Re: RE: Re: Approved (KMM1415175V92816L0KM)

[Dadiezangel03]

Hello
How are you doing? i am doing good but i am having some problems with my yahoo account. i want to delete my yahoo account. How do i do that? I have tried to do it by following the instructions but it says page can not be displayed. if you could get back with me asap it would greatly appreciated
  Thanks
    Ms. Kelly
 

Re: Bogus reply-to

[Monique Y. Mudama]

On 2004-08-08, Tim Connors penned:
> "Monique Y. Mudama" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said on Sun, 8 Aug 2004
> 10:05:12 -0600:
>
> I suggest that gmane is the wrong tool for the job - I;ve heard plenty
> of people say it sucks for mailing lists, and this appears to be
> another case (actually, google seem to be really doing a good job at
> making sucky UIs and not implementing proper protocols - witness
> google groups 2 and how it doesn't set and preserve "References:"; but
> I digress). But anyway...

It sure sounds like you're claiming that the fact that gmane delivers
messages through the news protocol rather than email is a flaw, rather
than the whole point.  It's not a flaw; it's how I want things to work.
The flaw is in sending dupes when I only want one, even though I
specifically request no copies in my headers.  I used to have a request
in my signature not to cc me; not only did it not work, but I got a
bunch of people telling me that this was unnecessary, as these miracle
headers would fix things right up.  So I moved to the headers, and they
didn't work.

> I too use the wrong tool for the job; I am reading this through
> news://linux.debian.user (newsgroups are so much more convenient that
> mailing lists, particularly since I already read a dozen newsfroups),
> which preserves every header, so I can munge them back into something
> sensible, *except* it doesn't preserve Reply-To (for your posts, it
> sets "Mail-Copies-To: never", which I use in my script to detect
> people not wanting reply-tos).

Um, no, *I* set mail-copies-to: never.  Actually, I guess I'm not sure
what all happens in processing from gmane to mailing list to that
newsgroup, but I would think that this setting is somehow related to my
original headers?

> Possibly this is why people reply-to you directly.

Because I ask them not to in my headers?  Please explain, cuz I'm not
following you.

> I personally think that policies on mailing lists shouldn't dictate
> things like reply-to (not that this one has been made publicly known
> other than through your rants), because some people prefer to get a
> reply-to (me, for example - reply-to means I can see any responses to
> me straight away without having to wait for the mailing list to do its
> thing), and I think it clutters the list to say "please reply to me".
> Let your mailer do its thing (set your own reply-to[1] as necessary,
> as you do), and hope that everyone respects it.

It's that whole "hope" aspect I have trouble with.  My faith has a
terrible batting average in this regard.

I agree that it clutters the list to request replies, but what are we
supposed to do when people don't respect headers?  

> There's also the issue that differnt mailing lists adopting different
> practices means that no-one can actually keep track of which practice
> is used where, so they just use the one that is most convenient for
> them.

Of course everyone can keep track of these, or get their mail client to
track it for them!  It's just that some people find it more convenient
to waste other people's time than to follow the rules.

> [1] Even if Reply-To is considered harmful
> (http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html), and causes some
> mailers to drop the mailing list off the list of CCs, and will end up
> replying only to your single bogus address.

Your link seems to talk exclusively about lists admins setting reply-to
for the whole list, which isn't the case with my emails:

"The Reply-To header was not invented on a whim. It is there for the
sender of a mail message to use. If you stomp on this header, you can
lose important information."

Is the behavior of dropping the mailing list part of the spec?  I guess
I assumed that a reply-to should only be used, you know, when you're
actually replying.  Was I wrong?

I would love to not set this reply-to and somehow get no copies of d-u
conversation in my inbox.  It just doesn't seem to be possible.
Actually, I'm not yet sure that the reply-to will stop folks from cc'ing
me, but it's something to try.

I'm not trying to be a jerk.  I'm just trying to minimize the amount of
email I get, and when doing things the right way doesn't get the job
done, I start looking for wrong ways that at least give me peace of
mind.

-- 
monique

Ask smart questions, get good answers:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html


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Re: Loading kernel modules at startup

[s. keeling]

Incoming from John Van Lierde:
> 
> I'm trying to get lm_sensors working. I'm at the point where it works when I
> manually load the modules:
> 
>   modprobe i2c_sensor
>   modprobe i2c_piix4
>   modprobe w83781d
> 
> and I can read temperatures and voltages and everything.
> 
> But I'm absolutely baffled as to how to get the modules to load
> automagically at boot. There are a bunch of utilities (some apparently

Run modconf (as root) and turn them on.


-- 
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(*)   http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling 
- -


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Re: Loading kernel modules at startup

[dircha]

John Van Lierde wrote:
But I'm absolutely baffled as to how to get the modules to load
automagically at boot. There are a bunch of utilities (some apparently
obsolescent) and files (all of which seem to say that they are generated and
not to be edited). I've poked through all the man pages that seem relevant,
but it's just not making sense. What the lm_sensors documentation recommends
doesn't fit what I've got.
$ apropos modules
[...]
modules (5)  - kernel modules to load at boot time
[...]
$ man modules
The manual page should come with either the modutils or 
module-init-tools packages.

Is that what you were looking for?
--dircha
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Re: USB Memory

[Glenn Meehan]

On Mon, 2004-08-09 at 05:55, Max wrote:
> On Sunday 08 August 2004 09:34, Glenn Meehan wrote:
> > I'm trying to read some usb memory.  I can read it in windows. I can't
> > read it with debian.
> 
> > also
> > root:/proc/scsi> mount -t vfat /dev/sda1 /mnt/memstick
> > mount: /dev/sda1 is not a valid block device
> 
> > How do I mount the usb filesystem?
> 
> mount -t vfat /dev/sda1 /mnt/memstick
> should work

I got it working.
Not sure what I was doing wrong.
I was using the USB Flash memory howto.


Thanks


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using two vga adapters

[Ritesh Raj Sarraf]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

hi,
I've got an Intel 815e motherboard with On-board VGA. I've also added a
Sis AGP card onto it. Both are supported well by the kernel. I'm using
both kernel 2.4.25 and 2.6.3 on sarge.
Can I use both the vga cards ? Say, in framebuffer modes. One as fb0 and
the other as fb1 ?
At present my system crashes when firing up X on it. Also display only
comes onto the monitor attached to the Sis AGP card. :-(
I have already tried experimenting my xserver configurations with both
the VGA specifics.

Even my Windoze machine crashes as soon as it brings up the GUI.

Will I have to stick to one single card 

TIA

- -- 
Ritesh Raj Sarraf
RESEARCHUT -- http://www.researchut.com
Linux-Nepal -- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-nepal
Gnupg Key ID: 0x04F130BC
"Stealing logic from one person is plagiarism, stealing from many is research".
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Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[John L Fjellstad]

Greg Folkert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Why not just use an IMAP server that has one? Modify settings to taste.
>
> I use courier-imap-ssl, I haven't seen a problem yet. 

Didn't know courier-imap actually let you do autoexpire...  Actually,
right now I'm doing pop on my laptop.  Won't be able to setup an imap
server until next month when I move to my new place...

-- 
John L. Fjellstad
web: http://www.fjellstad.org/  Quis custodiet ipsos custodes


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Re: Bogus reply-to

[Monique Y. Mudama]

On 2004-08-09, Tim Connors penned:
>
> What I am saying, is all of these discussion lists have differnt
> policies.  It's kind of silly expecting people to remember which
> policy belongs to which list, and blasting people when they get it
> wrong.

My understanding is that gmane translates my Mail-Copies-To: never into
the appropriate mail followup header.  I've asked a couple of times if
this is working, and no one has said anything to me, so I assume it is.
In fact:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2004/08/msg00281.html

shows:

# Mail-copies-to: never
# Mail-followup-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Aren't these the vaunted headers?  And yet, I get cc'd, or directly
emailed, all the time.  Either people's clients or broken, or they are.
Either way, the headers don't work.  Not reliably.

My bogus reply-to is an attempt to keep from *having* to blast people
when they get it wrong.  Okay, I don't *have* to blast them, but what am
I supposed to do?  Even a polite request not to email me directly comes
across as heavy-handed.

And no, I really don't think that it's inappropriate to ask that people
keep list policies straight.  If one deals with so many lists that one
can't either remember the policies or somehow use one's client to handle
them, then perhaps one is subscribed to too many lists.

-- 
monique

Ask smart questions, get good answers:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html


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Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[John L Fjellstad]

Brian Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>> > 6. It must have a decent expiry system.
>> 
>> You don't need a mailclient to have a decent expiry system if you are
>> using Maildir.  Since all new mail goes into {MAILBOXNAME}/new and all
>> read mail goes into {MAILBOXNAME}/cur, you can use this script to delete
>> all read mail over a certain date:
>
> That's not necessarily true.  OfflineIMAP puts all mail in cur.

Well, if you were using offlineimap, I would think you would do the
script on the imap server rather than the client.

> Generally, I think you may find "unseen" mail in new, but the MUA will
> move it to cur as soon as it finds it.  It may very well not be read by
> you yet.

Didn't realize that.  The one MUA I'm using, which shall go unmentioned
in case you decide to kick me in the nuts, don't.  Probably shouldn't
have been so sure about it.  

Isn't there a way to check whether a file has been looked at?  Like the
difference between creation time and access time.  Although I'm not sure
the creation time gets changed if a file gets moved from new to cur...

>> find ~/Mail/*/cur -type f -mtime +30 -print0 | xargs -0r rm
>
> I think the following blob be much more reliable:
>
> find ~/Mail/*/cur -type f -mtime +30 -regex ".*:2,.*S" -print0 | xargs -0r rm

Hey, cool..  Thanks for the update...

-- 
John L. Fjellstad
web: http://www.fjellstad.org/  Quis custodiet ipsos custodes


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Auto Reply

[auto-reply]

Thank you for your interest in employment opportunities with Ashley Furniture.  Your 
information has been received.

Should your qualifications match the position you are applying for, we will contact 
you.  If your qualifications are not a match, your resume may be kept on file for 
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-Original Message-
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Sent:   Monday, August 09, 2004 12:15 AM
To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject:MESSAGE COULD NOT BE DELIVERED

Loading kernel modules at startup

[John Van Lierde]

Hi,

I'm trying to get lm_sensors working. I'm at the point where it works when I
manually load the modules:

  modprobe i2c_sensor
  modprobe i2c_piix4
  modprobe w83781d

and I can read temperatures and voltages and everything.

But I'm absolutely baffled as to how to get the modules to load
automagically at boot. There are a bunch of utilities (some apparently
obsolescent) and files (all of which seem to say that they are generated and
not to be edited). I've poked through all the man pages that seem relevant,
but it's just not making sense. What the lm_sensors documentation recommends
doesn't fit what I've got.

It can't be that hard. Is there an example out there somewhere that outlines
the steps to do this? If I can do it once, I'm sure I can figure out the
theory afterwards.

'm using sarge, 2.6.7.1 kernel and lm_sensors 2.8.7.

/icebiker


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Dependencies Problem

[Umar Draz]

hi dear members!
 
  i have question about dependencies. I want to install qmail thats why i need courier-imap and courier-imap-ssl. when i want to install courier-imap i face dependcey of exim but i don't want to install exim.
 
  so please help me how i can ignore dependcies is it possible?
 
thanks & regards
 
Umar Draz
		Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!

Re: How popular is Debian (popularity contest)

[Ritesh Raj Sarraf]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004, George Roman wrote:

>
>
> i never heard about popcon :) and i use debian (woody&sarge&sid) for
> almost 2 years.
>
You should. This is a better way for all of us to figure out the
popularity and usage of debian. And in no way it harms.

