Fwd: Reputation capital
[Retransmission. Due to periodic problems with lne.com, I started sending my messages to ssz.com a few days ago. Alas, ssz.com has had an outage. Hence these retransmissions. Sorry for any dupes.] Begin forwarded message: From: Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue Dec 04, 2001 08:56:01 AM US/Pacific To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Reputation capital On Tuesday, December 4, 2001, at 05:28 AM, Marcel Popescu wrote: I think all this stuff about reputations is being solved pretty neatly by the credit bureaus... up to getting scalars on people / companies. Mark This is naive. Credit bureaus handle only a particular class of reputations, certain types of credit-worthiness, and then with well-documented deep flaws: -- regulation by government -- Fair Credit Reporting Act forbids them from remembering certain classes of defaults and welshings -- lack of competition (the Three use the same precise standards) If you are rejoining the discussions after a long absence, you need to get up to speed. --Tim May The Constitution is a radical document...it is the job of the government to rein in people's rights. --President William J. Clinton --Tim May That government is best which governs not at all. --Henry David Thoreau
Re: ssz switchover test
On Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 06:44:54AM -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: testing lne: ssz appears down hard :-( Mail to ssz has been backed up at lne since midnight tuesday. The list of CDRs is at: http://www.lne.com/cpunk/ Eric
Re: Fwd: Reputation capital
On Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 08:07:47AM -0800, Tim May wrote: [Retransmission. Due to periodic problems with lne.com, I started sending my messages to ssz.com a few days ago. Alas, ssz.com has had an outage. Hence these retransmissions. Sorry for any dupes.] The problems lne was having have been fixed. My MX host had an extra '.' in their MailerHosts table, so mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] that got MXd to them was being rejected with 'User unknown'. Eric
Re: Russian Party of Pensioners Manifesto,
Without property rights in the means of production to separate one man's plan from another man's plan, there can only be one plan, one plan for everything, one plan for everyone, one plan that all must obey. Libertarianism? Its the one plan here that all must obey.The ubergeeks one true religon.Yet you seek to rip off the hard earned kudos of 'anarchy' and 'punk'.You stand exposed as the fraud you are james by your own straw man argument. Will you denounce the march for capitalism for its rank socialist organising and marching?
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Re: Reputation capital
From: Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think all this stuff about reputations is being solved pretty neatly by the credit bureaus... up to getting scalars on people / companies. This is naive. Credit bureaus handle only a particular class of reputations, certain types of credit-worthiness, and then with well-documented deep flaws: Ok, I agree I was too happy to have found something connected to this :) Let's say there APPEARS to be a solution, at least to a class of problems - trade reputations - and the credit bureaus MIGHT BE a good start in that direction. (And apparently a good second step would be the removal of the flaws you mention.) Also, regarding the flaws: something like this would be a HUGE improvement over the current situation in many countries (mine included). Mark
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excerpts from http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-120501shroder.story about the importance of operational security Later CNN gave Shroder an enhanced copy of the complete tape. It revealed that the camera operator did not turn off the camera while he removed it from the tripod. As he tilted the camera up, the outline of the top of the ravine was caught on two frames. Armed with this new information, Shroder was able to place Bin Laden in a province in the south. ... They told me, 'You guys have made yourselves a little too vulnerable,' he said. Now, the nondescript room Shroder and his team use to assemble and analyze maps of Afghanistan has been secured: digital locks and 24-hour audio and video surveillance. I'm now a worldwide target.
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Re: Speech May Not Be Free, but It's Refundable
Then that would involve the FCC which wouldn't be pure speech. Besides, roasted Choate won't be so appetizing. I find it more fun tweaking him on his errors. :) --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ --*--:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, David Honig wrote: At 11:42 AM 12/3/01 -0500, Sunder wrote: Ok, then I propose to surround your property from any vantage point on public land, and setup gigantic speakers from which I would recite very loud speeches in your direction at 3:00am. Why not do some high-power microwave testing in his direction?
