date:20131012

El Fri, 11 Oct 2013 18:21:58 -0300, Fabián Bonetti escribió:

 On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 14:06:43 + (UTC)
 Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 
 Y más de lo mismo :-P
 
 
 No es mas de lo mismo, esta construida de forma distinta

¿En qué sentido?

 todo el sistema esta contenido en 10 archivos *.lzm

¿Y qué ventaja diferencial tiene eso? Porque distribuciones ligeras y 
súper-compactas las hay para aburrir.

 Y no olvidar el matiz político dentro

Buff... eso aquí (en esta lista) sirve de bien poco.

 Estrella Roja GNU/Linux tuvo como codename Hugo Chávez Frías en la
 versión 11.08 Beta http://estrellarojalibre.com.ar/doc/CAMBIOS.txt

Como si le quieren poner como nombre en clave pingüino loco.

Y poco cambios veo, la verdad, no me convence lo más mínimo; parece muy 
desactualizada (los últimos cambios son de hace 2 años).

Saludos,

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Re: OT: Lightning dejó de funcional tras actualización de Thunderbird oficial

El Fri, 11 Oct 2013 22:35:27 -0300, Sergio Bessopeanetto escribió:

 Viernes 11 de octubre se actualizó Thunderbird por la versión 24.0.1,
 tras la cual dejó de funcionar el complemento Ligtning. ¿Alguien lo usa?
 ¿Le pasó lo mismo?

(...)

Sí, y ayer lo actualicé... ¡¡Ostras!! Adiós calendario :-(

(buscando...)

Mira, han abierto un informe de fallo:

Lightning 2.6 not working with TB 24.0.1 [Linux] 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=925823

A ver qué dicen. Qué mal rollito...
 
Saludos,

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Re: Debian testing y terminal emulator (root) ¿Bug?

El Sat, 12 Oct 2013 13:49:18 +0200, Eduardo Rios escribió:

 El 12/10/13 11:23, Eduardo Rios escribió:
 Aunque ahora estoy en sid, también seguía teniendo el problema. Hasta
 hoy. Ya lo han solucionado.
 
 Pues no he dicho nada. Sigue fallando :-P

Cuando lo arreglen aparecerá indicado en el bug que mandé, de momento no 
lo han marcado como fixed en ninguna versión de los paquetes.

Saludos,

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Re: [OT] Un derivado Debian particular

2013-10-12 Thread Fabián Bonetti

On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 13:34:32 + (UTC)
Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote:


 Y poco cambios veo, la verdad, no me convence lo más mínimo; parece muy 
 desactualizada (los últimos cambios son de hace 2 años).
 

Aquí pecas de no conocer las bondades de Estrella Roja. Dentro tiene un 
poderoso script que remasteriza 

la distro. Hablando de eso deja de ser desactualizada.




1º haces un upgrade a el sistema
2º remasteriza a un .iso (en menos de 5min actualizado) 










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Re: [OT] Un derivado Debian particular

El Sat, 12 Oct 2013 12:02:53 -0300, Fabián Bonetti escribió:

 On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 13:34:32 + (UTC)
 Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 Y poco cambios veo, la verdad, no me convence lo más mínimo; parece muy
 desactualizada (los últimos cambios son de hace 2 años).
 
 
 Aquí pecas de no conocer las bondades de Estrella Roja. Dentro tiene un
 poderoso script que remasteriza
 
 la distro. Hablando de eso deja de ser desactualizada.

De nada sirven los cambios si el usuario no es consciente de ellos. Las 
actualizaciones y las mejoras tienen que estar documentadas.

 1º haces un upgrade a el sistema 2º remasteriza a un .iso (en menos de
 5min actualizado)

Va a ser que no, gracias. Parece una distribución desarrollada un poco al 
estilo compadre y repito que no ofrece nada nuevo.

Saludos,

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Re: [OT] Un derivado Debian particular


El 11/10/13 08:42, C. L. Martinez escribió:

2013/10/10  eldebiandep...@gmail.com:

El 10/10/13 23:55, Carlos Zuniga escribió:


2013/10/10 Fabián Bonetti mama21m...@riseup.net:




Web nueva con mirror, filosofía y mas.

http://estrellarojalibre.com.ar/

Su archivo .iso trae 5000 paquetes, es live-cd. Se puede instalar.

Base Debian 6.0.1
Linux Kernel 3.0.4 PREEMPT Real Time
Escritorio LXDE

Para los recién llegado a Debian por si no conocían esta distro.



No soy recién llegado y no la conocía :)

Por que Debian 6.0.1? La estable es la 7.1... ah, veo que la
publicaron hace un año.

De todos modos, sabes que cambios han hecho sobre el Debian vainilla?
por lo que veo es el tema de LXDE y la inclusión de drivers wifi, pero
como de esto hace un año, imagino que Debian ya trae paquetes para
todos esos drivers...

Lo del Kernel PREEMPT es interesante, Debian lo trae en los paquetes
linux-image-rt-* y en la estable están con el kernel versión 3.2 :D




Aunque estoy contento con la «dulce» estabilidad que me da Debian, tengo
ganas de que salga esta distribución:

http://www.tanglu.org/

Si cumplen con todo lo que «prometen» posiblemente sea mi segunda distro.



¿Y que ofrece esta diferente a las miles derivadas que ya hay de
Debian? Porque yo no le veo nada especial ... Parece una más ... De



En las preguntas frecuentes te explican un poco de que va y algunas 
diferencias existen... mejor dicho, existirán.




verdad que no entiendo este tipo de diversificaciones. Estoy a favor
de distros especializadas en algún aspecto: multimedia, ciencia,
seguridad, etc ... Pero esto de refritos y más refritos no le veo
sentido ...



Vale y otros dirán que la paquetería multimedia, de ciencias, etc... la 
tienes al alcance de la mano desde los repositorios... y los más purista 
saltarán que como mejor se hacen las cosas es compilando a mano 
únicamente lo que necesites...




Soy de los que opinan de que este es un factor clave de porque Linux
no triunfa en escritorio (obviamente hay otros) ... No tienen sentido
esas miles de distros basadas en Debian, Arch y demás ...



Hombre, visto así...

- ¿Porqué usar .deb en vez de .rpm?, se podrían haber unificado todos y 
ahorrar trabajo.


- ¿Porqué Linus sacó su kernel en vez de apoyar/cooperar en Hurd o 
incluso BSD?


- ¿Porqué Debian, Red Hat, Slackware, Arch... si todos son base Linux?

Se dice que en la variedad está el gusto... todos no somos iguales ni 
podemos pensar igual.


Aunque en cierto sentido tienes razón, en Linux tenemos la «libertad» de 
hacer y elegir lo que nos plazca y si no quieres probar algo nuevo con 
no instalarlo es suficiente, lo que no me parece justo es criticar o 
desprestigiar el trabajo de muchos que solo quieren aportar su granito 
de arena en este «mundillo» y que en un momento dado pueden ofrecer algo 
innovador, un punto de vista diferente o simplemente ideas frescas.


Pero como he dicho antes, todos no podemos pensar igual.



Es lo mismo que Android ... O Google para de liberar una versión cada
3/4/5 meses o se lo cargará y la gente se hartará ...



Bueno yo diría que eso es más bien puro marketing, si no ofrecen algo 
nuevo cada cierto tiempo (aunque sea un simple «lavado de cara») 
entonces es cuando la gente se puede aburrir.




Saludos.





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Re: [OT] Uso de patrones geométricos en LO


El 11/10/13 17:33, Camaleón escribió:

El Thu, 10 Oct 2013 23:53:28 +0200, eldebiandepepe escribió:


El 10/10/13 18:31, Camaleón escribió:

El Thu, 10 Oct 2013 18:14:07 +0200, Javier Silva escribió:


(...)


La imagen es realmente un patrón con el que puedes rellenar cualquier
elemento, tanto una celda como la página entera.


Ya, pero no quería tener que recurrir a eso... si al menos LO tuviera
una biblioteca de imágenes propia (¡ocupa ~500 MiB la suite
ofimática!) que se pudieran usar como patrones geométricos, pero
tampoco.



Quizás los desarrolladores de LibreOffice piensen que eso es algo más
bien «personal» que práctico, ya que con los colores que trae debería de
ser suficiente... pero para gustos los colores, siempre lo he dicho.


No lo creo, digo, que tenga algo de personal.

Imagina una empresa con miles de documentos realizados en MS Word que
quiere cambiar a LO y que en esos documentos usan ese tipo de patrón que
no está disponible en LO y cuando abren uno de sus .doc se encuentran
que en lugar de un fondo rayado hay una bonita banda de color gris. Adiós
a la migración (o ya pueden pedir soporte externo -que al final se
traduce en gastos- para adaptar todos esos documentos).



Mira que te gusta complicar la cosa...



Parece que la solución pasa por tener un juego de imágenes, con un
tamaño pequeño, digamos de 64x64 píxels e utilizar de relleno usando
los estilos para mayor comodidad.


Tendría que descargarlos de algún lado, mejor.



Pues sí, hay varias páginas:


(a ver, se trata de patrones simples en dos colores, geométricos, nada de
fondos extravagantes o con motivos florales...)


http://www.deviantart.com/?q=patterns


http://www.deviantart.com/art/Patterns-17089286

El primero me gusta pero es para Photoshop (.pat), no sé si lo reconocerá
LO.


http://www.3quarks.com/en/BackgroundPattern/index.html


Estos no me convencen... además, son para usar en la propia página web
como fondo usando CSS.


http://www.dinpattern.com/


Buff... súper-barroco (da dolor de cabeza sólo mirarlo).


http://everydayicons.jp/patterns.html


Muy colorido.


http://squidfingers.com/patterns/


Igual, tienen demasiados colores.


http://www.kollermedia.at/pattern4u/


De estas podría aprovechar alguna.



¿No te ha gustado ninguno? ...como para regalarte una camiseta, conmigo 
no cuentes.




Y seguramente muchas más, pero mira antes las condiciones de uso.


Esa es otra. Los documentos que tengo son de la empresa no para uso
personal, la licencia de esas imágenes debe permitir su uso sin
restricciones.


El propio GIMP tiene muchos rellenos, aunque no se como convertir de
forma fácil esos archivos de texto con la extensión ggr.



También puedes crear uno personalizado con Gimp en .gif aunque en .jpg o
.png creo que también vale... tendrías que probar.


Sí, pero me parece excesivo tener que hacer eso. Entiendo que si alguien
quiere usar un patrón poco convencional (personalizado) pues sí, para eso
sirve esa opción pero una cosa tan básica como un fondo rayado o
punteado...

(...)


Y luego se extrañarán de que la gente use MS Word ;-(



Bueno, por norma general lo primero que se usa hoy día es Windows (al
menos en España) y por ende su suite ofimática.


Exacto. Y quien quiera pasarse a LO se va a encontrar con este tipo de
problemas, que son tontos, pero que no dejan de ser un lastre para una
empresa ya que requiere tiempo y recursos en hacer una conversión de doc
a odt que se adecúe al formato antiguo.


Yo diría más bien que la gente no quiere cambiar de «suite» porque están
acostumbrados a ella... pero que no quieren usar LibreOffice por no
tener esos «patrones», no sé... para mí que mucha gente no sabe que
existe esa opción al crear una tabla en Word.


Nadie está diciendo que por _una_ funcionalidad inexistente no se cambie
de suite. Si sólo fuera una... El problema es que es 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 +
1 + 1 ... hasta que lo dejan y acaban comprando otra licencia de la nueva
versión de Office ;-(



Chica así no «vendemos la burra»... piensa quue los cambios (sean de 
cualquier tipo) no son fáciles, siempre se ha dicho que quien algo 
quiere algo le cuesta y en este caso son «algunas» funcionalidades que 
con el tiempo se corregirán o agregarán, solo hay que hacérselo saber a 
los desarrolladores para que lo incluyan en la nueva versión.


Aún así ya hay ciertas administraciones en España que han abandonado MS 
Office definitivamente y ahora usan LibreOffice, o sea que no será muy 
pejiguera la cosa.




Saludos,




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Re: [OT] Uso de patrones geométricos en LO


El 11/10/13 19:46, Camaleón escribió:

El Thu, 10 Oct 2013 15:55:09 +, Camaleón escribió:


Estoy buscando la forma de usar patrones¹ geométricos simples en LO
(Writer, más bien) como fondo de una celda pero sólo veo dos opciones:


(...)

He puesto un informe de fallo (de tipo mejora) en LO:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70384



Muy bien, te lo he comentado antes, si quieres que incluyan algo debes 
decírselo, al menos así se enteran.




Saludos,




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Re: [OT] Uso de patrones geométricos en LO


El 11/10/13 19:46, Camaleón escribió:

El Thu, 10 Oct 2013 15:55:09 +, Camaleón escribió:


Estoy buscando la forma de usar patrones¹ geométricos simples en LO
(Writer, más bien) como fondo de una celda pero sólo veo dos opciones:


(...)

He puesto un informe de fallo (de tipo mejora) en LO:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70384

Saludos,



Mira que eres joia... pero si tienes un .gif!!!

Corta el el dibujito que más te guste con GIMP y aplícalo a tus 
tablas... y anda que no son feos ni «ná»... yo me esperaba algo más... 
no sé... exclusivo.





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kmix audio configuracion kde debian testing

2013-10-12 Thread Maykel Franco

Hola buenas, he visto que algunas distro con kde, como por ejemplo
opensuse, cuando clickeabas al boton derecho encima de kmix y le dabas
a configuración, aparecia una pestaña de configuración de audio,
adjunto captura de imagne por si me explico mal:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/hmli.png/

El caso, es que no sé que paquete tengo que instalar para que me
aparezca. Lo quiero porque lo usaba cuando conectaba el portatil por
hdmi al televisor y le cambiaba el audio para que lo sacara por la
tele.

He buscado pero de momento no encuentro nada, seguiré mirando. Si
consigo encontrarlo/integrarlo, lo comento por aquí por si alguien le
hiciera falta o interesara.

Gracias de antemano.

Saludos


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Re: [OT] Uso de patrones geométricos en LO

El Sat, 12 Oct 2013 17:30:16 +0200, eldebiandepepe escribió:

 El 11/10/13 19:46, Camaleón escribió:
 El Thu, 10 Oct 2013 15:55:09 +, Camaleón escribió:

 Estoy buscando la forma de usar patrones¹ geométricos simples en LO
 (Writer, más bien) como fondo de una celda pero sólo veo dos opciones:

 (...)

 He puesto un informe de fallo (de tipo mejora) en LO:

 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70384
 
 
 Muy bien, te lo he comentado antes, si quieres que incluyan algo debes
 decírselo, al menos así se enteran.

Sí, claro. Si por informar que no sea, pero ya verás lo que van a hacer 
con ese informe, en fin... mejor me callo. 

¿Sabes qué pasa? Que al final terminas hasta el gorro de poner informes 
de fallo, de mejora... sinceramente, espero _un mínimo_ de calidad en los 
programas que uso porque sino, dejo de usarlos y punto pelota.

modo divagando on

Nunca entenderé por qué linux no ha cuajado en el escritorio (entorno 
usuario casero) ya que es donde mayor flexibilidad existe (no hay 
limitaciones de tiempo ni horarios, de presupuesto, ni proyectos que 
cumplir, ni compatibilidades de formato infranqueables...) la libertad es 
total y absoluta y en cambio, lo más difícil, lo más complicado (como son 
los entornos críticos y grandes servidores), ahí es el rey.

Es el mundo al revés (-:

/modo divagando off

Saludos,

-- 
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Re: kmix audio configuracion kde debian testing

El Sat, 12 Oct 2013 18:25:14 +0200, Maykel Franco escribió:

 Hola buenas, he visto que algunas distro con kde, como por ejemplo
 opensuse, cuando clickeabas al boton derecho encima de kmix y le dabas a
 configuración, aparecia una pestaña de configuración de audio, adjunto
 captura de imagne por si me explico mal:
 
 http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/hmli.png/
 
 El caso, es que no sé que paquete tengo que instalar para que me
 aparezca. Lo quiero porque lo usaba cuando conectaba el portatil por
 hdmi al televisor y le cambiaba el audio para que lo sacara por la tele.
 
 He buscado pero de momento no encuentro nada, seguiré mirando. Si
 consigo encontrarlo/integrarlo, lo comento por aquí por si alguien le
 hiciera falta o interesara.

Me da la impresión de que puede ser que esa opción aparezca cuando 
instalas algún paquete de PulseAudio (para saber cuál podrías comparar la 
lista de paquetes que tienes instalados en openSUSE de PA con la de 
Debian), pero sinceramente, no te lo recomendaría, PA suele dar muchos 
problemas.

Saludos,

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Re: [OT] Uso de patrones geométricos en LO

El día 12 de octubre de 2013 18:29, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:
 El Sat, 12 Oct 2013 17:30:16 +0200, eldebiandepepe escribió:

 El 11/10/13 19:46, Camaleón escribió:
 El Thu, 10 Oct 2013 15:55:09 +, Camaleón escribió:

 Estoy buscando la forma de usar patrones¹ geométricos simples en LO
 (Writer, más bien) como fondo de una celda pero sólo veo dos opciones:

 (...)