>
> On Sun, 8 Aug 2004, William Ballard wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 12:19:54PM +0200, Jaap Haitsma wrote:
> > > Are there only around 1000 debian users on the world (assumption 60% of
> > > them sends reports)
> >
> > Why would you assume that?  I don't use popcon; it's possible that 99.9%
> > of users don't use it.  Who knows?
> >
> >
> > --
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
>
>
>

- -- 
Ritesh Raj Sarraf
RESEARCHUT -- http://www.researchut.com
Linux-Nepal -- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-nepal
Gnupg Key ID: 0x04F130BC
"Stealing logic from one person is plagiarism, stealing from many is research".
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Re: Debian GnuCash packages orphaned

[bob parker]

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:21, William Ballard wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 02:07:31PM +1000, bob parker wrote:
> > On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:20, John Summerfield wrote:
> > > As for the money, I learned to write financial applications in COBOL.
> > > Whoops, it's extremely rusty.
> > > mony PIC S9(11v3) COMP-3.
> > > and in PL/1
> > > money fixed dec(11,3).
> >
> > COBOL, such a beutiful language! If a total overflows the destination
> > field it just chops off the most significant digit. Perfect for Enron and
> > naturally the Pentagon for whom it was originally designed.
>
> Accounting will get a lot easier when native 64-bit ints are more
> widespread.  Then you can just keep six significant digits (up to ten
> thousandth of penny) and do all calcuations as integers scaled by
> 100,000.
>
> I got hit with this when I was doing a job for a major Dutch insurance
> company and had to validate several hundred thousand transactions
> totalling 500 billion guilders and make sure all the accounts matched to
> the "penny."  I couldn't use fake numbers -- too slow.
>
> I did it all in double precision scaled to 12 places or so and made sure
> it matched to "machine precision."  Bit harder than dealing with less
> than $4 billion worth of stuff, which fits in 32 bits.

Money calcs are rather difficult at present. Just wondering how fast or 
otherwise ascii numeric arithmetic ops are. Eg DEC Dibol used ascii numbers 
and was still fairly speedy even on a PDP11 (later model toward the end of 
that product's life).

bob


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Re: How popular is Debian (popularity contest)

[Katipo]

Paul Scott wrote:
A message was just posted to Debian development with the subject:
"Please participate in popularity-contest"
If you are not using popularity-contest it would help the developers 
know your priorities if more of you would install and use it.

Paul Scott
I always have.
I look on it as the opportunity to promote the use of a productive trojan.
A rare breed.
Regards,
David.
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Re: Linux Support Los Angeles

[Alvin Oga]

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004, Kent West wrote:

> Scott Wiseman wrote:
> 
> > http://www.avidware.net
> 
> They really need to get a proof-reader on their home page. Really. After 
> about 16 errors before I got halfway through the page, I gave up. If 
> they want to be considered professionals, they should really "dress the 
> part".

i guess you read their spam ... you suckered me into it too :-)

i don't think a proof-reader will help, since that'd be an outsider
that is NOT on their staff or in their normal where to spend time and
energy

it's easy to go out and buy a cheap suit to "dress and look the part"
but is 100x harder to "implement and support" the hilarious claims being
made on their website

and it seems none of their stuff has anything to do with debian,
at least from the parts of the 1st page i read

c ya
alvin


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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Katipo]

Joey Hess wrote:
 Carl Fink wrote:
> The only real difference from the older boot-floppies is
> autodetection of hardware, which almost works some of the time.
 It works for about 95% of our users based on installation reports. I
 expect that 90% of our users don't bother to file reports -- I've not
 seen any from you.
Many might not have, for the same reason I didn't.
Reports of the installer crew being snowed under by reports.
But I did drop a note off on Debian-boot conveying my positive 
impressions for what they were worth.
Regards,

David.
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Re: Debian GnuCash packages orphaned

[William Ballard]

On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 02:07:31PM +1000, bob parker wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:20, John Summerfield wrote:
> 
> > As for the money, I learned to write financial applications in COBOL.
> > Whoops, it's extremely rusty.
> > mony PIC S9(11v3) COMP-3.
> > and in PL/1
> > money fixed dec(11,3).
> 
> COBOL, such a beutiful language! If a total overflows the destination field 
> it just chops off the most significant digit. Perfect for Enron and naturally 
> the Pentagon for whom it was originally designed.

Accounting will get a lot easier when native 64-bit ints are more 
widespread.  Then you can just keep six significant digits (up to ten 
thousandth of penny) and do all calcuations as integers scaled by 
100,000.

I got hit with this when I was doing a job for a major Dutch insurance 
company and had to validate several hundred thousand transactions 
totalling 500 billion guilders and make sure all the accounts matched to 
the "penny."  I couldn't use fake numbers -- too slow.

I did it all in double precision scaled to 12 places or so and made sure 
it matched to "machine precision."  Bit harder than dealing with less 
than $4 billion worth of stuff, which fits in 32 bits.



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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Katipo]

Paul Johnson wrote:
 Carl Fink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 10:05:51PM +0200, Patrick Donker wrote:
>
>> I hear alot of fuzz about 'the new installer'... Whats so special
>> about it?
>
> The only real difference from the older boot-floppies is
> autodetection of hardware, which almost works some of the time.
 That's not true. debian-installer will also allow for more than just
 the ncurses interface for the but-it-doesn't-have-a-GUI lusers,
 among other things. And hardware detection is getting better...
Definitely is.
Did an install with the Beta 3 a while back, and got auto detection of 
my external USB2 CD/RW Plexwriter 24/10/40U which would have been 
impossible a little while ago.
Regards,

David.
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Re: Debian GnuCash packages orphaned

[bob parker]

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:20, John Summerfield wrote:

> As for the money, I learned to write financial applications in COBOL.
> Whoops, it's extremely rusty.
> mony PIC S9(11v3) COMP-3.
> and in PL/1
> money fixed dec(11,3).

COBOL, such a beutiful language! If a total overflows the destination field 
it just chops off the most significant digit. Perfect for Enron and naturally 
the Pentagon for whom it was originally designed.

Bob


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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Damon]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Sunday 08 August 2004 09:48 pm, Thomas Adam wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 10:43:16PM -0400, Carl Fink wrote:
> > On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 06:49:33PM -0300, Joey Hess wrote:
> > >  - grub as the boot loader
> >
> > Not for me -- I use LILO.
>
> This is the major thing that annoys me. Which moron is it that
> decided GRUB is better, and so you'll use that regardless? Only, I
> think a choice would be nice.
>
> Added to that, I understand that you can now also choose between
> installing stable/testing/unstable. Heh, that really does amuse me.
> *That* certainly won't cause mass confusion when someone chooses
> unstable, 
I run unstable, why not install it?  Why not have an option to install it?  
Many Many Many Many people run it.  Why not have that as an option?  What 
confusion?  "Oops, I realy wanted stable.  Now that I have spent 15 min 
installing the base system, I really don't want to waste all that time and 
re-install the stable system.  Looks like I am forced to use unstable.  Dam!"  
Debian is about choice.  Why not have a choice about what you want to 
install.  Dam site easier then upgrade, dist-upgrade, playing with the 
kernel, because you really wanted the latest one.  I see no reason to protect 
stupid users or ignorant users (debian newbies) at the expense of removing my 
choice.  Call it a learning experience and 15 min well spent.  I have never 
been confused by selecting unstable (and I mean NEVER even as a newbie).  My 
2c worth.
> only to realise that woppps, they meant something else. 
>
> -- Thomas Adam
> --
> "Frankly, Mr. Shankly, since you ask. You are a flatulent pain in
> the arse." -- Morrissey.

- -- 
Damon L. Chesser
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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raid Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Alvin Oga]

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Paul Gear wrote:

> Joey Hess wrote:
..
> >  - software RAID support
> 
> But not on /boot or /.  I find this just unfathomable.  What do i do if
> the disk containing / dies?


if raid is configured properly ... it will still boot ...

if /  is on /dev/hda and /dev/hdc  ... and one of the disk dies
- yow will still be able to boot

if / is on /dev/hda and /dev/hdc and /dev/hde ... and 2 of the disks dies,
- you will still be able to boot

if you have 4 disks ... you will always be able to boot 99.99% of the time
without touching the keyboard
/dev/md0 == /dev/hda + /dev/hdd in raid1 mirror
/dev/md1 == /dev/hdb + /dev/hdc in raid1 mirror

/dev/md0 and /dev/md1 is stripped ( raid0 ) for faster reading
( but not all systems support it properly - bios and raid config
problem )

data ( /home ) should always be raid5 across those 4 disks 
or raid1 .. mirror ... or whatever you want

==
== the whole point of raid ... it will boot no matter what ... if you 
== configured it properly...
==  we'll exclude silly things like a power supply blowing up
==  or cpu temp rising and rising and rising and crashing randomly
==  due to poor fans and air circulation preventing raid from doing
==  its job
==

c ya
alvin


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grub/lilo - Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Alvin Oga]

hi ya john

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, John Summerfield wrote:

> >This is the major thing that annoys me. Which moron is it that
> >decided GRUB is better

i still like that comment :-)  

lots of good and bad morons .. but all wants it to be "better" ...

> grub _is_ better. How could you think otherwise?
> 
> Seriously, I can only think of one thing lilo does better.

what's the "one thing" ???

see my dumb list of better or worst below ... 
( i'd like a to see a complete lilo vs grub of the various
( good vs bad comparison of reasons put together

"its better" does NOT justify that it is "better"
and under what circumstance is it better 
( it does make a difference )

better is relative to what the user wants or productivity or
the user level of how to cope with grub vs lilo
and the machine ability to boot or sit and wait or hang 
- nothing we can do about the machine's ability to boot
or not boot due to bios or filesystem issues

c ya
alvin

== i use both ... depending on what the customer prefers

lilo

- does NOT care about the filesystem on the disk
- bad that it hangs on li or lil  or 09090909090909

- bad that it doesn't support bootsplash ??? 
( or at least i don't recall being able to turn off boot messages
( vs putting up a fancy background image while booting in lilo

- is bootsplash important ??? 
( to some it is extremely important, you live/die by it )

- it can reboot itself to into another OS  with lilo -C xx.conf
( good for regression testing of various kernels or distro
( in that each time it boots, it boots a new kernel or distro
on /dev/hda or /dev/hdc 
- grub failed this test ..even if i changed menu.lst
( i donno how to change stage1/stage2 yet )

- grub did not like being installed into /dev/hdc
when the primary (current0 boot disk is /dev/hda
and told to boot /dev/hdc next time it boots

- lilo was trivial 2 second change to make it do that
( boot=/dev/hda in lilo.hda.conf vs 
( boot=/dev/hdc in lilo.hdc.conf )

grub
=
- needs to know the filesystem on the disk ( a bad thing )
== a very very bad thing to require /usr/lib to boot ...

== but trivially fixable if /usr/lib/{stage1,stage2} is moved
== to /boot/grub instead

- has a nice command shell 
- good .. you can do what you like if yoou knwow what to type
- bad ... if you do NOT knwo what to type, let me out of grub jail

- who came up with "edit" "select" "edit/change" "boot" sequence

- has a wierd syntax of "command options" part of the "good of grub" ??
- i have other things to do than to [re]learn gazillion new
options which might be needed or not

root(hda0,0) -- huh...

-- ask the newbie the question ...
they'd say /dev/hda1 
( machine assumes that means root=/dev/hda1 )

- bad that to make a grub floppy, you need to copy stage1, stage2
  which is sometimes in /usr/lib instead of /boot/grub
in which case, how is it supposed ot boot if it needs
to read /usr/lib first  ( it'd require a temporary initrd )


=== which is better ... just depends on what "better" means and 
=== does NOT mean that its better for "everybody"

- which is better ... vi or emac ...

( the problem is almost identical ... gazillion meta options 
( and proper keystroke sequence you have to remember

-- end of fun ...


