Re: Battery problem
On Tuesday 12 March 2013 10:00:06 am Andrea Neroni wrote: > > I was thinking of top too, but even if top shouldn't show something, it > > still could be, that CPU frequency scaling and energy saving for the > > graphics and HDD are different between the Win and Debian installs. > > Hi and thanks for replying. > Top seems clean, processes are normal. I was also thinking about the > graphic card but I have no idea how to check the power consumption of the > card. If there is a way to switch it off completely maybe this could give > me an idea. This card is an Optimus. I installed Bumblee and it's > difficult to say if it is working. The temperature of the laptop decreased > so I think the card should be off. But the optirun command doesn't work > for some reason. The final outcome is that I don't know if the card is off > and maybe this could be the source off the battery problem. Is there a way > to check the status of the discrete card? > > Andrea OK, but please run $ ps aux > ps-list.txt and send the contents of the "ps-list.txt" file. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201303130511.49525.m...@neidorff.com
Re: Battery problem
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:25:59AM +0100, Johannes Wiedersich wrote: > On 12/03/13 11:17, Darac Marjal wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 09:24:20AM +, Andrea Neroni wrote: > > Have a look at the output of "cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info". In > > particular, compare the values of "design capacity" and "last full > > capacity". If "last full capacity" is significantly lower than "design > > capacity", then the battery is dying. The jump you're seeing is due to > > the charge profile calibration being out of date in the battery (this > > might be updatable, but it won't alter your run time). > > This would not explain, why the same battery runs for 3 hours on windows. Or why Windoze thinks it is getting low and goes into suspension (mode?) -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130313072636.GD7765@tal
Re: Battery problem
On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:17:21 + Darac Marjal wrote: > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 09:24:20AM +, Andrea Neroni wrote: > >Hello everyone! > >I'm experiencing a wierd battery problem and I'd like to know if anyone > >have seen the same. > > > >When I turn on Debian the battery is charged. acpi tells me there are > >still 3 hours > >of charge and everything is fine. The battery is relatively new and the > >maximum capicity for > >acpi is the 94% of the total, so fine. > >After 2 minutes (really 2 minutes!!!) the charge goes from the previous > >level to 8% no matter > >what you are doing or how much charged was the battery before, and only > > 10 > >minutes of time are left. > > Have a look at the output of "cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info". In > particular, compare the values of "design capacity" and "last full > capacity". If "last full capacity" is significantly lower than "design > capacity", then the battery is dying. The jump you're seeing is due to > the charge profile calibration being out of date in the battery (this > might be updatable, but it won't alter your run time). Just FTR, on my system (Squeeze on a ThinkPad T61, using the tp_smapi module), that information is under /sys/devices/platform/smapi/BAT0/* Celejar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130312225257.151fe4dd.cele...@gmail.com
Re: Battery problem
> I was thinking of top too, but even if top shouldn't show something, it > still could be, that CPU frequency scaling and energy saving for the > graphics and HDD are different between the Win and Debian installs. Hi and thanks for replying. Top seems clean, processes are normal. I was also thinking about the graphic card but I have no idea how to check the power consumption of the card. If there is a way to switch it off completely maybe this could give me an idea. This card is an Optimus. I installed Bumblee and it's difficult to say if it is working. The temperature of the laptop decreased so I think the card should be off. But the optirun command doesn't work for some reason. The final outcome is that I don't know if the card is off and maybe this could be the source off the battery problem. Is there a way to check the status of the discrete card? Andrea
Re: Battery problem
>> Have a look at the output of "cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info". In >> particular, compare the values of "design capacity" and "last full >> capacity". If "last full capacity" is significantly lower than "design >> capacity", then the battery is dying. The jump you're seeing is due to >> the charge profile calibration being out of date in the battery (this >> might be updatable, but it won't alter your run time). > >This would not explain, why the same battery runs for 3 hours on windows. > >Johannes This is exactly the problem. The last full capacity reported is 94% 4900 mAh compared to the design capacity of 5200 mAh. This should be fine. Andrea -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/513f02b7.2070...@aktendiener.de
