Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
For what it's worth ... I used to be an enthusiastic LR user. In fact, I used LR when it was a free program developed by a small band of enthusiasts. I can't even remember if it was called LR before Adobe bought it, but the point is that I'm a very long time user of LR in all its incarnations. Loved it. Then I switched to Linux and had to work with a box to accomodate Windows and LR. That became a hassle, so I looked for an alternative and guess what came on the scene. Tentatively, I downloaded DT and was amazed to find that it happily opened my LR files and more often than not they were as I had edited them. Not always, but you always get interesting results from translating a book, say, from one language to another. So that sometimes gave me an unexpected alternative edit to consider. Sometimes better, sometimes not. I confess that I decided the best way to learn is to play. Just use it and see what happens. You can't break it, but you'll find out quickly what you can and can't do. Then if all else fails, read the instructions. So that's how I learned to use DT in a very short time. There's still a huge amount it can do that I don't use, and I'll work that out when I need it. In other words, for me DT is highly intuitive and easy to use, perhaps because I don't treat it as if it's LR and then feel disappointed when it doesn't behave like LR. I dropped LR some 6 years ago, maybe more. And I'm a professional photographer, recently retired now, specialising in architectural work where precise rendering is important, and images for book jackets where creativity and atmosphere are important. DT copes with both these extremes far better than LR ever did. So my heartfelt thanks and admiration to the amazing work and dedication of the individuals who create this wonderful program simply because they want to. Well done guys! Girts Gailans 2minty studio Original Message On 24 Aug 2020, 21:14, Jesus Arocho wrote: > Agreed. I have been using DT for several years. Last year I purchased LR for > several months and was lost; dropped the sub and continued on DT. I compile > from the latest dev branch on ubuntu and on a small Windows machine for > travel (laptop) is heavier. > > On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 12:55 PM Pascal Obry wrote: > >> Le lundi 24 août 2020 à 11:54 -0400, Jason Polak a écrit : >>> I wonder though if some of that is not the psychology of used first >>> vs. second, though. >> >> I think that's exactly that indeed. People don't want to change their >> mind and learn new things. >> >> On my side, I've been a Lr user for 5 years+ when I decided to switch >> to dt. I did develop only one picture with it for each batch developed >> with Lr. I was far more productive with Lr, found dt more difficult to >> grasp and I had too many pictures to develop to switch yet. But I had >> the strong motivation to leave Adobe product for good. After many >> months working this way I felt more confortable. >> >> Now what about my current edits in Lr? Okay, I decided to step in and >> do the Lr conversion module which is integrated in dt. All my tags, >> color labels, stars and some devs can be converted with it. >> >> Almost one year, yes one year, after trying dt for the first time I >> decided to fully switch to it. >> >> So people trying it, not reading manuals, not looking at the excellent >> Youtube tutorials around and wanting to prepare an exhibition or nice >> gallery won't switch at all. This has been said again and again, dt is >> not Lr and you cannot just switch to it without reviewing your full >> workflow and investing quite some time on it. >> >> My 2 cents! >> >> -- >> Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78) >> >> The best way to travel is by means of imagination >> >> http://www.obry.net >> >> gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B >> >> >> darktable user mailing list >> to unsubscribe send a mail to >> [darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org](mailto:darktable-user%2bunsubscr...@lists.darktable.org) > > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.or
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
It is really worth investing the time in learning DT. As an editing program it leaves LR for dead. Yes Adobe has made a very easy to use product. Rather than complicated modules just a few sliders and you have a good image. LR is like an automatic car. DT is a high performance sports car. Depends what you are happy to settle for. I have LR so my preference is not based on what I am willing to pay for, but which program is more capable. For me, Darktables drawn paths to localise adjustments leaves the adjustment brush in LR looking a little sad. On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 at 17:08, Kneops wrote: > Hi Michael. I agree ofcourse with what you say, but 'After a month'... > is exactly what I mean. If it takes a month, something is not right. I > never used LR, but opening it and - like I said - I could edit 99% of my > images the way I want within 5 minutes. I even don't use Gimp anymore, > unless my sensor had become too dirty ;). > > > > Op 22-08-2020 om 