Re: Adopting these packages
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 04 January 2002 17:03, Daniel Stone wrote: (BCC'ed to [EMAIL PROTECTED]). I will adopt the KDE packages, while Chris calc Cheney will take Qt, and will also be the KDE3 maintainer when it comes around to it; by the time KDE2.2 is phased out in favour of KDE3, I won't have the time to maintain KDE, so it works out nicely. :) d Please CC all replies to me; the MX for the domain I get all list mail on is down, so I'm reduced to reading lists through the archives. If you don't, I reserve the right to have a long, flaming, thread about the fact. Oh, and sorry about the line wrapping - LookOut! Express doesn't have it. :\ Hi Daniel, I'm a KDE hacker. I would like to eventually adopt KDE3 packages. Could Chris please contact me? Unfortunately I'm not available until February, but if you have any problems I'd try to help. Thanks, - -- Eray Ozkural (exa) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo GPG public key fingerprint: 360C 852F 88B0 A745 F31B EA0F 7C07 AE16 874D 539C -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8NymzfAeuFodNU5wRArY1AJ99z5fT3cSDSg/+ONmtYqj6JnzDIQCdFrQX ws32zGnOqw/ynCBZwPYvoXQ= =yKYi -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Does BTS clean old bugs?
On the bts web interface, it's written that closed bugs are cleaned up after a period of inactivity. Are they permanently erased? I'd prefer that a complete history of all bugs is preserved. Thanks, -- Eray Ozkural (exa) Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Does BTS clean old bugs?
Josip Rodin wrote: On Sun, May 06, 2001 at 03:00:56PM +0300, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote: On the bts web interface, it's written that closed bugs are cleaned up after a period of inactivity. Are they permanently erased? I'd prefer that a complete history of all bugs is preserved. They aren't, that sentence is unclear, a bug has already been filed. Yes, it is a bit ambiguous indeed. Thanks, -- Eray Ozkural (exa) Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
ITP: cgen -- cpu tools generator
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist From Red Hat, CGEN (pronounced seejen) is a framework for developing generators of CPU-related tools such as assemblers, disassemblers and simulators. It specifies a description language for describing the architecture and organization of a CPU without reference to any particular application. Additional applications can be written within the framework. CGEN is written in Scheme and can be run under the GNU Guile interpreter. It is placed under a free software license. License explanation: GPL 2 or later with the exception that the output code may be used in an unlimited fashion. Which is usual for a development tool. URL: http://sources.redhat.com/cgen/ -- Eray Ozkural (exa) Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: How to report bugs (was glibc thing)
Greg Stark wrote: Just writing in your conclusions is useless 90% of the time. Your conclusions may be right but the maintainer doesn't have ESP and can't necessarily deduce where they came from and what the bug is. I will try to assemble a test case as soon as I have some time. It's been a long time, but I hope I will be able to replicate the bug. Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#81397: [authorization] fails silently for normal users, cannot start server
Branden Robinson wrote: Ah, so you have a time machine which you used to tell your earlier self that there was going to be trouble from me over bug 81397? No comments. :) You CC'ed your *initial report* to debian-devel and debian-x, before I had anything at all to say on the subject. Yes, I did. At any rate, you didn't have to publicly insult me. -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#81397: [authorization] fails silently for normal users, cannot start server
Hi Martin, please cc to me Martin Bialasinski wrote: I have developed a great liking for bug reports somehow. Then you just need to develope some skill for a) analysing bugs and writing useful reports and b) not going crazy when developers ask further question if they don't have a cristal ball handy. When I have more time on my hands, the bug reports become more comprehensive. Excuse me for being paranoid about bug reports, but some of the bug reports are really being overlooked. Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#81396: root shell fscked after upgrade to woody
Colin Watson wrote: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ (hmm, I appear to have that memorized - I end up grabbing it any time I'm at a public Windows-based Internet terminal). way cool. a mud addict friend of mine always used putty, now i see why :) you can even do x-win style cut and paste with putty!! i didn't know it had ssh support. For what it's worth, I discovered entirely by accident that if you install telnetd-ssl then the telnet client in Windows 98 and above will connect to it and seamlessly do SSL negotiation, while of course non-SSL-capable telnet clients will still be able to connect insecurely. that sounds even better. perhaps ms is a good place to work at. :) thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#81397: [authorization] fails silently for normal users, cannot start server
Branden Robinson wrote: I can handle it just fine when clueful people characterize me as psychotic. When professional ignorami like you get hysterical on two mailing lists and the BTS simultaneously over a FAQ, because you upgraded your production system to an unstable, unreleased operating system in a fit of hallucinogenic stupor, you do nothing but earn my contempt and a deserved rant. What do you expect when you swear like that upon an innocent bug report? BTW, I'm not a professional ignorami whatever that means, dear literary pioneer of the list. I upgraded our research cluster to unstable because I wanted to use it for testing the latest cluster software. If you call your insults to another contributor to debian deserved rant, then I'd think you are either misinterpreting your status or unaware of any social skills. -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Bug#81396: root shell fscked after upgrade to woody
Hi
Manoj Srivastava wrote:
There is not enough information in this report to actually do
anything about debugging the problem. You don't even mention what
shell you are using as /bin/sh; what you have in /etc/environemnt;
what you have in the configuration files for the rot user, whether
you have tried any debugging echo statements (or set -x); whether you
have wnything in /etc/profile
Pretty standard in fact.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# cat /etc/passwd | grep root
