Bug#773763: task-mate-desktop: Should install libreoffice-gnome

2014-12-26 Thread Samuel Thibault
Samuel Thibault, le Wed 24 Dec 2014 17:49:08 +0100, a écrit :
 This would probably need to be added to other desktop tasks too:
 task-lxde-desktop, task-xfce-desktop, task-cinnamon-desktop,

I forgot to mention the additional sizes for those:

LXDE: 350KiB
XFCE: 350KiB
Cinnamon: it's actually already getting installed.

Samuel


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Bug#773763: task-mate-desktop: Should install libreoffice-gnome

2014-12-24 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello,

Jean-Philippe MENGUAL, le Tue 23 Dec 2014 01:06:20 +0100, a écrit :
* What was the outcome of this action?
 
 LibreOffice was announced inaccessible by Orca.

 The solution: add libreoffice-gnome to the automatically installed packages 
 with
 task-mate-desktop.

A quick measurement from a fresh MATE installation gives only 4MiB
additional installed size.

This would probably need to be added to other desktop tasks too:
task-lxde-desktop, task-xfce-desktop, task-cinnamon-desktop,
task-mate-desktop (but not task-kde-desktop, since the KDE desktop is
not accessible with Orca yet).

Samuel


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Re: Bug#771607: Re : Re: Re : Re: Bug#771607: unblock: brltty/5.2~20141018-2

2014-12-14 Thread Samuel Thibault
Jonathan Wiltshire, le Fri 12 Dec 2014 21:37:10 +, a écrit :
 This discussion seems to have run into the sand.

Indeed.

 Is there any news?

Well, nothing more than what was said, actually, to sum it up:

- MATE is a bit more accessible than Gnome with the Orca screen reader
- MATE however doesn't have screen magnification,
- gnome does have integrated magnification, even if not very good.

So it seems that gnome is a good default, in that it has decent support
for a wide range of disabilities.  MATE would however be preferrable
for people who need to use the Orca screen reader, thus the proposal to
automatically tune the default desktop from d-i itself.

Samuel


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Re: vt2-6 still not available with base system

2014-12-12 Thread Samuel Thibault
Simon McVittie, le Fri 12 Dec 2014 16:18:13 +, a écrit :
 On 12/12/14 15:26, Michael Biebl wrote:
  Since apparently Conditions can't be used on targets, I came up with a
  slightly different idea, using a service, which triggers the start of
  getty on tty2-6 in absence of /usr/bin/dbus-daemon.
 
 Any reason not to prefer Wants=getty@tty2.service ...
 getty@tty6.service and ExecStart=/bin/true?
 
  The advantage of that static-getty.service compared to enabling getty on
  tty2-6 is, that we can easily drop that again in jessie+X once we have
  kdbus.
 
 I understand that advantage over Samuel's proposal, but if I was the
 systemd maintainer, I'd be very tempted to drop the Condition and run
 all six gettys unconditionally, preserving traditional functionality.

And fixing #760916 along the way.

Samuel


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Bug#772461: Update installation-guide for no separated /usr

2014-12-07 Thread Samuel Thibault
Baptiste Jammet, le Sun 07 Dec 2014 14:34:04 +0100, a écrit :
 I think that this will need some rewording in the installation manual.

Indeed, thanks!

Samuel


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Bug#771576: tasksel: tasks=mate still also installs gnome

2014-12-07 Thread Samuel Thibault
Control: tags -1 + patch

Hello,

Here is a tested patch.

Samuel
commit ada61ef5b9fb3c89e415c824837883fee87625b0
Author: Samuel Thibault sthiba...@debian.org
Date:   Mon Dec 8 01:03:30 2014 +0100

When a desktop is preseeded, only enable that desktop.

diff --git a/debian/changelog b/debian/changelog
index 1abc6ed..cc59469 100644
--- a/debian/changelog
+++ b/debian/changelog
@@ -1,11 +1,15 @@
 tasksel (3.30) UNRELEASED; urgency=medium
 
+  [ Joey Hess ]
   * Remove pm-utils from laptop and desktop tasks. It was only added because
 hal needed it, hal doesn't exist anymore, and systemctl is used for
 command-line suspend/hibernate now.
   * Remove libgl1-mesa-dri from the desktop task list. xorg depends on it,
 so it does not need to be explicitly listed.
 
+  [ Samuel Thibault ]
+  * When a desktop is preseeded, only enable that desktop. Closes: #771576.
+
  -- Joey Hess jo...@debian.org  Thu, 30 Oct 2014 15:58:02 -0400
 
 tasksel (3.29) unstable; urgency=high
diff --git a/tests/default-desktop b/tests/default-desktop
index 10d4a44..2b6a3b8 100755
--- a/tests/default-desktop
+++ b/tests/default-desktop
@@ -27,8 +27,10 @@ check_desktop_wanted() {
fi
 }
 
-if db_get tasksel/desktop  echo $RET | grep -q $DESKTOPNAME; then
-   check_desktop_wanted
+if db_get tasksel/desktop; then
+   if echo $RET | grep -q $DESKTOPNAME; then
+   check_desktop_wanted
+   fi
 else
if [ $DESKTOPNAME = $(default_desktop_for_arch $(dpkg 
--print-architecture)) ]; then
check_desktop_wanted


Re: vt2-6 still not available with base system

2014-12-07 Thread Samuel Thibault
Michael Biebl, le Thu 04 Dec 2014 00:10:57 +0100, a écrit :
 Am 03.12.2014 um 22:42 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
  Simon McVittie, le Sun 09 Nov 2014 20:43:36 +, a écrit :
  I'm very tempted to say systemd in Debian should just make these 5
  symlinks to preserve traditional Debian behaviour, at least for
  jessie. It doesn't really even need to run systemctl, it can just use
  ln -s or whatever. People who are so desperately short of memory that
  5 agetty instances are undesired can always disable them.
 
  If you want it to be clear that it's a Debian-specific thing that's
  pulling them in, maybe it would be better to add a new
  debian-gettys.target or debian-gettys.service that Wants them, and make
  it WantedBy an appropriate target?
  
  That looks like the simplest way for now.
 
 Does anyone want to look into this and provide a patch for such a
 static gettys target. Maybe we could even make it Conditional on
 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon not being installed.

I don't know how to do that, here is a more trivial way: simply doing
the same as for tty1.  I can confirm that this also fixes bug #760916.

Samuel
--- debian/changelog.original   2014-12-08 00:47:40.570640003 +0100
+++ debian/changelog2014-12-08 00:48:27.972968147 +0100
@@ -1,3 +1,9 @@
+systemd (215-9) UNRELEASED; urgency=medium
+
+  * Always enable vt2-6. (Closes: #760916)
+
+ -- Samuel Thibault sthiba...@debian.org  Mon, 08 Dec 2014 00:47:17 +0100
+
 systemd (215-8) unstable; urgency=medium
 
   [ Didier Roche ]
--- debian/systemd.postinst.original2014-12-05 10:01:35.0 +0100
+++ debian/systemd.postinst 2014-12-08 00:49:31.440085305 +0100
@@ -123,6 +123,15 @@
 _systemctl try-restart systemd-timesyncd.service || true
 fi
 
+# Now enable all gettys by default
+if dpkg --compare-versions $2 lt 215-9; then
+systemctl enable getty@tty2.service || true
+systemctl enable getty@tty3.service || true
+systemctl enable getty@tty4.service || true
+systemctl enable getty@tty5.service || true
+systemctl enable getty@tty6.service || true
+fi
+
 # Enable getty and remote-fs.target by default on new installs, and on
 # upgrades from old systemd versions (where the symlinks included as deb
 # content, and will thus have been removed by dpkg during the upgrade).
--- debian/systemd.preinst.original 2014-12-05 10:01:35.0 +0100
+++ debian/systemd.preinst  2014-12-08 00:46:28.091353385 +0100
@@ -40,6 +40,11 @@
 save_is_enabled console-shell.service
 save_is_enabled debug-shell.service
 save_is_enabled getty@tty1.service
+save_is_enabled getty@tty2.service
+save_is_enabled getty@tty3.service
+save_is_enabled getty@tty4.service
+save_is_enabled getty@tty5.service
+save_is_enabled getty@tty6.service
 save_is_enabled remote-fs.target
 save_is_enabled rescue.target
 save_is_enabled systemd-readahead-collect.service


Re: vt2-6 still not available with base system

2014-12-03 Thread Samuel Thibault
Simon McVittie, le Sun 09 Nov 2014 20:43:36 +, a écrit :
 I'm very tempted to say systemd in Debian should just make these 5
 symlinks to preserve traditional Debian behaviour, at least for
 jessie. It doesn't really even need to run systemctl, it can just use
 ln -s or whatever. People who are so desperately short of memory that
 5 agetty instances are undesired can always disable them.
 
 If you want it to be clear that it's a Debian-specific thing that's
 pulling them in, maybe it would be better to add a new
 debian-gettys.target or debian-gettys.service that Wants them, and make
 it WantedBy an appropriate target?

That looks like the simplest way for now.

 A generator could be conditional on the absence of dbus.service, or
 some such, but then again so could a debian-gettys.service with
 ConditionPathExists=!/lib/systemd/system/dbus.service.

Indeed.  I'd however tend to just always start them, thus fixing along
the way bug #760916 which is a pain for blind people, and for which I
don't even know where to start debugging.

Samuel


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Bug#768657: [Pkg-sysvinit-devel] Bug#768657: sysvinit: Please provide xen virtual console in inittab

2014-12-03 Thread Samuel Thibault
I'm not sure to understand what the original bug report is about
precisely.  AIUI, it is about the following scenario:

1) install debian in a Xen domU, ending up with systemd installed by
default
2) install sysvinit-core to switch back to sysvinit boot
3) end up having to fix this and that to get sysvinit work properly

I am not very surprised that it does not work.  The various tuning that
d-i does usually only work on what gets installed during d-i, not on
what gets installed later on.  That's particularly the case for software
which doesn't provide nice hooks for d-i to use them.

I'm just wondering one thing: between steps 1) and 2), does the
installed system (using systemd) properly have a login banner on hvc0?
If not, then it's indeed a problem, but not related with sysvinit
and inittab. In the current logic, some more code should be added to
finish-install's 90console script to handle the systemd case.  I don't
have a Xen system offhand to easily test that.

Cyril Brulebois, le Mon 10 Nov 2014 20:51:28 +0100, a écrit :
 Would it make any sense to have $something created by d-i, consumed by
 both systemd and sysvinit to make sure consoles are available?

It would make sense, but I'm not sure we can manage to write something
that both sysvinit and systemd can understand easily. include support
could be added to sysvinit, and /etc/inittab made to include the
d-i-generate bits, but it'd still be in inittab format, which AIUI
systemd wouldn't grok. So it would be something else, but then we would
have to make sysvinit aware of what a serial login is, which it has
never been made to, for flexibility reasons.

 Of course if I'm conflating issues that are orthogonal, please say so
 and we'll track both issues separately.

I actually haven't quoted the vt2-6 issue here because I don't think it
is related with d-i.

