Re: Persistent names for audio devices.

[Reco]

Hi.

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 08:20:16PM -0700, pe...@easthope.ca wrote:
> From: Reco , Sun, 20 Oct 2019 20:57:52 +0300
> > So, does it work?
> 
> Got sound from the Intel device on the system board.  Oddly enough 
> there was a plastic cover over the sockets on the chassis back.  Pried 
> it off to plug the speaker jack.
> 
> Here is some further info.

I had to restore mail archive from the backup to understand what exact
problem you're referring to. You could've started a new thread as well. 


> They appear to initialize.

aplay -L
arecord -L

I've mentioned the first one at least twice in my previous e-mails, but
I've yet to see full output of them. Please provide it.


And, since I mentioned that then - installing pulseaudio could solve
this problem too.

Reco

Re: bash syntax

[Teemu Likonen]

* 2021-07-29 21:16:26+0100, mick crane wrote:

>4 ((ct++))
>5 scanimage > /home/mick/DATA/SCANS/scan-$ct.pnm

Items 4 and 5 could be combined using $((++ct)):

scanimage > /home/mick/DATA/SCANS/scan-$((++ct)).pnm

> What's the thing with the ct being in double brackets and not having
> the "$" ?

You have already got answers but here is another. Bash has a special
arithmetic evaluation mode which happens in:

let ...  # returns true (0) or false (1)
(( ... ))# returns true (0) or false (1)
$(( ... ))   # returns the value of the expression

-- 
/// Teemu Likonen - .-.. https://www.iki.fi/tlikonen/
// OpenPGP: 4E1055DC84E9DFF613D78557719D69D324539450


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

32b upgrade to 64 b; Boot.plist

[Gunnar Gervin]

Hi beautiful ideals!
Decided to install Virtual Machine & Docker in this 14 year old ex-Macbook.
In which I installed Debian "Buster" i386 32 bits. As some of you know, I
did some failures during installation, the dvd player "hung" a bit several
times, so I saw it installing at least 3 times. I made a puzzling
observation: 64 came up a lot of times, but the machine seemed to handle
it. ("Is it 64 bits anyway?" I wondered.)
Now I found the following information in Wikipedia:
" Mac OS X 10.6  is
the first version of macOS  that
supports a 64-bit kernel .
"
n Snow Leopard, most built-in applications have been rebuilt to use the
64-bit x86-64  architecture
 (excluding
iTunes , Front Row
, Grapher
 and DVD Player
 applications).[43]
 They
will run in 32-bit  mode on machines
with 32-bit processors, and in 64-bit mode on machines with 64-bit
processors.
A change to the com.apple.Boot.plist will also enable users with compatible
computers to permanently boot into 64-bit for those wishing to do so.
After upgrading the kernel from 32b to 64b, if advisable & possible.
How to do that? Clean reinstall I guess optional, but will that suffice?
Geg

Re: Persistent names for audio devices.

[peter]

From:   Reco , Sun, 20 Oct 2019 20:57:52 +0300
> So, does it work?

Got sound from the Intel device on the system board.  Oddly enough 
there was a plastic cover over the sockets on the chassis back.  Pried 
it off to plug the speaker jack.

Here is some further info.

Read https://wiki.debian.org/ALSA and followed the Troubleshooting and 
Checklist sections.

root@joule:~# cat /proc/asound/cards
 0 [ICH5   ]: ICH4 - Intel ICH5
  Intel ICH5 with AD1980 at irq 17
 1 [Live   ]: EMU10K1X - Dell Sound Blaster Live!
  Dell Sound Blaster Live! at 0xdf20 irq 22
 2 [U0x46d0x807]: USB-Audio - USB Device 0x46d:0x807
  USB Device 0x46d:0x807 at usb-:03:08.2-3, high speed
 3 [Set]: USB-Audio - C-Media USB Headphone Set
  C-Media USB Headphone Set at usb-:00:1d.0-2, full 
speed

Mostly consistent with visible hardware.  Really just one USB.
Odd that the Intel device refers to both ICH4 & ICH5.

root@joule:~# alsactl init
Found hardware: "ICH4" "Analog Devices AD1980" "AC97a:41445370" "0x1028" 
"0x0155"

Initialize one device?  According to the manual, all should be initialized.

peter@joule:/home/peter$ aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav
Playing WAVE '/usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav' : Signed 16 bit Little Endian, 
Rate 48000 Hz, Mono

That gives the white noise from ICH(4|5).

Try initializing other devices.

peter@joule:/home/peter$ alsactl init Live
Found hardware: "EMU10K1X" "SigmaTel STAC9708,11" "AC97a:83847608" "0x1102" 
"0x1003"
Hardware is initialized using a generic method

peter@joule:/home/peter$ alsactl init U0x46d0x807
Found hardware: "USB-Audio" "USB Mixer" "USB046d:0807" "" ""
Hardware is initialized using a generic method

peter@joule:/home/peter$ alsactl init Set
Found hardware: "USB-Audio" "USB Mixer" "USB0d8c:000c" "" ""
Hardware is initialized using a generic method
peter@joule:/home/peter$

They appear to initialize.

peter@joule:/home/peter$ aplay -D Live /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav
ALSA lib pcm.c:2565:(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM Live
aplay: main:828: audio open error: No such file or directory

peter@joule:/home/peter$ aplay -D U0x46d0x807 /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav
ALSA lib pcm.c:2565:(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM U0x46d0x807
aplay: main:828: audio open error: No such file or directory

peter@joule:/home/peter$ aplay -D Set /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav
ALSA lib pcm.c:2565:(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM Set
aplay: main:828: audio open error: No such file or directory

Initialized but no sound. ?

Further ideas and tips?

Thx, ... P.

-- 
48.7693 N 123.3053 W
tel: +1 604 670 0140

Re: bash syntax

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 07:38:07PM -0400, kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 4:23 PM Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 09:16:26PM +0100, mick crane wrote:
> > >   4 ((ct++))
> >
> > > What's the thing with the ct being in double brackets and not having the 
> > > "$"
> > > ?
> >
> > https://mywiki.wooledge.org/ArithmeticExpression
> >
> 
> Nice wiki page, Greg. Could you please consider adding a "Table of
> Contents" to it? Having an outline would help, I think.

You could have done it, albeit with a bit more difficulty (there's a
hoop one must jump through for anti-spam purposes, and believe me,
it's necessary).

But I've done it.

Re: bash syntax

[kamaraju kusumanchi]

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 4:23 PM Greg Wooledge  wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 09:16:26PM +0100, mick crane wrote:
> >   4 ((ct++))
>
> > What's the thing with the ct being in double brackets and not having the "$"
> > ?
>
> https://mywiki.wooledge.org/ArithmeticExpression
>

Nice wiki page, Greg. Could you please consider adding a "Table of
Contents" to it? Having an outline would help, I think.

thanks
raju
-- 
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi | http://www.kamaraju.xyz/dk/blog

HS: Re: Fwd: bogue dlopen croisé dans RefPerSys (commit 8553aeaa8442)

[didier gaumet]

(je modofie le titre en Hors-Sujet parce que c'est vrai que ça ,'a pas
un rapport direct avec Debian...)

Bonjour,

Comme d'hab', vu mon niveau, pendre ce que je dis avec des (grosses)
pincettes.

Je suppose que l'erreur intervient sur le code généré dynamiquement,
alors peut-être que, temporairement, rajouter l'option --no-undefined à
l'intruction gcc/g++ de ton programme qui te sert à cette génération
dynamique pourrait t'indiquer plus précisément quel est le problème?

cf
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37834283/undefined-symbol-in-shared-library

Re: bash syntax

[der.hans]

Am 29. Jul, 2021 schwätzte mick crane so:

moin moin nick,


I nicked this off some guy on the internet.
 1 #!/bin/bash
 2 count_file="scan_count.txt"
 3 ct=`cat $count_file`
 4 ((ct++))
 5 scanimage > /home/mick/DATA/SCANS/scan-$ct.pnm
 6 echo $ct > $count_file

What's the thing with the ct being in double brackets and not having the "$" 
?


shell math.

Seach the bash man page for "ARITHMETIC EVALUATION"

In this case, it's adding one to the value that ct had.