 He puesto un informe de fallo (de tipo mejora) en LO:

 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70384


 Muy bien, te lo he comentado antes, si quieres que incluyan algo debes
 decírselo, al menos así se enteran.

 Sí, claro. Si por informar que no sea, pero ya verás lo que van a hacer
 con ese informe, en fin... mejor me callo.

 ¿Sabes qué pasa? Que al final terminas hasta el gorro de poner informes
 de fallo, de mejora... sinceramente, espero _un mínimo_ de calidad en los
 programas que uso porque sino, dejo de usarlos y punto pelota.


Chica, esto funciona así.
La gente hace software para cubrir sus necesidades, no para hacer lo
que hace el software privativo.
Si se pide alguna funcionalidad, pues la valoran y ven si vale la pena
perder el tiempo en ella.
Esto de los patrones que te quejas, es una rabieta infantil. LO puede
poner esos fondos geométricos que quieres, solo le tienes que pasar la
imagen. Si lo que tu quieres es que un documento de word se abra igual
que en word, usa word.
Creo que han hecho y siguen haciendo un gran trabajo de
compatibilidad, pero es un trabajo muy grande.

Supongo que con las fuentes también tendrás tus peleas... porque LO
tiene solo las libres y tu querrás usar las de M$.
(Que ahí puedes apañártelas importándolas, puede ser, pero es un caso
parecido...)


 modo divagando on

Este es tu modo por defecto ¿no? ;-)


 Nunca entenderé por qué linux no ha cuajado en el escritorio (entorno
 usuario casero) ya que es donde mayor flexibilidad existe (no hay
 limitaciones de tiempo ni horarios, de presupuesto, ni proyectos que
 cumplir, ni compatibilidades de formato infranqueables...) la libertad es
 total y absoluta y en cambio, lo más difícil, lo más complicado (como son
 los entornos críticos y grandes servidores), ahí es el rey.


Imagino que porque en el escritorio siempre se ha ido a remolque de
los demás y en servidor no, o porque los usuarios de escritorio son
tan cerrados que si no es igual que lo que están acostumbrados a usar
no es bueno.


S2.

 Es el mundo al revés (-:

 /modo divagando off

 Saludos,

 --
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Hibernación y tamaño de swap

2013-10-12 Thread Gerardo Diez García

En un hilo anterior de esta lista se hablaba sobre los tamaños de swap
en relación a la RAM disponible. Siguiendo la opinión de un listero cree
una partición swap de 4 GB teniendo una RAM de 8 GB. En ese hilo se daba
por supuesto que en esas condiciones la opción de hibernación se perdía
completamente.
El caso es que hoy he encontrado una página de arch [1] en la que
remiten a la documentación del kernel [2] donde se indica que el tamaño
que se empleará para generar la imagen a guardar en la swap en caso de
hibernación será, por defecto, de 2/5 del tamaño disponible. Por tanto,
abren la posibilidad a hibernar con tamaños de swap menores que la RAM.
También he encontrado una página de la Wiki de Debian que habla de
hibernar a archivo[3]

Unas primeras preguntas son: ¿alguno tiene experiencia en una situación
así con alguno de los dos sistemas? ¿cuál ha sido su experiencia?

En caso de que nadie se haya visto en una situación así la segunda
pregunta sería: ¿se pueden simular estos comportamientos en una máquina
virtual de 32 bits y que esas conclusiones sean validas para un sistema
de 64?[4]

[1]https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Suspend_and_Hibernate#About_swap_partition.2Ffile_size
[2]https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/power/interface.txt
[3]https://wiki.debian.org/Hibernation/Hibernate_Without_Swap_Partition
[4]Puede parecer muy obvia la respuesta, pero soy completamente nuevo en
el tema de la virtualización.

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Re: [OT] Uso de patrones geométricos en LO

El Sat, 12 Oct 2013 18:47:36 +0200, fernando sainz escribió:

 El día 12 de octubre de 2013 18:29, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com
 escribió:

(...)

 ¿Sabes qué pasa? Que al final terminas hasta el gorro de poner informes
 de fallo, de mejora... sinceramente, espero _un mínimo_ de calidad en
 los programas que uso porque sino, dejo de usarlos y punto pelota.


 Chica, esto funciona así.
 La gente hace software para cubrir sus necesidades, no para hacer lo que
 hace el software privativo.

Ya, ya... pues eso no es que lo que intentan vender desde el proyecto 
LO:

***
http://www.libreoffice.org/features/

What's outstanding about LibreOffice?

(...)

· Supports large number of file formats, including Microsoft Office 
binary formats, OOXML, and RTF – both loading and saving.

LibreOffice is user-friendly:

(...)

· Compatible with all major competitors' file formats. You can easily 
import files from Microsoft Word, Excel and PowerPoint and many other 
formats, and can easily save to Microsoft Office and other formats when 
needed.

(...)
***

Son ellos los que se auto-definen como competencia directa con MS Office 
y sus formatos, así a otro perro con ese hueso.

 Si se pide alguna funcionalidad, pues la valoran y ven si vale la pena
 perder el tiempo en ella.

Si realmente quieren cumplir con lo que dicen y ofrecer una solución 
compatible pues eso es lo que hay que hacer.

 Esto de los patrones que te quejas, es una rabieta infantil. LO puede
 poner esos fondos geométricos que quieres, solo le tienes que pasar la
 imagen. Si lo que tu quieres es que un documento de word se abra igual
 que en word, usa word.

Esa es precisamente la actitud que mata a los proyectos de software 
libre: menospreciar a los usuarios y no ser capaces de reconocer un 
problema cuando lo tienen delante. Mirar para otro lado no suele 
funcionar, ni en FLOSS ni en ningún otro aspecto de la vida.

 Creo que han hecho y siguen haciendo un gran trabajo de compatibilidad,
 pero es un trabajo muy grande.

Nadie dice lo contrario.

 Supongo que con las fuentes también tendrás tus peleas... porque LO
 tiene solo las libres y tu querrás usar las de M$.
 (Que ahí puedes apañártelas importándolas, puede ser, pero es un caso
 parecido...)

(...)

Con los tipos de letra no tengo ningún problema, puedo usar los mismos 
que usa MS Office o cualquier otra suite ofimática.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Hibernación y tamaño de swap

El Sat, 12 Oct 2013 18:48:01 +0200, Gerardo Diez García escribió:

 En un hilo anterior de esta lista se hablaba sobre los tamaños de swap
 en relación a la RAM disponible. Siguiendo la opinión de un listero cree
 una partición swap de 4 GB teniendo una RAM de 8 GB. 

Si quieres hibernar el sistema, necesitas la misma cantidad de swap que 
de ram.

 En ese hilo se daba por supuesto que en esas condiciones la opción de
 hibernación se perdía completamente.

Correcto. Salvo que uses un archivo en lugar de una partición de datos.

 El caso es que hoy he encontrado una página de arch [1] en la que
 remiten a la documentación del kernel [2] donde se indica que el tamaño
 que se empleará para generar la imagen a guardar en la swap en caso de
 hibernación será, por defecto, de 2/5 del tamaño disponible. Por tanto,
 abren la posibilidad a hibernar con tamaños de swap menores que la RAM.
 También he encontrado una página de la Wiki de Debian que habla de
 hibernar a archivo[3]

Bueno, sí, técnicamente hablando hay una compresión de datos de la imagen 
cuando se hiberna pero para asegurarse de que va a funcionar conviene 
disponer de una relación de tamaño de la partición de 1:1.

 Unas primeras preguntas son: ¿alguno tiene experiencia en una situación
 así con alguno de los dos sistemas? ¿cuál ha sido su experiencia?

Ninguna porque no hiberno nunca :-)

 En caso de que nadie se haya visto en una situación así la segunda
 pregunta sería: ¿se pueden simular estos comportamientos en una máquina
 virtual de 32 bits y que esas conclusiones sean validas para un sistema
 de 64?[4]

Hum... puedes probar todas las opciones (jugar con el tamaño de la imagen 
al hibernar y probar con un archivo en lugar de usar una partición /swap) 
pero obviamente el tamaño de la imagen resultante diferirá en un sistema 
simulado de 32 bits del de otro de 64 bits instalado sobre hierros.

Otra cosa a tener en cuenta es que con una VM la hibernación no siempre 
va fina, al menos con VirtualBox que es lo que he probado.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: kmix audio configuracion kde debian testing

2013-10-12 Thread Antoni Bella Pérez

El Dissabte, 12 d'octubre de 2013, a les 18:25:14, Maykel Franco va escriure:
 Hola buenas, he visto que algunas distro con kde, como por ejemplo
 opensuse, cuando clickeabas al boton derecho encima de kmix y le dabas
 a configuración, aparecia una pestaña de configuración de audio,
 adjunto captura de imagne por si me explico mal:
 
 http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/hmli.png/
 
 El caso, es que no sé que paquete tengo que instalar para que me
 aparezca. Lo quiero porque lo usaba cuando conectaba el portatil por
 hdmi al televisor y le cambiaba el audio para que lo sacara por la
 tele.
 
 He buscado pero de momento no encuentro nada, seguiré mirando. Si
 consigo encontrarlo/integrarlo, lo comento por aquí por si alguien le
 hiciera falta o interesara.
 
 Gracias de antemano.
 
 Saludos

  Hola

  Lo que buscas es el «systemsettings».

  Aquí tienes una explicación de porque no encuentras ese botón:

http://userbase.kde.org/KMix/es

  Toni


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Re: kmix audio configuracion kde debian testing

2013-10-12 Thread Maykel Franco

El día 12 de octubre de 2013 19:14, Antoni Bella Pérez
antonibel...@orange.es escribió:
El Dissabte, 12 d'octubre de 2013, a les 18:25:14, Maykel Franco va escriure:
Hola buenas, he visto que algunas distro con kde, como por ejemplo
opensuse, cuando clickeabas al boton derecho encima de kmix y le dabas
a configuración, aparecia una pestaña de configuración de audio,
adjunto captura de imagne por si me explico mal:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/hmli.png/

El caso, es que no sé que paquete tengo que instalar para que me
aparezca. Lo quiero porque lo usaba cuando conectaba el portatil por
hdmi al televisor y le cambiaba el audio para que lo sacara por la
tele.

He buscado pero de momento no encuentro nada, seguiré mirando. Si
consigo encontrarlo/integrarlo, lo comento por aquí por si alguien le
hiciera falta o interesara.

Gracias de antemano.

Saludos

Hola

Lo que buscas es el «systemsettings».

Aquí tienes una explicación de porque no encuentras ese botón:

http://userbase.kde.org/KMix/es

Toni

Gracias a todos. Como siempre, Camaleón das en el clavo

No tengo un debian ahora mismo a mano, pero lo he probado en un
archlinux que tengo en una VM con este paquetito tan bonico:

pulseaudio-alsa

Cada distro es un mundo, pero tenía más que ver con pulseaudio que con
el propio kmix.

[root@arch-maykel maykel]# pacman -Si pulseaudio-alsa
Repositorio : extra
Nombre: pulseaudio-alsa
Versión : 2-2
Descripción : ALSA Configuration for PulseAudio
Arquitectura : any
URL : http://www.pulseaudio.org
Licencias : GPL
Grupos: Nada
Provee: Nada
Depende de: alsa-plugins=1.0.25 pulseaudio
Dep. opcionales : Nada
En conflicto con: Nada
Reemplaza a : Nada
Tamaño de Descarga : 0,69 KiB
Tamaño instalado : 4,00 KiB
Empaquetador : Jan Alexander Steffens (heftig) jan.steff...@gmail.com
Fecha de compilación : sáb 02 feb 2013 04:21:34 CET
Validado Por : Suma MD5 Suma SHA256 Firma

Gracias una vez más. Lo necesitaba para pasar el audio por hdmi.

Saludos.

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Re: kmix audio configuracion kde debian testing

2013-10-12 Thread Maykel Franco

El día 12 de octubre de 2013 19:46, Maykel Franco
maykeldeb...@gmail.com escribió:
El día 12 de octubre de 2013 19:14, Antoni Bella Pérez
antonibel...@orange.es escribió:
El Dissabte, 12 d'octubre de 2013, a les 18:25:14, Maykel Franco va escriure:
Hola buenas, he visto que algunas distro con kde, como por ejemplo
opensuse, cuando clickeabas al boton derecho encima de kmix y le dabas
a configuración, aparecia una pestaña de configuración de audio,
adjunto captura de imagne por si me explico mal:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/hmli.png/

He buscado pero de momento no encuentro nada, seguiré mirando. Si
consigo encontrarlo/integrarlo, lo comento por aquí por si alguien le
hiciera falta o interesara.

Gracias de antemano.

Saludos

Hola

Lo que buscas es el «systemsettings».

Aquí tienes una explicación de porque no encuentras ese botón:

http://userbase.kde.org/KMix/es

Toni

Gracias a todos. Como siempre, Camaleón das en el clavo

No tengo un debian ahora mismo a mano, pero lo he probado en un
archlinux que tengo en una VM con este paquetito tan bonico:

pulseaudio-alsa

Cada distro es un mundo, pero tenía más que ver con pulseaudio que con
el propio kmix.

Gracias una vez más. Lo necesitaba para pasar el audio por hdmi.

Saludos.

Eso sí, he tenido que matar kmix y volver arrancarlo para que
apareciera ésa opción.

Saludos.

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Re: [OT] Uso de patrones geométricos en LO

El día 12 de octubre de 2013 19:03, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:
El Sat, 12 Oct 2013 18:47:36 +0200, fernando sainz escribió:

El día 12 de octubre de 2013 18:29, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com
escribió:

(...)

¿Sabes qué pasa? Que al final terminas hasta el gorro de poner informes
de fallo, de mejora... sinceramente, espero _un mínimo_ de calidad en
los programas que uso porque sino, dejo de usarlos y punto pelota.

Chica, esto funciona así.
La gente hace software para cubrir sus necesidades, no para hacer lo que
hace el software privativo.

Ya, ya... pues eso no es que lo que intentan vender desde el proyecto
LO:

***
http://www.libreoffice.org/features/

What's outstanding about LibreOffice?

(...)

· Supports large number of file formats, including Microsoft Office
binary formats, OOXML, and RTF – both loading and saving.

LibreOffice is user-friendly:

(...)

· Compatible with all major competitors' file formats. You can easily
import files from Microsoft Word, Excel and PowerPoint and many other
formats, and can easily save to Microsoft Office and other formats when
needed.

(...)
***

Son ellos los que se auto-definen como competencia directa con MS Office
y sus formatos, así a otro perro con ese hueso.

No me gusta entrar en esta dinámica tuya de convertir la lista en un
chat, pero creo que estás perdiendo el norte.

Ellos no venden nada, hacen un trabajo de crear un paquete
ofimático al estilo de M-office para un tipo de usuario acostumbrado
a una forma de trabajar.
Intentan hacer un módulo de compatibilidad que hace lo que puede,
porque los formatos cerrados de M$ no son precisamente amigables, con
la intención de facilitar la migración.

Luego está el típico usuario que carga un fichero de word y le sale un
poco distinto y dice, vaya una mierda...
Yo también lo digo, cuando quiero abrir un .odt en algún equipo con
MS-office. (Ya que ellos no dicen que sean compatibles, claro, para
qué...)

Si se pide alguna funcionalidad, pues la valoran y ven si vale la pena
perder el tiempo en ella.

Si realmente quieren cumplir con lo que dicen y ofrecer una solución
compatible pues eso es lo que hay que hacer.

Sí y qué, eso es lo que hacen día a día...
Pero el objetivo principal es crear un buen paquete ofimático, abierto
y libre, no ser compatible con los formatos cerrados de M$.

Esto de los patrones que te quejas, es una rabieta infantil. LO puede
poner esos fondos geométricos que quieres, solo le tienes que pasar la
imagen. Si lo que tu quieres es que un documento de word se abra igual
que en word, usa word.

Esa es precisamente la actitud que mata a los proyectos de software
libre: menospreciar a los usuarios y no ser capaces de reconocer un
problema cuando lo tienen delante. Mirar para otro lado no suele
funcionar, ni en FLOSS ni en ningún otro aspecto de la vida.

Creo que han hecho y siguen haciendo un gran trabajo de compatibilidad,
pero es un trabajo muy grande.

Nadie dice lo contrario.

Supongo que con las fuentes también tendrás tus peleas... porque LO
tiene solo las libres y tu querrás usar las de M$.
(Que ahí puedes apañártelas importándolas, puede ser, pero es un caso
parecido...)

(...)

Con los tipos de letra no tengo ningún problema, puedo usar los mismos
que usa MS Office o cualquier otra suite ofimática.

Un punto para los LO. Permiten ser compatible con las fuentes de otros...
Ya, pero cuando hipotéticamente me mandes un documento con esas
fuentes, a mi me va a pasar lo mismo...

Saludos,

--
Camaleón

El software libre tiene sus cosas buenas y malas, yo he sufrido la
desaparición de paquetes que usaba y han sido sustituidos por otros
con distinta funcionalidad y bueno me he tenido que adaptar, porque
ese es el precio que hay que pagar por algo que no tiene precio...

