Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[tomas]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2024 at 11:07:53PM -0800, David Christensen wrote:
> On 2/5/24 21:45, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> I am not aware of any problems pasting into other applications, just pasting
> into Vim.
> 
> 
> > Vim has changed its defaults a while ago in an annoying way.
> > 
> > Try ":set mouse=" and see whether it helps. Perhaps it's that.
> 
> 
> I am unable to correlate that Vim setting change to the Vim paste problems.

Pity. In my case it does help, but my setup is rather exotic
these days (I use X's primary selection as far as possible,
some brain dead applications don't grok that anymore).

Hope you find a solution

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Mixing HDD and SSD in lvm

[Marco Moock]

Am 06.02.2024 um 07:17:02 Uhr schrieb Kamil Jońca:

> Should I worry about anything (speed differences or sth)?

Speed differences will occur because reading and writing from/to the
SSD will be much faster.

-- 
kind regards
Marco

Spam und Werbung bitte an ichschickerekl...@cartoonies.org

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[David Christensen]

On 2/5/24 21:45, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Mon, Feb 05, 2024 at 03:14:45PM -0800, David Christensen wrote:

debian-user:

I have a laptop with:


[copy in Firefox, paste in vim]


I am unable to determine if the problem is Firefox, Vim, or something else.


Are you able to paste into another application?



Thank you for the reply. :-)


I am not aware of any problems pasting into other applications, just 
pasting into Vim.




Vim has changed its defaults a while ago in an annoying way.

Try ":set mouse=" and see whether it helps. Perhaps it's that.



I am unable to correlate that Vim setting change to the Vim paste problems.


David

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[David Christensen]

On 2/5/24 16:48, Dan Ritter wrote:

David Christensen wrote:

Normally, I can cut and paste between Xfce desktop applications.


Enter a Zip Code of "12345", highlight the first result, copy it to the
clipboard, start Terminal, open a file with Vim, press "i" to enter insert
mode, and paste, sometimes I see what I copied to the clipboard and
sometimes I see nothing.


I am unable to determine if the problem is Firefox, Vim, or something else.


Are you aware that there are at least three 'clipboards' here?

X11 primary selection: this usually get filled by selecting text
in a terminal. It usually gets pasted by Button 2. In vim, this
is the "+ buffer.

X11 clipboard: this usually gets filled by ctrl-c or
ctrl-shift-c or a menu "Copy". It usually gets pasted by ctrl-v
or ctrl-shift-v or a menu "Paste". In vim, this is the "*
buffer.



Thank you for the reply.


I was aware of the X11 clipboard and interacting with it via Edit menus, 
context menus (right-click), Ctrl+C, Ctrl+X, Ctrl+V, Shift+Delete, 
Shift+Insert, etc..



I was aware of X11 select and paste via middle-click.


Please provide a URL that describes the Vim "+ and "* buffers, how to 
interact with them within Vim, how to interact with them from other 
apps, etc..




Vim can bypass a chunk of this by combining primary and
clipboard:

:set clipboard=unnamed,unnamedplus



I entered the above command into Vim, but am unsure what behavior or 
change in behavior I am supposed to see (?).



David

Mixing HDD and SSD in lvm

[Kamil Jońca]

Debian box with LVM
LVM uses  2 PV - raid devices each uses 2 HDD (rotating)
discs (with sata interfaces).

Now I am considering replacing one PV with md device constisting of SSD
discs, so LVM will be have one "HDD" based pv and one SSD based PV.
Should I worry about anything (speed differences or sth)?
KJ

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)

[Brian Sammon]

On Mon, 05 Feb 2024 21:06:30 +0100
hw  wrote:

> Yes, it's a misunderstanding: How can we change the keyboard layout?

I recently dug into this because I am running Debian on a Chromebook, and I 
wanted to map the Google-key (located next to the A key, where you usually 
expect Caps-Lock to be) to be a Ctrl, for Emacs-Correctness.  I wanted a 
solution that would also work when I used an external keyboard (which has an 
actual CapsLock next to the A), and would work both in X and in console mode.

The solution I found, which should work when using Wayland as well, was to 
customize the lowlevel scancode-to-keycode mapping that is managed by udev.  
You can have different remappings for different keyboard models.

This keymapping system is very powerful, but somewhat ideosyncratic, and 
somewhat poorly documented.  And it's an edit-the-configfile system; I'm not 
aware of any GUI config tools for it.

It took me over 2 hours to figure out and set up, after which I had a scrambled 
pile of notes (in a text file) but not the energy to clean them up.  The next 
time I do it I expect it'll take me about an hour (if the same process still 
applies) instead of the 15 minutes it would take if I did a proper job of 
documenting it for myself.

Some of the webpages in my notes that I remember being useful are:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Keyboard_input
https://yulistic.gitlab.io/2017/12/linux-keymapping-with-udev-hwdb/ (including 
some of the comments that contain more recent info)
https://medium.com/@canadaduane/key-remapping-in-linux-2021-edition-47320999d2aa

Some somewhat-informative files on my computer were
/lib/udev/hwdb.d/60-keyboard.hwdb (comes with udev)
/usr/include/linux/input-event-codes.h (comes with linux-libc-dev package)

Gotchas include:
Some things *must* be in lowercase (keycodes, I think?)
Some things *must* be in uppercase (certain hexadecimal stuff?)
For best results, triple-check that the case you use is exactly the same as the 
example/sample config files.
If you get this wrong, udev will just ignore the erroneous parts of your config 
file, (and you might think it just didn't see it) instead of giving an error 
message.

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[David Christensen]

On 2/5/24 19:03, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 06/02/2024 06:14, David Christensen wrote:

Enter a Zip Code of "12345", highlight the first result, copy it
to the clipboard,
[...]> But if I close the above Firefox window, start a Firefox 
instance,

browse to:


If you terminate an application handling selection then content is 
not available any more.



Thank you for the reply.  :-)


I did not attempt to paste from the X primary selection after closing 
Firefox.




To debug you may use xsel or xclip

xclip -o -selection PRIMARY
xclip -o -selection CLIPBOARD



That is useful.


To access primary selection or clipboard in vim use * and + 
registers: "*p in normal mode 



If I start Firefox, browse to https://www.toyota.com/dealers, select the
the first dealer contents, start Vim, press and release the double-quote 
key, press and release the asterisk key, and press and release the p 
key, Vim inserts a blank line.



or C-R* in insert mode. 



I do not understand your notation:

C-R*


Continuing from above in Vim in normal (command) mode, if I then press 
and release the i key, then simultaneously press the Ctrl, r, and 
asterisk keys, and then release all keys, nothing happens.




... Ctrl+Shift+V



Continuing from above in Vim in Insert mode, if I then simultaneously 
press the Ctrl, Shift, and v keys, and then release all keys, Vim 
inserts the contents of the clipboard; as confirmed by:


xclip -o -selection CLIPBOARD


David

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[tomas]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2024 at 03:14:45PM -0800, David Christensen wrote:
> debian-user:
> 
> I have a laptop with:

[copy in Firefox, paste in vim]

> I am unable to determine if the problem is Firefox, Vim, or something else.

Are you able to paste into another application?

Vim has changed its defaults a while ago in an annoying way.

Try ":set mouse=" and see whether it helps. Perhaps it's that.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Fwd: Fwd: Openstack images default password

[Luna Jernberg]

-- Forwarded message -
Från: Joost van Baal-Ilić 
Date: tis 6 feb. 2024 kl 06:31
Subject: Re: Fwd: Openstack images default password
To: Luna Jernberg 


Hi Luna,

off-list reply (feel free to quote me): i don't think our openstack images come
with a default password; they do not suffer from such a security hole.

Thanks, Bye,

Joost

Op Tue, Feb 06, 2024 at 05:47:38AM +0100 schreef Luna Jernberg aan
debian-cl...@lists.debian.org:
> -- Forwarded message -
> Från: Оксана Патакі 
> Date: mån 5 feb. 2024 kl 19:54
> Subject: Re: Openstack images default password
> To: 
>
>
> У меня есть вопрос а почему А пароль не Откуда взять потому что я
> просто взял образ АРМ 64 хотел запустить на qemu

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout?

[tomas]

On Tue, Feb 06, 2024 at 12:24:32AM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > I'm not aware of any projects aimed at recreating mature, traditional
> > working environments in Wayland.  Maybe they exist and I'm simply not
> > aware of them.  Maybe nobody who's capable of developing such an
> > environment has the motivation to do so.
> 
> I'm afraid X11 users should make an effort to try and use Wayland for
> the sole purpose of finding the problems they'd encounter and file
> feature requests (e.g. for better customizability of the keyboard).
> 
> AFAICT many such requests are discarded as being too marginal, but
> that might be just because all those who need it keep avoiding Wayland.

I lost that optimism long time ago. If I felt a genuine interest,
I'd put up with all the inconveniences involved, but I just don't.

I had my share of discussions back then (before Wayland) in the
context of GNOME and I don't need that again.

But do keep your optimism: that's what makes the world better.

Cheers
-- 
t


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On graphical environments [was: what keyboard do you use?]