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Re: Reputation of a Reputation
On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Tim May wrote: This is the reputation of a reputation. As soon as people tumble to the fact that Tom Clancy has sold his nym/reputation to some hack writer, that is, let them put his name on their words, then the reputation of Tom Clancy falls. Nothing new here. Fisher was a respected (high reputation) name in stereo equipment. (I don't like the term reputation, due to issues I've discussed here, but I'm using it in the commonly understood sense.) The name Fisher was bought by a Taiwan maker of equipment, and one can now see Fisher on boxes at Costco and Best Buy. Draw your own conclusions. My own sense is that no one is fooled: those young enough not to know what Fisher once was don't care. Those old enough to know aren't fooled. I expect the brand name Fisher sold for very little money, reflecting all of these issues. It seems to me that the sale of the reputation is a red herring in these cases. Tim's giving examples of instances where a particular brand's reputation for a given level of quality became devalued when the brand's product became inferior to products previously sold under the same brand name. I suspect that buyers of Fisher would find the sale of the name unimportant, if the new Taiwanese owners continued to produce equipment of the same caliber as the old Fisher. It takes significantly longer to build a brand reputation than it does to lose it. By purchasing another's name, one attempts to cut the brand building stage short -- but it is necessary to live up to the expectations associated with that brand. -MW-
eCash reported morbidly wounded
http://fuckedcompany.com/ Cashed Rumor has it eCash.net will be closing down any day now... aquisition fell through, around 40 people soon-to-be jobless. When: 12/4/2001 Company: eCash.net Severity: 100 - new hall of fame inductee! -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place...
IP: FBI Reorganization Posted
The death lists by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5:47am Thu Dec 6 '01 Honeywell helped the phoenix program in 'nam and PROMIS stolen software helped round em up in guatamala and the old south africa.This mob just got 80 million to be the next. http://www.csc.com.au/ here in Australia. But first, a little background information about CSC. We are a full-scope, global IT services company. We pride ourselves on providing real solutions to customers' business problems. These solutions range from management consulting, systems development, systems integration to outsourcing. Our solutions are based on experience, innovation and total capability. Being part of the global CSC offers our customers here access to some of the world's best people, processes, intellectual property and technology. We leverage the very best ideas and approaches from our worldwide industry verticals (such as Financial Services and Healthcare). We access those market-leading services from our global operations (like Outsourcing) to complement the regional and local relationships developed with our customers. The DoD's Computer Investigations Training Program offered its first class, Introduction to Computer Search and Seizure, in September 1998. More...at... http://sydney.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=9108group=webcast and www.cryptome.org of corse.
Re: Reputation of a Reputation
On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Tim May wrote: By the way, a topic I talked about a month or two ago, the bogus nature of the _Economics_ prize, has been in the news. Some of the descendants of the Nobel family want the Economics prize to have no connection to the name Nobel. Their claim is that Alfred Nobel didn't create or fund the prize, so why is it called Nobel? I think the subtext is that the Econ prize is trivializing the other prizes. It's actually called the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics. And even though Moral Philosophy is not a science, it is a bit easier to award reasonable prizes in than Literature and Peace. Toni Morrison call your agent. DCF War was created so that men in primative societies would have a valid excuse for deserting the wife and kids.
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eCash reported mortally wounded...
Reposted as the first one bounced no route to host boggle: http://fuckedcompany.com/ Cashed Rumor has it eCash.net will be closing down any day now... aquisition fell through, around 40 people soon-to-be jobless. When: 12/4/2001 Company: eCash.net Severity: 100 - new hall of fame inductee! -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place...
Re: MD5 (was Re: Antivirus software will ignore FBI spyware: solutions)
size or checksum changes. Hidden files are trivial to use, though many utilities ignore their hiddenness, Let's not forget the NT alternate data streams feature. This is where almost anything can be held, and no known virus scanner can touch it. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place...
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Re: will the real capitalism please stand up
At 01:58 PM 12/6/01 +1100, mattd wrote: Objectivism the real thing? How do you separate fascism from capitalism? Coercion.
