Re: Searching for specific Debian logo

[tomas]

On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 03:54:45AM -0400, Alex Taylor wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am searching for this specific Debian icon 
> 
> featured on the taskbar in qvwm , an old
> window manager originally released in 1996. Is there an archive of old
> Debian graphics where I might find this? It is similar to favicon on the
> Debian website and appears thicker than the icons packaged with my install
> of 12 bookworm.

Have you had a look at the archives ?

Cheers
-- 
t


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Searching for specific Debian logo

[Alex Taylor]

Hello,

I am searching for this specific Debian icon 
 
featured on the taskbar in qvwm , an 
old window manager originally released in 1996. Is there an archive of 
old Debian graphics where I might find this? It is similar to favicon on 
the Debian website and appears thicker than the icons packaged with my 
install of 12 bookworm.


I am also interested in older Debian-released wallpapers (such as bitmap 
tiled wallpapers) from very early releases.


Thank you,

Alex

Re: Debian logo

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Fri, Nov 05, 2021 at 04:40:07PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 05, 2021 at 11:03:08AM -0400, Joshua Allen wrote:
> > Dear debian,
> > I was wondering if the logo was inspired by bdale garbee's tie dye shirt?
> > 
> > Thanks
> > Josh
> 
> It was subject to a Debian vote in 1999 - https://wiki.debian.org/DebianLogo
> 
> "The chicken" was used for a period before that.
> 
> The version with the bottle appears to have been more or less unused - the 
> Open Use logo - and almost everyone has used the Debian Official logo - the
> swirl.

Well, no, the swirl is the Open Use logo, and the bottle is the Official
logo -- see https://www.debian.org/vote/1999/vote_0005

-- 
 w@uter.{be,co.za}
wouter@{grep.be,fosdem.org,debian.org}

Re: Debian logo

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Andrew M.A. Cater (2021-11-05 17:40:07)
> On Fri, Nov 05, 2021 at 11:03:08AM -0400, Joshua Allen wrote:
> > I was wondering if the logo was inspired by bdale garbee's tie dye 
> > shirt?
> It was subject to a Debian vote in 1999 - 
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianLogo
> 
> "The chicken" was used for a period before that.
> 
> The version with the bottle appears to have been more or less unused - 
> the Open Use logo - and almost everyone has used the Debian Official 
> logo - the swirl.
> 
> The swirl is also very close to one of the demo outlines in a 
> commercial graphics application - I forget which.

Adobe Illustrator.  And not a demo thing but the default settings for an 
built-in drawing effect.


 -  Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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Re: Debian logo

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Nov 05, 2021 at 11:03:08AM -0400, Joshua Allen wrote:
> Dear debian,
> I was wondering if the logo was inspired by bdale garbee's tie dye shirt?
> 
> Thanks
> Josh

It was subject to a Debian vote in 1999 - https://wiki.debian.org/DebianLogo

"The chicken" was used for a period before that.

The version with the bottle appears to have been more or less unused - the 
Open Use logo - and almost everyone has used the Debian Official logo - the
swirl.

The swirl is also very close to one of the demo outlines in a commercial
graphics application - I forget which.

All the very best, as ever

Andy Cater

Debian logo

[Joshua Allen]

Dear debian,
I was wondering if the logo was inspired by bdale garbee's tie dye shirt?

Thanks
Josh

Re: Possible Two Color Debian Logo White Vinyl Sticker Group Buy

[Gunnar Wolf]

Steve Langasek dijo [Tue, May 06, 2014 at 01:36:00PM -0700]:
 What would really be nice would be if someone would make another run of the
 shaped swirl vinyl stickers.  I think I last saw these for sale back in
 ~2006, and I've gone through enough hardware since then that my current
 laptop is bare. :(  Any chance of someone making some of these, rather than
 just the square white ones?

Gaby, our historic DebConf shirts provider, also has a vinil cutting
machine. I am sure she can add some stickers to the DebConf14 shirts,
with whatever design you fancy and she can get them to you at a very
good price. Ask her :)


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Re: [Debconf-discuss] Possible Two Color Debian Logo White Vinyl Sticker Group Buy

[Bdale Garbee]

Bdale Garbee bd...@gag.com writes:

 Don Armstrong d...@debian.org writes:

 I think these are going to be closer to US$5-10 per for larger ones, but
 I'm interested in getting a few of them myself.

 I work with a US supplier of cut vinyl decals for the Altus Metrum logo,
 I'll ask him for a quote on plain swirls in a size or two. 

I got a *great* quote on 2, 3, and 4 inch height versions from my guy
for cutting swirls in single-color vinyl.  

Do those sizes seem good?

Bdale


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Re: [Debconf-discuss] Possible Two Color Debian Logo White Vinyl Sticker Group Buy

[Don Armstrong]

On Wed, 07 May 2014, Bdale Garbee wrote:
 Bdale Garbee bd...@gag.com writes:
  Don Armstrong d...@debian.org writes:
 
  I think these are going to be closer to US$5-10 per for larger ones, but
  I'm interested in getting a few of them myself.
 
  I work with a US supplier of cut vinyl decals for the Altus Metrum logo,
  I'll ask him for a quote on plain swirls in a size or two. 
 
 I got a *great* quote on 2, 3, and 4 inch height versions from my guy
 for cutting swirls in single-color vinyl.  
 
 Do those sizes seem good?

That seems good to me. Bonus if we can also get the i dot and debian
text too. [Perhaps in black or white? Dunno.]

-- 
Don Armstrong  http://www.donarmstrong.com

Leukocyte... I am your father.
 -- R. Stevens http://www.dieselsweeties.com/archive.php?s=1546


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Re: [Debconf-discuss] Possible Two Color Debian Logo White Vinyl Sticker Group Buy

[Paul R. Tagliamonte]

I think Debian FR made a bunch -
http://www.enventelibre.org/documents/autocollant-debian

8 cm x 10 cm. - 4 x 4. They're prefect for the back of a thinkpad.


On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Bdale Garbee bd...@gag.com wrote:
 Bdale Garbee bd...@gag.com writes:

 Don Armstrong d...@debian.org writes:

 I think these are going to be closer to US$5-10 per for larger ones, but
 I'm interested in getting a few of them myself.

 I work with a US supplier of cut vinyl decals for the Altus Metrum logo,
 I'll ask him for a quote on plain swirls in a size or two.

 I got a *great* quote on 2, 3, and 4 inch height versions from my guy
 for cutting swirls in single-color vinyl.

 Do those sizes seem good?

 Bdale



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Re: [Debconf-discuss] Possible Two Color Debian Logo White Vinyl Sticker Group Buy

[Bdale Garbee]

Paul R. Tagliamonte paul...@gmail.com writes:

 I think Debian FR made a bunch -
 http://www.enventelibre.org/documents/autocollant-debian

 8 cm x 10 cm. - 4 x 4. They're prefect for the back of a thinkpad.

Looks like the one on my notebook is actually about 4.5 tall .. I don't
remember where it came from, I've bought them at various times from
different people on different continents.  ;-)

Bdale


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Possible Two Color Debian Logo White Vinyl Sticker Group Buy

[Don Armstrong]

I'm considering coordinating a group buy of two color, 54mm x 70mm white
vinyl stickers with the Debian Open Logo[logo], and distributing them to
other group purchasers at Debconf14.

Minimum quantities of 2000 (US$250) are required from the printer which
I've found,[printer] which comes to $0.125 per sticker. I'm personally
willing to take 500 of them, but I'd like to have enough other parties
to take the additional stickers.

Please either reply or indicate on the wiki page[wiki] if you are
interested with the quantity that you are interested in. I'm also
willing to consider larger sizes, shapes, or different printers, too.
[If you are not going to be at Debconf14, but are in the US and want
enough stickers to justify my time (and your money) sending them to you,
I'm willing to consider that too.]

[logo]: https://www.debian.org/logos/openlogo-100.png
[printer]: https://stickerguy.com/images/stickerguy_bulk-pricing.pdf
[wiki]: https://wiki.debian.org/Merchandise/Stickers
-- 
Don Armstrong  http://www.donarmstrong.com

Three little words. (In order of importance.)
 █ 
   █  ▌  ▞▀▖▌ ▌▛▀▘
   █  ▌  ▌ ▌▝▞ ▛▀  you 
   █  ▀▀▘▝▀  ▘ ▀▀▘
 █  -- hugh macleod Three Words


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Re: Possible Two Color Debian Logo White Vinyl Sticker Group Buy

[Steve Langasek]

On Tue, May 06, 2014 at 12:40:24PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
 I'm considering coordinating a group buy of two color, 54mm x 70mm white
 vinyl stickers with the Debian Open Logo[logo], and distributing them to
 other group purchasers at Debconf14.

 Minimum quantities of 2000 (US$250) are required from the printer which
 I've found,[printer] which comes to $0.125 per sticker. I'm personally
 willing to take 500 of them, but I'd like to have enough other parties
 to take the additional stickers.

 Please either reply or indicate on the wiki page[wiki] if you are
 interested with the quantity that you are interested in. I'm also
 willing to consider larger sizes, shapes, or different printers, too.
 [If you are not going to be at Debconf14, but are in the US and want
 enough stickers to justify my time (and your money) sending them to you,
 I'm willing to consider that too.]

What would really be nice would be if someone would make another run of the
shaped swirl vinyl stickers.  I think I last saw these for sale back in
~2006, and I've gone through enough hardware since then that my current
laptop is bare. :(  Any chance of someone making some of these, rather than
just the square white ones?

Thanks,
-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org


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Re: Possible Two Color Debian Logo White Vinyl Sticker Group Buy

[Don Armstrong]

On Tue, 06 May 2014, Steve Langasek wrote:
 What would really be nice would be if someone would make another run
 of the shaped swirl vinyl stickers. I think I last saw these for sale
 back in ~2006, and I've gone through enough hardware since then that
 my current laptop is bare. :( Any chance of someone making some of
 these, rather than just the square white ones?

You mean these ones, right? 

http://debian.ch/merchandise/

I think these are going to be closer to US$5-10 per for larger ones, but
I'm interested in getting a few of them myself.

-- 
Don Armstrong  http://www.donarmstrong.com

It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men.
 -- Frederick Douglass


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Re: Possible Two Color Debian Logo White Vinyl Sticker Group Buy

[Holger Levsen]

Hi,

On Dienstag, 6. Mai 2014, Steve Langasek wrote:
 What would really be nice would be if someone would make another run of the
 shaped swirl vinyl stickers.  I think I last saw these for sale back in
 ~2006, and I've gone through enough hardware since then that my current
 laptop is bare. :(  Any chance of someone making some of these, rather than
 just the square white ones?

if you mean those foil stickers, I have quite plenty of regular Debian, 
Debian women and Debian bsd ones, in three different sizes... I guess I'll 
bring or ship them to the DebConf14...


cheers,
Holger




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Re: Possible Two Color Debian Logo White Vinyl Sticker Group Buy

[Steve Langasek]

On Tue, May 06, 2014 at 02:18:40PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
 On Tue, 06 May 2014, Steve Langasek wrote:
  What would really be nice would be if someone would make another run
  of the shaped swirl vinyl stickers. I think I last saw these for sale
  back in ~2006, and I've gone through enough hardware since then that
  my current laptop is bare. :( Any chance of someone making some of
  these, rather than just the square white ones?

 You mean these ones, right? 

 http://debian.ch/merchandise/

 I think these are going to be closer to US$5-10 per for larger ones, but
 I'm interested in getting a few of them myself.

On Tue, May 06, 2014 at 11:20:32PM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote:
 On Dienstag, 6. Mai 2014, Steve Langasek wrote:
  What would really be nice would be if someone would make another run of the
  shaped swirl vinyl stickers.  I think I last saw these for sale back in
  ~2006, and I've gone through enough hardware since then that my current
  laptop is bare. :(  Any chance of someone making some of these, rather than
  just the square white ones?

 if you mean those foil stickers, I have quite plenty of regular Debian, 
 Debian women and Debian bsd ones, in three different sizes... I guess I'll 
 bring or ship them to the DebConf14...

Ah, those are the ones!  Didn't know they were still around - I'll
definitely by some if they show up at DebConf :)

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org


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Re: Answers to questions raised about registering the Debian Logo as our trademark

[Richard Hartmann]

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 6:38 AM, Brian Gupta brian.gu...@brandorr.com wrote:

 4) What is the impact of registering in the US only?
 A: We would still only have Common law protection in those countries
 we don't register the logo. We'd gain no benefit in those
 jurisdictions, but it wouldn't hurt us either. However, being that
 getting a registration in the US is a prerequisite for applying for
 international registration, this is largely an academic distinction.

As an additional data point, all the modified logos and other weird
uses that are currently logged have been outside the US.


Richard


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Re: Answers to questions raised about registering the Debian Logo as our trademark

[Lucas Nussbaum]

Hi,

On 12/06/13 at 11:49 +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
 Brian Gupta brian.gu...@brandorr.com
  I finally had a chance to discuss with our legal counsel, and have
  some answers to the questions raised in the discussion.
 
 Thanks for this.  It covers all I remember.  One small question:

Yes, thanks a lot.

  3) Should we register in the US only or register internationally?
  A: Being as US registration is mandatory to extend internationally
  start with the US, and then later Debian can make a decision on
  international registration.
 
 What's the source on that?  I thought I'd seen trademarks start in
 other places and then extend internationally.

As Gunnar pointed out, yes, we could start elsewhere and then extend to
other countries. However, given SFLC is going to help us through the
process, and SPI will involved too as the trademark holder, it just
sounds easier to start with a US registration.

We can discuss extension to other countries later, when we will have
made sufficient progress on the US registration.

 I still feel that this seems like a waste of project money (are many
 infringers in the US anyway?) and potentially a blank cheque ($3347
 plus maintenance and costs of enforcement necessary to prevent it
 becoming generic), but I'd prefer those who are based and trading
 significantly with the debian logo in the US to make the decision.

Not doing it would mean going against our legal counsel, and also being
the only major project deciding not to register its logo. Also,
affording this is not a problem, and is unlikely to be even in the more
distant future.

Dear trademark team[1], could you please work with SFLC and SPI to
register our logo as a US trademark?

[1] yes, this is still to be announced, but we have a real trademark
team now, as Joe Healy and Richard Hartmann volunteered to join Brian
Gupta, following the call for help in the last d-d-a bits.

Thanks,

Lucas


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Re: Answers to questions raised about registering the Debian Logo as our trademark

[MJ Ray]

Brian Gupta brian.gu...@brandorr.com
 I finally had a chance to discuss with our legal counsel, and have
 some answers to the questions raised in the discussion.

Thanks for this.  It covers all I remember.  One small question:

 3) Should we register in the US only or register internationally?
 A: Being as US registration is mandatory to extend internationally
 start with the US, and then later Debian can make a decision on
 international registration.

What's the source on that?  I thought I'd seen trademarks start in
other places and then extend internationally.

 4) What is the impact of registering in the US only?
 A: We would still only have Common law protection in those countries
 we don't register the logo. We'd gain no benefit in those
 jurisdictions, but it wouldn't hurt us either. [...]

Well, I've few US customers buying debian, it would probably be
allowed as honest description, and I'm not in the US anyway, so I
think I don't care too much about the US registration.

I still feel that this seems like a waste of project money (are many
infringers in the US anyway?) and potentially a blank cheque ($3347
plus maintenance and costs of enforcement necessary to prevent it
becoming generic), but I'd prefer those who are based and trading
significantly with the debian logo in the US to make the decision.

Shall I poll http://www.debian.org/consultants/#US or has someone?