[tomas]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2024 at 09:40:30PM +0100, hw wrote:

[...]

> Have you ever entered ipv4 addresses (and floats) on a German
> keyboard?  It's insane.

While I do agree with other of your points (CTRL-] being one,
although you exaggerated by one key), I don't understand this
one. I'm entering IPv4 addresses every day in a German keyboard
and I don't see any problem. IPv6 is trickier, though...

But floats? Where's the problem?

[...]

> Gnome has actually become usable about 2 years ago, though I miss
> fvwm [...]

That's why I came full circle back from GNOME (with some stops in
XFCE, awesome) to fvwm. I like a setup where the window manager is
*my* ally, not that of some krazy applications (browsers, I'm looking
at you). Including a key combo for xkill (I even clawed back the
little skull for the cursor :-)

Fvwm does work in Debian. Try it!

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: How can we change the keyboard layout?

[Stefan Monnier]

> I'm not aware of any projects aimed at recreating mature, traditional
> working environments in Wayland.  Maybe they exist and I'm simply not
> aware of them.  Maybe nobody who's capable of developing such an
> environment has the motivation to do so.

I'm afraid X11 users should make an effort to try and use Wayland for
the sole purpose of finding the problems they'd encounter and file
feature requests (e.g. for better customizability of the keyboard).

AFAICT many such requests are discarded as being too marginal, but
that might be just because all those who need it keep avoiding Wayland.


Stefan

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout?

[Greg Wooledge]

> > So how do you change the keyboard layout when using wayland?
> 
> I've no idea. I don't seem to have noticed that X is on the way out.

At this point, I believe there are folks who *believe* that Wayland is
the future, and that everyone should switch to it sooner rather than
later.

I also believe that there are people who are happily using it.  Most
people who use it probably don't even know they're using it.

What I *know*, however, is that there are some people who are never
going to switch until (a) the decision is taken away from them, by X
no longer working, or (b) a fully equivalent Wayland environment can
be created to take the place of their existing X environment.

I'm not aware of any projects aimed at recreating mature, traditional
working environments in Wayland.  Maybe they exist and I'm simply not
aware of them.  Maybe nobody who's capable of developing such an
environment has the motivation to do so.

Re: Many systemd units do not start anymore

[David Wright]

On Tue 06 Feb 2024 at 09:51:02 (+0700), Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 06/02/2024 03:46, Michael Biebl wrote:
> > If you are not using systemd-timesyncd, you could also consider
> > disabling systemd-time-wait-sync.service (via systemctl disable).
> 
> My guess is that this board does not have RTC,

I don't understand how it would have worked before.

> so NTP is a must have
> and dependency on time synchronization is intentional.
> 
> The question is whether it is Debian or some derivative like armbian.
> 
> Perhaps proper timeouts may be set for the case when network is not
> available.

Cheers,
David.

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout?

[David Wright]

On Tue 06 Feb 2024 at 00:11:43 (+0100), hw wrote:
> On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 20:59 +, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> > On 5 Feb 2024 21:06 +0100, from h...@adminart.net (hw):
> > > [...]
> > > --- and then I need to be able to change the keyboard layout in
> > > wayland sessions unless I use an US keyboard.  But I only have one
> > > of those.
> > 
> > Pretty sure /etc/default/keyboard has been a thing on Debian for just
> > about forever. I haven't dug into the details but it seems to date
> > back to 2006 which would put its first appearance at circa Sarge or
> > Etch (3.1/mid-2005 or 4.0/early-2007 respectively); possibly even
> > earlier, but that's as far back as the console-setup package history
> > goes.
> 
> Yeah it was an issue back then, and how do you know that there's such
> a thing as /etc/default/keyboard and what it means.

man keyboard perhaps? (First paragraph in Description.)

> Try to get a
> German Model M keyboard to work right with Xorg in, for example, 2010.
> 
> It starts with the question 'How many keys does it have?' and soon the
> question is 'How do I turn CapsLock into Ctrl?' and 'How do I put that
> into xorg.conf?' --- which eventually was omitted, so you had to bring
> that back, and that even in snippets, to get it to work.  Ugh ...

Would you get more help on the German list, as one might expect
people there to be using German layouts more frequently?

  caps:ctrl_modifier   Caps Lock is also a Ctrl

xorg.conf is only omitted because by default it is empty. I drop a
small file into xorg.conf.d just because the side buttons on one of
my mice are a nuisance. But I don't resent not having to specify
all those Screens, Monitors and Devices that used to be necessary.

> Even fvwm kinda never got it right because stuff would change in some
> ideosyncratic, unexpected way depending on if NumLock was on or off.
> So don't you dare to turn that off --- and for almost 30 years we had
> to manually switch on NumLock every time we started an X11 session and
> if we were to switch to a console, we had to turn it on again and then
> do something because it was screwed up after switching back (or the
> other way round).

As I have NumLock turned off, and never turn it on, I haven't had
occasion to use IgnoreModifiers in fvwm, but

  IgnoreModifiers 2

is meant to ignore that modifier.

> How can it be so difficult to get basic things like that right?  It
> still sucks because after more then 30 years, we still don't have a
> good way to change the keyboard layouts!

I presume you're now talking about wayland, though I don't think it's
been around for 30 years.

> > The one on my Bookworm system even has a comment right there on how to
> > use an entirely custom keymap, and that's also mentioned in the
> > keyboard(5) man page.
> 
> "In Debian systems the default keyboard layout is described in
>  /etc/default/keyboard and it is shared between X and the
>  console."
> 
> Xorg doesn't seem to be maintained anymore and is on the way out.
> 
> So how do you change the keyboard layout when using wayland?

I've no idea. I don't seem to have noticed that X is on the way out.

Cheers,
David.

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[David Wright]

On Fri 02 Feb 2024 at 20:25:09 (-0500), Lee wrote:
> I bought a Dell desktop in 2019 and the keyboard just died :(
> 
> ssh in from another machine & do a 'sudo reboot now' and get an alert
> about 'Keyboard not found.'  on power up.  The keyboard also doesn't
> work in another machine so it's really & truly dead.
> 
> I figure there's a high percentage of keyboard jockeys here so ..
> which keyboard do you like and why?
> 
> I have a Logitech k740 attached to my Windows machine which is ok.
> Not great but OK.
> I found a spare Logitech k120 keyboard in the closet; its better than
> nothing but too thick for regular use.
> And the old Dell keyboard from the Windows machine - also too thick,
> the keys are too cramped and lettering has worn off on about 1/4 of
> the keys (which is why I got the Logitech 740)

Most of the time I use a Logitech K520, bought with a unified mouse,
though I use it with a wired optical mouse. We have another K520 and
a K540, also with mice, though the mice are scattered around. The
540 says Logitech Europe, though it's a US layout like the rest.

I also have an M 1391406 keyboard from 1988, with a GB layout, so
it's got 102 keys. I use it on a 2011 Dell tower (which has PS/2
connectors), paired with a 20-year old Logitech Pilot 3-button.

In a cupboard we've also got a couple of MS Internet Pros (US) and
a Viglen (GB), all USB wired. I don't like their touch.

Cheers,
David.

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[Max Nikulin]

On 05/02/2024 18:37, hw wrote:

With xmodmap, I was able to adjust the layout as needed.  With
wayland, I can't do that anymore


Untested:

https://who-t.blogspot.com/2020/02/user-specific-xkb-configuration-part-1.html
User-specific XKB configuration - part 1

and I have heard about a low-level trick

/etc/udev/hwdb.d/90-custom-keyboard.hwdb
evdev:input:b0003v1A2Cp0E24*
 KEYBOARD_KEY_70039=f14

However I am unsure if it is possible to remap "Fn" key, it may be 
handled by device firmware.

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout?

[Max Nikulin]

On 06/02/2024 03:59, Michael Kjörling wrote:

Pretty sure /etc/default/keyboard has been a thing on Debian for just
about forever.


GNOME developers decided that they do not want to support all "bells and 
whistles" of XKB, e.g. layout switch using CapsLock and Shift+CapsLock. 
So some features configurable through /etc/default/keyboard are not 
available.

Re: Many systemd units do not start anymore

[Max Nikulin]

On 06/02/2024 03:46, Michael Biebl wrote:
If you are not using systemd-timesyncd, you could also consider 
disabling systemd-time-wait-sync.service (via systemctl disable).


My guess is that this board does not have RTC, so NTP is a must have and 
dependency on time synchronization is intentional.


The question is whether it is Debian or some derivative like armbian.

Perhaps proper timeouts may be set for the case when network is not 
available.

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[Max Nikulin]

On 06/02/2024 06:14, David Christensen wrote:
Enter a Zip Code of "12345", highlight the first result, copy it to the 
clipboard,

[...]> But if I close the above Firefox window, start a Firefox instance,

browse to:


If you terminate an application handling selection then content is not 
available any more. To make selection "persistent", you may try some 
clipboard manager, but it may have not always desirable side effects.


