Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Erik Christiansen]

On 18.07.17 11:06, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> On the other hand, if you just want to _install_ Debian rather than to
> run it as "live" system, then you should for now use one of the
> installation ISOs.
> E.g. the small one which is just enough to fetch more packages from the
> internet:
> 
>   
> https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/debian-9.0.0-i386-netinst.iso
> 
> or the DVD sized one with a more complete system:
> 
>   
> https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-dvd/debian-9.0.0-i386-DVD-1.iso
> 
> Installation attempts from live-cd ISOs caused lots of complaints.
> (It is unclear how many attempts succeeded.)

Many thanks. The second install iso above is much better behaved, but
possibly a little overeager. When it was paused at "Install base
system", I reached over to the wireless keyboard to press , and
inadvertently pressed the space bar while picking it up. That was
enough to trigger the installation. No harm done in this instance, but
less safe prior to disk formatting. (Users - who'd have 'em. Better off
without. ;)

It was with delight that I found I could select LXDE, rather than Gnome
or KDE.

Erik
(Who now has debian on all hosts except one old one with ubuntu.)

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Dejan Jocic]

On 18-07-17, Jason Wittlin-Cohen wrote:
> That's not exactly what I'm seeing.  I began seeding the Debian 9.0
> installer image on 6/17 and the Live image on 6/20, when the 9.0.1 released.
> 
> debian-9.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso  171.36 GB
> debian-live-9.0.1-amd64-gnome.iso 157.90 GB
> debian-live-9.0.1-amd64-cinnamon.iso  107.85 GB
> debian-9.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso  3.50 GB
> 
> The net install doesn't really count since the Debian site has a direct
> link to download it, and people are unlikely to bother with such a small
> download over Bittorrent.
> 
> Note:  Dejan, sorry for the direct email. Meant to email the list.
> 

No worries, happens. As for those numbers you've got, you do realise
that just those 2 live images you seed are more popular than regular
install iso? And that there are 4 more DE in torrent live images that
are about as popular as Cinammon is? Now, calculate how many pissed
people that was, because those live images failed to install? And there
was some trashing of Debian in some reviews because of those live
images. Not that I care much about those reviews personally, I know why
I use Debian and why it is my favorite OS. But on the long run, more
happy users equals better Debian for us all.

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Jason Wittlin-Cohen]

That's not exactly what I'm seeing.  I began seeding the Debian 9.0
installer image on 6/17 and the Live image on 6/20, when the 9.0.1 released.

debian-9.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso  171.36 GB
debian-live-9.0.1-amd64-gnome.iso 157.90 GB
debian-live-9.0.1-amd64-cinnamon.iso  107.85 GB
debian-9.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso  3.50 GB

The net install doesn't really count since the Debian site has a direct
link to download it, and people are unlikely to bother with such a small
download over Bittorrent.

Note:  Dejan, sorry for the direct email. Meant to email the list.

On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Jason Wittlin-Cohen <
jwittlinco...@gmail.com> wrote:

> That's not exactly what I'm seeing.  I began seeding the Debian 9.0
> installer image on 6/17 and the Live image on 6/20, when the 9.0.1 released.
>
> debian-9.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso  171.36 GB
> debian-9.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso  157.90 GB
> debian-live-9.0.1-amd64-cinnamon.iso  107.85 GB
> debian-9.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso  3.50 GB
>
> The net install doesn't really count since the Debian site has a direct
> link to download it, and people are unlikely to bother with such a small
> download over Bittorrent.
>
> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Dejan Jocic  wrote:
>
>> On 18-07-17, Jason Wittlin-Cohen wrote:
>> > Many people have had issues installing with the Live installer on this
>> > mailing list.  The question is why Debian even offers the option if
>> there
>> > is no interest in testing it to make it work.  The initial live
>> installer
>> > images (9.0, before 9.0.1) were completely broken and could not even
>> begin
>> > the install[1].  Clearly, this resulted from a complete lack of testing
>> as
>> > it would have been easily caught given that it is a deterministic error
>> > that to applied to ALL the live ISOs.  I think it's unfair to blame
>> users
>> > for using the Live media as an installer.  Either test the live images
>> to
>> > make sure it can be used for installation on a wide variety of
>> hardware, or
>> > don't provide the option at all.  It appears that the debian-devel
>> mailing
>> > list HAS called for more testing due to this situation with the explicit
>> > threat that live images will cease to be produced if nobody wants to
>> test
>> > them [2].  With that said, users should always use the regular d-i
>> > installer images to do an actual install.  The live images are useful
>> for
>> > testing to see if your hardware is supported and also for recovery.
>> >
>> > Takeaway:  If you want to install Debian, either use the network
>> installer
>> > (small installation image) or use one of the DVD images (large
>> installation
>> > images), NOT the live disks.  You can download either here:
>> > https://www.debian.org/distrib/.  Only use the Live ISOs to test out
>> Debian
>> > and to ensure hardware support.  If you have a need for non-free
>> firmware
>> > to complete the install (e.g. non-free network firmware for wifi
>> devices),
>> > use the images here
>> > https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-
>> including-firmware/9.0.0+nonfree/amd64/bt-dvd/
>> > .
>> >
>> > [1]https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/9.0.1-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/
>> > [2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2017/06/msg00335.html
>> >
>>
>> Trouble is that live images are, judging by my torrents, most popular
>> media of choice. Just debian-live-9.0.1-amd64-gnome.iso was uploaded for
>> 23 GB, while debian-9.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso is on 14.68 GB and
>> debian-9.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso is on 463 MB. So, something in big red
>> letters should be there on Debian site as a warning for people not to
>> download live for install. At least till we get 9.0.2 live iso.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Erik Christiansen wrote:
> Would it be impertinent to enquire why the malfunctioning install option
> is not disabled, when it only serves to tarnish the reputation of debian?

I understand that the future of Debian live ISOs depends on the
contribution by developers and users. See
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/2017/06/msg00059.html
  "IMPORTANT: Do live Debian images have a future?"
by its not-so-voluntary maintainer.


One should possibly coordinate the optimism of
  https://www.debian.org/CD/live/
with the warnings on
  https://get.debian.org/images/release/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/#issues
This could possibly be enhanced by the warning that currently the
live USB stick wants to see a CD-ROM.

But first the problem would have to be reported to debian-live mailing
list or to the bug tracker for package "cdimage.debian.org" (i assume
from the bug reports on #issues).
Maybe it can be fixed instead of permanently blocking that installation
path.


> A lot of
> effort went into preventing the release of buggy software.

That's not so easy when the users begin testing only after release.

Now it's up to them to duely report problems, to help with reproducing
(a virtual machine way would probably make it easier for developers to
adopt the issue), and to test proposed remedies.


> Mind you, ubuntu 16.04 doesn't install on the Udoo X86 either, bombing
> at boot block installation.

One would have to report to Ubuntu and/or GRUB, depending on the symptoms
of failure. Especially if your mainboard is exotic and probably not in
reach of the developers.


Well, let's see whether the Debian installation ISOs bring you nearer
to your goal.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Fungi4All]

> From: wool...@eeg.ccf.org
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 12:14:52AM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote:
>> www.debian.org -> "CD/USB ISO images"
> That"s where your eyes go? That"s interesting.

? what are you, an optometrist?

> My eyes skip the banner with its embedded "download me" link (because
> it"s a friggin" BANNER,

 More useless and invalid information from debian to waste our time,
is this what you mean?

> and decades of web use have taught me to skip all banners),

And your decades somehow translate into common sense?

> and skip the small print sections, and drop me straight
> to the link that says "obtain a copy" .

intuition and decades of scanning through useless information has
lead you to where you want to be?

> On the second page, there"s "Download an installation image" and
> "Try Debian live before installing".

Are you saying he did what it is told in the second page of your
intutive search? For how long has there been an icon on that live
desktop that says Install Debian? Or should I say for how long of
this icon being false information has it stood still?
Actually the icon does start the installer, it is about 40' later one
discovers it is incapable of installing the system.