Por cierto, está bien recortar los mensajes cuando se quiere contestar
solo a alguna parte del mismo, pero ten cuidado en no dejar las cosas
fuera de contexto, porque no es la primera vez que lo haces.

Y ya puestos a dar consejos que no se me han pedido, procura leer las
contestaciones que dan los demás antes de responder tu, porque la
lista está llena de mensajes tuyos respondiendo lo mismo que ya ha
respondido otra gente.

Otro más, no estás obligada a responder a todos los mensajes.

Puedes responder a esto, pero no esperes respuesta, no quiero entrar
en esa dinámica tuya de ser el que tenga la última palabra.

S2.

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¿Cómo reproducir un CD de audio en Debian 6?

2013-10-12 Thread academia

Hola listeros. Hace unos días una profesora de Apreciación de la Música
impartía su clase en el laboratorio de computación de mi red local (todas
con debian 6) Al querer utilizar un CD de audio en su clase pues ESTE NO
FUNCIONÓ. Lo mismo me ocurrió en casa cuando un amigo me dio a probar un
curso de italiano. Pudieran explicarme qué hacer para lograr que se
reproduzcan estos CDs. La extensión original de estos CDs es .cda (visto
desde windows, y funciona perfect), pero cuando lo introduzco en la
lectora desde debian la extensión que me pone es .wav El reproductor que
utilizo es el vlc. NO TENGO INTERNET.



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Re: ¿Cómo reproducir un CD de audio en Debian 6?

2013-10-12 Thread Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez


El Sab, 12 de Octubre de 2013, 3:00 pm, acade...@pinarte.cult.cu escribió:
 Hola listeros. Hace unos días una profesora de Apreciación de la Música
 impartía su clase en el laboratorio de computación de mi red local (todas
 con debian 6) Al querer utilizar un CD de audio en su clase pues ESTE NO
 FUNCIONÓ. Lo mismo me ocurrió en casa cuando un amigo me dio a probar un
 curso de italiano. Pudieran explicarme qué hacer para lograr que se
 reproduzcan estos CDs. La extensión original de estos CDs es .cda (visto
 desde windows, y funciona perfect), pero cuando lo introduzco en la
 lectora desde debian la extensión que me pone es .wav El reproductor que
 utilizo es el vlc. NO TENGO INTERNET.


Puedes usar el Kaffeine es un reproductor muy potente y reproduce los CD
de audio .cda saludos.



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Re: ¿Cómo reproducir un CD de audio en Debian 6?

El día 12 de octubre de 2013 21:00,  acade...@pinarte.cult.cu escribió:
 Hola listeros. Hace unos días una profesora de Apreciación de la Música
 impartía su clase en el laboratorio de computación de mi red local (todas
 con debian 6) Al querer utilizar un CD de audio en su clase pues ESTE NO
 FUNCIONÓ. Lo mismo me ocurrió en casa cuando un amigo me dio a probar un
 curso de italiano. Pudieran explicarme qué hacer para lograr que se
 reproduzcan estos CDs. La extensión original de estos CDs es .cda (visto
 desde windows, y funciona perfect), pero cuando lo introduzco en la
 lectora desde debian la extensión que me pone es .wav El reproductor que
 utilizo es el vlc. NO TENGO INTERNET.


Parece que tu escritorio de alguna manera utiliza un pseudo filesystem
para mostrar el contenido del disco de audio.
Pero los discos de audio no se montan.
Arrancas un programa vlc por ejemplo: El menú medio/Abrir disco y
eliges que es un cd y ya está.

S2.


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Fwd: Re: ¿Cómo reproducir un CD de audio en Debian 6?

2013-10-12 Thread Raúl Armenta

-- Mensaje reenviado --
De: Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez ruben.cervan...@cmg.jovenclub.cu
Fecha: 12/10/2013 22:28
Asunto: Re: ¿Cómo reproducir un CD de audio en Debian 6?
Para: acade...@pinarte.cult.cu
Cc: debian-user-spanish@lists.debian.org


 El Sab, 12 de Octubre de 2013, 3:00 pm, acade...@pinarte.cult.cu escribió:
  Hola listeros. Hace unos días una profesora de Apreciación de la Música
  impartía su clase en el laboratorio de computación de mi red local
(todas
  con debian 6) Al querer utilizar un CD de audio en su clase pues ESTE NO
  FUNCIONÓ. Lo mismo me ocurrió en casa cuando un amigo me dio a probar un
  curso de italiano. Pudieran explicarme qué hacer para lograr que se
  reproduzcan estos CDs. La extensión original de estos CDs es .cda (visto
  desde windows, y funciona perfect), pero cuando lo introduzco en la
  lectora desde debian la extensión que me pone es .wav El reproductor que
  utilizo es el vlc. NO TENGO INTERNET.
 

 Puedes usar el Kaffeine es un reproductor muy potente y reproduce los CD
 de audio .cda saludos.



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En vlc, selecciona en abrir, abrir medio y Cd. Es de memoria lo que te
digo, sin verlo no puedo afinar más.
Un saludo.
Noseasasi

Usuarios en pantalla de logueo

2013-10-12 Thread Pablo

Gente acudo a la comunidad para que me den una mano. Hace tiempo habia
logrado solucionar esto y ahora no doy pie con bola. No me acuerdo como lo
habia sacado en su momento. Lo que necesito es que en la pantalla de logueo
de mi debian no me figuren los nombres de usuarios. Se que esto era posible
tocando un archivo de configuracion pero no me acuerdo cual. Y no estoy
dando con el dato. Si alguien tiene alguna punta como para seguir buscando
se lo agradeceria.

-- 
Pablo

Re: Usuarios en pantalla de logueo

El día 13 de octubre de 2013 04:33, Pablo pablocar...@gmail.com escribió:
 Gente acudo a la comunidad para que me den una mano. Hace tiempo habia
 logrado solucionar esto y ahora no doy pie con bola. No me acuerdo como lo
 habia sacado en su momento. Lo que necesito es que en la pantalla de logueo
 de mi debian no me figuren los nombres de usuarios. Se que esto era posible
 tocando un archivo de configuracion pero no me acuerdo cual. Y no estoy
 dando con el dato. Si alguien tiene alguna punta como para seguir buscando
 se lo agradeceria.

 --
 Pablo

Bueno, deberías indicar que display manager usas.
Probablemente sea gdm3 con lo que debes ir a /etc/gdm3 y buscar ahí.
La opción es disable-user-list

S2.


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Re: Alexandre Alves Borba mentioned you in an update

2013-10-12 Thread Thiago Oliveira

Começa as 14 hs, mas vai ateh que horas?

*Thiago Oliveira*
Graduando de Segurança da Informação
FATEC-SCShttp://www.fatecsaocaetano.edu.br/
Email Pessoal  troolive...@gmail.com  Email
Acadêmicothiago.oliveir...@fatec.sp.gov.br
Twitter http://www.twitter.com/trooliveira
Facebookhttp://br.linkedin.com/in/trooliveira
Linkedin http://br.linkedin.com/in/trooliveira Skype: trooliveira



Em 10 de outubro de 2013 18:25, Debian Dicas corin...@debiandicas.orgescreveu:

 Ate eu sei fazer uns pacotes debian, mas na parte de jogos. Tenho um
 repositório onde fico adicionando estes pacotes para a pessoal baixarem:

 http://archive.ubuntugames.org/dists

 Mas ainda pelo visto não esta nos padrões da politica do Debian. É bom ir
 neste encontro pra saber melhor e no que estou errando pra me corrigir
 futuramente.


 Em 10 de outubro de 2013 18:09, Helio Loureiro 
 he...@loureiro.eng.brescreveu:

 Esqueci de falar (ou escrever), mas a idéia é fazer uma hackaton de
 pacotes ao final e tentar tirar alguns pacotes Debian marcados como órfãos
 desse estado.

 Abs,
 Helio Loureiro
 http://helio.loureiro.eng.br
 http://br.linkedin.com/in/helioloureiro
 http://twitter.com/helioloureiro
 http://gplus.to/helioloureiro


 Em 10 de outubro de 2013 17:42, Debian Dicas 
 corin...@debiandicas.orgescreveu:

 Me inscrevi e irei me esforçar em poder comparecer deste dia para rever o
 pessoal que conheço e que irei conhecer.


 Em 10 de outubro de 2013 17:27, Thiago T. Faioli 
 thiago.fai...@gmail.com escreveu:

 Valeu pelo convite, mas eu moro em MG ;- )



 Em 10 de outubro de 2013 17:18, Helio Loureiro 
 he...@loureiro.eng.brescreveu:

 Para quem quiser participar, vai ter uma oficina de criação de pacotes
 deb na iMasters, aqui em São Paulo.

 A iMasters fica próxima da estação Consolação do metrô.




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  *Alexandre Alves Borba* mentioned you in an update

   Um encontro criado para que as pessoas possam reservar meio dia
 por mês das suas vidas para ajudar em algum projeto Open Source. Todos são
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RE: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

  Not really, you at least need to manually add a link, regarding to the
  different program names.
 
  I never did, and never had to.  It works fine.
 
 Just because you're using software that doesn't use this software as a
 dependency.

I don't know what you are talking about.


  Sure, if mate-file-archiver is installed, you might not need
  file-roller, but you perhaps want to be able to install a DE by it's
  meta-packages, but this doesn't work, if one of the DEs is Mate, because
  those packages cause conflicts.
 
 
  Again, never a problem for me, since v. 1.2.
 
  I don't have any package named mate-file-archiver installed or available
  to install.  There's engrampa, which does not conflict at all with
  file-roller.
 
 Upstream:
 
 https://github.com/mate-desktop/debian-packages
--
 https://github.com/mate-desktop/debian-packages/tree/master/mate-file-
 archiver
 
 https://github.com/mate-desktop/archlinux-packages
--
 https://github.com/mate-desktop/archlinux-packages/tree/master/mate-
 file-archiver


It's out-of-date.



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RE: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

 https://github.com/mate-desktop/archlinux-packages

From the linked page:  mate-file-archiver:  Removed any packages from the 
'depends' that are pulled in via gtk2.  24 days ago

Looks to me like they fixed the conflict in Arch.  You have no leg to stand on 
with this one.  Also, that's Arch.  The Debian version does not have this 
problem.  





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RE: Installing Cinnamon 2.0


 
 https://github.com/mate-desktop/debian-packages
--
 https://github.com/mate-desktop/debian-packages/tree/master/mate-file-
 archiver

These are irrelevant.  mate-file-archiver does not exist anymore, and engrampa 
is optional.




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Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 01:43 -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
   Not really, you at least need to manually add a link, regarding 
   to the different program names.
  
   I never did, and never had to.  It works fine.
  
  Just because you're using software that doesn't use this software 
  as dependency.
 
 I don't know what you are talking about.

Read the mails or rephrase your question. I don't understand your
question. It's about another conflict that does need a workaround _for
Debian/Ubuntu too_.

[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ ls -l /usr/bin/matedialog 
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 Aug 18 18:06 /usr/bin/matedialog - zenity

Some software for Mate does launch matedialog and some software for
GNOME (or other GTK based DEs) does use zenity. IOW you not only need
the above link, but also a dummy package.

[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo ntpdate ntp.favey.ch  sudo pacman -S
mate-dialogs
12 Oct 09:58:25 ntpdate[2931]: adjust time server 195.34.89.227 offset
0.007741 sec
warning: downgrading package mate-dialogs (2013.08.18-1 = 1.6.0-2)
resolving dependencies...
looking for inter-conflicts...
:: mate-dialogs and zenity are in conflict. Remove zenity? [y/N]

And again and again and again, it's an issue caused by upstream, not by
Arch Linux, the situation for Debian/Ubuntu is the same! There might be
package maintainers who maintain some Mate packages for Debian not
following upstream, this could solve some issues, but not those similar
to the matedialog issue.

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 02:20 -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
  https://github.com/mate-desktop/archlinux-packages
 
 From the linked page:  mate-file-archiver:  Removed any packages from
 the 'depends' that are pulled in via gtk2.  24 days ago
 
 Looks to me like they fixed the conflict in Arch.  You have no leg to
 stand on with this one.  Also, that's Arch.  The Debian version does
 not have this problem.  

No, it's not an official Arch repository and the dependencies are from
upstream, should I repeat this again and again?
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo ntpdate ntp.favey.ch  sudo pacman -S 
mate-file-archiver
12 Oct 09:41:45 ntpdate[2868]: adjust time server 195.34.89.227 offset 
-0.439659 sec
resolving dependencies...
looking for inter-conflicts...
:: mate-file-archiver and file-roller are in conflict. Remove file-roller? [y/N]

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 02:21 -0500, Mark Allums wrote: 
  https://github.com/mate-desktop/debian-packages
 --
  https://github.com/mate-desktop/debian-packages/tree/master/mate-file-archiver
 These are irrelevant.  mate-file-archiver does not exist anymore, and
 engrampa is optional.

Github is obsolete? Can you post up-to-date links to upstream?

[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo ntpdate ntp.favey.ch  sudo pacman -S 
mate-file-archiver
12 Oct 10:04:31 ntpdate[2945]: adjust time server 195.34.89.227 offset 
-0.005115 sec
resolving dependencies...
looking for inter-conflicts...
:: mate-file-archiver and file-roller are in conflict. Remove
file-roller? [y/N]

However, even if some things should be solved by packages for what ever
distro, then there are maintainers who do a lot of work, to ensure that
the packages can be installed, whatever packages else are installed and
they need to take care that this doesn't change with an update. People
started to drop GNOME 3 and to search for a GNOME replacement, because
it was GNOME's policy to do similar insane things. I chose old Debian
stable, because they didn't make pulseaudio a hard dependency for GNOME
2. It was somebody like you Mark, who informed me about this, but he was
mistaken. When I needed to upgrade old stable, right after installing
it, because it was too outdated, pulseaudio became a hard dependency.

IOW even GNOME, where upstream fulfills basic rules regarding to
dependencies (conflicts) does cause issues, even by Debian packages.

However, the subject is Installing Cinnamon 2.0 and not Mate.


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Re: deploy ?

2013-10-12 Thread Diogene Laerce



Have you enabled the necessary WSGI modules in Apache and performed 
the necessary configuration? You have to remember that the Django 
python files need an application server to compile and process. Apache 
out of the box doesn't do that. mod_wshi is one option.


I guess you mean mod_wsgi cos I didn't find info on wshi. :)

Anyway I solved the problem : django pointed the url on localhost root. I
tried every combination of urls before except this one.

The others are using Nginx as a reverse proxy to the Gunicorn 
application server.


I had a look on those and I'd like to be sure of what I understood : I can
use 2 http servers, gunicorn for dynamic contents and nginx for static
contents. And all that, through a virtual environment (my workstation :
debian squeeze) served by pythonbrew. Yes ?

But I saw that some people use uwsgi too, on their website they say it
is for hosting purpose. So unless I need to run multiples domain names
on the same host, I do not need it, do I ?

Thank you

--
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“Le vrai n'est pas plus sûr que le probable.”

  Diogene Laerce


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Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

Mark, when you use your Outlook 15.0, please take care not to sent
duplicated mails. Perhaps you should use a MUA for Mate, instead of
using MS Windows.


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Re: gnome depends on adblock-plus

2013-10-12 Thread Marko Randjelovic

One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all 
and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie. :)

apt-get install gnome-applets gnome-screenshot gnome-session gnome-panel 
gnome-terminal gedit gdm3 file-roller gnome-icon-theme


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Re: gnome depends on adblock-plus

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 10:58 +0200, Marko Randjelovic wrote:
 apt-get install gnome-applets gnome-screenshot gnome-session
 gnome-panel gnome-terminal gedit gdm3 file-roller gnome-icon-theme

After running that apt-get command, there still would be a meta-package
available by the repositories, that can break your system by an update,
regarding to a really strange completely insane and unneeded hard
dependency.

Workarounds aren't solutions.

If package managements correctly used can break our systems, then
something needs a real fix, not a simple workaround.

Linux isn't Apple or Microsoft and it shouldn't become that bad.




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linux-image-3.10-3-amd64 unbootable: /dev/disk/by-uuid not created

2013-10-12 Thread Jesse Molina



Hi

I have a Debian unstable host which successfully boots from the 
linux-image-3.10-1-amd64 kernel package.  However, I recently installed 
the linux-image-3.10-3-amd64 kernel package, and it is unbootable.


When I boot from the linux-image-3.10-3-amd64 package kernel, the boot 
fails and drops me into the initramfs busybox.  The messge Gave up 
waiting for the root device. appears, along with ALERT! 
/dev/disk/by-uuid/bla-bla-bla-my-id-here does not exist..


The problem appears to be that udev is not creating /dev/disk/by-uuid/* 
and similar objects.  The only directory being created in /dev/disk is 
by-id.  Note that the mdadm arrays are being successfully assembled 
and I can see them if I cat /proc/mdstat.


the root= argument in grub is a UUID of a mdadm RAID1 array.  This 
host's boot part is a RAID1, and the root part is a RAID5.  This is 
standard PC desktop hardware with four disk drives upon which the md 
RAIDs are built.