22:04 schreef Mikael Ståldal: > > The filmic module can be a bit intimidating and unfamiliar if you are > > used to Lightroom. But if you just spend a few hours watching videos and > > reading instructions, and practice on a dozen of your own images, you > > can become effective faster than you think. And it just got easier with > > Darktable 3.2! > > > > After about a month of using Darktable, I feel that I can do about the > > same as I did in Lightroom. And I have the option to spend some > > additional learning effort and be able to do a lot more that was not > > possible with Lightroom. > > > > So I agree with the sentiment: great and impressive work by the > > development team! > > > > > > > > On 2020-08-20 09:38, Kneops wrote: > >> I agree, it is a marvellous piece of work, unbelievable really and I > >> love it but not use it as much as I would like to. And I would never > >> recommend it to friends :(. Even for me as a freelance photographer > >> (20+ years of experience) it feels like it is made for techies, not > >> (yet) intuitive enough. For example the filmic module is so full of > >> options and sliders and words that are not obvious/comprehensible for > >> most people and even I have much difficulty in understanding what they > >> do. I just start using the sliders and always slide in the wrong > >> direction at first ;). My feeling says that when I see a slider that > >> says 'White relative exposure' I want to drag it to the right to get > >> more white tones, but the opposite happens. > >> > >> I'm not a fan of Windows, Adobe and LR, but I still use the latter > >> because it is intuitive. With a few sliders I get almost exactly what > >> I want with 99% of my images and very fast (even though LR lacks speed > >> and I don't like the catalogs/collections system of it). That is why > >> most people still use LR I think. It has sliders that are called White > >> Tones, Black Tones, Highlights, Texture, all very clear in what they > >> do and how to use them. If DT wants to drag a lot of people to its > >> open source alternative, imho it needs to be simplified. LR lacks > >> power and options for more adjustments, but what it does it does quite > >> nicely. Highlight and shadow recovery always looks very natural, > >> whereas in DT highlight recovery is not good enough and shadow > >> recovery can look very harsh and artificial. > >> > >> But... I'm really a fan of DT and hope I can use it on a daily basis > >> and convert my newest pc back into a Linux machine, because LR is the > >> only reason I bought it (my other Linux computer is for webdesign > >> work). Could have been Capture One or one of the other options as well > >> by the way, what I'm trying to say is not LR specific. > >> > >> > >> So, a lot of love and admiration for DT, but some suggestions for the > >> future :). > >> > >> > >> Jack > >> > >> > >> > >> Op 19-08-2020 om 10:00 schreef Pascal Obry: > >>> > >>> Hi Jason, > >>> > Overall impressions: a worthy improvement (thanks, developers!). I am > going to adjust to a new workflow with darktable 3.2, but it is not a > big adjustment. I think overall darktable has come very far since the > early days, and it is hard to believe such a program is free > software. > >>> > >>> Nice to read such message among all the bug reports. This amazing piece > >>> of work is maintained by many talented people accros the planet. The > >>> best we can do to keep our freedom against the big players trying to > >>> lock us down in their world which ressemble to a golden jail. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> > >> > >> > > > >> > >> darktable user mailing list > >> to unsubscribe send a mail to > >> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > >> > > > > > > > > darktable user mailing list > > to unsubscribe send a mail to > > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > >
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
Agreed. I have been using DT for several years. Last year I purchased LR for several months and was lost; dropped the sub and continued on DT. I compile from the latest dev branch on ubuntu and on a small Windows machine for travel (laptop) is heavier. On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 12:55 PM Pascal Obry wrote: > Le lundi 24 août 2020 à 11:54 -0400, Jason Polak a écrit : > > I wonder though if some of that is not the psychology of used first > > vs. second, though. > > I think that's exactly that indeed. People don't want to change their > mind and learn new things. > > On my side, I've been a Lr user for 5 years+ when I decided to switch > to dt. I did develop only one picture with it for each batch developed > with Lr. I was far more productive with Lr, found dt more difficult to > grasp and I had too many pictures to develop to switch yet. But I had > the strong motivation to leave Adobe product for good. After many > months working this way I felt more confortable. > > Now what about my current edits in Lr? Okay, I decided to step in and > do the Lr conversion module which is integrated in dt. All my tags, > color labels, stars and some devs can be converted with it. > > Almost one year, yes one year, after trying dt for the first time I > decided to fully switch to it. > > So people trying it, not reading manuals, not looking at the excellent > Youtube tutorials around and wanting to prepare an exhibition or nice > gallery won't switch at all. This has been said again and again, dt is > not Lr and you cannot just switch to it without reviewing your full > workflow and investing quite some time on it. > > My 2 cents! > > -- > Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78) > > The best way to travel is by means of imagination > > http://www.obry.net > > gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B > > > > darktable user mailing list > to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
