Re: squeeze fails to install

[Neal Hogan]

On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 6:58 PM, Neal Hogan  wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Dr. Ed Morbius  wrote:
>> on 20:34 Thu 17 Feb, Neal Hogan (nealho...@gmail.com) wrote:
>>> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 8:07 PM, Dr. Ed Morbius  
>>> wrote:
>>> > on 19:30 Thu 17 Feb, Neal Hogan (nealho...@gmail.com) wrote:
>>> >> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Dr. Ed Morbius  
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > on 18:11 Thu 17 Feb, Neal Hogan (nealho...@gmail.com) wrote:
>>> >> >> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Dr. Ed Morbius 
>>> >> >>  wrote:
>>> >> >> > on 21:01 Wed 16 Feb, Neal Hogan (nealho...@gmail.com) wrote:
>>
>>> >> >> >> Every installation medium that I've tried fails. Those trials 
>>> >> >> >> include
>>> >> >> >> net-install-iso, mini-iso, full-diskOne-iso. . .with both linux and
>>> >> >> >> bsd kernels.
>>
>>> >> >> > Are you using the graphical or console installer?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> There was no option. It appeared graphical.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > You should have the option of selecting at boot time.
>>> >>
>>> >> I agree
>>> >
>>> > Agree or not, the option should be presented.  You might, say, rather
>>> > than being all agreeable and stuff, actually verify this on your
>>> > installation media by, say, booting it and checking.
>>> >
>>>
>>> I did . . that is why I said that there was no option and agree that
>>> there should be one. I've indicated my install media in response to
>>> others and above.
>>
>> Booting the Debian squeeze netinst ISO under qemu from
>> http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.0/i386/iso-cd/debian-6.0.0-i386-netinst.iso
>>
>> ... the first boot screen reads:
>>
>>   debian
>>   The Universal Operating System
>>
>>   Installer boot menu
>>
>>   Install
>>   Graphical install
>>   Advanced options
>>   Help
>>
>
> I confirm this. The link's iso that you provide offer those options .
> . . my options were
>
> default install
> automated install
> expert install
>
> I'm in the process of getting the iso's that gave me those options
>

http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.0/kfreebsd-i386/iso-cd/debian-6.0.0-kfreebsd-i386-CD-1.iso
http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/dists/squeeze/main/installer-kfreebsd-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso

Those for sure . . . Unfortunately (for me), I can't find the
non-(debian gnu/bsd) iso's that failed (given the amount of effor that
I'm now willing to put forth). At this point, you have my word, which
is not good enough, I know.

I want to go eat my wife's birthday cake and watch a movie ;-)

>> The default selection is "Install" (the text installer).
>>
>>
>> On booting the installer and proceeding to the root password prompt,
>> switching to virtual console #2 (-), I find fdisk in /usr/sbin.
>>
>>
>> As my good friend HAL notes:
>>
>>    "Well, I don't think there is any question about it. It can only be
>>    attributable to human error. This sort of thing has cropped up
>>    before and it has always been due to human error."
>>
>>    http://www.palantir.net/2001/tma1/wav/error.wav
>>
>>
>> Either you're not using the Debian Squeeze installer, or you're not
>> using it correctly.
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Ed Morbius, Chief Scientist /            |
>>  Robot Wrangler / Staff Psychologist        | When you seek unlimited power
>> Krell Power Systems Unlimited                |                  Go to Krell!
>>
>>
>> --
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>> Archive: 
>> http://lists.debian.org/20110218193314.gn3...@altaira.krellpowersys.exo
>>
>>
>


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Re: squeeze fails to install

[Neal Hogan]

On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Dr. Ed Morbius  wrote:
> on 20:34 Thu 17 Feb, Neal Hogan (nealho...@gmail.com) wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 8:07 PM, Dr. Ed Morbius  
>> wrote:
>> > on 19:30 Thu 17 Feb, Neal Hogan (nealho...@gmail.com) wrote:
>> >> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Dr. Ed Morbius  
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > on 18:11 Thu 17 Feb, Neal Hogan (nealho...@gmail.com) wrote:
>> >> >> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Dr. Ed Morbius 
>> >> >>  wrote:
>> >> >> > on 21:01 Wed 16 Feb, Neal Hogan (nealho...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
>> >> >> >> Every installation medium that I've tried fails. Those trials 
>> >> >> >> include
>> >> >> >> net-install-iso, mini-iso, full-diskOne-iso. . .with both linux and
>> >> >> >> bsd kernels.
>
>> >> >> > Are you using the graphical or console installer?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> There was no option. It appeared graphical.
>> >> >
>> >> > You should have the option of selecting at boot time.
>> >>
>> >> I agree
>> >
>> > Agree or not, the option should be presented.  You might, say, rather
>> > than being all agreeable and stuff, actually verify this on your
>> > installation media by, say, booting it and checking.
>> >
>>
>> I did . . that is why I said that there was no option and agree that
>> there should be one. I've indicated my install media in response to
>> others and above.
>
> Booting the Debian squeeze netinst ISO under qemu from
> http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.0/i386/iso-cd/debian-6.0.0-i386-netinst.iso
>
> ... the first boot screen reads:
>
>   debian
>   The Universal Operating System
>
>   Installer boot menu
>
>   Install
>   Graphical install
>   Advanced options
>   Help
>

I confirm this. The link's iso that you provide offer those options .
. . my options were

default install
automated install
expert install

I'm in the process of getting the iso's that gave me those options

> The default selection is "Install" (the text installer).
>
>
> On booting the installer and proceeding to the root password prompt,
> switching to virtual console #2 (-), I find fdisk in /usr/sbin.
>
>
> As my good friend HAL notes:
>
>    "Well, I don't think there is any question about it. It can only be
>    attributable to human error. This sort of thing has cropped up
>    before and it has always been due to human error."
>
>    http://www.palantir.net/2001/tma1/wav/error.wav
>
>
> Either you're not using the Debian Squeeze installer, or you're not
> using it correctly.
>
> --
> Dr. Ed Morbius, Chief Scientist /            |
>  Robot Wrangler / Staff Psychologist        | When you seek unlimited power
> Krell Power Systems Unlimited                |                  Go to Krell!
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
> Archive: 
> http://lists.debian.org/20110218193314.gn3...@altaira.krellpowersys.exo
>
>


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Re: squeeze fails to install

[Neal Hogan]

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 8:07 PM, Dr. Ed Morbius  wrote:
> on 19:30 Thu 17 Feb, Neal Hogan (nealho...@gmail.com) wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Dr. Ed Morbius  
>> wrote:
>> > I'll generally constrain my followup to the earlier thread rather than
>> > propogating two separate ones.
>> >
>> > on 18:11 Thu 17 Feb, Neal Hogan (nealho...@gmail.com) wrote:
>> >> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Dr. Ed Morbius  
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > on 21:01 Wed 16 Feb, Neal Hogan (nealho...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
>> >> >> Every installation medium that I've tried fails. Those trials include
>> >> >> net-install-iso, mini-iso, full-diskOne-iso. . .with both linux and
>> >> >> bsd kernels.
>
>> >> >> Background: I've had Lenny on this particualr machine
>> >> >> installing/running just fine. I was able to upgrade from Lenny to
>> >> >> Squeeze with no problem. The fresh install is the problem. My machine
>> >> >> is an early 2000's HP pavilion (ze4400). Why doesn't the install
>> >> >> script partition my hard drive?
>> >> >
>> >> > Is this the only part of the installation which fails to occur as
>> >> > expected?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> expected?
>> >
>> > As opposed to unexpected.
>>
>> Yes, yes . . . clearly unexpected. The error forces me back to the
>> partition stage. I suppose I can choose the next step of the
>> installation, but I didn't feel it was appropriate given the lake of
>> partitions.
>
> It's not that you don't have partitions, but that you haven't changed
> the state of the partition(s) which previously existed.
>
> Sometimes staggering on is the better part of valour.
>

This is not a quest for the holy grail ;-)

>
>> >> > Is a filesystem created at all?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Dunno . . . it stops the install. As I've said elsewhere, the
>> >> partition failure takes place after the root partition creation.
>> >
>> > Generally:  you should be able to verify the FS creation either from
>> > shell on the installation system, or by booting another system (e.g.:
>> > Live CD, Knoppix, etc.).
>>
>> ok . . . felt it was not necessary given that I wanted to create a new table.
>
> I'm actually a fan of the debootstrap installation method, usually
> performed from a Knoppix disk or other bootable media.  This gives me a
> Debian installation with the support of a full-fledged installation
> behind it during the installation process.
>
> For multiple installs, of course, you'd want to use FAI or similar.
>
>
>> > There's a difference between repartitioning and creating new
>> > filesystems.
>> >
>>
>> then why does the install warn about wiping out all of the stuff that
>> was on the disk?
>
> Abundance of caution and all that.
>

I heeded the caution and said wipe the drive.

> People have been known to take dimly to having their data disappeared.
>
> And both repartitioning and reformatting will generally disappear data
> for most purposes.
>
>
>
>> >> > Have you tried shelling out (alt-F2 generally) to partition and create
>> >> > filesystems yourself?
>> >>
>> >> yes, fdisk/cfdisk is not an available comand.
>> >
>> > Hrm  I thought it was.  May be some other utility.  Check the usual
>> > places (/bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, /usr/sbin, busybox) for available
>> > utilities.
>> >
>>
>> I checked and couldn't find them. I was surprised.
>
> I'd have to poke around in the installer (and you'd have to indicate
> which installer you're using) and/or install package to verify this
> myself.  Color me surprised though.
>

whichever installer is in the (x86) net-install, disk-one, mini.iso .
. . both linux and BSD kernels . . . from the default debian.org links
(i.e., the ones that you get from following the links on debian.org)

>
>> >> > Are you using the graphical or console installer?
>> >>
>> >> There was no option. It appeared graphical.
>> >
>> > You should have the option of selecting at boot time.
>>
>> I agree
>
> Agree or not, the option should be presented.  You might, say, rather
> than being all agreeable and stuff, actually verify this on your
> installation media by, say, booting it and checking.
>

I did . . that is why I said that there was no option and agree that
there should be one. I've indicated my install media in response to
others and above.

Dr Ed, I sincerely appreciate your effort. Honestly, I feel that I've
given enough info, given that i had a working system a week ago with
Lenny and squeeze (via upgrade) and the fact that I've been able to
install other OS's (oBSD, fedora, gentoo) without a problem.

I do not want to bother the community with further issue(s) (unless
someone really wants to persue this). I thank all those who've taken
the time to read my posts and I apologize if I've offended anyone.


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Re: squeeze fails to install

[Neal Hogan]

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Dr. Ed Morbius  wrote:
> I'll generally constrain my followup to the earlier thread rather than
> propogating two separate ones.
>
> on 18:11 Thu 17 Feb, Neal Hogan (nealho...@gmail.com) wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Dr. Ed Morbius  
>> wrote:
>> > on 21:01 Wed 16 Feb, Neal Hogan (nealho...@gmail.com) wrote:
>> >> I have another thread started that is not getting much traffic given
>> >> the significance of the situation: installation.
>> >>
>> >> Every installation medium that I've tried fails. Those trials include
>> >> net-install-iso, mini-iso, full-diskOne-iso. . .with both linux and
>> >> bsd kernels.
>> >>
>> >> What information do those that know anything about the install of the
>> >> latest "stable" release need to know to fix this issue? There have
>> >> been a few (if not several) other threads dealing with installation of
>> >> squeeze. Was this tested?
>> >
>> > How about:
>> >
>> >  - System onto which you're installing.
>>
>> I'm not sure what "onto" means. I'm attempting the x86 install.
>
> A description of the make/model, general hardware profile, etc., of the
> system.  You give a rough outline below.
>
>> >  - Specific error message(s) encountered during installation.
>> >
>>
>> You saw this in my other thread. it fails oto partition.
>>
>> >> Background: I've had Lenny on this particualr machine
>> >> installing/running just fine. I was able to upgrade from Lenny to
>> >> Squeeze with no problem. The fresh install is the problem. My machine
>> >> is an early 2000's HP pavilion (ze4400). Why doesn't the install
>> >> script partition my hard drive?
>> >
>> > Is this the only part of the installation which fails to occur as
>> > expected?
>> >
>>
>> expected?
>
> As opposed to unexpected.

Yes, yes . . . clearly unexpected. The error forces me back to the
partition stage. I suppose I can choose the next step of the
installation, but I didn't feel it was appropriate given the lake of
partitions.

>
> In some cases it's possible to continue through an error, in others not.
> You're giving us a verbal description of the process / procedure, not a
> session transcript (difficult w/ the installer, granted) or logs of
> errors/output.
>
> The more fully and in detail you can describe your problem, the more
> appropriate assistance can be provided.
>

you're right.

>> > Is a filesystem created at all?
>> >
>>
>> Dunno . . . it stops the install. As I've said elsewhere, the
>> partition failure takes place after the root partition creation.
>
> Generally:  you should be able to verify the FS creation either from
> shell on the installation system, or by booting another system (e.g.:
> Live CD, Knoppix, etc.).
>

ok . . . felt it was not necessary given that I wanted to create a new table.

>> > Is the hard drive already partitioned?
>> >
>>
>> ya (with Lenny), but I don't care about those partitoins. I want to
>> wipe them out.
>
> There's a difference between repartitioning and creating new
> filesystems.
>

then why does the install warn about wiping out all of the stuff that
was on the disk?


>> > How large is the hard drive?
>> >
>>
>> 100G
>
> That should be sufficiently large for normal automatic partitioning to
> occur.   As opposed to, say, a 1-10GB drive (1GB is barely sufficient
> for minimal Debian these days, 10GB barely sufficient for a lean
> install).
>
>> > Does the rest of the installation complete or not?
>> >
>>
>> Dunno. . . I didn;t feel it reasonable to contintue with the instal if
>> my disk isn't partitioned.
>
> OK
>
>> > Have you tried shelling out (alt-F2 generally) to partition and create
>> > filesystems yourself?
>>
>> yes, fdisk/cfdisk is not an available comand.
>
> Hrm  I thought it was.  May be some other utility.  Check the usual
> places (/bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, /usr/sbin, busybox) for available
> utilities.
>

I checked and couldn't find them. I was surprised.

>> >
>> > Are you using the graphical or console installer?
>> >
>>
>> There was no option. It appeared graphical.
>
> You should have the option of selecting at boot time.
>

I agree

>    http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s01.html.en
>
> You *HAVE* read the Installation Guide, right?
>
 yes

Thanks for your time.