Re: Battery problem
On Tue, 2013-03-12 at 09:24 -0400, m...@neidorff.com wrote: > > On 12/03/13 11:17, Darac Marjal wrote: > >> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 09:24:20AM +, Andrea Neroni wrote: > >> Have a look at the output of "cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info". In > >> particular, compare the values of "design capacity" and "last full > >> capacity". If "last full capacity" is significantly lower than "design > >> capacity", then the battery is dying. The jump you're seeing is due to > >> the charge profile calibration being out of date in the battery (this > >> might be updatable, but it won't alter your run time). > > > > This would not explain, why the same battery runs for 3 hours on windows. > > To start with, does the top command show any process running with a lot of > CPU time? I was thinking of top too, but even if top shouldn't show something, it still could be, that CPU frequency scaling and energy saving for the graphics and HDD are different between the Win and Debian installs. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1363096154.1445.19.camel@archlinux
Re: Battery problem
> On 12/03/13 11:17, Darac Marjal wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 09:24:20AM +, Andrea Neroni wrote: >> Have a look at the output of "cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info". In >> particular, compare the values of "design capacity" and "last full >> capacity". If "last full capacity" is significantly lower than "design >> capacity", then the battery is dying. The jump you're seeing is due to >> the charge profile calibration being out of date in the battery (this >> might be updatable, but it won't alter your run time). > > This would not explain, why the same battery runs for 3 hours on windows. To start with, does the top command show any process running with a lot of CPU time? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/011c92b18cb999f1c1356e6068994460.squir...@neidorff.com
Re: Battery problem
On 12/03/13 11:17, Darac Marjal wrote: > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 09:24:20AM +, Andrea Neroni wrote: > Have a look at the output of "cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info". In > particular, compare the values of "design capacity" and "last full > capacity". If "last full capacity" is significantly lower than "design > capacity", then the battery is dying. The jump you're seeing is due to > the charge profile calibration being out of date in the battery (this > might be updatable, but it won't alter your run time). This would not explain, why the same battery runs for 3 hours on windows. Johannes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/513f02b7.2070...@aktendiener.de
Re: Battery problem
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 09:24:20AM +, Andrea Neroni wrote: >Hello everyone! >I'm experiencing a wierd battery problem and I'd like to know if anyone >have seen the same. > >When I turn on Debian the battery is charged. acpi tells me there are >still 3 hours >of charge and everything is fine. The battery is relatively new and the >maximum capicity for >acpi is the 94% of the total, so fine. >After 2 minutes (really 2 minutes!!!) the charge goes from the previous >level to 8% no matter >what you are doing or how much charged was the battery before, and only 10 >minutes of time are left. Have a look at the output of "cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info". In particular, compare the values of "design capacity" and "last full capacity". If "last full capacity" is significantly lower than "design capacity", then the battery is dying. The jump you're seeing is due to the charge profile calibration being out of date in the battery (this might be updatable, but it won't alter your run time). signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Battery problem
Hello everyone! I'm experiencing a wierd battery problem and I'd like to know if anyone have seen the same. When I turn on Debian the battery is charged. acpi tells me there are still 3 hours of charge and everything is fine. The battery is relatively new and the maximum capicity for acpi is the 94% of the total, so fine. After 2 minutes (really 2 minutes!!!) the charge goes from the previous level to 8% no matter what you are doing or how much charged was the battery before, and only 10 minutes of time are left. My laptop is a dual boot with Win. If I reboot, Win confirms that the battery is extremely low and quickly goes to suspension. The funny part of all of it is that if I recharge the battery and I use only Win, the battery behaves as expected and I can work really for 3 hours. I seems in some way that something in Linux is sucking all the charge of the battery very very quickly. Some of you experienced something like this? Technical notes: I'm using Debian testing, last kernel (3.2.0-4 if I remember correctly), nvidia graphic card with nouveau and bumblee. The laptop is a Samsung RC530. Thanks everybody! Andrea
Re: Laptop Battery problem
