Re: [darktable-user] Can I invoke an external programme from DarkTable
You are correct: the primary value of PS (for me) is in its layering functionality. This makes it very adept at some specific tasks - in addition to its masking functions (which appear to be easier to use/understand than those in DT) it can, for example, expertly complete such complex tasks as changing the sky background of a photographically interesting tree. I don't know enough about other image editing applications (especially DT) to know if this effect is achievable as accurately and as (relatively) easily as it is in PS ( and I use CS6, now a very old version) - but I suspect not. The LR->PS->LR round trip is very straightforward, having specified PS and it's location as a suitable 'external editor' in LR settings. One can then invoke that editor from LR, at any point in the work flow within LR, very simply (menu item, mouse selectable or function key). LR passes the image file to PS which opens it in Adobe Camera RAW if it is a raw file; if the image is jpeg or TIFF, it is passed in 1 of 3 optional states: a) a copy of the original image with LR edits included, b) a copy of the original image untouched by LR, or c) send the original image (not a copy) untouched by LR. After editing the file is saved as a TIFF in PS and that editing window is closed. The PS-adjusted image is then optionally stacked with the 'original' In LR and editing can continue. Even though LR does not support layers, if the image is not flattened in PS before saving, the 'knowledge' of the layers is maintained by LR and can be exploited in a subsequent invocation of PS. All in all LR and PS are closely integrated - not seamless, but very close. I would be very satisfied if I could find a similar level of integration between DT and PS - or even GIMP, as that would allow me to work within Linux. The only reason I currently use Windows is because I use LR and PS and they are adequately integrated. My preference to use iMatch as a DAM could be reduced to using Digikam in Linux - but there would be some loss of function and usability (in my opinion). On 20/06/2020 13:47, Anton Aylward wrote: On 19/06/2020 07:03, Guillermo Rozas wrote: I find a frequent need to invoke Photoshop as part of my workflow when using LightRoom and assume this requirement might still exist if I switch to DarkTable. Is there a way to invoke any 'external' programme while working in DT ? Short answer: no (or 'not yet') Long answer: DT has some local retouching tools (like cloning and healing) and a very powerful masking system that allows you to apply any tool to very specific portions of the image. This usually negates the need for an external program like Photoshop for most people. Yes. My first thought on seeing the original question was "yes, but why? this is DT not LR". I'm a Linux user and not conversant wit those windows tools in detail but it occurs to me that what PS is doing is 'layers'. Is that the specific requirement? As you say, Guillermo, DT's tools are powerful. I have a number of books that notionally describe working in PS but I have no problem mentally translating them to work in DT. I'd like to ask the OP about how the LR-PS-LR process re-imports the image back into LR after PS has tweaked it. darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Can I invoke an external programme from DarkTable
Le dimanche 21 juin 2020 à 10:53 -0700, ey9zzhy...@liamekaens.com a écrit : > I'm also currently using Lightroom (5.7) and considering moving to > digicam and darktable. I've played around with both (on Windows 10, > although I'm considering trying to run them in WSL), but haven't been > systematic enough to know what I will miss from Lightroom, so I would be > interested to hear your thoughts on what is the loss of functionality > and usability for digicam (and darktable too) compared to Lightroom. You will loose almost nothing. I've been using Lr from long time (until 4.x). First start simple and use only darktable (you're using only Lr, why making the workflow more complex??). My advice, don't take our word. The move will take time as you will need to learn a new workflow. I've done the following: In parallel with Lightroom for each batch of picture I took 3 or 4 and edited them in darktable too. I was not very happy at the beginning, it gets me more time to edit each picture and the rendering was not good (because I did not know how to use dt properly). I did that for almost a full year. And when I felt happy with the result and satisfied by the time I spent to edit picture with dt I did the switch for good. That meant for me deleting my dual-boot kept only for Lr, reimporting all my pictures, reworking a bit the keywords. I don't think a switch faster than this will help. And again don't use digikam, not because it is a bad software but because there is issues mixing both (see error report we had on GitHub and previously in Redmine) and it is always better to start safe. My 2 cents, -- Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78) The best way to travel is by means of imagination http://www.obry.net gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Can I invoke an external programme from DarkTable
