date:20220914

Hello,

There are some devices that when present will cause the "coldplug all devices"
stage at boot to fail. On a normally installed system only an error is reported
in the journal and logs during boot but the system boots normally and the
device also functions normally. But on debian installer media such as netinst
or the Debian live installer images, this failure causes a crash and prevents
users with such devices from being able to run the debian installer from those
installer media.

This was reported as a bug over a year and a half ago on BTS, and the bug
is currently assigned to linux, that is, the Debian Linux Kernel Team. The
problem has also been documented on the Debian installation reports
pseudo package. One of the Debian kernel developers suggested a solution
of increasing the uevent buffer in the kernel from 2k to 4k, and tests showed
that the patch of increasing the buffer in the kernel solved the coldplug all
devices problem.

That bug of too small a buffer size is in the upstream part of the Linux kernel,
so the bug should probably be forwarded to the Linux kernel, and the person
who reported the bug (not me) did report the bug to the Linux kernel, as well
as to the Debian BTS. But neither Debian nor the Linux kernel has acted on the
bug report to try to fix it, except for the suggestion that a Debian kernel
developer made to increase the uevent buffer size in the kernel over a year
ago and another suggestion from another Debian maintainer or developer who
gave me advice on how to document the problem in the installer so the
problem could be included on the debian installer errata page, which is
why I made the installation report. But the debian installer errata page
also was never updated even though I made that installation report over
six months ago:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1005308
https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/debian-installer/#errata

I also tested a current Fedora Workstation 36 installation in the same
computing environment, which is a virtual environment, and it exhibited
some of the same symptoms that are fixed by the increase of the uevent
buffer in the kernel, but on Fedora at the "coldplug all devices" stage
during boot, the device that was creating data too big for the uevent buffer
in the kernel on both Fedora and Debian did not cause an error message
to be printed to the journal and boot logs on Fedora and also on Fedora the
live and netinst images do not crash, but on Debian these negative things do
happen.

Finally, another workaround to make the Debian live image or the Debian netinst
image bootable with the problematic device was to edit the udev startup script
on the installer image (I think it was in the initrd) to keep it from causing 
the
catastrophic crash when the "coldplug all devices" command is executed, which
is actually done, IIUC, by the udevadm executable file.

So my question is about udevadm which I think is the command that is executed
during boot to coldplug all devices: Is there a way to write the udev rules
configuration files so that a particular kind of device that perhaps is not 
really
what I would call "udev-aware" could be excluded from the set of devices that
are coldplugged at boot? I am only asking here in case someone knows the answer
and is willing to tell me, but if no one here can answer my question I will 
probably
be able to figure it out by examining the differences between the Fedora and
Debian udev rules for the various kinds of devices. I suspect that Fedora wrote
its udev rules so such devices that are not really the kind of devices that 
need to
be udev-aware and that cause problems or error messages are excluded from
the "coldplug all devices" stage of boot.

For reference, I am talking about Bug #983357 which is the primary
bug report:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=983357

Thanks in advance for any tips from the udev experts.

Kind regards,

Chuck

Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)

2022-09-14 Thread Jude DaShiell





Jude 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Wed, 14 Sep 2022, Steve McIntyre wrote:

> Stefan wrote:
> In article  you 
> write:
> >> the interest of the user. These "volunteers" obviously have other,
> >> possibly malicious, interests if they prove themselves unwilling to
> >> apply fixes to bugs that are reported to them.
> >
> >I think there's a confusion here: these volunteers will also have
> >"other, possibly malicious, interests" even if they are willing/eager
> >to apply fixes to bugs that are reported to them.
> >
> >Same goes for people you pay, so it's not specific to volunteers.
> >And of course it's also not specific to a particular kind of license.
>
> Thanks Stefan, it's great to see that some people understand the
> issues.
>
> I'll be brutally honest: being accused of "possibly malicious"
> unwilligness is *not* a great way to convince overstretched volunteers
> to spend their time on issues.
>
>
I think an appropriate analogy for proprietary versus open source software
is the American Electoral College compared to The American General
Election.  The difference in the number of minds brought to apply to each
I think parallels proprietary versus open source software and whatever
effects attach to both.  Open source additionally has the internet which
varies in support quality but is far larger than any proprietary
operation.

Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)

On 9/14/2022 11:01 PM, Maude Summerside wrote:
>
> On 2022-09-14 21:45, Michael Stone wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 11:16:00PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> >> I'll be brutally honest: being accused of "possibly malicious"
> >> unwilligness is *not* a great way to convince overstretched volunteers
> >> to spend their time on issues.
> > 
> > Especially when it's an ongoing pattern of discourse.
> > 
>
> I think there's many barrier that discourage people from wanting to
> contribute to many project. I feel some developer use the community as
> unpaid beta tester but don't go further into accepting contribution.
>
> For sure, having managed some project, I have to say that it's hard to
> accept contribution that will add new functions to as software when
> these come from a unknown contributor. Not because of being scared of
> malicious intent (unless the person is really paranoid but that's
> another story). Simply because adding a new function means having to
> support it's ongoing development and there's no guarantee that the
> contributor will do so. Same goes on for code contributed that needs
> refactoring, that are badly documented, etc. But all this need some good
> social behavior from the project owner/manager.

As a user of the Debian software and a user of the BTS, I am discouraged not
because new contributions or functions are being rejected, but because bugs
are not being fixed. Those are two very different things. Maybe it's just too 
hard
for volunteers to fix the bugs and make Debian better, and maybe we need to
pay the volunteers so they are not volunteers anymore and will be motivated
to actually fix the Debian software. The fact that Debian is created by 
volunteers
is probably one of the really big disadvantages of Debian software.

Best regards,

Chuck

Re: drive controller Q?


On 9/14/22 19:50, David Christensen wrote:

On 9/14/22 11:40, gene heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

Does anyone have experience with this controller card?

https://www.newegg.com/p/14G-04YB-3?Item=9SIB2XHHUE3880

Specifically, whats my chances of moving an existing software 
raid10's 4 Samsung 1T's to it,
and then attaching 4 more 2T drives to it too, to create a separate 
4T raid-10 for amanda?


Without any data loss if possible?

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.



Backup the contents of the 4 @ 1 TB RAID before making any changes; 
just in case.


Unforch, until I get another raid-10 going, I have nothing big enough to 
back it up to.

228G currently used.
I currently have 1 extra 1T Samsung and an empty sata socket though.


What are the makes and model numbers of your computer, motherboard, 
chassis(es), drive rack(s), and disk drives?



That list would exceed the listservers limits. Asus high end mobo, 32G dram


Please confirm that you are using Linux md for software RAID.

yes.




What other expansion cards will be connected to the computer at the 
same time as the new HBA?



What other drives will be connected to the new HBA?


AIUI Linux md(4)/ mdadm(8) marks block devices when they are added 
into an array, and is able to find them if and when the device node 
changes.  So, shutting down, moving the 4 @ 1 TB drives to the new 
HBA, and booting should "just work".



