Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Thomas Viehmann schreef: Hi, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: Next try: http://194.39.182.225/debian/xen/try4. Hmm.. these packages are not available anymore? URL changed? Your local Debian sid mirror, e.g. package xen-linux-system-2.6.26-1-xen-amd64. Strange, I don't see the packages in packages.debian.org, but I see them in bugs.debian.org. I also don't saw them yesterday in the new queue. If somebody wants them, I can put the amd64 packages somewhere on a server. I am running the packages as dom0 since they where released (the amd64 version), I don't saw stability problems. I would like to help test them better, but I need some help: my xenbr device does not start. With regards, Paul van der Vlis. -- http://www.vandervlis.nl/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
My first message was refused because it was to long. Another try... Bastian Blank schreef: On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 11:52:09AM +0200, Paul van der Vlis wrote: I have it running on my amd64 machine! Okay. I use now the try4 packages (amd64) on the dom0. I did not have problems with the try3-packages. - the VM's do not start automatically, but they start with xm create. Hmm. Please show the xend log (/var/log/xen/xend.log) from before the manual start. When I start a VM once with xm create, the next time it starts automatically. - I can ping and SSH the VM from the dom0, not from the internet. Please use wireshark/tshark/tcpdump to find the interface where is gets lost. My problem is that I don't have a xenbr-device: [2008-09-22 10:49:20 3031] INFO (XendNetwork:114) Not recreating missing unmanaged network xenbr1 Special on my machine is that I use eth1 and not eth0: -- xen:/var/log/xen# ifconfig eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:30:48:93:50:3d inet addr:91.198.178.10 Bcast:91.198.178.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 inet6 addr: fe80::230:48ff:fe93:503d/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:12572 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:7291 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:9428884 (8.9 MiB) TX bytes:738404 (721.0 KiB) loLink encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:48 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:48 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:4365 (4.2 KiB) TX bytes:4365 (4.2 KiB) peth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:30:48:93:50:3d inet6 addr: fe80::230:48ff:fe93:503d/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING PROMISC MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:12757 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:7343 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 RX bytes:9626551 (9.1 MiB) TX bytes:739319 (721.9 KiB) Memory:e820-e822 vif1.0Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr fe:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff inet6 addr: fe80::fcff::feff:/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING PROMISC MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:615 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:2619 errors:0 dropped:8 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:32 RX bytes:37966 (37.0 KiB) TX bytes:168744 (164.7 KiB) vif2.0Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr fe:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff inet6 addr: fe80::fcff::feff:/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING PROMISC MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:1 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:2534 errors:0 dropped:6 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:32 RX bytes:28 (28.0 B) TX bytes:162432 (158.6 KiB) vif3.0Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr fe:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff inet6 addr: fe80::fcff::feff:/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING PROMISC MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:1 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:2530 errors:0 dropped:6 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:32 RX bytes:28 (28.0 B) TX bytes:162200 (158.3 KiB) - Please make sure that the domains are restarted and not only restored. I rebooted the machine, is that enough? Also please show the output of xm dmesg and dmesg. My message became too long. You can see them here: http://www.vandervlis.nl/log With regards, Paul van der Vlis. -- http://www.vandervlis.nl/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Got a response from Novell, including a workaround. Next try: http://194.39.182.225/debian/xen/try4. | a01d76fa67414fd157c7f50be89525cc1f03dace linux-headers-2.6.26-1-xen-686_2.6.26-6_i386.deb | 6ed1653d3f8f68026803529bee10dec9e772f706 linux-headers-2.6.26-1-xen-amd64_2.6.26-6_amd64.deb | 7d70566bda9719b9e4c1c310150da76768019d9c linux-image-2.6.26-1-xen-686_2.6.26-6_i386.deb | 19e1a1d2f2dc085ac38968246fcb0e375c9cd14c linux-image-2.6.26-1-xen-amd64_2.6.26-6_amd64.deb | e09de4e292cd7f00fc98689ddec3ad7712ec47e1 linux-modules-2.6.26-1-xen-686_2.6.26-6_i386.deb | 9af0b3015f8d0ea433d06cf2fe9d0055697be485 linux-modules-2.6.26-1-xen-amd64_2.6.26-6_amd64.deb | cafb31d7ef45b26b23f1e3c30b0785b4bfc2cd4d xen-linux-system-2.6.26-1-xen-686_2.6.26-6_i386.deb | 250d7f2a59603e9203840f465a00dd0e990103d1 xen-linux-system-2.6.26-1-xen-amd64_2.6.26-6_amd64.deb Hi, It seems that this try also have some problems. My Dom0 crashed with the following in kern.log: Sep 24 13:43:04 cleopatra kernel: [197107.406536] named[4222]: segfault at 48 ip 7fd39857f267 sp 41685c30 error 4 in libdns.so.43.0.1[7fd398509000+149000] Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873262] Bad page state in process 'named' Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873264] page:880002359960 flags:0x00040004 mapping: mapcount:0 count:0 Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873388] Trying to fix it up, but a reboot is needed Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873389] Backtrace: Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873838] Pid: 4222, comm: named Not tainted 2.6.26-1-xen-amd64 #1 Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873838] Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873838] Call Trace: Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873838] [802683e4] bad_page+0x6b/0x95 Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873838] [80268b33] free_hot_cold_page+0x89/0x1ba Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873838] [802bed08] elf_core_dump+0xaea/0xc1a Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873838] [8028ff40] do_coredump+0x76f/0x7ff Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873838] [80366be8] notify_update+0x2b/0x30 Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873838] [8036adc7] vt_console_print+0x26f/0x2ab Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873838] [80236014] free_uid+0x3f/0xd5 Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873838] [80236be7] recalc_sigpending+0xe/0x38 Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873897] [80238db6] get_signal_to_deliver+0x3aa/0x40b Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873932] [8020a907] do_notify_resume+0xa0/0x832 Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873962] [8020e7a8] get_nsec_offset+0x9/0x2c Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.873992] [8020e804] local_clock+0x39/0x83 Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.874024] [80222f78] __dequeue_entity+0x25/0x69 Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.874055] [80222fd4] set_next_entity+0x18/0x3a Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.874088] [80218351] do_page_fault+0xcc7/0xf50 Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.874119] [8043450b] thread_return+0x3e/0xdb Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.874151] [80218351] do_page_fault+0xcc7/0xf50 Sep 24 13:43:17 cleopatra kernel: [197120.874184] [8020bb29] retint_signal+0x57/0xae This is repeated a couple of times, then Sep 24 13:43:19 cleopatra kernel: [197122.341733] Eeek! page_mapcount(page) went negative! (-1) Sep 24 13:43:19 cleopatra kernel: [197122.341769] page pfn = 7b Sep 24 13:43:19 cleopatra kernel: [197122.341793] page-flags = 40004 Sep 24 13:43:19 cleopatra kernel: [197122.341818] page-count = 0 Sep 24 13:43:19 cleopatra kernel: [197122.341843] page-mapping = Sep 24 13:43:19 cleopatra kernel: [197122.341878] vma-vm_ops = 0x0 Sep 24 13:43:19 cleopatra kernel: [197122.341910] [ cut here ] Sep 24 13:43:19 cleopatra kernel: [197122.341938] kernel BUG at mm/rmap.c:669! Sep 24 13:43:19 cleopatra kernel: [197122.341964] invalid opcode: [1] SMP Sep 24 13:43:19 cleopatra kernel: [197122.341997] CPU 0 Sep 24 13:43:19 cleopatra kernel: [197122.342022] Modules linked in: xt_tcpudp xt_physdev iptable_filter ip_tables x_tables bridge netloop video output ac battery ipv6 xfs reiserfs ext2 sha256_generic aes_x86_64 aes_generic cbc dm_crypt crypto_blkcipher raid456 async_xor async_memcpy async_tx xor loop iTCO_wdt i2c_i801 serio_raw i2c_core psmouse rng_core pcspkr container i3000_edac shpchp pci_hotplug button edac_core evdev joydev ext3 jbd mbcache dm_mirror dm_log dm_snapshot dm_mod raid1 md_mod ide_disk ide_pci_generic piix ide_core sd_mod ata_generic ahci ehci_hcd sata_sil24 uhci_hcd e1000e libata dock 3w_9xxx scsi_mod thermal processor fan thermal_sys Sep 24 13:43:19 cleopatra kernel: [197122.342475] Pid: 4220, comm: named Tainted: GB
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 5:19 PM, LM Jogbäck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Got a response from Novell, including a workaround. Next try: http://194.39.182.225/debian/xen/try4. | a01d76fa67414fd157c7f50be89525cc1f03dace linux-headers-2.6.26-1-xen-686_2.6.26-6_i386.deb | 6ed1653d3f8f68026803529bee10dec9e772f706 linux-headers-2.6.26-1-xen-amd64_2.6.26-6_amd64.deb | 7d70566bda9719b9e4c1c310150da76768019d9c linux-image-2.6.26-1-xen-686_2.6.26-6_i386.deb | 19e1a1d2f2dc085ac38968246fcb0e375c9cd14c linux-image-2.6.26-1-xen-amd64_2.6.26-6_amd64.deb | e09de4e292cd7f00fc98689ddec3ad7712ec47e1 linux-modules-2.6.26-1-xen-686_2.6.26-6_i386.deb | 9af0b3015f8d0ea433d06cf2fe9d0055697be485 linux-modules-2.6.26-1-xen-amd64_2.6.26-6_amd64.deb | cafb31d7ef45b26b23f1e3c30b0785b4bfc2cd4d xen-linux-system-2.6.26-1-xen-686_2.6.26-6_i386.deb | 250d7f2a59603e9203840f465a00dd0e990103d1 xen-linux-system-2.6.26-1-xen-amd64_2.6.26-6_amd64.deb Hi, It seems that this try also have some problems. My Dom0 crashed with the following in kern.log: Forget to tell that this is a C2D-machine running amd64. If I can provide more information, please let me know. /LM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:03:13AM -0300, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote: I upgraded a dom0 I maintain to Lenny, the kernel got upgraded and I had of course a boot failure when trying to boot Xen 3.2 and linux 2.6.26. I'm not really sure about the reason since it is a remotely hosted box, but I had to go back to 2.6.18. Something is fishy with your boot configuration. I've multiple dom0s running lenny; kernel 2.6.26 is installed of course, but grub always puts the Xen-enabled 2.6.18 before 2.6.26, so the new kernel won't be booted unless you select it manually. Gabor -- - MTA SZTAKI Computer and Automation Research Institute Hungarian Academy of Sciences - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Bastian Blank schreef: On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 08:57:40PM -0300, André Luís Lopes wrote: Bastian Blank escreveu: On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 06:52:38PM +0200, Bastian Blank wrote: Next try: http://194.39.182.225/debian/xen/try2. Checksums: | facc08ef408b745052189d99e971ee0d0c01450c linux-headers-2.6.26-1-xen-686_2.6.26-6_i386.deb | e819d7a6d849b738f39c4988b1f6c722f81eb5e1 linux-headers-2.6.26-1-xen-amd64_2.6.26-6_amd64.deb | 7b8659fd984f8a1711fd5324bed20ad5b3f168bc linux-image-2.6.26-1-xen-686_2.6.26-6_i386.deb | 7e01af430254ac90203fcf4c0ba7bf49ca9c7e4d linux-image-2.6.26-1-xen-amd64_2.6.26-6_amd64.deb | e2b3ea5a57d3dfe89defe57c595a5a7f0025bbbc linux-modules-2.6.26-1-xen-686_2.6.26-6_i386.deb | 73e9bb968768e2920735f7eb77fd9667f0ffce20 linux-modules-2.6.26-1-xen-amd64_2.6.26-6_amd64.deb | 07ef8c3b6c4e2496afd3fc86347f5cf640a644f9 xen-linux-system-2.6.26-1-xen-686_2.6.26-6_i386.deb | ddfd7db322b8540cb0f606f974758e883d416a67 xen-linux-system-2.6.26-1-xen-amd64_2.6.26-6_amd64.deb Great that there seems to be a amd64 port now! Do these packages have a dom0 ? With regards, Paul van der Vlis. -- http://www.vandervlis.nl/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 10:20:19AM +0200, Paul van der Vlis wrote: Bastian Blank schreef: On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 08:57:40PM -0300, André Luís Lopes wrote: Bastian Blank escreveu: On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 06:52:38PM +0200, Bastian Blank wrote: Next try: http://194.39.182.225/debian/xen/try2. Great that there seems to be a amd64 port now! Do these packages have a dom0 ? That was the reason of that stunt. Bastian -- Bones: The man's DEAD, Jim! