date:20021120

Variola wrote...



What's missing?  What part of your threat model didn't they consider?


Well, that the recipient of the message may not be on their own machine (not 
running "Rubberhose"), etc...


Stego your activist photos into kiddie porn which is stegoed into >random 
plaintext cover images. When they discover your thoughtcrime, >they stop 
looking.

I thought about this, but it has some problems in some cases. For one, if I 
know "they" are looking for (say) a simple text list, and I want them to get 
their list (so to speak), I will need to "hide" the list in a simple text 
list, and this doesn't sound very stego-friendly.

In addition, they may not know that there's some stego in that photo NOW, 
but they'll hold on to the evidence for later. And one day they may have 
reason to check for more. It's better, then, to have the option of having 
the data be destroyed if the fake key is used.



Gotta hide the tools, too, BTW, since you can assume They know how they
are used.
I don't know if the CIA advised the chinese underground on this re Pink
Triangle or whatever.
Else mere possession of the thing (like owning a one-hole glass flute
with a faucet screen occluding the hole)
makes you doubleplus unperson.


Yes, this I think is the rub. Of course, the encrypt and decrypt programs 
could be different, with the decryption program showing no hint of the fact 
that two keys could be used for the same message (one of which leading to 
the false data). But that's only good for non-savvy typesimages smuggled 
out of banana republics and so on.

I need to dig into my theory, but of course it would be nice if some 
messages so encrypted were reverse-compatible with existing systems (in 
other words, if I sent a message so encrypted to old PGP software, both keys 
will work just fine to decrypt that message). I don't consider this too 
likely, but I'll have to dig into the nitty-gritty of PGP to see. But if 
this were possible, it would solve that issue. Nobody would ever know if the 
user were even aware of this dual encryption.





---
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What the heck is Aerosil? Is that like UBIK?


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RE: Torture done correctly is a terminal process

2002-11-20 Thread Lucky Green

Adam wrote:
> The Russians, Americans and I believe others have moved from 
> physical to psychological methods which have proven to work 
> better than actual physical pain.  I recall reading a story 
> on Abdul Murad, the Al Qaeda member arrested in 1995 in the 
> Philipines, where the way they finally got him to talk ws 
> threatening him with being turned over to the Israelis.

I recently obtained an illuminating recording of a speech by a judge
sitting on the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals which was given before the
San Francisco Commonwealth Club. In said recording, the honorable judge
proposes the issuance of formal federal torture warrants. The reader may
or may not take comfort in the fact that the honorable judge firmly
insists that the needles he proposes to be inserted under the
fingernails of suspects should be sterile.

Clearly, at least hygiene has progressed in the last 300 years.

--Lucky Green

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2002-11-20 Thread F8

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To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:34:30 +0800
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~ Educational and Fun Video Tales for your Child! ~

2002-11-20 Thread Travis Cross





  
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best for cpum ,my friend

2002-11-20 Thread just2002cpum

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Re: Torture done correctly is a terminal process

2002-11-20 Thread Adam Shostack

On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 04:30:42PM -0800, Tim May wrote:
| On Wednesday, November 20, 2002, at 12:49  PM, dmolnar wrote:
| 
| >On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Tyler Durden wrote:
| >
| >>to have a big jpg of a hand with middle finger extended...) More than 
| >>this,
| >>they will have unknowingly destroyed the real data. (Perhaps a 3rd 
| >>key is
| >>needed that DOESN'T destroy the original data, just 'hides' it a la
| >>Rubberhose.)
| >
| >The question I've seen asked about this is then -- how do you get them 
| >to
| >stop beating you? If they know you might have some number of duress 
| >keys,
| >one of which might undetectably hide the data, what stops them from
| >beating you until
| >
| > 1) you give them a key that shows them what they want to see
| > 2) you die
| >
| >Maybe this isn't that different from the ordinary unencrypted case, 
| >where
| >if they don't find it on your HD they can accuse you of burying disks 
| >in
| >the backyard or something. Or is the goal protecting the data and not
| >protecting your life?
| 
| From my reading of tradecraft, as practiced by SAVAK, MOSSAD, GRU, 
| etc., there is rarely anything to be gained by letting the target of 
| torture survive. If he or she survives, she screams to the newspapers, 
| "60 Minutes," etc.

There's also rarely anything to be gained from torture, as people will
invent all sorts of crap to get out from physical pain.

| The United States draws heavily on Israel for torture methods, as their 
| methods come from some of the best torturers the world has ever seen, 
| their teachers at Auschwitz and Berlin Central.

The Russians, Americans and I believe others have moved from physical
to psychological methods which have proven to work better than
actual physical pain.  I recall reading a story on Abdul Murad, the Al
Qaeda member arrested in 1995 in the Philipines, where the way they
finally got him to talk ws threatening him with being turned over to
the Israelis.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=95001363

The Russians reputedly used sensory deprivation as a means of
convincing western spies to talk.  24 to 48 hours in a tank broke
nearly anyone.

Adam


-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
   -Hume

(±¤°í)ÏÐÊ«¿¡¼ ÙíÖù·Î µå¸³´Ï´Ù.

2002-11-20 Thread ÏÐÊ«¿¡¼µå¸²

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Make your PC create your paycheck!

2002-11-20 Thread James058393


 !! HELLO:  PLEASE TAKE THE TIME AND CHECK THIS OUT!!
You get emails every day, offering to show you how to make money.
Most of these emails are from people who are NOT making any money.
And they expect you to listen to them?

Enough.

If you want to make money with your computer, then you should
hook up with a group that is actually DOING it.  We are making
a large, continuing income every month.  What's more - we will
show YOU how to do the same thing.

This business is done completely by internet and email, and you
can even join for free to check it out first.  If you can send
an email, you can do this.  No special "skills" are required.

How much are we making?  Anywhere from $2000 to $9000 per month.
We are real people, and most of us work at this business part-time.
But keep in mind, we do WORK at it - I am not going to 
insult your intelligence by saying you can sign up, do no work,
and rake in the cash.  That kind of job does not exist.  But if
you are willing to put in 10-12 hours per week, this might be
just the thing you are looking for.

This is not income that is determined by luck, or work that is
done FOR you - it is all based on your effort.  But, as I said,
there are no special skills required.  And this income is RESIDUAL -
meaning that it continues each month (and it tends to increase
each month also).

Interested?  I invite you to find out more.  You can get in as a
free member, at no cost, and no obligation to continue if you
decide it is not for you.  We are just looking for people who still
have that "burning desire" to find an opportunity that will reward
them incredibly well, if they work at it.

To grab a FREE ID#, simply reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and in the body of the email, write this phrase:
 
"Please secure my free membership"

Be sure to include:
1. First name
2. Last name
3. Email address (if different from above)
4. By submitting a request for a FREE DHS Club Membership, I agree
to accept email from the DHS Club for both their consumer and
business opportunities.

We will confirm your position and send you a special report
as soon as possible, and also Your free Member Number.

That's all there's to it.

We'll then send you info, and you can make up your own mind.

Looking forward to hearing from you!

Sincerely, 

James Carr:

P.S. After having several negative experiences with network
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0657AQRw4-144topi8447mxAN8-382kfXI0641Tjti0-939Jpl46

Cry Freedom.

Leonard Peltier's Freedom Requested by Canadian MPs
Yahoo! News - POLITICS-CANADA: MPs Want U.S. to Release Native Activist 
Peltier
OTTAWA, Nov 19 (IPS) - Canadian members of Parliament reiterated Tuesday 
that they want the U.S. government to free native activist Leonard Peltier, 
who was handed over to U.S. authorities after a controversial hearing 
riddled with perjured testimony.
[]
Kaufman concluded: ''I am satisfied that if this had been known when the 
extradition hearing took place, the request to extradite Peltier would 
likely have been refused.''
Several other Canadian judges, including Justice R.P. Anderson of the 
British Columbia Supreme Court, have commented on the case. ''It seems 
clear to me that the conduct of the U.S. government involved misconduct 
from the inception,'' said Anderson.
The key extradition hearing witness, Myrtle Poor Bear, later testified that 
the FBI coerced her into signing false affidavits stating she witnessed 
Peltier murder the two agents.
http://www.freepeltier.org/
Down the hall from Leonard...
http://www.crimelibrary.com/terrorists_spies/spies/boyce_lee/
Cruel and unusual punishment and depraved indifference par for the USA cours

Torture done correctly is a terminal process

2002-11-20 Thread Tim May

On Wednesday, November 20, 2002, at 12:49  PM, dmolnar wrote:


On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Tyler Durden wrote:


to have a big jpg of a hand with middle finger extended...) More than 
this,
they will have unknowingly destroyed the real data. (Perhaps a 3rd 
key is
needed that DOESN'T destroy the original data, just 'hides' it a la
Rubberhose.)