root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# cat .bashrc
# ~/.bashrc: executed by bash(1) for non-login shells.
# see /usr/share/doc/bash/examples/startup-files for examples
# If running interactively, then:
if [ $PS1 ]; then
# enable color support of ls and also add handy aliases
eval `dircolors`
alias ls='ls --color=auto '
alias ll='ls -l'
alias la='ls -A'
alias l='ls -CF'
alias dir='ls --color=auto --format=vertical'
alias vdir='ls --color=auto --format=long'
# set a fancy prompt
PS1='[EMAIL PROTECTED]:\w\$ '
fi
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# cat .bash_profile
# ~/.bash_profile: executed by bash(1) for login shells.
# see /usr/share/doc/bash/examples/startup-files for examples.
# the files are located in the bash-doc package.
umask 022
# the rest of this file is commented out.
# include .bashrc if it exists
#if [ -f ~/.bashrc ]; then
#source ~/.bashrc
#fi
# set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
#if [ -d ~/bin ] ; then
#PATH=echo `~/bin`:${PATH}
#fi
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# cat /etc/environment
LANG=C
--
Eray (exa) Ozkural
Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Bug#81396: root shell fscked after upgrade to woody
This is how it looks like [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ telnet borg Trying 139.179.21.143... Connected to borg.cs.bilkent.edu.tr. Escape character is '^]'. Debian GNU/Linux woody borg.cs.bilkent.edu.tr login: root Password: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# echo $PATH /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# su [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# echo $PATH /sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# exit exit [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# exit logout Connection closed by foreign host. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ How should I debug this? Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#81397: [authorization] fails silently for normal users, cannot start server
Hamish Moffatt wrote: On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 07:48:58PM +0200, Eray Ozkural wrote: Such primitive reaction of yours is not likely to arouse interest in prospective contributors; to join debian and to work with people like you. Fortunately, Eray, we're not all here for your amusement. I'm not addressing you Hamish. In all of our exchanges, there have always been a dose of respect. Not with the xfree86 maintainer, though. In every exchange, he is acting like a raving lunatic. He's swearing like that in a public list. When a future developer sees that, what will he think? Will he be happy that he will be able to encounter some psychotic script guy? I'm talking only of the xfree86 maintainer. When a person is arrogant but a genius otherwise, you can overlook his ignorance of social norms from time to time. But this person is not that talented. And he is one of the most arrogant and irresponsible young computer-oriented persons I have ever encountered. His actions are simply not tolerable. -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Bug#81396: root shell fscked after upgrade to woody
Hi Matt!! I don't report a bug due to misconfiguration. Let's see if what you see applies, though. Matt Zimmerman wrote: First, man su to find out where su(1) is getting its environment from. Searching for 'environment' on that man page, you can find this: The current environment is passed to the new shell. The value of $PATH is reset to /bin:/usr/bin for normal users, or /sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin for the super user. This may be changed with the ENV_PATH and ENV_SUPATH defini- tions in /etc/login.defs. When using the -m or -p options, the users environment is not changed. Then, read /etc/login.defs. Note the values of the ENV_PATH and ENV_SUPATH options. These are used by login(1) and su(1). Test login(1) and su(1) and make sure they are doing what you expect. If they aren't, find out why. If they are behaving contrary to their documentation, file a bug. If they are, continue. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ cat /etc/login.defs | grep ENV # Three items must be defined: MAIL_DIR, ENV_SUPATH, and ENV_PATH. #ENV_TZ TZ=CST6CDT #ENV_TZ /etc/tzname ENV_HZ HZ=100 #ENV_HZ HZ=1024 ENV_SUPATH PATH=/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin ENV_PATHPATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games #ENVIRON_FILE See Matt? This isn't the source of the problem. I didn't even touch it. Let's go on, sure. I'll try to overlook your insults and get to solve the problem. I checked it and it seems that I can login on this box (woody) directly with the SU path when I login from the console as root. But on borg which I observed the bug, when I login as root I only get the ENV_PATH man telnetd. Find out where telnetd is supposed to be getting its environment from. Traditionally, telnetd has called login(1) to complete the login process, but it sounds like that may have changed, or different options are being used. I don't run telnetd (and neither should you), so I can't walk you through this step as I don't have the package installed. I used telnet to demonstrate how it looks to a normal root login. We use telnet here because this is a diverse university network; we can't force people to run ssh and any moron could go root on this machine if he really wanted to. No tight physical security either. We trust each other here. Those are the major components that you're dealing with. Investigate the problem step by step, testing each component individually, and determine which component is causing the problem. If the problem appears to be caused by a software bug, isolate the smallest possible test case, and report a bug against the package which contains the buggy component. Optionally, you may investigate further, fix the problem, and include a patch. Really? Unfortunately Matt the components don't really include telnetd. Thank you for attending UNIX System Administration 101, followed by a brief introduction to deductive problem solving. Now please stop reporting bugs against general, and subscribe to a UNIX help mailing list. Why are you pretending that this is an FAQ. This happened twice on systems that I used, and was caused by an upgrade. I marked it important not because it is difficult to solve, but because it would apparently disrupt operation in a bad way. If you have a valid reason, you may decrease the priority to normal but otherwise stop ranting and try to help solving it. Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#81397: [authorization] fails silently for normal users, cannot start server