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Thursday 18 September 2008, Bastian Blank wrote: On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 10:20:19AM +0200, Paul van der Vlis wrote: Bastian Blank schreef: On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 08:57:40PM -0300, André Luís Lopes wrote: Bastian Blank escreveu: On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 06:52:38PM +0200, Bastian Blank wrote: Next try: http://194.39.182.225/debian/xen/try2. Great that there seems to be a amd64 port now! Do these packages have a dom0 ? That was the reason of that stunt. I want just state, that http://194.39.182.225/debian/xen/try3/ works like a charme, even with hvm. With kind regards, Jan. -- Never write mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], you have been warned! -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GIT d-- s+: a- C+++ UL P+ L+++ E- W+++ N+++ o++ K++ w--- O M V- PS PE Y++ PGP++ t-- 5 X R tv- b+ DI- D++ G++ e++ h-- r+++ y+++ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Bastian Blank schreef: On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 10:20:19AM +0200, Paul van der Vlis wrote: Bastian Blank schreef: On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 08:57:40PM -0300, André Luís Lopes wrote: Bastian Blank escreveu: On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 06:52:38PM +0200, Bastian Blank wrote: Next try: http://194.39.182.225/debian/xen/try2. Great that there seems to be a amd64 port now! Do these packages have a dom0 ? That was the reason of that stunt. I have it running on my amd64 machine! xen:/etc/xen# cd xen:~# uname -a Linux xen 2.6.26-1-xen-amd64 #1 SMP Thu Sep 18 11:11:47 CEST 2008 x86_64 GNU/Linux xen:~# xm list NameID Mem VCPUs State Time(s) Domain-0 0 3760 2 r- 18.1 ns3.vandervlis.nl2 128 2 -b 2.0 testjepaul 1 128 2 -b 1.5 xen:~# ssh ns3.vandervlis.nl [EMAIL PROTECTED]'s password: Last login: Thu Sep 18 11:45:04 2008 from xen.vandervlis.nl Linux ns3.vandervlis.nl 2.6.18-6-xen-amd64 #1 SMP Tue Aug 19 06:15:09 UTC 2008 x86_64 The programs included with the Debian GNU/Linux system are free software; the exact distribution terms for each program are described in the individual files in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright. Debian GNU/Linux comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by applicable law. ns3:~# uname -a Linux ns3.vandervlis.nl 2.6.18-6-xen-amd64 #1 SMP Tue Aug 19 06:15:09 UTC 2008 x86_64 GNU/Linux ns3:~# I have still 2 problems (maybe more): - the VM's do not start automatically, but they start with xm create. - I can ping and SSH the VM from the dom0, not from the internet. xen:~# ifconfig eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:30:48:93:50:3d inet addr:91.198.178.10 Bcast:91.198.178.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 inet6 addr: fe80::230:48ff:fe93:503d/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:3348 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:1023 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:207760 (202.8 KiB) TX bytes:117134 (114.3 KiB) loLink encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:67 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:67 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:6161 (6.0 KiB) TX bytes:6161 (6.0 KiB) peth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:30:48:93:50:3d inet6 addr: fe80::230:48ff:fe93:503d/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING PROMISC MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:3289 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:863 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 RX bytes:240860 (235.2 KiB) TX bytes:97272 (94.9 KiB) Memory:e820-e822 vif1.0Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr fe:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff inet6 addr: fe80::fcff::feff:/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING PROMISC MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:7 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:989 errors:0 dropped:6 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:32 RX bytes:412 (412.0 B) TX bytes:66242 (64.6 KiB) vif2.0Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr fe:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff inet6 addr: fe80::fcff::feff:/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING PROMISC MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:527 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:1143 errors:0 dropped:4 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:32 RX bytes:54741 (53.4 KiB) TX bytes:82032 (80.1 KiB) -- -- ns3:~# ifconfig eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:16:3E:7A:06:5E inet addr:91.198.178.101 Bcast:91.198.178.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 inet6 addr: fe80::216:3eff:fe7a:65e/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:1068 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:497 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:77074 (75.2 KiB) TX bytes:58029 (56.6 KiB) loLink encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:2 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:2 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:210 (210.0 b) TX bytes:210 (210.0 b) With regards, Paul van der Vlis. -- http://www.vandervlis.nl/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 11:52:09AM +0200, Paul van der Vlis wrote: I have it running on my amd64 machine! Okay. - the VM's do not start automatically, but they start with xm create. Hmm. Please show the xend log (/var/log/xen/xend.log) from before the manual start. - I can ping and SSH the VM from the dom0, not from the internet. Please use wireshark/tshark/tcpdump to find the interface where is gets lost. Please make sure that the domains are restarted and not only restored. Also please show the output of xm dmesg and dmesg. Bastian -- Vulcans never bluff. -- Spock, The Doomsday Machine, stardate 4202.1 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Hi, Bastian Blank wrote: Next try: http://194.39.182.225/debian/xen/try3. This fixes a warning in the PCI registration and again uses xencons. I tried both try2 and try3 amd64-debs on a Lenny server (without previous xen install). After some initial errors (probably issues with the bridge I forgot to setup) it works fine. I didn't do any testing under load. Jurrit -- email | [EMAIL PROTECTED] website | http://www.virtualconcepts.nl tel | +31 (0)13 466 3078 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Hello, I'm subscribed, no need to CC me. On Thu, 2008-09-18 at 09:01 +0200, Gabor Gombas wrote: On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:03:13AM -0300, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote: I upgraded a dom0 I maintain to Lenny, the kernel got upgraded and I had of course a boot failure when trying to boot Xen 3.2 and linux 2.6.26. I'm not really sure about the reason since it is a remotely hosted box, but I had to go back to 2.6.18. Something is fishy with your boot configuration. I've multiple dom0s running lenny; kernel 2.6.26 is installed of course, but grub always puts the Xen-enabled 2.6.18 before 2.6.26, so the new kernel won't be booted unless you select it manually. Notice that I didn't say it booted without intervention. While my xen-enabled 2.6.18 is not the first option, the default is set for the correct one by update-grub, it seems (4). This is my menu.lst file contents: title Xen 3.0.3-1-i386-pae / Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-1-xen-686 root(hd0,0) kernel /xen-3.0.3-1-i386-pae.gz module /vmlinuz-2.6.26-1-xen-686 root=/dev/md1 ro panic=30 console=tty0 module /initrd.img-2.6.26-1-xen-686 title Xen 3.2-1-i386 / Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-1-xen-686 root(hd0,0) kernel /xen-3.2-1-i386.gz module /vmlinuz-2.6.26-1-xen-686 root=/dev/md1 ro panic=30 console=tty0 module /initrd.img-2.6.26-1-xen-686 title Xen 3.0.3-1-i386-pae / Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-1-686-bigmem root(hd0,0) kernel /xen-3.0.3-1-i386-pae.gz module /vmlinuz-2.6.26-1-686-bigmem root=/dev/md1 ro panic=30 console=tty0 module /initrd.img-2.6.26-1-686-bigmem title Xen 3.2-1-i386 / Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-1-686-bigmem root(hd0,0) kernel /xen-3.2-1-i386.gz module /vmlinuz-2.6.26-1-686-bigmem root=/dev/md1 ro panic=30 console=tty0 module /initrd.img-2.6.26-1-686-bigmem title Xen 3.0.3-1-i386-pae / Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.18-6-xen-686 root(hd0,0) kernel /xen-3.0.3-1-i386-pae.gz module /vmlinuz-2.6.18-6-xen-686 root=/dev/md1 ro panic=30 console=tty0 module /initrd.img-2.6.18-6-xen-686 title Xen 3.2-1-i386 / Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.18-6-xen-686 root(hd0,0) kernel /xen-3.2-1-i386.gz module /vmlinuz-2.6.18-6-xen-686 root=/dev/md1 ro panic=30 console=tty0 module /initrd.img-2.6.18-6-xen-686 title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-1-xen-686 root(hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.26-1-xen-686 root=/dev/md1 ro panic=30 initrd /initrd.img-2.6.26-1-xen-686 title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-1-xen-686 (single-user mode) root(hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.26-1-xen-686 root=/dev/md1 ro panic=30 single initrd /initrd.img-2.6.26-1-xen-686 title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-1-686-bigmem root(hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.26-1-686-bigmem root=/dev/md1 ro panic=30 initrd /initrd.img-2.6.26-1-686-bigmem title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-1-686-bigmem (single-user mode) root(hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.26-1-686-bigmem root=/dev/md1 ro panic=30 single initrd /initrd.img-2.6.26-1-686-bigmem title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.18-6-xen-686 root(hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.18-6-xen-686 root=/dev/md1 ro panic=30 initrd /initrd.img-2.6.18-6-xen-686 title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.18-6-xen-686 (single-user mode) root(hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.18-6-xen-686 root=/dev/md1 ro panic=30 single initrd /initrd.img-2.6.18-6-xen-686 title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.18-6-686-bigmem root(hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.18-6-686-bigmem root=/dev/md1 ro panic=30 initrd /initrd.img-2.6.18-6-686-bigmem title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.18-6-686-bigmem (single-user mode) root(hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.18-6-686-bigmem root=/dev/md1 ro panic=30 single initrd /initrd.img-2.6.18-6-686-bigmem See you, -- Gustavo Noronha Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian Project signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Good morning, On Wednesday 17 September 2008, Paul van der Vlis wrote: since we have rolled out over 50 dom0 with etch, we are really interested into having xen dom0 support in lenny. So far I know you can run Lenny as a dom0, but not with the Lenny kernel. You can e.g. use the Etch Xen kernel or the Xensource kernel, both Linux 2.6.18. thats not what I understand as dom0 support in lenny. I'm looking for security support also for the kernel. I guess even if it's planed to release lenny+1/2 with a dom0 kernel, we have the chance to have 2 pita: * there will no dom0 support from upstream available in reasonable time * security support for dom0 etch kernel packages ends without a replacement available With kind regards, Jan. -- Never write mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], you have been warned! -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GIT d-- s+: a- C+++ UL P+ L+++ E- W+++ N+++ o++ K++ w--- O M V- PS PE Y++ PGP++ t-- 5 X R tv- b+ DI- D++ G++ e++ h-- r+++ y+++ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Jan Wagner schreef: since we have rolled out over 50 dom0 with etch, we are really interested into having xen dom0 support in lenny. So far I know you can run Lenny as a dom0, but not with the Lenny kernel. You can e.g. use the Etch Xen kernel or the Xensource kernel, both Linux 2.6.18. It's expected that a dom0 will be included in Linux 2.6.28 or 29, after some time there will be such a kernel for Lenny. And this will get security support when lenny-and-a-half is released. ( but, I must say: I have tried to upgrade my 64-bit Etch dom0 to Lenny, but it still does not work at the moment ) With regards, Paul van der Vlis. -- http://www.vandervlis.nl/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 09:42:13AM +0200, Jan Wagner wrote: Good morning, On Wednesday 17 September 2008, Paul van der Vlis wrote: since we have rolled out over 50 dom0 with etch, we are really interested into having xen dom0 support in lenny. So far I know you can run Lenny as a dom0, but not with the Lenny kernel. You can e.g. use the Etch Xen kernel or the Xensource kernel, both Linux 2.6.18. thats not what I understand as dom0 support in lenny. I'm looking for security support also