I'm also currently using Lightroom (5.7) and considering moving to digicam and darktable. I've played around with both (on Windows 10, although I'm considering trying to run them in WSL), but haven't been systematic enough to know what I will miss from Lightroom, so I would be interested to hear your thoughts on what is the loss of functionality and usability for digicam (and darktable too) compared to Lightroom. thanks, Peter Canning PS: If the digikam discussion is too off-topic for this list, feel free to reply to me directly. On 6/21/2020 7:52 AM, tony Hamilton shaky.start-at-ntlworld.com |darktable-user| wrote: You are correct: the primary value of PS (for me) is in its layering functionality. This makes it very adept at some specific tasks - in addition to its masking functions (which appear to be easier to use/understand than those in DT) it can, for example, expertly complete such complex tasks as changing the sky background of a photographically interesting tree. I don't know enough about other image editing applications (especially DT) to know if this effect is achievable as accurately and as (relatively) easily as it is in PS ( and I use CS6, now a very old version) - but I suspect not. The LR->PS->LR round trip is very straightforward, having specified PS and it's location as a suitable 'external editor' in LR settings. One can then invoke that editor from LR, at any point in the work flow within LR, very simply (menu item, mouse selectable or function key). LR passes the image file to PS which opens it in Adobe Camera RAW if it is a raw file; if the image is jpeg or TIFF, it is passed in 1 of 3 optional states: a) a copy of the original image with LR edits included, b) a copy of the original image untouched by LR, or c) send the original image (not a copy) untouched by LR. After editing the file is saved as a TIFF in PS and that editing window is closed. The PS-adjusted image is then optionally stacked with the 'original' In LR and editing can continue. Even though LR does not support layers, if the image is not flattened in PS before saving, the 'knowledge' of the layers is maintained by LR and can be exploited in a subsequent invocation of PS. All in all LR and PS are closely integrated - not seamless, but very close. I would be very satisfied if I could find a similar level of integration between DT and PS - or even GIMP, as that would allow me to work within Linux. The only reason I currently use Windows is because I use LR and PS and they are adequately integrated. My preference to use iMatch as a DAM could be reduced to using Digikam in Linux - but there would be some loss of function and usability (in my opinion). On 20/06/2020 13:47, Anton Aylward wrote: On 19/06/2020 07:03, Guillermo Rozas wrote: I find a frequent need to invoke Photoshop as part of my workflow when using LightRoom and assume this requirement might still exist if I switch to DarkTable. Is there a way to invoke any 'external' programme while working in DT ? Short answer: no (or 'not yet') Long answer: DT has some local retouching tools (like cloning and healing) and a very powerful masking system that allows you to apply any tool to very specific portions of the image. This usually negates the need for an external program like Photoshop for most people. Yes. My first thought on seeing the original question was "yes, but why? this is DT not LR". I'm a Linux user and not conversant wit those windows tools in detail but it occurs to me that what PS is doing is 'layers'. Is that the specific requirement? As you say, Guillermo, DT's tools are powerful. I have a number of books that notionally describe working in PS but I have no problem mentally translating them to work in DT. I'd like to ask the OP about how the LR-PS-LR process re-imports the image back into LR after PS has tweaked it. darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Can I invoke an external programme from DarkTable