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 22:08:28 +0100, Lorenzo wrote in message <4f42b64c.3010...@gmail.com>: > On 18/02/2012 22:36, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > I've read about the freezer thing wonder if it works. > ..every time this far, but dragging along a freezer to boot up a laptop, sort of defeats the laptop concept... ;oD ..next boot failure means soldering doom to the freezer cause... if that's meaningful enough for you guys. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120221214504.34903...@nb6.lan
Re: Laptop Battery problem
On 18/02/2012 22:36, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 13:51:27 +0100, Lorenzo wrote in message <4f3e4d4f.6090...@gmail.com>: Hi Darac, Thanks for the very insightful information... On 17/02/12 13:38, Darac Marjal wrote: On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 01:10:31PM +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: I am running XFCE 4.8 on debian wheezy on my laptop and since about two weeks the xfce Power Manager gets the battery charge percentage wrong, the most critical problem being that the machine shuts off without any previous warning. I wonder where the problem might be. Indeed this battery is getting old (3 years now) and less efficient, but I can't explain why suddenly Xfce Power Manager is getting it so wrong given that it was working like a charm (even giving a pretty accurate esteem of remaining time). I imagine Power Manager is relying on some lower level (software, kernel?)features, maybe in the kernel? I believe this is a common failing with batteries. I might be wrong here, but as they age, the discharge profile of a battery changes such that the monitoring hardware tends to over-estimate the remaining capacity. This typically manifests as normal discharging down to, say, 10 or 15%, followed by a sudden step to 0%. Now, most power profiles are set up to warn of low battery at, say 10% and treat 5% as critical. If the battery capacity suddenly drops past the warning level into the critical level, the system has no choice but to take emergency measures. As for where this information comes from: XFCE Power Manager will query the ACPI daemon which is running in the background. That will talk to the kernel's ACPI subsystem will, in turn, will talk to the ACPI implementation in the BIOS. That, ultimately, is what decides what the battery level is. Only the BIOS really knows what the battery charge currently is, what a 'full charge' is and what 'zero charge' is. It MAY be possible to re-teach the BIOS about the current charge profile of the battery, but it's generally just easier to increase the warning level in Power Manager. HP advices a procedure (Windows only) to 'recalibrate' the battery ..what kinda battery, LiPo, NiCd, NiMH? Li-ion They have slightly different discharge profiles, but "dive steeper" as they age. If you can get a new replacement or used spare battery from the vendor or Ebay, you can then gut the worst battery and fit new cells into the gutted battery housing. ..another way to extend laptop battery time, is stuff a laptop size box full of lipo cells to match the charge plug voltage, and drain the lipo box first, then have the laptop start draining its battery. I've read about the freezer thing wonder if it works. ... [2] I guess this could be reporduced in similar fashion. In particular Option two could probably simply be boot into grub ..there's a game to play from grub, space invaders? Can it be hacked to draw a discharge diagram in the background, or write raw voltage, amperage etc numbers and timestamps to a file, e.g. /boot/grub/batterydischargeprofile , ideally per cell? :) ..batteries usually fails because _one_ cell fails, this can be spotted early with load tests, the bad cell's voltage will drop lower than the good ones. Common lipo chargers can also be used to diagnose and prevent this this failure mode. and let it stay there until it completely discharges ..this is a somewhat destructive test method, but it works on NiCd and was recommended to "wipe the memory effect", 50% discharges has a way of shaping the discharge curve so it drops sharply beyond the 50% or whatever you discharged it to, which has caused quite a few RC model aircraft crashes. Only using it for boring spreadsheets ;) Lorenzo. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4f42b64c.3010...@gmail.com
Re: Laptop Battery problem