Hope that explains,

-- 
MJ Ray, Software Engineering Specialist, www.software.coop member.
Emails 2x most days: please use i...@software.coop for faster answer.
Turo Technology LLP, reg'd in England+Wales, number OC303457
Registered Office: 384 Lynn Road, Setchey, Norfolk GB-PE33 0PD


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Re: Answers to questions raised about registering the Debian Logo as our trademark

[Gunnar Wolf]

MJ Ray dijo [Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:49:09AM +0100]:
  I finally had a chance to discuss with our legal counsel, and have
  some answers to the questions raised in the discussion.
 
 Thanks for this.  It covers all I remember.  One small question:
 
  3) Should we register in the US only or register internationally?
  A: Being as US registration is mandatory to extend internationally
  start with the US, and then later Debian can make a decision on
  international registration.
 
 What's the source on that?  I thought I'd seen trademarks start in
 other places and then extend internationally.

From an online intellectual property course I took with WIPO
(translated from Spanish by me, so probably plagued by errors):

How is a trademark registered?

First of all, a registration request must be presented at the
corresponding national or regional trademark office. The request
must be filed together with a clear reproduction of the symbol(s)
to be registered, indicating colors, shapes or 3D
characteristics. The request must state also the list of products
or services that the symbol is intended to be applied to
(...)
What reach does the trademark protection have?

Practically all countries in the world register and protect
trademarks. National and regional offices maintain a Trademark
Registry where all the registration request's data are held,
facilitating the examination, search and eventual opposition
processes. Now, the effects for this registration are limited to
the country (or in the case of the regional registration,
countries) it deals with.

In order to avoid the need of registering on each national or
regional office, WIPO administers an international trademark
registration system. This system is based on two treaties, the
Madrid arrangement relative to the International Trademark
Registration, and the Madrid Protocol. People with relation (due
to nationality, residence or establishment) with a member State in
one or both of those instruments can, on thebase of a request on
this country's trademark office, obtain an international
registration effective in all or some of the Madrid Union
countries.

The key is in the last lines: The procedure to obtain an international
registration requires to reference the request for a national
registration as a first step.

I could not find it on my notes, but I am almost sure we were
mentioned a minimum time for a trademark to exist nationally before it
could be granted internationally.

 I still feel that this seems like a waste of project money (are many
 infringers in the US anyway?) and potentially a blank cheque ($3347
 plus maintenance and costs of enforcement necessary to prevent it
 becoming generic), but I'd prefer those who are based and trading
 significantly with the debian logo in the US to make the decision.

There is the precedent of the Linux trademark, which was obtained in
1997. For further details, please check:

  http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/2559


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Answers to questions raised about registering the Debian Logo as our trademark

[Brian Gupta]

I finally had a chance to discuss with our legal counsel, and have
some answers to the questions raised in the discussion.

The summary of the QA is (from list and some of my own):

1) Does registering logo require any changes to TM policy?
A: No changes required

2) What are the costs to register in the US and internationally using
the Madrid Protocol?
A: ~$275 for US only, ~$3347 for the probable international
registrations we'd want.

3) Should we register in the US only or register internationally?
A: Being as US registration is mandatory to extend internationally
start with the US, and then later Debian can make a decision on
international registration.

4) What is the impact of registering in the US only?
A: We would still only have Common law protection in those countries
we don't register the logo. We'd gain no benefit in those
jurisdictions, but it wouldn't hurt us either. However, being that
getting a registration in the US is a prerequisite for applying for
international registration, this is largely an academic distinction.

5) Can overzealous law enforcement officers act against infringers
without our permission?
A: Not in the US. Outside the US requires further research.

6) Can we have logo protected under copyright law and trademark law,
and have differing licenses?
A: Yes, other Free Software projects do this.

7) Is the logo too simple to register?
A: No

8) How long would it take to register?
A: The process can take as long as 6 months.

Summary: Our counsel recommends that we move forward with a US-only
registration for now, and keep the option open to extend to a Madrid
Protocol registration once we complete the US registration. I concur
with this recommendation, and if there are no further questions or
objections, I plan to talk to leader@ about proceeding with this
registration.

Thanks,
Brian


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Re: Registering the Debian Logo as our trademark?

[Charles Plessy]

Le Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 07:51:06AM +0900, Charles Plessy a écrit :
 Le Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 04:04:34PM -0400, Brian Gupta a écrit :
  
  Cons:
  -
  - Filing costs of ~$700
  - Labor/work required to file (With assistance from SFLC, I am willing
  to do much of the work required.)
 
 I wonder how will be the cost of a registered trademark on the mid term, for
 instance 5 or 10 years.  Will it trigger more payments to other offices,
 similarly to our effort of maintaining debian domain names in multiple
 top-level domains ?  Is the payment to be renewed periodically ?  In parallel,
 since the assistance of SFLC is a resource that we can not expand nor buy with
 money, will the possession of a registration trademark take a significant 
 share
 of the assistance we can receive ?

Hi Brian,

as suggested by Lucas on debian-devel-announce, before Debian proceeds with
formally registering its logo, I would like to ask again a clarification on
the strategy for the registration.

A simulation on http://www.wipo.int indicates that registering in all possible
countries would cost 60,425 Swiss francs (~65,000 US dollars).  For the renwal,
I figured out that it is once every 10 years in each countries that I
checked.

So the upper bound for the annual cost would still be in the order of thousands
of dollars.

The lower bound would be to register in a single country, with a cost of less
of a hundred dollars per year.

I would like to know what is the strategy that is taken (is the registration in
the USA the starting point, or is it the only country that we aim), and what is
the expected effect (if there is a hostile company or group that is determined
to use our image and reputation where we fail to protect it adequately, how
effective would be the strategy of registering in a single country).

Have a nice week-end,

-- 
Charles Plessy
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan


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Re: Registering the Debian Logo as our trademark?

[Steve Langasek]

Hi Brian,

On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 04:04:34PM -0400, Brian Gupta wrote:
 I have been helping to field trademark inquiries for Debian since late
 February, and the issue of our Logo has come up a number of times.

 Currently, our logo is not a registered Trademark, but is considered
 (and treated by our current Trademark policy) as a common law
 trademark, in that we have been using it to represent Debian for many
 years, and many people see it and recognize it as Debian's logo.

 I know there have been discussions in the past about moving forward
 with officially registering the logo, but these discussions seem to
 have not ended with a clear decision or agreement one way or another,
 hence the status quo of unregistered common law trademark.

 Generally speaking, as a matter of law, it would be better if we
 registered our logo as our Trademark. We had also gotten advice from
 our legal counsel (SFLC) encouraging us to do so.

 I don't believe any changes would be required to our Trademark policy
 to accomodate the change from common law to registered trademark,
 we'd just have the benefit that we'd have an easier time protecting
 it, if we ever found a need to do so.

Thanks for tackling this perpetually murky issue.  I agree that we should
pursue getting a registered trademark for the Debian logo, putting to bed
once for all the questions around its use.  A one-time $700 cost seems
reasonable to me; our logo is nearly as important to our brand as our name
is.

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org


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Description: Digital signature

Re: Registering the Debian Logo as our trademark?

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Brian Gupta brian.gu...@brandorr.com [2013-04-22 16:58]:
 1) Gnome foot is licensed under LGPL/GPL and is a registered
 Trademark: (Pretty much all artwork including the foot is licensed
 under Copyright law under LGPL/GPL).

GNOME actually has a good example of why it makes sense to license
your logo freely and yet claim trademark rights.

As Brian pointed out, copyright and trademark do different things:
copyright is about modification (in this case) whereas trademark is
about brand identity.  While we can use a DFSG free license for the
logo, we can use our trademark rights to make sure there is no
confusion as to our brand.  In reality (as you point out, Paul), this
limits the ability to make changes to the logo as it would likely
cause confusions around the brand.

However, there are situations where this is not the case.  GNOME has a
really good example: someone took the GNOME logo and replaced the foot
with a fish in order to use it for a fish-pedicure company.  This is a
valid use of copyright (their license allows modification) _and_ of
trademark (there is no confusion between a piece of software and a
fish-pedicure company, even if they use similar logos).

See this LWN article for more information:

LFCS 2012: Trademarks for free software projects
https://lwn.net/Articles/491639/

It contains a copy of the GNOME-derived fish-pedicure logo.

-- 
Martin Michlmayr
http://www.cyrius.com/


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Re: Registering the Debian Logo as our trademark?

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Brian Gupta brian.gu...@brandorr.com [2013-04-22 16:04]:
 What do people feel about proceeding with this registration?

I'm strongly in favour.  As pointed out in my other email, there's no
conflict between having a DFSG-free logo and having a registered
trademark.

-- 
Martin Michlmayr
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Re: Registering the Debian Logo as our trademark?

[MJ Ray]

MJ Ray mjr at phonecoop.coop writes:
 [registration] allows law
 enforcement officers to prosecute what they consider infringement,
 whether or not we do.  This is one way that multinationals make
 taxpayers pay for policing their brands - however, debian is not
 locked down like LVMH or DG.

I'd like to make it clear that I was suggesting LVMH and DG as typical
of how most trademarks are locked down, not that their holders have
necessarily directly controlled legislation.

I'd also like to make it clear lawyers are reading our lists ;-)

Hope that helps,
-- 
MJR
http://people.debian.org/~mjr/
Maybe My Opinion Only.



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Re: Registering the Debian Logo as our trademark?

[MJ Ray]

Brian Gupta brian.gu...@brandorr.com
 Pros:
 -
 - Makes it easier, legally speaking, to protect our trademark, if it
 ever came to it

Is this a significant benefit?  How many protection actions have been
prevented by the lack of registration?

 - When companies are doing trademark searches for logos in the
 trademark database, they would be discouraged from using our logo, as
 it is would be in the database.

Do abusers of our trademark bother to search?  Surely they'd be
discouraged if they search the web?  That's easier to search than
the USPTO database.

 - If a company tries to register a logo trademark that is the same as
 ours, the USPTO should not allow it, since it is in their database. (I
 say should, as mistakes can happen)

Related questions: Is the US the best place for the primary
registration?  How is it better than filing in an EU state and
using the Madrid Protocol or similar?

 Cons:
 -
 - Filing costs of ~$700
 - Labor/work required to file (With assistance from SFLC, I am willing
 to do much of the work required.)
 - Required extra coordination with SPI
 - If someone has already filed our logo as a trademark, we will be
 forced into a situation where we need to deal with that. (I have
 already done a preliminary search of the USPTO database, and found no
 such occurrences, so feel this risk is minimal.)
 - In order to maintain the status of a federally registered trademark,
 the owner must file a statement of continued use and later, a renewal
 application. (Again more work, which I am willing to do.)

Is this a one-way trap-door?  If we register, do we have to maintain
registration forever or lose the benefits?  Can we fall back to a
common law trademark later?

I feel you're missing a major con: whereas any type of trademark
infringement is a civil law dispute, one effect of registration is to
activate criminal law in many places (I think it's still the
Copyright, Trademarks, etc Act 2002 in the UK).  That allows law
enforcement officers to prosecute what they consider infringement,
whether or not we do.  This is one way that multinationals make
taxpayers pay for policing their brands - however, debian is not
locked down like LVMH or DG.

Most of the people who would use the debian logo are our supporters
and we'd be putting them at risk from harrassment by the sort of
ignorant officers who famously complained to the Mozilla Foundation
that releasing a browser under a Free Software copyright licence made
it hard for them to prosecute illegal file sharing or whatever it was.

 Other projects that have registered their logo:
 ---

When I was looking years ago, the Java mascot was the only really
nicely licensed trademark I found.  I regret that I've not got time to
see if/how the others have changed recently.

With word marks, hasn't our project had complaints from well-meaning
supporters of other projects about keeping the same command name
(maybe through /etc/alternatives) when we've patched and maybe even
renamed packages?  Maybe less of a problem for logos, though.

[...]
 What do people feel about proceeding with this registration?

I would rather not do it, but if we do, I think it needs extreme
caution.  It's very easy to screw things up and end up making an
entire class of works under DFSG-following copyright licences become
non-free because of a DFSG-breaching trademark licence and obnoxious
criminal trademark law defaults.

Regards,
-- 
MJR/slef
My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/
Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct


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Registering the Debian Logo as our trademark?

[Brian Gupta]

Hi all,

I have been helping to field trademark inquiries for Debian since late
February, and the issue of our Logo has come up a number of times.

Currently, our logo is not a registered Trademark, but is considered
(and treated by our current Trademark policy) as a common law
trademark, in that we have been using it to represent Debian for many
years, and many people see it and recognize it as Debian's logo.

I know there have been discussions in the past about moving forward
with officially registering the logo, but these discussions seem to
have not ended with a clear decision or agreement one way or another,
hence the status quo of unregistered common law trademark.

Generally speaking, as a matter of law, it would be better if we
registered our logo as our Trademark. We had also gotten advice from
our legal counsel (SFLC) encouraging us to do so.

I don't believe any changes would be required to our Trademark policy
to accomodate the change from common law to registered trademark,
we'd just have the benefit that we'd have an easier time protecting
it, if we ever found a need to do so.

Here is the Debian Trademark Policy 2.0 [1] guidance on using logos:

Guidelines for Using Logos

- Any scaling must retain the original proportions of the logo.
- Do not use the Debian logos as part of your company logo or product
logo or branding itself. They can be used as part of a page describing
your products or services.
- You need not ask us for permission to use logos on your own website
solely as a hyperlink to the Debian project website.

Some may wonder if Registering our logo as a trademark is possible
with the logo under a fairly liberal Free Software license. The answer
is yes, as Copyrights are a different set of rights than Trademark.
Bear in mind or Logo is already one of our Trademarks, we just don't
have it registered.

Another question that one might raise is, What if the USPTO rejects
our logo as too simple, and not creative enough? In answer, this is
not a criteria for acceptance. If the mark is distinctive, and unique,
and isn't already registered, it doesn't really matter how simple or
complex a design is. e.g. - Think of the Nike Swoosh.

I would like to work to address what I perceive to be a bug, and get
our logo official registered. I spoke to leader@ (Lucas) about this,
and he said that I should first start a dicussion on -project laying
out the pros and cons, with examples of what other similar projects
are doing.

Pros:
-
- Makes it easier, legally speaking, to protect our trademark, if it
ever came to it
- When companies are doing trademark searches for logos in the
trademark database, they would be discouraged from using our logo, as
it is would be in the database.
- If a company tries to register a logo trademark that is the same as
ours, the USPTO should not allow it, since it is in their database. (I
say should, as mistakes can happen)

Cons:
-
- Filing costs of ~$700
- Labor/work required to file (With assistance from SFLC, I am willing
to do much of the work required.)
- Required extra coordination with SPI
- If someone has already filed our logo as a trademark, we will be
forced into a situation where we need to deal with that. (I have
already done a preliminary search of the USPTO database, and found no
such occurrences, so feel this risk is minimal.)
- In order to maintain the status of a federally registered trademark,
the owner must file a statement of continued use and later, a renewal
application. (Again more work, which I am willing to do.)

Other projects that have registered their logo:
---
- Apache - Many trademarks, including the feather
http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/list/
- OpenOffice - Seagull logo
http://www.openoffice.org/marketing/art/galleries/logos/
- Gentoo Linux - G logo http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/name-logo.xml
- Fedora - Multiple logos http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo/UsageGuidelines
- Drupal CMS - Druplicon logo http://drupal.org/node/9068
http://drupal.com/trademark
- Gnome - Gnome Foot http://www.gnome.org/foundation/legal-and-trademarks/
- Mozilla - Multiple logos (Firefox, Thunderbird and Mozilla)
http://blog.mozilla.org/press/media-library/
- KDE - KDE and the K Desktop Environment logos
http://techbase.kde.org/Template:KDE_Trademark_Notice

So far in my search of other large Free Software Projects that have a
singular graphical identify, pretty much all have a registered
graphical trademark, with the exception of the GNU project's gnuhead
logo. (However, FSF does still treat it as a trademark
http://www.gnu.org/graphics/agnuhead.html)

What do people feel about proceeding with this registration?