for the kernel. I guess even if it's planed to release lenny+1/2 with a dom0 kernel, we have the chance to have 2 pita: * there will no dom0 support from upstream available in reasonable time You can monitor these pages for dom0 related info: dom0 (and other pv_ops) patches: http://xenbits.xensource.com/paravirt_ops/patches.hg/ General information/progress about pv_ops upstream Xen kernel: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps -- Pasi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, 2008-09-17 at 09:31 +0200, Paul van der Vlis wrote: ( but, I must say: I have tried to upgrade my 64-bit Etch dom0 to Lenny, but it still does not work at the moment ) I upgraded a dom0 I maintain to Lenny, the kernel got upgraded and I had of course a boot failure when trying to boot Xen 3.2 and linux 2.6.26. I'm not really sure about the reason since it is a remotely hosted box, but I had to go back to 2.6.18. See you, -- Gustavo Noronha Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian Project signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello kov, Gustavo Noronha Silva escreveu: On Wed, 2008-09-17 at 09:31 +0200, Paul van der Vlis wrote: ( but, I must say: I have tried to upgrade my 64-bit Etch dom0 to Lenny, but it still does not work at the moment ) I upgraded a dom0 I maintain to Lenny, the kernel got upgraded and I had of course a boot failure when trying to boot Xen 3.2 and linux 2.6.26. I'm not really sure about the reason since it is a remotely hosted box, but I had to go back to 2.6.18. Yes, this will happen as there's no official dom0 support for kernels which are newer than 2.6.18 coming from XenSource. Etch had a kernel which had dom0 support as it was based exactly on 2.6.18. We are discussing exactly this subject here. The distros which wants to have a working dom0 support would need to do one more forward-porting work so dom0 support would be available on later kernels (2.6.26, por example). It seems that SuSE did the work fot 2.6.26. The idea is to use a paravirt_ops based kernel in the future, possibly starting on Lenny+1/2, which would support dom0 natively without the need of a non-official/non-supported forward-port. Regards, - -- André Luís Lopes [EMAIL PROTECTED],debian}.org http://www.andrelop.org/blog/ Public GPG KeyID : 9D1B82F6 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkjRTyUACgkQW4/i9Z0bgvbuxQCgiU4dVH8T4K6tEdThOH3xcpv0 SLsAoIkecfUBKWucq/6em8WDGcz51vpY =uoDF -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, 2008-09-17 at 15:40 -0300, André Luís Lopes wrote: Gustavo Noronha Silva escreveu: On Wed, 2008-09-17 at 09:31 +0200, Paul van der Vlis wrote: ( but, I must say: I have tried to upgrade my 64-bit Etch dom0 to Lenny, but it still does not work at the moment ) I upgraded a dom0 I maintain to Lenny, the kernel got upgraded and I had of course a boot failure when trying to boot Xen 3.2 and linux 2.6.26. I'm not really sure about the reason since it is a remotely hosted box, but I had to go back to 2.6.18. Yes, this will happen as there's no official dom0 support for kernels which are newer than 2.6.18 coming from XenSource. Etch had a kernel which had dom0 support as it was based exactly on 2.6.18. Yeah, I realized that. My goal with my email was to actually say that the system does work correctly after the upgrade, even if the kernel is 'outdated', but I just noticed that I failed to mention that hehe. So here it is. See you, -- Gustavo Noronha Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian Project signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Goswin von Brederlow a écrit : Gunnar Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Goswin von Brederlow dijo [Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:10:30PM +0200]: I don't think that any of the alternatives are valid candidates yet: - Linux-Vserver, OpenVZ: clearly not the same use case. - Virtualbox, qemu: poor performance under some workloads. Unusable for production work. Emulation is just too slow. The group of people that can live with that much slow down compared to xen is miniscule. Just to state the obvious: I understand your lines applie to virtualbox and qemu, not to linux-vserver, which is completely usable for production work - although it's a completely different approach, completely useless to people who really want seemingly independent full machines (i.e. different OSs or kernel features). yes, obviously. :) - KVM: is very promising but is it really a valid alternative *now* for current Xen users? KVM needs hardware support and even then its I/O is slower. It also deadlocks the I/O under I/O load from time to time. I could live with the I/O slowdown but nothing will make hardware magically appear. Please explain further on this. Do you mean that xen can run paravirtualized hosts without the hardware features (i.e. the lesser CPUs sold nowadays) while kvm does require VMX/SVM? Yes, xen with paravirtualized hosts runs on cpus without hardware virtualization. I have not done extensive testing yet (I'm a newbie to both approaches), but I don't feel the slowdown you mention when under kvm. The normal kvm io uses the qemu device emulation and is dead slow and unsecure. As such it is pretty much out of the question for production work. But kvm can also use the virtio drivers that raise the network speed to slightly over 40MB/s. Disk speed is slower but that might just be my laptops disk. With latest kvm version (71), I am able to reach 174 MB/s throughput on the virtio network interface, so it is now comparable to Xen. Now with xen on the other hand I get up to 180MB/s throughput on the network interface. Greetings, MfG Goswin -- .''`. Aurelien Jarno | GPG: 1024D/F1BCDB73 : :' : Debian developer | Electrical Engineer `. `' [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] `-people.debian.org/~aurel32 | www.aurel32.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Guido Günther dijo [Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 04:34:25PM -0230]: On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 08:37:01AM +0100, Ian Campbell wrote: [..snip..] dom0 support is being worked on by Fedora people (I think) but there are no patches upstream yet. We could recommend kvm+xenner+libvirt as dom0 for people with hardware virtualization support: http://kraxel.fedorapeople.org/xenner/ I don't think we have this packaged yet though. If anybody wants to work on this I'd be happy to help. Umh... AFAICT, that would only work for people using Xen for paravirtualization, not for full virtualization. Nowadays, Xen's administration tools are still way more complete than KVM's - But I think it is in place to tell people... That KVM is the way. -- Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 2:54 AM, Ben Hutchings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be available any day now from ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/. Is it possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26? Is the forward-ported Xen patch for 2.6.26 available somewhere, so that an unofficial build of a dom0 2.6.26 for debian could be build? /LM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 09:15:09PM +0200, LM Jogbäck wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 2:54 AM, Ben Hutchings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be available any day now from ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/. Is it possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26? Is the forward-ported Xen patch for 2.6.26 available somewhere, so that an unofficial build of a dom0 2.6.26 for debian could be build? Not yet. Keep watching that directory. Ben. -- Ben Hutchings Who are all these weirdos? - David Bowie, about L-Space IRC channel #afp signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 08:37:01AM +0100, Ian Campbell wrote: [..snip..] dom0 support is being worked on by Fedora people (I think) but there are no patches upstream yet. We could recommend kvm+xenner+libvirt as dom0 for people with hardware virtualization support: http://kraxel.fedorapeople.org/xenner/ I don't think we have this packaged yet though. If anybody wants to work on this I'd be happy to help. Cheers, -- Guido -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 01:54:50AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: snip Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated into vanilla linus kernels soon.. Status/todo: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps This xensource wiki page was just updated to contain up-to-date status, ie. features present in 2.6.26 and features submitted for 2.6.27. Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0 SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be available any day now from ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/. Is it possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26? Interesting.. do you know if they have dom0 support etc included? based on pv_ops? -- Pasi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 11:12 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 01:54:50AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: snip Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated into vanilla linus kernels soon.. Status/todo: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps This xensource wiki page was just updated to contain up-to-date status, ie. features present in 2.6.26 and features submitted for 2.6.27. Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0 SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be available any day now from ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/. Is it possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26? Interesting.. do you know if they have dom0 support etc included? based on pv_ops? They include dom0 and are not based on paravirt_ops AFAIK. William signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Hi, On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 11:42 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: I guess it was faster _now_, but they'll have to live with the forward porting pain for years more now.. While this is true, the patches still allow for Debian to ship Lenny without a feature regression in Xen support. William signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Gunnar Wolf wrote: The problem also appears for vserver kernel. It is currently in Sid [1], and it has been for some time already. It seems it will very soon reach Lenny [2] (In case status changes by the moment you check it: linux-2.6 is going in today (thanks to manual hinting by luk) ) Greetings, [1] http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=linux-image-2.6.25-2-vserver-amd64 Where does this patch come from? I can't find anything about it on http://linux-vserver.org -- Bernd Zeimetz Debian GNU/Linux Developer GPG Fingerprint: 06C8 C9A2 EAAD E37E 5B2C BE93 067A AD04 C93B FF79 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 03:40:38AM -0500, William Pitcock wrote: On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 11:12 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 01:54:50AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: snip Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated into vanilla linus kernels soon.. Status/todo: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps This xensource wiki page was just updated to contain up-to-date status, ie. features present in 2.6.26 and features submitted for 2.6.27. Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0 SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be available any day now from ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/. Is it possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26? Interesting.. do you know if they have dom0 support etc included? based on pv_ops? They include dom0 and are not based on paravirt_ops AFAIK. Argh.. even more forward porting from xensource 2.6.18 tree instead of porting to pv_ops and getting the pathes integrated upstream to vanilla kernel :( I guess it was faster _now_, but they'll have to live with the forward porting pain for years more now.. -- Pasi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 03:51:12AM -0500, William Pitcock wrote: Hi, On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 11:42 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: I guess it was faster _now_, but they'll have to live with the forward porting pain for years more now.. While this is true, the patches still allow for Debian to ship Lenny without a feature regression in Xen support. Well that's true.. -- Pasi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Ben Hutchings wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: snip Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated into vanilla linus kernels soon.. Status/todo: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0 SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be available any day now from ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/. Is it possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26? dom0 looks currently out of reach, what we have is the snapshotting features of 2.6.27 for x86_32. see relevant posts of Ian Campbell on d-kernel -- maks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:50:22AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote: On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Ben Hutchings wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: snip Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated into vanilla linus kernels soon.. Status/todo: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0 SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be available any day now from ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/. Is it possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26? dom0 looks currently out of reach, what we have is the snapshotting features of 2.6.27 for x86_32. Hmm.. what do you mean with out of reach ? pv_ops dom0 is not yet ready/working, but those SLES 11 patches have the xensource (2.6.18 forward port) of dom0 and all the other xen kernel features for 2.6.26.. see relevant posts of Ian Campbell on d-kernel You mean this?: http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2008/07/msg00070.html I think the situation has changed after that.. See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27.. http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/x86/linux-2.6-tip.git;a=summary 9 hours agoIngo Molnar Merge branch 'xen-64bit' -- Pasi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:51:21PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:50:22AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote: On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Ben Hutchings wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: snip Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated into vanilla linus kernels soon.. Status/todo: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0 SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be available any day now from ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/. Is it possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26? dom0 looks currently out of reach, what we have is the snapshotting features of 2.6.27 for x86_32. Hmm.. what do you mean with out of reach ? pv_ops dom0 is not yet ready/working, but those SLES 11 patches have the xensource (2.6.18 forward port) of dom0 and all the other xen kernel features for 2.6.26.. sorry but no please read http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernelPatchAcceptanceGuidelines pv_ops is the upstream way we enabled them in 2.6.25 and enhance the existing 2.6.26 base. what are you moaning? see relevant posts of Ian Campbell on d-kernel You mean this?: http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2008/07/msg00070.html I think the situation has changed after that.. See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27.. http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/x86/linux-2.6-tip.git;a=summary 9 hours ago Ingo Molnar Merge branch 'xen-64bit' right but you seem to have zero idea about the x86 upstream git tree and it's dependencies. the merge of that is out of question for the upcoming stable kernel. -- maks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 12:51 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:50:22AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote: see relevant posts of Ian Campbell on d-kernel You mean this?: http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2008/07/msg00070.html I think the situation has changed after that.. The save/restore and ballooning patches were applied to the trunk 2.6.26 Debian kernel a few days back, enabling these features for 32 bit kernels. See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27.. http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/x86/linux-2.6-tip.git;a=summary 9 hours ago Ingo Molnar Merge branch 'xen-64bit' Lenny will be releasing with (at most) 2.6.26 and these patches are a bit too large and intrusive to non-Xen code paths to be backported. Ian. -- Ian Campbell Current Noise: Orange Goblin - Land Of Secret Dreams Speak softly and own a big, mean Doberman. -- Dave Millman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:35:09PM +0200, maximilian attems wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:51:21PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:50:22AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote: On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Ben Hutchings wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: snip Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated into vanilla linus kernels soon.. Status/todo: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0 SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be available any day now from ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/. Is it possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26? dom0 looks currently out of reach, what we have is the snapshotting features of 2.6.27 for x86_32. Hmm.. what do you mean with out of reach ? pv_ops dom0 is not yet ready/working, but those SLES 11 patches have the xensource (2.6.18 forward port) of dom0 and all the other xen kernel features for 2.6.26.. sorry but no please read http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernelPatchAcceptanceGuidelines pv_ops is the upstream way we enabled them in 2.6.25 and enhance the existing 2.6.26 base. what are you moaning? This thread was started to discuss possible ways to get xen dom0 support into lenny.. this SLES11 patch thingie was one option. But I guess it's not possible solution. see relevant posts of Ian Campbell on d-kernel You mean this?: http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2008/07/msg00070.html I think the situation has changed after that.. See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27.. http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/x86/linux-2.6-tip.git;a=summary 9 hours agoIngo Molnar Merge branch 'xen-64bit' right but you seem to have zero idea about the x86 upstream git tree and it's dependencies. the merge of that is out of question for the upcoming stable kernel. I only meant that those patches are queued for 2.6.27. -- Pasi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:57:26AM +0100, Ian Campbell wrote: On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 12:51 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:50:22AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote: see relevant posts of Ian Campbell on d-kernel You mean this?: http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2008/07/msg00070.html I think the situation has changed after that.. The save/restore and ballooning patches were applied to the trunk 2.6.26 Debian kernel a few days back, enabling these features for 32 bit kernels. Yep. See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27.. http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/x86/linux-2.6-tip.git;a=summary 9 hours agoIngo Molnar Merge branch 'xen-64bit' Lenny will be releasing with (at most) 2.6.26 and these patches are a bit too large and intrusive to non-Xen code paths to be backported. Yeah, I only meant those patches are queued for upstream 2.6.27. I didn't mean they should be applied to debian xen kernel for lenny. Like said, this thread was started to discuss about possible options of getting xen dom0 support into lenny, and I pasted that git link to give a status update of pv_ops work happening atm. -- Pasi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 02:23:26PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: Like said, this thread was started to discuss about possible options of getting xen dom0 support into lenny, and I pasted that git link to give a status update of pv_ops work happening atm. current best guess is lenny+half. having seen the lessons of etch+half and with the established procedure we should start sooner. 4 upstream version after the release as goal. that would be 2.6.30 if naming stays the same. most probably this would have much wider xen support including dom0. there still exists the unofficial waldi's dom0 2.6.18 latest xen branch based kernels. -- maks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 02:23:26PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:57:26AM +0100, Ian Campbell wrote: On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 12:51 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:50:22AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote: see relevant posts of Ian Campbell on d-kernel You mean this?: http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2008/07/msg00070.html I think the situation has changed after that.. The save/restore and ballooning patches were applied to the trunk 2.6.26 Debian kernel a few days back, enabling these features for 32 bit kernels. Yep. See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27.. http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/x86/linux-2.6-tip.git;a=summary 9 hours ago Ingo Molnar Merge branch 'xen-64bit' Lenny will be releasing with (at most) 2.6.26 and these patches are a bit too large and intrusive to non-Xen code paths to be backported. Yeah, I only meant those patches are queued for upstream 2.6.27. I didn't mean they should be applied to debian xen kernel for lenny. Like said, this thread was started to discuss about possible options of getting xen dom0 support into lenny, and I pasted that git link to give a status update of pv_ops work happening atm. Lenny will ship with a much worse Xen support than etch.. which sucks. Lenny will not support 64bit, no dom0.. so basicly lenny can only be used as a 32bit domU .. unless people build/get some other dom0 kernel. Obviously this is not debian's fault, and that's why we have this discussion now.. trying to see if there are any options of fixing the situation. (this thread was started on debian-xen list btw.. at some point it has falled off from CC list though) -- Pasi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 12:35 +0200, maximilian attems wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:51:21PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:50:22AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote: On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Ben Hutchings wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: snip Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated into vanilla linus kernels soon.. Status/todo: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0 SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be available any day now from ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/. Is it possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26? dom0 looks currently out of reach, what we have is the snapshotting features of 2.6.27 for x86_32. Hmm.. what do you mean with out of reach ? pv_ops dom0 is not yet ready/working, but those SLES 11 patches have the xensource (2.6.18 forward port) of dom0 and all the other xen kernel features for 2.6.26.. sorry but no please read http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernelPatchAcceptanceGuidelines pv_ops is the upstream way we enabled them in 2.6.25 and enhance the existing 2.6.26 base. what are you moaning? Without dom0, lenny will be unusable for several installations of mine which presently run an ugly combination of etch's dom0 and lenny's kernel. I would like to do that in a different way. If we will not see dom0 in linux-2.6 on Debian, we should at least have a 2.6.18 tree with dom0. William signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 14:11 +0200, maximilian attems wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:11:06AM -0500, William Pitcock wrote: Without dom0, lenny will be unusable for several installations of mine which presently run an ugly combination of etch's dom0 and lenny's kernel. I would like to do that in a different way. If we will not see dom0 in linux-2.6 on Debian, we should at least have a 2.6.18 tree with dom0. no. we will not have 2 different linux-2.6 versions in Lenny. please think of the implications before throwing out suggestions. What about the implications of introducing feature regressions? The patches to enable dom0 without pv-ops are available, yet they are unwanted. Wouldn't it be possible to build with both pv-ops and non-pv-ops for dom0? At any rate, please make it well documented where waldi's kernels are if you intend to not have dom0 in 2.6.26. William signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:11:06AM -0500, William Pitcock wrote: Without dom0, lenny will be unusable for several installations of mine which presently run an ugly combination of etch's dom0 and lenny's kernel. I would like to do that in a different way. If we will not see dom0 in linux-2.6 on Debian, we should at least have a 2.6.18 tree with dom0. no. we will not have 2 different linux-2.6 versions in Lenny. please think of the implications before throwing out suggestions. -- maks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:11:06AM -0500, William Pitcock wrote: On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 