Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
On Monday, August 27, 2001, at 12:56 PM, Tim May wrote: On Monday, August 27, 2001, at 12:40 PM, Nomen Nescio wrote: Freedom fighters in communist-controlled regimes. How much money do they have? More importantly, how much are they willing and able to spend on anonymity/privacy/black-market technologies? These guys aren't rolling in dough. The IRA and the Real IRA have a lot of money, as the Brits have been complaining about recently. Osama bin Laden is said to control more than a billion dollars. And so on. I disagree with you assertion that these guys aren't rolling in dough. Members of the IRA are not freedom fighters in a communist-controlled country. bin Laden did fall under that definition when he was fighting to get the Russians out of Afghanistan but that was a long time ago. Now he's opposing American influence in Saudi Arabia. Some developers may nevertheless sympathize politically with such these groups and so could work on technology for them with a clear conscience. Revolutionaries overthrowing bad governments. The main revolutionaries who will be willing to pay money are those who expect to get rich from their revolution. These are the ones who want to throw out the tyrants so they can set themselves up as new tyrants. It is people like this who would be the best customers of cypherpunk technology. You're not making the world a better place by giving them tools. You make the assumption that overthrowing, say, the PRC or USSR governments, would result in a worse or just as bad regime. I disagree. And the same tools are still available to deconstruct interim replacement regimes. The point is that those who will pay large sums to acquire access to these technologies, even for the purpose of overthrowing an evil regime, are not doing it out of altruism. They're not good-guy libertarians who only want to set up a John Galt state. Realistically they're more likely to be interested in taking over the reins of power themselves. And it's pretty questionable to salve your conscience by saying that even if these guys use the tools to bad ends, someone else will then be able to use the same tools against them. The problem is, we're doing this for profit, right? We won't give the tools away once the first generation uses them to take over. We should sell them to the highest bidder. (Better to think of a service than a tool here. Most cypherpunk technologies require a distributed infrastructure that you can charge for.) The high bidders are once again going to be the bad guys who want to take over for selfish reasons. Distribution of birth control information in Islamic countries. Again, selling to Planned Parenthood is not a business plan which will make anyone rich. Planned Parenthood is not envisaged as the user Pray tell, who exactly will pay large sums to be able to distribute birth control information in Islamic countries? The conclusion is that you need to add a third axis to Tim's graph: morality, in addition to value and cost. Many of the most lucrative potential uses of anonymity technologies are morally questionable. If you add this additional filter you are forced to focus on just a few application areas (with the additional complication that few people will agree on morality, and that morality and legality often have little overlap). The technology is agnostic to morality. This is trivial; the same can be said for any technology. It is the users and implementors who are moral actors, and that is who we are considering. Choate argues that at least 5 or 6 axes are needed. Ever the nitwit, he fails to realize that the main debate doesn't even use the _two_ that I have outlined. Yes, I know about phase spaces and multi-dimensional diagrams. But given that the debate about privacy tools is mired at the 1D level (untracebility good, traceability bad...why don't the proles see this?), graphing the major users and suppliers on the 2D graph I outlined is a step in the right direction. It goes a long way to explaining why people will spend thousands to fly to the Caymans to set up a bank account while others won't even bother using PGP. Fine, if the only point you want to make is that costs must be considered. But eventually we need to move beyond that simplistic analysis. At that point we do need to consider morality and other issues. You want to add morality to the chart. Fine, except I don't see how it gives different answers than my chart gave. The answers it gives depends on the questions you ask. If your questions are simple enough (untraceability good?) then your chart will answer them. If your questions are more interesting (what technologies can be practically implemented and make a positive difference in the world) then you need a better chart.