The host has been dist-upgraded as of this time.

Advice appreciated.  Otherwise, I'll file a bug on it.



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Re: gnome depends on adblock-plus




Le 12.10.2013 10:58, Marko Randjelovic a écrit :

One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring
them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor where 
the

Shadows lie. :)

apt-get install gnome-applets gnome-screenshot gnome-session
gnome-panel gnome-terminal gedit gdm3 file-roller gnome-icon-theme


As I said, I am no longer a DE user, but before leaving the wonderful 
world of automatically installed DE through one package, I was using 
XFCE, and at a moment I noticed that I never used some applications, so 
I found a way to remove them: do not installing meta-package(1) was the 
solution.


But it does not change that a meta-package have a strange dependency.

More important, it is the gnome package. The one which is automatically 
installed by a default installation of Debian. Here, anew, I am not 
directly concerned, since I build my Debian from only the strict minimum 
number of packages(2)...



Notes:
1: In fact, I think that meta-packages should only have recommendations 
and suggestions, since they are automatically installed by a default 
Debian configuration. This would not change the default behavior, while 
it would provide tinkerers more freedom and flexibility. After all, by 
not being real softwares or features, they should not be able to have 
hard dependencies, because there is no *technical reality* behind that. 
Only political choices, and I do not think that a package management 
should take care of the politic side of things. This should be the 
admin's problem ( jokeI did not said sysadmin ;)/joke ).


2: plus some packages which are not vital at all, like cron, which I 
usually remove. I do not think it should be installed when you choose to 
have the strict minimum system. But this is a minor issue which is not 
the one I want to discuss here.



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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

2013-10-12 Thread Paul Cartwright

On 10/11/2013 08:24 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

 Wikipedia is hardly what I would call reliable.  This definition
 is one person's opinion, nothing more.
absolutely

 I happen to disagree.  Even single user systems need sysadmins.  And
 the sysadmin is the person ultimately responsible for the operation of
 the system.
don't you think most home use single-user systems have 2 people ?? my
wife  I share our computer so that IS a multi-user system..
and I am responsible for her setup also.. printers, software she likes...


 If all you have for an authority is Wikipedia, then your argument
 is not strong enough to convince me.  
me either.

-- 
Paul Cartwright
Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587


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RE: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

 Mark, when you use your Outlook 15.0, please take care not to sent
 duplicated mails. Perhaps you should use a MUA for Mate, instead of
 using MS Windows.


Don't bitch about Outlook.  I will continue to use it, never mind why.  Windows 
is not evil.  The mistake was mine, Outlook is not to blame, and I screwed up.  
I will try not make that mistake again, but if I do, it's not the end of the 
world.  Just ignore it, and if you have to, take a deep breath. 

Mark



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RE: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

 On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 01:43 -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
Not really, you at least need to manually add a link, regarding
to the different program names.
   
I never did, and never had to.  It works fine.
  
   Just because you're using software that doesn't use this software
   as dependency.
 
  I don't know what you are talking about.
 
 Read the mails or rephrase your question. I don't understand your
 question. It's about another conflict that does need a workaround _for
 Debian/Ubuntu too_.

No, it doesn't.  Give up, you are wrong about this.



 [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ ls -l /usr/bin/matedialog
 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 Aug 18 18:06 /usr/bin/matedialog - zenity
 
 Some software for Mate does launch matedialog and some software for
 GNOME (or other GTK based DEs) does use zenity. IOW you not only need
 the above link, but also a dummy package.
 
 [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo ntpdate ntp.favey.ch  sudo pacman -S
 mate-dialogs
 12 Oct 09:58:25 ntpdate[2931]: adjust time server 195.34.89.227 offset
 0.007741 sec
 warning: downgrading package mate-dialogs (2013.08.18-1 = 1.6.0-2)
 resolving dependencies...
 looking for inter-conflicts...
 :: mate-dialogs and zenity are in conflict. Remove zenity? [y/N]

Mate-dialogs does *not* conflict with zenity, when using the Debian package 
packaged by upstream. I don't know where you are getting this, but it's wrong. 



 
 And again and again and again, it's an issue caused by upstream, not by
 Arch Linux, the situation for Debian/Ubuntu is the same! There might be
 package maintainers who maintain some Mate packages for Debian not
 following upstream, this could solve some issues, but not those similar
 to the matedialog issue.
 
 On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 02:20 -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
   https://github.com/mate-desktop/archlinux-packages
 
  From the linked page:  mate-file-archiver:  Removed any packages from
  the 'depends' that are pulled in via gtk2.  24 days ago
 
  Looks to me like they fixed the conflict in Arch.  You have no leg to
  stand on with this one.  Also, that's Arch.  The Debian version does
  not have this problem.
 
 No, it's not an official Arch repository and the dependencies are from
 upstream, should I repeat this again and again?
 [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo ntpdate ntp.favey.ch  sudo pacman -S
 mate-file-archiver
 12 Oct 09:41:45 ntpdate[2868]: adjust time server 195.34.89.227 offset -
 0.439659 sec
 resolving dependencies...
 looking for inter-conflicts...
 :: mate-file-archiver and file-roller are in conflict. Remove file-roller? 
 [y/N]
 
 On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 02:21 -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
   https://github.com/mate-desktop/debian-packages
  --
   https://github.com/mate-desktop/debian-packages/tree/master/mate-
 file-archiver

*
*   
   *
*   These are irrelevant.  mate-file-archiver does not exist* 
* anymore, and  engrampa is optional.   *
*   
   *
*


 Github is obsolete? Can you post up-to-date links to upstream?
 
 [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo ntpdate ntp.favey.ch  sudo pacman -S
 mate-file-archiver
 12 Oct 10:04:31 ntpdate[2945]: adjust time server 195.34.89.227 offset -
 0.005115 sec
 resolving dependencies...
 looking for inter-conflicts...
 :: mate-file-archiver and file-roller are in conflict. Remove
 file-roller? [y/N]


Stop using Arch for examples.  We are not talking about Arch.  We are talking 
about the Debian Package made by upstream themselves.


 
 However, even if some things should be solved by packages for what ever
 distro, then there are maintainers who do a lot of work, to ensure that
 the packages can be installed, whatever packages else are installed and
 they need to take care that this doesn't change with an update. People
 started to drop GNOME 3 and to search for a GNOME replacement, because
 it was GNOME's policy to do similar insane things. I chose old Debian
 stable, because they didn't make pulseaudio a hard dependency for GNOME
 2. It was somebody like you Mark, who informed me about this, but he was
 mistaken. When I needed to upgrade old stable, right after installing
 it, because it was too outdated, pulseaudio became a hard dependency.
 
 IOW even GNOME, where upstream fulfills basic rules regarding to
 dependencies (conflicts) does cause issues, even by Debian packages.
 
 However, the subject is Installing Cinnamon 2.0 and not Mate.


The subject is also alternatives to Cinnamon (and Gnome 3).  Perhaps someone 
should change the subject line.


Ralf, every one of your objections to MATE have been refuted.  Come up with 
some new objections, and we'll discuss those.  Otherwise, try and keep in mind 
that you are not the only

Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

Hi Mark,

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 05:13 -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
  Mark, when you use your Outlook 15.0, please take care not to sent
  duplicated mails. Perhaps you should use a MUA for Mate, instead of
  using MS Windows.
 
 
 Don't bitch about Outlook.  I will continue to use it, never mind why.  
 Windows is not evil.  The mistake was mine, Outlook is not to blame, and I 
 screwed up.  I will try not make that mistake again, but if I do, it's not 
 the end of the world.  Just ignore it, and if you have to, take a deep breath.

Yes, mistakes can happen. There still is another mistake 


I don't nag about endless lines, Cc'ed messages etc. that often, just
when the amount of mails with such mistakes does increase too much for
my taste and I get sad of editing the quotes of my replies and to delete
duplicated mails.

It's not the end of the world, but unfavourable when you argument about
not running into issues with your computer, while causing issues for the
list, when you're using Windows, since Mate AFAIK indeed has no negative
impact to a Linux MUA.

IOW you might not experience issues with your computer, with Mate and/or
Windows, but you at least cause issues when using Windows. Those issues
aren't very serious, but you can't speak about your experiences, that
everything is ok, while it's not ok.

I can install Cinnamon and Mate on my machine too and at least use Mate,
it doesn't matter if I use Debian, Ubuntu or Arch. But again, for a
production environment my requirement is to get as less issues as
possible.

There's nothing bad with using the software somebody does prefer, I
didn't talk about Windows, but perhaps you understand that some users
are using e.g. Debian stable without or at least with less non-free
and/or third party packages. People using stable Linux distros without
adding third party repositories expect something that does cause less
issues, really less issues.

Regarding to the OPs request I guess that there's a reason that Debian
maintainers didn't upgrade to Cinnamon 2.0 yet. It's easy to build
packages that run on your or my machine, but a maintainer needs to
ensure that things don't break by nearly every combination of installed
packages.

I'm not nagging about you. My concern is to nag about recommending a
third party repository, that is known to cause issues. If the OP does
like Cinnamon, then IMO the OP should use the official packages to
ensure that it's as stable as possible and not to switch to Mate from a
third party repository. If the OP needs a bug fix or a new feature of
Cinnamon 2.0, it might be worse the effort to build it from source.

Last 2 Cents regarding to this part of the topic,
Ralf


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Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 6:55 PM,  berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
 Le 12.10.2013 00:46, Tom H a écrit :

 Did you notice the could've?

 Ermm... no, sorry :) did not noticed :/

Pas de soucis! :)


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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 06:19 -0400, Paul Cartwright wrote:
 don't you think most home use single-user systems have 2 people ??

Germany has become a society of singles, solo parents and of people who
live in relationships, but with separated households. Even food industry
makes huge profit by selling convenience foods for singles. Here you can
buy 3 packed salami slices. Perhaps we have more single persons who own
several computers, than several people sharing one computer. It seems to
differ from nation to nation. Some are single nations others are
family nations. I don't know statistics, but IIRC in Germany we've got
more smart phones, than citizens. I've got the impression that most
people in Germany have a smart phone, tablet PC, netbook or laptop and
they don't share it with somebody else. Sharing a laptop sometimes
happens, sharing smart phones, tablet PCs and netbooks not that often.
Desktop PCs are often used for a special purpose, e.g. for gaming and I
know people who play games with other people, but even if they sit in
the same room, they don't use one computer, but connect their computers
instead ... ok, then it becomes a multi-user-network, however, I suspect
that here most single-user systems do _not_ have 2 people. Even in
Europe it's likely different for meridional nations.

Regards,
Ralf


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RE: Installing Cinnamon 2.0


 IOW you might not experience issues with your computer, with Mate and/or
 Windows, but you at least cause issues when using Windows. Those issues
 aren't very serious, but you can't speak about your experiences, that
 everything is ok, while it's not ok.

I certainly can speak about it.  I use two machines, one with Windows 8, and 
one with Debian Jessie.  I consider the Linux machine my main machine, and I 
use Windows mainly for games and email.  I'm quite experienced with Debian, and 
I learn more every day.


 Regarding to the OPs request I guess that there's a reason that Debian
 maintainers didn't upgrade to Cinnamon 2.0 yet. It's easy to build
 packages that run on your or my machine, but a maintainer needs to
 ensure that things don't break by nearly every combination of installed
 packages.

I swear on a stack of Bibles, most people running Wheezy will have minimal 
trouble.  Note: I didn't say no trouble, or all people.  But that is true for 
most packages on Debian, even for those people running Stable. 


 I'm not nagging about you. My concern is to nag about recommending a
 third party repository, that is known to cause issues. If the OP does
 like Cinnamon, then IMO the OP should use the official packages to
 ensure that it's as stable as possible and not to switch to Mate from a
 third party repository. If the OP needs a bug fix or a new feature of
 Cinnamon 2.0, it might be worse the effort to build it from source.

The point of mentioning MATE was in context with adding MATE to Debian.  Our 
point was, there are only minor problems with that happening, and they should 
be solvable fairly easily within a short period of time (i.e., in the time 
between releases of Stable).  MATE is usable NOW, and it's mainly an irrational 
attachment to Gnome that prevents it, not any real problems with MATE.   

People are abandoning Gnome 3 in droves.  Most are turning to XFCE, I think 
largely because it is already in Debian.  If MATE were in Debian, a large 
contingent of those people would use MATE if it were available, I think, 
because most of them were using GNOME 2 before.  

  

Mark



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Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 05:57 -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
 But don't disparage others who use it.  That's just bigoted.

I never did that!

Does Debian recommend to use third party repositories?

Mate isn't ready yet to be used without issues, it someday might be
included to the official repositories. The decisions from upstream have
nothing to do with the used distro. The more a package maintainer needs
to work, to make upstream compatible to a distro, the more likely are
issues.

Why do you think that there is neither an official repository for
Debian, Ubuntu or Arch? Blind hate against Mate? Do you believe in a
conspiracy against Mate?

 Ralf, every one of your objections to MATE have been refuted.

No, you don't understand why upstream is important, even if there should
be packages for Debian, that shouldn't cause issues.

Regards,
Ralf

PS: Are you aware that there is the need for scrolling from left to
right, to read your mails without line break? If Outlook isn't to blame
for that, but you make that often mistakes, then consider that it might
be possible, that you make a mistake regarding to Mate too.


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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)




Le 12.10.2013 13:50, Ralf Mardorf a écrit :

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 06:19 -0400, Paul Cartwright wrote:

don't you think most home use single-user systems have 2 people ??


Germany has become a society of singles, solo parents and of people 
who

live in relationships, but with separated households.
snip
Even in
Europe it's likely different for meridional nations.


True. We are neighbors (in term of country, I mean) and I have some 
difficulties to imagine a family where people have each their own house. 
Thanks for info, it is a quite interesting thing to know. In France, 
when two persons form a couple, they usually start at a moment (duration 
varies of course) or another to live in the same house and start sharing 
their material possessions as well (this is only to confirm that it 
differs greatly in Europe, it seems to be the opposite as Germany and we 
share frontiers and history).


About the number of phones being greater than the number of people, I 
could have said that it could be made by the fact than people needs 
professional and private phones, but it is not true for all jobs. Could 
you explain me the use of more than 1 phone per person? (just pure 
curiosity, I try to keep my mind open, as much as possible. I feel like 
it becomes harder with the time.)



ok, then it becomes a multi-user-network, however, I suspect
that here most single-user systems do _not_ have 2 people.


It is a particular kind multi-user-network, at least how I understood 
what you described, where everyone have the same role. LAN parties (1) 
are usually made without a real DHCP server, with hard-coded IP 
addressees.
There could also be a configuration of a couple both using their own 
computer in the same room, but it seem to conflicts with previous 
statements.



1: of course, a DHCP can helps, and I have seen those made by an 
association starting to buy and configure dedicated hardware. But even 
then, the last time I went there they had not setup a DHCP. Windows is 
able to build a network without IP conflicts very well, in default 
configurations. I strongly doubt that Debian would be, but, of course, 
there is no DHCP daemon in default installations of end-user Debian 
systems. Plus, even if everyone had a DHCP, some magic would have to be 
made to make them able to discuss about which computer should take which 
address. Magic which is already present in Windows XP (not sure about 
more recent ones)


PS: I have split your comment to extract a part of it, I hope I not 
have moved things out of context.



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Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 07:04 -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
  Regarding to the OPs request I guess that there's a reason that Debian
  maintainers didn't upgrade to Cinnamon 2.0 yet. It's easy to build
  packages that run on your or my machine, but a maintainer needs to
  ensure that things don't break by nearly every combination of installed
  packages.
 
 I swear on a stack of Bibles, most people running Wheezy will have minimal 
 trouble.  Note: I didn't say no trouble, or all people.  But that is true for 
 most packages on Debian, even for those people running Stable. 

Maybe, maybe not.

 People are abandoning Gnome 3 in droves.  Most are turning to XFCE, I think 
 largely because it is already in Debian.

At least many GNOME 2 users from the Linux audio community tested many
DEs on different distros and the winners seemingly where Xfce and LXDE.


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RE: Installing Cinnamon 2.0


Le 12.10.2013 14:04, Mark Allums a écrit :

I'm not nagging about you. My concern is to nag about recommending a
third party repository, that is known to cause issues. If the OP 
does

like Cinnamon, then IMO the OP should use the official packages to
ensure that it's as stable as possible and not to switch to Mate 
from a
third party repository. If the OP needs a bug fix or a new feature 
of

Cinnamon 2.0, it might be worse the effort to build it from source.


The point of mentioning MATE was in context with adding MATE to
Debian.  Our point was, there are only minor problems with that
happening, and they should be solvable fairly easily within a short
period of time



(i.e., in the time between releases of Stable).


This problem is not MATE specific. All DEs in Debian have it: in Debian 
stable, the one that I am now running on the computer with which I now 
use to work, XFCE is only at version 4.8, but IIRC XFCE4.10 was released 
before Debian started the freeze.
MATE could go in Debian, if one of it's users accept to become it's 
maintainer. If it was so easy, then I can only guess that MATE's users 
finally do not care that much to have it into official repo, and should 
accept that other people uses that as an argument that it *might* give 
problems. Because, yes, 3rd party repo are possible, but are not 
supported by Debian.


