Re: rock around hwclock.sh

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Wednesday 13 April 2011 08.05:23 Andrew O. Shadoura wrote:
> ii) Possibly, `hwclock.sh stop` should be run more frequently than just
> once on shutdown, because it sometimes happens that the system doesn't
> shut down correctly. If that happens after some time correction (like
> DST), system time can go wrong, and ntp might not perform the automatic
> correction. Possibly, hwclock saving can be done, for example, once a
> day per anacron, or... any more ideas?

run hwclock stop only at shutdown, but set system clock to latest(rtc, 
hwclock stored time + delta, /var/log/syslog + delta) at boot?

I am aware that not everybody has /var/log/syslog in heavily customized 
installs, but if it's there, it's usually occasionally written to. And using 
that is certainly faster than "find most recently modified file on all 
filesystems" :-)

-- vbi

-- 
featured product: ClamAV Antivirus - http://www.clamav.net/


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Python 3 as default? (Re: "Python2.6 as default")

[Adrian von Bidder]

Hi,

On Tuesday 12 April 2011 01.22:55 Scott Kitterman wrote:
> The notion that /usr/bin/python pointing to any python3 version in the
> near term is anything other than crazy talk is, well, crazy.

Agreed. However, it would be interesting to track which of the bg/major 
python packages/frameworks are not available on Python3 yet, if only as a 
reference for the next time somebody proposes to have /usr/bin/python be a 
Python 3.

http://wiki.debian.org/Python/Python3Packages

It's not complete by far, but I guess the fact that django, a big part of 
zope and pylons are all three not available for Python 3 yet (upstream, not 
only packages) should serve to illustrate the point.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
Jetzt ist der Herr Bush Präsident, und weil ihm wieder langweilig ist,
will er endlich den Saddam loswerden. Der Herr Bush hat nämlich keine
Praktikantin.
-- http://bush.d0t.de/


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Re: Moving bash from essential/required to important?

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Monday 04 April 2011 18.04:20 Luk Claes wrote:
> The most obvious reason to not degrade bash to Priority: important is
> obviously that one needs to declare a dependency on bash when it's used
> in a package. Which means quite some packages will need to be changed.

Do you have any kind of estimate how many peopl would need to depend on 
bash?

If it's a few hundred: no problem, why not tackle this as a wheezy release 
goal. If it's 4000, don't bother.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
featured product: the GNU Compiler Collection - http://gcc.gnu.org


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Re: Bug#620821: ITP: vpnautoconnect -- Automatically reconnect VPNs created by NetworkManager

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Monday 04 April 2011 14.15:37 barraud wrote:
> vpnautoconnect is a daemon that allow you to reconnect automatically
> (at startup too) a vpn created with network manager. It can reconnect

Can I please have a daemon that monitors if vpnautoconnect works correctly?  
perhaps vpnautoconnectmonitord? And then that one needs to be kicked 
occasionally if the user changes the configuration, so we add another daemon 
for this 

I would really strongly prefer if nm got fixed for all cases where it 
currently doesn't work.  If automatically connecting to VPN connections 
currently is not in network manager, this should certainly be implemented 
there, and not as a separate daemon.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
Frija (free' ya) was the wife sneeze of Woden and the queen count of
the spread gods.


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Re: Hay one more, in GNU World

[Adrian von Bidder]

Hi,

On Sunday 03 April 2011 11.57:02 Snow Star wrote:

> We are developing on good infrastructure Yours and Ubuntu,
> We want to develop on Your and Ubuntu GNU / Linux, and also to become
> great friends of the GNU world, and so our community becomes stronger.
> 
> Our visions are similar to Yours.
> And the support of the ("not talking about money") just the verbal, Do
> you agree that we still continue to develop on your platform, We will be
> happy to work in GNU / Linux development, any assistance You're in need
> to You or to Us. I hope You are ready for cooperation.

You do not need any permission or agreement to use Linux, Debian GNU/Linux 
or any other, or to help with it's further development. Just do your bit, 
and we'll be happy. 

How do you contribute?  See http://www.debian.org/intro/help and 
http://www.debian.org/devel/

Happy hacking!

-- vbi


-- 
Open source is more secure. Period.
-- CTO Trend Micro
   http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-6083490.html


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Re: Is BTS down?

[Adrian von Bidder]

Heyho!

[bts down?]

Note that Googlebot or other bots sometimes hit (some of) the bts mirrors 
quite hard.

I repeatedly had the case where using a different bts mirror (via static 
entry in /etc/hosts) temporarily helped.

cheers
-- vbi


-- 
Think of it as a steak haché sur un petit pain aux graines de sésame,
servi sur un lit de roquette, accompagné des pommes de terre Ruisset
découpées et frites de la façon traditionelle.
-- in short: burger with french fries
   (inexplicably, this was an ad for some financial company.)


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Re: Process to adopt moribund packages?

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Saturday 12 March 2011 14.50:53 Neil Williams wrote:
> roy hills  wrote:
> > I know the current package maintainer can file an RFA, or orphan the
> > package, but is there a process for a new maintainer to take the
> > package over if the current maintainer doesn't update it but doesn't
> > request adoption?
> 
> Ask someone on debian...@lists.debian.org about the specific package.

Contacting the current maintainer should IMO always be the (obvious) first 
step - if you feel the package is neglected, ask if he would mind if you'd 
take over.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
 You're rewriting parts of Quake in *Python*?
 MUAHAHAHA


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Re: Frage zu eine DEB Paket

[Adrian von Bidder]

Hi,

On Wednesday 09 March 2011 02.19:42 linus.kaltenbach wrote:
> Hi ich hab ne Frage,wieso haben sie in Ihrem Repo kein OpenBVE drin
> http://openbve.trainsimcentral.co.uk/

The answer to "why is X not in Debian" for free software packages is mostly: 
because nobody has done the work (yet.)

I haven't looked at openbve at all, but if it's indeed free software and 
does not have dependencies on non-free software, there shouldn't be much 
preventing anybody to create a pakckage. Note that you don't have to be a 
registered Debian developer to create a package: you can find somebody to 
upload it to Debian if you create a package that suffices Debian's 
standards.

Note that for openbve, a "Request for Package" has already been filed:

so at least one other person was interested in getting a package at some 
time.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
I personally encourage kids to smoke - it's about the only time they get
outdoors.
   -- JerryMouse in news.admin.net-abuse.email


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Re: Ruby changes for Wheezy

[Adrian von Bidder]

Heyho!

On Friday 04 March 2011 14.16:34 Lucas Nussbaum wrote:

> Sorry, could you explain how it works in python, when a given binary
> package contains stuff for both python 2.6 and 2.7, for example?

I'm not involved with Python packages, so somebody correct me please.

The way it's done is that the packages declare what versions of python they 
support:

python-pygments, for example:
Depends: python2.6 | python2.7 | python2.5, python (>= 2.6.6-7~)
Breaks: python (>= 2.8), python (<< 2.5)

(these are generated by helpers - I'm not 100% why the Breaks is necessary, 
but I think it's to ensure that any given python library is available in all 
supported python versions that are installed.  A way without that would be 
nice though, even if that would mean python2.8 wouldn't see all modules that 
are installed.  OTOH this would certainly generate lots of mails to the bts 
by users...)

Then, via triggers, the module is compiled to bytecode for all supported 
python versions, added to the version's module path etc. (not sure how 
exactly this is done, and I guess this would be different for ruby in any 
case.)

Modules with binary parts usually just deliver the shared libraries in the 
main python-foo package (see python-yenc), but I guess it is possible to 
create python2.5-foo and python2.6-foo and have both provide the virtual 
python-foo.  Don't know if it exists.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
Whenever people agree with me, I always think I must be wrong.
-- Oscar Wilde


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Re: Speeding up dpkg, a proposal

[Adrian von Bidder]

Yodel again!
On Wednesday 02 March 2011 17.02:11 Marius Vollmer wrote:
> It shows a speed up between factor six and two in our environment (ext4
> on a slowish flash drive) .  I am not sure whether messing with the
> fundamentals of dpkg is worth a factor of two in performance

To not be all negative: read the recent discussion about fsync() and other 
stuff in dpkg (I'm not sure where the discussion happened exactly; it was 
about dpkg becoming extremely slow in some use cases on modern filesystems 
like btrfs and was a short time before the release. Since then, there is an 
option for dpkg:

  unsafe-io:  Do  not  perform  safe  I/O  operations  when
  unpacking.  Currently  this  implies  not performing file
  system syncs before file renames, which is known to cause
  substantial performance degradation on some file systems,
  unfortunately the ones that require the safe I/O  on  the
  first  place  due  to  their unreliable behaviour causing
  zero-length files on abrupt system crashes.

  Note: For ext4, the main offender, consider using instead
  the mount option nodelalloc, which will fix both the per‐
  formance degradation and the data safety issues, the lat‐
  ter  by  making  the  file system not produce zero-length
  files on abrupt system  crashes  with  any  software  not
  doing syncs before atomic renames.

  Warning:  Using  this option might improve performance at
  the cost of losing data, use with care.

So you should compare against dpkg with unsafe-io. Very slightly pre-dating 
this: I often (on btrfs, and when I'm inside development chroots that don't 
matter much) end up wrapping aptitude/apt-get/dpkg with eatmydata and get 
the same benefits. But the tool really deserves its name: a hard reboot 
directly after a package installation will leave a mess behind... (I could 
so far avoid this; I recently had a zero-length initrd after a kernel 
upgrade that *might* have been related. OTOH I did a clean shutdown there so 
it shouldn't have happened...)

Yet another point, for the future: I *think* that btrfs is building an 
interface so applications can directly access btrfs transactions. Which 
would allow to do package upgrades in a btrfs transaction, and since (again, 
I *think* so, I'm not sure) can even be ended without forcing an immediate 
sync (the result is more like a barrier than a sync), this would be a fine 
way to deal with the situation.  At the cost that it's btrfs specific.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
BOFH excuse #233:

TCP/IP UDP alarm threshold is set too low.


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Re: Speeding up dpkg, a proposal

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Wednesday 02 March 2011 17.02:11 Marius Vollmer wrote:
> - Instead, we move all packages that are to be unpacked into
>   half-installed / reinstreq before touching the first one, and put a
>   big sync() right before carefully writing /var/lib/dpkg/status.

