[darktable-dev] Filmic RGB

[Bruce Williams]

Aurélien,
Just seeking some clarification. Is the read-only graph in filmic RGB
linear or log?
Thanks in advance.
Cheers,
Bruce Williams.

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Re: [darktable-dev] Filmic RGB

[Aurélien Pierre]

Hi Bruce,

the abscissa are log scaled, the ordinates are display-gamma scaled.

Happy New Year !

Aurélien.

Le 03/01/2020 à 20:08, Bruce Williams a écrit :
> Aurélien,
> Just seeking some clarification. Is the read-only graph in filmic RGB
> linear or log?
> Thanks in advance.
> Cheers,
> Bruce Williams.
>
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[darktable-dev] filmic RGB presets

[KOVÁCS István]

Hi,

I'm on darktable 1a11ea71 compiled using build.sh; OS is Kubuntu 19.04.

I started with a reasonably exposed landscape, and tried applying the
'outdoors' setting as a starting point (that, and 'bright outdoors',
often worked well for me in 'classic' filmic in darktable 2.6.2). WIth
the version built from master, I get a rather blown-out picture, with
the grey point set to 2.31%. Auto-tuning sets it to around 5%, and
that results in a much more pleasant rendering (my preferred value,
set manually, is 6%). In 2.6.2, the outdoors preset used 9%; the one
most similar to master's 'outdoors' setting from was 'HDR' of v2.6.2
(2.25%).
I've uploaded the NEF and screenshots with the different settings here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Abif5j70a0aaVTanGBd7O0JyMntOcRlg

I started my 'master' version with separate config/cache/library, so I
don't think I have any automatically applied settings other than those
shipped out of the box. 'Classic' filmic is no longer available as a
module, although I can open old history stacks and see a '/!\ filmic'
step in them; editing is not possible.

A slightly confusing entry in the history: there is a step called
'gamma', but it's not tied to any module. I guess it's internal
processing, something the users can't do anything about.

Thanks,
Kofa
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Re: [darktable-dev] filmic RGB presets

[jys]

On Wed, Oct 16, 2019, at 01:34, KOVÁCS István wrote:

> 'Classic' filmic is no longer available as a
> module, although I can open old history stacks and see a '/!\ filmic'
> step in them; editing is not possible.

The '/!\' in the history list means it's been "deprecated" and hidden from the 
module views along with a few others. It can still be edited on images where 
it's enabled, but you'll only see it in the "active modules" view. You could 
create a style from such an image to apply it to others if you still need to.

> A slightly confusing entry in the history: there is a step called
> 'gamma', but it's not tied to any module. I guess it's internal
> processing, something the users can't do anything about.

This is related to output color profile, I believe, and shown mostly for 
"completeness", you can safely ignore it.

-- 
jys
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Re: [darktable-dev] filmic RGB presets

[Aurélien Pierre]

Hi,

presets are just that : presets. It's hard to have them truly universal.
If you like other presets better, just save them.

Filmic RGB uses a different spline interpolation method that behaves
differently, closer to the densitometric curves of actual film emulsion.
But the previous presets don't make sense now.

All the current presets put the middle-grey… in the middle of the
dynamic range. You will find that it's how the interpolation behaves
better, and it only make sense if you think about it. If you find you
image is blown-out (is it really though, or did you just lose local
contrast in highlights… which is the goal ?), you can use the dynamic
range scaling setting, to quickly and symmetrically give a safety margin
to the black and white points.

Cheers,

Aurélien.

Le 16/10/2019 à 10:34, KOVÁCS István a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> I'm on darktable 1a11ea71 compiled using build.sh; OS is Kubuntu 19.04.
>
> I started with a reasonably exposed landscape, and tried applying the
> 'outdoors' setting as a starting point (that, and 'bright outdoors',
> often worked well for me in 'classic' filmic in darktable 2.6.2). WIth
> the version built from master, I get a rather blown-out picture, with
> the grey point set to 2.31%. Auto-tuning sets it to around 5%, and
> that results in a much more pleasant rendering (my preferred value,
> set manually, is 6%). In 2.6.2, the outdoors preset used 9%; the one
> most similar to master's 'outdoors' setting from was 'HDR' of v2.6.2
> (2.25%).
> I've uploaded the NEF and screenshots with the different settings here:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Abif5j70a0aaVTanGBd7O0JyMntOcRlg
>
> I started my 'master' version with separate config/cache/library, so I
> don't think I have any automatically applied settings other than those
> shipped out of the box. 'Classic' filmic is no longer available as a
> module, although I can open old history stacks and see a '/!\ filmic'
> step in them; editing is not possible.
>
> A slightly confusing entry in the history: there is a step called
> 'gamma', but it's not tied to any module. I guess it's internal
> processing, something the users can't do anything about.
>
> Thanks,
> Kofa
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Re: [darktable-dev] filmic RGB presets

