Re: a Debian executable on Android
Yes, but being unable to update the kernel is problematic. For example, android versions of kernels often lack features linux users expect, like iptables. Debian userland without ability to update host OS past vendor abandonment has issues. On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 7:28 PM Alan Corey wrote: > > There are also odd ways of running Debian under Android like the > Debian kit. They use Android's Linux kernel and supply most of a > Debian userland. The trouble is it's pretty busy accomplishing > nothing in Android, the load average in Debian is pretty high. Search > Debian on Google Play if you're interested. I haven't bothered with > it in a while. > > On 3/25/19, Tony Godshall wrote: > >> Also, any device that has a yes in the mainline column for postmarketOS: > >> > >> https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices > > > > OK, so that's a precious short list, many not actual hardware, with > > two surprises (Sony). > > > > Generic Generic x64 uefi > > LG Nexus 5 lg-hammerhead > > Nokia N9 > > Nokia N900 > > Pine A64-LTS > > Qemu aarch64 > > QEMU amd64 > > Qemu vexpress > > Raspberry Pi Foundation Raspberry Pi 1 & 2 > > Raspberry Pi Foundation Raspberry Pi 3 > > Raspberry Pi Foundation Raspberry Pi Zero > > Sony Xperia Z2 > > Sony Xperia Z2 Tablet > > Teclast X80 Pro > > TrekStor Surftab Wintron 7.0 > > > > > > > -- > - > No, I won't call it "climate change", do you have a "reality problem"? - > AB1JX > Cities are cages built to contain excess people and keep them from > cluttering up nature. > Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach -- -- Best Regards. This is unedited. This message came out of me via a suboptimal keyboard.
Re: a Debian executable on Android
On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 10:28 AM Alan Corey wrote: > There are also odd ways of running Debian under Android like the > Debian kit. They use Android's Linux kernel and supply most of a > Debian userland. The trouble is it's pretty busy accomplishing > nothing in Android, the load average in Debian is pretty high. Search > Debian on Google Play if you're interested. I haven't bothered with > it in a while. This wiki page documents how to do this both with existing Android apps and by doing it manually. https://wiki.debian.org/ChrootOnAndroid -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Re: a Debian executable on Android
There are also odd ways of running Debian under Android like the Debian kit. They use Android's Linux kernel and supply most of a Debian userland. The trouble is it's pretty busy accomplishing nothing in Android, the load average in Debian is pretty high. Search Debian on Google Play if you're interested. I haven't bothered with it in a while. On 3/25/19, Tony Godshall wrote: >> Also, any device that has a yes in the mainline column for postmarketOS: >> >> https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices > > OK, so that's a precious short list, many not actual hardware, with > two surprises (Sony). > > Generic Generic x64 uefi > LG Nexus 5 lg-hammerhead > Nokia N9 > Nokia N900 > Pine A64-LTS > Qemu aarch64 > QEMU amd64 > Qemu vexpress > Raspberry Pi Foundation Raspberry Pi 1 & 2 > Raspberry Pi Foundation Raspberry Pi 3 > Raspberry Pi Foundation Raspberry Pi Zero > Sony Xperia Z2 > Sony Xperia Z2 Tablet > Teclast X80 Pro > TrekStor Surftab Wintron 7.0 > > -- - No, I won't call it "climate change", do you have a "reality problem"? - AB1JX Cities are cages built to contain excess people and keep them from cluttering up nature. Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach
Re: a Debian executable on Android
On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 7:05 AM Tony Godshall wrote: > OK, so that's a precious short list Yes. For that to change we need either phone vendors to be convinced that mainlining their Linux kernel changes (including for obsolete phones) is a good idea, or for there to be enough people from the Linux kernel community who are continually obtaining source code from vendors, rewriting it to be suitable for mainline (and or reverse engineering blobs) and getting it included in mainline. At this point neither seems likely to me. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Re: a Debian executable on Android
> Also, any device that has a yes in the mainline column for postmarketOS: > > https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices OK, so that's a precious short list, many not actual hardware, with two surprises (Sony). Generic Generic x64 uefi LG Nexus 5 lg-hammerhead Nokia N9 Nokia N900 Pine A64-LTS Qemu aarch64 QEMU amd64 Qemu vexpress Raspberry Pi Foundation Raspberry Pi 1 & 2 Raspberry Pi Foundation Raspberry Pi 3 Raspberry Pi Foundation Raspberry Pi Zero Sony Xperia Z2 Sony Xperia Z2 Tablet Teclast X80 Pro TrekStor Surftab Wintron 7.0
Re: a Debian executable on Android
On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 6:37 AM Tony Godshall wrote: > These do not seem to be available, where they ever offered? Not sure, but some future possibilities for running Debian on phones: https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://necunos.com/ https://itsfoss.com/pinebook-kde-smartphone/ Also, any device that has a yes in the mainline column for postmarketOS: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Re: a Debian executable on Android
> Well, there's the Ubuntu Phone, not pure Debian, but probably the > closest you can get on current hardware without rooting a device: > > https://store.bq.com/en/ubuntu-edition-e5/ > > and a Tablet is also coming: > > http://www.bq.com/es/aquaris-m10-ubuntu-edition > > I don't know how much this is locked down though, and whether it would > be possible to replace Ubuntu easily - i.e. what "added value" is > provided by Canonical. These do not seem to be available, where they ever offered? I see Ubuntu Touch is available on Nexus 7 2nd gen aka 2013. Perhaps if there was enough demand, a manufacturer could be convinced to make a clone of this very popular device, maybe even the OEM, Asus. It would be awesome to have an unlocked debian device in this very sleek (if someone fragile) form factor.