Lua is the programming language that the scripts are written in. Instructions for installing the lua scripts, and enabling them, are available at https://github.com/darktable-org/lua-scripts. When the GIMP plugin is activated, an extra export target (Edit with GIMP) is available in the storage section of the export selected module. On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 6:01 PM Terry Pinfold wrote: > I have installed plugins for GIMP before. Reasonably easy but what does > Lua stand for and how do I incorporate it into DT. I googled the Lua to > activate GIMP but to me it seemed to be a load of text and I was unsure > what to do with it. Advice appreciated. > Thanks > > On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 22:00, Pascal Obry wrote: > >> Le vendredi 19 juin 2020 à 08:03 -0300, Guillermo Rozas a écrit : >> > > I find a frequent need to invoke Photoshop as part of my workflow >> when >> > > using LightRoom and assume this requirement might still exist if I >> > > switch to DarkTable. Is there a way to invoke any 'external' >> programme >> > > while working in DT ? >> > >> > Short answer: no (or 'not yet') >> >> There is some Lua plug-ins to launch GIMP for example. This breaks the >> workflow (as does Lr & Photoshop) but it exists. >> >> -- >> Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78) >> >> The best way to travel is by means of imagination >> >> http://www.obry.net >> >> gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B >> >> >> >> darktable user mailing list >> to unsubscribe send a mail to >> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org >> >> > > -- > Dr Terry Pinfold > Cytometry & Histology Lab Manager > Lecturer in Flow Cytometry > University of Tasmania > 17 Liverpool St, Hobart, 7000 > Ph 6226 4846 or 0408 699053 > > > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Can I invoke an external programme from DarkTable
I have installed plugins for GIMP before. Reasonably easy but what does Lua stand for and how do I incorporate it into DT. I googled the Lua to activate GIMP but to me it seemed to be a load of text and I was unsure what to do with it. Advice appreciated. Thanks On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 22:00, Pascal Obry wrote: > Le vendredi 19 juin 2020 à 08:03 -0300, Guillermo Rozas a écrit : > > > I find a frequent need to invoke Photoshop as part of my workflow when > > > using LightRoom and assume this requirement might still exist if I > > > switch to DarkTable. Is there a way to invoke any 'external' programme > > > while working in DT ? > > > > Short answer: no (or 'not yet') > > There is some Lua plug-ins to launch GIMP for example. This breaks the > workflow (as does Lr & Photoshop) but it exists. > > -- > Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78) > > The best way to travel is by means of imagination > > http://www.obry.net > > gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B > > > > darktable user mailing list > to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > -- Dr Terry Pinfold Cytometry & Histology Lab Manager Lecturer in Flow Cytometry University of Tasmania 17 Liverpool St, Hobart, 7000 Ph 6226 4846 or 0408 699053 darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Can I invoke an external programme from DarkTable
On samedi 20 juin 2020 14:47:22 CEST Anton Aylward wrote: (...) > > My first thought on seeing the original question was "yes, but why? this is > DT not LR". I'm a Linux user and not conversant wit those windows tools in > detail but it occurs to me that what PS is doing is 'layers'. Is that the > specific requirement? As you say, Guillermo, DT's tools are powerful. I > have a number of books that notionally describe working in PS but I have no > problem mentally translating them to work in DT. Basically, DT is a parametric editor that works on one image: you describe the transformation, possibly with a mask to limit the area to which it is applied. That works for a lot of the required editing, but sometimes you need to be able to work with pixel precision, or with several files at once. And that's where programs like krita, Gimp and PS come in. Creating a very precise mask for e.g. dodging and burning is a lot easier in such programs than it is in DT, as you can literally paint (a mask) pixel by pixel. Also, things like adding precisely placed text is relatively easy. The down-side of that is that the image files they need can get very large. And you almost need a graphics tablet to comfortably work with that precision. Layers are needed for some jobs (like making composites) and handy for others, but they are not the critical difference. Remco darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Can I invoke an external programme from DarkTable
