Re: Gestapo harasses John Young, appeals to patriotism, told to fuck off
At 04:35 AM 11/16/2003 +0100, Anonymous wrote: Confirming the allegation about idiot witnesses, I am sure I would not recognize either agent if I saw them again. The IDs yes, and the questions, but not the bland biometrics. You do have right to take pictures in your residence, no ? I am sure that John Young's real time door webcam would be a popular URL to look up. Maybe you could even sell some ad space there. Nope - too likely to take pictures of guests who are not unwanted - perhaps even some who wish to remain anonymous. However, the agents' folder was labeled SP - is this really the Feebs, or the Scientology Police hunting for Suppressive Persons ?
Re: Gestapo harasses John Young, appeals to patriotism, told to fuck off
My comment about the SAs having no noticeable body odor came out the notion that persons on a dangerous mission emit an easily identifiable smell, a smell not unlike that emitted by an unwary target when suddently confronted with danger. Innocents need not worry about these unintentional fear emanations. Same for an old time warrior whose body has evolved to emit a persistent stench of constant fear that overrides transitory wafts of panic aerating an urge to flee or submit. Constant fear of being attacked comes from daily warfare in NYC, call it urban terrorism, where territorial dispute is unending, and there is nobody who is not out to grab what you got, most often under pretense of helping you, offering friendly advice, getting inside your defenses with the kind of behavior you are sure you'd never fall for -- upon later reflection on what happened to yor best laid plans to not be suckered. Over-confidence, in attacker and target, that lack of the odor of danger, is certain to draw attention to weaknesses ready for exploitation. This bunker is saturated with moth balls, still visitors complain of rotted carcass. BO plenty.
Re: Gestapo harasses John Young, appeals to patriotism, told to fuck off
Declan wrote: Even if you don't have a lawyer on retainer, and I suspect few folks here do, saying you need to consult with one will provide you with time to give the local ACLU affiliate a call. Also law school legal clinics can be useful sources of free advice in a pinch. I've consulted a lawyer or two about Cryptome, and their advice is don't do it, but if you do we're here. So I no longer ask for legal advice. My advice, and it's legally superior to legal advice: take care of yourself, the threats are not as bad as the advisors advise. Most lawyers I've dealt with advise to get along with the system, which may be sound legal advice but shitty for dissent. I spend several thousand dollars a year on legal services for business and personal matters, but not for Cryptome. Abiding legal advice would kill the varmint. I once proposed to Declan that he get thrown in jail for his reporting, to give a big boost to his credibility and career, to break away from the getalong pack. That was in Tacoma, in the Federal Courthouse cafeteria, taking a break from the Bell show trial. I'd like to visit Declan in the pokey, sneak him a tube of getalong lubricant.
Re: Gestapo harasses John Young, appeals to patriotism, told to fuck off
In a message dated 11/10/2003 3:02:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: They showed up without warning, no call ahead, got past our Doberman doorman (we're on the 6th floor) who usually calls us about visitors but didn't this time, and hasn't said a peep since the visit. Why open the door to them? I have a few friends who as a matter of principle do not open their doors to people they do not know. Letting a Fedgoon in is akin to inviting a vampire into your house. Regards, Matt-
Re: Gestapo harasses John Young, appeals to patriotism, told to fuck off
Matt wrote: Why open the door to them? I have a few friends who as a matter of principle do not open their doors to people they do not know. Letting a Fedgoon in is akin to inviting a vampire into your house. I was expecting someone else at about the same time. True, I could have refused entry after the agent showed his ID. However, it seemed too good an opportunity to pass up: it is pretty common for Cryptome to get unexpected contributions. We try to remain open lines of communication to unknown sources, if not a goodly amount of info would never come out way. For all I knew, and now know, the Special Agents were frauds, of which Cryptome gets a taste regularly, perhaps more than we know. As discussed here, spoofing is trivial to do. Toward the end of the visit I asked SA Kelly to see his ID up close and he displayed a wallet with a brass badge on the left and a two-leaf ID on the right: flip left, then flip up. Was it real? The two-leaf ID looked like the version SA Renner showed at the door. Trim haircuts and dark suits, healthy-looking young Caucasians, no facial hair, shined shoes, clean teeth, no noticeable mouth or body odor, no obvious weapon bulges, polite, actually not polite all the time: there were a few instances when mild friction occurred, low-key warnings sent my way about inadvertent threats to the nation with too much information like that on Cryptome. SA Renner was cooler than Kelly during questioning -- Kelly slightly bristled when I made a comment about free flowing information making the US stronger, the agent saying, yes, but information can be misused. He bristled a lot more when I said I would publish their names, make them famous. At the word famous Kelly said, smiling really, I haven't had that before. Renner was quieter on naming names, knowing that there was a CNN story out about him. But he too mildly protested with the hazard to the family shtick. Kelly said, you know we can be found by knowing our names, get shot for what we do. That reminded me of Jeff Gordon, but I didn't snort. Kelly leaned forward in his wing-back chair, slightly aggressive, whereas Renner sat upright at a table, case file in front, posing most of the questions to me. Now, if I had refused the agents entry could I be telling this dinky inside story? Perhaps better will be the second visit, or door-busting and marching downstairs in handcuffs, or dark-van-snatch on the street, or my family and customers and friends questioned and warned, my assets seized and listed in the New York Times, gosh, what notoriety being a questionable patriot can lead to -- maybe right up there at the foot soles of the Special Agents, real or fraudulent. Confirming the allegation about idiot witnesses, I am sure I would not recognize either agent if I saw them again. The IDs yes, and the questions, but not the bland biometrics.