Re: a Debian executable on Android
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 10:57 PM, Peter Easthope wrote: > In summary, a moving target of proprietary hardware can > not be tracked effectively by a community of volunteers, > enthusiastic and energetic as they are. A necessary > condition for the communal approach is a relatively stable > open hardware specification. Some years hence, an ISO > standard handy or tablet might be possible. Probably cell > support should be ignored until significant progress with > the "carrier contract" problem. Most of the Linux kernel community are employees not volunteers these days, but yes, there isn't the right combination of skills, motivation and time to do this for every piece of ARM mobile hardware. The modularisation approach taken by Fairphone and Motorola/Google (Project Ara) may lead to some standardisation of some sort, we will see. > No thoughts about the original topic? More specifically, > "... installation of debian armel or armhf or arm64 or > similar, using one of the apps, "Linux Deploy" and "Complete > Linux Installer"." Those sound exactly like the apps on the ChrootOnAndroid wiki page that I linked to in the second post in this thread. Indeed, "Linux Deploy" is even linked from the wiki page. "Complete Linux Installer" appears to be proprietary though so no-one added it. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Re: a Debian executable on Android
On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Alan Corey wrote: > Does build.prop do any good toward a device list? Completely unrelated to the Linux kernel as far as I can tell. > For that matter I'm not sure where a build.prop comes from, my guess > is an output from the kernel build telling what options were selected. Seems to be more like an Android OS build than Linux kernel build. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Re: Re (2): Correction: Re: a Debian executable on Android
Re (2): Correction: Re: a Debian executable on Android Yes, I was studying how to write apps but I'll be 62 in a few months myself, I may not live that long. Not to mention I've been trying to "repo sync" (git-based) their source tree for about 6 weeks to try to compile under OpenBSD. I just hit 9 gigs, no idea how much is left. I'm trying Lazarus which can cross-compile to an impressive list of platforms, including Android. http://www.getlazarus.org There's some version in Debian packages too. Android has their own variant of selinux that's not totally compatible with the original, which defaults to enforcing mode since Android 5. If the device is rooted you can switch it to permissive mode. On 4/9/16, pe...@easthope.ca wrote: > FWIIW, access to most of the Daimler car2go vehicles > here requires their app running on android or an apple device. > Primarily for that, I purchased an XO Tablet. Apparently the > fastest machine I now own. 2nd hand and under 50 US dollars. > > From: Alan Corey , Sat, 9 Apr 2016 17:44:05 -0400 >> Aside from practical considerations of running under Android you're >> also going to have deal with their paranoia about such things, which >> is quite evolved. > > You mean Google's paranoia; not debian user's paranoia. =8~) > >> Every app runs as its own user in pretty much a >> chroot jail with limited permissions, that sort of thing. They use >> Java partly because it has provisions they can tailor to their system >> of providers and users of services. Every app comes with a manifest >> specifying which permissions it needs and which services it uses and >> provides. > > Thanks for outlining this. I've encountered numerous odd constraints > and convolutions in a few months of experimenting with the tablet. > Considering this, the bochs app works amazingly well. I wondered > whether Linux Deploy or Complete Linux Installer would be as effective. > >> This might be a good starting point for looking at the >> situation: >> http://developer.android.com/training/articles/security-tips.html > > Could be another project. Being a senior now, my concern is to > finish existing projects rather than begin new ones. Meanwhile I'll > lobby Daimler to offer a purely HTML5 app and content myself with > android until the picture improves. > > By the way, the Spark Modular Tablet is appealing although too large for > my purposes. http://www.instructables.com/id/Spark-The-DIY-Modular-Tablet/ > > Thanks,... Peter E. > > -- > 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12 > Tel +1 360 639 0202 > http://easthope.ca/Peter.html Bcc: peter at easthope. ca > > -- Credit is the root of all evil. - AB1JX
Re (2): Correction: Re: a Debian executable on Android