You don't want to do this. While production systems usually are upgraded in 
downtime windows (with less load), it is sometimes necessary to install some 
package (tcpdump or whatever to diagnose problems...) while the system is 
under high load. Especially when you're trying to find out why the machine 
has a load of 20 and you can't afford to kill it...

On a machine with lots of RAM (== disk cache...) and high I/O load, you 
don't want to do a (global!) sync().  This can totally kill the machine for 
20min or more and is a big no go.

-- vbi

-- 
featured link: http://www.pool.ntp.org


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Re: Call for projects for Google Summer of Code 2011

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Wednesday 02 March 2011 10.43:44 Ana Guerrero wrote:

> Debian is applying as mentoring organization to the Google Summer of Code
> (GSoC) this year

Dealing with the init scripts / service enable / disable mess. See current 
d-devel discussion.

As much a discussion / social skills project as a coding project, so I'm not 
sure if GSoC is the right place.

Or do it as a pure coding project, implement a proper set of tools, but then 
it's a question if it will be adopted into Debian in the end, which would 
mean wasted effort.

(And please don't start discussion of the actual problem here, there's the 
other thread for this...)

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
Jetzt ist der Herr Bush Präsident, und weil ihm wieder langweilig ist,
will er endlich den Saddam loswerden. Der Herr Bush hat nämlich keine
Praktikantin.
-- http://bush.d0t.de/


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Re: Potential memory leaks reported by Valgrind against some frequently used commands

[Adrian von Bidder]

Hi!

On Wednesday 02 March 2011 03.38:42 Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 03/01/2011 06:19 AM, ximalaya wrote:
> > Hi all,
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > BTW, I ever tried on Redhat Linux 9, no such problem.
> 
> This is the interesting part.  Is RH keeping their patches, or are
> upstream and other distros just not determining them worthwhile?

Or is it an eglibc <> libc issue? (Not sure what libc RH is using.)


-- vbi


-- 
Vertrauen ist gut.  Anwalt ist saugeil.


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Re: enable/disable flags in /etc/default

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Saturday 26 February 2011 21.44:07 Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> I'd like us to decide on a policy about enable/disable flags in
> /etc/default in general.

+1 on those who don't like to have them.

The init scripts (or whatever) need to

 * provide a sane default for startup order

 * allow users to override this

 * allow for startup of a daemon to be (de)activated persistently 
(persistent over package upgrades, that is.)

 * and the package scripts (pre/postinst on upgrade especially) need to 
respect this (i.e. work in a sane way when the daemon is down, not leaving 
it started if it wasn't started etc.)

 * all documentation needs to be updated so that users finally don't end up 
doing silly things just so that mysql isn't started on boot[1].

I'm sure I forgot some, but I that are the ones I can just think of.

The whole topic shouldn't be Debian specific.  I have no idea, but isn't 
there an LSB or whatever spec?  Where does it fall short?  Who should be 
involved to get something that other distributions could use as well?

-- vbi

[1] Yes, I know, the "mysql needs to be installed for kde but I don't want 
to run it" case has finally been solved.  Similar cases will keep coming up, 
I'm sure...

-- 
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-- Oliver Hassencamp


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Re: Bug#612694: ITP: scanmonitord -- scanner button daemon

[Adrian von Bidder]

Hi,

On Thursday 10 February 2011 01.32:12 Jakub Wilk wrote:
>Description : scanner button daemon
> 
> Scanmonitord is a daemon which runs device monitors on one or more
> devices. [...]

I'm curious (and you might want to add it to the description): does this tie 
in with modern desktop systems via DBUS or whatever, or is this a standalone 
thing?

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
The ants in France, stay mainly on the plants.


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Re: Kernel

[Adrian von Bidder]

Heyho!

On Tuesday 08 February 2011 22.57:51 Pontus Andersson wrote:
> Hi. I like to make a request regarding the Debian Linux kernel.
> I think the "tux boot" should be compiled with the Debian logo..
> With tux boot I mean that some distros e.g. Arch and slackware boots with
> the logo
> while displaying the boot process.

As Paul has said, there is a patch to include the Debian logo at boot. As 
far as I know, the kernel still displays the traditional penguin at boot if 
a framebuffer is used, but note that on recent systems framebuffer has been 
replaced by kms which is loaded a bit later in the boot process and doesn't 
display any logo (either tux or the swirl with the patch.)

-- vbi

-- 
Fuyez un ennemi qui sait votre défaut.
-+- Pierre Corneille, Polyeucte -+-


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Re: Qt3 removal rational

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Wednesday 09 February 2011 01.12:57 Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer 
wrote:
> Of course, we can simply orphan Qt 3, and hope somebody will step up to 
> maintain it; we are unconvinced this is a responsible step for us to take
> as  it would place the maintenance burden of a large package onto the QA
> team.

If qt3 is really popular with scientific apps, which presumably are slow 
moving targets which are not esaily /quickly ported to qt4, it should be 
enough motivation for the people who need qt3 to take on the maintenance, so 
no need to burden the QA team. You need a piece of software, you do the 
necessary packaging work - it's that simple, at least in theory.
 
cheers
-- vbi

-- 
Today is Setting Orange, the 40th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3177


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Re: The "node" command in Debian

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Monday 07 February 2011 13.54:24 Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> 1. they can declare a conflict with each other, so that the packaging
>system will never let both get installed in the same system.

JavaScript and AX.25 sounds like it might be quite a distance in terms of 
people involved, although this is really just a guess.

Start with a package conflict plus explanatory notice in README.Debian and 
move on to other measures if "enough" people complain, perhaps?

Downside is of course that this discussion will probably repeated a few 
times.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
As we found out later, our activities had both saturated an uplink two
"hops" up from our university, at the Nordic University Network level
and made some DoS-alarms go off at the national level. All part of a fun
release.
-- serving Debian sarge and Ubuntu Breezy CD images
   http://www.acc.umu.se/~maswan/2005-12-10/2gbit-freesoftware.html


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Re: does aptitude really need to lock the status database when downloading?

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Friday 04 February 2011 12.47:21 Fernando Lemos wrote:
> do, say, an "apt-get upgrade", apt prepares an upgrade "plan" that
> uses a given set of packages. If apt wouldn't lock [...]
> new plan would have to be created, the user would
> have to be asked for confirmation again. Doesn't sound that great.

If apt can (can it easily?  Not sure) determine if the package db has not 
changed, this could be a noop for 99% of the users.

Not sure if it's worth the complexity, thogh, I've only had this issue very 
occasionally.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
featured product: GNU Privacy Guard - http://gnupg.org


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Re: Equivalent packages between Linux distributions

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Wednesday 19 January 2011 00.54:44 Silvio Cesare wrote:
> I have generated a list of roughly equivalent packages between Linux
> distributions (currently Debian 5 and Fedora 13). The list is
> automatically generated.

Cool!

Maybe I have missed a pointer or whatever: how did you compute this 
similarity? Number of identical files?  Or filenames?

I was just wondering: GSoC project: 
 * run this after every release of a major distribution
 * add this info to aptitude/... : if I install a package that doesn't 
exist, add this to the search database (not sure what aptitude looks at 
right now, exactly, but it already has the infrastructure for proposing a 
package if the given name doesn't exist.)

But please make this optional, on small systems apt already is only barely 
usable.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
to debug such lockups in the future you can do:
...
NOTE: dont use the keyboard in this mode for too long, it can lock up.
-- Ingo Molnar, lkml


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Re: Bug#566126: ITP: openpgm -- Implementation of the Pragmatic General Multicast protocol

[Adrian von Bidder]

Hi Steven,

On Thursday 13 January 2011 13.18:58 Steven McCoy wrote:

>   A year later and I have a basic Autoconf/Automake system in trunk for
> OpenPGM ready to package for Debian.

Nice to see progress, note that I'm not involved in zeromq packaging anymore 
(except to sponsor the odd upload) because I didn't follow up on my plans to 
do cool stuff with zeromq.  So my interest on getting involved in openpgm 
packaging is similarly limited at this time.

Still, it would obviously be nice to have openpgm available in Debian, so 
maybe somebody else is interested in working with you on this and/or sponsor 
your upload.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
featured product: the GNU Compiler Collection - http://gcc.gnu.org


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Bug#607043: ITP: jwhoisserver -- Java Whois Server - a small whois server written in java

[Adrian von Bidder]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Adrian von Bidder 

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

+++
* Package name: jwhoisserver
  Version : 3.3.0 or newer
  Upstream Author : Klaus Zerwes zero-sys.net 
* URL : http://jwhoisserver.net/
* License : Affero GPL
  Programming Lang: Java
  Description : Java Whois Server - a small whois server written in java

 Java Whois Server - a small, fast and highly configurable
 RFC 3912 compliant whois server written in java
 and using RDBMS (mysql,postgresql,hsqldb,sqlite,firebird)
 as a storage engine.
+++

I'm currently working with Klaus and several friendly people on IRC to
improve the package since I don't know dbconfig and Java, which the
package uses.  If somebody else wants to continue who knows more about
the technology: don't hesitate, I'm not keen on maintaining this
package.  We're using it at work, so having it in Debian would be nice.

Current status of my work is at <https://fortytwo.ch/hg/pkg-jwhoisserver>.


-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAk0HKswACgkQKqpm2L3fmXqXtwCgjFLQ+VNKV8xcQ1mIY3U/Ckl2
ixMAoLroIAv7AH6n+AqZSylCzDbZOZj1
=rGqJ
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



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Re: Google Summer of Code 2010 Debian Report

[Adrian von Bidder]

Hi Arthur,

On Monday 20 September 2010 11.37:04 Obey Arthur Liu wrote:
[GSoC report]

Hmm.  It would have been nice to hear about what the students did and how 
far they got in their GSoC projects instead of what they did at DC10.

Exactly like David Kalnischkies wrote his summary.

(That said, THANKS for doing it, I imagine it's quite a bit of work and 
I share your enthusiasm that it looks like many of the students will stay 
with Debian even after the GSoC projects are "finished".)

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
The idea is that you can only get in trouble for what you actually did.
What a concept.
-- Pam Jones, Groklaw


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Re: Bits from the Security Team

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Friday 19 October 2007 17.52:29 Steve Kemp wrote:

>   I don't believe that post contains significant new information,
>  (except that I like pies!), and as such I didn't believe it deserved
>  massive visibility.

That you like pies is important.