Samuel


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Bug#769407: Should set up Grub for serial and console

2014-12-03 Thread Samuel Thibault
Control: reassign -1 grub-installer

Geert Stappers, le Wed 03 Dec 2014 22:35:21 +0100, a écrit :
 On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 02:19:50PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
  Following an install with
  
auto console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8
  
  on the command line and using yesterday's amd64 daily jessie
  installer, the /etc/default/grub file had GRUB_TERMINAL=serial
  enabled. Please set that to
  
GRUB_TERMINAL=console serial
  
  to allow Grub to display on both, which it has supported for
  a while.
 
 To which package should this bugreport be assigned?

This part is handled by grub-installer, reassigning.

Samuel


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Bug#769406: Serial console not set up after serial install

2014-12-03 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello,

Geert Stappers, le Wed 03 Dec 2014 22:30:39 +0100, a écrit :
 Jan  1 21:50:07 kernel: [0.00] Command line: 
 BOOT_IMAGE=http://alpaca.gpm.stappers.nl/d-i/jessie/amd64/linux vga=normal 
 console=ttyS0,19200,n8 -- 
 initrd=http://alpaca.gpm.stappers.nl/d-i/jessie/amd64/initrd.gz 

Options to be propagated to the installed kernel have to be put after
--.  With the recent kernel change which lead to #764675, it's actually
now ---, so it'd be something like

 vga=normal initrd=http://alpaca.gpm.stappers.nl/d-i/jessie/amd64/initrd.gz 
 --- console=ttyS0,19200,n8 

How were this console= parameter added precisely?

I have added to the manual's Boot Parameters section an explicit mention
of this.

Samuel


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Bug#768657: [Pkg-sysvinit-devel] Bug#768657: sysvinit: Please provide xen virtual console in inittab

2014-12-03 Thread Samuel Thibault
Gedalya, le Wed 03 Dec 2014 17:22:41 -0500, a écrit :
 
 On 12/03/2014 05:12 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote:
 I'm not sure to understand what the original bug report is about
 precisely.  AIUI, it is about the following scenario:
 
 1) install debian in a Xen domU, ending up with systemd installed by
 default
 2) install sysvinit-core to switch back to sysvinit boot
 3) end up having to fix this and that to get sysvinit work properly
 this and that being very specifically one line added to inittab:
 co:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty hvc0 9600 linux
 Given the above scenario this needs to be done by hand.
 As I understand the code, currently d-i would still add that for the user,
 if /etc/inittab existed, and it doesn't because sysvinit-core is not
 installed.

Well, yes.  But this does not seem surprising to me: again, usually d-i
tunes packages which it has installed.  It doesn't tune much what could
potentially get installed later on.  And it should for sure not install
a complete /etc/inittab, that would only confuse people who were used to
configure things there.

 I'm just wondering one thing: between steps 1) and 2), does the
 installed system (using systemd) properly have a login banner on hvc0?
 It does. The problem occurs only after installing sysvinit-core. If the user
 really depends on a console then they would need to add this line before
 rebooting, and we can expect that they might not know to do so.

Well, changing the init system is not something trivial indeed.

What is new here is that sysvinit-core can now get initially installed
not from d-i.  And thus the tuning usually done by d-i can't work.

Also, we probably have to think about ping-pong scenarii: install
sysvinit-core, then switch back to systemd, purge sysvinit-core, and
drop /etc/inittab. Change one's mind again, reinstall sysvinit-core.
We still want to have a console on /dev/hvc0.  We're far from d-i, so
it'd rather be sysvinit-core which does the job of adding the console to
inittab.

Can't some of the logic in finish-install's 90console simply moved to
sysvinit-core's postinst?

Samuel


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Re: Bug#771607: unblock: brltty/5.2~20141018-2

2014-12-01 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Mon 01 Dec 2014 09:41:20 +0100, a écrit :
  As it seems that Jessie will install the gnome desktop by default, I
  would like to upload the attached changes.  The idea is that the most
  accessible desktop we have in Debian is MATE
 
 Why are we learning about this only now?

??
This has been written on 
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDesktop/Requalification/Jessie
for a long time already.

 I only stumbled upon your mail because I'm subscribed to -accessibility@,
 adding -boot@ to Cc…

Hum... I had put
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-boot@lists.debian.org
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-accessibil...@lists.debian.org

I then guess bts only keep the last one.

Samuel


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Re: Bug#771607: unblock: brltty/5.2~20141018-2

2014-12-01 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello,

Cyril Brulebois, le Mon 01 Dec 2014 10:39:17 +0100, a écrit :
 With the tasksel/3.25 upload and the default switch back to gnome, it
 looked to me that the accessibility side was taken care of.

What do you mean by taken care of?

If you mean fixing them, the few accessibility issues that gnome 3.14
aren't easy to fix, and thus most probably won't be fixed for Jessie.

If you mean taking accessibility into account when chosing the default
desktop, well I thought it was done according to the version of the
chart at the time:
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDesktop/Requalification/Jessie?action=recallrev=28
which clearly says that MATE is the best choice for accessibility, by a
short preference over gnome, and that gnome was preferred over MATE for
some other reason. Joey?

Note that I'm not saying gnome is very bad for accessibility: as the
chart says it's fine enough.  But for the best accessible usability,
MATE is preferrable, thus the idea of tuning the default for the case of
braille  speech.

Also note that it doesn't mean that accessibility shouldn't be taken
into account for the default desktop.  There is still the common case of
a computer installed before knowing that a disabled person will want to
use it.

 Since the wiki page seems to have been updated to include results from
 [1],

A long time ago, yes.

 and since [1] didn't exactly call for mate as the default desktop,

??

“MATE, not in this benchmarking, is the best solution.”

“I'm sure MATE is the ideal solution now, given it's accessible for a
lot of disabilities and also for sight people”

It seemed clear to me, except that since at the time the poll was done
MATE was actually not among the choices in the evaluation chart (and not
even a task), Jean-Philippe made it a special case.

 I'm still surprised this topic is only being brought up now. There
 were almost 2-3 months to do so.

Well, I don't remember an announcement about it.  I didn't know that
the choice had been actually really settled, particularly since there
were edits on the wiki page since them.  I was however seeing the
distribution getting more and more frozen, and thus the current gnome
default getting more and more settled.

  1. https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2014/09/msg8.html
 
 (That also says compiz works inside MATE, but I only see compiz in
 oldstable, so…)

Indeed, since we didn't manage to package compiz in time for Jessie,
AIUI MATE doesn't have a magnifier.  AIUI we still prefer MATE for the
braille case at least.  Jean-Philippe ?

Samuel


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Re: Bug#771607: unblock: brltty/5.2~20141018-2

2014-12-01 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Mon 01 Dec 2014 11:36:06 +0100, a écrit :
  It seemed clear to me, except that since at the time the poll was done
  MATE was actually not among the choices in the evaluation chart (and not
  even a task), Jean-Philippe made it a special case.
 
 !!
 
 “[…] I think Debian won't choose it. So, alternatively, I suggest gnome […]”

At the time, MATE wasn't even a task, so that's why Jean-Philippe said
he believed Debian would of course not choose it as a default.

 which seems to enact that gnome is fine enough.

Yes, again, gnome *is* fine enough.  But can't we fine-tune the default
when we know for sure that the user is using braille?  Notably since it
seems we'd better go with gnome with its integrated magnifier for people
with low vision, and we'd better go with MATE for people using braille?

Samuel


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Re: Bug#771607: unblock: brltty/5.2~20141018-2

2014-12-01 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Mon 01 Dec 2014 11:36:06 +0100, a écrit :
  Well, I don't remember an announcement about it.  I didn't know that
  the choice had been actually really settled,[...]
 
 Well, you could have asked;

Well, that's what I am doing.  I guess my timeout value was just too
large.

Samuel


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Re: Re : Re: Bug#771607: unblock: brltty/5.2~20141018-2

2014-12-01 Thread Samuel Thibault
MENGUAL Jean-Philippe, le Mon 01 Dec 2014 12:06:35 +0100, a écrit :
 and MATE is much more suit when we try to have a universal desktop with 
 braille, speech and magnifying, in particular due to its visual customization 
 capabilities, disappeared in gnome.

Mmm, but do we have magnification support in MATE?  AIUI we don't.

Samuel


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Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Bug#771607: unblock: brltty/5.2~20141018-2

2014-12-01 Thread Samuel Thibault
MENGUAL Jean-Philippe, le Mon 01 Dec 2014 13:14:07 +0100, a écrit :
 - Samuel Thibault sthiba...@debian.org a écrit :
  MENGUAL Jean-Philippe, le Mon 01 Dec 2014 12:06:35 +0100, a écrit :
   and MATE is much more suit when we try to have a universal desktop with 
   braille, speech and magnifying, in particular due to its visual 
   customization capabilities, disappeared in gnome.
  
  Mmm, but do we have magnification support in MATE?  AIUI we don't.
 
 At least there are much themes, large customizations (font, characters, 
 colours of various items such as windows edges, areas, etc).

It gives lesser choices in some areas, but isn't the lack of
magnification support a problem?

I mean AIUI gnome seems like a good default since it has support for a
large range of accessibility features, even if it's not as good at some
of them as MATE can be.  MATE, on the other hand, is notably missing
magnification, which I think will be a real concern for quite a few
people (as in: not usable at all), and AIUI MATE customizations will not
be enough to deal with that.

 Moreover, compiz can be easily implemented (Luca is doing).

Please remember that we are talking about Jessie, not a downstream of
Jessie.

Samuel


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Bug#771576: tasksel: tasks=mate still also installs gnome

2014-11-30 Thread Samuel Thibault
Package: tasksel
Version: 3.29
Severity: important

Hello,

I wanted to make brltty and speakup auto-preseed tasks=mate so as to
automatically install the most accessible desktop by default, but while
doing so indeed enables installation of the mate desktop, the gnome
desktop also gets installed: when using tasks=mate, both gnome and mate
choices get ticked by default, and then the user session will default to
the (lesser accessible) gnome desktop.

Apparently this comes from the logic in the default-desktop script:

if db_get tasksel/desktop  echo $RET | grep -q $DESKTOPNAME; then
check_desktop_wanted
else
if [ $DESKTOPNAME = $(default_desktop_for_arch $(dpkg 
--print-architecture)) ]; then
check_desktop_wanted
fi
fi

AIUI, this will make the gnome case skip the then part (since grep
will fail), and since it's the default desktop for the amd64 arch,
check_desktop_wanted will get called, and thus gnome always get ticked.
Shouldn't it be rather the following?  At least in my tests it works as
I would expect: only tick the preseeded desktop choice.

if db_get tasksel/desktop ; then
if echo $RET | grep -q $DESKTOPNAME; then
check_desktop_wanted
fi
else
if [ $DESKTOPNAME = $(default_desktop_for_arch $(dpkg 
--print-architecture)) ]; then
check_desktop_wanted
fi
fi

With some preseeding, the mate case will enter the first then and the
second then, and thus get ticked, while the gnome case will enter the
first then, but not the second then. Without preseeding, all cases
will enter the first else, and then only the default desktop for the
arch will enter the corresponding then.

Samuel

-- System Information:
Debian Release: jessie/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (990, 'testing'), (500, 'buildd-unstable'), (500, 'unstable'), 
(500, 'stable'), (500, 'oldstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Foreign Architectures: i386

Kernel: Linux 3.17.0 (SMP w/8 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash

Versions of packages tasksel depends on:
ii  apt 1.0.9.3
ii  cdebconf [debconf-2.0]  0.192
ii  debconf [debconf-2.0]   1.5.53
ii  liblocale-gettext-perl  1.05-8+b1
ii  perl-base   5.20.1-3
ii  tasksel-data3.29

tasksel recommends no packages.

tasksel suggests no packages.

