Re: Important: Non-maintainer release flame!

[Raul Miller]

Dermot John Bradley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I thought that a non-maintainer release was normally only done where
> either a security hole needed to be fixed quickly or where a serious
> problem existed with a package that the maintainer had not fixed for some
> time.

The previous version was non-dfsg, while the current version is dfsg,
this seems rather serious.

Anyways, as maintainer, your release takes precedence.  I'd enjoy
that someone wants to help.

[I hate to see eagerness get squashed, and that's what looks like
what's happening here, in several directions.]

-- 
Raul


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Important: Non-maintainer release flame!

[Dermot John Bradley]

Joel as you can see from the CC: headers above this email is going out to
more than just yourself. The point(s) I'm making below I consider to be
important to the Debian project as a whole.

As can be seen from bug #23367, you sent me an email to tell me there was
a newer version of gd than the most recent one I had released (as libgd,
libgd-altdev, libgd1g, and libgd1g-dev). In the reply I sent to you I
mentioned that I had only recently become aware of this new versionm and
was in the process of preparing a package of it.

I now see that you have uploaded a non-maintainer release of this new
version to master.debian.org! To be blunt I'm pissed about this...indeed
this is *not* the first time someone has decided to do a non-maintainer
release of one of the packages I've been working on without checking with
me first.

I thought that a non-maintainer release was normally only done where
either a security hole needed to be fixed quickly or where a serious
problem existed with a package that the maintainer had not fixed for some
time.


At this point in time I'm seriously considering if I want to remain a
Debian developer if people are going to continue to tinker with and
release updated versions of packages I'm maintaining without contacting me
first.

I know - why don't I decide to do a non-maintainer release of libc6 :-)

At this stage I wondering whether I should drop work on all my packages
(both released and unreleased) and either become just a Debian user or
maybe even move over to a different distribution...


Ian, should non-maintainer releases be allowed into frozen/unstable
without checking with the maintainer first?

-- 
Dermot Bradley
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Stop vi discussion

[john]

I wrote:
> Vi and emacs should be able to use any editor.

That should read 'Vi and emacs users should be able to use any editor.'
   ^
I can't get my wife to try anything but vi, though.
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI


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Re: Building a connection with Kachina Tech.

[James A . Treacy]

> > What do people think of creating a new ftp directory called say,
> > "sci"?  Many of the packages in Scientific Applications for Linux
> > don't fit cleanly into "math".
> > 
> 
> I would leave it the way it is.  "Scientific" is not well defined.  To a 
> certain extent it's not defined at all.
> 
A good percentage of the software under Math is stuff you
use in doing numerical analysis or scientific computations
(the terms you use usually depend more on your background than
what you are doing). Numerical Software is a much better name.

Jay Treacy


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Need artistic type to create a Debian ad for LJ

[James A . Treacy]

In making enquiries to LJ about the cost of advertising,
Debian was given an offer of 2 one-half page ads if
we do some work on some Linux docs that the LJ is
maintaining. This is an opportunity we shouldn't
let pass.

We are looking for a person, or a group of people,
who are willing to work on the ad. If you can help with
this in any way, please subscribe to debian-publicity
and tell us what you can do.

If you have some time to do some work on the documentation
(it should be a one shot deal), contact Igor Grobman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> to help out.

Jay Treacy


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Re: Building a connection with Kachina Tech.

[G John Lapeyre]

To the extent that I have a goal in Debian , its packaging these
things (I've already done three or four) . For the time being, I am
putting it all in 'math'. We may want to change the name or granularity at
some point, if packging these things really takes off.  I agree that 'sci'
would be a better description than 'math'.

On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Alexander Kushnirenko wrote:

> Hi, Johnie!
> > 
> > Some SAL classifications include chemistry, biology, artificial
> > intelligence, physics, astronomy, relational DBMS, parallel computing,
> > geographic information systems, and scientific data processing and
> > visualization, some of which are poorly described by "math". 
> > 
> Agreed.  But perhaps putting all of that in "math" is as good solution as 
> putting it all in "sci".  Maybe finer granularity would do it, but I don't 
> know what are the consequences of that.  Perhaps I don't quite realise the 
> problem :)
> 
> Sasha.
> 
> 
> --  
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> 

John Lapeyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Tucson,AZ http://www.physics.arizona.edu/~lapeyre


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Re: RETRACTED msql 2.0.3-4

[Remco Blaakmeer]

On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Santiago Vila wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> 
> On 14 Jun 1998, Guy Maor wrote:
> 
> > passwd is required and that is enough.  You can assume that all
> > required packages are always on the system.
> 
> I disagree. Since you are able to remove a required-but-non-essential
> package and dpkg does not complain, required-but-non-essential packages
> are not guaranteed to be always on the system.

Yes, I think you are right.

> > So it's fine if the preinst just calls useradd without any checks or
> > predependencies.
> 
> I thought that only the essential flag allows a Dependency or
> Predependency to be missing. Is this a bug in the policy manual?

It might be a bug in Guy's interpretation of the policy manual. :-)

Remco


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Re: Building a connection with Kachina Tech.

[Alexander Kushnirenko]

Hi, Johnie!
> 
> Some SAL classifications include chemistry, biology, artificial
> intelligence, physics, astronomy, relational DBMS, parallel computing,
> geographic information systems, and scientific data processing and
> visualization, some of which are poorly described by "math". 
> 
Agreed.  But perhaps putting all of that in "math" is as good solution as 
putting it all in "sci".  Maybe finer granularity would do it, but I don't 
know what are the consequences of that.  Perhaps I don't quite realise the 
problem :)

Sasha.


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Re: Whereis lmemroot.bin

[Micha Kersloot]

Enrique Zanardi wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 01:21:22PM +0200, Micha Kersloot wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I've got a question. Where is lmemroot.bin for hamm ??
> 
> It wasn't built in boot-floppies version 2.0.6 because of problems with
> libc6 and floppy disk capacity. boot-floppies 2.0.7 will have a slightly
> different method for low-mem systems.

Well, I'll have to wait then :-) I'm now trying to install 1.3 on an
bluenote laptop. I will try hamm later then.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groet

Micha Kersloot

KovoKs Automatiseringspartner
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Building a connection with Kachina Tech.

[Johnie Ingram]

"Alexander" == Alexander Kushnirenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Alexander> I would leave it the way it is.  "Scientific" is not well
Alexander> defined.  To a certain extent it's not defined at all.

Some SAL classifications include chemistry, biology, artificial
intelligence, physics, astronomy, relational DBMS, parallel computing,
geographic information systems, and scientific data processing and
visualization, some of which are poorly described by "math". 

Lucky we already have "electronics."  :-)

Someone already suggested a DBMS section, and having a dir for "perl
stuff" might not be a bad idea either

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   __ _Debian GNU Johnie Ingram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  mm   mm
  / /(_)_ __  _   ___  __"netgod" irc.debian.org  mm mm
 / / | | '_ \| | | \ \/ / m m m
/ /__| | | | | |_| |>  <  Yes, I'm Linus, and I am your God. mm   mm
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Re: apt and hamm

[Bob Hilliard]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Adam P. Harris) writes:
> Bob Hilliard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >  There is a README for autoup.sh on
> > {ftp|http}://debian.vicnet.net.au/autoup/.
> > 
> >  Both the README and autoup.sh should have a separate (simplified)
> > version for use on the CD.  (For instance, the script doesn't have to
> > be interactive on the CD.)  The CD versions will be quick and easy to
> > write, but can't be written until we know exactly where on the disk
> > autoup.sh is located, and path to the hamm files.
> > 
> >  If Igor wanted to incorporate the autoup.sh README in
> > install.txt, that would eliminate the need to include it as a separate
> > file on the CD
> 
> Interesting.  Apparently, there's going to be coverage of these topics
> in the release notes, not the install.sgml document.
> 
> Volunteers?  I'm a bit overcommitted ;)

 I wrote the autoup.sh README, and have always expected to update it
for the CD and for the ftp archives and web page when hamm is stable.
Either Craig or I could update autoup.sh pretty quickly, once the
structure of the CD is established.  I would prefer to have Craig do
the autoup.sh update, since he doesn't always agree with my
modifications.  

 I will be out of town after tomorrow for about a week, so I won't
be able to do anything on the README before then, but I don't think
2.0 will be released before then.

