Re: Why Are Some Fonts So Bad ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 05 January 2004 06:06, Nick Boyce wrote: > One weird thing is that if I start a Konsole "Linux console" session, > then I always get this error : > Font '-misc-console-medium-r-normal--16-160-72-72-c-160-iso10646-1' > not found. > > Check README.linux.console for help > (this README file doesn't exist on my system). These are known problems for Woody - only they don't seem to be fixed :-( See this thread - - http://lists.debian.org/debian-kde/2003/debian-kde-200310/msg00489.html and these bug-reports - - http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=217047 - - http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=218035 I guess we'll have to wait untill the next major release... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/+a7Sgm/Kwh6ICoQRAsLEAKDLDvIXJ25alV3tUfMX/l4JyKJNBACgyDtI nF52BPMEH4AeTbRNzpG+t98= =bDYu -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Why Are Some Fonts So Bad ?
Nick Boyce wrote: On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 11:03:33 +0100, Gunter Ohrner wrote: By the way, *none* of the fonts in the screenshot is anti-aliased. Oh ... thanks .. really ? ... confused I am now. Anti-aliasing is definitely enabled in Kcontrol - see my screenshot of yes, you've enabled AA, but you also seem to be excluding the font range 8-15pt and your selected fonts lie in this range (10-12 pt). try adjusting "exclude range" to something like 6-9pt (or completely disable it). -- Frederik Dannemare
Re: Why Are Some Fonts So Bad ?
* Nick Boyce [Sun, 04 Jan 2004 03:32:19 +]: > I'm running KDE 3.1.4 with XFree86 4.1.0-16 on Woody, with anti-aliasing > switched on QT backport to woody is compiled without anti-aliasing (XFT support). * Nick Boyce [Mon, 05 Jan 2004 05:06:13 +]: > On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 11:03:33 +0100, Gunter Ohrner wrote: > >By the way, *none* of the fonts in the screenshot is anti-aliased. > Oh ... thanks .. really ? ... confused I am now. > Anti-aliasing is definitely enabled in Kcontrol - see my screenshot of > the relevant part of the Kcontrol dialog : > http://www.glimmer.demon.co.uk/kde/ctlcent-font-spec.png > Maybe it's lying to me :-( Well, you *have* the checkbox enabled, but antialiasing can never get to work because it's simply not available in your version of QT. IMO it all would be a little less confusing if KControl detected this and wouldn't let you choose anti-aliasing if it's not compiled in. * Nick Boyce [Mon, 05 Jan 2004 05:06:15 +]: > One weird thing is that if I start a Konsole "Linux console" session, > then I always get this error : > Font '-misc-console-medium-r-normal--16-160-72-72-c-160-iso10646-1' > not found. > I don't have the xfonts-konsole package installed, so maybe that's the > cause of this error. Definitely. That font belongs to that package. * Nick Boyce [Mon, 05 Jan 2004 05:06:14 +]: > On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 10:57:28 -0600, Bart Dorsey wrote: > >Also make sure you have fontconfig installed, > I don't have a fontconfig command ... isn't that a Sid feature ? (I'm > running Woody). FWIW, I don't have an fc-cache command either. It's on sid, correct. > > .. and finally , make sure you have > >anti aliasing turned on in the Kcontrol fonts dialog box. > Yep - I *do* have that switched on - see my screenshot of the relevant > part of the Kcontrol dialog, here : > http://www.glimmer.demon.co.uk/kde/ctlcent-font-spec.png > but as I commented earlier in this thread, maybe it's lying to me ... Explained. > >BTW, apt-get install ttf-bitstream-vera > >the font I'm using there is Bitstream Vera Sans. > Ok, thanks - I might try that - which font(s) do you have set to that > choice in the Kcontrol dialog ? > I confess - Linux font technology is dark magic as far as I'm > concerned - I haven't had the time to take the relevant degree in > Linux Font Physics ;-), and I wouldn't know a bitstream font from a ^^^ > bitmap font. I'm ok with monospaced vs proportional, and that's about ^^^ > it ... Don't get that confused here: Bitstream seems to be the Foundry of the font, not a type or anything else. type(Bitstream) == type(Adobe) != type(bitmap). -- Adeodato Simó (a.k.a. thibaut) EM: asp16 [ykwim] alu.ua.es | IM: my_dato [jabber.org] | PK: DA6AE621 Proper treatment will cure a cold in seven days, but left to itself, a cold will hang on for a week. -- Darrell Huff signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Why Are Some Fonts So Bad ?