[KOVÁCS István]

Hi Aurélien,

Thanks for the response. I understand that presets are just presets,
not one-size-fits-all tools. I was just surprised that while the 'old'
presets usually required little tweaking, the new (RGB) ones seemed to
be very different. I thought maybe there was a module order problem
(you pointed out a few in your latest filmicRGB + tone EQ video -
great one, BTW!), or something else I was not aware of (botched input
profile setting, colour space etc.).
If you check Screenshot_20191022_212737.png (a new addition to the
uploads at https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Abif5j70a0aaVTanGBd7O0JyMntOcRlg),
you'll see that even with the maximum value (minimal magnitude) one
can set for 'black relative exposure' (-3EV), the picture looks washed
out, and the histogram does not reach the left-hand-side (a different
photo, but from the same set).

Thanks again,
Kofa / István


On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 at 12:25, Aurélien Pierre
 wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> presets are just that : presets. It's hard to have them truly universal. If 
> you like other presets better, just save them.
>
> Filmic RGB uses a different spline interpolation method that behaves 
> differently, closer to the densitometric curves of actual film emulsion. But 
> the previous presets don't make sense now.
>
> All the current presets put the middle-grey… in the middle of the dynamic 
> range. You will find that it's how the interpolation behaves better, and it 
> only make sense if you think about it. If you find you image is blown-out (is 
> it really though, or did you just lose local contrast in highlights… which is 
> the goal ?), you can use the dynamic range scaling setting, to quickly and 
> symmetrically give a safety margin to the black and white points.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Aurélien.
>
> Le 16/10/2019 à 10:34, KOVÁCS István a écrit :
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm on darktable 1a11ea71 compiled using build.sh; OS is Kubuntu 19.04.
>
> I started with a reasonably exposed landscape, and tried applying the
> 'outdoors' setting as a starting point (that, and 'bright outdoors',
> often worked well for me in 'classic' filmic in darktable 2.6.2). WIth
> the version built from master, I get a rather blown-out picture, with
> the grey point set to 2.31%. Auto-tuning sets it to around 5%, and
> that results in a much more pleasant rendering (my preferred value,
> set manually, is 6%). In 2.6.2, the outdoors preset used 9%; the one
> most similar to master's 'outdoors' setting from was 'HDR' of v2.6.2
> (2.25%).
> I've uploaded the NEF and screenshots with the different settings here:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Abif5j70a0aaVTanGBd7O0JyMntOcRlg
>
> I started my 'master' version with separate config/cache/library, so I
> don't think I have any automatically applied settings other than those
> shipped out of the box. 'Classic' filmic is no longer available as a
> module, although I can open old history stacks and see a '/!\ filmic'
> step in them; editing is not possible.
>
> A slightly confusing entry in the history: there is a step called
> 'gamma', but it's not tied to any module. I guess it's internal
> processing, something the users can't do anything about.
>
> Thanks,
> Kofa
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[darktable-dev] Filmic (RGB or not) explained

[Aurélien Pierre]

Hi,

This is my video on filmic RGB, explaining how it works and how to do it
in real-life cases:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbPj_TqTF88&feature=youtu.be I hope it
resolves most of the misunderstandings and trial-errors sessions that
always end-up in frustration.

A shorter addendum is on the way to explain specifically to users of
darktable 2.6 what changed between the 2.6 and 3.0.

Cheers,

Aurélien.


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Re: [darktable-dev] Filmic (RGB or not) explained

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

Thank you a lot! It was most instructive.

Timur.

On Sun, 2019-12-01 at 01:08 +0100, Aurélien Pierre wrote:
> Hi,
> This is my video on filmic RGB, explaining how it works and how to do
> it in real-life cases: 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbPj_TqTF88&feature=youtu.be I hope
> it resolves most of the misunderstandings and trial-errors sessions
> that always end-up in frustration.
> A shorter addendum is on the way to explain specifically to users of
> darktable 2.6 what changed between the 2.6 and 3.0.
> Cheers,
> Aurélien.
> 
> _
> __ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org 

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Re: [darktable-dev] Filmic (RGB or not) explained

[Richard Hobday]

Many thanks Aurélien.



On 01/12/2019 00:08, Aurélien Pierre wrote:

Hi,

This is my video on filmic RGB, explaining how it works and how to do it
in real-life cases:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbPj_TqTF88&feature=youtu.be I hope it
resolves most of the misunderstandings and trial-errors sessions that
always end-up in frustration.

A shorter addendum is on the way to explain specifically to users of
darktable 2.6 what changed between the 2.6 and 3.0.