FWIIW, access to most of the Daimler car2go vehicles here requires their app running on android or an apple device. Primarily for that, I purchased an XO Tablet. Apparently the fastest machine I now own. 2nd hand and under 50 US dollars. From: Alan Corey , Sat, 9 Apr 2016 17:44:05 -0400 > Aside from practical considerations of running under Android you're > also going to have deal with their paranoia about such things, which > is quite evolved. You mean Google's paranoia; not debian user's paranoia. =8~) > Every app runs as its own user in pretty much a > chroot jail with limited permissions, that sort of thing. They use > Java partly because it has provisions they can tailor to their system > of providers and users of services. Every app comes with a manifest > specifying which permissions it needs and which services it uses and > provides. Thanks for outlining this. I've encountered numerous odd constraints and convolutions in a few months of experimenting with the tablet. Considering this, the bochs app works amazingly well. I wondered whether Linux Deploy or Complete Linux Installer would be as effective. > This might be a good starting point for looking at the > situation: http://developer.android.com/training/articles/security-tips.html Could be another project. Being a senior now, my concern is to finish existing projects rather than begin new ones. Meanwhile I'll lobby Daimler to offer a purely HTML5 app and content myself with android until the picture improves. By the way, the Spark Modular Tablet is appealing although too large for my purposes. http://www.instructables.com/id/Spark-The-DIY-Modular-Tablet/ Thanks,... Peter E. -- 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12 Tel +1 360 639 0202 http://easthope.ca/Peter.html Bcc: peter at easthope. ca
Re: Correction: Re: a Debian executable on Android
Aside from practical considerations of running under Android you're also going to have deal with their paranoia about such things, which is quite evolved. Every app runs as its own user in pretty much a chroot jail with limited permissions, that sort of thing. They use Java partly because it has provisions they can tailor to their system of providers and users of services. Every app comes with a manifest specifying which permissions it needs and which services it uses and provides. This might be a good starting point for looking at the situation: http://developer.android.com/training/articles/security-tips.html On 4/9/16, pe...@easthope.ca wrote: > Correction: A _refinement_ of the original topic. > "... installation of debian armel or armhf or arm64 or > similar, using one of the apps, "Linux Deploy" and "Complete > Linux Installer"." > > Thanks, ... Peter E. > > -- > 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12 > Tel +1 360 639 0202 > http://easthope.ca/Peter.html Bcc: peter at easthope. ca > > -- Credit is the root of all evil. - AB1JX
Correction: Re: a Debian executable on Android
Correction: A _refinement_ of the original topic. "... installation of debian armel or armhf or arm64 or similar, using one of the apps, "Linux Deploy" and "Complete Linux Installer"." Thanks, ... Peter E. -- 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12 Tel +1 360 639 0202 http://easthope.ca/Peter.html Bcc: peter at easthope. ca
Re: a Debian executable on Android
I've truncated the references. They can always be traced in the index page. From: Paul Wise Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 14:01:47 +0800 > ... each device vendor had their own boot mechanisms. More recently UEFI/ACPI > have emerged as the standard boot mechanism for ARM servers so we may > see that on mobile too at some point. At the same time, mobile devices > have a life span of a couple of years due to the way people get them > on phone network contracts. ... In summary, a moving target of proprietary hardware can not be tracked effectively by a community of volunteers, enthusiastic and energetic as they are. A necessary condition for the communal approach is a relatively stable open hardware specification. Some years hence, an ISO standard handy or tablet might be possible. Probably cell support should be ignored until significant progress with the "carrier contract" problem. No thoughts about the original topic? More specifically, "... installation of debian armel or armhf or arm64 or similar, using one of the apps, "Linux Deploy" and "Complete Linux Installer"." Regards, ... Peter E. -- 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12 Tel +1 360 639 0202 http://easthope.ca/Peter.html Bcc: peter at easthope. ca
Re: a Debian executable on Android