It's fully legal to use them w/o Windows. You can also redistribute them provided you don't take them out of the self-extracting .exe files. On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 06:01:52 +, Nick Boyce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What's our collective belief about the legality of using the MS fonts if there is no copy of Windows installed on the system ? (Which is how I hope to end up ...) Much obliged. Nick Boyce Bristol, UK
Re: Why Are Some Fonts So Bad ?
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 00:37:39 -0500, Jonathan Nelson wrote (off-list): >On Monday January 05 2004 12:06 am, Nick Boyce wrote: >> Oh ... thanks .. really ? ... confused I am now. >> >> Anti-aliasing is definitely enabled in Kcontrol - see my screenshot of >> the relevant part of the Kcontrol dialog : >> http://www.glimmer.demon.co.uk/kde/ctlcent-font-spec.png >> >> Maybe it's lying to me :-( > >Well, the font you chose (Helvetica) ... I didn't choose it - that's how KDE came on a fresh install ... [Maybe I missed some HOWTO on setting up anti-aliasing properly - anyone got any pointers ?] > ... is a bitmapped font, so it can't be >Anti-aliased. You need to choose a scalable font first. You can find a lot >of font packages through `apt-cache search font`. Aha ! Thanks very much - that's very helpful information. I guess it's time that I get to grips with all this font stuff. >As mentioned below the vera series is pretty good, or you can install the >Microsoft fonts package for some (possibly) more familiar fonts. I'll try the Vera fonts, and maybe get that Konsole fonts pack as well. What's our collective belief about the legality of using the MS fonts if there is no copy of Windows installed on the system ? (Which is how I hope to end up ...) Much obliged. Nick Boyce Bristol, UK > Money isn't everything, but at least it keeps the kids in touch. :-) -- Stenderup's Law: The sooner you fall behind, the more time you will have to catch up.
Re: Why Are Some Fonts So Bad ?
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 12:47:50 +0100, Dominique Devriese wrote: >Nick Boyce writes: > >> I'm running KDE 3.1.4 with XFree86 4.1.0-16 on Woody, with >> anti-aliasing switched on, and although the desktop mostly looks >> pretty slick, there are still some *really* bad font renditions in >> some parts of some windows. > >If anyone knows of a way to fix this in the Debian KDE packages, I'd >be very interested to hear it. Also, does anyone have any idea how to >fix the font problems in konsole ( most of the fonts look ugly, the >"linux" and "unicode" fonts don't work, selecting a custom font brings >up very few fonts to choose from etc. ), please share it. Hmm .. my Konsole fonts look fine (really nice in fact) - I only use the "Linux" font though. One weird thing is that if I start a Konsole "Linux console" session, then I always get this error : Font '-misc-console-medium-r-normal--16-160-72-72-c-160-iso10646-1' not found. Check README.linux.console for help (this README file doesn't exist on my system). I just avoid this problem by always using a Konsole "Shell" session type instead (which doesn't produce the error). I don't have the xfonts-konsole package installed, so maybe that's the cause of this error. Cheers, Nick Boyce Bristol, UK -- " ...screams erupted at a Seattle hotel where Microsoft founder Bill Gates was addressing an education and technology conference. (...)" -- cnn.com, Reportage über das Erdbeben in Seattle
Re: Why Are Some Fonts So Bad ?