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Re: Linux Support Los Angeles

[Kent West]

Scott Wiseman wrote:
http://www.avidware.net
 
 
They really need to get a proof-reader on their home page. Really. After 
about 16 errors before I got halfway through the page, I gave up. If 
they want to be considered professionals, they should really "dress the 
part".

--
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Re: Debian GnuCash packages orphaned

[William Ballard]

On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 11:20:38AM +0800, John Summerfield wrote:
> John Hasler wrote:
> >I have no objection to the C, but I'm a bit put off by the astonishing
> >number of Gnome libraries.
> I guess if you're using Gnome anyway you don't care.

Gnome 1.x libraries.  That's why I don't use it.
Last year when I tried to get into GnuCash I downloaded all of the Gnome 
build environment and GnuCash from Gnome.org, and IIRC it built using 
the Gnome 2.x libraries  Or at least the fonts looked pretty.

I think before GnuCash is at all acceptable GTK/Gnome2 widgets/fonts is 
an absolute must.


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Re: Debian GnuCash packages orphaned

[John Summerfield]

John Hasler wrote:
John Summerfield writes:
 

Oh, it bothers me a bit that gnucash is written in C.
   

A witches brew of C and Scheme, actually.
 

C isn't designed to handle money. Or text.
   

I have no objection to the C, but I'm a bit put off by the astonishing
number of Gnome libraries.
 

:-)
I guess if you're using Gnome anyway you don't care.
As for the money, I learned to write financial applications in COBOL. 
Whoops, it's extremely rusty.
mony PIC S9(11v3) COMP-3.
and in PL/1
money fixed dec(11,3).

From these the compiler knows that we are using fixed-point decimal 
numbers, and it knows where the decimal point is.
In C one can choose between
a) int (and run out of range) (and the problems of c)
b) float and get implementation and manybe platform dependent rounding 
errors.
c) longint and have to scale it yourself.

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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer? - moron

[Alvin Oga]

hi ya thomas

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Thomas Adam wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 10:43:16PM -0400, Carl Fink wrote:
> > On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 06:49:33PM -0300, Joey Hess wrote:
> > >  - grub as the boot loader
> > 
> > Not for me -- I use LILO.
> 
> This is the major thing that annoys me. Which moron is it that
> decided GRUB is better,

:-) ... 
probably the one that decides "everything" else for you too

> and so you'll use that regardless? Only, I
> think a choice would be nice.

ditto

personally, i like a gui that allows choices ...
- pick this or pick that
 
- if you dont care, it'd decide for you/us

also, when installing, i want to tell it everything once...
and tell it go and it does it all .. i dont want to sit there
and baby sit it every step of the way, one question at a time
as it does it thing for a minute or 5 min or 10 min and sits
and wait for the next answer
- nope, i didnt try the installer yet, but have
downloaded the iso .. just waiting for a guinea pig
to walk in the door that wants to see it 

> Added to that, I understand that you can now also choose between
> installing stable/testing/unstable. Heh, that really does amuse me.

that's a good thing to allow choosing which version

along with server type ( mail vs web vs printer vs dns vs fw vs ... )
along with security level of "easy" or "super paranoid"
along with which servers to upgrade/update against

.. blah blah ... the fun of "installing and maintaining it correctly"

> *That* certainly won't cause mass confusion when someone chooses
> unstable, only to realise that woppps, they meant something else.

it will .. guaranteed ...
- i hope the installed system will give a clue to newbies
which version they have installed

"cat /etc/debian_version" might not be sufficient

c ya
alvin


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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[John Summerfield]

Thomas Adam wrote:
On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 09:46:55AM +0800, John Summerfield wrote:
 

In the past week I've done two GUI installs. Both were easier than d-i.
   

"easier".
 

Easier translates to easier, quicker. All the same benefits one gets 
from a GUI desktop can be realised in an installer too.


The only thing against GUI installers is the amount of RAM they require. 
However, for new machines that's completely unimportant.
   

That is not the point. A non-GUI install means that you don't need
to ship with X *just* to install the damn distribution. Using X as a
means to install only increases the level of complexity and this
likelyhood of something going wrong.
 

With Anaconda, use of the GUI is optional. I'm sure it is with SuSE too, 
but it came sans documentation.

Besides, Debian ships with X anyway,
People often assert that increasing complexity increases the probability 
of errors and unreliability, but in fact this is not always the case. I 
used to be a systems programmer for MVS systems, back when IBM's finest 
ran to 16 Mbytes of RAM. A good deal of the complexity of MVS back then 
went into prevention of problems such as one job monopolising the CPU 
(or other resources) and generally making sure everyone got a fair go, 
and from code to recover from errors when they did occur.

There were very few hardware or user errors that could actually take the 
system down.

For example, if there was a read error on a tape, it
a) Notices
b) Retried some number of times by backspacing and retrying.
c) Rewinding, spacing back to the same position and retrying some number 
of times.

In contrast, a Wang 720C (I think that was the model number) whci was 
about equivalent to a peecee in that time ignored read errors on its 
tapes. Whoops.


With a curses or similar installer, Ok, you don't have clickie
things but big deal. Who cares? They're usable, intuitive and don't
require lots of RAM to install. It just means that you have to use 
the keyboard more often.
 

I had "clickie things" in DOS. I used to use Turbo Pascal and the mouse 
worked very wll then. Didn't need much RAM either, _my_  peecee was 
enormous two megabytes of RAM. Can you beleive it!!

Of course, DOS only used 640K.
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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Paul Gear]

Joey Hess wrote:
> ...
> Anyway, no, hardware autodetection is not the only new feature compared
> to the boot floppies.  Off the top of my head a few other user-visible
> features:
> ...
>  - software RAID support

But not on /boot or /.  I find this just unfathomable.  What do i do if
the disk containing / dies?

-- 
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Therefore you cannot track down the sender using that address.  Instead,
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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Paul Gear]

John Summerfield wrote:
> ...
>> Its also much easier to use then the woody one, by default uses simple
>> options so it can be used by linux newbies without holding a book in
>> the other hand a
>>
> 
> I'm not so sure about that. I find the partitionaer far too confusing.

Agreed - Progeny's port of anaconda looks promising.  I've always found
the Red Hat partitioner to be good at representing the layout and easy
to use.

-- 
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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[John Summerfield]

Thomas Adam wrote:
On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 10:43:16PM -0400, Carl Fink wrote:
 

On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 06:49:33PM -0300, Joey Hess wrote:
   

- grub as the boot loader
 

Not for me -- I use LILO.
   

This is the major thing that annoys me. Which moron is it that
decided GRUB is better, and so you'll use that regardless? Only, I
think a choice would be nice.
 

grub _is_ better. How could you think otherwise?
Seriously, I can only think of one thing lilo does better.
Added to that, I understand that you can now also choose between
installing stable/testing/unstable. Heh, that really does amuse me.
*That* certainly won't cause mass confusion when someone chooses
unstable, only to realise that woppps, they meant something else.
 

I just tried "stable." Doesn't work. Couldn't find the compenent(s) to 
download.



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Re: Debian GnuCash packages orphaned

[John Hasler]

John Summerfield writes:
> Oh, it bothers me a bit that gnucash is written in C.

A witches brew of C and Scheme, actually.

> C isn't designed to handle money. Or text.

I have no objection to the C, but I'm a bit put off by the astonishing
number of Gnome libraries.
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI


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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Thomas Adam]

On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 10:43:16PM -0400, Carl Fink wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 06:49:33PM -0300, Joey Hess wrote:
> >  - grub as the boot loader
> 
> Not for me -- I use LILO.

This is the major thing that annoys me. Which moron is it that
decided GRUB is better, and so you'll use that regardless? Only, I
think a choice would be nice.

Added to that, I understand that you can now also choose between
installing stable/testing/unstable. Heh, that really does amuse me.
*That* certainly won't cause mass confusion when someone chooses
unstable, only to realise that woppps, they meant something else.

-- Thomas Adam
--
"Frankly, Mr. Shankly, since you ask. You are a flatulent pain in 
the arse." -- Morrissey.


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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Carl Fink]

On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 06:49:33PM -0300, Joey Hess wrote:

> It works for about 95% of our users based on installation reports. I
> expect that 90% of our users don't bother to file reports -- I've not
> seen any from you.

I posted one to debian-boot, which no one answered.
 
> Anyway, no, hardware autodetection is not the only new feature compared
> to the boot floppies.  Off the top of my head a few other user-visible
> features:
> 
>  - automatic disk partitioning

Not if you want to resize your NTFS partition.  I had to use a
shareware product.  GNU ntfstools are not included.

>  - support for XFS, reiserfs, jfs

Irrelevant to me personally, but granted.

>  - booting from USB keychain

Didn't know that.

>  - wireless networking

Not with my card.

>  - 2.6 kernel

Not on my hardware.  Freeze.

>  - grub as the boot loader

Not for me -- I use LILO.

>  - automatic detection of other OSes (linux, windows, etc) and
>addition of working boot entires for these in the grub menu

Not in my case.

I did say "basically" the same as boot-floppies.  None of the above
strikes me as "basic".  (I did say "basically", right?  I don't have
a copy of my own post to hand.)
-- 
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Jabootu's Minister of Proofreading
http://www.jabootu.com


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Re: Debian GnuCash packages orphaned

[John Summerfield]

William Ballard wrote:
On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 09:07:10AM +0800, John Summerfield wrote:
 

I'm sure it will work for some businesses, but I suspect not for many.
   

Isn't there some PHP + PostGres accounting package already in Debian?  
Is that SQL Ledger?  That's what businesses need, not a Gooey.
 

sql-ledger's in Perl. It uses postgresql and its author appreciates the 
importance of not using mysql.

Oh, it bothers me a bit that gnucash is written in C. C isn't designed 
to handle money. Or text.


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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Carl Fink]

On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 11:58:57PM +0200, Patrick Donker wrote:

> While you're at, could somebody explain to me why it is concidered to be 
> lame asking for a gui installer? ...

I don't think it is.  I think it's considered lame to ask for a GUI
installer before the actual *function* of the installer is perfected. 
Once it works, you can throw an X version on top of the "does the
job" part fairly easily.
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Re: udev, atapi cdrw drives and cdrecord

[Wayne Topa]

csj([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
> On 8. August 2004 at 2:19PM -0400,
> Wayne Topa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Otto Wyss([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
> 
> > > > I am trying to use cdrecord to make a cd.  But it seemingly
> > > > hangs (forever).  It outputs the information below and then
> > > > suspends (and ctrl C does not kill it).
> > > > 
> > > Use 
> > > 
> > > cdrecord --scanbus dev=ATAPI
> > > 
> > > and then burn it with the gotten numbers
> > > 
> > > cdrecord dev=ATAPI:x,x,x
> > > 
> > I had a problem using "dev=ATAPI:x,x,x" when I first switched
> > to the 2.6.x kernel and dropping ide-scsi.  I finally settled
> > on dev=/dev/hdc.  So I just tried the above to see if something
> > had changed, since I am now running kernel 2.6.7.
> 
> The better way to burn a cd's under the new interface is
> 
> cdrecord dev=ATA:x,x,x
> 
> where x,x,x is returned by:
> 
> cdrecord --scanbus dev=ATA
> 
> I myself am confused over the difference between dev=ATA and
> dev=ATAPI.  AFAIK dev=ATA:x,x,x gives you DMA, while
> dev=ATAPI,x,x,x doesn't.  This is with the unstable version of
> cdrecord.  dev=ATA is probably equivalent to dev=/dev/hdX.

Interesting.

It seems that --scanbus dev=ATA does report the CDRW & CDROM as 
different devices, 1,0,0 and 1,1,0 wheras ATAPI reports them as 
0,0,0 & 0,1,0.

cdrecord speed=10 dev=ATA:1,0,0 blank=fast 
with -- Warning: Using badly designed ATAPI via /dev/hd* interface.

cdrecord speed=10 dev=/dev/hdc blank=fast 
with -- Warning: Open by 'devname' is unintentional and not supported.

but both blank the CD while ATAPI:0,0,0 does not.
This means more testing on my part but thanks for mentioning the
ATA:x,x,x.  I don't recall reading/hearing about that before.