> Sadly, the instructions under
> the "Try Debian live" link claim that the live image"s installer will
> work.

Sadly, don't take any instruction on the web page seriously. It is
all a beta web-page for when things will eventually work.

> We all know that it doesn"t, but the instructions continue to
> claim that it does.

"We" excludes which group of people, the poor guy who wasted
a few hours of his lige following instructions or is it the rest of the
humanity apart from the good'ol'boys at the debian-user-gang?

>> , then choose the only possibly
>> viable alternative to CD/DVD, since there"s no CD/DVD on the new host.
> You also skipped the "Network install" link right above your "CD/USB
> ISO images" link. I wonder why.

Please let "us" know what exactly network install mean, by refering us
to a specific explanation in the debian.org maze. Most "common" humans
would conclude that if you are a network manager and want to do
remote installs on machines this is what you use. If you are not the
network administrator use something "else".
But, we "all" know better, don't we gangsters. Debian is only good for
club menbers. Sorry guy, if you missed your sleep. You are not a member
of the group.

> On the page you went to, there are two yellow lightbulb boxes, one saying
> to use "Network Install" instead, and the second saying "all CD/DVD images
> can be used on a USB stick too".
> Somehow you skipped over those as well.

Only they obviously not all work on a USB stick.
Please don't listen to RedHat emploees trying to chase new users away
from Debian, be a little patient, unsubscribe from this list, and you will be 
ok!
WE are not all assholes here!

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Dejan Jocic]

On 18-07-17, Jason Wittlin-Cohen wrote:
> Many people have had issues installing with the Live installer on this
> mailing list.  The question is why Debian even offers the option if there
> is no interest in testing it to make it work.  The initial live installer
> images (9.0, before 9.0.1) were completely broken and could not even begin
> the install[1].  Clearly, this resulted from a complete lack of testing as
> it would have been easily caught given that it is a deterministic error
> that to applied to ALL the live ISOs.  I think it's unfair to blame users
> for using the Live media as an installer.  Either test the live images to
> make sure it can be used for installation on a wide variety of hardware, or
> don't provide the option at all.  It appears that the debian-devel mailing
> list HAS called for more testing due to this situation with the explicit
> threat that live images will cease to be produced if nobody wants to test
> them [2].  With that said, users should always use the regular d-i
> installer images to do an actual install.  The live images are useful for
> testing to see if your hardware is supported and also for recovery.
> 
> Takeaway:  If you want to install Debian, either use the network installer
> (small installation image) or use one of the DVD images (large installation
> images), NOT the live disks.  You can download either here:
> https://www.debian.org/distrib/.  Only use the Live ISOs to test out Debian
> and to ensure hardware support.  If you have a need for non-free firmware
> to complete the install (e.g. non-free network firmware for wifi devices),
> use the images here
> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/9.0.0+nonfree/amd64/bt-dvd/
> .
> 
> [1]https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/9.0.1-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/
> [2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2017/06/msg00335.html
> 

Trouble is that live images are, judging by my torrents, most popular
media of choice. Just debian-live-9.0.1-amd64-gnome.iso was uploaded for
23 GB, while debian-9.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso is on 14.68 GB and
debian-9.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso is on 463 MB. So, something in big red
letters should be there on Debian site as a warning for people not to
download live for install. At least till we get 9.0.2 live iso.

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Erik Christiansen]

On 18.07.17 10:29, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 12:14:52AM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > www.debian.org -> "CD/USB ISO images"
> 
> That's where your eyes go?  That's interesting.

Only because this time it's an install from USB, and it's under the
heading "Getting Debian".

> My eyes skip the banner with its embedded "download me" link (because
> it's a friggin' BANNER, and decades of web use have taught me to skip
> all banners), and skip the small print sections, and drop me straight
> to the link that says "obtain a copy" .

That's where I've gone in the past. Unfortunately the maze has grown new
rat runs - some with traps.

