Re: [Mondo-devel] mondoarchive

[Bruno Cornec]

harland christofferson said on Sun, Sep 16, 2007 at 05:51:17PM -0700:

> Then I receive this error:
> 
> Mindi failed to create your boot+data disks.
> ---promptpopup---1--- Fatal error. Filesystem cramfs
> not supported for initrd image. Terminating.
> 
> I've attached the end of the log file ... where it
> reports that cramfs is not supported. All logging to
> this reports ".. Ran Just Fine"

Please could you attach the whole log file for both mondo and mindi.
TIA,
Bruno.
> 
> Creating cramfs initrd filesystem.
> 
> Fatal error. Filesystem cramfs not supported for initrd image. Terminating.

It fails creating it. Maybe a FS full or another right issue, or ...

> sh: line 1: kill: root: no such pid

Humm I think those bugs have been fixed in more recent versions.
Could you try the latest Debian vesion recently made by Andree (unstable
I think)

Bruno.
-- 
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Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges"

[Gabriel Parrondo]

El mié, 26-09-2007 a las 01:17 -0500, Mike McCarty escribió:
> Gabriel Parrondo wrote:
> > El mar, 25-09-2007 a las 21:33 -0500, Mike McCarty escribió:
> > [snip of something I can't help with]
> >> She can't associate multiple queues with a single printer,
> >> but there is already another thread about that. There is
> >> currently no work around, but there is hope that using the
> >> CUPS I/F directly may work.
> > 
> > Let us know when you try this out. I have several instances of each
> > printer created in cups each one with different configuration
> > (grayscale, color, color high quality) and it works great. Using gnome.
> 
> Really? I worked on that repeatedly with no success. Works
> great on my machine (different distro, however).

Same printer?

>  I wonder if we need to do a
> 
> # apt-get update some-package

The update command doesn't take any arguments.

> 
> or sth like that.
> 
[...]
> > 
> > Does she have the hplip package installed?
> 
> I'm not sure that would help anyway given the way it's set up.
> There was (is?) no proper printer definition file for
> that printer. I kludged up another printer which is somewhat
> close just to make it work with HPJIS, and renamed the file.
> It may have HPLIP, but I doubt it.

I'm not sure if you ever told us what model the printer is...

> 
> > It includes an app called hp-toolbox which let's you do all the tasks
> > you would do with the hp-director in WS (i.e. the cartridge
> > cleaning/realignment, see how loaded the cartridges are, etc)
> 
> This printer is pretty smart. It may not need so much.
> I dunno. If I replace a cartridge, it _automatically_
> runs some sort of alignment on itself.
> 
> But presently, we can't change the dpi etc. That's more
> the kind of thing needed. I need a _proper_ printer def
> file. Is there an apt-get which can be done to check for
> additional printer defs? Making the scanner part and the
> FAX work is another issue. She really wants the scanner
> to work as well. I have no experience with SANE or any
> scanner drivers on Linux.

Maybe if we knew the printer model...

But for hp printers there is:
hplip-ppds, hpijs-ppds, foomatic-db-hpijs, hpoj, linuxprinting.org-ppds.

You could also try with:
apt-cache search ppd


> 
> >> Another issue which has never been posted: She installed more
> >> memory. She had 512 MB RAM, and now has 1.5 Gig. Unfortunately,
> >> Debian seems only to recognize just under 1.0 Gig. I haven't
> >> looked on the web for a fix for that, so I haven't posted
> >> here. Part of the reason I haven't gone searching for a
> >> solution, is that her reaction to that was to purchase a copy
> >> of Windows XP.
> > 
> > apt-get install linux-image-686-bigmem
> 
> Aha! Thanks!
> 
> >> She's sorta impulsive, sometimes.
> >>
> >> Partly, she also wants access to a disc which was formatted
> >> by Windows NT, and which she considers she has no access to
> >> at present. (Not quite true, but I try not to argue with her
> >> very much. It is true that she has some apps on there which
> >> won't run under Debian.)
> > 
> > ntfs-3g if it is ntfs.
> 
> ?
> 
> # apt-get ntfs-3g
> 
> ?

apt-cache search ntfs-3g

apt-get install whatever

man apt-get

Come on, work with me here! ;)

> 
> It is indeed NTFS.
> 

Does she have windows installed? I usually see people using ntfs partitions 
without having windows installed, I fail to understand why...

-- 
Gabriel Parrondo
GNU/Linux User #404138
GnuPG Public Key ID: BED7BF43
JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

"The only difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there's no 
difference between theory and practice."


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Re: Installing 2 Linux on one HD.

[Russell L. Harris]

* Yazad Khambata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070926 01:14]:
>Can someone make it a bit simpler... I didn't follow much... I am ready to
>install the 2 OSs just tell me what to do with the GRUB in simple words...
>how do I know where the kernel is and what is it's name? and how do i
>access the kernel of CentOS from Debian... Sorry if my questions sound
>dumb; I am learing Linux.

First of all, make yourself a GRUB boot CD:

http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/html_node/Making-a-GRUB-bootable-CD-ROM.html

Using GRUB, you can search all of your drives and boot anything on
them which can be booted.

And, after starting your machine with the GRUB boot CD, you can reinstall
GRUB, if necessary.
 
RLH


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Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues with one printer: HOW?

[Mike McCarty]

Gabriel Parrondo wrote:

El mar, 25-09-2007 a las 20:49 -0500, Mike McCarty escribió:

Gabriel Parrondo wrote:

El mar, 25-09-2007 a las 18:43 -0500, Mike McCarty escribió:

Works on my distro. I can't get it to work with Debian.


Cool! What distro is that? What version of gnome does it run?


[snip]


But, since you ask, specifically, I'm using GDM 2.6.0.0


GDM = Gnome Display Manager?


Yes.


I was asking about the gnome version ('System->About gnome' or
'Desktop->About gnome' or 'dpkg -l gnome').


I dunno what you refer to here, the distro on which it
works is not Debian, so there is no "dpkg". However,
in an gnome-terminal,

$ gnome-about

gives a screen indicating version 2.6, build date 3/31/2004

$ rpm -qa | grep -i gnome | grep -i print
libgnomeprint15-0.37-9
libgnomeprintui22-2.6.0-1
libgnomeprint22-2.6.0-1
gnome-print-devel-0.37-9
gnome-print-0.37-9


OTOH, if you're actually using that version of GDM you must be running
an old version of gnome as well. Probably before the


What I said. It's old.


lets-cut-down-every-app policy started...


Hmm. I haven't encountered that policy.


which is considered rather old for the distro I'm using.

I haven't checked the version for Debian.


Mostly 2.18.3 if it's lenny and 2.14.something if it's etch. Don't know
about SID (2.6.20??) or sarge.


Are these GNOME or kernel versions?

:-)

Mike
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Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges"

[Mike McCarty]

Gabriel Parrondo wrote:

El mar, 25-09-2007 a las 21:33 -0500, Mike McCarty escribió:
[snip of something I can't help with]

She can't associate multiple queues with a single printer,
but there is already another thread about that. There is
currently no work around, but there is hope that using the
CUPS I/F directly may work.


Let us know when you try this out. I have several instances of each
printer created in cups each one with different configuration
(grayscale, color, color high quality) and it works great. Using gnome.


Really? I worked on that repeatedly with no success. Works
great on my machine (different distro, however). I wonder if
we need to do a

# apt-get update some-package

or sth like that.


So far, she's unable to get her printer to full functionality.
I kludged up a printer description which sorta works, but
not fully. It's an HP, but I don't at present recall the
exact model number. It is a combined Printer/FAX/Scanner.
So far, it just prints either in greyscale or color, depending
on how we've edited queue at the moment. We can't select different
print quality, color/greyscale, or any other options except by
editing the one queue associated with it. It is also supposed
to be able to read and print camera memory sticks, but that
only works in stand-alone mode, with no way to get the info
from the printer to the computer. Supposedly, this works
with THE OTHER OS, though that is unverified. Anyway, at
present it's running with my kludgy edit of another printer
description file, not one from Debian, and just as a simple
printer, it can't even do a realign. None of the other
functions are currently usable.


Does she have the hplip package installed?


I'm not sure that would help anyway given the way it's set up.
There was (is?) no proper printer definition file for
that printer. I kludged up another printer which is somewhat
close just to make it work with HPJIS, and renamed the file.
It may have HPLIP, but I doubt it.


It includes an app called hp-toolbox which let's you do all the tasks
you would do with the hp-director in WS (i.e. the cartridge
cleaning/realignment, see how loaded the cartridges are, etc)


This printer is pretty smart. It may not need so much.
I dunno. If I replace a cartridge, it _automatically_
runs some sort of alignment on itself.

But presently, we can't change the dpi etc. That's more
the kind of thing needed. I need a _proper_ printer def
file. Is there an apt-get which can be done to check for
additional printer defs? Making the scanner part and the
FAX work is another issue. She really wants the scanner
to work as well. I have no experience with SANE or any
scanner drivers on Linux.


Another issue which has never been posted: She installed more
memory. She had 512 MB RAM, and now has 1.5 Gig. Unfortunately,
Debian seems only to recognize just under 1.0 Gig. I haven't
looked on the web for a fix for that, so I haven't posted
here. Part of the reason I haven't gone searching for a
solution, is that her reaction to that was to purchase a copy
of Windows XP.


apt-get install linux-image-686-bigmem


Aha! Thanks!


She's sorta impulsive, sometimes.

Partly, she also wants access to a disc which was formatted
by Windows NT, and which she considers she has no access to
at present. (Not quite true, but I try not to argue with her
very much. It is true that she has some apps on there which
won't run under Debian.)


ntfs-3g if it is ntfs.


?

# apt-get ntfs-3g

?

It is indeed NTFS.


I dunno how much progress will be made, even if I can make
everything work by Saturday evening. She seems kinda to have
made up her mind. I have, um, limited influence over her
behavior. :-)


Well, the windows' been bought already...


Yeppers. But not opened. However F-PROT has been purchased,
and I suspect its a "non-returnable" kinda thing. I've
got one of those "funny feelings" that her mind is kinda
made up.

Mike
--
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Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!


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Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues with one printer: HOW?

[Gabriel Parrondo]

El mar, 25-09-2007 a las 20:49 -0500, Mike McCarty escribió:
> Gabriel Parrondo wrote:
> > El mar, 25-09-2007 a las 18:43 -0500, Mike McCarty escribió:
> >> Works on my distro. I can't get it to work with Debian.
> >>
> > 
> > Cool! What distro is that? What version of gnome does it run?
> > Maybe it's running a newer version that didn't hit debian yet.
> 
> I'm normally not into going on a distro support list, and
> then telling them that some other distro is better. Kinda
> rude, y'know? Each distro has its advantages and disadvantages.
> No distro is better'n another in all ways for all people.

It probably has nothing to do with the distro, but with the gnome
release itself.
> 
> But, since you ask, specifically, I'm using GDM 2.6.0.0

GDM = Gnome Display Manager?

I was asking about the gnome version ('System->About gnome' or
'Desktop->About gnome' or 'dpkg -l gnome').

OTOH, if you're actually using that version of GDM you must be running
an old version of gnome as well. Probably before the
lets-cut-down-every-app policy started...


> which is considered rather old for the distro I'm using.
> 
> I haven't checked the version for Debian.

Mostly 2.18.3 if it's lenny and 2.14.something if it's etch. Don't know
about SID (2.6.20??) or sarge.


-- 
Gabriel Parrondo
GNU/Linux User #404138
GnuPG Public Key ID: BED7BF43
JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

"The only difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there's no 
difference between theory and practice."


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Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)

[debian]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 04:55:36PM -0500, Russell L. Harris wrote:

> Occasionally while writing, I save the document, switch to the
> command-line window and execute LaTeX, then look over the xdvi
> displays (which are updated automatically whenever LaTeX is run).

I can avoid the switch to the cl by programming one of the xemacs
functions keys to run latex.  That way I have the best of both worlds
-- latex and wysiwyg.

But, nobody has yet mentioned the FOREMOST advantage of latex - once
the penny drops, it is super fun !

I have just finished a small non-technical book using latex and
enjoyed every minute of it.  Latex is a joy to work with.

Joe


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Re: Installing 2 Linux on one HD.

[Yazad Khambata]

Can someone make it a bit simpler... I didn't follow much... I am ready to
install the 2 OSs just tell me what to do with the GRUB in simple words...
how do I know where the kernel is and what is it's name? and how do i access
the kernel of CentOS from Debian... Sorry if my questions sound dumb; I am
learing Linux.

Regards,
Yazad Khambata



On 9/25/07, H.S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yazad Khambata wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have 2 hard drives on one I have windows installed.
> >
> > The other is used by me for Linux installation...
> >
> > I first installed Debian 4.0; during installation it asked me about GRUB
> > and it aslo asked me if I had Windows XP/2000. All was well... I could
> > log into Debian and on selecting "others" from the menu I was redirected
> > to the Windows Menu (I have XP and 2000) installed on my machine.
> >
> > Next I decided to install CentOS on the Disk with Debian installed...
> > now I have lost the GRUB menu for Debian all together :(
> >
> > When I select "others"... in the CentOS grub menu I an redirected to
> > Windows boot menu... how do I enter debian now... I am ready to
> > reinstall, but how do I ensure that both linux show up in one menu?
> >
>
> In a similar case, here is what I did:
> 1. Repaired grub from within Debian (Debian is my main installation)
> 2. In the 'experimental' linux (I have FC7), I opted not to install Grub
> at all. I jotted down the location of /boot directory and its partition
> in this installation.
> 3. Next, in Debian, I entered the lines in menu.lst which pointed to the
> kernel in /boot of FC7.
>
> Next time I booted, I had the Grub list showing my Windows, Debian and
> FC7.
>
> The drawback is that for each update of the kernel in FC7, you will have
> to manually edit your menu.lst in Debian to get the lines corresponding
> to the new kernel.
>
> So, you see that I have separate /boot directories for the two linux
> installations. In the past, I have even played around with a common
> /boot. Since FC7 names its kernels differently than Debian, there was no
> clash and all worked fine.
>
> Since a few months ago, however, I have chosen to keep FC7 /boot
> separate -- just to experiment.
>
>
> regards,
> ->HS
>
>
>
>
>
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>

Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges"

[Gabriel Parrondo]

El mar, 25-09-2007 a las 21:33 -0500, Mike McCarty escribió:
[snip of something I can't help with]
> 
> She can't associate multiple queues with a single printer,
> but there is already another thread about that. There is
> currently no work around, but there is hope that using the
> CUPS I/F directly may work.