Wayne

-- 
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Re: I hate it when that happens...

[Paul Gear]

John L Fjellstad wrote:
> Paul Gear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> 
>>And *always* use 'set -u' in shell scripts.  :-)
> 
> 
> What does that do?  I looked in bash manual, and couldn't find
> anything... (always ready to learn something new:-) )

It treats an unset variable as an error.  Very handy for making sure
your backup script doesn't overwrite your root filesystem when you write
rsync -SHavx /blah $DEST/

:-)

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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Micha Feigin]

On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 11:58:57PM +0200, Patrick Donker wrote:
> Carl Fink wrote:
> 
> >On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 02:29:50PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote:
> >
> >>Carl Fink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > 
> >
> >>>The only real difference from the older boot-floppies is
> >>>autodetection of hardware, which almost works some of the time.
> >>
> >>That's not true.  debian-installer will also allow for more than just
> >>the ncurses interface for the but-it-doesn't-have-a-GUI lusers, among
> >>other things ...
> >
> >
> >
> >Advantages, Paul.  Not decorations.
> >
> 
> While you're at, could somebody explain to me why it is concidered to be 
> lame asking for a gui installer? I have never quite understood why it is 
> 3l1te to keep on using a commandline/ascii installer. It is just what 
> the general public is expecting these days. So, if you want to make your 
> product mainstream, what I suspect is what the Debian developers would 
> like it to be, then trying to avoid a graphical installer isnt very much 
> a very todays point of view. For me it doesnt matter much. If a clear 
> text based installer is used, it is fine with me. I prefer a good ascii 
> installer over a poorly designed gui
> 

First design a good txt based installer (Takes less work on the
encapsulation). If it is properly designed (and the claim is that it is)
then it should be easy to slap a gui on top of it afterwords.

> -Patrick
> 
> 
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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Micha Feigin]

On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 09:31:04AM +0800, John Summerfield wrote:
> Micha Feigin wrote:
> 
> >On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 03:18:29PM -0500, matt zagrabelny wrote:
> > 
> >
> >>On Sun, 2004-08-08 at 15:05, Patrick Donker wrote:
> >>   
> >>
> >>>I hear alot of fuzz about 'the new installer'...
> >>>Whats so special about it?
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>>
> >
> >Its also much easier to use then the woody one, by default uses simple
> >options so it can be used by linux newbies without holding a book in
> >the other hand a
> >
> 
> I'm not so sure about that. I find the partitionaer far too confusing.
> 

Yes, it doesn't seem to have a middle road, either too self contained,
or you really need to understand what its trying to do.

> 
> -- 
> 
> Cheers
> John
> 
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Re: Debian GnuCash packages orphaned

[John Hasler]

William Ballard writes:
> Isn't there some PHP + PostGres accounting package already in Debian?  Is
> that SQL Ledger?

SQL-Ledger is Perl+Postgresql.  It has it's own problems.
-- 
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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Thomas Adam]

On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 09:46:55AM +0800, John Summerfield wrote:

> In the past week I've done two GUI installs. Both were easier than d-i.

"easier".

> The only thing against GUI installers is the amount of RAM they require. 
> However, for new machines that's completely unimportant.

That is not the point. A non-GUI install means that you don't need
to ship with X *just* to install the damn distribution. Using X as a
means to install only increases the level of complexity and this
likelyhood of something going wrong.

With a curses or similar installer, Ok, you don't have clickie
things but big deal. Who cares? They're usable, intuitive and don't
require lots of RAM to install. It just means that you have to use 
the keyboard more often.

-- Thomas Adam
--
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the arse." -- Morrissey.


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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[John Summerfield]

s. keeling wrote:
Incoming from Patrick Donker:
 

While you're at, could somebody explain to me why it is concidered to be 
lame asking for a gui installer? I have never quite understood why it is 
   

Turn it around.  Ask what is to be gained from a GUI installer.  Off
the top of my head, I'd compare SuSE' YAST to YAST2.  The latter was
slower, used more resources, demanded X, did less, and looked
prettier.  Whoopee.
 

In the past week I've done two GUI installs. Both were easier than d-i.
a. SuSE 9.0.
b Progeny 2 beta .
a was on a Penium III, 128 Mb with W98 installed on a 20 Gb disk. I 
intended to trash it, but Yast offered to resize it. All I had to do was 
drag a slider knob along to the size (ratio) I wanted.. Partitioning was 
trivial.

I'd never seen the installer before,and I found it nice to be able to 
click on various links and have a look around without committing myself 
to anything.
b was another P III, no windows this time. The installer is Anaconda 
which I used in its GUI mode - I was wondering whether  it would run in 
128 Mbytes. It does, and it worked well. I had no difficulties, but then 
this is the RH installer I"ve used for years.

Anaconda has a text-mode, and can run in a fully automatic mode too. To 
help me repeat _this_ configuration it stored the conifig file it  
generated in ~root.

The only thing against GUI installers is the amount of RAM they require. 
However, for new machines that's completely unimportant.

I note that Patrick "Thats why I said that I'd prefer a good txt 
installer over a poor gui one" is running Windows.

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Re: Debian GnuCash packages orphaned

[William Ballard]

On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 09:07:10AM +0800, John Summerfield wrote:
> I'm sure it will work for some businesses, but I suspect not for many.

Isn't there some PHP + PostGres accounting package already in Debian?  
Is that SQL Ledger?  That's what businesses need, not a Gooey.

Also GnuCash is missing batches and posting by batches, "closing your 
books" each period.

You don't "debit" inventory.  Inventory goes in separate tables; and is 
linked to Orders table; Orders table is linked to Payments table; 
Payments table is linked to Accounts.  Accounts are debited and 
credited; different terminology is used for the other entities.  
"Inventory" is "transferred" to and from "bins" and "warehouses.".


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Re: Bogus reply-to

[Tim Connors]

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, John Summerfield wrote:

>
> >I personally think that policies on mailing lists shouldn't dictate
> >things like reply-to (not that this one has been made publicly known
> >other than through your rants), because some people prefer to get a
> >reply-to (me, for example - reply-to means I can see any responses to
> >me straight away without having to wait for the mailing list to do its
> >thing), and I think it clutters the list to say "please reply to
> >me". Let your mailer do its thing (set your own reply-to[1] as
> >necessary, as you do), and hope that everyone respects it.
> >
> The list's settings should reflect its primary use. This is a discussion
> list and its settings should reflect that.

So is eg. LKML.

What I am saying, is all of these discussion lists have differnt policies.
It's kind of silly expecting people to remember which policy belongs to
which list, and blasting people when they get it wrong.

-- 
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
> As you know, Linus took the word the penguins kept saying over and
> over again, rot13'ed it, and used that as the name of his OS.
So, who's going to record this .au file:
"Hello, my name is Yvahf Gbeinyqf, and I pronounce yvahk, yvahk."
  -- Anthony de Boer && Michel Buijsman @ ASR


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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[John Summerfield]

Micha Feigin wrote:
On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 03:18:29PM -0500, matt zagrabelny wrote:
 

On Sun, 2004-08-08 at 15:05, Patrick Donker wrote:
   

I hear alot of fuzz about 'the new installer'...
Whats so special about it?
 

Its also much easier to use then the woody one, by default uses simple
options so it can be used by linux newbies without holding a book in
the other hand a
I'm not so sure about that. I find the partitionaer far too confusing.
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Re: How popular is Debian (popularity contest)

[John Summerfield]

Simon Kitching wrote:
On Sun, 2004-08-08 at 22:19, Jaap Haitsma wrote:
 

I came across this website http://popcon.debian.org/
It shows statistics how many people have installed a certain package on 
what kind of system etc. etc. If you want to anonymously report what 
packages you are using you have to have the popularity-contest package 
installed.
I guess many people using Debian have it installed. That's why I was 
amazed that the number of submissions is only around 6000.
Are there only around 1000 debian users on the world (assumption 60% of 
them sends reports)

Also 9 architectures have 20 or less submissions. 3 architectures have 
only 1 submission. Seems to me supporting all these architectures for 
all the developers is quite some burden just to help out a few users.

Is there something wrong with my reasoning???
   

I think a better way to measure the number of debian installs would be
for security.debian.org to count unique IP addresses. While lots of
people won't have popularity-contest installed, a large majority of them
will be getting security updates...
Of course this would not count users of testing or unstable, which don't
have security updates. And it won't properly count people using
apt-proxy, etc. or behind NAT firewalls. But it would be a start.
 

Or packages with no security updates.
Or packages after they're cached. I'm sure a lot of my updates come from 
the WAIX cache. If not, I put them into the cache.


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Re: How popular is Debian (popularity contest)

[John Summerfield]

Paul Johnson wrote:
John Summerfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
 

George Roman wrote:
   

" right" is a relative word. debian is the right choice for me, if others
(people who use other dist) prefer to reinstall their systems with each
new release it is their business.
 

Which distros need to be reinstalled for each new release?
   

Anything involving RPM, unless you *like* spending months fighting
dependency hell...
 

In my experiense that is nonsense.
I used RHL from 3.0.3, and the only time I didn't upgrade when maybe I 
should have wa when I'd coerced some RHL 6.2 packages onto what was RHL 
5.0. That time I just didk't think it was worth the  risk.

I now there were lots of people who reinstalled: however, over all those 
years I never found it necessary except for that one tiime I'd chosen to 
bork the system. Even so, it would probably have coped.

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Re: Debian GnuCash packages orphaned

[John Summerfield]

Paul Scott wrote:
matt zagrabelny wrote:

Whatever you can contribute will help.  I've never maintained one 
either but we now have a team of four.  I will say more off list.
Oh. There's another Matt Z I know who is a dd. I'm less confused now.

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Re: Debian GnuCash packages orphaned

[John Summerfield]

Paul Scott wrote:
John Summerfield wrote:
Paul Scott wrote:
I probably will and the previous maintainer suggested this might be 
a good project for a team which is the other reason I posted here.  
I have been programming for many years but I am not yet a Debian 
developer.  I will also post that request at debian-devel.

Then also check with upstream: it's entirely possible someone there 
uses Debian, and it seems to me a good thing if somone has a foot in 
both camps.

Good idea!  Thanks.
I've had two others volunteer some help and now Matt Z. here.  We 
might have part or all of a team.
Good. I guess you have your mentor:-)
I've checked the website and browsed (very quickly) a lot of the 
documentation.
I found the survey is interesting (as is the fact they actually did 
one!). See http://www.gnucash.org/en/quiz-results.phtml

*How Good is GnuCash?
I guess I currently fit best in the 0.7%.

*
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Re: Debian GnuCash packages orphaned

[John Summerfield]

David P James wrote:
On Sun 8 August 2004 03:24, William Ballard wrote:
 

On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 12:08:29AM -0700, Paul Scott wrote:
   

Debian packages:  SQL-ledger and KMyMoney2.  Anyone have experience
or comments on the these packages as replacements for GnuCash?
 

GnuCash is the best of the lot, but that isn't saying very much.
   

