Re: about 10th new install of bullseye
On 6/8/24 19:11, Tom Dial wrote:
On 6/7/24 23:41, gene heskett wrote:
On 6/7/24 20:38, Tom Dial wrote:
On 6/6/24 23:14, gene heskett wrote:
On 6/6/24 19:00, Tom Dial wrote:
On 6/5/24 19:53, gene heskett wrote:
On 6/5/24 17:25, Tom Dial wrote:
On 6/5/24 08:58, gene heskett wrote:
On 6/5/24 02:05, Tom Dial wrote:
On 6/4/24 04:26, gene heskett wrote:
On 2/19/22 06:31, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
Hi Gene,
If this was someone calling you from a TV station saying they
had a TV
transmitter that was varying in power output - you'd have a
mental checklist.
You'd get down there, perhaps schedule some sort of power
down / reduced
power operation and then you'd check - power supplies, feeder
cables, hot
spots on cables - whatever. Divide and conquer- working back
to a baseline
of known working conditions and eliminating causes.
My suggestion to you of a reinstall is partly designed to get
you out of this
"X happens, I did Y, now I've got Z" - to get to a known
initial state.
Take out all the serial converters to UPS, lathe and so on.
Wireless keyboard
doesn't present as serial in the same way that brltty does -
if it did, I'd
have brltty with every install on this laptop.
Copy off your home directory as you did before - maybe using
tar.gz and preserving permissions. Start with the .iso that
includes firmware - the unofficial one.
Build back slowly - do an expert text mode install if you
can. Then add your
Trinity desktop - I don't think any of us can help you there,
since we don't
run trinity.
Check and you should find that brltty isn't installed at all.
Then re-add thingsgradually until you have the working system
you want. Document it - write down
the steps you take / copy configuration files you change.
That will also reveal logging / login slowdowns or whatever
caused by
individual devices as you add them back. Keep a list as you go.
That's the counsel of perfection: alternatively:
apt rdepends brltty gives me:
me@mymachine:~$ apt rdepends brltty
brltty
Reverse Depends:
Suggests: speechd-el (>= 3.7.2)
Depends: brltty-espeak (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
Suggests: orca
Depends: brltty-x11 (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
Depends: brltty-speechd (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
Depends: brltty-flite (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
You could try apt-get remove (or equivalent) on each of those
packages and
see if that clears it. I _know_ this is frustrating as all
get out for you
but a clear approach, written down so that you can remember
where you got
to will be very helpful.
Any attempt to remove cura or brltty, removes gnome leaving me I
assume with a text only system by the time gnome takes all its
dependency's with it. Thanks Tom.
Have you actually tried uninstalling brltty only, as a separate
action from all others?
I have a number of gnome installations, unfortunately for this
discussion all bookworm. None of them has brltty.
I have a few installations of bullseye and an older stretch
installation, but none with gnome installed. On all of them,
though, "apt-rdepends -r gnome" fails to list brltty as a gnome
dependency. And on the bookworm systems, simulated installation
of gnome ("apt install -s gnome") shows brltty as a suggested
package only and would not install it along with gnome; on the
stretch system, gnome installation makes no reference at all to
brltty.
While I have both with only the radio buttons for keyboard and
rodent plugged into usb at install time. I have only one wired
keyboard and no wired mice as I've had a lightning strike on the
pole that serves this house reach up and tap me by way of my
fingers on the keyboard. Wasn't that much of a tap, I've been
tapped a lot harder that that, hard enough to trigger a 6 month
round of shingles and the burns were months healing. And in this
case did not damage the keyboard or computer, but I did get the
message. I've had many strikes on that pole since I built a garage
on the end of the house, which caused me to install a 200 amp
service and bring my grounding specs up to NEC. Zero problems
since then (2008)
Is it possible you have apt settings that automatically pull in
suggested packages, and that is interfering with attempts to
remove brltty? I am not expert enough wrt apt and its relatives
to know whether that even makes sense, and it seems a bit far
fetched if maybe barely possible.
Maybe if you post the output from "apt-rdepends -r brltty" and
"apt purge --simulate brltty" it will be informative.
Neither of those utils are installed. Should they be?
apt should be installed. As far as I know it has been included by
default in the Debian base system as the preferred command line
package management program since buster or earlier. I have never
had to install it. You probably should if it is missing.
apt-rdepends is at least partly redundant with apt.