And, things which *might* give problems which are not supported by the 
OS's maintainers made things harder for people not willing to deal with 
problems. When you start to have more than one team responsible for the 
state of a system, and when a problem appear, you usually have annoying 
games of ping-pong.


In short: if you are so sure that MATE is fine, and want to advertise 
it a lot, stop whining about Debian which refuses it, and start the way 
to integrate it into Debian. I think the dev team will be happy to have 
more manpower and provide more DE choice.



MATE
is usable NOW, and it's mainly an irrational attachment to Gnome that
prevents it, not any real problems with MATE.

People are abandoning Gnome 3 in droves.  Most are turning to XFCE, I
think largely because it is already in Debian.  If MATE were in
Debian, a large contingent of those people would use MATE if it were
available, I think, because most of them were using GNOME 2 before.


And what about those people being ancient gnome users because gnome is 
the default, and not because gnome is better (1) ? Maybe the problems 
they had with gnome encouraged them to try other DEs, like KDE, XFCE and 
LXDE present in Debian, and from that base, choosing the one which fit 
best their needs.
Perhaps they would not return to gnome2 know, because they finally 
think that it is inferior for their uses to XFCE?


Notice that, as you, I made hypothetic assertions based on the wind to 
make other's choices and opinions fitting my needs without asking them. 
Aka, that XFCE is better than gnome, which I do not truly think. They're 
simply different.


1: I was never able to understand what people can find to gnome, even 
the gnome2 DE. Matter of taste, of course. KDE was better suited for me, 
but shared a problem: too monolithic. So only XFCE and LXDE in Debian 
were able to satisfy me at start. Now, even them are not correct enough 
for me (but I still use some LXDE apps).



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Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Ralf Mardorf
ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
On Fri, 2013-10-11 at 18:43 -0400, Tom H wrote:
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Ralf Mardorf
ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 19:42:44 +0200, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:

MATE can be installed alongside other DEs on Fedora so I'm not at all
convinced by this MATE-conflicts-with-common-software meme!
Soneone said upthread that MATE uses GTK2. AFAIK it's being
transitioned to GTK3 so it'll then be less of a burden to package it
for Debian.

Correct, Mate does a transition to GTK3, but as explained before, it still
would be a PITA to make packages for official repositories, since you need
to prevent against such a conflict:

On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 19:43:43 +0200, Alex Moonshine afterclo...@gmail.com
wrote:

Sorry, but why would one need mate-file-archiver (Engrampa) and
file-roller on the same machine? The former is a fork of the latter
(and to all practical means just the same package under different
name). Same goes for nautilus/caja, gedit/pluma, etc.
I think that either you use MATE DE and Engrampa replaces file-roller
for you, or, if you want to install MATE on a system that already has
some other DE with file-roller installed, that you want to keep, you
install mate-base package, which (I believe) includes none of extra
applications (and you can go on using file-roller under MATE).

Somebody might want to test GNOME 3 and Mate on the same install. There are
workarounds. I e.g. didn't install mate-file-archiver and add a link
/usr/bin/matedialog - zenity.

One of the reasons for using a distribution is for its maintainers to
take care of such issues for their users.

Fedora must've dealt with this issue. (I assume that Mint has too!)

If Debian were to package MATE, it would do so too. If the Debian
maintainers of two packages can't agree, there's a technical committee
to propose/impose a solution.

The example that you gave was from Arch; its maintainers simply didn't
do the right thing (in this particular instance, not overall!). That
doesn't mean that MATE is broken or that it breaks other packages.

The Mate repository is definitive _not_ an official Arch repository,
IIUC it's provided by Mate upstream. However, an official Arch
repositories would follow upstream.

You're installing from an unofficial repository and complaining about
conflicts. Good one! And welcome to the world of a package maintainer
in a distribution. You had to do something similar to what a MATE
maintainer would have to do; integrate it into Debian.

For simple packages, it may just be a question of grabbing a tarball
and running make but for a DE there's slightly more work than that.

Even for distros that do not follow upstream there isn't a technical
solution for this issue that could be solved by a committee.

You really have no clue how distributions are run, do you?

Don't you think that a distribution needs a final authority to resolve
technical issues?

Who decided on the legality of Germany's participation in the EUR
bailouts? Your Bundesverfassungsgericht!

More or less in the same way that Germany has a Federal Constituional
Court, distributions have technical committees that set standards and
arbitrate conflicts. In Debian it's the CTTE, in Fedora it's FESCO,
and in Gentoo it's the Gentoo Council.

For in example, in Debian in the last 18 months, there have been at
least three issues. In short: 1) The GNOME maintainers added to a/the
GNOME metapackage a dependency on NM and the CTTE asked them revert
this change. 2) Two packages were both providing /usr/bin/node and
the CTTE came up with a solution. 3) The syslinux maintainer uploaded
a new version during the freeze and the CTTE asked him to revert the
upload.

So, if MATE were to have a conflict with GNOME and their respective
developers couldn't resolve the issue between themselves, they'd ask
the CTTE for a solution.

In Gentoo, the OpenRC maintainer petitioned the Council for booting
with a separate /usr partition to require the use of an initramfs
and the Council gave the go-ahead recently.

FESCO meets weekly. One the of the recent topics was how to migrate
the tooling from Python 2 to Python 3 over the next two releases.

Sometimes committees are useful...

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Re: Set widescreen resolution in console

2013-10-12 Thread Stephen Powell

On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 21:16:11 -0400 (EDT), Antonio Paiva wrote:

I have recently acquired an old Sony Vaio PCG-C1VN (aka, a PictureBook)
and installed Debian wheezy. The problem is that I can only get the
*console* to run at 640x480 resolution.

The C1VN has a (very wide) native resolution of 1024x480, but using only
640x480 is a serious waste of screen real estate. It works fine in X but,
the for uses I have in mind (playing some music and reading/writing text),
all I need works on the console. Moreover, using X slows down the machine
enough to have a noticeable drag (not unbearable, not very annoying). (Bear
in mind all this has is a Transmeta Crusoe @600MHz ~= Pentium II @400Mhz,
and 112MB of RAM.) I'm using kernel modesetting (KMS) with the radeon
kernel module (graphics card is an ATI Rage Mobility / Mach64). I tried
setting the mode in GRUB via the GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX option, creating my
own framebuffer mode, but either made no difference or I ended up with an
even smaller resolution?!

If you have any ideas or pointers to potential solutions, I would greatly
appreciate the help. Thank you.

Best regards,
Antonio

What driver is used in X? The MACH64 driver in X is a non-KMS-based driver.
(/var/log/Xorg.0.log should tell you what driver is being used.) There will
be a whole bunch of lines which start with that driver name. For example:

MACH64(0): VESA BIOS DETECTED

If you are using a non-KMS-based X driver, then your console should be
running in a hardware text mode, the default for which is 80 columns by
25 rows. (That's 640 pixels by 400 pixels with a character cell of 16 pixels
high by 8 pixels wide.) This can be changed by the VGA option. See my LILO
web page for more information about the VGA option

http://users.wowway.com/~zlinuxman/lilo.htm

When using the VGA option with grub2, you have to use the linux16 and initrd16
commands instead of linux and initrd, as described in this web page:

https://wiki.debian.org/GrubTransition

At least, that's what I've been told. I myself don't use grub2, I use lilo.

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: :' :
`. `'`
`-

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Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

2013-10-12 Thread Sharon Kimble

On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:52:17 -0500
Mark Allums m...@allums.com wrote:

  On Fri, 2013-10-11 at 11:34 -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
   The dialogs from Gnome 3 (zenity) serves, so mate-dialogs-gnome
   isn't needed if zenity is installed (and mate-dialogs-gnome can
   serve in place for zenity as well).
  
  Not really, you at least need to manually add a link, regarding to
  the different program names.
 
 I never did, and never had to.  It works fine.
 
 
  
  [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ ls -l /usr/bin/matedialog
  lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 Aug 18 18:06 /usr/bin/matedialog - zenity
  
  ;)
  
  Sure, if mate-file-archiver is installed, you might not need
  file-roller, but you perhaps want to be able to install a DE by it's
  meta-packages, but this doesn't work, if one of the DEs is Mate,
  because those packages cause conflicts.
 
 
 Again, never a problem for me, since v. 1.2.  
 
 I don't have any package named mate-file-archiver installed or
 available to install.  There's engrampa, which does not conflict at
 all with file-roller.

Its all moot anyway as cinnamon is, at the moment, uninstallable! It
fails here 'Failed to fetch
http://http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/g/gobby-infinote/gobby-0.5_0.4.94-5.1_i386.deb
403  Forbidden' 

You can try 'at-get --fix-missing' but it still fails.

A pity because I really want to use cinnamon again. 

Thanks
Sharon.
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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

2013-10-12 Thread Jerry Stuckle


On 10/12/2013 7:50 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 06:19 -0400, Paul Cartwright wrote:

don't you think most home use single-user systems have 2 people ??


Germany has become a society of singles, solo parents and of people who
live in relationships, but with separated households. Even food industry
makes huge profit by selling convenience foods for singles. Here you can
buy 3 packed salami slices. Perhaps we have more single persons who own
several computers, than several people sharing one computer. It seems to
differ from nation to nation. Some are single nations others are
family nations. I don't know statistics, but IIRC in Germany we've got
more smart phones, than citizens. I've got the impression that most
people in Germany have a smart phone, tablet PC, netbook or laptop and
they don't share it with somebody else. Sharing a laptop sometimes
happens, sharing smart phones, tablet PCs and netbooks not that often.
Desktop PCs are often used for a special purpose, e.g. for gaming and I
know people who play games with other people, but even if they sit in
the same room, they don't use one computer, but connect their computers
instead ... ok, then it becomes a multi-user-network, however, I suspect
that here most single-user systems do _not_ have 2 people. Even in
Europe it's likely different for meridional nations.

Regards,
Ralf




Ralf,

I've seen you give similar arguments before.  Let me give you a hint 
here.  Most of the people in the world don't care about what Germans do 
in their own homes.  Germany isn't the world; in fact, it isn't even in 
the top 10 population wise.  Your comments about what they do is 
completely immaterial.


That's not to say I don't appreciate *MOST* Germans; I've visited there 
three times and enjoyed every visit immensely.


Jerry


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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)




Le 12.10.2013 15:16, Jerry Stuckle a écrit :

On 10/12/2013 7:50 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 06:19 -0400, Paul Cartwright wrote:
don't you think most home use single-user systems have 2 people 
??


Germany has become a society of singles, solo parents and of people 
who
live in relationships, but with separated households. Even food 
industry
makes huge profit by selling convenience foods for singles. Here you 
can
buy 3 packed salami slices. Perhaps we have more single persons who 
own
several computers, than several people sharing one computer. It 
seems to

differ from nation to nation. Some are single nations others are
family nations. I don't know statistics, but IIRC in Germany we've 
got

more smart phones, than citizens. I've got the impression that most
people in Germany have a smart phone, tablet PC, netbook or laptop 
and

they don't share it with somebody else. Sharing a laptop sometimes
happens, sharing smart phones, tablet PCs and netbooks not that 
often.
Desktop PCs are often used for a special purpose, e.g. for gaming 
and I
know people who play games with other people, but even if they sit 
in
the same room, they don't use one computer, but connect their 
computers
instead ... ok, then it becomes a multi-user-network, however, I 
suspect

that here most single-user systems do _not_ have 2 people. Even in
Europe it's likely different for meridional nations.

Regards,
Ralf




Ralf,

I've seen you give similar arguments before.  Let me give you a hint
here.  Most of the people in the world don't care about what Germans
do in their own homes.  Germany isn't the world; in fact, it isn't
even in the top 10 population wise.  Your comments about what they do
is completely immaterial.

That's not to say I don't appreciate *MOST* Germans; I've visited
there three times and enjoyed every visit immensely.

Jerry


I think that the point in his message was to show that it is not 
because the usage in your, or mine, or his, country is something that 
this use is the usage of the majority.

Of course, I may be wrong.


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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

2013-10-12 Thread Joe

On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 14:28:10 +0200
berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:


 1: of course, a DHCP can helps, and I have seen those made by an 
 association starting to buy and configure dedicated hardware. But
 even then, the last time I went there they had not setup a DHCP.
 Windows is able to build a network without IP conflicts very well, in
 default configurations. I strongly doubt that Debian would be, but,
 of course, there is no DHCP daemon in default installations of
 end-user Debian systems. Plus, even if everyone had a DHCP, some
 magic would have to be made to make them able to discuss about which
 computer should take which address. Magic which is already present in
 Windows XP (not sure about more recent ones)
 

I think the vast majority of computers are used with an Internet
connection, which these days means a router rather than a modem. Routers
have DHCP servers enabled by default, and Windows expects DHCP use by
default, so it should just all work, even over wireless.

In the absence of DHCP or a manually-configured address, Windows will
use random link-local (169.254.x.y) addresses, which with 2^16 addresses
available will normally work fine in a group. Unfortunately, if some
minor issue prevents Windows machines in an established network seeing
DHCP during boot, they will not re-try their last address, but will
pick one of these addresses, which guarantees they won't connect with
anything else in the network.

I'm not sure about Debian these days: the last time I installed Debian
(etch, I think) in default (not expert) mode without a DHCP server
present, the result was that no networking software was installed at
all. Reporting this as a bug, I was as usual told that it was a
feature. What was really annoying was that it was a netinstall...

Certainly if there is a DHCP server running on installation, Debian Just
Works.

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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

2013-10-12 Thread Jerry Stuckle


On 10/12/2013 9:20 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:



Le 12.10.2013 15:16, Jerry Stuckle a écrit :

On 10/12/2013 7:50 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 06:19 -0400, Paul Cartwright wrote:

don't you think most home use single-user systems have 2 people ??


Germany has become a society of singles, solo parents and of people who
live in relationships, but with separated households. Even food industry
makes huge profit by selling convenience foods for singles. Here you can
buy 3 packed salami slices. Perhaps we have more single persons who own
several computers, than several people sharing one computer. It seems to
differ from nation to nation. Some are single nations others are
family nations. I don't know statistics, but IIRC in Germany we've got
more smart phones, than citizens. I've got the impression that most
people in Germany have a smart phone, tablet PC, netbook or laptop and
they don't share it with somebody else. Sharing a laptop sometimes
happens, sharing smart phones, tablet PCs and netbooks not that often.
Desktop PCs are often used for a special purpose, e.g. for gaming and I
know people who play games with other people, but even if they sit in
the same room, they don't use one computer, but connect their computers
instead ... ok, then it becomes a multi-user-network, however, I suspect
that here most single-user systems do _not_ have 2 people. Even in
Europe it's likely different for meridional nations.

Regards,
Ralf




Ralf,

I've seen you give similar arguments before.  Let me give you a hint
here.  Most of the people in the world don't care about what Germans
do in their own homes.  Germany isn't the world; in fact, it isn't
even in the top 10 population wise.  Your comments about what they do
is completely immaterial.

That's not to say I don't appreciate *MOST* Germans; I've visited
there three times and enjoyed every visit immensely.

Jerry


I think that the point in his message was to show that it is not because
the usage in your, or mine, or his, country is something that this use
is the usage of the majority.
Of course, I may be wrong.




Which has exactly what to do with the definition of the term sysadmin?

Jerry


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RE: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

  The point of mentioning MATE was in context with adding MATE to
  Debian.  Our point was, there are only minor problems with that
  happening, and they should be solvable fairly easily within a short
  period of time
 
  (i.e., in the time between releases of Stable).
 
 This problem is not MATE specific. All DEs in Debian have it: 

That was my point. 



 MATE could go in Debian, if one of it's users accept to become it's
 maintainer. If it was so easy, then I can only guess that MATE's users
 finally do not care that much to have it into official repo, and should
 accept that other people uses that as an argument that it *might* give
 problems. Because, yes, 3rd party repo are possible, but are not
 supported by Debian.

I realize this; it goes without saying.  If I was adequately competent, I'd 
volunteer, myself.


 And, things which *might* give problems which are not supported by the
 OS's maintainers made things harder for people not willing to deal with
 problems. When you start to have more than one team responsible for the
 state of a system, and when a problem appear, you usually have annoying
 games of ping-pong.

Not sure that's relevant.


 In short: if you are so sure that MATE is fine, and want to advertise
 it a lot, stop whining about Debian which refuses it, and start the way
 to integrate it into Debian. I think the dev team will be happy to have
 more manpower and provide more DE choice.

Yes, and some of the MATE devs have already shown a willingness to serve as 
maintainer.  Not whining so much as making sure some of the right people are 
aware that not everyone is on board with the decision to ignore it.  They have 
more than a few DEs and window managers galore.  Why object to one more, if it 
works well and serves people's needs? Religion.  

I might could change the typos in docs to become different typos in different 
places.  I can't develop for MATE, it's not part of my skill set. I will 
encourage other people to get involved, that much, I can do.