As others have mentioned, a PCIe 2.0 1x connection (500 MB/s) may 
become a bottleneck for intensive RAID operations, such as copying the 
4 @ 1 TB RAID10 to the 4 @ 2 TB RAID10, scrubbing a RAID, replacing/ 
resilvering RAID drives, etc..  I expect Amanda will be limited by HDD 
seek time and/or Gigabit Ethernet, not by PCIe 2.0 1x bandwidth.


That would probably bother me eventually. Amanda would need 5 drives, 
cuz it uses a
dedicated holding disk and completes the DLE to it, before moving the 
completed DLE
to the vtape. A decided advantage in terms of preventing a real tape 
from being shoe
shined to death, but relatively unimportant in this case. I had amanda 
backing up my
whole local network until those two seagates puked and choked to death 
on it. But with
3d printers, I now have added 2 rock64's and killed one old Dell with a 
lightning strike since.


That disk can co-exist on the mobo's ports.  And has, its still there in 
fact. Unmounted, sdb.

Shows up in a blkid scan.

Let me acquire the drives and we can continue this later.

Thanks David

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page

Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)

On 2022-09-14 21:45, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 11:16:00PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>> I'll be brutally honest: being accused of "possibly malicious"
>> unwilligness is *not* a great way to convince overstretched volunteers
>> to spend their time on issues.
> 
> Especially when it's an ongoing pattern of discourse.
> 

I think there's many barrier that discourage people from wanting to
contribute to many project. I feel some developer use the community as
unpaid beta tester but don't go further into accepting contribution.

For sure, having managed some project, I have to say that it's hard to
accept contribution that will add new functions to as software when
these come from a unknown contributor. Not because of being scared of
malicious intent (unless the person is really paranoid but that's
another story). Simply because adding a new function means having to
support it's ongoing development and there's no guarantee that the
contributor will do so. Same goes on for code contributed that needs
refactoring, that are badly documented, etc. But all this need some good
social behavior from the project owner/manager.

There's people who just think "I've done something free if people are
happy they use it, if they ain't they continue their journey". Those
don't accept criticism. But that's all part of the human behavior.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)

On 9/14/22 6:16 PM, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> Stefan wrote:
> In article  you 
> write:
> >> the interest of the user. These "volunteers" obviously have other,
> >> possibly malicious, interests if they prove themselves unwilling to
> >> apply fixes to bugs that are reported to them.
> >
> >I think there's a confusion here: these volunteers will also have
> >"other, possibly malicious, interests" even if they are willing/eager
> >to apply fixes to bugs that are reported to them.
> >
> >Same goes for people you pay, so it's not specific to volunteers.
> >And of course it's also not specific to a particular kind of license.
>
> Thanks Stefan, it's great to see that some people understand the
> issues.
>
> I'll be brutally honest: being accused of "possibly malicious"
> unwilligness is *not* a great way to convince overstretched volunteers
> to spend their time on issues.
>

Thank you Steve, for the work you do as maintaining the grub software
packages on Debian.

I am not against giving maintainers like Steve just compensation for the
work they do fixing bugs, and by compensation I mean money.

Why not require the user to pay a small fee when reporting a bug
which can be used to provide just compensation for the services the
maintainers provide to the community when the maintainer fixes bugs?
I would be willing to pay a reasonably small fee that would go to the
maintainers who worked on the bug and successfully fixed it.

I'll be brutally honest: Being accused of being a troll is *not* a
great way to convince Debian users who want to contribute to
and help Debian to spend their free time helping maintainers fix
the bugs reported to the BTS. I also suspect many users agree
with me, but are afraid to say so for fear of being accused of
being a troll.

Best regards,

Chuck

Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)

2022-09-14 Thread Michael Stone


On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 11:16:00PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:

I'll be brutally honest: being accused of "possibly malicious"
unwilligness is *not* a great way to convince overstretched volunteers
to spend their time on issues.


Especially when it's an ongoing pattern of discourse.

Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)




On 2022-09-14 17:06, Thiemo Kellner wrote:
> Am 14.09.22 um 18:39 schrieb Maude Summerside:
>> This is where intellectual shortcut starts...
>> Free/OSS doesn't mean GPL.
>> There's plenty of Free/OSS software that the copyright owner retains
>> right to commercial licensing. Just look at libraries, some of them will
>> be in such a licensing term that if you use the free version, you have
>> to share your code if you distribute it but they offer a commercial
>> license that allow you to link and distribute without source code. If
>> you only stick to Debian, no such thing because they aren't in the
>> licensing term accepted for distribution.
>>
>> But let say QT, you have a free version, force you to distribute freely
>> if linked against or you go with the commercial license.
>>
>> Why would the owner of the copyright regarding Chromium (that can write
>> their own terms) couldn't reserve himself a right to make a closed
>> source version (like Google Chrome, owned by the owner of Chromium
>> license).
>>
>> Something taking a break and make some research just shows off that we
>> don't only know how to type code, but we have a bit more knowledge than
>> that, regarding mostly real life example of what's also part of the
>> ecosystem.
> Thanks for trying to point out. I am afraid, it is beyond me as is dual
> licensing in general.
> 

We all have our forces and weakness, so we are all the same.
I'm probably not as fast as you can be for writing JavaScript code,
HTML, or whatever you do. But my force is mostly at project management,
legal and business side of IT solutions.

I've driven mostly medical projects so I'm pretty used to the *thingy*
related to licensing.

The error I see the most often is generalizing a situation, in this case
thinking that GPL means Free/OSS. And even there free ain't OSS.

One of the reason behind the birth of MariaDB was such a dual licensing
change to MySQL when eveil-Oracle purchased the right to the software.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

Re: drive controller Q?

2022-09-14 Thread David Christensen


On 9/14/22 11:40, gene heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

Does anyone have experience with this controller card?

https://www.newegg.com/p/14G-04YB-3?Item=9SIB2XHHUE3880

Specifically, whats my chances of moving an existing software raid10's 4 
Samsung 1T's to it,
and then attaching 4 more 2T drives to it too, to create a separate 4T 
raid-10 for amanda?


Without any data loss if possible?

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.



Backup the contents of the 4 @ 1 TB RAID before making any changes; just 
in case.



What are the makes and model numbers of your computer, motherboard, 
chassis(es), drive rack(s), and disk drives?



Please confirm that you are using Linux md for software RAID.


What other expansion cards will be connected to the computer at the same 
time as the new HBA?



What other drives will be connected to the new HBA?


AIUI Linux md(4)/ mdadm(8) marks block devices when they are added into 
an array, and is able to find them if and when the device node changes. 
 So, shutting down, moving the 4 @ 1 TB drives to the new HBA, and 
booting should "just work".



As others have mentioned, a PCIe 2.0 1x connection (500 MB/s) may become 
a bottleneck for intensive RAID operations, such as copying the 4 @ 1 TB 
RAID10 to the 4 @ 2 TB RAID10, scrubbing a RAID, replacing/ resilvering 
RAID drives, etc..  I expect Amanda will be limited by HDD seek time 
and/or Gigabit Ethernet, not by PCIe 2.0 1x bandwidth.



David

Re: Should a serious bug have made in into bullseye 11.5?