The question I've seen asked about this is then -- how do you get them 
to
stop beating you? If they know you might have some number of duress 
keys,
one of which might undetectably hide the data, what stops them from
beating you until

	1) you give them a key that shows them what they want to see
	2) you die

Maybe this isn't that different from the ordinary unencrypted case, 
where
if they don't find it on your HD they can accuse you of burying disks 
in
the backyard or something. Or is the goal protecting the data and not
protecting your life?

From my reading of tradecraft, as practiced by SAVAK, MOSSAD, GRU, 
etc., there is rarely anything to be gained by letting the target of 
torture survive. If he or she survives, she screams to the newspapers, 
"60 Minutes," etc.

And torturing a person to death maximizes the chances that a "later" 
confession will undo the earlier confession(s).

To the torturer, once the target has confessed, crank up the heat some 
more. More shocks to the genitals, more fingers cut off, another child 
raped and executed before her eyes, another eyeball removed, etc., then 
the process _must_ continue.

Once the target has actually died--not counting times brought back from 
clinical death with medical methods--then the "Total Information 
Awareness" (TM, DARPA) engineers can presumably say "We've gotten all 
we can get."

The United States draws heavily on Israel for torture methods, as their 
methods come from some of the best torturers the world has ever seen, 
their teachers at Auschwitz and Berlin Central.


--Tim May
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a 
monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also 
into you." -- Nietzsche

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Jane's Naval Forces News Briefs - 20 November 2002

2002-11-20 Thread Jane's News Briefs

Title: Jane's Naval Forces News Briefs: 20 November 2002






   

20 November 2002
  



   
 
  
 
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  Welcome to Jane's Naval Forces News Briefs
  
  
  NAVAL FORCES NEWS FOR WEEK ENDING 22 NOVEMBER 2002 
www.janes.com/defence/naval_forces
   

  
  

  
  

  

  
	  
 
  NAVAL FORCES www.janes.com/defence/naval_forces

  
  US Navy's focused mission ship concept studies awarded
Read
more here . . . 
[Jane's Navy International - 19 November 2002]
  Wider roles for RMS?
Lockheed Martin has made a study of potential future upgrades and
modifications
to its AN/WLD-1 Remote Minehunting Systems (RMS) to broaden
considerably
the role and scope of missions that the system could undertake,
even before
it enters into full-scale service with the US Navy (USN).
[Jane's Defence Upgrades - first posted to http://jdu.janes.com
- 16 November 2002]
  Design options revealed for US Navy combat ship
Details have emerged about radical new designs that could be used
for
the US Navy's Littoral Combat Ship (LCS), and the industrial teams
that
are offering them (Jane's Defence Weekly 3 July).
[Jane's Defence Weekly - first posted to http://jdw.janes.com
- 16 November 2002]
  Canadian Navy cuts back
The Canadian Navy is cutting back on operations and ship
maintenance as
it copes with the continuing high-tempo demands of the US-led
Operation
'Enduring Freedom' (OEF) and decreasing budgets.
[Jane's Defence Weekly - first posted to http://jdw.janes.com
- 16 November 2002]
  QinetiQ tests integrated waste management demonstrator
UK research and technology group QinetiQ has begun a 45-day trial
of a
land-based Integrated Waste-Management System Technology
Demonstrator
(IWMSTD) designed to prove out enabling technologies that could
realise
an environmentally independent warship for the UK Royal Navy (RN)
in the
2015 timeframe.
[Jane's Navy International - first posted to http://jni.janes.com
- 12 November 2002]
  Upgraded SLAM-ER enters USN service
The US Navy's (USN) AGM-84H Stand-off Land Attack Missile-Expanded
Response
(SLAM-ER) has been upgraded with a new Automatic Target
Acquisition (ATA)
system and is now cleared for operational use following a positive
operational
evaluation report signed on 3 September.
[Jane's Navy International - first posted to http://jni.janes.com
- 12 November 2002]
  Dutch team explores integrated topside design
Thales Nederland and the TNO research institute have embarked on a
three-year
study to investigate a future integrated topside sensor suite
under contract
to the Royal Netherlands Navy (RNLN) Directorate Materiel.
Two-thirds
of funding for the programme is coming from the Ministry of
Defence and
the Ministry of Economic Affairs.
[Jane's Navy International - first posted to http://jni.janes.com
- 12 November 2002]
  
   
  
 
   
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free like others within a year

2002-11-20 Thread cypherpunks

PARENTS OF 15 - YEAR OLD - FIND $71,000 CASH HIDDEN IN HIS CLOSET!
 
Does this headline look familiar? Of course it does. You most likely have just seen 
this story recently featured on a major nightly news program (USA and reported 
elsewhere in the world.
 
His mother was cleaning and putting laundry away when she came across a large brown 
paper bag that was suspiciously buried beneath some clothes and a skateboard in the 
back of her 15-year-old sons closet. Nothing could have prepared her for the shock she 
got when she opened the bag and found it was full of cash. Five-dollar bills, 
twenties, fifties and hundreds - all neatly rubber-banded in labeled piles.
 
"My first thought was that he had robbed a bank", says the 41-year-old woman, "There 
was over $71,000 dollars in that bag -- that's more than my husband earns in a year".
 
The woman immediately called her husband at the car-dealership where he worked to tell 
him what she had discovered. He came home right away and they drove together to the 
boy's school and picked him up. Little did  they suspect that where the money came 
from was more shocking than actually finding it in the closet.
 
As it turns out, the boy had been sending out, via E-mail, a type of "Report" to 
E-mail addresses that he obtained off the Internet. Everyday after school for the past 
2 months, he had been doing this right on his computer in his bedroom. 

"I just got the E-mail one day and I figured what the heck, I put my name on it like 
the instructions said and I started sending it out", says the clever 15-year-old.
 
The E-mail letter listed 5 addresses and contained instructions to send one $5 dollar 
bill to each person on the list, then delete the address at the top and move the 
others addresses down, and finally to add your name to the top of the list.
 
The letter goes on to state that you would receive several thousand dollars in 
five-dollar bills within 2 weeks if you sent out the letter with your name at the top 
of the 5-address list. "I get junk E-mail all the time, and really did not think it 
was going to work", the boy continues.
 
Within the first few days of sending out the E-mail, the Post Office Box that his 
parents had got him for his video-game magazine subscriptions began to fill up with 
not magazines, but envelopes containing $5 bills.
 
"About a week later I rode [my bike] down to the post office and my box had 1 magazine 
and about 300 envelops stuffed in it. There was also a yellow slip that said I had to 
go up to the [post office] counter.
 
I thought I was in trouble or something (laughs)". He goes on, "I went up to the 
counter and they had a whole box of more mail for me. I had to ride back home and 
empty out my backpack because I could not carry it all".
 
Over the next few weeks, the boy continued sending out the E-mail. "The money just 
kept coming in and I just kept sorting it and stashing it in the closet, barely had 
time for my homework". He had also been riding his bike to several of the banks in his 
area and exchanging the $5 bills for twenties, fifties and hundreds.
 
"I didn't want the banks to get suspicious so I kept riding to different banks with 
like five thousand at a time in my backpack. I would usually tell the lady at the bank 
counter that my dad had sent me in to exchange the money and he was outside waiting 
for me. One time the lady gave me a really strange look and told me that she would not 
be able to do it for me and my dad would have to come in and do it, but I just rode to 
the next bank down the street (laughs)."
 
Surprisingly, the boy did not have any reason to be afraid. The reporting news team 
examined and  investigated the so-called "chain-letter" the boy was sending out and 
found that it was not a chain-letter at all. In fact, it was completely legal 
according to US Postal and Lottery Laws, Title 18, Section 1302 and 1341, or Title 18, 
Section 3005 in the US code, also in the code of federal regulations, Volume 16, 
Sections 255 and 436, which state a product or service must be exchanged for money 
received.
 
Every five-dollar bill that he received contained a little note that read, "Please 
send me report number XYX". This simple note made the letter legal because he was 
exchanging a service (A Report on how-to) for a five-dollar fee.
 
[This is the end of the media release. If you would like to understand how the system 
works and get your $71,000 - please continue reading. What appears below is what the 
15 year old was sending out on the net - YOU CAN USE IT TOO - just follow the simple 
instructions]. 

