Packages which are in frozen which are libc5 based (and shouldn't be)

[James Troup]

Hi,

On i386, the following packages are still libc5-based or have
dependencies on libc5 based packages:

dotfile-1:2.2-1   Igor Grobman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 -- depends on libc5 versions of tcl/tk
gnats-tk-3.104-4  Brian White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 -- ditto
ilu-base-2.0.0.8-2Klee Dienes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 -- Needs to be in non-free too
lapack-2.0.1-1Sue Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 -- Personally I think this should be orphaned, the maintainer appears to be MIA
objpak-dev-1.1.1-1(orphan) 
 -- #21037 (Important) [Wasn't orphaned properly]
p3nfs-5.1-2(extra)Billy C.-M. Chow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 -- Personally I think this should be orphaned, the maintainer appears to be MIA
termcap-compat-1.1.1(extra)   Christian Hudon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 -- ?
userv-0.58-1(extra)   Ian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 -- Ian: any objection to a NMU of userv?
wm2-3-2   joost witteveen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 -- #12717
xmailtool-3.1.2b-1.2  (orphan)
 -- Not really libc5, just some super lame hardcoded depends. YANMU uploaded to 
master

I'm going to promote #12717 to important and report important bugs on
all the others.  Any objections?  (I hope no one thinks
non-libc5-compat libc5 packages should be in hamm when it's released).

The script used to obtain the above information is of course,
Richard's, kudos to him [it's done in awk too].

-- 
James


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Where are the boot floppies?

[Greg Stark]

They don't seem to be in the Incoming mirrors, are they somewhere else?

There's someone who posts periodically saying he has an automatically built
iso image and boot floppies somewhere but I can't find any of his posts in the
archives. 

Thanks,
greg


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Re: dictd and wordnet

[Marcus Brinkmann]

On Thu, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:05:12AM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Bob Hilliard wrote:

> serious package (I don't consider xteddy to be serious but only for the
> sake of learning maintaining a package).

I blame you for that. How can you take xteddy not serious? We need it.
Everyone needs a teddy. This is human psychology.

Could you make xteddy pop up at kernel oops?

;) Marcus

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Re: Lists archives outside debian.org

[Marco Budde]

Am 16.04.98 schrieb jdassen # wi.leidenuniv.nl ...

Moin [EMAIL PROTECTED]

j>  http://www.reference.com/
j> and
j>  http://www.findmail.com/

Nice for spams :(.

j> I think it would be useful to archive the Debian lists there too (in
j> addition to our www.debian.org archive).

No, please not.

cu, Marco

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Re: Debian Bug#20445 disagree

[Marcus Brinkmann]

On Thu, Apr 16, 1998 at 07:37:20PM +0200, Santiago Vila wrote:
> 
> > > If a package being in "experimental" does not implicitly mean "not to be
> > > distributed in CDs", then we would need definitely another different
> > > "experimental" for gettext.
> > 
> > I'm not sure whether or not "experimental" is appropriate for gettext, then.
> 
> I'm sure experimental is appropriate for gettext, as long as we all are
> sure that experimental is not appropriate to be put in CDs.

Is gettext so unstable? I doubt it. If it is only in experimental because
the upstream author expressed his wish not to distribute it widely, I
consider this as an abuse of experimental/.
 
> > Perhaps including project/experimental isn't such a good idea
> > after all.
> 
> I agree.

I do not. I think the whole thing about free software is to spread it.
Probably not on the binary CD, but what about the source CD, which is mainly
interesting for developers. I hope some vendors will be kind enough to be
not so picky.

Marcus

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Re: Making the libc5-libc6 upgrade to be safe (was: netstd...)

[Vincent Renardias]

On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Santiago Vila wrote:

> Please, tell me how much harm does to add a Pre-Depends field on libc6,
> ncurses3.4 and libreadlineg2 for netstd. I can tell you how much
> inconvenience does *not* to add it and then we can make a comparison
> between those two inconveniences.

I've had trouble with this very problem in November when upgrading one of
my machines to hamm (fortunatly, it was not 100kms away ;). Needless to
say I'm in favor of adding this pre-dependency. (pre-)dependencies are
used so it avoids your system to break when you upgrade it, and in this
case the upgrade fails, so a pre-dependence is definatly needed.

Cordialement,

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Making the libc5-libc6 upgrade to be safe (was: netstd...)

[Santiago Vila]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

[ This was: Bug#13849: netstd should predepend on libreadlineg2 ]

[ I would like to appeal to the technical comittee here. Unfortunately the
technical comittee does not exist yet and all we have so far is
debian-devel. Therefore we will have to discuss it here again ].

Summary: In a bo system, I managed to upgrade netstd without installing
libreadlineg2 first and the simple ftp client stopped working. This is a
really bad situation I really do not desire to anybody.

This should not have happened if netstd would have a Pre-Depends line on
libreadlineg2 (and libc6 & ncurses also, probably).

* On a system which is remotely administered, if for any reason the usual
installing method fails (dselect and libnet-perl and such), it is very
important to have an alternate method to fix the problem (as usual in
Unix, you may do things in several ways).

* The Murphy's law says that if dselect/libnet-perl is the *only*
method that is always guaranteed to work and because of that we decide
that no Pre-Depends is needed for netstd, then it is 100% sure that a lot
of users (it happened to me!) will find that dselect/libnet-perl fails and
will not find an alternate method to fix the problem. Probably the system
is also 100Km away from where you are.

* The total set of Pre-Depends targets is small (most Pre-Depends
are on libc6, ncurses3.4). bash already Pre-Depends on libreadlineg2.
Adding one more Pre-Depends on libreadlineg2 for netstd would not make
a great harm. Not adding a Pre-Depends on libreadlineg2 *could*
actually make a great harm.

* netstd is not essential, not even required, but for people that really
have netstd installed, netstd is *very* important.

In short I think that the addition of this simple Pre-Depends field
will make the libc5 to lib6 upgrade *much* more robust.

Perhaps people doing the upgrade by using the mini-howto or autoup.sh will
not notice it (no harm with these extra Pre-Depends), but people doing the
upgrade by using dselect will certainly notice it (possible harm, which we
can avoid, and therefore should avoid).


So I repeat the question I formulated one month ago:

Please, tell me how much harm does to add a Pre-Depends field on libc6,
ncurses3.4 and libreadlineg2 for netstd. I can tell you how much
inconvenience does *not* to add it and then we can make a comparison
between those two inconveniences.

Thanks.

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Re: dictd and wordnet

[Bob Hilliard]

Hi,

> >  The old WordNet packages used usr/lib/wordnet/dict/.  I believe
> This seemed me a bad choice and so I wanted to change it.
 