2022-09-14 Thread Steve McIntyre

Michael Stone  wrote:
>On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 10:10:33AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
>>Well, my focus would be on two things: (a) the change in compatibility
>>level in debhelper in the middle of stable's lifetime
>
>That would not have ordinarily happened, and probably shouldn't have 
>happened in this case. Other non-minimal-security changes were backed 
>out for bullseye (namely the change to os-prober behavior) but this was 
>either overlooked or not realized to be a significant change. Usually a 
>stable update package would be modified from the version in stable 
>rather than backported from unstable, but in this case there were no 
>intermediate versions in unstable and it was probably thought safer to 
>use the package which had been tested in unstable rather than starting 
>over and potentially introducing a new bug. That probably was even true, 
>as the problem was identified during the test period on unstable -- but, 
>unfortunately, the priority of the bug didn't bubble up. I think this is 
>just one of those cases where mistakes happen (in this case, several 
>that aligned in an unfortunate way) and regardless of how hard we 
>(humans) try to avoid them sometimes we don't.

Yup, you've nailed it. We've had a stack of security bugs that needed
fixing in grub, and I chose to move both buster and bullseye forwards
to 2.06 rather than try and backport all the fixes to older releases
and hope/pray that they applied sensibly. Grub is very much a moving
target and a *huge* codebase with a lot of patches, for historical
reasons.

I didn't pick up on the packaging bug here, and unfortunately it made
it into the bullseye stable release. I tested my grub build on a
number of platforms and architectures, but that didn't include Xen. We
*really* have a dearth of Xen experience among the maintainers, and
that's not helping here.

I'm building a new unstable package (2.06-4) right now with Valentin's
patch applied, and once I've uploaded that I'll do a new bullseye
package too.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com
"We're the technical experts.  We were hired so that management could
 ignore our recommendations and tell us how to do our jobs."  -- Mike Andrews

Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)

2022-09-14 Thread Steve McIntyre

Stefan wrote:
In article  you write:
>> the interest of the user. These "volunteers" obviously have other,
>> possibly malicious, interests if they prove themselves unwilling to
>> apply fixes to bugs that are reported to them.
>
>I think there's a confusion here: these volunteers will also have
>"other, possibly malicious, interests" even if they are willing/eager
>to apply fixes to bugs that are reported to them.
>
>Same goes for people you pay, so it's not specific to volunteers.
>And of course it's also not specific to a particular kind of license.

Thanks Stefan, it's great to see that some people understand the
issues.

I'll be brutally honest: being accused of "possibly malicious"
unwilligness is *not* a great way to convince overstretched volunteers
to spend their time on issues.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com
"We're the technical experts.  We were hired so that management could
 ignore our recommendations and tell us how to do our jobs."  -- Mike Andrews

Re: Getting PHP to work with Apache on other directories

2022-09-14 Thread paulf

On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 08:51:56 -0700
Paul Scott  wrote:

> On 9/14/22 06:49, pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote:
> > Folks:
> >
> > I just installed Debian testing. I do PHP development. I host live
> > websites at /var/www/html and development sites at
> > /home/paulf/public_html. I have Apache configured so that
> > localhost/~paulf/ gets me to the sites at /home/paulf/public_html.
> >
> > I have an index.html and a script to test PHP functionality in both
> > locations. The phpinfo.php script consists of  >
> > All of this works fine in both locations with straight HTML pages.
> > And it works fine for PHP pages at /var/www/html. However, when I
> > try to access the phpinfo.php script at ~/public_html, I get a
> > blank page and the Apache log gives a 304 error (I've refreshed the
> > cache in Firefox). The php.ini config file has "open_basedir=", so
> > that it should function in any directory. And just for testing, the
> > phpinfo.php script at ~/public_html has permissions 777.
> >
> > Can anyone explain this, and how to fix it?
> 
> I was just there.
> 
> Comment out the last 5 lines of /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/phpX.conf
> 
> where X is your version of PHP

Excellent catch. Works as advertised. Many thanks.

Paul

-- 
Paul M. Foster
Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com
Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com
Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster

Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)

2022-09-14 Thread Thiemo Kellner


Am 14.09.22 um 18:39 schrieb Maude Summerside:

This is where intellectual shortcut starts...
Free/OSS doesn't mean GPL.
There's plenty of Free/OSS software that the copyright owner retains
right to commercial licensing. Just look at libraries, some of them will
be in such a licensing term that if you use the free version, you have
to share your code if you distribute it but they offer a commercial
license that allow you to link and distribute without source code. If
you only stick to Debian, no such thing because they aren't in the
licensing term accepted for distribution.

But let say QT, you have a free version, force you to distribute freely
if linked against or you go with the commercial license.

Why would the owner of the copyright regarding Chromium (that can write
their own terms) couldn't reserve himself a right to make a closed
source version (like Google Chrome, owned by the owner of Chromium license).

Something taking a break and make some research just shows off that we
don't only know how to type code, but we have a bit more knowledge than
that, regarding mostly real life example of what's also part of the
ecosystem.
Thanks for trying to point out. I am afraid, it is beyond me as is dual 
licensing in general.


--
Signal (Safer than WhatsApp): +49 1578 7723737
Threema (Safer than WhatsApp): A76MKH3J
Handy: +49 1578 772 37 37

Re: drive controller Q?


On 9/14/22 16:03, Dan Ritter wrote:

gene heskett wrote:

On 9/14/22 14:55, Dan Ritter wrote:

gene heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

Does anyone have experience with this controller card?

https://www.newegg.com/p/14G-04YB-3?Item=9SIB2XHHUE3880

Specifically, whats my chances of moving an existing software raid10's 4
Samsung 1T's to it,
and then attaching 4 more 2T drives to it too, to create a separate 4T
raid-10 for amanda?

Without any data loss if possible?

I don't have any experience with this one. I don't know what
SATA chipset it is using, but there aren't many that the kernel
doesn't already support.

That said, it is a straight SATA3 board, not a RAID board, so
there will be no difficulty in moving mdadm, btrfs or zfs RAIDs
over to it.

I would point out that you can't actually fit 16 x 3Gb/s worth
of bandwidth over one PCIe lane; if this is v1 PCIe, you have a
total of 250MB/s available. That's probably fine for four
spinning disks doing backup duty.

Here's a 4-port model with named PCIe v2 support and a
recognizable SATA chipset, for slightly less money:

https://www.newegg.com/syba-si-pex40064-sata-iii/p/N82E16816124064?Item=N82E16816124064

-dsr-
.

I looked at that one too, Dan, but I've filled up the back panel with usb
breakouts and it will
take a major re-arrangement to clear a pic-e slot. This mobo only has two,
and another drive
controller like this 4 port is already in the other slot.  Not saying it
can't be done, but
will be a pita to do. There is also a 6 port onboard controller that I might
be able to use
for the 2nd raid. With a boot drive, and a buffer drive for amanda, and 4
2T's on it that would
fill it up. I've got a usb3 optical drive that burns a dvd now and then so I
can do away with the
sata drive if push comes to shove. Or the accessory card for the /home
raid-10 is a 6 port with
2 empty sockets.