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Borders UK and privacy
BORDERS U.K. USES FACE-RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGY TO MONITOR CUSTOMERS Borders Books in the U.K. is employing SmartFace technology to compare the unique digital face-maps of customers against similar face-maps of known shoplifters. Privacy advocates such as the director of the Scottish Human Rights Centre are outraged by the development: I can see why they don't want shoplifters in their store, but I would question whether this is proportionate to what they are trying to do. We are talking about having a bank of pictures of everyone going into the shop -- I would consider that a serious breach of privacy. There is no control over what they do with those pictures, or how they are kept -- are they safe? Nor is there much control over whether Borders could sell the information on, or whether people will actually know this is happening. (Sunday Herald 26 Aug 2001) http://www.sundayherald.com/18007
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Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Nomen Nescio wrote: The point is that those who will pay large sums to acquire access to these technologies, even for the purpose of overthrowing an evil regime, are not doing it out of altruism. They're not good-guy libertarians who only want to set up a John Galt state. Realistically they're more likely to be interested in taking over the reins of power themselves. And it's pretty questionable to salve your conscience by saying that even if these guys use the tools to bad ends, someone else will then be able to use the same tools against them. The problem is, we're doing this for profit, right? We won't give the tools away once the first generation uses them to take over. We should sell them to the highest bidder. (Better to think of a service than a tool here. Most cypherpunk technologies require a distributed infrastructure that you can charge for.) The high bidders are once again going to be the bad guys who want to take over for selfish reasons. Jeesus that's naive. What makes you think that new regime who used your tool to take over won't then shoot you and take 'your profits'. By participating you may in fact be signing your own death warrant. The highest bidders are going to be the ones with the most money at the tiem of the auction. Whether they gained that money by selfish/altruistic or good/bad reasons is relativistic. Further, to assume that the profits go to the 'bad guys w/ selfish reasons' a priori is just begging the question. Or is your thesis that the optimal market strategy is to be a 'bad guy w/ selfish reasons'? If so, you need to review that Galtian utopia. -- natsugusa ya...tsuwamonodomo ga...yume no ato summer grass...those mighty warriors'...dream-tracks Matsuo Basho The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
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RE: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
GH wrote: Nomen Nescio wrote: [snip] The answers it gives depends on the questions you ask. If your questions are simple enough (untraceability good?) then your chart will answer them. If your questions are more interesting (what technologies can be practically implemented and make a positive difference in the world) then you need a better chart. You (and Aimee) make the mistake of assuming that all of us believe that we are living in the best of all possible worlds. *sigh* Many people however believe that we [read: our government(s)] are in a downward spiral that is converging on police-and-welfare-state. In the US for example, we long ago abandoned our constitution. We still give it much lip service and we still have one of the more free societies but things are trending in the wrong direction. Each year more oppressive laws are passed, more things are made illegal to say or write or - if some have their way - think. (And of course it goes without saying that these things that are prohibited to us are available to authorized users: those in intelligence, law enforcement, etc. - the usual more equal individuals.) I might understand this better than you think. At the same time, more twits like you and Aimee spring up, always ready to say no, you mustn't say such things - you don't really mean that, do you? How could anyone even think such things? Twit: my pet name in here. As Tim has pointed out over and over, you need to read up on cypherpunks themes, goals and history. His signature has included this inscription for years (though he seems not to be using it lately): Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero knowledge, reputations, information markets, black markets, collapse of governments. Did you think he didn't really mean it? I'm not sticking my head in that noose. As a start on getting up to speed on alternatives to our current system of government (and excellent entertainment besides), I recommend you read these works: Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson The Ungoverned by Vernor Vinge There are many others that could be added to this list but just reading these will give you a taste of some alternative societies that might be in many ways preferable to the current kleptocracy. - GH (who admits he's been heavily influenced by Mr. May) So, now, it's... BlackNet; Case History of a Practically Untraceable System for Buying and Selling Corporate and National Secrets to foreign adversaries, and to spur the collapse of governments. Just out of curiosity, how many of you would sign on to a project like that? Would you please post a statement of interest, and detail how you would contribute to such a project? ~Aimee
'PARASITIC GRID' COULD UNDERMINE WIRELESS REVENUES (fwd)
an idiot wrote: Would seem it's high time trying to get Mojo and Freenet to do onion routing, preparing for the wireless wave. Here's some work in progress on XML-RPC interface to Mojo (identical to Freenet). doh, forgot the URL: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/mojonation/evil/hackerdocs/LJ_article.html?content-type=text/html
Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
At 09:40 PM 8/27/01 +0200, Nomen Nescio wrote: People selling their expertise when some guild says they are forbidden to. Morally this one seems OK. In a net already filled with bogus medical and legal advice it can't make things much worse. On the other hand it's not clear that the existing prohibitions are hurting anyone's bottom line. In some US states, you can be prohibited from working for a competitor for some time after you leave. Combine that with telecommuting.