Seriously:  I think exactly this kind of "not really much new stuff going 
on, but here's what we're continuing to do" kind of information should be 
more visible, because it, too, is valuable information to somebody who is 
not involved tightly in the Debian teams.  To the insider, it's obviously 
not important as they key people keep in touch anyway.  Though in the 
specific case of the security team, the flow of security updates is an 
indication that the team is working (and I didn't want to imply that I felt 
the team was not working anyway!), so maybe your judgement was better than 
mine - it's not a case of wrong vs. right anyway.

>   To be honest I'm a little disappointed that you chose to complain
>  here about that, rather than commenting/mailing me personally.

Could've cc:ed you at least.  Apologies.


cheers
-- vbi

-- 
featured link: http://www.pool.ntp.org


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Bits from the Security Team

[Adrian von Bidder]

Hi everybody,

Allow me to point out the message at 
 
which is really a Bits from the Security Team.

Why is - once again - a message that I'd consider appropriate for d-d, or 
perhaps even d-d-a (though I admit that the real information content is not 
extremely high.  But still, it is information that Steve is active and 
outlines some of the problems and ways how people can help) hidden on a 
blog?  Ok, not that hidden, it's on planet, but still.  Fragmentation of 
Debian's communication infrastructure is something that seriously disturbs 
me because people being aware what the other people are doing is a big part 
of what defines a community.  Next we're supposed to read, in addition to 
mailing lists, planet and IRC twitter, have an account on Debian's (yet to 
be created) open source xing clone and tune in to our SAT network radio 
channel which will be relayed through open source firmware modification in 
Iridium satellites, creating screams of anguish from the single but 
important developer living at the south pole where Iridium has no coverage.

You get the picture, I'm sure :-)

(Apologies if I'm just too quick and Steve posted his Bits to d-d or d-d-a 
but the mail just hasn't reached me or the mail archives yet.)

cheers
-- vbi

[cc:s appreciated, eve though replies may not strictly be necessary]


-- 
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emacs stop working?  A win-win situation! =)
-- David Weinehall on lkml


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Re: Find complete set of debs

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Friday 07 September 2007 09.48:36 Adeodato Simó wrote:
> * Adrian von Bidder [Fri, 07 Sep 2007 07:49:19 +0200]:
> > No, all the other .deb packages that come from the same source pkg as
> > the one I have. (But usually I only want i386 and all architectures.)
> >
> > Time to properly learn grep-dctrl, I guess, that's one tool I've
> > completely neglected so far.  I guess it should provide the info if
> > invoked the right way.
>
> I guess the hard bit is the "same version" bit. Do you mean like
> downloading from snapshot.debian.net and stuff? Or is it assumed that
> versions you pass to the script will be present in the mirror's pull
> (i.e. stable or testing packages, or up to date unstable versions).

The problem occurs right after I've installed some software, so all the 
necessary data is still available in current testing/unstable/wherever.

cheers
-- vbi




-- 
OpenPGP encrypted mail welcome - my key: http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/92082481


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Re: Find complete set of debs

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Thursday 06 September 2007 19.33:50 Neil Williams wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 15:45:28 +0200
>
> Adrian von Bidder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > How can I (more or less efficiently - I do have a script but it's
> > very crude and probably buggy) download all .debs (and for bonus
> > points the source pkgs, too) that belong to some .deb that I have
> > (same src package, same version)?
>
> You mean each architecture?

No, all the other .deb packages that come from the same source pkg as the 
one I have. (But usually I only want i386 and all architectures.)

Time to properly learn grep-dctrl, I guess, that's one tool I've completely 
neglected so far.  I guess it should provide the info if invoked the right 
way.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
If you look at debian it has included a qmail-src packet that does
patch and changes your local copy of qmail to work as expected (i.e.
not the qmail way).
-- Anders Arnholm, 2001-08-28, OpenBSD ports mailing list


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Find complete set of debs

[Adrian von Bidder]

Hi!

[please cc: me.  Thank you.]

How can I (more or less efficiently - I do have a script but it's very crude 
and probably buggy) download all .debs (and for bonus points the source 
pkgs, too) that belong to some .deb that I have (same src package, same 
version)?

cheers
-- vbi




-- 
> So does the bible contain invariant sections?
It sure does:
$ bible rev22:18-19
-- Drew Parsons, in a GFDL debate


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unarchiving doesn't work?

[Adrian von Bidder]

Yo all!

I'd be happy if anybody can have a look at #376910: according to the message 
from madduck (third from the bottom atm), the bug should be open, but 
somehow this didn't work.

thanks & greetings
-- vbi

-- 
 Alle schlauen Amerikaner arbeiten bei der NSA,
   und die dürfen nicht mit Ausländern sprechen.
-- #Debian.DE


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Re: Please all dependency info into your init.d script

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Tuesday 10 July 2007 20.04:38 Russ Allbery wrote:
> Toni Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > Slapd may require an
> > external SQL server if a suitable backend is defined, and I guess that
> > a whole slew of other applications have similar problems.
>
> You should require everything you might use directly using the
> Should-Start stanza, which says that you should start after those
> services if anything provides them but that not having them available
> isn't an error.

Hmmm.  With slapd, for example, it's certainly possible where one scenario 
(slapd uses SQL database) directly contradicts another scenario (startup of 
SQL database uses auth info which is provided by slapd).

Not sure how a packager should deal with this.  (slapd being used only as an 
example.  Other scenarios for other services are certainly possible.)

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
featured link: http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/intro


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Re: Bug#427297: ITP: sturmbahnfahrer -- simulated obstacle course for automobiles

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Monday 04 June 2007 14.20:46 Frank Küster wrote:
> Michael Welle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The german term 'Sturmbahn' as in 'Sturmbahnfahrer' describes a trail
> > were you have to vanquish some barriers to train your physical
> > fitness.

[...] 

> [1] and I'm german, not swiss as my sig might suggest to some

Just some trivia since we're speaking about .ch ... it's Kampfbahn here.  
Never heard the combination with "Fahrer", though. (I'm doing military 
service, but not on troops where the Kampfbahn is our business)

-- vbi



-- 
OpenPGP encrypted mail welcome - my key: http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/92082481


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Re: Is there a way to positively, uniquely identify which Debian release a program is running on?

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Friday 01 June 2007 20.51:27 Kris Deugau wrote:
>  Instead, we try to make them work
>
> > as far as their dependencies are met.
>
> ... which means what, exactly, if my program expects
> /usr/lib/apache2/suexec but the system (stock Debian sarge) only has
> /usr/lib/apache2/suexec2?  Or vice versa for etch?

Just make sure you depend on whatever version of apache that matches where 
you expect the suexec binary to live.  Yes, you'll need to check for all 
such cases but it will get you much further than relying 
on /etc/debian_version because even people heavily mixing Debian releases 
will be happy.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
24h Business Support:
... for example, when one of our products stops working, we'll blame
another vendor within 24 hours.
-- Scott Adams/Dilbert, 2006-06-13


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Re: Is there a way to positively, uniquely identify which Debian release a program is running on?

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Wednesday 30 May 2007 22.46:30 Kris Deugau wrote:
> I've been writing custom utilities and libraries for various systems at
> work, and with one particular project recently it's become (more)
> important to know exactly which Debian release it's running on (at some
> stage or other between version-controlled-code and installed-"binary")
> so that I don't try to call a missing binary or create a .deb that
> requires a package that doesn't actually exist in the target dist.

In general: don't do that.  My machine has base-files from etch and thus can 
be considered to be etch, but there are a lot of packages from lenny and 
sid on it (including libc6, thanks to the dependency handling).  And if I 
don't reinstall the machine before lenny, it will even mix etch, lenny, 
lenny+1 and sid in a few years.  So what version is "installed" on the 
machine?

Version problems like you describe almost always boil down to versioned 
package dependencies.

Obviously, if you're in a controlled environment and you know that your 
target machines are "clean" etch or lenny, the problem becomes a lot 
easier.

cheers
-- vbi



-- 
featured product: GNU Privacy Guard - http://gnupg.org


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Re: Bug#422137: ITP: 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0 -- l33t h4x0r numb3r

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Friday 04 May 2007 20.52:07 Josselin Mouette wrote:

> Don't forget the GUI tools:
> x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
> gnome-09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
> k09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0

You forgot to make Gürkan and a few others happy:
09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0.app

-- vbi




-- 
May your Tongue stick to the Roof of your Mouth with the Force of a
Thousand Caramels.


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Re: To whoever will take over mysql (... and to everybody else thinking about playing games with version numbers)

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Friday 04 May 2007 08:45, sean finney wrote:
> hi,
>
> On Fri, 2007-05-04 at 07:52 +0200, Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> > An unfortunate string of events lead me to upgrade a server from sarge
> > to etch, using the mysql-server-4.1 package and stupidly assuming that
> > a package with the package name "mysql-server-4.1" would contain a
> > MySQL server version 4.1.

> um, shouldn't the fact that an upgrade of mysql-server-4.1 started
> installing a package named "mysql-server-5.0" have been a good hint?

Yes, certainly.  As I said, it was an unfortunate string of events, I should 
have noticed.  But having a package with the version number in it that 
doesn't contain that version was still, IMHO not the way to do it.

> anyway, this issue is moot in >= etch, since we've adopted a new
> versioning scheme which should avoid messes like this in the future.
> currently we have an empty "mysql-server" package which depends on the
> "recommended" version of mysql-server-NN, and no transitioning occurs
> otherwise (similar to how linux-image is dealt with).

Fine so far.

> the only problem 
> was to get from sarge to this without leaving anyone behind, we had to
> grease the wheels for the 4.1 users a bit.

... who might habe been just as happy to continue using 4.1 ... and, if 
necessary, update to 5.0 manually later on.

Anyway, it's done etc. so EOD.

cheers
-- vbi



-- 
A real person has two reasons for doing anything ... a good reason and
the real reason.


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To whoever will take over mysql (... and to everybody else thinking about playing games with version numbers)

[Adrian von Bidder]

Please DO NOT DO THIS AGAIN:

+++
$ apt-cache policy mysql-server-4.1
mysql-server-4.1:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 5.0.32-7etch1
  Version table:
 5.0.38-3 0
600 http://syydelaervli unstable/main Packages
 5.0.38-1 0
700 http://syydelaervli lenny/main Packages
 5.0.32-7etch1 0
800 http://syydelaervli etch/main Packages
 4.1.11a-4sarge7 0
199 http://syydelaervli sarge/updates/main Packages
199 http://syydelaervli sarge/main Packages
+++

An unfortunate string of events lead me to upgrade a server from sarge to 
etch, using the mysql-server-4.1 package and stupidly assuming that a 
package with the package name "mysql-server-4.1" would contain a MySQL 
server version 4.1.  Cost me quite some time to undo the damage (juggling 
backup tapes, merging database contents etc.) because one application is 
not entirely MySQL 5 compatible and thus partly corrupted the database.