Ellison holds Liberty down as Rumsfeld does her
At 01:52 PM 12/5/01 +0100, Eugene Leitl wrote: who'd thunk http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1004-200-8070437.html Ellison donates software for U.S. security Oracle OpenWorld 2001 Moscone Center San Francisco, California December 2-7, 2001 SAFETY AND SECURITY POLICIES IT IS IMPORTANT THAT YOU READ AND FOLLOW THESE PROCEDURES In the wake of the September 11 events, Oracle Corporation is taking additional safety measures for OpenWorld. We are working to make these changes with minimal impact on our attendees, but would ask for your cooperation to ensure that appropriate safety measures are taken for our event. This year expect to see more security. Uniformed police officers will be on duty at Moscone Convention Center and extra Security Officers will be roving all Conference sites and the exhibit hall floor. However, there is a new security policy being instituted for OpenWorld that you need to be aware of: While on-site, you should carry a photo ID (driver's license or passport) at all times.
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Re: Reputation of a Reputation
At 10:17 AM 12/3/01 -0800, Tim May wrote: As soon as people tumble to the fact that Tom Clancy has sold his nym/reputation to some hack writer, that is, let them put his name on their words, then the reputation of Tom Clancy falls. I was coming to that conclusion thanks to the public exchange of certain extremely-high-rep folks here. The conclusion: you can't sell a nym. Nyms are best managed by their initiator. You can sell a nym's recommendation reliably but not a nym. Is this true? A grasshopper,
Re: Speech May Not Be Free, but It's Refundable
At 11:42 AM 12/3/01 -0500, Sunder wrote: Ok, then I propose to surround your property from any vantage point on public land, and setup gigantic speakers from which I would recite very loud speeches in your direction at 3:00am. Why not do some high-power microwave testing in his direction?
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Meta-reputations
To summarize: You can sell nyms by transferring private keys. Whether other people like it or not, it can be done. And others can't necessarily tell. There is nothing to stop someone from transferring his private key in this way. Any reputation goes along with the nym, and this may be quite valuable. As Wolf points out, building up a reputation is a lot harder than maintaining one. The main problem is how to do the transfer cleanly, such that the former nym owner can't damage the reputation once sold. Several solutions have been offered, involving doing a key change. Complications arise in terms of making the old key useless, but these can probably be worked out using careful timing, as well as escrow services. Here is another way to handle it: meta-reputation. This is your reputation for reliably handling reputations. Someone who has done several nym transfers cleanly and honestly could build up a meta-reputation and this will facilitate future nym sales. Meta-reputation cannot be solely associated with a particular nym, but via transferrable credentials it can build up over a family of nyms which are unlinkable. A nym seller can present credentials showing that it has completed successful nym transfers in the past, honestly and without problems. This offers evidence that a proposed nym transfer will go smoothly as well. The problem of selling meta-reputation is left as an exercise for the reader.
minarchy wont work(attn.D.Honing)
http://home.onestop.net/nomad/Childs_Open_Letter_to_Rand.html According to this...From: http://world.std.com/~mhuben/critobj.html
Re: A little quiet in here....
Well, I did get your particular message. After scumscribing to lne.com, I got 3-4 messages, and nothing more... I guess it's time to read from the archives -- if they've caught any traffic at all. Someone mentioned lne had a bad dns entry for an mx record (an extra .) Choate mentioned he was going to switch ssz to some other T1's or something... (I generally don't pay attention to Choate when he's not posting hillariously illogical Choatian-Prime posts.) --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ --*--:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Wed, 5 Dec 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm no CDR traffic for about two days. Toad is dead, einstein.ssz.com seems off the 'Net completely, and lne.com is deserted. Conspiracy theorists, start your keyboards :) ___ Want a FREE fast, secure, and permanent email address? Visit http://www.FastCircle.com
guns, encryption, ID, biometrics, document authentication, unswipable CA drivers licenses
Learned the following today: starting soon --Jan 2002 IIRC-- you can't use an unswipable drivers license to buy a gun in CA. When asked, the gunstore employee said there was encrypted info on them that was harder to forge than the holograph-laminated front. When I said that the licenses could be read with a regular cardreader and that info could be forged, he suggested it was the newer license (with two pictures vs 1 and an optical bar code too). He suggested that the encrypted info was harder to forge than the laminated front. This would be possible if the front info was securely hashed with a secret key. Anyone have more info? Good citizens are curious if they did this right, and what all the bits on the strip mean. So monkeywrenching the magstrip will impair your constitutional rights. A replacement license is $12; perhaps a good citizen needs a spare. In any case Govn'or Slime Davis signed a law requiring fingerprints in a year or two. I bet they'll be taking hair samples or cheek scrapings in five years.