Let us know when you try this out. I have several instances of each
printer created in cups each one with different configuration
(grayscale, color, color high quality) and it works great. Using gnome.

> 
> So far, she's unable to get her printer to full functionality.
> I kludged up a printer description which sorta works, but
> not fully. It's an HP, but I don't at present recall the
> exact model number. It is a combined Printer/FAX/Scanner.
> So far, it just prints either in greyscale or color, depending
> on how we've edited queue at the moment. We can't select different
> print quality, color/greyscale, or any other options except by
> editing the one queue associated with it. It is also supposed
> to be able to read and print camera memory sticks, but that
> only works in stand-alone mode, with no way to get the info
> from the printer to the computer. Supposedly, this works
> with THE OTHER OS, though that is unverified. Anyway, at
> present it's running with my kludgy edit of another printer
> description file, not one from Debian, and just as a simple
> printer, it can't even do a realign. None of the other
> functions are currently usable.

Does she have the hplip package installed?

It includes an app called hp-toolbox which let's you do all the tasks
you would do with the hp-director in WS (i.e. the cartridge
cleaning/realignment, see how loaded the cartridges are, etc)


> 
> Another issue which has never been posted: She installed more
> memory. She had 512 MB RAM, and now has 1.5 Gig. Unfortunately,
> Debian seems only to recognize just under 1.0 Gig. I haven't
> looked on the web for a fix for that, so I haven't posted
> here. Part of the reason I haven't gone searching for a
> solution, is that her reaction to that was to purchase a copy
> of Windows XP.

apt-get install linux-image-686-bigmem

> 
> She's sorta impulsive, sometimes.
> 
> Partly, she also wants access to a disc which was formatted
> by Windows NT, and which she considers she has no access to
> at present. (Not quite true, but I try not to argue with her
> very much. It is true that she has some apps on there which
> won't run under Debian.)

ntfs-3g if it is ntfs.

> 
> I dunno how much progress will be made, even if I can make
> everything work by Saturday evening. She seems kinda to have
> made up her mind. I have, um, limited influence over her
> behavior. :-)

Well, the windows' been bought already...


-- 
Gabriel Parrondo
GNU/Linux User #404138
GnuPG Public Key ID: BED7BF43
JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

"The only difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there's no 
difference between theory and practice."


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Re: Is it possible to keep a program running even when when no users are logged in

[Masatran, R. Deepak]

* Sid Arth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 2007-09-25
> I want to have rtorrent running in the background once I turn it on
> via ssh. Is there a way to keep rtorrent running even after I close
> the session?

Nohup, Screen, and VNC (in increasing order of complexity). I have a small
introduction to screen at .

-- 
Masatran, R. Deepak 



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Re: Tool for document management

[Charlie]

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007, Manoj Srivastava shared this with us all:
>--} On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:05:53 -0700, David Brodbeck
>--} <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>--}
>--} > On Sep 24, 2007, at 9:39 PM, Russell L. Harris wrote:
>--} >> I use XEMacs daily to produce LaTeX documents.  I have frequent need
>--} >> to search my archives of material I have written in the past, and I
>--} >> use grep for this purpose.  It is difficult for me to imagine an
>--} >> advantage offered by OpenOffice which would compensate for the
>--} >> inability to make use of grep in searching my archives.
>--}
>--} > I think it depends on what you're doing.  TeX is awesome for writing
>--} > books and scientific papers.  If you're writing a letter to Grandma,
>--} > though, OpenOffice is better suited.  Using TeX for that is a bit like
>--} > driving a semi truck to the supermarket to pick up a bottle of milk.
>--}
>--} I dunno.  I have a template for letters all created, with my
>--}  address, salutations, etc. It prints out an envelope for me as well,
>--}  All I have to do is type in the content, and the destination.
>--}
>--} Far, far faster than using openoffice, if you ask me.
>--}
>--} manoj

I also find using lyx is great for that. Using templates very fast, very clean 
and all the virtues of great printing and exporting into all kind of file 
formats for emailing.

Charlie
-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
+++
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I will call life which is required 
to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run. 
.Henry David Thoreau
<<<>
Debian - Just the best way to do magic.


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Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)

[Russell L. Harris]

* Peter Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070926 00:35]:
> If you write in latex you can always convert to RTF via latex2rtf, which in 
> my experience works excellently. If needed, it is no big deal to convert 
> this to word format. It is definitely worth the effort to learn latex.

This afternoon, out of curiosity, I installed latex2rtf and ran it on
a typical document of the variety which I routinely produce.  The
document has a header, a footer, page numbers, two columns, and
footnotes.  The resulting RTF document was crude to the point of being
laughable, and was unusable.

I then spent an hour or so with Google, searching for alternative
approaches.  The most promising seems to be first to convert from
LaTeX to HTML, and then to convert from HTML to M$ Word .doc format.

In previous experimentation, I determined that, for the type of
documents I create, HeVeA is by far the best solution for converting
from LaTeX to HTML.  The header detail cannot be reproduced in HTML,
and the output is in a single column, but these losses are
insignificant for my application.  HeVeA is marvelous in its handling
of footnotes and the table of contents.  And HeVeA has been carefully
designed for compatibility with LaTeX, so there is no need to maintain
parallel versions (LaTeX and HTML) of my source documents.

So now the problem becomes how to convert the HTML produced by HeVeA
into RTF or another format which M$ Word can read -- preferably within
the Debian environment, and preferably with open-source software.
In another hour searching with Google, I came across only one potential
solution.

RLH


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Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)

[Peter Robinson]

Steve Lamb wrote:

Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
  

The output is PostScript
so I kept a copy of GhostView (gv) running (watching the file) and
whenever I wanted to see how things looked, just ran lout on my file to
the same output file name.



Yeahhh, no thanks.  I don't like coding HTML with the produce and peek
method of screwing it up.

  

Talk to your publisher.



This presumes I have a publisher.  I never said I did.  I pointed out
that it appears that submissions are desired in two formats. 
Implication being that when I am done with my work I'll be submitting it

to different places in the hopes of getting it picked up.  Since I am
unaware of what company, if any, I will end up with I cannot make any
presumptions about any format they will accept outside of the lowest
common denominator.  Word, plain text or printed manuscript.
  


If you write in latex you can always convert to RTF via latex2rtf, which 
in my experience works excellently. If needed, it is no big deal to 
convert this to word format. It is definitely worth the effort to learn 
latex.

cheers, peter


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Re: wireless keyboard encryption

[Celejar]

[catching up on a d-u backlog]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 02:23:07 -0600
Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

[snip]

> I think you'll find that even "good" wireless keyboards won't easily  
> penetrate more than a single wall of your home, and won't extend very  
> far past an exterior wall in most setups, if at all.  I can't even  
> put the receiver under the 1 1/2" thick wooden desk on top of the  
> computer without some glitches -- these devices use VERY low RF  
> output... at least the ones I own.

Doesn't penetration vary *inversely* with the frequency?

> Nate Duehr
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Celejar
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Re: How do I know debian has detected all my hardware?

[Kevin Mark]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 09:21:18PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 09/25/07 18:44, Kevin Mark wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 02:29:45AM -0700, Amit Uttamchandani
> > wrote:
> >> Hey guys,
> >> 
> >> I recently installed etch on this old laptop and have no
> >> problems with it whatsoever. I had no hardware issues or
> >> anything. It "seemed" like all the hardware was automatically
> >> detected. Now the question is, how do I know for sure? I know I
> >> could use lspci or something like that. But what do you guys
> >> suggest? I mean is there a "System Profiler" / "Device Manager"
> >> under linux?
> >> 
> >> Thanks!
> >> 
> > In Gnome, look at: 'System' menu->preferences->Hardware info 
> 
> Really?  I don't see it.
> 
mea cupla. I'm using Gutsy, I assumed gnome on Debian was the same.
Although I recall gnome on Debian having it but maybe with a different
menu setup.
-K
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Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)

[Steve Lamb]

Rob Mahurin wrote:
> I know you've settled on OOo, but it's worth pointing out that TeX is
> a simple language if you're writing a simple document.  In particular
> you are already writing valid plain TeX in your email.  Copy the above
> (without the >'s) into file.txt; change /'thinking'/ to {\it thinking}
> and "saying" to ``saying''; type "pdftex file.txt" and "\end".
> file.pdf looks like http://sns.phys.utk.edu/~mahurin/du/09-25.pdf,
> which I think is what you're after.

Uh, no.  It's more than that.  You're forgetting loading in the templates
and the entire structure.  You're also ignoring that CNTL-I is a tad shorter
than {\it}, esp. since \ is way out of the way of my normal typing habits.
Then there's the problem of most of the common symbols one just might want to
use in a work of fiction are reserved in LaTeX so they need to be escaped with
\.  Well, except \ itself which requires a special macro.  Oh, and it
completely ignores the two facts that I want to work on this document
visually, not conceptually, AND that I *NEED* to be able to revert it to the
proprietary format used by Word which, in a quick Google check, seems to
require at minimum of a shareware product!

After all this talk I decided to cure my ignorance of LaTeX and actually
go to the main site and read the first two chapters.  The two chapters, I
might add, that the document itself states is all that is needed to write a
basic paper.  I am, quite frankly, appalled that anyone would consider LaTeX
in any way an appropriate suggestion to someone who has stated, repeatedly,
the above requirements.

Furthermore I fail to see this supposed "don't think about the formatting"
simplicity when I can't even write a simple financial value without resorting
to escapes!  I *HAVE* to think about the formatting lest I trip up on one of
the language's reserved clauses!  I hate to break it you but I do not want to
be thinking about matching braces and proper escapes when I am trying to
figure out the right words to describe one of my antagonists reactions to a
bit of bad news delivered by a side-flipping protagonist.  What I care about
at that point is how to I describe his reaction without TELLING my audience
what that reaction is.

-- 
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   PGP Key: 8B6E99C5   |   And dream I do...
---+-



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Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges"

[Celejar]

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:50:44 -0500
Mike McCarty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Ron Johnson wrote:

[snipped the on-topic stuff]

> > Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
> > Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!
> 
> Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
> Teach a man to fish, and he'll sit in a boat and drink
> beer for a day.

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2007/07/msg01537.html

> Mike

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Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges"

[Mike McCarty]

Ron Johnson wrote:


On 09/25/07 21:33, Mike McCarty wrote:


[snip]


USB keyboard?  (I've always been leery of them, because of the
mutually-exclusive HID and {o,u}chi drivers.


Oops! I somehow neglected to specify...
PS/2 style keyboard
PS/2 style mouse
Keyboard works

PS/2 style keyboard
USB style mouse
Keyboard stops working

Same setup works with you-know-what.

["snip no fix yet"s]


Another issue which has never been posted: She installed more
memory. She had 512 MB RAM, and now has 1.5 Gig. Unfortunately,
Debian seems only to recognize just under 1.0 Gig. I haven't
looked on the web for a fix for that, so I haven't posted
here. Part of the reason I haven't gone searching for a
solution, is that her reaction to that was to purchase a copy
of Windows XP.


That's easy to solve.  Will require a kernel rebuild, though.

However, Debian kernels have had CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G=y for quite some
time now.  More than a year.


Ok, so how does one get a newer kernel, install it, and get
all the memory available?


She's sorta impulsive, sometimes.

Partly, she also wants access to a disc which was formatted
by Windows NT, and which she considers she has no access to
at present.


libntfs-3g12.  Will need a FUSE-enabled kernel.


Again, how to obtain and install? I believe it is already
mountable and readable.

[snip]


Certain things will work wonderfully for her.  She'll discover,
though, that the grass isn't greener, just a different variety.


She's quite familiar with Windows XP. She uses it at work.




 She seems kinda to have
made up her mind. I have, um, limited influence over her
behavior. :-)


You need a more compliant girlfriend.  Lucy Liu-bot comes to mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Dated_a_Robot


:-)


Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!


Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Teach a man to fish, and he'll sit in a boat and drink
beer for a day.

Mike
--
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Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!


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Re: Search for string in files

[William Pursell]

Johannes Tax wrote:


I'm trying to figure out how to find a certain string inside a bunch of
files. If I, for examples, look for a certain function in a large source
tree, I could do

cat `find . -name '*.c'` | grep 'a_certain_function'

but this seems quite awkward, furthermore it doesn't help that much
because I don't know in which file the string was found. Maybe there's a
tool that makes it possible to find a string in a bunch of files and
also to list in which file the string was found? Or any modification to
the command given above?