###


You will make over half million dollars every 4 to five months from your home!! Be 
FINANCIALLY FREE LIKE OTHERS WITHIN A YEAR!!! Before you say, "Bull", please read the 
following: 

This is the letter you have been hearing about on the news lately. Due to the 
popularity of this letter on the Internet, a nation

Jane's Land Forces News Briefs - 20 November 2002

2002-11-20 Thread Jane's News Briefs

Title: Jane's Land Forces News Briefs: 20 November 2002






   

20 November 2002
  



   
 
  
 
  Home
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Defence 
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 Land
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Naval Forces   |   Air
Forces

  

  


   
  
 
  Welcome to Jane's
  Land Forces News Briefs
  
  LAND FORCES NEWS FOR WEEK ENDING 22 NOVEMBER 2002 
www.janes.com/defence/land_forces
   

  
  
   


  
  
  
	  
 
  LAND FORCES www.janes.com/defence/land_forces

  
  Greek-led team bids to upgrade Hellenic BMPs
The Greek company NIK Kioleides SA has recently teamed with the
Czech
Republic's VOP 026 overhaul-and-upgrading facility to develop a
comph
rensive upgrade package for the Soviet-designed BMP-1 and BMP-2
infantry
fighting vehicles (IFVs). With a view to upgrading some of the
Hellenic
Army's fleet of 501 former East German BMP-1s, examples of both
upgrades
were shown at the 12th Defendory defence exhibition held in
Pireas, Greece
(1-5 October 2002).
[Jane's Defence Upgrades - first posted to http://jdu.janes.com
- 16 November 2002]
  US-UK missile programme changes direction
A co-operative US-UK project to produce a common missile for
aviation
and ground systems has ceased to pursue a ground-based missile
that was
intended to replace the Tube-launched, Optically tracked
Wire-guided (TOW)
anti-tank missile, US officials said.
[Jane's Defence Weekly - first posted to http://jdw.janes.com
- 15 November 2002]
  Dutch army bears brunt of sweeping cuts
The Netherlands has announced the biggest cutback in its defence
capabilities
since the end of the Cold War.
[Jane's Defence Weekly - first posted to http://jdw.janes.com
- 15 November 2002]
  Decision delayed on trucks for UK forces
The UK Defence Procurement Agency (DPA) has delayed the potential
Pds1.4
billion ($2.2 billion) contract to supply more than 8,400 new
wheeled
support vehicles (SVs) for the UK armed forces (Jane's Defence
Weekly
7 August).
[Jane's Defence Weekly - first posted to http://jdw.janes.com
- 15 November 2002]
  Jordan unveils new turret for Al Hussein main battle tank
The King Abdullah II Design and Development Bureau (KADDB) of
Jordan,
in an exclusive briefing to Jane's Defence Weekly, has revealed
details
of an indigenously developed turret incorporating a 120mm
smooth-bore
gun. The intended platform for the turret is believed to be the
Jordanian
Armed Forces' Al Hussein (ex-British Army Challenger 1) main
battle tank
(MBT).
[Jane's Defence Weekly - first posted to http://jdw.janes.com
- 15 November 2002]
  
 
   
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Compilers Can "Optimize" Away Security Code (fwd)


http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,717141,00.asp


 --


We don't see things as they are,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
we see them as we are.   www.ssz.com
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Anais Nin www.open-forge.org

RE:Psuedo-Private Key (eJazeera)

2002-11-20 Thread jayh

Porn is one of the best places to steganographically hide info. Since many people keep 
their porn out of sight, and keep large numbers of photos on the drive, it doesn't 
look particularly suspicious to have a stash lying about, or to exchange with others.

j

Mathematical Logic: Some definitions

2002-11-20 Thread ravage

http://www.joh.cam.ac.uk/societies/moral/mathlogic.htm#completeness

Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem -- from MathWorld

2002-11-20 Thread ravage

Note the commentary about 'every statement in the language'...

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GoedelsIncompletenessTheorem.html

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-20 Thread Peter Fairbrother

Kevin Elliott wrote:

> 2) rifled muskets were not effective because of the ponderous reload
> time (I don't have precise figures, but the number 1/6th-1/10th the
> rate of fire of a smoothbore musket comes to mind)

There isn't that much difference in reload times - say 30 seconds for a
Kentucky rifle, as opposed to 20 seconds for a Brown Bess musket, for
well-trained troops. However, if you are in a volley line and waiting for
the last man to reload before firing a volley, that's a lifetime. Remember,
you are standing up to reload! Putting a few men armed with rifles in a line
of musketmen, they would seem useless, or worse, a liability.

Before I get flamed about those figures, may I point out that modern black
powder flintlock rifle shooters can and do shoot about one round a minute,
without trying to fire fast - a hotspot on the barrel can cause the powder
to cookoff unexpectedly, so they service the bore and touch hole between
shots, which slows them; but this isn't so important on the battlefield when
risks can be taken. It is said that Simon Kenton could reload his Kentucky
rifle in 12 seconds. The world record Springfield reload is about 6.5
seconds, a Brown Bess will take a bit longer than a Springfield.

At first glance the rifle was a better infantry weapon, but pitched battles
at 300 yards just didn't happen - and smoke obscuring the battlefield made
aimed shots difficult after a few volleys. Muskets weren't usually aimed,
just pointed in the right direction - musketmen were sometimes told to close
their eyes when firing to prevent injury from pan flash.

In volley fire it isn't really possible to aim - for aimed fire you need to
fire when the rifleman is ready, not on command. The superior accuracy of a
rifle is no use if you can't or don't aim it. The time taken to aim also
slows the rate of fire over an unaimed weapon.

Another problem was that early rifles weren't optimised for battle or use in
an army. It was often difficult starting the ball down the barrel, which can
slow reload time - there's a tool to do it, and you then use the ramrod, but
if the rifle/ball/patch combination is right you can start the ball by
hitting it with the ball of your hand, and the ramming can be quite quick.

Rifles were seldom fitted with bayonets, important to the tactics used at
the time - fire a volley or two, then a bayonet charge while your opponents
are reloading. They were also too fragile to use as a close quarter club.

Rifles weren't standardised either, so ammunition and parts couldn't be
shared and the riflemen had to cast/roll their own balls. Rifle balls need
to be more accurate than musket balls. Rifles take more training to use as
well.

But I think the main reason that rifles didn't play a bigger part, apart
from the usual military inertia (google Ferguson rifle for a British example
of this), was the simple lack of rifles, and their cost. Many men fighting
in the Revolutionary War didn't have any firearms at all.

-- 
Peter Fairbrother

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2002-11-20 Thread Bargain Network

Title: Bargain.com






	

	
		

 
 
 
 


  



   
   
   
  
 
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Re: Psuedo-Private Key (eJazeera)

From what I can grok this is not what I was looking for, but it IS a 
valuable tool.

What I'm talking about, I think, would be better in certain scenarios, as a 
rubber-hose-holder can be made to THINK they have the real data, whereas in 
reality they have a clever fake. (eg, instead of the real Cypherpunks wanted 
list, they have Tim May's fake one...of course, another possibility would be 
to have a big jpg of a hand with middle finger extended...) More than this, 
they will have unknowingly destroyed the real data. (Perhaps a 3rd key is 
needed that DOESN'T destroy the original data, just 'hides' it a la 
Rubberhose.)

And of course, we'd like to be able to do this on a message-by-message 
basis.






From: Keith Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Psuedo-Private Key (eJazeera)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:49:43 -0600

Quoting Tyler Durden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> WOULDN'T IT BE NICE...If the original encrypted message actually had TWO
> messages inside it, both very similar. In this example, one of the 
messages
> is the "incriminating" pictures of the demonstration, the other is 
pictures
> of Pam Anderson or whatever.
>
> Does this exist? Would it be difficult?

Rubberhose
by Julian Assange, Ralf P. Weinmann and Suelette Dreyfus
http://www.rubberhose.org/

Rubberhose transparently and deniably encrypts disk data, minimising the
effectiveness of warrants, coersive interrogations and other compulsive
mechanims, such as U.K RIP legislation. Rubberhose differs from 
conventional
disk encryption systems in that it has an advanced modular architecture,
self-test suite, is more secure, portable, utilises information hiding
(steganography / deniable cryptography), works with any file system and has
source freely available. Currently supported ciphers are DES, 3DES, IDEA, 
RC5,
RC6, Blowfish, Twofish and CAST.

 --
Keith Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- OpenPGP Key: 0x79269A12


_
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

RE: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who 's ne

2002-11-20 Thread Trei, Peter

> Tyler Durden[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> 
> 
> "In school yard politics this edge is normally a weapon
> of some sort that can equalize the playing field (guns usually in the US, 
> try going to an inner city public school for 2 years).  Saddam sees this
> and 
> that is what let him to develop those WMD, to equalize against a superior 
> foe / bully"
> 
> A good point from Mr Trei. I'd follow this up by saying that most kids,
> when 
> getting that weapon, do not plan on using it, but hope that it's presence 
> alone will act as a deterrent..."You c-c-can't push me around anymore
> 'cause 
> I got THIS..."
> 
> At the very least, it changes the nature of the discussion at the
> bargaining 
> table (this is precisely what Mao meant by "Diplomacy comes out of the 
> barrel of a gun".
> 
> The problem with Saddam, however, is that he does have a track record of 
> actually using such weapons, most notably with the Kurds (where he gassed
> a 
> few 10s of thousands).
> 
> Not a great scenario, no matter how you look at it.
> 
Just for the record, I did not write the quoted paragraph.
That was "Thoenen, Peter  Mr.  EPS" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Peter Trei

How IRS/TIGTA shares information with FBI

2002-11-20 Thread Declan McCullagh

released today...

http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-03-50R

Re: Onion Self-Censorship

2002-11-20 Thread Jack Reed

  Eric,

  It's cached at google here 
http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:aTDv7HqpUIsJ:www.theonion.com/onion3842/those_chechen_rebels.html+the+onion+chechen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

At 09:01 AM 11/20/02 -0800, Eric Cordian wrote:
Cable News is reporting that the Onion, America's Finest News Source, has
pulled from its Web site an article on the recent siege at the Moscow
theatre by Chechen rebels.

