CS: Pol-Dump the Pump
From: Jeremy Peter Howells, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now Tuesday evening at 10:30 pm and here in South Wales - mid way between Cardiff and Swansea - there is no fuel at all and there hasn't been for 24 hours. Same is true of Cardiff, Swansea and the valleys. Bread and milk has also run out in many areas as people hav ebeen panic buying. Radio 4 news just carried a report that 5 tankers left the Purfleet depot in Essex - with a police officer in each cab alongside the driver and multiple police cars front and back. Not an average fuel run and at a level of escort that could simply not be maintained by the police for normal deliveries! News from the rest of the country is mixed with nothing leaving other refineries and depots yet. Strange that the first deliveries out are in an area not hit hard yet - the South East/London. Or is this no coincidence given the location of the Government? Regards Jerry -- I thought the emergency order was simply to allow Tony to jump to the front of the queue! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Dump the Pump
From: "Neil Francis", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I will gladly put up with the whole list of "minor discomforts" that you mention, Minor now - as I say lets see how the people fare when the food runs out on Tesco's shelves. We are already having the 'for the sake of the children/disabled/sick/elderly' arguments thrown around because of this dispute. Neal, for an opportunity to teach the politicians a lesson that, even when they are the elected government, they do not have a mandate to do what they like for five years - only a mandate to deliver what they promised in the manifesto and an increased taxation was not one of the "promises"! They do - thats the system we are all happy to sign up to be able to carry on with our lives. The manifesto is a high level blueprint - the low level detail of running the system is left to your elected government. If you don't like it kick em out next time round. Steve has been rattling on about basic taxation theories all along this thread. If anybody could not work out that less direct taxation did not equal more indirect taxation to balance a countries budget and provide the services we all demand then they want to go take some basic maths lessons. It may seem unfair that specific indirect tax is seemingly piled into specific areas but wherever you put it you are going to piss someone off. As for the statement that "things should be done by peaceful protests", our protest marches were peaceful and look where that got us! Exactly the point I made in my 'Irony' reply further up the thread. I agree with you that shooters tactics have indeed got them nowhere. The irony referred to is that after two complete bans in the space of a decade we still have the same people effectively running UK shooting now as then. You know the response received when a suggestion was made to remove one of these people. So why do shooters so eagerly support the direct action of truckers whilst not even having the stomach to take any equivalent action in the privacy and safety of their own domain? There is an old saying, derogatory in nature, - 'If you can't do - teach'. It seems we have something similar here - 'If you can't do - support'. I am looking forward to this "situation" developing nicely into a General Strike, followed by General Election, so we better give an unmistakable message to the Tories that they better watch their step Am I reading this right - you _actualy_ think the Tories will be voted back in at the next election? Neil Francis Trowbridge, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No, but Labour have a huge majority and that doesn't help as they can get anything through they want. The point about taxation is that I did not feel that put out with the 24% level, and I don't think it was a major issue. It was just a popularity stunt to lower it to 23%. By so doing the Government have made a major issue out of fuel tax, which could have been left as it was if income tax had remained at 24%. But then the budget would have been boring and Gordon Brown would not have been such a popular chap. You can't buy friends, especially with their own money. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Dump the Pump
From: Jeremy Peter Howells, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think you'll find our direct taxes are high compared to the EU as a whole, while we also pay very high indirect taxes by having one of the highest VAT rates in Europe. Regards Jerry -- We don't have one of the highest VAT rates in the EU, I think only Germany has a lower rate. France and Belgium have higher rates of VAT, but they have much lower rates of excise tax. 23% income tax is one of the lowest in the EU (probably the lowest) but it's not that clear cut as some of the other EU states have lower tax bands for poorer people. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Dump the Pump
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For what it's worth, exactly what I believe, too. Today, Blair has realised that he is not a golden boy; that he can forget the polls and the politicial pundits. The guy is an authoritarian, leaning towards a fascist. This past few days he must've felt he has an uncertain future. When it comes to the Election, most people will attach blame for all this to him, not the farmers or the hauliers. My grown up children, thinking only of themselves, today attacked me for supporting the fuel blockades. I told them that if that continue to think only of themselves, the likes of Blair and Brown, will treat them like slaves when they're my age. My wife told them they have grown up not knowing of the three-day week, telly off at ten at night, the interference in their lives of national action. She's right. Until the young people of today are politicised, the sleazy conmen of modern politics will continue to have their way. (By the way, interesting stuff in the Sunday papers about Blair and Brown and gay MAFF Minister Nick Brown and his part in the jealousies and quarrels between Gordon Brown and Blair and Mo Mowlam. What a buggers' muddle! I'm, sure Tony is an Oscar Wilde--ie, but married with children.) Barry Woodward -- Well I'm not that old and I can remember the power cuts in 1973. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Dump the Pump