  People are abandoning Gnome 3 in droves.  Most are turning to XFCE, I
  think largely because it is already in Debian.  If MATE were in
  Debian, a large contingent of those people would use MATE if it were
  available, I think, because most of them were using GNOME 2 before.
 
 And what about those people being ancient gnome users because gnome is
 the default, and not because gnome is better (1) ? Maybe the problems
 they had with gnome encouraged them to try other DEs, like KDE, XFCE and
 LXDE present in Debian, and from that base, choosing the one which fit
 best their needs.
 Perhaps they would not return to gnome2 know, because they finally

That's possible. The point is:

1. Gnome 3 isn't desirable to many,
2. Many have stated a preference for Gnome 2, and all aren't completely 
satisfied with the alternatives offered.  XFCE is regarded by many as the best 
of a bad lot. This wasn't stated implicitly; I assumed it was implied by 
context, but that was a mistake. 
3. MATE is rather like GNOME 2.


 think that it is inferior for their uses to XFCE?

That's possible.  I never said all XFCE users wanted MATE.

 
 Notice that, as you, I made hypothetic assertions based on the wind to
 make other's choices and opinions fitting my needs without asking them.
 Aka, that XFCE is better than gnome, which I do not truly think. They're
 simply different.

No disagreement

My main goal is to get the point across that, like others have said, the 
prejudice against MATE is strong.  I believe it's mainly religious, and that 
the practical reasons against it are all solvable.


 1: I was never able to understand what people can find to gnome, even
 the gnome2 DE. Matter of taste, of course. KDE was better suited for me,
 but shared a problem: too monolithic. So only XFCE and LXDE in Debian
 were able to satisfy me at start. Now, even them are not correct enough
 for me (but I still use some LXDE apps).

I loved KDE 3.  Like GNOME, KDE devs drank the Kool-Aid, and had to mess with 
the basic premise of their DE.  Unlike Gnome 3, KDE 4 is still useable and 
largely sane.  But I don't love it.  It's too big, and it's just not something 
that appeals to me.  

Mark
 


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Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

2013-10-12 Thread Lisi Reisz

On Saturday 12 October 2013 14:42:31 Mark Allums wrote:
 I loved KDE 3.

Have you looked at Trinity? It is a fork of KDE3 as MATE is a fork of 
Gnome2.  
http://www.trinitydesktop.org/

Lisi


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RE: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

 I don't nag about endless lines,

 It's not the end of the world, but unfavourable when you argument about
 not running into issues with your computer, while causing issues for the
 list, when you're using Windows, 

 IOW you might not experience issues with your computer, with Mate and/or
 Windows, but you at least cause issues when using Windows. 


This has nothing to do with Windows.  You need to set your MUA to use word 
wrap.  Stop bitching about Windows and fix your MUA.


I'm not nagging about you. My concern is to nag about recommending a
 third party repository, that is known to cause issues. If the OP does
 like Cinnamon, then IMO the OP should use the official packages to
 ensure that it's as stable as possible and not to switch to Mate from a
 third party repository. If the OP needs a bug fix or a new feature of
 Cinnamon 2.0, it might be worse the effort to build it from source.

The repository is official, as it's run by people affiliated with MATE, if I 
understand correctly. It's just not *Debian's* official repository.  The 
repository maintainers, along with MATE devs, have fixed up their packages to 
work with Debian without conflicts.  The problems you speak of DO NOT CAUSE 
ISSUES when you use the correct .deb on a Debian system.  This is about 
allowing MATE into Debian, not allowing it into Arch, or Gentoo, or Slackware.  
It also works in Fedora.  If these two can solve it, the others can, too.  
Maybe it's not ready for Arch.  That's not upstream's problem!  It's Arch's 
problem!  I'm sure MATE will be happy to work with Arch. But stop using Arch as 
an example!

Sheesh!





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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 14:28 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
 [snip]

Time to switch to the OT list or to reply off-list ;).


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RE: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

 On Saturday 12 October 2013 14:42:31 Mark Allums wrote:
  I loved KDE 3.
 
 Have you looked at Trinity? It is a fork of KDE3 as MATE is a fork of
 Gnome2.
 http://www.trinitydesktop.org/
 
 Lisi

Thanks.  I will check it out.  

Mark




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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

2013-10-12 Thread John Hasler

Joe writes:
 I think the vast majority of computers are used with an Internet
 connection, which these days means a router rather than a modem.

1) A dialup connection to the Internet is still an Internet connection.
2) A DSL or cable modem is still a modem (MOdulator/DEModulator), though
most include routers and other useless stuff.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA


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realtek r8189 driver problem on 64 bit kernel

2013-10-12 Thread Wackojacko

I have recently updated my motherboard which has resulted in me having 
an updated realtek r8168 chip (rev 6 instead of rev 3), unfortunately 
the new chip fails to get a connection via dhcp, and setting a static 
address results in 100% packet loss.


I am currently running sid amd64 and have tried various things including 
downloading the latest driver from Realtek, experimental kernel and 
numerous live CD's.  What I discovered by chance was that the NIC worked 
when using debian 32 bit distribution (confirmed with debian live cd) 
which is now installed to keep me on the go :). Interestingly it works 
whether the firmware is installed or not on 32 bit.


I have compared the output of dmesg, lspci, lshw, ethtool from both 
distributions and the only difference I found relating to the driver was


r8169 :03:00.0: can't disable ASPM; OS doesn't have ASPM control

and a different address and IRQ for the NIC.

so I tried booting with pcie_aspm=off (it was disabled anyway) and the 
warning disappeared but the NIC still didn't work.


This is the adapter on a Gigabyte 970a-dsp3 motherboard

03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. 
RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 06)


and dmesg shows on amd64

r8169 Gigabit Ethernet driver 2.3LK-NAPI loaded
r8169 :03:00.0: can't disable ASPM; OS doesn't have ASPM control
r8169 :03:00.0: irq 72 for MSI/MSI-X
r8169 :03:00.0 eth0: RTL8168evl/8111evl at 0xc9616000, (MAC 
ADDRESS), XID 0c900880 IRQ 72
r8169 :03:00.0 eth0: jumbo features [frames: 9200 bytes, tx 
checksumming: ko]

r8169 :03:00.0: firmware: agent loaded rtl_nic/rtl8168e-3.fw into memory

on 32bit

r8169 Gigabit Ethernet driver 2.3LK-NAPI loaded
r8169 :03:00.0: irq 73 for MSI/MSI-X
r8169 :03:00.0 eth0: RTL8168evl/8111evl at 0xf8274000,(MAC ADDRESS), 
XID 0c900880 IRQ 73
r8169 :03:00.0 eth0: jumbo features [frames: 9200 bytes, tx 
checksumming: ko]

r8169 :03:00.0: firmware: agent loaded rtl_nic/rtl8168e-3.fw into memory

As you can see the driver loads and eth0 comes up but no ip address from 
the router.


Any help would be aprreciated

Thanks

Wackojacko





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Re: Unable to locate mail spool file.-SOLVED

2013-10-12 Thread Paul Cartwright

On 10/12/2013 10:27 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote:
 ok, I have exim4 setup as internet site, using Maildir. my
 /home/user/Maildir is there. I sent a test message and a new message
 shows up in /home/user/Maildir/new .
 in Thunderbird when I try to check mail in that account is says Unable
 to locate Mail spool file. It is a UNIX Movemail account. What am I
 doing wrong?

 I just want to get my local linux account email in IMAP in Thunderbird..
 /var/log/exim4/mainlog shows Completed, so it is doing it's job, so I
 guess I am missing something in the Thunderbird setup? Thunderbird 24.0

never mind.. I was trying too hard. I reconfigured exim to MBOX, left
the mail in /var/mail and restarted thunderbird and it got my mail..


-- 
Paul Cartwright
Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587


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Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 14:05 +0100, Sharon Kimble wrote:
 http://http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/g/gobby-infinote/gobby-0.5_0.4.94-5.1_i386.deb
 403  Forbidden'

Try
http://debian.netcologne.de/debian/pool/main/g/gobby-infinote/gobby-0.5_0.4.94-5.1_i386.deb
 instead [1].

Regards,
Ralf

PS: [2]

[1]
$ wget
http://http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/g/gobby-infinote/gobby-0.5_0.4.94-5.1_i386.deb
--2013-10-12 16:34:59--
http://http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/g/gobby-infinote/gobby-0.5_0.4.94-5.1_i386.deb
Resolving http.debian.net (http.debian.net)... 46.4.205.44,
2a01:4f8:131:152c::42
Connecting to http.debian.net (http.debian.net)|46.4.205.44|:80...
connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 301 Moved Permanently
Location:
http://debian.netcologne.de/debian/pool/main/g/gobby-infinote/gobby-0.5_0.4.94-5.1_i386.deb
 [following]
--2013-10-12 16:34:59--
http://debian.netcologne.de/debian/pool/main/g/gobby-infinote/gobby-0.5_0.4.94-5.1_i386.deb
Resolving debian.netcologne.de (debian.netcologne.de)... 194.8.197.22,
2001:4dd0:1234:1::deb
Connecting to debian.netcologne.de (debian.netcologne.de)|
194.8.197.22|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 523694 (511K) [application/x-debian-package]
Saving to: ‘gobby-0.5_0.4.94-5.1_i386.deb’

100%[===] 
523,694  593KB/s   in 0.9s   

2013-10-12 16:35:00 (593 KB/s) - ‘gobby-0.5_0.4.94-5.1_i386.deb’ saved
[523694/523694]

[2]
On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 08:51 -0400, Tom H wrote:
 You're installing from an unofficial repository and complaining about
 conflicts. Good one! [snip]
 You really have no clue how distributions are run, do you? [snip]

You misunderstand, this is my argumentation. Maintaining Mate packages
for official repositories is a hard job, regarding to issues caused by
upstream. Because I know how some distributions work, there is my
argumentation about issues with upstream that can't be solved by a
council.

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 14:47 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 12.10.2013 14:04, Mark Allums a écrit :
  The point of mentioning MATE was in context with adding MATE to
  Debian.  Our point was, there are only minor problems with that
  happening, and they should be solvable fairly easily within a short
  period of time
 
  (i.e., in the time between releases of Stable).
 
 If it was so easy, then I can only guess that MATE's users 
 finally do not care that much to have it into official repo, and
 should accept that other people uses that as an argument that it 
 *might* give problems. Because, yes, 3rd party repo are possible, but
 are not supported by Debian

or any other major distro, +1.

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 08:42 -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
 I can't develop for MATE, it's not part of my skill set. I will
 encourage other people to get involved, that much, I can do.

You can learn and become a package maintainer, you don't need to become
a Mate developer.


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RE: Installing Cinnamon 2.0




Le 12.10.2013 15:42, Mark Allums a écrit :

I might could change the typos in docs to become different typos in
different places.  I can't develop for MATE, it's not part of my 
skill

set. I will encourage other people to get involved, that much, I can
do.


Package maintenance is not really a programming task AFAIK. It, of 
course, need you to be able to compile stuff, but not to write source 
code :)


 People are abandoning Gnome 3 in droves.  Most are turning to 
XFCE, I

 think largely because it is already in Debian.  If MATE were in
 Debian, a large contingent of those people would use MATE if it 
were
 available, I think, because most of them were using GNOME 2 
before.


And what about those people being ancient gnome users because gnome 
is
the default, and not because gnome is better (1) ? Maybe the 
problems
they had with gnome encouraged them to try other DEs, like KDE, XFCE 
and
LXDE present in Debian, and from that base, choosing the one which 
fit

best their needs.
Perhaps they would not return to gnome2 know, because they finally


That's possible. The point is:

1. Gnome 3 isn't desirable to many,


Yes, someone involved in computer news can not ignore that, even if he 
does not use a DE, same for windows 8 :)
In fact, I like this, because it always make me laugh. By trying to run 
on the last fashion (not sure about the wording) things are just 
collapsing. I am really happy to have had the curiosity to search 
alternatives, instead of having to be stuck with disgusting stuff.



2. Many have stated a preference for Gnome 2, and all aren't
completely satisfied with the alternatives offered.  XFCE is regarded
by many as the best of a bad lot. This wasn't stated implicitly; I
assumed it was implied by context, but that was a mistake.


But MATE is a part of that bad lot, is not it?

And honestly, of course you will never find gnome in XFCE. It's why 
XFCE is XFCE, not a 3rd clone of gnome. (or a 1st considering it's age)
Goals are not the same, they are to keep something as lightweight as 
possible, but deeply integrated with other features of the desktop, 
unlike LXDE which wants to have only independent softwares, which can 
interact easily between them, but does not have a dependency. Different 
philosophy, where the gnome one seems to be to always provide everything 
possible, but only if it follows dev's opinion of what is nice.
But my point was, that maybe so many of those people would have be 
happy with XFCE's philosophy at start? People on windows stayed with XP 
for a long time after all, with it's poor but efficient GUI. And 
they now refuse to move to w8. (I know, it's not windows the subject 
here, but the analogy is not unrelated I think)


And those dev, I can not blame them. It's an open source software, 
where people makes stuff for themselves (not paid, AFAIK), which can 
possibly be useful for other people. That's the danger of things built 
by volunteers, and that's why it's so sad that so many people forgot the 
UNIX philosophy. Ancient gnome's users now have to maintain multiple 
forks for all the software suite.



That's possible.  I never said all XFCE users wanted MATE.


Good to read it explicitly.



My main goal is to get the point across that, like others have said,
the prejudice against MATE is strong.  I believe it's mainly
religious, and that the practical reasons against it are all 
solvable.


I do not feel as if I were religious. If DEs were a religion, then I 
would be an apostate. (heh... sounds like a nice DE's name if someday I 
wanted to start my own)
My interventions are more to say that, in short, I do not think that 
people should advertise that much about Mate on debian's user-list while 
those issues are not fixed:
_ absent from official repos (with all the problems it *might* provide, 
considering installations which *could* be more complex than it seems)
_ OP did not asked about which DE to use (people which want to use 
cinnamon often comes from gnome, and so must know about mate)


I hope I made my point more clear.


It's too big,
and it's just not something that appeals to me.


Agree. I think the same about mainstream DEs, in general. And I do not 
consider XFCE as a mainstream DE, even if it seem it could become thanks 
to gnome3. If a different paradigm were able to enter the mainstream 
DEs, it would really be a nice thing for DE users.



berenger.mo...@neutralite.org, debian-user@lists.debian.org

You should really fix your mail configuration :) (I do not really mind, 
but that could annoy other people)



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Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 14:05 +0100, Sharon Kimble wrote:
 http://http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/g/gobby-infinote/gobby-0.5_0.4.94-5.1_i386.deb
 403  Forbidden'

Try
http://debian.netcologne.de/debian/pool/main/g/gobby-infinote/gobby-0.5_0.4.94-5.1_i386.deb
 instead [1].

Regards,
Ralf

PS: [2]

[1]
$ wget
http://http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/g/gobby-infinote/gobby-0.5_0.4.94-5.1_i386.deb
--2013-10-12 16:34:59--
http://http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/g/gobby-infinote/gobby-0.5_0.4.94-5.1_i386.deb
Resolving http.debian.net (http.debian.net)... 46.4.205.44,
2a01:4f8:131:152c::42
Connecting to http.debian.net (http.debian.net)|46.4.205.44|:80...
connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 301 Moved Permanently
Location:
http://debian.netcologne.de/debian/pool/main/g/gobby-infinote/gobby-0.5_0.4.94-5.1_i386.deb
 [following]
--2013-10-12 16:34:59--
http://debian.netcologne.de/debian/pool/main/g/gobby-infinote/gobby-0.5_0.4.94-5.1_i386.deb
Resolving debian.netcologne.de (debian.netcologne.de)... 194.8.197.22,
2001:4dd0:1234:1::deb
Connecting to debian.netcologne.de (debian.netcologne.de)|
194.8.197.22|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 523694 (511K) [application/x-debian-package]
Saving to: ‘gobby-0.5_0.4.94-5.1_i386.deb’

100%[===] 
523,694  593KB/s   in 0.9s   

2013-10-12 16:35:00 (593 KB/s) - ‘gobby-0.5_0.4.94-5.1_i386.deb’ saved
[523694/523694]

[2]
On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 08:51 -0400, Tom H wrote:
 You're installing from an unofficial repository and complaining about
 conflicts. Good one! [snip]
 You really have no clue how distributions are run, do you? [snip]

You misunderstand, this is my argumentation. Maintaining Mate packages
for official repositories is a hard job, regarding to issues caused by
upstream. Because I know how some distributions work, there is my
argumentation about issues with upstream that can't be solved by a
council.

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 14:47 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 12.10.2013 14:04, Mark Allums a écrit :
  The point of mentioning MATE was in context with adding MATE to
  Debian.  Our point was, there are only minor problems with that
  happening, and they should be solvable fairly easily within a short
  period of time
 
  (i.e., in the time between releases of Stable).
 
 If it was so easy, then I can only guess that MATE's users 
 finally do not care that much to have it into official repo, and
 should accept that other people uses that as an argument that it 
 *might* give problems. Because, yes, 3rd party repo are possible, but
 are not supported by Debian

or any other major distro, +1.