From: Paul Wise Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 13:07:06 +0800 > There are several ways to have Debian under Android: > > https://wiki.debian.org/ChrootOnAndroid OK, thanks. I've also found https://www.debian.org/ports/arm/ . A naive approach is to attempt installation of debian armel or armhf or arm64 or similar, using using one of the apps, "Linux Deploy" and "Complete Linux Installer". Inadvisable? Feasible? Thanks, ... Peter E. -- 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12 Tel +1 360 639 0202 http://easthope.ca/Peter.html Bcc: peter at easthope. ca
Re: a Debian executable on Android
Does build.prop do any good toward a device list? Write something to import it? For that matter I'm not sure where a build.prop comes from, my guess is an output from the kernel build telling what options were selected. So is it possible to build a kernel keeping the necessary Android options but adding ones we want? I think some guys on XDA do that, but not with an eye toward mainstream Linux compatibility. I built Linux kernel once years ago, used to build them for FreeBSD and OpenBSD several times a year. Keep Android stuff in a DMZ? Re phones on network contracts, Motorola at least sells crippled phones cheaply that are different from the full-price retail version. I had a Motorola XT1527 I picked up cheaply on eBay which had been sold to "Go Phone". Motorola's web form wouldn't give me the unlock code for the bootloader, so it couldn't be rooted (from my viewpoint). I also couldn't tether with it. Returned it, paid the $159 for the retail version direct from Motorola and everything works fine. Same model number. So I plan to stay away from contract phones. I'm on Straight Talk anyway. Contract phones deserve to be ignored, they're disposable appliances. On 4/8/16, Paul Wise wrote: > On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Alan Corey wrote: > >> I haven't looked into it far enough, but why can't Linux use Android's >> device drivers that already exist? Do the hardware manufacturers own >> them? It doesn't seem like it should be that different from a video >> card or a network card driver. Google claims most of Android is open >> source. The pace may be a bit much, phones come on the market and >> become obsolete much quicker than other hardware. As I type into my >> 14 year old desktop... > > It is complicated... > > A big part of it is the differences between ARM and PC architectures. > Also, for years there was the Android fork of the Linux kernel, which > had a bunch of new APIs but is mostly or all merged into mainline > Linux these days I think(?). The vendors of CPUs, SoCs and mobile > devices then forked from the Android fork of Linux, usually one fork > per CPU, then one fork per SoC and one fork per mobile device, but > sometimes some of those were shared within a vendor and some vendors > did forward changes upstream. The Android-fork-specific APIs prevented > sending drivers upstream to Linux mainline. In addition, the ARM > architecture has no standard way of enumerating available devices and > in Linux each device was supported by a compiled .c file and each > Linux kernel binary could only run on one device. Linus got annoyed > with this mess of .c files which leading to Linux on ARM adopting > device-tree as a standard way to describe hardware. Right now, most > devices don't ship device-tree files in the boot firmware but the > Linux source tree has a repository of device-tree. This is changing as > device-tree for ARM solidifies and becomes an ABI. In addition, each > device vendor had their own boot mechanisms. More recently UEFI/ACPI > have emerged as the standard boot mechanism for ARM servers so we may > see that on mobile too at some point. At the same time, mobile devices > have a life span of a couple of years due to the way people get them > on phone network contracts. There often isn't enough time within two > years to upstream all the changes into Linux mainline and once a > device is out, there is no motivation to do that. The Linux kernel > community meanwhile is using mobile devices but they work fine and > they don't want to brick their phone, so they have no interest in > mainlining that stuff. There is probably more to it than that, but > this is the problem in a nutshell. > > Some links around this: > > https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/682459/7e095da9f8e8fb2a/ > https://lwn.net/Articles/616859/ > https://lwn.net/Articles/573409/ > https://lwn.net/Articles/572692/ > http://elinux.org/CE_Workgroup_Device_Mainlining_Project > https://lwn.net/Articles/662147/ > https://lwn.net/Articles/481661/ > https://lwn.net/Articles/472984/ > https://lwn.net/Articles/514901/ > https://lwn.net/Articles/647524/ > http://elinux.org/LWN_Obstacles_article_details > http://elinux.org/Kernel_Mainlining > http://elinux.org/Mainlining_improvement_ideas > > -- > bye, > pabs > > https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise > > -- Credit is the root of all evil. - AB1JX