3 Read the number in the file
4 Increment it by one
5 Run scanimage using the number in the file name
6 Write the new number to the file


scan_count.txt just is one line with a number.


It's tracking the number of iterations to create numbered filenames for
the scanimage output.

ciao,

der.hans
--
#  https://www.LuftHans.com   https://www.PhxLinux.org
#  When I work, I work hard. When I play, I play hard.
#  When I sit, I sleep. - Embe Kugler

Ysuyuur

[Rafael Sánchez Castro]

Errueyeht
Ut
Enviado desde mi iPhone

Re: bash syntax

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 09:16:26PM +0100, mick crane wrote:
>   4 ((ct++))

> What's the thing with the ct being in double brackets and not having the "$"
> ?

https://mywiki.wooledge.org/ArithmeticExpression

bash syntax

[mick crane]

I nicked this off some guy on the internet.
  1 #!/bin/bash
  2 count_file="scan_count.txt"
  3 ct=`cat $count_file`
  4 ((ct++))
  5 scanimage > /home/mick/DATA/SCANS/scan-$ct.pnm
  6 echo $ct > $count_file

What's the thing with the ct being in double brackets and not having the 
"$" ?

scan_count.txt just is one line with a number.
mick
--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: suppress interactive messages at upgrade

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 14:12:34 -0500
David Wright  wrote:

> I'm not addressed here, nor have I run unattended, nor used
> DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive, but I would assume that
> any need to restart will get logged. Seems likely.

I have used unattended-upgrades. It will either handle reboots
automatically, at a time of day you specify, or it will let you know.

Unattended-upgrades can be configured to send an email to an
appropriate user when it runs. It will let you know if a reboot is
required in the subject line. The email consists of the log of the
upgrade process, so you can see exactly what it did, including packages
upgraded.

You can use the automatic reboot if you don't have an encrypted file
system; otherwise, I recommend you reboot manually.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Fwd: bogue dlopen croisé dans RefPerSys (commit 8553aeaa8442)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Quel package pour Debian ?

On 2021-07-29 3:48 p.m., Basile Starynkevitch wrote:
> 
> Bonsoir,
> 
> 
> Une demande d'aide, que j'ai postée vers une liste April, mais qui
> concerne un logiciel libre sous Debian/Testing/x86-64 (ou Ubuntu 21.04)
> 
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject:  bogue dlopen croisé dans RefPerSys (commit 8553aeaa8442)
> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 21:40:04 +0200
> From: Basile Starynkevitch 
> To:   techni...@april.org
> 
> 
> 
> Bonsoir à tous,
> 
> RefPerSys  est un logiciel libre d'intelligence
> artificielle symbolique (sous licence GPLv3+) sous Linux. La
> philosophie, c'est /méta-connaissances déclaratives/ (vous lirez avec
> profit le livre: /Méta-connaissances, futur de l'Intelligence
> Artificielle/  ISBN  2-86601-247-X, Hermès 1997) auto-génération du
> système (j'en suis encore loin, mais grâce à d'autres je m'en rapproche...).
> 
> Pour les curieux, voir les exposés en
> https://afia.asso.fr/journee-hommage-j-pitrat/
>  et surtout, lire le
> dernier livre de Pitrat (en anglais) /Artificial Beings : the Conscience
> of a Conscious Machine/ ISBN-13: 978-1848211018. Ce livre se lit bien et
> ne nécessite pas de connaissances informatiques poussées.
> 
> Le code C++ (actuellement écrit à la main, hélas; je voudrais en générer
> davantage) de RefPerSys (commenté en anglais) est en
> https://github.com/RefPerSys/RefPerSys
> 
> 
> et ce message concerne le git commit 8553aeaa8442
> 
> 
> L'idée directrice (insuffisamment suivie) est de traduire un formalisme
> de règles (systèmes experts) en du code généré C++, actuellement
> utilisant Qt5. L'état persistant de RefPerSys est stocké dans des
> fichiers textuels (sous persistore/ ...) dans un format inspiré de JSON.
> 
> La configuration de RefPerSys est artisanale: un banal Makefile, avec un
> fichier inclus $HOME/.refpersys.mk qui contient par exemple
> 
> # file ~/.refpersys.mk
> RPS_BUILD_CC= /usr/bin/gcc-10
> RPS_BUILD_CXX= /usr/bin/g++-10
> 
> (on peut remplacer gcc-10 par gcc-11 ou clang-12, etc...)
> 
> 
> Après avoir compilé RefPerSys (par un make -j7 refpersys && make all) je
> le lance avec ./refpersys --Qt -AGUI,WEB et j'obtiens (depuis un commit
> ou deux) systématiquement l'erreur:
> 
> rimski.x86_64 ~/RefPerSys 20:53 .0 % ./refpersys --Qt -AGUI,WEB
> 
> 
> *** RefPerSys INFORM: main_rps.cc:754: 
>  !-!-! starting RefPerSys !-!-! ./refpersys process 10298 on host rimski
> ... gitid 8553aeaa84429a15 built Thu 29 Jul 2021 08:53:24 PM MEST
> (main@0x555c2cba177d) interactive mode (3 jobs)
> 
> make: Entering directory '/home/basile/RefPerSys'
> make: Leaving directory '/home/basile/RefPerSys'
> ** RefPerSys INFORM! main_rps.cc:586: void rps_check_mtime_files()
> rps_check_mtime_files: did make -t -C /home/basile/RefPerSys -q objects
> successfully
> ** RefPerSys INFORM! store_rps.cc:749: void
> Rps_Loader::load_all_state_files() loaded 1 space files in second pass
> with 196 objects and 0 todos
> 
> ** RefPerSys INFORM! store_rps.cc:2721: void rps_load_from(const
> string&) rps_load_from completed
> ... from directory /home/basile/RefPerSys with RefPerSys built Thu 29
> Jul 2021 08:53:24 PM MEST
>  lastgitcommit 8553aeaa8442 more code in
> RpsTemp_ObjectBrowser::refresh_object_browser - the loop to display
> object is incomplete
>  md5sum 45449edd9382713d22f67e2b8edad88b
>  loaded 196 objects in 0.004 elapsed, 0.004 cpu seconds
>  so 22.165 elapsed µs/ob, 22.161 cpu µs/ob, in 7434 memory words.
> =
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *** RefPerSys INFORM: main_rps.cc:1120:  char**)>
>  rps_run_application: start of ./refpersys
> .. gitid 8553aeaa84429a15d52d961e632210c93dc1f8ae+
> .. build timestamp Thu 29 Jul 2021 08:53:24 PM MEST
> .. last git commit 8553aeaa8442 more code in
> RpsTemp_ObjectBrowser::refresh_object_browser - the loop to display
> object is incomplete
> .. md5sum 45449edd9382713d22f67e2b8edad88b
> .. in /home/basile/RefPerSys
> .. on host rimski pid 10298
> 
> 
> ** RefPerSys INFORM! main_rps.cc:1675: bool rps_set_debug_flag(const
> string&) setting debugging flag GUI
> ** RefPerSys INFORM! main_rps.cc:1675: bool rps_set_debug_flag(const
> string&) setting debugging flag WEB
> 
> 
> *** RefPerSys INFORM: main_rps.cc:1138:  char**)>
>  rps_run_application did set debug after load to GUI,WEB
> 
> ** RefPerSys INFORM! main_rps.cc:1206: void rps_run_application(int&,
> char**) rps_run_application will do Qt from pid 10298 on rimski so make
> tempgui-qrps.so
> make: 'tempgui-qrps.so' is up to date.
> 
> 
> ** RefPerSys FATAL! main_rps.cc:1214:: dlopen tempgui-qrps.so failed :
> ./tempgui-qrps.so: undefined symbol: _ZN17Rps_PayloadStrBuf12clear_bufferEv
> 
> RPS FATAL:
>  RefPerSys gitid 8553aeaa84429a15d52d961e632210c93dc1f8ae+,
>   

Fwd: bogue dlopen croisé dans RefPerSys (commit 8553aeaa8442)

[Basile Starynkevitch]

Bonsoir,


Une demande d'aide, que j'ai postée vers une liste April, mais qui 
concerne un logiciel libre sous Debian/Testing/x86-64 (ou Ubuntu 21.04)


 Forwarded Message 
Subject:bogue dlopen croisé dans RefPerSys (commit 8553aeaa8442)
Date:   Thu, 29 Jul 2021 21:40:04 +0200
From:   Basile Starynkevitch 
To: techni...@april.org



Bonsoir à tous,

RefPerSys  est un logiciel libre d'intelligence 
artificielle symbolique (sous licence GPLv3+) sous Linux. La 
philosophie, c'est /méta-connaissances déclaratives/ (vous lirez avec 
profit le livre: /Méta-connaissances, futur de l'Intelligence 
Artificielle/  ISBN  2-86601-247-X, Hermès 1997) auto-génération du 
système (j'en suis encore loin, mais grâce à d'autres je m'en rapproche...).