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Re: squeeze fails to install

[Neal Hogan]

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Dr. Ed Morbius  wrote:
> on 21:01 Wed 16 Feb, Neal Hogan (nealho...@gmail.com) wrote:
>> I have another thread started that is not getting much traffic given
>> the significance of the situation: installation.
>>
>> Every installation medium that I've tried fails. Those trials include
>> net-install-iso, mini-iso, full-diskOne-iso. . .with both linux and
>> bsd kernels.
>>
>> What information do those that know anything about the install of the
>> latest "stable" release need to know to fix this issue? There have
>> been a few (if not several) other threads dealing with installation of
>> squeeze. Was this tested?
>
> How about:
>
>  - System onto which you're installing.

I'm not sure what "onto" means. I'm attempting the x86 install.

>  - Specific error message(s) encountered during installation.
>

You saw this in my other thread. it fails oto partition.

>> Background: I've had Lenny on this particualr machine
>> installing/running just fine. I was able to upgrade from Lenny to
>> Squeeze with no problem. The fresh install is the problem. My machine
>> is an early 2000's HP pavilion (ze4400). Why doesn't the install
>> script partition my hard drive?
>
> Is this the only part of the installation which fails to occur as
> expected?
>

expected?

> Is a filesystem created at all?
>

Dunno . . . it stops the install. As I've said elsewhere, the
partition failure takes place after the root partition creation.

> Is the hard drive already partitioned?
>

ya (with Lenny), but I don't care about those partitoins. I want to
wipe them out.

> How large is the hard drive?
>

100G

> Does the rest of the installation complete or not?
>

Dunno. . . I didn;t feel it reasonable to contintue with the instal if
my disk isn't partitioned.

> Have you tried shelling out (alt-F2 generally) to partition and create
> filesystems yourself?

yes, fdisk/cfdisk is not an available comand.

>
> Are you using the graphical or console installer?
>

There was no option. It appeared graphical.

> Installation messages are logged as well:
>
>    http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch06s01.html.en
>
>> As you can see, I'm rather frustrated. I've enjoyed the debian
>> experience up to this point. I don't mind working to get things done,
>> but my issue seems to be a rather big deal (i.e., squeeze can't
>> install on a machine that has worked).
>>
>> I understand that the majorty of folks on this list are not devs, but
>> the devs who do subscribe *should* take notice. No?
>
> As others have noted:  file a bug against debian-installer.  That's how
> devs hear about things.  This list is for user-to-user (and occasionally
> dev-to-user) support.
>
> --
> Dr. Ed Morbius, Chief Scientist /            |
>  Robot Wrangler / Staff Psychologist        | When you seek unlimited power
> Krell Power Systems Unlimited                |                  Go to Krell!
>
>
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>
>


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Re: squeeze fails to install

[Neal Hogan]

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 1:06 PM, David Christensen
 wrote:
> On 02/15/2011 04:43 PM, Neal Hogan wrote:
>> I've tried the mini.iso and full net-iso for both the
>> gnu/bsd and gnu/linux system (i386) and no matter what I try it fails
>> to partition my drive.
>>    eg.
>>       "[!!] Partition disks
>>        Failed to create a file system
>>        The ufs file system creation in partition #6 of ATA1 (ad0) failed"
>
> On 02/16/2011 07:01 PM, Neal Hogan wrote:
>> Every installation medium that I've tried fails. Those trials include
>> net-install-iso, mini-iso, full-diskOne-iso. . .with both linux and
>> bsd kernels.
>
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:22 PM, David Christensen
>>>
>>> It sounds like you have a hardware problem.  The following is an outline
>>> of
>>> how I do a thorough system hardware diagnostic.
>
> On 02/17/2011 04:39 AM, Neal Hogan wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the (sarcastic?) reply.
>> The reason I don't think that it's a hardware problem is because (1)
>> that machine had Lenny running on it for over a year, (2) the upgrade
>> from Lenny to Squeeze resulted in the machine running Squeeze with no
>> problem, and (3) I can partition the HDD using other methods (other
>> OS's, gparted, etc).
>
> Please keep the thread on list (use "Reply to All").
>
>

Ooops! I meant to.

> It's your choice whether or not to verify the hardware.  Logically, if the
> hardware is good, then that leaves the software or the operator.
>

I agree.

>
> Going down the software path:
>
> 1.  Which *specific* Debian ISO(s) did you download (please respond per #5,
> below)?
>

The various ones (netsinstall, mini, full-disk-one) from the
debian.org site (debian.org/distrib/netinst,
debian.org/CD/http-ftp/#stable).

> 2.  Did you verify the checksum(s)?
>

no

> 3.  Do your disk(s) have a menu item for checking the integrity of the
> disk(s)?  Did you run it?

no, but the disks are fine. I've installed other OS's in the meantime.

>
> 4.  Have you tried using the disk(s) to install Debian on other computers?
>

no

> 5.  Last week, I built the machine I'm typing on from an ISO obtained with
> jigdo and the following.  It is known good.  If the above items don't help,
> then please try it:
>
>    http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.0/i386/jigdo-dvd/
>
>    MD5SUMS
>
>    MD5SUMS.sign
>
>    debian-6.0.0-i386-DVD-1.jigdo
>
>    debian-6.0.0-i386-DVD-1.template
>
>
> David
>
>
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squeeze fails to install

[Neal Hogan]

I have another thread started that is not getting much traffic given
the significance of the situation: installation.

Every installation medium that I've tried fails. Those trials include
net-install-iso, mini-iso, full-diskOne-iso. . .with both linux and
bsd kernels.

What information do those that know anything about the install of the
latest "stable" release need to know to fix this issue? There have
been a few (if not several) other threads dealing with installation of
squeeze. Was this tested?

Background: I've had Lenny on this particualr machine
installing/running just fine. I was able to upgrade from Lenny to
Squeeze with no problem. The fresh install is the problem. My machine
is an early 2000's HP pavilion (ze4400). Why doesn't the install
script partition my hard drive?

As you can see, I'm rather frustrated. I've enjoyed the debian
experience up to this point. I don't mind working to get things done,
but my issue seems to be a rather big deal (i.e., squeeze can't
install on a machine that has worked).

I understand that the majorty of folks on this list are not devs, but
the devs who do subscribe *should* take notice. No?

Thanks,
-Neal


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Re: fresh squeeze install fails to partition

[Neal Hogan]

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 7:32 AM, Neal Hogan  wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:14 PM,   wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 20:46:55 -0800
>> David Christensen  wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/15/2011 04:43 PM, Neal Hogan wrote:
>>> > My goal was to install the debian GNU/bsd system, but things seemed
>>> > to be messed up. I've tried the mini.iso and full net-iso for both
>>> > the gnu/bsd and gnu/linux system (i386) and no matter what I try it
>>> > fails to partition my drive.
>>> >    eg.
>>> >       "[!!] Partition disks
>>> >        Failed to create a file system
>>> >        The ufs file system creation in partition #6 of ATA1 (ad0)
>>> > failed" No matter what option I try, the default, all-in-one
>>> > partition, the seperation /home partition, etc., it doesn't work.
>>
>> is ufs standard now on a fresh install ?  have you tried using ext3 ?
>>
>
> I don't know if ufs is the standard, but I didn't choose it.
>

It appears that ufs is the standard. It's definitely the default. I
tried to change the filesystem to ext3, but it wasn't an available
option (ext2, fat*, and swap were the only other options). When I
selected the ext2 system it said that it wasn't a bootable filesystem
and that I needed to change it to ufs.

>> it's very odd that the all-in-one would fail since that basically kills
>> everything on the disk and installs a single partition.  that would
>> lead me to believe that the access to your disk is busted, which also
>> seems unlikely.
>>
>
> The failure appears to occur after the root partition. That is, if
> doing the all-in-one thing it fails to create the swap partition . . .
> when doing the seperate-/home thing it fails to creat the /home
> partition.
>
>> when performing the installation you can open a terminal (Alt-F2) and
>> run commands from the command line.  if you know how to use fdisk, it
>> may be worth it to try and create the partitions yourself, to see if you
>> can get some more error messages.
>>
>> I'm not sure when the current disk partition tool is for an install,
>> someone please correct me if it's not simply fdisk (cfdisk, maybe ?).
>>
>>

partman?

>
> I'll try. FYI - Access to my disk should be fine since I was able to
> install another OS without issue (the reason I don't stick with that
> OS is due to other issues ;-).
>

fdisk/cfdisk is not a command available at the command line (i.e., #
fdisk  "-/bin/sh: fdisk: not found"

> Thanks,
> -Neal
>


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Re: fresh squeeze install fails to partition

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:14 PM,   wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 20:46:55 -0800
> David Christensen  wrote:
>
>> On 02/15/2011 04:43 PM, Neal Hogan wrote:
>> > My goal was to install the debian GNU/bsd system, but things seemed
>> > to be messed up. I've tried the mini.iso and full net-iso for both
>> > the gnu/bsd and gnu/linux system (i386) and no matter what I try it
>> > fails to partition my drive.
>> >    eg.
>> >       "[!!] Partition disks
>> >        Failed to create a file system
>> >        The ufs file system creation in partition #6 of ATA1 (ad0)
>> > failed" No matter what option I try, the default, all-in-one
>> > partition, the seperation /home partition, etc., it doesn't work.
>
> is ufs standard now on a fresh install ?  have you tried using ext3 ?
>

I don't know if ufs is the standard, but I didn't choose it.

> it's very odd that the all-in-one would fail since that basically kills
> everything on the disk and installs a single partition.  that would
> lead me to believe that the access to your disk is busted, which also
> seems unlikely.
>

The failure appears to occur after the root partition. That is, if
doing the all-in-one thing it fails to create the swap partition . . .
when doing the seperate-/home thing it fails to creat the /home
partition.

> when performing the installation you can open a terminal (Alt-F2) and
> run commands from the command line.  if you know how to use fdisk, it
> may be worth it to try and create the partitions yourself, to see if you
> can get some more error messages.
>
> I'm not sure when the current disk partition tool is for an install,
> someone please correct me if it's not simply fdisk (cfdisk, maybe ?).
>
>

I'll try. FYI - Access to my disk should be fine since I was able to
install another OS without issue (the reason I don't stick with that
OS is due to other issues ;-).

Thanks,
-Neal


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Re: fresh squeeze install fails to partition

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Neal Hogan  wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> My goal was to install the debian GNU/bsd system, but things seemed to
> be messed up. I've tried the mini.iso and full net-iso for both the
> gnu/bsd and gnu/linux system (i386) and no matter what I try it fails
> to partition my drive.
>
>  eg.
>     "[!!] Partition disks
>      Failed to create a file system
>      The ufs file system creation in partition #6 of ATA1 (ad0) failed"
>
> No matter what option I try, the default, all-in-one partition, the
> seperation /home partition, etc., it doesn't work.
>
> Just a week or so ago, I had 5.0 running just fine. No hardware has
> changed . . . software?
>

P.S. -- I was successful in upgrading from Lenny to Squeeze before the
fresh install of Squeeze attempt.

> Thanks for your time,
> -Neal
>


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fresh squeeze install fails to partition

[Neal Hogan]

Hi list,

My goal was to install the debian GNU/bsd system, but things seemed to
be messed up. I've tried the mini.iso and full net-iso for both the
gnu/bsd and gnu/linux system (i386) and no matter what I try it fails
to partition my drive.

  eg.
 "[!!] Partition disks
  Failed to create a file system
  The ufs file system creation in partition #6 of ATA1 (ad0) failed"

No matter what option I try, the default, all-in-one partition, the
seperation /home partition, etc., it doesn't work.

Just a week or so ago, I had 5.0 running just fine. No hardware has
changed . . . software?

Thanks for your time,
-Neal


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Re: No icons, help.

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Doug  wrote:
> I'm brand new to Debian, but not to Linux, altho I still consider
> myself pretty much a newbie after probably 12 years or so(!)
> (Slackware, RedHat, SuSE, PCLinuxOs, and a quick look at Ubuntu, Kubuntu,
> and Puppy)  For general use recently I've been using PcLOs, (KDE 4.4.5) and
> of course, Windows.
>

How did you interact with those (linux) distros?  It's difficult to
see that you found your experience with those distros that much easier
than your Debian experience.

> I ordered and received the Debian LXDE version, and am presently
> running the LIVE version, just to get a feel for things.  I will
> have to install the program because I'm taking a Linux/Unix course
> at the local community college, and the instructor wants to use
> Debian.  Most of the time the class will apparently be using a CLI.
> However, in the meantime, on my own time, I would like to be able to
> use the program for other things.
>
> How does one put icons on the desktop???

What desktop? Have you been using, in your extensive Linux experience,
Gnome, KDE, XFCE, blackbox, fluxbox, . . ., what?

>And having downloaded
> Firefox (I think) how do I get it someplace I can use it?  I
> will also download Thunderbird, when I figure all this out. But
> first, the desktop is just wasted space if I can't put program
> icons on it.

I disagree . . . you can put a "cool" pic on it ;-)

>
> BTW, I ordered the CD because I could not make head nor tail of
> the Jigdo system. Somebody up at Debian HQ should look into that.
> If all the other distros I've tried can send zipped .iso files,
> I see no reason that Debian can't do likewise.
>

Have you read what "debian HQ" has put together at www.debian.org?
Look at Debian's install instructions.


> Hope I haven't ruffled any feathers, and thanx for your patience
> with an old-time newbie.  --doug

In the end, it's difficult to understand your situation and I suggest
that you look at the documentation on Debian's homepage.


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Re: how to locate files on my computer

[Neal Hogan]

On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:00 PM, tom  wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-09-02 at 19:44 -0500, Neal Hogan wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 7:39 PM, tom  wrote:
>> > I thought using the command: $ locate   would work, but
>> > nothing happens, even if I su to root.  Any help appreciated.
>> > Tom
>> >
>>
>> man find(1)
>
> That command doesn't appear to search my file system and report all
> files containing the word.  Maybe there's a way to put the utility
> locate on lenny?
> Tom
>
>

man find! Did you look at the manpage . . . the man page for 'find'?

Patience can only be afforded those who take the time to look things up!

# find / -name 'named files'

or

# find /foo -name 'named files*'

etc.