Bob
-- 
   _
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Re: List of bugs that *must* be fixed before releasing Hamm

[Brian White]

> > The following bug reports *must* be fixed before the current frozen Debian
> > distribution can progress further in its development cycle.  Reminders have
> > been sent to the maintainers of these packages yet nothing has been done to
>  
> > remedy these bugs.
>   ^
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> > xbase 22329  Patch for #20685 prevents talk working [34]  
> > (Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
> > xbase 22668  TERM=xterm meaning has changed incompatibly [25]  
> > (Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
> > xbase 22877  xbase: xdm port, and X applications [0]  (Branden 
> > Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
> > xbase 22928  New upstream security fix release [18]  (Branden 
> > Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
> > xbase 23002  Problem With Fresh Install [16]  (Branden Robinson 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
> > xlib6g23122  typo in debian/rules [11]  (Branden Robinson 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
> > xlib6g23274  xlib6g: Upgrading to 3.3.2.1-1 breaks keyboard [0] 
> >  (Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
> > xlib6g23441  xlib6g is not thread-safe [0]  (Branden Robinson 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
> 
> Please watch your generalizations.  I am working on all of these and in
> fact made a test build of 3.3.2.2-1 yesterday.  It upsets me when the
> implication is made that I am sitting on my hands.

You are quite correct.  That is a leftover from when the bug list was
not being regenerated and so only had old bugs in it.  I'll remedy this
immediately.

  Brian
 ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] )

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Re: Bug#23404 and #23433: mysql-server: seg faults

[Norbert Veber]

On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 07:20:09PM +0200, Scott Hanson wrote:
> I have two bug reports of the mysql daemon seg faulting on startup on
> hamm (or mostly hamm) systems, one for the hamm package
> (3.21.25gamma-4) and the other for the more current slink package
> (3.21.30-2). I can neither reproduce nor explain the seg faults, both
> packages run for me on 3 different systems.
> 
> mysql-server uses both pthreads and c++. Have there been any recent
> changes to either pthreads or to egcs/libstdc++2.8 that could be
> causing problems?
> 
> Is anyone else have seg fault problems with mysql? 
> 
> Thanks for any help,
> 
> Scott (clueless in Jesteburg... :-)

I dont know if this is the problem, but I've had problems with pthreads and
libc6.  For some reason, certain binaries (that use pthreads) will be linked
against both libc5 and libc6 (on some systems).  Get the people who reported
the bugs to run ldd on mysql, and see if that is the problem.  When a binary
is linked against both libc5 and 6, it will segfault immediately, so the
symptmps are the same.  

As far as fixing this: I have no idea as to why this happens or how to fix it
:)



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Re: Building a connection with Kachina Tech.

[Branden Robinson]

On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 04:07:11PM -0400, Alexander Kushnirenko wrote:
> Hi,
> > 
> > What do people think of creating a new ftp directory called say,
> > "sci"?  Many of the packages in Scientific Applications for Linux
> > don't fit cleanly into "math".
> > 
> 
> I would leave it the way it is.  "Scientific" is not well defined.  To a 
> certain extent it's not defined at all.

I think that's a reckless assertion.  In any case, judging by what's
already in the distribution, "research computing" software seems to be
fairly distinct from everything else.

-- 
G. Branden Robinson |  Reality is what refuses to go away when
Purdue University   |  I stop believing in it.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  -- Philip K. Dick
http://www.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ |


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Re: Building a connection with Kachina Tech.

[Alexander Kushnirenko]

Hi,
> 
> What do people think of creating a new ftp directory called say,
> "sci"?  Many of the packages in Scientific Applications for Linux
> don't fit cleanly into "math".
> 

I would leave it the way it is.  "Scientific" is not well defined.  To a 
certain extent it's not defined at all.

Sasha.



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Re: Bug#23436: vrwave should maybe go in contrib?

[Remco Blaakmeer]

On Sat, 13 Jun 1998, Javier Fernandez-Sanguino Pen~a wrote:

> 
>   Well, vrwave only needs a java runtime environment to run. The
> dependancies I've marked are related to jdk 1.1 (jdk1.1-runtime) or jdk
> 1.0.2 (jdk-shared OR jdk-static). Alas, I sent a mail to wnpp because I
> don't like this either, I would prefer a "Depends: java (=> 1.0.2)" and
> let the package manager figure out if the dependancy is fulfilled with any
> version of Java runtime you have.

You can't do that because of a limitation in dpkg. If a package Provides:
java and another package Depends: java (=> 1.0.2), the former package can
never satisfy this dependency. To satisfy this versioned dependency,
you'll have to have a package that is actually called "java" and has
version 1.0.2 or higher.

>   AFAIK there are other runtime environments (kaffee?) that would go
> into "main", but since there is no virtual package as of now, and I really
> haven't tried it with these (maybe you could help?) the Dependancies are
> as shown.

It might work, but until there is a free runtime java environment in main,
vrwave can't go into main. If it doesn't run (or compile, for that matter)
without one or more packages that are currently not in main, the package
can't go into main.

>   I hope this situation would change, since vrwave can go in main
> without any problem. Either way I would have to ask to be moved into
> contrib (which I wouldn't like at all).

I'd think contrib is the only solution for now. As soon as there is a free
runtime java environment in main and vrwave works with it, vrwave can be
moved from contrib into main.

Remco


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Re: Building a connection with Kachina Tech.

[Johnie Ingram]

"Alexander" == Alexander Kushnirenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Alexander> So perhaps if you are going to work with them you could let
Alexander> them know about Packages in Debian and they may want to
Alexander> update there Web Page.  I know that many of my colleagues
Alexander> use this page to find necessary products.

What do people think of creating a new ftp directory called say,
"sci"?  Many of the packages in Scientific Applications for Linux
don't fit cleanly into "math".

-  PGP  E4 70 6E 59 80 6A F5 78  63 32 BC FB 7A 08 53 4C
 
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  / /(_)_ __  _   ___  __"netgod" irc.debian.org  mm mm
 / / | | '_ \| | | \ \/ / m m m
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Re: Building a connection with Kachina Tech.

[Alexander Kushnirenko]

Hi,
> 

> Kachina Technologies is strongly interested in Debian Sparc for the
> hardware they distribute. They are offering resources for this effort with
> the goal being a "commercial" grade Debian distribution.
> 

I have a little comment which is not quite you were asking for.  But perhaps 
it could be useful for Debian advertisements.

Kachina Tech supports WWW site "Scientific Applications for Linux"  which is 
an excellent resource about existing Linux products.

http://SAL.KachinaTech.COM/ 

They also put inforamtion about product being packaged in Debian or RedHat.  
Debian part is very outdated.  They put "Do Debian Package" for products that 
are packaged for quite some time.

So perhaps if you are going to work with them you could let them know about 
Packages in Debian and they may want to update there Web Page.  I know that 
many of my colleagues use this page to find necessary products.

Sasha.


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Re: Bug#23522: man-db installs foreign language manpages

[Fabrizio Polacco]

On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 10:59:13AM +0200, Peter Maydell wrote:
> 
> Fabrizio Polacco wrote:
> >If you don't reassign this bug to dpkg or apt, I will close it in two
> >days (as later I will be busy).
> 
> 
> Oi! I'm an end user (OK, so I browse debian-devel :->). I'm not supposed
> to have to know how to manipulate the bug tracking system. I agree that
> man-db might not be the right place for this bug report, but I wasn't
> sure where to file bugs against programs that don't exist (our hypothetical
> language management tool) so I picked the only package on my system with
> multiple-language manpages. If you don't think it's filed against the
> right package, it's *your* responsibility as a developer to reassign
> it to the right place.
> 

Sorry for the nasty lines. Please read them as:
If you are interested in reassigning this bug to dpkg, do it within the
next two days as I don't want to leave this bug in man-db as I will take
a plane on thursday :-)
I myself am not interested to do the reassignement because there are
already bugs opened and apt has promised to solve this question. When
apt will be released, if it will not solve that, you'll hear my voice.

> [In fact, I probably could reassign it, if I read the BTS documentation; 
> but as a point of principle you shouldn't ask me to :->]

Well the BTS is there to be used by debian users (as I am too) and is
not "private" territory of developers. It's simply a way of discussiong
in front of a working recorder.
I personally consider each bug as a "personal note" coming from a user,
and I usually ask them if they prefere to do changes to the bug by
themselves. The docs are not so plain (text only and in "reference"
format only), but they are already on your box, under /usr/doc/debian .


fab
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Re: Stop vi discussion

[Andreas Jellinghaus]

> [if not emacs or vi or ae,]
> > what then ?
> > joe.
> 
> How dare you come up with such a logical solution to the problem!  And how
> can you be so unfair as to include my favorite editor but not everyone
> else's?  heh.

joe is not my favorite editor. it's the first editor i could use on linux.
now i'm useing vim for everything. and i know lots of people who started
linux with useing joe, and then learned something better like vi or emacs.
go, and ask some people, that did not knew unix before they used linux,
ask them if they used joe. most did.

sure, people useing unix for > 10 years, joe mighjt not be nice.
but a boot floppy can't hold everything ...