Almost my path in raw software. Started with RT and DT, than found Aftershot Pro (= Bibble) which was decent enough but no development (indeed Corel fucked up the original software and are deceiving new users), than back to DT for about 2 years until I tried LR. Not lost but instead remarkably easy to use (only editing). Now I use LR on a Windows machine and everything else (including learning DT) on Linux. Op 24-08-2020 om 20:30 schreef Patrick Shanahan: I once tried lightroom and was completely lost. Went back to bibble, but bibble abandoned it's users for $$$s from Corel who fsck everything and I changed to dt which presented a workflow quite similar, and have never looked back. darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
True! I'm using LR now for going through my archive and I agree that at some point it can get restrictive, but as I said earlier, for 99% of my images it works very well and very fast. I don't like the library system though, so at some point I will import everything in DT. Op 24-08-2020 om 19:51 schreef Patrick Shanahan: However, I also appreciate that because of the additional manual steps required in darktable, you eventually get to a point where you have more control and personality that you can put into your images, so after that initial period of learning (the "month"), trying to use lightroom feels awfully restrictive. darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
A penny worth of thoughts :) More than that. Yes it could be time, but I just want to add that I'm in no way new to editing software and have switched many times. I started in the nineties with Photoshop, then used many brands of software while working in a design company until I switched to Linux in 2007. Before that I used software from Macromedia (Dreamweaver, Flash, Freehand), Adobe (Illustrator, GoLive, Premiere), QuarkExpress, Paintshop Pro and after that many different programs that run under Linux, including Gimp, Aftershot Pro, Krita. I could almost work with them without ever reading a manual, all quite ituitive. Except DT. But I will keep on trying (!!!) because I too want to be independent of Windows and Adobe. Since most people are very happy with DT I assume it must be me. In general I have always believed that the best devices/software/machines are those that don't need a manual to operate (except advanced usage perhaps), because the UI is easy and transparent. My God, this sounds like I don't like DT, but I do! It's love/hate at the moment I guess :). I think that's exactly that indeed. People don't want to change their mind and learn new things. On my side, I've been a Lr user for 5 years+ when I decided to switch to dt. I did develop only one picture with it for each batch developed with Lr. I was far more productive with Lr, found dt more difficult to grasp and I had too many pictures to develop to switch yet. But I had the strong motivation to leave Adobe product for good. After many months working this way I felt more confortable. Now what about my current edits in Lr? Okay, I decided to step in and do the Lr conversion module which is integrated in dt. All my tags, color labels, stars and some devs can be converted with it. Almost one year, yes one year, after trying dt for the first time I decided to fully switch to it. So people trying it, not reading manuals, not looking at the excellent Youtube tutorials around and wanting to prepare an exhibition or nice gallery won't switch at all. This has been said again and again, dt is not Lr and you cannot just switch to it without reviewing your full workflow and investing quite some time on it. My 2 cents! darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
* Michael [08-24-20 14:21]: > On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 1:53 PM Patrick Shanahan wrote: > > > > * Jason Polak [08-24-20 11:56]: > > > I wonder though if some of that is not the psychology of used first vs. > > > second, though. Because, I started out with darktable, and only years > > > later did I try lightroom, and I found doing things in Lightroom > > > confusing even after half an hour with it. And when I first started out > > > with darktable, I found it pretty intuitive. > > > > have to agree with this. It has been my experience. Try rawtherapee if > > you want to experience another *completely* different work path. > > > > Is that why we prefer dt? we as "most of this list's users" I would think. but many user rt and other software. I once tried lightroom and was