12:35 +0200, maximilian attems wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:51:21PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:50:22AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote: On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Ben Hutchings wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: snip Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated into vanilla linus kernels soon.. Status/todo: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0 SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be available any day now from ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/. Is it possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26? dom0 looks currently out of reach, what we have is the snapshotting features of 2.6.27 for x86_32. Hmm.. what do you mean with out of reach ? pv_ops dom0 is not yet ready/working, but those SLES 11 patches have the xensource (2.6.18 forward port) of dom0 and all the other xen kernel features for 2.6.26.. sorry but no please read http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernelPatchAcceptanceGuidelines pv_ops is the upstream way we enabled them in 2.6.25 and enhance the existing 2.6.26 base. what are you moaning? Without dom0, lenny will be unusable for several installations of mine which presently run an ugly combination of etch's dom0 and lenny's kernel. I would like to do that in a different way. If we will not see dom0 in linux-2.6 on Debian, we should at least have a 2.6.18 tree with dom0. For comparison Fedora people decided to release F9 with only domU support included.. they didn't want to do anymore forward porting from xensource 2.6.18 xen kernels (I bet noone wants to do that) and decided to include pv_ops based upstream kernel. And they wanted to have same versions of both the normal (baremetal) kernel and kernel-xen. but they patched 64bit xen pv_ops domU support in. So F9 supports both 32b and 64b pv_ops domU. F9 has 2.6.25 kernel. Fedora is planning to add dom0 support back to their kernel when pv_ops based dom0 is functional.. It's not yet certain if it will be ready for their next release (F10). Fedora people didn't want to include separate (2.6.18) xen dom0 kernel.. because it would have created too many problems with other tools/packages requiring features/APIs/ABIs from the kernel.. too big difference between 2.6.18 (xensource) and 2.6.25+ (vanilla/upstream linux). So yeah, just to wrap up their thoughts. -- Pasi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Goswin von Brederlow dijo [Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:10:30PM +0200]: I don't think that any of the alternatives are valid candidates yet: - Linux-Vserver, OpenVZ: clearly not the same use case. - Virtualbox, qemu: poor performance under some workloads. Unusable for production work. Emulation is just too slow. The group of people that can live with that much slow down compared to xen is miniscule. Just to state the obvious: I understand your lines applie to virtualbox and qemu, not to linux-vserver, which is completely usable for production work - although it's a completely different approach, completely useless to people who really want seemingly independent full machines (i.e. different OSs or kernel features). - KVM: is very promising but is it really a valid alternative *now* for current Xen users? KVM needs hardware support and even then its I/O is slower. It also deadlocks the I/O under I/O load from time to time. I could live with the I/O slowdown but nothing will make hardware magically appear. Please explain further on this. Do you mean that xen can run paravirtualized hosts without the hardware features (i.e. the lesser CPUs sold nowadays) while kvm does require VMX/SVM? I have not done extensive testing yet (I'm a newbie to both approaches), but I don't feel the slowdown you mention when under kvm. Greetings, -- Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 02:11:48PM +0200, maximilian attems wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:11:06AM -0500, William Pitcock wrote: Without dom0, lenny will be unusable for several installations of mine which presently run an ugly combination of etch's dom0 and lenny's kernel. I would like to do that in a different way. If we will not see dom0 in linux-2.6 on Debian, we should at least have a 2.6.18 tree with dom0. no. we will not have 2 different linux-2.6 versions in Lenny. please think of the implications before throwing out suggestions. So basicly Debian takes the same route as Fedora did (see my other mail about it). It's understandable from the distribution/kernel maintencance point of view. But it's really sucky for the users.. This needs good documentation in the release notes etc.. so people realize lenny won't support Xen virtualization anymore (running virtual machines on lenny host). -- Pasi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Gunnar Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Goswin von Brederlow dijo [Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:10:30PM +0200]: I don't think that any of the alternatives are valid candidates yet: - Linux-Vserver, OpenVZ: clearly not the same use case. - Virtualbox, qemu: poor performance under some workloads. Unusable for production work. Emulation is just too slow. The group of people that can live with that much slow down compared to xen is miniscule. Just to state the obvious: I understand your lines applie to virtualbox and qemu, not to linux-vserver, which is completely usable for production work - although it's a completely different approach, completely useless to people who really want seemingly independent full machines (i.e. different OSs or kernel features). yes, obviously. :) - KVM: is very promising but is it really a valid alternative *now* for current Xen users? KVM needs hardware support and even then its I/O is slower. It also deadlocks the I/O under I/O load from time to time. I could live with the I/O slowdown but nothing will make hardware magically appear. Please explain further on this. Do you mean that xen can run paravirtualized hosts without the hardware features (i.e. the lesser CPUs sold nowadays) while kvm does require VMX/SVM? Yes, xen with paravirtualized hosts runs on cpus without hardware virtualization. I have not done extensive testing yet (I'm a newbie to both approaches), but I don't feel the slowdown you mention when under kvm. The normal kvm io uses the qemu device emulation and is dead slow and unsecure. As such it is pretty much out of the question for production work. But kvm can also use the virtio drivers that raise the network speed to slightly over 40MB/s. Disk speed is slower but that might just be my laptops disk. Now with xen on the other hand I get up to 180MB/s throughput on the network interface. Greetings, MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Gunnar Wolf, le Wed 16 Jul 2008 07:42:37 -0500, a écrit : I could live with the I/O slowdown but nothing will make hardware magically appear. Please explain further on this. Do you mean that xen can run paravirtualized hosts without the hardware features (i.e. the lesser CPUs sold nowadays) while kvm does require VMX/SVM? Precisely. Samuel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27.. Lenny will not support 64bit, no dom0.. so basicly lenny can only be used as a 32bit domU .. unless people build/get some other dom0 kernel. What about the patches for x86-64 support in domU? If these are going to be included in 2.6.27 does it mean they qualify [1] to be included in the kernel for lenny? Thanks [1] http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernelPatchAcceptanceGuidelines
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:53:52PM +0300, Teodor wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27.. Lenny will not support 64bit, no dom0.. so basicly lenny can only be used as a 32bit domU .. unless people build/get some other dom0 kernel. What about the patches for x86-64 support in domU? If these are going to be included in 2.6.27 does it mean they qualify [1] to be included in the kernel for lenny? no. please read a thread before posting to it, that question is already answered twice. -- maks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:26:48PM +0200, maximilian attems wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:53:52PM +0300, Teodor wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27.. Lenny will not support 64bit, no dom0.. so basicly lenny can only be used as a 32bit domU .. unless people build/get some other dom0 kernel. What about the patches for x86-64 support in domU? If these are going to be included in 2.6.27 does it mean they qualify [1] to be included in the kernel for lenny? no. please read a thread before posting to it, that question is already answered twice. btw out of curiosity do you know if the kernel patch policy was different earlier (for etch), because xen kernel for etch (2.6.18-*-xen-686) contains non-upstream xen patches (from xensource).. -- Pasi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 09:44:00PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:26:48PM +0200, maximilian attems wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:53:52PM +0300, Teodor wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27.. Lenny will not support 64bit, no dom0.. so basicly lenny can only be used as a 32bit domU .. unless people build/get some other dom0 kernel. What about the patches for x86-64 support in domU? If these are going to be included in 2.6.27 does it mean they qualify [1] to be included in the kernel for lenny? no. please read a thread before posting to it, that question is already answered twice. btw out of curiosity do you know if the kernel patch policy was different earlier (for etch), because xen kernel for etch (2.6.18-*-xen-686) contains non-upstream xen patches (from xensource).. xen upstream back then ported forward their own patches *and* everybody expected their patches to be merged. earliest merge plans were floating for 2.6.15. reliance on external patches is always bad, kvm is in kernel. it doesn't try to duplicate dog and cat, but uses linux scheduler itself and so on.. also if release team still decides to push for 2.6.25, which is possible if 2.6.26 turns out bad, you still have much less xen features. -- maks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 08:56:24PM +0200, maximilian attems wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 09:44:00PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:26:48PM +0200, maximilian attems wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:53:52PM +0300, Teodor wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27.. Lenny will not support 64bit, no dom0.. so basicly lenny can only be used as a 32bit domU .. unless people build/get some other dom0 kernel. What about the patches for x86-64 support in domU? If these are going to be included in 2.6.27 does it mean they qualify [1] to be included in the kernel for lenny? no. please read a thread before posting to it, that question is already answered twice. btw out of curiosity do you know if the kernel patch policy was different earlier (for etch), because xen kernel for etch (2.6.18-*-xen-686) contains non-upstream xen patches (from xensource).. xen upstream back then ported forward their own patches *and* everybody expected their patches to be merged. earliest merge plans were floating for 2.6.15. Ok. This is what I expected happened back then. reliance on external patches is always bad, kvm is in kernel. it doesn't try to duplicate dog and cat, but uses linux scheduler itself and so on.. Yep. also if release team still decides to push for 2.6.25, which is possible if 2.6.26 turns out bad, you still have much less xen features. Indeed. This is why the situation with Xen for Lenny is really problematic.. -- Pasi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On 12/07/08 at 19:39 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 12:10:28AM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: We (Debian) should make a clear statement that users of Debian as dom0 will have at least one supported configuration at any time during the lenny lifetime. What I don't see you saying is that *you* are volunteering to step up and help provide security support for this kernel. So it's we when we're making a statement, but it's still they who would have to provide the actual support, AFAICS. How/if we will support Xen in lenny is more a policy decision than a technical decision, even if it has important technical aspects. Even if it's not optimal, I agree with do-ocracy for technical decisions. However, using it for everything is dangerous. Instead, I prefer to: 1/ understand the situation 2/ determine the possible solutions 3/ determine the best solutions, given external constraints (inc. manpower) 4/ try to find someone to do the work Throwing you are not going to do the work anyway, so you are irrelevant at everybody is not helpful at all, and just adds noise to the discussion, because we are still between stages 2 and 3 here. -- | Lucas Nussbaum | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/ | | jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG: 1024D/023B3F4F | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Tuesday 15 July 2008 13:08, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: How/if we will support Xen in lenny is more a policy decision than a technical decision, even if it has important technical aspects. Even if it's not optimal, I agree with do-ocracy for technical decisions. However, using it for everything is dangerous. Instead, I prefer to: 1/ understand the situation 2/ determine the possible solutions 3/ determine the best solutions, given external constraints (inc. manpower) 4/ try to find someone to do the work Throwing you are not going to do the work anyway, so you are irrelevant at everybody is not helpful at all, and just adds noise to the discussion, because we are still between stages 2 and 3 here. I find it a pity that your mail doesn't contain any argumentation for your postulations. For a start, I don't think it's obvious that this is a policy decision, nor that a do-ocracy is dangerous in a general sense. Xen is just one solution to virtualisation. I may agree that a general decision to support virtualisation on Debian could be a policy decision, but whether we'll support one specific technology, for which there are many alternatives, is very much a technical decision. Does it work, can we get it to work and do we have the people to keep it work after release? Thijs pgpauYcU0XOCG.