 I agree.  It seems undesirable to create a directory with nothing
in it but a subdirectory, if there is no expectation of adding more
files or directories to it.

> > either /usr/lib/dict/ or /usr/lib/dict/wordnet/ (since wordnet installs
> The last choice /usr/lib/dict/wordnet is possibly the best one in my
> opinion.

 Agreed.

> Hmm, so we should think about using /usr/share from the beginning because
> hamm is frozen and will not contain wordnet ( :-( ) and 2.1 will 
> move to FHS.
> 
> That would mean that the wordnet dictionaries should go into
>   /usr/share/dict/wordnet
> right?

 I think so.  However I haven't heard any policy statements about
how to implement the FHS, so I don't know if its appropriate to start
doing this now.  Maybe someone more knowledgeable will comment on this. 

Bob
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Re: dictd and wordnet

[Bob Hilliard]

Jean Pierre LeJacq <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Actually, /usr/share/dict.  Shouldn't new package be constructed from
> the start to use FHS?

 IIRC, it is intended to implement the FHS with symlinks
initially.  Until a definite announcement is made regarding the policy
for implementing the FHS, I expect to continue following the FSSTND.
 
> What format are these files in?  Are they ASCII?  The reason I ask is
> that I'm the maintainer of the cracklib package that uses lists of
> words to prevent the selection of easily guessed passwords.  If the
> wordnet database is in a suitable format, it may make an excellect
> source or words for cracklib.

 The wordnet database is ASCII.  The wordnet packages have been
orphaned, but you can download the wordnetbase_1.5-1 sources from
debian/project/orphaned/ on the mirrors.   The dictionary databases
for the dict program, which I am packaging, are compressed in .dz
format.  This is close enough to .gz that zless can read it.  The
sources are ASCII after extracting from the tarball.  They may be
obtained from ftp.cs.unc.edu/pub/users/faith/dict or
ftp.dict.org/pub/dict.

Bob
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Re: dpkg memory usage

[Kai Henningsen]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gregory S. Stark)  wrote on 15.04.98 in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Opening files in a large directory can be extremely inefficient in many Unix
> varieties. The kernel has to do a linear search for each the file. Linux 2.1
> should be faster because of the dentry stuff, but even so it would be more
> efficient to use a directory for each package with the various control files
> inside.

That doesn't make that much difference. It's really the huge number of  
packages that bites us, not the number of files per package.

One way to improve this would be copying the terminfo system, that is,  
putting every file in a subdirectory that's just the first letter of the  
filename. That reduces info to 26 subdirectories, each of which has a lot  
less files than info has today.

There are other ways to do it, of course.

MfG Kai


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X Strike Force homepage up

[Branden Robinson]

It's still pretty skeletal as far as style of presentation goes, but that's
subordinate to the content, which has been significantly updated.

My ideas about what the X Strike Force is and what it should do are there.
If anyone would like to help improve X, I urge you to take a look and see
if there's a role you can fill.  Some of the jobs will not be terribly
difficult (like the X servers, which will mainly consist of reproducing
old bugs); others will be more demanding.

Anders Hammarquist and James Troup: I expect you in particular will each
be interested in a couple of the roles available, but I don't want to
volunteer you without your consent.

Please check it out.

http://master.debian.org/~branden/xsf.html

-- 
G. Branden Robinson |  The first thing the communists do when
Purdue University   |  they take over a country is to outlaw
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  cockfighting.
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Re: Constitution - formal proposal (v0.6.1)

[Ian Jackson]

I think we should make it someone's job to collate versions and
amendments &c, so that the secretary doesn't have to do it unless they
want to.

So, I'm considering inserting after A.2 `Calling for a vote' 2.:

 3. The person who calls for a vote states what they believe the
wordings of the resolution and any relevant amendments are, and
consequently what form the ballot should take.  However, the final
decision on the form of ballot(s) is the Secretary's - see 7.1(1),
7.1(3) and A.3(6).

This puts the onus on the people proposing resolutions and amendments
to sort out the tedious details.

Ian.


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Re: elvis package

[Martin Schulze]

On Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 03:22:46AM +1000, Martin Mitchell wrote:
> I will take over the orphaned elvis package, unless someone else has already
> said they'll do it.

Elvis is non-free and the author ignores all mail coming from us,
both copyright mails as well as bugreports and fixes.

We have about 4 or 5 other vi clones so there is no need for
re-packaging it.  If you don't need it I'd appreciate you work 
on better packages.

Sorry,

Joey

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Re: dpkg memory usage

[Ian Jackson]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes ("Re: dpkg memory usage"):
...
> I've written a Regina REXX program to run some comparisons
> between the dpkg/status file and current Packages (+non-free,
> contrib, nonus) files. It currently shows which files need
> updating, misconfigured packages, shows a deb's paragraph from
> the Packages file. I think it would be useful to others. Would
> anyone like to have a look at it and give me some feedback?
> 
> I have a few questions. 
> 
> Is the status file likely to change radically? Or the Packages
> format?

The Packages format will not.  The status file may well.

> Which program updates /var/lib/dpkg/available? I've been making
> a Packages file by catting together all the Packages files
> (non-free, ...) and putting the file in /tmp.

dpkg updates /var/lib/dpkg/available.  See dpkg --help.

> Can I, as root, make the dpkg/available file from this catted file
> without screwing the package management up?

At the moment, yes, but I don't promise that this will continue to be
the case.

Ian.


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Re: Aiding the constitutional procedure [was Re: Automation of the constitutional procedure]

[Ian Jackson]

James A.Treacy writes ("Re: Aiding the constitutional procedure [was
Re: Automation of the constitutional procedure]"):
> [Dale:]
> > While I agree with the merrits of your previous arguments, I don't see
> > what this has to do with the constitution. The secretary has "powers"
> > which allow the secretary to execute that office. 
> 
> As long as section 4.2.5 is not violated then you are quite right.
> I was simply over-reacting to the tone in Ian's response.

Section 4.2(5) is violated only if the Secretary requires developers
to propose motions &c by mailing their bot in a special format, rather
than by posting a normal message to debian-devel (or whatever other
list we end up using).

The Secretary can of course maintain the data in such a bot
themselves, if they want to.

Ian.


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X11_release_note.txt

[Igor Grobman]

While working on the install doc, I noticed X11_release_note.txt which
is a note for debian X users with non-US keyboards.  That note
seems to be a *little* outdated.  Would someone with knowledge
of the issues care to update it, or if no update is needed,
at least change the versions of the packages etc.

Thanks,
Igor


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Re: Colored Shell

[Sudhakar Chandrasekharan]

> Pat Quick wrote:
> I have had Linux on my machine before (Slackware) and had a shell that had
> different colors assigned by file type.  It was pretty nice.  I cannot
> find the shell that does this in the newest version of Debian.  Any
> suggestions.  Help on changing shells at login would be appreciated as
> well (I am a little rusty).