Can I make a 2nd raid 10 from two separate controllers? 2 drives on the mobo
controller and 2 on the
plugin controller? I'd think that could lead to mix-n-match problems given
udevs penchant for
shuffling drives.

Too many options..

The glory of software RAID over SATA3 is that they don't have to
be on the same controller at all. All the clever systems put
identifiers on each of the participating drives and you can
assemble the RAID without necessarily knowing where all the
parts are -- they will be found.

Great. Good news. So all I really need are the drives.

(This is definitely the case for mdadm and ZFS, probably less so
for btrfs, and possibly not at all true for LVM.)
I knew there was a reason I've never used LVM. But I didn't know it till 
now.
 Seems like I can faintly recall a fedora install going south in a day 
or so, wy back
then before I decided I wasn't cut out to be a red hat lab rat. Wasn't 
healthy at all.


Thanks Dan

-dsr-

.



Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page

Re: drive controller Q?

On 9/14/22 15:23, Charles Curley wrote:

On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 14:40:10 -0400
gene heskett wrote:

Does anyone have experience with this controller card?

https://www.newegg.com/p/14G-04YB-3?Item=9SIB2XHHUE3880

Gene, I don't know why you think you need 16 SATA ports. Also, this
card ships from China, and 3 to 31 days shipping may be optimistic.

I can tell you I have done very well with this two port card and the
four SATA ports already on board my motherboard.
https://www.newegg.com/syba-model-si-pex40148-pci-express-to-sata-card/p/14G-009S-00017?Item=14G-009S-00017
Or you may prefer the four port version.

I also recommend you use the software RAID built in to the Linux kernel.
Hardware RAID tends to be proprietary, which means you are stuck with
that line of card should your card die on you. And Murphy help you
getting updates if it's buggy.
There's echo in here Charles. Proprietary is the last thing I need. A
lesson I learned the
hard way back in scsi days. We had idiots with an EE trying to design
those who didn't
have transmission lines in their vocabulary, wouldn't know what they
were looking at

on the o'scope if I showed them.

Software raid is working fine here. Despite udev playing 52 pickup
discovering drives,

md manages to sort them out and assemble a raid 10 at boot time. Every time.

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page

Re: drive controller Q?

2022-09-14 Thread Dan Ritter

gene heskett wrote: 
> On 9/14/22 14:55, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > gene heskett wrote:
> > > Greetings all;
> > > 
> > > Does anyone have experience with this controller card?
> > > 
> > > https://www.newegg.com/p/14G-04YB-3?Item=9SIB2XHHUE3880
> > > 
> > > Specifically, whats my chances of moving an existing software raid10's 4
> > > Samsung 1T's to it,
> > > and then attaching 4 more 2T drives to it too, to create a separate 4T
> > > raid-10 for amanda?
> > > 
> > > Without any data loss if possible?
> > I don't have any experience with this one. I don't know what
> > SATA chipset it is using, but there aren't many that the kernel
> > doesn't already support.
> > 
> > That said, it is a straight SATA3 board, not a RAID board, so
> > there will be no difficulty in moving mdadm, btrfs or zfs RAIDs
> > over to it.
> > 
> > I would point out that you can't actually fit 16 x 3Gb/s worth
> > of bandwidth over one PCIe lane; if this is v1 PCIe, you have a
> > total of 250MB/s available. That's probably fine for four
> > spinning disks doing backup duty.
> > 
> > Here's a 4-port model with named PCIe v2 support and a
> > recognizable SATA chipset, for slightly less money:
> > 
> > https://www.newegg.com/syba-si-pex40064-sata-iii/p/N82E16816124064?Item=N82E16816124064
> > 
> > -dsr-
> > .
> I looked at that one too, Dan, but I've filled up the back panel with usb
> breakouts and it will
> take a major re-arrangement to clear a pic-e slot. This mobo only has two,
> and another drive
> controller like this 4 port is already in the other slot.  Not saying it
> can't be done, but
> will be a pita to do. There is also a 6 port onboard controller that I might
> be able to use
> for the 2nd raid. With a boot drive, and a buffer drive for amanda, and 4
> 2T's on it that would
> fill it up. I've got a usb3 optical drive that burns a dvd now and then so I
> can do away with the
> sata drive if push comes to shove. Or the accessory card for the /home
> raid-10 is a 6 port with
> 2 empty sockets.
> 
> Can I make a 2nd raid 10 from two separate controllers? 2 drives on the mobo
> controller and 2 on the
> plugin controller? I'd think that could lead to mix-n-match problems given
> udevs penchant for
> shuffling drives.
> 
> Too many options..

The glory of software RAID over SATA3 is that they don't have to
be on the same controller at all. All the clever systems put
identifiers on each of the participating drives and you can
assemble the RAID without necessarily knowing where all the
parts are -- they will be found.

(This is definitely the case for mdadm and ZFS, probably less so
for btrfs, and possibly not at all true for LVM.)

-dsr-

Re: drive controller Q?

2022-09-14 Thread Andrew M.A. Cater

On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 03:43:16PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 9/14/22 14:55, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > gene heskett wrote:
> > > Greetings all;
> > > 
> > > Does anyone have experience with this controller card?
> > > 
> > > https://www.newegg.com/p/14G-04YB-3?Item=9SIB2XHHUE3880
> > > 
> > > Specifically, whats my chances of moving an existing software raid10's 4
> > > Samsung 1T's to it,
> > > and then attaching 4 more 2T drives to it too, to create a separate 4T
> > > raid-10 for amanda?
> > > 

If your existing software raid is mdadm, quite good. YOu're pinning quite a
lot on one card though - as mentioned, you may suffer bandwidth poverty :)

> > > Without any data loss if possible?
> > I don't have any experience with this one. I don't know what
> > SATA chipset it is using, but there aren't many that the kernel
> > doesn't already support.
> > 
> > That said, it is a straight SATA3 board, not a RAID board, so
> > there will be no difficulty in moving mdadm, btrfs or zfs RAIDs
> > over to it.
> > 
> > I would point out that you can't actually fit 16 x 3Gb/s worth
> > of bandwidth over one PCIe lane; if this is v1 PCIe, you have a
> > total of 250MB/s available. That's probably fine for four
> > spinning disks doing backup duty.
> > 
> > Here's a 4-port model with named PCIe v2 support and a
> > recognizable SATA chipset, for slightly less money:
> > 
> > https://www.newegg.com/syba-si-pex40064-sata-iii/p/N82E16816124064?Item=N82E16816124064
> > 
> 
> Can I make a 2nd raid 10 from two separate controllers? 2 drives on the mobo
> controller and 2 on the
> plugin controller? I'd think that could lead to mix-n-match problems given
> udevs penchant for
> shuffling drives.
> 

mdadm should use internal blkid and shouldn't care if you shuffle drives.
Mixing and matching two controllers almost certainly won't work for other
reasons: there's a reason that add in cards are usually intended to 
support one set of RAID.

> Too many options..
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> -- 
>

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater

Re: drive controller Q?