> On the second page, there's "Download an installation image" and
> "Try Debian live before installing".  Sadly, the instructions under
> the "Try Debian live" link claim that the live image's installer will
> work.  We all know that it doesn't, but the instructions continue to
> claim that it does.

This little maze-runner is learning too. Thanks for sharing the insiders
obstacle-avoidance info.

> > , then choose the only possibly
> > viable alternative to CD/DVD, since there's no CD/DVD on the new host.
> 
> You also skipped the "Network install" link right above your "CD/USB
> ISO images" link.  I wonder why.

The host isn't yet connected to the network. There's no more room on the
desk, and I don't have a spare long ethernet cable, remiss though that
is.

> On the page you went to, there are two yellow lightbulb boxes, one saying
> to use "Network Install" instead, and the second saying "all CD/DVD images
> can be used on a USB stick too".
> 
> Somehow you skipped over those as well.

"friggin' BANNER"

Erik

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Jason Wittlin-Cohen]

Many people have had issues installing with the Live installer on this
mailing list.  The question is why Debian even offers the option if there
is no interest in testing it to make it work.  The initial live installer
images (9.0, before 9.0.1) were completely broken and could not even begin
the install[1].  Clearly, this resulted from a complete lack of testing as
it would have been easily caught given that it is a deterministic error
that to applied to ALL the live ISOs.  I think it's unfair to blame users
for using the Live media as an installer.  Either test the live images to
make sure it can be used for installation on a wide variety of hardware, or
don't provide the option at all.  It appears that the debian-devel mailing
list HAS called for more testing due to this situation with the explicit
threat that live images will cease to be produced if nobody wants to test
them [2].  With that said, users should always use the regular d-i
installer images to do an actual install.  The live images are useful for
testing to see if your hardware is supported and also for recovery.

Takeaway:  If you want to install Debian, either use the network installer
(small installation image) or use one of the DVD images (large installation
images), NOT the live disks.  You can download either here:
https://www.debian.org/distrib/.  Only use the Live ISOs to test out Debian
and to ensure hardware support.  If you have a need for non-free firmware
to complete the install (e.g. non-free network firmware for wifi devices),
use the images here
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/9.0.0+nonfree/amd64/bt-dvd/
.

[1]https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/9.0.1-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/
[2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2017/06/msg00335.html


On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:47 AM, Darac Marjal 
wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 12:14:52AM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote:
>
>> On 18.07.17 08:20, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:55:26AM +0200, Dejan Jocic wrote:
>>> > This release of Debian came with buggy live images. It was fixed with
>>> > 9.0.1 live images, or at least it seemed so.
>>>
>>> No, the 9.0.1 Debian live images are still broken when used for
>>> installations.  They fail to set a root password or to set up the primary
>>> user account with sudo access, at least in some cases.  Users in Freenode
>>> #debian are constantly having to be told how to boot from rescue media
>>> to set the root password.
>>>
>>> WHY DO PEOPLE ATTEMPT TO INSTALL DEBIAN USING A LIVE CD IMAGE
>>>
>>
>> www.debian.org -> "CD/USB ISO images", then choose the only possibly
>> viable alternative to CD/DVD, since there's no CD/DVD on the new host.
>>
>
> Did you read the two yellow boxes at the top of that page?
>
> 1. If you simply want to install Debian and have an Internet connection
> on the target computer please consider the Network Install media which
> is a smaller download.
>
> 2. On i386 and amd64 architectures, all CD/DVD images can be used on a
> USB stick too.
>
> I can see your logic, but the webpage IS telling you that "Even if
> you're trying to install from USB, these are the images you REALLY
> want."
>
>
> --
> For more information, please reread.
>

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Erik Christiansen]

On 18.07.17 15:47, Darac Marjal wrote:
> Did you read the two yellow boxes at the top of that page?

No, it did not register as text, because it was block colour-guified,
which my (other side of 60) mind registered as "commented out - do not
read". The tiny fontsize visually confirmed that it must be
insignificant fine print. Reading the plain text usually works for me -
it just missed useful clues this time. Still, if it works for most, then
it's good enough.