What you are looking for is color ls.  

http://www.fokus.gmd.de/linux/RedHat/Color-ls-Tips.html [Some info is RH
specific]

S.
-- 
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   http://people.netscape.com/thaths/


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Re: Blender

[Ben Gertzfield]

> "Behan" == Behan Webster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Behan> Darn.  I downloaded blender today, but it needs a libc5
Behan> version of mesa 2.6 and libjpeg.  So it doesn't work on my
Behan> stock hamm system 8(.

Behan> I wrote to the people at Blender and asked about a libc6
Behan> version, and what license they were going to release it
Behan> under (pointing them to the DFSG of course), I and I just
Behan> got a reply!

I wrote the Blender folks too and got a very nice reply, pretty
much the same as yours. They seem to know what's going on!

Ben

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Blender

[Behan Webster]

Darn.  I downloaded blender today, but it needs a libc5 version of mesa
2.6 and libjpeg.  So it doesn't work on my stock hamm system 8(.

I wrote to the people at Blender and asked about a libc6 version, and
what license they were going to release it under (pointing them to the
DFSG of course), I and I just got a reply!

Ton Roosendaal wrote:
> Thanks for your message.
> The current Linux version of Blender has troubles with newer libc's.
> We are working at it. I think we'll release a version with the old libc static
> linked.
> 
> I am very excited by the idea of GPL'ing our source codes. But we are not 
> ready
> for it now.
> I'll check out the debian site!

Yippee!


btw, you can download the Blender at:

http://www.neogeo.nl/loadlinux.html

Behan

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Re: Colored Shell

[Brandon Mitchell]

On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Pat Quick wrote:

> I have had Linux on my machine before (Slackware) and had a shell that
> had different colors assigned by file type.  It was pretty nice.  I
> cannot find the shell that does this in the newest version of Debian.
> Any suggestions.  Help on changing shells at login would be appreciated
> as well (I am a little rusty).

Before I answer the question, two request.  First, debian-user is the
correct list for these types of questions.  Second, try to hit enter every
75 characters or so since your mail program doesn't seem to do this for
you.  (I'm not flaming you, they are the kind of things you learn by trial
and error.)

To get the color ls, put:
  alias ls='ls --color=auto'
in your .bashrc and .bash_profile or in the /etc/profile.

To change your shell, use chsh.

HTH,
Brandon

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Re: Colored Shell

[Shaleh]

First, this belongs on debian-user -- not devel.
The color came from ls.  Debian also ships this version of ls.  read
ls's man page and all should be clear.

> Pat Quick wrote:
> 
> I have had Linux on my machine before (Slackware) and had a shell that
> had different colors assigned by file type.  It was pretty nice.  I
> cannot find the shell that does this in the newest version of Debian.
> Any suggestions.  Help on changing shells at login would be
> appreciated as well (I am a little rusty).
> Thanks,
> Pat Quick
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] OR
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (where I have subscribed to the News lists)

-- 
---
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How can you think, when your eyes are closed?
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Re: MGL graphics library freed!

[Luis Francisco Gonzalez]

Enrique Zanardi wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 16, 1998 at 12:38:59PM +0100, Luis Francisco Gonzalez wrote:
> > Enrique Zanardi wrote:
> > > SciTech, the producers of MGL (a graphics library used to develop games
> > > like Hexen II and Quake for Windows) have decided to make that library
> > > "open source software", by changing its license to a derivative of the
> > > MPL. (See their note at the GGI mail-list:
> > >   http://www.ggi-project.org/mailinglist/apr98/288.html )
> > > 
> > > They are asking for comments on their license. If you are interested,
> > > you can find it at:
> > >   http://www.scitechsoft.com/mgl-license.txt
> > > 
> > > Anyone willing to debianize that stuff?
> > I had a look at the license and there are restrictions on the distribution 
> > of
> > modified versions. Seems to me, it'd go into non-free.
> 
> Sure? I haven't read it thoroughly, but section 2.1 allows distribution
> of the original source code, with or without modifications. And section
> 3.6 allows distribution of executables. Am I missing something?
> 
> (Also, this license is not so different from the MPL, so I would be
> surprised to see some "non-freeness" in it).
OK. It seems I looked at a differnt license 
(http://www.scitechsoft.com/down_lic.html)
and never went past the PREAMBLE:

SciTech Software does however reserve the right as the sole distributor of
the library source code. Hence although we encourage you to change and modify 
the library to suit your needs, you may not distribute derivative works based
on the library source code without express written permission from SciTech 
Software. 

I guess they still need to clean up their site.

Luis.
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Re: Debian Bug#20445 disagree

[Santiago Vila]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

Brian White:
> Project/experimental is not searched by dselect & friends

apt does search in experimental, as far as I know.

> > If a package being in "experimental" does not implicitly mean "not to be
> > distributed in CDs", then we would need definitely another different
> > "experimental" for gettext.
> 
> I'm not sure whether or not "experimental" is appropriate for gettext, then.

I'm sure experimental is appropriate for gettext, as long as we all are
sure that experimental is not appropriate to be put in CDs.

> Perhaps including project/experimental isn't such a good idea
> after all.

I agree.

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=5PU8
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Spamming people

[Rev. Joseph Carter]

On Tue, Apr 14, 1998 at 08:19:29PM -0700, boobileedoo wrote:

> please get someone to spam [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> and [EMAIL PROTECTED] plus get some one to spam
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] thanx

Why?  Isn't spamming supposed to be wrong?  What makes it wrong for people
to spam is if it's not wrong for us to spam them?


pgpi9HMf1ILXE.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Colored Shell

[Pat Quick]

I have had Linux on my machine before 
(Slackware) and had a shell that had different colors assigned by file 
type.  It was pretty nice.  I cannot find the shell that does this in 
the newest version of Debian.  Any suggestions.  Help on changing 
shells at login would be appreciated as well (I am a little rusty).
Thanks,
Pat Quick
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
OR
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (where I have 
subscribed to the News lists)

fltk and XForms compliance

[Shaleh]

The author has stated that this is no longer a goal of his library. 
Also, many of the XForms apps that we use would require modifications
because the author of fltk did not re-create anything that took an X
type as an argument (like XEvent).  It is possible to make the XForm
apps work w/ fltk, however it would be a better idea to contact the
authors and see if they would port their apps to fltk.  fltk is smaller
and from what little I have played w/ it -- nicer.  There is only one
other small problem to over come. The author does not like to use shared
libs and does not ship with make files to do this.  Should not be hard
but it is something to consider.
-- 
---
How can you see, when your mind is not open?
How can you think, when your eyes are closed?
- Jason Bonham Band, "Ordinary Black and White"
---


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elvis package

[Martin Mitchell]

I will take over the orphaned elvis package, unless someone else has already
said they'll do it.