To debug you may use xsel or xclip

xclip -o -selection PRIMARY
xclip -o -selection CLIPBOARD

To access primary selection or clipboard in vim use * and + registers: 
"*p in normal mode or C-R* in insert mode. It is safer than middle click 
or [Ctrl+Shift+V] handled by terminal since selection may contain 
terminal control characters (e.g. to exit from vim and to run rm -rf ~ 
in terminal).

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[Dan Ritter]

David Christensen wrote: 
> Normally, I can cut and paste between Xfce desktop applications.
> 
> 
> Enter a Zip Code of "12345", highlight the first result, copy it to the
> clipboard, start Terminal, open a file with Vim, press "i" to enter insert
> mode, and paste, sometimes I see what I copied to the clipboard and
> sometimes I see nothing.
> 
> 
> I am unable to determine if the problem is Firefox, Vim, or something else.

Are you aware that there are at least three 'clipboards' here?

X11 primary selection: this usually get filled by selecting text
in a terminal. It usually gets pasted by Button 2. In vim, this
is the "+ buffer.

X11 clipboard: this usually gets filled by ctrl-c or
ctrl-shift-c or a menu "Copy". It usually gets pasted by ctrl-v
or ctrl-shift-v or a menu "Paste". In vim, this is the "*
buffer.

X11 secondary selection: you are unlikely to encounter it, but
when you do, it will be bizarre. Read: 
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~lindsec/secondary-selection.html

Vim can bypass a chunk of this by combining primary and
clipboard:

:set clipboard=unnamed,unnamedplus

in which case "* and "+ will be pasted simultaneously from vim.

-dsr-

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[Peter Ehlert]

On 2/5/24 14:11, Ash Joubert wrote:

On 06/02/2024 04:15, Peter Ehlert wrote:

Logitech K270
full size, simple, $22 USD, fits me just fine


I use a Logitech MK270r 


good tip, packaged with a mouse for $6 more

thanks. I will get that bundle next time

Wireless Keyboard and Mouse Combo which has the same keyboard. 
Full-size standard layout plus media keys, physical power switches on 
both keyboard and mouse. I find the keyboard comfortable and not too 
loud, and the compact mouse suits my smallish hands. I have several of 
these sets for my various work and home computers.


Cheers,

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[DdB]

Am 06.02.2024 um 00:14 schrieb David Christensen:
> Comments or suggestions?
This may be unrelated, but ...
I can copy/paste using the mouse, or - if i use the keyboard - i need to
copy paste using CTRL-Shift-C and CTRL-Shift-V (when in the terminal
emulator like gnome-terminal or terminator)

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[David Christensen]

On 2/5/24 15:44, Bret Busby wrote:

On 6/2/24 07:14, David Christensen wrote:

debian-user:

I have a laptop with:

2024-02-05 15:04:48 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a ; dpkg-query -W xfce4 firefox-esr 
vim

11.8
Linux laalaa 5.10.0-27-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.205-2 (2023-12-31) 
x86_64 GNU/Linux

firefox-esr    115.7.0esr-1~deb11u1
vim    2:8.2.2434-3+deb11u1
xfce4    4.16

2024-02-05 15:10:08 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ grep -v '"' .vimrc | grep .
map q 
set autoindent
set backspace=indent,eol,start
set nocompatible
set nomodeline
set number
set numberwidth=8
set paste
set shiftwidth=4
set wildmode=longest,list


Normally, I can cut and paste between Xfce desktop applications.


For example, if I start Firefox, disable all extensions, browse to:

https://www.toyota.com/dealers/

Enter a Zip Code of "12345", highlight the first result, copy it to 
the clipboard, and paste into this message, I see:


Lia Toyota of Colonie
2116 Central Ave., Rte. 5, Schenectady NY 12304
(5.3 miles)
Today's Hours: 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM
(518) 374-3700


But if I close the above Firefox window, start a Firefox instance, 
browse to:


https://www.toyota.com/dealers/

Enter a Zip Code of "12345", highlight the first result, copy it to 
the clipboard, start Terminal, open a file with Vim, press "i" to 
enter insert mode, and paste, sometimes I see what I copied to the 
clipboard and sometimes I see nothing.

...

How exactly are you copying and pasting?

Are you marking the text and using Copy and Paste from the menu 
generated by clicking the non-dominant mouse button, or, are you marking 
the text, and using  to copy then  to paste?



Thank you for the reply.  :-)


Copy from Firefox -- drag to highlight text, then:

1.  Press Ctrl+C, or

2.  Right-click and choose Copy.


Paste into Vim:

1.  Middle click, or

2.  Right-click and choose Paste.


What happens if you copy and paste to an editor such as gedit? 
Does that work consistently? If so, what happens if you copy and paste to gedit, 
and then, copy from gedit, and paste to the vim window?



Copying from any Xfce window and pasting into Mousepad seems to work 
consistently.



Copying from Firefox, Mousepad, and potentially other Xfce windows into 
Vim does not work consistently.



Does it make any difference whether you have the vim session open, and 
the file open, into which you want to paste, before you copy the text 
that you want to paste into it?



No.


Have you tried the text editor that is the default editor for alpine 
(previously known as pine) - I think it is either nano or pico?



No.


David

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[Bret Busby]

On 6/2/24 07:14, David Christensen wrote:

debian-user:

I have a laptop with:

2024-02-05 15:04:48 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a ; dpkg-query -W xfce4 firefox-esr vim
11.8
Linux laalaa 5.10.0-27-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.205-2 (2023-12-31) 
x86_64 GNU/Linux

firefox-esr    115.7.0esr-1~deb11u1
vim    2:8.2.2434-3+deb11u1
xfce4    4.16

2024-02-05 15:10:08 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ grep -v '"' .vimrc | grep .
map q 
set autoindent
set backspace=indent,eol,start
set nocompatible
set nomodeline
set number
set numberwidth=8
set paste
set shiftwidth=4
set wildmode=longest,list


Normally, I can cut and paste between Xfce desktop applications.


For example, if I start Firefox, disable all extensions, browse to:

https://www.toyota.com/dealers/

Enter a Zip Code of "12345", highlight the first result, copy it to the 
clipboard, and paste into this message, I see:


Lia Toyota of Colonie
2116 Central Ave., Rte. 5, Schenectady NY 12304
(5.3 miles)
Today's Hours: 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM
(518) 374-3700


But if I close the above Firefox window, start a Firefox instance, 
browse to:


https://www.toyota.com/dealers/

Enter a Zip Code of "12345", highlight the first result, copy it to the 
clipboard, start Terminal, open a file with Vim, press "i" to enter 
insert mode, and paste, sometimes I see what I copied to the clipboard 
and sometimes I see nothing.



I am unable to determine if the problem is Firefox, Vim, or something else.


Comments or suggestions?


David


How exactly are you copying and pasting?

Are you marking the text and using Copy and Paste from the menu 
generated by clicking the non-dominant mouse button, or, are you marking 
the text, and using  to copy then  to paste?


What happens if you copy and paste to an editor such as gedit? Does that 
work consistently? If so, what happens if you copy and paste to gedit, 
and then, copy from gedit, and paste to the vim window?


Does it make any difference whether you have the vim session open, and 
the file open, into which you want to paste, before you copy the text 
that you want to paste into it?


Have you tried the text editor that is the default editor for alpine 
(previously known as pine) - I think it is either nano or pico?



Bret Busby
Armadale
Western Australia
(UTC+0800)
.

Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[David Christensen]

debian-user:

I have a laptop with:

2024-02-05 15:04:48 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a ; dpkg-query -W xfce4 firefox-esr vim
11.8
Linux laalaa 5.10.0-27-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.205-2 (2023-12-31) 
x86_64 GNU/Linux

firefox-esr 115.7.0esr-1~deb11u1
vim 2:8.2.2434-3+deb11u1
xfce4   4.16

2024-02-05 15:10:08 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ grep -v '"' .vimrc | grep .
map q 
set autoindent
set backspace=indent,eol,start
set nocompatible
set nomodeline
set number
set numberwidth=8
set paste
set shiftwidth=4
set wildmode=longest,list


Normally, I can cut and paste between Xfce desktop applications.


For example, if I start Firefox, disable all extensions, browse to:

https://www.toyota.com/dealers/

Enter a Zip Code of "12345", highlight the first result, copy it to the 
clipboard, and paste into this message, I see:


Lia Toyota of Colonie
2116 Central Ave., Rte. 5, Schenectady NY 12304
(5.3 miles)
Today's Hours: 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM
(518) 374-3700


But if I close the above Firefox window, start a Firefox instance, 
browse to:


https://www.toyota.com/dealers/

Enter a Zip Code of "12345", highlight the first result, copy it to the 
clipboard, start Terminal, open a file with Vim, press "i" to enter 
insert mode, and paste, sometimes I see what I copied to the clipboard 
and sometimes I see nothing.



I am unable to determine if the problem is Firefox, Vim, or something else.


Comments or suggestions?


David

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout?