The command "apt-rdepends -r ", and "apt rdepends
" both show reverse dependencies of ;
the latter also shows su
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye
On 6/8/24 18:02, David Christensen wrote: On 6/8/24 12:13, gene heskett wrote: On 6/8/24 03:22, David Christensen wrote: If you installed VirtualBox on your Debian primary workstation, you could create one Debian VM for each of your engineering/ manufacturing apps. This would give each app a clean Debian VM for installation, prevent apps from fighting each other, and prevent apps from modifying your base Debian installation. It is quite rare that a snap, appimage, or venv needs anything from the system. Memory or storage is generally done at whatever venv is started as the user. That venv equ is generally what they all claim to do. I see your reticence to make use of them as a restriction. My suggestion is a variation of the "divide and conquer" troubleshooting strategy. I am not familiar with snap, appimage, or venv. Regardless of the software distribution mechanism, I expect that each app is developed and tested against a list of supported OS's and releases using VM's. If you provide each app with its own VM containing a supported OS and release, the app should install and work correctly. And, your base Debian installation should remain stable. That it is not, locking up about every 10 days switching workspaces, locking with what would be horizontal synch bar in an NTSC system, frozen at some random location on the screen. Mouse pointer is alive and moves with the mouse, but buttons are inactive, Cycle the power or press the front panel reset for 4+ seconds to reboot. I've also asked about that several times, without a reply. Memtest86, V9.4 says my 32Gigs is clean. Video is built into the mainboard, Intel of some sort I believe. Compared to the other problem I have, fixing this is not a very high priority. But I need sleep, so good night. Take care & stay well, David.> David . Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: Thinkpad T14 Gen 5, touchpad not detected
On Sun, 9 Jun 2024 06:51:00 +0200 Timothée Jaussoin wrote: > Is there something in particular I should look for ? > I would look for some of the identifiers in those dmsg lines you showed earlier. See if the touchpad was detected but rejected. That migh give you a clue as to why it was rejected. -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: Thinkpad T14 Gen 5, touchpad not detected
Is there something in particular I should look for ?
Re: kernel tuning for cloud VM
On Sun, Jun 09, 2024 at 07:41:58AM +0800, Jeff Peng wrote: > Hello > > I am using the VMs from big providers such as AWS and Azure. I'd ask AWS/Azure support for that. They do knowi their infrastructure best, we hope, and, after all, they are taking money for their service. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Snaps and Co [was: about 10th new install of bullseye]
On Sat, Jun 08, 2024 at 03:13:21PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: [...] > [...] That venv equ is generally what they all claim to do. I see your > reticence to make use of them as a restriction. I'm also firmly in that restricted camp. One of the things I appreciate distributions (and Debian in particular) is that they are a kind of "contract" (in Debian, it's even stated explicitly with the Social Contract). Things are packaged in a specific way, there are some principles the distro tries to follow, etc. So this makes things easier for you, the user. Less surprises. Snaps, AppImages, etc. just "use" [1] this social construct as an infrastructure and bring their world with them -- without even trying to mesh, let alone to give back. That's why I tend to stay away from them. Don't get me wrong: on a technical level they are cute (and have been reinvented time and again, the first I know of is Tcl's starkit, around 2002), and they have their uses, but as a distribution model I avoid them for social reasons. Cheers [1] I have a significantly harsher term for that, but I'm trying hard to stay polite. -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: kernel tuning for cloud VM
On 9/6/24 07:41, Jeff Peng wrote: Hello I am using the VMs from big providers such as AWS and Azure. most of the VMs are 2core/4gb ram/100gb disk etc. They are used for running the regular web services (java, php etc), with debian 11 installed. Every VM I just use the default system configuration. Do I need to update some kernel config for the VMs? such as socket_buffer, max_fd etc. what's the suggested options for this kind of VM? Thanks. If your applications work correctly and with acceptable response time then don't change anything. Jeremy
kernel tuning for cloud VM
Hello I am using the VMs from big providers such as AWS and Azure. most of the VMs are 2core/4gb ram/100gb disk etc. They are used for running the regular web services (java, php etc), with debian 11 installed. Every VM I just use the default system configuration. Do I need to update some kernel config for the VMs? such as socket_buffer, max_fd etc. what's the suggested options for this kind of VM? Thanks.