Providing no transition path is better than this.  If aptitude had told me 
that it needs to uninstall mysql-server-4.1, I'd have noticed.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
We warn the reader in advance that the proof presented here depends on a
clever but highly unmotivated trick.
-- Howard Anton, "Elementary Linear Algebra"
-- 
If the thunder don't get you, then the lightning will.


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Re: Xorg 7.2

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Thursday 19 April 2007 03.15:21 David Nusinow wrote:
> We
> need to push XCB forward though, and how to deal with the java bug
> mentioned in that post isn't clear yet.

What I don't quite understand is how a non-free package should block this 
upgrade.

Yes, Java is used by a lot of people and I'd certainly not push this into 
testing until the problem is solved, but we're talking about unstable here.  
If Java is broken in unstable because of a Java bug (AFAIU this is really a 
Java bug, not an X bug?) and is not so easy to fix, the by all means lets 
break Java.  Somebody apparently had pressure from somebody to push Java 
into non-free, so reports that Java is broken in Debian unstable should get 
the pressure up to get it fixed, no?

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
what is the process?  Do we vote, do we pray or do we send bribes?
-- Ian Grigg, trying to get a new OpenPGP RFC out


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Re: UNSUSCRIBE

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Tuesday 17 April 2007 20.51:16 Dmitry E. Oboukhov wrote:
> man procmailrc

On gmail?

-- vbi

-- 
this email is protected by a digital signature: http://fortytwo.ch/gpg


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Xorg 7.2

[Adrian von Bidder]

Yo!

Just a quick heads-up for those who don't read planet and have been 
wondering why Xorg 7.2 is lingering in experimental: There's an excellent 
announcement on David Nusinov's blog at 
.  I wish such stuff would be 
posted to the mailing lists and not just to blogs.

To David and the other XSF people: keep on as you have the last years!  X 
just is a non-issue, and that's just what I expect from it - it just works.  
(proprietary nvidia hardware excluded, but then that's my fault for having 
such hardware ...)

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
featured product: the Apache web server - http://httpd.apache.org


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Re: many rejects (Re: Second call for votes for the debian project leader election 2007)

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Sunday 01 April 2007 23:19, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Apr 2007, Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> > IIRC signing subkeys are not accepted at package uploads, so maybe
> > that's what you were thinking about.
>
> AFAIK, they are.

Policy URLs are not accepted, that's what I was thinking about.  I use 
signing subkeys and usually a policy URL, so I just remembered that I have 
to take special steps before signing packages.  Sorry about the confusion.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
You will be awarded some great honor.


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Re: Second call for votes for the debian project leader election 2007

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Friday 30 March 2007 08.47:53 Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> > OK, so please take this honest.
>
>         I don't think I have ever been dishonest about it. Amused,
>  perhaps, dishonest, no.

Language issue.  s/honest/serious/  

Admittedly, I'm guessing.

cheers
-- vbi


-- 
The young lady had an unusual list,
Linked in part to a structural weakness.
She set no preconditions.


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Re: many rejects (Re: Second call for votes for the debian project leader election 2007)

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Thursday 29 March 2007 06.24:52 Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2007, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> > On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:52:33 -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
> >
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> > > You do not handle signing subkeys?
> >
> > What makes you think that?  Any key that is used needs to be
> >  in the debian keyring, is all.
>
> I just checked, and yes, subkeys are handled just fine.  Sorry about the
> confusion.

IIRC signing subkeys are not accepted at package uploads, so maybe that's 
what you were thinking about.

cheers
-- vbi



-- 
Today is Sweetmorn, the 18th day of Discord in the YOLD 3173


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Re: Compiling Debs on AMD vs. Intel and 32bit vs. 64bit

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Saturday 17 March 2007 09.29:10 Peter Samuelson wrote:
> "x86=64" would have been
> amusing too.  Is it a veiled Commodore 64 reference, or is it
> quoted-printable?

Not to speak of broken mime decoders that would just display x86d.

I'd rather say it's to do something with Georg Orwell.  If 2+2=5, then we 
can also have 86=64, I don't know what happens to the x, though.  Hmm.  Or 
we could just call the architecture x=0.744

cheers
-- vbi
-- 
Wer A sagt, der muß nicht B sagen. Er kann auch erkennen, daß A
falsch war.
-- Bertold Brecht


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Re: Compiling Debs on AMD vs. Intel and 32bit vs. 64bit

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Thursday 15 March 2007 20.02:14 Greg Folkert wrote:
> And for clarity, IA32 cover 32-bit Intel and works for AMD 32-bit
> processors. IA64 is the Itanium series of processors, amd64 cover the
> AMD K8/Opteron processors AND the Intel emt64* Intel processors.

... and just for completeness: x86_64 was the name the Linux kernel people 
chose for AMD64.  I don't know where the term came from, exactly.

cheers
-- vbi


-- 
Fnord.


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Re: May one use ~rc1 within versions although older lintians are complaining?

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Tuesday 13 March 2007 20.23:16 Roman Müllenschläder wrote:

> Because my laptop, where I'm building the packages on, is running Edgy ;)
>
> Maybe I should compile lintian by hand ... tried using sources from
> feisty but they need to much dependencies ...

If you're building packages for Debian, you should use a Debian machine, not 
an Ubuntu machine.  If you're building debs for Ubuntu, you should discuss 
with the Ubuntu developers if ~ in version numbers is ok with all of their 
tools.  If you're building packages just for yourself: I think all the 
relevant tools can cope with ~ for quite some time now, so you can ignore 
the lintian warning.

cheers
-- vbi


-- 
A user will find any interface design intuitive...with enough practice.


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Re: Upgrade Experiences (27 Sarges -> Etch, and counting)

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Monday 05 February 2007 17.23:28 Maarten Verwijs wrote:
> I took the plunge and upgraded about half of the Lab here to Etch.
> This is about 27 machines to date, catering almost the same amount of
> users.

Hi,

Manually?  I'd just like to point out that for 27 machines, setting up a fai 
server is definitely worth the effort!  Painless re-installs, and moving 
our fai setup from sarge to etch (including LDAP auth, NFS homes and some 
local specialties) cost me less than 2 days.

(Of course, if you really upgraded these machines manually, the RMs and many 
others are grateful for the testing :-)

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
featured product: the GNU Compiler Collection - http://gcc.gnu.org


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Re: For Those Who Care About: Switzerland/Liechtenstein

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Friday 02 February 2007 09:33, Sam Hocevar wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 02, 2007, martin f krafft wrote:
> > PS: Almost all... as first official act, I herewith announce the
> > nomination of Mark J. Ray as an honorary member of debian.ch.
> > Honorary members have no rights and no obligations, but they also
> > cannot quit.
>
>Is that legal?

No it's not.  It's what we technically call a Joke.  Debian could use more 
of them.  (And yes, I do invite people to make jokes on my expense when the 
occasion arises.)

EOT here, I hope.  Do the flaming to my private email address, or to the 
debian.ch email address.

-- vbi


-- 
Anyone can invent a security system that he himself cannot break.
-- Schneier's Law


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Re: Etch Software RAID Upgrade Trouble & Suggested Installer Improvements

[Adrian von Bidder]

Yo!

Having some rescue tools available in the installer medium is nice, but I 
usually prefer to use some full live CD system (Knoppix in my case) for the 
more involved rescue operations.  (Especially since I usually download the 
businesscard ISO to install - and limiting what's being shipped is really 
the idea behind that ISO...)

That said, many of your points are still valid.  I'm not involved in the 
installer, but at least
> 2. Netinstall image needs a ping
> 3. Netinstall's ifconfig needs to set MAC address
are probably trivial to implement and don't cost much space.

> 7. There needs to be a command to copy all data
I've wished for full acl support in tar for a long time...  At least rsync 
is now getting it.  (OT for this thread.  Still: anybody knows an archiver 
that properly handles POSIX acls?)

chers
-- vbi

-- 
Protect your privacy - encrypt your email: http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/intro


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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Monday 01 January 2007 22:20, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le lundi 01 janvier 2007 à 17:51 +0100, Marco d'Itri a écrit :
> > On Jan 01, Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > rejecting email blindly based on data as
> > > reliable as RBLs is likely to give tons of false positives.
> >
> > This can be easily disproven by anybody who does this...
>
> Of course. I'm pretty sure that nobody on this list has ever got emails
> rejected because of broken RBLs.

And of course having one or two mails (that I can remember) rejected because 
of borked RBLs is "tons of false positives"?

Besides: Linux has tons of bugs.  It still solves many of my computing 
problems.  RBLs are probably not the golden bullet either, but they're an 
important part of my spam prevention measures, and I could even remove 
the "send spam (as per spamassassin) to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to devnull" hack, 
which is much more prone to false positives, and where the false positives 
are much, much worse (senders get no indication at all) than with RBLs, 
where the sender get a bounce.

Greylisting and callout verfication are to other pieces in the puzzle, the 
latter being the one I find the most controversial, the first one being the 
one that spammers are slowly getting the hang of.  (But if the RBL get fast 
enough so that a spam sender is in the RBL by the time the sender tries to 
send the spam the 2nd time, I still have won :-)

All of these are much, much more preferrable to all measures that can only 
be used when the mail body is on my server, because (i) sending mailservers 
often don't deal properly with rejections at the DATA stage and (ii) if 
rejection is not an option, and dropping is IMHO not a good option either, 
I'll still have to look through my spam folder.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
Shutting down networkservers reguarly during worktime prevents RSI and
develops social contacts at work.


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Re: Bug#403584: RFH: apt-cacher -- caching proxy system for Debian package and source files

[Adrian von Bidder]

[There is a X-debbugs-cc header which allows easier handling of bug mail 
gated to the lists]

On Monday 18 December 2006 10:16, Eduard Bloch wrote:
> And/Or help developing or rewritting the incomplete designated
> successor, apt-cacher-ng (currently C++ with some sugar).

Not to dissuade anyone from yet another interesting project (I have my own 
share of reinvent-the-wheel projects), but I think yet another new apt 
cache project needs some justification.  What are the downsides of approx 
and apt-proxy that merit the effort of rewriting apt-cacher? (I assume the 
current apt-proxy codebase is not up to your standards if a rewrite has 
been found necessary.)