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Re: Symlinks (was Re: Triple boot with MS XP)

[Neal Hogan]

On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:50 PM, Ron Johnson  wrote:
> On 06/16/2010 10:03 PM, ABSDoug wrote:
>>
>> --- On Wed, 6/16/10, Ron Johnson  wrote:
>>
>>  > Symlink the NTFS iTunes directory to some place under
>>  > $HOME.
>>
>> I've never heard this term "Symlink". I'm off to Google, but if you care
>> to elaborate, please feel free!
>
> (That's the way for a newbie to engender cooperation.)
>
>

+1

I suppose I should apologise to the Debian community for my use of the
F-bomb-dropped-"reprimand". . . I do.

(However, I wonder the extent to which debian-users@ members  are
willing to be insulted by folks who blatently abuse them.)


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Re: Web browsers, Adobe Flash & Debian

[Neal Hogan]

yeah!

On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 10:04 PM, ABSDoug  wrote:
> --- On Thu, 6/10/10, Neal Hogan  wrote:
>
>> Fuck off!
>
> Now that I know Mr. Hogan here doesn't have anything intelligent to add, off 
> to the kill file with him!
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: Web browsers, Adobe Flash & Debian

[Neal Hogan]

BTW -- I hope that your referee understands my English "curse-words,"
so that I can get ejected from this silly little game ;-)

On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Neal Hogan  wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 4:39 PM, ABSDoug  wrote:
>> --- On Thu, 6/10/10, Mihamina Rakotomandimby  wrote:
>>
>>> He will ask you the exact URL...
>>
>> If *I* was the person posting advice, *I* would have posted the URL. But 
>> then I try to make things EASY when helping... as opposed to being difficult 
>> on a list designed to help people.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Fuck off!
>


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Re: Web browsers, Adobe Flash & Debian

[Neal Hogan]

On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 4:39 PM, ABSDoug  wrote:
> --- On Thu, 6/10/10, Mihamina Rakotomandimby  wrote:
>
>> He will ask you the exact URL...
>
> If *I* was the person posting advice, *I* would have posted the URL. But then 
> I try to make things EASY when helping... as opposed to being difficult on a 
> list designed to help people.
>
>
>

Fuck off!


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Re: Acer Aspire One wireless issue

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 7:57 PM, ABSDoug  wrote:
> --- On Tue, 6/8/10, Neal Hogan  wrote:
>
> <<< When adding packages, your system needs to know where to look. To find 
> out, it looks at the list in /etc/apt/sources.list. Take a look at that. 
> You'll probably see that the first item(s) in the list refer to the install 
> disk.  So, until you get internet connection, you're gonna need to use some 
> other means . . . like the install disk to get packages. >>>
>
> Sorry if I wasn't clear... I WAS on the Internet... so confusing. I hooked up 
> to the router in my roommate's room, but it was still asking for the disk...? 
> I'm pretty sure what I was looking for wouldn't be on the disk anyway.
>
> <<< Once you get connected, DO SOME HOMEWORK and figure out how to edit that 
> file so that the system does not want to look at the install disk all of the 
> time, but rather "looks out" at the web.>>>
>
> I was hoping it was a quick fix someone could suggest, but at least now I 
> know what file I'm trying to edit, thanks!
>
>

'Tis a start . . .

http://wiki.debian.org/Apt


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Re: Acer Aspire One wireless issue

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 6:15 PM, ABSDoug  wrote:
> --- On Tue, 6/8/10, Hugo Vanwoerkom  wrote:
>
>> Now wireless does’nt seem to work out of the box so you
>> need to:
>>
>> Make sure that non-free and contrib are selected in the
>> package list.
>>
>> Open a terminal and type the following:
>>
>> #su
>> #(Your root password)
>>
>> # apt-get update
>> # apt-get install build-essential module-assistant
>> madwifi-source
>
> Finally made it over to the router, in my roommate's room. After trying above 
> & trying Synaptic... oy... system asks for the install disk... out comes the 
> external drive, in goes the disk... but the system keeps asking for the disk 
> even though I've got the disk in the external drive. This being a netbook, 
> there is no internal drive.
>
>
>

When adding packages, your system needs to know where to look. To find
out, it looks at the list in /etc/apt/sources.list. Take a look at
that. You'll probably see that the first item(s) in the list refer to
the install disk.  So, until you get internet connection, you're gonna
need to use some other means . . . like the install disk to get
packages.

Once you get connected, DO SOME HOMEWORK and figure out how to edit
that file so that the system does not want to look at the install disk
all of the time, but rather "looks out" at the web.


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Re: GUI fails to start

[Neal Hogan]

On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Nathan Martin  wrote:
> Help!
>
> After the setup process for Lenny, the system reboots to start the new
> installation but the GUI does not come up. The screen remains blank. I
> checked the option for “Desktop” in the set up process. Everything seems to
> go smoothly until the GUI should come up. I am starting from a “net-install”
> CD I downloaded and burned. Am I doing something wrong or is it my disk
> copy?
>

You're not offerring too many details to work with.

Have you tried another disk? What are you expecting (i.e., what
wm/de)? Is your video card supported? Has it worked before with
debian? Can you get back to the console and check you xorg log for
error messages? Did you follow the installation instructions found on
the debian website? Have you looked at any documentation? Basically,
what have you done?

-Neal


>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Nathan B Martin
>
>


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Re: daemonizing a command

[Neal Hogan]

On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Israel Garcia  wrote:
> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:59 PM, Neal Hogan  wrote:
>> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:52 PM, Israel Garcia  wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I need to daemonize this command on a debian lenny?
>>>
>>> ruby apd.rb
>>>
>>> It's a simple app for my network.
>>>
>>> I was thinking to use nohup ruby app.rb & at rc.local, but I want to
>>> know if there's other ways to do it.
>>
>> It's been awhile since I wrote such a script, so the details aren't at
>> the tip of my tongue, but the following helped me when I did. Perhaps
>> it will help.
>>
>> http://www.debian-administration.org/article/Making_scripts_run_at_boot_time_with_Debian
> Hi Neal,
>
> I did it this way.. look my init script :-)
>
> #! /bin/sh
> # /etc/init.d/apd
> #
>
> # Some things that run always
>
> # Carry out specific functions when asked to by the system
> case "$1" in
>  start)
>    echo "Starting postfix policy daemon"
>    sleep 1
>    ruby /usr/local/bin/apd.rb & > /dev/null
>    echo ""   > /dev/null
>    ;;
>  stop)
>    echo "Stopping postfix policy daemon"
>    sleep 1
>     kill -9 `ps afx|grep "ruby /usr/local/bin/apd.rb"|grep -v
> grep|awk '{print $1}'` >/dev/null
>    ;;
> restart)
>        $0 stop
>        sleep 1
>        $0 start
>        ;;
>  *)
>    echo "Usage: /etc/init.d/apd {start|stop|restart}"
>    exit 1
>    ;;
> esac
>
> exit 0


It looks fine to me. If it does what you want, great!

Thanks for showing me.

-Neal


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Re: daemonizing a command

[Neal Hogan]

On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:52 PM, Israel Garcia  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I need to daemonize this command on a debian lenny?
>
> ruby apd.rb
>
> It's a simple app for my network.
>
> I was thinking to use nohup ruby app.rb & at rc.local, but I want to
> know if there's other ways to do it.

It's been awhile since I wrote such a script, so the details aren't at
the tip of my tongue, but the following helped me when I did. Perhaps
it will help.

http://www.debian-administration.org/article/Making_scripts_run_at_boot_time_with_Debian

>
> --
> Regards;
> Israel Garcia
>
>
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>


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Re: [OT] teenage slang. was: Re: [OT] Help for non-Debian distributions (was How to read log files)

[Neal Hogan]

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Lisi  wrote:
> On Monday 29 March 2010 18:44:29 Stephen Powell wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:51:08 -0400 (EDT), Lisi wrote:
>> > As for KKL, I needed a translation.
>>
>> This is *really* off-topic, but perhaps this is it:
>>
>> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=KKL
>>
>> It showed up in an internet search, but I can't access the site right now
>> because my employer has that site blocked.  (In general, that's not a good
>> sign.  But it's not necessarily bad.  They block things like Xanga,
>> Myspace, facebook, and other social networking sites too.)  You've got me
>> curious, though.  I have a teenager myself; so I'll check the definition
>> from home tonight.
>
> I asked my teenager for the definition at the time.  She says that KKL= O.K.
> KooL, which again being translated means: I agree and I approve, or O.K, I
> think that that is a good idea.  She says they all in fact just say K for OK
> anyway!!  I can certainly concur that the beginnings and ends of words seem
> to be entirely voluntary - and it is not entirely because I am going deaf!
>
> But, as you say, this is way OT.

Certainly, more OT than any ubuntu/debian question ;-)


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Re: (OT) gnash vs. flash

[Neal Hogan]

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 9:43 PM, John Hasler  wrote:
> Neal writes:
>> to use Adobe software without paying for it is stealing . . . money .
>> .. . no?
>
> No.  It may be copyright infringement if you do so without Adobe's
> permission, but copyright infringement is not theft according to the US
> Federal Courts.

Ah . . . ok

>
>> Is it the case that the flash support offered by Debian is "free"
>> (i.e., without charge) in the Stallman sense?
>
> The "Stallman" sense of "free" is not "without charge".  Think free
> speech, not free beer.
>

Right . . . I forgot. That's an often made mistake and I apologize for
making it too.

>> Again, in the end, if you want flash support (no matter what), cool.
>> But can a "purist" accept such support and be a true linux user?
>
> What is a "true Linux user"?
> --

Ya . . . that was a silly phrase 8-0


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Re: (OT) gnash vs. flash (was Re: Why does installing gnome ...)

[Neal Hogan]

>>>
>>>
 But can a "purist" accept such support and be a true linux user?
>>>
>>> "Linux" is not synonymous with "free".  "Debian" is not synonymous with
>>> "Stallman".  Please keep these facts in mind.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Sure . . . I was just curious to get some particular responses from users.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>
>
> In other words, you were trolling.  Troll.
>
> MAA
>

If that's what you want to call it/me, fine. I will say that I was
genuiously curious and did appreciate your response. Those that
responded cleared things up for me. You may have noticed that my
initial question recognised that I may come across as a troll. I
didn't want to start a whole liscencing thread . . . and that's not
what happened.


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Re: (OT) gnash vs. flash (was Re: Why does installing gnome ...)

[Neal Hogan]

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 5:28 AM, Mark Allums  wrote:
> On 3/17/2010 9:03 PM, Neal Hogan wrote:
>
>> Most (if not all) software has some sort of license, like "use as
>> you'd like but make sure you tell the next person the same" (BSD . .
>> .as I understand it). However, Flash is not just a set of words . . .
>> to use Adobe software without paying for it is stealing . . . money .
>> . . no?
>
> No.  Flash player is distributed free-of-cost by Adobe.  What costs is the
> Flash developer tools, not the player.
>
>
>> But can a "purist" accept such support and be a true linux user?
>
> "Linux" is not synonymous with "free".  "Debian" is not synonymous with
> "Stallman".  Please keep these facts in mind.
>
>

Sure . . . I was just curious to get some particular responses from users.

Thanks.


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Re: (OT) gnash vs. flash (was Re: Why does installing gnome ...)

[Neal Hogan]

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Ron Johnson  wrote:
>
> Enough DDs are sufficiently practical for there to be a non-free tree, and
> Christian Marillat does yeoman's work with
> http://www.debian-multimedia.org/.
>

"non-free?" I know that's what it's called, but I wonder how descriptive it is.

BTW - hats off to Mr. Marillat! His work is nice. Just curious where
it fits into the linux tradition.


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Re: (OT) gnash vs. flash (was Re: Why does installing gnome ...)

[Neal Hogan]

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Andrew Reid  wrote:
> On Wednesday 17 March 2010 20:15:51 Neal Hogan wrote:
>> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Ron Johnson  wrote:
>
>> > Enough DDs are sufficiently practical for there to be a non-free tree,
>> > and Christian Marillat does yeoman's work with
>> > http://www.debian-multimedia.org/.
>>
>> 
>>
>> Ok . . . that's fine, but I'm still curious about the number of
>> debian-user@ folks who appreciate or abide by or whatever the
>> "Stallman-point-o-view."
>>
>> P.S. --  . . . and if I'm lucky, why Stallman might not be relevant to
>> the linux project.
>
>  The Stallman-purist position actually has a significant
> practical upside -- it's impossible to pirate free-as-in-freedom
> software, which means an admin can give users a free hand on the
> systems they work with, and there is almost no danger of my employer
> being embarassed by some kind of license violation if they talk
> about it on their blog or redistribute it or something.

Most (if not all) software has some sort of license, like "use as
you'd like but make sure you tell the next person the same" (BSD . .
.as I understand it). However, Flash is not just a set of words . . .
to use Adobe software without paying for it is stealing . . . money .
. . no?

Is it the case that the flash support offered by Debian is "free"
(i.e., without charge) in the Stallman sense? It would seem not?
Enlighten me, please.

Again, in the end, if you want flash support (no matter what), cool.
But can a "purist" accept such support and be a true linux user?

-Neal


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Re: (OT) gnash vs. flash (was Re: Why does installing gnome ...)

[Neal Hogan]

>
 The rub is that Debian doesn't officially know that Flash exists. Even if
 it
 did, too many DDs are morally opposed to closed-source to want to Depend
 on
 it.
>>>
>>> I highly suspect a flame-war here, but isn't against the
>>> "Stallmanian-principle" for a linux machines to play with those
>>> proprietary kids AT ALL. That is, debian (or any other linux) should
>>> not even consider talking with that kind of software. I'm just curious
>>> how many linux users/devs/etc maintain that position, given that I'm
>>> not one of those users.
>>>
>>
>> Enough DDs are sufficiently practical for there to be a non-free tree, and
>> Christian Marillat does yeoman's work with
>> http://www.debian-multimedia.org/.
>>
>
> 
>
> Ok . . . that's fine, but I'm still curious about the number of
> debian-user@ folks who appreciate or abide by or whatever the
> "Stallman-point-o-view."
>
> P.S. --  . . . and if I'm lucky, why Stallman might not be relevant to
> the linux project.
>

The question is . . . is proprietary software compatible with the
linux philosophy? Does Dick Stallman's POV hold any weight? If not
(which it seems to be, given flash support), then what do we make of
the DD's Ron refers to?

-Neal


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Re: (OT) gnash vs. flash (was Re: Why does installing gnome ...)

