Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
On %M 0, Darren/Torin/Who Ever... wrote (that I had a broken mutt setup...) -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Manoj Srivastava, in an immanent manifestation of deity, wrote: That's a reason not to make it a binary. Even reading a config file would probably be too slow. Hmm. Maybe when I've got some time slices in my brain, I can work on this... Well, it's a simple enough little program that perhaps... Some sort of config file which could be used to generate a program? In the short term, perl, but perhaps C templates could be worked out. Maybe as a separate package - lessopen-c, depending on a c compiler? Dan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
Hi, Oh. Well, I have a local lessopen script that takes precedence over the /usr/bin things. I like seeing as much of the stuff as possible (like looking at tar files one can read the README file without having to untar and read and delete stuff later?) I do not think my particular lessopen is a godd default either; I woud like the default to be minimalistic with the least surprise principle (strings for a binarty is not least surprise) manoj -- Justice is incidental to law and order. Edgar Hoover Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E #!/bin/sh case $1 in *.tar.gz|*.tgz|*.tar.Z) tar tzvvf $1 zcat $1 ;; *.Z|*.gz) gunzip -c $1 ;; *.bz2) bunzip2 -ckd $1 ;; *.bz) bunzip -ckd $1 ;; *.tar) tar tvf $1 cat $1 ;; *.deb) echo $1:; dpkg --info $1; echo -e '\n*** Contents:'; dpkg-deb --contents $1 ;; *.zip|*.ZIP) if [ -x /usr/bin/unzip ]; then unzip -v $1; else echo No unzip available; fi ;; *.arj|*.ARJ) if [ -x /usr/bin/unarj ]; then unarj -v $1; else echo No unarj available; fi ;; *.gif|*.jpeg|*.jpg|*.pcd|*.png|*.tga|*.tiff|*.tif) if [ -x /usr/X11R6/bin/identify ]; then /usr/X11R6/bin/identify $1; else echo -e No identify available echo -e Install ImageMagick to browse images; fi ;; esac -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
Darren/Torin/Who Ever... wrote: I am bemoaning the fact that lesspipe is not directly usable by me anymore, since all the stuff got added to it. I'm open to suggestions on how to change it so that everybody is happy... What about an environment variable about what items to use/not-use. I think a config file would have too much overhead. Why? It is trivial to write a script for lessopen, and each user can have their own via their .profile. Users who want to find out how to make lesspipe do more can find resources to write their own at the same place where they WOULD have found the documentation on the environment vars. I use lesspipe for things such as .deb files, compressed manpages, etc. But I agree with manoj that a good compromise for the distribution would to have the default (/usr/bin) lessppe do very little. I think that the only universally-agreed-upon behavior for lesspipe is to run gzip -dc on a compresed file so that you can see the contents. This could then be the limit to the default lesspipe functionality. Carl -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] The sun's not eternal That's why there's the blues... -- Ginsburg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
Carl Mummert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But when you say, 'less binfile', what do you expect it to do? Pretty much the same thing view binfile does. Note also that the real problem lesspipe was designed for would be better addressed by a compressed file system. -- Raul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
Hi, Carl == Carl Mummert [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Carl Joey Hess wrote: I would also find it disorienting to less a binary executable and get a long list of identifiers. I _expect_ a screen full of garbage, and that /lib/ld-linux.so.2 in a particular position :-) Carl What would be the use of looking at a screen full of control Carl characters? I can see prepending the output of strings with Carl other useful stuff, though; Just because you do not see a need does not mean that there is no use for that feature. If you want to run strings on a binary, you know how to do so. From the principle of least surprise, I say leave the default alone (I hate how it does tar zvvft already; I used to be able to look at text files in a tar.gz archive without running through hoops. But no, the default could not be left well enough alone). manoj who is tired of progras who think they are more intelligent than the humans -- Percentage of Redbook readers who say they would rather have their genitals permanently numbed than go deaf: 70 Harper's Index Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Richard Braakman, in an immanent manifestation of deity, wrote: One reason I like less is that it's so fast. I sometimes use it on thousands of files at once. (For example, when searching a source package for uses of a particular identifier). I've been thinking about that. (When not mono-focused on this grant.) In slink, I'm thinking of re-writing lessopen in C so that it will be faster. Shell scripts are slow, so is starting up Perl a lot. Loading binaries is fast. This seems like a bad idea. strings is not the obvious information to provide about an executable. (Consider size, objdump, od, hexdump, et cetera). Okay. Sounds good to me. I wanted at least one objection though so that I wasn't just disregarding the user's request out of