Bug#474879: Proposed changes to section 6.2.2 about translation updates and dealing with changed English text
Lucas Nussbaum a scris: > On 27/01/09 at 14:56 +0200, Eddy Petrișor wrote: >> Lucas Nussbaum a scris: >>> tags 474879 + pending >>> thanks >>> >>> On 16/08/08 at 07:35 -0300, Christian Perrier wrote: tags 474879 patch thanks The attached patch adds more information about two topics: - how to "unfuzzy" strings when doing a change in English texts for debconf templates which has no impact on translations - how to call for translation updates when doing a change in English text that *has* an impact on translations -- --- best-pkging-practices.dbk.old 2008-08-12 22:26:55.987121165 -0300 +++ best-pkging-practices.dbk 2008-08-16 07:30:46.100519160 -0300 @@ -755,30 +755,49 @@ Avoid changing templates too often. Changing templates text induces more work -to translators which will get their translation fuzzied. If you plan changes -to your original templates, please contact translators. Most active +to translators which will get their translation fuzzied. A fuzzy translation is +a string for which the original changed since it was translated, therefore +requiring some update by a translator to be usable. When changes are small +enough, the original translation is kept in PO files but marked as +fuzzy. + + +If you plan to do changes +to your original templates, please use the notification system provided with +the >>> +role="package">po-debconf package, namely the +podebconf-report-po, to contact translators. Most active translators are very responsive and getting their work included along with your modified templates will save you additional uploads. If you use gettext-based -templates, the translator's name and e-mail addresses are mentioned in the po -files headers. +templates, the translator's name and e-mail addresses are mentioned in the PO +files headers and will be used by +podebconf-report-po. + + +A recommended use of that utility is: +cd debian/po && podebconf-report-po --languageteam --withtranslators --call --deadline="+10 days" -The use of the podebconf-report-po from the >>> -role="package">po-debconf package is highly recommended to warn -translators which have incomplete translations and request them for updates. +This command will first synchronize the PO and POT files in debian/po with +the templates files listed in debian/po/POTFILES.in. +Then, it will send a call for translation updates to the language team +(mentioned in the Language-Team field of each PO file) +as well as the last translator (mentioned in +Last-translator). Finally, it will also send a call for +new translations, in the &email-debian-i18n; mailing list. + + +Giving a deadline to translators is always appreciated, so that they can >> +organize their work. Please remember that some translation teams have a +formalized translate/review process and a delay lower than 10 days is +considered as reasonable. A shorter delay puts too much pressure on translation >> That's not correct. You probably meant: >> >> ... a delay not lower than 10 days is considered reasonable. ... >> or >> ... a delay of at least 10 days is considered reasonable. ... > > Actually, the version I committed is: > Please remember that some translation teams have a > formalized translate/review process and a delay lower than > 10 days is considered as unreasonable. > > Which is correct, I think. Yes, that sounds right. >> Also, probably adding "the" before "translation teams" is better: >> >> ... too much pressure on the translation teams and ... >> +teams and should be kept for very minor changes. >>> Thanks, applied (with changes suggested by Esko Arajärvi). >> Not sure which were those, but here go mine. > > There are many occurences of bad english in dev-ref, so I'm not going to > start fixing each of them now, unless they change the meaning. fair enough -- Regards, EddyP = "Imagination is more important than knowledge" A.Einstein signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Bug#474879: Proposed changes to section 6.2.2 about translation updates and dealing with changed English text
On 27/01/09 at 14:56 +0200, Eddy Petrișor wrote: > Lucas Nussbaum a scris: > > tags 474879 + pending > > thanks > > > > On 16/08/08 at 07:35 -0300, Christian Perrier wrote: > >> tags 474879 patch > >> thanks > >> > >> The attached patch adds more information about two topics: > >> > >> - how to "unfuzzy" strings when doing a change in English texts for > >> debconf templates which has no impact on translations > >> > >> - how to call for translation updates when doing a change in English > >> text that *has* an impact on translations > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > >> > > > >> --- best-pkging-practices.dbk.old 2008-08-12 22:26:55.987121165 -0300 > >> +++ best-pkging-practices.dbk 2008-08-16 07:30:46.100519160 -0300 > >> @@ -755,30 +755,49 @@ > >> > >> > >> Avoid changing templates too often. Changing templates text induces more > >> work > >> -to