Thanks,
Brian

[1] - http://www.debian.org/trademark


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Archive: 

Re: Registering the Debian Logo as our trademark?

[Yaroslav Halchenko]

Hi Brian,

Just to make sure:  you are talking not about swirl alone, but rather
about swirl + word Debian.  Is that correct?

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013, Brian Gupta wrote:

 Hi all,

 I have been helping to field trademark inquiries for Debian since late
 February, and the issue of our Logo has come up a number of times.

 Currently, our logo is not a registered Trademark, but is considered
 (and treated by our current Trademark policy) as a common law
 trademark, in that we have been using it to represent Debian for many
 years, and many people see it and recognize it as Debian's logo.

 I know there have been discussions in the past about moving forward
 with officially registering the logo, but these discussions seem to
 have not ended with a clear decision or agreement one way or another,
 hence the status quo of unregistered common law trademark.

 Generally speaking, as a matter of law, it would be better if we
 registered our logo as our Trademark. We had also gotten advice from
 our legal counsel (SFLC) encouraging us to do so.

 I don't believe any changes would be required to our Trademark policy
 to accomodate the change from common law to registered trademark,
 we'd just have the benefit that we'd have an easier time protecting
 it, if we ever found a need to do so.

 Here is the Debian Trademark Policy 2.0 [1] guidance on using logos:

 Guidelines for Using Logos

 - Any scaling must retain the original proportions of the logo.
 - Do not use the Debian logos as part of your company logo or product
 logo or branding itself. They can be used as part of a page describing
 your products or services.
 - You need not ask us for permission to use logos on your own website
 solely as a hyperlink to the Debian project website.

 Some may wonder if Registering our logo as a trademark is possible
 with the logo under a fairly liberal Free Software license. The answer
 is yes, as Copyrights are a different set of rights than Trademark.
 Bear in mind or Logo is already one of our Trademarks, we just don't
 have it registered.

 Another question that one might raise is, What if the USPTO rejects
 our logo as too simple, and not creative enough? In answer, this is
 not a criteria for acceptance. If the mark is distinctive, and unique,
 and isn't already registered, it doesn't really matter how simple or
 complex a design is. e.g. - Think of the Nike Swoosh.

 I would like to work to address what I perceive to be a bug, and get
 our logo official registered. I spoke to leader@ (Lucas) about this,
 and he said that I should first start a dicussion on -project laying
 out the pros and cons, with examples of what other similar projects
 are doing.

 Pros:
 -
 - Makes it easier, legally speaking, to protect our trademark, if it
 ever came to it
 - When companies are doing trademark searches for logos in the
 trademark database, they would be discouraged from using our logo, as
 it is would be in the database.
 - If a company tries to register a logo trademark that is the same as
 ours, the USPTO should not allow it, since it is in their database. (I
 say should, as mistakes can happen)

 Cons:
 -
 - Filing costs of ~$700
 - Labor/work required to file (With assistance from SFLC, I am willing
 to do much of the work required.)
 - Required extra coordination with SPI
 - If someone has already filed our logo as a trademark, we will be
 forced into a situation where we need to deal with that. (I have
 already done a preliminary search of the USPTO database, and found no
 such occurrences, so feel this risk is minimal.)
 - In order to maintain the status of a federally registered trademark,
 the owner must file a statement of continued use and later, a renewal
 application. (Again more work, which I am willing to do.)

 Other projects that have registered their logo:
 ---
 - Apache - Many trademarks, including the feather
 http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/list/
 - OpenOffice - Seagull logo
 http://www.openoffice.org/marketing/art/galleries/logos/
 - Gentoo Linux - G logo http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/name-logo.xml
 - Fedora - Multiple logos http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo/UsageGuidelines
 - Drupal CMS - Druplicon logo http://drupal.org/node/9068
 http://drupal.com/trademark
 - Gnome - Gnome Foot http://www.gnome.org/foundation/legal-and-trademarks/
 - Mozilla - Multiple logos (Firefox, Thunderbird and Mozilla)
 http://blog.mozilla.org/press/media-library/
 - KDE - KDE and the K Desktop Environment logos
 http://techbase.kde.org/Template:KDE_Trademark_Notice

 So far in my search of other large Free Software Projects that have a
 singular graphical identify, pretty much all have a registered
 graphical trademark, with the exception of the GNU project's gnuhead
 logo. (However, FSF does still treat it as a trademark
 http://www.gnu.org/graphics/agnuhead.html)

 What do people feel about proceeding with this registration?

 Thanks,
 Brian

 [1] - 

Re: Registering the Debian Logo as our trademark?

[Paul Tagliamonte]

On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 04:13:24PM -0400, Yaroslav Halchenko wrote:
 Hi Brian,
 
 Just to make sure:  you are talking not about swirl alone, but rather
 about swirl + word Debian.  Is that correct?

Both are now open-use. The only non-DFSG free logo would be the bottle
logo, ISTR. (the font is DFSG free as well now, on it's own, which was a
major theme blocker for a while)

 
 On Mon, 22 Apr 2013, Brian Gupta wrote:
 
  Hi all,
 
  I have been helping to field trademark inquiries for Debian since late
  February, and the issue of our Logo has come up a number of times.
 
  Currently, our logo is not a registered Trademark, but is considered
  (and treated by our current Trademark policy) as a common law
  trademark, in that we have been using it to represent Debian for many
  years, and many people see it and recognize it as Debian's logo.
 
  I know there have been discussions in the past about moving forward
  with officially registering the logo, but these discussions seem to
  have not ended with a clear decision or agreement one way or another,
  hence the status quo of unregistered common law trademark.
 
  Generally speaking, as a matter of law, it would be better if we
  registered our logo as our Trademark. We had also gotten advice from
  our legal counsel (SFLC) encouraging us to do so.
 
  I don't believe any changes would be required to our Trademark policy
  to accomodate the change from common law to registered trademark,
  we'd just have the benefit that we'd have an easier time protecting
  it, if we ever found a need to do so.
 
  Here is the Debian Trademark Policy 2.0 [1] guidance on using logos:
 
  Guidelines for Using Logos
 
  - Any scaling must retain the original proportions of the logo.
  - Do not use the Debian logos as part of your company logo or product
  logo or branding itself. They can be used as part of a page describing
  your products or services.
  - You need not ask us for permission to use logos on your own website
  solely as a hyperlink to the Debian project website.
 
  Some may wonder if Registering our logo as a trademark is possible
  with the logo under a fairly liberal Free Software license. The answer
  is yes, as Copyrights are a different set of rights than Trademark.
  Bear in mind or Logo is already one of our Trademarks, we just don't
  have it registered.
 
  Another question that one might raise is, What if the USPTO rejects
  our logo as too simple, and not creative enough? In answer, this is
  not a criteria for acceptance. If the mark is distinctive, and unique,
  and isn't already registered, it doesn't really matter how simple or
  complex a design is. e.g. - Think of the Nike Swoosh.
 
  I would like to work to address what I perceive to be a bug, and get
  our logo official registered. I spoke to leader@ (Lucas) about this,
  and he said that I should first start a dicussion on -project laying
  out the pros and cons, with examples of what other similar projects
  are doing.
 
  Pros:
  -
  - Makes it easier, legally speaking, to protect our trademark, if it
  ever came to it
  - When companies are doing trademark searches for logos in the
  trademark database, they would be discouraged from using our logo, as
  it is would be in the database.
  - If a company tries to register a logo trademark that is the same as
  ours, the USPTO should not allow it, since it is in their database. (I
  say should, as mistakes can happen)
 
  Cons:
  -
  - Filing costs of ~$700
  - Labor/work required to file (With assistance from SFLC, I am willing
  to do much of the work required.)
  - Required extra coordination with SPI
  - If someone has already filed our logo as a trademark, we will be
  forced into a situation where we need to deal with that. (I have
  already done a preliminary search of the USPTO database, and found no
  such occurrences, so feel this risk is minimal.)
  - In order to maintain the status of a federally registered trademark,
  the owner must file a statement of continued use and later, a renewal
  application. (Again more work, which I am willing to do.)
 
  Other projects that have registered their logo:
  ---
  - Apache - Many trademarks, including the feather
  http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/list/
  - OpenOffice - Seagull logo
  http://www.openoffice.org/marketing/art/galleries/logos/
  - Gentoo Linux - G logo http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/name-logo.xml
  - Fedora - Multiple logos http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo/UsageGuidelines
  - Drupal CMS - Druplicon logo http://drupal.org/node/9068
  http://drupal.com/trademark
  - Gnome - Gnome Foot http://www.gnome.org/foundation/legal-and-trademarks/
  - Mozilla - Multiple logos (Firefox, Thunderbird and Mozilla)
  http://blog.mozilla.org/press/media-library/
  - KDE - KDE and the K Desktop Environment logos
  http://techbase.kde.org/Template:KDE_Trademark_Notice
 
  So far in my search of other large Free Software Projects 

Re: Registering the Debian Logo as our trademark?

[Yaroslav Halchenko]

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013, Paul Tagliamonte wrote:

  Just to make sure:  you are talking not about swirl alone, but rather
  about swirl + word Debian.  Is that correct?

 Both are now open-use. 

I was interested which logo was suggested to become a registered Trademark.

-- 
Yaroslav O. Halchenko, Ph.D.
http://neuro.debian.net http://www.pymvpa.org http://www.fail2ban.org
Senior Research Associate, Psychological and Brain Sciences Dept.
Dartmouth College, 419 Moore Hall, Hinman Box 6207, Hanover, NH 03755
Phone: +1 (603) 646-9834   Fax: +1 (603) 646-1419
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Re: Registering the Debian Logo as our trademark?

[Yaroslav Halchenko]

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013, Brian Gupta wrote:

  Just to make sure:  you are talking not about swirl alone, but rather
  about swirl + word Debian.  Is that correct?
 Yes, the swirl alone.

Could it be trademarked?  I thought that because of its unfortunately
common origin there is so many of existing uses of it by others
(although not sure if any are IT related) which would preclude
it to be registered for our project.  I could be utterly wrong and would
not mind at all to be corrected ;-)

Cheers,

  On Mon, 22 Apr 2013, Brian Gupta wrote:

  Hi all,

  I have been helping to field trademark inquiries for Debian since late
  February, and the issue of our Logo has come up a number of times.

  Currently, our logo is not a registered Trademark, but is considered
  (and treated by our current Trademark policy) as a common law
  trademark, in that we have been using it to represent Debian for many
  years, and many people see it and recognize it as Debian's logo.

  I know there have been discussions in the past about moving forward
  with officially registering the logo, but these discussions seem to
  have not ended with a clear decision or agreement one way or another,
  hence the status quo of unregistered common law trademark.

  Generally speaking, as a matter of law, it would be better if we
  registered our logo as our Trademark. We had also gotten advice from
  our legal counsel (SFLC) encouraging us to do so.

  I don't believe any changes would be required to our Trademark policy
  to accomodate the change from common law to registered trademark,
  we'd just have the benefit that we'd have an easier time protecting
  it, if we ever found a need to do so.

  Here is the Debian Trademark Policy 2.0 [1] guidance on using logos:

  Guidelines for Using Logos

  - Any scaling must retain the original proportions of the logo.
  - Do not use the Debian logos as part of your company logo or product
  logo or branding itself. They can be used as part of a page describing
  your products or services.
  - You need not ask us for permission to use logos on your own website
  solely as a hyperlink to the Debian project website.

  Some may wonder if Registering our logo as a trademark is possible
  with the logo under a fairly liberal Free Software license. The answer
  is yes, as Copyrights are a different set of rights than Trademark.
  Bear in mind or Logo is already one of our Trademarks, we just don't
  have it registered.

  Another question that one might raise is, What if the USPTO rejects
  our logo as too simple, and not creative enough? In answer, this is
  not a criteria for acceptance. If the mark is distinctive, and unique,
  and isn't already registered, it doesn't really matter how simple or
  complex a design is. e.g. - Think of the Nike Swoosh.

  I would like to work to address what I perceive to be a bug, and get
  our logo official registered. I spoke to leader@ (Lucas) about this,
  and he said that I should first start a dicussion on -project laying
  out the pros and cons, with examples of what other similar projects
  are doing.

  Pros:
  -
  - Makes it easier, legally speaking, to protect our trademark, if it
  ever came to it
  - When companies are doing trademark searches for logos in the
  trademark database, they would be discouraged from using our logo, as
  it is would be in the database.
  - If a company tries to register a logo trademark that is the same as
  ours, the USPTO should not allow it, since it is in their database. (I
  say should, as mistakes can happen)

  Cons:
  -
  - Filing costs of ~$700
  - Labor/work required to file (With assistance from SFLC, I am willing
  to do much of the work required.)
  - Required extra coordination with SPI
  - If someone has already filed our logo as a trademark, we will be
  forced into a situation where we need to deal with that. (I have
  already done a preliminary search of the USPTO database, and found no
  such occurrences, so feel this risk is minimal.)
  - In order to maintain the status of a federally registered trademark,
  the owner must file a statement of continued use and later, a renewal
  application. (Again more work, which I am willing to do.)

  Other projects that have registered their logo:
  ---
  - Apache - Many trademarks, including the feather
  http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/list/
  - OpenOffice - Seagull logo
  http://www.openoffice.org/marketing/art/galleries/logos/
  - Gentoo Linux - G logo http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/name-logo.xml
  - Fedora - Multiple logos 
  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo/UsageGuidelines
  - Drupal CMS - Druplicon logo http://drupal.org/node/9068
  http://drupal.com/trademark
  - Gnome - Gnome Foot http://www.gnome.org/foundation/legal-and-trademarks/
  - Mozilla - Multiple logos (Firefox, Thunderbird and Mozilla)
  http://blog.mozilla.org/press/media-library/
  - KDE - KDE and the K Desktop Environment logos
  

Re: Registering the Debian Logo as our trademark?

[Brian Gupta]

On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Paul Tagliamonte paul...@debian.org wrote:
 On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 04:04:34PM -0400, Brian Gupta wrote:
 Hi all,

 I have been helping to field trademark inquiries for Debian since late
 February, and the issue of our Logo has come up a number of times.

 Currently, our logo is not a registered Trademark, but is considered
 (and treated by our current Trademark policy) as a common law
 trademark, in that we have been using it to represent Debian for many
 years, and many people see it and recognize it as Debian's logo.

 I know there have been discussions in the past about moving forward
 with officially registering the logo, but these discussions seem to
 have not ended with a clear decision or agreement one way or another,
 hence the status quo of unregistered common law trademark.

 Generally speaking, as a matter of law, it would be better if we
 registered our logo as our Trademark. We had also gotten advice from
 our legal counsel (SFLC) encouraging us to do so.

 I don't believe any changes would be required to our Trademark policy
 to accomodate the change from common law to registered trademark,
 we'd just have the benefit that we'd have an easier time protecting
 it, if we ever found a need to do so.

 Here is the Debian Trademark Policy 2.0 [1] guidance on using logos:

 Note guidelines. We don't actually restrict use.


 Guidelines for Using Logos

 - Any scaling must retain the original proportions of the logo.
 - Do not use the Debian logos as part of your company logo or product
 logo or branding itself. They can be used as part of a page describing
 your products or services.
 - You need not ask us for permission to use logos on your own website
 solely as a hyperlink to the Debian project website.

 Some may wonder if Registering our logo as a trademark is possible
 with the logo under a fairly liberal Free Software license. The answer
 is yes, as Copyrights are a different set of rights than Trademark.
 Bear in mind or Logo is already one of our Trademarks, we just don't
 have it registered.

 Another question that one might raise is, What if the USPTO rejects
 our logo as too simple, and not creative enough? In answer, this is
 not a criteria for acceptance. If the mark is distinctive, and unique,
 and isn't already registered, it doesn't really matter how simple or
 complex a design is. e.g. - Think of the Nike Swoosh.