I don't find GnuCash terribly usable for personal finances. The 
double-entry bookeeping that GnuCash uses doesn't work very well with 
personal finances. In the main window you end up with expense and 
income accounts piling up in a rather meaningless way. I took a few 
business accounting courses in university and I really don't think that 
double entry is appropriate for personal finance since categories of 
expense/consumption become accounts with cash flowing in, which makes 
absolutely no sense in the context of personal finance. GnuCash may 
well be useful for businesses (

Without stock control?
Consider your local peecee shop.
It sells a peecee. Can it debit stock
1 K8V
1 Opteron
512 Mb SDRAM
One SuperCase
One 48W p/s
2 cooling fans
2xSATA 250 Gb WD drives
etc
I'm sure it will work for some businesses, but I suspect not for many.
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Re: Bogus reply-to

[John Summerfield]

I too use the wrong tool for the job; I am reading this through
news://linux.debian.user (newsgroups are so much more convenient that
mailing lists, particularly since I already read a dozen newsfroups),
which preserves every header, so I can munge them back into something
sensible, *except* it doesn't preserve Reply-To (for your posts, it
sets "Mail-Copies-To: never", which I use in my script to detect
people not wanting reply-tos).
Possibly this is why people reply-to you directly.
 

No. They do it because
a. The list doesn't set reply-to
b. With the settings this list has,  most popular UAs such  as Tbird  
deduce that if I reply, it replies only to the contributor. The 
alternative is "reply all," and then people need to prune.

This is a discussion list, and IMV its settings should reflect that use.
There are lists where off-list replies are appropriate: say I'm selling 
DVDs and this is my customer list. You and I would want replies to go to 
my enquiries address, not to the list.

I personally think that policies on mailing lists shouldn't dictate
things like reply-to (not that this one has been made publicly known
other than through your rants), because some people prefer to get a
reply-to (me, for example - reply-to means I can see any responses to
me straight away without having to wait for the mailing list to do its
thing), and I think it clutters the list to say "please reply to
me". Let your mailer do its thing (set your own reply-to[1] as
necessary, as you do), and hope that everyone respects it.
 

The list's settings should reflect its primary use. This is a discussion 
list and its settings should reflect that.


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Re: How to test new installer?

[John Summerfield]

Don Jackson wrote:
On Sunday 08 August 2004 10:34 am, Jason Rennie wrote:
 

On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 10:45:15AM -0400, stan wrote:
   

I need to build a new "unstable" machine for some testing, and I thought
this might be a good oportunity to test the new installer.
How does one use it, at this point? Is there a specia; set of disk
images?
 

Here's the debian-installer web page:
 http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/
   

It would be really great if the Debian webmaster could put some link or clue 
to point to this debian-installer page.  I have spent countless time 
searching for it over the past months.  Many other pages and features are 
well hidden the same way on the Debian website.

BTW, the new installer is a great improvement ... thanks Joey and team!
 

www.debian.org

Scroll down to projects

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Re: Configuration DB

[Karsten M. Self]

on Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 02:42:32PM -0400, Tong ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 13:02:36 -0400, Greg Folkert wrote:

> > On Sat, 2004-08-07 at 15:09, Tong wrote:
> >> Yes, that is my question -- is there any way to avoid those hard and
> >> tedious questions, since I've answered them once, and the system should
> >> have kept the answer somewhere, or, Debian just forgets those answers
> >> right away? then how do you do reconfiguration? 

> > I don't know what you all are on about. Personally, I am on the same
> > "install" of Debian since I first installed it on my primary home
> > machine (and work for that matter)

> Seems to me you a guy who doesn't mind rolling up sleeves and doing the
> dirty work (those different systems need a hell time to configure,
> right?). I'm not. I'm just too lazy. 

If you're lazy, go back to Windows.  Really.  You'll save us a lot of
grief, and you'll transfer it back where it belongs.

You might want to read the following list thread from a few years back:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2001/04/msg01818.html

In fact, I'd strongly recommend you do.


The "dirty work" largely consists of:

  - Change /etc/hostname (if you're creating a new box, rather than
moving an old one).  You'll find that that's a one-line, one-word
file.

  - Update your network config, if necessary, in
/etc/network/interfaces.  Likely:  you modify the last quad of the
"address" line for eth0.  That's it.  You'd have to do same in
Windows, but through the "Networks" control panel dialog.  Unless
you're using DHCP, in which case, no change needed.

  - Possibly modify /etc/hosts if you reference your hostname there.

  - Modify /etc/fstab to point to the partitions and mountpoints on your
new system.

  - Add appropriate modules necessary for drivers to /etc/modules.
Easiest way to do this is to boot Knoppix which autoconfigures
itself to your system, and note the modules it uses.  Basically:
ethernet, sound, filesystems, and any specific devices (usb, other
hotplug) you need.  Yes, this could be a bit more transparent, but
it's pretty painless.


If you don't know what you're doing:  an hour talking on IRC with
someone who does.  If you do know what you're doing:  5 minutes with
$EDITOR.

> My side of the story,
> 
> Tired of making choices during installing and configuration, started
> from RedHat 7.2 (till RH9), I build a installation disk of my own, using
> RedHat kickstart. All the tools I want are in, while all those I don't are
> thrown out. Official RH release is 3 disks, mine is just one, and the
> package are kept being updated (by apt-get of cause). So far it is almost
> the same as you cpio solutions, but read on.
> 
> Whenever there is anything wrong with my current system, (my current
> situation is the best example -- leaving the box on for months and all
> of the sudden the mouse under X doesn't works), with my old RH system,
> I don't care what I did during those months and trying to figure out
> why. Just pop in my dear installation CD and 10 minutes later, I get a
> fresh system as good as new, and everything to my taste. FYI, I've
> been spending 4 days already, trying all sorts of things, but nothing
> works -- because I don't know how I can achieve this in debian, yet. 

The "reboot, reformat, reinstall" mentality is a *really* bad habit
learned from too much time with Microsoft products.

Misbehavior under Linux is virtually always due to something changing:

  - New software.
  - New hardware.
  - Modified configuration.
  - Broken hardware.

The question then becomes "which is it".  Since pretty much everything
Just Works[tm], when it doesn't, you've got a pretty clear indication
that Something Is Seriously Wrong.

I've never had the need to reinstall Debian to fix a broken
configuration.  I *have* had the need to reinstall packages due to other
problems, ranging from hardeware failure to operator error (memo to
Self:  do *not* fsck mounted filesystems).  Which _can_ be achieved,
often on a running system.  Sometimes you have to resort to a chroot
under Knoppix.

 
> Now the best part. How much time do you think I will spend on
> installing and configuration in different systems like you just
> mentioned? Still, 10 minutes each. RH HW detect set everything for me
> almost automatically. Now think back, for all the different systems
> you have, how much time did you spend on configuration? ;-)

Through Woody, Debian's installers didn't do much autodetection.  The
candidate installer for Sarge (forthcoming Debian release) is reported
to do much, much better.  Advise you give it a shot.

Note that it's still a work in progress, though it's nearing completion.
 
> I'm just lazy. 

You know, so am I.

I prefer to put the minimum amount of work into maintaining my system to
my needs and understanding as possible.  And in my experience, Debian's
the way to do that.

You may need to reinstall your RH systems eve

Re: Duplicates driving me crazy

[Alvin Oga]

hi ya brian

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004, Brian Pack wrote:

> A good 30% of the traffic I'm receiving on this list are duplicate
> posts. Usually immediately following the original message.
> 
> What is going on here, and is there anything I can do to stop it?

i bet verizon's mail servers get the incoming email
from debian's servers and verizon's gazillion mta's will
try to deliver the mail to you

to prove it the idea ... 
a) use a different email address ( non-verizon acct )

b) subscribe to another high-traffic mailing list
using the same verizon acct and you'll get dups on it too

c ya
alvin


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Re: How popular is Debian (popularity contest)

[Tim Connors]

Simon Kitching <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said on Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:05:07 +1200:
> I think a better way to measure the number of debian installs would be
> for security.debian.org to count unique IP addresses. While lots of
> people won't have popularity-contest installed, a large majority of them
> will be getting security updates...
> 
> Of course this would not count users of testing or unstable, which don't
> have security updates. And it won't properly count people using
> apt-proxy, etc. or behind NAT firewalls. But it would be a start.

Or any proxy.

I think surveys with known and unquantifyable biases are useless, and
as such do not represent a "start".



As I said earlier, popcon has one use and one use only - to see
relative usage of packages; and even there, it has biases - I also
mentioned earlier than laptop users wouldn't use popcon, because they
turn off access-time updates on their HD. And as you also say, server
users also may be less likely to partake in "fun" surveys such as
popcon. 

But I guess in this use, popcon does represent a start, as long as the
people putting the CDs do at least realise the biases.

-- 
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
The Klein-Gordon equation was derived by Schroedinger. 
Hence its name. -- Peter Robinson, Rel. Quant. Mech Lecturer.


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bsd disklabel & kernel 2.6

[junopr]

Hi all.  I'm having trouble mounting FreeBSD slices.  I am able to mount The 
first slice with:

% mount -r -t ufs -o ufstype=ufs2 /dev/hdc1 /mnt/bsd

But I can't access anything else.  After googling around a bit, it looks
like I should see the partitions at boot, but I don't:

% dmesg | grep hdc1[~]
 hdc: hdc1 hdc2 hdc3 hdc4 < hdc5 hdc6 hdc7 hdc8 hdc9 hdc10 hdc11 hdc12 >

hdc5-hdc12 are all ext2 partitions left over from an old slackware install.

Here's Debian's fstab:

/dev/hdc11 /   ext2 defaults0   1
/dev/hdc12 /usrext2 defaults0  2

/dev/hdc5  noneswap sw  0   0
proc   /proc   proc defaults0   0

/dev/hdc2  /mnt/hdc2   ext2 ro,noauto,nosuid,noexec 0  2 # slack root
/dev/hdc9  /mnt/woody  ext2 rw,noauto   0  2 # woody inst.
/dev/hdc10 /mnt/hdc10  ext2 rw,nosuid   0  2 # big share

/dev/sda1  /mnt/usbmsdos   rw,nosuid,noexec,umask=022  0  0 # usb drive
/dev/cdrom  /mnt/cdrom  iso9660 noauto,ro,user,noexec   0  0

And Freebsd's fstab:

# DeviceMountpoint  FStype  Options DumpPass#
/dev/ad2s1b noneswapsw  0   0
/dev/ad2s1a /ufsrw  0   1
/dev/ad2s1g /home   ufs rw  0   2
/dev/ad2s1e /tmpufs rw  0   2
/dev/ad2s1f /usrufs rw  0   2
/dev/ad2s1d /varufs rw  0   2
/dev/ad2s10 /mnt/s10ext2fs  rw  0   0
/dev/ad2s11 /mnt/debian ext2fs  rw,noauto   0   0
/dev/ad2s12 /mnt/s12ext2fs  rw  0   0
/dev/ad2s2  /mnt/linux/root ext2fs  rw,noauto   0   0
/dev/ad2s3  /mnt/ntfs   ntfsrw,noauto   0   0
/dev/ad2s9  /mnt/linux/home ext2fs  rw,noauto   0   0
/dev/acd0   /cdrom  cd9660  ro,noauto   0   0
/dev/ad2s8  /xmule  ext2fs  rw,noauto   0   0


I think I CONFIG_BSD_DISKLABEL, but I can't find it anywhere.  Has it's
name changed in the 2.6 kernels?

I know this partition scheme totally sucks, but I'm stuck with it b/c
I can't boot from a cd/fd :(

Running Sarge.

Any help would be great.  Thanks.


% sudo fdisk /dev/hdc [~]
Command (m for help): p
Disk /dev/hdc: 40.0 GB, 40007761920 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 4864 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

   Device Boot  Start End  Blocks   Id  System
/dev/hdc1   *   1 638 5124703+  a5  FreeBSD
/dev/hdc2   * 639 704  530145   83  Linux
/dev/hdc3 705197910241437+   7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/hdc41980486423173762+   5  Extended
/dev/hdc519802012  265041   82  Linux swap
/dev/hdc620132045  265041   83  Linux
/dev/hdc720462111  530113+  83  Linux
/dev/hdc821122373 2104483+  83  Linux
/dev/hdc923742504 1052226   83  Linux
/dev/hdc10   25053720 9767488+  83  Linux
/dev/hdc11   37214103 3076416   83  Linux
/dev/hdc12   41044864 6112701   83  Linux

Command (m for help): b
Reading disklabel of /dev/hdc1  at sector 64.