Re: a Debian executable on Android
On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Alan Corey wrote: > I haven't looked into it far enough, but why can't Linux use Android's > device drivers that already exist? Do the hardware manufacturers own > them? It doesn't seem like it should be that different from a video > card or a network card driver. Google claims most of Android is open > source. The pace may be a bit much, phones come on the market and > become obsolete much quicker than other hardware. As I type into my > 14 year old desktop... It is complicated... A big part of it is the differences between ARM and PC architectures. Also, for years there was the Android fork of the Linux kernel, which had a bunch of new APIs but is mostly or all merged into mainline Linux these days I think(?). The vendors of CPUs, SoCs and mobile devices then forked from the Android fork of Linux, usually one fork per CPU, then one fork per SoC and one fork per mobile device, but sometimes some of those were shared within a vendor and some vendors did forward changes upstream. The Android-fork-specific APIs prevented sending drivers upstream to Linux mainline. In addition, the ARM architecture has no standard way of enumerating available devices and in Linux each device was supported by a compiled .c file and each Linux kernel binary could only run on one device. Linus got annoyed with this mess of .c files which leading to Linux on ARM adopting device-tree as a standard way to describe hardware. Right now, most devices don't ship device-tree files in the boot firmware but the Linux source tree has a repository of device-tree. This is changing as device-tree for ARM solidifies and becomes an ABI. In addition, each device vendor had their own boot mechanisms. More recently UEFI/ACPI have emerged as the standard boot mechanism for ARM servers so we may see that on mobile too at some point. At the same time, mobile devices have a life span of a couple of years due to the way people get them on phone network contracts. There often isn't enough time within two years to upstream all the changes into Linux mainline and once a device is out, there is no motivation to do that. The Linux kernel community meanwhile is using mobile devices but they work fine and they don't want to brick their phone, so they have no interest in mainlining that stuff. There is probably more to it than that, but this is the problem in a nutshell. Some links around this: https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/682459/7e095da9f8e8fb2a/ https://lwn.net/Articles/616859/ https://lwn.net/Articles/573409/ https://lwn.net/Articles/572692/ http://elinux.org/CE_Workgroup_Device_Mainlining_Project https://lwn.net/Articles/662147/ https://lwn.net/Articles/481661/ https://lwn.net/Articles/472984/ https://lwn.net/Articles/514901/ https://lwn.net/Articles/647524/ http://elinux.org/LWN_Obstacles_article_details http://elinux.org/Kernel_Mainlining http://elinux.org/Mainlining_improvement_ideas -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Re: a Debian executable on Android
I haven't looked into it far enough, but why can't Linux use Android's device drivers that already exist? Do the hardware manufacturers own them? It doesn't seem like it should be that different from a video card or a network card driver. Google claims most of Android is open source. The pace may be a bit much, phones come on the market and become obsolete much quicker than other hardware. As I type into my 14 year old desktop... On 4/7/16, Paul Wise wrote: > On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 6:23 AM, Alan Corey wrote: > >> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices > > Seems like all of these run a custom version of Linux that looks like > it might be the Android version of Linux. > > -- > bye, > pabs > > https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise > > -- Credit is the root of all evil. - AB1JX
Re: a Debian executable on Android
On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 6:23 AM, Alan Corey wrote: > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices Seems like all of these run a custom version of Linux that looks like it might be the Android version of Linux. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Re: a Debian executable on Android