 I would like to work to address what I perceive to be a bug, and get
 our logo official registered. I spoke to leader@ (Lucas) about this,
 and he said that I should first start a dicussion on -project laying
 out the pros and cons, with examples of what other similar projects
 are doing.

 Pros:
 -
 - Makes it easier, legally speaking, to protect our trademark, if it
 ever came to it

 We really can't. It's now DFSG free. Folks can, legally speaking, do
 anything with it, now. There's still the restricted-use logo, which was
 left as-is, ISTR.

 - When companies are doing trademark searches for logos in the
 trademark database, they would be discouraged from using our logo, as
 it is would be in the database.
 - If a company tries to register a logo trademark that is the same as
 ours, the USPTO should not allow it, since it is in their database. (I
 say should, as mistakes can happen)

 Cons:
 -
 - Filing costs of ~$700
 - Labor/work required to file (With assistance from SFLC, I am willing
 to do much of the work required.)
 - Required extra coordination with SPI
 - If someone has already filed our logo as a trademark, we will be
 forced into a situation where we need to deal with that. (I have
 already done a preliminary search of the USPTO database, and found no
 such occurrences, so feel this risk is minimal.)
 - In order to maintain the status of a federally registered trademark,
 the owner must file a statement of continued use and later, a renewal
 application. (Again more work, which I am willing to do.)

 Other projects that have registered their logo:
 ---
 - Apache - Many trademarks, including the feather
 http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/list/
 - OpenOffice - Seagull logo
 http://www.openoffice.org/marketing/art/galleries/logos/
 - Gentoo Linux - G logo http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/name-logo.xml
 - Fedora - Multiple logos http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo/UsageGuidelines
 - Drupal CMS - Druplicon logo http://drupal.org/node/9068
 http://drupal.com/trademark
 - Gnome - Gnome Foot http://www.gnome.org/foundation/legal-and-trademarks/
 - Mozilla - Multiple logos (Firefox, Thunderbird and Mozilla)
 http://blog.mozilla.org/press/media-library/
 - KDE - KDE and the K Desktop Environment logos
 http://techbase.kde.org/Template:KDE_Trademark_Notice

 Do any of these also have a DFSG free logo? I know GNOME at least has
 been pissy about our use of their foot on some bug report / ml post I
 read.

Regarding the logo being licensed (under Copyright law) with a DFSG

Re: Registering the Debian Logo as our trademark?

[Paul Tagliamonte]

On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 04:58:27PM -0400, Brian Gupta wrote:
 On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Paul Tagliamonte paul...@debian.org wrote:
  On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 04:04:34PM -0400, Brian Gupta wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  I have been helping to field trademark inquiries for Debian since late
  February, and the issue of our Logo has come up a number of times.
 
  Currently, our logo is not a registered Trademark, but is considered
  (and treated by our current Trademark policy) as a common law
  trademark, in that we have been using it to represent Debian for many
  years, and many people see it and recognize it as Debian's logo.
 
  I know there have been discussions in the past about moving forward
  with officially registering the logo, but these discussions seem to
  have not ended with a clear decision or agreement one way or another,
  hence the status quo of unregistered common law trademark.
 
  Generally speaking, as a matter of law, it would be better if we
  registered our logo as our Trademark. We had also gotten advice from
  our legal counsel (SFLC) encouraging us to do so.
 
  I don't believe any changes would be required to our Trademark policy
  to accomodate the change from common law to registered trademark,
  we'd just have the benefit that we'd have an easier time protecting
  it, if we ever found a need to do so.
 
  Here is the Debian Trademark Policy 2.0 [1] guidance on using logos:
 
  Note guidelines. We don't actually restrict use.
 
 
  Guidelines for Using Logos
 
  - Any scaling must retain the original proportions of the logo.
  - Do not use the Debian logos as part of your company logo or product
  logo or branding itself. They can be used as part of a page describing
  your products or services.
  - You need not ask us for permission to use logos on your own website
  solely as a hyperlink to the Debian project website.
 
  Some may wonder if Registering our logo as a trademark is possible
  with the logo under a fairly liberal Free Software license. The answer
  is yes, as Copyrights are a different set of rights than Trademark.
  Bear in mind or Logo is already one of our Trademarks, we just don't
  have it registered.
 
  Another question that one might raise is, What if the USPTO rejects
  our logo as too simple, and not creative enough? In answer, this is
  not a criteria for acceptance. If the mark is distinctive, and unique,
  and isn't already registered, it doesn't really matter how simple or
  complex a design is. e.g. - Think of the Nike Swoosh.
 
  I would like to work to address what I perceive to be a bug, and get
  our logo official registered. I spoke to leader@ (Lucas) about this,
  and he said that I should first start a dicussion on -project laying
  out the pros and cons, with examples of what other similar projects
  are doing.
 
  Pros:
  -
  - Makes it easier, legally speaking, to protect our trademark, if it
  ever came to it
 
  We really can't. It's now DFSG free. Folks can, legally speaking, do
  anything with it, now. There's still the restricted-use logo, which was
  left as-is, ISTR.
 
  - When companies are doing trademark searches for logos in the
  trademark database, they would be discouraged from using our logo, as
  it is would be in the database.
  - If a company tries to register a logo trademark that is the same as
  ours, the USPTO should not allow it, since it is in their database. (I
  say should, as mistakes can happen)
 
  Cons:
  -
  - Filing costs of ~$700
  - Labor/work required to file (With assistance from SFLC, I am willing
  to do much of the work required.)
  - Required extra coordination with SPI
  - If someone has already filed our logo as a trademark, we will be
  forced into a situation where we need to deal with that. (I have
  already done a preliminary search of the USPTO database, and found no
  such occurrences, so feel this risk is minimal.)
  - In order to maintain the status of a federally registered trademark,
  the owner must file a statement of continued use and later, a renewal
  application. (Again more work, which I am willing to do.)
 
  Other projects that have registered their logo:
  ---
  - Apache - Many trademarks, including the feather
  http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/list/
  - OpenOffice - Seagull logo
  http://www.openoffice.org/marketing/art/galleries/logos/
  - Gentoo Linux - G logo http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/name-logo.xml
  - Fedora - Multiple logos 
  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo/UsageGuidelines
  - Drupal CMS - Druplicon logo http://drupal.org/node/9068
  http://drupal.com/trademark
  - Gnome - Gnome Foot http://www.gnome.org/foundation/legal-and-trademarks/
  - Mozilla - Multiple logos (Firefox, Thunderbird and Mozilla)
  http://blog.mozilla.org/press/media-library/
  - KDE - KDE and the K Desktop Environment logos
  http://techbase.kde.org/Template:KDE_Trademark_Notice
 
  Do any of these also have a DFSG free logo? I know 

Re: Registering the Debian Logo as our trademark?

[Brian Gupta]

On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Yaroslav Halchenko
deb...@onerussian.com wrote:

 On Mon, 22 Apr 2013, Brian Gupta wrote:

  Just to make sure:  you are talking not about swirl alone, but rather
  about swirl + word Debian.  Is that correct?
 Yes, the swirl alone.

 Could it be trademarked?  I thought that because of its unfortunately
 common origin there is so many of existing uses of it by others
 (although not sure if any are IT related) which would preclude
 it to be registered for our project.  I could be utterly wrong and would
 not mind at all to be corrected ;-)

Simplicity or ease of creation of a graphic does not preclude it from
being registered. I earlier gave the classic example of the Nike
Swoosh as a very simple graphic that has been trademarked:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BxDOaEZR7ZA/TJGH14FuNoI/AM8/SIMIINJzCzY/s1600/nike_logo-400-400.jpg

Remember we are not registering a generic swirl/spiral, but our
particular take on the spiral/swirl, which we have been using the
represent the Debian Project since 1999.

I did do a search of EVERY registered graphic trademark with the
metadata spiral or swirl and none even really resembled our logo.
(And there were a number that were simpler than ours.)

I do know there is some confusion as to simple geometric shapes,
because Copyright law has a higher bar of compliance to register
common shapes. IE: One isn't really able copyright an image that
consists of simple shapes like a single line, arrow, circle or square.

Trademarks have no such restriction, it would just be harder to prove
an association with your brand, and uniqueness, if you tried to
register, say a single line, as one's trademark. (Which certainly
would be used everywhere and be dilutive to the point of being
unregisterable.)

I'll also, add that if we move forward, I will certainly share any
issues and concerns raised with the SFLC, from this discussion.

Remember, we are treating the logo as our common law trademark today.

Thanks,
-Brian

 Cheers,

  On Mon, 22 Apr 2013, Brian Gupta wrote:

  Hi all,

  I have been helping to field trademark inquiries for Debian since late
  February, and the issue of our Logo has come up a number of times.

  Currently, our logo is not a registered Trademark, but is considered
  (and treated by our current Trademark policy) as a common law
  trademark, in that we have been using it to represent Debian for many
  years, and many people see it and recognize it as Debian's logo.

  I know there have been discussions in the past about moving forward
  with officially registering the logo, but these discussions seem to
  have not ended with a clear decision or agreement one way or another,
  hence the status quo of unregistered common law trademark.

  Generally speaking, as a matter of law, it would be better if we
  registered our logo as our Trademark. We had also gotten advice from
  our legal counsel (SFLC) encouraging us to do so.

  I don't believe any changes would be required to our Trademark policy
  to accomodate the change from common law to registered trademark,
  we'd just have the benefit that we'd have an easier time protecting
  it, if we ever found a need to do so.

  Here is the Debian Trademark Policy 2.0 [1] guidance on using logos:

  Guidelines for Using Logos

  - Any scaling must retain the original proportions of the logo.
  - Do not use the Debian logos as part of your company logo or product
  logo or branding itself. They can be used as part of a page describing
  your products or services.
  - You need not ask us for permission to use logos on your own website
  solely as a hyperlink to the Debian project website.

  Some may wonder if Registering our logo as a trademark is possible
  with the logo under a fairly liberal Free Software license. The answer
  is yes, as Copyrights are a different set of rights than Trademark.
  Bear in mind or Logo is already one of our Trademarks, we just don't
  have it registered.

  Another question that one might raise is, What if the USPTO rejects
  our logo as too simple, and not creative enough? In answer, this is
  not a criteria for acceptance. If the mark is distinctive, and unique,
  and isn't already registered, it doesn't really matter how simple or
  complex a design is. e.g. - Think of the Nike Swoosh.

  I would like to work to address what I perceive to be a bug, and get
  our logo official registered. I spoke to leader@ (Lucas) about this,
  and he said that I should first start a dicussion on -project laying
  out the pros and cons, with examples of what other similar projects
  are doing.

  Pros:
  -
  - Makes it easier, legally speaking, to protect our trademark, if it
  ever came to it
  - When companies are doing trademark searches for logos in the
  trademark database, they would be discouraged from using our logo, as
  it is would be in the database.
  - If a company tries to register a logo trademark that is the same as
  ours, the USPTO should not allow 

Re: Registering the Debian Logo as our trademark?

[Brian Gupta]

On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Paul Tagliamonte paul...@debian.org wrote:
 On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 04:58:27PM -0400, Brian Gupta wrote:
 On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Paul Tagliamonte paul...@debian.org wrote:
  On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 04:04:34PM -0400, Brian Gupta wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  I have been helping to field trademark inquiries for Debian since late
  February, and the issue of our Logo has come up a number of times.
 
  Currently, our logo is not a registered Trademark, but is considered
  (and treated by our current Trademark policy) as a common law
  trademark, in that we have been using it to represent Debian for many
  years, and many people see it and recognize it as Debian's logo.
 
  I know there have been discussions in the past about moving forward
  with officially registering the logo, but these discussions seem to
  have not ended with a clear decision or agreement one way or another,
  hence the status quo of unregistered common law trademark.
 
  Generally speaking, as a matter of law, it would be better if we
  registered our logo as our Trademark. We had also gotten advice from
  our legal counsel (SFLC) encouraging us to do so.
 
  I don't believe any changes would be required to our Trademark policy
  to accomodate the change from common law to registered trademark,
  we'd just have the benefit that we'd have an easier time protecting
  it, if we ever found a need to do so.
 
  Here is the Debian Trademark Policy 2.0 [1] guidance on using logos:
 
  Note guidelines. We don't actually restrict use.
 
 
  Guidelines for Using Logos
 
  - Any scaling must retain the original proportions of the logo.
  - Do not use the Debian logos as part of your company logo or product
  logo or branding itself. They can be used as part of a page describing
  your products or services.
  - You need not ask us for permission to use logos on your own website
  solely as a hyperlink to the Debian project website.
 
  Some may wonder if Registering our logo as a trademark is possible
  with the logo under a fairly liberal Free Software license. The answer
  is yes, as Copyrights are a different set of rights than Trademark.
  Bear in mind or Logo is already one of our Trademarks, we just don't
  have it registered.
 
  Another question that one might raise is, What if the USPTO rejects
  our logo as too simple, and not creative enough? In answer, this is
  not a criteria for acceptance. If the mark is distinctive, and unique,
  and isn't already registered, it doesn't really matter how simple or
  complex a design is. e.g. - Think of the Nike Swoosh.
 
  I would like to work to address what I perceive to be a bug, and get
  our logo official registered. I spoke to leader@ (Lucas) about this,
  and he said that I should first start a dicussion on -project laying
  out the pros and cons, with examples of what other similar projects
  are doing.
 
  Pros:
  -
  - Makes it easier, legally speaking, to protect our trademark, if it
  ever came to it
 
  We really can't. It's now DFSG free. Folks can, legally speaking, do
  anything with it, now. There's still the restricted-use logo, which was
  left as-is, ISTR.
 
  - When companies are doing trademark searches for logos in the
  trademark database, they would be discouraged from using our logo, as
  it is would be in the database.
  - If a company tries to register a logo trademark that is the same as
  ours, the USPTO should not allow it, since it is in their database. (I
  say should, as mistakes can happen)
 
  Cons:
  -
  - Filing costs of ~$700
  - Labor/work required to file (With assistance from SFLC, I am willing
  to do much of the work required.)
  - Required extra coordination with SPI
  - If someone has already filed our logo as a trademark, we will be
  forced into a situation where we need to deal with that. (I have
  already done a preliminary search of the USPTO database, and found no
  such occurrences, so feel this risk is minimal.)
  - In order to maintain the status of a federally registered trademark,
  the owner must file a statement of continued use and later, a renewal
  application. (Again more work, which I am willing to do.)
 
  Other projects that have registered their logo:
  ---
  - Apache - Many trademarks, including the feather
  http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/list/
  - OpenOffice - Seagull logo
  http://www.openoffice.org/marketing/art/galleries/logos/
  - Gentoo Linux - G logo http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/name-logo.xml
  - Fedora - Multiple logos 
  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo/UsageGuidelines
  - Drupal CMS - Druplicon logo http://drupal.org/node/9068
  http://drupal.com/trademark
  - Gnome - Gnome Foot http://www.gnome.org/foundation/legal-and-trademarks/
  - Mozilla - Multiple logos (Firefox, Thunderbird and Mozilla)
  http://blog.mozilla.org/press/media-library/
  - KDE - KDE and the K Desktop Environment logos
  

Re: Debian Logo from Tenerife

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Fri, 21 Dec 2012, Markus Frosch wrote:
 Hey everyone,
 just saw the Debian tee can and wanted to share you this:
 
 http://www.puertodelacruz.com/noticias-de-puerto-de-la-cruz/llega-la-semana-expocomercial-a-puerto-de-la-cruz/201208161578.html

Meh, the difference being that the Tea set clearly was just your generic
spiral, while this expo in Puerto de la Cruz clearly is using our logo.