BSD disklabel command (m for help): p

8 partitions:
#   start   end  size fstype   [fsize bsize   cpg]
  a:1*   33*   32*4.2BSD 2048 16384 32776 
  b:   33*   66*   32*  swap  
  c:1*  638   637*unused0 0   
  d:   66*   98*   32*4.2BSD 2048 16384 32776 
  e:   98*  164*   65*4.2BSD 2048 16384 8 
  f:  164*  368*  203*4.2BSD 2048 16384 28552 
  g:  368*  38214*4.2BSD 2048 16384 14912 


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Re: How popular is Debian (popularity contest)

[Tim Connors]

Paul Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said on Sun, 08 Aug 2004 15:07:19 -0700:
> Matthew T. Atkinson wrote:
> 
> >'ello,
> >
> >I use popcon on my relatively new Sarge box.  Problem is that there is a
> >bug preventing the mails from getting out to Debian's machines.  So it
> >could be that even people using popcon are not being counted.
> >
> >Not sure if the bug has been fixed yet; I remember apt-listbugs telling
> >me about it being still open once when dist-upgrading.
> >
> A message was just posted to Debian development with the subject:
> 
> "Please participate in popularity-contest"

Damn. Can't sorry.

Laptop users typically turn off access time, to stop excess HD
accesses, and popcon needs accesstime to work.

-- 
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
cat ~/.signature
Passing cosmic ray (core dumped)


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Re: Bogus reply-to

[Tim Connors]

"Monique Y. Mudama" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said on Sun, 8 Aug 2004 10:05:12 -0600:
> On 2004-08-08, Tim Connors penned:
> >:0 a:
> > .duplicates
> >
> 
> Do I really need to repeat for the hundredth time that I read
> debian-user through gmane, ie, as a newsgroup, so that your procmail
> recipe does precisely diddly for me??

I read that after posting.

I suggest that gmane is the wrong tool for the job - I;ve heard plenty
of people say it sucks for mailing lists, and this appears to be
another case (actually, google seem to be really doing a good job at
making sucky UIs and not implementing proper protocols - witness
google groups 2 and how it doesn't set and preserve "References:"; but
I digress). But anyway...

> Sorry.  I've just gotten that response a ton of times, and 1) it doesn't
> help me, and 2) it's beside the point.  I shouldn't *have* to do any of
> this -- d-u has a policy against cc'ing unless requested, and I set my
> mail headers appropriately. 

I too use the wrong tool for the job; I am reading this through
news://linux.debian.user (newsgroups are so much more convenient that
mailing lists, particularly since I already read a dozen newsfroups),
which preserves every header, so I can munge them back into something
sensible, *except* it doesn't preserve Reply-To (for your posts, it
sets "Mail-Copies-To: never", which I use in my script to detect
people not wanting reply-tos).

Possibly this is why people reply-to you directly.



I personally think that policies on mailing lists shouldn't dictate
things like reply-to (not that this one has been made publicly known
other than through your rants), because some people prefer to get a
reply-to (me, for example - reply-to means I can see any responses to
me straight away without having to wait for the mailing list to do its
thing), and I think it clutters the list to say "please reply to
me". Let your mailer do its thing (set your own reply-to[1] as
necessary, as you do), and hope that everyone respects it.

There's also the issue that differnt mailing lists adopting different
practices means that no-one can actually keep track of which practice
is used where, so they just use the one that is most convenient for
them.

[1] Even if Reply-To is considered harmful
(http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html), and causes some
mailers to drop the mailing list off the list of CCs, and will end up
replying only to your single bogus address.

-- 
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
But if I ever have a child, I will certainly be naming it "Sun
Microsystems".  -- Hipatia


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Re: Debian GnuCash packages orphaned

[Paul Scott]

Katipo wrote:

There is an associated German developed package called hbci-gnucash, 
or gnucash-hbci you might like to check out in association with this, 
also.
Thanks,
Paul
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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Micha Feigin]

On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 03:18:29PM -0500, matt zagrabelny wrote:
> On Sun, 2004-08-08 at 15:05, Patrick Donker wrote:
> > I hear alot of fuzz about 'the new installer'...
> > Whats so special about it?
> > 
> 

Its also much easier to use then the woody one, by default uses simple
options so it can be used by linux newbies without holding a book in
the other hand and IIRC it is modular so it will be much easier to
extend when the time comes.

> quoting joey hess:
> 
> The Debian-Installer team announces the first release candidate of the
> Debian sarge installer. Significant improvements in this release of the
> installer include:
> 
>  - Support for the s390 architecture, completing the full set of 11 
>released Debian architectures.
>  
>  - Added support for more subarches for arm (riscpc, riscstation),
>m68k (bvme6000, mvme147, mvme16x), mipsel (cobalt) and powerpc
>(oldworld).
>  
>  - Native port to the amd64 architecture. Note that amd64 packages are
> not
>yet available in the Debian archive; packages and images are
> available
>from the Debian amd64 project. 
>
>  - CD images finally work for sparc64.
>  
>  - Full size CD images are available as part of the release for the
> first
>time. Note that this is not an official release of Debian sarge, just
> a
>Debian-Installer beta release.
>
>  - Supports installing using the 2.6 kernel on powerpc.
>  
>  - Installing with the 2.6 kernel on i386 is no longer considered
>experimental as it was in previous betas, but is still not the
> default.
>
>  - Support for firewire CD drives and firewire ethernet.
>  
>  - Added and improved support for a wide variety of other hardware.
> 
>  - Improved documentation.
> 
>  - Numerous bug fixes and improvements -- far too many to list here.
> 
>  - Translated into 40 languages (36 fully complete), including new 
>translations to Croatian and Farsi.
>  
>  - The latest and greatest versions of everything from Debian's testing
>distribution, which is close to official release itself.
> 
> We're confident that this is our best release ever, so give it a try,
> install Debian today, and don't forget to file an installation report so
> we
> can continue to make the installer even better. 
> 
> Links to bootable images and documentation are on our web site.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
>  
>  +++
>  This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System
>  at the Tel-Aviv University CC.
> 


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Re: How to test new installer?

[Micha Feigin]

On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 10:19:15AM -0600, Paul E Condon wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 10:45:15AM -0400, stan wrote:
> > I need to build a new "unstable" machine for some testing, and I thought
> > this might be a good oportunity to test the new installer.
> > 
> > How does one use it, at this point? Is there a specia; set of disk images?
> > 
> 
> If you mean, how do you get it to install unstable rather than testing, I
> suppose that you take the opportunity offered somewhere near the beginning
> of the install to hand edit the /etc/apt/sources.list that it uses. 
> 
> I haven't tried it, but if you point it at sid there's not much else it
> can do except, perhaps, die.
> 

If you chose the advanced option it lets you chose between
stable/testing/unstable (I'm not sure if you need something else, it
was mentioned some time ago, but its been a while since I did it).

> 
> -- 
> Paul E Condon   
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
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>  +++
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Re: udev, atapi cdrw drives and cdrecord

[csj]

On 8. August 2004 at 2:19PM -0400,
Wayne Topa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Otto Wyss([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:

> > > I am trying to use cdrecord to make a cd.  But it seemingly
> > > hangs (forever).  It outputs the information below and then
> > > suspends (and ctrl C does not kill it).
> > > 
> > Use 
> > 
> > cdrecord --scanbus dev=ATAPI
> > 
> > and then burn it with the gotten numbers
> > 
> > cdrecord dev=ATAPI:x,x,x
> > 
> I had a problem using "dev=ATAPI:x,x,x" when I first switched
> to the 2.6.x kernel and dropping ide-scsi.  I finally settled
> on dev=/dev/hdc.  So I just tried the above to see if something
> had changed, since I am now running kernel 2.6.7.

The better way to burn a cd's under the new interface is

cdrecord dev=ATA:x,x,x

where x,x,x is returned by:

cdrecord --scanbus dev=ATA

I myself am confused over the difference between dev=ATA and
dev=ATAPI.  AFAIK dev=ATA:x,x,x gives you DMA, while
dev=ATAPI,x,x,x doesn't.  This is with the unstable version of
cdrecord.  dev=ATA is probably equivalent to dev=/dev/hdX.


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Problem running PHP4 with Apache

[[KS]]

Hi,

I just did an upgrade with apt-get which included
upgrades to php4 in
addition to others. After the upgrade, php is not
running with apache.

I checked and the lines for application/x-httpd-php
and they are
uncommented.
AddType application/x-httpd-php .php
AddType application/x-httpd-php-source .phps

The modules.conf includes the php module (position:
just before the last
module).
LoadModule php4_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/libphp4.so

The DirectoryIndex section also contains the index.php
entry (although I
don't use it)


~DirectoryIndex index.html index.htm index.php
index.shtml index.cgi


Is there something else I need to do? Any help would
be highly appreciated.

Thanks
/KS

PS: uname -a
Linux localhost 2.4.26-1-686 #1 Thu Jul 22 13:00:49
JST 2004 i686 GNU/Linux 





___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - 
all new features - even more fun!  http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


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Re: [NEWBIE] Installing PHP and Apache on Debian

[Ryan Vilim]

More or less, but as with most things it is slightly more complicated 
than that. First off, there are quite a few optional php modules, 
mcrypt, mysql, gd and what have you,

apt-cache search php
should show you all of them (look for the php4- prefix). Although I am 
not positive (its been a while since I last formatted my server) I think 
you need to un-comment the line in /etc/apache/httpd.conf to load the 
php module, which looks like

LoadModule php4_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/libphp4.so
and uncomment the AddType bit for PHP also
AddType application/x-httpd-php .php
So that apache will know to parse php files (if you want to make your 
php scripts have a different extention sub that in). Other than that, 
the installation of apache and PHP on debian is quite straightforward. 
Have fun.

BTW I think I may have sent this to your email instead of the list, my 
mistake. Sorry
--
Ryan Vilim
http://jabberwock.ca

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firewall rule for saned (shorewall)

[Micha Feigin]

Is there a way to setup an access rule to allow access to saned or a way
to set it up to use a static port (it seems that it opens random ports,
at least through inetd).

I am using shorewall if that affects the answer.

I am trying to also limit access to the firewall from the inside since
it tunnels some connections through and due to technical limitations
also provides some other services.


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Re: Installing PHP and Apache on Debian

[Douglas Ward]

On Sun, 2004-08-08 at 16:18 -0500, wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I plan to install PHP and Apache on a new, virgin (remote) Debian server, with PHP 
> running as an Apache shared module. 
> Can I do that using "apt-get install"? Would I simply run "apt-get install php4" (is 
> that the correct notaton?) and will that take care of everything else (including 
> installing Apache)? If not, I would appreciate any pointers to documents that will 
> step me through the process (including Debian specific caveats), or even 
> step-by-step instructions.
> 
> TIA,
> Joseph

If you're installing something new, check the depends list for what is
to be installed and for what is suggested.  Install suggested packages
if a package doesn't seem to work.

$ apt-cache depends php4

In this case, you can see that apache server is not installed (though
apache-common is).

$ apt-get install php4 apache apache-doc php-doc

The /usr/share/doc//README.Debian usually gives workarounds for
any problems.


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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Patrick Donker]

s. keeling wrote:
Incoming from Patrick Donker:
While you're at, could somebody explain to me why it is concidered to be 
lame asking for a gui installer? I have never quite understood why it is 

Turn it around.  Ask what is to be gained from a GUI installer.  Off
the top of my head, I'd compare SuSE' YAST to YAST2.  The latter was
slower, used more resources, demanded X, did less, and looked
prettier.  Whoopee.