[hw]

On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 20:59 +, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> On 5 Feb 2024 21:06 +0100, from h...@adminart.net (hw):
> > [...]
> > --- and then I need to be able to change the keyboard layout in
> > wayland sessions unless I use an US keyboard.  But I only have one
> > of those.
> 
> Pretty sure /etc/default/keyboard has been a thing on Debian for just
> about forever. I haven't dug into the details but it seems to date
> back to 2006 which would put its first appearance at circa Sarge or
> Etch (3.1/mid-2005 or 4.0/early-2007 respectively); possibly even
> earlier, but that's as far back as the console-setup package history
> goes.

Yeah it was an issue back then, and how do you know that there's such
a thing as /etc/default/keyboard and what it means.  Try to get a
German Model M keyboard to work right with Xorg in, for example, 2010.

It starts with the question 'How many keys does it have?' and soon the
question is 'How do I turn CapsLock into Ctrl?' and 'How do I put that
into xorg.conf?' --- which eventually was omitted, so you had to bring
that back, and that even in snippets, to get it to work.  Ugh ...

Even fvwm kinda never got it right because stuff would change in some
ideosyncratic, unexpected way depending on if NumLock was on or off.
So don't you dare to turn that off --- and for almost 30 years we had
to manually switch on NumLock every time we started an X11 session and
if we were to switch to a console, we had to turn it on again and then
do something because it was screwed up after switching back (or the
other way round).

How can it be so difficult to get basic things like that right?  It
still sucks because after more then 30 years, we still don't have a
good way to change the keyboard layouts!

> The one on my Bookworm system even has a comment right there on how to
> use an entirely custom keymap, and that's also mentioned in the
> keyboard(5) man page.

"In Debian systems the default keyboard layout is described in
 /etc/default/keyboard and it is shared between X and the
 console."

Xorg doesn't seem to be maintained anymore and is on the way out.

So how do you change the keyboard layout when using wayland?

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[Ash Joubert]

On 06/02/2024 04:15, Peter Ehlert wrote:

Logitech K270
full size, simple, $22 USD, fits me just fine


I use a Logitech MK270r Wireless Keyboard and Mouse Combo which has the 
same keyboard. Full-size standard layout plus media keys, physical power 
switches on both keyboard and mouse. I find the keyboard comfortable and 
not too loud, and the compact mouse suits my smallish hands. I have 
several of these sets for my various work and home computers.


Cheers,

--
Ash Joubert (they/them) 
Director / Game Developer
Transient Software Limited 
New Zealand

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)

[hw]

On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 14:34 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> [...]
>  "The German layout differs from the English (US and UK) layouts in
>   four major ways:

It's missing out on yet another major way: Umlaute.

The Umlaute take whole keys for themselves like other letters, and
since there aren't any more keys on the keyboard, they replace other
characters which contributes to the German keyboard layout being
rather awkward and difficult to use.  Whoever created it has
completely overlooked that computers aren't typewriters.

And it's very bad not to have a right Alt key.  That also has
consequences that make things worse.

> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_keyboard_layout

Re: tn5250

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 3:56 AM Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d...@ewoof.net> wrote:
>
> On 5 Feb 2024 08:28 +, from hen...@morsing.cc (Henrik Morsing):
> > Does anyone know the reason from removing the tn5250 emulator from
> > the package system? It is still maintained and available in other
> > distros.
>
> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/tn5250
>
> https://tracker.debian.org/news/219802/bug540953-removed-packages-from-unstable/
>
> https://bugs.debian.org/540953

This looks like the one Henrik would be interested in. It is the WNPP
bug report: .

Also see , where tn5250 is a hit in the database.

Jeff

Re: tn5250

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 4:14 PM Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d...@ewoof.net> wrote:
>
> On 5 Feb 2024 08:58 +, from hen...@morsing.cc (Henrik Morsing):
> >> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/tn5250
> >>
> >> https://tracker.debian.org/news/219802/bug540953-removed-packages-from-unstable/
> >>
> >> https://bugs.debian.org/540953
> >
> > Ok, so it can be added again, thanks.
>
> I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure a debian-user list post is not
> the preferred way to request addition of a package that hasn't been in
> Debian for some 12-13 years.

Requesting a former package seems to be a grey area:
.

A former package seems to violate the criteria "It is not packaged
yet" to make the request. I'm guessing that it should say something
along the lines, "it is not currently packaged."

Jeff

Re: Many systemd units do not start anymore

[hw]

On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 17:28 +0100, Christoph Pleger wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> > > Does anyone have an idea what is possibly wrong?
> > 
> > Look for more information.
> 
> This is the output of systemctl list-jobs :
> 
> JOB UNIT TYPE  STATE
> 102 autofs.service   start waiting
> 82  mlocate.timerstart waiting
> 80  e2scrub_all.timerstart waiting
> 117 cron.service start waiting
> 1   graphical.target start waiting
> 140 apache2.service  start waiting
> 127 nullmailer.service   start waiting
> 81  phpsessionclean.timerstart waiting
> 94  nslcd.servicestart waiting
> 40  time-sync.target start waiting
> 86  logrotate.timer  start waiting
> 83  man-db.timer start waiting
> 84  apt-daily-upgrade.timer  start waiting
> 115 systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service start waiting
> 135 atd.service  start waiting
> 79  timers.targetstart waiting
> 87  apt-daily.timer  start waiting
> 39  systemd-time-wait-sync.service   start running
> 88  fstrim.timer start waiting
> 2   multi-user.targetstart waiting
> 
> As you can see, there are really many failed services.

They haven't failed, at least not yet.

>From the man page:


Job Commands
   list-jobs [PATTERN...]
   List jobs that are in progress. If one or more PATTERNs are
   specified, only jobs for units matching one of them are shown.

   When combined with --after or --before the list is augmented
   with information on which other job each job is waiting for,
   and which other jobs are waiting for it, see above.

   cancel [JOB...]
   Cancel one or more jobs specified on the command line by their
   numeric job IDs. If no job ID is specified, cancel all pending
   jobs.


So what are they waiting for?

(I have to admit that this is actually rather friendly to the users.)

Re: I've an editable .pdf form I need to fill out

[ghe2001]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256


> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 00:35:13 -0500
> gene heskett ghesk...@shentel.net wrote:
> 
> > I'm trying to get our states Attorney General to exert some influence
> > over a cell phone bill I don't owe. The AG has sent me a form letter
> > PDF with fill in the blanks for all the info.
> > 
> > Do we have an editor in our arsenal that can do that to a pdf?

LibreOffice Draw will do that, if you really and truly want to.  It's what I 
use to fill out a form every month, but It's a real PITA.  Easier than filling 
out the form by hand and driving to the bank, though...

--
Glenn English

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Re: what keyboard do you use?

[Steve McIntyre]

Lee wrote:
>
>I bought a Dell desktop in 2019 and the keyboard just died :(
>
>ssh in from another machine & do a 'sudo reboot now' and get an alert
>about 'Keyboard not found.'  on power up.  The keyboard also doesn't
>work in another machine so it's really & truly dead.
>
>I figure there's a high percentage of keyboard jockeys here so ..
>which keyboard do you like and why?

I used to love the old IBM Model M, and I used a few of those over the
years until I started having trouble with USB-PS/2 adapters. Then I
tried a new Unicomp USB keyboard. Very similar feel, as you'd expect,
but it didn't have the same build quality and the lower row of keys
started to die after ~5 years or so. It was also *very* loud, enough
to be a problem even in my home office.

About 2y aho I picked up a Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry MX Brown
switches. I'm loving it - full size and a good level of mechanical
tactile feedback WITHOUT ALL THE NOISE ALL THE TIME. Very much
recommended.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com
Can't keep my eyes from the circling sky,
Tongue-tied & twisted, Just an earth-bound misfit, I...

Re: I've an editable .pdf form I need to fill out

[hohe72]

pdftk form.pdf fill_form data.fdf output form.filled.pdf # fill in
pdftk form.pdf generate_fdf output data.fdf  # read

It is a CMDL way.
It's clumsy, cause form-IDs don't match form labels.
At least it tells you if a form is fund in the pdf.
For the sake of completeness.


On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 00:35:13 -0500
gene heskett  wrote:

> I'm trying to get our states Attorney General to exert some influence 
> over a cell phone bill I don't owe. The AG has sent me a form letter
> PDF with fill in the blanks for all the info.
> 
> Do we have an editor in our arsenal that can do that to a pdf?
> 
> Thanks all.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.



pgpmC9jWBeBkU.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[hw]

On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 08:40 -0800, James H. H. Lampert wrote:
> On 2/2/24 5:25 PM, Lee wrote:
> > I figure there's a high percentage of keyboard jockeys here so ..
> > which keyboard do you like and why?
> 
> Unicomp. They acquired the rights and the tooling for the IBM buckling 
> spring technology.
> 
> If only they also offered mice that were as rugged as their keyboards.

... and trackballs like CST ones, and full metal versions.

Re: tn5250

[Michael Kjörling]

On 5 Feb 2024 08:58 +, from hen...@morsing.cc (Henrik Morsing):
>> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/tn5250
>> 
>> https://tracker.debian.org/news/219802/bug540953-removed-packages-from-unstable/
>> 
>> https://bugs.debian.org/540953
> 
> Ok, so it can be added again, thanks.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure a debian-user list post is not
the preferred way to request addition of a package that hasn't been in
Debian for some 12-13 years.