I realize this is over a month old, but I've been away.  All of
the responses I saw to your question failed to mention ctags.  ctags
doesn't address the general question of finding a string inside
multiple files, but it very well answers the specific question
of finding a function definition in a tree of C source files.
To get directly to the function definition of a_certain_function,
the following will work:

% ctags -R
% vi -t a_certain_function

If you just want to cat the file, try:

% cat $(grep a_certain_function tags | cut -f 2)

(After you've run ctags to build the tags file)



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Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges"

[Celejar]

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:10:17 -0500
Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

[snip]

> USB keyboard?  (I've always been leery of them, because of the
> mutually-exclusive HID and {o,u}chi drivers.

I use a Dell USB keyboard, scavenged from an old desktop.  It "just
works":

> usb 1-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 2
> usb 1-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
> hub 1-1:1.0: USB hub found
> hub 1-1:1.0: 3 ports detected
> usb 1-1.1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 3
> usb 1-1.1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
> input: NMB Dell USB 7HK Keyboard as /class/input/input6
> input: USB HID v1.00 Keyboard [NMB Dell USB 7HK Keyboard] on 
> usb-:00:1d.0-1.1
> input: NMB Dell USB 7HK Keyboard as /class/input/input7
> input: USB HID v1.00 Device [NMB Dell USB 7HK Keyboard] on 
> usb-:00:1d.0-1.1
> usbcore: registered new interface driver usbhid
> drivers/hid/usbhid/hid-core.c: v2.6:USB HID core driver

I haven't had to do any sort of configuration or tweaking whatsoever.
I'm willing to accept that I may just be lucky.

> Ron Johnson, Jr.

Celejar
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Re: Is it possible to keep a program running even when when no users are logged in

[Celejar]

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:26:06 +0800
Jerome BENOIT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> you can launch jobs with at as well.

I don't think ncurses apps will necessarily run successfully via at; mc
doesn't, and I think I recall that rtorrent itself didn't (it isn't
currently installed).

> hth,
> Jerome

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Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges"

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 09/25/07 21:33, Mike McCarty wrote:
> These have (nearly) all been posted before, but some have requested
> that they be reposted. If you don't like reading stuff
> YET AGAIN, then just skip this message, please.
> 
> My GF installed a USB mouse, and her keyboard went away.
> They work together with THE OTHER OS. IIRC (it's been
> a while) using a debug startup allows us to get up to
> a root login, and look around, but using ^D from there
> makes the keyboard go away. I can't tell if this is
> an X Window problem, or below that, or what. The current
> work around is to use an old PS/2 style mouse. The symptoms
> are just as if the keyboard were unplugged. There is no
> response whatsoever.

USB keyboard?  (I've always been leery of them, because of the
mutually-exclusive HID and {o,u}chi drivers.

> My GF also can't mount a memory stick using a Dazzle
> USB I/F through a hub. A regular disc (Western Digital)
> mounts and runs fine on the same hub. When the Dazzle
> is plugged directly into the USB port on the machine,
> it can be mounted. This is extremely inconvenient, as

I remember that thread.  There are definitely "issues" with hubs and
passive devices like memory sticks.

[snip]
> 
> So far, she's unable to get her printer to full functionality.
> I kludged up a printer description which sorta works, but
> not fully. It's an HP, but I don't at present recall the
> exact model number. It is a combined Printer/FAX/Scanner.
> So far, it just prints either in greyscale or color, depending
> on how we've edited queue at the moment. We can't select different
> print quality, color/greyscale, or any other options except by
> editing the one queue associated with it.

M/F printers have *always* been problematic under Linux.

>   It is also supposed
> to be able to read and print camera memory sticks, but that
> only works in stand-alone mode, with no way to get the info
> from the printer to the computer. Supposedly, this works
> with THE OTHER OS, though that is unverified. Anyway, at
> present it's running with my kludgy edit of another printer
> description file, not one from Debian, and just as a simple
> printer, it can't even do a realign. None of the other
> functions are currently usable.

I doubt you'll ever find a solution until HP creates OSS drivers for
hylafax and SANE.

> Another issue which has never been posted: She installed more
> memory. She had 512 MB RAM, and now has 1.5 Gig. Unfortunately,
> Debian seems only to recognize just under 1.0 Gig. I haven't
> looked on the web for a fix for that, so I haven't posted
> here. Part of the reason I haven't gone searching for a
> solution, is that her reaction to that was to purchase a copy
> of Windows XP.

That's easy to solve.  Will require a kernel rebuild, though.

However, Debian kernels have had CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G=y for quite some
time now.  More than a year.

> She's sorta impulsive, sometimes.
> 
> Partly, she also wants access to a disc which was formatted
> by Windows NT, and which she considers she has no access to
> at present.

libntfs-3g12.  Will need a FUSE-enabled kernel.

>(Not quite true, but I try not to argue with her
> very much.

Tsk tsk tsk.

>  It is true that she has some apps on there which
> won't run under Debian.)

Well duh.

> I dunno how much progress will be made, even if I can make
> everything work by Saturday evening.

Certain things will work wonderfully for her.  She'll discover,
though, that the grass isn't greener, just a different variety.

>  She seems kinda to have
> made up her mind. I have, um, limited influence over her
> behavior. :-)

You need a more compliant girlfriend.  Lucy Liu-bot comes to mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Dated_a_Robot

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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Re: Debian install to Inspiron 530 with SATA DVD drive

[Simon]

On 9/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Quoting Simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > Hi There,
> >
> > We are trying to install debian etch onto our Inspiron 530 that has a
> > SATA DVD drive, but the installer cannot detect the CD drive once it
> > is booted. How do i move forward here?
> >
>
> Sounds like etch doesn't have the drivers for your sata controller.
> er... or should I say the kernel doesn't have the drivers.
> The default kernel for etch is 2.6.18, try using a lenny(testing) or
> sid(unstable) installer with a more recent kernel. 2.6.22 or higher
> kernel will probably find your sata controller.

Thanks for that... have downloaded the lastest snapshot and it booted
no issues. Now it wont find the network card. sigh... its a intel
e1000 i think.

Is it easier to just put a new network card in it?

Simon


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Re: Debian may lose a user

[Kevin Mark]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 09:17:05PM -0500, cothrige wrote:
> Mike McCarty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 

> I believe that is what the poster above was saying, and most likely you
> understood him as being defensive or confrontational.  I really don't
> think the people here are trying to be in any way argumentative, but
> rather are asking for more info, even if you aren't going to be here to
> hear the answers.  It is just a natural desire to see what mistakes were
> made, specifically, so that they are not made again.  I personally think
> it is a wonderful sentiment to fill people in on a failure, but if
> nobody can know how they failed, then really what good is the
> information?
> 
> At least that is how I would percieve this situation.

I dont'think anyone here did anything wrong and I dont think he was
implying that. There are many thing that a list like this can do like
respond to users request for help and provide insights, answers or
alternatives. But maybe this problems the person had have no current
answer at all or the one person who knew the answer missed the post. One
thing that many people want is an answer in a limited amount of time,
this list is not suited to a demanding user who perhaps will lose a
client or money as a result, that is the domain of paid support. If the
issue can be worked around or tolerated for a few months, then this list
is fine. Like many DD, we too must balance our lives and trying to fix
ever users issue would drive folks to drink, so there has to be an
expectation that we list readers will miss stuff. This is no ones fault.
Cheers,
Kev
-- 
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Re: Is it possible to keep a program running even when when no users are logged in

[Gabriel Parrondo]

El mar, 25-09-2007 a las 22:57 -0400, Guillermo Garron escribió:
> On 9/25/07, Sid Arth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I want to have rtorrent running in the background once I turn it on
> > via ssh. Is there a way to keep rtorrent running even after I close
> > the session?
> 
> I like to use ctorrent,
> 
> http://www.go2linux.org/Command-line-Bit-Torrent-client-for-Linux-written-in-c-
> 
> and a way to keep it running (works with all other software) is to
> append a "&" (no qoutes) at the end of the command, so it should be
> this way.
> 
> $command -options &
> 

I don't think that would work. That way the command 'command' will run
as son of your shell session. When you close your session it will
probably die (maybe not, depends on how the software works).
That's why you need nohup or screen.


-- 
Gabriel Parrondo
GNU/Linux User #404138
GnuPG Public Key ID: BED7BF43
JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

"The only difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there's no 
difference between theory and practice."


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Re: Debian may lose a user

[Kevin Mark]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 11:55:26AM -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
> I have some feedback about my GF who uses Debian at my suggestion.
> I have no irons in the fire on this one, as I don't use Debian,
> though I do administer her machine for her. So, please don't take
> this as a complaint from me, as it isn't. I'm simply informing
> the Debian forum of a situation.
>
> She's had four problems with using Debian on her machine,
> and support response from this forum has been somewhat less
> than she had hoped for.

There are different levels of support for what ever you use.
Microsoft and its partners get the specs they need and produce
reasonable support for hardware and since they are not open source, they
can not be improved by others. So driver support can vary greatly.
Software is in a similar situation as is the Operating system. And
commercial support cost real money. IIRC MS had something like 150 USD
for one support call and there is no gauruntee of the outcome. But if
the issue is hardware support, then driver support is going to be, on
average, useable out-of-the-box. And similarly if you have software
needs that align with already existing products, then that too will
work out-of-the-box. 

Now distros are of varying quality and have varying support. Debian is
known to have mostly volunteer support with commercial support mostly
for server use which would probably have costs on par with windows
server support. If you used Ubuntu, you'd have out-of-the-box a
commercial support option targeted for home/soho users which IIRC costs
150 USD/ year, which seems quite reasonable. Now with Free software, at
present, there are many problems that simply have no solution regardless
of which one you choose and so the only 'support' option is to pay a
large sum of money or wait until that magic day. I recently heard that
'evince' now support the ability to fill-in pdf forms. I have wanted
this for some years and only using Adobe´s regular product to do this
with the help of WINE, now, as of this month, this feture is part of a
free software tool. One of the issue with MS and Apple is they have
limited support for hardware and software. So if you have something less
that 4 years old. you should be ok. But the farther out you go, there is
an increasing change that floss support will be on-par or better. So if
your SO buys/has recent HW and has software needs in-line with current
products, then XP may be the way to go. The benefits of FLOSS are know
to you and you may have explained them to your SO but if she can't get
her work done, that is the ultimate arbitrator.



> I used the "official" reporting tool on one of the problems,
> and we were not even accorded the courtesy of a response
> indicating that the report had been received and was going
> to be acted upon. The tool did confirm that a report had
> been made, but that was all. I've seen no indication from
> Debian that any progress has been made.

One of the issue discussed on -devel was something similar. Some feel
that every bug report should have a human responding saying 'thanks for
your bug report´, other wanted an automated response. It was noted that
not all bug reports are equal, so it was mentioned that if a DD wanted
better info, they should send out a message asking for it and make
'contact' with the bug reporter because users dont feel appreciated
when they are not contacted and thanked and made to feel an equal part
of Debian. So a thanked user is more apt to give more bug reports and
more likely to give better reports if asked by a nice dd. But since its
not 'policy', its not something that is required. There is the obvious
situation where DD have real lives and can not respond to every user,
But some said that they should respond within say 1 or 2 week if possible,
if not able to sooner. Someone suggest that there to a team of people
whose job is to monitor new bugs and acknowledge users contributions and
triage bugs with the users help. So in the area of user-bts-DD
interaction, there is room more improvement. Perhaphs the paid support
of Canonical would fill this gap, thus the Ubuntu recommendation.

One final note, at least she is aware of the existance of FLOSS and that
it was able to fulfill most of her needs and when those issues that she
had are resolved, she might be game to take the plunge. It also means
that she is one more person who can be witness to the fact that FLOSS is
not what the general population thinks it is, useless and not ready for
general use.

cheers,
Kev
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Re: Is it possible to keep a program running even when when no users are logged in

[Guillermo Garron]

On 9/25/07, Sid Arth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I want to have rtorrent running in the background once I turn it on
> via ssh. Is there a way to keep rtorrent running even after I close
> the session?

I like to use ctorrent,

http://www.go2linux.org/Command-line-Bit-Torrent-client-for-Linux-written-in-c-

and a way to keep it running (works with all other software) is to
append a "&" (no qoutes) at the end of the command, so it should be
this way.

$command -options &

hope that helps.

Guillermo Garron


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Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 09/25/07 19:27, Steve Lamb wrote:
[snip]
> 
> Am I writing a book?  Yes.
> 
> Am I writing a technical book?  No!
> 
> I am writing fiction.  I have no in-line graphics, complex font changes
> for examples, silly little icons to denote special sections, massive
> indention or the like.  This is strictly line-after-line prose which
> could be done plain text except for the fact that I am making use of
> italics as a conscious style choice to reinforce when a character is
> /'thinking'/ something versus "saying" something.
> 
> So, as I had repeated several times, I'm sure LaTeX is wonderful for
> what it is designed for.  However it is not something I am interested in
> learning for the purposes I would put it to at this time.  The constant
> hammering with examples which are far beyond the requirements of the
> style I writing I am engaging in is getting a tad tiresome.  I want
> WYSIWYG because it helps me think about what is happening.  I want
> simple and easy-to-convert to a common format because I don't know if
> and by whom this project would be picked up.  I don't want a complex

Lyx, texlive-latex-recommended (for the memoir and rcs plugins) and
tex4ht (for exporting to Word or odt format) are what you want, then.

Create a simple template (/memoir/, from texlive-latex-recommended)
should point you in the right direction), and then start typing im
the GUI window.

Since it's plain multi-line text, mercurial won't have any problem
diffing the file and saving the changes.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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Re: Debian may lose a user

[Mike McCarty]

Roger B.A. Klorese wrote:


Well, yes, but it remains to be seen whether everyone considers this 
"room for improvement."  A lot of projects and products spend a lot of 
time working on non-goals; the question at hand is whether adoption by 
the level of user in question is or is not a goal.