Thats why I said that I'd prefer a good txt installer over a poor gui one
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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[s. keeling]

Incoming from Patrick Donker:
> 
> While you're at, could somebody explain to me why it is concidered to be 
> lame asking for a gui installer? I have never quite understood why it is 

Turn it around.  Ask what is to be gained from a GUI installer.  Off
the top of my head, I'd compare SuSE' YAST to YAST2.  The latter was
slower, used more resources, demanded X, did less, and looked
prettier.  Whoopee.


-- 
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(*)   http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling 
- -


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Re: Debian GnuCash packages orphaned

[Katipo]

Paul Scott wrote:
I just noticed that Debian packages for GnuCash:  
http://lists.debian.org/debian-wnpp/2004/03/msg00714.html and 
GnuCash-doc:  
http://lists.debian.org/debian-wnpp/2004/04/msg00121.html have been 
orphaned for some time.  I will consider doing what it takes to 
maintain those packages but I thought I would check here to see if 
there are any other considerations.

I see there are a number of other choices at least two of which have 
Debian packages:  SQL-ledger and KMyMoney2.  Anyone have experience or 
comments on the these packages as replacements for GnuCash?

There is an associated German developed package called hbci-gnucash, or 
gnucash-hbci you might like to check out in association with this, also.
Regards,

David.
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Re: How popular is Debian (popularity contest)

[Paul Scott]

Matthew T. Atkinson wrote:
'ello,
I use popcon on my relatively new Sarge box.  Problem is that there is a
bug preventing the mails from getting out to Debian's machines.  So it
could be that even people using popcon are not being counted.
Not sure if the bug has been fixed yet; I remember apt-listbugs telling
me about it being still open once when dist-upgrading.
A message was just posted to Debian development with the subject:
"Please participate in popularity-contest"
If you are not using popularity-contest it would help the developers 
know your priorities if more of you would install and use it.

Paul Scott
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Re: How popular is Debian (popularity contest)

[Simon Kitching]

On Sun, 2004-08-08 at 22:19, Jaap Haitsma wrote:
> I came across this website http://popcon.debian.org/
> It shows statistics how many people have installed a certain package on 
> what kind of system etc. etc. If you want to anonymously report what 
> packages you are using you have to have the popularity-contest package 
> installed.
> I guess many people using Debian have it installed. That's why I was 
> amazed that the number of submissions is only around 6000.
> Are there only around 1000 debian users on the world (assumption 60% of 
> them sends reports)
> 
> Also 9 architectures have 20 or less submissions. 3 architectures have 
> only 1 submission. Seems to me supporting all these architectures for 
> all the developers is quite some burden just to help out a few users.
> 
> Is there something wrong with my reasoning???

I think a better way to measure the number of debian installs would be
for security.debian.org to count unique IP addresses. While lots of
people won't have popularity-contest installed, a large majority of them
will be getting security updates...

Of course this would not count users of testing or unstable, which don't
have security updates. And it won't properly count people using
apt-proxy, etc. or behind NAT firewalls. But it would be a start.

>From what I remember of using the new debian-installer a few months ago,
it really encourages people to use popularity-contest, so maybe the
number of installations of popularity-contest will grow.

Of course its purpose is mainly to determine which packages should go on
which CD images of Debian, so as long as the set of people with
popularity-contest installed is reasonably representative, it doesn't
matter if the numbers are not large. As someone said, debian servers are
probably under-represented, as good sysadmins won't install unnecessary
software on production machines. I hope the people determining the CD
package order take this into account...


Cheers,

Simon


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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Patrick Donker]

Carl Fink wrote:
On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 02:29:50PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote:
Carl Fink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
 

The only real difference from the older boot-floppies is
autodetection of hardware, which almost works some of the time.
That's not true.  debian-installer will also allow for more than just
the ncurses interface for the but-it-doesn't-have-a-GUI lusers, among
other things ...


Advantages, Paul.  Not decorations.

While you're at, could somebody explain to me why it is concidered to be 
lame asking for a gui installer? I have never quite understood why it is 
3l1te to keep on using a commandline/ascii installer. It is just what 
the general public is expecting these days. So, if you want to make your 
product mainstream, what I suspect is what the Debian developers would 
like it to be, then trying to avoid a graphical installer isnt very much 
a very todays point of view. For me it doesnt matter much. If a clear 
text based installer is used, it is fine with me. I prefer a good ascii 
installer over a poorly designed gui

-Patrick
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Re: Debian GnuCash packages orphaned

[Paul Scott]

matt zagrabelny wrote:
On Sun, 2004-08-08 at 02:08, Paul Scott wrote:
 

(snip)
Anyone interested in helping me maintain GnuCash and/or GnuCash-doc?
   

i really enjoy gnucash and would hate to see it not actively maintained on
debian. ive never maintained a package before but would be interested in
finding out what all is involved.
 

Whatever you can contribute will help.  I've never maintained one either 
but we now have a team of four.  I will say more off list.

Thanks,
Paul
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Re: Debian GnuCash packages orphaned

[Paul Scott]

John Summerfield wrote:
Paul Scott wrote:
I probably will and the previous maintainer suggested this might be a 
good project for a team which is the other reason I posted here.  I 
have been programming for many years but I am not yet a Debian 
developer.  I will also post that request at debian-devel.

Then also check with upstream: it's entirely possible someone there 
uses Debian, and it seems to me a good thing if somone has a foot in 
both camps.
Good idea!  Thanks.
I've had two others volunteer some help and now Matt Z. here.  We might 
have part or all of a team.

Thanks,
Paul

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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Patrick Donker]

Joey Hess wrote:
Carl Fink wrote:
The only real difference from the older boot-floppies is
autodetection of hardware, which almost works some of the time.

It works for about 95% of our users based on installation reports. I
expect that 90% of our users don't bother to file reports -- I've not
seen any from you.
Anyway, no, hardware autodetection is not the only new feature compared
to the boot floppies.  Off the top of my head a few other user-visible
features:
 - automatic disk partitioning
 - support for XFS, reiserfs, jfs
 - booting from USB keychain
 - wireless networking
 - 2.6 kernel
 - grub as the boot loader
 - automatic detection of other OSes (linux, windows, etc) and
   addition of working boot entires for these in the grub menu
 - LVM support
 - software RAID support
 - support for firewire CD and ethernet
 - supports installing from pcmcia CD drives
 - support for RTL languages; translated to Arabic &etc
 - remote-controlled installation over ssh (experimental except on s390)
 - just 12 keypresses for a basic debian install
Now, this is what I call cool features :) thanks!
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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Carl Fink]

On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 02:29:50PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote:
> Carl Fink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
 
> > The only real difference from the older boot-floppies is
> > autodetection of hardware, which almost works some of the time.
> 
> That's not true.  debian-installer will also allow for more than just
> the ncurses interface for the but-it-doesn't-have-a-GUI lusers, among
> other things ...


Advantages, Paul.  Not decorations.

-- 
Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jabootu's Minister of Proofreading
http://www.jabootu.com


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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Joey Hess]

Carl Fink wrote:
> The only real difference from the older boot-floppies is
> autodetection of hardware, which almost works some of the time.

It works for about 95% of our users based on installation reports. I
expect that 90% of our users don't bother to file reports -- I've not
seen any from you.

Anyway, no, hardware autodetection is not the only new feature compared
to the boot floppies.  Off the top of my head a few other user-visible
features:

 - automatic disk partitioning
 - support for XFS, reiserfs, jfs
 - booting from USB keychain
 - wireless networking
 - 2.6 kernel
 - grub as the boot loader
 - automatic detection of other OSes (linux, windows, etc) and
   addition of working boot entires for these in the grub menu
 - LVM support
 - software RAID support
 - support for firewire CD and ethernet
 - supports installing from pcmcia CD drives
 - support for RTL languages; translated to Arabic &etc
 - remote-controlled installation over ssh (experimental except on s390)
 - just 12 keypresses for a basic debian install

-- 
see shy jo


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

RAID does not start automatically

[Clement]

I have setup several RAID based systems already, include a few with 
exactly the same software combination.  But this one just does not start 
the RAID automatically.   The partition type is  fd for Linux raid 
autodetect.   When booted, these are reported:

md: raid1 personality registered as nr 3
md: md driver 0.90.0 MAX_MD_DEVS=256, MD_SB_DISKS=27
...
md: Autodetecting RAID arrays.
md: autorun ... 
md: ... autorun DONE.

The RAID arrays are created with mdadm command.  They can be started 
alright by running mdrun.  However, this is not good enough to allow the 
RAIDed root partition be mounted.

The hardware is:
- Intel P4-2.8GHz on ICH5r m/b
- SATA 200MB as /dev/sda to form an incomplete mirror.
(*the other drive for the mirror purpose will be added later)
The software is:
- Debian Sarge
- Kernel 2.6.7, custom compiled with raid built-in
Your help is much appreciated.
Regards,
Clement
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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[matt zagrabelny]

On Sun, 2004-08-08 at 16:20, Carl Fink wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 10:05:51PM +0200, Patrick Donker wrote:
> > I hear alot of fuzz about 'the new installer'...
> > Whats so special about it?
> 
> The only real difference from the older boot-floppies is
> autodetection of hardware, which almost works some of the time.
> -- 

umm, also GRUB is an option on install.

-matt


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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Paul Johnson]

Carl Fink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 10:05:51PM +0200, Patrick Donker wrote:
>> I hear alot of fuzz about 'the new installer'...
>> Whats so special about it?
>
> The only real difference from the older boot-floppies is
> autodetection of hardware, which almost works some of the time.

That's not true.  debian-installer will also allow for more than just
the ncurses interface for the but-it-doesn't-have-a-GUI lusers, among
other things.  And hardware detection is getting better...


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Re: [NEWBIE] Installing PHP and Apache on Debian

[Paul Johnson]

Please fix your misconfigured mail client: Turn line wrap to 72 columns
and throw an extra line feed in between paragraphs.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> I plan to install PHP and Apache on a new, virgin (remote) Debian
> server, with PHP running as an Apache shared module.

OK.

> Can I do that using "apt-get install"?

Should be able to.

> Would I simply run "apt-get install php4" (is that the correct
> notaton?) and will that take care of everything else (including
> installing Apache)?

apt-cache search php4 should give you a good list to help narrow it down
to what package you need to install using apt-get install .


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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Carl Fink]

On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 10:05:51PM +0200, Patrick Donker wrote:
> I hear alot of fuzz about 'the new installer'...
> Whats so special about it?

The only real difference from the older boot-floppies is
autodetection of hardware, which almost works some of the time.
-- 
Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jabootu's Minister of Proofreading
http://www.jabootu.com


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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Joris Huizer]

Patrick Donker wrote:
matt zagrabelny wrote:
On Sun, 2004-08-08 at 15:05, Patrick Donker wrote:
I hear alot of fuzz about 'the new installer'...
Whats so special about it?

quoting joey hess:
The Debian-Installer team announces the first release candidate of the
Debian sarge installer. Significant improvements in this release of the
installer include:
 - Support for the s390 architecture, completing the full set of 11
released Debian architectures.


Ok, allot of extra stuff, but nothing 'new' as in features, extra 
functionality or graphics...right?


The installer is being improved (in design and in easiness as I read on 
this list, I don't have a spare partition to try myself)

new features, etc would be in new (sarge) packages that'll be the next 
stable release and/or the new 2.6 kernel

HTH,
Joris
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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Paul Johnson]

Patrick Donker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I hear alot of fuzz about 'the new installer'...
> Whats so special about it?

Google for debian-installer


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Re: Want anonymous proxy server IP address mapping utility

[Paul Johnson]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> Thus far, my web searches have not turned up anything like the
> Windows "multiproxy", "winnow", etc. utilities for Linux.
> I know I can set up for anonymous proxy use on a one-at-a-time
> basis, but I want the (very useful) additional features
> of the above mentioned Gatesware-based utilities.

No, we will not help you spam.