There's a list of devices here that Ubuntu Touch runs on, including some Android emulators. Most of them old, they seem to want you to compile your own image and donate it back. Apparently you can submit a request on their mailing list. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices I'm not a big fan of Ubuntu but if it's the only alternative to Android I might try it someday. On 4/7/16, Gert Wollny wrote: > Am Donnerstag, den 07.04.2016, 19:04 +1000 schrieb Andrew McGlashan: >> >> >> Given the security [or lack thereof, in reality] of both iOS and >> Android, I would rather have Debian directly on a mobile. >> > > Well, there's the Ubuntu Phone, not pure Debian, but probably the > closest you can get on current hardware without rooting a device: > > https://store.bq.com/en/ubuntu-edition-e5/ > > and a Tablet is also coming: > > http://www.bq.com/es/aquaris-m10-ubuntu-edition > > I don't know how much this is locked down though, and whether it would > be possible to replace Ubuntu easily - i.e. what "added value" is > provided by Canonical. > > Best, > Gert > > -- Credit is the root of all evil. - AB1JX
Re: a Debian executable on Android
Am Donnerstag, den 07.04.2016, 19:04 +1000 schrieb Andrew McGlashan: > > > Given the security [or lack thereof, in reality] of both iOS and > Android, I would rather have Debian directly on a mobile. > Well, there's the Ubuntu Phone, not pure Debian, but probably the closest you can get on current hardware without rooting a device: https://store.bq.com/en/ubuntu-edition-e5/ and a Tablet is also coming: http://www.bq.com/es/aquaris-m10-ubuntu-edition I don't know how much this is locked down though, and whether it would be possible to replace Ubuntu easily - i.e. what "added value" is provided by Canonical. Best, Gert
Re: a Debian executable on Android
Did you try alibaba.com re prices? Android does have a "Native" mode, mostly meaning not Java. Ubuntu Touch (I think) aims at replacing Android. I have Debian Kit running on a rooted phone. Not chrooted. But I think drivers for things like the GPU, display, GPS are still lacking. I run Tight VNC server under Linux communicating with an Android VNC client. There is now an X client under Android but Real VNC's zooming and panning seems more evolved. I get really tired of band-aid approaches to security that lead to bloat, whether it's from Google or Microsoft. I've been an OpenBSD user for 15 years and there's none of that crap despite it having one of the best security records in the industry. Correct code is secure code, you don't allow things like buffer overflows to happen. It's built in at a compiler level, things like strncpy instead of strcpy. The compiler warns you when you do something that's a bad idea. On 4/7/16, Tim Small wrote: > > On 07/04/16 16:02, Andrew McGlashan wrote: >> outdated >> Android is what I have to settle for unless I spring for a Google sold >> device and prices / availability in AU aren't as good as they are in the >> US. > > You have a reasonable choice of devices with Cyanogenmod and/or AOSP > etc. - updates are the usual Android style >100M download (or at least > they were last time I looked), but you usually get them next-day at > least (instead of in a few months via the vendors)... > > I've run a Debian chroot on Cyanogenmod in the past. > > You can probably find something cheap with a reasonable spec in this lot: > > http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Devices#cmversions="13","13.0";; > > There is also a project to build an Android phone from hardware with > open drivers too, but the name of it escapes me. > > Of course I would prefer to run straight Debian on the devices too, but > if the N900 isn't for you, and neither is the amount of hacking required > to get the upstream kernel running on your device, then perhaps these > are a reasonable compromise. > > Tim. > > -- Credit is the root of all evil. - AB1JX
Re: a Debian executable on Android
On 07/04/16 16:02, Andrew McGlashan wrote: > outdated > Android is what I have to settle for unless I spring for a Google sold > device and prices / availability in AU aren't as good as they are in the US. You have a reasonable choice of devices with Cyanogenmod and/or AOSP etc. - updates are the usual Android style >100M download (or at least they were last time I looked), but you usually get them next-day at least (instead of in a few months via the vendors)... I've run a Debian chroot on Cyanogenmod in the past. You can probably find something cheap with a reasonable spec in this lot: http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Devices#cmversions="13","13.0";; There is also a project to build an Android phone from hardware with open drivers too, but the name of it escapes me. Of course I would prefer to run straight Debian on the devices too, but if the N900 isn't for you, and neither is the amount of hacking required to get the upstream kernel running on your device, then perhaps these are a reasonable compromise. Tim.