I'm sure Debian doesn't depend on any one user. I'm also
sure that she's not the only one like her.

Anyway, I think this thread has probably already gone on
too long.

Mike
--
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This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!


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Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)

[Rob Mahurin]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 05:27:02PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> Good thing that what I'm writing is not at all complex.  The two most
> complex things are italics and indent-first-line.
[...]
> Am I writing a book?  Yes.
> 
> Am I writing a technical book?  No!
> 
> I am writing fiction.  I have no in-line graphics, complex font changes
> for examples, silly little icons to denote special sections, massive
> indention or the like.  This is strictly line-after-line prose which
> could be done plain text except for the fact that I am making use of
> italics as a conscious style choice to reinforce when a character is
> /'thinking'/ something versus "saying" something.

I know you've settled on OOo, but it's worth pointing out that TeX is
a simple language if you're writing a simple document.  In particular
you are already writing valid plain TeX in your email.  Copy the above
(without the >'s) into file.txt; change /'thinking'/ to {\it thinking}
and "saying" to ``saying''; type "pdftex file.txt" and "\end".
file.pdf looks like http://sns.phys.utk.edu/~mahurin/du/09-25.pdf,
which I think is what you're after.

Good luck with your writing.

Rob

-- 
Rob Mahurin
Dept. of Physics & Astronomy
University of Tennessee phone:  865 207 2594
Knoxville, TN  37996email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Debian may lose a user

[Mike McCarty]

cothrige wrote:


After walking in from a day of my kids' soccer matches I noticed this
thread and feel I really must post a comment.  I may be very late to


It seems like just one of those things, doesn't it :-)

[snip]


which posts or questions were those being talked about here.  Really,
with everything being discussed here how could everybody notice and
remember every thread?


Of course not.


I also think everyone here has a desire for Linux to be a viable
alternative to Windows (I happen to believe it already is one since I in
fact use it instead of that OS) and so would certainly assume your


Umm, some comments I've received cause me to believe that not
everyone here is like that.

In any case, my desire was not to ask for help, as that's
already been done before. My intent was to inform of what
kinds of considerations went into the decision of one Debian
user to switch to Windows XP. I wasn't making a last moment
plea for help to try to keep her on Debian, nor trying to
criticize Debian devel group nor any of the users nor other
members of this forum. I'm not sure but what her reaction would
be the same for any Linux distro. Ecah has its strong points
and weak points. I've used several, and none is clearly
better than all the others for everyone.

[snip]


I believe that is what the poster above was saying, and most likely you
understood him as being defensive or confrontational.  I really don't
think the people here are trying to be in any way argumentative, but
rather are asking for more info, even if you aren't going to be here to
hear the answers.  It is just a natural desire to see what mistakes were


See my other message which lists the challenges for Debian with
her hardware setup. They have been mentioned before (except for
the RAM upgrade, which occurred just a few weeks ago), but I
repost them just for those who have interest.

Whether having fixes by Saturday will cause her to retain
Debian is a debatable point. I suspect that Windows XP is
going on this machine, and that's the end of the matter.
Even if Debian survives as a boot option, and the machine
becomes dual boot, I suspect that Debian will not get booted
very often, if at all.

I intend to make a backup before doing anything drastic,
at least. I may just make a tar of the entire disc using
Knoppix or sth like that as well.

Mike
--
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Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!


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Re: Is it possible to keep a program running even when when no users are logged in

[Sid Arth]

Thanks its working perfectly

On 9/25/07, Jerome BENOIT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> you can launch jobs with at as well.
>
> hth,
> Jerome


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Repost of some earlier described "challenges"

[Mike McCarty]

These have (nearly) all been posted before, but some have requested
that they be reposted. If you don't like reading stuff
YET AGAIN, then just skip this message, please.

My GF installed a USB mouse, and her keyboard went away.
They work together with THE OTHER OS. IIRC (it's been
a while) using a debug startup allows us to get up to
a root login, and look around, but using ^D from there
makes the keyboard go away. I can't tell if this is
an X Window problem, or below that, or what. The current
work around is to use an old PS/2 style mouse. The symptoms
are just as if the keyboard were unplugged. There is no
response whatsoever.

My GF also can't mount a memory stick using a Dazzle
USB I/F through a hub. A regular disc (Western Digital)
mounts and runs fine on the same hub. When the Dazzle
is plugged directly into the USB port on the machine,
it can be mounted. This is extremely inconvenient, as
all the USB ports on this machine are in the back,
and it is inside an armoir. The workaround is to pull
the machine out of the armoir, and leave it hanging
out, and plug the Dazzle into the USB. This is something
I have to do, as she is mobility impaired (paraplegic).
Since I live several miles away, this is quite inconvenient.
Another work around is to use the same hub and Dazzle
I/F with Windows on a laptop, then e-mail herself using a dial-
up connection, to an account she can read with Debian. This
is slow, clumsy, and inconvenient as well.

She can't associate multiple queues with a single printer,
but there is already another thread about that. There is
currently no work around, but there is hope that using the
CUPS I/F directly may work.

So far, she's unable to get her printer to full functionality.
I kludged up a printer description which sorta works, but
not fully. It's an HP, but I don't at present recall the
exact model number. It is a combined Printer/FAX/Scanner.
So far, it just prints either in greyscale or color, depending
on how we've edited queue at the moment. We can't select different
print quality, color/greyscale, or any other options except by
editing the one queue associated with it. It is also supposed
to be able to read and print camera memory sticks, but that
only works in stand-alone mode, with no way to get the info
from the printer to the computer. Supposedly, this works
with THE OTHER OS, though that is unverified. Anyway, at
present it's running with my kludgy edit of another printer
description file, not one from Debian, and just as a simple
printer, it can't even do a realign. None of the other
functions are currently usable.

Another issue which has never been posted: She installed more
memory. She had 512 MB RAM, and now has 1.5 Gig. Unfortunately,
Debian seems only to recognize just under 1.0 Gig. I haven't
looked on the web for a fix for that, so I haven't posted
here. Part of the reason I haven't gone searching for a
solution, is that her reaction to that was to purchase a copy
of Windows XP.

She's sorta impulsive, sometimes.

Partly, she also wants access to a disc which was formatted
by Windows NT, and which she considers she has no access to
at present. (Not quite true, but I try not to argue with her
very much. It is true that she has some apps on there which
won't run under Debian.)

I dunno how much progress will be made, even if I can make
everything work by Saturday evening. She seems kinda to have
made up her mind. I have, um, limited influence over her
behavior. :-)

Mike
--
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
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Re: Tool for document management

[John Hasler]

David Brodbeck writes:
> TeX is awesome for writing books and scientific papers.  If you're
> writing a letter to Grandma, though, OpenOffice is better suited.

Now _that_ sounds like driving a semi truck to the supermarket to pick up a
bottle of milk.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 09/25/07 19:11, David Brodbeck wrote:
[snip]
> changes.  About the time we hit the 650 page mark, Word started
> corrupting the file and it became impossible to go through more than a
> few edit/save cycles before the file became unreadable and we had to
> restore from backup.

A single 650 page .doc file???  I'm more than impressed.

> In a proper typesetting program, changing the format of a heading means
> changing the template -- once -- and then regenerating the document.  It
> does the drudgery of maintaining consistency for you.

OOo has similar DTP-like template functionality.


- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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Re: How do I know debian has detected all my hardware?

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 09/25/07 18:44, Kevin Mark wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 02:29:45AM -0700, Amit Uttamchandani
> wrote:
>> Hey guys,
>> 
>> I recently installed etch on this old laptop and have no
>> problems with it whatsoever. I had no hardware issues or
>> anything. It "seemed" like all the hardware was automatically
>> detected. Now the question is, how do I know for sure? I know I
>> could use lspci or something like that. But what do you guys
>> suggest? I mean is there a "System Profiler" / "Device Manager"
>> under linux?
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
> In Gnome, look at: 'System' menu->preferences->Hardware info 

Really?  I don't see it.

> There is a similar one in Kde.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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Re: Debian may lose a user

[cothrige]

Mike McCarty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> John Hasler wrote:
>>
>> I don't see that you provided any useful information.
>
> Then it wasn't directed at you.
>
> There are those here who have expressed a desire for Linux
> to be a viable alternative to Windows for more users. It was
> directed at those people.

After walking in from a day of my kids' soccer matches I noticed this
thread and feel I really must post a comment.  I may be very late to
this, and if so I apologize, but it just seems to me that there is
likely a miscommunication going on here.  I can't help but think that
most people on this list would actually very much welcome the criticism
which seems to be on offer regarding this situation, but surely
everybody would also like to know what they did wrong, so to speak.  I
for one get at least a hundred or two messages on this list per day,
probably more, and certainly wouldn't know from the above references
which posts or questions were those being talked about here.  Really,
with everything being discussed here how could everybody notice and
remember every thread?

I also think everyone here has a desire for Linux to be a viable
alternative to Windows (I happen to believe it already is one since I in
fact use it instead of that OS) and so would certainly assume your
comments were directed at them.  The people on this list are here quite
obviously because they believe in what is done here, and that seems to
most often be offer help to others.  But, honestly, regardless of how
well-intentioned the posts, just how can anyone improve with such
esoteric comments?

I believe that is what the poster above was saying, and most likely you
understood him as being defensive or confrontational.  I really don't
think the people here are trying to be in any way argumentative, but
rather are asking for more info, even if you aren't going to be here to
hear the answers.  It is just a natural desire to see what mistakes were
made, specifically, so that they are not made again.  I personally think
it is a wonderful sentiment to fill people in on a failure, but if
nobody can know how they failed, then really what good is the
information?

At least that is how I would percieve this situation.

Patrick


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Re: Debian may lose a user

[s. keeling]

Roger B.A. Klorese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  Kent West wrote:
> > Like he said, he's not complaining, or asking for help, or asking for 
> > information; he's just saying that we have room for improvement.
> 
>  Well, yes, but it remains to be seen whether everyone considers this 
>  "room for improvement."  A lot of projects and products spend a lot of 
>  time working on non-goals; the question at hand is whether adoption by 
>  the level of user in question is or is not a goal.

Well, he did clarify that she's not a total computer noob.  I think
she'd be most happy on an iMac.


-- 
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Re: Debian install to Inspiron 530 with SATA DVD drive

[michael]

Quoting Simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


Hi There,

We are trying to install debian etch onto our Inspiron 530 that has a
SATA DVD drive, but the installer cannot detect the CD drive once it
is booted. How do i move forward here?



Sounds like etch doesn't have the drivers for your sata controller.
er... or should I say the kernel doesn't have the drivers.
The default kernel for etch is 2.6.18, try using a lenny(testing) or  
sid(unstable) installer with a more recent kernel. 2.6.22 or higher  
kernel will probably find your sata controller.


http://www.us.debian.org/releases/

http://www.us.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/

http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#unstable-images



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Re: Debian may lose a user

[s. keeling]

Mike McCarty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  Martin Marcher wrote:
> 
>  Why is it that simple statments, preceded by disclaimers
>  indicating that they are not complaints, get treated as
>  complaints?
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I'm interested in the job offer you posted on
> 
>  Sarcasm is unbecoming, especially since I am a disinterested third
>  party.

I thought it was pretty funny.  I like his rate too.  I'm gonna have
to talk to my recruiter.


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Re: Tool for document management

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:05:53 -0700, David Brodbeck
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:  

> On Sep 24, 2007, at 9:39 PM, Russell L. Harris wrote:
>> I use XEMacs daily to produce LaTeX documents.  I have frequent need
>> to search my archives of material I have written in the past, and I
>> use grep for this purpose.  It is difficult for me to imagine an
>> advantage offered by OpenOffice which would compensate for the
>> inability to make use of grep in searching my archives.

> I think it depends on what you're doing.  TeX is awesome for writing
> books and scientific papers.  If you're writing a letter to Grandma,
> though, OpenOffice is better suited.  Using TeX for that is a bit like
> driving a semi truck to the supermarket to pick up a bottle of milk.

I dunno.  I have a template for letters all created, with my
 address, salutations, etc. It prints out an envelope for me as well,
 All I have to do is type in the content, and the destination.

Far, far faster than using openoffice, if you ask me.

manoj
-- 
"When anyone says `theoretically,' they really mean `not really.'" David
Parnas
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


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Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues with one printer: HOW?

[Mike McCarty]

Wayne Topa wrote:

Mike McCarty([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:


[that he couldn's use the GUI to put multiple queues on one printer]


I don't run Gnome or KDE here I hope they accept the Cups config.
If not, someone someone that does run them, should submit a bug
report.


CUPS Administration -> Add Printer
All of the options, except the printer name, are the same as the one
you already have, (IIRC).  Then change the options to be what you want.

Ok. Where do I locate the CUPS Administration? Do you mean use
the "web based" CUPS location via web browser on the local machine?


Yep,  http://localhost:631/printers/


I've printed off the CUPS docu from their home page, and
I'll give the web or CLI another try tomorrow night. (If
she'll let me, that is :-)

Thanks!

Mike
--
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Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!


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Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues with one printer: HOW?

[Mike McCarty]

Gabriel Parrondo wrote:

El mar, 25-09-2007 a las 18:43 -0500, Mike McCarty escribió:

Works on my distro. I can't get it to work with Debian.



Cool! What distro is that? What version of gnome does it run?
Maybe it's running a newer version that didn't hit debian yet.


I'm normally not into going on a distro support list, and
then telling them that some other distro is better. Kinda
rude, y'know? Each distro has its advantages and disadvantages.
No distro is better'n another in all ways for all people.