> 1. If you simply want to install Debian and have an Internet connection
> on the target computer please consider the Network Install media which
> is a smaller download.
> 
> 2. On i386 and amd64 architectures, all CD/DVD images can be used on a
> USB stick too.

> I can see your logic, but the webpage IS telling you that "Even if
> you're trying to install from USB, these are the images you REALLY
> want."

Yeah, whatever you do, someone will misread it. But why does the
"Download CD/DVD images using HTTP." link obscure the fact that it in
reality is "Download CD/DVD/USB images using HTTP." That would help
those of us who go straight to the download options to make a selection.
(Just a suggestion.)

Erik
(Who will make notes, as doing it the hard way is no fun.)

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Darac Marjal]

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 12:14:52AM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote:

On 18.07.17 08:20, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:55:26AM +0200, Dejan Jocic wrote:
> This release of Debian came with buggy live images. It was fixed with
> 9.0.1 live images, or at least it seemed so.

No, the 9.0.1 Debian live images are still broken when used for
installations.  They fail to set a root password or to set up the primary
user account with sudo access, at least in some cases.  Users in Freenode
#debian are constantly having to be told how to boot from rescue media
to set the root password.

WHY DO PEOPLE ATTEMPT TO INSTALL DEBIAN USING A LIVE CD IMAGE


www.debian.org -> "CD/USB ISO images", then choose the only possibly
viable alternative to CD/DVD, since there's no CD/DVD on the new host.


Did you read the two yellow boxes at the top of that page?

1. If you simply want to install Debian and have an Internet connection
on the target computer please consider the Network Install media which
is a smaller download.

2. On i386 and amd64 architectures, all CD/DVD images can be used on a
USB stick too.

I can see your logic, but the webpage IS telling you that "Even if
you're trying to install from USB, these are the images you REALLY
want."


--
For more information, please reread.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 12:14:52AM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> www.debian.org -> "CD/USB ISO images"

That's where your eyes go?  That's interesting.

My eyes skip the banner with its embedded "download me" link (because
it's a friggin' BANNER, and decades of web use have taught me to skip
all banners), and skip the small print sections, and drop me straight
to the link that says "obtain a copy" .

On the second page, there's "Download an installation image" and
"Try Debian live before installing".  Sadly, the instructions under
the "Try Debian live" link claim that the live image's installer will
work.  We all know that it doesn't, but the instructions continue to
claim that it does.

> , then choose the only possibly
> viable alternative to CD/DVD, since there's no CD/DVD on the new host.

You also skipped the "Network install" link right above your "CD/USB
ISO images" link.  I wonder why.

On the page you went to, there are two yellow lightbulb boxes, one saying
to use "Network Install" instead, and the second saying "all CD/DVD images
can be used on a USB stick too".

Somehow you skipped over those as well.

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Erik Christiansen]

On 18.07.17 11:06, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> On the other hand, if you just want to _install_ Debian rather than to
> run it as "live" system, then you should for now use one of the
> installation ISOs.
> E.g. the small one which is just enough to fetch more packages from the
> internet:
> 
>   
> https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/debian-9.0.0-i386-netinst.iso

I should have gone with that one.

> or the DVD sized one with a more complete system:
> 
>   
> https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-dvd/debian-9.0.0-i386-DVD-1.iso

But thought I'd give this a try. It's nearly there. I'll install
tomorrow, as it's after midnight.

> Installation attempts from live-cd ISOs caused lots of complaints.
> (It is unclear how many attempts succeeded.)

Would it be impertinent to enquire why the malfunctioning install option
is not disabled, when it only serves to tarnish the reputation of debian?
(I spent 30 years developing telecommunications software. A lot of
effort went into preventing the release of buggy software.)

Mind you, ubuntu 16.04 doesn't install on the Udoo X86 either, bombing
at boot block installation. If all else fails, I could try their own
distro, but they've had enough delays getting the hardware out, and
their distro might benefit from some bedding down. Debian is more of a
known quantity.