RE: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
At 01:02 AM 8/28/01 -0500, Aimee Farr wrote: That is not my attitude at all, Reese. I obviously like Tim's Blacknet. However, I don't like it being characterized as a subversive tool, and damn sure not in terms that might indicate a criminal conspiracy for shopping out secrets to Libya. The point is, if its not *good enough* for taboo activity, its not good enough for everyday uses. And of course, tools are neutral; the knife OJ dressed his ex with was not an 'evil' piece of metal. Neither are guns. As metalsmiths, we might regret how we make it easier to slice members of our species, much as as technologists we might regret that nets+crypto makes some copyright unenforcable, or how networked boxes have an unintended side-effect of lessening privacy. As the first metalsmiths might have observed, no matter the pros and cons of this development, its out there, its possible, folks will be competing to refine it, so get used to it. You can always write a tome afterwards like Albert Hoffman's My Problem Child if you need to explain later. That being said, if you object to dark 'marketing' on a personal level, well, sure, but that's merely your personal taste.
Chaum's Workshop on Trustworthy Elections - this week, Tomales Bay, CA
OK, so it's a bit late, but I was going through recent RISKS Digests. - Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 14:23:15 -0700 From: David Chaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Workshop on Trustworthy Elections 26-29 August 2001, Tomales Bay, California: WOTE (Workshop on Trustworthy Elections) is a small research-oriented workshop devoted to advancing technologies for election integrity and ballot secrecy, organized by David Chaum and Ronald L. Rivest. Topics include: Cryptographic protocols, computer security, audit, operational procedures, certification, tamper-resistance, document security, integrity, ballot secrecy, voter authentication, all as related to trustworthy elections. http://www.vote.caltech.edu/wote01/index.html --
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'PARASITIC GRID' COULD UNDERMINE WIRELESS REVENUES
Would seem it's high time trying to get Mojo and Freenet to do onion routing, preparing for the wireless wave. Here's some work in progress on XML-RPC interface to Mojo (identical to Freenet). Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:24:15 +0200 To: Eugene Leitl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fwd: NewsScan Daily, 27 August 2001 (Above The Fold) 'PARASITIC GRID' COULD UNDERMINE WIRELESS REVENUES An underground movement is afoot to deploy free wireless access zones in urban areas, building on the increasing popularity of wi-fi or 802.11b technology -- a standard for wireless Ethernet that works on an unlicensed portion of the spectrum. The movement, dubbed the parasitic grid by some, is already thriving in New York, Seattle, San Francisco, Portland, British Columbia and London. The concept is based on community-minded volunteers, who offer other Internet users within a certain range -- say 300 feet -- a free ride on their wireless connections. The trend is not going unnoticed by the large wireless carriers in these cities. We are aware of the free services springing up and are considering 802.11b wireless access as well, not in place of currently scheduled rollouts but as an adjunct, says an ATT Wireless spokesman. Meanwhile, so-called aggregators have developed software that resides in the mobile device that can find any available network and connect the user to it, creating, in effect, metropolitan-wide free networks that may ultimately compete with fee-based wireless services. It would even be able to say, 'Here is a list of the networks found' and indicate which are free and which charge a fee, says an official at a company that provides 802.11b services at hotels and airports. (InfoWorld 24 Aug 2001) http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/08/24/010824hnfreewireless.xml [...]
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Re: Borders UK and privacy
BORDERS U.K. USES FACE-RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGY TO MONITOR CUSTOMERS Borders Books in the U.K. is employing SmartFace technology to compare Slashdot is reporting that they've backed off in response to negative public pressure. So for the moment you don't need to wear a mask to shop there, though they're probably still using cameras, and in many parts of the UK the local government is also videotaping the street. David Brin's book The Transparent Society suggests that you might as well get used to it. Technological change driven by the Moore's Law effects in computing power are making video cameras and computer image processing get cheaper rapidly, so the marginal benefit of using them doesn't have to be very high to outweigh the marginal cost. The real issues are still getting data, but the costs of sharing data are low and getting lower, and the government intervention that forces everyone to use picture ID to do almost anything makes it easier. Brin's conclusion is that since we won't be able to stop it, we should work to make sure government activities are open and watchable by the public. Similarly, the cost of correlating non-image data has decreased rapidly - many of the information collection practices used today date from the 1960s and 1970s, when a mainframe might have a megabyte of RAM, less than 10 MIPS of CPU, 100MB of fast disk drive, and everything else was tapes and punchcards, and it required a large staff of people to feed it. These days you can get pocket computers with ten times that capacity, and a $5000 desktop Personal Computer can have a gigabyte of RAM and a terabyte of disk drive with the Internet to feed it data; that's enough for the name and address of everybody on Earth, or a few KB on every American, and online queries are much faster than the traditional methods requiring offline data sets. That means that not only can governments and a few big companies decide to correlate pre-planned sets of data about people, but almost anybody can do ad-hoc queries on any data it's convenient for them to get, whether they're individuals or employees of small or large businesses. So if there's any data about you out there, don't expect it to stay private - even data that previously wasn't a risk because correlating it was hard. European-style data privacy laws aren't much help - they're structured for a world in which computers and databases were big things run by big companies, rather than everyday tools used by everyone in their personal lives, and rules requiring making them accessible to the public can be turned around into rules allowing the government to audit your mobile phone and your pocket organizer in case there might be databases on them. American-style data privacy laws are seriously flawed also - not the fluffy attempts at positive protection for privacy that liberal Nader types and occasional paranoid conservatives propose, but the real laws which require increasing collection of data in ways that are easy to correlate, such as the use of a single Taxpayer ID for employers, bank accounts, drivers' licenses, and medical records, Know Your Customer laws, national databases of people permitted to work, documentation proving you're not an illegal alien, etc. There's lots more data that would be readily available, but the bureaucrats that collect it restrict access or charge fees that reflect the pre-computer costs of providing the information. If you need a reminder, go buy a house and look at the junk mail you get, or have your neighbor's deadbeat kid register his car with your apartment number instead of his and see what shows up.