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 10:57:28 -0600, Bart Dorsey wrote: >On Saturday 03 January 2004 9:32 pm, Nick Boyce wrote: >> I'm running KDE 3.1.4 with XFree86 4.1.0-16 on Woody, with anti-aliasing >> switched on, and although the desktop mostly looks pretty slick, there >> are still some *really* bad font renditions in some parts of some >> windows. > >The lines do cause some distortion, but not as bad when Anti aliasing is >actually turned on. > >Make sure your card can do the RENDER extension (xdpinfo should list it) Ok - I checked, and RENDER is present. The full listing is at http://www.glimmer.demon.co.uk/kde/xdpyinfo.txt but the bit showing just the extensions present is : BIG-REQUESTS DOUBLE-BUFFER DPMS Extended-Visual-Information FontCache GLX LBX MIT-SCREEN-SAVER MIT-SHM MIT-SUNDRY-NONSTANDARD RECORD RENDER SECURITY SGI-GLX SHAPE SYNC TOG-CUP XC-APPGROUP XC-MISC XFree86-Bigfont XFree86-DGA XFree86-Misc XFree86-VidModeExtension XIE XInputExtension XKEYBOARD XTEST XVideo >Also make sure you have fontconfig installed, I don't have a fontconfig command ... isn't that a Sid feature ? (I'm running Woody). FWIW, I don't have an fc-cache command either. > .. and finally , make sure you have >anti aliasing turned on in the Kcontrol fonts dialog box. Yep - I *do* have that switched on - see my screenshot of the relevant part of the Kcontrol dialog, here : http://www.glimmer.demon.co.uk/kde/ctlcent-font-spec.png but as I commented earlier in this thread, maybe it's lying to me ... >Here's an example of what it SHOULD look like. > >http://thebucket.org/echo/kate-good-looking-fonts.png Thanks for that - your version certainly looks a lot better than mine. >BTW, apt-get install ttf-bitstream-vera > >the font I'm using there is Bitstream Vera Sans. Ok, thanks - I might try that - which font(s) do you have set to that choice in the Kcontrol dialog ? I confess - Linux font technology is dark magic as far as I'm concerned - I haven't had the time to take the relevant degree in Linux Font Physics ;-), and I wouldn't know a bitstream font from a bitmap font. I'm ok with monospaced vs proportional, and that's about it ... I only have the base Debian Xfree86 package fonts installed. I'm slightly wary of installing too many extra fonts for fear of the resulting system slowdown that people report from time to time. [Chris: I'm stunned & impressed that you have 1000 fonts installed - do you have some monster multi GHz CPU by any chance ?] Cheers, Nick Boyce -- Dinner is ready when the smoke alarm goes off.
Re: Why Are Some Fonts So Bad ?
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 11:03:33 +0100, Gunter Ohrner wrote:
>By the way, *none* of the fonts in the screenshot is anti-aliased.
Oh ... thanks .. really ? ... confused I am now.
Anti-aliasing is definitely enabled in Kcontrol - see my screenshot of
the relevant part of the Kcontrol dialog :
http://www.glimmer.demon.co.uk/kde/ctlcent-font-spec.png
Maybe it's lying to me :-(
I did wonder about the smaller fonts in that screenshot - they look
clean enough, but maybe in that particular size range they work well
anyway.
My investigation continues (my next message in this thread).
Thanks for your information.
Nick Boyce
Bristol, UK
--
/* Nobody will ever see this error message :-) */
panic("Cannot initialize video hardware\n");
-- Linux 2.0.38, arch/m68k/atari/atafb.c
Re: Why Are Some Fonts So Bad ?
Chris Cheney writes: > 1. Setup fontconfig properly (enable bitmap fonts) > 2. Install xfonts-konsole > 3. Run fc-cache -f > 4. Restart KDE OK, thanks to all who replied. I first thought it might have been a problem in the KDE packages, but apparently not. My konsole looks a lot better now though :) cheers domi
Re: Why Are Some Fonts So Bad ?