> Also, joe vs. ae sizes according to dpkg may be an issue:
> 
> Installed-Size: 334
> Installed-Size: 83

i know. but there is also a small vi on the disk ? we can remove that one two.
not many small editors, but one that works.

for the abse system : AFAIK we have that disk space.
for the rescue disk: not all 334kb are essential.

andreas


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Re: Stop vi discussion

[Andreas Jellinghaus]

> Well, that's IMHO an idea worth worth studying.  When I first
> installed Linux, I was coming from DOS and Borland's editors, which
> joe mimics quite closely.

i know lots of people who came from DOS. know they use vi or emacs,
but they started useing linux with joe. they still know enought to use it 
in the worst case, and it will be far easier than if they don't know vi or
emacs.

> As a newbie, learning vi or emacs was not a short-term goal - I had to
> do some effective work rather than learning some new editor.  Later I
> learned emacs, but when starting I found joe to be a great compromise.

that's my reasoning : people learn vi or emacs later, when they are familiar
with unix/linux, but they start with something simple like joe.

i don't know jed, maybe it's better. but something like joe should be the
default editor.

every day i work with vim - and the current vi on the bootisk is a pain.
joe woule be a great improvement, even if it has different keystrokes.

andreas


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Re: List of bugs that *must* be fixed before releasing Hamm

[Wichert Akkerman]

Previously Branden Robinson wrote:
> Please watch your generalizations.  I am working on all of these and in
> fact made a test build of 3.3.2.2-1 yesterday.  It upsets me when the
> implication is made that I am sitting on my hands.

me too

A lot of those are really being worked upon. Several fixes have already
been made, some are sitting in incoming, some are still being discussed.
If you look at Richard Braakman's list you can see it's not as worse
Brian implies with his remark.

Wichert.


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Re: List of bugs that *must* be fixed before releasing Hamm

[Branden Robinson]

On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 09:19:30AM -0400, Brian White wrote:
> The following bug reports *must* be fixed before the current frozen Debian
> distribution can progress further in its development cycle.  Reminders have
> been sent to the maintainers of these packages yet nothing has been done to
 
> remedy these bugs.
  ^

Bullshit.

> xbase 22329  Patch for #20685 prevents talk working [34]  
> (Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
> xbase 22668  TERM=xterm meaning has changed incompatibly [25]  
> (Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
> xbase 22877  xbase: xdm port, and X applications [0]  (Branden 
> Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
> xbase 22928  New upstream security fix release [18]  (Branden 
> Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
> xbase 23002  Problem With Fresh Install [16]  (Branden Robinson 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
> xlib6g23122  typo in debian/rules [11]  (Branden Robinson <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]>)
> xlib6g23274  xlib6g: Upgrading to 3.3.2.1-1 breaks keyboard [0]  
> (Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
> xlib6g23441  xlib6g is not thread-safe [0]  (Branden Robinson 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)

Please watch your generalizations.  I am working on all of these and in
fact made a test build of 3.3.2.2-1 yesterday.  It upsets me when the
implication is made that I am sitting on my hands.

-- 
G. Branden Robinson |   We either learn from history or,
Purdue University   |   uh, well, something bad will happen.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |   -- Bob Church
http://www.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ |


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Re: Bug#23522: man-db installs foreign language manpages

[Raul Miller]

Scott Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We're increasingly of the opinion recently that any postinst questions are
> to be avoided.

But we still need the functionality.

The proper thing to do is provide an abstraction layer: both implementation
and access policy, which allows us to change the underlying mechanisms.

Of course, work of this scope is not relevant for hamm.

-- 
Raul


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ftp.debian.org/debian/indices/md5sums.gz

[Jens Ritter]

Hallo all, 

Does anybody know who generates this index?
(ftp.debian.org/debian/indices/md5sums.gz)

How often is it updated, what is in there?

e.g.:

zcat md5sums.gz | wc -l yields: 
   16618

find ! -path ./indices\* -a ! -path ./bo\* |wc -l  yields:
   11139

I currently write a programm which checks if a mirror only contains
valid files.

In desperate need for help.

Jens



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Re: Intent to package: webalizer

[Joel Klecker]

At 07:56 -0700 1998-06-13, Remco van de Meent wrote:
>Sounds reasonable. Though, in the copyright file of webalizer, the copyright
>text of GD (1.2!) has been included by webalizer's author. Is it still
>possible to have the webalizer-package in main instead of contrib?

Yes, the copyright file does make it clear that the gd section only applies
to the bundled copy of gd 1.2, the Debian package can omit that part, since
webalizer is linked against the Debian libgd.

> : Can you make the package available somewhere?
>
>Yes: http://www.xs4all.nl/~rvdmeent/debian/

Cool.

A bit of postinst work to provide functioning defaults for
/etc/webalizer.conf should be done, I suggest prompting for directory under
/var/www to use for output, using the local domain to seed the "HideSite"
and "HideReferrer", and the hostname and such. I also suggest a
/etc/cron.daily/webalizer file.
--
Joel "Espy" Klecker
Debian GNU/Linux Developer




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Re: Bug#23404 and #23433: mysql-server: seg faults

[Gergely Madarasz]

On 15 Jun 1998, Scott Hanson wrote:

> I have two bug reports of the mysql daemon seg faulting on startup on
> hamm (or mostly hamm) systems, one for the hamm package
> (3.21.25gamma-4) and the other for the more current slink package
> (3.21.30-2). I can neither reproduce nor explain the seg faults, both
> packages run for me on 3 different systems.
> 
> mysql-server uses both pthreads and c++. Have there been any recent
> changes to either pthreads or to egcs/libstdc++2.8 that could be
> causing problems?
> 
> Is anyone else have seg fault problems with mysql? 

It works for me (latest hamm + mysql from slink)

--
Madarasz Gergely   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry.
  Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni.
  HuLUG: http://www.cab.u-szeged.hu/local/linux/


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Bug#23404 and #23433: mysql-server: seg faults

[Scott Hanson]

I have two bug reports of the mysql daemon seg faulting on startup on
hamm (or mostly hamm) systems, one for the hamm package
(3.21.25gamma-4) and the other for the more current slink package
(3.21.30-2). I can neither reproduce nor explain the seg faults, both
packages run for me on 3 different systems.

mysql-server uses both pthreads and c++. Have there been any recent
changes to either pthreads or to egcs/libstdc++2.8 that could be
causing problems?

Is anyone else have seg fault problems with mysql? 

Thanks for any help,

Scott (clueless in Jesteburg... :-)

-- 
Scott Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Johmsweg 9, D-21266 Jesteburg, Germany


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Re: Stop vi discussion

[john]

andreas writes:
> ae is nice, if want a crippeled, but very small editor.

> what then ?
> joe.

Just tried it.  It's good enough for rescue disk use, but so is ae.  And
joe is way too big.  Anything that fits is ok on the rescue disk, as long
as the user knows it's there.

> joe is useable for vi users and emacs users...

Vi and emacs should be able to use any editor.

> ...(even if it's a pain)

You're not going to get carpal tunnel fixing a few config files.  As long
as a newbie can find it and figure out how to insert and delete characters
and save files, anything will do.  Anything *small*, that is.
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI


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Re: Whereis lmemroot.bin

[Enrique Zanardi]

On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 01:21:22PM +0200, Micha Kersloot wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I've got a question. Where is lmemroot.bin for hamm ??

It wasn't built in boot-floppies version 2.0.6 because of problems with
libc6 and floppy disk capacity. boot-floppies 2.0.7 will have a slightly
different method for low-mem systems. 

You will need two floppies: "lowmem.bin" (a boot disk image), and 
rescue1440.bin (or any other floppy containing root.bin).

boot-floppies 2.0.7 will be uploaded in a few days (I'm waiting for
reports on the stability of kernel v2.0.34).

--
Enrique Zanardi[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Bug#23436: vrwave should maybe go in contrib?

[Javier Fernandez-Sanguino Pen~a]

Well, vrwave only needs a java runtime environment to run. The
dependancies I've marked are related to jdk 1.1 (jdk1.1-runtime) or jdk
1.0.2 (jdk-shared OR jdk-static). Alas, I sent a mail to wnpp because I
don't like this either, I would prefer a "Depends: java (=> 1.0.2)" and
let the package manager figure out if the dependancy is fulfilled with any
version of Java runtime you have.

AFAIK there are other runtime environments (kaffee?) that would go
into "main", but since there is no virtual package as of now, and I really
haven't tried it with these (maybe you could help?) the Dependancies are
as shown.