Does anyone have a copy of the article they could post?  I'd like to see
what sorts of comments about "terrorism" are unacceptable to publish, even
as parody.

--
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"


--
Jack Reed
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-20 Thread Tiarnan

> "MD" == Mike Diehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

MD> And the middle east is the only place we meddle?  I think not.
MD> But the middle east is the only place who has overtly attacked
MD> us.  

A minor point about grammar and logic: places don't attack, overtly or
covertly, neither are they persons, despite prevailing trends in
propaganda. It is just these kinds of elisions that make Bush and
Rumsfeld's machinations easier than they should be.

MD> Isolationism would eliminate all such meddling, but it
MD> would also prevent us from protecting our interestes abroad.
MD> Like it or not, we have interests.  Damned if we do, and
MD> damned if we don't.

>> Well, I agree that no human is absolved of personal
>> responsibility for their actions, no matter what the
>> "cause". That said, I firmly believe that if US foreign policy
>> all these years had been non-meddling, 9/11

MD> If we had never bothered them, they might still hate us.
MD> They'd still have religious, historical, political, and
MD> economic reasons to hate us.  You can't rationalize with
MD> people like this.  It's just like any "Holy War."

Please give examples of a Holy War fought without any view to economic
or political advantage. 

MD> Israeli tanks aren't the ONLY things that kill someone's kids.
MD> The whole region has been at war for 100's of years.  

You have to get some historical context to make the above statement
meaningful. Since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, European powers
(and, post WW-II, the US and Russia) have used the Middle East as a
playground for power politics. It's naive to attribute all of this to
"those crazy warlike Arabs".

MD> Israel backed down', they'd risk being the middle east's
MD> doormat forever.  

No immediate danger of that, I'd say, given that they're the only
country in the region with a modern military.

   MD> No, I think the Muslims need to back down,
MD> or be forced to.

Who, the Palestinians? The Afghans? The Indonesians? The Muslims in
Britain or America? The Nation of Islam? Refine your categories.

MD> And that is what makes these people so evil.

And the US so _good_?

T

We make money from home!

2002-11-20 Thread chris1956gocalry886

Greetings -

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 This message is not intended for residents of the state of
 Washington, and screening of addresses has been done to the best
 of our technical ability. If you are Washington resident or
 otherwise wish to be removed from this list, just follow the
 removal instructions above. 



6276MAl6

November monthly web draw...

2002-11-20 Thread dega_ww416



  

  
 
  
To automatically remove 
  your address, please send an email message with the word REMOVE 
  in the subject line to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]. 
  The word REMOVE must 
  be in the subject line for your request to be processed.

RE: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who 's ne

2002-11-20 Thread Mike Rosing

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Vincent Penquerc'h wrote:

> I just hope that Americans see this, and see that what they're
> going to get from this behavior isn't world domination, but either
> a genocide of half the planet, or a life in a bared wire world,
> with no freedom left, in a vain attempt to protect themselves
> against the rage they've patiently cultivated.

They don't see it at all.  They won't have a clue what hits 'em
when the "end comes" either.  Hell, even their top spys didn't
see the WTC plane attack.

There's a book that was written in the 1980's (I think) called
"The Peter Principle" - everyone rises to their level of incompetance.
The US has now reached a level of incompetence unmatched by any
but the Hapsburg's.  The totally insane in charge of the robots.

It sure don't look good from inside the barbed wire, that's
a fact.

Patience, persistence, truth,
Dr. mike

Re: Onion Self-Censorship

2002-11-20 Thread Robbie Honerkamp

On Wed, 2002-11-20 at 12:01, Eric Cordian wrote:

> Does anyone have a copy of the article they could post?  I'd like to see
> what sorts of comments about "terrorism" are unacceptable to publish, even
> as parody.

http://216.239.33.100/search?q=cache:aTDv7HqpUIsJ:www.theonion.com/onion3842/those_chechen_rebels.html+onion+chechen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Robbie

Re: Psuedo-Private Key (eJazeera)

2002-11-20 Thread Keith Ray

Quoting Tyler Durden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> WOULDN'T IT BE NICE...If the original encrypted message actually had TWO 
> messages inside it, both very similar. In this example, one of the messages 
> is the "incriminating" pictures of the demonstration, the other is pictures 
> of Pam Anderson or whatever.
> 
> Does this exist? Would it be difficult?

Rubberhose
by Julian Assange, Ralf P. Weinmann and Suelette Dreyfus
http://www.rubberhose.org/

Rubberhose transparently and deniably encrypts disk data, minimising the
effectiveness of warrants, coersive interrogations and other compulsive
mechanims, such as U.K RIP legislation. Rubberhose differs from conventional
disk encryption systems in that it has an advanced modular architecture,
self-test suite, is more secure, portable, utilises information hiding
(steganography / deniable cryptography), works with any file system and has
source freely available. Currently supported ciphers are DES, 3DES, IDEA, RC5,
RC6, Blowfish, Twofish and CAST.

 --
Keith Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- OpenPGP Key: 0x79269A12

Onion Self-Censorship

2002-11-20 Thread Eric Cordian

Cable News is reporting that the Onion, America's Finest News Source, has
pulled from its Web site an article on the recent siege at the Moscow
theatre by Chechen rebels.

Does anyone have a copy of the article they could post?  I'd like to see
what sorts of comments about "terrorism" are unacceptable to publish, even
as parody.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

please respond ASAP

2002-11-20 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Dr.Dafe igho

Dear Friend,
 I, on behalf of my colleagues from different Federal Government of
 Nigeria owned parastatals decided to solicit your assistance as regards
 transfer of US$10,500,000.00 (Ten Million,five Hundred Thousand US
 Dollars) into your bank account. These funds emanated from unclaimed
 contractual proceeds of foreign contracting firms who could not meet
 their financial obligations to their creditors. We,as holders of sensitive positions 
in our various parastatals, were
mandated by the Federal Government to scrutinise all payments made to
certain foreign contractors and we discovered that some of the contractors
have not been paid their contractual entitlement which collectively left
the sum of US$15,500,000.00 (Fiftheen Million, five Hundred Thousand US
Dollars) lying in a suspended Account. However, from our investigations,
we discovered that the foreign beneficiary companies have since been
liquidated, and to all intents and purposes no longer exist in Nigeria, thus providing 
us with this opportunity, provided that we have a capable
 partner, to execute a transaction of this nature. We agreed that the said
 amount would be transferred into an overseas Bank Account to be provided
 by a reliable foreign firm/associate. This is because as serving
 Government workers the Civil Service Code does not allow us to operate
 foreign Account. In our initial attempt to do this, we succeeded in
 transferring part of this amount US$5m (Five Million Dollars) into a
 United States Dollar Account in Beirut, Lebanon, but our foreign associate failed to 
honour our mutual agreement insisting
 instead that the total amount be transferred into the Account before we
 can share the money. As a result, we have lost confidence in the ability
 of our Lebanese partner to see this matter to its logical conclusion, and
 until the initial transaction is satisfactorily resolved, we have
 cancelled further transactions with him. In the light of the foregoing,
 it is clear that we require a partner that is not only capable of
 rendering assistance and cooperation in executing this matter, but will
 honour the terms of agreement when we reach the concluding stages of this
 transaction.We therefore offer the amount of 20%Of the entire sum in return for
services/assistance rendered in successfully carrying out this project. We
trust that you appreciate the sensitive nature of this matter and the need
for initial caution on our part, but when a relationship is confidently
established and operations commence you will be provided with all relevant
information. I remain at your disposal to entertain any
questions/enquiries relating to this proposition and you may contact me as
a matter of urgency via e-mail for further information on the procedures
and requirements of this transaction. In your reply, remember to indicate a safe 
telephone number where I can always reach
you. Hope to hear from you soon. Please treat with the strictest confidentiality and 
expediency
. Yours faithfully,
   Dr.Dafe igho



---
WWW.COM - Where The Web Begins! http://www.www.com/

上网赚钱，月薪3000！（这个是老外最讲信用的一¸

2002-11-20 Thread 91888

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To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:54:48 +0800
X-Priority: 3
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CAS

Use your computer to make money!