[Neal Hogan]

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Ron Johnson  wrote:
> On 2010-03-17 16:35, Neal Hogan wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Ron Johnson 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2010-03-17 10:40, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Installing Gnash screws up Flash.
>>>>
>>>> That is the core of the problem that needs to be fixed.
>>>> There's no reason the two shouldn't be able to coexist peacefully so
>>>> that each user on the machine can choose which flash player she wants
>>>> to use.
>>>>
>>> The rub is that Debian doesn't officially know that Flash exists. Even if
>>> it
>>> did, too many DDs are morally opposed to closed-source to want to Depend
>>> on
>>> it.
>>
>> I highly suspect a flame-war here, but isn't against the
>> "Stallmanian-principle" for a linux machines to play with those
>> proprietary kids AT ALL. That is, debian (or any other linux) should
>> not even consider talking with that kind of software. I'm just curious
>> how many linux users/devs/etc maintain that position, given that I'm
>> not one of those users.
>>
>
> Enough DDs are sufficiently practical for there to be a non-free tree, and
> Christian Marillat does yeoman's work with
> http://www.debian-multimedia.org/.
>



Ok . . . that's fine, but I'm still curious about the number of
debian-user@ folks who appreciate or abide by or whatever the
"Stallman-point-o-view."

P.S. --  . . . and if I'm lucky, why Stallman might not be relevant to
the linux project.


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Re:(OT) gnash vs. flash (was Re: Why does installing gnome ...)

[Neal Hogan]

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Ron Johnson  wrote:
> On 2010-03-17 10:40, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>>
>>> Installing Gnash screws up Flash.
>>
>> That is the core of the problem that needs to be fixed.
>> There's no reason the two shouldn't be able to coexist peacefully so
>> that each user on the machine can choose which flash player she wants
>> to use.
>>
>
> The rub is that Debian doesn't officially know that Flash exists. Even if it
> did, too many DDs are morally opposed to closed-source to want to Depend on
> it.

I highly suspect a flame-war here, but isn't against the
"Stallmanian-principle" for a linux machines to play with those
proprietary kids AT ALL. That is, debian (or any other linux) should
not even consider talking with that kind of software. I'm just curious
how many linux users/devs/etc maintain that position, given that I'm
not one of those users.


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Re: how to convince that debian is one the three major choices for a stable server environment?

[Neal Hogan]

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 7:22 AM, Tim Clewlow  wrote:
>
>> On 22/02/2010 13:01, Γιώργος Πάλλας wrote:
>>> (it is, isn't it? :-) )
>>>
>>> So, yes, we are moving on from our 10year experience with gentoo,
>>> and
>>> are searching for our new environment. From my personal experience
>>> I
>>> would say debian stable - any hard evidence to support the claim?
>>> Server
>>> OS statistics? Statistics for stableness? Bugs? Any white papers
>>> showing
>>> debian's superiority?
>>>
>>> I am also doing my google research, but I'm asking if someone can
>>> point
>>> me to something like real hard evidence...
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> G.
>>
>> Depending on what you want to use the servers for, OpenBSD
>>
>>
>
> I second this - *bsd is very good for servers. Gnu/Linux is adequate
> for small scale enterprises but will not give you the hard core
> grunt that *bsd will. Also OpenBSD has a seriously secure core.
>
>

+3

Check out, www.openbsd.org/users.html to get a better idea of what the
above two posts suggest.


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Re: Install date

[Neal Hogan]

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 6:56 PM, Tim Tebbit  wrote:
> Is there a file generated with a time stamp that would show the age of
> the current install somewhere?
>
>

/var/log/dmesg


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Re: Problems with alsaconf

[Neal Hogan]

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 7:26 AM, surreal  wrote:
> All of a sudden my soundcard refused to work. I used 'alsaconf' and it
> detected the card. I was able to use it but after a reboot all settings seem
> to have lost.
>

Didi you save your settings?

man alsactl

look at the 'store' option.


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Re: How does a novice do this

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 8:48 PM, A. Kane  wrote:
> I am a novice not at all a computer geek. I just want simple clean internet
> and email with a good program like windows media center handling everything
> else along with some axillary stuff. I am not a fan of Windows or the
> Organization or of their products other than they have a monopoly when you
> buy new. I have recently purchased a laptop Toshiba Satellite 300 with
> windows vista. I want to change my system and yet I am frightened because I
> don't know enough. I am an artist and therefore very visual. If I can see it
> I know if I want it. What can you suggest; is there a simple solution. I
> currently use Firefox and Thunderbird and Open Office with Trend Micro as
> the firewall.

I'm not too sure what you're asking. Debian offers firefox,
thunderbird, openOffice, and various firewall software.  What do you
want to see in order to make a decision? Have you looked at Ubuntu?
It's based on Debian and considered by some to be a bit more novice
friendly.

You shouldn't be too afraid. it's easy enough to dual boot OS's and
try various things. In the end, your post is too vague to get specific
suggestions (IMHO).


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Re:[OT] Iceweasel annoyance

[Neal Hogan]

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 11:41 PM, John Jason Jordan  wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:19:58 -0500
> Patrick Wiseman  dijo:
>
>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 10:23 PM, Neal Hogan  wrote:
>> > JJJ,
>> >
>> > You need to slow down.
>
>> I don't have an answer for the OP, but this (top-posted) "response" is
>> completely unresponsive, presumptuous, arrogant, unhelpful, dickish,
>> and possibly a reason why people who come to this forum for help
>> leave, pissed off.  Give the guy a break.  He has a perfectly
>> articulated and reasonable problem.  Maybe someone other than me or
>> Neal can actually offer him some help.
>
> Not to worry. Celejar just posted a solution. I don't have it working
> yet, but it looks very promising. And I can possibly use the methodlogy
> later in other situations.
>
> As for being offended, yeah, it is annoying when people post things
> like that, but I've been on e-lists and forums for ages with Linux. I'm
> a big boy now. I can take it. Besides, he really meant well.
>
> I should add that I currently have Debian testing almost to the point
> where my Jaunty installation was. I still have a couple apps to install
> and configure, and I need to migrate my printers, and my bluetooth
> mouse still isn't working. But I'm very close to having a very usable
> OS now. Moreover, I'm liking it a lot. Like wow! I'm riding on my own
> now without the Ubuntu training wheels!
>

To all those who think that my post was "completely unresponsive,
presumptuous, arrogant, unhelpful, dickish, and possibly a reason why
people who come to this forum for help leave, pissed off" let me say a
few of things

1) Posting your concern or your approval of such a concern is
self-refuting (plus it was top-posted, b/c it wasn't a direct response
to the OP's problem).
2) The OP seems to have appreciated the manner in which I sent it. I
suggested "taking off the training wheels" and the OP is starting to
do so.
3) The "help" was merely a pointier to a tutorial.

I wish John nothing but the best. If you were annoyed or offended,
then you miss the point. Using this list as your personal man
page/blog is not fair (yes, yes . . . refer to my first point ;-).


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Re: Iceweasel annoyance

[Neal Hogan]

JJJ,

You need to slow down.

Yes . . . there is a period one needs to get used to a new system. If
you have completely switched (i.e., wiped your ubuntu partition) to
debian and aren't comfortable, shame on you. It's not that Debian is
that much different, but it's that such a move is irresponsible, given
you're lack of experience.

It was suggested that you start slowly . . . dual boot . . . try stuff
out and see what happens. Problems with visiting and dealing with
websites are not areas to claim problems with the OS. If you want a
certain bit of software, look for it, try to configure it and , WHEN
ALL ELSE FAILS, come to this list for help.

As others have said, *NIX requires work. Ubuntu (and others) try to
make that work as little as possible;) If you want to advance your
*nix skills, then you need to do stuff on your own. There are so many
forums, archives, tutorials that can help you, if you only look . . .
. . . . so . . . . look!

Once, you've exhausted the possibilities, you come to this list.

jjj, please take this as encouragement . . . I've been there/I am there.



On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 8:51 PM, John Jason Jordan  wrote:
> I shouldn't blame Iceweasel, because when I used to use Firefox it did
> the same thing. And they are not the only apps that annoy me with this
> "feature."
>
> What is this annoyance?
>
> I am on a web page and there is a link for Contact Us. I know little of
> html, but I think the code behind the link is "mailto." If I click on
> it a window pops up on the desktop inviting me to configure Evolution.
> Well, Evolution is not configured and never will be configured. I use
> Sylpheed for my mail reader. I am very happy with Sylpheed and have no
> intention of changing.
>
> So I went into Preferences > Applications in Iceweasel and noted that
> for mailto only Yahoo mail and Gmail were listed. I don't want to use
> either of them; I want it to launch a Compose Message window in
> Sylpheed. So I deleted them. Now when I click on the Contact Us link in
> the web page Iceweasel pops up a little box that says "This link needs
> to be opened with an application: Send to:" -- and then I can click on
> a button to choose the application.
>
> And there is the annoyance. When I click on the button I get a Nautilus
> browser window. Like I know where the Sylpheed executable file is
> located or what it is called. And you MUST use this browser window to
> select the application. You can't just type the name of the application
> in a box like you can when you edit your Applications menu.
>
> If I right-click on any other file on my computer I get an "Open with"
> dialog box where I can choose from a list of installed applications.
> Why can't Iceweasel present me with something like that? G.
>
>
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Re: Is Squeeze right for me?

[Neal Hogan]

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 11:44 AM, John Jason Jordan  wrote:
> I have several years of experience with Ubuntu, but I have never looked
> inside. I'm just a pointy-clicky desktop user. How things work has
> never been of interest to me except when they don't work. Even then I
> just learn enough to fix the problem and go back to living.
>
> However, several Linux friends have suggested it's time for me to move
> on. According to the advice I receive I no longer need the Ubuntu
> training wheels and I would be better served by going to a less
> newbie-oriented distro. Perhaps they are right, but I grew up with
> Synaptic and .deb files, and I really don't want to leave the Debian
> world. Therefore, this morning I installed testing on a new hard disk,
> leaving my old Ubuntu hard disk untouched so I can always go back to it.
>
> Having spent just a day in testing I am not happy with the quantity of
> bugs. Yes, I know it is called "testing" for a reason. And I am happy
> to do my part to help fix problems. Yet I need a computer that I can
> use for real work. But at the same time I want the latest and greatest.
> I need OOo 3.1 and Scribus 1.3.5.1 and the most recent versions of
> several other apps that I live in all day long. The stable versions of
> Debian are not sufficiently cutting edge for me. Or have I
> misunderstood that?
>
> The local Linux friends who thought I should move on from Ubuntu
> suggested testing as the closest in the Debian world to the Ubuntu way
> of doing things. After today I am thinking they were wrong.

The following is my initial reaction and it may be something you've
thought of. If so, I apologize.

I'm not sure of the relationship between the ubuntu world and the
debian world and I'm not sure what you mean when you spent a day in
testing, but might I suggest that you dual boot ubuntu with debian
(perhaps test all of the versions and maybe even other distros). There
is software out there that can move your partitions around so that
your ubuntu set-up isn't affected.

God luck!
-Neal


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Re: Inquiry:What is the equivalent of "ping -f -l" on the Debian server?

[Neal Hogan]

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 6:25 AM, hadi motamedi  wrote:
> Dear All
> To find the optimum MTU size , on the MS Windows client , we need to try for
> "C:\ping www.google.com -f -l 1472" and then do for trial and error to find
> the optimum size . Can you please do me favor and let me know what is the
> equivalent of "ping -f -l" on the Debian server ?
> Let me thank you in advance

Did you look at ping's manpage or are you again, using this list as
your personal tutor?

Go to the command line and type: man ping
>
>


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Re: debian won't load

[Neal Hogan]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Carol Walter
 wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I'm trying to install debian from CD.  All goes along fine until I get to
> passed the selection of the groups of apps.  Then it says its selecting and
> installing software and goes to 5%.  At that point, it just stops or hangs
> or something.  I have tried every software set it can load and any
> combination there of.  Nothing works.
>
> Prior to this the message says the base system is installed.  I thought that
> I could boot it at that point, but I get a message saying that GRUB is
> loading, please wait...  and then I get an Error 15.
>
> Any ideas?
>

Bad CD burn?

How did you get the CD? Which version of debian are we talking about?
Do you have internet connection? If so, maybe try a net install.


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Re: Inquiry:How to enable Telnet & SSH on my Debian 3.1 server?

[Neal Hogan]

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 5:14 AM, hadi motamedi  wrote:
> Thank you for your reply . Please be informed that I tried as the followings
> :
> #apt-cache search telnet
> #apt-get install telnet
> At now , my Debian server can telnet to my MS Windows client but my MS
> Windows client cannot telnet to my Debian server . Can you please let me
> know what is still wrong ?
> Thank you in advance

# apt-get install telnetd
# /etc/init.d/inetd restart


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Re: install

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 11:08 AM, chandrashekar sasnoor
 wrote:
> i wanted to download the debain install but it dosen t allow me what should
> i do

Can you expand on that?


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Re: Need to reconfigure sound on every boot

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Andreas Ronnquist
 wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> I need to do a alsaconf after every boot, otherwise I don't get any
> sound. This is on a ABit motherboard, Nvidia nforce 590 chipset, with
> built-in sound. How can I make it configure the built-in sound-card
> automatically on every boot?
>

Once you set you sound settings ('alsamixer' is one way of doing so),
you need to enable /etc/init.d/alsasound. Be sure to make sure that
the script is pointing to the correct location of your config
(asound.state) file (on my gentoo machine it is in /etc).


> I am running debian stable, Linux 2.6.26-2, amd64, and I'm under the
> impression that this has changed somewhat recently.
>
> thanks in advance
> --
> Andreas Ronnquist 
>
>
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Re: Blank CDs Not Being Detected

[Neal Hogan]

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Ed  wrote:
>     I went to try and burn a CD this morning (the latest ubuntu ;) ) and I
> noticed my system does not recognize blank CDs anymore.

How was your system before, when it did recognize them? What have you
changed since you last stuck a black disc in? Perhaps that'll give you
a clue.

> I'm tried multiple
> CD brands, CD-Rs, CD-RWs, and a different drive.  On ubuntu blank CDs are
> recognized just fine.  On debian lenny (kernel 2.6.26-2-486) it is as if
> there is no device in the drive.  I'll be happy to give more details or run
> commands if there are any questions.  How can I file a bug?  What package is
> this a part of?  HAL, the Kernel, Nautilus, Gnome?  I'm just not sure! :P
> Thank you!
>
> -Ed


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Re: No "Shut Down..." option in "System" menu

[Neal Hogan]

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Merciadri Luca
 wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hello,
>
> I have no "shut down..." option in my "System" menu (I am using GNOME
> front-end). I am thus obliged to shut down using the terminal. How can
> I make these buttons appearing?