hand. Darren P.S. less is ready and waiting on master. The new Perl package on the other hand isn't but should be done this weekend if I can get this grant out of the way. - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.daft.com/~torin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Darren Stalder/2608 Second Ave, @282/Seattle, WA 98121-1212/USA/+1-800-921-4996 @ Sysadmin, webweaver, postmaster for hire. C/Perl/CGI programmer and tutor. @ @Make a little hot-tub in your soul. @ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface iQCVAwUBNT7yk44wrq++1Ls5AQHhLAQAnJ64sJZHowv/oQPQMWjFrJaGpivRFlAs ZYswO3REW0asoIgjWjYF6J7zYWddNJURXkYfKWpkbRXXgxfTpr36ocm083YyflKd hJB3R+ghegapnkrO81sPon9KUQpWdcNnC3Y6+vi5qyGUEyOyffr+Ts4xJZHdkYVw DgQbyaE6v5E= =qMOJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Carl Mummert, in an immanent manifestation of deity, wrote: useful information when you use it on different types of files-- gzip for gz files, tar -t for tar files, groff for manpages, etc... If I _wanted_ to look at the raw data of a gzipped file, I could do it. But how often Note that while I have control of lessopen, it will never, ever interpret any kind of text files such as manpages, html, etc. Darren - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.daft.com/~torin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Darren Stalder/2608 Second Ave, @282/Seattle, WA 98121-1212/USA/+1-800-921-4996 @ Sysadmin, webweaver, postmaster for hire. C/Perl/CGI programmer and tutor. @ @Make a little hot-tub in your soul. @ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface iQCVAwUBNT70U44wrq++1Ls5AQFuPwP/bvZW58h2v3lvn4oo2XX4FB/WqgNT8TCP lJDYRW3/RuBoaBzbjLo48thtfkUFhR9AFkSCYmOlaLX17Qascak3StlXEkOoA1ct 4XpZ23Wm0l+EGfo0Y/3Cmth9bRHyH/n/eHg0cRTF5tU8dPR+8ypFk0Ir8+QfSnkb pr1LPSdY86s= =X96m -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Manoj Srivastava, in an immanent manifestation of deity, wrote: know how to do so. From the principle of least surprise, I say leave the default alone (I hate how it does tar zvvft already; I used to be able to look at text files in a tar.gz archive without running through hoops. But no, the default could not be left well enough Uh, Manoj, if you don't want less to interpret things for, just don't use lessopen. If you still want to use it, you can just edit the lessopen script. That's a reason not to make it a binary. Even reading a config file would probably be too slow. Hmm. Maybe when I've got some time slices in my brain, I can work on this... Darren - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.daft.com/~torin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Darren Stalder/2608 Second Ave, @282/Seattle, WA 98121-1212/USA/+1-800-921-4996 @ Sysadmin, webweaver, postmaster for hire. C/Perl/CGI programmer and tutor. @ @Make a little hot-tub in your soul. @ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface iQCVAwUBNT71JI4wrq++1Ls5AQF1WgP+MYu/cH3z07gfURvmtmumdSEA88trdozX k2NjlydUvxlePS768g/M4Zhk3d94h/Rc9G53d4OiEOstTtrUtiiUVOyxSGHqyDe6 you7zjs/L0HHHavB1Qja0YAei6dOzTbCgswPyJyaIJS+pwd37/Bs/bOcLI5B6tOr kiBW/DoRGb0= =SmVS -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
Hi, Darren == Darren Stalder [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Darren Uh, Manoj, if you don't want less to interpret things for, Darren just don't use lessopen. If you still want to use it, you can Darren just edit the lessopen script. I know that. The accepted way of using less used to be to use a upstream filter. Right now, it is done like so: __ __ printenv | grep -i less PAGER=less -ciM LESSOPEN=|lessopen %s LESS=-ciMP?f%f :std in .?n?m(file %i of %m) ..?ltline %lt :byte %bB?s/%s ..?e(END) ?x- Next\: %x.:?pB%pB\%..%t LESSCHARSET=latin1 __ eval $(lesspipe) __ printenv | grep -i less PAGER=less -ciM LESSCLOSE=/usr/bin/lesspipe '%s' '%s' LESSOPEN=| /usr/bin/lesspipe '%s' LESS=-ciMP?f%f :std in .?n?m(file %i of %m) ..?ltline %lt :byte %bB?s/%s ..?e(END) ?x- Next\: %x.:?pB%pB\%..%t LESSCHARSET=latin1 __ See how the distribution now uses lesspipe? I am bemoaning the fact that lesspipe is not directly usable by me anymore, since all the stuff got added to it. manoj -- Aren't you glad you're not getting all the government you pay for now? Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
On Thu, Apr 23, 1998 at 12:49:43AM -0700, Darren/Torin/Who Ever... wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- This seems like a bad idea. strings is not the obvious information to provide about an executable. (Consider size, objdump, od, hexdump, et cetera). Okay. Sounds good to me. I wanted at least one objection though so that I wasn't just disregarding the user's request out of hand. Please collect flashy examples and provide them with the package, possibly with one line comments. Thsi would make life for newbies easier, for interested people it would be something to get starting with and all the prof's can improve it without caring about defaults ;) Thank you, Marcus -- Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.Debian GNU/Linuxfinger brinkmd@ Marcus Brinkmann http://www.debian.orgmaster.debian.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]for public PGP Key http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Marcus.Brinkmann/ PGP Key ID 36E7CD09 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