2002-11-20 Thread Brad6187u84





   Hello -


   You get emails every day, offering to show you how to make money.
   Most of these emails are from people who are NOT making any money.
   And they expect you to listen to them?


   Enough.


   If you want to make money with your computer, then you should
   hook up with a group that is actually DOING it.  We are making
   a large, continuing income every month.  What's more - we will
   show YOU how to do the same thing.


   This business is done completely by internet and email, and you
   can even join for free to check it out first.  If you can send
   an email, you can do this.  No special "skills" are required.

   How much are we making?  Anywhere from $2000 to $9000 per month.
   We are real people, and most of us work at this business part-time.
   But keep in mind, we do WORK at it - I am not going to 
   insult your intelligence by saying you can sign up, do no work,
   and rake in the cash.  That kind of job does not exist.  But if
   you are willing to put in 10-12 hours per week, this might be
   just the thing you are looking for.

   This is not income that is determined by luck, or work that is
   done FOR you - it is all based on your effort.  But, as I said,
   there are no special skills required.  And this income is RESIDUAL -
   meaning that it continues each month (and it tends to increase
   each month also).

   Interested?  I invite you to find out more.  You can get in as a
   free member, at no cost, and no obligation to continue if you
   decide it is not for you.  We are just looking for people who still
   have that "burning desire" to find an opportunity that will reward
   them incredibly well, if they work at it.

   To grab a FREE ID#, simply reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   and in the body of the email, write this phrase:

   "Grab me a free membership!"

   Be sure to include your:
   1. First name
   2. Last name
   3. Email address (if different from above)
   4. By submitting a request for a FREE DHS Club Membership, I agree
   to accept email from the DHS Club for both their consumer and
   business opportunities.

   We will confirm your position and send you a special report
   as soon as possible, and also Your free Member Number.

   That's all there's to it.

   We'll then send you info, and you can make up your own mind.

   Looking forward to hearing from you!

   Sincerely, 

   Brad Denton

   P.S. After having several negative experiences with network
   marketing companies I had pretty much given up on them.
   This is different - there is value, integrity, and a
   REAL opportunity to have your own home-based business...
   and finally make real money on the internet.

   Don't pass this up..you can sign up and test-drive the
   program for FREE.  All you need to do is get your free
   membership.

   Unsubscribing: Send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   with "Remove" in the subject line.

   This message is not intended for residents of the state of
   Washington, and screening of addresses has been done to the best
   of our technical ability.  If you are Washington resident or 
   otherwise wish to be removed from this list, just follow the
   removal instructions above.


0795PNXY0-389ySzy9241XrPo1-l25

Your PC's money-making power!

2002-11-20 Thread Brad3638x27





   Hello -


   You get emails every day, offering to show you how to make money.
   Most of these emails are from people who are NOT making any money.
   And they expect you to listen to them?


   Enough.


   If you want to make money with your computer, then you should
   hook up with a group that is actually DOING it.  We are making
   a large, continuing income every month.  What's more - we will
   show YOU how to do the same thing.


   This business is done completely by internet and email, and you
   can even join for free to check it out first.  If you can send
   an email, you can do this.  No special "skills" are required.

   How much are we making?  Anywhere from $2000 to $9000 per month.
   We are real people, and most of us work at this business part-time.
   But keep in mind, we do WORK at it - I am not going to 
   insult your intelligence by saying you can sign up, do no work,
   and rake in the cash.  That kind of job does not exist.  But if
   you are willing to put in 10-12 hours per week, this might be
   just the thing you are looking for.

   This is not income that is determined by luck, or work that is
   done FOR you - it is all based on your effort.  But, as I said,
   there are no special skills required.  And this income is RESIDUAL -
   meaning that it continues each month (and it tends to increase
   each month also).

   Interested?  I invite you to find out more.  You can get in as a
   free member, at no cost, and no obligation to continue if you
   decide it is not for you.  We are just looking for people who still
   have that "burning desire" to find an opportunity that will reward
   them incredibly well, if they work at it.

   To grab a FREE ID#, simply reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   and in the body of the email, write this phrase:

   "Grab me a free membership!"

   Be sure to include your:
   1. First name
   2. Last name
   3. Email address (if different from above)
   4. By submitting a request for a FREE DHS Club Membership, I agree
   to accept email from the DHS Club for both their consumer and
   business opportunities.

   We will confirm your position and send you a special report
   as soon as possible, and also Your free Member Number.

   That's all there's to it.

   We'll then send you info, and you can make up your own mind.

   Looking forward to hearing from you!

   Sincerely, 

   Brad Denton

   P.S. After having several negative experiences with network
   marketing companies I had pretty much given up on them.
   This is different - there is value, integrity, and a
   REAL opportunity to have your own home-based business...
   and finally make real money on the internet.

   Don't pass this up..you can sign up and test-drive the
   program for FREE.  All you need to do is get your free
   membership.

   Unsubscribing: Send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   with "Remove" in the subject line.

   This message is not intended for residents of the state of
   Washington, and screening of addresses has been done to the best
   of our technical ability.  If you are Washington resident or 
   otherwise wish to be removed from this list, just follow the
   removal instructions above.


6352wEQN5-028eHDs7967wxOQ9-050tIHg1879kBBT2-590ZKWb0416l52

Psuedo-Private Key (eJazeera)

Sorry to be a blabbermouth folks, but this one is interesting. Delete 
anything I've written in the last two days if ya' want.

Here's something I've been thinking about for various reasons. I'm assuming 
this doesn't exist yet, but it's such an interesting idea I'm tempted to 
brush the dust off my C programming books...

Here's what I 'want':
Let's say I've been coerced into revealing the private key to a certain 
encrypted message. And now, of course, the authorities use that key and open 
the message, and see the contents (let's assume they are picture of a 
demonstration or whatever).

WOULDN'T IT BE NICE...If the original encrypted message actually had TWO 
messages inside it, both very similar. In this example, one of the messages 
is the "incriminating" pictures of the demonstration, the other is pictures 
of Pam Anderson or whatever.

AND, this double message has two private keys associated with it: one 
corresponds to the Pam Anderson photos, the other corresponds to the 
Demonstration photos. When coerced, I give up the key that opens the Pam 
Anderson photos (while hopefully annhilating the Incriminating photos).

Of course, there's no way the authorities know that there was another 
message (not if done very cleverly...Pam Anderson photos might be a little 
obvious) that they destroyed when they used the fake Private Key.

Does this exist? Would it be difficult?




_
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Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Tyler Durden wrote:

> "Well, they have enough non-central leadership to all be against Israel and
> the US.  And to have been at war against the Israelies since Bible times..."
>
> OK, Mike, this is a good example of the kind of "facts" that lead to fairly
> easy (though erroneous) conclusions.
>
> Let's have some history here. The "Muslims" have not been at war against the
> "Israelites" since Biblical times. That is completely wrong. Hell, there
> haven't been any "Israelites" for nearly two millenia.

The labels we put on them today are irrelevant and actually hide the
facts (which is their intent after all, break the continuity of history
into nice neat chunks and it's easy to hide what really happened).

The -fact- is there was a culture in that region that was reasonably
consistent. At some point 4,000 years or so ago several 'sects' formed.
These sects were in general tolerated to start with, but as time went on
they were less and less tolerated. The secondary sects became what we
today call 'Jews'. As time went on these secondary sects congregated and
coalesced into a more consistent nearly-single entity under the banner of
Judaism. A little later this group faced its own fragmentation that led to
the Christians.

So historically what we have is the mother group (Islam) spawning a
splinter group (Jews). Which as time went by were persecuted by Islam. As
a result of these pressures (and probably a lot of others) the Jews
themselves split and we got Christians. The Jews were originally rather
tolerant but as time went by they became less tolerant. So Islam dumped on
the Jews, the Jews dumped on the Christians, the Christians dumped on them
both, and now Capitalism is dumping on all. It's the lack of recognition
of that last state that is so troublesome.

Greed <> Good.

These people did what they did not because of religion or politics, they
did it because people are xenophobic -and- clanish by nature. Comes from
being social animals. What these labels did do was provide a easy way to
tell them apart so people khew who to go to for help when attacked (or who
to to attack themselves). This emotional aspect of human psychology is
also what makes 'staying out of other peoples business' so hard. We
naturally believe we have -the- answer (and back to Godel we are).

Shibboleth comes to mind...

 --

We don't see things as they are,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
we see them as we are.   www.ssz.com
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Anais Nin www.open-forge.org

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Mike Diehl wrote:

> Granted.  I wish we could go back to isolationism, but as the worlds only
> remaining Super Power, that seems unlikely.  No matter what we do, we simply
> can't win.

Life isn't a football game, quite 'trying to win' and I think you'd find a
lot of issues just evaporate.