Re: MD5 (was Re: Antivirus software will ignore FBI spyware:solutions)
Gil Hamilton wrote: Karsten Self writes: Defeat: create a log buffer file of fixed size, logged activity changes its contents, but not the size of the file. E.g.: a filesystem image file under GNU/Linux. Techniques could be used to maintain a constant global MD5 checksum to defeat other detection attempts. What techniques could be used to do this? MD5 has some weaknesses, but creating collisions still is not trivial. Unless you know something I don't. I interpreted that not as working around MD5, but as working around the procedure which would use MD5 to get a single number for an entire file system. Example: mark the logging software's keylog file as a device file, which wouldn't be processed by the file system checksum procedure. When the logger needs to write to its log, the file type is changed to ordinary and then back to device again. -- Steve Furlong, Computer Condottiere Have GNU, will travel
Message status - undeliverable
The message that you sent was undeliverable to the following: bjonkman Information about your message: Subject: CDR: CFP: PKI research workshop
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Untraceable money now more than ever!
Or, "Why We Fight." Just thought I'd pass along this gem I found in one of the newsgroups. If true, it shows the unlawful/extralegal reach of government into the pockets of persons not tried, not convicted, not even charged, not even plausibly guilty of anything. This guy is having his OWN MONEY blocked, probed, and frozen. No charges, no court, just done by forces unseen to him. Editorial comment: The Founders would likely be stunned to see bureaucrats in a distant city able to reach in and essentially grab the money of a person without any due process, without fines or court-ordered seizures, just on the say-so of a bureaucrat. This guy below _wrote_ about it, so there are probably hundreds more just like him who choose not to further anger Big Brother by writing angry letters. Me, I'd be so angry I'd probably be strapping on the plastic explosives Read it and stoke your righteous anger: --begin article-- This was in today's Washington Post. Check it out at www.washingtonpost.com === Letters to the Post == Whose Sacrifice? Monday, December 3, 2001; Page A20 American citizens are willing to sacrifice civil liberties in the fight against terrorism [front page, Nov. 29], but which Americans are doing the sacrificing? Since Sept. 11 the FBI has interviewed me at work and at home because my name is similar not to that of one of the hijackers, but to an individual arrested with suspected links to the terrorists. The FBI has contacted my broker, my neighbors and my friends to learn more about me. I was purchasing an apartment, but when I needed to give my down payment at closing I was informed by my bank that my accounts were frozen. No one informed me nor could anyone help me resolve the problem. Only an angry settlement attorney was able to unfreeze the funds. A month passed, and all seemed normal. Then I found out again that I did not have access to transfer funds from my accounts without government approval. I am a federal employee. I have not been charged with a crime. I do not support terrorism, and I was willing to help the law enforcement agencies. It was my duty as an American to answer all the questions asked of me. But as time goes by and I have to get "clearance" every time I want to make a bank transfer, I feel victimized. Every time I travel and receive the extra security checks because of my name it makes me trust my government less. What scares me even more is that I am an American citizen, and that is why I am not in jail. If I were not a citizen I could be one of the hundreds of detainees, or I could be in sitting in front of a secret military court only because the crime I am guilty of is that my name is Ali Ayub and not Joe Smith. ALI AYUB Arlington 2001 The Washington Post Company --end article-- --Tim May "If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around." --attribution uncertain, possibly Gunner, on Usenet
Re: Reputation of a Reputation
On Monday, December 3, 2001, at 02:22 PM, Duncan Frissell wrote: Special agents should read the Economist in addition to NLECTC Law Enforcement Corrections Technology News Summary http://www.nlectc.org/. http://WWW.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=S%26%2BX%28%2FQ%21%3B%26%0A The lemon dilemma Oct 11th 2001 From The Economist print edition This year's Nobel prize for economics honours work inspired by a simple observation about used cars By the way, a topic I talked about a month or two ago, the bogus nature of the _Economics_ prize, has been in the news. Some of the descendants of the Nobel family want the Economics prize to have no connection to the name Nobel. Their claim is that Alfred Nobel didn't create or fund the prize, so why is it called Nobel? I think the subtext is that the Econ prize is trivializing the other prizes. Economists win for lemon analysis does not quite compare with discovering basic laws of physics or chemistry, for example. --Tim May Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat. --David Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11