translators which will get their translation fuzzied. If you plan > >> changes > >> -to your original templates, please contact translators. Most active > >> +to translators which will get their translation fuzzied. A fuzzy > >> translation is > >> +a string for which the original changed since it was translated, therefore > >> +requiring some update by a translator to be usable. When changes are > >> small > >> +enough, the original translation is kept in PO files but marked as > >> +fuzzy. > >> + > >> + > >> +If you plan to do changes > >> +to your original templates, please use the notification system provided > >> with > >> +the >> +role="package">po-debconf package, namely the > >> +podebconf-report-po, to contact translators. Most active > >> translators are very responsive and getting their work included along > >> with your > >> modified templates will save you additional uploads. If you use > >> gettext-based > >> -templates, the translator's name and e-mail addresses are mentioned in > >> the po > >> -files headers. > >> +templates, the translator's name and e-mail addresses are mentioned in > >> the PO > >> +files headers and will be used by > >> +podebconf-report-po. > >> + > >> + > >> +A recommended use of that utility is: > >> > >> +cd debian/po && podebconf-report-po > >> --languageteam --withtranslators --call --deadline="+10 > >> days" > >> > >> -The use of the podebconf-report-po from the >> -role="package">po-debconf package is highly recommended to > >> warn > >> -translators which have incomplete translations and request them for > >> updates. > >> +This command will first synchronize the PO and POT files in debian/po with > >> +the templates files listed in debian/po/POTFILES.in. > >> +Then, it will send a call for translation updates to the language team > >> +(mentioned in the Language-Team field of each PO file) > >> +as well as the last translator (mentioned in > >> +Last-translator). Finally, it will also send a call for > >> +new translations, in the &email-debian-i18n; mailing list. > >> + > >> + > >> +Giving a deadline to translators is always appreciated, so that they can > > > >> +organize their work. Please remember that some translation teams have a > >> +formalized translate/review process and a delay lower than 10 days is > >> +considered as reasonable. A shorter delay puts too much pressure on > >> translation > > That's not correct. You probably meant: > > ... a delay not lower than 10 days is considered reasonable. ... > or > ... a delay of at least 10 days is considered reasonable. ... Actually, the version I committed is: Please remember that some translation teams have a formalized translate/review process and a delay lower than 10 days is considered as unreasonable. Which is correct, I think. > Also, probably adding "the" before "translation teams" is better: > > ... too much pressure on the translation teams and ... > > >> +teams and should be kept for very minor changes. > > > Thanks, applied (with changes suggested by Esko Arajärvi). > > Not sure which were those, but here go mine. There are many occurences of bad english in dev-ref, so I'm not going to start fixing each of them now, unless they change the meaning. -- | Lucas Nussbaum | lu...@lucas-nussbaum.net http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/ | | jabber: lu...@nussbaum.fr GPG: 1024D/023B3F4F | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#474879: Proposed changes to section 6.2.2 about translation updates and dealing with changed English text
Quoting Eddy Petri?or (eddy.petri...@gmail.com): > That's not correct. You probably meant: > > ... a delay not lower than 10 days is considered reasonable. ... > or > ... a delay of at least 10 days is considered reasonable. ... True. The original proposal was saying the entire opposite of what I intended to say..:) > > > Also, probably adding "the" before "translation teams" is better: > > ... too much pressure on the translation teams and ... Here, I'm far from being sure your proposed change is correct. My own experience with corrections on debian-l10n-english would tell me this is Frenglish (in short, understand that I could have used such extra "the").so your proposal could well be Romenglish (that new language could very well be quite close of Frenglish). Let's native (or more experienced) speakers tell us The Truth. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#474879: Proposed changes to section 6.2.2 about translation updates and dealing with changed English text