Pour les curieux, voir les exposés en 
https://afia.asso.fr/journee-hommage-j-pitrat/ 
 et surtout, lire le 
dernier livre de Pitrat (en anglais) /Artificial Beings : the Conscience 
of a Conscious Machine/ ISBN-13: 978-1848211018. Ce livre se lit bien et 
ne nécessite pas de connaissances informatiques poussées.


Le code C++ (actuellement écrit à la main, hélas; je voudrais en générer 
davantage) de RefPerSys (commenté en anglais) est en 
https://github.com/RefPerSys/RefPerSys



et ce message concerne le git commit 8553aeaa8442 



L'idée directrice (insuffisamment suivie) est de traduire un formalisme 
de règles (systèmes experts) en du code généré C++, actuellement 
utilisant Qt5. L'état persistant de RefPerSys est stocké dans des 
fichiers textuels (sous persistore/ ...) dans un format inspiré de JSON.


La configuration de RefPerSys est artisanale: un banal Makefile, avec un 
fichier inclus $HOME/.refpersys.mk qui contient par exemple


# file ~/.refpersys.mk
RPS_BUILD_CC= /usr/bin/gcc-10
RPS_BUILD_CXX= /usr/bin/g++-10

(on peut remplacer gcc-10 par gcc-11 ou clang-12, etc...)


Après avoir compilé RefPerSys (par un make -j7 refpersys && make all) je 
le lance avec ./refpersys --Qt -AGUI,WEB et j'obtiens (depuis un commit 
ou deux) systématiquement l'erreur:


rimski.x86_64 ~/RefPerSys 20:53 .0 % ./refpersys --Qt -AGUI,WEB


*** RefPerSys INFORM: main_rps.cc:754: 
 !-!-! starting RefPerSys !-!-! ./refpersys process 10298 on host rimski
... gitid 8553aeaa84429a15 built Thu 29 Jul 2021 08:53:24 PM MEST 
(main@0x555c2cba177d) interactive mode (3 jobs)


make: Entering directory '/home/basile/RefPerSys'
make: Leaving directory '/home/basile/RefPerSys'
** RefPerSys INFORM! main_rps.cc:586: void rps_check_mtime_files() 
rps_check_mtime_files: did make -t -C /home/basile/RefPerSys -q objects 
successfully
** RefPerSys INFORM! store_rps.cc:749: void 
Rps_Loader::load_all_state_files() loaded 1 space files in second pass 
with 196 objects and 0 todos


** RefPerSys INFORM! store_rps.cc:2721: void rps_load_from(const 
string&) rps_load_from completed
... from directory /home/basile/RefPerSys with RefPerSys built Thu 29 
Jul 2021 08:53:24 PM MEST
 lastgitcommit 8553aeaa8442 more code in 
RpsTemp_ObjectBrowser::refresh_object_browser - the loop to display 
object is incomplete

 md5sum 45449edd9382713d22f67e2b8edad88b
 loaded 196 objects in 0.004 elapsed, 0.004 cpu seconds
 so 22.165 elapsed µs/ob, 22.161 cpu µs/ob, in 7434 memory words.
=




*** RefPerSys INFORM: main_rps.cc:1120: char**)>

 rps_run_application: start of ./refpersys
.. gitid 8553aeaa84429a15d52d961e632210c93dc1f8ae+
.. build timestamp Thu 29 Jul 2021 08:53:24 PM MEST
.. last git commit 8553aeaa8442 more code in 
RpsTemp_ObjectBrowser::refresh_object_browser - the loop to display 
object is incomplete

.. md5sum 45449edd9382713d22f67e2b8edad88b
.. in /home/basile/RefPerSys
.. on host rimski pid 10298


** RefPerSys INFORM! main_rps.cc:1675: bool rps_set_debug_flag(const 
string&) setting debugging flag GUI
** RefPerSys INFORM! main_rps.cc:1675: bool rps_set_debug_flag(const 
string&) setting debugging flag WEB



*** RefPerSys INFORM: main_rps.cc:1138: char**)>

 rps_run_application did set debug after load to GUI,WEB

** RefPerSys INFORM! main_rps.cc:1206: void rps_run_application(int&, 
char**) rps_run_application will do Qt from pid 10298 on rimski so make 
tempgui-qrps.so

make: 'tempgui-qrps.so' is up to date.


** RefPerSys FATAL! main_rps.cc:1214:: dlopen tempgui-qrps.so failed : 
./tempgui-qrps.so: undefined symbol: _ZN17Rps_PayloadStrBuf12clear_bufferEv


RPS FATAL:
 RefPerSys gitid 8553aeaa84429a15d52d961e632210c93dc1f8ae+,
     built timestamp Thu 29 Jul 2021 08:53:24 PM MEST,
     on host rimski, md5sum 45449edd9382713d22f67e2b8edad88b,
     elapsed 0.068, process 0.022 sec
[001] main_rps.cc:1214°: rps_run_application @0x555c2cb9f84b
[002] main_rps.cc:768°: main @0x555c2cba242d
= end fatal error 

Re: Debmirror

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

>> Yes, just copy the *Release* file.
> 
> The "*"s were wildcards, not emphasis.
> 
That's *confusing*

>> But doing things like trained monkey doesn't go nowhere.
>> [ … ] First thing is understanding why, so that the
>> choice I'll make …
> 
> Sure. It generally behoves one to understand any post here
> before acting on it, especially when it involves security.
> As I said, I don't condone what you're doing, so I'm not
> going to spend time thinking about it.
> 
I think we might have got misunderstood.
> BTW,
> 
>> Please don't write me (again) it's bad to create a local copy of
>> security-update.
> 
> I don't think I did, in either post. But neither do I want the
> appearance of supporting what you're doing, by replying to your posts.
> 
I didn't talk about you.
This was in my original post and was a message to everyone on the
mailing list who write me many time that it's bad to create a local
security update repository.

But I have bandwidth limitation on some client (they don't have
unlimited) so I have to do as much possible from my portable HD.

> Cheers,
> David.
> 

Cheers (and beers)
-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Problem with crash post-install [ was: Update or reinstall ]

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-29 3:13 p.m., David Wright wrote:

> 
> I realise that we're not all receiving posts from Gunnar, but do we
> actually know what the "update problem" is?
> 
> I recall:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/07/msg01003.html
> Is this the origin of the system under discussion?
> 
> Or is this?
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/07/msg00945.html
> 
> Then we have:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/07/msg01167.html
> Do we know what is meant by "crashing"?
> 
> In between, we have snippets on Grub, bash, busybox, keyboards,
> root partition flags, and more; none of it in a coherent thread.
> Quite honestly, I don't know where syncing the filesystem comes in.
> Why not just touch wood.
> 
> Cheers,
> David.
> 
> The sync filesystem comes for a suggestion.
Sync before update and after update.
3 sync in all so I don't remember what was the 3rd one.

But yes, it's quite messy all of this !

And like you mentioned, we don't even know if it's a Debian or what type.

When I read something like this...