 --

We don't see things as they are,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
we see them as we are.   www.ssz.com
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Anais Nin www.open-forge.org

Morning Briefing, 11/20/2002

2002-11-20 Thread 21st Century Alert

Title: Morning Briefing, 11/20/2002

Click Here!

WEDNESDAY a.m.
November 20, 2002

Market Prisms

by David Nichols

I want to take a moment to reply to a subscriber's comment, because if one person can motivate to write an e-mail, there are plenty more who may also be interested in the topic.

The comment came in with the subject line "Total Confusion", and expressed dissastisfaction that there are too many conflicting opinions within our 21st Century Alert service. The suggestion followed that it was my job as Editor to straighten everyone out and forge a consensus.

I'm sorry, but I just don't think I want to do that. This would greatly devalue the service. A multitude of opinions is much more valuable than one opinion. In fact, it's never a good idea to rely too heavily on one person's opinion.

Every person involved in the market views it through his or her own prism. We each have only so many data points that we can look at to form this prism. The more you open your prism to input, the better chance you have to find your way through your own treacherous market journey.

We tend to become attracted to those whose thought process we respect. Who am I to make that decision for you? So not only will I not try to forge a consensus, I'm going to continue to try to obtain more qualified analysis.

No cliff jump yet

The big story yesterday was that the markets had a great chance to really get flushed, and it didn't happen.

Bonds gapped up in pre-market, setting the stage for a big decline in stocks. But bonds flopped right at resistance, and stocks again caught a bid at support.

So the short term story remains the same: stocks can't go up, but they can't go down either. But one thing is clear. The VIX and the OEX are definitely not signaling downtrends for the market, just yet. At this point they have done "nothing wrong". Stocks have just failed to deliver, so far, on some very promising upside set-ups.

Over the longer term, it's becoming clear that the markets are going to have to go back down at some point over the next few months to disturb the bullish surplus that's building. The most ominous thing for the longer term is that the VIX is reaching levels seen at the prior top in August, but the market is a about 30 points lower on the OEX. The same bullish sentiment is being seen at lower levels in the market, which is invariably a bearish development.

At some point in the future, the market will have to knock out some bullishness, to store up fuel for a bigger uptrend.

But this doesn't mean that the market can't burn the sentiment tank down to 20 on the VIX in the meanwhile, sending the markets higher. The toppy chart of bonds argues strongly for this, and you can even make a very convincing case that the bond market is the bigger sentiment tank for the stock market right now.

There is tons of fuel available from the bond market to push stocks higher. With bond yields at historic lows, the end of the multi-decade bull market in bonds may be at hand, and money flowing out of bonds could be an unstoppable force if it is unleashed on the stock market.

Sentiment

In the short-term, the momentum of sentiment has the markets in a downtrend. This was a window of opportunity for the markets to really tank, but it didn't happen. This supports the bullish case.

In the intermediate-term, sentiment is still extending the uptrend, but it is reaching a potential waning point. But it hasn't reversed yet.

The longer-term sentiment remains in an uptrend, with the the weekly VIX clearly showing bullish momentum off a climactic double top.

Note: we're close to finishing up our new "sentiment dashboard" for the markets, and that graphic should be appearing here shortly. We're busy tweaking it now to make it very easy to read, at a glance.

Definitions

This Morning Briefing is brought to you by 21st Century Alert.
Your 21st Century Alert subscription offers so much more.
Click here to go to
21st Century Alert's Web site.

You can find this article on the Web at:
http://www.21stcenturyalert.com/page/tcx/morningbriefing/2002-11-20/

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username and password so that you can access the Morning
Briefing archives on our Web site,
click here.

Re: CDR: RE: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get theoil. Who 's ne

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Trei, Peter wrote:

> Mike, I hate to break it to you, but Muslims did not exist before
> 612 AD, when Mohammed received a vision of the Archangel
> Gabriel.

Peter, I hate to break it to you but the 'religion' may not have existed
per se but the people and culture did.

The fact is, whatever you want to call them, the pre-cursor culture of
Allah -did- exist and -did- persecute the to-be Christians.

Rather moots your point.

You should read more Cambell.

 --

We don't see things as they are,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
we see them as we are.   www.ssz.com
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Anais Nin www.open-forge.org

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

"As to dangerous, I find that most of the people using violence in this
country are anti-drug, not pro."

Can't exactly agree with ya' here. Just watch COPS...most of those actually 
committing stupid crimes are apparently pro-Alchohol.

Pot? We can't have THAT be legalized now, or the CIA will lose a valuable 
source of covert action funding.

From: Jim Choate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC: Alif The Terrible <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. 
Who's ne
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 00:50:09 -0600 (CST)

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Mike Diehl wrote:

> As to drugs and employment.  I'm glad to see that you recognized that a
> programer, like myself, has far fewer responsibilities than a (mere?)
> babysitter.  But, I still don't want to go to work with someone who is 
high
> on something.  When people are high, they are unpredictable, and 
potentially
> dangerous.  Drugs are a form of escapism.

That is complete and total bullshit. The fact -some- drugs have problems
doesn't equate to -all- drugs.

Further, people are unpredictable in and of themselves. Drugs or no drugs.
As to dangerous, I find that most of the people using violence in this
country are anti-drug, not pro.

When was the last time a group of pot heads kicked anyones door down?

 --

We don't see things as they are,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
we see them as we are.   www.ssz.com
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Anais Nin www.open-forge.org

_
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online 
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who'sne

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Mike Diehl wrote:

> And the middle east is the only place we meddle?  I think not.  But the
> middle east is the only place who has overtly attacked us.

Revisionist, and incorrect, history.

Somalia isn't in the middle east.
Britian isn't in the middle east.
Mexico isn't in the middle east.
Spain isn't in the middle east.
France isn't in the middle east.
Japan isn't in the middle east.
Germany isn't in the middle east.
etc.

The world is one big place, we can't escape having to deal with other
groups. We -could-, but don't, execute those commercial interactions (w/
regard to -both- definitions of commerce) as equals.

That is a -choice we make-.

 --

We don't see things as they are,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
we see them as we are.   www.ssz.com
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Anais Nin www.open-forge.org

Re: 17 Cypherpunks subscribers on watch list, Project Lookout

2002-11-20 Thread Mike Rosing

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Eric Cordian wrote:

> This of course is not a true tale, but an incredible simulation to make a
> point.

Yeah, it was funny.  Not sure what the point was...

> The earth currently has a population of just slightly over six billion
> people.  This means that a 200 gigabyte drive can store 256 bits of
> information on every single person on the planet, and you can hold it in
> the palm of your hand, and use it for any devious purpose you can
> conceive.

Yup, and in 2 years it'll be 2k bits.  That's still not a whole lot,
but in 5 years it'll be 2k bytes and now things get interesting.

> Supercomputers are just about to reach, and then surpass, human brain
> equivalent capacity in both OPS and memory.  A few more years, and these
> supercomputers will be desktops.

Not even close  A super computer can't deal with an insect's
capability today, let alone a mouse.  It will be another 100 years before
all the computing capcity on the planet begins to approach the capability
of mice.  We already have 1980's supercomputers for desktops, why
aren't terrorists building their own nukes from scratch?  Because it
requires _thinking_, not just memory and ops.  And guess what dude,
nobody knows what thinking is.  If we did, we'd build computers that
could think.

> There are companies that now hire only non-smokers.  In the future, this
> could just as easy become never-smoked, never used drugs, had a perfect
> attendance record in the Gubmint School, and never criticized the
> President.

Just like the police today - if they tried to hire only people who
never smoked pot, they'd not be able to hire *anyone*!  So guess what,
keeping track of all that crap isn't useful.  Don't ask, don't tell
works all the way up the chain :-)

Patience, persistence, truth,
Dr. mike

Free Doctor approved enlargement pills

2002-11-20 Thread cpunks_anon

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RE: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who 's ne

"In school yard politics this edge is normally a weapon
of some sort that can equalize the playing field (guns usually in the US, 
try going to an inner city public school for 2 years).  Saddam sees this and 
that is what let him to develop those WMD, to equalize against a superior 
foe / bully"

A good point from Mr Trei. I'd follow this up by saying that most kids, when 
getting that weapon, do not plan on using it, but hope that it's presence 
alone will act as a deterrent..."You c-c-can't push me around anymore 'cause 
I got THIS..."

At the very least, it changes the nature of the discussion at the bargaining 
table (this is precisely what Mao meant by "Diplomacy comes out of the 
barrel of a gun".

The problem with Saddam, however, is that he does have a track record of 
actually using such weapons, most notably with the Kurds (where he gassed a 
few 10s of thousands).

Not a great scenario, no matter how you look at it.








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Plum Island

2002-11-20 Thread Declan McCullagh

From the Department of Homeland Security bill...