Oliver M . Bolzer wrote: You are still not getting it, arn`t you? It is not about the content at atll, is about quoting PRIVATE mail in PUBLIC places without asking FIRST. Sorry for shouting, but this has to be said. Yes, I am getting it. But I'd always thought that content did matter. [*] Legally, you might be allowed to (fair-use) quote private mail sent to you as one end of the communication pipe, but we are talking netiquette here. Really, it is not yours to decide wheter it is wrong or not to make that mail publicly available. It is only the authors choice. He might have whatever reasons to not want the content to be seen by the public. All right. I publicly apologize to Henrique for not asking him first. Ignore what I have quoted from him and consider only what I have written: --- Users here are not at all interested in the psychological state of a particular developer. On the contrary, every developer should be required to deal with every bug report in an objective manner. Inappropriate dismissal or incorrect evaluation of bug reports could be dealt with if bug reports were subject to peer review. I think that review by wider audience may be instrumental in that... - Thanks, [*] When we talk just about code, objectively, I wouldn't hesitate to post it to public places. -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#81397: [authorization] fails silently for normal users, cannot start server
Hamish Moffatt wrote: There IS a debconf question about it.. it's not like it just does it to you without asking. Maybe the debconf priority of the question is too low if too many people are missing it. Do you think this is also what prevented display managers (xdm, gdm, wings are the ones that I tries) to function correctly? Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#81397: [authorization] fails silently for normal users, cannot start server
Hamish Moffatt wrote: On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 11:34:04PM +0200, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote: If you call your insults to another contributor to debian deserved rant, then I'd think you are either misinterpreting your status or unaware of any social skills. I'm sorry, WHO is misinterpeting their status? I think the xfree86 maintainer is misinterpreting his status. As a prospective developer, I'd be greatly surprised if anybody told me that developers have the right to swear publicly in an outburst of adolescent frenzy. Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: [Fwd: Bug#63511 acknowledged by developer(Bug#63511: fixed in glibc 2.2-7)]
Russell Coker wrote: I'm sure that Ben will welcome your contributions towards maintaining the libc6 package. All you have to do is read the list of bugs, solve some, and send in patches. I'm not trying to bash Ben. He did a wonderful work in resolving many bugs and generally keeping up-to-date with the CVS and builds of all architectures which is a difficult job. My suggestion is another: give packages multiple developers and have a more formal way for others to evaluate bugs... It wouldn't be wrong to have at least 2 developers especially for important packages. Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: [Fwd: Bug#63511 acknowledged by developer(Bug#63511: fixed in glibc 2.2-7)]
Matt Zimmerman wrote: Oh, and just to chime in on this little bit, I did not start maintaining glibc until Aug 31, 2000 (my first changelog entry). So no, I have not been sitting on this for 7 months. Get your facts straight. And just to chime in, I appreciate the huge effort and many juicy changelog entries that have gone into libc6 recently. I do, too. I appreciate Ben's skills and effort. Sorry if there's misunderstanding. For instance, there was this bug about fmemopen() and a few days later, the fix from CVS was in debian. Amazing. Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: [Fwd: Bug#63511 acknowledged by developer(Bug#63511: fixed in glibc 2.2-7)]
Russell Coker wrote: This is already being done for some packages. Check the maintainer address on the gcc package for an example. The thing that determines this is whether there are multiple people who are skillful and willing to work. If you want to be the second developer for libc6 then start fixing some bugs! Ahem! *choke* Perhaps, I must start with the (inaccurate) bug I'd reported!! I'll just determine the cause of that bug and see what I can do myself. Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
[Fwd: Bug#63511 acknowledged by developer(Bug#63511: fixed in glibc 2.2-7)]
Hi, I'm sending this mail because libc maintainer seems to have closed the bug I've issued without doing any investigation on his own. Here's my original message --- Subject: libc6-dev: PTHREAD_ERRORCHECK_INITIALIZER_NP not defined as claimed in docs Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 22:03:20 +0300 From: Eray Ozkural [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Package: libc6-dev Version: 2.1.3-8 Severity: normal The preprocessor macro seems to be undefined. There are also other subtleties while using pthread lib, such as the __USE_UNIX_98 stuff, which I really don't know (I only use c++, and UNIX_98 sections don't seem to come along. Why is that?) Thanks a bunch, -- Now, I think what I say is fairly obvious but the package maintainer dismisses this bug like this with a changelog entry: * No reference to which docs, nor is there a test case, so: closes: #63511 The maintainer might have a lot of things to do, the package might have too many bugs open, and in the course of eliminating bugs he might have been too quick in his assessment. I DON'T