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Aimee's sweet spot
At 10:42 AM 8/28/01 -0500, Aimee Farr wrote: BlackNet; Case History of a Practically Untraceable System for Buying and Selling Corporate and National Secrets to foreign adversaries, and to spur the collapse of governments. BlackPowder: Applied Chemistry for Defeating Knights With Swords With Application to Selling Bibles in venaculars and other Vatican Secrets allowing oppressed foreigners to join us, and to spur the collapse of feudalism.
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Re: Jim Bell sentenced to 10 years in prison
John Young writes: Motherfucking sonsofbitching shiteaters. Of course, this is just part of the continuing trend in defining crimes by the subjective fantasies of a party claiming to be aggrieved. *I'M* afraid, therefore *YOU'RE* stalking. *I'M* ashamed, therefore *YOU'RE* indecent. *I'M* poor, therefore *YOU'VE* discriminated. *I'M* offended, therefore *YOUR* book is pornography. In legal circles, this bears a strong resemblance to the rightly-named Heckler's Veto, in which a crowd deliberately misbehaves in order to have a speaker they disagree with charged with incitement. The ultimate evolution of such nonsense is clearly the current situation in which Jeff PussyBoy Gordon's bad Hattie McDaniel impersonation means Jim Bell has committed a crime. Combine this with Judge Jack Token Negro With Chip on Shoulder Tanner's attempts to compensate for his genital inferiority by sentencing people before they commit crimes, and it is easy to see why Jim Bell can get 10 years and $10,000 for doing, as they would say on Weakest Link, absolutely nothing. The larger question is what are we going to do about it? Somehow Cypherpunks Write Code doesn't quite rise to the level of an appropriate response to these pigfuckers. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law
Re: Jim Bell sentenced to 10 years in prison
On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Eric Cordian wrote: The larger question is what are we going to do about it? Somehow Cypherpunks Write Code doesn't quite rise to the level of an appropriate response to these pigfuckers. The most appropriate response would seem to implement http://zolatimes.com/v2.26/jimbell.htm with the judge being the first name on the list. Getting digicash to work would be a real starter, anynymous donation submission infrastructure another step. Of course, cypherpunks are either too lazy, or to chicken for that. Eugene -- both
Re: Borders UK and privacy
On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Bill Stewart wrote: David Brin's book The Transparent Society suggests that you might as well get used to it. Technological change driven by the Moore's Law effects in computing power are making video cameras and computer image processing get cheaper rapidly, so the marginal benefit of using them doesn't have to be very high to outweigh the marginal cost. The real issues are still getting data, On the other hand, the technology of disguise and the public taste for radical body modification and active clothing all suggest that many of us will soon be denying a useful image to the opposition. Then we won't have to worry until genetic sniffers become popular. Genetic sniffers, however can probably be defeated by devices that give off clouds of genetically random human biological material. Offense and defense back and forth forever. DCF Marshal de Vaubin -- No stronghold be ever invested stood. No position he ever defended fell.