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Re: How popular is Debian (popularity contest)

[Paul Johnson]

John Summerfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> George Roman wrote:
>
>>" right" is a relative word. debian is the right choice for me, if others
>>(people who use other dist) prefer to reinstall their systems with each
>>new release it is their business.
>
> Which distros need to be reinstalled for each new release?

Anything involving RPM, unless you *like* spending months fighting
dependency hell...


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Re: How popular is Debian (popularity contest)

[Paul Johnson]

William Ballard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 12:19:54PM +0200, Jaap Haitsma wrote:
>> Are there only around 1000 debian users on the world (assumption 60% of 
>> them sends reports)
>
> Why would you assume that?  I don't use popcon; it's possible that 99.9% 
> of users don't use it.  Who knows?

It's called popularity-contest.  :o)


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[NEWBIE] Installing PHP and Apache on Debian

[debian]

Hi.

I plan to install PHP and Apache on a new, virgin (remote) Debian server, with PHP 
running as an Apache shared module. 
Can I do that using "apt-get install"? Would I simply run "apt-get install php4" (is 
that the correct notaton?) and will that take care of everything else (including 
installing Apache)? If not, I would appreciate any pointers to documents that will 
step me through the process (including Debian specific caveats), or even step-by-step 
instructions.

TIA,
Joseph

-
Mail sent from: 24.126.78.239


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Re: How to make a boot disk?

[Paul Johnson]

"Juhani Vainio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I installed Sarge from net. The installation program did not propose to make
> starting diskette. I installed grub to mbr and everything is ok, but I want to
> make also a starting disket. Mr Murphy, you know.

Your sarge CD is your emergency boot disk.  When the CD boots, read the
instructions for using it as a "rescue disk".
p


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Duplicates driving me crazy

[Brian Pack]

A good 30% of the traffic I'm receiving on this list are duplicate
posts. Usually immediately following the original message.

What is going on here, and is there anything I can do to stop it?

I'm using evolution 1.4.6 if that's any help.




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Re: Openoffice has stopped working (sarge)

[Joan Tur]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Es Diumenge 08 Agost 2004 21:30, en Joan Tur va escriure:
| Es Diumenge 08 Agost 2004 19:14, en matt zagrabelny va escriure:
| | On Sun, 2004-08-08 at 11:46, Joan Tur wrote:
| | > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
| | > Hash: SHA1
| | >
| | > Hallo!
| | >
| | > Openoffice seems not to work any more.  I've tryed running it as user
| | > and root with no luck (sarge version = 1.1.2).
| | >
| | > - -
| | > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ooffice
| | > OpenOffice.org for Debian - see
| | > /usr/share/doc/openoffice.org/README.Debian.gz running openoffice.org
| | > setup...
| | > Setup complete.  Running openoffice.org...
| | >
| | > Starting configuration import into user data ..
| | > .. importing layer file:///tmp/oooLocale.KROR6N - succeeded
| | > - -
| | >
| | > It doesn't show any error message, and the starting app window appears,
| | > then stops loading.  If I kill the app the .lock file is in the
| | > openoffice's user directory.
| | >
| | > I've tryed uninstalling it with --purge, and installing version 1.1.1
| | > with no luck (same behaviour).
| | >
| | > If I try to open ooffice the main window appears, and it hangs when I
| | > select new or open a file; if I try to start one of the different
| | > components (oowrite, oocalc...), no window appears, and I have to kill
| | > the app.
| | >
| | > Installed debs:
| | > - -
| | > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/Agenda$ apt-show-versions |grep openo
| | > openoffice.org-debian-files/testing uptodate 1.1.2-2+1
| | > openoffice.org-bin/testing uptodate 1.1.2-2
| | > openoffice.org-l10n-en/testing uptodate 1.1.2-2
| | > openoffice.org-help-es/testing uptodate 1.1+20030814-2
| | > openoffice.org-crashrep/testing uptodate 1.1.2-2
| | > openoffice.org-l10n-ca/testing uptodate 1.1.2-2
| | > openoffice.org/testing uptodate 1.1.2-2
| | > openoffice.org-mimelnk/testing uptodate 1.1.2-2
| | > - -
| | >
| | > Any idea?  TIA  ;)
| |
| | i was having similar troubles. i just started oowriter and after the
| | splash image appeared it took around 10 minutes for oowriter to start.
|
| No luck.  After 30 minutes it still hasn't started  };)
It finally has started!!  It has took 41 minutes to start... I've verified it 
was really working (opened a file), closed it and opened it again... over 40 
minutes again!!  =8-O

No idea on what's happening  8'(

- -- 
Joan Tur (aka Quini), Eivissa-Spain
Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Yahoo & AIM: quini2k
www.ClubIbosim.org
  Linux: usuari registrat 190.783
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Re: Openoffice has stopped working (sarge)

[Joan Tur]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Es Diumenge 08 Agost 2004 20:34, en Raúl Alexis Betancort Santana va escriure:
| El Domingo 08 Agosto 2004 20:30, Joan Tur escribió:
| > No luck.  After 30 minutes it still hasn't started  };)
|
|  Just delete all the temp files of OO, moreover the ones located under /tmp
I cannot do so.   The file/directory shown as imported when started from 
console is no longer in /tmp/

Maybe OO writes temporary files in a directory different from /tmp ??  8-?
- -
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ oowriter

Starting configuration import into user data ..
.. importing layer file:///tmp/oooLocale.bG4HP2 - succeeded
- -

| Best regards
Thanks  ;)

- -- 
Joan Tur (aka Quini), Eivissa-Spain
Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Yahoo & AIM: quini2k
www.ClubIbosim.org
  Linux: usuari registrat 190.783
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gAVjKkpQkrip5+f7AifqI0E=
=yXga
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Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Patrick Donker]

matt zagrabelny wrote:
On Sun, 2004-08-08 at 15:05, Patrick Donker wrote:
I hear alot of fuzz about 'the new installer'...
Whats so special about it?

quoting joey hess:
The Debian-Installer team announces the first release candidate of the
Debian sarge installer. Significant improvements in this release of the
installer include:
 - Support for the s390 architecture, completing the full set of 11 
   released Debian architectures.

Ok, allot of extra stuff, but nothing 'new' as in features, extra 
functionality or graphics...right?

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How do I "multi_CD" on dselect w/o menu option?

[God bless us all, everyone.]

Thanks to everyone, I've gotten a 'boot;'Herein the difficulty:  dselect does not prompt for a multi-CD install.Can this be remedied?  Base.debs had been from the 1.44 floppyimages, I think from ftp.us.debian.org, but I'd mixed a few links from the end of the installation guide.
 
A secondary thing: when the installation procedure ran, taskselwas skipped; it is also apparently unavailable now in root.  It prompts "No tasks found on this system... Did you update your available file."
 
I could not guess whether "Yahoo!" is making text- or HTML output out of my e-mails; if it is inappropriate as per the Code of Conduct, how do I fix "Yahoo!" ???
 
Howard.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: Whats with this new Debian installer?

[matt zagrabelny]

On Sun, 2004-08-08 at 15:05, Patrick Donker wrote:
> I hear alot of fuzz about 'the new installer'...
> Whats so special about it?
> 

quoting joey hess:

The Debian-Installer team announces the first release candidate of the
Debian sarge installer. Significant improvements in this release of the
installer include:

 - Support for the s390 architecture, completing the full set of 11 
   released Debian architectures.
 
 - Added support for more subarches for arm (riscpc, riscstation),
   m68k (bvme6000, mvme147, mvme16x), mipsel (cobalt) and powerpc
   (oldworld).
 
 - Native port to the amd64 architecture. Note that amd64 packages are
not
   yet available in the Debian archive; packages and images are
available
   from the Debian amd64 project. 
   
 - CD images finally work for sparc64.
 
 - Full size CD images are available as part of the release for the
first
   time. Note that this is not an official release of Debian sarge, just
a
   Debian-Installer beta release.
   
 - Supports installing using the 2.6 kernel on powerpc.
 
 - Installing with the 2.6 kernel on i386 is no longer considered
   experimental as it was in previous betas, but is still not the
default.
   
 - Support for firewire CD drives and firewire ethernet.
 
 - Added and improved support for a wide variety of other hardware.

 - Improved documentation.

 - Numerous bug fixes and improvements -- far too many to list here.

 - Translated into 40 languages (36 fully complete), including new 
   translations to Croatian and Farsi.
 
 - The latest and greatest versions of everything from Debian's testing
   distribution, which is close to official release itself.

We're confident that this is our best release ever, so give it a try,
install Debian today, and don't forget to file an installation report so
we
can continue to make the installer even better. 

Links to bootable images and documentation are on our web site.




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Re: USB Memory

[matt zagrabelny]

On Sun, 2004-08-08 at 14:55, Max wrote:
> On Sunday 08 August 2004 09:34, Glenn Meehan wrote:
> > I'm trying to read some usb memory.  I can read it in windows. I can't
> > read it with debian.
> 
> > also
> > root:/proc/scsi> mount -t vfat /dev/sda1 /mnt/memstick
> > mount: /dev/sda1 is not a valid block device
> 

sometimes the kernel will complain if you've used different mass storage
devices. for instance if i plug my camera in and mount it, do stuff,
unmount it, *then* plug in my vorbis player and try to mount it, i get
the same error. i will either reboot (yuk) or "rmmod usb-storage;
modprobe usb-storage" to get things to work with the new device.

-matt


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Re: Openoffice has stopped working (sarge)

[Wayne Topa]

Joan Tur([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hallo!
> 
> Openoffice seems not to work any more.  I've tryed running it as user and root 
> with no luck (sarge version = 1.1.2).
> 
> - -
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ooffice
> OpenOffice.org for Debian - see /usr/share/doc/openoffice.org/README.Debian.gz
> running openoffice.org setup...
> Setup complete.  Running openoffice.org...
> 
> Starting configuration import into user data ..
> .. importing layer file:///tmp/oooLocale.KROR6N - succeeded
> - -
> 
> It doesn't show any error message, and the starting app window appears, then 
> stops loading.  If I kill the app the .lock file is in the openoffice's user 
> directory.
> 
> I've tryed uninstalling it with --purge, and installing version 1.1.1 with no 
> luck (same behaviour).
> 
> If I try to open ooffice the main window appears, and it hangs when I select 
> new or open a file; if I try to start one of the different components 
> (oowrite, oocalc...), no window appears, and I have to kill the app.
> 
> Installed debs:
> - -
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/Agenda$ apt-show-versions |grep openo
> openoffice.org-debian-files/testing uptodate 1.1.2-2+1
> openoffice.org-bin/testing uptodate 1.1.2-2
> openoffice.org-l10n-en/testing uptodate 1.1.2-2
> openoffice.org-help-es/testing uptodate 1.1+20030814-2
> openoffice.org-crashrep/testing uptodate 1.1.2-2
> openoffice.org-l10n-ca/testing uptodate 1.1.2-2
> openoffice.org/testing uptodate 1.1.2-2
> openoffice.org-mimelnk/testing uptodate 1.1.2-2
> - -
> 
> Any idea?  TIA  ;)

Strange!  I was running 1.1.2-2 with no problems at all.

I noticed that 1.1.2-3 was available in unstable and upgreaded to it
on 2004-08-04.  Its working fine with no help for me at all.

wt

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Re: How popular is Debian (popularity contest)

[Matthew T. Atkinson]

'ello,

I use popcon on my relatively new Sarge box.  Problem is that there is a
bug preventing the mails from getting out to Debian's machines.  So it
could be that even people using popcon are not being counted.

Not sure if the bug has been fixed yet; I remember apt-listbugs telling
me about it being still open once when dist-upgrading.

bye just now,


-- 
Matthew T. Atkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Whats with this new Debian installer?

[Patrick Donker]

I hear alot of fuzz about 'the new installer'...
Whats so special about it?
-Patrick
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