-- 
  One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie. -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Debian Logo from Tenerife

[Markus Frosch]

Hey everyone,
just saw the Debian tee can and wanted to share you this:

http://www.puertodelacruz.com/noticias-de-puerto-de-la-cruz/llega-la-semana-expocomercial-a-puerto-de-la-cruz/201208161578.html

;-)

Regards
Markus
--
Markus Frosch
mar...@lazyfrosch.de
http://www.lazyfrosch.de


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DFSG-free relicensing of the Debian logo(s) - DONE

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 05:36:04PM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
 The actual relicensing shall be done by SPI (as copyright owner) and has
 not happened yet. But it should happen during the next SPI board
 meeting, scheduled for September 13th, 2012.

The above has now happened. SPI resolution is at:

  http://www.spi-inc.org/corporate/resolutions/2012/2012-09-07.rtb.1/

Yesterday I've committed the change to the licensing information at:

  http://www.debian.org/logos/

the change is now live.

 If you're working on Debian artworks or the like, feel free to start
 using the official logo in them. Assuming that it will be DFSG-free RSN
 is now a safe bet. You should just avoid claiming that it is *already*
 free until my final announcement here (after September 13th).

For the -desktop people, I've reviewed the content of the desktop-base
package, and it seems that none of the new themes uses the debian
label, so there should be no need to change them at all. But if you
didn't use the debian label for licensing reason, you still have a to
add it (to be verified with the package maintainer and release team for
unblock reasons, though). The spacefun team does use a debian label,
typeset in the non-official typeface, though. If you want to update it
to use the official typeface, you do have a chance to do so now (under
similar constraints than above).

Cheers.
-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli  . . . . . . .  z...@upsilon.cc . . . . o . . . o . o
Maître de conférences . . . . . http://upsilon.cc/zack . . . o . . . o o
Debian Project Leader . . . . . . @zack on identi.ca . . o o o . . . o .
« the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club »


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: DFSG-free relicensing of the Debian logo(s) - DONE

[Bernhard R. Link]

* Stefano Zacchiroli lea...@debian.org [121001 10:39]:
 On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 05:36:04PM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
  If you're working on Debian artworks or the like, feel free to start
  using the official logo in them. Assuming that it will be DFSG-free RSN
  is now a safe bet. You should just avoid claiming that it is *already*
  free until my final announcement here (after September 13th).
 
 For the -desktop people, I've reviewed the content of the desktop-base
 package, and it seems that none of the new themes uses the debian
 label, so there should be no need to change them at all. But if you
 didn't use the debian label for licensing reason, you still have a to
 add it (to be verified with the package maintainer and release team for
 unblock reasons, though). The spacefun team does use a debian label,
 typeset in the non-official typeface, though. If you want to update it
 to use the official typeface, you do have a chance to do so now (under
 similar constraints than above).

What is the trademark situation of the official logo? I was under the
impression that is still only to be used for Debian proper so isn't the
use of the official logo in themes quite problematic for derivatives
that do not derivate enough to change the themes?

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: question about Debian Logo with Debian

[Ruslanas Gžibovskis]

any ideas?

On 02/07/11 00:45, Ruslanas Gžibovskis wrote:

Hello, how are you?

About me:
I am using Debian at work (workstation), home (laptop), home (mldonkey
and torrentflux and samba server), and some hosting and multimedia
desktop servers.
writing my own Linux blog, where most manuals are based on Debian.
Sometimes help my co-worker to maintain http://debian.mirror.vu.lt

Question:
I wanted to print some stickers on my car and one of them would be
Debian Logo with words: I use *Debian logo* where i can, where i can't
I use *Linux logo*

Some Researches:
I have searched your web:
http://www.debian.org/trademark
http://www.debian.org/logos/index.en.html
Can I use Debian Logo with Debian name for that purpose (my english
isn't very well as you can see), so i didn't clearly understand if I can
use it, it's not for Business, but for my personal use.

Thank you.
Waiting for your reply.
Have a nice $day_time

--
Ruslanas Gzibovskis
http://lpic.lt



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Re: question about Debian Logo with Debian

[Yaroslav Halchenko]

IANAL  but in short

* you can use Debian Open Use Logo (swirl) but not Debian Official
  Use Logo License (bottle)

* you are not creating a software-related product, so use of Debian
  word in your banner would not infringe the Debian trademark

On Mon, 18 Jul 2011, Ruslanas Gžibovskis wrote:

 any ideas?

 On 02/07/11 00:45, Ruslanas Gžibovskis wrote:
 Hello, how are you?

 About me:
 I am using Debian at work (workstation), home (laptop), home (mldonkey
 and torrentflux and samba server), and some hosting and multimedia
 desktop servers.
 writing my own Linux blog, where most manuals are based on Debian.
 Sometimes help my co-worker to maintain http://debian.mirror.vu.lt

 Question:
 I wanted to print some stickers on my car and one of them would be
 Debian Logo with words: I use *Debian logo* where i can, where i can't
 I use *Linux logo*

 Some Researches:
 I have searched your web:
 http://www.debian.org/trademark
 http://www.debian.org/logos/index.en.html
 Can I use Debian Logo with Debian name for that purpose (my english
 isn't very well as you can see), so i didn't clearly understand if I can
 use it, it's not for Business, but for my personal use.

 Thank you.
 Waiting for your reply.
 Have a nice $day_time

 --
 Ruslanas Gzibovskis
 http://lpic.lt
-- 
=--=
Keep in touch www.onerussian.com
Yaroslav Halchenko www.ohloh.net/accounts/yarikoptic


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question about Debian Logo with Debian

[Ruslanas Gžibovskis]

Hello, how are you?

About me:
I am using Debian at work (workstation), home (laptop), home (mldonkey and
torrentflux and samba server), and some hosting and multimedia desktop
servers.
writing my own Linux blog, where most manuals are based on Debian.
Sometimes help my co-worker to maintain http://debian.mirror.vu.lt

Question:
I wanted to print some stickers on my car and one of them would be Debian
Logo with words: I use *Debian logo* where i can, where i can't I use
*Linux logo*

Some Researches:
I have searched your web:
http://www.debian.org/trademark
http://www.debian.org/logos/index.en.html
Can I use Debian Logo with Debian name for that purpose (my english isn't
very well as you can see), so i didn't clearly understand if I can use it,
it's not for Business, but for my personal use.

Thank you.
Waiting for your reply.
Have a nice $day_time

-- 
Ruslanas Gzibovskis
http://lpic.lt

Registration of Debian Logo unrelated to Debian

[Adrian von Bidder]

Hi,

On Friday 25 March 2011 14.43:32 [-R.I.P.-] - Макс wrote:
 Hello! You logo use without link!
 http://tm.patent.su/40-400999/tm/servl/servlete1dc.html loock this.
 it's pattent!

Thank you for notifying us.

I don't speak russian well, so I hope somebody else can translate what this 
page says.

кондитерские изделия, а именно конфеты, печенье, пирожные, зефир, лукум, 
торты, изделия кондитерские желеобразные, халва. is, according to Google, 
confectionery, namely candies, biscuits, cakes, marshmallows, Turkish 
delight, cakes, jelly confectionery, halva. so I don't think this is 
anything we should worry about on a first glance.

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
 How [Debian developers] maintain their sanity is beyond me.
Who says we do? ;)
-- Bob Tracy / Julien Cristau
   http://lists.debian.org/debian-alpha/2009/10/msg00026.html


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Re: [Debian-ask] Debian logo,

[Fernando C. Estrada]

 This mail was received at the Debian Ask Mail Address 

El mié, 12-01-2011 a las 15:56 +, Mark Pearson escribió:
 Hi,

Hi Mark

 I wonder if you could help me? I'm a long term user of Debian and I'm
 wanting to launch my own company blog based around my Debian experiences.
 It would be great if I could use the Debian logo in conjunction with my
 company brand.
 
 Hope you can assist with this issue.

I don't see any problem to use the Debian Open Use Logo [1] in your
company blog, but I include the project mailing list [2] for
better-informed answers.

Note: we would appreciate that you make the image a link to
http://www.debian.org/ if you use it on a web page.

Best Regards,

P.S.1. What's the link of your company blog? (the topic about Debian
experiences from a company point of view sounds interesting).

P.S.2. Sorry for the delayed answer.

[1] http://www.debian.org/logos/index.en.html#open-use
[2] http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/
-- 
Fernando C. Estrada


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Re: Debian logo used for commercial purposes

[Yves-Alexis Perez]

On sam., 2010-08-28 at 11:50 +0200, emanuele carrea wrote:
 Here it is
 
 http://www.zazzle.com/great_pacific_garbage_patch_sticker-217837941260564597
 
 didn't know where to write it, but I think it's worth saying it. 

Note that it's the swirl without Debian which is the “openuse” logo. See
http://www.debian.org/logos/

From http://gyresticker.org


Algalita Foundation, Oceana, 1% For The Planet and Debian, whose open
source logo is used for the project to represent the Gyre itself, in
turn, each receive checks accounting for 50% of revenues generated
($50.00 each). 


(it seems that the swirl represents pretty nicely the “gyre” concept
leading to the “great pacific garbage patch so they took the liberty to
use the debian logo, donating some money.
-- 
Yves-Alexis


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Legal use of the Debian Logo

[Ferdinando Bassi]

Hi all.
I found an italian site (http://www.4youargento.com/it/brand.asp)
where an italian jewelry sells a jewels line having the debian swirl
into the logo.
The word under the swirl is argento and means silver in italian.

Is it a legal use of the Debian Logo?

Thank you.


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Re: Legal use of the Debian Logo

[dE .]

No, absolutely not.

I think this logo is a trademark, i.e proprietary and so the owner of
the site should be warned about this.

You can take legal action against the dude in this case. Trademarks
and servicemarks have no expiry like patents.

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:47 PM, Ferdinando Bassi ferdyba...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all.
 I found an italian site (http://www.4youargento.com/it/brand.asp)
 where an italian jewelry sells a jewels line having the debian swirl
 into the logo.
 The word under the swirl is argento and means silver in italian.

 Is it a legal use of the Debian Logo?

 Thank you.


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Re: Legal use of the Debian Logo

[Cyril Brulebois]

dE . de.tec...@gmail.com (07/01/2010):
 No, absolutely not.
 
 I think this logo is a trademark, i.e proprietary and so the owner
 of the site should be warned about this.

You probably should just be answering that:
  http://www.debian.org/logos/

Mraw,
KiBi.


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Re: Legal use of the Debian Logo

[Giacomo Catenazzi]

dE . wrote:

No, absolutely not.

I think this logo is a trademark, i.e proprietary and so the owner of
the site should be warned about this.

You can take legal action against the dude in this case. Trademarks
and servicemarks have no expiry like patents.


On the contrary, I think it is fully legal:

copyright: the logo is too simple to enforce copyright.

trademark: we are in very different fields, so no risk
to confuse Debian with some jewels.

ciao
cate




On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:47 PM, Ferdinando Bassi ferdyba...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi all.
I found an italian site (http://www.4youargento.com/it/brand.asp)
where an italian jewelry sells a jewels line having the debian swirl
into the logo.
The word under the swirl is argento and means silver in italian.

Is it a legal use of the Debian Logo?

Thank you.


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Debian logo

[Sokoun LOR]

Hi, I was watching toy story and now, I'm wondering if the logo on Buzz
lightyear's chin was debian logo.

Regards

Re: Debian logo

[Chris Andrew]

http://blog.thedebianuser.org/?p=195

2008/12/3 Sokoun LOR [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi,
 I was watching toy story and now, I'm wondering if the logo on Buzz
 lightyear's chin was debian logo.
 Regards



-- 
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http://www.getgnulinux.org/


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Re: Debian Logo stoled

[Richard Meredith]

On 30 Oct 2008, at 03:31, Joe Smith wrote:

Hello Joe,


Hello Richard,

Richard Meredith wrote:

We have sent an email into Debian and kandath earlier today as I'm
unsure how to reply to Kandath's initial post on the matter,  
hopefully

the mailing list will can post our comments on our behalf.


Your message has indeed reached the list.


Thanks for getting back in touch, managed to get included in the list.




We take copyright very seriously at Twist Systems, so have  
thoroughly gone through
all of the original inspirational files for this project to make  
sure that no theft
has occurred. What is evident is our clients logo development was  
never influenced
Fully or Partly by the Debian logo, this is the first time we have  
been made aware

of it's existence.


This is not surprising. Others have also created similar logos in  
the past completely independently.
at least one such independeantly developed logo was nearly identical  
to the Debian logo. It happens.


We've had work copied more times than I care to mention, so have first  
hand experience of the upset it can cause both to the company and the  
designer (myself).




We have all of the original files that were used to develop the  
logo's creation if they

were ever needed to be called upon for clarification.


That is a good thing to have. In this case there is almostly  
certainly no need to provide
any further evidence. The Logo is definately not an exact duplicate,  
and it is being used
for a very different market. As long as your client does not try to  
enter the computer or
computer software markets, there is no real chance of customer  
confusion. I find it very
unlikely that Pure Organic Baby Food Limited will be switching from  
the baby food market
to the computer or software markets in the near future, so there is  
no issue.


Thats good to hear Joe, I can guarantee Pure will never be getting  
into the computer software market!!
If the files are ever needed then pleases get in touch I'll be more  
than happy to talk through our process and concepts for the customer.


Tel: 01269 823508 Web: www.twistsystems.co.uk





Joe Smith


Thanks for taking the time to reply Joe, much appreciated.

Diolch / Thanks

Richard Meredith
Twist Systems Limited | Design Develop Promote

T - 01269 823508
Registered in Wales. Company No: 5825181.

www.twistsystems.co.uk  |  www.twistlocal.co.uk

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Re: Re: Debian Logo stoled

[Joe Smith]

Hello Richard,

Richard Meredith wrote:

We have sent an email into Debian and kandath earlier today as I'm
unsure how to reply to Kandath's initial post on the matter, hopefully
the mailing list will can post our comments on our behalf.


Your message has indeed reached the list.

We take copyright very seriously at Twist Systems, so have thoroughly gone 
through
all of the original inspirational files for this project to make sure that 
no theft
has occurred. What is evident is our clients logo development was never 
influenced
Fully or Partly by the Debian logo, this is the first time we have been 
made aware

of it's existence.


This is not surprising. Others have also created similar logos in the past 
completely independently.
at least one such independeantly developed logo was nearly identical to the 
Debian logo. It happens.



We have all of the original files that were used to develop the logo's 
creation if they

were ever needed to be called upon for clarification.


That is a good thing to have. In this case there is almostly certainly no 
need to provide
any further evidence. The Logo is definately not an exact duplicate, and it 
is being used
for a very different market. As long as your client does not try to enter 
the computer or
computer software markets, there is no real chance of customer confusion. I 
find it very
unlikely that Pure Organic Baby Food Limited will be switching from the baby 
food market
to the computer or software markets in the near future, so there is no 
issue.


Joe Smith




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Re: Debian Logo stoled

[Neil McGovern]

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 04:46:08PM -0700, C.M. Connelly wrote:
 BF == Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
 BF For this, though, the relevant field is not copyright; it's
 BF trademark.
 
 BF Debian does, IIRC, have a trademark monopoly on the Debian
 BF logos; but I can't find reference to that, so I may be
 BF wrong. I'll continue on the assumption that they *are*
 BF trademarks held by SPI.
 
 No, we don't.
 
 We have a trademark on the word ``Debian''.  We do not have a trademark
 on the swirl logo or any other logotype.
 

Just for avoidance of doubt, we have the word 'Debian' as a *registered*
trademark, but not the logos. We do hold unregistered trademark on
these.

Neil
-- 
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Re: Debian Logo stoled

[C.M. Connelly]

BF == Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

BF For this, though, the relevant field is not copyright; it's
BF trademark.