CARE. If he hasn't the time/energy/mood to cope with a clear bug report like this (only the subject line is enough, the body is just comments) then I think more than one developer must work on libc maintenance; I don't know how many maintainers it currently has... Anyway, here is the _explanation_ for the bug report. There's a preprocessor symbol in posix threads. It's called PTHREAD_ERRORCHECK_INITIALIZER_NP. I claim that it has not been defined although it is said to be defined in the docs. Which docs? Obviously, the info manual since there is only *one* freakin' manual. Where in that manual? Any luser with a info browser that can search would find it: From File: libc.info, Node: Mutexes, Next: Condition Variables, Prev: Cleanup Handlers, Up: POSIX Threads Variables of type `pthread_mutex_t' can also be initialized statically, using the constants `PTHREAD_MUTEX_INITIALIZER' (for timed mutexes), `PTHREAD_RECURSIVE_MUTEX_INITIALIZER_NP' (for recursive mutexes), `PTHREAD_ADAPTIVE_MUTEX_INITIALIZER_NP' (for fast mutexes(, and `PTHREAD_ERRORCHECK_MUTEX_INITIALIZER_NP' (for error checking mutexes). So. That's where I say it is. Also I'm saying that I was using the lib from C++, so might this be causing my problem? And I pointed out that there might be some other problems with the preprocessor symbol _USE_UNIX_98. Of course, as the mighty maintainer of libc, Ben *does* know about UNIX 98 I presume. And that UNIX 98 *is* supported in libc, while in that version of the package it seemed to be *unsupported*. WHAT TO DO: --- * re-open the bug * learn about pthread, learn about preprocessor symbols in pthread, learn about UNIX 98, learn about info browsers. * find the corresponding node in the info manual. * try to use PTHREAD_ERRORCHECK_MUTEX_INITIALIZER_NP * find out if it is defined or not. * if it is not defined * investigate why not. * see if this has any relation with _USE_UNIX_98 as hinted in the bug report * fix it * else * request submitter to replicate the bug * investigate further If bug submitters did all the maintenance work themselves, then there would be little need for the maintainer(s). I don't have to submit a test program for a bug as obvious as this one, neither do I have to submit a patch. That's maintainer's responsibility. I've just reported what I had thought, some many many months ago, to be a problem. Of course, the maintainer has not done anything about this report for 7 months, and then he closes it like that. Not good. Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo---BeginMessage--- This is an automatic notification regarding your Bug report #63511: libc6-dev: PTHREAD_ERRORCHECK_INITIALIZER_NP not defined as claimed in docs, which was filed against the libc6-dev package. It has been closed by one of the developers, namely Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Their explanation is attached below. If this explanation is unsatisfactory and you have not received a better one in a separate message then please contact the developer directly, or email [EMAIL PROTECTED] or me. Darren Benham (administrator, Debian Bugs database) Received: (at 63511-close) by bugs.debian.org; 29 Dec 2000 20:17:00 + From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Dec 29 14:17:00 2000 Return-path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from auric.debian.org [206.246.226.45] (mail) by master.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 14C5xU-0005hm-00; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:17:00 -0600 Received: from troup by auric.debian.org with local (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 14C5cZ-0002Op-00; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:55:23 -0500 From: Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Bug#63511: fixed in glibc 2.2-7
Re: [Fwd: Bug#63511 acknowledged by developer(Bug#63511: fixed in glibc 2.2-7)]
Peter Palfrader wrote: Did you do this first? No. I'm sending it here because I want it to be seen. -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: [Fwd: Bug#63511 acknowledged by developer(Bug#63511: fixed in glibc 2.2-7)]
Manoj Srivastava wrote: Wanted to make an ass of yourself in public, eh? Yep. -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: [Fwd: Bug#63511 acknowledged by developer(Bug#63511: fixed in glibc 2.2-7)]
Ben Collins wrote: WOW. Go fucking figure. YOUR BUG REPORT says PTHREAD_ERRORCHECK_INITIALIZER_NP while this info page shows PTHREAD_ERRORCHECK_MUTEX_INITIALIZER_NP argh. my first great mistake of the millenium. fuck me real hard. -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: [Fwd: Bug#63511 acknowledged by developer(Bug#63511: fixed in glibc 2.2-7)]
Manoj Srivastava wrote: Indeed, you should feel lucky that even the non standard PTHREAD_ERRORCHECK_MUTEX_INITIALIZER_NP is provided by the implementation, even though not present in ISO/IEC 9945-1 Yep, I know what NP means. My trouble was something else but I had thought that it was due to the symbol I told of being undefined. When I was doing it I was writing c++ wrappers for a large portion of the pthread lib, so if I can recall it correctly this time I guess the trouble was that I could not initialize error checking mutexes and had to resort to the basic ones... Are all three types of mutexes supported under glibc? According to the info manual it should be but...? Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: [Fwd: Bug#63511 acknowledged by developer(Bug#63511: fixed in glibc 2.2-7)]
Ben Collins wrote: WHAT TO DO: - Get a clue - Read better Roger that. Getting a clue: It looks like I was having a bad day; due to the nature of hack mode I have done it incorrectly Reading better: Looks like I'm still having a bad day. If I can't strcmp then how will I rightfully complain about my bug not getting attention? Sorry Ben. -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: [Fwd: Bug#63511 acknowledged by developer(Bug#63511: fixed in glibc 2.2-7)]
Ben Collins wrote:
Oh, and just to chime in on this little bit, I did not start maintaining
glibc until Aug 31, 2000 (my first changelog entry). So no, I have not
been sitting on this for 7 months. Get your facts straight.