Martin.


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Re: *** The Upcoming Release of Hamm ***

[Brian White]

> > So, when will Hamm be released?  You decide.  It's up to the devolpers
> > to set the date by fixing the problems that are currently holding up
> > the release.  As soon as the last release-necessary bug gets closed or
> > downgraded, we'll probably be ready to ship.
> 
> Can I propose the following ?  When we get into this state we announce
> an `early beta' and delay the release for at least a further two weeks
> to see if any more release-necessary bugs arise, or if there is
> discussion about the status of a bug.

That's a good idea.  I'll talk with the testing group and see when they
think this would be feasable.

  Brian
 ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] )

---
In theory, theory and practice are the same.  In practice, they're not.



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Re: *** The Upcoming Release of Hamm ***

[Brian White]

> > So, when will Hamm be released?  You decide.  It's up to the devolpers
> > to set the date by fixing the problems that are currently holding up
> > the release.  As soon as the last release-necessary bug gets closed or
> > downgraded, we'll probably be ready to ship.
> 
> Brian: I would like to have an exception mechanism so that bugs which
> cannot be fixed before release and which you determine not to be
> necessary to be fixed can be ignored without having to downgrade them.
> 
> For example, you downgraded the dpkg dependency calculation problem
> (#1797) from `grave' to `normal' by someone.  It is definitely grave
> (as defined), but I agree we should not hold up the release of bo for
> it.
> 
> This can probably be done by just having you maintain a small
> exception list.

Yeah.  I always figured this was going to have to be done.  Unfortunately
it weakens the importance some maintainers will put on the bug because
they figure "I'll just get it excluded..."

To counter this, I'm not even going to take recommendations for this list
until the system is otherwise ready to ship.  And then I'll only allow
it in cases where it really wasn't possible to fix the bug in the time
given.  It's a wishy-washy/touchy-feeling kind of judgement, which I
truely hate because it isn't "obvious" to everyone else, but I think
it's the only way.  My advice to anyone who's thinking their bug will
get included on that list:  don't count on it. 

  Brian
 ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] )

---
Premature optimization is the root of all evil.  -- Donald Knuth


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Re: intent to package Netscape Communicator

[Brian White]

> >> Another thing to note...  Dpkg won't let you build part of a package or
> >> assign different version numbers to different .deb files created from
> >> the same source.  (At least, I've never been able to get it to do so.)
> 
> You certainly can do that, check out bash/libreadline for instance.

Hmmm...  Okay.  When netscape and netscape-beta were different packages,
I couldn't build only was as long as both descriptions were in the control
file.

I thought I'd also tried at one point to build different .debs with
different versions numbers, but perhaps I just wasn't doing things
correctly.

  Brian
 ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] )

---
 The squeaky wheel doesn't always get the grease.  Sometimes it gets replaced.


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Re: intent to package Netscape Communicator

[Brian White]

> > Another thing to note...  Dpkg won't let you build part of a package or
> > assign different version numbers to different .deb files created from
> > the same source.  (At least, I've never been able to get it to do so.)
> 
> Will this be nescessary?  The libc5 thing is only temporary, and I don't have
> to do it, since we are moving into the future, which is libc6.

It happens.  Suppose new a new v4 package is released or new v5 source.  If
you wanted to re-build, then you would also be forced to rebuild _all_
packages mentioned in the control file, including the installer packages.

I've got an outstanding bug report about this (I asked if the error could
be reduced to a warning).


> > Are you looking to be able to install multiple versions of netscape or
> > just one at a time?  I considered the former when I build the netscape4
> > package, but decided it was for more trouble than it was worth.
> 
> I plan on being able to have navigator4 and communicator4, both static and
> motif, coexist.  I will have to test it with netscape3, however.

That makes things much more difficult, I found.


> > The ns-install is nice for the installer script, but not so good for 
> > building
> > packages since you don't know where it stores the debian/tmp/... paths in
> > its files.
> 
> The ns-install script doesn't store any paths in any files.  They are probably
> already stored in the .nif files by netscape.  I will most likely be getting
> around the problem with symlinks.  Anyone see any problems with that?

What symlinks do you mean?

  Brian
 ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] )

---
 measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe, hope like hell



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Re: Debian Bug#20445 disagree

[Brian White]

> > Why don't we include selected directories from there on the official
> > CD (I think of gettext (ouch, don't beat me), 2.1.x software, ...)?
> 
> gettext is in experimental so that it will *not* be included in CDs...
> 
> If we start putting experimental things in CDs, then we should create
> another distribution "really-experimental", since experimental
> seems not to be "safe" enough...

I don't think there would be a problem.  Project/experimental is not
searched by dselect & friends, so the only way it can be installed is someone
cd'ing there and running dpkg by hand.

  Brian
 ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] )

---
   He who laughs last usually make a backup.



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Re: Debian Bug#20445 disagree

[Brian White]

> > From a logical point of view, I think project/experimental is the best
> > choice. Why don't we include selected directories from there on the official
> > CD (I think of gettext (ouch, don't beat me), 2.1.x software, ...)?
> 
> Project/experimental is not part of hamm.

Yes.  That's exactly my point.  I don't want these packages to be "part
of Hamm" since they won't run on a stock Hamm system.

The main (only?) concern is about including these on the CD.  If we were
to include "project/experimental" on the CD, they those packages would be
there.

As release manager, I don't have a problem including project/experimental
as long as there is room.

The choices are:  don't ship them, ship them in contrib, or ship them
in project/experimental.

My preference would be the first or the third, but I'll allow the second.

  Brian
 ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] )

---
 Generated by Signify v1.04.  For this and more, visit http://www.verisim.com/



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Re: Debian Bug#20445 disagree

[Brian White]

> Marcus, I was just clarifying (once more) the status of gettext in Debian.
> 
> It is in experimental because the author asked me not to distribute it
> "widely". This means that even if it is not accesable by dselect, we
> should not put it on CDs yet.

Ah.  I had forgotten that.


> If a package being in "experimental" does not implicitly mean "not to be
> distributed in CDs", then we would need definitely another different
> "experimental" for gettext.

I'm not sure whether or not "experimental" is appropriate for gettext, then.
An alternative would be to place the packagen on a web site somewhere and
remove it from the Debian ftp site altogether.

Of course, there are also possibly (probably) non-free packages that sit in
project experimental and so we couldn't just include that directory as-is
anyway.  Perhaps including project/experimental isn't such a good idea
after all.

  Brian
 ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] )

---
In theory, theory and practice are the same.  In practice, they're not.


