to choose and deploy their own defensive measures, if we had 'Castle Law' and if we halved the numbers of Police officers. New Hampshire doesn't need it so why do we? Guy Savage -- One correction, the law in Florida does not ever entitle you to use deadly force to protect property. If someone enters your home and threatens you, you are permitted to use deadly force to stop them, but you cannot use deadly force outside the home unless you cannot retreat or if so doing would be inadvisable. There is a FAQ about it on the Florida Dept. of State website. (Yes they do other things than just certifying elections!) One of the examples they provide is a court case in which a man was threatened on his
CS: Legal-miniature rifle ranges
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Generally speaking the Gallery Club should have its own seprating legal entity and exclusive shooting days or times at a given range or venue. As a dealer, I would generally only sell equipment under Sec 11 exemption with the provision of a written purchase order, copy of the club's constitution and a club cheque for payment. The Club constitution is easy to draft HSBC have a good skeleton in their Clubs and Societies bank account leaflet. Banking facilites are genrally free to clubs from most banks. Such purchases being exempt, can be transacted by mail order but a notification of sale or transfer and acquisition is still required to be sent to the Police in the club's jursidiction. Peter Jackson knows what a miniature rifle round's maximum dimensions are, but generally speaking .22 rimfire is the only common round that fits that description. Guy Savage Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-It's cheaper in the USA/Europe/anywhere
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In response to all of these postings regarding price and direct imports, it never ceases to amaze me about the greed of the UK wholesalers and the grommet like qualities of the average UK FAC or SGC holder. I have been in the trade for 15 years and the main reason guns and accessories are so expensive here is because when you deal with a factory as their agent you have to buy items in quantity as well as contract to buy so many per year or season. When you have laid out $50,000 - $100,000 for stock you desperately need a fast return on your outlay hence the prices do become inflated. I do business with both factories, wholesalers and retailers and I can tell you there is very little difference in price. The mail order retailers are usually product distributors and tend to charge ony a fraction above dealer pricing. The discount structure is supposed to be distributor, dealer , retail. When you buy a scope from a discount vendor you are paying probably the same we would pay at dealer rate. We then have to import the item pay duty, shipping, VAT and then we have to make a profit to feed our families, pay for our business expenses, rent, rates, phone/fax, insurance etc. We also often have to pay anywhere between 5 an 10% in fees to an exporter to handle the documentation in the US. I cannot deny you will often find equivalent or identical goods cheaper in other parts of the world because they have far lower costs of living and far higher turnover rates on stock. Goods here are more expensive because of that reality. If you value the existence of quality firearms retailing I am afraid you have to accept that reality and pay the going rate for those goods. I have about L200,000 worth of stock, mostly straight-pull rifles, parts and accessories at the moment I could get a 50-70% p.a. yield if I put that money in financial investments. I don't do this job for the money, I barely make a net profit at the end of the year, I do it because building guns is who I am and shooting is a part of my life. If you want a shooting future that has spotty ignoramuses in Halfords serving you WD40 as 'gun lubricant' and who asks you questions like "No I haven't any .22" pellets for your airgun , will .177" do?!" you will get the gun trade you deserve through your own actions. It seem that shooters know only the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Do you really think a Big Mac, fries and a Coke is good value at L2.88 when it only costs about 48p to produce? Guy Savage -- Ah yes, but we have to pay for straight-pull rifles because GB is basically the only place where they are sold with a few exceptions! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Steel cored bullets
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steel bullets do shorten barrel life, although it depends on how hard the bullet is and how thick the jacket is. They are also lighter than lead so they can be affected more by the wind. Rubbish. Steel cored bullets still have a lead ogive around the core as well as the copper jacket. The material in the core doesn't affect barrel life one jot. The purpose of the core is to increase the length of the bullet without adding too much weight. This is to match the length and weight of the matching tracer ammo to give equivalent impact points. Even with some Russian ammo which does use bimetal jackets, a steel jacket with a thick coating of copper plated to it, barrel wear is not usually a problem. The fact that most rifle barrels are hard chrome plated with a surface hardness around 75 Rockwell C and unplated barrels run between 35-45 RC, it'll take a lot of use before any wear emerges. Steel cored bullets can be less accurate if the ogive isn't the reliably same weight and centrally positioned inside the bullet. Guy Savage -- I've used some dodgy military surplus ammo that was steel cored, that stuff would wreck the barrel, IMO. I think it was Chinese. And most rifle barrels are not hard chrome plated! Not in your typical sporting rifle at any rate. It depends on the hardness of the steel. I've shot thousands and thousands of rounds of Geco 9mm which has mild steel jackets with no ill effects. I'd be wary about using any military surplus AP ammo in a sporting rifle though. The Chinese steel-cored 7.62x39 had a reputation for wrecking SKS barrels in short order. I think what you're talking about is current military issue stuff, which I agree is nothing to worry about really, but the term "steel-cored" covers a lot of territory! Obviously if you have a bullet with lead and copper wrapped around a steel core barrel life will be unaffected. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-police guns