On 9/14/22 14:55, Dan Ritter wrote:

gene heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

Does anyone have experience with this controller card?

https://www.newegg.com/p/14G-04YB-3?Item=9SIB2XHHUE3880

Specifically, whats my chances of moving an existing software raid10's 4
Samsung 1T's to it,
and then attaching 4 more 2T drives to it too, to create a separate 4T
raid-10 for amanda?

Without any data loss if possible?

I don't have any experience with this one. I don't know what
SATA chipset it is using, but there aren't many that the kernel
doesn't already support.

That said, it is a straight SATA3 board, not a RAID board, so
there will be no difficulty in moving mdadm, btrfs or zfs RAIDs
over to it.

I would point out that you can't actually fit 16 x 3Gb/s worth
of bandwidth over one PCIe lane; if this is v1 PCIe, you have a
total of 250MB/s available. That's probably fine for four
spinning disks doing backup duty.

Here's a 4-port model with named PCIe v2 support and a
recognizable SATA chipset, for slightly less money:

https://www.newegg.com/syba-si-pex40064-sata-iii/p/N82E16816124064?Item=N82E16816124064

-dsr-
.
I looked at that one too, Dan, but I've filled up the back panel with 
usb breakouts and it will
take a major re-arrangement to clear a pic-e slot. This mobo only has 
two, and another drive
controller like this 4 port is already in the other slot.  Not saying it 
can't be done, but
will be a pita to do. There is also a 6 port onboard controller that I 
might be able to use
for the 2nd raid. With a boot drive, and a buffer drive for amanda, and 
4 2T's on it that would
fill it up. I've got a usb3 optical drive that burns a dvd now and then 
so I can do away with the
sata drive if push comes to shove. Or the accessory card for the /home 
raid-10 is a 6 port with

2 empty sockets.

Can I make a 2nd raid 10 from two separate controllers? 2 drives on the 
mobo controller and 2 on the
plugin controller? I'd think that could lead to mix-n-match problems 
given udevs penchant for

shuffling drives.

Too many options..

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page

Re: drive controller Q?

2022-09-14 Thread Charles Curley

On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 14:40:10 -0400
gene heskett  wrote:

> Does anyone have experience with this controller card?
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/p/14G-04YB-3?Item=9SIB2XHHUE3880

Gene, I don't know why you think you need 16 SATA ports. Also, this
card ships from China, and 3 to 31 days shipping may be optimistic.

I can tell you I have done very well with this two port card and the
four SATA ports already on board my motherboard.
https://www.newegg.com/syba-model-si-pex40148-pci-express-to-sata-card/p/14G-009S-00017?Item=14G-009S-00017
Or you may prefer the four port version.

I also recommend you use the software RAID built in to the Linux kernel.
Hardware RAID tends to be proprietary, which means you are stuck with
that line of card should your card die on you. And Murphy help you
getting updates if it's buggy.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: drive controller Q?

2022-09-14 Thread Dan Ritter

gene heskett wrote: 
> Greetings all;
> 
> Does anyone have experience with this controller card?
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/p/14G-04YB-3?Item=9SIB2XHHUE3880
> 
> Specifically, whats my chances of moving an existing software raid10's 4
> Samsung 1T's to it,
> and then attaching 4 more 2T drives to it too, to create a separate 4T
> raid-10 for amanda?
> 
> Without any data loss if possible?

I don't have any experience with this one. I don't know what
SATA chipset it is using, but there aren't many that the kernel
doesn't already support.

That said, it is a straight SATA3 board, not a RAID board, so
there will be no difficulty in moving mdadm, btrfs or zfs RAIDs
over to it.

I would point out that you can't actually fit 16 x 3Gb/s worth
of bandwidth over one PCIe lane; if this is v1 PCIe, you have a
total of 250MB/s available. That's probably fine for four
spinning disks doing backup duty.

Here's a 4-port model with named PCIe v2 support and a
recognizable SATA chipset, for slightly less money:

https://www.newegg.com/syba-si-pex40064-sata-iii/p/N82E16816124064?Item=N82E16816124064

-dsr-

drive controller Q?


Greetings all;

Does anyone have experience with this controller card?

https://www.newegg.com/p/14G-04YB-3?Item=9SIB2XHHUE3880

Specifically, whats my chances of moving an existing software raid10's 4 
Samsung 1T's to it,
and then attaching 4 more 2T drives to it too, to create a separate 4T 
raid-10 for amanda?


Without any data loss if possible?

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page

Re: Success stories - Number one

2022-09-14 Thread Dan Ritter

DdB wrote: 
>  3. The simplistic approach:
> To get to that goal, i did create a directory purely to hold the
> status of my changes in the following form. For every modification
> to the system, i considered being worth keeping, i stored 3 files.
> 1. the original file as Ubuntu had installed it.
> 2. a "Pointer" (a file containing the path to the location of that
> file), and also some description of the initial problem and my
> workaround. Later, this was as useful as a piece of documentation.
> 3. the modified file which had made my life easier.
> Furthermore, i made a simple script to check, if my "solution" was
> still in place. Later, i allowed this script to restore my solution
> automatically, if it found the situation being unchanged relative to
> the beginning of my work.

Excellent, You have independently re-invented the work of many
sysadmins over the last 25 years!

The system you have constructed is a kind of configuration
management tool. Existing tools like this include salt, ansible,
puppet, chef, bcfg, cfengine, and more specialized things like
vagrant (largely used to construct virtual machines) and Nix (as
NixOS, attempts to define an entire Linux distribution through a
repeatable program). You can see that re-inventing this approach
is very popular.

Since many of these tools are already packaged for Debian, I
assure you that, in my opinion, discussing your tool is fully on-topic here.

-dsr-

Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)

On 2022-09-14 08:31, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:

>>> For example, most web
>>> browsers are based on chromium, a free oss project that comes in large part 
>>> from
>>> Google, but some of the most-used browsers in the world based on chromium
>>> are proprietary, such as chrome and edge.
>> I am not sure that this holds true. I would be quite surprised that 
>> chromium or edged can legally use code of a OSS browser, being CSS. But 
>> I am not an attorney.

This is where intellectual shortcut starts...
Free/OSS doesn't mean GPL.
There's plenty of Free/OSS software that the copyright owner retains
right to commercial licensing. Just look at libraries, some of them will
be in such a licensing term that if you use the free version, you have
to share your code if you distribute it but they offer a commercial
license that allow you to link and distribute without source code. If
you only stick to Debian, no such thing because they aren't in the
licensing term accepted for distribution.

But let say QT, you have a free version, force you to distribute freely
if linked against or you go with the commercial license.

Why would the owner of the copyright regarding Chromium (that can write
their own terms) couldn't reserve himself a right to make a closed
source version (like Google Chrome, owned by the owner of Chromium license).

Something taking a break and make some research just shows off that we
don't only know how to type code, but we have a bit more knowledge than
that, regarding mostly real life example of what's also part of the
ecosystem.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

Re: Getting PHP to work with Apache on other directories

2022-09-14 Thread Paul Scott


On 9/14/22 06:49, pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote:

Folks:

I just installed Debian testing. I do PHP development. I host live
websites at /var/www/html and development sites at
/home/paulf/public_html. I have Apache configured so that
localhost/~paulf/ gets me to the sites at /home/paulf/public_html.