Re: Reputation capital
On Tuesday, December 4, 2001, at 05:28 AM, Marcel Popescu wrote: I think all this stuff about reputations is being solved pretty neatly by the credit bureaus... up to getting scalars on people / companies. Mark This is naive. Credit bureaus handle only a particular class of reputations, certain types of credit-worthiness, and then with well-documented deep flaws: -- regulation by government -- Fair Credit Reporting Act forbids them from remembering certain classes of defaults and welshings -- lack of competition (the Three use the same precise standards) If you are rejoining the discussions after a long absence, you need to get up to speed. --Tim May The Constitution is a radical document...it is the job of the government to rein in people's rights. --President William J. Clinton
Re: Bookstores and von Mises - was: fuel injected firearm
On Monday, December 3, 2001, at 02:23 AM, Bill Stewart wrote: von Mises has been dead for a while and his publisher is probably not actively running wholesale specials. Besides, he's like one of those Tedious Dead White Male Classics authors; nobody actually reads him, they just read commentaries or literary criticisms on him, or the Cliff Notes or comic-book von Mises For Beginners versions (don't know if they've done him, but the Heidegger one makes it palatable to at least approach Heidegger* :-) or more likely, economics/politics textbooks by people who have occasional references to von Mises but haven't actually read his work, just the commentaries/litcrit/cliffnotes/comics about him. Well, Marx for Dummies has been the best-selling economics textbook for something like 40 years, through at least 7 or 9 editions. --Tim May A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the Public Treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the Public Treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy always followed by dictatorship. --Alexander Fraser Tyler
Re: Russian Manifesto, long and probably useless
On Tuesday, December 4, 2001, at 04:14 AM, Fyodor wrote: Only in our country is it possible for such an ineffective, talentless government to exist. Here we go again! I mean, I'm sure the Russian government is incompetent - but to decry that? Pray for more! The more incompetent they are, the more chances you have of developing an economy behind their backs. Wrong. Having russian background I guess I have more clear understanding what these guys are trying to say: The government is definetely ineffective in protecting its citizen, providing the social wealthfare to them and such, but on the other hand the government corruption, deep involvement with crimilal circles and udertable deals with big foreign corporations bring the country into the situation when the rulling top of the country is having/sharing a huge amount (can't bring any number) of all the profits, while the rest of population (especially pensioners in russia (people of age of 50 and above, who are brought up in post-socialist environment and are totally incapable to adopt to new environment)) are thrown and maintained in poverty. This matches everything I have seen about Russia. It simply is implausible that corruption and inefficiency means more opportunities for economies behind their backs (to summarize the argument). What Russia shows is that privatizing a state-run economy is difficult indeed. Gazprom, the big gas and energy company, is a case in point. There was no free market to acquire the resources of this privatized company: the thugs and apparatchniks (sp?) grabbed the company. And they are willing to use former KGB, GRU, and Spetsnaz killers to enforce their monopoly. What about non-heavy industry? Television, for example? Read about the ongoing shutdown of Moscow independent stations and networks, on flimsy grounds having the _language_ of capitalism (stuff about loan default) but actually being just part of the thugocracy approach. (The U.S. is not blameless here. Our own FCC applies similar rules sometimes to block stations. And woe unto any Islamic broadcaster, where the new language is that the First Amendment does not apply to hate speech or speech insulting to other religions. At this rate, the long-awaited convergence of Russia and America is not far off.) Russia as a haven for Havenco? For digital money? For e-commerce? Laughable. --Tim May --Tim May If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around. --attribution uncertain, possibly Gunner, on Usenet
We're back...
Hi, Well after a couple of days down time we're back. Seems my providers machine room got a tad wet from somebody dumping a water main into it (perhaps somebody wanted to go swimming?). Seems it's gonna run in the $5M range for repairs and such after they're all done. -- Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
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