completely lost. Went back to bibble, but bibble abandoned it's users for $$$s from Corel who fsck everything and I changed to dt which presented a workflow quite similar, and have never looked back. AND, I have used the master/development version most of that time. I have *never* lost an image as a fault of dt or the particular version, or my library. I have had to vacuum and "pragma integrity_check", where I once could not open the library. But I also had backups, but would have lost two sessions of work, maybe 800 image worth, if I had to use the backup. dt just works! -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 1:53 PM Patrick Shanahan wrote: > > * Jason Polak [08-24-20 11:56]: > > I wonder though if some of that is not the psychology of used first vs. > > second, though. Because, I started out with darktable, and only years > > later did I try lightroom, and I found doing things in Lightroom > > confusing even after half an hour with it. And when I first started out > > with darktable, I found it pretty intuitive. > > have to agree with this. It has been my experience. Try rawtherapee if > you want to experience another *completely* different work path. > Is that why we prefer dt? darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
Le lundi 24 août 2020 à 18:25 +0100, Ricardo Kozmate.Net a écrit : > "Don't want to" is bit tough on people. Don't you have crossed people thinking like this, with dubious arguments to not use Linux, dubious arguments to not learn Libre Office, dubious arguments to not use GIMP or dt... Because they are already comfortable with Windows, MS Office, etc... > So something that does not solve my problem my way is, obviously, > wrong. Wrong? No just maybe something that is not working for you. > So, instead of saying people are lazy or stupid, I certainly didn't say stupid, so please to not put words on my mouth. Thanks. But yes lazy, we are all a bit like that and it really needs quite a bit of energy to restart something from scratch, un-learning and spending more time using another way for some time. -- Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78) The best way to travel is by means of imagination http://www.obry.net gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
* Jason Polak [08-24-20 11:56]: > I wonder though if some of that is not the psychology of used first vs. > second, though. Because, I started out with darktable, and only years > later did I try lightroom, and I found doing things in Lightroom > confusing even after half an hour with it. And when I first started out > with darktable, I found it pretty intuitive. have to agree with this. It has been my experience. Try rawtherapee if you want to experience another *completely* different work path. > I don't think this explains everything, though. There is of course user > experience, and then I am sure there are some things easier to do in > Lightroom. In fact, I will admit that one thing about Lightroom that > seems easier is sensible defaults when it comes to exposure and colour > correction. It does seem to have some pretty good defaults when you just > want some basic adjustments. I find the latest filmic module to supply very good defaults. > However, I also appreciate that because of the additional manual steps > required in darktable, you eventually get to a point where you have more > control and personality that you can put into your images, so after that > initial period of learning (the "month"), trying to use lightroom feels > awfully restrictive. amen. g -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
I think you misunderstood. I am not a professional photographer, and I don't do photo editing every day. It would have been way less than I month if I have spent a couple of hours every day on this. Calendar time vs. effective time. On 2020-08-24 09:07, Kneops wrote: Hi Michael. I agree ofcourse with what you say, but 'After a month'... is exactly what I mean. If it takes a month, something is not right. I never used LR, but opening it and - like I said - I could edit 99% of my images the way I want within 5 minutes. I even don't use Gimp anymore, unless my sensor had become too dirty ;). Op 22-08-2020 om 22:04 schreef Mikael Ståldal: The filmic module can be a bit intimidating and unfamiliar if you are used to Lightroom. But if you just spend a few hours watching videos and reading instructions, and practice on a dozen of your own images, you can become effective faster than you think. And it just got easier with Darktable 3.2! After about a month of using Darktable, I feel that I can do about the same as I did in Lightroom. And I have the option to spend some additional learning effort and be able to do a lot more that was not possible with Lightroom. So I agree with the sentiment: great and impressive work by the development team! On 2020-08-20 09:38, Kneops wrote: I agree, it is a marvellous piece of work, unbelievable really and I love it but not use it as much as I would like to. And I would never recommend it to friends :(. Even for me as a freelance photographer (20+ years of experience) it feels like it is made for techies, not (yet) intuitive enough. For example the filmic