SEC. 310. TRANSFER OF PLUM ISLAND ANIMAL DISEASE 22
CENTER, DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE. 23
(a) IN GENERAL.In accordance with title XV, the 24
Secretary of Agriculture shall transfer to the Secretary of 25
Homeland Security the Plum Island Animal Disease Cen- 1
ter of the Department of Agriculture, including the assets 2
and liabilities of the Center. 3
(b) CONTINUED DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AC- 4
CESS.On completion of the transfer of the Plum Island 5
Animal Disease Center under subsection (a), the Secretary 6
of Homeland Security and the Secretary of Agriculture 7
shall enter into an agreement to ensure that the Depart- 8
ment of Agriculture is able to carry out research, diag- 9
nostic, and other activities of the Department of Agri- 10
culture at the Center. 11
(c) DIRECTION OF ACTIVITIES.The Secretary of 12
Agriculture shall continue to direct the research, diag- 13
nostic, and other activities of the Department of Agri- 14
culture at the Center described in subsection (b). 15
(d) NOTIFICATION. 16
(1) IN GENERAL.At least 180 days before any 17
change in the biosafety level at the Plum Island Ani- 18
mal Disease Center, the President shall notify Con- 19
gress of the change and describe the reasons for the 20
change. 21
(2) LIMITATION.No change described in para- 22
graph (1) may be made earlier than 180 days after 23
the completion of the transition period (as defined in 24
section 1501. 25

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Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-20 Thread cubic-dog

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Kevin Elliott wrote:

> At 14:06 -0700  on  11/19/02, Mike Diehl wrote:
> >>  The british got VERY upset with us because of a tendency
> >>  to shoot officers which was considered very bad "form".  I believe it
> >>  was common practice to hang anyone found armed with a rifle for what
> >>  amounted to war crimes.  But again, very poor rate of fire kept them
> >>  from replacing the smoothbore.
> >
> >This probably stemmed from the aristocratic culture of the times?
> 
> It's probably partly historical as well (meaning there used to be a 
> good reason).  Think about a large conscript army, basically 
> completely undisciplined by todays standard.  Very poor 
> communication, so the officer core on site has nearly complete 
> autonomy.  Killing a large piece of that officer core could very well 
> remove any constraints on the soldiers behavior.  Next thing you know 
> the orderly army has turned into a marauding barbarian horde.  That's 
> not good for either side.
>

I always thought this was hype generated by the Officer cadre to
cover their butts.
Discipline was dolled out by the NCOs, not officers. Killing the
officers might piss off a few, but certainly not all, esp in a
conscript unit. The NCOs are in charge, the Officers have the 
agenda. Kill the officer, kill the agenda.

RE: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. W ho's ne

2002-11-20 Thread cubic-dog

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Kevin Elliott wrote:
> My original point was about the more general topic of unit tactics 
> during the revolution.  Disciplined formation fighting and volley 
> fire is THE way to win large scale musket engagements.  Any other way 
> gets you clubbed to death by weight of fire.  A pet peeve of mine is 
> the implicit assumption that seems to have been nailed into out 
> public school children (including me) that the british tactics in the 
> revolutionary war basically boiled down to "they were stupid idiots". 
> A more careful reading of history shows this to be simply untrue.

I had a problem with this line since probably about 4th grade. 
Now, I grew up in the day when it was okay to go run around
in the woods divided up into teams of yanks and krauts and reenact
our various uncles recollections of the Battle of the Bulge, some
of us using using captured Mausers or uncle Bill's Springfield sans
bolts as our toys. The rich kids had Johnny Eagle toy guns and
some others Mattel. 

That aside, we'd go out and "re-enact" and come home and ask questions
of our warrior fathers and friends warroir fathers and get corrected
a lot. Our Dad's Uncles and such told us about smoothbore, some of
us got to shoot them. Compared with our .22s at summer camp, you couldn't
hit crap with these things. We were told that to use cover and concealment 
and pick off the enemy was just fine, but in order to Win The Day, you 
had to go toe to toe with him on the battlefield and beat him down. That 
in essence, what we were being taught in school was crap.

What do kids today do? How do they learn to war?

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Tyler Durden wrote:

> >Granted.  I wish we could go back to isolationism, but as the worlds >only
> >remaining Super Power, that seems unlikely.  No matter what we >do, we
> >simply can't win.  When faced with a game I can't win, I either >decide to
> >not play, or I cheat.  For the US, the first isn't an option.
>
> Waitaminute...I think I understand your point, but NOT meddling in the
> affairs of the middle east is by no means "isolationism".

EXACTLY! It's a pity more people don't see this particular point as
either/or.

I deal with my local grocer all the time, but they -never- get involved in
my personal domestic issues.

No, this observation actually leads to one of the primary problems of our
world today (and yesterday, and tomorrow). Unfortunately because it is so
very seldom voiced it is unstudied.

 --

We don't see things as they are,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
we see them as we are.   www.ssz.com
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Anais Nin www.open-forge.org

See You There .....

2002-11-20 Thread GU7013v38



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urgent

2002-11-20 Thread JOHNKABBAH

ATTN:PRESIDENT/CEO.
FROM:JOHN KABBAH
TEL: +31-623148297

  URGENT BUSINESS PROPOSAL.
DEAR Sir,
I got to know about you through business world wide directory, I 
am the elders son of Dumbaya Kabbah of Sierra Leone West Africa who 
was arrested and detained by the ECOMONG which led to my seeking 
political asylum in Holland the Netherlands.
My purpose of writing you this letter is to seek for your assistant, 
before i flew out of my country,I arranged with a diplomatic courier 
services to help by sending me a box that contain US$15,000.000.00. 
DOLLAS (fifteen million united sate dollars..
This money was suppose to be used in buying weapon by my father 
nobody no that the box contain money it was only me and my father 
who knows the content. I send it as personal effect, the box arrived 
Holland last week and i was told to come and clear it with the SEA 
AND AIR DIPLOMATIC SECURITY SERVICES with certain amount of dollars 
being cost of shipment /handling charges.
Presently this proposal is to inform you that i need your assistant 
as regards the clearing of this box as i am finacialy handicap base on my present 
predicament .
However base on the content in the box i deem it not fit to disclosed 
to anybody including the security company. We need to haste up for 
the immedaite clearance of the box from the security company this 
is to aviod accumulation of demurrage and for onward transfer into 
your nominated bank account further investment in any business area of your interest.
If you are interested to help me for the conllection of the box, 
both of us will go into an arranment as per percentage. As a young 
man i dont what to bring my seif out because  i am on political 
asylum (refugee) procedure Netherlands.
As soon you indicate you williness to assisst me on this regards, 
you shall be require to come down to Amsterdam for a brief meeting 
with me before the subsequent procedure of the clearing the box.
Please treat this letter highly confidential, As i expected to hear from you soonest.
Please call me on the above number for more discussions.
CONTACT ME ON THIS E-MAIL:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thanks for your anticipated cooperation.

Best regards,

StartTLS for Opportunistic Email Encryption with Postfix

2002-11-20 Thread Eugen Leitl

as mentioned on the cryptography list

http://www.homeport.org/~adam/starttls.html

StartTLS for Opportunistic Email Encryption with Postfix

Lots and lots of sites use StartTLS for encrypting local email, usually so 
that they can hide passwords when SMTP auth is used. But, StartTLS also 
gives you the ability to opportunisticly encrypt mail as it heads across 
the Internet. This document builds on Patrick Koetter's STMTP/StartTLS 
docs, and starts where they say "That's it. Your done. Have fun."

Pre-conditions: Have postfix installed and running. Have StartTLS going 
when postfix is a server.
Post-conditions: Postfix will act as a starttls client, encrypting mail 
when the other side speaks TLS.

Now, this is really easy. Let me simply offer up the relevant bits of my 
postfix main.cf:

smtp_use_tls = yes
smtp_tls_note_starttls_offer = yes
smtp_tls_key_file = /etc/postfix/certs/newreq.pem
smtp_tls_cert_file = /etc/postfix/certs/newcert.pem

smtpd_tls_session_cache_database = sdbm:/etc/postfix/smtpd_scache

Now, the first two lines should be obvious. I'm not 100% clear on why we 
need them both, but we seem to.

The second two are the same values as my smtpd_tls_key_file and 
smtpd_tls_cert_file. They're not in the same place as M. Koetter put them, 
but thats a trivial difference. I like the certs directory because it 
keeps things neat.

If everything has worked as planned, your mail recieved headers will get 
better, looking something like this:

Received: from Alice
  (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits))  
  (No client certificate requested) 
  by Bob (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC7593008F
  for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
  Wed,  2 Oct 2002 15:20:39 -0400 (EDT)

If everything is not working as planned, turn up your log levels. Odds are 
good you're already trading mail with people using starttls.