I hope this situation would change, since vrwave can go in main
without any problem. Either way I would have to ask to be moved into
contrib (which I wouldn't like at all).

Javi

PD: I'm sending this to debian-devel as well so anybody else might discuss
this.   

On Fri, 12 Jun 1998, Mark Eichin wrote:

> Package: vrwave
> Version: 0.9-1
> 
> I just noticed this package, but though it is in Section: web, it
> Depends: jdk1.1-runtime | jdk-shared | jdk-static.  I don't know about
> the latter two, but jdk1.1-runtime is "non-free", therefore unless
> jdk-shared or jdk-static are free, vrwave must go in contrib, not
> main.
> 
> (If I'm confused, let me know - I'd like to put together a whole java
> environment that's truly "free" but too many people seem to think that
> sun's jdk is "free enough"...)
> 


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Re: Stop vi discussion

[Rev. Joseph Carter]

On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 09:38:16AM +0200, I mangled and reordered what
Andreas Jellinghaus wrote:

> you may flame me, but you have to write the flame with joe.

You asked for it...

~$ echo $EDITOR
joe
~$


[if not emacs or vi or ae,]
> what then ?
> joe.

How dare you come up with such a logical solution to the problem!  And how
can you be so unfair as to include my favorite editor but not everyone
else's?  heh.


Actually, there is one problem that I've had with a couple of programs
including joe..  Upon exit, occasionally the keyboard input will not be
echoed bach to you.  It'll still be accepted, it just won't display.  I use
screen, but it's not limited to screen that I've noticed.  It also happens
for me in X and in regular VT.  Output from bash, mutt, and joe all works
fine.  Going in to joe and exiting again doesn't fix it.

It's fixed by stty sane, which indicates that it's just something getting
set and not reset.  I can't say I know what causes it, but I've filed a bug
against joe about it.  If anyone else has had the problem, it would
definately need to be fixed for it to go in to base.


Also, joe vs. ae sizes according to dpkg may be an issue:

Installed-Size: 334
Installed-Size: 83


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Re: Bug#23457 acknowledged by developer (xexec is not present in menus!)

[Francesco Potorti`]

   >I do not  see it in  my wmaker menu.   I also looked under /etc/X11 in
   >some window manager's menus,  but none of  them contains references to
   >xexec under the xshells menu.
   
   Does your system have a Debian menu at all?  A Debian/XShells?  Does
   it contain other entries such as Rxvt or Xterm?

At the end of the file /etc/X11/olvwm/openwin-menu-debian I read:

"XShells"  MENU
"XShells"  TITLE
   "Command Tool"exec /usr/X11R6/bin/cmdtool
   "Shell Tool"exec /usr/X11R6/bin/shelltool
   "TkDesk"exec /usr/bin/X11/tkdesk
   "Xterm"exec xterm
"XShells"  END PIN
"Debian"  END PIN

I purged xexec and reinstalled it:

# dpkg -i xexec_0.0.3-6.deb
(Reading database ... 57038 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking xexec (from xexec_0.0.3-6.deb) ...
Setting up xexec (0.0.3-6) ...

Update-menus: waiting for dpkg to finish (forking to background)
Update-menus: (checking /var/lib/dpkg/lock)
# date
Mon Jun 15 17:33:58 CEST 1998
# ls -l /etc/X11/olvwm/
total 12
-rw-r--r--   1 root root 1117 Jan 15 09:47 openwin-menu
-rw-r--r--   1 root root 9584 Jun 15 17:33 openwin-menu-debian


but nothing changed :-(


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Re: bootstrap build environments

[Santiago Vila]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Raul Miller wrote:

> Is there anything like a cannonical list of packages that are needed for
> building a standard debian system?

We will have something like that as soon as we implement the new
"Source-Depends:" field. There was a discussion about this several months
ago in debian-policy, I think.

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Re: Bug#23457 acknowledged by developer (xexec is not present in menus!)

[Dale Scheetz]

On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Zed Pobre wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> 
> I'm CCing this to debian-devel to see if anyone else knows what could
> cause this.
> 
> The general problem is that for this user, xexec is not properly adding
> in the menu entry.  
> 
I have noticed for quite a while now that on my "pure" hamm system, I
can't get to the Debian menu (it is grey), and I have menu installed. What
else should I have installed? I am using olvwm as well.

I know this isn't quite the problem you are examining, but it might be
related...

Thanks,

Dwarf
--
_-_-_-_-_-   Author of "The Debian Linux User's Guide"  _-_-_-_-_-_-

aka   Dale Scheetz   Phone:   1 (850) 656-9769
  Flexible Software  11000 McCrackin Road
  e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL  32308

_-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_-


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Building a connection with Kachina Tech.

[Dale Scheetz]

I don't know how many of you saw the posting Nils made to debian-announce
a while back, so I will give some background:

Kachina Technologies is strongly interested in Debian Sparc for the
hardware they distribute. They are offering resources for this effort with
the goal being a "commercial" grade Debian distribution.

I have tentatively offered my services to coordinate the effort with the
Chief Operations Officer of Kachina Tech, Ward Deng. He immediately
provided me with a logon to one of their machines where the development
will commence, and has expressed a willingness to provide accounts for
anyone wishing to help with the project.

Kachina Technologies is willing to provide hardware resources and any
other help we might need to make this project a reality. They have even
offered heavily discounted (50%) prices on development machines for
"selected" developers.

I don't think I have to say too much about the advantages to Debian of
having a commercial company promote our product. With very little "proof"
of success, this company is willing to put its resources into this venture
in the hopes of gaining a Quality Product that they can use to increase
the value of their Customer Solutions. We can only benefit by their
success.

At this point I am primarily interested in who, in the Debian community,
is willing to contribute to this project? My interest falls into three
catagories:

1. Anyone currently maintaining a SPARC package.

2. Anyone who has ever worked on a SPARC before.

3. Anyone who feels they are ready to learn about SPARC systems.

These are listed in priority, but the project will need help from varying
levels of skill, so an interest is more important than a skill. (This is
not meant to reduce the importance of skills ;-)

If there is enought interest from the group, I will commit to the
coordinator's job, and we can begin work.

The first task will be to convert the current development machine from
RedHat to Debian...

Please contact either myself or Ward Deng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> if you
have an interest in contributing to this effort.

Waiting is,

Dwarf
--
_-_-_-_-_-   Author of "The Debian Linux User's Guide"  _-_-_-_-_-_-

aka   Dale Scheetz   Phone:   1 (850) 656-9769
  Flexible Software  11000 McCrackin Road
  e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL  32308

_-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_-



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Re: Non-interactive install proposal

[aw]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

Ok... Just some comments.

I just got some crude debian autoinstall mechanism running for my
organisation, which does a dpkg -install from a perl expect script, which
scans the output of dpkg for keywords which it reacts to. I would have
liked a more beautiful approach. This one looks better.

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you write:
[trimmed freely]

>From: Ian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-policy@lists.debian.org
>Subject: Re: Proposal: Automatic query servicing for dpkg installation scripts
>Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:35:41 +0100
> 
>Yes, we do need something like this.
>
>Properties that it needs to have include, in no particular order:
>
>1. Questions may need to be `independent' of any particular package.
>
>2. Only a particular package can determine which questions need to be
>asked in what order; in particular, following questions can depend on
>the previous ones.  This means that we can't specify the questions in
>advance in a file.  Instead, we have to put the information in
>command-line arguments to the query program.

It seems to me that we get very long commandlines this way.

>3. Questions should have a `name' that is textual (not numeric), and
>is separate from the prompt string.  Given 1. the name should probably
>have a hierarchical structure.  Given 2. there needs to be a way to
>put arbitrary `parameters' into the `name'.
>
>4. There should be a way to specify how `important' it is that a
>question be asked, and an environment variable or something to specify
>how willing we are to prompt, so that we can tune the level of
>prompting.

There should be a mode which *never* asks interactive questions. Over
here, I give a boot-disk to someone who has an new machine (or an old one
which needs a reinstall) and tell him to put it in the drive and reboot,
and take it out when he is asked to. Then he gets a new installation from
a saved and tested copy of debian. Some of the people whom I give such a
disk are not able to answer questions about the installation, nor do I
want them to answer them.

There are some reasons not to use a canned diskimage. One is that I would
need some editing of system files anyway for differing hostnames and such.
Second is that I would have to recreate the diskimage for every minor
update. I might automate that recreation to the point that is not more
work than saving a tested copy of debian, but that automation would be at
least as much work as the auto-install. Third is that I want to keep open
a way to auto-adapt to differing hardware to autoinstall X-servers or
mouses or other things which can be detected. Fourth is that it is the
'right' way. ;-)

>5. The interface should be suitable for changing the UI later (eg,
>plain-text, fullscreen text, X or whatever).
>
>6. The database format used to cache answers should be editable by
>humans.
>
>7. The query program should be the same as the retrieve-question
>program, so that the database of previous questions acts as a cache
>for the user.