Guess . . .

Perhaps a permissions issue. That is, perhaps the user doesn't have
the permissions necessary to shutdown and Gnome doesn't offer the
option to such a user. What happens if you start you Gnome session as
root? Do you have the shutdown option then?

>
> Thanks.
> - --
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> See http://www.student.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~merciadri/
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Re: [mutt] label mails with colored tags

[Neal Hogan]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Peter Jordan  wrote:
> Wayne, Thu Oct 22 2009 19:07:04 GMT+0200 (CEST):
>>
>> Peter Jordan wrote:
>>>
>>> Neal Hogan, Thu Oct 22 2009 18:41:58 GMT+0200 (CEST):
>>> And how to label mails with tags?
>>>
>>
>> For a start
>> While in mutt, hit F1 (the Manual page) and do a search for 'tag'.
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
>
> sorry, but as far as I understand, tagging in mutt means to select multiple
> message for a common action.
>
> I want to label a message with a tag like "debian", "work", "private" ASO

As far as I can tell, you're using 'tag' two different ways. There is
the mutt 'tag' (which is close to what you suggest) and then there is
your 'tag', which appears to mean something like 'certain part of an
email (eg, address, phrase in subject, etc.)'. If you want messages
from debian-users@ to be highlighted in red and ones from joeSchmoe to
be in yellow, you can do this.

Wayne's post is suggesting that you do some work and read the
documentation. Your original question has been answered. You can do
the work to find out the details of how to do it.

It's not that hard.

>
> PJ
>
>
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Re: [mutt] label mails with colored tags

[Neal Hogan]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Peter Jordan  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I plan to migrate from thunderbird to mutt.
>
> In thunderbird it is possible to define custom tags (e.g. debian with color
> red), so that the mails labeled with debian are highlighted red.
>
> Is that also possible with mutt?

Sure

http://www.mutt.org/doc/devel/manual.html#color


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Re: Could you recommend CD/DVD writer program?

[Neal Hogan]

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Chris Jones  wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 04:10:35PM EDT, John Hasler wrote:
>> CJ writes:
>> > What exactly is on-topic to debian-user?
>>
>> The use of Debian.
>
> And therefore discussing _debian_ mailing-lists policy.
>

I'm curious . . . when you mention this are thinking of the many
threads involving rants about gmail, hotmaill, outlook, etc.,
reply-to-sender, reply-reply to list, etc.?

If so, in what sense are they debian issues (i.e., the distro you're running)?

> How does the choice of a CD/DVD writer program have anything to do with
> the distribution you are running?
>

It's an issue of (distro) supported devices . . . no?


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Re: Could you recommend CD/DVD writer program?

[Neal Hogan]

My goodness! This and the other 50 threads on the same topic in the
last two months need to stop. Really! Some have problems with
receiving mail from certain providers. Others have problems with users
of providers that have "acceptable" features. Others just like to keep
threads like this going. I for one do not need to see another thread
about the manner in which users post to the list b/c it is futile.

Sure, sometimes noobs f things up. Yes, sometimes experienced users f
things up. Get over it or leave the list. This is NOT a debian issue!
Amazingly, questions are being "answered" despite the manner in which
they are asked.

  I understand that pet-peevs are difficult to  . . . ignore, but get
over it. Just the other day, the list lost a wonderful participant . .
. joeHill (moment of silence ;-)

Questions get asked . . . if they are asked in a manner in which you
approve and have something (possibly) to offer, then offer it . . .
otherwise, delete and move on. Subtlety has yet to work concerning
this issue. A continuous set of threads that address an issue that is
not going to change is  . . . well . . . less than advantageous to the
project. Free up some space for those who actually have issues that
can be taken care of.

If the delivery in which this *rant* was sent offended anyone . . . too bad!

Oh . . . Happy (belated) Columbus Day my fellow Americans!

-Neal


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Re: Someone help me in the right direction for networks <- Might be off topic

[Neal Hogan]

On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 7:45 PM, green  wrote:
> Dean Chester wrote at 2009-10-11 05:38 -0500:
>>Now the main problem how would i go about
>>configuring the workstations to allow home directries on any computer so
>>users do not have to have specific computers and they can go in and use
>>any freely avaliable machine. I am open to another suggestions.
>
> You might want to consider booting the systems over the network from the local
> server, like LTSP[1].
>
> [1] http://ltps.org
>

Interesting link ;-)

but, try ltsp.org

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Re: Someone help me in the right direction for networks <- Might be off topic

[Neal Hogan]

On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 5:38 AM, Dean Chester
 wrote:
> Hi,
> I've been asked to set up a network of between 6 and 10 computers, using
> linux yet i don't know what to do. I've decided to allocate 2 as servers and
> because we have to run our network with in another network so we are hoping
> to run the 1 server as a copy of the other one just it will be sitting
> outside of the firewall(not allowed to open other ports on the firewall) so
> we can access documents at home, i'm thinking of running a webdav server to
> do that part.. Now the main problem how would i go about configuring the
> workstations to allow home directries on any computer so users do not have
> to have specific computers and they can go in and use any freely avaliable
> machine. I am open to another suggestions.
> Thanks in advance
> Dean

I'm curious what you've looked at b/c there is a lot of info
available. When I google 'debian networking' I get a bunch of (what
looks to be) good stuff.

As far as users having access to there home dirs from any machine, why
not have them ssh into the server, where their home dirs are located.
You can set up ssh to forward X packets (man ssh) and they can run a
desktop on their local machine, but through the server.

Just a thought . . .

>


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Re: Dual head config

[Neal Hogan]

On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Paras pradhan  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am using debian lenny in my Dell 640m Laptop. When I connect my
> Samsung HDTV to the VGA output, I need to restart the X . And as soon
> as I restart X, the display doesn't look normal in my Laptop but it is
> great in the TV. How do i fix this? I want to run both display in the
> normal resolution and good quality. In addition, right now my laptop
> display is being mirrored to the TV. So what do I need to do so that
> the display get extended rather than mirroring.
>
> Thanks!
> Paras.

Take a look xrandr.

>
>
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Re: Hello! Please, I need your help! An advice of what I need to download to

[Neal Hogan]

On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 8:55 AM, guido mezzalana  wrote:
>
>  Hi,
>
> I am trying to sort it out the folloing problem about Debian installation.
>
> The only problem I am getting is I have not sound! clickin on volume control
> is telling me:
>
>  no volume control GS streamer plugins and/or devices found
>
> My lap is an IBM Thinkpad T21, so far Debian and Mepis is giving me the same
> issue, I like to point out with other free open source my lap is just fine!
>
> I really would like to instal Debian, please, could you advice and/or lead
> me to download the right software to solve my problem.
>
> I would greatly appreciate your help!
>
> Many thanks in advance and I eagerly await your response.

Google (or any search engine) may help.

I googled 'debian sound' and several potential helping sites were suggested.

Note that just giving the model of laptop does not tell anybody what
sound card you have. So, first search for a solution before asking the
list. Second, if/when you do bother the list provide more info.

>
> Respectfully,
>
> G. Mezzalana
>
>
>
> 
> New! Hotmail sign-in on the MSN homepage.


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Re: Suggestions for video/tv capture?

[Neal Hogan]

>
> For the OP, your requirements can be met quite well with a Haughpage
> PVR-150 (which I use on my Mythbuntu box) or PVR-350 or PVR-500.  All
> seem well supported.  I record from my DirecTV receiver using the
> S-Video input on the PVR-150.  The PVR series mentioned are analog
> capture only.

I've recently had success with the Hauppauge HVR-1600, using MythTV in
 Gentoo box. It's not "officially" supported, but works here.

There was chatter of the 150 and 350 being hard to come by. If that's
true, then I recommend this alternative, which will probably be
"officially supported sooner or later.


-Neal


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Re: Gmail again

[Neal Hogan]

> Your message goes where your MUA sends it.  If you don't want it to go
> to the OP don't send it there.
> --
> John Hasler

Ya . . . the more I think about it, it makes better sense to inculde
the OP's email, in case you want to take an OT post offlist . . . a
practice that is underused, IMO.
.
>
>
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Re: Gmail again

[Neal Hogan]

On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Vinicius Massuchetto
 wrote:
> Another thing that really piss me off is when I want to reply a
> message to the list.
> Pressing `R` or clicking on `Reply` places the author of the current
> email on the `To:` field, not the list address.
>
> Let me know if anyone had a workaround for this in GMail.

Hit 'Reply to all' and delete the contents of the 'To:' window. The
list should be in the 'Cc:' box.

FYI -  The gentoo-users list only sends messages to the list from the
list and doesn't include the OP. So, when you hit reply, it goes to
the list and not the OP (directly).

>
> Thanks!
> --
> Vinícius Massuchetto
> http://vinicius.soylocoporti.org.br
>
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Alexander Kaphuk
>  wrote:
>> Marcelo Chiapparini wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 2009/9/22 Alexander Kaphuk >> >
>>>
>>>    Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
>>>
>>>        On Ter, 22 Set 2009, Alexander Kaphuk wrote:
>>>
>>>            As far as my initial email being sent three times in a
>>>            row. I do apologise for the incident. I didn't do it on
>>>            purpose though. I was under the impression that I would
>>>            receive a copy of that email straight after sending it
>>>            off. I thought that's what happened when I new post was
>>>            sent. It didn't arrive, so I thought I'd try sending it
>>>            again. Thought I'd mention about that, as I realise that
>>>            some people were a bit upset by that.
>>>
>>>
>>>        You did get the e-mail (well, at least the mailserver sent it
>>>        to you). But Gmail as a "feature" that causes this received
>>>        e-mail to be ignored because there is the same e-mail in your
>>>        Sent "folder". Once a reply is received, the whole
>>>        conversation is moved to the INBOX (or a label of your choice,
>>>        if you have a filter) again.
>>>
>>>    I see. Thanks for letting me know.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> the solutions is to define a filter in gmail. The filter should put a
>>> label (for example "debian-user") on every email with
>>> "debian-u...@lists-debian.org " in the
>>> "To:" field. This works fine for me. Besides putting the label, you can
>>> choose to remove the email from the INBOX folder automatically as well.
>>>  My two cents.
>>> Marcelo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>    
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Marcelo Chiapparini
>>> http://sites.google.com/site/marcelochiapparini
>>
>> Thanks a lot. I'll look into it.
>>
>>
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Re: Suggestions for desktop manager: [was Re: Fast booting for a Debian system - and suggestions for said system]

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Lisi  wrote:
> On Tuesday 29 September 2009 23:20:06 Preston Boyington wrote:
>> Kevin Ross wrote:
>> 
>>
>> > If you want auto-login, and fast startup with minimal dependencies, then
>> > skip the display manager, change your getty to rungetty and configure it
>> > to autologin, and add startx to your ~/.bash_profile.  Then of course you
>> > put whatever window manager you want into ~/.xinitrc.
>>
>> i did this back when i ran Fluxbox and it worked great.
>>
>> another option would be 'SLiM' for your login manager.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Arrant Drivel - really, it's just trash...
>> http://www.arrantdrivel.com/
>>
>> Where the road takes me - a highwayman's perspective
>> http://www.prestonboyington.com/
>
> Thanks, guys! :-)  That was a fast response even by this list's standards!
>
> I am falling asleep on my keyboard - it is midnight here - so I'll try it/them
> in the morning.  It sounds like just what I want.
>
> I sent an email just before going to bed to catch owls and those who are just
> getting up.  By the time it is morning here, it will be night for half the
> list.
>
> Lisi

Sentimental . . . yet not necessary. You can easily try out every
("good") wm/de for free.

To ask the hundreds+ who use debian which wm/de they like is wasting
your and my time/bandwidth.

Check them out!

I really can't believe that your asking for help to set up your desktop!

Ahhh . . . maybe I don't get the point of this mailing list. If so, I
apologize.


>
> Lisi
>
>
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Re: how to get sound back?

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Hugh Lawson  wrote:
> Neal Hogan  writes:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:10 AM, Hugh Lawson  wrote:
>
>
>>> Yesterday, after running some .avi files with mplayer, my system lost
>>> sound. Rebooting brought the sound back.
>
>> After you lose
>> sound, what do you see when you run 'alsamixer -V all'?
>>
>> Perhaps there is something in alsamixer's manpage.

As someone else suggested, a "competing" app may cut sound. That is,
there may be another app that is trying to use mplayer as well.

Perhaps you can check what you have running when it it happens again.

#ps ax
>
>
> Hugh again: I'll have to try that later, because sound is ok now.
>
> hl
>
>
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Re: how to get sound back?

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:10 AM, Hugh Lawson  wrote:
>
> Debian lenny, alsa
>
> dpkg -l | grep alsa
>
> ii  alsa-base    1.0.17.dfsg-4      ALSA driver configuration files
> ii  alsa-utils   1.0.16-2           ALSA utilities
> ii  gstreamer0.10-alsa   0.10.19-2  GStreamer plugin for ALSA
> ii  libsdl1.2debian-alsa 1.2.13-2
>
>
> Yesterday, after running some .avi files with mplayer, my system lost
> sound. Rebooting brought the sound back.
>
> How could I have restarted sound without rebooting?

I don't know why you're losing sound, but I'm curious. After you lose
sound, what do you see when you run 'alsamixer -V all'?

Perhaps there is something in alsamixer's manpage.

>
>
> Hugh
>
>
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Re: sudden power off ... ?!?

[Neal Hogan]

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Dan  wrote:

>   Hello List,
>
> It is few days that I installed (standard installation) Debian Lenny on
> this pc.


Which pc? If it's a harware issue, perhaps letting us know what hardware you
have may help (dmesg?). Perhaps someone may have had similar issues with
similar hardware.


>   Randomly (maybe once or sometimes two a day) it powers off like if it
> has suddenly been plugged off from the AC. If I then soon turn it on no
> problems to start up. I suspect this could be a hardware fault. I would like
> to check also any settings in the BIOS.
> Are there any possibilities that this problem is related to any software
> bug ?
>

Again, what hardware you have and which software you're using may help you
get help.


