Re: Durden lies, was: Echelon-like resources...
Yo! I didn't write anything of the kind. Actually, this post mystifies me...even had I posted those quotations, as scary as they may be, I don't understand Anonymous' reaction to them (waitaminute...maybe I do understand...it's interesting to consider that the sender seems to have gone to some trouble to remain anonymous for a relatively banal post). As for "the point", as a newbie here (I was an optical network engineer from 95 to recently, now on $$$-street), I wanted to raise the issue that looking at the crytpography issue "statistically" may yield conclusions that contradict a more "linear", message-by-message examination of certain issues. For instance, I would be interested to see a response from the powers that be, if a credible grass-roots push were made to encourage everyone, from children to senior citizens, to use a lite form of cryptography (yes, such as in Lotus Notes) on EVERY message they sent. Or perhaps you've all discussed this before, but the responses I've seen so far don't indicate that. From: Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tyler Durden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Durden lies, was: Echelon-like resources... Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:33:46 +0200 (CEST) On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:29:53 -0400, you wrote: > > "War is just a racket ... something that is not what it seems to the > majority of people. Only a small group knows what its about. It is > conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the > masses." --- Major General Smedley Butler, 1933 > > "Our overriding purpose, from the beginning through to the present > day, has been world domination - that is, to build and maintain the > capacity to coerce everybody else on the planet: nonviolently, if > possible, and violently, if necessary. But the purpose of US foreign > policy of domination is not just to make the rest of the world jump > through hoops; the purpose is to faciliate our exploitation of > resources." > - Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General Is there some reason you want to publish these bogus, uncitationed, false, propaganda quotations? Just adding to misinformation? Preferring to further downgrade the public discourse? Planting lies for subsequent citation as proof of something? What an asshole. _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: Durden lies, was: Echelon-like resources...
On Friday 11 October 2002 14:13, Trei, Peter wrote: > If anonymous were a person of character... Oxymoron, eh? Pseudonymity has many socially acceptable features. Anonymity has all of the practical benefits of pseudonymity and no additional advantages in a conversational forum such as cpunks. Anonymous persons (or dumbassbots; it's hard to tell sometimes) who snipe from behind the veil may be assumed to be cowardly jackasses. -- Steve FurlongComputer Condottiere Have GNU, Will Travel Vote Idiotarian --- it's easier than thinking
Re: Durden lies, was: Echelon-like resources...
You have to realize that there are any number of fedzis who subscribe to this list, it's a well authenticated fact, matter of court testimony. And fedzis aren't noted for brains, or even being able to read, which is why he attacked you instead of me. And of course most fedzis positively foam at the mouth when hearing the truth being spoken, thus the rabid nature of his spewing. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com "War is just a racket ... something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small group knows what its about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses." --- Major General Smedley Butler, 1933 "Our overriding purpose, from the beginning through to the present day, has been world domination - that is, to build and maintain the capacity to coerce everybody else on the planet: nonviolently, if possible, and violently, if necessary. But the purpose of US foreign policy of domination is not just to make the rest of the world jump through hoops; the purpose is to faciliate our exploitation of resources." - Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General http://www.thesunmagazine.org/bully.html
Re: Durden lies, was: Echelon-like resources..
At 02:11 PM 10/11/2002 -0700, James Donald wrote: > > > > "Our overriding purpose, from the > > > > beginning through to the present > > > > day, has been world domination - . > > > > Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General From: "Trei, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > The Sun is an alternative news magazine > which has been in print since 1974. > It's mammothly unlikely that they would > fabricate the interview out of whole > cloth, since Clarke would sue for libel > and/or defamation. On the contrary, this is standard routine communist behavior. They are always inventing fantastic citations, [...] But that's just the kind of thing Ramsey Clark would say. Not Ramsey Clark in his position as spokescritter for the military-industrial complex explaining how great the US is, but Ramsey Clark the well-known leftist critic of US policy describing what he thinks US policy has been. ~ As opposed to Linus Torvalds's followers talking about their objectives for World Domination :-)
Re: Durden lies, was: Echelon-like resources..
> > > > "Our overriding purpose, from the > > > > beginning through to the present > > > > day, has been world domination - > > > > that is, to build and maintain > > > > the capacity to coerce everybody > > > > else on the planet: nonviolently, > > > > if possible, and violently, if > > > > necessary. But the purpose of US > > > > foreign policy of domination is > > > > not just to make the rest of the > > > > world jump through hoops; the > > > > purpose is to faciliate our > > > > exploitation of resources." - > > > > Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney > > > > General From: "Trei, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > The Sun is an alternative news magazine > which has been in print since 1974. > It's mammothly unlikely that they would > fabricate the interview out of whole > cloth, since Clarke would sue for libel > and/or defamation. On the contrary, this is standard routine communist behavior. They are always inventing fantastic citations, for example the much quoted "Intoxicating Augmentation" quote that Karl Marx attributed to Gladstone (then prime minister of England) which generation after generation learned scholars have learnedly cited as evidence that free market capitalism was bad for workers. Since Clarke is a public figure he cannot sue for libel, so he is a good peg to hang such a citation on. If Karl Marx could get away with attributing fantastic citations to the Prime Minister, "the sun" can certainly get away with attributing them to an attorney general. The enormous flood of such bogus citations make it unlikely that any one of them will be challenged. Look at Chomsky. Every few pages he has a similarly fraudulent citation, and no one ever sues him, even though in some cases one can check the materials he cites, and find that he is lying. Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: Durden lies, was: Echelon-like resources...