module is so full of options and sliders and words that are not obvious/comprehensible for most people and even I have much difficulty in understanding what they do. I just start using the sliders and always slide in the wrong direction at first ;). My feeling says that when I see a slider that says 'White relative exposure' I want to drag it to the right to get more white tones, but the opposite happens. I'm not a fan of Windows, Adobe and LR, but I still use the latter because it is intuitive. With a few sliders I get almost exactly what I want with 99% of my images and very fast (even though LR lacks speed and I don't like the catalogs/collections system of it). That is why most people still use LR I think. It has sliders that are called White Tones, Black Tones, Highlights, Texture, all very clear in what they do and how to use them. If DT wants to drag a lot of people to its open source alternative, imho it needs to be simplified. LR lacks power and options for more adjustments, but what it does it does quite nicely. Highlight and shadow recovery always looks very natural, whereas in DT highlight recovery is not good enough and shadow recovery can look very harsh and artificial. But... I'm really a fan of DT and hope I can use it on a daily basis and convert my newest pc back into a Linux machine, because LR is the only reason I bought it (my other Linux computer is for webdesign work). Could have been Capture One or one of the other options as well by the way, what I'm trying to say is not LR specific. So, a lot of love and admiration for DT, but some suggestions for the future :). Jack Op 19-08-2020 om 10:00 schreef Pascal Obry: Hi Jason, Overall impressions: a worthy improvement (thanks, developers!). I am going to adjust to a new workflow with darktable 3.2, but it is not a big adjustment. I think overall darktable has come very far since the early days, and it is hard to believe such a program is free software. Nice to read such message among all the bug reports. This amazing piece of work is maintained by many talented people accros the planet. The best we can do to keep our freedom against the big players trying to lock us down in their world which ressemble to a golden jail. Cheers, darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
Hi, all. Em 24/08/2020 17:47, Pascal Obry escreveu: Le lundi 24 août 2020 à 11:54 -0400, Jason Polak a écrit : I wonder though if some of that is not the psychology of used first vs. second, though. I think that's exactly that indeed. People don't want to change their mind and learn new things. "Don't want to" is bit tough on people. I think we, people, tend to believe that the first thing we've learned and that is enough to solve all our (known) needs and wishes, is *the right thing*. So something that does not solve my problem my way is, obviously, wrong. Spending time, a year you say?, learning *the wrong thing* is a most obviously wrong option. So people don't. So, instead of saying people are lazy or stupid, we should tell them that DT solves different problems. I don't know, I never used LR, but from what I read, the main advantages are price and better artistic control. The price advantage is obvious, and most people coming from LR is probably coming for that reason, so no need to highlight it much, and anyway the site's main page already does so. The site - main page and features page - also highlight a lot of goodies. Fine. Probably it should also state upfront that we will be able to make basic editing right after installation but then to really get it going on it will take time, but then we will be able to do (this) and (that) better than (-LR-) just about anywhere else. Yes, any good application takes time to master, anyone should know that, but it does not hurt if people gets reminded upfront, does it? (I am just an amateur user very very far from mastering it) darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
Le lundi 24 août 2020 à 11:54 -0400, Jason Polak a écrit : > I wonder though if some of that is not the psychology of used first > vs. second, though. I think that's exactly that indeed. People don't want to change their mind and learn new things. On my side, I've been a Lr user for 5 years+ when I decided to switch to dt. I did develop only one picture with it for each batch developed with Lr. I was far more productive with Lr, found dt more difficult to grasp and I had too many pictures to develop to switch yet. But I had the strong motivation to leave Adobe product for good. After many months working this way I felt more confortable. Now what about my current edits in Lr? Okay, I decided to step in and do the Lr conversion module which is integrated in dt. All my tags, color labels, stars and some devs can be converted with it. Almost one year, yes one year, after trying dt for the first time I decided to fully switch to it. So people trying it, not reading manuals, not looking at the excellent Youtube tutorials around and wanting to prepare an exhibition or nice gallery won't switch at all. This has been said again and again, dt is not Lr and you cannot just switch to it without reviewing your full workflow and investing quite some time on it. My 2 cents! -- Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78) The best way to travel is by means of imagination http://www.obry.net gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