And that's it. You're done. Have fun.
Why?
Because some people want to read your email. Others don't. But it should 
be your choice.
Adam Shostack
Last modified: Mon Oct 28 19:50:10 EST 2002

White trash of asia are the second hardest workers behind South Koreans.

The papers never lie,right?
It was the Murdoch-owned London tabloid The Sun that broke the Crowe story 
and first published the photos of the heated exchange in Zuma, an upmarket 
Japanese restaurant. Strangely where Murdoch appears in NW's photos, he 
vanishes in The Sun's identical shots. The Sun ran eight pictures of Crowe, 
the same images that appear in NW, yet Murdoch isn't seen in any of them - 
nor was he identified as being among the Crowe party at Zuma.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/11/19/1037697661477.html
Moving right along...
We work harder...
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/11/19/1037697661477.html
Whoops sorry,thats one for realdoll fans,here is what I'm saying...
A translation of the letter says the writer has no connection with the Bali 
bombing.
But it adds: "The Bali explosions came as a response to our wish to warn 
Australia from taking the line of America and Israel against the Arab and 
Islamic countries.
"We have no connection with the Bali incident and if we were behind it we 
would have announced it to the world without fear as we have our motives 
and causes.
"But if you have not learnt the lesson and did not understand the meaning 
and if you continue to humiliate Islam and Muslims there will be nobody to 
stop us from threatening your interests around the world and inside your 
country in a way that would fill you with terror and fright that you have 
brought to yourselves."
The letter ends:"On behalf of Sheikh Osama Bin Laden God Protect Him." Mr 
Frances said the letter was written by someone of high intelligence with 
excellent calligraphy skills and a knowledge of the Koran.
No,thats not me,thats not me at all,see what I'm saying is...
Hostility hits at the heart
HOSTILE men are more prone to heart disease, medical investigators have found.
Brain damage, not a blocked airway, may be the cause of a sleeping disorder 
that causes explosively loud snoring and fitful nights, US researchers said 
today.
Scientists at the University of California at Los Angeles say patients with 
the disorder, known as sleep apnea, also show a dramatic early loss of grey 
matter.
SHIT! sorry,that was bedtime for Mongo.
Look I can't find that survey that disturbingly indicates that we are 
infected with a protestant,if not calvinistic work ethic outstripping even 
the japanese.
I haven't noticed any reports of blokes dying on the job lately,(since 
Billy Snedden anyway.) Look I'll get back to on this,it's a real worry.

Practical Paranoia.

http://sydney.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=23532&group=webcast
I have noticed that the confirmed terrorists messages always include 
religious references...are all the hard core religious leaders of all 
religions being closely watched?
Many have already been implicated in atrocious crimes that go beyond reason 
itself.
Then theres the issue of schools,a lot of these terrorists seem to have 
gone to religious schools.
As an anti-terrorism measure could we now separate religion totally from 
education?
Outlaw religious teachers completely to be safer.
Then theres the fact many of the terrorists seem to hate culture and art so 
we should sack all OUR censors or at the very least watch THEM like hawks.
Anti-terrorism starts at home.
As the terrorists seem to be extremely 
reactionary,authoritarian,patriarchal and religious is it to much to ask 
that all those fitting that description be closely watched for anti social 
misanthropic behaviour?
If this is profiling then keep it informal as it is also self protection.
The terrorists are using money gained from the chaos and corruption of 
places like central asia and africa.
Surely we can fight them indirectly by reversing the conditions in those 
places?
Empowering women seems to be the quickest way to bring down an 
unsustainable birthrate and improve quality of life in these places,though 
I am no expert.
It may be too much to hope for a reversal of the policy of favouring a 
terrorist police state and colony that regularly murders muslims with 
weapons made in the USA,but we can still do a lot in our little neck of the 
woods.
Personally we can do a first aid course and do our best to build up our 
universal health scheme.The lack of that is something the yanks have 
recognized as a major weakness in their homeland security.
We can carry some common first aid items at all times and be familiar with 
their use.
I don't belive it is a good time to ban guns...it is a good time to widely 
DISTRIBUTE responsible weapons such as e-lockable guns.(www.metalstorm.com)
We can increase our *paranoia* the more crowded we get and avoid 'found' 
objects like those left in bins outside Hilton hotels.
The government wont say this but I will,AVOID USA 
OUTLETS,CROWDS,BUILDINGS,PLANES,TRAINS and INFRASTRUCTURE.
Do your christmas shopping now.
This could be a good time while we huddle at home to remember that the 
British empire used us as cannon fodder in WW2,(at Alemain)and that they 
let Singapore fall with their racist assumptions while attempting to retain 
ANZUS troops on the other side of the world.
While we can't get rid of USA bases overnight we can surely see now just 
how provocative they are and have been to Muslims since the 1973 yom kippur 
nuclear alert.
The european colonizations have been reversed everywhere EXCEPT occupied 
Palestine.Lets stop supporting King Canute here.
Will turning Perth into an R and R town,(much like Sydney was when heroin 
flooded in), really add to our national security?
WA is starting to look like terrorist central with a history of 'dirty 
bombs',Aum death cults and now paintball training grounds alleged.
To sum up,lets clean up our own back yard and maybe take a leaf from our 
kiwi mates and say goodbye to Uncle Sam.
It is disturbing that those most responsible for lousy policy seem to 
gaining the most mileage,lets all take some deep breaths and start to equip 
ourselves with the tools we need much as we now do for a bushfire.
When it comes down to it,it is us who will have to deal with the mistakes 
made by our political masters.
Comment.
Be responsible
by Re Sponsible

Persons or persons unknown especially those recently assaulted,pushed and 
shoved by police should not go out and use public phones and internet cafes 
to make hoax calls and run police ragged.
They especially should not where gloves and disguise their 'voice' and vary 
their routine as this makes them hard to catch.
Should an actual incident occur it would be an horrific crime to add to it 
by diverting resources with fake alarms and alerts.
You could do it,BUT IT WOULD BE WRONG.Re Sponsible.

PS,does anyone know the exact adress of the emergency centre? I have some 
'eye's only'information that a know terrorist is openly using these 
boards.Post it here in ay-pig-latin-ay.

Business will be crippled.

Governments will collapse,empires will fall,END of THE WORLD!
Chernin said. "Stealing content is destroying opportunities for digital 
entertainment...Business will be crippled."
News Corp. Chief Operating Officer Peter Chernin said it was time for the 
"looting epidemic" to end, citing losses from copyright infringement that 
he estimated were in the $8 billion range.
Chernin is one of the first media executives at Comdex to focus on 
file-trading, an issue that has caused considerable tension between 
entertainment and tech companies. Companies such as TiVo, Microsoft and 
other PC makers have tried to tout the capabilities of their devices 
without raising the ire of media companies. But media giants are hesitant 
to support the development of products such as DVD burners and digital 
video recorders, which can play, copy and distribute content.
File-sharing programs such as Napster, Kazaa and Morpheus have been a 
headache for music companies, and Chernin predicted that similar illicit 
copying would occur in the movie industry. At one point in his speech, he 
invited filmmaker George Lucas to "wave a little flag" and let people know 
that "there is no free lunch...Somebody somewhere is paying for it" when 
digital content is stolen. EXTRACT.
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-966457.html?tag=fd_top
TANSTAAFL,yes,what starship stormtrooper here could argue with dat?
Its the free market right Mongo? Galts Gulch.
Anarcho-capitalism and any bums wot get in the way I drive over in my Explorer.
Wave your little libertarian flag Mong,for auld lang syne.
http://www.radio4all.org/anarchy/huckster.html

RE: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who 's ne

2002-11-20 Thread Vincent Penquerc'h

> Israeli tanks aren't the ONLY things that kill someone's 
> kids.  The whole 
> region has been at war for 100's of years.  If Israel backed 

You do realize that the whole world has been at war for hundreds
of years, do you ? Israel is now the bully in the region, and is
conforted in keeping this role by the US support.
This does not mean at all that this was always the case. Of course
there were other bullies in the past, and possibly now too. This
should not mean that this should excuse this particular bully.

It is my opinion that, after the fall of the USSR, which I saw
as a good thing, the US are now becoming much too dangerous and
need to fall, too. Having two nuke crazed countries in the world
was dangerous, but at least they were keeping tabs on each other.
I am frankly scared of what the US are becoming today. Of their
government's covert/overt manipulations, dishonesty, and violence.

Of course, I do realize that they are not alone in this game, and
that all others are doing the same kind of things. However, the
US are now in a position to do this more easily, with more power,
and still get away with it, which makes them so much more dangerous. They
don't need actual weapons to maim any more.

I just hope that Americans see this, and see that what they're
going to get from this behavior isn't world domination, but either
a genocide of half the planet, or a life in a bared wire world,
with no freedom left, in a vain attempt to protect themselves
against the rage they've patiently cultivated.

-- 
Vincent Penquerc'h

The Marc Rich oil slick.