A good terminal font to use is Bitstream Mono or Andale Mono. The former can be obtained through the Debian archive while the latter can be obtained by searching for andale.ttf in your favourite search engine. On Sunday 04 January 2004 02:19 pm, Chris Cheney wrote: > On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 12:47:50PM +0100, Dominique Devriese wrote: > > If anyone knows of a way to fix this in the Debian KDE packages, I'd > > be very interested to hear it. Also, does anyone have any idea how to > > fix the font problems in konsole ( most of the fonts look ugly, the > > "linux" and "unicode" fonts don't work, selecting a custom font brings > > up very few fonts to choose from etc. ), please share it. > > For konsole you need to: > > 1. Setup fontconfig properly (enable bitmap fonts) > 2. Install xfonts-konsole > 3. Run fc-cache -f > 4. Restart KDE > > I'm not sure what the "Unicode" font is supposed to do but selecting it > does change my font here. Konsole only can use monospace fonts which > there aren't many of, so you may have to get fonts on your own for the > Custom selection to show many. I have a lot of windows fonts so I see 19 > fonts in Konsole's Custom box. Note that I have over 1000 fonts total > (about 650 of them are windows fonts), so not very many work with konsole. > > Chris
Re: Why Are Some Fonts So Bad ?
On Sunday 04 of January 2004 06:47, Dominique Devriese wrote: > If anyone knows of a way to fix this in the Debian KDE > packages, I'd be very interested to hear it. Also, does anyone > have any idea how to fix the font problems in konsole ( most of > the fonts look ugly, the "linux" and "unicode" fonts don't > work, selecting a custom font brings up very few fonts to > choose from etc. ), please share it. I am not sure about 3.2 (still using 3.1.4), but the problem lies IMHO in the fact, that non-proportional fonts are so bad when anti-aliased. Therefore, in 2.* (whatever is default in Debian/woody) of KDE, I had to run konsole with --noxft so that I have only NON-AA-fonts so I could use normal X bitmapped fonts, which look much better. Apparently in 3.1.4 --noxft is default (and I am glad for it). I have now Fixed [Misc] and it looks reasonably well. Yes, standard Linux/Unicode/etc. fonts are horrible. Matej -- Matej Cepl, http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC 138 Highland Ave. #10, Somerville, Ma 02143, (617) 623-1488 How many Bavarian Illuminati does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Three: one to screw it in, and one to confuse the issue. pgpeIz4JY35rO.pgp Description: signature
Re: Why Are Some Fonts So Bad ?
On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 12:47:50PM +0100, Dominique Devriese wrote: > If anyone knows of a way to fix this in the Debian KDE packages, I'd > be very interested to hear it. Also, does anyone have any idea how to > fix the font problems in konsole ( most of the fonts look ugly, the > "linux" and "unicode" fonts don't work, selecting a custom font brings > up very few fonts to choose from etc. ), please share it. For konsole you need to: 1. Setup fontconfig properly (enable bitmap fonts) 2. Install xfonts-konsole 3. Run fc-cache -f 4. Restart KDE I'm not sure what the "Unicode" font is supposed to do but selecting it does change my font here. Konsole only can use monospace fonts which there aren't many of, so you may have to get fonts on your own for the Custom selection to show many. I have a lot of windows fonts so I see 19 fonts in Konsole's Custom box. Note that I have over 1000 fonts total (about 650 of them are windows fonts), so not very many work with konsole. Chris signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Why Are Some Fonts So Bad ?
On Saturday 03 January 2004 9:32 pm, Nick Boyce wrote: > I'm running KDE 3.1.4 with XFree86 4.1.0-16 on Woody, with anti-aliasing > switched on, and although the desktop mostly looks pretty slick, there > are still some *really* bad font renditions in some parts of some > windows. The lines do cause some distortion, but not as bad when Anti aliasing is actually turned on. Make sure your card can do the RENDER extension (xdpinfo should list it) Also make sure you have fontconfig installed, and finally , make sure you have anti aliasing turned on in the Kcontrol fonts dialog box. Here's an example of what it SHOULD look like. http://thebucket.org/echo/kate-good-looking-fonts.png BTW, apt-get install ttf-bitstream-vera the font I'm using there is Bitstream Vera Sans. > > For instance, the font used for the words "Did you know ?" in the "Tip > Of The Day" dialogs offered by both Konsole and Kate is *awful* - it > looks a mess ... utterly uneven and broken. > > I've put a screen-capture of the Kate Tip-Of-The-Day dialog on my > website, at http://www.glimmer.demon.co.uk/kde/kate-lousy-font.png if > anyone feels like having a look. > > Can anyone hazard a possible explanation for this ? > Does anyone else see anything better looking in this dialog on their own > machines ? > > (I use a Voodoo 3 graphics card, in case that's relevant, and the 3Dfx > Voodoo 3 driver is selected in KXconfig). > > Cheers, > Nick Boyce > Bristol, UK pgpiht3n12BOh.pgp Description: signature
Re: Why Are Some Fonts So Bad ?