-- debconf information excluded


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Bug#769616: tasksel: fails to preseed desktop on kfreebsd, hurd

2014-11-30 Thread Samuel Thibault
Samuel Thibault, le Sat 22 Nov 2014 23:19:24 +0100, a écrit :
 I however fail to preseed this and still let the user choose.

Ok, forget what I wrote: I made various mistakes.

tasksel tasksel/desktop multiselect mate

does work, except bug #771576.

Samuel


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Re: base system size

2014-11-29 Thread Samuel Thibault
Santiago Vila, le Sat 29 Nov 2014 10:49:43 +0100, a écrit :
 Maybe wget is too bloated for the base system?

Having a wget available has been quite convenient to me several times
to easily transfer a file. We could however in the future consider
packaging another, lightweight wget.

 OTOH, 277 to 360 is just a 30% increase, in approximately two years,
 which is probably expected following Moore's law...

Yes, the overall installation size (with generated files etc.) still
largely fit in a 1GiB disk.

Samuel


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Re: d-i installation manual bits for arm64 and ppc64el

2014-11-29 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello,

I can only repeat what I have posted a couple of months ago: we do
need documentation in the manual about the arm64 and ppc64el new
architectures.

Samuel Thibault, le Tue 16 Sep 2014 14:11:01 +0200, a écrit :
 One of the things that needs to get added for arm64 and ppc64el is the
 installation manual bits. For now I have just commited the basics, so
 you can
 
 $ debcheckout installation-guide
 $ cd installation-guide/build
 $ ./buildone arm64 en pdf
 $ ./buildone ppc64el en pdf
 
 to get it built. What porters need to do is to add information specific
 to their arch.
 
 For arm64
 =
 
 For now, arm64 is just like armel and armhf, I guess they won't differ
 so much. At least these files will however probably have to be updated
 to document some board-specific details:
 
 - en/hardware/supported/arm.xml
 - en/hardware/hardware-supported.xml
 - en/install-methods/download/arm.xml
 - en/preparing/bios-setup/arm.xml
 - en/boot-installer/arm.xml
 - en/using-d-i/modules/arm/flash-kernel-installer.xml
 
 It's probably useful to also look around at paragraphs marked with
 arch=arm
 
 For ppc64el
 ===
 
 For now, ppc64el is just like powerpc, I guess it may be useful to
 distinguish them so as to drop the documentation for elder hardware?
 en/hardware/hardware-supported.xml will have to be updated. At least
 these files will probably have to be updated:
 
 - en/hardware/supported/powerpc.xml
 - en/hardware/hardware-supported.xml
 - en/install-methods/floppy/powerpc.xml
 - en/install-methods/usb-setup/powerpc.xml
 - en/preparing/bios-setup/powerpc.xml
 - en/boot-installer/powerpc.xml
 - en/using-d-i/modules/powerpc/yaboot-installer.xml
 - en/using-d-i/modules/powerpc/quik-installer.xml
 
 It's probably useful to also look around at paragraphs marked with
 arch=ppc64el
 
 Samuel


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base system size

2014-11-28 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello,

Now that perl is out of the base system again, I've had a look at the
figures of a base system install. We're ~80Mib bigger, from 277MiB to
360MiB:

- aptitude is not installed by default any more - -18MiB
- grub got 12MiB bigger.
- wget now depends on libicu52, 27MiB.
- linux-image got 37MiB bigger
- systemd takes about 12MiB more than sysvinit
- udev got 5MiB bigger.
- util-linux got 1.3MiB bigger, and added 5MiB locale data
- various bloat and optimizations (bash got 1MiB bigger for instance)

Samuel


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Re: Bug#770525: tasksel: Task selection menu does not have Go Back button

2014-11-22 Thread Samuel Thibault
Control: reassign -1 tasksel
Control: retitle -1 tasksel: Task selection menu does not have Go Back button

Samuel Thibault, le Sat 22 Nov 2014 02:43:54 +0100, a écrit :
 Samuel Thibault, le Sat 22 Nov 2014 02:34:40 +0100, a écrit :
  Package: tasksel
 
 Oops, sorry, I'm just realizing that in d-i it's called pkgsel.

Mmm, but it's really tasksel which is running, reassigning back to
tasksel.

Samuel


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Bug#769616: tasksel: fails to preseed desktop on kfreebsd, hurd

2014-11-22 Thread Samuel Thibault
Samuel Thibault, le Sat 22 Nov 2014 01:57:41 +0100, a écrit :
 Steven Chamberlain, le Sat 15 Nov 2014 02:20:53 +, a écrit :
  It was seen on kfreebsd and hurd that preseeding with:
tasksel tasksel/first multiselect standard, desktop
tasksel tasksel/desktop multiselect xfce
  no longer works, a regressions since wheezy;  no desktop gets installed:
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-hurd/2014/11/msg00074.html
 
 Indeed, it should now be simply:
 
 tasksel tasksel/first multiselect standard, xfce-desktop

I however fail to preseed this and still let the user choose.  We'd need
this for accessibility, to enable MATE by default when braille or speech
was used.  I have tried the following:

debconf-set-selections mate-preseed.cfg

where mate-pressed.cfg contains:

tasksel tasksel/first multiselect standard, mate-desktop, print-server
tasksel tasksel/first seen false
tasksel tasksel/tasks multiselect standard, mate-desktop, print-server
tasksel tasksel/tasks seen false
tasksel tasksel/desktop mate
tasksel tasksel/desktop seen false

After that, debconf-get tasksel/first etc. return the expected values.
But when arriving on the task choices, gnome is still the default... and
debconf-get tasksel/first etc. have become empty.  I guess I am missing
something?

Samuel


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Bug#769616: tasksel: fails to preseed desktop on kfreebsd, hurd

2014-11-21 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello,

Steven Chamberlain, le Sat 15 Nov 2014 02:20:53 +, a écrit :
 It was seen on kfreebsd and hurd that preseeding with:
   tasksel tasksel/first multiselect standard, desktop
   tasksel tasksel/desktop multiselect xfce
 no longer works, a regressions since wheezy;  no desktop gets installed:
 https://lists.debian.org/debian-hurd/2014/11/msg00074.html

Indeed, it should now be simply:

tasksel tasksel/first multiselect standard, xfce-desktop

I have already pushed a patch to Holger to fix it in jenkins.

Samuel


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Bug#770525: tasksel: Task selection menu does not have Go Back button

2014-11-21 Thread Samuel Thibault
Package: tasksel
Version: 3.29
Severity: normal

Hello,

The Software selection d-i dialog does not have a Go Back button any
more, which is not convenient when one wants to tinker a bit debconf
before starting the long installing tasks step.

Samuel

-- System Information:
Debian Release: jessie/sid
  APT prefers buildd-unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'buildd-unstable'), (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'testing'), 
(500, 'stable'), (500, 'oldstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Foreign Architectures: i386

Kernel: Linux 3.17.0 (SMP w/8 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash

Versions of packages tasksel depends on:
ii  apt 1.0.9.3
ii  cdebconf [debconf-2.0]  0.192
ii  debconf [debconf-2.0]   1.5.53
ii  liblocale-gettext-perl  1.05-8+b1
ii  perl-base   5.20.1-2
ii  tasksel-data3.29

tasksel recommends no packages.

tasksel suggests no packages.

-- debconf information excluded

-- 
Samuel
...
rv_ et Ctrl alt F2 pour aller sous console
rv_ mais c koi pour passer d'un bureau a un autre !
rv_ au fait c koi le raccourci pour passer d'un bureau a un autre 'question 
stupide
cycyx ça dépend du window manager et de ta conf
Firebird ce qui fonctionne toujours c'est CTRL-ALT-BCKSP
-:- SignOff rv_: #linuxfr (Read error: EOF from client)
-:- rv_ [~rv@217.11.166.169] has joined #linuxfr
rv_ Firebird: MEURT...


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Re: Bug#770525: pkgsel: Task selection menu does not have Go Back button

2014-11-21 Thread Samuel Thibault
Control: reassign -1 pkgsel
Control: retitle -1 pkgsel: Task selection menu does not have Go Back button

Samuel Thibault, le Sat 22 Nov 2014 02:34:40 +0100, a écrit :
 Package: tasksel

Oops, sorry, I'm just realizing that in d-i it's called pkgsel.

Samuel


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Re: tasksel desktop preseed issues (was: Re: Failure: g-i-installation_debian_sid_daily_hurd_lxde/71)

2014-11-14 Thread Samuel Thibault
Steven Chamberlain, le Fri 14 Nov 2014 21:41:24 +, a écrit :
 Firstly could someone please tell me what display manager this is?
 https://jenkins.debian.net/view/g-i-installation/job/g-i-installation_debian_sid_daily_hurd_lxde/70/artifact/results//snapshot_008244.png

See the preseed file: we force the use of xdm, I guess because lightdm
doesn't work yet.

Samuel


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Bug#745262: console-setup: Caps lock doesn't take effect on øæå (Danish characters)

2014-11-09 Thread Samuel Thibault
Anton Zinoviev, le Sun 09 Nov 2014 17:29:53 +0200, a écrit :
 On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 12:47:26AM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
  Anton Zinoviev, le Wed 06 Aug 2014 20:39:02 +0300, a écrit :
   On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 10:35:23PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
Oops, indeed, it seems the version in Jessie does not properly defines
the ctrll layer for upper cases like it used to in Wheezy. See ckbcomp
dk:

keycode 39 = +U+00e6 +U+00c6 dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute +U+00e6 +U+00c6 dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute +U+00e6 +U+00c6 dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute +U+00e6 +U+00c6 dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute +U+00e6 +U+00c6 dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute +U+00e6 +U+00c6 dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute +U+00e6 +U+00c6 dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute +U+00e6 +U+00c6 dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute

It uses only +U+00e6 +U+00c6, while it should use +U+00c6 +U+00e6 for
ctrll layers.
   
   I am unable to reproduce this.  What locale do you use?  I've tested 
   with LC_ALL=C, LC_ALL=da_DK.utf8 and LC_ALL=da_DK.
  
  Well, whatever the locale, LC_ALL=C for instance, I get only +U+00e6
  +U+00c6, and never +U+00c6 +U+00e6.  I've tried both console-setup 1.102
  and 1.111.
 
 I just wanted to mention that I've never been able to reproduce this.  I 
 have tried this in clean install of jessie with Gnome, both i386 and amd64.

I don't have the issue any more currently on my Jessie system.  Andreas,
do you still have the issue?

Samuel


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Re: vt2-6 still not available with base system

2014-11-09 Thread Samuel Thibault
Michael Biebl, le Sun 09 Nov 2014 19:56:40 +0100, a écrit :
 Running
  for i in `seq 2 6` ; do systemctl enable getty@tty$i.service; done
 on a system without dbus, would statically enable a getty on vt2-6.

I know, but I don't think we want to make the user have to do that.

 So we could simply document this fact (in README.Debian, release notes etc).
 