Re: Gestapo harasses John Young, appeals to patriotism, told to fuck off
Confirming the allegation about idiot witnesses, I am sure I would not recognize either agent if I saw them again. The IDs yes, and the questions, but not the bland biometrics. You do have right to take pictures in your residence, no ? I am sure that John Young's real time door webcam would be a popular URL to look up. Maybe you could even sell some ad space there.
Re: Gestapo harasses John Young, appeals to patriotism, told to fuck off
I tried to get them to sit together but they carefully bracketed me. John, it's imaginable how it feels. It's very inconvenient when men with guns send their minions - and it wouldn't surprise me if it does, over time, change Cryptome's attitude. Avoid heroic stupidity. Optimize for the long run. As opposed to Mr.May, you are causing some real irritation.
Re: Gestapo harasses John Young, appeals to patriotism, told to fuck off
On Nov 8, 2003, at 11:06 AM, Anonymous wrote: Cryptome received a visit today from FBI Special Agents Todd Renner and Christopher Kelly from the FBI Counterterrorism Office in New York, 26 Federal Plaza, telephone 212) 384-1000. Both agents presented official ID and business cards. Good stuff. Pigs getting concerned about cryptome means they are scared. I don't understand how this Anonymous can title a post with the phrase told to fuck off when John Young's account clearly said that he allowed the Feebs to enter his area and even had them sitting on either side of him. I cannot claim to know what I would do, or will do, if Feds ever visit my home, but I hope I will have the presence of mind to tell them to: a) get off my property b) or to arrest me In either case, talking to them will not help. The way the Reichssecuritat is getting convictions these days is to charge sheeple with lying to Federal agents. Nothing in the Constitution allows compelled speech, except under limited (and I think unconstitutional) cases involving grand juries ordering a person to speak. (Or where use or blanket immunity has been granted, again, probably an unconstitutional measure, as it is compelling potentially self-incriminating evidence which may very well be used in either another case or be twisted to provide a basis for another case.) I hope I will have the self-presence to say You are trespassing. Get off my property, right now! Cooperating with cops snooping around looking for either thoughtcrime or terrorist aid and support is a lose, a big lose. Speculating wildly, the real target may be John Young himself. And nearly anything he said to these narcs may be construed, by them and by their malleable DAs, as lying to a Federal investigator. People should not talk to the Feds. If the Feds come calling, refer them to one's lawyer. For those who don't have a lawyer on retainer, tell them that you need to consult with a lawyer first. Whether you do or you don't is beside the point. The point is to not talk to them. Lying to a Federal investigator is how they probably hope to get Cryptome shut down and John's kind of dissent quelled. --Tim May
Re: Gestapo harasses John Young, appeals to patriotism, told to fuck off
Not scared, hungry. They're looking for more collars they can throw in jail so they meet their quotas. --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :25Kliters anthrax, 38K liters botulinum toxin, 500 tons of /|\ \|/ :sarin, mustard and VX gas, mobile bio-weapons labs, nukular /\|/\ --*--:weapons.. Reasons for war on Iraq - GWB 2003-01-28 speech. \/|\/ /|\ :Found to date: 0. Cost of war: $800,000,000,000 USD.\|/ + v + : The look on Sadam's face - priceless! [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Sat, 8 Nov 2003, Anonymous wrote: Cryptome received a visit today from FBI Special Agents Todd Renner and Christopher Kelly from the FBI Counterterrorism Office in New York, 26 Federal Plaza, telephone 212) 384-1000. Both agents presented official ID and business cards. Good stuff. Pigs getting concerned about cryptome means they are scared.