But, since you ask, specifically, I'm using GDM 2.6.0.0
which is considered rather old for the distro I'm using.

I haven't checked the version for Debian.

Mike
--
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This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!


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Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues with one printer: HOW?

[Mike McCarty]

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 06:43:47PM -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:

Gabriel Parrondo wrote:

Why are you saying the version shipped with Debian is broken? Have you
tried it on other distros and it's different?

Yes.

[snip]


This is gnome, love it or leave it!

Works on my distro. I can't get it to work with Debian.


what does it do Mike? details man!


It's difficult to remember now, but what I recall was that
I tried starting the GUI, and selected "Add new printer"
or sth like that. When I tried to create the new instance,
I was not allowed to select the one which was already
there. It wanted me to enter a whole new connection,
name, type, etc. Trying to create a new printer with
a new name but the same connection was also refused.
It appeared not to understand what I was trying to do.
It seemed to think that it was some sort of error to try
to associate multiple queues with one physical printer
connection.

On another distro, this is not a restriction.

Mike
--
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Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!


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Re: Is it possible to keep a program running even when when no users are logged in

[Jerome BENOIT]

Hello,

you can launch jobs with at as well.

hth,
Jerome

Gabriel Parrondo wrote:

El mar, 25-09-2007 a las 19:23 -0500, Sid Arth escribió:

What is screen?



apt-cache show screen

It let's you do a lot of fancy stuff in the terminal (have multiple
windows, detach the session and reattach it, copy/paste with the
keyboard and a lot of other stuff).

It's exactly what you need.



BTW, please don't make top-posting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting

[...]


--
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jgmbenoit_at_mailsnare_dot_net

Re: Debian may lose a user

[s. keeling]

Mike McCarty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  Mike Bird wrote:
> > On Tuesday 25 September 2007 12:45, Mike McCarty wrote:
> >> I'm not trying to be mean, either. I'm reporting a single event.
> > 
> > We're all volunteers here.  You too.  If you find time I guess
> > some of us would appreciate your posting links to the previous
> 
>  I was deliberately not posting the problems, since that
>  might look like a complaint. I'm not trying to get action.

Argh!  We're Debian.  We're trying to get action!

fsck it!  groups.google.com --> [EMAIL PROTECTED] site:lists.debian.org

Plenty of stuff, lots of replies and multipost threads.  Can't see any
bug reports.  Guess it's off to the BTS to search there.  Drat.

How 'bout that?  Search of the BTS for submitter reports no reports
found.  Huh?  What address did you submit them from?

Btw, THIS IS ALL VOLUNTEER WORK HERE.  fyi.

>  I provide this information only as an indicator of where there
>  might be an opportunity to win more Windows users and lose fewer.

I'd rather Windows just shrivelled up and died, but I don't really
care.  If she wants to use their junk, that's her problem.  We're
allowed to be fools nowadays.

Debian, on the other hand, I do care about and want to help fixing
anything I can.  *Lots* of others in this thread are saying the same
thing.  "Problem?  What problem?  I can't see it!  Where is it?"

Nobody can fix what they can't even see.  You're not helping.


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Re: Debian may lose a user

[Mike McCarty]

s. keeling wrote:

[snip]


fwiw, I've found a really good place to ask difficult questions is in
debian-mentors.


Thanks for the pointer. If I can convince her not to wipe
Debian from the disc, I think I'll subscribe there as well.
I don't have much hopes on that point, however.

Mike
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Re: Debian install to Inspiron 530 with SATA DVD drive

[Jeff D]

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007, Simon wrote:


Hi There,

We are trying to install debian etch onto our Inspiron 530 that has a
SATA DVD drive, but the installer cannot detect the CD drive once it
is booted. How do i move forward here?

Thanks

Simon



Something that you might want to try is to set your sata controller to 
compatability mode in your bios.


-+-
8 out of 10 Owners who Expressed a Preference said Their Cats Preferred Techno.


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Re: Is it possible to keep a program running even when when no users are logged in

[Kumar Appaiah]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 07:23:55PM -0500, Sid Arth wrote:
> What is screen?

http://packages.debian.org/sid/screen
http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/

Kumar
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458, Jamuna Hostel,
Indian Institute of Technology Madras,
Chennai - 600 036


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Re: Is it possible to keep a program running even when when no users are logged in

[Gabriel Parrondo]

El mar, 25-09-2007 a las 19:23 -0500, Sid Arth escribió:
> What is screen?
> 

apt-cache show screen

It let's you do a lot of fancy stuff in the terminal (have multiple
windows, detach the session and reattach it, copy/paste with the
keyboard and a lot of other stuff).

It's exactly what you need.



BTW, please don't make top-posting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting

[...]
-- 
Gabriel Parrondo
GNU/Linux User #404138
GnuPG Public Key ID: BED7BF43
JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

"The only difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there's no 
difference between theory and practice."


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Re: Debian may lose a user

[s. keeling]

Mike McCarty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  Mark Phillips wrote:
> > 
> > Mike, you have to realize that support is provided by volunteers who
> > have lives (families, children, jobs, little league, etc.) outside of
> > supporting the software. There is no guarentee of any support when you
> > install Debian. But it is there. You have to learn how to ask, and
> > sometimes you have to ask several times before you get a response. 
> 
>  Of course I recognize this. I told you, I'm not complaining.
>  I have no oars in the water about this.

I think what they're saying is, we're asking.  You don't just send off
a bug report and expect some help-desk monkey to jump.  Often, you
need to do some research and ask multiple questions in multiple
venues.  People aren't on the net all the time.  Things go by without
getting seen by the right pair of eyes.

Linus says this is the same way it works in kernel hacking.  You may
have to bang on the door a number of times before you get his
attention.

fwiw, I've found a really good place to ask difficult questions is in
debian-mentors.


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Re: Spamassassin and Exim4

[Daniel D Jones]

On Monday 24 September 2007 19:03:47 Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 23, 2007 at 06:40:58PM -0400, Daniel D Jones wrote:
> > On Monday 24 September 2007 15:50:58 Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
>
> > I've reconfigured the file with your recommendations and restarted exim. 
> > I'm still not getting any headers in any email, including obvious spam. 
> > Not sure what's going on.  Do you know of any way to verify that ACLs are
> > actually running?
>
> I really don't know other than to see them show up in the logs
> etc. Can you provide the pertinent part of exim4.conf? the entire ACL
> section would be good.

This last line was the clue that led me to getting everything straightened 
out.  Feeling a little sheepish here, but the issue was that I was modifying 
the split config files, but still had exim configured to use the monolithic 
template.   Doh!

Thanks for your assistance.


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Re: Debian may lose a user

[John Hasler]

Mike writes:
> Once again, mail to you has bounced.

??

> If you read here regularly, then you would have seen the reports,

I most likely did.  So what?  How am I to know which of the innumerable
"reports" posted here you refer to?

> My only point was this: She's leaving Debian because she perceives that
> it doesn't always "just work", and when it doesn't, often there isn't a
> fix easily available.

_Nothing_ always "just works".  Some problems are insoluble.  This is not
news.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues with one printer: HOW?

[Gabriel Parrondo]

El mar, 25-09-2007 a las 18:43 -0500, Mike McCarty escribió:
> Gabriel Parrondo wrote:
> > El mar, 25-09-2007 a las 15:04 -0500, Mike McCarty escribió:
> >> That's precisely it. It appears to me that the GNOME printer
> >> manager shipped with Debian is either broken or deficient
> >> in this area.
> >>
> > 
> > Why are you saying the version shipped with Debian is broken? Have you
> > tried it on other distros and it's different?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > This is gnome, love it or leave it!
> 
> Works on my distro. I can't get it to work with Debian.
> 

Cool! What distro is that? What version of gnome does it run?
Maybe it's running a newer version that didn't hit debian yet.


-- 
Gabriel Parrondo
GNU/Linux User #404138
GnuPG Public Key ID: BED7BF43
JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

"The only difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there's no 
difference between theory and practice."


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Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)

[Steve Lamb]

David Brodbeck wrote:
> As long as you realize it probably won't look the same to the other
> person, unless they have the same Word version, the same operating
> system, and the same fonts.

It will look similar enough.

> It's rare that someone sends me a complicated Word file and I'm able
> to print it cleanly without adjustments.

Good thing that what I'm writing is not at all complex.  The two most
complex things are italics and indent-first-line.

> A little free advice:  If you're planning on writing long documents,
> such as books,

What kind of books?  You description goes on to describe what sounds to
be a technical manual.  Someone else mentioned mathematics.  Another
person talked about technical writing.

Am I writing a book?  Yes.

Am I writing a technical book?  No!

I am writing fiction.  I have no in-line graphics, complex font changes
for examples, silly little icons to denote special sections, massive
indention or the like.  This is strictly line-after-line prose which
could be done plain text except for the fact that I am making use of
italics as a conscious style choice to reinforce when a character is
/'thinking'/ something versus "saying" something.

So, as I had repeated several times, I'm sure LaTeX is wonderful for
what it is designed for.  However it is not something I am interested in
learning for the purposes I would put it to at this time.  The constant
hammering with examples which are far beyond the requirements of the
style I writing I am engaging in is getting a tad tiresome.  I want
WYSIWYG because it helps me think about what is happening.  I want
simple and easy-to-convert to a common format because I don't know if
and by whom this project would be picked up.  I don't want a complex
programming language because I am writing fiction, not programming an
application!  While they are both creative they are two different modes
of thinking!  While I appreciate that other people find it wonderful for
their tasks I ask that those people also appreciate that not everyone
finds the tools they use as equally suited to their tasks, especially
creative tasks.  Creative tasks are personal.  Processes and tools which
work for one person do not work for someone else.  And that is OK!

-- 
Steve Lamb


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Re: Is it possible to keep a program running even when when no users are logged in

[Sid Arth]

What is screen?

On 9/25/07, David Brodbeck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Sep 25, 2007, at 5:16 PM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 04:25:22PM -0700, David Brodbeck wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sep 25, 2007, at 4:14 PM, Sid Arth wrote:
> >>
> >>> I want to have rtorrent running in the background once I turn it on
> >>> via ssh. Is there a way to keep rtorrent running even after I close
> >>> the session?
> >>
> >> Use "screen".  It will let you detach from the session, and reattach
> >> to it later.  It's perfect for this sort of thing.
> >
> > If he doesn't need to reattach, what about just nohup?
>
> I don't think it works with ncurses applications.  They tend to freak
> out a bit when they no longer have a controlling terminal.
>
>
>
>
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>
>


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Re: Is it possible to keep a program running even when when no users are logged in

[David Brodbeck]

On Sep 25, 2007, at 5:16 PM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:


On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 04:25:22PM -0700, David Brodbeck wrote:


On Sep 25, 2007, at 4:14 PM, Sid Arth wrote:


I want to have rtorrent running in the background once I turn it on
via ssh. Is there a way to keep rtorrent running even after I close
the session?


Use "screen".  It will let you detach from the session, and reattach
to it later.  It's perfect for this sort of thing.


If he doesn't need to reattach, what about just nohup?


I don't think it works with ncurses applications.  They tend to freak  
out a bit when they no longer have a controlling terminal.





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Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues with one printer: HOW?

[Wayne Topa]

Mike McCarty([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
> Wayne Topa wrote:
>> Mike McCarty([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
>>> My GF has a Debian/GNOME/CUPS machine, and wishes to associate more than
>>> one queue with it. I use Fedora/GNOME/CUPS and have no problem doing
>>> that, but so far have failed to manage it with Debian. Can anyone
>>> help me get her machine set up to have more than one queue on
>>> her printer? The connectivity is local through USB, if that makes
>>> any difference.
>>>
>> If by queue you mean another printer instance, ie same printer used
>> but a different dpi etc, then you just make a new printer with a
>> different name.  
>
> That's precisely it. It appears to me that the GNOME printer
> manager shipped with Debian is either broken or deficient
> in this area.

I don't run Gnome or KDE here I hope they accept the Cups config.
If not, someone someone that does run them, should submit a bug
report.

>> CUPS Administration -> Add Printer
>> All of the options, except the printer name, are the same as the one
>> you already have, (IIRC).  Then change the options to be what you want.
>
> Ok. Where do I locate the CUPS Administration? Do you mean use
> the "web based" CUPS location via web browser on the local machine?
>
Yep,  http://localhost:631/printers/

The Administration tab is on the top of the page.

<>

>>  Hope I understood you correctly.
>
> Oh, yes.

Good. 

Wayne

-- 
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Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues with one printer: HOW?

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 06:43:47PM -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
> Gabriel Parrondo wrote:
>> El mar, 25-09-2007 a las 15:04 -0500, Mike McCarty escribió:
>>> That's precisely it. It appears to me that the GNOME printer
>>> manager shipped with Debian is either broken or deficient
>>> in this area.
>>>
>> Why are you saying the version shipped with Debian is broken? Have you
>> tried it on other distros and it's different?
>
> Yes.
>
> [snip]
>
>> This is gnome, love it or leave it!
>
> Works on my distro. I can't get it to work with Debian.

what does it do Mike? details man!

A


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Re: Num Lock nor Caps Lock LEDs working in Sid

[Kent West]

Nate Bargmann wrote:

This is one of the joys of using Sid.  ;-)

I noticed over the weekend when using OOo Calc that pressing Num Lock
on my IBM PS/2 keyborad did nothing.  Neither the LED lit nor did Calc
receive numerals from the keypad.