 The alternative would be, to bump dbus to priority standard, so it's
 installed by default (on new installations).

It is already priority standard.  That is not enough to make it part of
the base system though.

 A third idea would be to have a generator, which creates the
 getty@tty$i.service symlinks in /run/systemd/system/getty.target.wants
 Implementing that in shell, would only take a couple of lines.
 
 We should be careful though, to add yet another generator.

Yes :/

Samuel


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vt2-6 still not available with base system

2014-11-08 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello,

I've just checked this morning with the latest netboot, when installing
just the base system with no task, dbus does not get installed, and thus
vt2-6 do not have a login banner because systemd-logind needs dbus for
that.

In 758111, systemd was made to recommend dbus so that it works on system
upgrade, and in 759293 dbus was made priority standard in the archive.

But this is not enough for making d-i install dbus on just a base
system.  Just to make sure we agree on this: do we want to install dbus
in a base system without the standard task?  It's not very big: 1MiB
installed files.  It is also getting more and more used by basic things
in the system.  And not getting vt2-6 working on a base system is a bit
ew.

Opinions?

Samuel


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Bug#767432: main-menu: please give a way to change the frontend

2014-10-30 Thread Samuel Thibault
Package: main-menu
Severity: normal
User: debian-accessibil...@lists.debian.org
Usertags: a11y

Hello,

Depending on the input and output accessibility helpers used by the
user, one frontend or the other will be more convenient, it would be
useful to be able to change the frontend during installation.

More specifically, a typical example is starting the installer with
the speech synthesizer (with thus enables the text frontend, way more
suited to speech synthesis), but only to start brltty by hand on VT2
with special options needed by the particular braille device to be used,
and then one would like to switch the frontend to newt, which is more
convenient with a braille device.

AIUI, it shouldn't be hard to do, it would be a matter of restarting
main-menu with the selected frontend. It could be a mere entry in the
main menu, similar to the change debconf priority.

Samuel

-- System Information:
Debian Release: jessie/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (990, 'testing'), (500, 'buildd-unstable'), (500, 'unstable'), 
(500, 'stable'), (500, 'oldstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Foreign Architectures: i386

Kernel: Linux 3.17.0 (SMP w/8 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash

-- 
Samuel
N  sl  -  display animations aimed to correct users who accidentally enter
Nsl instead of ls.


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Bug#766815: installation-reports: please omit quiet option

2014-10-26 Thread Samuel Thibault
lee, le Sun 26 Oct 2014 02:44:01 +0100, a écrit :
 I strongly recommend to change the installer to *not* use the quiet
 option.

Well, you can use the expert boot entry for this.

Samuel


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Bug#763695: console-setup is slowest part of boot, not fast as setupcon manpage tells us

2014-10-01 Thread Samuel Thibault
Julian Andres Klode, le Wed 01 Oct 2014 23:31:18 +0200, a écrit :
 console-setup requires 800ms during a boot.

That's odd, it shouldn't be taking so long, thanks to the caching in
/etc/console-setup/cached.kmap.gz.  You should probably check what is
happening there.

Samuel


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Re: brltty_5.0-3_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into unstable

2014-09-29 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Mon 29 Sep 2014 22:36:09 +0200, a écrit :
 [ Paul Gevers ]
 * Improved timestamp fix in man pages to be independent of locales and
   file timestamps (Closes: #708585)
   .
 [ Samuel Thibault ]
 * Team upload.
 * Append the d-i -inherited configure to the end of brltty.conf instead 
  of
   dropping it (which was thus losing the documentation for the user).
 * patches/90-zh-lang-fix.patch: Fix zh translation syntax.
 * brltty-udeb.prebaseconfig: Enable accessibility in XFCE, LXDE and MATE
   sessions too.
 * Bump Standards-Version to 3.9.6 (no changes).
 
 So having this for the upcoming D-I Jessie Beta 2 release would make
 sense. How confident are you with this upload (now built everywhere)?
 Should I push it to testing right now?

I'm very confident with the upload, it'd be good to have it for d-i B2.

Samuel


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Bug#763005: installation-guide-amd64: website for wheezy leads to jessie installation guide

2014-09-28 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello,

Ross Boylan, le Fri 26 Sep 2014 18:23:19 -0700, a écrit :
 On http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual I selected the
 link for amd64 pdf,
 http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/install.pdf.en.  When I
 view this it says that it is the installation guide for Debian 8,
 jessie.  See, e.g., the 2nd page.

When I saw this bug report, I checked the pdf, and it was indeed a jessie
manual.  Now that I have a look again, it's back being wheezy, with
Last-Modified: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 02:57:36 GMT
so I guess somebody fixed it early this morning?

Samuel


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Bug#762426: setup.exe does work, it just pops up an extra browser window

2014-09-23 Thread Samuel Thibault
積丹尼 Dan Jacobson, le Mon 22 Sep 2014 15:09:16 +0800, a écrit :
 At least that's how it was when I used a 2010 installation disk I had
 lying around last week.

Which was 4 years ago, with at best Lenny. We are preparing Jessie, not
Lenny. Please re-test with Jessie.

Samuel


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Re: Bug#762024: installation-guide-amd64: Please add caution warning to instructions to create a usb bootable stick

2014-09-19 Thread Samuel Thibault
Control: tags -1 + pending

Ben Hutchings, le Thu 18 Sep 2014 16:58:56 +0100, a écrit :
 As people are still making this mistake, I would suggest explicitly
 saying The image must be written to the whole-disk device and not a
 partition, e.g. /dev/sdb and not /dev/sdb1.

I have commited it, thanks.

Samuel


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Re: Installation manual upload?

2014-09-16 Thread Samuel Thibault
Karsten Merker, le Sun 14 Sep 2014 20:37:12 +0200, a écrit :
 I currently have some small uncommitted changes to the english
 manual in my local working tree.  Is it ok to do further commits
 for now or should I postpone them until after the package has
 been uploaded?

It's now uploaded, you can feel free to commit.

Samuel


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d-i installation manual bits for arm64 and ppc64el

2014-09-16 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello,

One of the things that needs to get added for arm64 and ppc64el is the
installation manual bits. For now I have just commited the basics, so
you can

$ debcheckout installation-guide
$ cd installation-guide/build
$ ./buildone arm64 en pdf
$ ./buildone ppc64el en pdf

to get it built. What porters need to do is to add information specific
to their arch.

For arm64
=

For now, arm64 is just like armel and armhf, I guess they won't differ
so much. At least these files will however probably have to be updated
to document some board-specific details:

- en/hardware/supported/arm.xml
- en/hardware/hardware-supported.xml
- en/install-methods/download/arm.xml
- en/preparing/bios-setup/arm.xml
- en/boot-installer/arm.xml
- en/using-d-i/modules/arm/flash-kernel-installer.xml

It's probably useful to also look around at paragraphs marked with
arch=arm

For ppc64el
===

For now, ppc64el is just like powerpc, I guess it may be useful to
distinguish them so as to drop the documentation for elder hardware?
en/hardware/hardware-supported.xml will have to be updated. At least
these files will probably have to be updated:

- en/hardware/supported/powerpc.xml
- en/hardware/hardware-supported.xml
- en/install-methods/floppy/powerpc.xml
- en/install-methods/usb-setup/powerpc.xml
- en/preparing/bios-setup/powerpc.xml
- en/boot-installer/powerpc.xml
- en/using-d-i/modules/powerpc/yaboot-installer.xml
- en/using-d-i/modules/powerpc/quik-installer.xml

It's probably useful to also look around at paragraphs marked with
arch=ppc64el

Samuel


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Re: Installation manual upload?

2014-09-15 Thread Samuel Thibault
Karsten Merker, le Sun 14 Sep 2014 20:37:12 +0200, a écrit :
 On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 07:13:33PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
  last manual upload was 20131009 which is a while ago. Since we're
  closing in for a Jessie Beta 2 release, it'd be nice to have current svn
  uploaded soon. I'm not sure whether some translations are pending though.
 
 I currently have some small uncommitted changes to the english
 manual in my local working tree.  Is it ok to do further commits
 for now or should I postpone them until after the package has
 been uploaded?

If the changes are indeed small, it's probably better for non-english
people to have the old, but translated, documentation, rather than
having the new but untranslated documentation.

Samuel


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Re: Installation manual upload?

2014-09-15 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Sun 14 Sep 2014 19:13:33 +0200, a écrit :
 last manual upload was 20131009 which is a while ago. Since we're
 closing in for a Jessie Beta 2 release, it'd be nice to have current svn
 uploaded soon. I'm not sure whether some translations are pending though.

Christian, what do you think?

Samuel


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Re: default desktop: availability on all arches

2014-09-10 Thread Samuel Thibault
Steven Chamberlain, le Wed 10 Sep 2014 11:56:58 +0100, a écrit :
 What happens otherwise if trying to start GNOME3 (or others)?
 * without 3D, with llvmpipe
 * without both
 
 Does it fall back gracefully to a fallback/flashback mode, and does that
 still work these days?  In this mode would it still meet the
 'accessibility' or other criteria already on the Wiki page?

Accessibility is independent from the actual rendering.

Samuel


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Bug#760992: debian-installer: i18n: doesn't load keyboard layout that was just set

2014-09-10 Thread Samuel Thibault
Control: reassign -1 debian-live

Tamás Tardos, le Wed 10 Sep 2014 00:03:44 +0200, a écrit :
 Hi and thanks for your quick responses.
 
 The exact ISOs are:
 debian-live-7.6.0-amd64-xfce-desktop.iso
 debian-live-7.6.0-amd64-kde-desktop+nonfree.iso
 
 With both of these I'm able to reproduce the bug by booting into the
 live system, selecting the installer launcher and running it. After I set
 my keymap, it remains English.
 
 However, I found out that this bug doesn't occur if I directly boot into the
 installation (either the graphical or the text-based) from the same disk.
 
 So if I select Live at boot time, I get only English keymap, but if I
 select Install, it sets my layout correctly.

Ah, this is a bug in debian-live then, not the installer. I have just
tried with an old debian-live-7.2-i386-lxde-desktop.iso image I had on
my harddisk, there was no bug there. Perhaps the difference is 7.2 vs
7.6, perhaps the difference is lxde vs xfce/kde.

Samuel


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Bug#760992: debian-installer: i18n: doesn't load keyboard layout that was just set

2014-09-09 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello,

Tardos Tamás, le Tue 09 Sep 2014 20:17:40 +0200, a écrit :
 My language is Hungarian (magyar). Although the installer asks for my
 keyboard layout, this choice only affects the final installed system: the
 installer doesn't instantly load the keymap as I would expect.

That is not expected indeed.

I have however tested it with debian-7.4-amd64-mini.iso and
debian-jessie-DI-b1-amd64-netinst.iso, in both cases I selected
the Hungarian language (Magyar), then Magyarorsźag, and magyar layout,
and in the next text field when I pressed the first keyboard row, I got
qwertz, so at least the keyboard layout changed. I don't know the
hungarian layout, so I can't tell whether it is right, but pressing keys
on the right of 9 brings ö, ü, ó, and with other keys I could type í, ú,
á, etc. so it seems like hungarian.

So, as KiBi said, please tell us which ISO image you used exactly,
otherwise it's unreproducible for us.