Cheers,

Aurélien.


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--
http://lukecarville.jalbum.net
https://facebook.com/rlc.hobday
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Re: [darktable-dev] Filmic (RGB or not) explained

[Jørn Villesen Christensen]

Thank you, Aurélien, for this video. I enjoyed it.

You mention a video on the Tone module; I have not been able to find 
that. Is it out yet?


~Jørn


On 01/12/2019 01:08, Aurélien Pierre wrote:


Hi,

This is my video on filmic RGB, explaining how it works and how to do 
it in real-life cases: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbPj_TqTF88&feature=youtu.be I hope it 
resolves most of the misunderstandings and trial-errors sessions that 
always end-up in frustration.


A shorter addendum is on the way to explain specifically to users of 
darktable 2.6 what changed between the 2.6 and 3.0.


Cheers,

Aurélien.


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Re: [darktable-dev] Filmic (RGB or not) explained

[Jørn Villesen Christensen]

Sorry...  I of course meant the Tone Equalizer.

~Jørn

On 09/12/2019 11:07, Jørn Villesen Christensen wrote:

Thank you, Aurélien, for this video. I enjoyed it.

You mention a video on the Tone module; I have not been able to find 
that. Is it out yet?


~Jørn


On 01/12/2019 01:08, Aurélien Pierre wrote:


Hi,

This is my video on filmic RGB, explaining how it works and how to do 
it in real-life cases: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbPj_TqTF88&feature=youtu.be I hope 
it resolves most of the misunderstandings and trial-errors sessions 
that always end-up in frustration.


A shorter addendum is on the way to explain specifically to users of 
darktable 2.6 what changed between the 2.6 and 3.0.


Cheers,

Aurélien.


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[darktable-dev] Filmic RGB - switching 'preserve chroma' setting changes the curve

[KOVÁCS István]

Hi,

I don't know if this is how it's supposed to behave, but I suspect it
is not: switching 'preserve chroma' to 'RGB power norm' drastically
altered the curve. Switching back to any of the other settings
(including to 'no') restored the original curve; selecting 'RGB power
norm' altered it again. After a few switches, darktable froze with
100% CPU. No error in the console. After killing and restarting, I'm
unable to reproduce this.

Self-built darktable a88be9282b0 using build.sh, NVidia OpenCL on a
GTX 650, Ubuntu 19.04. Wiped library.db and data.db.

Files are here:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1qmx5JkL11L9ZAwEykHXcfaYPIkF8FTFc?usp=sharing

1. I imported and opened a raw file -> 2019-06-02_12-24-37_DSC_0002.NEF
2. Turned on filmic RGB. -> filmicRGB-defaults.png
3. Pressed auto tune levels -> filmicRGB-auto_tune_levels.png
4. Switched to the 'look' tab, and switched 'preserve chroma' to 'RGB
power norm'. The curve got distorted. ->
filmicRGB-auto_tune_RGB-power-norm.png

Thanks,
Kofa

ps. Thanks for quickly fixing the somewhat misleading names of the
presets; I promise I'll continue to read the fine manual once it is
available; until then, I read your Pixls.us posts and watch your
Youtube videos as they become available.
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Re: [darktable-dev] Filmic RGB - switching 'preserve chroma' setting changes the curve

[KOVÁCS István]

Hi,

On Fri, 25 Oct 2019, 07:31 Axel Gerber,  wrote:

> Before you installed a new dt 2.7 version, did you clean the installation
> folder or just swiped it over? If the latter, try to clean and reinstall
>

Please keep the discussion on the list.
Thanks for the suggestion. I did not remove the installation folder; it was
my impression the build toolchain is supposed to keep it properly updated.
I'll add its removal to my build steps. (BTW, do I need something like'make
clean'? If yes, how do I do it? I have not done any C development since
university.)
I did remove the DB files using rm.

Kofa

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AW:[darktable-dev] Filmic RGB - switching 'preserve chroma' setting changes the curve

[Axel Gerber]

Sorry, seems I made a mistake by replying :blush:I don't do a make clean, but clear out the installation folder seems to prevent weird thing I experienced before. Cheers Axel Von meinem Mobiltelefon gesendetHi,On Fri, 25 Oct 2019, 07:31 Axel Gerber,  wrote:Before you installed a new dt 2.7 version, did you clean the installation folder or just swiped it over? If the latter, try to clean and reinstallPlease keep the discussion on the list.Thanks for the suggestion. I did not remove the installation folder; it was my impression the build toolchain is supposed to keep it properly updated. I'll add its removal to my build steps. (BTW, do I need something like'make clean'? If yes, how do I do it? I have not done any C development since university.)I did remove the DB files using rm.Kofa

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