I'm really ashamed, Ben. Sorry, sorry, sorry. :{
--
Eray (exa) Ozkural
Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: [Fwd: Bug#63511 acknowledged by developer(Bug#63511: fixed in glibc 2.2-7)]
Now it's my unavoidable duty to find out what has caused me to file this bug. Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: [Fwd: Bug#63511 acknowledged by developer(Bug#63511: fixed in glibc 2.2-7)]
Tim Bell wrote: Now I'm sure Ben is plenty busy with libc6 and whatever else he does, and I don't mean to blame him for this slipping through. But the thought that bugs are getting closed without being fixed is worrying. That's my point. A package like libc6 is burdensome. It would not be fair to expect that a single person will always be able to keep a high level of responsiveness. It is worrisome that some bugs just go unnoticed because of shortage of volunteer time or for some other reason because this hurts the overall quality of the distribution. I think quality is one thing that Debian can and must surpass other distributions. I strongly feel that packages, especially important/big ones must have multiple developers / peer reviews and we should have some sort of check on how well the bugs have been evaluated. Still, I must apologize because the bug I reported was inaccurate, and all that. However, I would not have reported it if there was no problem. No bug should be closed without some investigation and communication by the maintainer. BTW, might bugzilla be better than Debian BTS in some aspects? Just a thought... Regards, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: RFC: pools and catagories of packages
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know about freshmeat (I only use it for the software search engine), but IMHO Sourceforge suffers just as much or probably even more so from the current Debian hierarchy problem: too generic or just overcrowded categories. That's two of the problems I'm trying to address. Another is the structure of ontology: a single inheritance tree doesn't seem to be sufficient. Plus, we need a part-of hierarchy as well I'm sure... -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: bugs + rant + constructive criticism (long)
Branden Robinson wrote: You know, kinda like the way I went nuclear on Wichert when he broke vim. You use vi? Emacs rules. -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#80544: [rename] can't rename dir with valid permissions
Nathan E Norman wrote: On Thu, Dec 28, 2000 at 03:05:50AM +0200, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote: Martin. Yes. I tried. Do you think I'm a newbie or something? Why do you think the file is owned by root? It's on windows partition... Hold on ... this is an msdos partition mounted? If so, check out man 8 mount; specifically the uid and gid options. i don't touch uid. it gets to be root but gid I changed, it's group windows and user exa is in group windows and I can rightfully move files in that partition BUT gmc (and most possibly mc) will not be able to rename stuff, though you can move files ;) It's a bug for certain! Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#80544: [rename] can't rename dir with valid permissions
Chad Miller wrote: On Thu, Dec 28, 2000 at 05:41:28PM +0200, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote: BUT gmc (and most possibly mc) will not be able to rename stuff, though you can move files ;) It's a bug for certain! Whoa. I don't understand that; what's the difference between moving and renaming? There isn't. gmc thinks there is. that's the bug! -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#80544: [rename] can't rename dir with valid permissions
Hi Martin, in the light of what has been discussed... could you please replicate the bug and report upstream? thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: RFC: pools and catagories of packages
esoR ocsirF wrote: Greetings, IANAD, but I would like to suggest an idea that I had. There has been a lot of interest in getting packages arranged by different catagorizations, something like the menu. Most ideas that I have seen so far seem to imply adding new fields to the debs, but his seems like overkill to me. I'm working on it. :) Ideas were not constrained to adding new fields to the debs, which isn't sufficient on its own. Couldn't a new packages be created, something like a Catagories.deb that contained a databased of entries for each type? like... Graphics |_Gimp |_Xfig etc... Hmm. Have you read the discussion on this ML? Misclassification... thread I don't think another big tree is good enough. and when somebody thought that a package should be added to a catagory they just submitted a bug against the catagory package. Extra catagories could be added by bug requests also. This would allow package maintaners the ability to say where there packages belong but also the users would be able to feed back into the catagories as well. Well, good but not enough. We need a better way for developers and most probably *users* to work on categorization. You will be hearing some words about this from me *real soon now* Let me skip all the boring stuff and come to the exciting part. I'll develop an ontology tool for editing ontologies of the sort we need. What we need is an ontology formalism that supports categories and relations (such as sub-category or part-of). And does these in an intuitive way, etc. Right now I'm working on choosing a suitable formalism. So far my inclination is towards making my own simplified stuff because: * either they are too general (full KB support [ask,tell..], FOL, inference, axioms, etc.) like KIF based stuff. * or they are too specific. like SHOE. Ultimately, I will proceed in the following order * first, you will hear a design of this stuff. it will probably be a graph based formalism. similar to Conceptual Graphs perhaps, but will have just enough formalism to support our needs. and it *will* be intuitive * second, an implementation of this formalism as a pet language will follow. i'm supposed to finish this in 10 hours, but not likely :) * third, some kind of a user interface for single-person editing of ontologies * fourth, a client/server implementation will come. I'm hopeful that as soon as I get to the second stage, we will be able to get some part of the ontology right. If you are interested in this stuff, let me mention a cool feature I'm thinking of: generic ontologies: these are meta-ontologies that can be instantiated, it will be quite useful for us. I can do some ASCII art now!! Yehaaaw! Death to graphics formatS!! Now, all this discussion assumes you know a little bit about ontologies. You might wanna check ontolingua stuff. Check it out at http://www.ksl.stanford.edu/software/ontolingua/ On this list, I *promise* to post a more comprehensive description and collection of links which I'm doing as part of a grad. cs course. It's sort of a small web site done with screem. A generic ontology (I'm doin' only trees to simplify