RE: Jim Bell sentenced to 10 years in prison
Aimee Farr could be a nice lady lawyer who just appeared here by serendip or a ... MS shiteater operating under the entrapment rules of IRS investigation manual. Speaking what my nose tells me about Aimee's taunts and ear licks here, and after smelling the shit spread in Tanner's courtroom, she's very dirty. Jeff and Rob and the undercover agents behaved exactly the same and relished displaying the effect of their sucker punches to the jury. Anybody who has been responding to Aimee's emails in a manner that has her name in the To: is fucked, but the same is true if you didn't do that but decided instead to eat her bait and flaunt your superior intelligence. According to the IRS manual she's working with associates here ricocheting bank shots, though the associates may be her other shiteating nyms. Me, I joke about this stuff Aimee acts way too serious about and nothing she's (or he's or they've) posted here under any nym is to be taken seriously outside a Tanner-thighslap jury rig. I figure there is more than one operation underway here, and not all of them know what the others are doing. Christ, the feeding is so bountiful they're probably shiteating each other's. Which is what happens when cybercrimebusters have resources beyond their abilities.
Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
Members of the IRA are not freedom fighters in a communist-controlled country. bin Laden did fall under that definition when he was fighting The naivety of poster is appaling. I hope that freedom fighters in a communist-controlled country is used as a placeholder for something good as positive but I wouldn't bet on it. Apparently ability to spell crypto does not imply political sapiense beyond that of inbred pigfucking redneck from Alabama (this is a place holder). You guys just want to do good things, like spreading crypto, right, without bothering much to figure out who's who on the planet. I have seen more intelligent dicourses on global politics and society on late night shopping channel shows than here. Fortunately crypto is good in itself. Any crypto anywhere is a good crypto.
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Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
On Tuesday, August 28, 2001, at 8:04 AM, Tim May wrote: On Monday, August 27, 2001, at 11:20 PM, Nomen Nescio wrote: On Monday, August 27, 2001, at 12:56 PM, Tim May wrote: On Monday, August 27, 2001, at 12:40 PM, Nomen Nescio wrote: Freedom fighters in communist-controlled regimes. How much money do they have? More importantly, how much are they willing and able to spend on anonymity/privacy/black-market technologies? These guys aren't rolling in dough. The IRA and the Real IRA have a lot of money, as the Brits have been complaining about recently. Osama bin Laden is said to control more than a billion dollars. And so on. I disagree with you assertion that these guys aren't rolling in dough. Members of the IRA are not freedom fighters in a communist-controlled country. bin Laden did fall under that definition when he was fighting to get the Russians out of Afghanistan but that was a long time ago. Now he's opposing American influence in Saudi Arabia. Your reading comprehension sucks. I gave half a dozen _examples_, one of them freedom fighters in communist-controlled regimes and you assume this is the only kind of freedom fighter being talked about. No point in carrying on a conversation with this breathtaking display of literalism. The reason why in communist-controlled regimes is relevant is because you advanced it as an example of MORALLY acceptable use of technology (presuming that most readers will oppose communism). The objection was raised, yes, it is moral, but is it profitable? There are not many communist-opposed freedom fighters around today, not much money to be made there. You came back and mentioned the IRA and bin Laden. It is true, both of these are well funded. But this does not answer the objection. The point was, can you find groups that are both profitable to sell to, and morally acceptable? The latter consideration is what led to the in communist-controlled regimes limitation in the first place. You can't just throw that part out without losing the moral acceptability which motivated the example in the first place. bin Laden and the IRA have plenty of money, but will many cypherpunks agree with their politics? It's hard to believe that anyone thinks that if the IRA or bin Laden were to succeed in their goals, that they would put in place a kindler and gentler state. It remains a challenge to identify groups that are both (A) wealthy, (B) in need of anonymity technologies, and (C) morally acceptable to support. Freedom fighters don't fit all that well, in today's world.
Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
It remains a challenge to identify groups that are both (A) wealthy, (B) in need of anonymity technologies, and (C) morally acceptable to support. Freedom fighters don't fit all that well, in today's world. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hutus, Tutsis, Vietnamese, Chinese, Russians, Commodities traders, Branch Davidians, homosexuals, hetrosexuals I could go on for pages but I'm telnetting. Some members of all of those groups have satisfied your somewhat arbitrary requirements at various times and in various places in the last 60 years. DCF If you want to get rid of communists in government jobs; get rid of the government jobs. - Frank Chodorov.