>
> Thanks, dan
>
>

Re: [ANN] New mailing list for offtopic stuff

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Paul Johnson  wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-09-14 at 00:19 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
>
>> The new list is d-community-offto...@lists.alioth.debian.org[1]. At the
>> moment it is open for posting by anyone[2] and you are welcome to move
>> any discussions to that list which are OT on debian-user or other Debian
>> lists (remember the "Sponge Bob" and "growing broccoli" threads?).
>
> That's nice...but where's the gmane?

Add this thread to the list . . . but . . . ummm . ..  wait . . .
where does this go . . damn . . . sorry?

>
>


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Re: using hotmail.com or mail.live.com (movin' OT)

[Neal Hogan]

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Paul Johnson  wrote:
> On Sun, 2009-09-13 at 21:00 -0500, Neal Hogan wrote:
>> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Ron Johnson  wrote:
>> > On 2009-09-13 16:33, Peter Crawford wrote:
>> >>
>> >> September 10, 2009 1:06:03 PM Ron wrote,
>> >> "Did you forget to write something?"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Well I've updated the version number in about:config
>> >> general.useragent.extra.firefox ... Firefox/3.0.9
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> If you read this, it worked.
>> >
>> > I see it, but standard quoting rules weren't followed.  The only thing you
>> > can do about that is not use hotmail...
>>
>> "well, I use hotmail, and everything works just fine!"
>>
>> "ya, but . . . I hate hotmail."
>>
>> Are we goin' there again?
>
> You can make Hotmail do the right thing.  It's just a matter of whether
> or not it's worth the effort when the default is to do the wrong thing,
> and there's no way to change that.

Are you trying to catch my bluff? "You can make Hotmail do the right
thing," yet there is no way to change the default? Ron (Johnson) is
that you?

If so, nice alias.

If not, I might agree, given a certain explanation of what you said.

>
>


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Re: using hotmail.com or mail.live.com (movin' OT)

[Neal Hogan]

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Ron Johnson  wrote:
> On 2009-09-13 16:33, Peter Crawford wrote:
>>
>> September 10, 2009 1:06:03 PM Ron wrote,
>> "Did you forget to write something?"
>>
>>
>> Well I've updated the version number in about:config
>> general.useragent.extra.firefox ... Firefox/3.0.9
>>
>>
>> If you read this, it worked.
>
> I see it, but standard quoting rules weren't followed.  The only thing you
> can do about that is not use hotmail...

"well, I use hotmail, and everything works just fine!"

"ya, but . . . I hate hotmail."

Are we goin' there again?

>
> --
> Brawndo's got what plants crave.  It's got electrolytes!
>
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Re: using hotmail.com ...

[Neal Hogan]

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Peter Crawford  wrote:
>
> September 10, 2009 1:06:03 PM Ron wrote,
> "Did you forget to write something?"Well I've updated the version number in 
> about:config
> general.useragent.extra.firefox ... Firefox/3.0.9
>
>                         ... Peter


Do you have any idea what we are seeing?


>
>
> _
> New! Get to Messenger faster: Sign-in here now!
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Re: [ANN] New mailing list for offtopic stuff

[Neal Hogan]

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Andrei Popescu
 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> As some of you might recall I have been pushing for quite some time for
> a debian-offtopic list (#425439, #427218).
>
> It seems I have managed to convince Holger Levsen, responsible for the
> www.debian-community.org project, that such a list would be beneficial
> for the community around Debian and he was kind enough to host such a
> list with the d-community project on alioth.debian.org
>
> The new list is d-community-offto...@lists.alioth.debian.org[1]. At the
> moment it is open for posting by anyone[2] and you are welcome to move
> any discussions to that list which are OT on debian-user or other Debian
> lists (remember the "Sponge Bob" and "growing broccoli" threads?).
>
> This however does not mean that the list is a place for endless
> flamewars and trolling. Please be nice to each other :)
>
> [1] http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
> [2] this might change if the spam becomes unbearable.
>
> Regards,
> Andrei
> P.S. Discussing whether such a list makes sense or not is OT on
> debian-user, which is why I set Reply-To: accordingly ;)

Too late . . . for obvious reasons. The decision has been made and
your gonna have to deal with whatever 'OT' means.

Good luck!

> --
> If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
> (Albert Einstein)
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKrWHTAAoJEHNWs3jeoi3pINcH/Rrlqx/o6QNqBwuTUlQJsoZL
> BTgL7trQ4ewLOzHN6+cxxNcXu+El2d9R5UWxOqBdCpJlvtVuYyKhM+pCG6u8JSUs
> iA4H0hdrZbtoHAh1GFpYt4kwt5SGwf3QraDMjETIDTv/McFCuqnGG+jjZhYObv6Z
> iS6gpzb8J/SoexybSkqt5BDByuMJF4noBJJTAEG9HbqU6VE9aisg4zaHfB2Q6tD+
> 1KDeAdqeLLKMcPc9/bKDQOcFBYtWNkjwn37h2Hd4XmVXB9nJBAIFPPlvmDL3X6Ea
> kMzODqsDR+m/aVf6GNzeuE7Djna98H1GZwQO6FJE6Ur0DSGqxx5jD3az8S/sqt0=
> =A/NH
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
>


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Re: Switching from GNOME to another window manager

[Neal Hogan]

On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Jason Hsu wrote:
> I used the default install to install Debian on a laptop as the sole OS.
>
> It boots up in GNOME, which is too slow and sluggish.  How can I switch to 
> XFCE, Fluxbox, or some other lightweight window manager?

You d'load/install the wm/de you want, then tell X to open with with
it. Again, documentation is your friend. Something like:
http://wiki.debian.org/xinitrc

Note that you're going to get a ton of different responses to a
question like, "Which wm/de should I use?" So, your best bet is to try
some. It's (usually) easy and (usually) free.

Again, do, at least, a google search for an answer before bothering
the list with questions.

>
> --
> Jason Hsu 
>
>
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Re: Getting network connection

[Neal Hogan]

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2009-09-05 21:24, Jason Hsu wrote:
>>
>> I successfully installed Debian on a laptop, but it's refusing to
>> connect to the Internet.  It had no difficulty connecting during
>> the installation process, but it's not connecting now.  How do I
>> start a network connection?  How do I start auto DHCP?
>>
>
> Wired or wireless?

Also, what have you tried? Have you looked at the Debian
documentation? There is lots of helpful stuff.
http://www.debian.org/doc/

If your more specific about you situation (eg., where it is and how
you got there), then you're likely to get more helpful suggestions.

>
> --
> Brawndo's got what plants crave.  It's got electrolytes!
>
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Re: Reporting List Mail As SPAM

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Boyd Stephen Smith
Jr. wrote:
> I think someone is reporting valid list mail as SPAM.  I got notified today
> that one of the mails I sent to the list was identified as SPAM.  The Return-
> Path on the message was:  user=harvenahump=gmail@lists.debian.org>; the Message-Id was munged; the
> SpamCop URL is:
> 
>
> How can I help prevent (or reduce the impact of) mis-reporting list mail as
> SPAM?

FYI -- The above message was spammed by gmail (I know, I know . . .
another reason to hate gmail.) I suspect I get most of your posts. I
don't know why this one was marked as spam. Guess: "spam" was in the
subject.

> --
> Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.                   ,= ,-_-. =.
> b...@iguanasuicide.net                   ((_/)o o(\_))
> ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy         `-'(. .)`-'
> http://iguanasuicide.net/                    \_/
>
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Re: List Ettiquette

[Neal Hogan]

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2009-08-29 23:34, Neal Hogan wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I forget when we made this agreement :)
>>>
>>> Well before you started using the internet on a regular basis.
>>
>> Well, it must have been against my will.
>
> In High School Civics class, that was called "tacit consent of the
> governed".

Certainly, you don't believe everything the high school football coach
. . . I mean civics teacher told you.

>
> --
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> to moral, physical and intellectual progress.
>
>
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Re: List Ettiquette

[Neal Hogan]

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2009-08-29 23:25, Neal Hogan wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>> We don't have to think
>
> Arrrghhh!  The dumbing-down of American civilization!!
>
> Must... end... thread... now... before... write... mile... long... screed!!!

I thought you were the one being realistic. I was just trying to  . .
. end the thread.

>
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>
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Re: List Ettiquette

[Neal Hogan]

>>
>> I forget when we made this agreement :)
>
> Well before you started using the internet on a regular basis.

Well, it must have been against my will.

>
>>> If someone comes on here and starts asking us to forgive the
>>> fact that they use different letters than we do, we're gonna say 'go f
>>> yourself', and with good reason.
>>>
>>
>> I have yet to see someone use different letters.
>
> You've never seen a "foreign" language on the Internet??
> http://members.cox.net/ron.l.johnson/Its_Greek_to_Me.png
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-italian/2009/08/msg8.html
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-chinese-gb/2009/08/threads.html

ugh! . . . umm . . . "got me""

>
> --
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> to moral, physical and intellectual progress.
>
>
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Re: Reason #14749 to hate gmail (was Re: List Ettiquette)

[Neal Hogan]

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2009-08-29 23:06, Neal Hogan wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Ron Johnson
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2009-08-29 22:45, Neal Hogan wrote:
>
> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> Just closing the gmail message (i.e., failed joke). I guess it should
>>>> have been past  tense.
>>>>
>>> Makes it difficult (impossible?) to find the correct thread to reply
>>> to...
>>
>> ???
>>
>> I didn't change the thread subject. I suspect it's too late for me to
>> get your wit (if you're offering any).
>>
>> I guess the point is (which you seem to agree to) is that there is no
>> point in fighting the gmail-thing on this list. You are a valuable
>> participant who doesn't seem to need all debian users to be ~mutt
>> users to be the recipients of you insights.
>>
>> In the end, it's their/my loss.
>
> Didn't realize there were any references to gmail in this thread, so I
> assumed (yes, yes, shame on me!) you meant the "Fetchmail and Gmail" thread
> from 2 weeks ago,
>

Again, I apologize for facilitating . . .

As with all subject changing threads, stuff gets confusing . . .
mailing list etiquette 101?

> --
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> to moral, physical and intellectual progress.
>
>
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Re: List Ettiquette

[Neal Hogan]

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:10 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2009-08-29 23:02, JoeHill wrote:
>>
>> Neal Hogan wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> get over the email format!
>>
>> It's called being polite, and putting other people's needs ahead of your
>> own.
>> It's not a bad thing, it's a human thing.
>>
>>> gmail provides a nice gui-riffic format that many feel comfortable
>>> using. I don't get where this complaining about client usage is going.
>>> If you a want  more "pure" OS, then . . . u . . . go somewhere
>>> else.
>>
>> It's not a question of 'pure', it's a question of standards. The reason we
>> are
>> all able to communicate is that we all agree to a standard set of symbols
>> to
>> convey meaning. If someone comes on here and starts asking us to forgive
>> the
>> fact that they use different letters than we do, we're gonna say 'go f
>> yourself', and with good reason.
>>
>> Standards are the reason we're all here. Standards are the reason we use
>> things
>> like Debian. Standards are the reason that Debian works.
>>
>> Can people deviate? Yes. Is it a good thing for people to deviate from
>> standards once in awhile? Absolutely. Should they be surprised or confused
>> when
>> someone calls them on it? Not if they have a working brain.
>
> While I agree with what you wrote, the sad fact is that gmail's pervasive
> adoption by geeks has in much email conversation pushed aside the /de jure/
> and /de facto/ in-line posting standard and replaced it with a new /de
> facto/ standard.
>
> We keepers of the in-line posting flame are a shrinking minority, now
> dominant only on Very Geeky lists.

I'm in the mood to continue this thread . . . I apologize . . .

Quite right! It seems to me, that if this "html/gmail" thing is
pervasive enough as you (no one in particular) seem to think it is and
are that annoyed, then you are going to continue to be annoyed.

As Ron has just pointed out, this is the norm . . . and for good
reason! We don't have to think; we have email, calendar,  . . . shit .
. . I'm sure there are other things . . . it's free and gui-riffic . .
. very appealing to many.

Again, the inline thing is not a gmail/guiMail thing. I'm responding
via gmail (if it is not inline, please (truthfully) let me know). It's
a user thing, as most things are.

LONG LIVE THE IN-LINE POSTING FLAME (just kidding . . . sincerely, STOP)

>
> --
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>
>
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Re: List Ettiquette

[Neal Hogan]

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:02 PM, JoeHill wrote:
> Neal Hogan wrote:
>
>> 
>> 
>> get over the email format!
>
> It's called being polite, and putting other people's needs ahead of your own.
> It's not a bad thing, it's a human thing.
>
>> gmail provides a nice gui-riffic format that many feel comfortable
>> using. I don't get where this complaining about client usage is going.
>> If you a want  more "pure" OS, then . . . u . . . go somewhere
>> else.
>
> It's not a question of 'pure', it's a question of standards. The reason we are
> all able to communicate is that we all agree to a standard set of symbols to
> convey meaning.

I forget when we made this agreement :)

>If someone comes on here and starts asking us to forgive the
> fact that they use different letters than we do, we're gonna say 'go f
> yourself', and with good reason.
>

I have yet to see someone use different letters.

> Standards are the reason we're all here. Standards are the reason we use 
> things
> like Debian. Standards are the reason that Debian works.

It does . . . no disagreement here. But, to expect users to use the
standards that are not clear enough to eliminate gmail as standard is
silly.

Certainly, there is a certain level of etiquette that "should" be
adhered to and that is something that can/may be curbed, but as I say,
gmail is a service that is going to be used (and is not the cause of
impoliteness). Bitcing about gmail is silly.

>
> Can people deviate? Yes. Is it a good thing for people to deviate from
> standards once in awhile? Absolutely. Should they be surprised or confused 
> when
> someone calls them on it? Not if they have a working brain.

Clearly.

>
> --
> J
>
>
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Re: Reason #14749 to hate gmail (was Re: List Ettiquette)

[Neal Hogan]

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2009-08-29 22:45, Neal Hogan wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Ron Johnson
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2009-08-29 22:31, Neal Hogan wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> get over the email format!
>>>
>>> I know.  Lost that war a long time ago...
>>>
>>>> gmail provides a nice gui-riffic format that many feel comfortable
>>>> using. I don't get where this complaining about client usage is going.
>>>> If you a want  more "pure" OS, then . . . u . . . go somewhere
>>>> else.
>>>>
>>>> Ron (et al) . . .  you seem to have no problem responding to the
>>>> majority of posts to this list. Is it really a matter of principle? We
>>>> understand that you "hate" gmail, but when you respond to this post
>>>> you will be admitting that it has no real affect on the overall debain
>>>> project.
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>
>>> Huh?
>>
>> Just closing the gmail message (i.e., failed joke). I guess it should
>> have been past  tense.
>>
>
> Makes it difficult (impossible?) to find the correct thread to reply to...