>8. If the query program cannot prompt but the arguments say it needs
>to then it should indicate this with a nonzero exit status, which will
>(hopefully) cause the script to bomb out.
>
>9. Valid responses should be specified by regexp (preferably a
>reasonably fully-featured regexp like a Perl one) not a glob.

I am not sure whether this is the right direction. Maybe something like
X-resources are better.

>10. Metacharacters in prompts and data should work completely
>correctly.

How should metacharacters in data work?

I would tend to put the 'answer database' into the environment. For
example reserve Variables of the form DPKG_ANSWER_* to answers of
configuration questions. That would have the effect that scripts which do
not ask any questions would not be affected. And it would work with
minimal changes to dpkg.

I hope this reaches everyone I want to reach, I do not read debian-policy
yet, so I did not mail there.

cu

AW

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+Miststueck!


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Re: Bug#23522: man-db installs foreign language manpages

[Scott Ellis]

On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Peter Maydell wrote:
> My point wasn't that installing man pages for multiple languages was
> wrong, just that installing them without asking was wrong.

We're increasingly of the opinion recently that any postinst questions are
to be avoided.

In any event, others are correct to say that this is a general issue with
dpkg, which should be able to hold a list of paths or files to not
install.  I'm sure that said desire is already listed as a bug for dpkg.

Scott
(who is considering hacking up a program to stick in cron which would
purge out whatever directory paths the user didn't want to keep)



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Emacs startup file for Ispell dictionary

[Rafael Laboissiere]

In my packages ibrazilian and iportuguese, that provide dictionaries for
ispell, I addressed a issue raised by Santiago Vila some time ago in
this mailing list (see
 http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/debian-devel-9805/msg00498.html,
and bug report #22293).  

Each package add a file as the one attached below to
/etc/emacs/site-start.d/.  The goal is to include (eventually change) an
appropriate entry in the dictionaries alist. and I think that every
package providing a ispell dictionary should do something similar.
Besides, IMHO all emacsen should clear the variable
ispell-dictionary-alist.

Comments/objections are welcome.

--
Rafael Laboissiere
Institut de la Communication Parlee | Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
UPRESS A CNRS 5009 / INPG   | Voice: +33 4.76.57.48.49
46, av. Felix Viallet   |   Fax: +33 4.76.57.47.10
F-38031 Grenoble CEDEX 1 France |   URL: http://www.icp.inpg.fr/~rafael

P.S.: I just test my startup file with Xemacs 20, but it should work
  with other flavours.



50ibrazilian.el
Description: Binary data

Re: What to do when apt, dpkg and dselect dump core

[Ian Jackson]

Sudhakar Chandrasekharan writes ("What to do when apt, dpkg and dselect dump 
core"):
> I recently upgraded to apt_0.0.16-1
> 
> Things seemed to be going fine till today.  Today I noticed that apt-get,
> dpkg and dselect all dump core -

This sounds like it could be a (hitherto unknown!) dpkg bug.  Please
send a uuencoded copy of your /var/lib/dpkg/status file (and a tar of
/var/lib/dpkg/updates, if there's anything in it) to the bug system.

Thanks,
Ian.


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Re: VI reasons (was Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.)

[Martin Mitchell]

Raul Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Yes, but note that the current version of ae fixes a lot of these
> problems.  [I found this out while attempting to verify some
> of my gripes about ae.]

Is it just me, or does the vi mode in the current version of ae not work
at all? I tried

ae -f /etc/ae2vi.rc tst

and could not even quit with :q, I had to switch consoles and kill it.

Perhaps much of this discussion could be solved if ae managed vi keybindings
a little better.

Martin.

P.S. This test was using ae version 962-20.


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Re: RETRACTED msql 2.0.3-4

[Santiago Vila]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

On 14 Jun 1998, Guy Maor wrote:

> passwd is required and that is enough.  You can assume that all
> required packages are always on the system.

I disagree. Since you are able to remove a required-but-non-essential
package and dpkg does not complain, required-but-non-essential packages
are not guaranteed to be always on the system.

> So it's fine if the preinst just calls useradd without any checks or
> predependencies.

I thought that only the essential flag allows a Dependency or
Predependency to be missing. Is this a bug in the policy manual?

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Re: Serious performance bug in Perl

[Darren/Torin/Who Ever...]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

Chris Fearnley, in an immanent manifestation of deity, wrote:
>But yesterday I upgraded a bo system to hamm which has a 3000 line
>/etc/passwd.  Now adduser takes OVER ONE MINUTE to find a UID and GID
>for the new user.  And my staff is complaining about the wasted time.
>
>I fear that this perl bug is serious.

Something is wrong with your installation or possibly libc.  I compiled
perl-5.003_07 and perl-5.004_04 on a Solaris box with 5000 users.  The
5.004_04 was somewhat faster.

Darren
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Whereis lmemroot.bin

[Micha Kersloot]

Hello,

I've got a question. Where is lmemroot.bin for hamm ??

Grtx,

Micha Kersloot


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Re: looking for a stable pop-account

[Raul Miller]

Joop Stakenborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I cannot use any other mail protocol, neither can I use ssh because
> of the firewall here.

Er.. is it an application firewall (which insists on reading your
mail, at least to ensure that you're using proper pop commands),
or is it just a packet filter (which would let you use ssh to a
pop-3 port?

Just curious,

-- 
Raul


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Re: Stop vi discussion

[Raul Miller]

Andreas Jellinghaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> you may flame me, but you have to write the flame with joe.

Ok, I'm writing my response in joe.  [Is it a flame?  I hope not.]

ae is about 24k, 12k when compressed with gzexe, joe is about 174k,
82k when compressed with gzexe.

For this you get a number of vi features (block manipulations, redo, word
based movement, macros, cut and paste, parenthesis matching, compilation
support, regexp support).  vi (elvis-tiny) is smaller (62k/31k if I recall
correctly), but if we wanted to make the features available to the novice,
we'd have to write the docs.

joe also has a built in paragraph reformater (vi forces you to filter the
paragraph through fmt, or par), but we don't need that on a rescue disk.

joe displays time of day.  Dunno if that's worth it.

joe lets you do split screen stuff.  Dunno how well it works, haven't
tried it.

For what it does, ae is easier to use, and vi is smaller.  You could put
both ae and elvis on the rescue disk and have that much space again left
over when compared to joe.  The features missing from elvis-tiny aren't
worth the size (nothing is worth the size, frankly).

-- 
Raul


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Re: Stop vi discussion

[Yann Dirson]

Andreas Jellinghaus writes:
 > what then ?
 > joe.

Well, that's IMHO an idea worth worth studying.  When I first
installed Linux, I was coming from DOS and Borland's editors, which
joe mimics quite closely.

As a newbie, learning vi or emacs was not a short-term goal - I had to
do some effective work rather than learning some new editor.  Later I
learned emacs, but when starting I found joe to be a great compromise.

I would be quite in favor of replacing ae with something like joe.


Now another idea would be jed.  It's quite small (but maybe bigger
than joe, don't know, don't have joe installed any more), uses S-lang,
is emacs-likee, has vi emulation AFAIK.

-- 
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Re: Bug#23522: man-db installs foreign language manpages

[Peter Maydell]

Fabrizio Polacco wrote:
>On Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 11:10:13PM +0200, Peter Maydell wrote:
>> man-db installs Spanish, Italian and German versions of its manpages,
>> as well as English ones.
>
>This is one of the goals of Debian.
>It is surely the main reason for *my* partacipation to the project.
>When I find a package wich doesn't install all the translations
>available in its sources, I raise a bug asking to do so.

My point wasn't that installing man pages for multiple languages was
wrong, just that installing them without asking was wrong.

>> This might not seem like a significant disk usage for this package
>> (it's about 25K extra for each language), but consider if every
>> program installed four versions.
>
>Then the necessity to have such decision tool will become urgent, and
>the tool will be done. If I drop translations, this will never be done.

You're probably right here. My intention in filing this bug report
was more to bring up this point as a general problem. It's not a bug
against man-db in the sense of 'this must be fixed immediately'.
[but on the other hand I'm not sure severity: wishlist is right either]

>> My /usr/man/man?/ tree is about 5MB,
>> and I would certainly object if Debian installed an unnecessary extra
>> 15MB of man pages I would never read.
>
>Your opinion that translations are "unnecessary extras" is only your
>opinion. My aim is to create a multilingual distribution. 