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 08:42 -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
 I can't develop for MATE, it's not part of my skill set. I will
 encourage other people to get involved, that much, I can do.

You can learn and become a package maintainer, you don't need to become
a Mate developer.


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Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 09:08 -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
  I don't nag about endless lines,
 
  It's not the end of the world, but unfavourable when you argument about
  not running into issues with your computer, while causing issues for the
  list, when you're using Windows, 
 
  IOW you might not experience issues with your computer, with Mate and/or
  Windows, but you at least cause issues when using Windows. 
 
 
 This has nothing to do with Windows.  You need to set your MUA to use word 
 wrap.  Stop bitching about Windows and fix your MUA.
 
 
 I'm not nagging about you. My concern is to nag about recommending a
  third party repository, that is known to cause issues. If the OP does
  like Cinnamon, then IMO the OP should use the official packages to
  ensure that it's as stable as possible and not to switch to Mate from a
  third party repository. If the OP needs a bug fix or a new feature of
  Cinnamon 2.0, it might be worse the effort to build it from source.
 
 The repository is official, as it's run by people affiliated with MATE, if 
 I understand correctly. It's just not *Debian's* official repository.  The 
 repository maintainers, along with MATE devs, have fixed up their packages to 
 work with Debian without conflicts.  The problems you speak of DO NOT CAUSE 
 ISSUES when you use the correct .deb on a Debian system.  This is about 
 allowing MATE into Debian, not allowing it into Arch, or Gentoo, or 
 Slackware.  It also works in Fedora.  If these two can solve it, the others 
 can, too.  Maybe it's not ready for Arch.  That's not upstream's problem!  
 It's Arch's problem!  I'm sure MATE will be happy to work with Arch. But stop 
 using Arch as an example!
 
 Sheesh!

Official third party repository :D.
Your MUA is broken, not my MUA!



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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 09:37 -0400, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
 On 10/12/2013 9:20 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
  I think that the point in his message was to show that it is not because
  the usage in your, or mine, or his, country is something that this use
  is the usage of the majority.
  Of course, I may be wrong.
 
 
 
 Which has exactly what to do with the definition of the term sysadmin?

It is the answer to your question don't you think most home use
single-user systems have 2 people ??

How do you know? I don't know and _here_ (I'm living here, not
elsewhere), it seems to be that one user more often has more than one
computer, than two users sharing one computer.

Anyway, I'm really interested in the DE discussion, but not in the
definition of a word discussion.


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Re: realtek r8189 driver problem on 64 bit kernel

2013-10-12 Thread Wackojacko



Sending tot the list sorry gary



On 12/10/13 15:32, Gary Dale wrote:


I had a similar problem but fixed it by enabling IOEMU in the BIOS of
my Gigabyte 970A-D3P.


I assume you mean IOMMU, I had already enabled this a few minutes before
you suggested it but it didn't appear to work at first. However, I have
just rebooted again and the network has come up so thankyou.

Enabling this has given me a new problem in that my usb 3.0 now doesn't
work :-( I get lots of messages like this in dmesg

AMD-Vi: Event logged [IO_PAGE_FAULT device=02:00.0 domain=0x0014
address=0xbea01740 flags=0x0010]

and lspci shows

02:00.0 USB controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. Device 3483 (rev 01)

I prefer network and no usb 3.0 but I'd like both so I'll look in the
BIOS again to see if there's anything I can change to see if it helps.

Thanks

Wackojacko




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Re: linux-image-3.10-3-amd64 unbootable: /dev/disk/by-uuid not created

2013-10-12 Thread Hugo Vanwoerkom


Jesse Molina wrote:


Hi

I have a Debian unstable host which successfully boots from the 
linux-image-3.10-1-amd64 kernel package.  However, I recently installed 
the linux-image-3.10-3-amd64 kernel package, and it is unbootable.


When I boot from the linux-image-3.10-3-amd64 package kernel, the boot 
fails and drops me into the initramfs busybox.  The messge Gave up 
waiting for the root device. appears, along with ALERT! 
/dev/disk/by-uuid/bla-bla-bla-my-id-here does not exist..


The problem appears to be that udev is not creating /dev/disk/by-uuid/* 
and similar objects.  The only directory being created in /dev/disk is 
by-id.  Note that the mdadm arrays are being successfully assembled 
and I can see them if I cat /proc/mdstat.


the root= argument in grub is a UUID of a mdadm RAID1 array.  This 
host's boot part is a RAID1, and the root part is a RAID5.  This is 
standard PC desktop hardware with four disk drives upon which the md 
RAIDs are built.


The host has been dist-upgraded as of this time.

Advice appreciated.  Otherwise, I'll file a bug on it.


try 'rootdelay=5' (w/o quotes) as bootparam.

Hugo


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GNOME 3.10 Support

2013-10-12 Thread MUH Jeeshan


Hi,
I think Debian Sid is using GNOME 3.8 currently. Now how can I install 
GNOME 3.10 in Debian with it's core apps e.g. music, photos, maps?



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Re: realtek r8189 driver problem on 64 bit kernel

2013-10-12 Thread Wackojacko


On 12/10/13 16:37, Gary Dale wrote:

On 12/10/13 11:03 AM, Wackojacko wrote:

On 12/10/13 15:32, Gary Dale wrote:


I had a similar problem but fixed it by enabling IOEMU in the BIOS of
my Gigabyte 970A-D3P.


I assume you mean IOMMU, I had already enabled this a few minutes before
you suggested it but it didn't appear to work at first. However, I have
just rebooted again and the network has come up so thankyou.

Enabling this has given me a new problem in that my usb 3.0 now doesn't
work :-( I get lots of messages like this in dmesg

AMD-Vi: Event logged [IO_PAGE_FAULT device=02:00.0 domain=0x0014
address=0xbea01740 flags=0x0010]

and lspci shows

02:00.0 USB controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. Device 3483 (rev 01)

I prefer network and no usb 3.0 but I'd like both so I'll look in the
BIOS again to see if there's anything I can change to see if it helps.

Thanks

Wackojacko



I'm having exactly the same problem. Let me know if you get it to work.


Ah ok, will do but it looks like a kernel bug in amd64 because these 
problems don't exist with 32 bit.



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Unable to locate mail spool file.

2013-10-12 Thread Paul Cartwright

ok, I have exim4 setup as internet site, using Maildir. my
/home/user/Maildir is there. I sent a test message and a new message
shows up in /home/user/Maildir/new .
in Thunderbird when I try to check mail in that account is says Unable
to locate Mail spool file. It is a UNIX Movemail account. What am I
doing wrong?

I just want to get my local linux account email in IMAP in Thunderbird..
/var/log/exim4/mainlog shows Completed, so it is doing it's job, so I
guess I am missing something in the Thunderbird setup? Thunderbird 24.0

-- 
Paul Cartwright


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Re: realtek r8189 driver problem on 64 bit kernel

2013-10-12 Thread Gary Dale


On 12/10/13 11:03 AM, Wackojacko wrote:

On 12/10/13 15:32, Gary Dale wrote:


I had a similar problem but fixed it by enabling IOEMU in the BIOS of
my Gigabyte 970A-D3P.


I assume you mean IOMMU, I had already enabled this a few minutes before
you suggested it but it didn't appear to work at first. However, I have
just rebooted again and the network has come up so thankyou.

Enabling this has given me a new problem in that my usb 3.0 now doesn't
work :-( I get lots of messages like this in dmesg

AMD-Vi: Event logged [IO_PAGE_FAULT device=02:00.0 domain=0x0014
address=0xbea01740 flags=0x0010]

and lspci shows

02:00.0 USB controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. Device 3483 (rev 01)

I prefer network and no usb 3.0 but I'd like both so I'll look in the
BIOS again to see if there's anything I can change to see if it helps.

Thanks

Wackojacko



I'm having exactly the same problem. Let me know if you get it to work.


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Re: apt-get vs. aptitude

2013-10-12 Thread msl09

Oh I have fond memories of aptitude breaking my system. Once it
suggested me to remove most of my system, including apt, I thought it
was going to upgrade it so I confirmed it. I had to reinstall apt from
the debian packages website.

In this new installation I gave it another try but when it started
suggesting very weird plans(like remove all gnome packages) I happily
went back to apt and never looked back.

On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 2:45 AM, Dmitrii Kashin free...@freehck.ru wrote:
Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com writes:

Have you filed a bug report about aptitude breaking apt (whatever
that means!) or is this just FUD?

No, I have not. Because it is normal aptitude's behaviour.

It was a cognitive case...

You start out by replying that this isn't a bug but normal for
aptitude!

Yes, it's normal for aptitude, but isn't it ugliness?

And I agree.

Aptitude gives you the option to to install a piece of software
without a hard dependency (and then dealing with the consequences) or
of overriding a previous choice of software installation.

It gives you a choice! It doesn't install packages that breaks your
installation or conflicts with your requirements without your consent!

Great. It gives me a choice to break my system, and the only thing that
separates me from it is the letter 'y'. Thanks. I do not like this
choice. I would prefer not to have it.

Not only is aptitude not broken but it doesn't break apt since you can
still use apt-get/aptitude to install other packages.

Did you read carefully. or your aim is to start a new holywar?

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Re: realtek r8189 driver problem on 64 bit kernel

2013-10-12 Thread Gary Dale


On 12/10/13 10:25 AM, Wackojacko wrote:

I have recently updated my motherboard which has resulted in me having
an updated realtek r8168 chip (rev 6 instead of rev 3), unfortunately
the new chip fails to get a connection via dhcp, and setting a static
address results in 100% packet loss.

I am currently running sid amd64 and have tried various things including
downloading the latest driver from Realtek, experimental kernel and
numerous live CD's. What I discovered by chance was that the NIC worked
when using debian 32 bit distribution (confirmed with debian live cd)
which is now installed to keep me on the go :). Interestingly it works
whether the firmware is installed or not on 32 bit.

I have compared the output of dmesg, lspci, lshw, ethtool from both
distributions and the only difference I found relating to the driver was

r8169 :03:00.0: can't disable ASPM; OS doesn't have ASPM control

and a different address and IRQ for the NIC.

so I tried booting with pcie_aspm=off (it was disabled anyway) and the
warning disappeared but the NIC still didn't work.

This is the adapter on a Gigabyte 970a-dsp3 motherboard

03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.
RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 06)

and dmesg shows on amd64

r8169 Gigabit Ethernet driver 2.3LK-NAPI loaded
r8169 :03:00.0: can't disable ASPM; OS doesn't have ASPM control
r8169 :03:00.0: irq 72 for MSI/MSI-X
r8169 :03:00.0 eth0: RTL8168evl/8111evl at 0xc9616000, (MAC
ADDRESS), XID 0c900880 IRQ 72
r8169 :03:00.0 eth0: jumbo features [frames: 9200 bytes, tx
checksumming: ko]
r8169 :03:00.0: firmware: agent loaded rtl_nic/rtl8168e-3.fw into
memory

on 32bit

r8169 Gigabit Ethernet driver 2.3LK-NAPI loaded
r8169 :03:00.0: irq 73 for MSI/MSI-X
r8169 :03:00.0 eth0: RTL8168evl/8111evl at 0xf8274000,(MAC ADDRESS),
XID 0c900880 IRQ 73
r8169 :03:00.0 eth0: jumbo features [frames: 9200 bytes, tx
checksumming: ko]
r8169 :03:00.0: firmware: agent loaded rtl_nic/rtl8168e-3.fw into
memory

As you can see the driver loads and eth0 comes up but no ip address from
the router.

Any help would be aprreciated

Thanks

Wackojacko


I had a similar problem but fixed it by enabling IOEMU in the BIOS of my 
Gigabyte 970A-D3P.



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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

2013-10-12 Thread Rhiamom


On Oct 12, 2013, at 10:15 AM, John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com wrote:
 
 Joe writes:
 I think the vast majority of computers are used with an Internet
 connection, which these days means a router rather than a modem.
 
 1) A dialup connection to the Internet is still an Internet connection.
 2) A DSL or cable modem is still a modem (MOdulator/DEModulator), though
 most include routers and other useless stuff.

I thought that cablemodems were technically bridges, not modems at all, with or 
without the router capability most now have. But then, I remember when VGA 
meant varied graphics array, not video graphics adapter, and I prefer to think 
it still does.


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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

2013-10-12 Thread John Hasler

Rhiamom writes:
 I thought that cablemodems were technically bridges, not modems at
 all, with or without the router capability most now have.

The data is transmitted modulated onto a carrier (the modulation method
is quite complex) not as baseband.  Thus the device is a modem.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA


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Re: GNOME 3.10 Support

2013-10-12 Thread Pascal Obry

Le 12 oct. 2013 17:30, MUH Jeeshan tranjees...@inventati.org a écrit :

 Hi,
 I think Debian Sid is using GNOME 3.8 currently. Now how can I install
GNOME 3.10 in Debian with it's core apps e.g. music, photos, maps?


It is using gtk 3.8 but gnome shell 3.4.

Gnome shell 3.8 is in experimental.

Long way for full gnome 3.10 i would say!

Pascal.

Re: Unable to locate mail spool file.

2013-10-12 Thread Stan Hoeppner

On 10/12/2013 9:27 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote:
 ok, I have exim4 setup as internet site, using Maildir. my
 /home/user/Maildir is there. I sent a test message and a new message
 shows up in /home/user/Maildir/new .
 in Thunderbird when I try to check mail in that account is says Unable
 to locate Mail spool file. It is a UNIX Movemail account. What am I
 doing wrong?
 
 I just want to get my local linux account email in IMAP in Thunderbird..
 /var/log/exim4/mainlog shows Completed, so it is doing it's job, so I
 guess I am missing something in the Thunderbird setup? Thunderbird 24.0

No, what you're missing in an IMAP server.

-- 
Stan



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Re: linux-image-3.10-3-amd64 unbootable: /dev/disk/by-uuid not created

2013-10-12 Thread Jesse Molina



That's a good idea, but this system already had a rootdelay=5 
configured, and I even raised it to 15 during testing with no effect 
upon the situation.


I have had problems on a different host using md RAID5 as it's boot 
array, which requires a rootdelay on the 3.8 and 3.10 kernels. There are 
some bugs out there with my name on them regarding this.


Reference bugs:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=718533
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=678696

And this is the long-term solution which needs to be implemented:
https://wiki.debian.org/InitramfsEventBased

Anyway, the above doesn't seem to be the problem.

As I said before, the md RAIDs are being assembled.  udev, or something 
else, is failing to properly create the device nodes.




On 10/12/13 8:22 AM, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:

Jesse Molina wrote:


Hi

I have a Debian unstable host which successfully boots from the 
linux-image-3.10-1-amd64 kernel package.  However, I recently 
installed the linux-image-3.10-3-amd64 kernel package, and it is 
unbootable.


When I boot from the linux-image-3.10-3-amd64 package kernel, the 
boot fails and drops me into the initramfs busybox.  The messge Gave 
up waiting for the root device. appears, along with ALERT! 
/dev/disk/by-uuid/bla-bla-bla-my-id-here does not exist..


The problem appears to be that udev is not creating 
/dev/disk/by-uuid/* and similar objects.  The only directory being 
created in /dev/disk is by-id.  Note that the mdadm arrays are 
being successfully assembled and I can see them if I cat /proc/mdstat.


the root= argument in grub is a UUID of a mdadm RAID1 array. This 
host's boot part is a RAID1, and the root part is a RAID5. This is 
standard PC desktop hardware with four disk drives upon which the md 
RAIDs are built.


The host has been dist-upgraded as of this time.

Advice appreciated.  Otherwise, I'll file a bug on it.


try 'rootdelay=5' (w/o quotes) as bootparam.

Hugo





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Re: Consistent mouse and scrollbar behavior in X?

2013-10-12 Thread Clive Standbridge

Hello Brian,

Clicking on scrollbars does different things with different applications. In
Emacs, the following used to be standard:

- left click: one screenful down
- right click: one screenful up
- middle click: jump to where you clicked

Better than that, the left and right click scroll by an amount
proportional to how far down the bar you click it. Viewed another way,
left click moves the line from the cursor position to the top of the
window, right click moves the top line to the cursor position. It is
(was) really well thought out.

[...]

I did some web searching to try to fix this. I found how to move my
scrollbar in emacs back over to the left, instead of on the right
(set-scroll-bar-mode 'left), but I haven't found a way to get my old
mouse behavior back in emacs,

You need to rebuild emacs to achieve that. This note from
/usr/share/doc/emacs23-common/README.Debian.gz is the key:
If you prefer the old-style, non-toolkit scrollbars, just edit
debian/rules to add --without-toolkit-scrollbars where indicated and
rebuild.

The splendid Debian Reference has a guide to rebuilding packages:
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_porting_a_package_to_the_stable_system
- Make sure you set the deb-src line to the same release as you're
using (because you're not doing a backport).
- Before the build step, add the following lines in debian/rules at the
appropriate places:
confflags_x += --without-toolkit-scroll-bars
confflags_lucid += --without-toolkit-scroll-bars

Allow plenty of time for the build. My notes say 42min to build
emacs23 on a 3GHz P4.

much less make it standard across all X programs. Is this possible?