I have an index.html and a script to test PHP functionality in both
locations. The phpinfo.php script consists of 

I was just there.

Comment out the last 5 lines of /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/phpX.conf

where X is your version of PHP

HTH,

Paul

Re: GenesysLogic USB microscope + uvcvideo interferes with all input




On 2022-09-14 11:31, Roger Price wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Sep 2022, Roger Price wrote:
> 
>> I'm trying to use a USB microscope with Debian 11.  When I plug it in
>> dmesg reports:
>>
>>  usb 1-1.2: Manufacturer: GenesysLogic Technology Co., Ltd.
>>  uvcvideo: Found UVC 1.00 device USB2.0 UVC PC Camera (a16f:0304)
>>
>> but when I run vlc v412:///dev/video0 , I see a black window flash
>> every 10 seconds, and I loose control of all mouse and keyboard
>> input.  When I unplug the camera, I recover mouse and keyboard.
> 
> More testing: the USB microscope works correctly with guvcview 2.0.6
> which is distributed with Debian 11.  I took all the default options.
> 
> Roger
> 


Only time I saw something similar (loosing power of other devices on the
bus) were times that a device was driving more power than what's available.

Have you tried using a self powered hub to drive your microscope ? The
light inside may take some heavy power.
-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)

2022-09-14 Thread Andrew M.A. Cater

People of debian-user :)

This thread does seem to be degenerating slightly into accusations and
name-calling, justified or not. Without prejudice to anyone: please may
I remind you that debian-user and all Debian lists and IRC channels are
subject to the Debian Code of Conduct.

It would be very much appreciated if disagreements could be resolved 
constructively and in a positive way. Ad hominem attacks don't help
anyone here. Taking a breath / walking away from the keyboard for half
a day might also help get a sense of perspective in any mailing list
opinion difference. (And yes, I know about https://xkcd.com/386/ and 
the difficulty that brings).

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater

[For and on behalf of the Debian Community Team]

Success stories - Number one

2022-09-14 Thread DdB

 1. Introduction:
As many other users, i usually ask for help on this list, naming
problems, i am facing and hoping to find help.
Not this time. Last night, i rectivated an old script of mine, that
was still hanging around in my repo since my Ubuntu days. I found it
to be so useful, that i am now thinking about sharing this, as it
may be useful to other people as well.
So it is more like a solution searching for a problem, it could
remedy. ;-)
 2. Initial problem:
On Ubuntu, i happened to run into bugs, and while trying to
understand them, i sometimes found a kind of workaround, a simple
change, that allowed me to live happily with the bug until further
improvements would come my way. But (and there was one big BUT)
sometimes the Ubuntu updates would just overwrite my changes and
thereby reactivate the buggy system behavior. After experiencing
this multiple times, i wanted my computer to give me a warning. when
such a situation would arise. That way, i would be invited to check
the changes and eventually decide on the best response to those.
 3. The simplistic approach:
To get to that goal, i did create a directory purely to hold the
status of my changes in the following form. For every modification
to the system, i considered being worth keeping, i stored 3 files.
1. the original file as Ubuntu had installed it.
2. a "Pointer" (a file containing the path to the location of that
file), and also some description of the initial problem and my
workaround. Later, this was as useful as a piece of documentation.
3. the modified file which had made my life easier.
Furthermore, i made a simple script to check, if my "solution" was
still in place. Later, i allowed this script to restore my solution
automatically, if it found the situation being unchanged relative to
the beginning of my work.
 4. Technical details:
During startup, while creating my desired working environment
(through some sort auf "autostart" script), i used to include a
whole lot of checks to let me know, if the system would not look as
clean as i would like it to be. And in this (bash-) script was a
line, saying:
> sudo b repair -v || notify-send "Vorsicht! PreserveOldVersions
> fällt eine relevante Abweichung auf. Dringend mal 'sudo b repair
> -v' ausführen."
Which reminds me to check myself (manually) to see, if it would be
suitable to use automatic repair or if another round of controlling
activities would be necessary. What b repair does, is - basically -
to pass on elevated priviledges (sudo) to the final script, to make
sure, it will be able to replace things like grub-mkconfig, if need be.
PreservOldVersions, the real script, is only 80 lines long, with
around 1/3 being comments. So it is rather simple.
 5. Current status:
After 2 years of living in debian (-oldstable by) now, i did not use
my old implementation at all. But i am fighting ghosts, i know, i
had already resolved in Ubuntu-times. So, just for fun, i
reactivated my old infrastructure yesterday, and found, this
immediately solved 2 little actual problems, while documenting
several problems, that seem to still be unresolved (or worse).
This persuaded me, to reuse my old work today, at least for the time
being. My situation is pretty much non-standard, for example, i am
lagging behind - even - the stable release. That is also the reason,
why i refrain from calling bugs out loud, as i am not able to check,
if they would still be present, if i was running a more
up-to-date-version of my beloved OS.
But i found grub(2) being a major area of pain. while
changing/creating a couple of scripts in grub.d, i came across a
very buggy os-prober, which is causing major headache. But
developers just introduced a default/grub variable to switch it off.
Leaving only inferior choices to the user. (Just as an example of
what i am working on.)
 6. Resume:
From now on, i am going to protect myself from inadvertently
overwritten or deactivated changes of mine. I know, apt *should* do
that already, but in my case, it did not prevent me losing previous
work through package updates/installs.
The other major source of trouble is being caused by me using the
Oracle version of VirtualBox. So not by debian itself. Also zfs used
to optimistically overwrite old configurations. So i have quite a
number of reasons to think, i am doing the right thing.
 7. Outlook:
This post is - more or less - an experiment. I am an old geezer, no
longer in shape to develop software (which has once been my job).
Also i am not interested to fight with debian, which is the best OS
i came across uptil now. Since i am not aware of any guideline, that
i would fail to respect, i am willing to show (a.k.a. give away)
some of my insights

Re: GenesysLogic USB microscope + uvcvideo interferes with all input

2022-09-14 Thread Roger Price


On Wed, 14 Sep 2022, Roger Price wrote:


I'm trying to use a USB microscope with Debian 11.  When I plug it in
dmesg reports:

 usb 1-1.2: Manufacturer: GenesysLogic Technology Co., Ltd.
 uvcvideo: Found UVC 1.00 device USB2.0 UVC PC Camera (a16f:0304)

but when I run vlc v412:///dev/video0 , I see a black window flash every 10 
seconds, and I loose control of all mouse and keyboard input.  When I unplug 
the camera, I recover mouse and keyboard.


More testing: the USB microscope works correctly with guvcview 2.0.6 which is 
distributed with Debian 11.  I took all the default options.