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Re: dictd and wordnet

[Andreas Tille]

On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Jean Pierre LeJacq wrote:

> Actually, /usr/share/dict.  Shouldn't new package be constructed from
> the start to use FHS?
I think so and my favourite directory is 

  /usr/share/dict/wordnet

> What format are these files in?  Are they ASCII?  The reason I ask is
> that I'm the maintainer of the cracklib package that uses lists of
> words to prevent the selection of easily guessed passwords.  If the
> wordnet database is in a suitable format, it may make an excellect
> source or words for cracklib.
Yes there are some ASCII databases which *may be* usefull for your
purpose.  The index files are interesting for you.  They contain after
a header where each line starts with two blanks an alphabetical list
of words.  Each word is in one line followed by some digits which you
can ignore.

Regards

Andreas. 


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Re: dictd and wordnet

[Andreas Tille]

On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Bob Hilliard wrote:

>  I'm also a new maintainer, and dictd is my first package, so it's
> doubtful that I could give you much help, but I'll be glad to try if
> you have problems.  You should subscribe to debian-mentors, if you
> haven't already.  A number of very experienced developers read that
> list and are very quick to respond with helpful answers.
OK, I'll do that.
 
>  The old WordNet packages used usr/lib/wordnet/dict/.  I believe
This seemed me a bad choice and so I wanted to change it.

> either /usr/lib/dict/ or /usr/lib/dict/wordnet/ (since wordnet installs
The last choice /usr/lib/dict/wordnet is possibly the best one in my
opinion.

> about 25 files, it could justify its own subdirectory) would be
> appropriate.  As far as I can see, all three of these choices would
> conform to the FSSTND.  When we move to the FHS, I believe they would
> go into /usr/share.
Hmm, so we should think about using /usr/share from the beginning because
hamm is frozen and will not contain wordnet ( :-( ) and 2.1 will 
move to FHS.

That would mean that the wordnet dictionaries should go into
  /usr/share/dict/wordnet
right?

Regards

   Andreas.


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Re: dictd and wordnet

[Jean Pierre LeJacq]

On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Bob Hilliard wrote:

> > Would you think that /usr/lib/dict is an appropriate directory for
> > the Wordnet database (the filenames didn't conflict!).
> 
>  The old WordNet packages used usr/lib/wordnet/dict/.  I believe
> either /usr/lib/dict/ or /usr/lib/dict/wordnet/ (since wordnet installs
> about 25 files, it could justify its own subdirectory) would be
> appropriate.  As far as I can see, all three of these choices would
> conform to the FSSTND.  When we move to the FHS, I believe they would
> go into /usr/share.

Actually, /usr/share/dict.  Shouldn't new package be constructed from
the start to use FHS?

What format are these files in?  Are they ASCII?  The reason I ask is
that I'm the maintainer of the cracklib package that uses lists of
words to prevent the selection of easily guessed passwords.  If the
wordnet database is in a suitable format, it may make an excellect
source or words for cracklib.

-- 
Jean Pierre



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Re: where can i get debhelper and lintian

[Bob Hilliard]

Martin Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> They're part of the distribution - hamm.  The newest lintian is in
> the incoming since yesterday - and installed on master+va.

 IIRC, Christian's message yesterday said the newest lintian was
in slink, not hamm.  I downloaded it from slink on ftp.debian.org
yesterday.

Bob
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  |_) (_) |_)  Palm City, FL  USAPGP Key ID: A8E40EB9


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Re: dictd and wordnet

[Bob Hilliard]

Hi, 
 You wrote:

> I'm in the process of becomming a Debian maintainer.  Unfortunately this
> process isn't finished since two weeks (may be it is delayed because of
> the efforts in the upcomming hamm release).  I would like to maintain
> wordnet than.  But may be I would need your help because it is my first
> serious package (I don't consider xteddy to be serious but only for the
> sake of learning maintaining a package).

 I'm also a new maintainer, and dictd is my first package, so it's
doubtful that I could give you much help, but I'll be glad to try if
you have problems.  You should subscribe to debian-mentors, if you
haven't already.  A number of very experienced developers read that
list and are very quick to respond with helpful answers.

> Would you think that /usr/lib/dict is an appropriate directory for
> the Wordnet database (the filenames didn't conflict!).

 The old WordNet packages used usr/lib/wordnet/dict/.  I believe
either /usr/lib/dict/ or /usr/lib/dict/wordnet/ (since wordnet installs
about 25 files, it could justify its own subdirectory) would be
appropriate.  As far as I can see, all three of these choices would
conform to the FSSTND.  When we move to the FHS, I believe they would
go into /usr/share.
  
Regards,

Bob
-- 
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  |_) (_) |_)  Palm City, FL  USAPGP Key ID: A8E40EB9


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Re: MGL graphics library freed!

[Enrique Zanardi]

On Thu, Apr 16, 1998 at 12:38:59PM +0100, Luis Francisco Gonzalez wrote:
> Enrique Zanardi wrote:
> > SciTech, the producers of MGL (a graphics library used to develop games
> > like Hexen II and Quake for Windows) have decided to make that library
> > "open source software", by changing its license to a derivative of the
> > MPL. (See their note at the GGI mail-list:
> > http://www.ggi-project.org/mailinglist/apr98/288.html )
> > 
> > They are asking for comments on their license. If you are interested,
> > you can find it at:
> > http://www.scitechsoft.com/mgl-license.txt
> > 
> > Anyone willing to debianize that stuff?
> I had a look at the license and there are restrictions on the distribution of
> modified versions. Seems to me, it'd go into non-free.

Sure? I haven't read it thoroughly, but section 2.1 allows distribution
of the original source code, with or without modifications. And section
3.6 allows distribution of executables. Am I missing something?

(Also, this license is not so different from the MPL, so I would be
surprised to see some "non-freeness" in it).
--
Enrique Zanardi[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Anyone want to make a Debian XDM login screen?

[Wichert Akkerman]

Previously Brian Mays wrote:
> There is an easy way to get this button on your screen, assuming that you
> have the TCL/TK packages installed.

I've done the same thing (using Motif), but added a confirmation check..
I've found that when I move the mouse or press a mousebutton when the
screen is in powersaving can have very disconcerting effects with a
reset-button out there..

Wichert.

-- 
==
This combination of bytes forms a message written to you by Wichert Akkerman.
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW: http://www.wi.leidenuniv.nl/~wichert/


pgpE2wNkgh8hQ.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Dumping core: root vs. normal user

[Darren/Torin/Who Ever...]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

Eloy A. Paris, in an immanent manifestation of deity, wrote:
>an easy one: why when root runs a program that faults core is not
>dumped but when a normal user runs the same program a core is dumped?

My educated guess on this is that there could be sensitive data in the
root core dump.  I remember this was true on some unix I've worked on in 
the past, but I can't remember which one.