Lucas Nussbaum a scris: > tags 474879 + pending > thanks > > On 16/08/08 at 07:35 -0300, Christian Perrier wrote: >> tags 474879 patch >> thanks >> >> The attached patch adds more information about two topics: >> >> - how to "unfuzzy" strings when doing a change in English texts for >> debconf templates which has no impact on translations >> >> - how to call for translation updates when doing a change in English >> text that *has* an impact on translations >> >> -- >> >> >> > >> --- best-pkging-practices.dbk.old2008-08-12 22:26:55.987121165 -0300 >> +++ best-pkging-practices.dbk2008-08-16 07:30:46.100519160 -0300 >> @@ -755,30 +755,49 @@ >> >> >> Avoid changing templates too often. Changing templates text induces more >> work >> -to translators which will get their translation fuzzied. If you plan >> changes >> -to your original templates, please contact translators. Most active >> +to translators which will get their translation fuzzied. A fuzzy >> translation is >> +a string for which the original changed since it was translated, therefore >> +requiring some update by a translator to be usable. When changes are small >> +enough, the original translation is kept in PO files but marked as >> +fuzzy. >> + >> + >> +If you plan to do changes >> +to your original templates, please use the notification system provided with >> +the > +role="package">po-debconf package, namely the >> +podebconf-report-po, to contact translators. Most active >> translators are very responsive and getting their work included along with >> your >> modified templates will save you additional uploads. If you use >> gettext-based >> -templates, the translator's name and e-mail addresses are mentioned in the >> po >> -files headers. >> +templates, the translator's name and e-mail addresses are mentioned in the >> PO >> +files headers and will be used by >> +podebconf-report-po. >> + >> + >> +A recommended use of that utility is: >> >> +cd debian/po && podebconf-report-po --languageteam >> --withtranslators --call --deadline="+10 days" >> >> -The use of the podebconf-report-po from the > -role="package">po-debconf package is highly recommended to warn >> -translators which have incomplete translations and request them for updates. >> +This command will first synchronize the PO and POT files in debian/po with >> +the templates files listed in debian/po/POTFILES.in. >> +Then, it will send a call for translation updates to the language team >> +(mentioned in the Language-Team field of each PO file) >> +as well as the last translator (mentioned in >> +Last-translator). Finally, it will also send a call for >> +new translations, in the &email-debian-i18n; mailing list. >> + >> + >> +Giving a deadline to translators is always appreciated, so that they can >> +organize their work. Please remember that some translation teams have a >> +formalized translate/review process and a delay lower than 10 days is >> +considered as reasonable. A shorter delay puts too much pressure on >> translation That's not correct. You probably meant: ... a delay not lower than 10 days is considered reasonable. ... or ... a delay of at least 10 days is considered reasonable. ... Also, probably adding "the" before "translation teams" is better: ... too much pressure on the translation teams and ... >> +teams and should be kept for very minor changes. > Thanks, applied (with changes suggested by Esko Arajärvi). Not sure which were those, but here go mine. -- Regards, EddyP = "Imagination is more important than knowledge" A.Einstein signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Bug#474879: Proposed changes to section 6.2.2 about translation updates and dealing with changed English text
tags 474879 + pending thanks On 16/08/08 at 07:35 -0300, Christian Perrier wrote: > tags 474879 patch > thanks > > The attached patch adds more information about two topics: > > - how to "unfuzzy" strings when doing a change in English texts for > debconf templates which has no impact on translations > > - how to call for translation updates when doing a change in English > text that *has* an impact on translations > > -- > > > > --- best-pkging-practices.dbk.old 2008-08-12 22:26:55.987121165 -0300 > +++ best-pkging-practices.dbk 2008-08-16 07:30:46.100519160 -0300 > @@ -755,30 +755,49 @@ > > > Avoid changing templates too often. Changing templates text induces more > work > -to translators which will get their translation fuzzied. If you plan changes > -to your original templates, please contact translators. Most active > +to translators which will get their translation fuzzied. A fuzzy > translation is > +a string for which the original changed since it was translated, therefore > +requiring some update by a translator to be usable. When changes are small > +enough, the original translation is kept in PO files but marked as > +fuzzy. > + > + > +If you plan to do changes > +to your original templates, please use the notification system provided with > +the +role="package">po-debconf package, namely the > +podebconf-report-po, to contact translators. Most active > translators are very responsive and getting their work included along with > your > modified templates will save you additional uploads. If you use > gettext-based > -templates, the translator's name and e-mail addresses are mentioned in the po > -files headers. > +templates, the translator's name and e-mail addresses are mentioned in the PO > +files headers and will be used by > +podebconf-report-po. > + > + > +A recommended use of that utility is: > > +cd debian/po && podebconf-report-po --languageteam > --withtranslators --call --deadline="+10 days" > > -The use of the podebconf-report-po from the -role="package">po-debconf package is highly recommended to warn > -translators which have incomplete translations and request them for updates. > +This command will first synchronize the PO and POT files in debian/po with > +the templates files listed in debian/po/POTFILES.in. > +Then, it will send a call for translation updates to the language team > +(mentioned in the Language-Team field of each PO file) > +as well as the last translator (mentioned in > +Last-translator). Finally, it will also send a call for > +new translations, in the &email-debian-i18n; mailing list. > + > + > +Giving a deadline to translators is always appreciated, so that they can > +organize their work. Please remember that some translation teams have a > +formalized translate/review process and a delay lower than 10 days is > +considered as reasonable. A shorter delay puts too much pressure on > translation > +teams and should be kept for very minor changes. > > > If in doubt, you may also contact the translation team for a given language > (debian-l10n-x@&lists-host;), or the > &email-debian-i18n; mailing list. > > - > -Calls for translations posted to &email-debian-i18n; with the > -debian/po/templates.pot file attached or referenced in a > -URL are encouraged. Be sure to mentions in these calls for new translations > -which languages you have existing translations for, in order to avoid > duplicate > -work. > - > > > > @@ -787,15 +806,89 @@ > When the text of a debconf template is corrected and you are role="strong">sure that the change does role="strong">not affect translations, please be kind to > translators > -and unfuzzy their translations. > +and unfuzzy their translations. > > > If you don't do so, the whole template will not be translated as long as a > translator will send you an update. > > > -To unfuzzy translations, you can proceed the > -following way: > +To unfuzzy translations, you can use two methods. The > first > +method does preventive search and replace actions in the > +PO files. The latter uses gettext utilities to > unfuzzy > +strings. > + > + > +Preventive unfuzzy method: > + > + > + > + > +Try finding a complete translation file > before > +the change: > + > +for i in debian/po/*po; do echo -n $i: ; msgfmt -o /dev/null > +--statistics $i; done > + > +The file only showing translated items will be used > +as the reference file. If there is none (which should not happen if you take > +care to properly interact with translators), you should use the file > +with the most translated strings. > + > + > + > + > +Identify the needed change. In this example, let's assume the change is about > +fixing a typo in the word typo which was inadvertently > +written as tpyo. Therefore, the change is > +s/tpyo/typo. > + > + > + > + > +Check that this change only applied to the place where you really intend > +to make it and not in another place > +where the original string is app
Bug#474879: Proposed changes to section 6.2.2 about translation updates and dealing with changed English text
Quoting Helge Kreutzmann ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > Hello Christian, > the proposed change is wellcomed and sounds reasonable, except one > item which I do not grasp in it entirety: > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 07:35:45AM -0300, Christian Perrier wrote: > > +Giving a deadline to translators is always appreciated, so that they can > > +organize their work. Please remember that some translation teams have a > > +formalized translate/review process and a delay lower than 10 days is > > +considered as reasonable. A shorter delay puts too much pressure on > > translation > > +teams and should be kept for very minor changes. > > What do you mean "delay lower than 10 days .. reasonable"? I suggest: > s/as reasonable./unreasonable./ As Esko already pointed, yes I meant "unreasonable" signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#474879: Proposed changes to section 6.2.2 about translation updates and dealing with changed English text
Hello Christian, the proposed change is wellcomed and sounds reasonable, except one item which I do not grasp in it entirety: On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 07:35:45AM -0300, Christian Perrier wrote: > +Giving a deadline to translators is always appreciated, so that they can > +organize their work. Please remember that some translation teams have a > +formalized translate/review process and a delay lower than 10 days is > +considered as reasonable. A shorter delay puts too much pressure on > translation > +teams and should be kept for very minor changes. What do you mean "delay lower than 10 days .. reasonable"? I suggest: s/as reasonable./unreasonable./ Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#474879: Proposed changes to section 6.2.2 about translation updates and dealing with changed English text