I wonder though if some of that is not the psychology of used first vs. second, though. Because, I started out with darktable, and only years later did I try lightroom, and I found doing things in Lightroom confusing even after half an hour with it. And when I first started out with darktable, I found it pretty intuitive. I don't think this explains everything, though. There is of course user experience, and then I am sure there are some things easier to do in Lightroom. In fact, I will admit that one thing about Lightroom that seems easier is sensible defaults when it comes to exposure and colour correction. It does seem to have some pretty good defaults when you just want some basic adjustments. However, I also appreciate that because of the additional manual steps required in darktable, you eventually get to a point where you have more control and personality that you can put into your images, so after that initial period of learning (the "month"), trying to use lightroom feels awfully restrictive. Jason On 24/08/2020 03.07, Kneops wrote: > Hi Michael. I agree ofcourse with what you say, but 'After a month'... > is exactly what I mean. If it takes a month, something is not right. I > never used LR, but opening it and - like I said - I could edit 99% of my > images the way I want within 5 minutes. I even don't use Gimp anymore, > unless my sensor had become too dirty ;). > > > > Op 22-08-2020 om 22:04 schreef Mikael Ståldal: >> The filmic module can be a bit intimidating and unfamiliar if you are >> used to Lightroom. But if you just spend a few hours watching videos >> and reading instructions, and practice on a dozen of your own images, >> you can become effective faster than you think. And it just got easier >> with Darktable 3.2! >> >> After about a month of using Darktable, I feel that I can do about the >> same as I did in Lightroom. And I have the option to spend some >> additional learning effort and be able to do a lot more that was not >> possible with Lightroom. >> >> So I agree with the sentiment: great and impressive work by the >> development team! >> >> >> >> On 2020-08-20 09:38, Kneops wrote: >>> I agree, it is a marvellous piece of work, unbelievable really and I >>> love it but not use it as much as I would like to. And I would never >>> recommend it to friends :(. Even for me as a freelance photographer >>> (20+ years of experience) it feels like it is made for techies, not >>> (yet) intuitive enough. For example the filmic module is so full of >>> options and sliders and words that are not obvious/comprehensible for >>> most people and even I have much difficulty in understanding what >>> they do. I just start using the sliders and always slide in the wrong >>> direction at first ;). My feeling says that when I see a slider that >>> says 'White relative exposure' I want to drag it to the right to get >>> more white tones, but the opposite happens. >>> >>> I'm not a fan of Windows, Adobe and LR, but I still use the latter >>> because it is intuitive. With a few sliders I get almost exactly what >>> I want with 99% of my images and very fast (even though LR lacks >>> speed and I don't like the catalogs/collections system of it). That >>> is why most people still use LR I think. It has sliders that are >>> called White Tones, Black Tones, Highlights, Texture, all very clear >>> in what they do and how to use them. If DT wants to drag a lot of >>> people to its open source alternative, imho it needs to be >>> simplified. LR lacks power and options for more adjustments, but what >>> it does it does quite nicely. Highlight and shadow recovery always >>> looks very natural, whereas in DT highlight recovery is not good >>> enough and shadow recovery can look very harsh and artificial. >>> >>> But... I'm really a fan of DT and hope I can use it on a daily basis >>> and convert my newest pc back into a Linux machine, because LR is the >>> only reason I bought it (my other Linux computer is for webdesign >>> work). Could have been Capture One or one of the other options as >>> well by the way, what I'm trying to say is not LR specific. >>> >>> >>> So, a lot of love and admiration for DT, but some suggestions for the >>> future :). >>> >>> >>> Jack >>> >>> >>> >>> Op 19-08-2020 om 10:00 schreef Pascal Obry: Hi Jason, > Overall impressions: a worthy improvement (thanks, developers!). I am > going to adjust to a new workflow with darktable 3.2, but it is not a > big adjustment. I think overall darktable has come very far since the > early days, and it is hard to believe such a program is free > software. Nice to read such message among all the bug reports. This amazing piece of work is maintained by many talented people accros the planet. The best we can do to keep our freedom against the big players trying to lock us down in their world which ressemble to a golden jail. Cheers, >>> >>>
Re: [darktable-user] language bug in DT 3.2 on MacOs