???

I didn't change the thread subject. I suspect it's too late for me to
get your wit (if you're offering any).

I guess the point is (which you seem to agree to) is that there is no
point in fighting the gmail-thing on this list. You are a valuable
participant who doesn't seem to need all debian users to be ~mutt
users to be the recipients of you insights.

In the end, it's their/my loss.

>
> --
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>
>
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Re: List Ettiquette

[Neal Hogan]

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2009-08-29 22:31, Neal Hogan wrote:
>>
>> 
>> 
>> get over the email format!
>
> I know.  Lost that war a long time ago...
>
>> gmail provides a nice gui-riffic format that many feel comfortable
>> using. I don't get where this complaining about client usage is going.
>> If you a want  more "pure" OS, then . . . u . . . go somewhere
>> else.
>>
>> Ron (et al) . . .  you seem to have no problem responding to the
>> majority of posts to this list. Is it really a matter of principle? We
>> understand that you "hate" gmail, but when you respond to this post
>> you will be admitting that it has no real affect on the overall debain
>> project.
>>
>> 
>> 
>
> Huh?

Just closing the gmail message (i.e., failed joke). I guess it should
have been past  tense.

>
>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Ron Johnson
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2009-08-29 21:21, Celejar wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:51:04 -0700
>>>> "Kevin Ross"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> If this is official Debian policy, then why don't they set the Reply-To
>>>>> header to be the list?  As it is now, every time I reply, I have to
>>>>> manually
>>>>> edit the addressee list.  Hitting Reply only goes to the original
>>>>> poster.
>>>>> Reply All goes to the poster and the list.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.metasystema.net/essays/reply-to.html
>>>>
>>>> I know that there's another side to the debate.
>>>
>>> 
>>>   Since Reply-To munging adds additional functionality, it
>>>   actually increases freedom of choice. Not only can you now
>>>   reply only to the list, you still have the option to reply
>>>   to the original author, or to all recipients, easily and
>>>   conveniently.
>>> 
>>>
>>> Except... that's not true.  On the lists I'm subscribed to which do
>>> reply-to
>>> munging, both  and  only reply to the list address.
>
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>
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Re: List Ettiquette

[Neal Hogan]

get over the email format!

gmail provides a nice gui-riffic format that many feel comfortable
using. I don't get where this complaining about client usage is going.
If you a want  more "pure" OS, then . . . u . . . go somewhere
else.

Ron (et al) . . .  you seem to have no problem responding to the
majority of posts to this list. Is it really a matter of principle? We
understand that you "hate" gmail, but when you respond to this post
you will be admitting that it has no real affect on the overall debain
project.




On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2009-08-29 21:21, Celejar wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:51:04 -0700
>> "Kevin Ross"  wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> If this is official Debian policy, then why don't they set the Reply-To
>>> header to be the list?  As it is now, every time I reply, I have to
>>> manually
>>> edit the addressee list.  Hitting Reply only goes to the original poster.
>>> Reply All goes to the poster and the list.
>>
>> http://www.metasystema.net/essays/reply-to.html
>>
>> I know that there's another side to the debate.
>
> 
>    Since Reply-To munging adds additional functionality, it
>    actually increases freedom of choice. Not only can you now
>    reply only to the list, you still have the option to reply
>    to the original author, or to all recipients, easily and
>    conveniently.
> 
>
> Except... that's not true.  On the lists I'm subscribed to which do reply-to
> munging, both  and  only reply to the list address.
>
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Re: OT: TV Tuner

[Neal Hogan]

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Thomas H. George wrote:
> I recently emeraged from the dark ages and purchased a 23" LCD monitor.
> Now I am wondering about purchasing a TV tuner and connecting the cable
> box (Comcast) to the pc rather than replacing my 15 year old analog tv
> set.  Nothing larger than a 27" LCD TV will fit in the solid cherry tv
> cabinet, hardly large than the monitor.
>
> Any comments?

It's a funny coincidence that you ask because I'm in the process of
trying to something like that up . . . on my freeBSD machine, though,

But, while digging around I found mythtv.org and this, in particular,
may be of help to you:
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Operating_system#Debian_GNU.2FLinux

Good luck!

>
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Re: Installing Lenny

[Neal Hogan]

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Roman Gelfand wrote:
> I have vista 64 and fedora 10 installed  The bootloader is GRUB.  I am
> looking to install Lenny in place of fedora.  What would be the right
> way to approach it?

Back-up current stuff, d'load the .iso, burn it to cd and boot off of that disc.

Probably a lot like you did with fedora. Look to debian.org and check
back here if you have specific problems.

>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
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Re: Installing a Wireless Card

[Neal Hogan]

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 1:30 PM,  wrote:
> I would like some help in completing the installation with a wireless pcmia
> card.
> I just installed 502 from CDs on a Dell laptop. I did not have the Belkin
> wireless pcmcia card (HSM model no. F5D7011. Chipset BCM4306/BCM2050) in
> place during the installation.  Now I would like to get the wireless card
> working.  After reading the installation guide and several help pages, it
> seems to be getting somewhere but not there yet.  The session is below.  I
> have added some comments as .
>
> debian session:
> su -
> 
> /sbin/modprobe b43    
>  'there was no response
> /sbin/lspci -vnn|grep14e4    

Why did you type it? Look at the man page for 'lspci' to see what it's
for. I don't know what '14e4' is.

> 02:00.0 Ethernet controller ... gigabit ...
> 04:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Corp BCM4306 ... [14e4:4320]
> (rev 3)
> /sbin/iwconfig  
> lo    no wireless extensions.
> eth0    no wireless extensions.
> wmaster    no wireless extensions.
> wlan0    IEEE802.11 ESSID:""
> ...
> link quality:0    Signal level:0    Noise level:0
> Rx invalid nwid:0    Rx invalid crypt:0    Rx invalid frag:0
> Tx excessive retries:0    Invalid misc:0    Missed beacon:0
> /sbin/ifconfig wlan0    
> wlan0    Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 
>     BROADCAST MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
>     
> /sbin/ifconfig up  
> up: error fetching interface information: Device not found
> /sbin/ifconfig wlan0 up  
> SIOCSIFFLAGS: No such file or directory

man ifconfig

>
> I would appreciate all comments.
>

What is in your /etc/network/interfaces? Have you configed the card to
go get an IP address?

http://www.debian-administration.org/article/An_introduction_to_Debian_networking_setup

http://wiki.debian.org/Network



> Thank you,
> ray
>
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Re: installing a realtek 8139 lan card on 2.4.18

[Neal Hogan]

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Sandip Sandip wrote:
>
> 
> From: Neal Hogan 
> To: Sandip Sandip 
> Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Sent: Saturday, 15 August, 2009 6:44:26 PM
> Subject: Re: installing a realtek 8139 lan card on 2.4.18
>
>> What does you system think of the card (eg, what is the output of
>> lspci | grep Realtek of dmesg)? What's the output of ifconfig -a?
>>
>>
>> lspci shows 00:0b.0 Ethernet Controller: MYSON Technologies Inc: Unknown
>> device 0803 (dont know from where has this MYSON come in)
>
> Why do you think you have a realtek card?
>
> Because I have installed it in the slot myself! And before installing it, I
> had read it to be Realtek. Moreover, the person who gave it to me also
> confirms that it is a Realtek card.
>
>
>> What is in /etc/network/interfaces?
>>
>> /etc/network/interfaces shows:
>>
>> auto lo
>> iface lo inet loopback
>
> What did you do at install when it asked to config your network? lo is
> not an interface that will get you out in the virtual world. It's an
> internal if. It looks as though you just need to config your card.
>
>
> I have not done anything other than what I mentioned aboove - added lines to
> /etc/network/interfaces, etc. But removed these when they did not help.
>
>
>> There are a bunch of debian networking tutorials. Google lead me to
>> the following (among other things):
>>
>> http://www.debian-administration.org/article/An_introduction_to_Debian_networking_setup
>>
>> http://www.aboutdebian.com./
>>
>> http://wiki.debian.org/Network [+]
>>
>>
>> Sure - tried these and a couple of others. But most *assume* that the
>> network card is installed, recognized properly. In my case, I think that
>> is
>> the missing link - but I may be wrong.
>
> I'm pretty sure you are wrong. I don't know if your card is supported
> by debian (although there is talk about it on google), but you need to
> tell your card to go get an IP address . .. . in the /etc/
> network/interfaces. As of now, you just have the lo interface config'd
> If you're using a shnazzy wm/de, then you may have a nice gui-riffic
> program to modify that file (eg., kdm - look for something like
> network configuration).
>
> I suggest you look at those tutorials again and configure your card.
>
>
> I think the card is not 'installed'. Which place do I see to ensure that the
> machine is seeing that card at all? modprobe? modconf?
>
> I got 'SIOCSIFFLAGS: Resource temporarily unavailable' twice when I tried
> ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.1 up command as root.
>
> I think the computer does not recognize there is a card because there is no
> module! How do I install 8139 module?
>
> Also, I googled a bit and have already turned plug n play OS OFF in BIOS.
>
> Hope I am giving adequate information.

Well, you may be right about the machine not "seeing" the card.

I don't know what to say, but a quick search gave me the following
which talks about your card and having success with it.

http://www.kclug.org/pipermail/kclug/2004-January/020917.html

Good luck, hopefully someone more knowledgeable will reply to you
questions. Then we can both learn.

>
> Sandip
>
> 
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> Click here.


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Re: installing a realtek 8139 lan card on 2.4.18

[Neal Hogan]

> What else have you done? Did you just plug it in?
>
>
> I also read up the network howto and tried things like putting eth0 in
> /etc/network/interfaces, trying eth0 up, etc.
>
> No use - till now.
>
>
> What does you system think of the card (eg, what is the output of
> lspci | grep Realtek of dmesg)? What's the output of ifconfig -a?
>
>
> lspci shows 00:0b.0 Ethernet Controller: MYSON Technologies Inc: Unknown
> device 0803 (dont know from where has this MYSON come in)

Why do you think you have a realtek card?

>
> grep of dmesg of realtek/ real/ myson/ 0803/ 8139 shows nothing!
>
> ifconfig -a shows eth0 Link encap Ethernet HWAaddr 00:A1:B0:etc.
> BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU etc.
> Some RX TX data - all zeroes
> Interrupt:5 Base address:0xf
>
> *Only* ifconfig shows lo Link encap:Local Loopback
> inet addr:127.0.0..1 Mask 255.0.0.0
> UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric: 1
>
> modconf shows has option to install a module for realtek 8139, though there
> are other network cards
>
>
> How is your IP assigned? Do you have an ISP provided router or is this
> machine on the inside of a personal network?
>
>
> It is a cable internet connection. On my Win XP laptop, I need to connect
> the cable in my lan card port and I can access internet. The IP address, DNS
> Server address is auto-assigned - DHCP.
>
> What is in /etc/network/interfaces?
>
> /etc/network/interfaces shows:
>
> auto lo
> iface lo inet loopback

What did you do at install when it asked to config your network? lo is
not an interface that will get you out in the virtual world. It's an
internal if. It looks as though you just need to config your card.
>
>
>
> There are a bunch of debian networking tutorials. Google lead me to
> the following (among other things):
> http://www.debian-administration.org/article/An_introduction_to_Debian_networking_setup
>
> http://www.aboutdebian.com./
>
> http://wiki.debian.org/Network [+]
>
>
> Sure - tried these and a couple of others. But most *assume* that the
> network card is installed, recognized properly. In my case, I think that is
> the missing link - but I may be wrong.

I'm pretty sure you are wrong. I don't know if your card is supported
by debian (although there is talk about it on google), but you need to
tell your card to go get an IP address . . . in the /etc/
network/interfaces. As of now, you just have the lo interface config'd
If you're using a shnazzy wm/de, then you may have a nice gui-riffic
program to modify that file (eg., kdm - look for something like
network configuration).

I suggest you look at those tutorials again and configure your card.

>
>
> Hope I am able to resolve it!
>
> Sandip
>
> 
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Re: installing a realtek 8139 lan card on 2.4.18

[Neal Hogan]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Sandip Sandip wrote:
> I am trying to install a realtek 8139 lan card on an old debian machine -
> 2.4.18-bf2.4
>
> The card is properly installed - as in when I connect the lan cable it the
> lights on the card start blinking.
>
> However, I am unable to access internet. Do I need to install drivers and
> how do I do that?

What else have you done? Did you just plug it in?

What does you system think of the card (eg, what is the output of
lspci | grep Realtek of dmesg)? What's the output of ifconfig -a?

How is your IP assigned? Do you have an ISP provided router or is this
machine on the inside of a personal network?

What is in /etc/network/interfaces?

There are a bunch of debian networking tutorials. Google lead me to
the following (among other things):
http://www.debian-administration.org/article/An_introduction_to_Debian_networking_setup

http://www.aboutdebian.com./

http://wiki.debian.org/Network [+]

>
> Thanks,
>
> Sandip
>
> 
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Re: problem with installing wifi driver from source

[Neal Hogan]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 6:26 AM, a dehqan wrote:
> In The Name Of God The compassion merciful
>
> Good day every body , Don't have anybody any opinion ?

U . . .

Chicago pizza is the best.
Red is pretty.
The Phish show that I went to last night was awesome!
.
.
.
need more?

>
> Regards dehqan
>
>
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Re: Xfce (was Re: Musings on debian-user list) (now: waaay OT)

[Neal Hogan]

I referred to you as "it."