On 19/06/2020 07:03, Guillermo Rozas wrote: > > I find a frequent need to invoke Photoshop as part of my workflow when > using LightRoom and assume this requirement might still exist if I > switch to DarkTable. Is there a way to invoke any 'external' programme > while working in DT ? > > > Short answer: no (or 'not yet') > > Long answer: > > DT has some local retouching tools (like cloning and healing) and a very > powerful > masking system that allows you to apply any tool to very specific portions of > the > image. This usually negates the need for an external program like Photoshop > for > most people. Yes. My first thought on seeing the original question was "yes, but why? this is DT not LR". I'm a Linux user and not conversant wit those windows tools in detail but it occurs to me that what PS is doing is 'layers'. Is that the specific requirement? As you say, Guillermo, DT's tools are powerful. I have a number of books that notionally describe working in PS but I have no problem mentally translating them to work in DT. I'd like to ask the OP about how the LR-PS-LR process re-imports the image back into LR after PS has tweaked it. -- "Minds are what brains do." -- Marvin Minsky darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Can I invoke an external programme from DarkTable
When you use the lua-script, gimp.lua to do the export, the result is imported back in and grouped with the original file. You could also use the retouch module in darktable which includes a healing tool. I used to go to GIMP for all my retouching, but now I seldom use it because I can accomplish what I need in darktable. On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 6:40 PM Terry Pinfold wrote: > Regardless of LR or DT when you want to work in another editor such as PS > or GIMP the raw image must be exported as a new file with tiff being > superior to jpeg for this purpose. I would just like to see an easier > option to do this process. But currently I am scanning hundreds of old > images as tiff files, I open the tiff files in DT and perform certain > functions that darktable does really well including denoise, sharpen and > local contrast (save as a style). I then export the image and open the > image in GIMP and use the healing tool to remove dust and scratches (prefer > GIMP for this) and also might do some final tweaks for color, levels or > curves (yes these could have been done in darktable). The only advantage LR > has over DT is that it would track the export of the image and include it > in the catalog. Maybe if DT could do an export and automatically include > the image in its catalog that might be a minor improvement. But really DT > is not a great catalog system but an incredible raw editor. Great job done > by the developers with DT and the developers of GIMP. > > On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 22:34, Pascal Obry wrote: > >> Le vendredi 19 juin 2020 à 09:23 -0300, Guillermo Rozas a écrit : >> > Ok. I was of the impression that the LR-PS integration was tighter >> > and didn't break the workflow (never used them). If they do, yes >> > those Lua scripts work like that. >> >> Maybe this has improved recently but last time I saw a demo there was >> an export of the image from Lr, and import in Ps, some work done in Ps >> and then a re-import as a duplicate in Lr (don't remember the Lr term >> for this) with the Ps work in it. >> >> -- >> Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78) >> >> The best way to travel is by means of imagination >> >> http://www.obry.net >> >> gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B >> >> >> >> darktable user mailing list >> to unsubscribe send a mail to >> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org >> >> > > -- > Dr Terry Pinfold > Cytometry & Histology Lab Manager > Lecturer in Flow Cytometry > University of Tasmania > 17 Liverpool St, Hobart, 7000 > Ph 6226 4846 or 0408 699053 > > > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Can I invoke an external programme from DarkTable
Regardless of LR or DT when you want to work in another editor such as PS or GIMP the raw image must be exported as a new file with tiff being superior to jpeg for this purpose. I would just like to see an easier option to do this process. But currently I am scanning hundreds of old images as tiff files, I open the tiff files in DT and perform certain functions that darktable does really well including denoise, sharpen and local contrast (save as a style). I then export the image and open the image in GIMP and use the healing tool to remove dust and scratches (prefer GIMP for this) and also might do some final tweaks for color, levels or curves (yes these could have been done in darktable). The only advantage LR has over DT is that it would track the export of the image and include it in the catalog. Maybe if DT could do an export and automatically include the image in its catalog that might be a minor improvement. But really DT is not a great catalog system but an incredible raw editor. Great job done by the developers with DT and the developers of GIMP. On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 22:34, Pascal Obry wrote: > Le vendredi 19 juin 2020 à 09:23 -0300, Guillermo Rozas a écrit : > > Ok. I was of the impression that the LR-PS integration was