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye
On 6/7/24 23:41, gene heskett wrote:
On 6/7/24 20:38, Tom Dial wrote:
On 6/6/24 23:14, gene heskett wrote:
On 6/6/24 19:00, Tom Dial wrote:
On 6/5/24 19:53, gene heskett wrote:
On 6/5/24 17:25, Tom Dial wrote:
On 6/5/24 08:58, gene heskett wrote:
On 6/5/24 02:05, Tom Dial wrote:
On 6/4/24 04:26, gene heskett wrote:
On 2/19/22 06:31, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
Hi Gene,
If this was someone calling you from a TV station saying they had a TV
transmitter that was varying in power output - you'd have a mental checklist.
You'd get down there, perhaps schedule some sort of power down / reduced
power operation and then you'd check - power supplies, feeder cables, hot
spots on cables - whatever. Divide and conquer- working back to a baseline
of known working conditions and eliminating causes.
My suggestion to you of a reinstall is partly designed to get you out of this
"X happens, I did Y, now I've got Z" - to get to a known initial state.
Take out all the serial converters to UPS, lathe and so on. Wireless keyboard
doesn't present as serial in the same way that brltty does - if it did, I'd
have brltty with every install on this laptop.
Copy off your home directory as you did before - maybe using tar.gz and
preserving permissions. Start with the .iso that includes firmware - the
unofficial one.
Build back slowly - do an expert text mode install if you can. Then add your
Trinity desktop - I don't think any of us can help you there, since we don't
run trinity.
Check and you should find that brltty isn't installed at all. Then re-add
thingsgradually until you have the working system you want. Document it - write
down
the steps you take / copy configuration files you change.
That will also reveal logging / login slowdowns or whatever caused by
individual devices as you add them back. Keep a list as you go.
That's the counsel of perfection: alternatively:
apt rdepends brltty gives me:
me@mymachine:~$ apt rdepends brltty
brltty
Reverse Depends:
Suggests: speechd-el (>= 3.7.2)
Depends: brltty-espeak (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
Suggests: orca
Depends: brltty-x11 (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
Depends: brltty-speechd (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
Depends: brltty-flite (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
You could try apt-get remove (or equivalent) on each of those packages and
see if that clears it. I _know_ this is frustrating as all get out for you
but a clear approach, written down so that you can remember where you got
to will be very helpful.
Any attempt to remove cura or brltty, removes gnome leaving me I assume with a
text only system by the time gnome takes all its dependency's with it. Thanks
Tom.
Have you actually tried uninstalling brltty only, as a separate action from all
others?
I have a number of gnome installations, unfortunately for this discussion all
bookworm. None of them has brltty.
I have a few installations of bullseye and an older stretch installation, but none with gnome
installed. On all of them, though, "apt-rdepends -r gnome" fails to list brltty as a
gnome dependency. And on the bookworm systems, simulated installation of gnome ("apt install
-s gnome") shows brltty as a suggested package only and would not install it along with gnome;
on the stretch system, gnome installation makes no reference at all to brltty.
While I have both with only the radio buttons for keyboard and rodent plugged
into usb at install time. I have only one wired keyboard and no wired mice as
I've had a lightning strike on the pole that serves this house reach up and tap
me by way of my fingers on the keyboard. Wasn't that much of a tap, I've been
tapped a lot harder that that, hard enough to trigger a 6 month round of
shingles and the burns were months healing. And in this case did not damage the
keyboard or computer, but I did get the message. I've had many strikes on that
pole since I built a garage on the end of the house, which caused me to install
a 200 amp service and bring my grounding specs up to NEC. Zero problems since
then (2008)
Is it possible you have apt settings that automatically pull in suggested
packages, and that is interfering with attempts to remove brltty? I am not
expert enough wrt apt and its relatives to know whether that even makes sense,
and it seems a bit far fetched if maybe barely possible.
Maybe if you post the output from "apt-rdepends -r brltty" and "apt purge --simulate
brltty" it will be informative.
Neither of those utils are installed. Should they be?
apt should be installed. As far as I know it has been included by default in
the Debian base system as the preferred command line package management program
since buster or earlier. I have never had to install it. You probably should if
it is missing.
apt-rdepends is at least partly redundant with apt.