It seems you are reporting 2 bugs: 1). default language in darktable doesn't follow system settings - this is a known bug, where even if English is set as preferred language, darktable chooses second preferred language configured in the system: https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/issues/4038 2). language setting in preferences doesn't work for you - I can't reproduce this. Tried with empty ~/.config/darktable - I open preferences, change language from empty (meaning auto-detected, though it may be a bug that it's not displayed) to English, restart darktable and interface is in English (it was in Russian before). Maybe you forgot to restart darktable? Because modifying darktablerc shouldn't be different from using preferences dialog. On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:08:48 +0200 daniel patin wrote: > Hi, > accidentally, I found myself in German, with Darktable 3.2.1 on MacOs Catalina > and impossible to change the settings. > I was able to modify the .config/darktablerc file, but the drop-down list in > the settings doesn't work. > > — > Daniel Patin > https://mediators-le-niglo.fr > @leinadfr @mediatorsNiglo > > > darktable user mailing list > to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
[darktable-user] language bug in DT 3.2 on MacOs
Hi, accidentally, I found myself in German, with Darktable 3.2.1 on MacOs Catalina and impossible to change the settings. I was able to modify the .config/darktablerc file, but the drop-down list in the settings doesn't work. — Daniel Patin https://mediators-le-niglo.fr @leinadfr @mediatorsNiglo darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
Hi Michael. I agree ofcourse with what you say, but 'After a month'... is exactly what I mean. If it takes a month, something is not right. I never used LR, but opening it and - like I said - I could edit 99% of my images the way I want within 5 minutes. I even don't use Gimp anymore, unless my sensor had become too dirty ;). Op 22-08-2020 om 22:04 schreef Mikael Ståldal: The filmic module can be a bit intimidating and unfamiliar if you are used to Lightroom. But if you just spend a few hours watching videos and reading instructions, and practice on a dozen of your own images, you can become effective faster than you think. And it just got easier with Darktable 3.2! After about a month of using Darktable, I feel that I can do about the same as I did in Lightroom. And I have the option to spend some additional learning effort and be able to do a lot more that was not possible with Lightroom. So I agree with the sentiment: great and impressive work by the development team! On 2020-08-20 09:38, Kneops wrote: I agree, it is a marvellous piece of work, unbelievable really and I love it but not use it as much as I would like to. And I would never recommend it to friends :(. Even for me as a freelance photographer (20+ years of experience) it feels like it is made for techies, not (yet) intuitive enough. For example the filmic module is so full of options and sliders and words that are not obvious/comprehensible for most people and even I have much difficulty in understanding what they do. I just start using the sliders and always slide in the wrong direction at first ;). My feeling says that when I see a slider that says 'White relative exposure' I want to drag it to the right to get more white tones, but the opposite happens. I'm not a fan of Windows, Adobe and LR, but I still use the latter because it is intuitive. With a few sliders I get almost exactly what I want with 99% of my images and very fast (even though LR lacks speed and I don't like the catalogs/collections system of it). That is why most people still use LR I think. It has sliders that are called White Tones, Black Tones, Highlights, Texture, all very clear in what they do and how to use them. If DT wants to drag a lot of people to its open source alternative, imho it needs to be simplified. LR lacks power and options for more adjustments, but what it does it does quite nicely. Highlight and shadow recovery always looks very natural, whereas in DT highlight recovery is not good enough and shadow recovery can look very harsh and artificial. But... I'm really a fan of DT and hope I can use it on a daily basis and convert my newest pc back into a Linux machine, because LR is the only reason I bought it (my other Linux computer is for webdesign work). Could have been Capture One or one of the other options as well by the way, what I'm trying to say is not LR specific. So, a lot of love and admiration for DT, but some suggestions for the future :). Jack Op 19-08-2020 om 10:00 schreef Pascal Obry: Hi Jason, Overall impressions: a worthy improvement (thanks, developers!). I am going to adjust to a new workflow with darktable 3.2, but it is not a big adjustment. I think overall darktable has come very far since the early days, and it is hard to believe such a program is free software. Nice to read such message among all the bug reports. This amazing piece of work is maintained by many talented people accros the planet. The best we can do to keep our freedom against the big players trying to lock us down in their world which ressemble to a golden jail. Cheers, darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