Re: a Debian executable on Android
> If you ignore proprietaryness, I expect iOS devices are more secure > than Debian, given their secure enclave stuff. Debian doesn't yet have > support for Secure Boot. SecureBoot has very little to do with security. More specifically, it's mostly useful to provide "security against the end user". So, yes, iOS devices are indeed among the most "secure" in this sense: the Apple company is pretty secure against attempts by its clients to use their devices in ways which Apple does not condone. I personally resent this kind of security. Stefan
Re: a Debian executable on Android
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:02 PM, Andrew McGlashan wrote: > So, no point in that, it is still under Android. I want "bare" metal > Debian thanks or some other trusted Linux, perhaps a BSD, but outdated > Android is what I have to settle for unless I spring for a Google sold > device and prices / availability in AU aren't as good as they are in the US. Debian with an Android version of the Linux kernel is exactly as "bare metal" (not sure what you mean by that though) as Debian on your laptop or server, probably more so since laptops have SMM running on the CPU at the same time as the OS. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Re: a Debian executable on Android
On 7/04/2016 7:13 PM, Paul Wise wrote: > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 5:04 PM, Andrew McGlashan wrote: > >> Given the security [or lack thereof, in reality] of both iOS and >> Android, I would rather have Debian directly on a mobile. > > If you ignore proprietaryness, I expect iOS devices are more secure > than Debian, given their secure enclave stuff. Debian doesn't yet have > support for Secure Boot. No iOS was number one in the list of CVEs in 2015 with Mac OS X being number two. Adobe Flash Player number 3, other Adobe products 4 and 5. So, no, even with secure enclave, iOS is not as secure as it should be and often times Apple denies vulnerabilities until they have fixed them. > If you mean "only Debian" then you can get that on the N900 since it > has Linux mainline support. I don't know if anyone has tested Debian's > Linux kernel images on N900 though. The N900 hardware is too old; it sure was good for it's time though. > If you mean "vendor stuff plus Debian userland" then you can get that > on any Android-based mobile device where you can get root, here is an > example of doing that by modifying the initramfs (so I could switch > between Android and Debian by flashing the initramfs): No, Android has a bucket of holes too; mainly because the likes of Samsung can't be bothered updated less than very recent phones and Samsung has the lion's share of Android. So, no point in that, it is still under Android. I want "bare" metal Debian thanks or some other trusted Linux, perhaps a BSD, but outdated Android is what I have to settle for unless I spring for a Google sold device and prices / availability in AU aren't as good as they are in the US. > http://bonedaddy.net/pabs3/log/2012/12/03/debian-mobile/ > > Some more links: > > https://cascardo.eti.br/blog/GNU_on_Smartphones_part_II/ > https://wiki.debian.org/Mobile Nice links, thank you, but it still isn't bare metal. I wish Jolla had survived as a tablet option -- that may have encouraged me enough to try their phone. But, unfortunately, the Jolla tablet is no more :( Kind Regards AndrewM signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: a Debian executable on Android
On Wednesday 06 Apr 2016 8:53:33 PM pe...@easthope.ca wrote: > Hello ARM users, > > Suppose you have a software working in Debian which > is working on an ARM cpu. Is there an Android app > providing an environment where the given software > can work? Assuming no changes to this software of > course. /dev/fb0 suffices as display. X11 is not > required. > > Thanks,... Peter E. Unsubscribe me from this group please -- This email is sent from a computer running Mageia-Linux. Mageia is totally free to download, but much more secure than a system with a registry as each system has a unique root password not dependant on black hats not looking for a way in. David White of Falmouth, Cornwall
Re: a Debian executable on Android
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 5:04 PM, Andrew McGlashan wrote: > Given the security [or lack thereof, in reality] of both iOS and > Android, I would rather have Debian directly on a mobile. If you ignore proprietaryness, I expect iOS devices are more secure than Debian, given their secure enclave stuff. Debian doesn't yet have support for Secure Boot. If you mean "only Debian" then you can get that on the N900 since it has Linux mainline support. I don't know if anyone has tested Debian's Linux kernel images on N900 though. If you mean "vendor stuff plus Debian userland" then you can get that on any Android-based mobile device where you can get root, here is an example of doing that by modifying the initramfs (so I could switch between Android and Debian by flashing the initramfs): http://bonedaddy.net/pabs3/log/2012/12/03/debian-mobile/ Some more links: https://cascardo.eti.br/blog/GNU_on_Smartphones_part_II/ https://wiki.debian.org/Mobile -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Re: a Debian executable on Android
On 7/04/2016 3:07 PM, Paul Wise wrote: > There are several ways to have Debian under Android: > > https://wiki.debian.org/ChrootOnAndroid Given the security [or lack thereof, in reality] of both iOS and Android, I would rather have Debian directly on a mobile. :( A. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: a Debian executable on Android
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Peter E. wrote: > Suppose you have a software working in Debian which > is working on an ARM cpu. Is there an Android app > providing an environment where the given software > can work? Assuming no changes to this software of > course. /dev/fb0 suffices as display. X11 is not > required. There are several ways to have Debian under Android: https://wiki.debian.org/ChrootOnAndroid -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