Roger

Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)

On 9/14/2022 9:06 AM, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2022-09-14 at 08:51, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>
> > On 9/14/2022 1:03 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 03:41:11PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> >>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >>> Actually, someone already has shown us how to do it better. His name is
> >>> Linus Torvalds [...]
> >>
> >> I don't know what your aim is.
> >>
> >> I have the impression that it's just arguing for arguing's sake [1].
> >>
> >> [1] in the classical sense of "trolling", as per Wikipedia:
> >>  "In Internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory,
> >>   insincere, digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in
> >>   an online community [...], with the intent of provoking readers
> >>   into displaying emotional responses,[2] or manipulating others'
> >>   perception.
> >>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolling
> > 
> > So you are accusing me of being a troll. Well, it takes one to know one.
>
> No, it very much does not.
>
> > Congratulations! I am starting my own list of trolls on debian-user and
> > you are the first member of that list.
>
> Given the long, long history of helping people that Tomas has on this
> mailing list, I think that if you want to convince anyone other than
> yourself that Tomas is a troll, you're going to have a *very* heavy lift
> (or a whole lot of lying) ahead of you.
>
> (Mind, by my personal definition - which is a bit different from the
> above, though probably still largely compatible - I'm not entirely
> convinced that you're a troll either. But you're *definitely* behaving
> in such a way that I do not blame others for reaching that conclusion.)

I admit that I behaved like a troll when i tried to enter into a conversation 
with
Tomas. I do know he helps many people on this list, that is something good he
does. But on this thread, he also behaved like a troll and caused me to also
behave like a troll. That is a fact, if anyone wants to take the time to look at
what he said, the things he omitted in his replies, etc.

I especially noted his response to my introduction of the idea in this thread
that open source projects like Debian consider themselves communities, and
I wanted to emphasize that those who volunteer to help out with Debian or
other free software communities should not serve their own interests but the
interests of the community. After I made those points, that is when Tomas
started his ad hominum attacks against me and turned the conversation away
from what it means for Debian to be a community and changed it into an ad
hominum attack against me. It causes me to think there are some aspects of
the idea of Debian as a community that are offensive to him. From what he
actually did in this thread, I am inclined to think his idea of Debian as a 
community
is that it is a community of developers only, and not of users. Maybe he is 
right
about that. Maybe Debian *is only* a community of the one thousand or so
Debian developers with voting rights, and the rest of us are trolls if we dare 
to
express our opinions as mere Debian users on the debian-user list or on any
other Debian hosted forum.

So I am going to be very careful about trying to have an objective conversation
with Tomas, given what I actually saw him do in this thread, and given the 
mistake
I made by letting him bait me into appearing to be a troll. I will be careful
to not let that happen again.

Best regards,

Chuck

GenesysLogic USB microscope + uvcvideo interferes with all input

2022-09-14 Thread Roger Price


I'm trying to use a USB microscope with Debian 11.  When I plug it in
dmesg reports:

  usb 1-1.2: Manufacturer: GenesysLogic Technology Co., Ltd.
  uvcvideo: Found UVC 1.00 device USB2.0 UVC PC Camera (a16f:0304)

but when I run vlc v412:///dev/video0 , I see a black window flash every 10 
seconds, and I loose control of all mouse and keyboard input.  When I unplug the 
camera, I recover mouse and keyboard.


I see that in 2017 someone got the camera to work with Ubuntu.
https://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-2379144.html
Has anyone got this camera to work with Debian 11?

Roger

Getting PHP to work with Apache on other directories

2022-09-14 Thread paulf

Folks:

I just installed Debian testing. I do PHP development. I host live
websites at /var/www/html and development sites at
/home/paulf/public_html. I have Apache configured so that
localhost/~paulf/ gets me to the sites at /home/paulf/public_html.

I have an index.html and a script to test PHP functionality in both
locations. The phpinfo.php script consists of http://noferblatz.com
Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com
Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster

Re: Printer pauses a few seconds between each page

2022-09-14 Thread Yvan Masson


Hi,

For those interested, I solved this by using PCL driver instead of 
Postscript (which was the default when setting up the printer), based on 
suggestions on the cups mailing list:

https://lists.cups.org/pipermail/cups/2022-September/075164.html

Regards,
Yvan

Le 11/09/2022 à 22:24, Yvan Masson a écrit :

Hi,

My printer is an (old) Epson EPL-6200, USB connected. When I print from 
my Debian laptop a multiple pages document, it pauses a few seconds 
between each page. It looks like there is one print job per page.


Another user of this printer, also running Debian and who experiments 
the same behavior, told me that *once* it printed a 5 pages document all 
at once, but it was a PDF printed from Evince whereas most of the time 
we print from LibreOffice.


I don’t know where I should look, CUPS is still a thing I do not really 
understand. Do you know/guess the reason of this behavior? Can it be 
changed?


You will find attached the PPD I use.

Thanks,
Yvan


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Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)

On 9/13/2022 7:11 PM, Thiemo Kellner wrote:
> Am 13.09.22 um 23:55 schrieb Chuck Zmudzinski:
> > 
>
> > I am fairly sure I was a victim of
> > the breach of Yahoo that affected hundreds of millions of its users.
> I am sorry for you. I do not know this case, so I cannot tell whether 
> OSS or CSS components of their service were breached, or even a social 
> engineering case.

There is information about the Yahoo data breach on the Internet, including the
$117 million class action case on behalf of 194 million class members:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/06/what-to-do-if-you-got-email-from-yahoo-about-a-data-breach-settlement.html

I don't know if there is enough information available in the public domain to 
determine
to what extent free/oss software might have contributed to that data breach. I 
do remember
Yahoo admitted the number of affected accounts was around 500 million.

Best regards,

Chuck

Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)

2022-09-14 Thread The Wanderer

On 2022-09-14 at 08:51, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:

> On 9/14/2022 1:03 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 03:41:11PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> Actually, someone already has shown us how to do it better. His name is
>>> Linus Torvalds [...]
>>
>> I don't know what your aim is.
>>
>> I have the impression that it's just arguing for arguing's sake [1].
>>
>> [1] in the classical sense of "trolling", as per Wikipedia:
>>  "In Internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory,
>>   insincere, digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in
>>   an online community [...], with the intent of provoking readers
>>   into displaying emotional responses,[2] or manipulating others'
>>   perception.
>>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolling
> 
> So you are accusing me of being a troll. Well, it takes one to know one.

No, it very much does not.

> Congratulations! I am starting my own list of trolls on debian-user and
> you are the first member of that list.

Given the long, long history of helping people that Tomas has on this
mailing list, I think that if you want to convince anyone other than
yourself that Tomas is a troll, you're going to have a *very* heavy lift
(or a whole lot of lying) ahead of you.

(Mind, by my personal definition - which is a bit different from the
above, though probably still largely compatible - I'm not entirely
convinced that you're a troll either. But you're *definitely* behaving
in such a way that I do not blame others for reaching that conclusion.)

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)

On 9/14/2022 1:03 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 03:41:11PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > Actually, someone already has shown us how to do it better. His name is
> > Linus Torvalds [...]
>
> I don't know what your aim is.
>
> I have the impression that it's just arguing for arguing's sake [1].
>
> [1] in the classical sense of "trolling", as per Wikipedia:
>  "In Internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory,
>   insincere, digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in
>   an online community [...], with the intent of provoking readers
>   into displaying emotional responses,[2] or manipulating others'
>   perception.
>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolling
>

So you are accusing me of being a troll. Well, it takes one to know one.