-- 
Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: Many systemd units do not start anymore

[Michael Biebl]

Am 05.02.24 um 21:38 schrieb Michael Biebl:

This is the output of systemctl list-jobs :

JOB UNIT TYPE  STATE
102 autofs.service   start waiting
82  mlocate.timer    start waiting
80  e2scrub_all.timer    start waiting
117 cron.service start waiting
1   graphical.target start waiting
140 apache2.service  start waiting
127 nullmailer.service   start waiting
81  phpsessionclean.timer    start waiting
94  nslcd.service    start waiting
40  time-sync.target start waiting
86  logrotate.timer  start waiting
83  man-db.timer start waiting
84  apt-daily-upgrade.timer  start waiting
115 systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service start waiting
135 atd.service  start waiting
79  timers.target    start waiting
87  apt-daily.timer  start waiting
39  systemd-time-wait-sync.service   start running
88  fstrim.timer start waiting
2   multi-user.target    start waiting

As you can see, there are really many failed services. It seems that
systemd-time-wait-sync.service is waiting for systemd-timesyncd to
synchronize the clock, but systemd-timesyncd is not installed at all.


Those services are not failed, they are waiting for their dependencies.

systemd-time-wait-sync.service is running but has not completed.
I wonder if that is
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=940840
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/14061

Which NTP service do you use?
Could you try with systemd-timesyncd?



If you are not using systemd-timesyncd, you could also consider 
disabling systemd-time-wait-sync.service (via systemctl disable).


The default is disabled in Debian:

# systemctl status systemd-time-wait-sync.service
○ systemd-time-wait-sync.service - Wait Until Kernel Time Synchronized
 Loaded: loaded 
(/usr/lib/systemd/system/systemd-time-wait-sync.service; disabled; 
preset: disabled)

 Active: inactive (dead)
   Docs: man:systemd-time-wait-sync.service(8)





OpenPGP_signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout?

[Michael Kjörling]

On 5 Feb 2024 21:06 +0100, from h...@adminart.net (hw):
> Picking from/adding a bunch of available keyboard layouts is an
> entirely obsolete feature.  I never need that.  I only need to be able
> to change the keyboard layout after picking one once in the installer.
> 
> In case I switch to a different keyboard which I might do every so
> many years when I feel like doing that, I also need to change it for
> the console in the first place.  How that is done changes like all the
> time, and when it's not right, the keyboard won't work right,
> especially in that the function keys to switch between consoles don't
> work[1].  So that's a big issue right there --- and then I need to be
> able to change the keyboard layout in wayland sessions unless I use an
> US keyboard.  But I only have one of those.

Pretty sure /etc/default/keyboard has been a thing on Debian for just
about forever. I haven't dug into the details but it seems to date
back to 2006 which would put its first appearance at circa Sarge or
Etch (3.1/mid-2005 or 4.0/early-2007 respectively); possibly even
earlier, but that's as far back as the console-setup package history
goes.

The one on my Bookworm system even has a comment right there on how to
use an entirely custom keymap, and that's also mentioned in the
keyboard(5) man page.

-- 
Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: Many systemd units do not start anymore

[Michael Biebl]

This is the output of systemctl list-jobs :

JOB UNIT TYPE  STATE
102 autofs.service   start waiting
82  mlocate.timerstart waiting
80  e2scrub_all.timerstart waiting
117 cron.service start waiting
1   graphical.target start waiting
140 apache2.service  start waiting
127 nullmailer.service   start waiting
81  phpsessionclean.timerstart waiting
94  nslcd.servicestart waiting
40  time-sync.target start waiting
86  logrotate.timer  start waiting
83  man-db.timer start waiting
84  apt-daily-upgrade.timer  start waiting
115 systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service start waiting
135 atd.service  start waiting
79  timers.targetstart waiting
87  apt-daily.timer  start waiting
39  systemd-time-wait-sync.service   start running
88  fstrim.timer start waiting
2   multi-user.targetstart waiting

As you can see, there are really many failed services. It seems that
systemd-time-wait-sync.service is waiting for systemd-timesyncd to
synchronize the clock, but systemd-timesyncd is not installed at all.


Those services are not failed, they are waiting for their dependencies.

systemd-time-wait-sync.service is running but has not completed.
I wonder if that is
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=940840
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/14061

Which NTP service do you use?
Could you try with systemd-timesyncd?

Michael


OpenPGP_signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[hw]

On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 08:46 -0500, songbird wrote:
> hw wrote:
> ...
> > It's a badly missing feature from gnome settings that we can't change
> > the key bindings.  The layout must be defined somewhere, though.
> > Maybe someone knows where that is?
> 
>   in MATE there's keyboard settings you can use to switch
> around keyboards and common keys being swapped.

Does that work with wayland?

With a German keyboard, one of the keys I need to change is ~.
There's also ` when you get to do with databases, and a bunch of
others, like changing comma to dot and more that don't come to mind
atm.

Have you ever entered ipv4 addresses (and floats) on a German
keyboard?  It's insane.

> i don't use them now, but did in the past.  likely GNOME has
> something similar but i haven't touched that desktop in quite a long
> time.

Gnome has actually become usable about 2 years ago, though I miss
fvwm, and the lack of configurability with Gnome sucks badly.  I'd
like KDE much better, but KDE has always been rather slow and too
buggy.  When I tried KDE with wayland it didn't really work at all.

The only alternative I know of is sway, but I don't get along with
tiling WMs.  I like the idea; the problem is that they need to do
floating windows just as well, and they don't do that.

I had fvwm configured so it would manage the windows for me instead of
having to manage them myself, including tiling, but as long there's
no wayland version of fvwm, we're stuck with KDE and Gnome ...

Maybe give Gnome another try.  It does have its advantages, and it
can't hurt to check it out.

The additional keys on my 122 key keyboard help with Gnome (and other
things) a great deal.  So if you want to get a kind of Model M, get
122 keys.

Who still makes 122 key keyboards except Unicomp?

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)

[Ralph Aichinger]

On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 21:06 +0100, hw wrote:
> And what the hell is 'Strg' supposed to mean?

"Strg" is short for "Steuerung", just the literal translation of 
"control".

/ralph

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)

[David Wright]

On Mon 05 Feb 2024 at 21:06:30 (+0100), hw wrote:
> On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 15:26 +0100, Loris Bennett wrote:
> > hw  writes:
> > > On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 18:23 +, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> > > > On 4 Feb 2024 12:08 -0600, from n...@n0nb.us (Nate Bargmann):
> > > > > xmodmap trickery?  I am running GNOME on Wayland.
> > > > 
> > > > Or whatever the equivalent in Wayland (or GNOME) might be. Either way,
> > > > surely there must be _some_ way to map (sets of) keyboard scan codes
> > > > to symbols or actions, and that way is almost certainly reconfigurable
> > > > because otherwise everyone would be stuck with the exact same keyboard
> > > > layout, which would make for a rather poor internationalization/
> > > > localization experience.
> > > 
> > > We are stuck with it :(  Last time I checked, KDE isn't any better.
> > > 
> > > With xmodmap, I was able to adjust the layout as needed.  With
> > > wayland, I can't do that anymore and I'm stuck with an US layout ---
> > > which my keyboard fortunately physically has --- because some keys on
> > > German keyboards are so badly placed and configured that I need to be
> > > able to change the layout if want to use a German keyboard with a
> > > German layout.
> > 
> > Maybe I have misunderstood the problem, but I use Gnome with Wayland and
> > regularly switch between US and German layouts.  I just added the German
> > layout in the 'Keyboard' section of Gnome's Settings and switch with the
> > default shortcut of 'Super + space'.
> 
> Yes, it's a misunderstanding: How can we change the keyboard layout?
> 
> We can only pick or add another of the available layouts, but we can't
> change them.  If I were using a German keyboard, I could pick a German
> layout, and it would be a good starting point --- but I still won't be
> able to change the layout.  Some characters on a German keyboard (and
> layout) are placed very badly, and I need to change some of them for
> the keyboard to be usable.
> 
> And try to figure out how to press ^] on a German keyboard, for
> example, like telnet used to tell you.  It's no problem at all with an
> US keyboard without any modification.  With a German keyboard, you
> have to press something like AltGr+Shift+Strg+] ...  It took me like
> 30 years or so before I managed.  And what the hell is 'Strg' supposed
> to mean?

Control.

> So how do we change keyboard layouts when using wayland?  Why is there
> no way to do that in gnome settings (or KDEs equivalent) like there
> should be?
> 
> Picking from/adding a bunch of available keyboard layouts is an
> entirely obsolete feature.  I never need that.  I only need to be able
> to change the keyboard layout after picking one once in the installer.
> 
> In case I switch to a different keyboard which I might do every so
> many years when I feel like doing that, I also need to change it for
> the console in the first place.  How that is done changes like all the
> time, and when it's not right, the keyboard won't work right,
> especially in that the function keys to switch between consoles don't
> work[1].  So that's a big issue right there --- and then I need to be
> able to change the keyboard layout in wayland sessions unless I use an
> US keyboard.  But I only have one of those.
> 
> It's certainly a good feature for the 7 people who keep between
> switching different keyboard layouts and/or keyboards frequently.  But
> the relevant feature everyone needs is now entirely missing.
> 
> [1]: Maybe that changed with wayland; I haven't tried yet.