I can switch to a VT and the LEDs light correctly and the keyboard
output is correct for their state.  Back into X I cannot get the LEDs
to light but upper/lower case text and numerals from the keypad do
toggle in Konsole (I'm running KDE).

The only bug report I've found discusses xserver-xorg-input-kbd not
keeping the Num Lock LED state when switching from a VT to X.  Is
anyone else seeing this behavior?

- Nate >>

  
Yes, I've just done a fresh install of Sid on a box, and have gotten 
quite frustrated with several things:
* the num/scroll/caps lock keys don't toggle the LED (although they seem 
to toggle the function)
* X almost seems to ignore my xorg.conf file; I can't get the dpi or 
resolution or refresh set right
* the tv tuner card which worked with Fedora Core doesn't seem to work 
with Sid
* the KMix mixer's main control doesn't control volume; instead, some 
sub-slider does
Nothing show-stopping; just little nigglets. The joys of using unstable? 
Or of using Debian? (make room, McCarty's girlfriend (just kidding!))


--
Kent


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Re: Is it possible to keep a program running even when when no users are logged in

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 04:25:22PM -0700, David Brodbeck wrote:
> 
> On Sep 25, 2007, at 4:14 PM, Sid Arth wrote:
> 
> >I want to have rtorrent running in the background once I turn it on
> >via ssh. Is there a way to keep rtorrent running even after I close
> >the session?
> 
> Use "screen".  It will let you detach from the session, and reattach  
> to it later.  It's perfect for this sort of thing.

If he doesn't need to reattach, what about just nohup?

Doug.


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Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)

[David Brodbeck]

On Sep 25, 2007, at 5:11 PM, David Brodbeck wrote:



On Sep 25, 2007, at 4:31 PM, Steve Lamb wrote:
No, my issue is that I have some formatting I want to be there  
and I

need to be able to express that formatting in a way that will be
accepted by the broadest scope of submission requirements.   
Working in
ODT and then either printing it and mailing out the manuscript or  
simply
saving it in Word (and ensure it still looks clean) prior to  
sending it

through email is the best bet.


As long as you realize it probably won't look the same to the other  
person, unless they have the same Word version, the same operating  
system, and the same fonts.


Oh, and the same printers installed.  Forgot to add that one.  Word  
adjusts its margins based on the printer that's currently selected,  
which affects pagination.





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Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)

[David Brodbeck]

On Sep 25, 2007, at 4:31 PM, Steve Lamb wrote:
No, my issue is that I have some formatting I want to be there  
and I

need to be able to express that formatting in a way that will be
accepted by the broadest scope of submission requirements.  Working in
ODT and then either printing it and mailing out the manuscript or  
simply
saving it in Word (and ensure it still looks clean) prior to  
sending it

through email is the best bet.


As long as you realize it probably won't look the same to the other  
person, unless they have the same Word version, the same operating  
system, and the same fonts.


It's rare that someone sends me a complicated Word file and I'm able  
to print it cleanly without adjustments.  Usually things like spacing  
and pagination get screwed up due to differences in fonts, different  
interpretations of tab stops, etc.


The only way to be sure the other person sees what you see is by  
using a page description language, like PDF.




A little free advice:  If you're planning on writing long documents,  
such as books, I'm going to humbly suggest that the initial pain of  
learning a typesetting program (TeX or some equivalent) will save you  
from worse pain later.


A company I used to work for once did a large operations manual  
entirely in MS Word 2000.  It was a nightmare.  Every time the client  
wanted us to change the format of, say, the section headings, we had  
to go fix every section heading by hand and ensure they all came out  
the same.  Invariably we'd miss some, which would be flagged on the  
next review.  It took hours, sometimes even days, to make simple  
global formatting changes.  About the time we hit the 650 page mark,  
Word started corrupting the file and it became impossible to go  
through more than a few edit/save cycles before the file became  
unreadable and we had to restore from backup.


In a proper typesetting program, changing the format of a heading  
means changing the template -- once -- and then regenerating the  
document.  It does the drudgery of maintaining consistency for you.



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Re: Debian may lose a user

[Mike McCarty]

John Hasler wrote:

Mike writes:

There are those here who have expressed a desire for Linux to be a viable
alternative to Windows for more users. It was directed at those people.


You told us that some unnamed person had unidentified problems which they
reported in some unknown way with reportedly unsatisfactory results.  What
use to us is that?


Once again, mail to you has bounced.

If you read here regularly, then you would have seen the reports,
because they were put here. There isn't any hope for response
from people who do not read or do not respond to what they read.

My only point was this: She's leaving Debian because she perceives
that it doesn't always "just work", and when it doesn't, often there
isn't a fix easily available.

That's it.

For those who wish to know what has caused one user to buy Windows,
and might cause a class of similar users to do the same, that is useful
information. For those who don't care, it isn't.

You may decide for yourself which category you fall into.

I'm not responding further to you, unless you provide me with
an e-mail address which doesn't bounce.

Mike
--
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Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!


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Debian install to Inspiron 530 with SATA DVD drive

[Simon]

Hi There,

We are trying to install debian etch onto our Inspiron 530 that has a
SATA DVD drive, but the installer cannot detect the CD drive once it
is booted. How do i move forward here?

Thanks

Simon


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Re: How do I know debian has detected all my hardware?

[Kevin Mark]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 02:29:45AM -0700, Amit Uttamchandani wrote:
> Hey guys,
> 
> I recently installed etch on this old laptop and have no problems with it 
> whatsoever. I had no hardware issues or anything. It "seemed" like all the 
> hardware was automatically detected. Now the question is, how do I know for 
> sure? I know I could use lspci or something like that. But what do you guys 
> suggest? I mean is there a "System Profiler" / "Device Manager" under linux?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
In Gnome, look at:
'System' menu->preferences->Hardware info
There is a similar one in Kde.
-K
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Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues with one printer: HOW?

[Mike McCarty]

Gabriel Parrondo wrote:

El mar, 25-09-2007 a las 15:04 -0500, Mike McCarty escribió:

That's precisely it. It appears to me that the GNOME printer
manager shipped with Debian is either broken or deficient
in this area.



Why are you saying the version shipped with Debian is broken? Have you
tried it on other distros and it's different?


Yes.

[snip]


This is gnome, love it or leave it!


Works on my distro. I can't get it to work with Debian.

Mike
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Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!


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Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)

[Steve Lamb]

Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> The output is PostScript
> so I kept a copy of GhostView (gv) running (watching the file) and
> whenever I wanted to see how things looked, just ran lout on my file to
> the same output file name.

Yeahhh, no thanks.  I don't like coding HTML with the produce and peek
method of screwing it up.

> Talk to your publisher.

This presumes I have a publisher.  I never said I did.  I pointed out
that it appears that submissions are desired in two formats. 
Implication being that when I am done with my work I'll be submitting it
to different places in the hopes of getting it picked up.  Since I am
unaware of what company, if any, I will end up with I cannot make any
presumptions about any format they will accept outside of the lowest
common denominator.  Word, plain text or printed manuscript.

> The issue here is that it seems that you want to do some formatting and
> then the publisher will want to tweak your formatting.

No, my issue is that I have some formatting I want to be there and I
need to be able to express that formatting in a way that will be
accepted by the broadest scope of submission requirements.  Working in
ODT and then either printing it and mailing out the manuscript or simply
saving it in Word (and ensure it still looks clean) prior to sending it
through email is the best bet.

> Your final output format doesn't have to have anything to do with your
> input format; the format that goes into your version controll system.

Exactly.  I have not heard of LaTeX outputting to Word.  I have heard of
an ODT to Word converter OOo.  ;)

-- 
Steve Lamb


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Re: Is it possible to keep a program running even when when no users are logged in

[David Brodbeck]

On Sep 25, 2007, at 4:14 PM, Sid Arth wrote:


I want to have rtorrent running in the background once I turn it on
via ssh. Is there a way to keep rtorrent running even after I close
the session?


Use "screen".  It will let you detach from the session, and reattach  
to it later.  It's perfect for this sort of thing.





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Re: Num Lock nor Caps Lock LEDs working in Sid

[Nate Bargmann]

* Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007 Sep 25 18:08 -0500]:

> Yup.  NumLock light stays on, CapsLock and ScrollLock stay off.  At
> the console, they toggle as normal.  (I use startx to fire up X.)

I log in via KDM.

> Even though the lights don't toggle, CAPS LOCK still works.

Hmmm, my LEDs stay off in X, but then I think they are off all the way
through the boot process.  I just confirmed the same behavior on my
laptop with Sid up-to-date.

- Nate >>

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Is it possible to keep a program running even when when no users are logged in

[Sid Arth]

I want to have rtorrent running in the background once I turn it on
via ssh. Is there a way to keep rtorrent running even after I close
the session?


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Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX

[Miles Bader]

"Douglas A. Tutty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> using WordPerfect.  When I switched to Linux, I was overwhelmed with the
> thought of learning LaTex.  So I tried Lout. I found it great after a
> while.  Think of it as a stripped-down LaTex.

"... written by a language lawyer."

-Miles

-- 
It wasn't the Exxon Valdez captain's driving that caused the Alaskan oil spill.
It was yours.  [Greenpeace advertisement, New York Times, 25 February 1990]


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Re: How to reply in the mailing lists

[Sid Arth]

I still use gmail because I can access it everywhere, and if I use it
with google reader, I have no need for a something such as thunderbird
or any other email client. Those two do everything I need them to do.

On 9/25/07, Celejar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:06:38 -0400
> "Michael Marsh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On 9/25/07, Celejar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:38:29 -0400
> > > "Michael Marsh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > For me, it's a matter of all clients sucking.  Gmail gives me the
> > > > google search algorithm over my mailbox, google talk in the sidebar
> > > > (not used often, but very handy on occasion), and no reliance on a
> > > > third-party SMTP server to send mail (unless gmail now provides SMTP).
> > > The Google search is undeniably valuable, and I occasionally use the
> > > web interface for that purpose, but for regular use, my preference is
> > > for the practical benefits of control and flexibility that *nix mail
> > > clients offer.  In addition, I have an ideological preference for free
> > > software and the aforementioned control.  In any event, my comment to
> > > which you are responding was in response to raju's suggestion to use
> > > knode.  BTW, Gmail does provide SMTP.
> >
> > I may have seen the SMTP support, but that certainly wasn't the case
> > at one point.  When they provide IMAP access, I'll consider moving
> > some of my gmail use back to other clients.  POP's a bit of a pain
> > when you access the account from multiple machines.  I also noticed
>
> Definitely.
>
> > that POP doesn't fetch your spam, which is nice, but spam counts
> > against your quota, and contrary to their claims it doesn't seem to
> > get cleared out after 30 days.  I had one account that built up to
>
> Mine gets removed.  My spam total remains steady at about 1600 messages.
> I never delete them; I just check them quickly for non-spam, and then
> mark them all read.
>
> > something like 30% usage while I was accessing it via POP.  Cleaning
> > out the spam brought me down to under 1%.
>
> > Michael A. Marsh
>
> Celejar
> --
> mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email
> ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator
>
>
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Re: Tool for document management

[David Brodbeck]

On Sep 24, 2007, at 9:39 PM, Russell L. Harris wrote:

I use XEMacs daily to produce LaTeX documents.  I have frequent need
to search my archives of material I have written in the past, and I
use grep for this purpose.  It is difficult for me to imagine an
advantage offered by OpenOffice which would compensate for the
inability to make use of grep in searching my archives.


I think it depends on what you're doing.  TeX is awesome for writing  
books and scientific papers.  If you're writing a letter to Grandma,  
though, OpenOffice is better suited.  Using TeX for that is a bit  
like driving a semi truck to the supermarket to pick up a bottle of  
milk.





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Re: Num Lock nor Caps Lock LEDs working in Sid

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 09/25/07 17:55, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> This is one of the joys of using Sid.  ;-)
> 
> I noticed over the weekend when using OOo Calc that pressing Num Lock
> on my IBM PS/2 keyborad did nothing.  Neither the LED lit nor did Calc
> receive numerals from the keypad.
> 
> I can switch to a VT and the LEDs light correctly and the keyboard
> output is correct for their state.  Back into X I cannot get the LEDs
> to light but upper/lower case text and numerals from the keypad do
> toggle in Konsole (I'm running KDE).
> 
> The only bug report I've found discusses xserver-xorg-input-kbd not
> keeping the Num Lock LED state when switching from a VT to X.  Is
> anyone else seeing this behavior?

Yup.  NumLock light stays on, CapsLock and ScrollLock stay off.  At
the console, they toggle as normal.  (I use startx to fire up X.)

Even though the lights don't toggle, CAPS LOCK still works.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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Re: Debian may lose a user

[John Hasler]

Mike writes:
> There are those here who have expressed a desire for Linux to be a viable
> alternative to Windows for more users. It was directed at those people.

You told us that some unnamed person had unidentified problems which they
reported in some unknown way with reportedly unsatisfactory results.  What
use to us is that?
-- 
John Hasler


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Num Lock nor Caps Lock LEDs working in Sid

[Nate Bargmann]

This is one of the joys of using Sid.  ;-)

I noticed over the weekend when using OOo Calc that pressing Num Lock
on my IBM PS/2 keyborad did nothing.  Neither the LED lit nor did Calc
receive numerals from the keypad.

I can switch to a VT and the LEDs light correctly and the keyboard
output is correct for their state.  Back into X I cannot get the LEDs
to light but upper/lower case text and numerals from the keypad do
toggle in Konsole (I'm running KDE).

The only bug report I've found discusses xserver-xorg-input-kbd not
keeping the Num Lock LED state when switching from a VT to X.  Is
anyone else seeing this behavior?