On 2021-07-28 3:16 p.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote:
> It is a Toshiba 160 gb hd in a 14 years old Macbook i386 ❤️/x86 32 b
> booting from Bios not uefi. I'll give full report in 1-2 weeks, after
> put in VM in it, faster internet to it to handle VM.
> And built websites with it.
> Geg

*I get really confused...*

And when you post

In all of Gunnar's posts, I think I have only seen one report of actual
output posted, and I have no idea what the origin of that was, viz:

  # UNCONFIGURED FSTAB FOR BASE SYSTEM
  overlay / overlay rw 0 0
  tmpfs /tmp tmpfs nosuid,nodev 0 0
  /dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1 EXT2 nosuid,nodev,nofail,x-gvfs-show 0 0
  /dev/sda3 /mnt/sda3 EXT2
nosuid,nodev,nofail,x-gvfs-show,noauto,x-udisks-auth 0 0
  /dev/sda2 none swap sw,x-udisks-auth,noauto 0 0

*It doesn't help much ! And you ain't to blame...*
-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[David Wright]

On Thu 29 Jul 2021 at 12:54:14 (+0300), Anssi Saari wrote:
> Andrey Ponomarenko  writes:
> 
> > LiveCDs for quick testing:
> > https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-live-builds/amd64/iso-hybrid/
> 
> Well, are these images bootable via Grub directly and if so then what
> parameters are needed? Making testing easy eases testing...

As the images are iso-hybrids, you should be able to boot
them from a USB stick or a CD, and in a machine that boots
via UEFI or BIOS. Grub shouldn't be involved, as iso-hybrids
use isolinux.

Do you /particlarly/ want to use Grub? If so, it's possible,
but far more involved, and is basically a workaround if you
have no CD burner /and/ can't boot the machine from USB.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Debmirror

[David Wright]

On Thu 29 Jul 2021 at 04:12:47 (-0400), Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> On 2021-07-29 12:58 a.m., David Wright wrote:
> > On Sun 25 Jul 2021 at 09:37:14 (-0400), Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> > wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 25 Jul 2021, 04:41 Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> >>> On 2021-07-24 9:33 p.m., David Wright wrote:
> >>> > On Sat 24 Jul 2021 at 19:52:36 (-0400), Polyna-Maude 
> >>> Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> >>> >> Here are the message I get after my debmirror when I do apt-get 
> >>> update
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Err:31 file:/mnt/mirror/debian buster-updates/main amd64 Contents  
> >>> (deb)
> >>> >>   File not found -
> >>> >> /mnt/mirror/debian/dists/buster-updates/main/Contents-amd64 (2: No 
> >>> such
> >>> >> file or directory)
> >>> >> Reading package lists... Done
> >>> >> E: Failed to fetch
> >>> >> file:/mnt/mirror/debian/dists/buster/main/Contents-amd64  File not 
> >>> found
> >>> >> - /mnt/mirror/debian/dists/buster/main/Contents-amd64 (2: No such 
> >>> file
> >>> >> or directory)
> >>> >> E: Failed to fetch
> >>> >> file:/mnt/mirror/debian/dists/buster-updates/main/Contents-amd64 
> >>> File
> >>> >> not found - 
> >>> /mnt/mirror/debian/dists/buster-updates/main/Contents-amd64
> >>> >> (2: No such file or directory)
> >>> >>
> >>> >> The command I used for creating the mirror is
> >>> >>
> >>> >> debmirror --all --progress --verbose --method=http
> >>> >> --dist=buster,buster-updates,buster-backports
> >>> >> --section=main,contrib,non-free --arch=amd64,i386 
> >>> --rsync-extra=none
> >>> >> --source --i18n --keyring 
> >>> /usr/share/keyrings/debian-archive-keyring.gpg
> >>> >> --root=debian --host=debian.mirror.iweb.ca 
> >>>  /mnt/mirror/debian
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Got idea ?
> >>> >
> >>> > --getcontents ?
> >>> >
> >>> Giving this one a try
> >>>
> >> I'm not sure you have close to a clue what my problem is.
> >> Because when I simply change my repository to the usual Debian one, I
> >> can do my apt cache update properly.
> > 
> > and then
> > 
> > On Mon 26 Jul 2021 at 01:12:14 (-0400), Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> > wrote:
> >
> > --getcontents ?
> >
>  Giving this one a try
> 
> 
> >>> Gave this one a try and it worked.
> > 
> > Difficult to keep up.
> > 
> Difficult to keep up ?

Yes. Your first message appeared to say that I hadn't a clue.
The second appeared to say that my suggestion worked.

> I'll give you a hint...
> --getcontents = option for debmirror

What else would it be? You sensibly gave the debmirror command that
you typed. I merely typed   man mirror   and read there:

--getcontents
  Additionally download Contents..gz files. Note that these
  files can be relatively big and can change frequently,
  especially for the testing and unstable suites. Use of the
  available diff files is strongly recommended (see the --diff
  option).

and saw that you hadn't used it. So I suggested it.

> And maybe I shall have only sent this message to the person who told me
> to try --getcontents. Only wanted to say thanks for the help.

No problem.

> >> Now getting this problem :
> >>
> >> E: The repository 'file:/mnt/mirror/security-debian buster/updates
> >> Release' does not have a Release file.
> >> N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is
> >> therefore disabled by default.
> > 
> > Just copy the files *Release* from the website with wget?
> > (In no way condoning what you are attempting to do.)
> > 
> Yes, just copy the *Release* file.

The "*"s were wildcards, not emphasis.

> But doing things like trained monkey doesn't go nowhere.
> [ … ] First thing is understanding why, so that the
> choice I'll make …

Sure. It generally behoves one to understand any post here
before acting on it, especially when it involves security.
As I said, I don't condone what you're doing, so I'm not
going to spend time thinking about it.

BTW,

> Please don't write me (again) it's bad to create a local copy of
> security-update.

I don't think I did, in either post. But neither do I want the
appearance of supporting what you're doing, by replying to your posts.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Problem with crash post-install [ was: Update or reinstall ]

[David Wright]

On Thu 29 Jul 2021 at 18:09:51 (+0200), Marco Möller wrote:
> On 29.07.21 12:52, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> > I'm really asking why do it 3 time.
> > In case it came back to the prompt *before* finishing to do it's job ?
> > (...)
> Misunderstanding: I wanted to suggest to run a "sudo sync" (1) before
> and (2) after the update and (3) before the system shutdown, in order
> to exclude that data wasn't fully written to disk at possible critical
> moments. This in total are three different situations when I suggest
> to run the sync command, and in all this three different situations it
> shall be run, thus running it three times (in total three times, not
> triple repeated in one of the situations).

It doesn't actually matter in the first two cases whether the data has
been written to the device itself, as the filesystem access methods
won't allow you to read from the device, but you will receive the
up to date buffer contents instead.

> By the way, running it as "sudo" is not harming and makes sure that
> everything is written to disk without having to know if the sync
> command would behave different with and without the sudo.

You're presupposing that everyone is using the same superuser access
method. Many people will merely get the response:

$ sudo sync
Sorry, user foo is not allowed to execute '/usr/bin/sync' as root on bar.
$ 

> The point
> is, you want to debug a situation, you want to find out why an update
> is failing so severely and not reported to fail like this elsewhere,
> and sudo will not harm for this purpose while not using sudo could
> have left doubts if really all is written to disk - pragmatically
> focusing on problem solving without maybe producing more problems and
> without loosing time to construct a most elegant version of problem
> solving. Just get the problem solved!
> I am curious to read if the "sudo sync" runs solved the update problem.

I realise that we're not all receiving posts from Gunnar, but do we
actually know what the "update problem" is?

I recall:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/07/msg01003.html
Is this the origin of the system under discussion?

Or is this?
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/07/msg00945.html

Then we have:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/07/msg01167.html
Do we know what is meant by "crashing"?

In between, we have snippets on Grub, bash, busybox, keyboards,
root partition flags, and more; none of it in a coherent thread.
Quite honestly, I don't know where syncing the filesystem comes in.
Why not just touch wood.

Cheers,
David.

Re: suppress interactive messages at upgrade

[David Wright]

On Thu 29 Jul 2021 at 19:53:37 (+0200), Hans wrote:
> Hi Dan, Hi Ian,
> 
> I thought about unattended-upgraded, but this is not what really want. My 
> intention is more, to update using a script with apt and using "-y" tags. 
> This 
> is working well, instead of these two little issues. One I could solve 
> meanwhile (ncurses question with needrestart), the other one apppears only, 
> when a new kernel is installed.
> 
> Sure, I can set DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive, but then I might miss 
> something.