things) 080808080808080808080808080808080080808080808080808080808080 I remain consistent with my previous diagrams, it should be clear any way... / - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\ |InfoProcApp: | Data | * * *| /|\ | / | \ | Processor Editor Presenter | | \- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - / InfoProcApp: Information Processing Application The box indicates a generic ontology package here named InfoProcApp. Here is a candidate ontology derived from InfoProcApp /-\ | GfxProcApp: | | Graphics | | *** | |/ | \| | / | \ | | Filter PaintApp Viewer | \-/ Now think of other stuff like this. The important thing is that we can say that these are all InfoProcApps. Now imagine this higher level hierarchy Application * * / \ InfoProcApp ** / \ DocProcApp--- GfxProcApp * ** * / \ / \ HTMLProcApp TextProcApp JPEGProcApp AnimProcApp * / MPEGProcApp Just to give a glimpse. Even the very simple generic ontology I gave can be very useful in devising a useful ontology. Of course that's not my last trick. :) The bag's full of 'em.. ;)
Re: RFC: pools and catagories of packages
Neal H Walfield wrote: I think that this is a reasonable idea, however, it only addresses a small part of the problem. I feel that a better solution would be to use a similar method to perl modules: a hierarchal name space. In fact, we We'll have better than that :) My tool will have a full package implementation (similar to Ontolingua's) but of course I'll avoid perl syntax at all costs!!! :) The cool part will be that we won't be making the same assumptions as a half-decent OO language. Apologies to perl freaks here, but that's what it is... By assumptions, I mean that symbol import/export will be a general construct in my impl. I think it will have to be as general as CLOS package system but let me finish the design first. Details later.. :) Frankly, I'm thinking of a single colon or a single dot for that... :) Of course the syntax is *totally* irrelevant here. It's the semantics that matters. Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
vacation
I'll be off for a few days, so I may not be able to answer the posts in RFC: pools... thread. Happy New Year!! -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#80343: general: Lack of policy on which files should be owned by which user
Peter Eckersley wrote: If my I want a file to be readable by everybody *except* user fred, I can set permissions: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ ls -l plot-against-fred -rwr--1 pde fred 1 Dec 27 17:12 plot-against-fred Of course, I need root access to do it :( ^^^ That's what troubles me. -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#80343: general: Lack of policy on which files should be owned by which user
Hamish Moffatt wrote: This is a big nuisance. I spent months working on a project with a shared directory without individual user groups. Worse yet, you can end up with a CVS repository full of files with user-only permissions (using a local CVS repositor, rather than remote). Ok. Then what I did was correct. I set up a developers group and put all devels there, then I changed umask to 002 in /etc/profile. I guess that's the way it works for multiple CVS users, right? Since there are per user groups, the umask won't disrupt any other operation. Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#80544: [rename] can't rename dir with valid permissions
Hi Martin, cross-posting to debian-devel because your assessment of the bug is totally wrong. Martin Bialasinski wrote: Hi, I can rename a directory to which I have permissions in shell orion:mp3$ ls -ald Rob\ Zombie/ drwxrwxr-x2 root windows 16384 May 21 2000 Rob Zombie/ These permissions are irrelevant. You want to change a directory item, therefore you need to have write permission on the directory containing this entry. Did you actually *try* to rename the directory on the shell, or did you conclude it should work from the above permissions? Martin. Yes. I tried. Do you think I'm a newbie or something? Why do you think the file is owned by root? It's on windows partition... And YES I've got group write rights. Why do you think I say that I have permissions? Do you think everyone reporting a bug is a lamer? Revise your prejudice please. orion:exa$ groups exa dialout cdrom audio dip video windows I can do ANYTHING I WANT to those files okay? only in gmc renaming (that is the old mv) will fail But gmc thinks I don't have sufficient rights and thus doesn't allow me to graphically change the name from properties!! awesome bug. I assume, you don't run gmc as root, and your primary group is also not windows. insufficient assumptions. primary group? hah. I can either change a file. Or not. Either I'm in a group or *not*. There is no in between like a *primary group*. If an application makes such a distinction, and does not allow renaming on the basis of a vacuous distinction like this, we call it a BUG. BTW, the same gmc happily moves files and dirs in the same directory. The only thing it can't do is renaming which is AFAIK the same thing as moving files. Check it out for yourself: orion:Stuff$ ls -ald desktop.* -rwxrwxr-x1 root windows 125 Nov 20 1998 desktop.ini orion:Stuff$ mv desktop.ini desktop.what! orion:Stuff$ ls -ald desktop.* -rwxrwxr-x1 root windows 125 Nov 20 1998 desktop.what! orion:Stuff$ mv desktop.what! desktop.ini orion:Stuff$ ls -ald desktop.* -rwxrwxr-x1 root windows 125 Nov 20 1998 desktop.ini orion:Stuff$ I am not making these up. It isn't fiction. I'm reporting a true event. :( I don't have to defend a bug like this. If you tried to actually reproduce it before dismissing it like this, you would see what an annoying bug it is. Do you prefer that the bug remains unreported? *sigh* I feel like a lot of bugs are being *censored*. :( -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#80544: [rename] can't rename dir with valid permissions
Jason Henry Parker wrote: At a guess, I would say this is a non-bug. I'm saying that I can't rename a file using gmc which I *can* otherwise rename. So your first guess in not very accurate. You know how to rename something in gmc, yes? You do that in the properties of a file, by editing the name and then clicking okay. The edit widget there becomes a ghost item in this startling case. Try to reproduce what I do there. The permissions on parent are irrelevant. That's a vfat filesystem. Permissions are same everywhere anyway if you wonder. orion:exa$ cat /etc/fstab | grep vfat /dev/hda2 /winvfatdefaults,user,exec,suid 1 0 /dev/hdb1 /data vfatdefaults,user,rw,exec,gid=105,umask=002 1 0 /dev/sda4 /zipvfatdefaults,user,exec,rw,noauto0 0 /dev/sda1 /zip/ppa-bugvfatdefaults,user,exec,rw,noauto0 0 that happens to be data and gid 105 is windows !!! -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
(a small correction) Re: Bug#80544: [rename] can't rename dir with valid permissions
Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote: Try to reproduce what I do there. The permissions on parent are irrelevant. That's a vfat filesystem. Permissions are same everywhere anyway if you wonder. Sorry sorry sorry sorry. Permissions on parent of course do matter as you express. However, in this case the permissions are uniform so the problem is not that. Anyway, I can rename in bash but not in gmc. Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#80343: general: Lack of policy on which files should be owned by which user
Hamish Moffatt wrote: On Tue, Dec 26, 2000 at 04:43:53AM +0200, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote: I like using groups to give different sets of rights and I'm annoyed by Debian giving every user his own group. Is that reall necessary? No, but it's a good idea. It makes it much easier to work in directories shared with other users (but not all users), because you don't have to keep changing your umask all the time, or even worse, fixing file permissions because you (or somebody else) forgot to change their umask. I always thought it was a paranoid kind of security feature in Debian. I might be wrong of course. How does giving every user his own group makes it easier for him to share files without system administrator's intervention? I couldn't guite get it, sorry I just woke up but I simply don't understand it. A small example? What's the harm in it? It populates the groups? I want only meaningful groups there. Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#80343: general: Lack of policy on which files should be owned by which user
Brian May wrote: zsh has in /etc/zshrc: [[ $UID == $GID ]] umask 002 || umask 022 My only dislike is it overrides my default setup in ~/.zshenv of 077. It seems wrong to put this stuff in zshrc, that only gets used for interactive shells. zshenv gets processed for all shells, but is run before zshrc. I use bash. Is this zsh better? :) Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
Joseph Carter wrote: On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 07:54:00PM -0900, Ethan Benson wrote: personally the plain text database is one of dpkg's greatest assets. its a royal pain to repair a binary database when it gets fscked. and yes i have already been saved from a total reinstall through the ability to fix dpkg's broken database with a text editor. if your talking about a different database then nevermind. Berkeley DB to text and back is pretty easy. Also, I was speaking of binary indices which are even easier to regenerate if corrupted. When I talked about binaries, people flamed me ruthlessly and without legitimate reasons. Hope your comments make them grok the point. Having bulky stupid slow text files all around your system is no guarantee of recoverability or reliability, whatever. Such feature comes from smart coding, not that things are text. The ideal system would be that doesn't need your manual intervention to keep things running. Example: checkpointing of package information which we _don't_ have. Some random postinstall file gets fscked and the system stalls, then you gotta fix it by hand. Ah, and if a large portion of the database is gone, there is nothing your stupid hand can do, anyway. -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Misclassification of packages; libs and doc sections
Hi Thomas, I got back to working on ontology, and I'd like to give an answer to one of your previous remarks. Your last e-mail was a bit harsh but I'm hoping that you will find my view worthwhile. ;) Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: I think that logic has a great deal to do with semantics. I think that the mathematical notion Category Theory has a great deal to do with logic and semantics. And I don't think that the mathematical notion Category Theory has a great deal to do with the traditional philosophical notion of Category. As I read the views of Category Theorists themselves, I found out that their views were quite parallel with yours. They thought of metaphysics to be a distinct sphere of endeavor from that of mathematics as is the general attitude of a mathematician. In countless encounters, mathematicians did admit that they held their task as a subjective and intuitive effort rather than an objective hard science and that it had a boundary of its own. That its use did not necessarily indicate a relation with another field. I may use mathematics to explain a sociological phenomenon, but mathematics is not related to sociology; it remains separate. I believe most would claim such even for physics which itself has given way to new branches of mathematics. Anyway, mathematicians would mostly tell me mathematics != philosophy in strong words. Unfortunately, I have to disagree :) The creators of mathematical theories, which have been used in AI to explain how facts of world are to be represented, would say that the terms they have used are only borrowed. *The semantic content is entirely different* That I believe is also what you have stated in various ways. That the term category in Category Theory is very different from Category in study of ontology in philosophy. That is precisely where I think we *should* be skeptical about. After thinking about Feyerabend's view of scientific practice, I reached the following argument: Artificially separating mutually related theories into predefined domains of theories is not a fruitful methodology. It isn't because it is the enforcement of a particular progress methodology. That it is the correct way to draw a hard line between the philosophy and science of a thing. I cannot offer a proof of my argument why this methodology is wrong, because it has to be a historical rather than an analytical one. That I am not very skilled at; and I have limited space in this e-mail. In the context of our discussion, I think my argument would imply something of the following sort: We should not exclude the possibility that a new theory of categories, be it more metaphysical or more mathematical, depends on an important relation between the mathematical Category and philosophical Category regardless of whether prominent philosophers or mathematicians deny such a relation. That was a cumbersome sentence, but I can't word it better now :) The simpler statement would be that in new research we should utilize ideas from both worlds and try to exploit similarities as well as differences between them. I know this sounds confusing but I think it is an anything goes argument for research. We should not inhibit scientific practice before it happens. I've written this small piece because I was inspired by a work of Nicola Guarino. If you're interested I can send you links to some of his papers. Of course you can take a look at his work yourself. At this location there are many papers authored by him: http://www.ladseb.pd.cnr.it/infor/ontology/Papers/OntologyPapers.html Merry Christmas, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