Darren
- -- 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
Darren Stalder/2608 Second Ave, @282/Seattle, WA 98121-1212/USA/+1-800-921-4996
@ Sysadmin, webweaver, postmaster for hire.  C/Perl/CGI programmer and tutor. @
@Make a little hot-tub in your soul.  @

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Re: Uploaded timidity-patches 0.1-3 (source all) to master

[Riku Voipio]

On Thu, Apr 16, 1998 at 04:37:31AM +1000, Martin Mitchell wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> 
> Format: 1.5
> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 02:20:12 +1000
> Source: timidity-patches
> Binary: timidity-patches

Uhh... Is the copyright surely clear? I remember that 4-front tech was
nearly sued for distributing stuff only mentioned for GUS ownners...

Riku Voipio


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Re: MGL graphics library freed!

[Luis Francisco Gonzalez]

Enrique Zanardi wrote:
> SciTech, the producers of MGL (a graphics library used to develop games
> like Hexen II and Quake for Windows) have decided to make that library
> "open source software", by changing its license to a derivative of the
> MPL. (See their note at the GGI mail-list:
>   http://www.ggi-project.org/mailinglist/apr98/288.html )
> 
> They are asking for comments on their license. If you are interested,
> you can find it at:
>   http://www.scitechsoft.com/mgl-license.txt
> 
> Anyone willing to debianize that stuff?
I had a look at the license and there are restrictions on the distribution of
modified versions. Seems to me, it'd go into non-free.

Thanks,
Luis.
-- 
Luis Francisco Gonzalez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
PGP Fingerprint = F8 B1 13 DE 22 22 94 A1  14 BE 95 8E 49 39 78 76


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Re: Who has the dpkg source tree ?

[Michael Alan Dorman]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ian Jackson) writes:
> The third member of [EMAIL PROTECTED] is Michael Alan Dorman.  I
> haven't seen much from him recently (most recent message from him on
> debian-devel on the 30th of March).  Michael, are you there ?  Are you
> planning to put out a new dpkg release any time soon ?

Yes and yes.  I've got a tree that has, among other things,
debian-changelog.el working with the new emacs.  I need to integrate
the changes Miquel and Juan made.  I'm hoping that a temporary respite 
from RL this weekend will allow me to finish.

> When this is done and I have a libc6 development environment (which I
> don't atm) I want to get back into doing development - and
> particularly, bugfixing.

It could not be soon enough...:-)

Mike.


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Bug#21170: dpkg malfunction-unable to upgrade Debian

[jdassen]

You wrote:
>Apparently, it doesn't like version numbers in "Packages" which contain a
>colon. It stops at cdda2wav, because the version number contains ":".

That's the "epoch" feature, used in cases where the upstream version
numbering scheme changed, to make set dpkg's idea of which versions are
newer than others straight. 

>My old version of dpkg is 1.2.11 (i386 elf), I'm trying to install Debian
>1.3.1.

Your version of dpkg does not support epochs. You'll have to upgrade dpkg
with dpkg first (dpkg -i dpkg-from-1.3.1.deb) (if that doesn't work, do dpkg
--clear-avail, then dpkg -i dpkg-from-1.3.1.deb). After that upgrade, you
should be able to continue with dselect.

This information used to be in the upgrades/ directory on the FTP site, but
has apparently been removed.

HTH,
Ray
-- 
J.H.M. Dassen | RUMOUR  Believe all you hear. Your world may  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  | not be a better one than the one the blocks   
  | live in but it'll be a sight more vivid.  
  | - The Hipcrime Vocab by Chad C. Mulligan  


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Processed: foo

[Ian Jackson]

Processing commands for [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> reassign 21164 libc6
Bug#21164: Realtime lock in linuxthreads
Bug assigned to package `libc6'.

> reassign 21170 general
Bug#21170: dpkg malfunction-unable to upgrade Debian
Bug assigned to package `general'.

> reassign 21175 tix41
Bug#21175: Can't load Tix dynamically
Bug assigned to package `tix41'.

> thanks
Stopping processing here.

Please contact me if you need assistance.

Ian Jackson
(administrator, Debian bugs database)


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Lists archives outside debian.org

[jdassen]

There now appear to be a few search sites that cover a lot of mailing
lists:
http://www.reference.com/
and
http://www.findmail.com/
Both already have many major linux lists (like [EMAIL PROTECTED])
(for reference.com: search mailing list directory for "Linux"; for
findmail.com: see
http://www.findmail.com/lists/Computers/Operating%20Systems/Linux/), 
but neither archives the Debian lists.

I think it would be useful to archive the Debian lists there too (in
addition to our www.debian.org archive).

Greetings,
Ray
-- 
J.H.M. Dassen | RUMOUR  Believe all you hear. Your world may  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  | not be a better one than the one the blocks   
  | live in but it'll be a sight more vivid.  
  | - The Hipcrime Vocab by Chad C. Mulligan  


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Re: non-free licences

[Ronald Lembcke]

Hi!

Isn't mikmod free now?
>From sunsite: /apps/sound/players/mikmod-3.0.3.lsm
Copying-policy: Free, no strings attached

>From mikmod-3.0.3.tar.gz  license.txt:
MikMod is now under a "free-with-no-strings-attached-if-it-breaks-you-get-to-
keep-both-pieces" type of license.  Basically this means:

a) We're not responsible for anything you do with this program, anything
anything this program does to you, or for the little incident involving
the goat, the nun, and the jar of vasoline that occurred last summer.

b) We're not charging you anything for this.  You don't owe us anything.
On the other hand, we don't owe you anything, either.  Try to keep that in
mind when writing us...  We'd also prefer that, should you pass this program
on to friends, that you keep it free for them too.  And keep this message
intact as well.


This is open-source software.  That means the source code is free
for you to inspect and dissect, learn from, be disgusted by, whatever.
If you make any great additions to MikMod, we'd like to see them!

   - Peter Amstutz


So shouldn't mikmod be moved from non-free to main?


Roni  (IRC: _crash)


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MGL graphics library freed!

[Enrique Zanardi]

SciTech, the producers of MGL (a graphics library used to develop games
like Hexen II and Quake for Windows) have decided to make that library
"open source software", by changing its license to a derivative of the
MPL. (See their note at the GGI mail-list:
http://www.ggi-project.org/mailinglist/apr98/288.html )

They are asking for comments on their license. If you are interested,
you can find it at:
http://www.scitechsoft.com/mgl-license.txt

Anyone willing to debianize that stuff?