I'm not addressed here, nor have I run unattended, nor used
DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive, but I would assume that
any need to restart will get logged. Seems likely.

However, you might overlook the logs, so you might still
miss something. Isn't that just what needrestart's
interaction is for: so you can't miss it? I guess it's
time to decide.

> I know, both options will work, and might solve my problem, but I want to 
> avoid, to run in new issues.
> 
> But I will test both solutions you told of, and if there are other 
> suggestions, I will have a look at them as well. 

Cheers,
David.

Re: Update or reinstall

[David Wright]

On Thu 29 Jul 2021 at 04:16:39 (-0400), Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> On 2021-07-29 12:58 a.m., David Wright wrote:
> > On Wed 28 Jul 2021 at 17:25:09 (-0400), Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> > wrote:
> >> On 2021-07-28 3:16 p.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote:
> >>> It is a Toshiba 160 gb hd in a 14 years old Macbook i386 ❤️/x86 32 b
> >>> booting from Bios not uefi. I'll give full report in 1-2 weeks, after
> >>> put in VM in it, faster internet to it to handle VM.
> >>> And built websites with it.
> >>> Geg
> >>
> >> What's the link between installing a VM and the description of your laptop 
> >> ?
> >>
> >> Also, Macbook in x86 booting from BIOS ?
> >>
> >> Macbook use either UEFI for the Intel ones or OpenBoot for the older ones.
> >>
> >> No such thing as a BIOS on a MacBook.
> >>
> >> Sorry but your message is everything except easy to understand.
> >>
> >> If you are installing Linux in a VM on your laptop then you should also
> >> describe what type of VM you are using and the specifications. Your
> >> Friend Linu[s] should have taught you this. Also, he should teach you that
> >> a faster internet won't make your VM faster.
> >>
> >> Maybe you could either answer a message or include in this one, what
> >> reason are you writing this ?
> >>
> >> As it may sound obvious for yourself, it's not necessarily for others.
> >> Plus it's not much of use for someone who'd like into to the archive
> >> looking for answer.
> >>
> >> If I do get a idea of why you are writing this here, it's not the case
> >> for other people around.
> > 
> > One might assume from
> > 
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/07/msg01033.html
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/07/msg01167.html
> > 
> > that these deal with the same machine, and that Gunnar hasn't quite
> > mastered the technique of threading, but is keen to add to the
> > list of tested hardware.
> > 
> One doesn't always read all the messages and only uses the subject to
> get a idea.
> 
> Now is he saying his machine can WORK with Debian or is this related to
> the message I had with him earlier about a problem with his system NOT
> WORKING and CRASHING on update, requiring CLEAN REINSTALL.
> 
> And this is the part that would be nice to know...
> 
> Got it ?

Of course I haven't. I see scattered posts (only some) from Gunnar
that don't seem to make a lot of sense, followed up by discussion and
argument, much of which could be avoided by getting some facts into
the posts. Hence my suggestion (snipped) to run

$ ls /sys/firmware/
$ uname -a
$ grep address /proc/cpuinfo

and clarify what type of machine (machines?) is being discussed.
Perhaps it's reckless not to have suggested a command proving
it's a Debian system.

In all of Gunnar's posts, I think I have only seen one report of actual
output posted, and I have no idea what the origin of that was, viz:

  # UNCONFIGURED FSTAB FOR BASE SYSTEM
  overlay / overlay rw 0 0
  tmpfs /tmp tmpfs nosuid,nodev 0 0
  /dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1 EXT2 nosuid,nodev,nofail,x-gvfs-show 0 0
  /dev/sda3 /mnt/sda3 EXT2 nosuid,nodev,nofail,x-gvfs-show,noauto,x-udisks-auth 
0 0
  /dev/sda2 none swap sw,x-udisks-auth,noauto 0 0

Cheers,
David.

Re: suppress interactive messages at upgrade

[Hans]

Hi Dan, Hi Ian,

I thought about unattended-upgraded, but this is not what really want. My 
intention is more, to update using a script with apt and using "-y" tags. This 
is working well, instead of these two little issues. One I could solve 
meanwhile (ncurses question with needrestart), the other one apppears only, 
when a new kernel is installed.

Sure, I can set DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive, but then I might miss 
something.

I know, both options will work, and might solve my problem, but I want to 
avoid, to run in new issues.

But I will test both solutions you told of, and if there are other 
suggestions, I will have a look at them as well. 

Thanks for your help!

Best

Hans  

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Re: suppress interactive messages at upgrade

[Jim Popovitch]

On Thu, 2021-07-29 at 20:25 +0300, IL Ka wrote:
> > 
> > is there a more clever way than running aptitude/apt-get with the
> > tags "-yq", 
> > when I want to suppress interactive messages at upgrade?
> > 
> > 
> 
> try 
> sudo DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive apt-get -yq install [packagename]
> 

I use:

export LANG=C; export DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive; 
  apt-get -qq update && 
  apt-get -qq -y upgrade -o=Dpkg::Use-Pty=0


hth,

-Jim P.

Re: suppress interactive messages at upgrade

[IL Ka]

>
>
> is there a more clever way than running aptitude/apt-get with the tags
> "-yq",
> when I want to suppress interactive messages at upgrade?
>
> try
sudo DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive apt-get -yq install [packagename]

Re: suppress interactive messages at upgrade

[Dan Ritter]

Hans wrote: 
> Hi folks,
> 
> is there a more clever way than running aptitude/apt-get with the tags "-yq", 
> when I want to suppress interactive messages at upgrade?
> 
> (The problem: I still get an ncurses warning, that the actual kernel got 
> updated and the old video module (it is the nvidia kernel module) is still 
> loaded.). 
> 
> Generally I am not interesting in warnings, only in crashs. 

Have you considered running apticron or configuring
unattended-upgrades?

Those will, depending on your config choices:

- download updates and tell you about them in email, or
- download updates, apply them, and tell you about them in
  email, or
- download updates, apply them, reboot the system if necessary,
  and tell you about it in email

-dsr-

suppress interactive messages at upgrade

[Hans]

Hi folks,

is there a more clever way than running aptitude/apt-get with the tags "-yq", 
when I want to suppress interactive messages at upgrade?

(The problem: I still get an ncurses warning, that the actual kernel got 
updated and the old video module (it is the nvidia kernel module) is still 
loaded.). 

Generally I am not interesting in warnings, only in crashs. 

Best

Hans

  

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Re: sync sync, was Re: Problem with crash post-install

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-29 7:35 a.m., Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
>>> While I've read about issuing sync *twice* with the explanation
>>> that sysadmins are a supersticious bunch
> 
> Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>> I'm really asking why do it 3 time.
>> In case it came back to the prompt *before* finishing to do it's job ?
> 
> I dimly remember that it was part of the shutdown procedure of one of
> the earliest Unix machines which i met. IBM RT, Apollo DN3000, microVAX ... ?
> The shutdown spell was something like
> 
Sorry, I'm too young for IBM RT, HP Apollo DN3000 or any type of VAX
(except in a emulator).
>   sync ; sync ; halt
> 
> Googling "sync halt" leads me to an interesting theory at
>   https://bsdimp.blogspot.com/2020/07/when-unix-learned-to-reboot2.html
> 
> According to section "That sync; sync; sync Thing..." two bugs of early
> systems' sync existed (one explored by the blog's author, one as rumor):
> 
> 1: The sync system call returned without waiting.
>Workaround:
>Keep the human operator busy while the machine is still not done with
>flushing buffers. E.g. prescribe to type three lines of "sync" before
>typing "halt".
> 
> 2: Only the first sync call returned early, whereas the second sync
>properly blocked until flushing was done.
>That seems to be the origin of my memory.
> 
> 
Thanks for this bit of history :)
> Have a nice day :)
> 
> Thomas
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Problem with crash post-install [ was: Update or reinstall ]

[Marco Möller]

On 29.07.21 12:52, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

Hi,

On 2021-07-29 6:48 a.m., to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 12:29:16PM +0200, Marco Möller wrote:


On 29.07.21 10:25, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

Hi,
(...)
Gunnar  ( Gunnar Gervin  ) is having problem with
his laptop.
The system crashes post-update.