At 06:33 PM 10/11/2002 +0200, Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:29:53 -0400, you wrote: > > > > "War is just a racket ... something that is not what it seems to the > > majority of people. Only a small group knows what its about. It is > > conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the > > masses." --- Major General Smedley Butler, 1933 > > > > "Our overriding purpose, from the beginning through to the present > > day, has been world domination - that is, to build and maintain the > > capacity to coerce everybody else on the planet: nonviolently, if > > possible, and violently, if necessary. But the purpose of US foreign > > policy of domination is not just to make the rest of the world jump > > through hoops; the purpose is to faciliate our exploitation of > > resources." > > - Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General > >Is there some reason you want to publish these bogus, uncitationed, false, >propaganda quotations? >Just adding to misinformation? Preferring to further downgrade the public >discourse? Planting lies >for subsequent citation as proof of something? What an asshole. In War Is A Racket, Butler argued for a powerful navy, but one prohibited from traveling more than 200 miles from the U.S. coastline. Military aircraft could travel no more than 500 miles from the U.S. coast, and the army would be prohibited from leaving the United States. Butler also proposed that all workers in defense industries, from the lowest laborer to the highest executive, be limited to "$30 a month, the same wage as the lads in the trenches get." He also proposed that a declaration of war should be passed by a plebiscite in which only those subject to conscription would be eligible to vote. There are many references to the Butler quote although I can't find a citation which gives the event(s) from which the speech occurred. I'll keep looking. BTW Butler was a very interesting , colorful and it seems key fellow in American history. But for his political and economic naivete a coup d'itat intended to remove President Franklin D. Roosevelt from office in 1934 might have succeeded. Bummer! "War is just a racket ... something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small group knows what its about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses." --- Major General Smedley Butler, 1933
Re: Durden lies, was: Echelon-like resources...
Here's the cite for the Ramsey Clark quote. On Fri, Oct 11, 2002 at 06:33:46PM +0200, Anonymous wrote: > On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:29:53 -0400, you wrote: > > > > "War is just a racket ... something that is not what it seems to the > > majority of people. Only a small group knows what its about. It is > > conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the > > masses." --- Major General Smedley Butler, 1933 > > > > "Our overriding purpose, from the beginning through to the present > > day, has been world domination - that is, to build and maintain the > > capacity to coerce everybody else on the planet: nonviolently, if > > possible, and violently, if necessary. But the purpose of US foreign > > policy of domination is not just to make the rest of the world jump > > through hoops; the purpose is to faciliate our exploitation of > > resources." > > - Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General > > Is there some reason you want to publish these bogus, uncitationed, false, >propaganda quotations? > Just adding to misinformation? Preferring to further downgrade the public discourse? >Planting lies > for subsequent citation as proof of something? What an asshole. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com "War is just a racket ... something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small group knows what its about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses." --- Major General Smedley Butler, 1933 "Our overriding purpose, from the beginning through to the present day, has been world domination - that is, to build and maintain the capacity to coerce everybody else on the planet: nonviolently, if possible, and violently, if necessary. But the purpose of US foreign policy of domination is not just to make the rest of the world jump through hoops; the purpose is to faciliate our exploitation of resources." - Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General http://www.thesunmagazine.org/bully.html
RE: Durden lies, was: Echelon-like resources...
Anonymous wrote: > >From: Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "Tyler Durden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Durden lies, was: Echelon-like resources... > >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:33:46 +0200 (CEST) > > > >On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:29:53 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > > "War is just a racket ... something that is not what it seems to the > > > majority of people. Only a small group knows what its about. It is > > > conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the > > > masses." --- Major General Smedley Butler, 1933 > > > > > > "Our overriding purpose, from the beginning through to the present > > > day, has been world domination - that is, to build and maintain the > > > capacity to coerce everybody else on the planet: nonviolently, if > > > possible, and violently, if necessary. But the purpose of US foreign > > > policy of domination is not just to make the rest of the world jump > > > through hoops; the purpose is to faciliate our exploitation of > > > resources." > > > - Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General > > > >Is there some reason you want to publish these bogus, uncitationed, > false, > >propaganda quotations? > >Just adding to misinformation? Preferring to further downgrade the public > > >discourse? Planting lies > >for subsequent citation as proof of something? What an asshole. > Anonymous had better learn to read, or at least quote email correctly. The signature quotations were not posted by Durden, but by Harmon Seaver. I too found them astonishing, but unlike anonymous, I try to check things out before calling foul. Anon should learn to use Google. Ramsey: http://www.thesunmagazine.org/bully.html The Sun is an alternative news magazine which has been in print since 1974. It's mammothly unlikely that they would fabricate the interview out of whole cloth, since Clarke would sue for libel and/or defamation. Butler: Numerous sources. Butler certainly existed; Amazon has at least two biographies available, and one of them has a sample page image refering to his 1935 book 'War is a Racket', titled after the 1933 speech. Part of the speech can be found here: http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm 5 chapters of the book can be found here: http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm If anonymous were a person of character he/she/it would apologize, first to Tyler Durden, for misquoting, and second to Harmon Seaver, but accusing him of lying. Peter Trei
Durden lies, was: Echelon-like resources...
On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:29:53 -0400, you wrote: > > "War is just a racket ... something that is not what it seems to the > majority of people. Only a small group knows what its about. It is > conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the > masses." --- Major General Smedley Butler, 1933 > > "Our overriding purpose, from the beginning through to the present > day, has been world domination - that is, to build and maintain the > capacity to coerce everybody else on the planet: nonviolently, if > possible, and violently, if necessary. But the purpose of US foreign > policy of domination is not just to make the rest of the world jump > through hoops; the purpose is to faciliate our exploitation of > resources." > - Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General Is there some reason you want to publish these bogus, uncitationed, false, propaganda quotations? Just adding to misinformation? Preferring to further downgrade the public discourse? Planting lies for subsequent citation as proof of something? What an asshole.