- Nate >>

-- 
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 My Kawasaki KZ-650 SR @| a GNU generation!"
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Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)

[David Brodbeck]

On Sep 25, 2007, at 8:01 AM, Steve Lamb wrote:


Ron Johnson wrote:

PDF?


Haven't seen it as an acceptable format for submission, no.


Some on-demand publishers use it.  For example, Lulu.com.




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Re: Debian may lose a user

[Charlie]

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007, Mike McCarty shared this with us all:
>--} Anyway, that's it, FWIW.
>--}

As interesting as this appears Mike, it again shows the main difference 
between operating systems that "supply everything" a user requires, and one 
that supplies everything, but the user has to be willing to do a bit 
themselves. Sometimes wait a while even for acknowledgement, after much 
searching on their own first.

It's interesting that in the most used operating system, if people can't 
do/view something they just don't do it and say so, and just keep going as 
best they can without ever resolving the situation. Some of these, sick of 
paying and still not being able to do something they want, move to open 
source alternatives and start learning how they work as they attempt to fix 
things. Usually only hindered by the fact they don't know what tool to use to 
do it.

So not everyone should use Debian, or any other open source operating system. 
The people that find the environment congenial, if not comfortable, tend 
toward being willing to be inconvenienced a little, knowing there will be a 
solution, even enjoying he challenge. Even if the solution is difficult to 
find, must be waited for and needs to be worried at to discover.

I have read where a long time Linux user wrote that he was sick of doing 
things open source. He just wanted to have an operating system to install and 
not need to tweak things, just install the software and have it working. Then 
work with it. I have a feeling that he didn't move into the shadow and look 
into the light. But if he did, it may have been because with age his thinking 
changed. It happens.

There is not one system better than another, just different, like people are 
different, we each need to find what we can use and enjoy. So whatever your 
GF finds best is good. Isn't it? I don't think any operating systems 
advocates would like to keep her using it against her will. If she thinks of 
quitting the system because she cannot find the answer herself, or anyone 
able or willing to help her, then maybe she is not suited to use that system? 
To use open source you have to think about being open source, having a 
certain amount of aggravation with something that can be fixed and being one 
who perseveres. We have all had our frustrations at Debian as with every 
other operating system, open source or not. How often have we worried and 
googled a problem and weeks later found some obscure reference to it? 
Something done by default, that wasn't supposed to happen. Comment out a line 
in the configuration file and thing works. I think every person on this list 
has had that experience?

Thanks for the heads up, but one is lost and ten are found. To each their own. 
Please wish her well from me at least.

Be well,
Charlie
-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
+++
When both body and mind are at peace, all things appear as they are: perfect, 
complete, lacking nothing.  DOGEN
<<<>
Debian - Just the best way to do magic.


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Re: Debian may lose a user

[Miles Bader]

Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Wow. Mike takes the time to offer a common courtesy of informing the
> Debian community of how it's being perceived by Jane Average Girlfriend,
> and the community jumps all over him about various aspects.

Why was it courteous?

Despite the "polite" tone, it basically came off sounding like "Somebody
doesn't like you but I won't tell you why.  Haha!"

Unless there's at least some attempt at giving useful information, a
post like really serves mostly as a way to make the recipient feel bad,
and it's somewhat difficult to believe Mike didn't realize that.

-Miles
-- 
A zen-buddhist walked into a pizza shop and
said, "Make me one with everything."


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Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 07:30:35AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> Neil Watson wrote:
> > With TeX and LaTeX and its ilk the templates actually work.  I can use
> > the same template for all of my reports and they always look the same.
> > There are no annoying format inconsistencies that are so common with
> > Word and OpenOffice.
> 
> To be fair I am operating out a large measure of ignorance.  One of my
> main concerns is that the typesetting languages are languages.  I'm sure
> they're robust but I have always seen their use tied to another editor.  Since
> an outside editor is required it is my impression that there is no WYSIWYG, no
> way to get a basic view of how it might look printed outside of actually doing
> whatever magic it is to send it off to a printer.  Which I don't have.

I remember when I first switched from OS/2 to Linux.  I was used to
using WordPerfect.  When I switched to Linux, I was overwhelmed with the
thought of learning LaTex.  So I tried Lout. I found it great after a
while.  Think of it as a stripped-down LaTex.  The output is PostScript
so I kept a copy of GhostView (gv) running (watching the file) and
whenever I wanted to see how things looked, just ran lout on my file to
the same output file name.

When I got my new computer, it wouldn't run Sarge so I had to use Etch
while it was still testing and Lout wasn't in testing at the time.  So I
had to learn LaTex.  Its not much different once you take a day or two
to read the docs and try it.  Again, the standard output (dvi) has a
viewer, or you can put it into ps, and have a viewer follow that.

> 
> Also the end result of my labor will be to send this out to be published.
>  I have seen many publishers take submissions in Word, plain text or printed
> out.  I've yet to see one accept LaTeX.  So without a printer I am stuck with
> transforming what I want into an acceptable format and plain text won't so.  I
> am using some formatting.  Nothing fancy, noting that will cause formatting
> inconsistencies.  But just enough that plain text is unacceptable.


Talk to your publisher.  They may be able to take dvi or ps.  If they're
going to take your work and plug it into their desktop publishing
software, they may just want plain text plus .eps graphics.  

The issue here is that it seems that you want to do some formatting and
then the publisher will want to tweak your formatting.  You need to
determine what your final output and their first input format should be
to effect this.

Your final output format doesn't have to have anything to do with your
input format; the format that goes into your version controll system.  

Doug.


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Re: Who is altering my hostname?

[Gabriel Parrondo]

El mié, 26-09-2007 a las 00:04 +0200, Florian Lindner escribió:
> Hello,
> I have a virtual server with a Debian etch installed by myself from 
> debootstrap. The machine has two IPs assigned:
> 
> # ifconfig
> [snip output]
> 
> The interface config I have set in /etc/network/interfaces copied from the 
> default installation.

May we see it?

> [...]

> 
> keymachine is my hoster.
> 
> What could this make happen? In /etc/init.d/ there is nothing like a dhcp 
> client. I have also removed some packages with dhcp in their names.

The dhcp client is not run from /etc/init.d, it is called by the ifup
command (which is called by /etc/init.d/networking) if the interface is
configured to do so in /etc/network/interfaces.


-- 
Gabriel Parrondo
GNU/Linux User #404138
GnuPG Public Key ID: BED7BF43
JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

"The only difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there's no 
difference between theory and practice."


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Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues with one printer: HOW?

[Gabriel Parrondo]

El mar, 25-09-2007 a las 15:04 -0500, Mike McCarty escribió:
> Wayne Topa wrote:
> > Mike McCarty([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
> >> My GF has a Debian/GNOME/CUPS machine, and wishes to associate more than
> >> one queue with it. I use Fedora/GNOME/CUPS and have no problem doing
> >> that, but so far have failed to manage it with Debian. Can anyone
> >> help me get her machine set up to have more than one queue on
> >> her printer? The connectivity is local through USB, if that makes
> >> any difference.
> >>
> > 
> > If by queue you mean another printer instance, ie same printer used
> > but a different dpi etc, then you just make a new printer with a
> > different name.  
> 
> That's precisely it. It appears to me that the GNOME printer
> manager shipped with Debian is either broken or deficient
> in this area.
> 

Why are you saying the version shipped with Debian is broken? Have you
tried it on other distros and it's different?

As much as I hate to say it, many gnome programs are just useless when
you need more than the basic functions that you would expect in that
kind of software. You either end up looking for alternatives
(xscreensaver over gnome-screensaver, alacarte over the default menu
editor, etc) or doing things on command line.

The situation is supposed to be changing, but the change is slow.

This is gnome, love it or leave it!


-- 
Gabriel Parrondo
GNU/Linux User #404138
GnuPG Public Key ID: BED7BF43
JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

"The only difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there's no 
difference between theory and practice."


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Re: Who is altering my hostname?

[Florian Lindner]

Am Mittwoch, 26. September 2007 schrieb Florian Lindner:
> Hello,
> I have a virtual server with a Debian etch installed by myself from
> debootstrap. The machine has two IPs assigned:

[...]

> Any idea what makes these two files changing and how to avoid it?

Additional information, ping does not really work as well:

km22204-07:~# ping localhost
connect: Invalid argument
km22204-07:~# ping km22204-07
connect: Invalid argument
km22204-07:~# ping osiris
connect: Invalid argument
km22204-07:~# ping osiris.centershock.net
connect: Invalid argument
km22204-07:~# ping km22204-07.keymachine.de
connect: Invalid argument

external domains are working:

km22204-07:~# ping xgm.de
PING xgm.de (81.169.149.60) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from anubis.centershock.net (81.169.149.60): icmp_seq=1 ttl=56 
time=10.9 ms

Thanks,

Florian


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Who is altering my hostname?

[Florian Lindner]

Hello,
I have a virtual server with a Debian etch installed by myself from 
debootstrap. The machine has two IPs assigned:

# ifconfig
venet0Link encap:UNSPEC  HWaddr 
00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00
  inet addr:127.0.0.1  P-t-P:127.0.0.1  Bcast:0.0.0.0  
Mask:255.255.255.255
  UP BROADCAST POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP  MTU:1500  Metric:1
  RX packets:136 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:84 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
  RX bytes:12755 (12.4 KiB)  TX bytes:12216 (11.9 KiB)

venet0:0  Link encap:UNSPEC  HWaddr 
00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00
  inet addr:84.19.178.252  P-t-P:84.19.178.252  Bcast:0.0.0.0  
Mask:255.255.255.255
  UP BROADCAST POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP  MTU:1500  Metric:1

venet0:1  Link encap:UNSPEC  HWaddr 
00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00
  inet addr:84.19.179.252  P-t-P:84.19.179.252  Bcast:0.0.0.0  
Mask:255.255.255.255
  UP BROADCAST POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP  MTU:1500  Metric:1

The interface config I have set in /etc/network/interfaces copied from the 
default installation.
I set the /etc/hostname:

osiris.centershock.net

and /etc/hosts:

84.19.178.252 osiris.centershock.net osiris
84.19.179.252 isis.centershock.net isis
127.0.0.1  localhost localhost.localdomain

The names resolv to this IP and the reverse PTR also to the names. But after a 
reboot the two files have changed somehow:

km22204-07.keymachine.de

and

84.19.178.252 osiris.centershock.net osiris
84.19.179.252 isis.centershock.net isis
127.0.0.1  km22204-07.keymachine.de km22204-07 localhost localhost.localdomain

The /etc/resolv.conf is also altered:

search keymachine.de # This line has been added
nameserver 84.19.178.252
nameserver 84.19.188.171

keymachine is my hoster.

What could this make happen? In /etc/init.d/ there is nothing like a dhcp 
client. I have also removed some packages with dhcp in their names.

Any idea what makes these two files changing and how to avoid it?

Thanks a lot,

Florian


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Re: Nomachine on Debian unstable?

[Gilles Mocellin]

Le Tuesday 25 September 2007 07:51:12 Stefan Bellon, vous avez écrit :
> On Tue, 25 Sep, Gilles Mocellin wrote:
> > Le Monday 24 September 2007 08:41:34 Stefan Bellon, vous avez écrit :
> > > Hi,
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > I think the problem is here :
> > > NX> 208 Using auth method: publickey
> > > NX> 204 Authentication failed..
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Do you use the defaut ssh key ?
>
> Yes, haven't touched a thing.
>
> > As it tells you, I suggest you to re-install the packages.
>
> Done it several times. Tried on two unstable machines.
>
> > Remove /usr/NX to be sure before reinstalling them. And verify that
> > there is not anymore the nx user (/etc/passwd).$
>
> Done that. No change.
>
> After that I tracked down what happens if I do
>
> $ ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> I only got that working when I disabled PAM in my sshd_config and
> enabled password authentication and empty passwords. But nxclient still
> cannot connect.

I think we can't test a nx login with the default key.

$ sudo cat /usr/NX/home/nx/.ssh/authorized_keys2
no-port-forwarding,no-agent-forwarding,command="/usr/NX/bin/nxserver --login" 
ssh-dss B3N...

Only nxserver can be run with the key.

When I try manually, it asks me a passphrase :
$ sudo cp /usr/NX/home/nx/.ssh/default.id_dsa.pub nx.id_dsa.pub
$ sudo chown gilles:gilles nx.id_dsa.pub
$ chmod 600 nx.id_dsa.pub
$ ssh -i nx.id_dsa.pub [EMAIL PROTECTED] /usr/NX/bin/nxserver --login
Enter passphrase for key 'nx.id_dsa.pub':

And I don't know it...

Perhaps I will have the same problem if I try to upgrade.. Which version do 
you have ?
I have nxserver_3.0.0-63_x86_64.deb, nxnode_3.0.0-76_x86_64.deb and 
nxclient_3.0.0-68_x86_64.deb.
 




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Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)

[Russell L. Harris]

* Jochen Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070925 16:07]:
> Steve Lamb:

>> they're robust but I have always seen their use tied to another
>> editor.  Since an outside editor is required it is my impression
>> that there is no WYSIWYG, no way to get a basic view of how it
>> might look printed outside of actually doing whatever magic it is
>> to send it off to a printer.  Which I don't have.

> Hm? Usually, you have one editor (Notepad-like or something more
> advanced) for your Latex code and some viewer application where you can
> see your compiled document (PDF, DVI).  However, the more you get used
> to it, the less you need to know how exactly some specific markup looks
> like.  You can always adjust the details at a later time without
> touching the actual contents of your document.
> 
> I know that there is a special Latex-mode for Emacs which displays some
> kind of inline-preview directly in your editor. I like vim better,
> though, so I cannot tell much about it.