BF Debian does, IIRC, have a trademark monopoly on the Debian
BF logos; but I can't find reference to that, so I may be
BF wrong. I'll continue on the assumption that they *are*
BF trademarks held by SPI.

No, we don't.

We have a trademark on the word ``Debian''.  We do not have a trademark
on the swirl logo or any other logotype.

   Claire

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
 Man cannot be civilised, or be kept civilised by what he does in his
spare time; only by what he does as his work.
 W.R. Lethaby
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
  C.M. Connelly   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   SHC, DS
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+


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Debian Logo stoled

[Kadath]

Hello.

Checkout this website, it looks like they steal Debian logotype.
http://www.pure-organic-baby-food.co.uk/


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Re: Debian Logo stoled

[Lars Wirzenius]

su, 2008-10-26 kello 09:24 +0200, Kadath kirjoitti:
 Hello.
 
 Checkout this website, it looks like they steal Debian logotype.
 http://www.pure-organic-baby-food.co.uk/

It's not an exact copy of the Debian logo, and Debian does not have a
monopoly on swirls. Thus, I think it is not a problem.


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Re: Re: Debian Logo stoled

[Richard Meredith]

Hello Lars,

thank you for your comments regarding the similarity of the Pure  
Organic and the Debian logo.


We have sent an email into Debian and kandath earlier today as I'm  
unsure how to reply to Kandath's initial post on the matter, hopefully  
the mailing list will can post our comments on our behalf.


We take copyright very seriously at Twist Systems, so have thoroughly  
gone through all of the original inspirational files for this project  
to make sure that no theft has occurred. What is evident is our  
clients logo development was never influenced Fully or Partly by the  
Debian logo, this is the first time we have been made aware of it's  
existence. We have all of the original files that were used to develop  
the logo's creation if they were ever needed to be called upon for  
clarification.


It’s becoming more and more difficult to execute original logo  
designs. No matter how clever your idea, the chances are someone has  
created a very similar logo. Why is that? We’re all surrounded by the  
same influences, exposed to the same shapes, forms and patterns. With  
the importance of branding in the marketplace, and thousands of  
designers working on similar projects, it’s obvious ideas will, from  
time-to-time, look almost identical.


We welcome your feedback.

Diolch / Thanks

Richard Meredith
Twist Systems Limited | Design Develop Promote

T - 01269 823508
Registered in Wales. Company No: 5825181.

www.twistsystems.co.uk  |  www.twistlocal.co.uk

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Re: Debian Logo stoled

[Ben Finney]

Lars Wirzenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 su, 2008-10-26 kello 09:24 +0200, Kadath kirjoitti:
  Checkout this website, it looks like they steal Debian logotype.
  http://www.pure-organic-baby-food.co.uk/
 
 It's not an exact copy of the Debian logo

I agree that it doesn't look like a derivative work as understood by
copyright law. So, I would rule out concerns of copyright violation.

 and Debian does not have a monopoly on swirls. Thus, I think it is
 not a problem.

For this, though, the relevant field is not copyright; it's trademark.

Debian does, IIRC, have a trademark monopoly on the Debian logos; but
I can't find reference to that, so I may be wrong. I'll continue on
the assumption that they *are* trademarks held by SPI.

A trademark is infringed when:

  * a “confusingly similar” mark is used,

  * in relation to products/services similar to those covered by the
trademark.

To my eye, the mark is certainly very similar to the Debian “open use”
logo, and confusingly so. However, the products don't seem to have
anything to do with (what I imagine to be) those covered by the Debian
logo trademark.

My opinion is that this *would* be a trademark violation if the
products being sold were within the field of those the Debian logo
trademark covers. Since they're not, it's clear to me this is not a
case to be concerned about.

It's best to be clear that “they copied it” is completely irrelevant
for the question of whether a logo infringes a trademark.

-- 
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  `\   Stravinskey |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney


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Re: Debian Live (Was: Debian Logo Use)

[Daniel Baumann]

Jérémy Bobbio wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 02:56:51AM +0200, Michael Banck wrote:
 Maybe debian-live could coordinate with d-i to release some beta*
 snapshots of the testing distribution which are known to work.

that's not actually a problem. the only overlapping thing is the kernel
and live-installer, wheras the latter is almost but not quite ready for
prime-time. apart from that, -live images and d-i images can be released
completely independent.

 The debian-installer team is already lacking enough dedicated people to
 properly answer all its bug reports [1].  More releases (of any kinds)
 that would not have been fully tested would mean more reports.  As this
 would be on top of all other d-i duties, I strongly doubt that it would
 be a good idea.

when d-i beta2 is there, it would be nice to have /combined/ -live
images (that is a live image with normal d-i netinstall on it). they
could be released one day after beta2 release is on the mirrors. as the
d-i part on those images do not differ from the normal d-i images, i
don't see any additional burden for d-i team.

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Re: Debian Logo Use

[Daniel Baumann]

Will Kaiser wrote:
 They only have Etch images
 available (at least last I checked) and we're working with Lenny and Sid.

no more true; lenny and sid initial sync from last friday has finished,
finally.

 I'm also pretty sure our goals are aligned a bit differently. The
 marketing on the Debian Live CD website doesn't spell out that they are
 targeting Desktop Linux or use as an alternative to derivatives such as
 Ubuntu and friends. We also use a cool but non-standard apt
 configuration. Mainly though, it's the marketing on the live cd project
 that won't work with our primary goal. To appeal to (non-techie) Ubuntu
 users, you pretty much need to use puppets and pictures to explain what
 your distro can do.

both the homepage and 'marketing' are something nobody had yet time to
spend with. if you have time for it, you're more than welcome.

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Re: Debian Logo Use

[Craig Small]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 04:20:33PM -0700, Will Kaiser wrote:
 were to go the latter route, I would be using the Debian swirl for the logo
 and the word debi in the name. I won't do either of those without the
 blessing of the Debian project and am willing to modify my project plans to
 an extent if you think we can negotiate. You may be asking why not just use
 your own name/logo?. Well, this really isn't a true distribution. It's
 just a slightly customized Debian install and we want people to know that.
I think they're too similiar.  Someone has already pointed out the URLs
for the logo and trademark sites.

To me you have two problems with using debi and the swirl logo. The
first is yes you may run foul of the law doing this.  What SPI would do
is, probably at this point, theoretical but there is certainly a chance
of trouble.

The second problem is more likely and possibly more damaging.  Some
people will interpret what you are doing as trying to pass off your
distribution as the real Debian project. They will then view your
project in a negative light.  It may be someone withing Debian, who may
be less likely to cooperate, or it could be someone outside who then
doesn't use the distribution or worse stil starts some huge flamewar on
some blog somewhere about it.

Then suddenly what you are trying to do appears to be sinister, when all
you're trying to do is get Debian out there to some group of users who
may not of heard of it or would use it. Bad for everyone all round.

If you create a Special Packaging Group distribution with a smiling
hamster in a kilt (or whatever it is called and looks) that mentions it
uses Debian then that whole potiential negative press goes away.

I would say using your own will mean not buying into a lot of headaches
later on.  Good luck on your project, anyone who can get more people
using Free Software in general and Debian (derivative or not) is a good
thing in my opinion.

 - Craig
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Debian Live (Was: Debian Logo Use)

[Lucas Nussbaum]

On 14/04/08 at 18:54 -0500, Michael Shuler wrote:
 On 04/14/2008 06:20 PM, Will Kaiser wrote:
 1) Provide a free installable live cd of Debian Lenny/Sid

 Have you considered joining the Debian Live project?
 http://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/

 2) Provide an immediately usable copy of Debian with some of the more  
 daunting post-install tasks done already
 3) Provide a means to demo Debian as a viable Desktop Linux alternative
 4) Give users that would otherwise choose a derivative (like Ubuntu) a  
 good reason not to
 5) Do all of this while staying as close to the Debian core and default 
 desktop installation as possible

 All covered by the Debian Live project.  ;)

While Debian Live is really nice, some things could be improved about
it. Each time I wanted to use it, I ran into an issue that required
going to IRC to ask how to work around the problem (the problem was
always already known).

It would really be a good thing to have tested snapshots (in addition
to the daily builds, which are not guaranteed to work AFAIK), so people
could just download images, write them to an USB stick, and enjoy. We
don't need to have perfectly up-to-date tested snapshots. Updating them
every 2-3 months would clearly be enough.
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Re: Debian Live (Was: Debian Logo Use)

[Daniel Baumann]

Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
 While Debian Live is really nice, some things could be improved about
 it. Each time I wanted to use it, I ran into an issue that required
 going to IRC to ask how to work around the problem (the problem was
 always already known).

as you know, debian testing and unstable are in flux and depends heavily
on the maintainers ability to fix core packages for debian-live (e.g.
kernel-modules). if those are broken, debian-live is broken.

 It would really be a good thing to have tested snapshots (in addition
 to the daily builds, which are not guaranteed to work AFAIK), so people
 could just download images, write them to an USB stick, and enjoy. We
 don't need to have perfectly up-to-date tested snapshots. Updating them
 every 2-3 months would clearly be enough.

see ml; images are back on live.d.n, whereas *-builds/ are autobuilds
and release/ are manually tested images (though release is currently
rsyncing in).

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Re: Debian Live (Was: Debian Logo Use)

[Lucas Nussbaum]

On 15/04/08 at 10:51 +0200, Daniel Baumann wrote:
 Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
  While Debian Live is really nice, some things could be improved about
  it. Each time I wanted to use it, I ran into an issue that required
  going to IRC to ask how to work around the problem (the problem was
  always already known).
 
 as you know, debian testing and unstable are in flux and depends heavily
 on the maintainers ability to fix core packages for debian-live (e.g.
 kernel-modules). if those are broken, debian-live is broken.
 
  It would really be a good thing to have tested snapshots (in addition
  to the daily builds, which are not guaranteed to work AFAIK), so people
  could just download images, write them to an USB stick, and enjoy. We
  don't need to have perfectly up-to-date tested snapshots. Updating them
  every 2-3 months would clearly be enough.
 
 see ml; images are back on live.d.n, whereas *-builds/ are autobuilds
 and release/ are manually tested images (though release is currently
 rsyncing in).

Oh ok, release/ was empty when I wrote that mail. Great news, thank you
:-)
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Re: Debian Logo Use

[Gunnar Wolf]

Will Kaiser dijo [Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 09:44:05PM -0700]:
 (...)
 I'm also pretty sure our goals are aligned a bit differently. The marketing
 on the Debian Live CD website doesn't spell out that they are targeting
 Desktop Linux or use as an alternative to derivatives such as Ubuntu and
 friends. We also use a cool but non-standard apt configuration. Mainly
 though, it's the marketing on the live cd project that won't work with our
 primary goal. To appeal to (non-techie) Ubuntu users, you pretty much need
 to use puppets and pictures to explain what your distro can do.

Umh... I know this will sound quite boring to you - But I (and I
guess, many of the Debian people) do not like the idea of presenting
testing/unstable snapshots as something ready for the end-user to
install. Hey, if they want unstable software, why not try
Ubuntu?/joke 

I understand you have your own motivations, and I know our testing is
more workable and more stable than many official distributions... But
anyway, Debian releases _are_ stable, and presenting Debiwhatever as a
testing snapshot won't do much good to Debian's reputation - known for
being anal about stability.

Greetings,

-- 
Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244
PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23
Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973  F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF


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Re: Debian Logo Use

[Mario Spinthiras]

Debian on the desktop? It's called Ubuntu!

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Nicosia , Cyprus
Blog: http://www.spinthiras.net
Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype: smario125

Re: Debian Logo Use

[Chris Andrew]

I agree with this.  If something unstable is going to be based on
Debian, then I think a different (non-Debian) name should be used.

Chris.

On 15/04/2008, Gunnar Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Will Kaiser dijo [Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 09:44:05PM -0700]:
   (...)
   I'm also pretty sure our goals are aligned a bit differently. The marketing
   on the Debian Live CD website doesn't spell out that they are targeting
   Desktop Linux or use as an alternative to derivatives such as Ubuntu and
   friends. We also use a cool but non-standard apt configuration. Mainly
   though, it's the marketing on the live cd project that won't work with our
   primary goal. To appeal to (non-techie) Ubuntu users, you pretty much need
   to use puppets and pictures to explain what your distro can do.

  Umh... I know this will sound quite boring to you - But I (and I
  guess, many of the Debian people) do not like the idea of presenting
  testing/unstable snapshots as something ready for the end-user to
  install. Hey, if they want unstable software, why not try
  Ubuntu?/joke

  I understand you have your own motivations, and I know our testing is
  more workable and more stable than many official distributions... But
  anyway, Debian releases _are_ stable, and presenting Debiwhatever as a
  testing snapshot won't do much good to Debian's reputation - known for
  being anal about stability.

  Greetings,

  --
  Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244
  PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23
  Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973  F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF



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Reasons why you may want to try GNU/Linux:

http://www.getgnulinux.org/

A great GNU/Linux distro:

http://wiki.gnewsense.org/


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Re: Debian Logo Use

[Yves-Alexis Perez]

On mar, 2008-04-15 at 20:48 +0300, Mario Spinthiras wrote:
 Debian on the desktop? It's called Ubuntu!
plonk.
-- 
Yves-Alexis


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Re: Debian Logo Use

[Andreas Schuldei]

* Gunnar Wolf ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [080415 19:45]:
 Umh... I know this will sound quite boring to you - But I (and I
 guess, many of the Debian people) do not like the idea of presenting
 testing/unstable snapshots as something ready for the end-user to
 install. Hey, if they want unstable software, why not try
 Ubuntu?/joke 

i dont think that is a reasonable approach. if testing quality
is good enough and useful to people why would you hide away that
it is debian under the hood by rebranding it? Why deny debian a
good marketing opportunity where debian or debi can be found
in other places then the debian/control file? 

I am in favour of using debian prominently for products derived
from debian. the knoppix, xandros and ubunut effect should not
become the rule but rather the exception.

 I understand you have your own motivations, and I know our testing is
 more workable and more stable than many official distributions... But
 anyway, Debian releases _are_ stable, and presenting Debiwhatever as a
 testing snapshot won't do much good to Debian's reputation - known for
 being anal about stability.

I dont agree here. there is a distribution testing, we make it
available, it is from debian. So if people want to use it, let
them and make it easy for them. it is their risk and they are
grown up. It provides a lot of value, too: You get the most up to
date software at an unparallelt stability, all the time, at no
monatary cost. In my oppinion we should stop telling people NOT
to use it but do the opposite. whoever needs a cutting edge
distribution and loves upgrading real frequently is destined for
testing in my oppinion.  here upgrading works, even!

There is a psychological problem in recommending a distro called
testing as it implies lower quality, though. I would suggest to call it
something fun and inspiring like perpetual-upgrade or so.

/andreas


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Re: Debian Logo Use

[Jonas Smedegaard]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:06:45PM +0200, Andreas Schuldei wrote:
* Gunnar Wolf ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [080415 19:45]:
 Umh... I know this will sound quite boring to you - But I (and I 
 guess, many of the Debian people) do not like the idea of presenting 
 testing/unstable snapshots as something ready for the end-user to 
 install. Hey, if they want unstable software, why not try 
 Ubuntu?/joke

i dont think that is a reasonable approach. if testing quality
is good enough and useful to people why would you hide away that
it is debian under the hood by rebranding it? Why deny debian a
good marketing opportunity where debian or debi can be found
in other places then the debian/control file? 

I believe that you won't upset or confuse anyone if you...

  - Call it Debian only if it is indeed (some subset of) Debian.
  - Call it based on Debian if some but not all is Debian.
  - Call it stable only if all is from the current stable release.


See also the recent thread at debian-custom...