The command "apt-rdepends -r ", and "apt rdepends " both
show reverse dependencies of ; the latter also shows suggestions (packages that suggest
Regards,
Tom Dial
If all els
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye
On 6/8/24 12:13, gene heskett wrote: On 6/8/24 03:22, David Christensen wrote: If you installed VirtualBox on your Debian primary workstation, you could create one Debian VM for each of your engineering/ manufacturing apps. This would give each app a clean Debian VM for installation, prevent apps from fighting each other, and prevent apps from modifying your base Debian installation. It is quite rare that a snap, appimage, or venv needs anything from the system. Memory or storage is generally done at whatever venv is started as the user. That venv equ is generally what they all claim to do. I see your reticence to make use of them as a restriction. My suggestion is a variation of the "divide and conquer" troubleshooting strategy. I am not familiar with snap, appimage, or venv. Regardless of the software distribution mechanism, I expect that each app is developed and tested against a list of supported OS's and releases using VM's. If you provide each app with its own VM containing a supported OS and release, the app should install and work correctly. And, your base Debian installation should remain stable. David
Re: Thinkpad T14 Gen 5, touchpad not detected
On Sat, 8 Jun 2024 22:17:49 +0200 Timothée Jaussoin wrote: > If you need some more information I'd be pleased to share whatever is > required :) You might look at the installation logs. /var/log/installer/ -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Thinkpad T14 Gen 5, touchpad not detected
Hi, I just installed Debian Testing on my new Thinkpad T14 Gen 5 and I found out that the touchpad is not actually detected by the system. I have nothing in dmesg or xinput. However it is fully functional in other Live USB distros (Fedora and Ubuntu LTS 24.04, they have the same 6.8 Linux kernel). Here is my current hardware https://linux-hardware.org/?probe=13318ed64a Here is the dmesg in Fedora: [ 5.398935] input: ELAN0676:00 04F3:3195 Touchpad as /devices/pci:00/:00:15.0/i2c_designware.0/i2c-0/i2c-ELAN0676:00/0018:04F3:3195.0001/input/input8 [ 5.480290] input: ELAN0676:00 04F3:3195 Touchpad as /devices/pci:00/:00:15.0/i2c_designware.0/i2c-0/i2c-ELAN0676:00/0018:04F3:3195.0001/input/input11 I don't have those lines in my Debian dmesg. If you need some more information I'd be pleased to share whatever is required :) Regards, edhelas
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye
On 6/8/24 03:22, David Christensen wrote: On 6/7/24 22:41, gene heskett wrote: I OTOH, have found AppImages a good way to get uptodate, and keep uptodate, packages like OpenSCAD, FreeCAD and the miriad 3d slicers, most of which do a new AppImage in the first week of the month. So the OpenSCAD I'm running is nearly 4 years newer than the repo version, and probably 20x faster. I have found that installing software on Debian by any means other than official Debian packages is a recipe for disaster. I sometimes write Perl code that runs as root. I use VirtualBox and do my development and testing on virtual machines. Oracle provides Debian packages and integrates with sources.list(5) and apt-get(8). See "Debian-based Linux distributions": https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads If you installed VirtualBox on your Debian primary workstation, you could create one Debian VM for each of your engineering/ manufacturing apps. This would give each app a clean Debian VM for installation, prevent apps from fighting each other, and prevent apps from modifying your base Debian installation. David It is quite rare that a snap, appimage, or venv needs anything from the system. Memory or storage is generally done at whatever venv is started as the user. That venv equ is generally what they all claim to do. I see your reticence to make use of them as a restriction. . Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: Impossible to install extensions with Gnome browser plugin
On Fri 07 Jun 2024 at 22:34:58 (+0300), Jan Krapivin wrote: > пт, 7 июн. 2024 г. в 22:04, David Wright : > > On Fri 07 Jun 2024 at 20:06:27 (+0300), Jan Krapivin wrote: > > > Yes, you are right, maybe. Though Debian is probably a rare (if not the > > > only) distro that still uses Gnome 43.9, which is, as i use Debian, my > > > case. And (maybe) a problem? > > > > I searched for gnome in https://packages.debian.org/index > > and got 65 package matches for bookworm. I repeated for > > trixie and got 63 matches. Finally I tried sid and got > > 94 matches. However, I failed to find the string 43.9 > > on any of these pages. How do you come by it? (I don't > > run gnome myself.) > > > On gnome you can just run > $ *gnome-shell --version* OK. It seems the packages index is behaving in a very inconsistent manner when given gnome as the search string. I think it's worth a bug report, but I'm not sure how one directs it to the right place. Sorry not to be able to help with your problem. Cheers, David.