Rather than the Emacs preview, I use "xdvi" to view the typeset
document:

I use the Gnome desktop.  I find it convenient to open several
terminal windows (Gnome terminal or multi-Gnome-terminal).  One window
I use for the command line, and in each of the others I run an
instance of "xdvi" for the file which I am editing.

Inasmuch as xdvi allows me to "zoom" to any magnification I wish, I
use each instance of xdvi to provide a different view:

=> a magnified view of the region of the page or column on which I
am working (I typically typeset documents in two-column format)

=> a magnified view of the footnotes

=> a reduced view of the entire page (you can flip through the
pages with the PAGEUP and PAGEDOWN keys; this makes it very easy
to spot mark-up errors in section titles)

=> a normal view of the table of contents

Using alt-TAB (or the rodent), I can switch between the XEmacs window,
the xdvi windows, and the command-line window.

Occasionally while writing, I save the document, switch to the
command-line window and execute LaTeX, then look over the xdvi
displays (which are updated automatically whenever LaTeX is run).

RLH


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Re: Warning: attempt to remove nonexistent passive grab

[Benjamin A'Lee]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 06:07:46AM -0700, BartlebyScrivener wrote:
> I searched this group on this error message, which I get at odd times
> on Debian Etch, usually when using Mutt or xpdf to read an attachment.
> I'll go to those groups too, but sometimes I think I see it even from
> the command line. Anyone else? Or does anyone know what it means?

I googled it a while back; apparently it's due to a harmless bug/design
flaw in the libraries used by Xpdf.

http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/poplog/bugfixes/BUGREPORTS

The error is harmless, though annoying.

-- 
Benjamin A'Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://subvert.org.uk/~bma/


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Re: Debian may lose a user

[Roger B.A. Klorese]

Kent West wrote:
Like he said, he's not complaining, or asking for help, or asking for 
information; he's just saying that we have room for improvement.



Well, yes, but it remains to be seen whether everyone considers this 
"room for improvement."  A lot of projects and products spend a lot of 
time working on non-goals; the question at hand is whether adoption by 
the level of user in question is or is not a goal.



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Re: Debian may lose a user

[Mike McCarty]

John Hasler wrote:

I tried to reply off-list, but the email bounced.


Mike writes:

I provide this information only as an indicator of where there might be
an opportunity to win more Windows users and lose fewer.


I don't see that you provided any useful information.


Then it wasn't directed at you.

There are those here who have expressed a desire for Linux
to be a viable alternative to Windows for more users. It was
directed at those people.

I didn't intend to respond any further on the list, since
my statement has been seen, and I see no point in burdening
the list with arguments.

Mike
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Re: Debian may lose a user

[Kent West]

Mike McCarty wrote:

So, please don't take
this as a complaint from me, as it isn't. I'm simply informing
the Debian forum of a situation.


Wow. Mike takes the time to offer a common courtesy of informing the 
Debian community of how it's being perceived by Jane Average Girlfriend, 
and the community jumps all over him about various aspects.


Folks! Don't read stuff between the lines that isn't there! Just take in 
the information. I daresay Mike is quite aware that we're a volunteer 
community that doesn't guarantee support, and that he's quite aware of 
distros like Ubuntu, etc. Like he said, he's not complaining, or asking 
for help, or asking for information; he's just saying that we have room 
for improvement. Granted, most of us know this, but unless you're 
thin-skinned (which sure seems to be the case) or being charged by the 
byte (yes, I know there are some of you out there), his email post 
doesn't hurt anyone, and it might actually serve as a reminder to go 
that extra mile to help keep the next waffling girlfriend (mmm-mm-mm, 
waffles  and girlfriends ... yowsa!) in the Debian camp (mm-mm-mm, 
camping with girlfriends ..., "and in the mornin', I'm makin' waffles!").


Mike. I get it. I appreciate your information.

--
Kent


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Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)

[Jochen Schulz]

Steve Lamb:
> 
> To be fair I am operating out a large measure of ignorance.

:)

> One of my
> main concerns is that the typesetting languages are languages.  I'm sure
> they're robust but I have always seen their use tied to another editor.  Since
> an outside editor is required it is my impression that there is no WYSIWYG, no
> way to get a basic view of how it might look printed outside of actually doing
> whatever magic it is to send it off to a printer.  Which I don't have.

Hm? Usually, you have one editor (Notepad-like or something more
advanced) for your Latex code and some viewer application where you can
see your compiled document (PDF, DVI).  However, the more you get used
to it, the less you need to know how exactly some specific markup looks
like.  You can always adjust the details at a later time without
touching the actual contents of your document.

I know that there is a special Latex-mode for Emacs which displays some
kind of inline-preview directly in your editor. I like vim better,
though, so I cannot tell much about it.

> Also the end result of my labor will be to send this out to be published.
>  I have seen many publishers take submissions in Word, plain text or printed
> out.  I've yet to see one accept LaTeX.  So without a printer I am stuck with
> transforming what I want into an acceptable format and plain text won't so.  I
> am using some formatting.  Nothing fancy, noting that will cause formatting
> inconsistencies.  But just enough that plain text is unacceptable.

Sounds like a job for reStructured Text to me, but that's unacceptable
as well, probably. ;-)

J.
-- 
It is not in my power to change anything.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Re: Debian may lose a user

[John Hasler]

Mike writes:
> I provide this information only as an indicator of where there might be
> an opportunity to win more Windows users and lose fewer.

I don't see that you provided any useful information.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: Debian may lose a user

[Hal Vaughan]

On Tuesday 25 September 2007, Mike McCarty wrote:
> Mike Bird wrote:
> > On Tuesday 25 September 2007 12:45, Mike McCarty wrote:
> >> I'm not trying to be mean, either. I'm reporting a single event.
> >
> > We're all volunteers here.  You too.  If you find time I guess
> > some of us would appreciate your posting links to the previous
> > problems you discussed.  And if you don't find time, we understand.
> > We also cannot find time to do everything we'd like to do.
>
> I was deliberately not posting the problems, since that
> might look like a complaint. I'm not trying to get action.

So what's the point?

...
> I provide this information only as an indicator of where
> there might be an opportunity to win more Windows users
> and lose fewer.

That sounds good and honorable, but, in reality, you still haven't 
provided anything in your original post that helps.  To me, as a 
writer, and as someone who taught English for years, it sounds more 
like a veiled way to make a complaint while trying to convince yourself 
and others you're trying to help.

I would also wonder how the questions were asked.  Were they asked in 
such a way that information was provided and was clear?

To me, the real problem seems to be in the selection of the distro.  I 
saw what you said about her running a BBS and other information, but 
that still does not mean that Debian is necessarily the best choice for 
her.  I've found it's also a personality issue as well.  I am, by 
passion, a writer.  I'm also learning 3D animation so I can animate 
some of my stories.  When I'm writing or doing animation or graphics 
work, I think completely differently then when I'm keeping my servers 
running.

I've found that when I'm dealing with my server issues, I ask questions 
in one way and deal with people in one way, but when I'm dealing with 
workstation issues, my style is different.  My "server" style works 
better on this list, but my "I'm only an end user" style works better 
with Ubunutu.

I would dare say that if she had picked Ubuntu to test instead of 
Debian, she would likely have had a different experience.

Hal


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Re: SAMBA ground-up tutorial?

[Cameron L. Spitzer]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Chris Lale wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> [This message has also been posted to linux.debian.user.]
>> I've got a Debian bastion host at a small nonprofit.
>> Windoze.  We're using CUPS on the
>> Debian box.  We want to share all the printers
>> across all the hosts on the LAN.

Many thanks to everyone who replied on and off list.
Best clues so far: 1.  the 2nd ed O'Reilly Samba book is on line now.
2.  CUPS in Etch has been compiled with support for smbspool(8).  You
need that for the Linux box to use a printer offered by 
a Windoze box.  smbspool is in the smbclient package.


>
> The howto on the NewbieDOC wiki [1] may get you started. Perhaps you could
> contribute your experience to the wiki page when you have got your system 
> working?
>
> [1] http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Installing_Samba_Linux/Windows_networking

Definitely.


Cameron


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Re: ATI or Nvidia

[Brad Sawatzky]

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Guillermo Garron wrote:

> I have my system as dual boot, Debian Etch and ubuntu Gutsy, I am
> asking on the Ubuntu list, which is my best option nVidia or ATI,
> actually I have an ATI Radeon X300, and I want to change it.
> 
> In your Debian experience which has better support?, I have read that
> nVidia is better, actually I had problems with Ubuntu and compiz, with
> Debian and the propietary driver, GoogleEarth works great, (no compiz
> on my Debian)
[ . . . ]

Definitely nVidia.  ATI's proprietary driver is shockingly bad...  I had no
idea how poor it was until I was forced to swap an ATI card into a system
last weekend -- I eventually got it (sort-of) working, but jeez.  My
replacement nVidia card arrives tomorrow.

FWIW, now that ATI has been purchased by AMD they've begun to release
enough hardware specs for a quality driver to be written by open source
folks.  That will take some time though.

-- Brad


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Re: UTF-8 support in Latex (was: Tool for document management)

[David Baron]

> > Some years ago I changed from LyX to OpenOffice. These days I tried to
> > change back. One of the reasons was that there is no grep possible in OO.
>
> I believe that the common desktop search tools can search and index
> OASIS documents. I know that it works with namazu, which I use, and I
> would expect that it works as well with beagle et al.
>
> > Alas, Texlive and therefore LyX, too, seem not to allow UTF-8, which by
> > now has become an absolute necessity for me.
>
> Do you mean support for UTF-8 encoded characters in the input text? That
> can be achieved by putting
>
> \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
>
> into the preamble of the document.

How would I do this for musixtex?



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Re: trouble installing pidgin (was: trying to get the windows icq program QQ to work under etch)

[tom arnall]

On Tuesday 25 September 2007 12:19, Jeff D wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, tom arnall wrote:
> > On Tuesday 25 September 2007 11:24, Jeff D wrote:
> >> On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, tom arnall wrote:
> >>> Peter,
> >>>
> >>> i tried another approach. i just read that qq has been merged with the
> >>> new gaim, called pidgin, so i attempted to install pidgin. i was able
> >>> to configure the source but compile died in the 'make'. with the .rpm i
> >>> got a .deb file, which i then did 'dpkg -i' on. e'thing seemed to go
> >>> normally, but after the 'setting up' message, nothing was on the system
> >>> for pidgin. below is the session.
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >>> thanks,
> >>>
> >>> tom arnall
> >>
> >> I just compiled it on my etch system here, be sure to get the
> >> libgnutls-dev and libnss3-dev packages.  Mine was failing on gnutls/ssl
> >> until I got those packages.
> >>
> >> hth
> >> jeff
> >>
> >>   -+-
> >> 8 out of 10 Owners who Expressed a Preference said Their Cats Preferred
> >> Techno.
> >
> > Jeff,
> >
> > 'libgnutls-dev and libnss3-dev packages': do you mean do the regular
> > apt-get install for these?
> >
> > tom
>
> correct, apt-get those packages, then grab the source from pidgin.im, the
> configure line I used
> was:
> ./configure --enable-gnutls=yes  -with-gnutls-libs=/usr/lib/ \
> --with-gnutls-includes=/usr/include/gnutls/
>
> -+-
> 8 out of 10 Owners who Expressed a Preference said Their Cats Preferred
> Techno.

works. was able to do just './configure'. to run it i had to 
symlink /usr/local/lib/libpurple.so.0 to /usr/lib. thanks very much for your 
help.


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Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues with one printer: HOW?

[Mike McCarty]

Wayne Topa wrote:

Mike McCarty([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:

My GF has a Debian/GNOME/CUPS machine, and wishes to associate more than
one queue with it. I use Fedora/GNOME/CUPS and have no problem doing
that, but so far have failed to manage it with Debian. Can anyone
help me get her machine set up to have more than one queue on
her printer? The connectivity is local through USB, if that makes
any difference.



If by queue you mean another printer instance, ie same printer used
but a different dpi etc, then you just make a new printer with a
different name.  


That's precisely it. It appears to me that the GNOME printer
manager shipped with Debian is either broken or deficient
in this area.


CUPS Administration -> Add Printer
All of the options, except the printer name, are the same as the one
you already have, (IIRC).  Then change the options to be what you want.


Ok. Where do I locate the CUPS Administration? Do you mean use
the "web based" CUPS location via web browser on the local machine?


I have, for instance, an HP6P laser printer I have set up printer HP
as draft, 300dpi, printer 6P for 600dpi, and printer HP6PCB for
printed circuit board transfers.  


Hope I understood you correctly.


Oh, yes.

Mike
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Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!


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Re: Debian may lose a user

[Mike McCarty]

Mike Bird wrote:

On Tuesday 25 September 2007 12:45, Mike McCarty wrote:

I'm not trying to be mean, either. I'm reporting a single event.


We're all volunteers here.  You too.  If you find time I guess
some of us would appreciate your posting links to the previous
problems you discussed.  And if you don't find time, we understand.
We also cannot find time to do everything we'd like to do.


I was deliberately not posting the problems, since that
might look like a complaint. I'm not trying to get action.

I really was just describing a situation. I understand there
are some here who wish that Linux were a viable alternative
to the various MicroSoft products that are available. She's
a technically competent user, just not expert at Linux, who
wants her machine just to work.

She was willing to learn to use other tools to do her work,
but she wasn't willing to spend time making the tools work.
Or at least, only limited time.

I provide this information only as an indicator of where
there might be an opportunity to win more Windows users
and lose fewer.

Mike
--
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!


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