Erik

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Erik Christiansen]

On 18.07.17 08:20, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:55:26AM +0200, Dejan Jocic wrote:
> > This release of Debian came with buggy live images. It was fixed with
> > 9.0.1 live images, or at least it seemed so.
> 
> No, the 9.0.1 Debian live images are still broken when used for
> installations.  They fail to set a root password or to set up the primary
> user account with sudo access, at least in some cases.  Users in Freenode
> #debian are constantly having to be told how to boot from rescue media
> to set the root password.
> 
> WHY DO PEOPLE ATTEMPT TO INSTALL DEBIAN USING A LIVE CD IMAGE

www.debian.org -> "CD/USB ISO images", then choose the only possibly
viable alternative to CD/DVD, since there's no CD/DVD on the new host.

> ESPECIALLY WHEN IT HASN'T WORKED IN MANY YEARS

Now we see the problem. There are other distros which do install from
the live image, and debian purports to do so. It just fails.

> G

My sentiments exactly. Debian's failure to function has wasted hours of
my time.

> Why don't people use the installer to install?

The installer delivered with the live image, or another debian installer?

> I just can't understand.

If "CD/USB ISO images" had not led to a page headed exclusively "Debian
on CDs", and reiterated the exclusion of USB at the first download
option, I'd have given it a go. It is only debian website obfuscation
which has led me to seek an image suitable for USB where it is not
visibly excluded. If the live image obsesses over having a CDROM, then
heaven help us with an image explicitly for ancient media - it can't
possibly work on USB, can it?

Erik

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[rhkramer]

On Tuesday, July 18, 2017 08:20:20 AM Greg Wooledge wrote:
> WHY DO PEOPLE ATTEMPT TO INSTALL DEBIAN USING A LIVE CD IMAGE
> 
> ESPECIALLY WHEN IT HASN'T WORKED IN MANY YEARS
> 
> G
> 
> Why don't people use the installer to install?
> 
> I just can't understand.

Well, just in an effort to attempt an explanation, maybe it is sort of a 
historical / immigration artefact--I haven't tried to install Debian from a 
live image, and I have only vague memories of attempting it with some other 
distro, but, iirc, some other distros used to advertise / claim that 
capability. 

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Fungi4All]

> From: wool...@eeg.ccf.org
> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:55:26AM +0200, Dejan Jocic wrote:
>> This release of Debian came with buggy live images. It was fixed with
>> 9.0.1 live images, or at least it seemed so.
> No, the 9.0.1 Debian live images are still broken when used for
> installations. They fail to set a root password or to set up the primary
> user account with sudo access, at least in some cases. Users in Freenode
> #debian are constantly having to be told how to boot from rescue media
> to set the root password.
> WHY DO PEOPLE ATTEMPT TO INSTALL DEBIAN USING A LIVE CD IMAGE
> ESPECIALLY WHEN IT HASN"T WORKED IN MANY YEARS
> G
> Why don"t people use the installer to install?
> I just can"t understand.

Because not all people can do a proper installation with everything in their 
head
and on hardcopies. Some need some feedback on what is what because only
debianers would understand. I know, hard for you to even conceive that there
are people who do not know what a logical and an illogical partition is, or what
does it mean to install grub in sda or sda2, or why a root pw can be two letters
in the installer but needs to be 23 letters if you ever change it. Not all of 
these
people have a second online system to look things up. And what the hell is a
mirror and what difference does it make which one it is? Arch/Manjaro have
a pinging script that determines the fastest repos based on your current actual
connection. Geography doesn't mean Jack to net-topology, especially outside
the "inner world" the US. You can have an Isp in spain with a primary cable to
its french subsidiary, and the next building one that connects to Italy. The
mirror in Spain is connected to a server in Germany, and if you select it it is
three times as slow as the one in France. And debian is asking the user to
make a choice based on data on their head. G
How about live installers and systemD ... is there a connection?
Do I need to say why I think so and why live installers work like a charm
"elsewhere"? For yearS!
I can too testify that for DEBIAN the only thing they are good for is
to testify that the hardware is installation capable. That's all.
And this is not always, as there seems plenty of non-free stuff cripping
in those live images to ensure they would start and sell the customer
a service.