Samuel


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Bug#760778: [Pkg-xfce-devel] Bug#760778: xfce4-session: Please depend on gnome-orca

2014-09-08 Thread Samuel Thibault
Yves-Alexis Perez, le Mon 08 Sep 2014 10:37:34 +0200, a écrit :
 What I'm against is forcing stuff onto users which have exactly no need
 for it. With that kind of reasoning we would install the complete set of
 packages in every installed system “just in case”.

There is a big difference in the case of accessibility: the user needing
it can't use the computer *at all*.

 And again, I fail to see why this is about Xfce desktop. One can use GTK
 stuff in a KDE desktop where I guess GTK+ a11y would work. One could be
 blind and don't use a full DE but just a window manager.

Well, the window manager needs to be accessible too, otherwise it's
quite inconvenient, but at least that allows to access some applications
indeed.

 I fail to see why a11y would be important enough to force it to Xfce
 installations while not beeing important enough to force it to default
 installations.

Right, we can probably add it to task-desktop instead. Joey?

Samuel


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Re: Bug#760778: [Pkg-xfce-devel] Bug#760778: xfce4-session: Please depend on gnome-orca

2014-09-08 Thread Samuel Thibault
Michael Biebl, le Mon 08 Sep 2014 14:30:56 +0200, a écrit :
  I fail to see why a11y would be important enough to force it to Xfce
  installations while not beeing important enough to force it to default
  installations.
  
  Right, we can probably add it to task-desktop instead. Joey?
 
 I'm not sure if this is the right approach. Isn't there a risk that
 alternative desktop environments (MATE, KDE, Cinnamon, LXDE,you name it)
 use other components then gnome-orca to implement a11y?

There is extremely little probability that this happens. There is
already little manpower to implement the server part (which has to be
implemented anyway before thinking about writing the client part);
nobody will spend time on implementing another client than orca. ATM
there is no such thing, and there will not be any for Jessie.

Samuel


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Re: accessibility of jessie desktops

2014-09-07 Thread Samuel Thibault
Joey Hess, le Sat 06 Sep 2014 12:44:29 -0400, a écrit :
 When I select Enable assitive technologies in
 xfce4-accessability-settings, it claims that it will start the required
 applications for screen readers and magnifiers. But if it does, I can't
 tell.

It doesn't.

First, due to a bug in lightdm, see #760740

After that bug is fixed, xfce4-session indeed starts at-spi-bus-launcher
and at-spi2-registryd, but that's only the server part of the
accessibility stack. orca also needs to have been installed (currently
it is not), and be started.

Samuel


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Re: accessibility of jessie desktops

2014-09-07 Thread Samuel Thibault
Samuel Thibault, le Sun 07 Sep 2014 15:03:09 +0200, a écrit :
 After that bug is fixed, xfce4-session indeed starts at-spi-bus-launcher
 and at-spi2-registryd, but that's only the server part of the
 accessibility stack. orca also needs to have been installed (currently
 it is not), and be started.

Ah, but that is actually handled by the gnome-orca package itself. So
all xfce4-session needs to do is to depend on gnome-orca, just like
gnome does. orca will auto-start only if the gsettings for it is
enabled. There is just a missing change in orca for this to work with
XFCE, I'll handle that.

Samuel


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Re: [Pkg-xfce-devel] Bug#760778: xfce4-session: Please depend on gnome-orca

2014-09-07 Thread Samuel Thibault
Yves-Alexis Perez, le Sun 07 Sep 2014 21:06:43 +0200, a écrit :
  ATM, with a fresh XFCE installation, enabling Enable assitive
  technologies does not actually start the orca screen reader, because
  the screen reader does not get installed along the XFCE installation.
  XFCE should thus depend on the gnome-orca, just like gnome depends on
  gnome-orca for instance. I guess xfce4-session would be the natural
  choice for this dependency, thus assigning to this package.
  
  Note: for now, Orca will not actually start because of bugs 760777 and
  760740, but that's not a reason for not adding the dependency in XFCE
  already.
  
 Orca is in no way a dependency (neither a recommends, actually) of the
 Xfce desktop environment, so sorry, no.

Well, for a blind user, it *is*!...

Anyhow, what do you propose to fix the accessibility of XFCE? Adding the
dependency to task-xfce-desktop? (Cc-ed)

Samuel


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Re: [Pkg-xfce-devel] Bug#760778: xfce4-session: Please depend on gnome-orca

2014-09-07 Thread Samuel Thibault
Yves-Alexis Perez, le Sun 07 Sep 2014 21:15:19 +0200, a écrit :
 On dim., 2014-09-07 at 21:13 +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
  Well, for a blind user, it *is*!...
 
 Sure, but not everyone's blind.

And not everyone speaks all languages on earth, yet we install all
language files by default, which really eats a lot of disk by default,
just because we can't know when one will need it because a random user
happens to need it.  That is the same with accessibility.

 I sympathise with a11y, but forcing gnome-orca on everyone won't
 happen.

Well, that is actually precisely our goal: to have gnome-orca installed
on all systems, ready to be started in case one needs it.

There is this very simple scenario: you welcome a blind guest at home,
and he'd like to use the home computer. Currently, with XFCE, you'd
click on Enable assistive technologies, and unlog/relog. But nothing
happens, no speech. You then have to connect to the Internet (who knows
whether it works that day), look for why this is not working, eventually
understand that you need to install the gnome-orca package, install it,
etc. and at last it works.

Another typical scenario is a public library with computers: there is
very little hope that the user will manage to find out how to contact
the sysadmin to get gnome-orca installed (and there is very little hope
that the sysadmin will have already thought about installing it), so he
will just not be able to use the computer at all.

Yes, real accessibility means being available, ready to be enabled. Any
barrier is really a killing pain for disabled people.

  Anyhow, what do you propose to fix the accessibility of XFCE? Adding
  the
  dependency to task-xfce-desktop? (Cc-ed)
 
 That's exactly the same thing. Just create an a11y subtask or whatever,
 bringing everything needed?

That won't change the fact that we'll want to always install it by
default (thus at least via a Recommends)

Just to bring the figure in the discussion: from a base system,
installing task-xfce-desktop without Orca uses 1596MiB. Adding Orca
brings 1658MiB, so that's just a 3% increase.

Samuel


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Re: accessibility of jessie desktops

2014-09-07 Thread Samuel Thibault
Samuel Thibault, le Sun 07 Sep 2014 20:14:20 +0200, a écrit :
 Samuel Thibault, le Sun 07 Sep 2014 15:03:09 +0200, a écrit :
  After that bug is fixed, xfce4-session indeed starts at-spi-bus-launcher
  and at-spi2-registryd, but that's only the server part of the
  accessibility stack. orca also needs to have been installed (currently
  it is not), and be started.
 
 Ah, but that is actually handled by the gnome-orca package itself. So
 all xfce4-session needs to do is to depend on gnome-orca, just like
 gnome does. orca will auto-start only if the gsettings for it is
 enabled. There is just a missing change in orca for this to work with
 XFCE, I'll handle that.

This is Bug#760777 and Bug#760778.

Samuel


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Re: [Pkg-xfce-devel] Bug#760778: xfce4-session: Please depend on gnome-orca

2014-09-07 Thread Samuel Thibault
Control: reassign -1 task-xfce-desktop
Control: tags -1 - wontfix

Yves-Alexis Perez, le Sun 07 Sep 2014 22:23:34 +0200, a écrit :
 On dim., 2014-09-07 at 21:53 +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
  Yves-Alexis Perez, le Sun 07 Sep 2014 21:15:19 +0200, a écrit :
   On dim., 2014-09-07 at 21:13 +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
Well, for a blind user, it *is*!...
   
   Sure, but not everyone's blind.
  
  And not everyone speaks all languages on earth, yet we install all
  language files by default, which really eats a lot of disk by default,
  just because we can't know when one will need it because a random user
  happens to need it.  That is the same with accessibility.
 
 Last time I did an install, a debconf question was actually asking about
 the locale.

Sure, but it still installs mostly all translations.

   I sympathise with a11y, but forcing gnome-orca on everyone won't
   happen.
  
  Well, that is actually precisely our goal: to have gnome-orca installed
  on all systems, ready to be started in case one needs it.
 
 Then it's unrelated to Xfce, and you want to include that in the base
 system.

Not in the base system, since the base system doesn't have X. But in all
graphical tasks where it makes sense, yes (it doesn't make sense for KDE
yet for instance, since qt is still completely inaccessible).

 I'm sure you can find a lot of slightly convoluted scenarios. I'm sure
 we can find a lot of them for a lot of packages, actually.

Yes, and that's something that people can usually work around. Here,
they can't.

  Just to bring the figure in the discussion: from a base system,
  installing task-xfce-desktop without Orca uses 1596MiB. Adding Orca
  brings 1658MiB, so that's just a 3% increase.
 
 That's not just a question of installed size. A lot of people want to
 keep a somehow minimal system in term of disk, memory, CPU time, and
 which doesn't get in their way. And some actually chose Xfce *for* that.

I am here talking *only* about installed size, precisely.  I'm
not asking for always starting Orca.  I'm asking for making it
available, ready to be enabled, I'm not asking for it to be enabled by
default. That won't consume any memory or CPU time, just a few dozen
MiB more (which is roughly indistinguishable from the usual release+1
increase in installed size).

 In any case, the original bug was about adding dependency to
 xfce4-session, and the answer is no (and the same applies to the xfce
 task). If you want to add gnome-orca to the base system, I don't think
 it's the right place.

As said above, that can't fit the base system, only the graphical tasks,
thus task-xfce-desktop at best. Reassigning it there for now.

Samuel


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Re: accessibility of jessie desktops

2014-09-06 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello,

MENGUAL Jean-Philippe, le Sat 06 Sep 2014 00:25:05 +0200, a écrit :
 I don't know exactly what's expected (should 9e an]ier here?  on the wiki?
 etc)?

I have filled the wiki with a summary of your answer.

Samuel


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Re: accessibility of jessie desktops

2014-09-06 Thread Samuel Thibault
BTW, I would like to emphasize that it's very good news that tasksel
people care about accessibility for the default choices, that's really
good for getting mainstream accessibility!

Samuel


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Bug#759290: debian-installer: 'Automated install' does not delay the locale and keyboard questions

2014-08-26 Thread Samuel Thibault
Andreas B. Mundt, le Tue 26 Aug 2014 08:16:01 +0200, a écrit :
 Before, I was using the method B.2.5. Using a DHCP server to specify
 preconfiguration files described in [1].  Is there a reason not to
 delay the questions with that method?

Probably not, and then it's a bug indeed.

Samuel


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Bug#759290: debian-installer: 'Automated install' does not delay the locale and keyboard questions

2014-08-26 Thread Samuel Thibault
Control: tags -1 + pending

Hello,

Andreas B. Mundt, le Tue 26 Aug 2014 08:16:01 +0200, a écrit :
 Before, I was using the method B.2.5. Using a DHCP server to specify
 preconfiguration files described in [1].  Is there a reason not to
 delay the questions with that method?

This apparently takes back March 2010: locale  kbd selection was
disabled only on explicit URL on boot parameters. I've made it always
done whenever auto is enabled, as I don't see why we shouldn't do it.
Fixing fully-automated-from-dhcp seems more important to me than the
inconvenience of a qwerty layout for typing the URL if really none is
available.