Congratulations! I am starting my own list of trolls on debian-user and
you are the first member of that list.

Chuck

Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)

On 9/14/2022 7:08 AM, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> > On 9/13/2022 3:59 PM, err...@free.fr wrote:
> > > Please STOP!
> > >
> > > you are annoying, and if you want improve free softwares, is not
> > > like this. you will better contribute with your code or with your
> > > translations than by writing to this mailing-list  
>
> I agree with the sentiments of annoyance and that this thread should
> stop now, please.

Not everyone agrees, because some have still been making comments here that
in my opinion and theirs are constructive and not just trolling.

>
> > The problem is, with all due respect, that I do have my code
> > improvements for free software, but some free software people do not
> > want to accept my contributions but instead want to allow the free
> > software to continue to have the bugs, and they will not explain
> > themselves either. Why should I waste my time contributing to
> > software projects who do not want my contributions? Treating people
> > who want to contribute this way is not the way to gain more advocates
> > for free software!
>
> But again you have been asked before to be specific about your
> objections, so a link to your proposed code improvements and whatever
> conversation there was when you submitted them would go some way to
> justifying the space and time you have already wasted on this list.
>
> > > I want you kicked from this list.  
> > 
> > Well, if you get me kicked off, I will be kicked off. But that is not
> > the way to build a community of people trying to make good software.
> > That is all I am advocating for, and I am really surprised to be
> > treated this way on this list for advocating for improved software in
> > Debian. I guess the trolls on here do not really want to increase the
> > number of people working on improving Debian. But without more
> > people, Debian cannot possibly provide quality support for 59,000
> > free software packages. That is just a fact, even it no one here
> > wants to acknowledge it.
>
> I haven't seen much evidence of trolls here, apart from yourself.

I did make the mistake of feeding a couple of trolls, from now on I will ignore 
them.
They baited me into appearing as a troll by refusing to acknowledge a simple 
truth
and forcing me to say the same obvious truth over and over again, and I 
understand
why some people might be annoyed by that.

Chuck

Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)

On 9/13/2022 7:11 PM, Thiemo Kellner wrote:
> Am 13.09.22 um 23:55 schrieb Chuck Zmudzinski:
> > On 9/13/2022 4:14 PM, Thiemo Kellner wrote:
> > I think Megha is emphasizing, and possibly over-emphasizing, the fact 
> > that the persons
> > who actually commit the code in free software projects can operate with 
> > little or
> > no oversight when they are just volunteers not really accountable to anyone.
> And I very much think she is wrong there. Being software developer 
> myself, unfortunately closed source mainly, I can tell that oversight is 
> not related to the licensing model or the pay of the developer. I would 
> go to the length to say that volunteers take, in general, a bigger pride 
> in the quality of their work, because they are not payed for it. The few 
> quite fruitless attempts in writing OSS, I took, failed sometimes 
> because I intend to create the perfect solution and thus not 
> progressing, whereas in the work for money I am often forced to 
> implement a working solution I can tell from the start, it will not be 
> easily maintainable or extendable.
> > to think the situation might be better if either 1) open source projects 
> > exercised more
> > oversight than they currently do over the persons who actually write the 
> > code and
> > release the software
> As I already told. In over 25 years of experience, I do not have 
> complaints about the oversight taken by OSS projects, where as I 
> regularly can complain about closed source payed for software. In the 
> past two weeks I was hunting down a problem we had with IBM DataStage. 
> One of the parallel subprocess terminated unexpectedly and all the 
> message DataStage cared to give was that the subprocess received a 
> SIGINT. We hope to have work around, because we could not find the 
> source. To me, one of the worst things one can do as developer not to 
> have proper error reporting - unless you know, you will not get bothered 
> when the shit starts to hit the fan.
> > , or 2) free/oss software never became ubiquitous. We just cannot
> > know without being able to do a time machine experiment and see how the 
> > software
> > world would have developed if free/oss software had not become as 
> > ubiquitous as it is
> > today.
> I cannot agree with you at all on this point. Omnipresence of OSS does 
> not mean there are more error in the code. It just means there are more 
> users to detect problems, thus more possiblities for the bugs to get 
> fixed. Sure, if OSS developers are overloaded the will not get to fix 
> all the problems, just as developers on CSS (closed source software). 
> Much more, because the sales man can sell better new shiny features even 
> if useless, than stable code. The buyer expects that flaws get fixed for 
> free, maybe rightly so, thus the CSS company will fix as few bugs it can 
> get away with (exageration).
> > If there was not a serious problem of malware, identity theft, ransomware, 
> > etc.,
> > I would be more inclined to question what Megha Verma wrote, but based on 
> > what
> > I see in how free/oss projects are governed, I am not surprised that a 
> > world that relies
> > on so much free/oss software also suffers from so much malware, ransomware, 
> > identity
> > theft, etc.
> Again, my experience with OSS is not this one. And I very much think, 
> that malware, ransomware usually is software on its own not built-in any 
> software. Maybe exploiting a backdoor a company put in their products 
> for ease of maintenance or just by negligence. Identity theft sounds 
> like social engineering or man in the middle attack. The latter not 
> necessarily being a problem of OSS.
> >   Just because *you* have not experienced malware in the software you use
> > does not mean that there are no cases where free/oss software is being 
> > deployed
> > elsewhere in a stealthy way for malicious purposes.
>
> I did not state that OSS was free of flaws and bugs. I am make a point 
> to state that in my experience there are fewer bugs therein than in CSS.
>
> > I am fairly sure I was a victim of
> > the breach of Yahoo that affected hundreds of millions of its users.
> I am sorry for you. I do not know this case, so I cannot tell whether 
> OSS or CSS components of their service were breached, or even a social 
> engineering case.
> >
> > I know people will reply and say it is much worse with proprietary 
> > software. But we
> > really cannot know for sure, because free/oss is so ubiquitous now it is 
> > hard to
> > separate free/oss software from proprietary software.
>
> I certainly can tell my experience comparing OSS to CSS. And there I OSS 
> gets better off. And for the rest, well I cannot tell it is this or the 
> other way around at all.
>
> > For example, most web
> > browsers are based on chromium, a free oss project that comes in large part 
> > from
> > Google, but some of the most-used browsers in the world based on chromium
> > are proprietary, such as chrome and edge.
> I am no

Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)

On 9/13/2022 6:47 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > If free/oss projects like Debian want to provide software with those
> > positive characteristics to their users, those projects must have in
> > place some level of oversight over what the persons who actually write
> > the software actually do, or don't do in the case of failing to fix
> > bugs that could easily be fixed, so that the goals of quality, useful,
> > safe, and secure software are reached.
>
> That's why I like Free Software: all of this is done out in the open,
> making oversight particularly easy.
>
> For proprietary code you generally simply can't do that at all because
> it's all kept secret.
>
>
> Stefan
>

We really agree on this point, thanks.

Chuck

Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)