They're unnecessary extras *on my machine*. If I don't want a web
server on my machine, I don't install that package. If I don't want
the Linux HOWTOs, I don't install doc-linux-text. If I don't want
Spanish documentation, I should be able to not install it.

Presumably this is (will be) a problem for (eg) German users too -- why
should they have Spanish man pages *unless they ask for them*?

>My preferred
>example for this is a shell machine in a ISP in Europe

Obviously some admins will want all language versions. But they are
in the minority and Debian ought to cater for the rest of us too.

>If you don't reassign this bug to dpkg or apt, I will close it in two
>days (as later I will be busy).


Oi! I'm an end user (OK, so I browse debian-devel :->). I'm not supposed
to have to know how to manipulate the bug tracking system. I agree that
man-db might not be the right place for this bug report, but I wasn't
sure where to file bugs against programs that don't exist (our hypothetical
language management tool) so I picked the only package on my system with
multiple-language manpages. If you don't think it's filed against the
right package, it's *your* responsibility as a developer to reassign
it to the right place.

[In fact, I probably could reassign it, if I read the BTS documentation; 
but as a point of principle you shouldn't ask me to :->]

Peter Maydell


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Re: Bug#23522: man-db installs foreign language manpages

[Luis Francisco Gonzalez]

Fabrizio Polacco wrote:
> This is one of the goals of Debian.
> It is surely the main reason for *my* partacipation to the project.
> When I find a package wich doesn't install all the translations
> available in its sources, I raise a bug asking to do so.
And you are not alone there!

> 
> Then the necessity to have such decision tool will become urgent, and
> the tool will be done. If I drop translations, this will never be done.
And you would get a bug report from many people!

Luis.
-- 
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PGP Fingerprint = F8 B1 13 DE 22 22 94 A1  14 BE 95 8E 49 39 78 76


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Re: apt and hamm

[Adam P. Harris]

Bob Hilliard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Adam P. Harris) writes:
> 
> > (a) we need specific installation instructions for upgrading.  Igor,
> > is this supposed to be part of the install.sgml document, or is it
> > separate?
> > 
> > (b) recommend for upgrades that users use *either* autoup.sh or, if
> > they are daring, 'apt-get dist-upgrade' followed by making it
> > dselect's acquisition method.  It would be excellent to support
> > both of these methods via CDROM is possible, but I would hate to
> > see that slow down the hamm release cycle.
> 
>  There is a README for autoup.sh on
> {ftp|http}://debian.vicnet.net.au/autoup/.
> 
>  Both the README and autoup.sh should have a separate (simplified)
> version for use on the CD.  (For instance, the script doesn't have to
> be interactive on the CD.)  The CD versions will be quick and easy to
> write, but can't be written until we know exactly where on the disk
> autoup.sh is located, and path to the hamm files.
> 
>  If Igor wanted to incorporate the autoup.sh README in
> install.txt, that would eliminate the need to include it as a separate
> file on the CD

Interesting.  Apparently, there's going to be coverage of these topics
in the release notes, not the install.sgml document.

Volunteers?  I'm a bit overcommitted ;)

-- 
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Re: About the Hamm Freeze (!)

[Darren/Torin/Who Ever...]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

James Troup, in an immanent manifestation of deity, wrote:
>"Darren/Torin/Who Ever..." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> It hasn't happened *intentionally*.  I'm not going to break many
>> Perl scripts without warning.  We have a release where gdbm is
>> deprecated and then next release, Perl won't be linked with it.
>
>I don't know perl, and am only going on what Ray has been telling me.
>It was my understanding that perl could be made to dynamically load
>it's gdbm part on request and that way perl need only recommend or
>(better) suggest gdbm.  Is this not the case?

This is the case if you use the tie interface in Perl.  This is not the
case if you use dbmopen, at least it didn't use to be.  Hamm should just 
get out the door and we'll deal with it in slink.

Darren
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Re: Bug#23522: man-db installs foreign language manpages

[Fabrizio Polacco]

[This (harsh) reply is CCed to debian-devel, as I think it's the place 
to discuss about the issue.]

On Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 11:10:13PM +0200, Peter Maydell wrote:
> Package: man-db
> Version: 2.3.10-65
> 
> man-db installs Spanish, Italian and German versions of its manpages,
> as well as English ones.

This is one of the goals of Debian.
It is surely the main reason for *my* partacipation to the project.
When I find a package wich doesn't install all the translations
available in its sources, I raise a bug asking to do so.

> It ought to ask the sysadmin which languages
> to install rather than installing them all without prompting. 

If every package would prompt for this, installation would become a
nightmare. If I do this, I'm sure someone else would raise a bug against
unnecessary prompting, and I would agree with him.
Therefore I will not do this.

> [Actually, this ought to be a system-wide setting...]

You're right here.
So the problem is not in man-db (or any other package installing all the
available languages), but in the insatallation tools.
I think this is a long awaited enhancement in dpkg's todo list. Last
year Ian was too busy for this, now we've been promised that apt (it was
deity before) will do that, and I hope he will do this ASAP. But I think
it would be important to have a way to change your mind later, to let
you add another language.

 
> This might not seem like a significant disk usage for this package
> (it's about 25K extra for each language), but consider if every
> program installed four versions.

Then the necessity to have such decision tool will become urgent, and
the tool will be done. If I drop translations, this will never be done.

> My /usr/man/man?/ tree is about 5MB,
> and I would certainly object if Debian installed an unnecessary extra
> 15MB of man pages I would never read.

Your opinion that translations are "unnecessary extras" is only your
opinion. My aim is to create a multilingual distribution. My preferred
example for this is a shell machine in a ISP in Europe, in Bozen or
Brussels, or even here in Turku, places where people speaks more than
one language, and you cannot know in advance which language will be used
by every user.


If you don't reassign this bug to dpkg or apt, I will close it in two
days (as later I will be busy).


fab
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Re: License

[Jens Ritter]

Nathan E Norman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Where can I find a good reference to LICENSES?

Have a look at the debian-devel web archive. Look for Copyright howto.
I posted some urls regarding copyright there.

HTH,

Jens

P.S.: Feel free to email, if you find some other links, thanks.

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looking for a stable pop-account

[Joop Stakenborg]

Hi, thanks for reading,

I am having some problems with the mail server here at the office.
Once every 2 weeks I get unsubscribed from the different debian
lists because of bounced mail. I have complained (a lot) with the
sysop here, but without any result.

Can anyone of you guys give me access to a unix server where I
can send my debian mail to? I am looking for a POP3 account
and preferably telnet access.
I cannot use any other mail protocol, neither can I use ssh because
of the firewall here.

Thanks for your help.

Joop [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Stop vi discussion

[Andreas Jellinghaus]

what do you want on the rescue disk ?
 - your favorite editor ?
that's not possible, we cannot include every editor
 - only __your__ favorite editor ?
hey, that's unfair. and if it's emacs : too big.
 - a strpped down version of all editors ?
great: everyone will be unhappym because that lookalike will
be crippeled.

my suggestion : one good editor, useable even by newbies.
reasoning: crippeled editors are no help at all. better have one working
editor.

does this mean emacs ?
no, emacs is too big. i'm a vi user, and i don't know how to use emacs.

does this mean vi ?
no, vi isn't useable by newbies. my neighbor is an emacs user, he doesn't know
how to use vi.

dies this mean ae ?
no. ae is nice, if want a crippeled, but very small editor.

what then ?
joe.

that's a stupid idea: nobody is useing joe, nobody likes it.
joe is useable for vi users and emacs users (even if it's a pain), and
every newby should be able to use it. go ahead, and invoke joe, try it.

you may flame me, but you have to write the flame with joe.

andreas


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Re: iso9660 survey : joilet or not joilet

[Andreas Jellinghaus]

>We use mkhybrid instead of mkisofs (it is just a patched version of
>mkisofs)  Does mkisofs 1.12a4 support both joliet and rockridge?

yes, it does. i'm currently useing it.

andreas


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Re: /tmp/cca32686 ?

[jdassen]

On Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 08:01:51PM -0600, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> For some reason with the newest hamm I have been getting lots of cca*
> files in /tmp, they are all 0 size and all created by my user. There are
> about 1000 of them right now - anyone know what is making these files so I
> can file a bug?

On Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 01:54:00AM +0200, Wichert Akkerman answered:
> gcc/g++. Ray is working on solving this and has almost reached a solution.
> Stay tuned.