Samuel


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Bug#759336: linux-i386 lowmem install: anna fails with ENOSPC

2014-08-26 Thread Samuel Thibault
Steven Chamberlain, le Tue 26 Aug 2014 13:48:53 +0100, a écrit :
 Using:
 http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/dists/testing/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
 
 wheezy install guide suggests a minimum of 80MB RAM to run d-i.  But
 even with 128MB RAM, not choosing any additional components, I saw this
 issue during anna:

These figures haven't been updated for Jessie yet indeed.

Samuel


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Bug#759336: linux-i386 lowmem install: anna fails with ENOSPC

2014-08-26 Thread Samuel Thibault
Steven Chamberlain, le Tue 26 Aug 2014 14:10:51 +0100, a écrit :
 I should be able to help with that, I'll already be testing lots of
 low-memory installs, in order to find a good size for the kfreebsd d-i
 ramdisks.

Well, the testing has to be done for each architecture, since that
change quite a bit depending on the arch.

Samuel


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Bug#759336: linux-i386 lowmem install: anna fails with ENOSPC

2014-08-26 Thread Samuel Thibault
Steven Chamberlain, le Tue 26 Aug 2014 14:10:51 +0100, a écrit :
 It's odd that there still seemed to be ~50% free memory when this
 problem happened, though.  Is there some maximum size that the
 linux-i386 root ramdisk can grow to?

There seems to be something odd somewhere indeed. Just trying to update
the lowmem value for amd64 brings me from 109MiB to 164MiB, that's a big
jump!

I guess the kernel somehow now has a heuristic to limit the rootfs size.
When using 163MiB, I hit a bug when lvm tries to start, and indeed / is
said to be full while free shows 44MiB free.

Samuel


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Bug#759336: linux-i386 lowmem install: anna fails with ENOSPC

2014-08-26 Thread Samuel Thibault
Samuel Thibault, le Tue 26 Aug 2014 15:46:25 +0200, a écrit :
 Steven Chamberlain, le Tue 26 Aug 2014 14:10:51 +0100, a écrit :
  It's odd that there still seemed to be ~50% free memory when this
  problem happened, though.  Is there some maximum size that the
  linux-i386 root ramdisk can grow to?
 
 There seems to be something odd somewhere indeed. Just trying to update
 the lowmem value for amd64 brings me from 109MiB to 164MiB, that's a big
 jump!
 
 I guess the kernel somehow now has a heuristic to limit the rootfs size.
 When using 163MiB, I hit a bug when lvm tries to start, and indeed / is
 said to be full while free shows 44MiB free.

In /proc/mounts, one can read for the rootfs on / a size= value, which
seems to be half the memory size. That's probably the culprit, perhaps
it can be worked around somehow for d-i at least.

Samuel


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Bug#759336: linux-i386 lowmem install: anna fails with ENOSPC

2014-08-26 Thread Samuel Thibault
Steven Chamberlain, le Tue 26 Aug 2014 14:48:30 +0100, a écrit :
 On 26/08/14 14:15, Samuel Thibault wrote:
  Steven Chamberlain, le Tue 26 Aug 2014 14:10:51 +0100, a écrit :
  I should be able to help with that, I'll already be testing lots of
  low-memory installs, in order to find a good size for the kfreebsd d-i
  ramdisks.
  
  Well, the testing has to be done for each architecture, since that
  change quite a bit depending on the arch.
 
 If we say in the install manual that a particular arch needs 80MiB RAM
 to run d-i, do you think we should have a Jenkins job that runs installs
 in a Qemu VM having exactly that amount?  So we know if/when that stops
 being the case?

That could be useful indeed.  I don't know how jenkins works exactly,
but it needs to really go through the dialog boxes (selection portuguese
as language, etc.)

Samuel


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Bug#759336: linux-i386 lowmem install: anna fails with ENOSPC

2014-08-26 Thread Samuel Thibault
Samuel Thibault, le Tue 26 Aug 2014 15:49:32 +0200, a écrit :
 In /proc/mounts, one can read for the rootfs on / a size= value, which
 seems to be half the memory size. That's probably the culprit, perhaps
 it can be worked around somehow for d-i at least.

Indeed:

static unsigned long shmem_default_max_blocks(void)
{
return totalram_pages / 2;
}

which probably makes sense for an installed system, but not for an
installer.  We can however do this early at boot:

mount / -o remount,size=$(( $(grep ^MemTotal: /proc/meminfo | { read x y z; 
echo $y; }) * 1024 )

notably before unpacking .udebs, S15lowmem would probably be a fine
place for this? (it notably already does the computation trick)

Samuel


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Re: Debian Installer Jessie Beta 1 release

2014-08-26 Thread Samuel Thibault
cstrobel, le Tue 26 Aug 2014 20:31:55 -0400, a écrit :
 Are you saying XFCE is the problem?

Yes.

 Is there going to be an updated installer you want me to test again,
 or what do you suggest to get ORCA working??

You can use a gnome image, such as
http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/jessie_di_beta_1/amd64/iso-cd/debian-jessie-DI-b1-amd64-gnome-CD-1.iso

Samuel


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Bug#712907: grub-installer: No longer installs automatically on a normal machine with one hard drive

2014-08-25 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Thu 20 Mar 2014 14:51:32 +0100, a écrit :
 Salvatore Bonaccorso car...@debian.org (2014-03-20):
  It looks bootdev could be preseeded[1], at least for a test for a VM
  preseed the following worked for me:
  
  d-i grub-installer/bootdev string /dev/vda
  
   [1] https://bugs.debian.org/666974
  
  But having string (hd0) does not seem to work here (have not checked
  why), which would be nicer to have more generalised preseed files as
  previous possible (for say when having machines having a /dev/vda or a
  /dev/sda ...).
 
 First of all, I'm not familiar with d-i best practices. So maybe the
 following won't make sense.
 
 We could imagine either proposing another variable which would take
 specifications like “(hd0)” and do what's needed to convert them back to
 /dev/foo stuff, or detect (based on what? parens?) when a conversion is
 needed for the bootdev variable that was passed, and do that.

Well, grub-installer actually already does something like this in the
auto-detect phase. It tries to be very careful about not using an hd0
that would actually be a USB stick, but apparently (considering the bug
reports we have seen) it's not reliable enough.

We at the very least need to document this in the preseed file of the
installer, and probably in the relase as this will hit all automated
installations.

Samuel


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Bug#759290: debian-installer: 'Automated install' does not delay the locale and keyboard questions

2014-08-25 Thread Samuel Thibault
Control: tags -1 unreproducible

Andreas B. Mundt, le Mon 25 Aug 2014 23:19:03 +0200, a écrit :
 when experimenting with unattended installations using PXE-boot and
 preseeding d-i, I did not find the 'Automated install' (auto mode)
 working as described in [1]:
 
The auto kernel parameter is an alias for auto-install/enable and
setting it to true delays the locale and keyboard questions until
after there has been a chance to preseed them ...
 
 When I choose 'Automated install' from the 'Advanced options' menu,
 the first questions show up nevertheless (before setting up the
 network) and I have to answer them or preseed them on the kernel
 boot line.  Could it be that the delaying functionality got lost?

No, it is still there, but only if you provide some preseeding URL on
the boot line or CD image etc. Otherwise it will prompt for the URL, and
I guess that while at it, there's no point in not configuring the
keyboard before that.

At any rate, booting jessie b1 with the Automated install boot entry and
passing url=http://dept-info.labri.fr/~thibault/preseed-jessie.txt on
the kernel command line does install a Debian system without any prompt.

Samuel


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Re: Debian Installer Jessie Beta 1 release

2014-08-24 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Fri 22 Aug 2014 01:43:07 +0200, a écrit :
 Given what I mentioned above, I think what's in debian-installer should
 just work as it previously did?

I have tested it again with the gnome desktop and it works fine indeed.

Samuel


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Re: Debian Installer Jessie Beta 1 release

2014-08-24 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello,

Luke Yelavich, le Fri 22 Aug 2014 11:05:17 +1000, a écrit :
 You would probably have to set the correct gsettings keys for the login user.

We already do it for gdm actually.

 In Ubuntu I have things set up to set appropriate settings up for lightdm and 
 the unity greeter.

Ah, these could be useful indeed, where can I find them?

 The gsettings command-line tool can be used to do this. Note you do need dbus 
 and dconf installed and working for this to work.

That is already working for gdm.

Samuel


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Re: Bug#757987: kfreebsd: cannot create swap space

2014-08-22 Thread Samuel Thibault
Steven Chamberlain, le Fri 22 Aug 2014 14:42:45 +0100, a écrit :
 mkswap, and the whole format_swap script, is of no use to kfreebsd (or
 hurd I presume - please correct me if I'm wrong)

hurd uses the same format as Linux, do not disable formatting swap
there.

Samuel


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Bug#739989: espeak: build proper library udeb so that espeakup doesn't have to be statically linked and hence break on upstream version changes

2014-08-22 Thread Samuel Thibault
Control: reopen 739989

Oops, sorry, I replied to the original mail, and thus closed the
original bug, while I wanted to close the clone.  This should be fixing
it.

Samuel


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Re: d-i's purpose (was: Cannot find debian-installer/main-menu doesn't exist in menu)

2014-08-21 Thread Samuel Thibault
Steven Chamberlain, le Thu 21 Aug 2014 14:00:06 +0100, a écrit :
 d-i images may be very small, but I haven't found it practical on
 embedded systems, which may not even have working VGA or networking;

That's fine. I actually don't usually use VGA or network on servers, but
simply a serial port.

The d-i running live way is already available in the debian live
CD-ROMs.  I don't know how easy they are to produce, though.

Samuel


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Re: hurd-i386 daily build status

2014-08-21 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Thu 21 Aug 2014 17:51:23 +0200, a écrit :
 Builds have been missing for a week. Can you please have a look?

I missed making the incoming.d.o change there indeed.

 It's polluting monitoring.

Which monitoring?  Are some mails sent somewhere?  I guess I missed
that.

Samuel


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Re: hurd-i386 daily build status

2014-08-21 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Thu 21 Aug 2014 23:43:48 +0200, a écrit :
 Samuel Thibault sthiba...@debian.org (2014-08-21):
   It's polluting monitoring.
  
  Which monitoring?  Are some mails sent somewhere?  I guess I missed
  that.
 
 Talking about:
 | Architectures with missing build:
 | 
 | hurd-i386
 
 on http://d-i.debian.org/daily-images/daily-build-overview.html

Ok, that's indeed the page I had just added to my watchlist. Thanks.

Samuel


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Re: Debian Installer Jessie Beta 1 release

2014-08-21 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello,

cstrobel, le Mon 18 Aug 2014 22:11:54 -0400, a écrit :
  I installed Jessie using a Braille display.
 Debian-Jessie-DI-b1-amd64-net inst.iso
 I tried to get Orca going like this.

Ah. Normally Orca should automatically start at gdm and in the user
session if installation was done with a braille device or speech
synthesis.

Does anybody in d-accessibility how one is supposed to enable
accessibility in gdm with some shell script (probably calling some
gconftool-2 or using some schema)?