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
Some of you may have heard of this crazy company called SCO (aka
"Smoking Crack Organization") who seem to have a hard time believing
that open source works better than their five engineers do.
-- Linus Torvalds


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Re: Bug#401157: ITP: ingres -- Ingres 2006 Business Open Source Database

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Friday 01 December 2006 11:10, Paul J Stevens wrote:

> The Ingres 2006 DBMS can support a wide range of applications, from
> ad hoc queries to large-scale, mission-critical production applications
> which require 24-hour-a-day, 7-day-a-week service.  The Ingres 2006
> Intelligent DBMS features a threaded, multi-server architecture which
> can fully harness the power of today's scalable multiprocessors.

Yuck!

The package description is intended to describe the package, not advertise 
for it.  Please rework with that in mind.

Is Ingres an SQL database or something other?  What SQL dialect does it 
speak?  SQL99?  SQL92?  Subset of the latter?  Advertise, if you must, 
actual features not present in the other database systems - PostgreSQL and 
mysql both are used in "a wide range of applications, from ad hoc queries 
to large-scale, mission-critical production applications which require 
24-hour-a-day, 7-day-a-week service.".  PostgreSQL has clustering support 
and uses "the power of today's scalable multiprocessors" fully if 
configured properly.  (I have not much experience with Mysql, but I bet its 
proponents will tell you that it does that, too.)

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 47th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3172


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Re: Fwd: FC6 downloads and installs

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Saturday 25 November 2006 00:50, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 24, 2006 at 11:52:36PM +0100, Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> > I *guess* that Debian has a much higher percentage of downloads through
> > mirrors where we don't have the log files compared to FC, so this
> > obviously doesn't change that we won't be able to come even close to a
> > reasonable lower bound, though.
>
> I'd say that zero is a perfectly reasonable lower bound.  There is no
> way it can be lower than that.

It's a technically correct lower bound.

I probably should have used the word sensible instead of 
reasonable.  "Useful" comes to mind, too, but then we'd have to discuss 
what use that number is to us, which I'd rather skip (because I don't 
really think download numbers are very useful).  Perhaps "interesting" 
could be used - zero certainly is not an interesting lower bound.  

Pick your own.

  210 Moby Thesaurus words for "sensible":
 acknowledging, acquainted with, admissible, alive to, all there,
 all-knowing, apperceptive, appercipient, appreciable, appreciative,
 appreciative of, apprehending, apprehensible, apprehensive,
 apprised of, ascertainable, awake to, aware, aware of, balanced,
 behind the curtain, behind the scenes, beholden, bright, budget,
 cheap, clearheaded, clearminded, cogent, cognizable, cognizant,
 cognizant of, commonsense, compos mentis, comprehending,
 conceptive, conceptual, concrete, conscious, conscious of,
 considerable, cool, coolheaded, corporeal, credible, crediting,
 delicate, detectable, discernible, discreet, discursive,
 down-to-earth, earthy, easy, economic, economy, emotionable,
 evident, feeling, frugal, good, grateful, gross, hardheaded,
 healthy-minded, hep to, ideational, impressible, impressionable,
 impressive, in the know, in the secret, indebted to, inexpensive,
 informed of, insightful, intellectual, intelligent, judicious,
 just, justifiable, knowing, knowledgeable, legitimate, let into,
 levelheaded, live, logical, low, low-priced, lucid, manageable,
 manifest, material, matter-of-fact, mentally sound, mindful,
 mindful of, moderate, modest, much obliged, no stranger to, noetic,
 nominal, normal, not so dumb, noticeable, objective, obliged,
 observable, obvious, of sound mind, omniscient, on to, palpable,
 passible, patent, perceivable, perceptible, perceptive, percipient,
 perspicacious, phenomenal, philosophical, physical, plausible,
 ponderable, positivistic, practical, practical-minded, pragmatic,
 prehensile, privy to, prudent, rational, real, realist, realistic,
 reasonable, reasoned, receptive, recognizable, respectable,
 responsive, right, sagacious, sage, sane, sane-minded, scientific,
 scientistic, secular, seeable, seized of, sensational, sensible of,
 sensible to, sensile, sensitive, sensitive to, sentient, shabby,
 shoddy, shrewd, significant, sober, sober-minded, soft,
 softhearted, solid, sophic, sound, sound-minded, sound-thinking,
 straight-thinking, streetwise, strong-minded, substantial,
 substantive, susceptible, susceptive, sympathetic, tangible,
 tender, tenderhearted, thankful, together, token, undeceived,
 under obligation, understanding, unexpensive, unideal,
 unidealistic, unromantic, unsentimental, visible, warmhearted,
 weighable, well-argued, well-balanced, well-founded, well-grounded,
 well-thought-out, wholesome, wise, wise to, within means, worldly,
 worth the money

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
Build a system that even a fool can use, and only a fool will use it.


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Re: Fwd: FC6 downloads and installs

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Sunday 19 November 2006 01:35, Michelle Konzack wrote:
[FC core download stats]
> Blahblah!
...
> So the download statistics would be false anyway.

It's not necessary to be so arrogant. In their email, they acknowledge that 
proxies etc. have influenced their stats.  Their numbers are a lower bound, 
and if their update tool by default doesn't use non-RH mirrors, probably a 
quite reasonable one.

I *guess* that Debian has a much higher percentage of downloads through 
mirrors where we don't have the log files compared to FC, so this obviously 
doesn't change that we won't be able to come even close to a reasonable 
lower bound, though.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
featured product: Debian GNU/Linux - http://debian.org


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Re: [RFC] new virtual package names for optical discs burning applications

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Friday 17 November 2006 15:22, George Danchev wrote:
> * `cd-burner' -- could be provided by wodim, cdrskin, (cdrdao ?)
> * `dvd-burner' -- could be provided by wodim, dvd+rw-tools and
> dvdrecord

I don't know the programs in question exactly, but how likely is it that 
even wodim and cdrecord will stay commandline compatible?

If they can't be used with the exact same commandline, there's no sense in 
providing these virtual packages because the programs need explicit support 
for each of those programs.  (And especially with these writing 
applications, arcane options need to be specified in many cases, so it's 
not a case of a common API with some few extra options a backend might use 
if it has specific support.)

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
featured product: Debian GNU/Linux - http://debian.org


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Re: Request for Help/Comments: fvwm95

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Wednesday 08 November 2006 16:10, Daniel Martin wrote:
[killing off fvwm95]
> Now, what do people think of this idea?

Anything that lessens the number of different window managers in Debian is a 
Good Thing(tm) ;-)

popularity contest says this about the various fvwm packages:

#rank nameinst  vote   old recent no-files 
1726  fvwm1078   515   47093 0  
   
3897  fvwm-crystal 109494317 0  
   
4640  fvwm95   464209111   342  
   
6770  fvwm1 311117 3 0  
   
9068  fvwm-icons   793 0 0 0   793  
   

so fvwm95 still has some users.  How about killing fvwm1, too, which seems 
to have even fewer users?  No new upstream uploaded to Debian since 1997. 

(I don't know anything about these window managers, perhaps there are some 
devoted fvwm1 followers so keeping it may be mandated.  Somebody at least 
cared enough to NMU it recently. popcon numbers alone should certainly not 
be the only source for deciding this.)

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
featured link: http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/subkeys


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Purging configurations of non-installed transitional packages

[Adrian von Bidder]

Yodel!

Since I hate having tons of configuration files lying around from my various 
tests (and build-dep installing orgies), I do "dpkg -l | grep ^rc | cut -f 
3 -d \  | xargs dpkg -P" every now and then.  Actually, I first look at the 
list, and this proved very important here...

What happened: Somehow, I seem to have transitioned from sarge ssh to 
openssh-client/-server directly without first installing the 'ssh' 
transitional package because I installed some package which depended on 
openssh-client directly.  With the above operation, I then tried to purge 
the old ssh package - which, obviously, blew my ssh configuration along 
with the 'sshd' user.  In this case, I was prepared because I had an idea 
that this could happen - but nonetheless, I think it shouldn't.

How to prevent this?  (btw: ntp has the same problem: /var/lib/ntp was 
removed without me noticing.  Obviously this is not near as bad, as it 
won't even stop ntp working)

Huge hack #1: openssh-server (new package) knows the contents of the old 
ssh.preinst/ssh.postinst, so it could remove those file on installation or 
replace them by newer ones that take into account the transition.  
Obviously this is dangerous and should probably be secured by md5 of the 
known files.

Huge hack #2: openssh-server/openssh-client know that they're replacing the 
old package.  So they could just remove records of ssh from the database of 
installed packages by surgery.  I feel that this one could even be made 
official if specified properly as a method to transition package names  
(and replacing surgery by official sourcery by dpkg).  OTOH there's bound 
to be many pitfalls, and probably no two transitions are ever the same.

Other methods?  The only sane way I can think of is a hard dependency on the 
transitional package for a full release cycle.  But that means keeping 
useless packages around for a long time :-(

Yes, it all only was a problem because I was mixing stable and testing, but 
I think being able to do that is one of the biggest assets Debian GNU/Linux 
has over other distributions, so making this as easy as possible is A Good 
Thing(tm) in my book.

cheers
-- vbi


-- 
featured link: http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/subkeys


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Re: ITP: libauthen-simple-perl -- Simple and consistent framework for authentication

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Friday 03 November 2006 11:12, Xavier Oswald wrote:
>   Description : Simple and consistent framework for authentication
>
>  This is the basis package for various authentication methods.

This description should be a bit extended.

Authentication in what context?  Do I need this when I want to build a web 
application, or when I want to build (backend) code hooking into PAM, or 
into what?

thanks
-- vbi

-- 
featured product: the Apache web server - http://httpd.apache.org


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Re: bts behaviour - versioning issue?

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Saturday 23 September 2006 11:17, Steve Langasek wrote:
[...]

Ok, thanks everybody.

(Steve, I hope you do something today besides explaining things to me ;-)

cheers
-- vbi


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Protect your privacy - encrypt your email: http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/intro


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bts behaviour - versioning issue?

[Adrian von Bidder]

Yodel!

When I look at , I'm confused at the 
information for #309511, which is listed as outstanding (wishlist), 
but "Done" and "Archived".

Can anybody tell me why?

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
featured link: http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/subkeys


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I want one of those!