From: "Neil Francis", [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have been let down by the "democractic" system, so have truckers, and just like us they are protesting. Where is the irony in that? The irony I was referring to is the full support shooters here are giving to the truckers, farmers etc for their direct action whilst completely bottling any direct action themselves back in 97 and 87. Rather than direct action at these times it was the more traditional methods that were, and still are, promoted. Truckers and farmers are _not_ protesting just like us. There are no direct protests taking place in the shooting world and never have been. Shooters haven't even got rid of the useless oafs running the organizations that shafted us thru incompetence and collusion *twice* in the space of a decade. And furthermore when somebody did suggest it may be a good idea to do this there were more apologists appearing than we have pissed off truckers now. Neil Francis Trowbridge, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- The basic reason we didn't do what the truckers are doing is because (a) we have GUNS, and I can guarantee that the police would not take a softly, softly approach like they are with the haulers and (b) we have nothing so easy to blockade. And we did have direct protests, I seem to remember going to several of them, even the BSSC had a rather large one let alone the SAGBNI. The problem is that those protests didn't intrude into daily life like a blockade of refineries does, so hardly anyone noticed. The drivel coming from the Government is also transparent nonsense as with the handgun ban. Did I really hear Tony Blair at a press conference saying the reason for the rise in the petrol tax was because of a budget shortfall? So why did they lower income tax? This is not rocket science. We have the lowest income taxes in the EU and the highest rate of indirect taxation. The solution is to raise the former and lower the latter. A first-year economics student can work that one out but they don't have to worry about re-election. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Dump the Pump
From: "Alex Hamilton", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oh how nice - a party to celebrate the country being brought to its knees. How jovial everybody seems to be that the 'country' may be brought to it's knees because few there will be no fuel in a few days time - even to the extent that someone is pissed of that their car runs on a fuel that is _not_ running out so can't be part of the party. I suppose its OK as long as its just the country and not me or you. Lets see how jovial we all are when the weekly run to Tesco's can't be done or the local curry house can't deliver the madras just ordered or we can't get the kids to school or can't get to the club's autumn shoot at Bisley, Sealand or Altcaretc., etc., _ I will gladly put up with the whole list of "minor discomforts" that you mention, Neal, for an opportunity to teach the politicians a lesson that, even when they are the elected government, they do not have a mandate to do what they like for five years - only a mandate to deliver what they promised in the manifesto and an increased taxation was not one of the "promises"! Calling on police to remove the blockade is an insult to us all, because the police are our servants and not Blair's and they must not be used as government policy enforcers. A government is elected for five years to govern with the peoples consent - the sovereignty is with us and they better remember that! As for the statement that "things should be done by peaceful protests", our protest marches were peaceful and look where that got us! I am looking forward to this "situation" developing nicely into a General Strike, followed by General Election, so we better give an unmistakable message to the Tories that they better watch their step too. Alex Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Dump the Pump
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ever heard of democracy boys - the ballot box and the pen? Yes, Neil, I've heard of both and it was the same democracy that stole my property, called my friends and I despicable names and then laughed in my face when I protested. A democracy without protection of minority rights is at best an elective dictatorship subject once in a while to mob rule. Both political parties in this Country have promised the impossible: a high level of services in a welfare state matched with low taxation. The problem is that you only get what you pay for, or in the instance causing these dispute one section of the community only gets what another pays for. The people protesting are like us, they have been effectively disenfranchised by having no support from either party with no way of making their voice heard. At that point democracy sort of loses its charm and direct action is their only recourse. At for exactly the same reason, at the age of 48, for the first time in my life, I started going on the shooter's protest marches. Kenneth Pantling Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny. (Edmund Burkeá1729-97) Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Dump the Pump