Ideally scroll bar behaviour would be a window manager function, but
as you've observed, it seems to be built into each application.

[...]

Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions.

Did you know that xterm has the same scrollbar behaviour? Unlike every
other terminal emulator that I'm aware of.

--
Cheers,
Clive

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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

2013-10-12 Thread Joe

On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 09:15:16 -0500
John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com wrote:

 Joe writes:
  I think the vast majority of computers are used with an Internet
  connection, which these days means a router rather than a modem.
 
 1) A dialup connection to the Internet is still an Internet
 connection.

Indeed, but it tends not to involve local networking. And before your
next post, I know it could, but I don't know of anybody who has ever
done it. I've only networked the odd mobile dongle. I do know of a
couple of people who use dial-up, but they are very much the exception
rather than the rule.

 2) A DSL or cable modem is still a modem
 (MOdulator/DEModulator),

As I am aware. Did you ask?

 though most include routers and other
 useless stuff.

 ..when it is normally customary to refer to them as routers. Pedants
might call them modem-routers, but nobody else does. Occasionally it is
necessary to call them DSL or cable routers to distinguish them from
each other.

What's the point here of the pedantry? The current sub-topic is about
automatic local network configuration, which anyone with a single
computer on a PPP Internet connection doesn't need. Modems by
definition use PPP links, and most people don't use their PCs or
laptops as routers. And yes, before you reply, I know they can. I used
to know without looking it up where the Windows registry key for TCP/IP
forwarding was.

-- 
Joe


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RE: Set widescreen resolution in console

2013-10-12 Thread Antonio Paiva

Thank you Dmitrii.

I did try vga=ask but that option is no longer supported by the
debian kernel. On the grub console, I also tried vbeinfo and couldn't
find the 1024x480 mode. And vbetest only worked with 640x480.

Antonio
From: Dmitrii Kashin
Sent: 10/10/2013 3:25 PM
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Set widescreen resolution in console
Antonio Paiva alpharomeop...@gmail.com writes:

 Hi everyone,

 I have recently acquired an old Sony Vaio PCG-C1VN (aka, a PictureBook)
 and installed Debian wheezy. The problem is that I can only get the
 *console* to run at 640x480 resolution.

First of all, have you tried to boot your kernel with vga=ask option?

pgpj6IAd9rv66.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

2013-10-12 Thread Miles Fidelman


Joe wrote:

On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 09:15:16 -0500
John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com wrote:


Joe writes:

I think the vast majority of computers are used with an Internet
connection, which these days means a router rather than a modem.

1) A dialup connection to the Internet is still an Internet
connection.

Indeed, but it tends not to involve local networking. And before your
next post, I know it could, but I don't know of anybody who has ever
done it. I've only networked the odd mobile dongle. I do know of a
couple of people who use dial-up, but they are very much the exception
rather than the rule.


Well just as a data point, connecting via a mobile phone quite often 
behaves like dial-up (at least it does if you use a bluetooth 
connection), and as soon as you have a laptop that you use in multiple 
locations, you are doing some level of systems and network admin.


What's the point here of the pedantry? The current sub-topic is about 
automatic local network configuration, which anyone with a single 
computer on a PPP Internet connection doesn't need. Modems by 
definition use PPP links, and most people don't use their PCs or 
laptops as routers. And yes, before you reply, I know they can. I used 
to know without looking it up where the Windows registry key for 
TCP/IP forwarding was. 


Well, just to add to the pedantry: Modems do NOT use PPP by 
definition.  PPP is a specific link-level protocol, which, if used, is 
usually running on one's computer, not on the modem.


Now.. as to the larger question at hand:

Personally, I run, support, and configure:
- my own computers (laptop, development sandbox under my desk, android 
smartphone, android tablet, backup storage device, printer)
- my family's computers (multiple laptops and handhelds, storage 
devices, network storage service, more printers, household network)
- a work-provided laptop (dual-administered by the company's IT and 
network admins - large microsoft environment)
- a department sharepoint server (shared admin role with several other 
people - running on a virtual machine, someone else administers the cluster)
- 4-server high-availablility cluster sitting in  commercial data center 
(leftover from a hosting business I used to have, currently a 
combination of  a development sandbox and a product system for a bunch 
of email users, lists, and web servers - mostly for local non-profits)


Do I consider myself a sysadmin (and/or a netadmin)?  Well:
- I used to sell hosting services for a living, and did most of the 
systems administration involved in doing so
- I certainly administer a significant number of machines and network 
devices/services, and,
- for some of them, I'm on call 24x7 (my phone rings if the cluster goes 
down), but...

- none of this is paid for, and other than the cluster, it's all informal
- I don't have a particularly in-depth familiarity with things like 
Nagios, serious shell scripting, any of the new devops tools, storage 
area networks - hence, I probably could not go out and get a full-time 
job as a professional systems or network administrator


Bottom Line:
- I certainly feel comfortable saying that I DO a lot of systems and 
network administration,
- I would feel on very shakey grounds calling myself a (professional) 
system or network administrator (it's not my day job)
- I wouldn't put it on my resume anywhere other than as a couple of 
bullet points re. skills - certainly not as a title I could lay claim to


Miles Fidelman


--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


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Re: Debian installer and raid0

Francesco Pietra wrote:
 I hope not to bother beyond the limit, but the security of mirror raid is
 something of utmost importance, at least in my work of biochemist, with
 very limited ability in recovering from disk failures.

I must express concern.  While RAID is very useful to keeping a system
running across disk failures that it is not a backup.  Even with RAID
functioning perfectly it is possible to have accidental file deletion
and other file mangling.  A known good backup is still required!
Having good RAID does not remove the need for a backup.  Operating a
critical system without backup is a scary thing.

Important enough to repeat.  A known good backup is still required!

Bob


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Description: Digital signature

Re: mdadm gives segmentatin fault on wheezy. RAID array now incomplete.

Hendrik Boom wrote:
 I ran
 mdadm /dev/md1 --add /dev/sdd2
 and got a segmentation fault.

Ouch.  Scary!

 april:/farhome/hendrik# cat /proc/mdstat
 Personalities : [raid1] 
 md1 : active raid1 sdb2[1]
   2391295864 blocks super 1.2 [2/1] [_U]
   
 md0 : active raid1 sda4[0] sdc4[1]
   706337792 blocks [2/2] [UU]
   
 unused devices: none
 april:/farhome/hendrik# mdadm /dev/md1 --add /dev/sdd2
 Segmentation fault
 april:/farhome/hendrik# 

I read the subsequent email responses but I think they went the wrong
direction.  The segfault was in mdadm not the disk.  It isn't the disk
with the problem.  The problem is with mdadm.  The solution is
therefore to find and fix mdadm not the disk.

Or it is in a library loaded by mdadm.  But there are only three and
they are used by every program.

  $ ldd -d -r /sbin/mdadm
linux-vdso.so.1 (0x7fffe6bb4000)
libc.so.6 = /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 (0x7f78df26)
/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x7f78df632000)

I suspect that you have one of several possibilities.  Some type of
file system corruption leading to a problem with the mdadm binary.  I
would checksum the package and see if it points to something.  If you
are lucky it will and then will know that is it.

  # debsums mdadm

It could also be some type of api mismatch between versions of
program, libs, kernel system calls.  I don't know.  I am reaching on
this one.

First I would make sure your system is up to date all around.  You
said you used Wheezy.  I would verify that you are up to date all
around.  I have seen people think they were up to date but forgot to
run 'update' first and so they were actually not.  I have seen people
have failures with the upgrade but not notice the failure and so
actually had broken packages and did not know it.

  apt-get update
  apt-get upgrade
  apt-get dist-upgrade

You might try re-installing just the mdadm package.

  apt-get install --reinstall mdadm

 What now?

I strongly suspect a broken system.  Because mdadm on Wheezy is
working fine for zillions of other people.  If it were a bug in mdadm
then I suspect that it would have been hit by many others.  It isn't.
So I suspect something uniquely wrong on your system.  That is why I
think you should start by trying to figure out what specifically about
your system is going on and fixing it there.

If I could not fix the problem by any other means then two more
difficult options would be available.  I would shutdown and remove the
disks from the faulty system and mount them on a different known good
system and then use the other working mdadm and fix the disk problem.
This would actually be a good test of something else too.  If the
problem followed to the known good system then it is clearly a data
dependent bug in mdadm.  If not then it is a broken system in some
way.  Afterward you could move the disks back to the original machine.
Since the raid had been sync'd then the raid back on the original
machine should also boot up sync'd.  That would not really address the
mdadm segfault problem.  However you might not care at that point.
Not unless some other problem pops up.

The next thing would be to get the source to mdadm and compile it
locally on the system.  The step through the program in the debugger.
While running in the debugger the segfault will be trapped and you
should be able to see what part of the code is triggering the problem.

  # apt-get build-dep mdadm
  $ apt-get source mdadm
  $ cd mdadm-3.2.5
  $ ./debian/rules build
  $ ./mdadm --version
  mdadm - v3.2.5 - 18th May 2012

Do the build-dep as root.  Do the rest as yourself, non-root.  But
then to run the debugger is a very long howto that will vary depending
upon many things.  I run gdb within emacs.  And for mdadm it all needs
to be run as root to have the right access.  After that I must leave
it there.  But debugging the program should allow you to figure out
what is actually segfaulting.  If it is a program bug then it could be
fixed and reported.

Bob


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Re: apt-get update fails after wheezy update

Steven G. Johnson wrote:
 Jochen Spieker wrote:
 Very strange. Did you try changing to another mirror, just to see if
 that helps? Did you set a proxy in /etc/apt/apt.conf{,.d}?
 
 That was the problem: we had previously been using the approx proxy
 server, and there was an Acquire::http::proxy set in
 /etc/apt/apt.conf.d.   During the upgrade to wheezy, approx was held
 back for some reason and wasn't functioning, so I switched back to
 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/, but the file was preventing it
 from working.
 
 Commenting out the proxy in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/70debconf fixed the
 problem.  (Then I was able to upgrade approx and switch back to
 using the proxy, which is for a cluster setup, as before.)

This is too late to help you.  Glad to read that you have fixed your
problem.  But for the archive and others who search later let me add
this hint.  You can dump your current APT config settings and look for
any proxy settings.  For example:

  $ apt-config dump | grep -i proxy
  Acquire::http::Proxy http://192.168.230.109:3142;;

I am sure that if you saw that or similarly other settings that it
would have led you to the problem quickly.

Bob


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Re: [SOLVED] Static IP /etc/network/interfaces, but got leased by dhcp

Ivan Kovnatsky wrote:
 Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:
  Hm. This should not be happening.
  Was it DHCP recently? (i.e. at any time since the last reboot) Because
  this sequence of events would produce what you saw:
 
 I have uptime:
 
   And I fount that dhcp was running:
 
  Alternatively: when switching from dhcp to static: kill off any
  remaining dhcp clients manually :-)
 
 That must be it.  I might have used dhcp in /etc/network/interfaces
 some time ago, and dhcp client must have been hanging there.

If you had booted with the dhcp entry then ifupdown would have started
the dhclient.  The dhclient will run until the interface is downed.
If you had edited the file and remove the dhcp entry without downing
the interface first then it would leave dhclient running.

This is a good sequence.

  ...boot starts everything...
  # ifdown eth0
  # editor /etc/network/interfaces
  # ifup eth0

But if you forget then it is bad.  This is a bad sequence.

  ...boot starts everything...
  # editor /etc/network/interfaces
  # ifdown eth0
  # ifup eth0

The ifdown in that case came after the edit.  It doesn't down the
_previous_ configuration.  It downs the *new* configuration.

I don't recommend rebooting unless it is necessary but I will note
that if you had rebooted then it would have started only with the
configuration file /etc/network/interfaces configuration and that
would have worked.  No dhclient would have ever been started in that
case.

HTH,
Bob


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Re: which file should I download

berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
 Anjan Mitra a écrit :
 debian-7.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso [1] 2013-06-16 01:39 3.7G
 debian-7.1.0-amd64-DVD-2.iso [2] 2013-06-16 01:39 4.4G
 debian-7.1.0-amd64-DVD-3.iso [3] 2013-06-16 01:39 4.4G
 debian-update-7.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso [4] 2013-06-16 05:34 2.9G
 
 http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.1.0/amd64/iso-dvd/debian-7.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso
  3.7G
 http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.1.0/amd64/iso-dvd/debian-7.1.0-amd64-DVD-2.iso
  4.4G
 http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.1.0/amd64/iso-dvd/debian-7.1.0-amd64-DVD-3.iso
  4.4G
 http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.1.0/amd64/iso-dvd/debian-update-7.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso
  2.9G
 
 Not a lot of description of your problem,

Agreed.

 but I'll assume you want to download an installation image.  If so,
 then in all those files it would be debian-7.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso

Yes.  Of those files listed.  But that is a lot of gigs of possibly
unused data to download.  We can do better!  :-)

Instead I recommend downloading the netinst image.  It is much
smaller.  Here is the reference page for it.

  http://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/

Currently (subject to change):

  222M
  
http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.1.0/amd64/iso-cd/debian-7.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso

Bob


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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

2013-10-12 Thread Markus Falb


On 12.Okt.2013, at 01:22, Terho Uotila wrote:

 On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 00:11:01 +0200
 berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
 
 Oh, of course, if you speak about giving yourself a label, then,
 fine. Take the one you want. But, it does not mean that you can claim
 to be a professional, or that you can say someone is a professional.
 
 It seemed to me that rootly powers doesn't make sysadmin camp equated
 sysadmin with _professional_ sysadmin (or as job title), and above kind
 of confirms this.
 
 (I believe) other camp (rootly powers makes sysadmin) on the other
 hand is talking about role person performs in administering system,
 whether in professional capacity or non-professional. (I admit I'm in
 this group.)
 
 I hope this helps you all agree on something. :)

I agree! There are different points of view.

Some years ago I would have said I am a System Administrator if I were asked. 
The business cards I got from employer said System engineer.

Maybe it's just a concept which somehow evades precise definition :-)

-- 
Markus


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Re: Problem starting shorewall6 (or possibly shorewall) on boot

Ulrik Haugen wrote:
 When I boot my machine something like the following is printed:

I don't know.  But there haven't been any other responses for several
days.  So I will make a comment.

 [   50.220571] xt_addrtype: ipv6 does not support BROADCAST matching
 Starting Shorewall firewall: not done.
 Starting Shorewall6 firewall: not done.
 [FAIL] startpar: service(s) returned failure: shorewall shorewall6 ... failed!

Are your devices in /etc/network/interfaces (other than the lo
device) marked as auto or allow-hotplug.  If auto then try
allow-hotplug.

 After boot my ip{,6}tables look like this:
 
 % sudo iptables -L -n -v
 ...various iptables rules dumped...

Odd that any rules were loaded at all since shorewall reported that it
failed.  Therefore that is a clue.  Could you have two different
packages or processes loading iptables rules?  Could they be
conflicting?  If you disable shorewall (startup=0 in
/etc/default/shorewall) then reboot do you still have iptables rules
loaded?  If so then something else is doing it.

 At this point starting shorewall-init, shorewall and shorewall6 produces
 no errors:

I am not using shorewall-init and am not having any of your listed
problems.  You might try purging it from your system to try to
simplify the problem and isolate where the problem exists.  Since you
are having an initialization problem I think simplifying the
initialization is a good thing.

If all else fails then I would make a local backup copy of
/etc/shorewall and associate files that you have created.  Then I
would purge all of the shorewall packages.  Verify that all of the
/etc configuration has been cleaned out.  Then do a clean installation
of shorewall again.  Enable it (start=1) with the minimum
configuration.  Does that work?  If so then add one thing at a time to
the configuration until it breaks so that you will know where the
problem exists.

Good luck!
Bob


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Re: apt-get vs. aptitude

On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 12:10 PM, msl09 contams...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 2:45 AM, Dmitrii Kashin free...@freehck.ru wrote:
Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com writes:

Have you filed a bug report about aptitude breaking apt (whatever
that means!) or is this just FUD?

No, I have not. Because it is normal aptitude's behaviour.

It was a cognitive case...

You start out by replying that this isn't a bug but normal for
aptitude!

Yes, it's normal for aptitude, but isn't it ugliness?

And I agree.

Aptitude gives you the option to to install a piece of software
without a hard dependency (and then dealing with the consequences) or
of overriding a previous choice of software installation.

It gives you a choice! It doesn't install packages that breaks your
installation or conflicts with your requirements without your consent!

Great. It gives me a choice to break my system, and the only thing that
separates me from it is the letter 'y'. Thanks. I do not like this
choice. I would prefer not to have it.

Not only is aptitude not broken but it doesn't break apt since you can
still use apt-get/aptitude to install other packages.

Did you read carefully. or your aim is to start a new holywar?

In this new installation I gave it another try but when it started
suggesting very weird plans (like remove all gnome packages) I happily
went back to apt and never looked back.

Please don't top-post.

If aptitude's such a destructive package, why is it still in the repositories?

I suspect that the problem's in the examples above are simply PEBKAC.

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Re: linux-image-3.10-3-amd64 unbootable: /dev/disk/by-uuid not created