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Mon,03.Aug.09, 17:03:01, Neal Hogan wrote:
>>
>> ok ,ok . . . I'll just be gender neutral from now on. I apologize for
>> offending anyone. I wasn't referring to Mr. Po . . . I mean . . .
>> Andrei as male under the stereotype that all computer nerds are guys.
>> I figured (correctly, I might add) that he . . . I mean . . . it was a
>> guy.
>>
>> (now, I probably offended Andrei)
>
> Err, was there something offensive in there? :) Sorry for starting this
> discussion, I was just a bit curious about your quite formal addressing.
>
> Regards,
> Andrei
> --
> If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
> (Albert Einstein)
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
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>


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Re: Xfce (was Re: Musings on debian-user list) (now: waaay OT)

[Neal Hogan]

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Mon,03.Aug.09, 23:57:06, Aioanei Rares wrote:
>> >
>> >Depending on country and/or language there can be rules to
>> >determine if a name is female or male. For example in my language
>> >I don't know of any male name that ends in "a".
>
>> Zaharia Stancu ;)
>
> You got me! :)


ok ,ok . . . I'll just be gender neutral from now on. I apologize for
offending anyone. I wasn't referring to Mr. Po . . . I mean . . .
Andrei as male under the stereotype that all computer nerds are guys.
I figured (correctly, I might add) that he . . . I mean . . . it was a
guy.

(now, I probably offended Andrei)

>
> Regards,
> Andrei
> --
> If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
> (Albert Einstein)
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKd1z1AAoJEHNWs3jeoi3pe6gIAKyQ+FPed5Iq+N7mH25joQHH
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> =49ra
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
>


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Re: Xfce (was Re: Musings on debian-user list) (now: waaay OT)

[Neal Hogan]

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2009-08-03 11:59, Andrei Popescu wrote:
>>
>> On Mon,03.Aug.09, 06:05:46, Neal Hogan wrote:
>>  [...]
>>
>>> Mr. Popescu
>>
>> You're kidding, right? :)
>
> Unless Andrei is a female name, or you're a child...

if this is the case, then it was a typo . . .

>
> (Yet another reason I dislike gmail is that people no longer need addresses
> with ccTLD to know where they are from...)

How would this have helped identify gender?

>
> --
> Scooty Puff, Sr
> The Doom-Bringer
>
>
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Re: Xfce (was Re: Musings on debian-user list) (now: waaay OT)

[Neal Hogan]

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Mon,03.Aug.09, 06:05:46, Neal Hogan wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Mr. Popescu
>
> You're kidding, right? :)

nah . . . you deserve respect!

what do you want to be called?

>
> Regards,
> Andrei
> --
> If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
> (Albert Einstein)
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>
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> =q+06
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
>


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Re: A Laptop where all hardware is perfectly supported

[Neal Hogan]

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:52 AM, Scott Gifford wrote:
> "Todd A. Jacobs"  writes:
>
> [...]
>
>> Dell purportedly sells a netbook with Ubuntu on it, but I haven't tried
>> it myself.
>
> I have a Dell Inspiron E1505 that came with Ubuntu pre-installed, and
> it works quite well.  The only thing that has never worked right is
> the modem.

ag . . . it's not "perfect."

Good to know, though.

>
> Scott.
>
>
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Re: Xfce (was Re: Musings on debian-user list) (now: waaay OT)

[Neal Hogan]

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2009-08-03 06:05, Neal Hogan wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>> Mr. Popescu has kindly pointed out basic point-drag, drop, GUI-click
>> help, which should have been found and "played with" upon install.
>> There is definitely no reason to bother the WHOLE LIST with more XFCE
>> config stuff . . . ya?
>
> The Xfce-equivalent of the Windows registry doesn't really count as basic
> stuff to found and played with at install.

Whatever . . . still, not debian-user@ stuff.

http://www.xfce.org/community/lists
http://www.microsoft.com

>
>> Don't tell me to just not read and respond to things I don't
>> appreciate, for I appreciate most of what's on this list and would
>> like to learn and help . . . about DEBIAN stuff. Take this
>> conversation off-list, please.
>>
>> Oh ya . . . good morning :-)  
>
>
>
> --
> Scooty Puff, Sr
> The Doom-Bringer
>
>
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Re: Xfce (was Re: Musings on debian-user list) (now: waaay OT)

[Neal Hogan]

On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2009-08-02 12:21, Ron Johnson wrote:
>>
>> On 2009-08-02 05:59, Andrei Popescu wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun,02.Aug.09, 03:45:58, Ron Johnson wrote:
>
> My Xfce setup would be very familiar for a Windows 2k user ;)

 Can you send me (or throw onto a website) a screen-print?
>>>
>>> Sure
>>>
>>>
>>> http://yetanotherpersonal.blogspot.com/2009/08/screenshot-with-my-desktop.html
>>
>> Guess I'll have a try...
>
> OK, running Xfce, but there's an important problem, and a minor problem.
>
> http://members.cox.net/ron.l.johnson/xfce_screenshot.png
>
> As you can see from the above screen shot, certain fonts (like the
> ones in the Iceweasel Folders and Subjects lists) are "correct", according
> to my tastes.  Menu->Settings->Appearance let me set them to the font/size
> which I prefer.  Other fonts, like in the Title Bar and in the Iceweasel
> composition window (not just an Iceweasel issue: other apps have the same
> problem) are just way too tiny for comfortable reading.
>
> The minor problem is the color of the (Crux) window theme:purple. GNOME let
> me change that to dark blue.
>
> Any thoughts?

Are you serious? Not only did you want some help changing WM/DE, which
you received, now you want help with basic config?! This thread has
gone on wy too long. Our inboxes should not be populated by folks
trading their window dressings and how they were hung (especially on a
highly supported/documented bit-o-software like XFCE).

Mr. Popescu has kindly pointed out basic point-drag, drop, GUI-click
help, which should have been found and "played with" upon install.
There is definitely no reason to bother the WHOLE LIST with more XFCE
config stuff . . . ya?

Don't tell me to just not read and respond to things I don't
appreciate, for I appreciate most of what's on this list and would
like to learn and help . . . about DEBIAN stuff. Take this
conversation off-list, please.

Oh ya . . . good morning :-)  

>
> --
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> The Doom-Bringer
>
>
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Re: A Laptop where all hardware is perfectly supported

[Neal Hogan]

On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 8:34 PM, fred basset wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'll soon be able to spec. a new laptop for my new job.  Can anyone
> recommend any systems that can run the latest Debian
> and support all the hardware out of the box?  I prefer IBM and Dell
> laptops myself.
> It would be great to hear from anyone who's got a perfectly working machine.

I suspect folks will want to know more about what you mean by
"perfect." I mean, "support all the hardware" is perhaps too much. If
you're gonna be using just wifi, why care about the wired? If your job
doesn't require gaming, then you may wanna qualify your graphical
requirements. Etc.

Also, "latest Debian?" Stable?

-Neal

>
> Thanks,
> Fred
>
>
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Re: Installing via NFS - I think?

[Neal Hogan]

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 2:37 PM, AG wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I'm happy to follow up with the relevant reading, but I want some help in
> defining the question so that I know what it is that I am looking at:
>
> I have an old laptop that runs Slackware 10.1 and its CD-R is kaput, and
> Slackware 10.1 was not, at the time that I ran it, configured for USBs.  I
> can access the laptop via fish.
>
> I want to install Debian on the laptop but it looks like the only way into
> that machine is via an eth0, but how would I do that?  Do I load Debian via
> fish (or something more appropriate) and then boot up into it?
>
> Anyway, if someone can point me in the direction of docs that concern what I
> am looking for, that would be great.

http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst

yes?

>
> Thanks
>
> AG
>
>
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Re: Musings on debian-user list

[Neal Hogan]

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 12:04 AM, Girish Kulkarni wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Neal Hogan wrote:
>>
>> ... I think Mark has hit the proverbial nail-on-the-head ...
>
> Yes, with a top-posted HTML message, sent using Gmail.  :-)

okay . . . maybe he bent the nail a bit. At least it was on the head.

>
> --
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>
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Re: Musings on debian-user list

[Neal Hogan]

On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:54 AM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2009-07-29 00:20, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 28 2009, Ron Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> On 2009-07-28 13:09, Mark wrote:
>>> [snip]

 When I feel adventurous one weekend I'll try a Debian install without
 the
 desktop environment.
>>>
>>> But what will you *do* with it?  Mutt will frustrate you to no end,
>>> and the intarweb has become too graphics-oriented to make lynx/elinks
>>> widely useful.
>>
>>        Why are you equating a desktop environment with a GUI? I don't
>>  use a DE -- no gnome, KDE, gdm, kdm, wdm, xfce, or what have you. I use
>>  something far more flexible and and configurable than those
>>  underpowered environments;and I certainly am not doing without a
>>  graphical env.
>
> You're right.  GNOME & KDE have been dominant so long that I forgot about
> older WMs.
>
> Is there a way in fvwm to have a panel/dock with applets (weather, volume,
> date/time and "window list" are really useful to me) and have look like
> Windows 2000 (aka Crux theme and borders, and GNOME-like icons)?
>
> GNOME really is too bulky and pretty dumbed-down, but they've done IMNSHO a
> good job of making an easily-configured panel and a "smooth" system that
> lets me customize it enough so that what I need is there, in colors and icon
> styles that are "obvious but not jarring".  If that makes any sense.
>
> And, of course, GTK-based apps integrate very well.
>

In an attempt to continue with the direction that this thread is now
on and bring it back to where it started, I politely suggest that you
RTFM and offer you this link http://xwinman.org/

;-)

> --
> Scooty Puff, Sr
> The Doom-Bringer
>
>
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Re: Musings on debian-user list

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Mark wrote:
> Interesting thread.  From a Debian/Linux and Debian email list newbie's
> perspective: I spent several months researching Debian (actually tried
> openSUSE before Debian), printing/reading manuals, wiki's, doing multiple
> installations trying different options and configurations, before ever
> signing up on this list.  The resources available for Debian are so good and
> plentiful a complete novice like myself got Debian installed on a desktop
> and laptop at home, and use the desktop as a wireless music server running
> Squeezecenter (formerly Slim Server).  The way I view it is - I don't post
> until I've exhausted trying to figure something out on my own.  However
> since I'm a newbie sometimes this doesn't take too long.  :)  My experience
> has been, when I post I try to share what I've done and if I have an idea,
> post it and look for edits/comments if I'm on the right track.  Using this
> approach on this list has resulted in very helpful responses and quick
> solutions.
>
> The way I see Debian/Linux and this list is: no one owes me any of their
> time, so whoever helps is an added bonus.  I'm not entitled to help from
> anyone, but very much appreciate it when I get it.  I'm just thankful to
> have Debian/Linux available to use, so I don't mind putting in the time to
> try and figure things out on my own.  Heck, that's half the fun sometimes!

BINGO!

I agree with the others who commented that the OP has a lot to do with
the tone of the thread and I think Mark has hit the proverbial
nail-on-the-head when he makes the point that when asking for help,
one should indicate how they tried to help themselves, which also
helps the "helpers" focus their help.


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Re: Musings on debian-user list

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 6:25 AM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> * Neal Hogan  [2009 Jul 28 06:01 -0500]:
>
>> I appreciate the OP's sentiment that the lack of flaming is good . . .
>> but, a good (hearted) laugh at another's expense is . . . fun . . .
>> and seems to be discourged/avoided here. Why? What's the problem? A
>> thick skin is an attribute, not a detrimment.
>
> We guys were having a bit o' fun at our own expense in the "grep
> boobies" thread until someone became upset over it.

WHO CARES?!

>
> Debian is serious business!!

I agree, but . . .

>
> - Nate >>
>
> --
>
> "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
> possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
>
> Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html
>
>
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Re: Musings on debian-user list

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 6:19 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Tuesday 28 July 2009 11:59:00 Neal Hogan wrote:
>> Why? What's the problem? A
>> thick skin is an attribute, not a detrimment.
>
> Maybe.  But it is still not really reasonable to poke fun at someone and then
> if that person is upset, say it is his/her fault for being touchy.  Most
> people are not thick skinned.  Many are thin skinned.  A little human
> kindness goes a long way.  (And, no: I am not a paragon of kindness and
> tolerance.  But I do think that I should apsire to be.)

Sure . . . fyi . . . I didn't intend to open the "moral basket," but
as many have rightfully pointed out, this is not a business. We, the
Debian/openSource community are not in business. We're working with a
system that suits us and are willing to help those who help
themselves. If you're looking for a handout/handhold  . . . well . . .
it seems to me that many on this list are willing to do that, (again)
despite the obvious repetition of the topic. No biggy . . . again,
I've not been here that long, but since the topic was (in some sense)
raised, I bother to bother. Should I be nice, in the sense that I make
sure to be polite when I suggest that someone read the docs (that have
been painstakingly (sp?) put together)?

>
> Lisi
>
>
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Re: Musings on debian-user list

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 3:00 AM, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Mon,27.Jul.09, 16:53:54, Tim Beauregard wrote:
>> I recently re-subscribed having been off for about four years.  The
>> changes I have noticed are:
>>
>> 1. Much less traffic.  I previously got 250+ posts per day.  Now 50-100.
>>  Could this be due to the development of ubuntu?
>
> If you look at the traffic charts you will notice a big decrease after
> some big OT flamewars (anyone remember sponge-bob?). Unfortunately the
> list also lost some good posters then...
>
>> 3. Less digression, and if it occurs, it dies out in a day or two.
>> Previously it could go on for weeks, particularly if a political agenda
>> develops.
>
> See above.
>
>> 5. Less newbie posts.  Ubuntu?
>> 6. Less configuration questions.  Could this be due to improvement of
>> the kernel and included libraries?
>
> In the 3+ years I've been with Debian I've seen *great* improvements in
> user-friendliness.

I wonder what "user-friendliness" means, sometimes. I'm not claiming
that my posts have always been on-topic/appropriate, but it seems to
me that "friendlieness" has meant (since I've been arround ( . . . not
that long)), treat every question as  . . . umm . .  good . . .
despite the fact that many questions have been asked before and
discussed, at length (eg, broadcom wifi, install, "how to set up a
wireless network," etc).

In the end, I wonder about this list's tolerance for sarcasm and
"the-basic-pointing-out-of-the-obviousness" ( . . . walked into it,
bring it on . . .). I appreciate other list's sense of humor (can you
guess which one?).

I appreciate the OP's sentiment that the lack of flaming is good . . .
but, a good (hearted) laugh at another's expense is . . . fun . . .
and seems to be discourged/avoided here. Why? What's the problem? A
thick skin is an attribute, not a detrimment.

(my speling suks, sawri)


>
> Regards,
> Andrei
> --
> If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
> (Albert Einstein)
>
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Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......

[Neal Hogan]

> And thanks for reminding us of the essential role of gcc, glibc, and
> binutils.  I'm too new to GNU/linux to remember.. but would anything
> have been possible without them?

yes

>
> CJ
>
>
>
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