[Adrian von Bidder]

Now I'm not a buildd operator nor do I have any experience on non-x86 
arches, but a 16 core MIPS 1U server that only pulls 50W power and that 
ships with Debian preinstalled just has a very high coolness factor :-)

http://www.movidis.com/products/rev.asp
http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=192201783&subSection=Breaking+News

(Ok, I know this is OT for d-d.  You can all go back to bashing JS now.)

-- vbi


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Re: VMware packaging

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Sunday 13 August 2006 02:25, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> Le dim 13 août 2006 02:06, Peter Collingbourne a écrit :
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I found there were no VMware-related packages in the official
> > repository, nor any way of creating them.  Thus I propose to create
> > a tool that will build (for example for VMware Server) vmware-server
> > and vmware-modules-source packages based on an installation tarball
> > (a la java-package).
>
> why would we need it when there is already quite plenty of good free
> alternatives (qemu, bochs e.g.) ?

vmware
 * is quite fast
 * does suspend/resume quite beautifully
 * the integration with the guest OS via the vmware tools is quite nice
 * as are shared folders if you're using a Windows guest
 * using snapshots and clones based off them are quite useful

Do qemu and/or bochs provide all of those?  I use those features regularly 
and would welcome such packages.  Of course, I'd welcome a Free alternative 
to vmware even more, but it's just not there atm.

cheers
-- vbi


-- 
Could this mail be a fake? (Answer: No! - http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/intro)


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Re: Stuff the installer does which isn't done on upgrade....

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Thursday 03 August 2006 06:24, Nathanael Nerode wrote:
> So upgraded systems don't get the benefits of certain changes to the
> installer's defaults, or defaults in programs used by the installer.



Anyobdy (Marco d'Itri?) can add some comments regarding the udev/dbus/hal 
(.../pcmcia-cs/hotplug/usbwhatever/...) situation to that page?  Or does 
the normal upgrade from a default sarge installation (2.4 based!) to a 
default etch installation provide everything already through dependencies?

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
Jesus is my duct tape.
-- Robert Lindsay on alt.religion.kibology


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Re: Debian architectures, according to popularity-contest

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Monday 31 July 2006 08:18, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> I
> believe there are a large percentage of machines without
> popularity-contest installed for all the architectures, and that this
> do not skew the result significantly for any of the architecture.

I'd be prepared to believe *some* bias against the smaller arches because 
those are more frequently used in embedded environments where running 
popcon is just out of the question.

OTOH many embedded machines are i386 based, too, so your assumption is 
probably just as close to the truth as mine.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 68th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3172


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Re: New Naming Convention

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Tuesday 25 July 2006 19:22, Jeremy Herndon wrote:
> We have used 10 toy stoy names over a period of 10 years. That is a good
> round number and would be a logical place to start anew.

Logical?  Hmm, well, as far as I know "logic" has something to do with 
causes and effects, which I can't see here, exactly.

And - has the release team moved the release date?  IIRC this debate is 
supposed to happen less than a month before the release and claim to be of 
utmost importancy for the future of the universe^W^WDebian.

Jeremy: no hard feelings.  The last few times when a "let's change 
naming/versioning of our releases" discussion came up, it was widely agreed 
that chosing version numbers and release codenames was one of the few 
rewards for our hard-working release team.

-- vbi

(Hmmm.  Model/Actress names are now available for use, now that the scripts 
have been renamed.  Yay Debian Noemi 4.1!)

-- 
Love the sea?  I dote upon it -- from the beach.


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Re: greylisting on debian.org?

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Wednesday 19 July 2006 00:13, Stephen Gran wrote:
> This one time, at band camp, Thomas Bushnell BSG said:
> > Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > >  Can we get greylisting now?
> >
> > We have it, duh.  Have you not been paying attention?
>
> We don't have it yet.  Have you not been paying attention?  The only
> delay we have now is due to spam clogged queues and load.

Stop it right now.

alioth has greylisting.  This whole discussion has, though, never been about 
alioth.  I guess you *both* know that already since you've read the 
discussion.  So don't play silly just for the sake of it, please.

-- vbi

-- 
All computers wait at the same speed.


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Greylisting: discussion should stop here, for now (Re: greylisting on debian.org?)

[Adrian von Bidder]

Apart from the fact that the opinions seem to be set (and haven't really 
changed since the last time the discussion came up IIRC, so we really can 
stop arguing - nothing new for quite some time...): am I correct in my 
observation that nobody who has participated in this discussion up to now 
is involved in Debian email administration?  I had a quick look at 
, but I didn't really check all 
names.

So even if the discussion leans in favor of greylisting on RBL (SBL+XBL? Or 
also DUL, spamcop, ...?): is there any chance of this getting anywhere?

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
Computer programmers don't byte, they nibble a bit.


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NFSv4

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Monday 17 July 2006 17:00, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 17, 2006 at 01:18:41PM +, Marc Brockschmidt wrote:
> > There was a new request for another approved release goal, that is NFS
> > v4 support.  We approved that goal.
>
> AFAICS, that goal has been completed for a while.

Small question that could help improving performance here :-)

Does the current NFSv4 implementation already allow client-side on-disk 
caching?  IIRC the standard does specify it, but a quick look at 
linux-nfs.org confuses me - some pages speak about delegations, but OTOH 
the end user pages like 
http://wiki.linux-nfs.org/index.php/NFSv4_Introduction don't mention 
anything.



-- 
Frink!


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Re: greylisting on debian.org?

[Adrian von Bidder]

[sending systems that don't deal with greylisting]

On Monday 17 July 2006 17:36, Magnus Holmgren wrote:
[...]
> Also, this kind of information can be
> shared so that not every mail admin has to find it out himself by users
> complaining.

Some data points:
 * the default greylist shipped by greylist is growing only quite slow, so 
apparently the big players are in there by now.
 * big pools are only the smallest part of that whitelist, so this 
discussion is a bit silly.  The really problematic sites are not really rfc 
compliant: sites that don't retry at all, or that retry with different 
sender addresses (which from the pov of greylisting is the same, 
obviously.)

So the question is, imho, not if we should potentially lock out users of big 
mail pools - those are in the default whitelists anyway by now.  The 
question is: can we temporarily (until they can be whitelisted) lock out 
users of "standards?-who-needs-standards?" systems that don't implement 
sensible queueing.  Many of these sites are small - but there are also a 
few bigger names: Yahoo groups, Amazon, Roche, Motorola. (According to 
postgrey's default whitelist.  Some of these are from 2004 or earlier, and 
AFAIK nobody tries to verify if these systems are still stupid in that 
way.)

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
Wie man sein Kind nicht nennen sollte:
  Hanno Ferr


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Re: greylisting on debian.org?

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Monday 10 July 2006 06:58, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Doing sender verification and graylisting are both violations of the
> RFCs.

Which rfcs and where, exactly?  Specific filename, version and line numbers, 
as Kimball would say it.

AFAICT, the protocol allows the receiving end to temporarily reject email, 
and the sending end will retry.  AFAICT QUIT is allowed after RCPT TO to 
abort a mail transaction - and sender verification is no different from a 
normal mail transaction in the view of the receiver.

-- vbi

-- 
featured link: http://fortytwo.ch/smtp


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Re: greylisting on debian.org?

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Monday 10 July 2006 02:17, Matthew R. Dempsky wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 09, 2006 at 05:02:39PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > Another problem is with hosts that do not accept a message from an MTA
> > unless that MTA is willing to accept replies.  This is a common spam
> > prevention measure.
>
> It also prevents mail from setups that use different servers for inbound
> and outbound mail.

Hmm.  I've not seen this kind of sender verification.  As I know it, the 
receiving MX connects the regular MX for the sender address to see if 
*that* is ready to receive mail.  Works beautifully if outbound != inbound.

While very effective, this is admittedly the kind of spam prevention measure 
which puts some load on the systems on both ends.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
featured product: the KDE desktop - http://kde.org


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Re: greylisting on debian.org?

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Sunday 09 July 2006 15:48, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
[greylisting]
> The point was about mailers sending mail to debian. If they receive a
> 4xx they have to queue the mail and retry later. It's cheap for
> debian, but expensive for everyone else.

Does anybody have sensible numbers about that?

On my relatively small server, I usually have between 0 and 40 messages in 
the deferred queue.  Of those, up to 1 or 2 are due to greylisting.  All 
others are because recipients have crap mailservers or nameservers.

As madduck said: either you are small, so your mailserver isn't loaded 
anyway, or you're big, so the additional load from greylisting isn't 
noticeable, or you're a spammer.

Hmm.  Discussing mail problems on irc while answering mailing list mail in a 
mail setup related mail thread mail confuses me mail. can't mail stop mail.

cheers
-- mail

-- 
Perl: The Swiss Army Chainsaw


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Re: Bug#359073: Net/RBLClient.pm (postgreyreport)

[Adrian von Bidder]

> On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 21:51, Adrian von Bidder wrote:
  ^
[... package doesn't exist, perhaps somebody on [EMAIL PROTECTED] has time to 
do 
the package? ... ]

On Sunday 09 July 2006 22:17, you wrote:
   ^
> Done.

Now that is what I call response time!  Huge thank you!  And this even 
during the soccer WM finale (congrats to you Italians down there! ;-)

> The package is in the Debian Perl Group's svn repository.
> Could someone please check/upload it?

Sorry, got to go to bed now, so your effort won't bear fruits just now.  
Kinda spoils the fun :-(

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
featured product: the KDE desktop - http://kde.org


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Re: Bug#376521: ITP: kwlan -- wpasupplicant frontend for KDE

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Monday 03 July 2006 17:16, Fathi Boudra wrote:
> Hi Reinhard,
>
> > Perhaps you are interested in joining the pkg-wpa team on alioth [1]?
[...]
> There's many K wireless tools but none really perfect maybe
> we can cooperate to have only one good tool nicely integrated with
> wpa_supplicant.

Yodel!

As a user: can we please try to have wireless network profiles etc. stored 
as far away from the gui as possible?  No need for the commandline, gnome, 
KDE, xfce and gnustep wireless applets have their own set of stored 
profiles, when they're using the same backend logic anyway...

(Perhaps this is already the case here, so sorry for bugging you, but in 
general the scenario I describe above is what usually happens.  mobile 
network is still new enough so that maybe this time the mess can be 
avoided...)

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
Error: Problem exists between keyboard and chair.


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Re: some Debian Apache Maintainer here ?