Samuel


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Re: Debian Installer Jessie Beta 1 release

2014-08-21 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Fri 22 Aug 2014 01:43:07 +0200, a écrit :
 Samuel Thibault sthiba...@debian.org (2014-08-22):
  Hello,
  
  cstrobel, le Mon 18 Aug 2014 22:11:54 -0400, a écrit :
I installed Jessie using a Braille display.
   Debian-Jessie-DI-b1-amd64-net inst.iso
   I tried to get Orca going like this.
  
  Ah. Normally Orca should automatically start at gdm and in the user
  session if installation was done with a braille device or speech
  synthesis.
 
 FWIW installing gnome with speech synthesis led me to have orca both at
 the gdm prompt and in the user session,

Ah, then perhaps it's just the braille case which is broken.

Samuel


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Re: Debian Installer Jessie Beta 1 release

2014-08-21 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Fri 22 Aug 2014 01:53:39 +0200, a écrit :
 Samuel Thibault sthiba...@debian.org (2014-08-22):
  Ah, then perhaps it's just the braille case which is broken.
 
 (You lost the submitter in your reply.)
 
 The submitter said the netinst image was used. So xfce/lightdm were
 presumably installed.

Ah, right.  We could make braille  speech preseed installing gnome if
not preseeded already (from explicit boot menu choice ending up on the
kernel command line or other preseeding methods).

 I'm not sure installing gnome-orca is sufficient
 since finish-install.d/07speakup only sets gnome schema things?

It's not sufficient indeed. The braille case does the same schema
things.

Samuel


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Re: Bug#758757: kfreebsd-10: d-i bugs caused by qemu-system-i386+kvm

2014-08-20 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Thu 21 Aug 2014 02:03:48 +0200, a écrit :
 Steven Chamberlain ste...@pyro.eu.org (2014-08-21):
  On 21/08/14 00:23, Steven Chamberlain wrote:
   Using qemu-system-i386 with the -smp 2 flag, I started seeing weird
   issues early in d-i:
  
  It seems more likely this was triggered by -enable-kvm (on a wheezy
  linux-amd64 host).
  
  Without that flag it looks reliable so far, even with -smp 2 (but I'm
  worried it could be non-deterministic).
 
 While this might be a bug in the emulation layer indeed, another view
 would be that -enable-kvm means stuff go quicker and you might have
 higher chances of hitting race conditions.

Without -enable-kvm, one only gets software simulation, which exposes
extremely little concurrency indeed: there is no real concurrent
execution at all, and just periodic execution switch from one virtual
CPU to another.

Samuel


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Re: localechooser_2.63_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into unstable

2014-08-20 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Sat 02 Aug 2014 02:31:22 +0200, a écrit :
 Debian FTP Masters ftpmas...@ftp-master.debian.org (2014-04-02):
   localechooser (2.63) unstable; urgency=high
 
 it'd be nice to stick to $version rather than debian/$version as far as
 git tags go.

Mmm, I indeed didn't notice that.  I had just used git-buildpackage
--git-tag-only, thinking that it would Do The Right Thing, as it usually
does in other repositories.  It would probably make sense to put a
gbp.conf file in the repositories which use that format?

 I've pushed a 2.63 tag to localechooser.git accordingly.

Thanks,
Samuel


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Bug#485586: debian-installer: Default to graphical install

2014-08-18 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Mon 18 Aug 2014 23:36:03 +0200, a écrit :
  +notepara
  +
  +The graphical installer requires significantly more memory to run than
  +the regular installer: minimum-memory-gtk;. If insufficient memory is
  +available, it will automatically fall back to the regular
  +quotenewt/quote frontend.
  +
  +/parapara
  +
  +If the amount of memory in your system is below minimum-memory;,
  +the graphical installer may fail to boot at all while booting the
  +regular installer would still work. Using the regular installer is
  +recommended for systems with little available memory.
  +
  +/para/note
 
 I'm not sure since I tend to use 1GB RAM every time, but I thought
 there was some fallback mechanism in place?

There is, but atm with 128MiB RAM it doesn't even boot, just because
the initrd is so big that we don't even get to boot to the point of the
fallback script.

Samuel


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Bug#485586: debian-installer: Default to graphical install

2014-08-18 Thread Samuel Thibault
Helloo,

Holger Wansing, le Mon 18 Aug 2014 23:07:11 +0200, a écrit :
 Basically I moved the chapter Appendix D.6. The Graphical Installer to
 5.1.8 (at the end of Booting the installer on 32-bit PC), leaving the
 content unchanged.
 
 And I moved chapter Appendix D.6.1. Using the graphical installer to
 6.1.1 (at the end of How the Installer Works), leaving the content
 mostly unchanged (only the first line differs).

That seems sensible indeed.

It would be very convenient, whenever you commit this, to actually
remove the old text, so it's really a move :)

Also, please do the same move in all the .xml translations, so that
translators don't have to do anything about it. The po translations
shouldn't need any change.

Samuel


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Re: Bug#485586: debian-installer: Default to graphical install

2014-08-18 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Tue 19 Aug 2014 01:17:02 +0200, a écrit :
 = debian-accessibility@: if we go from i386 to amd64 by default, is
there anything that needs to be done on your side (doc update etc.)

Normally, only the installer manual would need an update. I don't see
the multi-arch boot menu documented there, however.

that we should coordinate with you? As far as I can see, right now
we have s = i386, s + down arrow = amd64. This change would
mean s = amd64, s + up arrow = i386. I'm not sure that changing
the shortcuts are a good thing, to be honest, but being consistent
as far as the default architecture is concerned would probably be
G good idea anyway. :/

It happens that we have apparently never documented the case of the
multiarch image on http://wiki.debian.org/accessibility , so there is no
actual regression with the change.

Samuel


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Bug#758476: d-i manual: part about bootloader installation is missing in example preseed file 'preseed.txt'

2014-08-18 Thread Samuel Thibault
Control: tags -1 + pending

Holger Wansing, le Sun 17 Aug 2014 22:59:19 +0200, a écrit :
 The relevant paragraph was set to arch=any-x86 with this commit:
 http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/d-i/trunk/manual/en/appendix/preseed.xml?r1=65001r2=65009
 
 This attribute works for building the manual itself, but it fails for the
 preseed.pl script, which generates the preseed.txt file.
 
 In the perl script it is documented that 'condition' attributes and
 'arch' attributes are supported by the script, but there are apparently
 some problems.

Indeed, it wasn't implementing the any and x86 magics.

I have commited support for them, the bootloader section now gets in.

Samuel


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Bug#745262: console-setup: Caps lock doesn't take effect on øæå (Danish characters)

2014-08-14 Thread Samuel Thibault
Anton Zinoviev, le Thu 14 Aug 2014 13:53:41 +0300, a écrit :
 I don't like to upgrade the software of my computer too often.  I 
 suppose it is closer to wheezy than to jessie and that's why I don't see 
 the problem.

Well, you can probably set up a jessie or sid chroot.

 What is the output of
 
 perl -e 'printf %04X - %04X - %04X\n, hex(e6), 
 ord(lc(pack(U,hex(00e6, ord(uc(pack(U,hex(00e6;'
 
 It has to be
 
 00E6 - 00E6 - 00C6

€ perl -e 'printf %04X - %04X - %04X\n, hex(e6), 
ord(lc(pack(U,hex(00e6, ord(uc(pack(U,hex(00e6;'
00E6 - 00E6 - 00C6

Samuel


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Bug#745262: console-setup: Caps lock doesn't take effect on øæå (Danish characters)

2014-08-12 Thread Samuel Thibault
Anton Zinoviev, le Wed 06 Aug 2014 20:39:02 +0300, a écrit :
 On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 10:35:23PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
  
  Andreas, le Sun 20 Apr 2014 03:30:13 +0200, a écrit :
 
   On the Linux console the caps lock key doesn't take effect on the 
   Danish characters æøå. With caps lock on they are simply rendered 
   æøå (lower case), and not ÆØÅ as one would expect.
  
  Oops, indeed, it seems the version in Jessie does not properly defines
  the ctrll layer for upper cases like it used to in Wheezy. See ckbcomp
  dk:
  
  keycode 39 = +U+00e6 +U+00c6 dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
  dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute 
  dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
  dead_doubleacute +U+00e6 +U+00c6 dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
  dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute 
  dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
  dead_doubleacute +U+00e6 +U+00c6 dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
  dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute 
  dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
  dead_doubleacute +U+00e6 +U+00c6 dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
  dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute 
  dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
  dead_doubleacute +U+00e6 +U+00c6 dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
  dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute 
  dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
  dead_doubleacute +U+00e6 +U+00c6 dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
  dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute 
  dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
  dead_doubleacute +U+00e6 +U+00c6 dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
  dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute 
  dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
  dead_doubleacute +U+00e6 +U+00c6 dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
  dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute 
  dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute dead_doubleacute dead_acute 
  dead_doubleacute
  
  It uses only +U+00e6 +U+00c6, while it should use +U+00c6 +U+00e6 for
  ctrll layers.
 
 I am unable to reproduce this.  What locale do you use?  I've tested 
 with LC_ALL=C, LC_ALL=da_DK.utf8 and LC_ALL=da_DK.

Well, whatever the locale, LC_ALL=C for instance, I get only +U+00e6
+U+00c6, and never +U+00c6 +U+00e6.  I've tried both console-setup 1.102
and 1.111.

Samuel


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Bug#757882: pkgsel: [text frontend] No feedback right after selecting the software tasks

2014-08-11 Thread Samuel Thibault
Package: pkgsel
Version: 0.42
Severity: normal

Hello,

This is a problem only with the test frontend, used by our speech
synthesizer version. This can be tested easily by booting the installer
with the Install with speech synthesis boot entry.

Right after answering the Software selection tasksel question, one
does not get any feedback, so the user is wondering whether it's
installing anything.

AIUI, the issue is that the title, Select and install software, has
already been printed above, before the tasksel question, and when
getting back to pkgsel, the title is not printed again.

Perhaps it would be possible to separate software selection and
installation, so that we have two titles?

Samuel

-- System Information:
Debian Release: jessie/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (990, 'testing'), (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'stable'), (500, 
'oldstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Foreign Architectures: i386

Kernel: Linux 3.16.0 (SMP w/8 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash

Versions of packages tasksel depends on:
ii  apt 1.0.6
ii  cdebconf [debconf-2.0]  0.191
ii  debconf [debconf-2.0]   1.5.53
ii  liblocale-gettext-perl  1.05-8
ii  perl-base   5.18.2-7
ii  tasksel-data3.20

tasksel recommends no packages.

tasksel suggests no packages.

-- debconf information excluded

-- 
Samuel
Raize can you guys see what I type?
vecna no, raize
Raize How do I set it up so you can see it?


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Re: Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop

2014-08-08 Thread Samuel Thibault
Jonas Smedegaard, le Fri 08 Aug 2014 16:11:58 +0200, a écrit :
 The following is on a wheezy chroot:
 
 root@bastian:/# aptitude install task-gnome-desktop
 The following NEW packages will be installed:
 [...]
 Need to get 370 MB of archives. After unpacking 1099 MB will be used.
 
 root@bastian:/# aptitude install task-xfce-desktop
 The following NEW packages will be installed:
 [...]
 Need to get 115 MB of archives. After unpacking 348 MB will be used.
 
