Bug#1043226: +1 (Re: Bug#1043226: debian-installer: Please consider moving root user setup to expert install, or change text)
On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 10:03:22PM +0100, Samuel Henrique wrote: > > So, many users, and especially newcomers to Debian, follow the instructions > > in the > > first line and are then surprised when they can't use sudo from their user > > from > > their newly installed system. > I've seen this issue happening so many times. > This would be a huge UX improvement for the installation process and I > really hope the change is made, thank you for filling this, Jonathan! I very much second this. -- cheers, Holger ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ OpenPGP: B8BF54137B09D35CF026FE9D 091AB856069AAA1C ⠈⠳⣄ "In just 6 decades, roughly the life span of a blue whale, humans took blue whale population down from 360,000 to just 1,000. In one century, whalers killed two million baleen whales, which together weighed twice as much as all wild mammals on Earth today." https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/11/whaling-whales-food-krill-iron/620604/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#1043226: debian-installer: Please consider moving root user setup to expert install, or change text
On 19/08/2023 at 10:28, Diederik de Haas wrote: On Monday, 7 August 2023 18:25:07 CEST Jonathan Carter wrote: Firstly, the instructions start off with "You need to set a password for 'root'", followed by seemingly uninteresting text about what a good password should be, which makes it incredibly easy for users to miss the part that sudo won't be set up for the first user. Then just move the sudo text before the good password text. So, many users, and especially newcomers to Debian, follow the instructions in the first line and are then surprised when they can't use sudo from their user from their newly installed system. So what ? All they have to do is use su and add themselves to the sudoers. Would it perhaps make more sense to move the root password setup to the expert install d-i preseed entirely? Since this is likely only something that expert users would require in the first place? Unless there's something actually wrong about having an enabled root account with a password, I would prefer if the option would stay. Me too. Unless it changed recently, a root password is required to start the emergency shell when booting in recovery mode, so not having a root password makes fixing some problems harder. move the explanation of what happens upward so that it's more prominent and not so easy to miss. Agreed. The good password text is relevant only when the user chooses to set a root password and not set up sudo for the first user.
Bug#1043226: debian-installer: Please consider moving root user setup to expert install, or change text
On Monday, 7 August 2023 18:25:07 CEST Jonathan Carter wrote: > Source: debian-installer > Version: 20230607+deb12u1 > > Firstly, the instructions start off with "You need to set a password for > 'root'", followed by seemingly uninteresting text about what a good password > should be, which makes it incredibly easy for users to miss the part that > sudo won't be set up for the first user. Recently did an install in a VM and noticed it's about 5 or 6 lines, not 50 pages, of text ... which I don't consider an unreasonable 'burden' to read when the user is installing a fresh OS on a machine or VM. > So, many users, and especially newcomers to Debian, follow the instructions > in the first line and are then surprised when they can't use sudo from > their user from their newly installed system. > > Would it perhaps make more sense to move the root password setup to the > expert install d-i preseed entirely? Since this is likely only something > that expert users would require in the first place? Unless there's something actually wrong about having an enabled root account with a password, I would prefer if the option would stay. > Either that, or move the explanation of what happens upward so that it's > more prominent and not so easy to miss. Improving the text otoh sounds like a great solution to fix any potential confusion. My 0.02 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Bug#1043226: debian-installer: Please consider moving root user setup to expert install, or change text
> So, many users, and especially newcomers to Debian, follow the instructions > in the > first line and are then surprised when they can't use sudo from their user > from > their newly installed system. I've seen this issue happening so many times. This would be a huge UX improvement for the installation process and I really hope the change is made, thank you for filling this, Jonathan! Cheers, -- Samuel Henrique
Bug#1043226: debian-installer: Please consider moving root user setup to expert install, or change text
I agree, this was talked on in two podcast this and last month, Distrohoppers Digest from July and Linux Userspace from yesterday in August Den mån 7 aug. 2023 kl 18:27 skrev Jonathan Carter : > > Source: debian-installer > Version: 20230607+deb12u1 > Severity: wishlist > > Dear Maintainer, > > When setting up users and passwords in debian-installer in a default install, > it prompts a user to set up a root password. In d-i, this works very different > than in other installers, which causes quite a bit of confusion for users. > > Firstly, the instructions start off with "You need to set a password for > 'root'", followed by seemingly uninteresting text about what a good password > should be, which makes it incredibly easy for users to miss the part that sudo > won't be set up for the first user. > > So, many users, and especially newcomers to Debian, follow the instructions > in the > first line and are then surprised when they can't use sudo from their user > from > their newly installed system. > > Would it perhaps make more sense to move the root password setup to the expert > install d-i preseed entirely? Since this is likely only something that expert > users would require in the first place? Either that, or move the explanation > of what happens upward so that it's more prominent and not so easy to miss. In > the latter case, it might also be worth while changing the first line that > says > "you need to..." so that user won't feel compelled to immediately start typing > a root password and click on next. > > Thank you for considering, > > -Jonathan >
Bug#1043226: debian-installer: Please consider moving root user setup to expert install, or change text
Source: debian-installer Version: 20230607+deb12u1 Severity: wishlist Dear Maintainer, When setting up users and passwords in debian-installer in a default install, it prompts a user to set up a root password. In d-i, this works very different than in other installers, which causes quite a bit of confusion for users. Firstly, the instructions start off with "You need to set a password for 'root'", followed by seemingly uninteresting text about what a good password should be, which makes it incredibly easy for users to miss the part that sudo won't be set up for the first user. So, many users, and especially newcomers to Debian, follow the instructions in the first line and are then surprised when they can't use sudo from their user from their newly installed system. Would it perhaps make more sense to move the root password setup to the expert install d-i preseed entirely? Since this is likely only something that expert users would require in the first place? Either that, or move the explanation of what happens upward so that it's more prominent and not so easy to miss. In the latter case, it might also be worth while changing the first line that says "you need to..." so that user won't feel compelled to immediately start typing a root password and click on next. Thank you for considering, -Jonathan