 "The German layout differs from the English (US and UK) layouts in
  four major ways:

The positions of the "Z" and "Y" keys are switched. In English,
the letter "y" is very common and the letter "z" is relatively
rare, whereas in German the letter "z" is very common and the
letter "y" is very uncommon.[1] The German layout places "z" in a
position where it can be struck by the index finger, rather than
by the weaker little finger.

Part of the keyboard is adapted to include umlauted vowels (ä, ö,
ü) and the sharp s (ß). (Some newer types of German keyboards
offer the fixed assignment Alt+++H → ẞ for its capitalized
version.)

Some of special key inscriptions are changed to a graphical symbol
(e.g. ⇪ Caps Lock is an upward arrow, ← Backspace a leftward
arrow). Most of the other abbreviations are replaced by German
abbreviations (thus e.g. "Ctrl" is translated to its German
equivalent "Strg", for Steuerung). "Esc" remains as such. (See:
"Key labels" below)

Like many other non-American keyboards, German keyboards change
the right Alt key into an Alt Gr key to access a third level of
key assignments. This is necessary because the umlauts and some
other special characters leave no room to have all the special
symbols of ASCII, needed by programmers among others, available on
the first or second (shifted) levels without unduly increasing the
size of the key

How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)

[hw]

On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 15:26 +0100, Loris Bennett wrote:
> hw  writes:
> 
> > On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 18:23 +, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> > > On 4 Feb 2024 12:08 -0600, from n...@n0nb.us (Nate Bargmann):
> > > > xmodmap trickery?  I am running GNOME on Wayland.
> > > 
> > > Or whatever the equivalent in Wayland (or GNOME) might be. Either way,
> > > surely there must be _some_ way to map (sets of) keyboard scan codes
> > > to symbols or actions, and that way is almost certainly reconfigurable
> > > because otherwise everyone would be stuck with the exact same keyboard
> > > layout, which would make for a rather poor internationalization/
> > > localization experience.
> > 
> > We are stuck with it :(  Last time I checked, KDE isn't any better.
> > 
> > With xmodmap, I was able to adjust the layout as needed.  With
> > wayland, I can't do that anymore and I'm stuck with an US layout ---
> > which my keyboard fortunately physically has --- because some keys on
> > German keyboards are so badly placed and configured that I need to be
> > able to change the layout if want to use a German keyboard with a
> > German layout.
> 
> Maybe I have misunderstood the problem, but I use Gnome with Wayland and
> regularly switch between US and German layouts.  I just added the German
> layout in the 'Keyboard' section of Gnome's Settings and switch with the
> default shortcut of 'Super + space'.

Yes, it's a misunderstanding: How can we change the keyboard layout?

We can only pick or add another of the available layouts, but we can't
change them.  If I were using a German keyboard, I could pick a German
layout, and it would be a good starting point --- but I still won't be
able to change the layout.  Some characters on a German keyboard (and
layout) are placed very badly, and I need to change some of them for
the keyboard to be usable.

And try to figure out how to press ^] on a German keyboard, for
example, like telnet used to tell you.  It's no problem at all with an
US keyboard without any modification.  With a German keyboard, you
have to press something like AltGr+Shift+Strg+] ...  It took me like
30 years or so before I managed.  And what the hell is 'Strg' supposed
to mean?

So how do we change keyboard layouts when using wayland?  Why is there
no way to do that in gnome settings (or KDEs equivalent) like there
should be?

Picking from/adding a bunch of available keyboard layouts is an
entirely obsolete feature.  I never need that.  I only need to be able
to change the keyboard layout after picking one once in the installer.

In case I switch to a different keyboard which I might do every so
many years when I feel like doing that, I also need to change it for
the console in the first place.  How that is done changes like all the
time, and when it's not right, the keyboard won't work right,
especially in that the function keys to switch between consoles don't
work[1].  So that's a big issue right there --- and then I need to be
able to change the keyboard layout in wayland sessions unless I use an
US keyboard.  But I only have one of those.

It's certainly a good feature for the 7 people who keep between
switching different keyboard layouts and/or keyboards frequently.  But
the relevant feature everyone needs is now entirely missing.


[1]: Maybe that changed with wayland; I haven't tried yet.

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[hw]

On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 08:40 -0500, songbird wrote:
> hw wrote:
> > On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 09:43 -0500, songbird wrote:
> ...
> > >   if they made them with a metal base mine would probably
> > > still be working, but the plastic base is too flexible for
> > > me.  i have two dead ones.  :(  the pressure fitted ribbon
> > > cable connection is a really bad design and those plastic
> > > tabs break off.
> > > 
> > >   otherwise the feel is good.  very loud when i'm writing...
> > 
> > IIRC IBM omitted the metal plate long time ago.  What are you doing
> > that it's too wobbly for you?
> 
>   it's not wobbly it is the entire keyboard flexes when you
> use it in a non-conventional manner.  i do not use them on a
> flat desktop, i have them laying across my lap as a am laying
> here on my comfy perch

Hm, ok, I still find it amazing that it's so wobbly that the
wobblyness is causing issues since it's still relatively sturdy
compared to other keyboards.  They're not inflexible, though, so using
like them like this, it's not inconvieable that they break.

That pretty much leaves you with having to put a metal plate (like a
piece of 3mm aluminum) under any keyboard, and that'll probably make
it feel cold in your lap.

> [...]
>   i won't contact Unicomp again because despite their claims
> of having goals of great customer service i tried to resolve
> issues of a bad key and this repeated issue of malfunctioning
> connections and didn't get any satisfaction.  the key problem
> was noted and should have been covered under the 1yr warranty,
> but when i brought it up i got static and resistance.  three
> strikes and i'm done with them.

I'm sorry to hear that.  It seems like they cut back on the models and
options a bit, so perhaps they also cut back on customer service.  I
can't tell since I was so lucky as to get mine through German ebay,
and it cost less than what they cost new though it was practically
new.  The shipping alone may cost more than the keyboard itself if I
were to order directly from them :(

>   i did like the restored keyboard project[*] and read through
> their website and history to follow it for a few hours but
> the overall price is just too much ($300-500).

Oh!  I didn't notice that they have come this far and now even offer
different models!  I didn't like the layout of the Model F they
planned a few years ago, and I found the price too steep for a
keyboard the layout of which I don't want.

I'll have to check out their web site; if I could get a F104 Model M
in all metal for 300, it may be worth thinking about getting one ---
but the shipping will probably forbid it.

I do like full size keyboards like the Model M and even more so the
122 key version.  It kinda sucks that every other keyboard is smaller,
especially since the keys are squeezed so tightly together that it can
be difficult to type on it.  The Cherry G80, for example, has that
problem --- it's almost as if Casio designed it like their watches
since they're trying to sell those with bracelets sized for puppets
and small children, which are way too short for anyone with normal
size wrists.

> $80 for what i have now was acceptable.

Which one is that?  It must be an unusually sturdy one.  Or did you
put a metal plate under it?

> [*] https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/

Re: Openstack images default password

[Оксана Патакі]

У меня есть вопрос а почему А пароль не Откуда взять потому что я просто
взял образ АРМ 64 хотел запустить на qemu

Re: Many systemd units do not start anymore

[Max Nikulin]

On 05/02/2024 23:28, Christoph Pleger wrote:


This is the output of systemctl list-jobs :

JOB UNIT TYPE  STATE
102 autofs.service   start waiting
82  mlocate.timerstart waiting
80  e2scrub_all.timerstart waiting
117 cron.service start waiting
1   graphical.target start waiting
140 apache2.service  start waiting


When timers are excluded, most services in the list depends on network. 
Is it configured? What services fail?


systemctl --failed

Is there anything suspicious in output of

journalctl --boot
dmesg

Are there active processes in "top" output?

I am unsure if the following commands will provide anything useful in 
such state


systemd-analyze blame
systemd-analyze critical-chain

A wild shot... Is it a bare metal system or a virtualized host?

hostnamectl
cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[James H. H. Lampert]

On 2/4/24 9:56 AM, Michael Kjörling wrote:


If you contact them and ask, they can probably tell you whether the
key caps . . . can be flipped physically.


Unicomp can and will make custom keycaps.

--
JHHL

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[James H. H. Lampert]

I also wouldn't mind one bit if somebody came up with a computer 
keyboard that exactly duplicates the key arrangement and feel of a 
Linotype keyboard.


Not for practical daily use, mind you (I'll stick with my Unicomps); 
rather, as a practice instrument for those who occasionally run Linotype 
and Intertype machines, and for interpretive exhibits in graphic arts 
museums (given that I spend my Saturdays docenting at the International 
Printing Museum, I'd find both useful).