He need to do clean install every time.
And this is probably time consuming for him.

If other user has some hints...



[...] three times run a "sudo sync" [...]


While I've read about issuing sync *twice* with the explanation
that sysadmins are a supersticious bunch [1], the sudo is most
definitely unnecessary.

I think the running twice is also a bit of a too much extra.

I'm really asking why do it 3 time.
In case it came back to the prompt *before* finishing to do it's job ?
(...)
Misunderstanding: I wanted to suggest to run a "sudo sync" (1) before 
and (2) after the update and (3) before the system shutdown, in order to 
exclude that data wasn't fully written to disk at possible critical 
moments. This in total are three different situations when I suggest to 
run the sync command, and in all this three different situations it 
shall be run, thus running it three times (in total three times, not 
triple repeated in one of the situations).
By the way, running it as "sudo" is not harming and makes sure that 
everything is written to disk without having to know if the sync command 
would behave different with and without the sudo. The point is, you want 
to debug a situation, you want to find out why an update is failing so 
severely and not reported to fail like this elsewhere, and sudo will not 
harm for this purpose while not using sudo could have left doubts if 
really all is written to disk - pragmatically focusing on problem 
solving without maybe producing more problems and without loosing time 
to construct a most elegant version of problem solving. Just get the 
problem solved!

I am curious to read if the "sudo sync" runs solved the update problem.
Good Luck! Marco.

Re: Problem with crash post-install [ was: Update or reinstall ]

[songbird]

Dan Ritter wrote:
...
> There are situations in which it can take much longer than a few
> seconds. They require a large amount of data to write and a slow
> storage mechanism.
>
> Specific example: recursive copying of music files to my USB-2
> attached music player, which has an actual write speed of about
> 20 MB per second. The cp -r or rsync of a few gigabytes can
> return well before the data is actually written.

  i have a pretty large io buffer so when i copy some big files
and then sync it may take as long as 30 or more seconds even 
with a decent SSD.


  songbird

Re: Problema de suspensión con i3-wm

[Camaleón]

El 2021-07-29 a las 14:15 +0200, Miguel Ángel Sánchez escribió:

> Buenas tardes, tengo un problema con la suspensión desde i3-wm.
> 
> Tengo un portátil HP 15-bw012ns, con gpu amd y acabo de hacer una
> instalación limpia en un SSD de Debian buster netinstall non-free. No
> escojo Entorno de escritorio Debian en tasksel.
> 
> Una vez terminado desde tty1 instalo:
> xorg xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu firmware-amd-graphics i3-wm i3status lightdm
> (Incluyo los paquetes de amd porque si no Xorg no me arranca)

(...)

> Sin embargo en el mismo ordenador tengo en un HDD una partición con Linux
> Mint Cinnamon e i3-wm que nunca me ha dado fallo a la hora de arrancar
> desde estado de suspensión. ¿Puede haber algún problema relacionado con
> usar un ssd? ¿Con los driver no libres? ¿Puede que se solucione con los
> paquetes más recientes de bullseye?

(...)

Te indico algunas ideas que te pueden servir:

1. Buscar por problemas similares en ese gestor de ventanas, porque si 
dices que no te pasa con Cinnamon y cuando tienes instalados un buen 
puñado de paquetes relacionado con los entornos de escritorio, quizá el 
problema se deba a que te falte algo por instalar.

https://www.google.com/search?q=i3-wm+suspension+issues

2. Revisa los registros, que siempre te darán alguna pista. En la wiki 
de Archlinux¹ apuntan a esta página:

https://01.org/blogs/rzhang/2015/best-practice-debug-linux-suspend/hibernate-issues

3. Sí, los drivers de la gráfica propietarios (cualquier driver 
cerrado) te puede causar problemas al restaurar, pero antes de ponerte 
a cambiar entre controladores libres y cerrados (que es un dolor de 
cabeza) yo probaría antes con otras cosas.

4. Quizá tengas instalado y habilitado el bloqueo de pantalla, como 
dices. Si es así, prueba a deactivarlo para ver si retorna de la 
suspensión correctamente.

https://i3wm.org/i3lock/

Me decanto porque hayas instalado un sistema tan mínimo (ojo, que yo hago 
lo mismo) que te falte algún paquete para que funcione correctamente la 
suspensión o hibernación.

¹ 
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Power_management/Suspend_and_hibernate#Suspend/hibernate_does_not_work,_or_does_not_work_consistently

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón 

Problema de suspensión con i3-wm

[Miguel Ángel Sánchez]

Buenas tardes, tengo un problema con la suspensión desde i3-wm.

Tengo un portátil HP 15-bw012ns, con gpu amd y acabo de hacer una
instalación limpia en un SSD de Debian buster netinstall non-free. No
escojo Entorno de escritorio Debian en tasksel.

Una vez terminado desde tty1 instalo:
xorg xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu firmware-amd-graphics i3-wm i3status lightdm
(Incluyo los paquetes de amd porque si no Xorg no me arranca)

Desde lightdm inicio i3 y uso una configuración nueva. Todo funciona
correctamente hasta que cierro la tapa para entrar en suspensión y la
vuelvo a abrir. (Ocurre igual si uso systemctl suspend)

Desde ese momento la pantalla del escritorio parece congelada y sólo puedo
ver el movimiento del cursor aunque sé que el escritorio está funcionando y
reacciona correctamente a mis atajos de teclado y demás.
Si cambio a tty1 y vuelvo a xorg (tty7) la imagen de la pantalla se
actualiza al estado real actual aunque después sigue sin actualizarse.

Por otro lado, instalo 'cinnamon' y lo selecciono en lightdm.
Al volver de una suspensión la pantalla ocurre lo mismo pero al escribir mi
contraseña y pulsar intro veo que aparece y se cierra el bloqueo de
pantalla de cinnamon y vuelve a funcionar todo.
Si deshabilito el bloqueo de salvapantallas en cinnamon el ordenador vuelve
directamente de la suspensión sin problema. Sin embargo en i3 sigue sin
funcionar.

Esto me da a pensar que hay un problema con algún salvapantallas por
defecto si hay alguno (relacionado con xscreensaver?), con lightdm, xorg o
algo similar.

He mirado los logs de i3-wm y no veo ningún error/warning. Puedo recuperar
el ordenador matando lightdm, y xorg consecuentemente.
No he mirado los logs de xorg pero no sé qué buscar exactamente.

Sin embargo en el mismo ordenador tengo en un HDD una partición con Linux
Mint Cinnamon e i3-wm que nunca me ha dado fallo a la hora de arrancar
desde estado de suspensión. ¿Puede haber algún problema relacionado con
usar un ssd? ¿Con los driver no libres? ¿Puede que se solucione con los
paquetes más recientes de bullseye?

Tanto en Debian como LM uso el kernel '4.19.0-17-amd64'. En Debian tengo
una versión un poco más reciente de 'xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu' aunque
también se queja de que me faltan algunos binarios de vega20.

Un saludo, gracias.

Re: Problem with crash post-install [ was: Update or reinstall ]

[Dan Ritter]

Greg Wooledge wrote: 
>  which says:
> 
>   On Linux, sync is only guaranteed to schedule the dirty blocks for
>   writing; it can actually take a short time before all the blocks are
>   finally written. The reboot(8) and halt(8) commands take this into
>   account by sleeping for a few seconds after calling sync(2).

There are situations in which it can take much longer than a few
seconds. They require a large amount of data to write and a slow
storage mechanism.

Specific example: recursive copying of music files to my USB-2
attached music player, which has an actual write speed of about
20 MB per second. The cp -r or rsync of a few gigabytes can
return well before the data is actually written.

-dsr-

Re: Problem with crash post-install [ was: Update or reinstall ]

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 06:52:37AM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> As far as I know, sync doesn't work in the background !

On many systems, it does.  I can't even find a clear statement in the
bullseye sync(1) man page of whether it does or not.

The bullseye sync(1) comes from GNU coreutils 8.32.

Googling turns up a different sync(8) page,
 which says:

  On Linux, sync is only guaranteed to schedule the dirty blocks for
  writing; it can actually take a short time before all the blocks are
  finally written. The reboot(8) and halt(8) commands take this into
  account by sleeping for a few seconds after calling sync(2).