Re: Looking for some pre-buying verification: will an external display actually work with a Lenovo Thinkpad P16 Gen 2?
On 06/06/2024 16:57, Lists wrote: As I don't do anything remotely graphically taxing I don't need a speedy GPU. More powerful GPU may mean better quality of local (offline) AI assistant. Perhaps it is too early to say that it is must have, but it seems changes are coming.
Re: Impossible to install extensions with Gnome browser plugin
On 06/06/2024 17:41, Jan Krapivin wrote: Recently i have found out that i am unable to install new extensions with browser plugin "GNOME Shell integration". I have tried different browsers: Firefox stable If snap or flatpak sanboxing is involved then the following may be relevant: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/1661935 Summary: Snap: cannot install/manage extensions from extensions.gnome.org → Snap does not support NativeMessaging P.S. Currently I do not have a VM with Gnome.
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Debian bookworm fails to install
Hi Hans! On Sat, Jun 08, 2024 at 11:43:38AM +0200, Hans wrote: > Hello! > > For those, who are interested in my discovering with bootcd, I attached a > screenshot of the > message, the installer told and why grub can not be installed. It might > explain more. > You might want to try OFTC IRC channel #debian-live or the debian-live or debian-boot mailing lists? All the very best, as ever, Andy (amaca...@debian.org)
[SOLVED] Re: Debian bookworm fails to install
Hello! For those, who are interested in my discovering with bootcd, I attached a screenshot of the message, the installer told and why grub can not be installed. It might explain more. However, I suppose, there are not many people in the world, building a live-system + installer + bootcd on it and want to install this. I believe, the package bootcd is only known by very few people at all. But as we are always want to improve things, I feel it important, to tell about this problem. As I said before: Dunno, whom I should file a bugreport! Anyway, take a look at the picture and you know more. For me, it looks like a dependency problem Have fun! Hans
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Debian bookworm fails to install
On Sat, 8 Jun 2024 11:45:49 +0700
Max Nikulin wrote:
Hello Max,
>On 08/06/2024 00:48, Hans wrote:
>> BUT - grub-efi-amd64-bin conflicts with grub-efi-amd64-bin-signed
>No it does not. I have both installed. I think, the latter needs .mod
The pedant in me would point out that actually, no, you don't. Read that
second package name again. It doesn't exist.
Of course, I'm pretty certain that Hans typed the wrong thing and meant
to type 'grub-efi-amd64-signed'. No -bin-. From my (limited)
searching, it seems 'signed' & 'bin' are mutually exclusive in grub
package names and thus, if you have a '-signed' package, there must be a
corresponding '-bin' package installed for things to work.
Typographical mistakes are the main reason error messages, commands,
and what-not, should be copy/pasted in their entirety and not typed from
memory.
Remember:
Mistakes, like bad news, travel fast.
:-)
--
Regards _ "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
We don't need no-one to tell us what's right or wrong
The Modern World - The Jam
pgpBDcHX9UGs3.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye
On 6/7/24 22:41, gene heskett wrote: I OTOH, have found AppImages a good way to get uptodate, and keep uptodate, packages like OpenSCAD, FreeCAD and the miriad 3d slicers, most of which do a new AppImage in the first week of the month. So the OpenSCAD I'm running is nearly 4 years newer than the repo version, and probably 20x faster. I have found that installing software on Debian by any means other than official Debian packages is a recipe for disaster. I sometimes write Perl code that runs as root. I use VirtualBox and do my development and testing on virtual machines. Oracle provides Debian packages and integrates with sources.list(5) and apt-get(8). See "Debian-based Linux distributions": https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads If you installed VirtualBox on your Debian primary workstation, you could create one Debian VM for each of your engineering/ manufacturing apps. This would give each app a clean Debian VM for installation, prevent apps from fighting each other, and prevent apps from modifying your base Debian installation. David