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He also said in an article in Combat Handguns that a Beretta 92FS with a ten inch ported barrel and 20-round magazine was the perfect "home defence" gun which sounds a bit contradictory to me. Steve, It's a 6" ported BarSto Barrel on a custom Beretta 96, 20 rd mag and Surefire Tactical Light, I played with it when I stayed with Mas in December 1996. It is vastly superior to an MP5 for use in Home Defence. Guy -- Well he's changed it then because this article was before the Beretta 96 and STL came out. At any rate it's still contradictory to recommend something and then not follow your own advice. I also have to say that the only way to get a Beretta 96 to shoot worth a damn is to put a BarSto or Jarvis barrel in it, Mas must have had the same experience! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-police guns
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Police strated carrying guns at airports in the late eighties in response to a terrorist bloodbath shootout in Athens and interception of an IRA cell with similar intentions. Whilst their presence and equipment are often perceived as OTT they do a valuable job. They regularly facilitate the movement of guns with travellers through the Airport which generally saves you from getting a thorough baggage search when you arrive back - they are only concerned about the guns which helps you with your real problem of all the other stuff you bought abroad in excess of your duty free limit. This is worth every penny of their salary. Next, they disarm sky marshalls airside, so those untrustworthy characters from ELAL ans SwissAir aren't trolling around Blighty tooled up, they do get them back when they leave though. Finally they keep a thriving trade going in the latest 'Gucci' equipment designed to do a completely different job. They support an important market for black ballistic nylon, substandard unwearable body armour and ballistically neutered ammo. As a result they have little to no money to spend on good holsters and weapon retention training - because it will never happen to them, of course. Guy Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Commonwealth Games
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] You are all missing the point about how valuable this situation is to us. First of all, it is the duty of every FAC holder to do what they can to own the guns they wish to own for lawful purposes. If that means you have to become a race starter, vet, hunter, collector or whatever to own a pistol on exemption, that is what you must do rather than complain about the situation. It is all very well to complain about how bad things are because of the bans and why should the British Team get special treatment. The answer is simple: The British shooting team have demonstrated a good reason for obtaining an authority from the Secretary of State to possess prohibited weapons - for competition. The current position for having a Section 5 has always been restricted to some business, military, police or heritage purpose since the Home Office took it over in the sixties. The granting of an authority for competition is breaking new ground. Not only should the lucky recipients use it and compete, they would be lawfully entitled to have their expiration and subsequent refusal to renew Judicially Reviewed. This would result in a precedent being set for the grant of Section 5 authorities for training and competition purposes which would deservedly weaken the underlying excuse for the ban in the first place. It would be better still if they actually won. Do not forget Justice For Shooters have cases running in both the ECHR and the ECJ with a 70% chance of having both the 1997 and 1988 bans struck down. Sulking about the situation will acheive nothing, supporting our competitors and helping them to help us all, is infinitely more beneficial. Guy Savage Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Blank guns for Aliens
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Aliens Pulse rifles were fully operational Thompson M1s using vicious .45ACP blanks made by BMS who then became Perdix. It was unusual because I sourced the blanks for the guns for Bapty's when I worked at Conjay. I then went to work for Bapty's, then I got to use their kit. The pulse rifle actually doesn't have a very high cylic, the Foley artists speeded up the report and modified its signature for the soundtrack. The weapon is a veritable flame thrower so you don't realise the slow rate of fire. Guy Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Izhmash Products
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sabre Defence Industries Ltd is the official distributor for all Izhmash products in the UK. Cotswold Arms has been grey importing various Izhmash products from Kalashnikov USA which is owned on a majority shareholding by Izhmash. It has been the case that Kalashnikov USA has been contravening our distribution agreements unbeknownst to the factory and this issue has recently been taken up with the factory's Director. Any Izhmash product purchased from Cotswold Arms Co is considerably more expensive than through official channels, in the case of the shotguns we have seen, they have been modified from previously prohibited versions and may well be considered a Section 5 downgrade and thus still prohibited. Furthermore we will not able to offer any free warranty work claims or defects for these grey imports. We do not supply Cotswold Arms with any Izhmash products. Just a quick value comparison, our retail price for the Junker is L225 inc VAT, Cotwold wants L279 inc VAT. We also have in stock quantities of the AK74M deac with all moving parts (Police Approved), the factory legal version of the box fed Saiga 12 shotgun and huge stocks of the Saiga M3-EXP-01 manually operated AK47 complete with synthetic furniture, side folding stock, AK74 muzzle brake, 2 30 shot mags, cleaning kit and manual in 7.62x39mm for just L495 as displayed at the Phoenix. Guy Savage DIRECTOR - SABRE DEFENCE INDUSTRIES LTD Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