Richard Braakman wrote: I've added the if binary executable, use strings on it to lessopen. I could see marginal use for looking at the raw executable, so if anyone has any objections, speak up before Saturday Night (-0800Z) or file a bug against less and I'll take it out. (cc'ing debian-devel for a wider audience) This seems like a bad idea. strings is not the obvious information to provide about an executable. (Consider size, objdump, od, hexdump, et cetera). I only use strings when I pipe through grep. When I use less it's just as easy to search the file directly. I would also find it disorienting to less a binary executable and get a long list of identifiers. I _expect_ a screen full of garbage, and that /lib/ld-linux.so.2 in a particular position :-) Chiming in a little late -- I agree with Richard 100%. -- see shy jo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
Joey Hess wrote: This seems like a bad idea. strings is not the obvious information to provide about an executable. (Consider size, objdump, od, hexdump, et cetera). I only use strings when I pipe through grep. When I use less it's just as easy to search the file directly. I would also find it disorienting to less a binary executable and get a long list of identifiers. I _expect_ a screen full of garbage, and that /lib/ld-linux.so.2 in a particular position :-) What would be the use of looking at a screen full of control characters? I can see prepending the output of strings with other useful stuff, though; how about this: replace in lesspipe.sh if [ $FILE1 = Linux/i386 -o $FILE2 = Linux/i386 \ -o $FILE1 = ELF -o $FILE2 = ELF ]; then strings $1 fi ;; with: if [ $FILE1 = Linux/i386 -o $FILE2 = Linux/i386 \ -o $FILE1 = ELF -o $FILE2 = ELF ]; then file $1; echo -e \nsize:; size $1; echo -e \nldd:; ldd $1; echo -e \nstrings:; strings $1; fi ;; This produces, on my system, a very pretty screenful of useful info. After all, if I am just looking for instances of a var, I can use grep as mentioned above. But this set of commands gives me a lot of useful stuff with only command. Carl -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] The sun's not eternal That's why there's the blues... -- Ginsburg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
What would be the use of looking at a screen full of control characters? Because when I look at a binary with less, I *mean* to do that... usually to look for corruption (blocks of nulls) or things like *short* strings or strings not in the text section, that strings *won't find*. mentioned above. But this set of commands gives me a lot of useful stuff with only command. Sure -- but it should be a *different* command than less... Mostly I'm being lazy, of course - I haven't needed to know how to disable lesspipe for my own use; if this gets added, I will. Someone else may have to judge if this is a useful thing for naive users... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
What would be the use of looking at a screen full of control characters? Because when I look at a binary with less, I *mean* to do that... usually to look for corruption (blocks of nulls) or things like *short* strings or strings not in the text section, that strings *won't find*. No kidding. I do the same thing quite often myself, generally when I'm debugging a low-level tool. However, you can get around this, if lesspipe is `too smart', by simply doing `cat binary|less' instead of `less binary'. So I think the default should be to give some sort of useful display for a binary file, although a display from `strings' is not my idea of `useful'. OTOH, the output of `objdump' or `nm -s' might often be useful. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
On Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 01:17:27PM -0400, Ben Pfaff wrote: What would be the use of looking at a screen full of control characters? Because when I look at a binary with less, I *mean* to do that... usually to look for corruption (blocks of nulls) or things like *short* strings or strings not in the text section, that strings *won't find*. No kidding. I do the same thing quite often myself, generally when I'm debugging a low-level tool. However, you can get around this, if lesspipe is `too smart', by simply doing `cat binary|less' instead of `less binary'. One of the things I like about Linux, and Unix in general, is that it doesn't try to be smart where you don't expect it to. I think that if users want to see 'nm' or strings or whatever, they can do those things. nm binary | less, or whatever.. Let's leave the default alone:- Ciao, -- David Welton http://www.efn.org/~davidw Debian GNU/Linux - www.debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
David Welton wrote: One of the things I like about Linux, and Unix in general, is that it doesn't try to be smart where you don't expect it to. But when you say, 'less binfile', what do you expect it to do? I had thought that the idea of lesspipe is to have less give you more useful information when you use it on different types of files-- gzip for gz files, tar -t for tar files, groff for manpages, etc... If I _wanted_ to look at the raw data of a gzipped file, I could do it. But how often do I want to do that? Having less display a plethora of information about an executable ( file, size, ldd, strings, etc) seems to me to be more useful for everyday use than having less show me the raw data. If, as you say, the more common case is that you want to look at the raw data of an executable, then I withdraw my claim. However, I think that the majority of users would find well-readable information more useful. Carl -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] The sun's not eternal That's why there's the blues... -- Ginsburg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
On Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 04:15:51PM -0400, Carl Mummert wrote: David Welton wrote: One of the things I like about Linux, and Unix in general, is that it doesn't try to be smart where you don't expect it to. But when you say, 'less binfile', what do you expect it to do? Show me the contents of the file. If I want to interpret those contents before I see them, then I'll pipe them. If not, then I expect it to do little else. I had thought that the idea of lesspipe is to have less give you more useful information when you use it on different types of files-- gzip for gz files, tar -t for tar files, groff for manpages, etc... If I _wanted_ to look at the raw data of a gzipped file, I could do it. But how often do I want to do that? It sounds like a handy little program, maybe we should give it a different name, like 'nless' or something similiar. We already have a zless, so, why not build on that and just use a different name. Or is there something that I am missing because of my late entry into the discussion (sorry)? Thanks, -- David Welton http://www.efn.org/~davidw Debian GNU/Linux - www.debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
David Welton wrote: zless, so, why not build on that and just use a different name. Or is there something that I am missing because of my late entry into the discussion (sorry)? Background: when 'less' runs, it looks for an environment var called LESSOPEN If it finds one, it uses the value to spawn a process from which less will display the standard output. The usual usage of this is to automatically unzip .gz files, so you don't have to do so by hand. Another common use is to run tar -t on tar files so that you see the list of files inside, insead of contral characters The general question is, how much do we want this lessopen program to do? The specific queston is, what should it do with binaries? The old solution was to run strings on the binaries, which was less than acceptable. Several people rightly complained about that. The new question is, which is better: a lot of info about the binary file, or the contents? I have been convinced that there is some utility in looking at the raw files; I also see some utility in information about the files. However, since the lessopen program is only a shell script, I think the best solution may be to leave binaries alone and allow users to add entries for them if the users so wish. Carl -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] The sun's not eternal That's why there's the blues... -- Ginsburg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- I can't add the /proc entries since you don't know the full pathname of the file you are viewing. I could use `pwd` to find out what directory I'm in. If you'd like me to do that, just say so but it would involve another fork/exec for every file. (All the others are by file-type). I've added the if binary executable, use strings on it to lessopen. I could see marginal use for looking at the raw executable, so if anyone has any objections, speak up before Saturday Night (-0800Z) or file a bug against less and I'll take it out. (cc'ing debian-devel for a wider audience) Darren - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.daft.com/~torin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Darren Stalder/2608 Second Ave, @282/Seattle, WA 98121-1212/USA/+1-800-921-4996 @ Sysadmin, webweaver, postmaster for hire. C/Perl/CGI programmer and tutor. @ @Make a little hot-tub in your soul. @ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface iQCVAwUBNTcirI4wrq++1Ls5AQF/BgP/WNSbLqcCkY1iUV9pfRx0U1a1jPckL+bu XkC5RBBG4PTX6vtn+HvTt5tdU6U3tOsi8TEPJOgJZ+Z8hfa/amOJzHhOikzVyYtK AA+WZ0tDhpJZhPSMPXv2na0UGLgndpamJcM09s2wsz1CurjVrHsele4In0DsYZ4G 3k1fBIA0ZT0= =eDKJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: less: extra entries for lesspipe
Darren/Torin/Who Ever... wrote: I can't add the /proc entries since you don't know the full pathname of the file you are viewing. I could use `pwd` to find out what directory I'm in. If you'd like me to do that, just say so but it would involve another fork/exec for every file. (All the others are by file-type). One reason I like less is that it's so fast. I sometimes use it on thousands of files at once. (For example, when searching a source package for uses of a particular identifier). I've added the if binary executable, use strings on it to lessopen. I could see marginal use for looking at the raw executable, so if anyone has any objections, speak up before Saturday Night (-0800Z) or file a bug against less and I'll take it out. (cc'ing debian-devel for a wider audience) This seems like a bad idea. strings is not the obvious information to provide about an executable. (Consider size, objdump, od, hexdump, et cetera). I only use strings when I pipe through grep. When I use less it's just as easy to search the file directly. I would also find it disorienting to less a binary executable and get a long list of identifiers. I _expect_ a screen full of garbage, and that /lib/ld-linux.so.2 in a particular position :-) Richard Braakman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