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I suppose its OK as long as its just the country and not me or you. Lets see how jovial we all are when the weekly run to Tesco's can't be done or the local curry house can't deliver the madras just ordered or we can't get the kids to school or can't get to the club's autumn shoot at Bisley, Sealand or Altcar. Lets see how happy when we can't even get the kids to school or can't even get into work - all of this in our 4x4 9MPG off road 4 ton 'essential' vehicles of course. And lets not even think about the local refuse collectors not being able to collect the rubbish. It started costing me money by Monday midday. I then had no fuel in my van which meant, as a self-employed person, no work no money. I have been unable to fill up since, there is no petrol available in Liverpool and the local radio station has stopped giving out info on which stations have any as there are none. My essential van is a Sooty box, less than 1000cc and to small for the job but I can't afford to run a transit This also means that I have been walking the kids to and from school (three times a day as my son is on half days in reception class). Do I support the action? Yes I do and I don't need some fatuous smartarse sniping from the sidelines and putting me in some pigeon hole convienient to his arguement. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Dump the Pump
From: "Nicholas Jones", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Near Wrexham, the Rhos Esso station is nearly dry. The Texaco 2 miles away only had LRP (fortunately, my f**ked Maestro uses this!). My sister in Bourne, Lincs, reports that their Esso is dry of everything. Travelling back from Abersoch to Wrexham (80 miles along North Wales) all open petrol stations had large queues. All details correct as of Sunday evening. Will Tony Blair capitulate? If he does, he'll be seen as weak which will do his election chances no good at all (e.g. Heath and the 3 day week). Any fuel tax cut will have to be balanced elsewhere. Nik Jones Wrexham, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- It took me half an hour to get out the driveway this morning, unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) I live next to a petrol station. First time in my life I have wished for a 1973 VW Beetle that runs on leaded! There were abandoned cars on forecourts on the way home, one guy ran dry while sitting in front of me at the roundabout. I can't wait to hear how they're going to spin this one. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Dump the Pump
From: "pendrous", [EMAIL PROTECTED] By Terry Pendrous, Yes, I am sure your right Steve. More than a few Labour MP's will be shown the door next year. What worries me are the alternative. I for one will never forget those treacherous so and so's in the TORY party either. The Liberals are all things to all, until they get a taste of power, and only then does one find out what they are about. Like I said before, doesn't leave much else does it, for also one must NEVER forget that bureaucratic machine that lurks behind all of them. How do we get rid of them? for much of our woes can be attributed to their efforts. All their protestations about doing the bidding of the Politicians doesn't wash!!! especially the Judiciary part of it. Hmmm sounds like a Party Political Broadcast doesn't it? Sorry about that, but one must never take ones eye off the ball, and those people have much to answer for, and not just over our former sport. -- The Liberals are doomed IMO, they have too closely associated themselves with Labour so I suspect most voters are thinking why not just vote for the real thing or the real alternative? I reckon they will lose at least 50% of their seats at the next election. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Dump the Pump
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve, Well finally it looks like the British public MIGHT be willing to stand up for themselves. Following the disaster of dump the pump, it takes farmers and lorry drivers to pave the way! I say go for it I hope it brings the country to its knees. Having been shafted by this government once I do not wish to be again! I for one took part in dump the pump and will take part in any convoys in Cornwall. Despite what the news say's there are petrol stations throughout the country running dry. To get a clear picture perhaps it would be a good idea for your writers to write in if any petrol stations around them have run dry. Regards Tina -- Actually I'm more interested to see what effect this has on the Government. Gordon Brown seems to be completely out of touch with public sentiment. I just cannot understand how this halfwit can defend fuel taxes by saying that this Government is responsible for the lowest increase in taxes! Oh thank you, oh master, Sheriff Brown of Nuttingham. I keep thinking this Government's most grievous error in terms of making the public angry was reducing the income tax rate to such a low level that they have to raise taxes on booze, cigarettes and fuel to extortionate levels. It's totally absurd, because indirect taxes hit the poor the worst, so if you live on income support, the Govt. gives with one hand and takes with the other. Totally potty. It also hits public services as they have to pay indirect taxes as well, all it does is keep VAT inspectors employed. Anyway, look on the bright side, a lot of Labour MPs are going to get turfed out next year. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