That man page claims to be from fileutils-4.0.

On bullseye, sync(2) says:

   According to the standard specification  (e.g.,  POSIX.1-2001),  sync()
   schedules the writes, but may return before the actual writing is done.
   However Linux waits for I/O completions, and thus  sync()  or  syncfs()
   provide the same guarantees as fsync() called on every file in the sys‐
   tem or filesystem respectively.

So, even on Linux systems, it would appear the behavior has varied
over time.  On non-Linux systems, I would expect a high probability
that the sync(8) or sync(1) command returns immediately, without
waiting for the synchronization to complete.

sync sync, was Re: Problem with crash post-install

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > While I've read about issuing sync *twice* with the explanation
> > that sysadmins are a supersticious bunch

Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> I'm really asking why do it 3 time.
> In case it came back to the prompt *before* finishing to do it's job ?

I dimly remember that it was part of the shutdown procedure of one of
the earliest Unix machines which i met. IBM RT, Apollo DN3000, microVAX ... ?
The shutdown spell was something like

  sync ; sync ; halt

Googling "sync halt" leads me to an interesting theory at
  https://bsdimp.blogspot.com/2020/07/when-unix-learned-to-reboot2.html

According to section "That sync; sync; sync Thing..." two bugs of early
systems' sync existed (one explored by the blog's author, one as rumor):

1: The sync system call returned without waiting.
   Workaround:
   Keep the human operator busy while the machine is still not done with
   flushing buffers. E.g. prescribe to type three lines of "sync" before
   typing "halt".

2: Only the first sync call returned early, whereas the second sync
   properly blocked until flushing was done.
   That seems to be the origin of my memory.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Problem with crash post-install [ was: Update or reinstall ]

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-29 6:48 a.m., to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 12:29:16PM +0200, Marco Möller wrote:
>>
>> On 29.07.21 10:25, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> (...)
>>> Gunnar  ( Gunnar Gervin  ) is having problem with
>>> his laptop.
>>> The system crashes post-update.
>>>
>>> He need to do clean install every time.
>>> And this is probably time consuming for him.
>>>
>>> If other user has some hints...
> 
>> [...] three times run a "sudo sync" [...]
> 
> While I've read about issuing sync *twice* with the explanation
> that sysadmins are a supersticious bunch [1], the sudo is most
> definitely unnecessary.
I think the running twice is also a bit of a too much extra.

I'm really asking why do it 3 time.
In case it came back to the prompt *before* finishing to do it's job ?

As far as I know, sync doesn't work in the background !
> 
> The important part is actually /waiting/ for sync to "come back".
> Then you can assume that pending writes are committed.
> 
That's a fact
> Cheers
> [1] A dash of superstition might even be beneficial in that
>kind of job.
>  - t
> 
This reassure me that I ain't the only one who find it a bit frivolous
to run sync 3 time in a row. This is not like making love, where there's
much pleasure to do so once after another.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Problem with crash post-install [ was: Update or reinstall ]

[tomas]

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 12:29:16PM +0200, Marco Möller wrote:
> 
> On 29.07.21 10:25, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> >Hi,
> >(...)
> >Gunnar  ( Gunnar Gervin  ) is having problem with
> >his laptop.
> >The system crashes post-update.
> >
> >He need to do clean install every time.
> >And this is probably time consuming for him.
> >
> >If other user has some hints...

> [...] three times run a "sudo sync" [...]

While I've read about issuing sync *twice* with the explanation
that sysadmins are a supersticious bunch [1], the sudo is most
definitely unnecessary.

The important part is actually /waiting/ for sync to "come back".
Then you can assume that pending writes are committed.

Cheers
[1] A dash of superstition might even be beneficial in that
   kind of job.
 - t


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Re: Problem with crash post-install [ was: Update or reinstall ]

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-29 6:29 a.m., Marco Möller wrote:
> 
> On 29.07.21 10:25, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>> Hi,
>> (...)
>> Gunnar  ( Gunnar Gervin  ) is having problem with
>> his laptop.
>> The system crashes post-update.
>>
>> He need to do clean install every time.
>> And this is probably time consuming for him.
>>
>> If other user has some hints...
> 
> Without having all the mail thread available and not being able to see
> what suggestions and tests have already been done, my first idea and
> suggestion would be to care to three times run a "sudo sync" (1) before
> and (2) after the update and (3) before the system shutdown, in order to
> exclude that data wasn't fully written to disk at possible critical
> moments. If this would help, then investigations could accordingly
> continue to concentrate on related configurations.
> Good Luck! Marco.
> 
There's no other mail thread related to this...
Only the original user (Gunnar) who said to me that I shall do clean
install on updates because his system crashes if he tries to updates.

So I told him that this was painstaking and time consuming, that backups
are indeed a good thing but that you shouldn't need to reinstall every
time you update.

So I've suggested him that he post the system configuration onto the
mailing system so we may help him out (fellow user on the list).

Now considering the way he described his computer installation, I
believe it may be much more complex to solve whatever problem it is than
trying to go take a trip to the planet Mars, no, wait, Jupiter would be
closer to the efforts needed.

In his description he mentions waiting for a better Internet connection
so his virtual machine will run faster or something alike that I don't
quite understand.

So maybe he's running under a VM.
Also, said to be running a Macbook with a BIOS and that is totally
strange to myself...

So the best thing to do (I believe) would be...

I'd start by asking him to use hwinfo... and send a dump.

Steps :
Install package hwinfo
Run hwinfo --all --log laptop.log
Copy the content of laptop.log into your message.
You can use gedit or geany to open the file.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

cc: Gunnar Gervin



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Re: Problem with crash post-install [ was: Update or reinstall ]

[Marco Möller]

On 29.07.21 10:25, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

Hi,
(...)
Gunnar  ( Gunnar Gervin  ) is having problem with
his laptop.
The system crashes post-update.

He need to do clean install every time.
And this is probably time consuming for him.

If other user has some hints...


Without having all the mail thread available and not being able to see 
what suggestions and tests have already been done, my first idea and 
suggestion would be to care to three times run a "sudo sync" (1) before 
and (2) after the update and (3) before the system shutdown, in order to 
exclude that data wasn't fully written to disk at possible critical 
moments. If this would help, then investigations could accordingly 
continue to concentrate on related configurations.

Good Luck! Marco.

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Anssi Saari]

Andrey Ponomarenko  writes:

> LiveCDs for quick testing:
> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-live-builds/amd64/iso-hybrid/

Well, are these images bootable via Grub directly and if so then what
parameters are needed? Making testing easy eases testing...

Re: Update or reinstall

[tomas]

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 04:22:32AM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 2021-07-29 3:26 a.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote:
> > A bottle in ocean, thx, poetic..
> > 
> It make it easier for other to read if you post your answer thru the reply.

[...]

> As I got told many time, "Please stop top posting".

Definitely. Top posting kind of works when there are two "endpoints"
to the mail (i.e. private back-and-forth between two parties). 

In a mailing list it doesn't work *at all*.

Cheers
 - t


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Re: Debmirror

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 06:11:25AM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

On 2021-07-27 10:45 a.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote:

Just a Linux advice/s I read 10years ago + -.

Time goes by and things change.
Advice from 10 years ago can even be bad when applied today.


This messages is threaded with your other "Debmirror" messages, but
seems to be a reply to Gunnar on an unrelated topic. I can't see a
message from Gunnar to your "Debmirror" thread. Perhaps he mailed you
privately? In which case: it's bad form to post somebody's private mail
to a list.



--
Please do not CC me for listmail.

  Jonathan Dowland
✎j...@debian.org
   https://jmtd.net

Problem with crash post-install [ was: Update or reinstall ]

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-29 3:25 a.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote:
> The *link* is your request of it.
> Geg
> 
> On Thu, 29 Jul 2021, 00:25 Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside,
> mailto:deb...@polynamaude.com>> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On 2021-07-28 3:16 p.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote:
> > It is a Toshiba 160 gb hd in a 14 years old Macbook i386 ❤️/x86 32 b
> > booting from Bios not uefi. I'll give full report in 1-2 weeks, after
> > put in VM in it, faster internet to it to handle VM.
> > And built websites with it.
> > Geg
> 
Gunnar  ( Gunnar Gervin  ) is having problem with
his laptop.
The system crashes post-update.