 Desktop needing 370MB versus 115MB seems pretty significant to me.

Actually it's 1.1GiB versus 348MiB. But that is barring the rest of the
desktop.

More precise measurements can be found in the installation manual, for
which we also install task-desktop etc. which ends up with 3.2GiB for
Gnome  KDE, 2.3GiB for XFCE, 2GiB for LXDE.

Samuel


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Bug#757099: d-i manual: update relevant archs for jessie

2014-08-05 Thread Samuel Thibault
Holger Wansing, le Tue 05 Aug 2014 11:57:46 +0200, a écrit :
 Package: installation-guide
 Tags: patch
 
 arch list for d-i manual needs an update (dropped architectures):

Indeed, please commit.

 +#Package: installation-guide-s390

You can probably just remove it, like you did in archlist.

Samuel


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Bug#756893: ram requirements for d-i: stats in d-i manual

2014-08-04 Thread Samuel Thibault
Holger Wansing, le Mon 04 Aug 2014 11:22:06 +0200, a écrit :
 Cyril Brulebois k...@debian.org wrote:
  Holger Wansing li...@wansing-online.de (2014-08-03):
   the ram requirements needed to install with d-i stated in the
   d-i manual are not up-to-date.
   
   Indeed they are outdated since release of Wheezy and before.
   Read 
   https://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2013/05/msg00654.html
   and follow-ups, to get an idea what could be changed.
   
   
   Probably this should be updated now?
  
  Sure, please go ahead.
 
 Ok, so the decision is still open, which values to use.

The procedure is documented in the lowmem's README file.

Samuel


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Bug#756893: ram requirements for d-i: stats in d-i manual

2014-08-04 Thread Samuel Thibault
Holger Wansing, le Mon 04 Aug 2014 11:22:06 +0200, a écrit :
 So what needs to be changed?
 In
 https://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2013/05/msg00662.html
 I have already proposed the following:
 
 
   Table 3.2. Recommended Minimum System Requirements
   Install TypeRAM (minimal)   RAM (recommended)   Hard Drive
 - No desktop  64 megabytes256 megabytes   1 gigabyte
 - With Desktop128 megabytes   512 megabytes   5 gigabytes
 + No desktop  128 megabytes   512 megabytes   1 gigabyte
 + With Desktop256 megabytes   1 gigabyte  5 gigabytes
 
 OK to commit this?

That sounds reasonable to me, although we may want to double the hard
drive part too (these are recommended values, not minimum values; I
wouldn't recommend just 1GiB and 5GiB).

Samuel


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Bug#756996: mentions of 2.6 kernel in the d-i manual

2014-08-04 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello,

Holger Wansing, le Mon 04 Aug 2014 11:55:43 +0200, a écrit :
 Please note that I have added an entity for the default kernel series
 shipped with the respective release.
 Would it be worse to add such an entity? 

I'm actually surprised it wasn't there already.:

 Is 3.14 kernel for Jessie correct?

Recent mails said it'd rather be 3.16

 Index: en/appendix/files.xml
 ===
 --- en/appendix/files.xml (Revision 69218)
 +++ en/appendix/files.xml (Arbeitskopie)
 @@ -202,7 +202,8 @@
  para
  
  A standard installation for the amd64 architecture, including all standard
 -packages and using the default 2.6 kernel, takes up std-system-size;MB of 
 disk space.
 +packages and using the default linuxkernelseries-ver; kernel, takes up to
 +std-system-size;MB of disk space.
  A minimal base installation, without the quoteStandard system/quote
  task selected, will take base-system-size;MB.

Well, I'm not sure it's actually useful to mention the kernel version
at all actually. Mentioning the precise version (3.16) seems really
pointless at least.

 Index: en/install-methods/tftp/rarp.xml
 ===
 --- en/install-methods/tftp/rarp.xml  (Revision 69218)
 +++ en/install-methods/tftp/rarp.xml  (Arbeitskopie)
 @@ -17,7 +17,7 @@
  
  /parapara
  
 -On a RARP server system using a Linux 2.4 or 2.6 kernel, or Solaris/SunOS,
 +On a RARP server system using a Linux 2.4, 2.6 or 3.x kernel, or 
 Solaris/SunOS,

I would rather patch into Linux 2.4 and further. The functionality is
not to go away any time soon, even in a 4.x etc. timeframe.

 ===
 --- en/partitioning/tree.xml  (Revision 69218)
 +++ en/partitioning/tree.xml  (Arbeitskopie)
 @@ -49,7 +49,7 @@
entryMount point for mounting a file system temporarily/entry
  /rowrow
entryfilenameproc/filename/entry
 -  entryVirtual directory for system information (2.4 and 2.6 
 kernels)/entry
 +  entryVirtual directory for system information (2.4, 2.6 and 3.x 
 kernels)/entry

I wouldn't even mention the version: I've seen /proc for as long as I
can remember.

 @@ -61,7 +61,7 @@
entryEssential system binaries/entry
  /rowrow
entryfilenamesys/filename/entry
 -  entryVirtual directory for system information (2.6 kernels)/entry
 +  entryVirtual directory for system information (2.6 and 3.x 
 kernels)/entry

I'd rather patch into Linux 2.6 and further, I don't think /sys is to
go away.

Samuel


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Bug#756996: mentions of 2.6 kernel in the d-i manual

2014-08-04 Thread Samuel Thibault
Holger Wansing, le Mon 04 Aug 2014 22:54:17 +0200, a écrit :
 Then there is no need to create that entity at all, right?

Indeed.

Samuel


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Bug#755871: doesn't prompt for keyboard layout when installing over serial konsole

2014-07-24 Thread Samuel Thibault
Daniel Baumann, le Thu 24 Jul 2014 08:30:25 +0200, a écrit :
 when installing serial console, kbd-chooser is run but doesn't prompt
 for a keyboard layout. eventhough when installing over serial, the
 remote machine has the keyboard that is used to enter things during
 installation, i'd still like to configure the target systems keyboard.

I don't know when the discussion happened (if any), but from the source
code it seems that it was made on purpose to avoid a seemingly useless
question.

Samuel


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Re: Bug#754544: espeakup-udeb: uninstallable due to wrong version information for espeak-data-udeb

2014-07-13 Thread Samuel Thibault
Samuel Thibault, le Sun 13 Jul 2014 00:55:14 +0200, a écrit :
 Cyril Brulebois, le Sun 13 Jul 2014 00:23:31 +0200, a écrit :
   and this is the expected version dependency at work.  Just binNMU-ing
   espeakup will fix it.
  
  but anyway, someone needs to perform the binNMUs or request them; and
  I haven't seen anything on -wb-team@ yet.
 
 Sure, I just hadn't gotten the time to do it yet.

This is now done.

Samuel


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Re: Bug#754544: espeakup-udeb: uninstallable due to wrong version information for espeak-data-udeb

2014-07-12 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello,

Cyril Brulebois, le Sat 12 Jul 2014 11:10:08 +0200, a écrit :
 Package: espeakup-udeb
 Version: 1.48.04+dfsg-1
 
 this package can't be installed due to the version information for
 espeak-data-udeb:
 | $ dpkg --compare-versions 1.48.04+dfsg-1 '=' 1.48.04~; echo $?
 | 0
 | $ dpkg --compare-versions 1.48.04+dfsg-1 '' 1.48.04A; echo $?
 | 1

Well, yes, as I mentioned on the d-boot list, +dfsg was just added,
and this is the expected version dependency at work.  Just binNMU-ing
espeakup will fix it.

Samuel


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Re: Bug#754544: espeakup-udeb: uninstallable due to wrong version information for espeak-data-udeb

2014-07-12 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Sun 13 Jul 2014 00:23:31 +0200, a écrit :
  and this is the expected version dependency at work.  Just binNMU-ing
  espeakup will fix it.
 
 but anyway, someone needs to perform the binNMUs or request them; and
 I haven't seen anything on -wb-team@ yet.

Sure, I just hadn't gotten the time to do it yet.

Samuel


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Re: libespeak / espeakup

2014-07-11 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Mon 07 Jul 2014 02:44:03 +0200, a écrit :
 Samuel Thibault sthiba...@debian.org (2014-05-22):
  Some time ago, I realized that espeakup-udeb needs to be rebuilt on
  each new upstream libespeak upload, because libespeak needs an exact
  match between the library version and the data version, and espeakup
  is linked statically against libespeak. So whenever we get a new
  upstream version of the espeak-data-udeb package, we have to relink
  espeakup statically against the corresponding libespeak.a.
 
 You might prove me wrong but I don't think that's happening a lot?

It's not that often, indeed.  The concern is more to make sure that we
detect it.

 Right now we have a cronned edos/dose job that looks for uninstallable
 udebs and let me know when situation changes (be it for better or for
 worse); so at least the detection side is implemented already,

Not completely: for now espeakup-udeb has an unversioned dependency on
espeak-data-udeb. But that will probably be far easier and maintain than
several udebs, I'll have a look.

Samuel


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Re: libespeak / espeakup

2014-07-11 Thread Samuel Thibault
Samuel Thibault, le Fri 11 Jul 2014 11:04:02 +0200, a écrit :
 Cyril Brulebois, le Mon 07 Jul 2014 02:44:03 +0200, a écrit :
  Right now we have a cronned edos/dose job that looks for uninstallable
  udebs and let me know when situation changes (be it for better or for
  worse); so at least the detection side is implemented already,
 
 Not completely: for now espeakup-udeb has an unversioned dependency on
 espeak-data-udeb. But that will probably be far easier and maintain than
 several udebs, I'll have a look.

It does seem to work fine.  I'll drop the libespeak-udeb package then.

Samuel


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Re: libespeak / espeakup

2014-07-11 Thread Samuel Thibault
Samuel Thibault, le Fri 11 Jul 2014 11:58:31 +0200, a écrit :
 Samuel Thibault, le Fri 11 Jul 2014 11:04:02 +0200, a écrit :
  Cyril Brulebois, le Mon 07 Jul 2014 02:44:03 +0200, a écrit :
   Right now we have a cronned edos/dose job that looks for uninstallable
   udebs and let me know when situation changes (be it for better or for
   worse); so at least the detection side is implemented already,
  
  Not completely: for now espeakup-udeb has an unversioned dependency on
  espeak-data-udeb. But that will probably be far easier and maintain than
  several udebs, I'll have a look.
 
 It does seem to work fine.  I'll drop the libespeak-udeb package then.

We'll actually be able to check that the uninstallability test and
binNMU of espeakup to fix it works fine, since I had added +dfsg suffix
for the repackaging of the upstream espeak tarball.

Samuel


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Bug#749262: debian-installer: Please start generating hurd-i386 daily images

2014-05-30 Thread Samuel Thibault
Cyril Brulebois, le Fri 30 May 2014 20:48:16 +0200, a écrit :
 Samuel Thibault sthiba...@debian.org (2014-05-30):
  Gabriele Giacone, le Sun 25 May 2014 19:24:24 +0200, a écrit :
   Please start generating them at 
   
   http://d-i.debian.org/daily-images/hurd-i386/
   
   in order to let debian-cd getting components under daily/cdrom.
  
  This is now set up.
 
 Committing changes to daily-build-setup.git would have been better.

Oops, sorry, after doing all the needed work, I didn't remember that
this was a git repository.

Samuel


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