"etaoin shrdlu"

--
JHHL

Re: Many systemd units do not start anymore

[Christoph Pleger]

Hello,

> > Does anyone have an idea what is possibly wrong?
> 
> Look for more information.

This is the output of systemctl list-jobs :

JOB UNIT TYPE  STATE
102 autofs.service   start waiting
82  mlocate.timerstart waiting
80  e2scrub_all.timerstart waiting
117 cron.service start waiting
1   graphical.target start waiting
140 apache2.service  start waiting
127 nullmailer.service   start waiting
81  phpsessionclean.timerstart waiting
94  nslcd.servicestart waiting
40  time-sync.target start waiting
86  logrotate.timer  start waiting
83  man-db.timer start waiting
84  apt-daily-upgrade.timer  start waiting
115 systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service start waiting
135 atd.service  start waiting
79  timers.targetstart waiting
87  apt-daily.timer  start waiting
39  systemd-time-wait-sync.service   start running
88  fstrim.timer start waiting
2   multi-user.targetstart waiting

As you can see, there are really many failed services. It seems that
systemd-time-wait-sync.service is waiting for systemd-timesyncd to
synchronize the clock, but systemd-timesyncd is not installed at all.

Regards
  Christoph


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Re: Many systemd units do not start anymore

[Stanislav Vlasov]

пн, 5 февр. 2024 г. в 20:57, Christoph Pleger
:

> Unfortunately, there is no useful further information:
>
> systemctl status
> ● autofs.service - Automounts filesystems on demand
>  Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/autofs.service; enabled;
> vendor preset>
>  Active: inactive (dead)
>Docs: man:autofs(8)

I don't know about other services (thread skipped), but autofs MUST be
configured before start.
And does not start without configuration,

-- 
Stanislav

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[James H. H. Lampert]

On 2/2/24 5:25 PM, Lee wrote:

I figure there's a high percentage of keyboard jockeys here so ..
which keyboard do you like and why?


Unicomp. They acquired the rights and the tooling for the IBM buckling 
spring technology.


If only they also offered mice that were as rugged as their keyboards.

--
JHHL

Re: Many systemd units do not start anymore

[Christoph Pleger]

Hello,

Am Montag, dem 05.02.2024 um 07:18 -0500 schrieb Greg Wooledge:
> On Mon, Feb 05, 2024 at 12:53:33PM +0100, Christoph Pleger wrote:
> > on one of my server machines, suddenly many systemd units (e.g. cron, 
> > autofs)
> > do not start any more, neither at boot nor when trying to start manually
> > with "systemctl start ", this hangs till I abort with Ctrl-C -
> 
> > Does anyone have an idea what is possibly wrong?
> 
> Look for more information.  Start with
> 
> systemctl status cron
> journalctl -u cron

Unfortunately, there is no useful further information:

systemctl status
● autofs.service - Automounts filesystems on demand
 Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/autofs.service; enabled;
vendor preset>
 Active: inactive (dead)
   Docs: man:autofs(8)

journalctl -u autofs
-- Journal begins at Mon 2024-02-05 12:33:34 CET, ends at Mon 2024-02-
05 16:38:>
-- No entries --

This looks almost the same for every failed service, even while a
"systemctl start " is running in another terminal window.

Regards
  Christoph


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[Peter Ehlert]

On 2/2/24 17:25, Lee wrote:

I bought a Dell desktop in 2019 and the keyboard just died :(

ssh in from another machine & do a 'sudo reboot now' and get an alert
about 'Keyboard not found.'  on power up.  The keyboard also doesn't
work in another machine so it's really & truly dead.

I figure there's a high percentage of keyboard jockeys here so ..
which keyboard do you like and why?


Logitech K270

full size, simple, $22 USD, fits me just fine




I have a Logitech k740 attached to my Windows machine which is ok.
Not great but OK.
I found a spare Logitech k120 keyboard in the closet; its better than
nothing but too thick for regular use.
And the old Dell keyboard from the Windows machine - also too thick,
the keys are too cramped and lettering has worn off on about 1/4 of
the keys (which is why I got the Logitech 740)

Thanks
Lee

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[Loris Bennett]

hw  writes:

> On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 18:23 +, Michael Kjörling wrote:
>> On 4 Feb 2024 12:08 -0600, from n...@n0nb.us (Nate Bargmann):
>> > xmodmap trickery?  I am running GNOME on Wayland.
>> 
>> Or whatever the equivalent in Wayland (or GNOME) might be. Either way,
>> surely there must be _some_ way to map (sets of) keyboard scan codes
>> to symbols or actions, and that way is almost certainly reconfigurable
>> because otherwise everyone would be stuck with the exact same keyboard
>> layout, which would make for a rather poor internationalization/
>> localization experience.
>
> We are stuck with it :(  Last time I checked, KDE isn't any better.
>
> With xmodmap, I was able to adjust the layout as needed.  With
> wayland, I can't do that anymore and I'm stuck with an US layout ---
> which my keyboard fortunately physically has --- because some keys on
> German keyboards are so badly placed and configured that I need to be
> able to change the layout if want to use a German keyboard with a
> German layout.

Maybe I have misunderstood the problem, but I use Gnome with Wayland and
regularly switch between US and German layouts.  I just added the German
layout in the 'Keyboard' section of Gnome's Settings and switch with the
default shortcut of 'Super + space'.

> It's one of these basic things we shouldn't need to have any trouble
> at all with, and it really pisses me off.
>
> All the developers are proabably Americans and never come across this
> problem.  Why else won't they let us change the keyobard layout as we
> need to.

-- 
This signature is currently under constuction.

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[songbird]

hw wrote:
> On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 09:43 -0500, songbird wrote:
...
>>   if they made them with a metal base mine would probably
>> still be working, but the plastic base is too flexible for
>> me.  i have two dead ones.  :(  the pressure fitted ribbon
>> cable connection is a really bad design and those plastic
>> tabs break off.
>> 
>>   otherwise the feel is good.  very loud when i'm writing...
>
> IIRC IBM omitted the metal plate long time ago.  What are you doing
> that it's too wobbly for you?

  it's not wobbly it is the entire keyboard flexes when you
use it in a non-conventional manner.  i do not use them on a
flat desktop, i have them laying across my lap as a am laying
here on my comfy perch (i find sitting uncomfortable and 
eventually painful so i don't do it any more - instead i
sprawl out and have some pillows propping me up a little bit).

  i didn't really figure this out until it was too late for
the second keyboard (a replacement for the first which flaked
out right after the warranty period was up).  after i got the
2nd keyboard i took the first one apart hoping i could fix it
but there were broken plastic tabs and then the pressure
ribbon connection so i just left it aside for parts for the 
new one.  the new one also started having issues within about
a year and a half.

  the first keyboard may have been damaged in shipping based
upon the broken plastic tabs inside, but i can't say for sure
all i know is that it is not built sturdy enough for my use.

  if i knew that flexing was bad i could have come up with a
board or piece of metal to put underneath it to begin with.
this is why i'm mentioning it because there may be someone
else who sees this topic/thread who's doing something like i
am and i don't want them to be out of a keyboard that other-
wise may last quite a long time.

  if i can find a way to get keyboards functional again with-
out costing so much (the pressure ribbon connection just is
not seeming reliable enough) i'd love to have them working
again.  youtube vids are not really covering how to do this
sort of repair (making that connection reliable again).

  i won't contact Unicomp again because despite their claims
of having goals of great customer service i tried to resolve
issues of a bad key and this repeated issue of malfunctioning
connections and didn't get any satisfaction.  the key problem
was noted and should have been covered under the 1yr warranty,
but when i brought it up i got static and resistance.  three
strikes and i'm done with them.

  i did like the restored keyboard project[*] and read through
their website and history to follow it for a few hours but
the overall price is just too much ($300-500).  $80 for what
i have now was acceptable.

[*] https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/


  songbird

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[songbird]

hw wrote:
...
> It's a badly missing feature from gnome settings that we can't change
> the key bindings.  The layout must be defined somewhere, though.
> Maybe someone knows where that is?

  in MATE there's keyboard settings you can use to switch
around keyboards and common keys being swapped.  i don't use
them now, but did in the past.  likely GNOME has something
similar but i haven't touched that desktop in quite a long
time.


  songbird

Re: Many systemd units do not start anymore

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2024 at 12:53:33PM +0100, Christoph Pleger wrote:
> on one of my server machines, suddenly many systemd units (e.g. cron, autofs)
> do not start any more, neither at boot nor when trying to start manually
> with "systemctl start ", this hangs till I abort with Ctrl-C -

> Does anyone have an idea what is possibly wrong?

Look for more information.  Start with

systemctl status cron
journalctl -u cron

Just on general principle, it wouldn't hurt to look at the output of
dmesg as well, to see if the kernel is complaining.  And df, to see
whether any file systems are full or nonresponsive.

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[Dan Ritter]

Henrik Morsing wrote: 
> Happy Hacking lite for the last 20+ years, absolutely nothing else will 
> suffice. And I work faster than any colleague I've ever met because of it.
> 
> And it has to be that exact version (they don't make it anymore) because of 
> the right-side Fn key and the separate arrow keys.
> 
> So it will be a task over the next 50 years getting my current one 
> repaired/replaced should it break.