Wichert is correct; with the current versions of gcc and egcc (Incoming),
this problem is gone. It resulted from a misunderstanding on my part about
the exact semantics of choose_temp_base in (e)gcc, which I modified to
reduce the vulnerability to attacks through symlinks in /tmp .

HTH,
Ray
-- 
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to cheat them out of and didn't manage. See also DISHONESTY, SNEAKY, 
UNDERHAND and JUST LUCKY I GUESS. 
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Re: Sorry but, Intent to package.

[Michael Bramer]

On Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 07:17:14AM -0500, Petra, Kevin J Poorman wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> to even start to look, to fix them so Here goes... I intend to package
> Blackbox, a small rather fast X11 window Manager. It's gpl'd SFAIK, It
> doesn't contain a copyright notice, but all the source files have the
> following comment in them:
> 
> //  This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
> //  it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
> //  the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
> //  (at your option) any later version.
> 
> so I belive they fall under the gpl.

I think this ok.

Grisu


pgp09roCNLelV.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Divesting ourselves of i386 bigotry...

[Chris Lawrence]

On Jun 14, Michael Alan Dorman wrote:
> I would like to ask what I should do about this:
> 
> 1) File a release-critical bug on ftp.debian.org that could be closed if the
> corrected package was copied from hamm to slink?
> 
> 2) File a release-critical bug on the package that could be closed if the
> corrected package was copied from hamm to slink?
> 
> 3) Do NMUs to slink that resolve the problems?

I think you have slink and hamm mixed up here.  Assuming 3 should read
"hamm" instead of slink, that's what I'd do: because (a) like you say, it
gets the best results and (b) it fixes the problem immediately.


Chris
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bootstrap build environments

[Raul Miller]

Is there anything like a cannonical list of packages that are needed for
building a standard debian system?

-- 
Raul


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Re: xntp3: init script is not very policy-compliant

[Raul Miller]

Jason Gunthorpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I've never had ntpdate ever work while xntpd is running, with the set
> > options it never actually changes the time, I forget if it's a silent
> > fail or if it gives some error.

Harumph.

Personally, I've never seen ntpdate hang, I've only deferred it
because it's not useful until my ppp connection is up.

It's clear that xntpd should start after ntpdate -b has had a chance
to run.  If ntpdate really can hang, then perhaps the whole
bit with ntpdate, and starting xntpd should be backgrounded.

-- 
Raul


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Re: just Dumb

[Raul Miller]

Steve Dunham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you have 1GB or so free and you have root access, you can install
> Debian in a chrooted environment.

And if you don't want to install just about every debian package
you can get by with a lot less than 1GB.

-- 
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ignore me

[Ray Kinsella]

ignore me

Regards
Ray

Why are you movin
  From one country to another
to find peace?
 The sea of peace is just inside
 Your mind's silence-sky.


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Imlib 1.6 is now in Debian's Incoming!!!!!!!!!

[Shaleh]

Yes after much trial and hard ship (ok after me putting it off and
complaining a lot) Imlib 1.6 is now resting comfortably in Debian's
Incoming and will appear in slink shortly.  SO yes, now GNOME and Debian
will happen.  Jim Pick and I seem to have it so we can make auto gen
packages from cvs so mebbe Debian can have day-to-day packages too. 
Everyone say thanks to Jim Pick for being so helpful.  And for being
willing to compile GNOME.  (-:  So now you can all go and get on someone
else's back abut a package you just have to have.  Raster and Mandrake,
I always felt for you, but I have now had a little taste of "we want it
yesterday".  You can keep it (-:


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Re: just Dumb

[Ray Kinsella]

On 14 Jun 1998, Steve Dunham wrote:

> Ray Kinsella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Er, 
> > 
> > Hey all, I have a a few small problems,
> > 
> > I was messing about today on irc.debian.org doling out tech support while
> > playing around with apackage called Dumb it is a free Doom Graphics 
> > engine. Anyway I got it to compile after some light source hacking and it
> > works well under X.
> 
> > So I hear you say wonderful, send it on to us, we will have a look
> 
> > Now unfortunately, its not that simple, I can't can't maintain the package
> > becos' my access to an Alpha Linux Box will shortly be coming to an end
> > and also unfortunately ( even though I use debian at home ) I am restriced
> > to RH5.0 on the box here so making a .deb could present a problem. 
> 
> If you have 1GB or so free and you have root access, you can install
> Debian in a chrooted environment.
> 

er, this I know, but I am in the procces of doing about 100 millions
things at once so it maybe a few days before I get around to it


Regards
Ray

Why are you movin
  From one country to another
to find peace?
 The sea of peace is just inside
 Your mind's silence-sky.


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Re: just Dumb

[Steve Dunham]

Ray Kinsella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Er, 
> 
> Hey all, I have a a few small problems,
> 
> I was messing about today on irc.debian.org doling out tech support while
> playing around with apackage called Dumb it is a free Doom Graphics 
> engine. Anyway I got it to compile after some light source hacking and it
> works well under X.

> So I hear you say wonderful, send it on to us, we will have a look

> Now unfortunately, its not that simple, I can't can't maintain the package
> becos' my access to an Alpha Linux Box will shortly be coming to an end
> and also unfortunately ( even though I use debian at home ) I am restriced
> to RH5.0 on the box here so making a .deb could present a problem. 

If you have 1GB or so free and you have root access, you can install
Debian in a chrooted environment.


Steve
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: VI reasons (was Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.)

[Raul Miller]

Jeff Sheinberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The problem is that `ae' is what's available.  I just go bananas
> trying to use it.  It just rubs me the wrong way.  Perhaps others
> react to ae in a similar way?

Yes, but note that the current version of ae fixes a lot of these
problems.  [I found this out while attempting to verify some
of my gripes about ae.]

-- 
Raul


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Re: VI reasons (was Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.)

[Raul Miller]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I agree tottally. Personally..my favoprite editor right now is ee. I use it

I suppose ee is also a candidate for the rescue disks if it fits (it
offers searching, which is something that ae doesn't do, and it's
smaller than elvis-tiny).

Also, note that we probably wouldn't be talking about replacing ae at
all if it weren't for problems with earlier versions (which seem to be
fixed at this point). That, and the need that resulted in providing a
version of ae which had vi-like bindings [I think this was only because
of vipw.]

-- 
Raul


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Re: VI reasons (was Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.)

[Jeff Sheinberg]

Manoj Srivastava writes:
 >  Absolute novices unwilling to learn should be lead gently to
 >  the nearest windows box.

As I see it, it's not a matter of `learning' but of `using' what
is available on the boot disk.

My usual editor is emacs.  Today I used `ee' for the first time,
while installing FreeBSD, it was so easy and pleasant.  I can just
about limp around with vi.  I would be perfectly happy to see any
of these editors be made available on the boot disk.

The problem is that `ae' is what's available.  I just go bananas
trying to use it.  It just rubs me the wrong way.  Perhaps others
react to ae in a similar way?

Cheers,

-- 
Jeff Sheinberg  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: access

[LeRoy D. Cressy]

Michael Dietrich wrote:
> 
> hi,
> 
> i copied a harddisk with tar (kind of tar -c -f - | tar -x -f - -C
> /copy...) and lost a lot of accessinformation. it seems, that the
> umask dropped all the rights for writing for group and other. shure i
> didn't read the manual and thi sbehavier may be a feature, not a bug.
> but now i've got a debian system with wrong access rights. i could fix
> /dev, cause MAKEDEV does this. now im looking for a similar skript for
> the other dirs. i think it would be importand to check those access
> rights from time to time. kind of konsistency check on files and
> dirs especially in /var would be nice.


Hi Michael,

To preserve the permissions with tar the command to use is:

tar -cz --same-owner [-p | --same-permissions | --preserve-permissions] -f 
filename.tgz

this will create a tar file with same owner and file permissions. 
I don't understand the subtle differences between the -p 
--same-permissions or the --preserve-permissions, but only 
one is needed.  also when extracting the file I think that the
--same-owner and the --same-permissions must be set.  

Hope that this helps

-- 
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   "   Home Page:http://www.netaxs.com/~ldc/
___ooO ~ Ooo___

LeRoy D. Cressy  /\_/\  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: xanim on alpha

[Richard Kaszeta]

Michael Dietrich writes ("Re: xanim on alpha"):
>> Oops.  I forgot to remove that evil archive from the source!
>> Technically, we are not allowed to distrbute those.  The xanim
>> author got a permission to distribute them, but it's
>> non-transferable.  I tried to contact the company that owns the
>> copyright, but got no response, and xanim author's contacts for this
>> are long gone
>so no xanim at all or does it work without?

It can compile without the .o's, it just won't support a number of
codecs, such as Intel Indeo and Radius Cinepak.