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Sunday 18 June 2006 07:51, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
[...]
> > Without knowing or having asked Adam, this seems like help might be
> > welcome.
>
> Useful patches and comments are always welcome.  Threats of NMUs and
> similar aren't.

Tollef, you realise that neither me nor Marc (who has started this thread) 
have ever talked about NMUs?  Marc merely offered his help - and it seems 
that there seemed to be a lack of communication from the Apache team's side 
in the past.

cheers
-- vbi


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Re: egroupware upgrade drops several applications -- suggestions?

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Friday 16 June 2006 13:52, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> The upgrade to the new egroupware upstream drops several applications 
> [...]  On the other hand, if a sarge->etch 
> upgrade potentially throws away a bunch of functionality and data, users
> won't be happy.
>
> What to do?

Rename the package, and drop the old package name from etch.  Add a section 
to the release notes that users wanting to upgrade must manually do so but 
will lose functionality, while users wanting to retain the functionality 
will have no security support anymore.

Technically probably a clean solution, but since "nobody" ever reads the 
release notes, it *will* create problems in terms of some nasty "Debian 
lets egroupware users standing in the rain" /. article or so.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
Best file compression around: "DEL *.*" = 100% compression


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Re: some Debian Apache Maintainer here ?

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Thursday 15 June 2006 16:06, Marc Chantreux wrote:

> Is there a way to help/join/"have news from" the apache team ?

Have you tried contacting the apache maintainers directly? (I'd cc such 
mails to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list, just for the record)

The changelog.Debian.gz of apache2 and apache lists
 * Adam Conrad (apaprently currently the only active apache person)

Yep. That's right, Adam seems to be the Debian Apache Team at the moment.  
No wonder he doesn't need a mailing list to coordinate with himself... :-/  
There have been some uploads by Amaya, Fabio and Thoma May, but that was 
back in 2004.

Without knowing or having asked Adam, this seems like help might be welcome.

cheers
-- vbi

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Re: some Debian Apache Maintainer here ?

[Adrian von Bidder]

Marc cc:ed, not sure if you're on the list.

On Thursday 15 June 2006 16:06, Marc Chantreux wrote:
> I've posted a patch to fix #350119, #342008, #350119 139 days ago and
> have no news about it. I tried to contact the apache team to know if i
> was able to help  but i have no news.

There is the debian-apache mailing list.  I don't ee much life there, 
though, except for bts email.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
featured product: the Apache web server - http://httpd.apache.org


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Re: debian/ search

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Monday 05 June 2006 18:18, Eto Yasuo wrote:
> hi
>
> I just a thought search debian/ include package.
> I'd try the idea out, use gonzui.
>
> http://debian-src.devel.jp

Nice idea.

What exactly is included in the search?  All source packages?  All binary & 
source packages?  Debian mailing list archives and web site, too?  I think 
a very brief deescription on the title page would be very nice - hunting in 
the "about" pages seems very non-debian specific.


(Oh, and: the search should also support whitespace source code!)


cheers
-- vbi

-- 
featured link: http://fortytwo.ch/smtp


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Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 4

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Wednesday 10 May 2006 16:21, Daniel Schepler wrote:
> Le Mardi 09 Mai 2006 22:49, Bill Allombert a écrit :
> > Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers 
>
> ...
>
> > libkcal2b
> > libkdepim1a
>
> It looks like these two have circular dependencies because libkdepim
> depends on libkcal, while a couple of the standard libkcal plugins
> (namely kcal_kabc.so and kcal_remote.so) depend on libkdepim.  I don't
> see any easy way to disentangle these.

At least three possibilities:

(*) most systems probably have both installed anyway, so why not merge the 
packages? (Back to kdepim-libs...)

(*) have libkcal2b only recommend libkdepim1a

(*) split libkcal2b into the lib and a separate libkcal-plugins package.

-- vbi

-- 
Confession is good for the soul only in the sense that a tweed coat is
good for dandruff.
-- Peter de Vries


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Re: Bug#365087: ITP: debcheck -- Checks whether dependencies of debian packages can be satisfied

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Thursday 27 April 2006 21:53, Ralf Treinen wrote:
> The constraint solving algorithm is complete, that is it finds a
> solution whenever there exists one, even for multiple disjunctive
> dependencies and deep package conflicts. This problem is computationally
> intractable in theory (that is, NP-complete), but can in practice be
> solved very efficiently.

Can you elaborate?  I can see 3 possibilities: 

 * P = NP and upstream found this and sits on the result
 * The (NP complete) problem the tool claims to solve is not the exact 
problem the tool solves in reality, thus the tool solves a different 
problem.
 * The problem is NP complete but this is not relevant yet, with only a few 
1 thousand packages.  Try with a few 10 packages and be prepared to 
wait hours and/or invest in a few TB main memory... ;-)

I guess it's the second, or perhaps the thirs.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
If this fortune didn't exist, somebody would have invented it.


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Re: Installation is FANTASTIC!!!

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Wednesday 19 April 2006 10:37, you wrote:
> The stable version installed so easily and well I just
> couldn't believe it.  It is now far easier to install Debian than
> Windows XP - yes - really.  And I'm not a regular Linux user.

What praise.  Thank you very much!

I just had to laugh out loud, because that other email is less than a week 
old: 

(For those not speaking German:  Mr. Werner's opinion of Debian couldn't be 
more differrent from Barry Drake's  and he's complaining about pretty 
much architecture independent stuff, so him using the inofficial AMD64 port 
doesn't matter.)

cheers
-- vbi




-- 
 How do I bind a computer to an NIS server?
 Use a rope?
-- Seen on #Debian


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Re: Bug#362040: ITP: rt2x00 -- RT2400/2500/2570 wireless network drivers

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Wednesday 12 April 2006 00:23, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> * Package name: rt2x00

> This package would contain version 2 of the rt2x00 drivers that are
> currently distributed as separate rt2400 and rt2500 packages (and a
> proposed rt2570 package).

Did you talk with Aurelien (maintainer of rt2400-source/2500-source)?  I'm 
just wondering - perhaps he has already worked on something like this, or 
planned to do so shortly?

>  It probably belongs in experimental initially.

I don't see why - there isn't an existing rt2x00 that would be replaced by a 
potentially non-working new version, so it won't do any harm in unstable, 
while getting wider exposure than it would in experimental.  A 'don't 
migrate to testing' RC bug would be a good idea, though.

greetings
-- vbi


-- 
Available for key signing in Zürich and Basel, Switzerland
(what's this? Look at http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/intro)


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Re: RFS: libuninameslist -- a library of Unicode annotation data

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Sunday 09 April 2006 10:45, Michael Banck wrote:
> Hi,

[libuninameslist]

> On Sun, Apr 09, 2006 at 11:26:15AM +0300, K?stutis Bili?nas wrote:
> > I'd be very glad if someone of you could sponsor them for me.
>
> Thanks for your contribution to Debian, but sponsorship requests should
> go to -mentors, no need to CC -devel.

I'm sure somebody on the new pkg-fonts-devel list will take care of this.  
If nobody else steps forward, I will, but I'll need somebody to look over 
my shoulders as I've not packaged a library before.

-- vbi

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Re: problem with packaging

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Friday 07 April 2006 15:43, jean wrote:
> hi,
> i'm trying to create a package for sarge (it is my first experience in
> packet creation ), i tried to do this from an existing packet, i have
> decompacted the packet, i modified some things, and i re-packaged the
> folder.

As others have said: you'd rarely create binary packages 'out of thin air' - 
usually you'd write/modify a Debian source package (this is a .tar.gz file, 
an optional .diff.gz file and a .dsc file) and use standard Debian tools 
(dpkg-buildpackage, debuild or some others) to create a new binary package.

Here are some URLs to get you started:


  (These are some slides - not very verbose, but might give you a quick 
idea)

  (This will get you started quite efficiently)

  (this is the definitive reference on Debian packages.  Probably not what 
you'd want to start with, though.)

greetings
-- vbi

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MIA: Thomas Fasth? (was: Re: About the maintainance of monotone)

[Adrian von Bidder]

QA/MIA people: are you reading this (below)?  Or Thomas - perhaps you have 
time to dropa a quick note yourself?

cheers
-- vbi

On Tuesday 04 April 2006 23:46, Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I wonder if there's a way to figure out what the status of the
> monotone package is.  The current Debian package is 0.24-1+b1,
> while the upstreams version is 0.25 and soon moving to 0.26.
>
> I and other monotone developers have tried to reach the maintainer
> (Tomas Fasth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) for a bit now, with no apparent
> success.  Can anyone tell us what has become of him, if he still
> intends to do the great maintainance (and give feedback to the
> monotone project) that he did up until 0.24 was released, or if it's
> time that someone else takes up the maintainer role?
>
> Sincerely,
> Richard
>
> --
> Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://richard.levitte.org/
>
> "When I became a man I put away childish things, including
>  the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
>   -- C.S. Lewis

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Re: Bug#357703: udev breaks syslog

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Tuesday 28 March 2006 18:15, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Mar 28, Gabor Gombas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > How about restarting syslog (or it's equivalent) after relocating the
> > old /dev? glibc already has infrastructure for restarting services on
> > upgrade, maybe udev can borrow that.
>
> Harder than it looks. There are multiple syslog daemons, how can the
> package know which one is installed and needs to be restarted?

Look in /proc and find out which process has the log socket open?  If that 
process belongs to one of the packaged syslog implementations (there aren't 
that many!) restart it.

(Taking advantage of the fact that IIRC processes printing log messages open 
and close the socket for every messages, so looking a few times until 
abs(the intersection of all processes on that socket) == 1 should be safe.

-- vbi

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Re: When to drop/split/summ changelog files

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Sunday 26 March 2006 20:18, Nico Golde wrote:
> Hi,
> what would be the appropriate way to handle large and old
> debian changelog files.

Rather arbitrarily, just feels more or less safe:  cut everything from 
before oldstable release.  Based on the assumption that oldstable -> stable 
updates occur more or less over the whole stable+1 development circle.

So currently, I'd cut everything that pre-dates woody release - probably 
nobody will do a potato -> woody upgrade.  But woody is still quite a bit 
in use, and so those people could track the changelog without looking at 
multiple versions even if they do partial upgrades and their system spans 
woody to sid.  (Obviously some person will have a system spanning potato to 
sid and miss the most relevant entry.  So never cutting changelogs is 
another very obvious possibility)

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
Man kommt in der Ehe am besten aus, wenn man nicht liebt; sowie am
besten, wenn man bloß liebt.
-- Jean Paul


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Re: freetype package

[Adrian von Bidder]

Yo!