RE: Jim Bell sentenced to 10 years in prison
On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, John Young wrote: Tanner's courtroom, she's very dirty. Jeff and Rob and the undercover agents behaved exactly the same and relished displaying the effect of their sucker punches to the jury. But that's no excuse for JB not sucker punching back. The only reason for running your own defense is so that you can get nastier in cross-ex than a lawyer can. If you can't do it, you're better off having a lawyer do everything. I think JB had the worst of both worlds - a lawyer who he alternately ignored and fought with. I wasn't there but just an impression. Anybody who has been responding to Aimee's emails in a manner that has her name in the To: is fucked, but the same is true if you didn't do that but decided instead to eat her bait and flaunt your superior intelligence. I think Jeff used up all the low-hanging fruit on the list. Anyone else he goes after comes expensive. Maybe Choate but would he really be worth it. Anyone with half a brain could put on a stronger defense than the two previous victims. We either have the money or the emotional resources to corral a defense. CJ JB didn't really even try. For example, neither got real lawyers. I figure there is more than one operation underway here, and not all of them know what the others are doing. Christ, the feeding is so bountiful they're probably shiteating each other's. Which is what happens when cybercrimebusters have resources beyond their abilities. They need an overt act. Mere chat won't be enough. DCF Do under others as they would do unto themselves. -- The First Rule of MetaLaw. The problem with the Golden Rule is that tastes may differ.
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It remains a challenge to identify groups that are both (A) wealthy, (B) in need of anonymity technologies, and (C) morally acceptable to support. Freedom fighters don't fit all that well, in today's world. Corporate Executives A, B, sort of C
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RE: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
Didn't you already sign on? Surely through your careful study of the archives you know that one of the founding documents for this list is Tim's Crypto Anarchist Manifesto. It's practically the charter. See, for example, http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Crypto_misc/cryptoanarchist.manifesto - GH No. There wasn't even a clickwrap. ~Aimee
Inferno: The UN killed the recording industry (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:37:37 -0400 Subject: Inferno: The UN killed the recording industry On December 10, 1948, the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Now, more than 50 years later, the declaration could be just the thing to pull down the recording industry. And it all boils down to a little history, a little technology, and a clause in the Universal Declaration called Article 19 http://www.shift.com/web/columns/column014.asp Article 19. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. Doesn't touch on what happens if someone copyrights your opinion or prevents you from proving your opinion that a copyright infrigement protection process is flawed but it's an interesting perspective w/ a few new aspiring additions to Freenet.
Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
Nomen says: bin Laden and the IRA have plenty of money, but will many cypherpunks agree with their politics? It's hard to believe that anyone thinks that if the IRA or bin Laden were to succeed in their goals, that they would put in place a kindler and gentler state. It remains a challenge to identify groups that are both (A) wealthy, (B) in need of anonymity technologies, and (C) morally acceptable to support. Freedom fighters don't fit all that well, in today's world. What total bullshit -- And what's that previous bs about drug cartels being morally unacceptable? Drug dealers are heros in today's world, we need to take lessons from them. Look how they deal with judges and prosecutors down in Columbia -- works for me! Seems like a real Good Thing@ in light of Jim Bell, Brian West, etc. Why do you say Osama bin Laden is not our friend? The enemy of my enemy is my friend, not so? Osama has no interest in taking over the US, just in cutting off the head of the snake. Sounds like a great idea. The IRA wants to kick the Brits out of Ireland, another good idea, should have happened long ago. IRA are great patriots. So is bin Laden, so am I. Maybe we could develop tools that the drug cartels would pay for, or bin Laden, and that all mankind would benefit from. Maybe they could pay for them by killing judges and prosecutors here for us. Seems like a fair trade.
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Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
On Tuesday, August 28, 2001, at 02:37 PM, Duncan Frissell wrote: It remains a challenge to identify groups that are both (A) wealthy, (B) in need of anonymity technologies, and (C) morally acceptable to support. Freedom fighters don't fit all that well, in today's world. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hutus, Tutsis, Vietnamese, Chinese, Russians, Commodities traders, Branch Davidians, homosexuals, hetrosexuals I could go on for pages but I'm telnetting. Some members of all of those groups have satisfied your somewhat arbitrary requirements at various times and in various places in the last 60 years. I posted a list half a dozen years ago of enemies of the people. Quakers, Mormons, homosexuals, Protestants, Catholics, and on and on...my CFP slide listed about a hundred. Search engines may turn it up. I would do the search myself, except I'm fed up with posting such information and not even having twits like Aimee Farr even read the oldest and most basic documents. (Her recent horrified reaction to very basic points is illustratative of her ignorance.) --Tim May