tighter > > and didn't break the workflow (never used them). If they do, yes > > those Lua scripts work like that. > > Maybe this has improved recently but last time I saw a demo there was > an export of the image from Lr, and import in Ps, some work done in Ps > and then a re-import as a duplicate in Lr (don't remember the Lr term > for this) with the Ps work in it. > > -- > Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78) > > The best way to travel is by means of imagination > > http://www.obry.net > > gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B > > > > darktable user mailing list > to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > -- Dr Terry Pinfold Cytometry & Histology Lab Manager Lecturer in Flow Cytometry University of Tasmania 17 Liverpool St, Hobart, 7000 Ph 6226 4846 or 0408 699053 darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Can I invoke an external programme from DarkTable
Le vendredi 19 juin 2020 à 09:23 -0300, Guillermo Rozas a écrit : > Ok. I was of the impression that the LR-PS integration was tighter > and didn't break the workflow (never used them). If they do, yes > those Lua scripts work like that. Maybe this has improved recently but last time I saw a demo there was an export of the image from Lr, and import in Ps, some work done in Ps and then a re-import as a duplicate in Lr (don't remember the Lr term for this) with the Ps work in it. -- Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78) The best way to travel is by means of imagination http://www.obry.net gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
[darktable-user] Can I invoke an external programme from DarkTable
I find a frequent need to invoke Photoshop as part of my workflow when using LightRoom and assume this requirement might still exist if I switch to DarkTable. Is there a way to invoke any 'external' programme while working in DT ? darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Can I invoke an external programme from DarkTable
> > Short answer: no (or 'not yet') > > There is some Lua plug-ins to launch GIMP for example. This breaks the > workflow (as does Lr & Photoshop) but it exists. > Ok. I was of the impression that the LR-PS integration was tighter and didn't break the workflow (never used them). If they do, yes those Lua scripts work like that. Best regards, Guillermo darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Can I invoke an external programme from DarkTable
Le vendredi 19 juin 2020 à 08:03 -0300, Guillermo Rozas a écrit : > > I find a frequent need to invoke Photoshop as part of my workflow when > > using LightRoom and assume this requirement might still exist if I > > switch to DarkTable. Is there a way to invoke any 'external' programme > > while working in DT ? > > Short answer: no (or 'not yet') There is some Lua plug-ins to launch GIMP for example. This breaks the workflow (as does Lr & Photoshop) but it exists. -- Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78) The best way to travel is by means of imagination http://www.obry.net gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Can I invoke an external programme from DarkTable
> I find a frequent need to invoke Photoshop as part of my workflow when > using LightRoom and assume this requirement might still exist if I > switch to DarkTable. Is there a way to invoke any 'external' programme > while working in DT ? > Short answer: no (or 'not yet') Long answer: DT has some local retouching tools (like cloning and healing) and a very powerful masking system that allows you to apply any tool to very specific portions of the image. This usually negates the need for an external program like Photoshop for most people. If you need to do retouching beyond DT's capabilities you currently have a couple of options: - some Photoshop-like programs (for example, Gimp and Krita) can use DT as their RAW processor. This would be like calling LR from PS, the exported picture ends up in the canvas of the caller program for further retouch - you can always export from DT to a 16 or 32bit TIFF and edit that image in your external program Both these options are not ideal because there is an implicit order: you can't intermix DT and the external program editions (unless you re-import the result), and you need to keep track of them independently. However, there is some work underway to add the LR->PS->LR workflow you are asking for, specifically calling Krita from DT and including its editions in the history of the file. This would make all editions fully reproducible and non-destructive. See here: https://discuss.pixls.us/t/wiring-darktable-with-krita-nsfw/14938 (by the way: I recommend you to check that forum, it's much more active than this mailing list) Best regards, Guillermo darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