  - Jonas

- -- 
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

  - Enden er nær: http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm
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=GAYF
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Re: Debian Live (Was: Debian Logo Use)

[Michael Banck]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:51:56AM +0200, Daniel Baumann wrote:
 Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
  While Debian Live is really nice, some things could be improved about
  it. Each time I wanted to use it, I ran into an issue that required
  going to IRC to ask how to work around the problem (the problem was
  always already known).
 
 as you know, debian testing and unstable are in flux and depends heavily
 on the maintainers ability to fix core packages for debian-live (e.g.
 kernel-modules). if those are broken, debian-live is broken.

Maybe debian-live could coordinate with d-i to release some beta*
snapshots of the testing distribution which are known to work.  I guess
the kernel needs to be at least similarly working for both, and maybe
the Debian project should pay more attention to debian-live breakage
during the days building up to a new (d-i) beta release.


Michael


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Debian Logo Use

[Will Kaiser]

Hello,

My name is Will and I am working on a project aimed to help promote Debian
on the desktop. We've been pretty quiet about the project, so our presence
isn't really known on the internet yet. We will probably fly under the radar
until later this year. Even then, who really knows. Our target go live at
this point is 6/2008, but we may go sooner based on the outcome of some
final testing.

The reason I am contacting you is that I need to decide between two names,
and two logos. One set of name/logo are mine. The other set are yours. If I
were to go the latter route, I would be using the Debian swirl for the logo
and the word debi in the name. I won't do either of those without the
blessing of the Debian project and am willing to modify my project plans to
an extent if you think we can negotiate. You may be asking why not just use
your own name/logo?. Well, this really isn't a true distribution. It's
just a slightly customized Debian install and we want people to know that.

The main project goals are:

1) Provide a free installable live cd of Debian Lenny/Sid
2) Provide an immediately usable copy of Debian with some of the more
daunting post-install tasks done already
3) Provide a means to demo Debian as a viable Desktop Linux alternative
4) Give users that would otherwise choose a derivative (like Ubuntu) a good
reason not to
5) Do all of this while staying as close to the Debian core and default
desktop installation as possible


For the most part, we just want learn about Linux and give back to the
Debian community, from which many others (including ourselves) have taken
from. The main reason I believe our project must be separate from Debian is
that you will probably not be an advocate of some of the software I plan to
include. While we plan on staying very close to the core, we have only been
successful with a non-debian live cd installer.

Our plans for use of the logo are within the logo/name image on our website
and for use as the replacement for the Gnome foot icon on the Applications
menu. Please let me know what types of restrictions we might be facing and
if there are any considerations we need to make on our end.

Re: Debian Logo Use

[Michael Shuler]

(CC'ed since I'm not sure if you are a list subscriber)

On 04/14/2008 06:20 PM, Will Kaiser wrote:
My name is Will and I am working on a project aimed to help promote 
Debian on the desktop. We've been pretty quiet about the project, so our 
presence isn't really known on the internet yet. We will probably fly 
under the radar until later this year. Even then, who really knows. Our 
target go live at this point is 6/2008, but we may go sooner based on 
the outcome of some final testing.


The reason I am contacting you is that I need to decide between two 
names, and two logos. One set of name/logo are mine. The other set are 
yours. If I were to go the latter route, I would be using the Debian 
swirl for the logo and the word debi in the name. I won't do either of 
those without the blessing of the Debian project and am willing to 
modify my project plans to an extent if you think we can negotiate. You 
may be asking why not just use your own name/logo?. Well, this really 
isn't a true distribution. It's just a slightly customized Debian 
install and we want people to know that.


Why reinvent the wheel?


The main project goals are:

1) Provide a free installable live cd of Debian Lenny/Sid


Have you considered joining the Debian Live project?
http://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/

2) Provide an immediately usable copy of Debian with some of the more 
daunting post-install tasks done already

3) Provide a means to demo Debian as a viable Desktop Linux alternative
4) Give users that would otherwise choose a derivative (like Ubuntu) a 
good reason not to
5) Do all of this while staying as close to the Debian core and default 
desktop installation as possible


All covered by the Debian Live project.  ;)

For the most part, we just want learn about Linux and give back to the 
Debian community, from which many others (including ourselves) have 


The best way to contribute would be join an active project, I think.

taken from. The main reason I believe our project must be separate from 
Debian is that you will probably not be an advocate of some of the 
software I plan to include. While we plan on staying very close to the 
core, we have only been successful with a non-debian live cd installer. 


Does this not conflict with #5 above?

Our plans for use of the logo are within the logo/name image on our 
website and for use as the replacement for the Gnome foot icon on the 
Applications menu. Please let me know what types of restrictions we 
might be facing and if there are any considerations we need to make on 
our end.


Refer to the Debian logo licensing on the logos page:
http://www.debian.org/logos/

--
Kind Regards,
Michael


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Re: Debian Logo Use

[Filipus Klutiero]

Please let me know what types of restrictions we might be facing and 
if there are any considerations we need to make on our end.
Michael already pointed you to the Debian Open Use Logo License. You 
cannot use the logo this way.
Additionally, Debian is a trademark. You can see the Trademark 
Licensing Policy on http://www.debian.org/trademark.
The application of the law is subjective, and I'm not a lawyer, but for 
example Microsoft sued Linspire, Inc for using Lindows. Of course, 
they lost pitifully and SPI has less money to waste than Microsoft, but 
on the other hand Debian is not a common noun and your project changes 
the end of the string rather than the start. So I guess you cannot use 
more than the first 4 letters, and I don't know if you can use that much.



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Re: Debian Logo Use

[Will Kaiser]

Yeah, I had actually already looked into the Debian Live CD project.
Unfortunately there is no product available for download at this time that I
can line up with my images for comparison. So, we really have no idea what's
included on those images. They only have Etch images available (at least
last I checked) and we're working with Lenny and Sid.

I'm also pretty sure our goals are aligned a bit differently. The marketing
on the Debian Live CD website doesn't spell out that they are targeting
Desktop Linux or use as an alternative to derivatives such as Ubuntu and
friends. We also use a cool but non-standard apt configuration. Mainly
though, it's the marketing on the live cd project that won't work with our
primary goal. To appeal to (non-techie) Ubuntu users, you pretty much need
to use puppets and pictures to explain what your distro can do.

Thanks for your input. I think our name will be fine if I go with the
alternate choice anyway and still clearly identify our loyalty to the Debian
core. That's the main point of this anyway. We're not trying to start any
fires... just asking questions while trying to support something we love.

Thanks!

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Michael Shuler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 (CC'ed since I'm not sure if you are a list subscriber)

 On 04/14/2008 06:20 PM, Will Kaiser wrote:

  My name is Will and I am working on a project aimed to help promote
  Debian on the desktop. We've been pretty quiet about the project, so our
  presence isn't really known on the internet yet. We will probably fly under
  the radar until later this year. Even then, who really knows. Our target go
  live at this point is 6/2008, but we may go sooner based on the outcome of
  some final testing.
 
  The reason I am contacting you is that I need to decide between two
  names, and two logos. One set of name/logo are mine. The other set are
  yours. If I were to go the latter route, I would be using the Debian swirl
  for the logo and the word debi in the name. I won't do either of those
  without the blessing of the Debian project and am willing to modify my
  project plans to an extent if you think we can negotiate. You may be asking
  why not just use your own name/logo?. Well, this really isn't a true
  distribution. It's just a slightly customized Debian install and we want
  people to know that.
 

 Why reinvent the wheel?

  The main project goals are:
 
  1) Provide a free installable live cd of Debian Lenny/Sid
 

 Have you considered joining the Debian Live project?
 http://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/

  2) Provide an immediately usable copy of Debian with some of the more
  daunting post-install tasks done already
  3) Provide a means to demo Debian as a viable Desktop Linux alternative
  4) Give users that would otherwise choose a derivative (like Ubuntu) a
  good reason not to
  5) Do all of this while staying as close to the Debian core and default
  desktop installation as possible
 

 All covered by the Debian Live project.  ;)

  For the most part, we just want learn about Linux and give back to the
  Debian community, from which many others (including ourselves) have
 

 The best way to contribute would be join an active project, I think.

  taken from. The main reason I believe our project must be separate from
  Debian is that you will probably not be an advocate of some of the software
  I plan to include. While we plan on staying very close to the core, we have
  only been successful with a non-debian live cd installer.
 

 Does this not conflict with #5 above?

  Our plans for use of the logo are within the logo/name image on our
  website and for use as the replacement for the Gnome foot icon on the
  Applications menu. Please let me know what types of restrictions we might be
  facing and if there are any considerations we need to make on our end.
 

 Refer to the Debian logo licensing on the logos page:
 http://www.debian.org/logos/

 --
 Kind Regards,
 Michael

Re: Debian Logo Use

[Yves-Alexis Perez]

On lun, 2008-04-14 at 21:44 -0700, Will Kaiser wrote:
 Yeah, I had actually already looked into the Debian Live CD project.
 Unfortunately there is no product available for download at this time
 that I can line up with my images for comparison. So, we really have
 no idea what's included on those images. They only have Etch images
 available (at least last I checked) and we're working with Lenny and
 Sid. 

The debian-live goal is not to have already-generated images,  but to
give people (including you and your project) a way to generate custom
images really fast.
 
 I'm also pretty sure our goals are aligned a bit differently. The
 marketing on the Debian Live CD website doesn't spell out that they
 are targeting Desktop Linux or use as an alternative to derivatives
 such as Ubuntu and friends. We also use a cool but non-standard apt
 configuration. Mainly though, it's the marketing on the live cd
 project that won't work with our primary goal. To appeal to
 (non-techie) Ubuntu users, you pretty much need to use puppets and
 pictures to explain what your distro can do. 

Yeah but in your case, debian-live would (have) help(ed) you to build
your project by not taking care of how the cd should boot, in various
environment, how to build the cd itself, etc.

Take a look at the project, it can be really helpful. I already used a
debian-live with the 3 main desktop environments on a demo box without
hard drive, for Solutions Linux 2008.

Cheers,
-- 
Yves-Alexis


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Re: Debian logo

[Marc Haber]

On Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 09:26:38PM +0100, Jakub Daniel wrote:
 I wonder if i can use logo of Debian with my website (dedicated to my
 program that is designed to run under Debian distribution of GNU/Linux) to
 let the users know what system it is meant to be run on.

See http://www.debian.org/logos/ (google: debian logo license, first
hit)

Greetings
Marc

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Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 3221 2323190


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Re: Debian logo

[Frank Lichtenheld]

On Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 09:26:38PM +0100, Jakub Daniel wrote:
 I wonder if i can use logo of Debian with my website (dedicated to my
 program that is designed to run under Debian distribution of GNU/Linux) to
 let the users know what system it is meant to be run on.
 
 The website is not linked from outside yet, I await your approval to use the
 logo. There is nothing else on the website nor there was used anything non
 GNU to make the application and website. No need to mention that its non
 profit project.
 
 http://bunch.nf-soft.cz/
 
 Please, feel free to look at the project. (It's the first project of mine so
 don't expect anything special :).)

http://www.debian.org/logos/

Gruesse,
-- 
Frank Lichtenheld [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www: http://www.djpig.de/


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Re: Debian Logo removed from the box

[Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw)]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 03/30/2007 10:48 PM, Kevin Mark wrote:
 Is the product or service related to an operating system? 

It's a software to manage photos.


 Would a person confuse their product with ours? 

Well, the person that reported the possible violation
was unsure about the relation of Debian and GTSDigital, he
wrote to ask about permission to use Debian Logo.

My guess is that considering the confusion of Trademark
and Copyright Laws, the reporter was trying to let us know
about a possible violation, probably this was the interpretation
of our logo being a registered trademark or protected material.


 Also, I have read from other DDs that
 our logo is easy to create using common graphics tools.

Yes it is, a while ago somebody posted a step-by-step to
recreate it. This time in special the colors and shape were
identical and the GTSDigital was quickly to say that they don't
want any problems.

Anyway, just to let it clear, I did not contact GTSDigital,
I just translated the original message from pt_BR to en_US, and for
some unknown reason to me, GTSDigital people contacted us reporting
the logo removal from their product.


Kind regards,

- --
Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw)
Debian. Freedom to code. Code to freedom!
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Debian Logo removed from the box (was: Re: Retirado o box do DEBIAN)

[Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw)]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Peterson (GTS Digital), a resposta em português está logo abaixo.


To debian-project, (in en_US)

On 03/30/2007 03:20 PM, GTS DIGITAL - Softwares para fotografia digital wrote:
 Writing in English
  
 Srs. Ja was removed the box of the Debian…. we ask for excuses, but nao
 we sabiamos that she was patented this box that we tinhamos used in our
 site… We will be disposicao to clarify the misunderstanding. Without more….

Ok, I will just make make some context.

A while ago, we were [1]contacted about the use and licence of
our logo, I [2]replied to the question. GTS Digital was using our logo
on their products and with this message they are apologizing and telling
us that the log was removed from their product. (Translation below).

  1. http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2007/03/msg3.html
  2. http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2007/03/msg00022.html


 Writing in Portuguese
 Srs.
 Ja foi retirado a caixa do Debian  pedimos desculpas, mas nao
 sabiamos que era patenteada essa caixa que tinhamos usado em nosso site...
 Estaremos a disposicao para esclarecer o mal entendido..
 Sem mais

I'm just translating it once again:

Ladies and gentlemen,
The Debian box was removed ... we apologize, but we didn't know
that the box we used in our site was patented ... We are
available to clarify the misunderstood...

I'm just explaining to them a few things in Brazilian Portuguese
about the Debian name and logo. I'm also saying thanks for them because
they removed the logo and acked Debian relation with the swirl.

No entanto, apenas pra deixar claro, não havia relação de patente
sobre a caixa em si, apenas de marca registrada sobre o nome Debian e a
relação que o logo da espiral (swirl) estabele com o Projeto.


 Equipe GTS DIGITAL
 O seu portal da fotografia digital
 www.gtsdigital.com.br


Peterson,

A marca Debian é registrada no Brasil e o logo é protegido em
vários países do mundo. O ponto inicial era que o logotipo usado era
muito similar ao do Debian (e ao que tudo indica era o mesmo). Nosso
logotipo possui algumas restrições de uso como você pode ver em:

http://www.debian.org/logos


Agradecemos o cuidado de corrigir o mal entendido e agradecemos
o contato para nos dar maiores informações e detalhes e nos deixar
avisados sobre a mudança.


Abraço,

- --
Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw)
Debian. Freedom to code. Code to freedom!
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Re: Debian Logo removed from the box (was: Re: Retirado o box do DEBIAN)

[Kevin Mark]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 08:48:19PM -0300, Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw) 
wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Peterson (GTS Digital), a resposta em português está logo abaixo.
 
 
 To debian-project, (in en_US)
 
 On 03/30/2007 03:20 PM, GTS DIGITAL - Softwares para fotografia digital wrote:
  Writing in English
   
  Srs. Ja was removed the box of the Debian…. we ask for excuses, but nao
  we sabiamos that she was patented this box that we tinhamos used in our
  site… We will be disposicao to clarify the misunderstanding. Without more….
 
   Ok, I will just make make some context.
 
   A while ago, we were [1]contacted about the use and licence of
 our logo, I [2]replied to the question. GTS Digital was using our logo
 on their products and with this message they are apologizing and telling
 us that the log was removed from their product. (Translation below).
 
   1. http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2007/03/msg3.html
   2. http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2007/03/msg00022.html
 
 
  Writing in Portuguese
  Srs.
  Ja foi retirado a caixa do Debian  pedimos desculpas, mas nao
  sabiamos que era patenteada essa caixa que tinhamos usado em nosso site...
  Estaremos a disposicao para esclarecer o mal entendido..
  Sem mais
 
   I'm just translating it once again:
 
 Ladies and gentlemen,
   The Debian box was removed ... we apologize, but we didn't know
   that the box we used in our site was patented ... We are
   available to clarify the misunderstood...
 