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On 15/07/08 at 14:01 +0200, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote: Xen is just one solution to virtualisation. I may agree that a general decision to support virtualisation on Debian could be a policy decision, but whether we'll support one specific technology, for which there are many alternatives, is very much a technical decision. Does it work, can we get it to work and do we have the people to keep it work after release? Debian supported Xen in etch. Which of the many alternatives should Debian recommend to its users currently running a Debian dom0 in paravirt mode? I don't think that any of the alternatives are valid candidates yet: - Linux-Vserver, OpenVZ: clearly not the same use case. - Virtualbox, qemu: poor performance under some workloads. - KVM: is very promising but is it really a valid alternative *now* for current Xen users? This might change in a few months, of course, but in a few months lenny will be released. ;-) -- | Lucas Nussbaum | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/ | | jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG: 1024D/023B3F4F | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 01:08:23PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 12/07/08 at 19:39 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 12:10:28AM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: We (Debian) should make a clear statement that users of Debian as dom0 will have at least one supported configuration at any time during the lenny lifetime. What I don't see you saying is that *you* are volunteering to step up and help provide security support for this kernel. So it's we when we're making a statement, but it's still they who would have to provide the actual support, AFAICS. How/if we will support Xen in lenny is more a policy decision than a technical decision, even if it has important technical aspects. Even if it's not optimal, I agree with do-ocracy for technical decisions. However, using it for everything is dangerous. Instead, I prefer to: 1/ understand the situation 2/ determine the possible solutions 3/ determine the best solutions, given external constraints (inc. manpower) 4/ try to find someone to do the work Throwing you are not going to do the work anyway, so you are irrelevant at everybody is not helpful at all, and just adds noise to the discussion, because we are still between stages 2 and 3 here. The situation is pretty much like this: - Upstream vendor (Xensource) only develops 2.6.18 Xen dom0/domU kernel atm. - paravirt_ops (pv_ops) Xen support in vanilla (v2.6.24+) Linux kernels is currently domU only. Also it's 32bit PAE only, no 64bit yet. Other features are missing too (compared to xensource 2.6.18 xen kernel). - Xen kernel features from 2.6.18 are being ported and added slowly to 2.6.2x pv_ops kernels but it takes time and effort to get them ported and accepted upstream (by linus). Currently Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) is doing this work. I think currently he's working on getting 64bit domU support ready/integrated. - Redhat/Fedora has done some pv_ops xen dom0 support work, but it's not ready yet and it hasn't had much progress lately.. unfortunately. - 2.6.22 and 2.6.24 (non pv_ops) kernels with forward ported patches from 2.6.18 are a real pain for kernel maintainers.. - Fedora decided to drop dom0 xen kernel for Fedora 9. Fedora 9 only ships with xen pv_ops domU kernel. They're planning to add dom0 support back for Fedora 10 if/when (pv_ops) dom0 support is included in the upstream vanilla (linus) kernel. Some links: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0 -- Pasi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 15/07/08 at 14:01 +0200, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote: - KVM: is very promising but is it really a valid alternative *now* for current Xen users? That is an interesting question. We are doing some research on that topic right now. I've migrated some VMware and xen stuff on my own workstation to KVM, with highly encouraging results. That is, of course, different than a server situation, but a data point nonetheless. We have been happy with Xen in principle, but there have been enough strange things happen over the past year or two that we're not entirely comfortable with it anymore. These things include the hypervisor crashing on creation or removal of a domU, strange kernel oops in domUs, and severe brokenness of pciback. It should be noted that KVM does not include PCI backend support, though with the degree of brokenness of it in Xen, that may not be an issue. Also, KVM requires hardware virtualization support, which Xen does not. So it is not entirely a drop-in replacement. The fact that Xensource is supporting 2.6.18 only, and that work on KVM is integrated into the kernel upstream, is a strong argument to us for converting to KVM. Unless something changes drastically with Xen's kernel support, I can't see us doing anything but KVM long term. -- John -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 02:54:09PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 15/07/08 at 14:01 +0200, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote: Xen is just one solution to virtualisation. I may agree that a general decision to support virtualisation on Debian could be a policy decision, but whether we'll support one specific technology, for which there are many alternatives, is very much a technical decision. Does it work, can we get it to work and do we have the people to keep it work after release? Debian supported Xen in etch. Which of the many alternatives should Debian recommend to its users currently running a Debian dom0 in paravirt mode? I don't think that any of the alternatives are valid candidates yet: - Linux-Vserver, OpenVZ: clearly not the same use case. - Virtualbox, qemu: poor performance under some workloads. - KVM: is very promising but is it really a valid alternative *now* for current Xen users? One big difference between Xen and KVM is the fact that KVM always requires hardware virtualization (HVM) support from the CPU. Xen doesn't need that for paravirt guests (linux). Xen still is the most feature rich hypervisor.. that might change some day, of course. The biggest advantage of KVM is that it's included in vanilla kernel.. Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated into vanilla linus kernels soon.. Status/todo: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0 -- Pasi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: One big difference between Xen and KVM is the fact that KVM always requires hardware virtualization (HVM) support from the CPU. It uses the the qemu device emulation code, which is security wise one large catastrophe. Okay, Xen uses it also for full virtualized guests, which is the reason why I currently discurage anyone from using it. However this will change in the near future. The biggest advantage of KVM is that it's included in vanilla kernel.. Sure. This is the confession that small patchsets are much more likely to be accepted than large ones. Xen started long time ago and they drag a huge patch through the last years without the perspective to get anything in without much rework. Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated into vanilla linus kernels soon.. Yep. Bastian -- Witch! Witch! They'll burn ya! -- Hag, Tomorrow is Yesterday, stardate unknown signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 09:24:08AM -0500, John Goerzen wrote: Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 15/07/08 at 14:01 +0200, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote: - KVM: is very promising but is it really a valid alternative *now* for current Xen users? That is an interesting question. We are doing some research on that topic right now. I've migrated some VMware and xen stuff on my own workstation to KVM, with highly encouraging results. That is, of course, different than a server situation, but a data point nonetheless. We have been happy with Xen in principle, but there have been enough strange things happen over the past year or two that we're not entirely comfortable with it anymore. These things include the hypervisor crashing on creation or removal of a domU, strange kernel oops in domUs, and severe brokenness of pciback. It should be noted that KVM does not include PCI backend support, though with the degree of brokenness of it in Xen, that may not be an issue. Also, KVM requires hardware virtualization support, which Xen does not. So it is not entirely a drop-in replacement. The fact that Xensource is supporting 2.6.18 only, and that work on KVM is integrated into the kernel upstream, is a strong argument to us for converting to KVM. Unless something changes drastically with Xen's kernel support, I can't see us doing anything but KVM long term. Xensource has a developer working on getting xen patches ported to Linux pv_ops framework and integrated into upstream (vanilla) kernel. Vanilla Linux v2.6.26 already contains 32bit (PAE) paravirtual domU support with SMP, framebuffer, memory ballooning (contraction only) etc.. More features are being currently prepared for 2.6.27.. including 64bit domU support, save/restore/migration etc.. Atm biggest (most important) missing feature from vanilla kernel is dom0 support.. See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps So in short the situation is getting better slowly.. At the moment full Xen feature set is only available in xensource 2.6.18 kernel. -- Pasi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 09:24:08AM -0500, John Goerzen wrote: Xensource has a developer working on getting xen patches ported to Linux pv_ops framework and integrated into upstream (vanilla) kernel. That is, to me, only mildly encouraging. 2.6.18 came out on Sept. 19, 2006, and there haven't been official Xen patches on anything else since. I don't know if that programmer hasn't been able to be very productive, or if Xensource has just recently assigned someone to the task. But in any case, it does not speak well of the long-term viability of Xen. Not only that, but I like the KVM model of Linux as the hypervisor. Xen hypervisor is kinda finicky about hardware; I've had it refuse to boot properly on Athlon64 machines for instance. -- John -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 12:49:07PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote: Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 09:24:08AM -0500, John Goerzen wrote: Xensource has a developer working on getting xen patches ported to Linux pv_ops framework and integrated into upstream (vanilla) kernel. That is, to me, only mildly encouraging. 