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:55:26AM +0200, Dejan Jocic wrote:
> This release of Debian came with buggy live images. It was fixed with
> 9.0.1 live images, or at least it seemed so.

No, the 9.0.1 Debian live images are still broken when used for
installations.  They fail to set a root password or to set up the primary
user account with sudo access, at least in some cases.  Users in Freenode
#debian are constantly having to be told how to boot from rescue media
to set the root password.

WHY DO PEOPLE ATTEMPT TO INSTALL DEBIAN USING A LIVE CD IMAGE

ESPECIALLY WHEN IT HASN'T WORKED IN MANY YEARS

G

Why don't people use the installer to install?

I just can't understand.

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Fungi4All]

From: jode...@gmail.com:
> This release of Debian came with buggy live images. It was fixed with
> 9.0.1 live images, or at least it seemed so. Perhaps you discovered bug
> in it that should be reported. Unfortunately, debian live images do not
> get much needed love and because of that are not really preferred method
> of installing. You should be fine with net install image, or with
> regular dvd-1 iso image, be it from usb, or from dvd.
Could there be a possiblity that the live-image installer included parts of
CD-1/dvd-1 of the installer so the installer want to make sure it has a handle
on the cd-r so when cd-2 will need to be entered it can pause the installation
properly?

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Erik Christiansen wrote:
> after setting
> geographic location and keyboard, the debian 9 install process threw up
> a "Detect and mount CD-ROM" screen, insisting on a CD with suitable
> install content. It seemed quite unaware that it is installing from USB.

Well, that's much deeper in the live-cd content than the fundamental ability
to boot from USB stick.

You will probably have to discuss this at
  debian-l...@lists.debian.org
(You are invited to Cc me, as i'm the one who sent you there.)


On the other hand, if you just want to _install_ Debian rather than to
run it as "live" system, then you should for now use one of the
installation ISOs.
E.g. the small one which is just enough to fetch more packages from the
internet:

  
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/debian-9.0.0-i386-netinst.iso

or the DVD sized one with a more complete system:

  
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-dvd/debian-9.0.0-i386-DVD-1.iso

Installation attempts from live-cd ISOs caused lots of complaints.
(It is unclear how many attempts succeeded.)

--

> > [isohybrid]
> Ah, they're what's described as a .img on other sites, then.

About all GNU/Linux distro ISOs nowadays have the isohybrid capability
and are still called ".iso", because that's what they are: ISO 9660
filesystems with boot equipment where the ISO 9660 specs and their add-ons
prescribe to put it. The key terms are "El Torito" and "System Area".

An ".img" is normally a hard disk image which can be copied onto a
random-read-write device and then immediately can be used as installed
operating system. (Shall i call it "after live" system ?)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Dejan Jocic]

On 18-07-17, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> On 18.07.17 08:46, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> > Afaik, unetbootin unpacks the ISO and replaces the boot loader software.
> > Debian discourages its use with live and installation ISOs.
> > 
> > The Debian ISOs for i386 are ready to be simply copied onto the device
> > file of the overall USB stick (i.e. to /dev/sdX not to /dev/sdX1).
> 
> Ah, they're what's described as a .img on other sites, then. I chose
> unetbootin in lieu of a dd copy, based on the .iso suffix.
> 
> > After ensuring that /dev/sdd really is the device address of the USB
> > stick, you just do
> > 
> >   dd if=debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde.iso bs=4M of=/dev/sdd ; sync
> > 
> > See
> >   https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb
> 
> The dd copied the image fine, the Udoo X86 booted on it, and I
> began the install. Sadly, it barfed at the same stage - after setting
> geographic location and keyboard, the debian 9 install process threw up
> a "Detect and mount CD-ROM" screen, insisting on a CD with suitable
> install content. It seemed quite unaware that it is installing from USB.
> 
> Performing a "continue" and a "skip" returns to the "Debian installer
> main menu", with the cursor on "Detect and mount CD-ROM". The dufus
> thing is still obsessing about CDs, despite the web page promising that
> it can do a USB install.
> 
> Are we just up against false advertising? The USB holds ten times what a
> CD can, so there's no rational reason for last-century media to be
> involved.
> 
> I'll wrassle ten years of cabling pile-up on the back half of the desk,
> move the Udoo to the near end of the coffee table, and string an
> ethernet cable over. Maybe a net install will work.
> 
> Erik
> 