   I'm just explaining to them a few things in Brazilian Portuguese
 about the Debian name and logo. I'm also saying thanks for them because
 they removed the logo and acked Debian relation with the swirl.
 
Is the product or service related to an operating system? Would a person
confuse their product with ours? Also, I have read from other DDs that
our logo is easy to create using common graphics tools.

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Debian Logo use/abuse: GTSDigital (was: Re: Copyright do Debian)

[Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw)]

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Marcelo, sua resposta está logo abaixo.

Debian Project,

Marcelo is asking if the Debian Logo is under GPL, because there
is a site using out logo on a CD and Box for a product called GTS Digital,
he also pointed to the site: http://www.gtsdigital.com.br/

Perhaps somebody from Debian Legal could advise about the above
site/logo? It is a Brazilian WebSite, and I can work as a mediator if we
need to contact them.

The reason of why Marcelo is asking about the license is the fact
that he wants to use our logo in his site to link to Debian Project. I'm
explaining to him about the license change (not sure if it is already done)
and also telling him that is ok to link in the way he want.



On 03/01/2007 12:32 PM, Marcelo Insabralde wrote:
 Bom dia,

Olá! :)

Antes de mais nada, a debian-project é uma lista onde deve-se
trocar mensagens em inglês. Esta resposta vai com cópia também para a
debian-legal que cuida de aspectos do licenciamento dentro do Debian e
para o Líder do Projeto Debian (DPL) que está envolvido com a troca de
licença do logo do Debian.


 Gostaria de saber se o Logo do Debian está disponível sob a GPL, devido
 a um site estar usando o logo em CD e Box de seus produtos, pode ser
 verificado em
 http://www.gtsdigital.com.br/ onde uma suite de aplicativos para imagens
 está usando o referido logotipo.

Eu alertei a debian-legal a respeito como você pode ver acima,
vamos ver o que outros acham e talvez tenhamos que entrar em contato
com eles, o logo do Debian não é licenciado sob a GPL. Você pode
encontrar mais informações sobre a licença de uso aqui:

http://www.debian.org/logos/index.pt.html



 Gostaria de um retorno sobre a licença do Logo, pois pretendo incluí-lo
 em meu site para usá-lo como link para o vosso site www.debian.org.br
 http://www.debian.org.br.

Posso adiantar que não há problemas em usar Logotipo Debian de
Uso Aberto para fazer referência ao Projeto Debian através de um link
que é o que você está solicitando. ;)


 Desde já agradeço
 User Linux at 1999

Se você não tiver problemas para ler e escrever em inglês,
sinta-se a vontade para contatar diretamente as listas envolvidas,
se precisar de alguma ajuda com as traduções, você pode entrar em
contato com a debian-l10n-portuguese:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-portuguese


Abraço,

- --
Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw)
Debian. Freedom to code. Code to freedom!
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Re: 3D Debian-Logo

[Sam Hocevar]

On Sun, Feb 11, 2007, Andreas Tille wrote:

 I'm seeking for a source of the 3D swirl that was used for instance at
 
 http://www.wordit.com/catalog/images/debian_swirl_mousepad.jpg
 
 prefered as SVG graphics if available, bug reasonable resolution
 (800x600) PNG might do as well.

   It's not very hard to redo it from scratch, using Inkscape's blur and
clip features. 10-minute attempt here: http://zoy.org/~sam/3dlogo.svg

   If you don't find the original source, let me know and I'll make a
more polished one.

Regards,
Sam.
-- 
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Re: 3D Debian-Logo

[Andreas Tille]

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Sam Hocevar wrote:


  It's not very hard to redo it from scratch, using Inkscape's blur and
clip features. 10-minute attempt here: http://zoy.org/~sam/3dlogo.svg

  If you don't find the original source, let me know and I'll make a
more polished one.


Well, I would really like it if you would be able to spend some further
10 minutes (if it is the time scale you are thinking for more polishing)
and if this 3D version could be put at the official Debian Logo page
with a free license.

Unfortunately I'm not that fit in inkscape usage that I could do it
quickly and I would regard it of more general interest.

Many thanks for your help

Andreas.

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3D Debian-Logo

[Andreas Tille]

Hi,

I'm seeking for a source of the 3D swirl that was used for instance at

http://www.wordit.com/catalog/images/debian_swirl_mousepad.jpg

prefered as SVG graphics if available, bug reasonable resolution
(800x600) PNG might do as well.

Thanks

   Andreas.

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http://fam-tille.de


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Re: 3D Debian-Logo

[Alexander Schmehl]

Hi!

* Andreas Tille [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070211 20:42]:

 I'm seeking for a source of the 3D swirl that was used for instance at
 http://www.wordit.com/catalog/images/debian_swirl_mousepad.jpg
 prefered as SVG graphics if available, bug reasonable resolution
 (800x600) PNG might do as well.

Those where produced by LinuxLand[1].  You might want to ask there.


Yours sincerely,
  Alexander

Links:
 1: http://www.linuxland.de/

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Re: Debian Logo Use

[Frans Pop]

On Thursday 11 January 2007 00:24, Tony Hunt wrote:
 Ive seen this web page a few times and could not help wonder what the
 relationship was to the Debian project. Is this the Debian Logo being
 used ? Maybee someone at Debian should look at this ..
 http://www.elcom.gr/sv2agw/

Unfortunately the Debian swirl is relatively easy to create and quite a 
few people seem to get basically the same idea (I recently came across 
our logo in noodle soup...).

Unless the logo is the exact same shape and/or is used for a service that 
could be confused with Debian, there is no real conflict of interest or 
basis for legal action.

In this case I don't see that we need to take any action. Thanks for 
alerting us to this page though.

Cheers,
FJP


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Re: Debian Logo Use

[Linas Žvirblis]

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Frans Pop wrote:

 Unfortunately the Debian swirl is relatively easy to create and quite a 
 few people seem to get basically the same idea (I recently came across 
 our logo in noodle soup...).

Maybe setting up a gallery of those would be a fun thing to do?
http://wiki.debian.org/DebianLogoMisunderstandings anyone?

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Re: Debian Logo Use

[Kevin Mark]

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Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:31:00AM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
 On Thursday 11 January 2007 00:24, Tony Hunt wrote:
  Ive seen this web page a few times and could not help wonder what the
  relationship was to the Debian project. Is this the Debian Logo being
  used ? Maybee someone at Debian should look at this ..
  http://www.elcom.gr/sv2agw/
 
 Unfortunately the Debian swirl is relatively easy to create and quite a 
 few people seem to get basically the same idea (I recently came across 
 our logo in noodle soup...).
 
 Unless the logo is the exact same shape and/or is used for a service that 
 could be confused with Debian, there is no real conflict of interest or 
 basis for legal action.
 
 In this case I don't see that we need to take any action. Thanks for 
 alerting us to this page though.
 
 Cheers,
 FJP
Hi Frans,

I have read a few comments like yours over the last year, like the one
about the Russian cellphone shop. Would it be helpfull to include this
short paragraph to make it clear that this alone is not reason enought
for Debian to take action against someone and thus avoid people asking
about these incidents needlessly.

... 
Unfortunately the Debian swirl is relatively easy to create and
quite a few people seem to get basically the same idea (I recently came
across our logo in noodle soup...).
 
Unless the logo is the exact same shape and/or is used for a service
that could be confused with Debian, there is no real conflict of
interest or basis for legal action.
...

I suppose a wishlist bug referencing this email against the
www.debian.org would be sufficient?

The logo web page does not include anything like this.
cheers,
Kev
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Debian Logo Use

[Tony Hunt]

Ive seen this web page a few times and could not help wonder what the
relationship was to the Debian project. Is this the Debian Logo being used ?
Maybee someone at Debian should look at this ..
http://www.elcom.gr/sv2agw/

Tony  Eva Hunt  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Tattoos (was: debian logo on commercial of the big mobilephones shops network)

[Amaya]

Roland Mas wrote:
   This swirl?  Yeah, I got it in the early days of Debian.  I missed
 the chicken by a few months, though.  Oh well, it probably doesn't
 mean a thing to you youngsters anyway.

I still liked the chiken better :)
And there's plenty of skin in my body for as many logos as may come.

Lars, will you finally get away from not getting that tattoo if we don't
release in time? ;)

-- 
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 : :' :-- Emma Goldman
 `. `'   Proudly running Debian GNU/Linux (unstable)
   `- www.amayita.com  www.malapecora.com  www.chicasduras.com


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Re: debian logo on commercial of the big mobilephones shops network

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Sunday 26 November 2006 12:30, Evgeniy Ivanov wrote:

 [quote]
 I don't see how some russian company using some swirl for advertising
 endangers the freedom of Debian.
 [/quote]

 They are big and has enough money to create new logo, but not to use
 Debian logo for their needs. This time they use swirl, tomorrow they
 would make advertisment with tux... Some days after people would think,
 that Debian is a part of these shops (their intelligent property!).

Again, what others have already said:  it is not the Debian swirl.  It is 
very likely that whoever created this swirl has not even heard about 
Debian.

The Debian swirl was created with a few - apparently very obvious - steps in 
a popular graphics package (which one?), starting with a default brush 
stroke.  So anybody owning this particular graphics package can easily 
create a similar logo.  Both brush strokes and swirls are not that 
uncommon...

This was discussed in the past already.

Time for a more unique logo?  OTOH I quite like the swirl.  And then there 
are the tattooed people who probably would like the logo to stay the same 
for another few years...

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
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-- George Bernard Shaw


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Re: Re: debian logo on commercial of the big mobilephones shops network

[Evgeniy Ivanov]

I hadn't been subscribed, so I quoted messages. Now I made subscription,  
it is the lost quoted message :) Sorry fo it.


[quote]

Who is a Debian manager? Apart from the fact that Debian has noone that
really can act as a legal represantive in Russia, we have no real
trademark policy at the moment.

[/quote]

I ment any letters from debian project team. I may act as a legal  
represantive in Russia, if you will allow it to me. There is no policy but  
may be it's time to begin creating it?


[quote]
I don't see how some russian company using some swirl for advertising
endangers the freedom of Debian.
[/quote]

They are big and has enough money to create new logo, but not to use  
Debian logo for their needs. This time they use swirl, tomorrow they would  
make advertisment with tux... Some days after people would think, that  
Debian is a part of these shops (their intelligent property!).


--
Evgeniy Ivanov (aka powerfox).


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Re: Fwd: debian logo on commercial of the big mobilephones shops network

[Zak B. Elep]

On 11/26/06, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

This is not the Debian Swirl. Though it was probably created with the
same or a very similiar tool (I guess a later version), there are some
subtle differences. Most of them are seen if you look at the inner part
of the swirl.
Please compare http://www.us.debian.org/logos/openlogo-nd-100.jpg with
the URIs that were posted.


Hmmm, it looks like the other logo is a further `twist' of the Debian
logo, moving clockwise (or my imagination is running wild again ;P.)
As such, that logo has a very strong likeness to the Debian logo;
IANAL but I think any person familiar with the Debian logo will
definitely recognize the `sameness' in that other logo.

Cheers,

Zakame

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Re: debian logo on commercial of the big mobilephones shops network

[Linas Žvirblis]

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Evgeniy Ivanov wrote:

 Here are the links:

[...]

 The sign is something like: hot line of support, for our clients...
 telephone number, name of the shops network

These seem to be accessible to members only, so I uploaded the files here:

 http://home.gna.org/qemulaunch/nothing-to-see-here/deblogo01.jpg
 http://home.gna.org/qemulaunch/nothing-to-see-here/deblogo02.jpg

It seems that there really is a Debian logo next to large red letters.
Also note a light yellow swirl in the background.

I checked their official website (http://www.euroset.ru/), and did not
manage to locate anything Debian-related. The site that seems to be the
English version (http://www.euroset.com/) requires Flash player, so I
did not check that.

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Fwd: debian logo on commercial of the big mobilephones shops network

[Evgeniy Ivanov]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Evgeniy Ivanov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 25.11.2006 16:55
Subject: Re: debian logo on commercial of the big mobilephones shops network
To: Linas Žvirblis [EMAIL PROTECTED]


2006/11/25, Linas Žvirblis [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

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Evgeniy Ivanov wrote:

 Here are the links:

[...]

 The sign is something like: hot line of support, for our clients...
 telephone number, name of the shops network

These seem to be accessible to members only, so I uploaded the files here:

 http://home.gna.org/qemulaunch/nothing-to-see-here/deblogo01.jpg
 http://home.gna.org/qemulaunch/nothing-to-see-here/deblogo02.jpg

It seems that there really is a Debian logo next to large red letters.
Also note a light yellow swirl in the background.


I didn't note it.


I checked their official website (http://www.euroset.ru/), and did not
manage to locate anything Debian-related. The site that seems to be the
English version (http://www.euroset.com/) requires Flash player, so I
did not check that.


I checked and didn't found logo too. But these advertisments are in
the every shop. It makes me unhappy to see how they use debian logo in
their commercial needs.

Re: Fwd: debian logo on commercial of the big mobilephones shops network

[Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt]

Evgeniy Ivanov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  http://home.gna.org/qemulaunch/nothing-to-see-here/deblogo01.jpg
  http://home.gna.org/qemulaunch/nothing-to-see-here/deblogo02.jpg
 It seems that there really is a Debian logo next to large red letters.
 Also note a light yellow swirl in the background.
 I didn't note it.

This is not the Debian Swirl. Though it was probably created with the
same or a very similiar tool (I guess a later version), there are some
subtle differences. Most of them are seen if you look at the inner part
of the swirl. 
Please compare http://www.us.debian.org/logos/openlogo-nd-100.jpg with
the URIs that were posted.

Anyway, we already know that the Debian logo isn't unique, it can be
easily recreated by using well distributed software and quite common
tools. Though it is not nice to see that something *very* similiar is
used to advertise, there really isn't much we can do it about.

Marc
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debian logo on commercial of the big mobilephones shops network

[Evgeniy Ivanov]

Hi! I had written this on debian-policy, but one of members told to post here.
It is the story of my letters:


Evgeniy Ivanov wrote:

 Hi! I live in the second capital of Russian Federation -
 Saint-Petersburg. Some time ago one of the largest mobilephones shops
 network made an advertisement of their support with debian logo. There

Interesting. Could you tell a bit more on what they actually do? Are
they selling something Debian-related?



They sell mobiles, mp3-players and diffrent stuff for these devices.
They are not involved in computer soft selling.



 are about 200-300 their shops in my city and I think about 500 in
 Moscow (capital). So, many people see it and don't know that it is
 Debian property, but not of these shops.

I am not sure I understand you. Are they using the Debian logo as one of
their own?



I think, yes: there is nothing about debian on their advertisment.
Debian logo and company name and something else, but not reference to
Debian project.



 I can't get anything on their web, so I may get this paper and scan if
 it is important.

It would certainly be interesting to see it, please do. Although you
should not post it directly to the list. Upload it somewhere and post a
link instead. Also feel free to post it to me privately. Yes, I can read
Russian.



Ок, I will try to get it. Tomorrow or the day after tomorrow I will
send it to you. Their ifficial colors are yellow and red, maybe that
is wgy they use swirl-logo.



P.S. This mailing list is for discussing Debian Policy (an important
document on how things should work in Debian) related things. Posts like
this one should go to debian-project or debian-devel in the future.



Ок, thanks. I didn't know - next time I would use these mailing lists.

Here are the links:

http://forum.vingrad.ru/act-Attach/type/post/id-936265.html

The sign is something like: hot line of support, for our clients...
telephone number, name of the shops network

http://forum.vingrad.ru/act-Attach/type/post/id-936266.html

P.S. I'm not subscribed on this mailing list, so please answer me on my mail.

Best regards, powerfox (Evgeniy Ivanov)ю