Brian May wrote: 2. Get rid of maintainer scripts (don't ask me how...) so that upgrading packages is guaranteed not to destroy your computer, even if the package came an from untrusted source. This could be carried further by saying no daemons can be started by UID=root without express permission by some protected config file. Perhaps maintainer scripts can run from a chroot and/or non-root environment (issues remain unsolved). Won't ask you how :) Here's a MFTL sol'n :) You need to devise a package description/configuration language that is declarative rather than procedural. What comes to my mind would be some sort of logical language, maybe something based on Prolog. That the statements as your example would be implemented with it and then the package interpreter would handle the procedural aspects of upgrading. No religious wars, all right? :) Cheers, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Oops
Mistakenly sent to debian-devel. This is off topic. Merry Xmas to you all!! Cheers, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#80343: general: Lack of policy on which files should be owned by which user
Brian May wrote: - harder to administrate /etc/passwd as more users exist. I like using groups to give different sets of rights and I'm annoyed by Debian giving every user his own group. Is that reall necessary? cu, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Misclassification of packages; libs and doc sections
Anand Kumria wrote: In future please send those kinds of emails privately. mis-take. :) -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#80343: general: Lack of policy on which files should be owned by which user
Nathan E Norman wrote: On Tue, Dec 26, 2000 at 04:43:53AM +0200, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote: I like using groups to give different sets of rights and I'm annoyed by Debian giving every user his own group. Is that reall necessary? It's useful when you're in a development environment where you've got directories that are group writable. On the other hand, I'd guess most large-scale development projects now use CVS rather than group writable directories as a sharing mechanism. I put CVS users in a group called developers. Is that wrong? Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Bug#80343: general: Lack of policy on which files should be owned by which user
Brian May wrote: exa == exa Eray writes: exa Brian May wrote: - harder to administrate /etc/passwd as more users exist. exa I like using groups to give different sets of rights and I'm exa annoyed by Debian giving every user his own group. Is that exa reall necessary? I don't do that on my machine here. Just edit /etc/adduser.conf Previously you had to be careful that the default umask was setup correctly, not sure if this is an issue or not now. Yep. I discovered that umask issue. I guess it's still a problem. Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
Dwayne C . Litzenberger wrote: Hello! I'm starting work on a new linux package manager. The idea is to be able to replace rpm, dpkg, apt, dselect (backend) with one,written mostly from scratch and designed to be as simple (code, not features) and clean as possible. For now, the work will be strictly academic, but if it works out, it may evolve into future standard package manager. open up a co-ordination page on sourceforge and start a public design process. do not stick to a religious idea like it should be written in C, or in perl. if you're really doing it for univ./research institute you will need some new features, otherwise the tool you're describing is a simple python/perl wrapper script that provides a common CLI to those tools that you mention. It would call 'em, UNIX way. So you need to give more details on what you want to achieve. Having some concrete goals is very important in this free software enterprise. So my question is: What do you wish for in a package manager? That it isn't just a package manager. It should cook the coffee for me. More importantly: It should be re-usable as a library for implementing packages/modules for PLs· That would make it pretty academic :) As a matter of fact I claimed to Anthony Towns that I'd rewrite dpkg for a test of skill during a friendly exchange. That's one of the features I really want for my future implementation. What do you think? Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
Joseph Carter wrote: I think if dpkg used some sort of hashed database index it would be a hell of a lot nicer to people's CPUs and memory. Whether or not that requires a re-implemenetation of dpkg or not isn't for me to say since I haven't looked at dpkg's code in 3 years. That smells like re-write. The scent of painstaking coding. Mmmm. -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
Dwayne C . Litzenberger wrote: I wrote.. It should be re-usable as a library for implementing packages/modules for PLs· Erm, now I'm getting confused. I assume you mean that this package manager should also be a framework for loadable modules. Isn't that way outside the scope of a package manager? Can you give me an example? No. I don't think all the things a loader/linker does is useful here. But I do think that in a language that supports modularity, there would be a lot of common things a package manager ought to support. The most obvious and important being dependency information. Which modules use which modules? Less obvious perhaps a recursive namespace implementation. Think subpackages. You can view a package as something that exports/imports symbols perhaps. It doesn't have to be limited to files and directories. What I would want to see is a more abstract view of the process. In fact, one should view this as part of a software-engineering toolchain. It should play nicely with a corresponding build system, config system, etc. Off the top of my head of course. :) Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: Singapore Linux Conference
Branden Robinson wrote: Wow, I may have to revise my opinion of France, then. Isn't France the same country that tried to spy on Netscape's SSL implementation? -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: biweekly debian-installer status report
Randolph Chung wrote: The recent article in one of the Linux magazines about using netboot and dhcp to automate installs in a computing lab was very interesting. How can debian installer do something like that? i didn't see this article, but in many cases these are done with ghost images -- you create a boot image, and all machines either boot with that image (nfsroot type), or you duplicate the image over to the machine. it would seem that automated installs using either an answer file that is part of your installation media, or using configuration gotten from a central configuration database (ldap, pgsql, or what have you) will give you the flexibility needed to do mass installs in, for example, a lab environment. Of course you've checked Thomas Lange's FAI. The new installer should provide the same functionality as FAI. Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