--
Enrique Zanardi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: where can i get debhelper and lintian

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Thu, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:35:44AM +0200, Julien Ortega wrote:
> A man told me about these package but i dont know where i can find them.
> 
> Are they far better than the debmake ?

debhelper is a replacement for debmake. Unlike debmake, debhelper
is composed of many different scripts; debmake is just one big program.
So you can use whichever parts of debhelper you want and not use
the other parts. Also, debmake has a history of not being fully
policy-compliant, although it has a new author now (Santiago)
who has rectified this problem I believe.

lintian is not a debmake replacement, but rather a package checker.
It looks for things in your package that violate or may violate
the Debian policy. You should get into the habit of running
lintian before uploading, because it's going to be run on uploaded
packages on master soon I understand.


hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5
CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome.   http://hamish.home.ml.org


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Re: where can i get debhelper and lintian

[Martin Schulze]

On Thu, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:35:44AM +0200, Julien Ortega wrote:
> A man told me about these package but i dont know where i can find them.

They're part of the distribution - hamm.  The newest lintian is in
the incoming since yesterday - and installed on master+va.

> Are they far better than the debmake ?

debhelper are better than debmake, yes, lintian is somehting 
else.

Regards,

Joey

-- 
  / Martin Schulze  *  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  *  26129 Oldenburg /
 / The MS-DOS filesystem is nice for removable media /
/ -- H. Peter Anvin /


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where can i get debhelper and lintian

[Julien Ortega]

A man told me about these package but i dont know where i can find them.

Are they far better than the debmake ?

-- 
Julien Ortega -- EXTERN
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: dictd and wordnet

[Andreas Tille]

On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Bob Hilliard wrote:

>  I had been thinking about taking over the wordnet packages, but you
> got there first, and I won't argue about it.  If you change your mind
> about them, let me know.
I'm in the process of becomming a Debian maintainer.  Unfortunately this
process isn't finished since two weeks (may be it is delayed because of
the efforts in the upcomming hamm release).  I would like to maintain
wordnet than.  But may be I would need your help because it is my first
serious package (I don't consider xteddy to be serious but only for the
sake of learning maintaining a package).
 
>  We must coordinate the location and name of the WordNet database
> file(s).  The dictd program installs them in /usr/lib/dict/wn.dict.dz
> and /usr/lib/dict/wn.index.  I doubt if that will conflict with the
> WordNet names and locations.  I plan to name the package containing
> the WordNet database "dict-wn", so there shouldn't be any further
> namespace conflicts.
I will have this in mind.  Would you think that /usr/lib/dict is an
appropriate directory for the Wordnet database (the filenames didn't
conflict!).
 
It is the first time that I have a deeper look at wordnet (this means
I used it about one year but never looked at it in detail).  So if
you have some experiences at if you expect serious trouble for a
beginner (not in C programming but in dictionary software) please
let me know.  In this case we should talk about the "better" maintainer.

Kind regards

Andreas.


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Re: assorted bugs in 2.0 install

[Alex Romosan]

>   I have now fixed this in my sources. I would appreciate a bug
> report on things like this, since it was mere happenstance that I
> noticed this message. Expect an upgrade in a day or so.
>
i was going to do this eventually, i just first wanted to see what
other people thought about this. i don't like to rush in and fill a
bug report just in case i turn out to be wrong.

--alex--

-- 
| I believe the moment is at hand when, by a paranoiac and active |
|  advance of the mind, it will be possible (simultaneously with  |
|  automatism and other passive states) to systematize confusion  |
|  and thus to help to discredit completely the world of reality. |


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hey

[seth]

hey dude do you have the qcrack 
code
 

Re: Anyone want to make a Debian XDM login screen?

[Brian Mays]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (David A. van Leeuwen) wrote:

> I'd opt for a `shutdown' button on the XDM login screen.

> Right now there isn't a simple way of bringing the machine down---as
> far as i know.  Even ctrl-alt-del doesn't work in XFree86.

> Of course, care should be taken that this can be done only from the
> console---if necessary, only after typing a shutdown password.

There is an easy way to get this button on your screen, assuming that you
have the TCL/TK packages installed.

Add the following seven lines to /etc/X11/xdm/Xsetup_0:

/usr/bin/wish < /var/run/xdmbutton.pid

and add the following line to /etc/X11/xdm/Xstartup_0:

if test -r /var/run/xdmbutton.pid; then kill `cat /var/run/xdmbutton.pid`; fi

This will pop up two buttons in the lower left corner of your screen.  The
"Halt" button will shut down your system, while the "Reboot" button will
reboot (useful if you also have Windows 95 *yuck* on your computer).

In my opinion, this is much more useful than Ctrl-Alt-Delete.

Brian


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Re: assorted bugs in 2.0 install

[Manoj Srivastava]

Hi,
>>"Alex" == Alex Romosan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Alex> we got 4 new computers running debian (1.3.1) and in the process
Alex> of upgrading them to 2.0 i found the following problems:

Alex> (1) kernel-package doesn't know how to deal with spaces before
Alex> the block devices in the /etc/fstab file. i know you would say
Alex> that not many people would run into this situtation, but
Alex> varesearch ships such an fstab file and the kernel-package was
Alex> totally confused by it. it took me a while too to figure out
Alex> what was happening. mount doesn't forbid spaces before the first
Alex> field so i think kernel-package should be able to deal with it.

I have now fixed this in my sources. I would appreciate a bug
 report on things like this, since it was mere happenstance that I
 noticed this message. Expect an upgrade in a day or so.

manoj
-- 
 "You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a
 reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating
 the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for
 independence." Beard
Manoj Srivastava  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E


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Re: *** The Upcoming Release of Hamm ***

[Manoj Srivastava]

Hi,
>>"Hartmut" == Hartmut Koptein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>> Can I propose the following ?  When we get into this state we
>> announce an `early beta' and delay the release for at least a
>> further two weeks to see if any more release-necessary bugs arise,
>> or if there is discussion about the status of a bug.

Hartmut> Make it harder! From now on no new upstream versions to
Hartmut> frozen. Cleaning Incoming. 1. May is 'early beta' and 1. June
Hartmut> is release time (to have some more time for arch maintainers
Hartmut> and testers).

On what basis have you decided that no pstrem bug fixes shall
 be allowed "from now on"? Seems to me, looking at the bugs out there,
 that we are not yet in a position to say "waaal, we almost have a
 good enough system, so let us not rock the boat anymore". 

The release date should be based on the state of the system,
 not on the calendar. The priority is quality, rather than a
 deadline. (I am not saying we allow upstream releases indefinitely; I
 am saying the reasons for moving to an early beta stage should be
 less arbitrary, and be based on a more solid technical ground).

manoj
-- 
 "Mind you, not as bad as the night Archie Pettigrew ate some sheep's
 testicles for a bet...God, that bloody sheep kicked him..." Ripping
 Yarns
Manoj Srivastava  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E


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Re: dpkg memory usage

[rick]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
> ...
> I also intend to change the format of the /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list
> database to make it faster to load, and I may change
> /var/lib/dpkg/status too.  (The resulting structures will still be
> editable with emacs.)