He need to do clean install every time.
And this is probably time consuming for him.

If other user has some hints...

> What's the link between installing a VM and the description of your
> laptop ?
> 
> Also, Macbook in x86 booting from BIOS ?
> 
> Macbook use either UEFI for the Intel ones or OpenBoot for the older
> ones.
> 
> No such thing as a BIOS on a MacBook.
> 
> Sorry but your message is everything except easy to understand.
> 
> If you are installing Linux in a VM on your laptop then you should also
> describe what type of VM you are using and the specifications. Your
> Friend Linux should have taught you this. Also, he should teach you that
> a faster internet won't make your VM faster.
> 
> Maybe you could either answer a message or include in this one, what
> reason are you writing this ?
> 
> As it may sound obvious for yourself, it's not necessarily for others.
> Plus it's not much of use for someone who'd like into to the archive
> looking for answer.
> 
> If I do get a idea of why you are writing this here, it's not the case
> for other people around.
> 
> Same apply for your message regarding Pine laptop.
> 
> Because now those two message are like a bottle in the ocean, not linked
> to anything.
> 
> -- 
> Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
> -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Update or reinstall

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-29 3:26 a.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote:
> A bottle in ocean, thx, poetic..
> 
It make it easier for other to read if you post your answer thru the reply.

When you just answer in the top of the message, it gets hard to see
where it applies, even more if there's more than one question in the
message.

As I got told many time, "Please stop top posting".

First time I was told such a thing, it kind of made me feel like some
person here are pretty stiff. But as I've used forums of this type more
and more, I"ve understood the benefits.


-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Update or reinstall

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-29 12:58 a.m., David Wright wrote:
> On Wed 28 Jul 2021 at 17:25:09 (-0400), Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>> On 2021-07-28 3:16 p.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote:
>>> It is a Toshiba 160 gb hd in a 14 years old Macbook i386 ❤️/x86 32 b
>>> booting from Bios not uefi. I'll give full report in 1-2 weeks, after
>>> put in VM in it, faster internet to it to handle VM.
>>> And built websites with it.
>>> Geg
>>
>> What's the link between installing a VM and the description of your laptop ?
>>
>> Also, Macbook in x86 booting from BIOS ?
>>
>> Macbook use either UEFI for the Intel ones or OpenBoot for the older ones.
>>
>> No such thing as a BIOS on a MacBook.
>>
>> Sorry but your message is everything except easy to understand.
>>
>> If you are installing Linux in a VM on your laptop then you should also
>> describe what type of VM you are using and the specifications. Your
>> Friend Linu[s] should have taught you this. Also, he should teach you that
>> a faster internet won't make your VM faster.
>>
>> Maybe you could either answer a message or include in this one, what
>> reason are you writing this ?
>>
>> As it may sound obvious for yourself, it's not necessarily for others.
>> Plus it's not much of use for someone who'd like into to the archive
>> looking for answer.
>>
>> If I do get a idea of why you are writing this here, it's not the case
>> for other people around.
> 
> One might assume from
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/07/msg01033.html
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/07/msg01167.html
> 
> that these deal with the same machine, and that Gunnar hasn't quite
> mastered the technique of threading, but is keen to add to the
> list of tested hardware.
> 
One doesn't always read all the messages and only uses the subject to
get a idea.

Now is he saying his machine can WORK with Debian or is this related to
the message I had with him earlier about a problem with his system NOT
WORKING and CRASHING on update, requiring CLEAN REINSTALL.

And this is the part that would be nice to know...

Got it ?

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Debmirror

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi David,

On 2021-07-29 12:58 a.m., David Wright wrote:
> On Sun 25 Jul 2021 at 09:37:14 (-0400), Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>>> On Sun, 25 Jul 2021, 04:41 Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>>> On 2021-07-24 9:33 p.m., David Wright wrote:
>>> > On Sat 24 Jul 2021 at 19:52:36 (-0400), Polyna-Maude 
>>> Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>>> >> Here are the message I get after my debmirror when I do apt-get 
>>> update
>>> >>
>>> >> Err:31 file:/mnt/mirror/debian buster-updates/main amd64 Contents  
>>> (deb)
>>> >>   File not found -
>>> >> /mnt/mirror/debian/dists/buster-updates/main/Contents-amd64 (2: No 
>>> such
>>> >> file or directory)
>>> >> Reading package lists... Done
>>> >> E: Failed to fetch
>>> >> file:/mnt/mirror/debian/dists/buster/main/Contents-amd64  File not 
>>> found
>>> >> - /mnt/mirror/debian/dists/buster/main/Contents-amd64 (2: No such 
>>> file
>>> >> or directory)
>>> >> E: Failed to fetch
>>> >> file:/mnt/mirror/debian/dists/buster-updates/main/Contents-amd64 File
>>> >> not found - 
>>> /mnt/mirror/debian/dists/buster-updates/main/Contents-amd64
>>> >> (2: No such file or directory)
>>> >>
>>> >> The command I used for creating the mirror is
>>> >>
>>> >> debmirror --all --progress --verbose --method=http
>>> >> --dist=buster,buster-updates,buster-backports
>>> >> --section=main,contrib,non-free --arch=amd64,i386 --rsync-extra=none
>>> >> --source --i18n --keyring 
>>> /usr/share/keyrings/debian-archive-keyring.gpg
>>> >> --root=debian --host=debian.mirror.iweb.ca 
>>>  /mnt/mirror/debian
>>> >>
>>> >> Got idea ?
>>> >
>>> > --getcontents ?
>>> >
>>> Giving this one a try
>>>
>> I'm not sure you have close to a clue what my problem is.
>> Because when I simply change my repository to the usual Debian one, I
>> can do my apt cache update properly.
> 
> and then
> 
> On Mon 26 Jul 2021 at 01:12:14 (-0400), Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>
> --getcontents ?
>
 Giving this one a try


>>> Gave this one a try and it worked.
> 
> Difficult to keep up.
> 
Difficult to keep up ?
I'll give you a hint...
--getcontents = option for debmirror

And maybe I shall have only sent this message to the person who told me
to try --getcontents. Only wanted to say thanks for the help.
>>> Next step...
>>> I'm setting up a Debian mirror (don't know if it will be very useful
>>> because I already have one nearby (iweb.ca)...
>>>
>>> But as I'm only carrying Buster and Bullseye (possibly the next testing
>>> too).
>>>
>> With only the security update mirror.
>> Please don't write me (again) it's bad to create a local copy of
>> security-update.
>>
>> Now getting this problem :
>>
>> E: The repository 'file:/mnt/mirror/security-debian buster/updates
>> Release' does not have a Release file.
>> N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is
>> therefore disabled by default.
> 
> Just copy the files *Release* from the website with wget?
> (In no way condoning what you are attempting to do.)
> 
Yes, just copy the *Release* file.

But doing things like trained monkey doesn't go nowhere. There's a
reason why it did work for the debian.org repository and not the
security updates.

First thing is understanding why, so that the choice I'll make will be
based on fact to support them. Not based on "this seem like working".

And it's related to the way the repository is maintained.

So I went with using aptly to create a local repository, that I sign
with my own key. This way, I keep it secure.

One reason it is recommended not to make local copy of security-updates
is because the repository is not signed. So it would be easy to
compromise. As a fact, the Release file ain't present itself.

But by making my own repository for security update and signing, I did
get a safe local copy.

> Cheers,
> David.
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: how best to do

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 28 July 2021 23:32:11 Keith Bainbridge wrote:

> On 29/7/21 02:30, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > and mount where you will.
>
> G'day Gene
>
> I make back-up disks at fstab options
> noauto,noexec
>
> and mount/unmount as part of the cron script.  makes them 'less
> visible' to an uninvited visitor.
>
> Also, I run the back-up as root

I considered that when I started using amanda 20+ years ago, but have 
thanks to dd-wrt in my router(s) I have never had the unwanted visitor. 
This does have some exposure because this is also my web server, but I 
do keep iptables up to date on blocking the bots that burn up my dsl 
limited upload bandwidth mirroring my site. IMO, amanda's security model 
is better than root. 

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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