This release of Debian came with buggy live images. It was fixed with
9.0.1 live images, or at least it seemed so. Perhaps you discovered bug
in it that should be reported. Unfortunately, debian live images do not
get much needed love and because of that are not really preferred method
of installing. You should be fine with net install image, or with
regular dvd-1 iso image, be it from usb, or from dvd.

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Erik Christiansen]

On 18.07.17 08:46, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Afaik, unetbootin unpacks the ISO and replaces the boot loader software.
> Debian discourages its use with live and installation ISOs.
> 
> The Debian ISOs for i386 are ready to be simply copied onto the device
> file of the overall USB stick (i.e. to /dev/sdX not to /dev/sdX1).

Ah, they're what's described as a .img on other sites, then. I chose
unetbootin in lieu of a dd copy, based on the .iso suffix.

> After ensuring that /dev/sdd really is the device address of the USB
> stick, you just do
> 
>   dd if=debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde.iso bs=4M of=/dev/sdd ; sync
> 
> See
>   https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb

The dd copied the image fine, the Udoo X86 booted on it, and I
began the install. Sadly, it barfed at the same stage - after setting
geographic location and keyboard, the debian 9 install process threw up
a "Detect and mount CD-ROM" screen, insisting on a CD with suitable
install content. It seemed quite unaware that it is installing from USB.

Performing a "continue" and a "skip" returns to the "Debian installer
main menu", with the cursor on "Detect and mount CD-ROM". The dufus
thing is still obsessing about CDs, despite the web page promising that
it can do a USB install.

Are we just up against false advertising? The USB holds ten times what a
CD can, so there's no rational reason for last-century media to be
involved.

I'll wrassle ten years of cabling pile-up on the back half of the desk,
move the Udoo to the near end of the coffee table, and string an
ethernet cable over. Maybe a net install will work.

Erik

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

> After downloading
> https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/i386/iso-hybrid/debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde.iso
> and putting it on a USB stick with unetbootin,

Afaik, unetbootin unpacks the ISO and replaces the boot loader software.
Debian discourages its use with live and installation ISOs.

The Debian ISOs for i386 are ready to be simply copied onto the device
file of the overall USB stick (i.e. to /dev/sdX not to /dev/sdX1).

After ensuring that /dev/sdd really is the device address of the USB
stick, you just do

  dd if=debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde.iso bs=4M of=/dev/sdd ; sync

See
  https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb

Example how to make sure to have the correct device file or to make
a backup of the old stick content:
  
http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php?title=Isohybrid#Copying_onto_USB_stick_by_shell_commands


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Erik Christiansen]

After downloading
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/i386/iso-hybrid/debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde.iso
and putting it on a USB stick with unetbootin, the install spuriously
stops due to an obsessive excursion to mount a (non-existent) CDROM. The
link to the download page says: >> "Hybrid" ISO image files suitable for
writing to DVD-R(W) or CD-R(W) media, depending on size, and also USB
keys of the appropriate size. << So it does claim to work with USB.

How to keep the install process on the media it has used up to that
stage, and install as advertised?

An attempt to install ubuntu 16.04, using the same USB/unetbootin method
went fine for most of the install, but barfed when trying to write the
boot block. So it's not unetbootin which has an unhealthy CDROM obsession.

Any clues gratefully received.

Erik