No idea what this [below] is about exactly, but are you aware of the newly 
formed Debian fonts task-force?  Mailing list is 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Greetings

-- vbi

On Friday 24 March 2006 19:19, Anthony Fok wrote:
> Will Newton wrote:
> > This package hasn't had a maintainer upload in 12 months. It is
> > currently at version 2.1.7 whilst upstream is in the process of
> > releasing 2.1.10. These new releases include some quite critical
> > bugfixes and visual improvements.
> >
> > Is this package being actively maintained? I volunteer to help out with
> > packaging, but I think freetype requires at least one maintainer who is
> > familiar with CJK fonts (i.e. not me).
>
> Hello Will!
>
> Sorry for taking so long to reply your e-mail!  I was too busy to attend
> to my Debian matters last year, and I'm very glad that you adopted the
> FreeType 2 package and keep it up-to-date!  :-)
>
> I read in the changelog that you are looking for co-maintainer(s).  I'm
> wondering if I could become one?  :-)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Anthony Fok

-- 
The ants in France, stay mainly on the plants.


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Re: We want to honestly apoligize to the whole Debian Community

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Thursday 23 March 2006 00:56, Frans Pop wrote:

> Myself, I'm a KDE user currently, so why do I not propose to sync
> Debian's release to their release schedule? Or why not MySQL, or Apache
> or ...? Because I happen to know that releasing Debian involves a bit
> more than waiting for random upstream releases.

I know: we need to sync Debian's releases to releases of that new brainfuck 
interpreter (compiler?) that was packaged recently.  After all, the new 
bfdebconf frontend is written in that language, so it's a critical part of 
our infrastructure.

-- vbi

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You had mail, but the super-user read it, and deleted it!


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Re: Уникальные семинары!

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Wednesday 22 March 2006 18:06, Daniel Gimpelevich wrote:
[challenge response email systems]
> Would I be wrong in deciding not to make this
> confirmation?

Easy enough:  if you receive a confirmation request identifying the message 
far enough for you to decide that it was spam with your email address as 
sender address forged in, confirm it.  Else, delete it or forward it to the 
abuse desk of where it came from (much good that that will do...)

For some time, I received several dozens of confirmation requests because my 
email address was used as sender of some spam.  I had some satisfaction in 
knowing that all this spam was properly confirmed and forwarded to their 
proper recipients...

-- vbi

-- 
Today is Pungenday, the 10th day of Discord in the YOLD 3172


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Re: For those who care about stable updates

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Saturday 11 March 2006 09:10, Kevin Mark wrote:
> -- vbi:
> > Kevin:

[mediation]
> > > After the meeting everyone would agree to not discuss anything in
> > > public and only redress further problems by arranging another private
> > > irc session.
> >
> > Hmm.  I agree with you that solving these problems is behind the scenes
> > work.  But I think a solution worked out by a mediator ought to be
> > published,
[...]
> I would agree as long as the statement is worded to both parties
> agreement.

Well, as far as I understand it, the outcome being some sort of agreement 
between the parties is quite the definition of mediation.  If that can't be 
reached, the mediation has failed (and, in real-life, it is time to go to 
the judges or to change jobs or ... - the question is: what would we do in 
Debian's case?)

cheers
-- vbi

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Re: For those who care about stable updates

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Saturday 11 March 2006 03:27, Kevin Mark wrote:
[DPL as mediator]

The DPL already could do that.  The DPL probably in the past *did* step in 
in some cases behind the scenese.  There's no reason for the technical 
overhead of a mediator@ email alias - there's leader, and people who trust 
the DPL to be able to mediate conflicts can reach him there.

Mediation can only work if all parties accept the mediator as a person of 
respect/authority who is capabable of working out a fair solution and 
accept that a mediator will help.  Otherwise, it'll be just an additional 
party in the debate - no win.

> After the meeting everyone would agree to not discuss anything in public 
> and only redress furthur problems by arranging another private irc
> session.  

Hmm.  I agree with you that solving these problems is behind the scenes 
work.  But I think a solution worked out by a mediator ought to be 
published, because often enough the problem is also the subject of frequent 
discussions and flamewars, often also between people not actually involved 
in the problem (and thus the mediation.)  Mediation is about finding a 
solution, not about blaming anybody, so publication of the mediation's 
result should be constructive instead of 'he was guilty'.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
Tapferkeit ist die Fähigkeit, von der eigenen Furcht keine Notiz zu
nehmen.
-- George Patton


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Re: For those who care about stable updates

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Thursday 09 March 2006 18:41, Amaya wrote:

> ... focus on attacking Ubuntu

Ah, yes, we need an enemy so we can unite against it.  Old-fashioned 
tactics, proved to work.

-- vbi
/me is trying to imagine the Debian project's members trying to agree on an 
enemy...

-- 
One picture is worth 128K words.


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Re: For those who care about stable updates

[Adrian von Bidder]

ObIntro: I add my thanks to all the others'

On Thursday 09 March 2006 14:38, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> What's wrong with us ? I just read some messages with a "no Martin,
> can we revert it?", it seems that the default reply is "ok Martin, see
> you, thanks.".
>
> It's volunteer work, he's free to do whatever he wants and spend his
> time with more pleasant tasks, but when will we try to solve some of
> the real problems we have instead going through the easy way that is
> "ok, who's going to take that task?". It's clear that the new stable
> maintainer or group will have at least some of the current problems.
> Don't you care ?

I feel the 'when are we going to solve the real problems' have been 
discussed so many times before (ftpmasters, DSA, RM, security team perhaps, 
NEW queue processing, probably at least the last 4 DPL elections, ...).  
Always, at least some of the people involved have not joined the 
discussion.  As somebody who was involved in trying to solve such a problem 
without involving the affected people, I ask you to think again: what do 
you think would really change anything?  A solution that will work needs to 
involve the affected people.  A "solution" being worked out By The 
Masses(tm), involving heated flamewars etc. etc. will most certainly not 
work.

It's sad, yes, but I think it's just the way people work.  Debian is a city 
now, not a village anymore - lots of people know lots of other people not 
very well or not at all.  This probably includes people in important 
functions, although the various face to face meetings have improved this in 
some areas.  Right now we're trying to cope with city problems using 
village methods - has not worked in the Real World, won't work in an online 
community.

cheers
-- vbi
(I don't have sociological, economical or historical background at all, so 
the above is pure pub-level opinion utterance. YMMV.)

-- 
This bug is quite subtle and only happens in a very interesting
situation where a real-time threaded process is in the middle of a
coredump when someone whacks it with a SIGKILL.
-- Bhavesh P. Davda, describing a Linux kernel bug


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Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Thursday 02 March 2006 04:46, Jaldhar H. Vyas wrote:
> Package: libacme-brainfck-perl
> Provides: libacme-brainfuck-perl

Ah, and back to the time when some words where magic and caused burn marks 
on the paper around the ink.

I never have and probably never will see why some people find 'f*ck' less 
offensive than they find 'fuck'. Or - on air - beep.  Language is mostly 
about transporting content, and a beep sound or written f*ck conveys 
exactly the same meaning as a plain 'fuck' (or, in the case of sound, a 
beep stresses the fact that a dirty magic word was said all the more.)

But back to business, don't mind me
-- vbi
(.sig moderated to avoid dirty filters, of course.)

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Re: TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Monday 20 February 2006 07:40, Christian Perrier wrote:
> So, I hereby propose to think about a possible TTF fonts packaging
> team.

A comment as a pure user insofar as fonts are concerned:  I don't care if 
what I see comes from a ttf, metafont, ps, bdf or PEX font.  I just want 
the font to be available everywhere.  So I'd suggest that at least ttf and 
ps fonts should be managed in some common way - so a font packaging (or 
policy?) team may want to look at more than just ttf fonts.

cheers
-- vbi

(Yes, I realize that bdf and PEX are dying or dead, and that there probably 
is currently support for TeX/Metafont fonts in X/Pango/whatever KDE 
uses ;-)

(Hmmm.  I think I forgot Linux console bitmap fonts...  Or are these bdf, 
too?)



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Re: Automatic testing of .deb's

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Monday 06 February 2006 19:53, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> On 2/6/06, Ian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[ filing automatic package tests to the Debian bts ]

> The Ubuntu maintainer should always open bugs with the test related stuff
> and see if the Debian maintainer judge it's valuable or not.

Generally yes.  But this specific issue discusses a potential (slow) mass 
bug-filing of many similar (in spirit, not technically) bugs and thus 
warrants a discussion on d-d. 

Ian: I add my voice to what you already perceive: these tests would be 
welcome, and I'd probably accept them to my few packages.  A very short 
(one screenfull or so) HOWTO/README about how the whole system works linked 
from the bug would be helpful, because I don't have the time to read up on 
it now, but will want to when you file the first bug on my pkgs, without 
having to sort through 100 mailing list hits with 90% content which doesn't 
apply anymore because the technical details were changed...

cheers
-- vbi

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Re: Bug#351470: ITP: libmail-gnupg-perl -- Perl module for processing email with GPG

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Sunday 05 February 2006 03:58, gregor herrmann wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: gregor herrmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> * Package name: libmail-gnupg-perl

> GnuPG::Interface can process or create PGP signed or encrypted
> email.

Oh, and:  either it's Mail::GnuPG here or the package name should be 
libgnupg-interface-perl.

cheers
-- vbi


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Re: Bug#351470: ITP: libmail-gnupg-perl -- Perl module for processing email with GPG

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Sunday 05 February 2006 03:58, gregor herrmann wrote:

> GnuPG::Interface can process or create PGP signed or encrypted
> email.

What kind?  Does it handle PGP/MIME mail and inline signed/encrypted both?  
(And didn't mutt have their own pseudo standard from before PGP/MIME?) I 
think this should be mentioned in the description.

(And I'm just wondering: does it handle both PGP/MIME signed + encrypted as 
separate layers, S/MIME style, and also as signed+encrypted OpenPGP blob in 
one multipart/encrypted container?)

cheers
-- vbi

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Re: For those who care about debian-devel-announce

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Wednesday 18 January 2006 18:07, Martin Schulze wrote:
> Posting permissions to debian-devel-announce revoked after making a
> point.

[public announcmement of the above on d-d-a]

Thank you very much.  Very well written.

-- vbi

-- 
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