You might want to buy a spare as soon as you see one and wrap it
up against dust and mechanical accidents.

-dsr-

Many systemd units do not start anymore

[Christoph Pleger]

Hello,

on one of my server machines, suddenly many systemd units (e.g. cron, autofs)
do not start any more, neither at boot nor when trying to start manually
with "systemctl start ", this hangs till I abort with Ctrl-C -
though the commands defined in ExecStart work when I type them in directly.
From my judgement, I also believe that it takes unusually long till 
then command "systemctl status " returns a result.

I already removed systemd completely (apt-get --purge --auto-remove remove 
*systemd*) und switched to SYS V Init, in which all services started 
successfully.
But after switching back to systemd, I again had the problem of non-starting 
services.

Does anyone have an idea what is possibly wrong?

Regards
  Christoph 



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: install Kernel and GRUB in chroot.

[Max Nikulin]

On 05/02/2024 17:40, Dmitry wrote:

 > It would not work with secure boot

Yes.

But secure boot is usually turned off. It is a standard advice during 
Linux installation.


That advice may be standard for distributions that do not provide signed 
shim and grub. Likely it is applicable for Arch and derivatives. Debian 
supports installation with enabled secure boot.


At first I suspected that you enrolled your own MOK and maybe even wiped 
out Microsoft keys.


Perhaps you may get encrypted /boot in Debian similar to what you have 
in Manjaro, but certainly it is not default configuration.

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[hw]

On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 18:23 +, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> On 4 Feb 2024 12:08 -0600, from n...@n0nb.us (Nate Bargmann):
> > xmodmap trickery?  I am running GNOME on Wayland.
> 
> Or whatever the equivalent in Wayland (or GNOME) might be. Either way,
> surely there must be _some_ way to map (sets of) keyboard scan codes
> to symbols or actions, and that way is almost certainly reconfigurable
> because otherwise everyone would be stuck with the exact same keyboard
> layout, which would make for a rather poor internationalization/
> localization experience.

We are stuck with it :(  Last time I checked, KDE isn't any better.

With xmodmap, I was able to adjust the layout as needed.  With
wayland, I can't do that anymore and I'm stuck with an US layout ---
which my keyboard fortunately physically has --- because some keys on
German keyboards are so badly placed and configured that I need to be
able to change the layout if want to use a German keyboard with a
German layout.

It's one of these basic things we shouldn't need to have any trouble
at all with, and it really pisses me off.

All the developers are proabably Americans and never come across this
problem.  Why else won't they let us change the keyobard layout as we
need to.

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[Henrik Morsing]

On Fri, Feb 02, 2024 at 08:25:09PM -0500, Lee wrote:


I have a Logitech k740 attached to my Windows machine which is ok.
Not great but OK.
I found a spare Logitech k120 keyboard in the closet; its better than
nothing but too thick for regular use.
And the old Dell keyboard from the Windows machine - also too thick,
the keys are too cramped and lettering has worn off on about 1/4 of
the keys (which is why I got the Logitech 740)



Happy Hacking lite for the last 20+ years, absolutely nothing else will 
suffice. And I work faster than any colleague I've ever met because of it.

And it has to be that exact version (they don't make it anymore) because of the 
right-side Fn key and the separate arrow keys.

So it will be a task over the next 50 years getting my current one 
repaired/replaced should it break.

Regards,
Henrik Morsing

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[hw]

On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 11:36 -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> * On 2024 04 Feb 04:23 -0600, hw wrote:
> > On Fri, 2024-02-02 at 20:09 -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > I have several of the now classic IBM Model M keyboards I procured in
> > > the '90s.  Modern BIOSes don't like them even with a PS/2 to USB
> > > adapter so I gave up on them.
> > 
> > They might work with a so-called active adapter.  IIRC it has
> > something to do with the adpater suppling power.  With some research
> > and an investment of like $5, you can probably still use your
> > keyboards.
> 
> As I use GNOME, I need the left menu key as I have the hotspot disabled
> to open the overview.  My old Model Ms lack that key.
> 
> > Unicomp[1] still makes these keyboards, and you can get them for USB.
> 
> I don't like their swapping of the right Alt and Menu keys unless the
> keyboard can be configured to swap them back.  Otherwise, I would prefer
> the right Menu key in that position be removed and that area given back
> to the Space bar.  I don't find any documentation on their Web site
> about that capability.

Contact them, maybe you can get a layout you want --- or check out the
122 key version closeley.

> I do like about the Daskeyboard is that instead of being the right Menu
> key that key is a Function key much like a laptop and it activates media
> control keys on several of the function keys.  It's quite handy to raise
> or lower the speaker volume when playing a video full screen.
> 
> > I'm using one right now (with 122 keys), and among all the different
> > keyboards I used over the last 40 years, I've never found anything
> > better than these buckling spring ones.
> 
> No question.  The M is the ultimate but unless someone can point me to a
> document that shows swapping those two keys, I won't be buying.

I'm not sure what you mean.  I don't have these stupid extra keys
nobody wants or needs they put into the row with the space bar --- I
guess you mean those?  Those get in the way all the time and I hate
them.  On the 122 key version, they are at the bottom of the small
block of keys an the left where they are not in the way.

You can pull all the keycaps and swap them around if you like.  If
you're still using Xorg, you should be able to reconfigure the key
bindings.

I couldn't find out how to do that with wayland :(  Without being able
to modify the key bindings, I'm stuck with an US layout, and keyboards
with a physical US layout are almost impossible to get here.

It's a badly missing feature from gnome settings that we can't change
the key bindings.  The layout must be defined somewhere, though.
Maybe someone knows where that is?

Re: install Kernel and GRUB in chroot.

[Ralph Aichinger]

On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 17:40 +0700, Dmitry wrote:
> 
> But secure boot is usually turned off. It is a standard advice during
> Linux 
> installation.
> 
Will probably be increasingly common though, I've got a Microsoft
Surface Laptop that works fine with Debian, but if you switch off
secure boot, it displays some big red scary warning screen before the
bootloader.

/ralph

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[hw]

On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 09:43 -0500, songbird wrote:
> hw wrote:
> > On Fri, 2024-02-02 at 20:09 -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > I have several of the now classic IBM Model M keyboards I procured in
> > > the '90s.  Modern BIOSes don't like them even with a PS/2 to USB
> > > adapter so I gave up on them.
> > 
> > They might work with a so-called active adapter.  IIRC it has
> > something to do with the adpater suppling power.  With some research
> > and an investment of like $5, you can probably still use your
> > keyboards.
> > 
> > Unicomp[1] still makes these keyboards, and you can get them for USB.
> > 
> > I'm using one right now (with 122 keys), and among all the different
> > keyboards I used over the last 40 years, I've never found anything
> > better than these buckling spring ones.
> 
>   if they made them with a metal base mine would probably
> still be working, but the plastic base is too flexible for
> me.  i have two dead ones.  :(  the pressure fitted ribbon
> cable connection is a really bad design and those plastic
> tabs break off.
> 
>   otherwise the feel is good.  very loud when i'm writing...

IIRC IBM omitted the metal plate long time ago.  What are you doing
that it's too wobbly for you?

Re: install Kernel and GRUB in chroot.

[Dmitry]

> It would not work with secure boot

Yes.

But secure boot is usually turned off. It is a standard advice during Linux 
installation.

about 64bits time_t transition and deborphan

[Patrice Duroux]

Hi,

Out of curiosity, I started this transition on some packages from
experimental and I observed that deborphan is not without
«disruption». Indeed, the added suffix t64 to their name means that
the updated libraries are listed by deborphan even if they are
required by other packages.
I suspect that deborphan did not take into account the Provides: field.
Is this something to be reported to deborphan as it could also be in
some other cases than this time_t transition? or wait and see... ;-)

Regards,
Patrice

Re: tn5250

[Henrik Morsing]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2024 at 08:55:33AM +, Michael Kjörling wrote:

On 5 Feb 2024 08:28 +, from hen...@morsing.cc (Henrik Morsing):

Does anyone know the reason from removing the tn5250 emulator from
the package system? It is still maintained and available in other
distros.


https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/tn5250

https://tracker.debian.org/news/219802/bug540953-removed-packages-from-unstable/

https://bugs.debian.org/540953



https://github.com/tn5250/tn5250?tab=readme-ov-file

Ok, so it can be added again, thanks.

Regards,
Henrik Morsing

Re: tn5250

[Michael Kjörling]

On 5 Feb 2024 08:28 +, from hen...@morsing.cc (Henrik Morsing):
> Does anyone know the reason from removing the tn5250 emulator from
> the package system? It is still maintained and available in other
> distros.

https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/tn5250

https://tracker.debian.org/news/219802/bug540953-removed-packages-from-unstable/

https://bugs.debian.org/540953

-- 
Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

tn5250

[Henrik Morsing]

Good morning,

Does anyone know the reason from removing the tn5250 emulator from the package 
system? It is still maintained and available in other distros.

Regards,
Henrik Morsing
--