* Dominique Devriese [Sun, 04 Jan 2004 12:47:50 +0100]: > Also, does anyone have any idea how to > fix the font problems in konsole ( most of the fonts look ugly, the > "linux" and "unicode" fonts don't work, selecting a custom font brings > up very few fonts to choose from etc. ), please share it. (I suppose you refer to sid KDE packages, right?) First of all, for a quick fix, take a look at #214150. AIUI, there are at least two issues involved here: a) whether anti-aliasing is on in Qt (via KDE Control Centre) b) whether fontconfig is configured to provide bitmap fonts By default, fontconfig does not provide bitmap fonts (I think so); that's the reason behind custom font menu brings up "very few fonts to choose from": only brings up outline fonts. Moreover, those outline fonts look damn ugly if Qt is not using antialiasing, which is the default setting. So, if you get fontconfig to provide bitmap fonts too, those get avaliable to Qt and there are plenty of other fonts to choose from (including "linux" font, whose realname is console --and which is in package xfonts-konsole--). If antialiasing is on, outline fonts look best (and bitmap fonts continue to show nice, too). I would suggest to turn on KDE antialiasing by default and (perhaps) to get "linux" konsole font to a directory which always got read by fontconfig (e.g. /usr/share/fonts, but I am aware that this may be not possible). Please contact me if you think I may have some more info about this. Cheers. -- Adeodato Simó (a.k.a. thibaut) EM: asp16 [ykwim] alu.ua.es | IM: my_dato [jabber.org] | PK: DA6AE621 The greatest productive force is human selfishness. -- Robert Heinlein signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Why Are Some Fonts So Bad ?
Nick Boyce writes: > I'm running KDE 3.1.4 with XFree86 4.1.0-16 on Woody, with > anti-aliasing switched on, and although the desktop mostly looks > pretty slick, there are still some *really* bad font renditions in > some parts of some windows. > For instance, the font used for the words "Did you know ?" in the > "Tip Of The Day" dialogs offered by both Konsole and Kate is *awful* > - it looks a mess ... utterly uneven and broken. > I've put a screen-capture of the Kate Tip-Of-The-Day dialog on my > website, at http://www.glimmer.demon.co.uk/kde/kate-lousy-font.png > if anyone feels like having a look. > Can anyone hazard a possible explanation for this ? Does anyone > else see anything better looking in this dialog on their own > machines ? If anyone knows of a way to fix this in the Debian KDE packages, I'd be very interested to hear it. Also, does anyone have any idea how to fix the font problems in konsole ( most of the fonts look ugly, the "linux" and "unicode" fonts don't work, selecting a custom font brings up very few fonts to choose from etc. ), please share it. cheers domi
Re: Why Are Some Fonts So Bad ?
Nick Boyce wrote: > For instance, the font used for the words "Did you know ?" in the "Tip > Of The Day" dialogs offered by both Konsole and Kate is *awful* - it > looks a mess ... utterly uneven and broken. The might to a large degree be caused by the gray and white stripes in the background. At least the "edges" in the small round letters like "o" are optical artifacts from the interaction between font and background and are not caused by the font itself as far as I can see. By the way, *none* of the fonts in the screenshot is anti-aliased. Greetings, Gunter -- No matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.-- (Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man) *** PGP-Verschlüsselung bei eMails erwünscht :-) *** PGP: 0x1128F25F ***