-- 
Richard W Kaszeta   Graduate Student/Sysadmin
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   University of MN, ME Dept
http://www.menet.umn.edu/~kaszeta


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Re: VI reasons (was Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.)

[sjc]

On Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 10:27:52AM -0400, Z-Y [Jerry] wrote:
> greet all,
> 
> I am no guru. But let's stop this war! 

yes...wars are unproductive..and in the case of this type of war
doesn't even have the benefit of getting rid of some people off the planet.

> To me, choice of editor depends on
> your experience, skill and task on hand. I use vi and my boss at work uses
> emacs. We both like our own choice very much and enjoy the way our choice
> works for us. But we never try to "convert" each other, fortunately. 

I agree tottally. Personally..my favoprite editor right now is ee. I use it
all the time. It is not that I am "Unwilling to learn", in fact
I love to learn, its just I feel that using an editor isn't something
that I should need to "learn". 

Some people like emacs (I used to love it...don't use it as much now), some 
like ae, some like ee, some like vi (I usually call those people masochists...
but only in fun ;) )

as for the base...I agree with the point of using ae or ee or some such 
"simple" editor. Make it easy for people comming from windows to get started
if they wish to learn vi later..so be it, but not everyone can just
"Pick up" vi and run with it like some of the other editors.

> For the experience of being converted to something else, 
> if you are a buddist, try being converted by a Christian or vice versa.
> If you don't believe in any form of god, you are free to choose one or
> create your own:-)

hmm nice point. Tried Chrstian, didn't fit me..now im in that 3rd group...
did try creating my own...didn't work out. I only have 2 "followers" now..
and they aren't very good ones. Actually...maybe wiseass is a better term than 
"Follower" or "Worshipper"

> have  a peaceful sunday.

too late for that...oh well...
 
> Jerry
> 
> On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Raul Miller wrote:
> 
> > Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >   Most features? *VI*? or you mean XEmacs? Since when has vi
> > >  been an editor with features? ;-)
> > 
> > The biggest advantage of vi over xemacs is that vi is easier on the
> > wrists. For example, vi's . command (repeat last command which changed
> > the text) is something that doesn't make much sense in the xemacs
> > environment (because you can always type ^x( command ^x) then ^x^e...,
> > and a command to replace . would be about as many keystrokes).
> > 
> > At one point, I almost had to give up programming because my wrists hurt
> > so bad. Switching to vi from emacs (and taking better care of myself)
> > mostly solved that.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Raul
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> 
>  YU, Zhongbin (Jerry)   In Nature I believe:-)
> -
> M.S. in CIS   |   M.S. in Chemistry
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] |   http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~zyu
> RA w/ Dr. Ramesh  |   Tel: (404)251-9072
> 
> 
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> 
> 

-- 
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"Maturity is often more absurd than youth and very frequently is most 
unjust to youth"
-- Thomas Edison 


pgpaSTunnM56n.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: xanim on alpha

[Michael Dietrich]

> Oops.  I forgot to remove that evil archive from the source!
> Technically, we are not allowed to distrbute those.  The xanim
> author got a permission to distribute them, but it's
> non-transferable.  I tried to contact the company that owns the
> copyright, but got no response, and xanim author's contacts for this
> are long gone
so no xanim at all or does it work without?
-- 
see header


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Re: xanim on alpha

[Igor Grobman]

Some time around  Fri, 15 Jun 2018 03:22:12 +0200, 
 Michael Dietrich wrote:
 > hi,
 > 
 > i tried to get an alpha-binary of xanim. because i didn't find it on
 > the mirror i got the source and tried to compile. everything worked
 > fine but a wrong path in rules (that one for the dotofiles.tgz, no ../
 > necesary).

Oops.  I forgot to remove that evil archive from the source!  Technically, we 
are not allowed to distrbute those.  The xanim author got a permission to 
distribute them, but it's non-transferable.  I tried to contact the company 
that owns the copyright, but got no response, and xanim author's contacts for 
this are long gone

> but then the linker complained about wrong binary: the
 > source package comes with intel objects. shure, it's not free, that's
 > the cause i think, but where can i get those object for alpha?

you don't ;(.  They are completely non-free, and there are no alpha modules 
AFAIK.

-- 
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Igor Grobman   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



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Re: VI reasons (was Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.)

[Raul Miller]

Michael Dietrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> do you really think an absolute novice would understand why he or she
> should press j or k and not those fancy key with the arrows with the
> correct direction instead and that those key should won't insert those
> letters printed on them into the text?

Er.. you mean the enter key, or the tab key? Or maybe you mean like the
8, 4, 2 and 6 keys? Or maybe you mean this unlabeled key just above the
enter key -- it has an arrow on it?

I guess the only way to find out is by asking some absolute novices.

But you have to wonder what such a person would do with an editor,
once he found it. [Follow the documentation you say? With all those
complicated letters of the alphabet in it? And we're not even getting
into file syntax...]

More seriously, I'm not suggesting this go into hamm. It would require a
code change for elvis-tiny, and though it's a simple change, this just
isn't the kind of change that's worth doing this close to release. It's
too close to our core needs.

Nor am I suggesting it go into slink, if there's not enough room on the
release disk. Having enough space is crucial.

I wouldn't object to seeing it on an alternate rescue disk series,
though, if someone wanted to play with it.

-- 
Raul


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Re: VI reasons (was Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.)

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 03:08:15PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> Remember that we're talking theory here, even elvis-tiny is 
> currently bigger than ae, and space is cramped on the rescue
> disk.

How about gzexe?


Hamish
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CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome.   http://hamish.home.ml.org


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access

[Michael Dietrich]

hi,

i copied a harddisk with tar (kind of tar -c -f - | tar -x -f - -C
/copy...) and lost a lot of accessinformation. it seems, that the
umask dropped all the rights for writing for group and other. shure i
didn't read the manual and thi sbehavier may be a feature, not a bug.
but now i've got a debian system with wrong access rights. i could fix
/dev, cause MAKEDEV does this. now im looking for a similar skript for
the other dirs. i think it would be importand to check those access
rights from time to time. kind of konsistency check on files and
dirs especially in /var would be nice.


best regards,
michael
-- 
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xanim on alpha

[Michael Dietrich]

hi,

i tried to get an alpha-binary of xanim. because i didn't find it on
the mirror i got the source and tried to compile. everything worked
fine but a wrong path in rules (that one for the dotofiles.tgz, no ../
necesary). but then the linker complained about wrong binary: the
source package comes with intel objects. shure, it's not free, that's
the cause i think, but where can i get those object for alpha?
-- 
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Re: VI reasons (was Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.)

[Michael Dietrich]

> > Absolute novices unwilling to learn should be lead gently to
> >  the nearest windows box.
> How about something like:
[..] 
> This editor has two modes, in Input mode you may enter text,
> in Command mode you may alter previously entered text.
> 
> To enter input mode from command mode, hit  i
> To enter command mode from input mode, hit  ESC
> it's safe to hit ESC while in command mode
> [ESC means the escape key, ENTER means the enter key]
do you really think an absolute novice would understand why he or she
should press j or k and not those fancy key with the arrows with the
correct direction instead and that those key should won't insert those
letters printed on them into the text? please come down from your
trip. stop this thread. it's nasty. important is which editor to use
instead. i think even ae is to cryptic to use.
just to be shure: i'm an absolute fan of vim. use it every day write
even html with it instead of using an wordprocessor. so get to a
productive discussion now, please.
-- 
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Re: xntp3: init script is not very policy-compliant

[Raul Miller]

Jason Gunthorpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've never had ntpdate ever work while xntpd is running, with the set
> options it never actually changes the time, I forget if it's a silent
> fail or if it gives some error.

Hmm.. and the system where I was running ntpdate in the background
(after I thought I had started xntpd, by the way) doesn't have a
running xntpd.

I guess it might be appropriate to run a meta-server (which would take
down xntpd when receiving an ntpdate request, then restarts xntpd (or
restarts it after a short delay if it stopped without authorization)).

I'm deferring further discussion of this for a bit, I think I've discovered
what I would think of as a bash (and ash, and ksh bug).

   * * * * *

Briefly, this command line:
f=/tmp/fifo; rm -f $f; mkfifo $f; ( sleep 100 <$f 0>$f &);  sleep 2; echo >$f
will kill your interactive shell

I'm a bit surprised to find this, um.. undocumented feature in three
shells of supposedly different lineage.  I should note that it doesn't
affect bash (nor other shells) when I tried it under solaris.  I guess
it might be related to the kernel's handling of sigpipe.

Someone want to check to see if it's just me, before I go off and file
a whole bunch of bug reports?

-- 
Raul


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