2.6.18 came out on Sept. 19, 2006, and there haven't been official Xen patches on anything else since. I don't know if that programmer hasn't been able to be very productive, or if Xensource has just recently assigned someone to the task. But in any case, it does not speak well of the long-term viability of Xen. Xensource is using 2.6.18 (RHEL5) in their own commercial product, so that's why they're focusing xen kernel development on that version.. Xensource tried getting xen patches integrated into upstream linux earlier, but it didn't succeed (too big changes?) and kernel developers decided they need to create this common pv_ops framework for running paravirtual linux on hypervisors.. So that has taken some time.. and only recently (some) xen features have been ported to this pv_ops framework and integrated into vanilla kernel.. more features are being ported. So yeah.. atm the xen/dom0 kernel situation is a bit shitty.. pv_ops (VMI) paravirtual linux kernels are also supported by VMware. -- Pasi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Lucas Nussbaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 15/07/08 at 14:01 +0200, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote: Xen is just one solution to virtualisation. I may agree that a general decision to support virtualisation on Debian could be a policy decision, but whether we'll support one specific technology, for which there are many alternatives, is very much a technical decision. Does it work, can we get it to work and do we have the people to keep it work after release? Debian supported Xen in etch. Which of the many alternatives should Debian recommend to its users currently running a Debian dom0 in paravirt mode? Isn't the policy decision in question here to only have one kernel source in a release? I don't think that any of the alternatives are valid candidates yet: - Linux-Vserver, OpenVZ: clearly not the same use case. - Virtualbox, qemu: poor performance under some workloads. Unusable for production work. Emulation is just too slow. The group of people that can live with that much slow down compared to xen is miniscule. - KVM: is very promising but is it really a valid alternative *now* for current Xen users? KVM needs hardware support and even then its I/O is slower. It also deadlocks the I/O under I/O load from time to time. I could live with the I/O slowdown but nothing will make hardware magically appear. This might change in a few months, of course, but in a few months lenny will be released. ;-) MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: snip Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated into vanilla linus kernels soon.. Status/todo: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0 SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be available any day now from ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/. Is it possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26? Ben. -- Ben Hutchings Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. - Donald Knuth signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Sat, Jul 12, 2008, Steve Langasek wrote: The distro used on dom0 is pretty uninteresting, given that part of the point of having Xen-style virtualization for servers is to a) be able to run different OSes in different guests, and b) not to run services in dom0.[1] A recent kernel to support new expensive hardware which you just bought for virtualization might be useful though. (However, I agree that copying over an old kernel to use new a distro userland's with an old kernel for a dom0 doesn't seem too useful.) -- Loïc Minier -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Paul van der Vlis wrote: Steve Langasek schreef: If the Debian security team is unwilling or unable to provide support for a 2.6.18 kernel over the lifetime of lenny, I'm happy to see us let dom0 be Somebody Else's Problem. I'm certainly happier with that than having us /claim/ to support 2.6.18, have users rely on that claim, and then not be able to deliver. Maybe we can stop with etch-and-a-half. For the security-team is supporting the etch-and-a-half kernel (2.6.24) a lot more work then supporting the etch-kernel. I think etch-and-a-half is a good idea, but the team is very late with it. Too late when Lenny is in time, in my opinion. If we abandon it now, all trouble we went through didn't serve anything and if we want to try it again, we kind of have to start over again. I don't think we should stop it, rather make it happen soon. Cheers Luk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 06:05:14PM -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: I think the first question to resolve is to establish that it *is* supported... I think that the prudent thing for Debian to do is to continue to support the older kernel if that is the only way to ensure Xen support for the users. I personally have a few servers running Xen that run stable. If the support for Xen in a stable release is not suitable, I would have to consider migrating those servers to some other distro. I would really hate to have to do that. The distro used on dom0 is pretty uninteresting, given that part of the point of having Xen-style virtualization for servers is to a) be able to run different OSes in different guests, and b) not to run services in dom0.[1] If the Debian security team is unwilling or unable to provide support for a 2.6.18 kernel over the lifetime of lenny, I'm happy to see us let dom0 be Somebody Else's Problem. I'm certainly happier with that than having us /claim/ to support 2.6.18, have users rely on that claim, and then not be able to deliver. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [1] I can sympathize with users who want to run Xen on systems for virtualization purposes while also being able to run a full desktop environment in dom0 where hardware is more accessible; but I think this is probably a fairly small group of people still given the hardware requirements, and in any case I don't think that's a use case that should compel us to overextend ourselves. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 12:10:28AM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: The problem I see with that is that people will be left without a supported dom0 kernel at some point during the etch lifetime. Do we have a plan to address that? Shouldn't we make it clear that we will support the etch kernel until a lenny+1/2 kernel is available, for example? Which we do you expect will support it? I haven't heard any comments from the security team indicating that they're willing to provide support for such a stale kernel beyond the normal support lifetime of etch. If there should happen not to be a lenny+1/2 kernel, how long would the security team be expected to provide security support for 2.6.18? Until the release of lenny+1? Until the end of the *lenny* support cycle? Wouldn't it be a good idea to ship a linux 2.6.18 kernel in lenny, only for dom0, so it's clear that it is supported? I think the first question to resolve is to establish that it *is* supported... If nothing changes, the only choice for users will be to run an etch dom0 (or an etch dom0 kernel with a lenny userland, but that doesn't change much). An etch dom0 will only be supported until the end of the etch support cycle. After that, users will need a supported upgrade path (and I would prefer it not to be use Ubuntu). I would note that, although built as part of the main 'linux' source package in Ubuntu, the Xen kernel images are in Ubuntu universe - which means any Xen-specific code is effectively not guaranteed to be covered by Canonical's security support anyway. So you might want to take a closer look at the security status of this, before deciding that Ubuntu is the right choice for a security-supported dom0 kernel (or before goading Debian folks into overcommitting themselves to Xen support in lenny using Ubuntu as a bogeyman ;). (N.B., I'm not speaking on behalf of the Ubuntu Xen folks; they may indeed have made arrangements with the security team to provide security coverage for the Xen kernels - I'm just saying not to assume it's a given.) We (Debian) should make a clear statement that users of Debian as dom0 will have at least one supported configuration at any time during the lenny lifetime. What I don't see you saying is that *you* are volunteering to step up and help provide security support for this kernel. So it's we when we're making a statement, but it's still they who would have to provide the actual support, AFAICS. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 06:01:30PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 06:05:14PM -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: I think the first question to resolve is to establish that it *is* supported... I think that the prudent thing for Debian to do is to continue to support the older kernel if that is the only way to ensure Xen support for the users. I personally have a few servers running Xen that run stable. If the support for Xen in a stable release is not suitable, I would have to consider migrating those servers to some other distro. I would really hate to have to do that. The distro used on dom0 is pretty uninteresting, given that part of the point of having Xen-style virtualization for servers is to a) be able to run different OSes in different guests, and b) not to run services in dom0.[1] If the Debian security team is unwilling or unable to provide support for a 2.6.18 kernel over the lifetime of lenny, I'm happy to see us let dom0 be Somebody Else's Problem. I'm certainly happier with that than having us /claim/ to support 2.6.18, have users rely on that claim, and then not be able to deliver. While agree that from a technical standpoint, that distro is rather uninteresting, I don't want to have increase the complexity of the networks I administer by bringing yet another distro into the mix. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 06:01:30PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: Hi, The distro used on dom0 is pretty uninteresting, given that part of the point of having Xen-style virtualization for servers is to a) be able to run different OSes in different guests, and b) not to run services in dom0.[1] Agreed, we shouldn't support arbitrary dom0s, but it would be nice to have one supported way to run dom0 in debian, be it etch or lenny... If we say run dom0 in etch at least can we have the limited etch needed for a dom0 to work blessed with an extended support, if not support 2.6.18 in lenny? Thanks, Guido -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 12:18:51PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: What are the plans for Xen for lenny? Is this situation likely to change before the release? It will ship the hypervisor and a domU kernel. For dom0 it will need either the etch or my own[1] kernel. This may be changed later if we can get a new kernel in the stable release. The problem I see with that is that people will be left without a supported dom0 kernel at some point during the etch lifetime. Do we have a plan to address that? Shouldn't we make it clear that we will support the etch kernel until a lenny+1/2 kernel is available, for example? Which we do you expect will support it? I haven't heard any comments from the security team indicating that they're willing to provide support for such a stale kernel beyond the normal support lifetime of etch. If there should happen not to be a lenny+1/2 kernel, how long would the security team be expected to provide security support for 2.6.18? Until the release of lenny+1? Until the end of the *lenny* support cycle? Wouldn't it be a good idea to ship a linux 2.6.18 kernel in lenny, only for dom0, so it's clear that it is supported? I think the first question to resolve is to establish that it *is* supported... -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 12:03:30PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 12:18:51PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: What are the plans for Xen for lenny? Is this situation likely to change before the release? It will ship the hypervisor and a domU kernel. For dom0 it will need either the etch or my own[1] kernel. This may be changed later if we can get a new kernel in the stable release. The problem I see with that is that people will be left without a supported dom0 kernel at some point during the etch lifetime. Do we have a plan to address that? Shouldn't we make it clear that we will support the etch kernel until a lenny+1/2 kernel is available, for example? Which we do you expect will support it? I haven't heard any comments from the security team indicating that they're willing to provide support for such a stale kernel beyond the normal support lifetime of etch. If there should happen not to be a lenny+1/2 kernel, how long would the security team be expected to provide security support for 2.6.18? Until the release of lenny+1? Until the end of the *lenny* support cycle? Wouldn't it be a good idea to ship a linux 2.6.18 kernel in lenny, only for dom0, so it's clear that it is supported? I think the first question to resolve is to establish that it *is* supported... I think that the prudent thing for Debian to do is to continue to support the older kernel if that is the only way to ensure Xen support for the users. I personally have a few servers running Xen that run stable. If the support for Xen in a stable release is not suitable, I would have to consider migrating those servers to some other distro. I would really hate to have to do that. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On 12/07/08 at 12:03 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 12:18:51PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: What are the plans for Xen for lenny? Is this situation likely to change before the release? It will ship the hypervisor and a domU kernel. For dom0 it will need either the etch or my own[1] kernel. This may be changed later if we can get a new kernel in the stable release. The problem I see with that is that people will be left without a supported dom0 kernel at some point during the etch lifetime. Do we have a plan to address that? Shouldn't we make it clear that we will support the etch kernel until a lenny+1/2 kernel is available, for example? Which we do you expect will support it? I haven't heard any comments from the security team indicating that they're willing to provide support for such a stale kernel beyond the normal support lifetime of etch. If there should happen not to be a lenny+1/2 kernel, how long would the security team be expected to provide security support for 2.6.18? Until the release of lenny+1? Until the end of the *lenny* support cycle? Wouldn't it be a good idea to ship a linux 2.6.18 kernel in lenny, only for dom0, so it's clear that it is supported? I think the first question to resolve is to establish that it *is* supported... If nothing changes, the only choice for users will be to run an etch dom0 (or an etch dom0 kernel with a lenny userland, but that doesn't change much). An etch dom0 will only be supported until the end of the etch support cycle. After that, users will need a supported upgrade path (and I would prefer it not to be use Ubuntu). We (Debian) should make a clear statement that users of Debian as dom0 will have at least one supported configuration at any time during the lenny lifetime. Shipping an additional 2.6.18 kernel in lenny is just one extreme solution. Another solution might work too, like stating that we (Debian) will support the etch dom0 kernel until a dom0 kernel is available in lenny (+ an interim period), even if the support cycle for etch ends before that. -- | Lucas Nussbaum | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/ | | jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG: 1024D/023B3F4F | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Vincent Bernat dijo [Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 10:08:09PM +0200]: The problem I see with that is that people will be left without a supported dom0 kernel at some point during the etch lifetime. Do we have a plan to address that? Shouldn't we make it clear that we will support the etch kernel until a lenny+1/2 kernel is available, for example? The problem also appears for vserver kernel. It is currently in Sid [1], and it has been for some time already. It seems it will very soon reach Lenny [2] (In case status changes by the moment you check it: linux-2.6 is going in today (thanks to manual hinting by luk) ) Greetings, [1] http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=linux-image-2.6.25-2-vserver-amd64 [2] http://release.debian.org/migration/testing.pl?package=linux-2.6 -- Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 21:53 +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: Hi, AFAIK, the status of Xen in lenny is currently the following: - no dom0 kernel - domU kernel only for i386 (no domU kernel for amd64) I was told (I don't remember where) that this is because the vanilla kernel only supports domU for i386, and has no dom0 support, so distros have to port the patches to their kernels (please correct me if I'm wrong). That is correct. The upstream -tip tree currently has some 64 bit domU patches queued (probably for 2.6.27). They are rather new and far reaching since they make some some nice infrastructure cleanups along the way etc. There's a rather slim chance they might make it in for Lenny but given their young age I'm not quite happy to say we could support a kernel with them for the lifetime of Lenny. dom0 support is being worked on by Fedora people (I think) but there are no patches upstream yet. However: - etch shipped with dom0 and domU kernels on i386 and amd64 - all major distros shipped with full Xen support FWIW fc9 didn't ship with dom0 support -- that is targeted for fc10. For now I think they recommend you stick with fc8 for dom0. I think we will be in a similar situation -- recommending sticking with Etch for dom0 (or at least the Etch kernel, which I run on sid for my Xen uses just fine) is probably the best we can do at the moment. What are the plans for Xen for lenny? Is this situation likely to change before the release? Without a massive injection of manpower (Debian side or upstream) I don't see much changing. I've heard that maybe a Lenny + 1/2 kernel might be able to add the features (64bit + dom0) which are missed this time around if they are available upstream, but that isn't my call to make. Ian. -- Ian Campbell People usually get what's coming to them ... unless it's been mailed. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 09:53:25PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: AFAIK, the status of Xen in lenny is currently the following: - no dom0 kernel Yep. There are some preliminary patches but they break non-paravirt usage for now. - domU kernel only for i386 (no domU kernel for amd64) x86_64 is currently worked on, but the stuff in fedora 9 is rather unclean. However: - etch shipped with dom0 and domU kernels on i386 and amd64 Well, it ships a slightly broken variant. - all major distros shipped with full Xen support RHEL5/FC8 are 2.6.18 based and ships full support. SLES10 is 2.6.16 based and ships full support. FC9 is 2.6.24 based and ships only domU support. Anything else can be considered more or less broken. What are the plans for Xen for lenny? Is this situation likely to change before the release? It will ship the hypervisor and a domU kernel. For dom0 it will need either the etch or my own[1] kernel. This may be changed later if we can get a new kernel in the stable release. Bastian [1]: deb http://kernel-archive.buildserver.net/debian-kernel/waldi/xen-extra all main -- I have never understood the female capacity to avoid a direct answer to any question. -- Spock, This Side of Paradise, stardate 3417.3 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Ian Campbell schreef: On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 21:53 +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: Hi, AFAIK, the status of Xen in lenny is currently the following: - no dom0 kernel - domU kernel only for i386 (no domU kernel for amd64) I was told (I don't remember where) that this is because the vanilla kernel only supports domU for i386, and has no dom0 support, so distros have to port the patches to their kernels (please correct me if I'm wrong). That is correct. The upstream -tip tree currently has some 64 bit domU patches queued (probably for 2.6.27). They are rather new and far reaching since they make some some nice infrastructure cleanups along the way etc. There's a rather slim chance they might make it in for Lenny but given their young age I'm not quite happy to say we could support a kernel with them for the lifetime of Lenny. dom0 support is being worked on by Fedora people (I think) but there are no patches upstream yet. However: - etch shipped with dom0 and domU kernels on i386 and amd64 - all major distros shipped with full Xen support FWIW fc9 didn't ship with dom0 support -- that is targeted for fc10. For now I think they recommend you stick with fc8 for dom0. I think we will be in a similar situation -- recommending sticking with Etch for dom0 (or at least the Etch kernel, which I run on sid for my Xen uses just fine) is probably the best we can do at the moment. What are the plans for Xen for lenny? Is this situation likely to change before the release? Without a massive injection of manpower (Debian side or upstream) I don't see much changing. I've heard that maybe a Lenny + 1/2 kernel might be able to add the features (64bit + dom0) which are missed this time around if they are available upstream, but that isn't my call to make. Some Fedora-links about Xen: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvops http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2008-March/msg00013.html http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2008-March/thread.html http://git.et.redhat.com/?p=xen-pvops-64.git http://git.et.redhat.com/?p=linux-2.6-fedora-pvops.git;a=summary http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/rpms/kernel-xen-2.6/devel/ http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10/Schedule Eventually we could support the Etch-kernel in Lenny until there is another solution? Maybe we could make some publicity about this situation in Debian Project News. Maybe there is someone who can help. http://wiki.debian.org/ProjectNews/Issues/Current With regards, Paul van der Vlis. -- http://www.vandervlis.nl/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
Hi, On 11/07/08 at 11:24 +0200, Bastian Blank wrote: - all major distros shipped with full Xen support RHEL5/FC8 are 2.6.18 based and ships full support. SLES10 is 2.6.16 based and ships full support. FC9 is 2.6.24 based and ships only domU support. Anything else can be considered more or less broken. It seems that Ubuntu 8.04 shipped with a 2.6.24 domU. So Ubuntu is the only distro shipping a dom0 based on Linux 2.6.18? How did they achieve this? :-) What are the plans for Xen for lenny? Is this situation likely to change before the release? It will ship the hypervisor and a domU kernel. For dom0 it will need either the etch or my own[1] kernel. This may be changed later if we can get a new kernel in the stable release. The problem I see with that is that people will be left without a supported dom0 kernel at some point during the etch lifetime. Do we have a plan to address that? Shouldn't we make it clear that we will support the etch kernel until a lenny+1/2 kernel is available, for example? Also, can you use the Xen 3.2 features with the etch kernel, or are you somehow limited? Wouldn't it be a good idea to ship a linux 2.6.18 kernel in lenny, only for dom0, so it's clear that it is supported? Thank you, -- | Lucas Nussbaum | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/ | | jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG: 1024D/023B3F4F | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 12:18:51PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 11/07/08 at 11:24 +0200, Bastian Blank wrote: Anything else can be considered more or less broken. It seems that Ubuntu 8.04 shipped with a 2.6.24 domU. So Ubuntu is the only distro shipping a dom0 based on Linux 2.6.18? How did they achieve this? :-) FC8 ships a forward ported 2.6.22, Ubuntu 8.04 a forward ported 2.6.24. They pushed work into it and got something which works more or less good. The Ubuntu patch never worked for me. It will ship the hypervisor and a domU kernel. For dom0 it will need either the etch or my own[1] kernel. This may be changed later if we can get a new kernel in the stable release. The problem I see with that is that people will be left without a supported dom0 kernel at some point during the etch lifetime. Which is at least lenny + 1 year, which gives us some time. Do we have a plan to address that? Shouldn't we make it clear that we will support the etch kernel until a lenny+1/2 kernel is available, for example? -security is needed for this. Also, can you use the Xen 3.2 features with the etch kernel, or are you somehow limited? It does not support power management, but otherwise it works. Wouldn't it be a good idea to ship a linux 2.6.18 kernel in lenny, only for dom0, so it's clear that it is supported? This needs redefining of the rule that we don't longer want multiple kernels in a stable release. But should be possible if -release and -security don't veto it. Bastian -- Where there's no emotion, there's no motive for violence. -- Spock, Dagger of the Mind, stardate 2715.1 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
On 11/07/08 at 12:18 +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: Hi, On 11/07/08 at 11:24 +0200, Bastian Blank wrote: - all major distros shipped with full Xen support RHEL5/FC8 are 2.6.18 based and ships full support. SLES10 is 2.6.16 based and ships full support. FC9 is 2.6.24 based and ships only domU support. Anything else can be considered more or less broken. It seems that Ubuntu 8.04 shipped with a 2.6.24 domU. So Ubuntu is dom0 (well, they shipped with a 2.6.24 domU, but my question is about the dom0) the only distro shipping a dom0 based on Linux 2.6.18? How did they achieve this? :-) -- | Lucas Nussbaum | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/ | | jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG: 1024D/023B3F4F | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?
OoO Pendant le temps de midi du vendredi 11 juillet 2008, vers 12:18, Lucas Nussbaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] disait : The problem I see with that is that people will be left without a supported dom0 kernel at some point during the etch lifetime. Do we have a plan to address that? Shouldn't we make it clear that we will support the etch kernel until a lenny+1/2 kernel is available, for example? The problem also appears for vserver kernel. -- printk(VFS: Busy inodes after unmount. Self-destruct in 5 seconds. Have a nice day...\n); 2.3.99-pre8 /usr/src/linux/fs/super.c pgpActwGNs88S.pgp Description: PGP signature