tags 474879 patch thanks The attached patch adds more information about two topics: - how to "unfuzzy" strings when doing a change in English texts for debconf templates which has no impact on translations - how to call for translation updates when doing a change in English text that *has* an impact on translations -- --- best-pkging-practices.dbk.old 2008-08-12 22:26:55.987121165 -0300 +++ best-pkging-practices.dbk 2008-08-16 07:30:46.100519160 -0300 @@ -755,30 +755,49 @@ Avoid changing templates too often. Changing templates text induces more work -to translators which will get their translation fuzzied. If you plan changes -to your original templates, please contact translators. Most active +to translators which will get their translation fuzzied. A fuzzy translation is +a string for which the original changed since it was translated, therefore +requiring some update by a translator to be usable. When changes are small +enough, the original translation is kept in PO files but marked as +fuzzy. + + +If you plan to do changes +to your original templates, please use the notification system provided with +the po-debconf package, namely the +podebconf-report-po, to contact translators. Most active translators are very responsive and getting their work included along with your modified templates will save you additional uploads. If you use gettext-based -templates, the translator's name and e-mail addresses are mentioned in the po -files headers. +templates, the translator's name and e-mail addresses are mentioned in the PO +files headers and will be used by +podebconf-report-po. + + +A recommended use of that utility is: +cd debian/po && podebconf-report-po --languageteam --withtranslators --call --deadline="+10 days" -The use of the podebconf-report-po from the po-debconf package is highly recommended to warn -translators which have incomplete translations and request them for updates. +This command will first synchronize the PO and POT files in debian/po with +the templates files listed in debian/po/POTFILES.in. +Then, it will send a call for translation updates to the language team +(mentioned in the Language-Team field of each PO file) +as well as the last translator (mentioned in +Last-translator). Finally, it will also send a call for +new translations, in the &email-debian-i18n; mailing list. + + +Giving a deadline to translators is always appreciated, so that they can +organize their work. Please remember that some translation teams have a +formalized translate/review process and a delay lower than 10 days is +considered as reasonable. A shorter delay puts too much pressure on translation +teams and should be kept for very minor changes. If in doubt, you may also contact the translation team for a given language (debian-l10n-x@&lists-host;), or the &email-debian-i18n; mailing list. - -Calls for translations posted to &email-debian-i18n; with the -debian/po/templates.pot file attached or referenced in a -URL are encouraged. Be sure to mentions in these calls for new translations -which languages you have existing translations for, in order to avoid duplicate -work. - @@ -787,15 +806,89 @@ When the text of a debconf template is corrected and you are sure that the change does not affect translations, please be kind to translators -and unfuzzy their translations. +and unfuzzy their translations. If you don't do so, the whole template will not be translated as long as a translator will send you an update. -To unfuzzy translations, you can proceed the -following way: +To unfuzzy translations, you can use two methods. The first +method does preventive search and replace actions in the +PO files. The latter uses gettext utilities to unfuzzy +strings. + + +Preventive unfuzzy method: + + + + +Try finding a complete translation file before +the change: + +for i in debian/po/*po; do echo -n $i: ; msgfmt -o /dev/null +--statistics $i; done + +The file only showing translated items will be used +as the reference file. If there is none (which should not happen if you take +care to properly interact with translators), you should use the file +with the most translated strings. + + + + +Identify the needed change. In this example, let's assume the change is about +fixing a typo in the word typo which was inadvertently +written as tpyo. Therefore, the change is +s/tpyo/typo. + + + + +Check that this change only applied to the place where you really intend +to make it and not in another place +where the original string is appropriate. That specifically applies to +change in punctuation, for instance. + + + + +Modify all PO files by using sed. The use of that command +is recommended over any text editor to guarantee that the files encoding will +not be broken by the edit action. + + +cd debian/po +for i in *.po; do sed -i 's/tpyo/typo/g' $i; done + + + + +Change the debconf template file to fix the typo. + + + + +Run debconf-updatepo + + + + +Che