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 13:51:27 +0100, Lorenzo wrote in message <4f3e4d4f.6090...@gmail.com>: > Hi Darac, > > Thanks for the very insightful information... > > On 17/02/12 13:38, Darac Marjal wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 01:10:31PM +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: > >> I am running XFCE 4.8 on debian wheezy on my laptop and since about > >> two weeks the xfce Power Manager gets the battery charge percentage > >> wrong, the most critical problem being that the machine shuts off > >> without any previous warning. > >> > >> I wonder where the problem might be. > >> > >> Indeed this battery is getting old (3 years now) and less > >> efficient, but I can't explain why suddenly Xfce Power Manager is > >> getting it so wrong given that it was working like a charm (even > >> giving a pretty accurate esteem of remaining time). I imagine Power > >> Manager is relying on some lower level (software, kernel?)features, > >> maybe in the kernel? > > I believe this is a common failing with batteries. I might be wrong > > here, but as they age, the discharge profile of a battery changes > > such that the monitoring hardware tends to over-estimate the > > remaining capacity. This typically manifests as normal discharging > > down to, say, 10 or 15%, followed by a sudden step to 0%. > > > > Now, most power profiles are set up to warn of low battery at, say > > 10% and treat 5% as critical. If the battery capacity suddenly > > drops past the warning level into the critical level, the system > > has no choice but to take emergency measures. > > > > As for where this information comes from: XFCE Power Manager will > > query the ACPI daemon which is running in the background. That will > > talk to the kernel's ACPI subsystem will, in turn, will talk to the > > ACPI implementation in the BIOS. That, ultimately, is what decides > > what the battery level is. Only the BIOS really knows what the > > battery charge currently is, what a 'full charge' is and what 'zero > > charge' is. It MAY be possible to re-teach the BIOS about the > > current charge profile of the battery, but it's generally just > > easier to increase the warning level in Power Manager. > HP advices a procedure (Windows only) to 'recalibrate' the battery ..what kinda battery, LiPo, NiCd, NiMH? They have slightly different discharge profiles, but "dive steeper" as they age. If you can get a new replacement or used spare battery from the vendor or Ebay, you can then gut the worst battery and fit new cells into the gutted battery housing. ..another way to extend laptop battery time, is stuff a laptop size box full of lipo cells to match the charge plug voltage, and drain the lipo box first, then have the laptop start draining its battery. ..lipo cells are lighter, popular with RC model pilots because they recharge quickly, say 15 minutes, and can be drained safely down to 3V per cell, nominal voltage is 3.7V per cell, and most will charge up 4.1V, some even up to 4.3V per cell, and they require lipo chargers which can be bought cheaply in model hobby shops, even online. ..beware that LiPo is slightly different from "Lithium Ion", 14.4V / 4cells = 3.6V, so where the lipo box _may_ need some more circuitry to tell the laptop the tall wallwart story, an old gutted NiCd battery case with new lipo cells _will_ need cheat circuitry to tell the laptop stories like below: *-battery description: Lithium Ion Battery product: CP279034 vendor: FUJITSU physical id: 1 serial: 01 slot: Internal Battery capacity: 74880mWh configuration: voltage=14.4V > [2] I guess this could be reporduced in similar fashion. In > particular Option two could probably simply be boot into grub ..there's a game to play from grub, space invaders? Can it be hacked to draw a discharge diagram in the background, or write raw voltage, amperage etc numbers and timestamps to a file, e.g. /boot/grub/batterydischargeprofile , ideally per cell? ..batteries usually fails because _one_ cell fails, this can be spotted early with load tests, the bad cell's voltage will drop lower than the good ones. Common lipo chargers can also be used to diagnose and prevent this this failure mode. > and let > it stay there until it completely discharges ..this is a somewhat destructive test method, but it works on NiCd and was recommended to "wipe the memory effect", 50% discharges has a way of shaping the discharge curve so it drops sharply beyond the 50% or whatever you discharged it to, which has caused quite a few RC model aircraft crashes. > (so no power-management > stuff goes on) and see how it goes. > > I'll have to look deeper into acpi which I guess could come in handy > to try and gather some better information as soon as I'm back at the > laptop and maybe report some results here. > > Thanks for now, > Lorenzo. > > [1] > http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=us&lc=en&docname=c00035862 > > -- ..med vennlig hil
Re: Laptop Battery problem
Hi Darac, Thanks for the very insightful information... On 17/02/12 13:38, Darac Marjal wrote: On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 01:10:31PM +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: I am running XFCE 4.8 on debian wheezy on my laptop and since about two weeks the xfce Power Manager gets the battery charge percentage wrong, the most critical problem being that the machine shuts off without any previous warning. I wonder where the problem might be. Indeed this battery is getting old (3 years now) and less efficient, but I can't explain why suddenly Xfce Power Manager is getting it so wrong given that it was working like a charm (even giving a pretty accurate esteem of remaining time). I imagine Power Manager is relying on some lower level (software, kernel?)features, maybe in the kernel? I believe this is a common failing with batteries. I might be wrong here, but as they age, the discharge profile of a battery changes such that the monitoring hardware tends to over-estimate the remaining capacity. This typically manifests as normal discharging down to, say, 10 or 15%, followed by a sudden step to 0%. Now, most power profiles are set up to warn of low battery at, say 10% and treat 5% as critical. If the battery capacity suddenly drops past the warning level into the critical level, the system has no choice but to take emergency measures. As for where this information comes from: XFCE Power Manager will query the ACPI daemon which is running in the background. That will talk to the kernel's ACPI subsystem will, in turn, will talk to the ACPI implementation in the BIOS. That, ultimately, is what decides what the battery level is. Only the BIOS really knows what the battery charge currently is, what a 'full charge' is and what 'zero charge' is. It MAY be possible to re-teach the BIOS about the current charge profile of the battery, but it's generally just easier to increase the warning level in Power Manager. HP advices a procedure (Windows only) to 'recalibrate' the battery [2] I guess this could be reporduced in similar fashion. In particular Option two could probably simply be boot into grub and let it stay there until it completely discharges (so no power-management stuff goes on) and see how it goes. I'll have to look deeper into acpi which I guess could come in handy to try and gather some better information as soon as I'm back at the laptop and maybe report some results here. Thanks for now, Lorenzo. [1] http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=us&lc=en&docname=c00035862 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4f3e4d4f.6090...@gmail.com
Re: Laptop Battery problem
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 01:10:31PM +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: > I am running XFCE 4.8 on debian wheezy on my laptop and since about > two weeks the xfce Power Manager gets the battery charge percentage > wrong, the most critical problem being that the machine shuts off > without any previous warning. > > I wonder where the problem might be. > > Indeed this battery is getting old (3 years now) and less > efficient, but I can't explain why suddenly Xfce Power Manager is > getting it so wrong given that it was working like a charm (even > giving a pretty accurate esteem of remaining time). I imagine Power > Manager is relying on some lower level (software, kernel?)features, > maybe in the kernel? I believe this is a common failing with batteries. I might be wrong here, but as they age, the discharge profile of a battery changes such that the monitoring hardware tends to over-estimate the remaining capacity. This typically manifests as normal discharging down to, say, 10 or 15%, followed by a sudden step to 0%. Now, most power profiles are set up to warn of low battery at, say 10% and treat 5% as critical. If the battery capacity suddenly drops past the warning level into the critical level, the system has no choice but to take emergency measures. As for where this information comes from: XFCE Power Manager will query the ACPI daemon which is running in the background. That will talk to the kernel's ACPI subsystem will, in turn, will talk to the ACPI implementation in the BIOS. That, ultimately, is what decides what the battery level is. Only the BIOS really knows what the battery charge currently is, what a 'full charge' is and what 'zero charge' is. It MAY be possible to re-teach the BIOS about the current charge profile of the battery, but it's generally just easier to increase the warning level in Power Manager. -- Darac Marjal signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Laptop Battery problem
I am running XFCE 4.8 on debian wheezy on my laptop and since about two weeks the xfce Power Manager gets the battery charge percentage wrong, the most critical problem being that the machine shuts off without any previous warning. I wonder where the problem might be. Indeed this battery is getting old (3 years now) and less efficient, but I can't explain why suddenly Xfce Power Manager is getting it so wrong given that it was working like a charm (even giving a pretty accurate esteem of remaining time). I imagine Power Manager is relying on some lower level (software, kernel?)features, maybe in the kernel? Of course I imagine this could also be a hardware problem, as I guess there must be some electronics communicating the battery charge? I am a little confused by the many, somewhat mixed and not-so-clear sources on the net addressing 'battery calibration' in various ways. Let alone 'battery revitalising' by putting it in the fridge etc. The current focus would be about getting an - at least reliable - estimate, and what's more warning, about battery power left avoiding the machine to abruptly shut off. Any suggestion etc. appreciated. Lorenzo. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4f3e43b7.8090...@gmail.com