I've written a Regina REXX program to run some comparisons
between the dpkg/status file and current Packages (+non-free,
contrib, nonus) files. It currently shows which files need
updating, misconfigured packages, shows a deb's paragraph from
the Packages file. I think it would be useful to others. Would
anyone like to have a look at it and give me some feedback?

I have a few questions. 

Is the status file likely to change radically? Or the Packages
format?

Which program updates /var/lib/dpkg/available? I've been making
a Packages file by catting together all the Packages files
(non-free, ...) and putting the file in /tmp.

Can I, as root, make the dpkg/available file from this catted file
without screwing the package management up?

Thanks.

Rick
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dictd and wordnet

[Bob Hilliard]

Hi,

 This is in response to your message of Wed, 8 Apr 1998.  I
apologize for taking so long to get back to you.  

 As I said before, I am packaging dictd, containing the client
server software developed by the DICT Group.  There will be a number
of separate packages containing the dictionary databases used by the
server.  One of these is the WordNet 1.6 database.  The dictd server
is queried with a word, and returns all definitions of that word found
in the dictionaries available to it.  The most important of these is
the 1913 Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, which provides very lengthy
definitions, illustrated by quotations from literature.  Since the
1913 Webster is out of date (but also out of copyright), it is
supplemented by WordNet.  This provides some redundancy, but is very
comprehensive. 

 The dictd server does not use the special lexical/syntactical
organization of WordNet - it simply uses it as an alphabetized list
of words and definitions.  None of the WordNet software or
documentation is included in the dictd package of wordnet.

 The dict versions of the databases utilize a special .dz file
format, which is produced by the dictzip program.  This is a
compressed format that permits searching by decompressing only
relatively small portions of a large file.

 As far as I can see, the WordNet software would not work with the
database as formatted by dictd, and dictd would not work with the
WordNet database as distributed.  Therefore there would not be any
direct benefit to have the two packages maintained by the same person.
However, I think that most people who would use one would want to
install the other.  I currently use dict regularly, and will certainly
install the wordnet package on my machine.

 I had been thinking about taking over the wordnet packages, but you
got there first, and I won't argue about it.  If you change your mind
about them, let me know.

 We must coordinate the location and name of the WordNet database
file(s).  The dictd program installs them in /usr/lib/dict/wn.dict.dz
and /usr/lib/dict/wn.index.  I doubt if that will conflict with the
WordNet names and locations.  I plan to name the package containing
the WordNet database "dict-wn", so there shouldn't be any further
namespace conflicts.

 I have completed my packages dictd and dict, but will not release
them until I have the database packages ready.  The 1913 Webster is
held up because of a copyright problem, so I don't think I will be
able to release any of these packages before the end of this month.

Bob
-- 
   _
  |_)  _  |_   Robert D. Hilliard<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  |_) (_) |_)  Palm City, FL  USAPGP Key ID: A8E40EB9


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Re: dpkg memory usage

[Gregory S. Stark]

Ian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On `small memory' systems dpkg switches to a different data structure
> which is about twice as slow for general access on a big machine, but
> has a much smaller working set so is much faster for setup and access
> on small machines.  dpkg uses sysinfo(2) to guess which algorithm to
> use, and you can force one or the other using command line options.  I
> have checked this on a 3Mb system and it worked as expected.

You might want to tune the threshold upwards. At least on this 16M machine
--smallmem is noticeably faster and causes less disk thrashing.

> (The resulting structures will still be editable with emacs.)

Yay, of course everything is editable with emacs...

> It does ask the kernel to confirm that changes have been committed to disk
> before it continues.

Using fsync, you realize Linux's fsync implementation is to do a full sync.
It's probably the cause of much of the disk activity, but quite important.

Steve Dunham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I think a single text file would be noticably faster than a bunch of *.list
> files, but I don't know how much time is spent on I/O and how much is spent
> on building data structures in memory. (It would save the time of scanning
> the directory, opening and closing all the files.)

Opening files in a large directory can be extremely inefficient in many Unix
varieties. The kernel has to do a linear search for each the file. Linux 2.1
should be faster because of the dentry stuff, but even so it would be more
efficient to use a directory for each package with the various control files
inside.

greg


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Re: Who has the dpkg source tree ?

[Adam Heath]

On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Ian Jackson wrote:

> It will not have escaped the attention of the Project that dpkg hasn't
> been very well maintained of late.
> 
> Klee seems to have dropped out of sight; I presume he's too busy doing
> paid work or something.  I'm currently very busy with the leadership
> role and a couple of other free software programs (userv, about which
> I'll be giving a paper at the Linux Kongress, and sauce - `software
> against unsolicited commercial email', an as yet unreleased SMTP-receiver 
> with some
> totally fascist checking).
> 
> I think we need someone to coordinate getting releases out, making
> minor fixes (like the debian-changelog-mode.el thing), etc.

I am willing to do this.  I have already done a cvs co on the source.  I would
just need to have the ability to upload my changes.

> Whoever does this job I'd like them to fix minor and packaging bugs as
> maintainer (rather than non-maintainer) releases.  They'll be
> authorised to close bug reports they have included fixes for or which
> are obviously bogus.  They should accept simple patches to correct
> uncontroversial bugs from anyone, but anything else should be vetted
> by me or Klee, and only Klee or I should close nontrivial `mistaken'
> bug reports.

Doesn't sound too dificult.  I have started getting good as of late regarding
debian/rules et al(I am working on converting egcs debian/rules to debhelper,
without having anything special in the file(requires a few simple patches to
debhelper)).


Adam



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Re: Anyone want to make a Debian XDM login screen?

[Joey Hess]

Raul Miller wrote:
> > I've several times been very glad ctrl-alt-del did not work in X. You see,
> > my main server is often in X, another computer here isn't, and I typically
> > get the keyboards confused and breath a huge sigh of relief when I realize X
> > ignored the ctrl-alt-del.
> 
> That can be configured by people who need it.  
> 
> To turn off ctrl-alt-del for non-x you edit /etc/inittab

I don't think you understood what I said. I want ctrl-alt-del for non-X, but
adding it for X will cause problems.
 
-- 
see shy jo


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Re: Anyone want to make a Debian XDM login screen?

[Joey Hess]

David Welton wrote:
> With all due respect, this seems more like a matter of local
> configuration on your part rather than what the standard for Debian
> should be.  If we have decided that we want ctrl-alt-del to take the
> system down, then it should do it consistantly.

My point is that since it doesn't currently do that, changing it will
confuse people and possibly lead to bad results.

-- 
see shy jo


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