Re: Debian: A noob query

[Jochen Spieker]

Joey Hess:
> 
> This graph puts the other in perspective; gnome is used by seven times
> as many users. There is an interesting drop at the end of this month
> however.

s/used/installed.

I have Gnome 3 installed as well, but I don't actually use it very much.

J.
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[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Joey Hess]

Rob Owens wrote:
> But I also don't see an obvious alternative that most GNOME 2 users are
> switching to.  XFCE and LXDE get mentioned a lot, but I don't think it's
> clear yet which desktop environment will get most of the GNOME 2
> refugees.

This graph clearly shows a spike in xfce in the past month; while lxde
is generally growing in use it has not had a similar sharp spike.

http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=xfce4+lxde-core&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1

This graph puts the other in perspective; gnome is used by seven times
as many users. There is an interesting drop at the end of this month
however.

http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=xfce4+lxde-core+kde-standard+gnome-desktop-environment&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1

The other asonishing thing about this graph is that xfce has nearly
reached the level of use of KDE4! With that said, KDE4 is also
experiencing some growth lately.

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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Rob Owens]

On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 07:38:46PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Sat, 2011-11-26 at 10:17 -0500, Rob Owens wrote:
> 
> Stable still might use GNOME 2, but starting with a dead desktop
> environment is nonsense.
> 
That's a good point about not wanting to start down a dead-end street.
I'm not sure yet if GNOME 2 is a dead-end (there have been talks of
forks, etc), although I don't have very high hopes for it.

But I also don't see an obvious alternative that most GNOME 2 users are
switching to.  XFCE and LXDE get mentioned a lot, but I don't think it's
clear yet which desktop environment will get most of the GNOME 2
refugees.  So I don't know what to recommend to new users other than
GNOME 2 since it probably has the greatest number of users as of right
now -- and for new users there is safety (and support) in numbers.

-Rob


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 2011-11-26 at 10:17 -0500, Rob Owens wrote:
> Just remember that as you learn more, you might switch distros at
> some time.

Good advice :)

> For now, stick with the defaults because that's what most people will be
> able to help you with.  In Debian's case, that would be the Gnome
> desktop.

I suspect that at this list a lot of people switched to Xfce some days
ago ;). The Debian child Ubuntu Studio switched to Xfce.

I hardly recommend NOT TO USE GNOME 3.

>  I don't use it, but I did for a long time and it's good.

GNOME 2 is good! GNOME 3 (at least for Debian) is downright ridiculous,
it e.g. force you to use the proprietary Nvidia driver, while at the
same time using the Nvidia driver could be illegal, e.g. when using the
realtime patch for the kernel, 3 system calls strictly force GNU
compatibility.

> Don't overwhelm yourself with new things.

Ignoring things could lead to frustration!

The "needs" are important, if e.g. the need is to produce music or to
use CNC machines, well than Debian does mean that you have to build a
kernel yourself, rt, resp. rtai, at least for the rt and GNOME 3 you
need to know how to offend the GNU, when using a Nvidia card.

So, for audio a beginner better should test AV Linux, for CNC users
Ubuntu EMC² might be a good choice.

Stable still might use GNOME 2, but starting with a dead desktop
environment is nonsense.

Note this isn't FUD its brutal truth!

2 important Cents,

Ralf


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[darkestkhan]

2011/11/24 Sam Vagni :
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 7:06 AM, Andrew Wood  wrote:
>
>> Hi Sam
>
> Hello.
>
>> I would whole heartedly recommend Debian. The problem with the other distros
>> like Ubuntu, Fedora etc that try to be on the bleeding edge is that they
>> tend to be buggy (and often slower) and each time a new release come out
>> upgrading tends to break everything, and becasue they work on such a short
>> life cycle (6 months between releases no matter what) you have to keep
>> upgrading to get the latest security fixes etc but the 6 monthly deadline
>> means stuff gets released before its ready.  Theyre great distros for
>> developers who want to test out the latest technology but theyre not suited
>> for desktop 'everyday' use even though unfortunatly thats how they market
>> them, and I think Linux's reputation as a whole suffers as a result.
>
> Yeah, I think you are right, they are unstable and each time a newer
> version comes before anyone is addicted with the older one.
>

Many ppl are using Debian only for its stability (testing is quite
stable (though from time to time (quite rarely) something does break),
and I didn't have many problems with unstable (only one, and I found
workaround for it)

>> Debian is a rock solid distro, after many years of using Linux on servers
>> and the desktop and trying (and getting frustrated by) Fedora, Ubuntu &
>> Linux Mint I've settled on Debian and found it to be pure quality.
>
> Debian - yeas I heard of its rock solid stability! But I have not
> heard of newbies using it, seems typical for them, so as a newbie
> would it not be that difficult...? I am after all not a geek user!
>

I started with Debian :) and the first thing I did was dist-upgrade to
testing (Lenny times, testing had working drivers for my Atheros wifi
card), which broke my system (udev + kernel change), but as I
experimented with udev and kernel upgrade sequence (first had to
upgrade udev, restart, then kernel, then restart and boot with newer
kernel) I upgraded it to testing. Then I dist-upgraded to unstable and
was using it up to hdd failure (about 6 months, some hardware problem
caused loss of partition table, didn't know that I could recover from
that)

Point is: trying to repair stuff when it breaks is the best way to
learn its ins and outs, though that demands some patience from person.

>> Ive not had any problems with hardware compatability (unlike Linux Mint &
>> Fedora which Ive had headaches with to do with graphics) and as for not
>> having the latest technology, its not that out of date, and what would you
>> rather have - the absolute latest version which no one has tested (you're
>> the tester!) or a version slightly behind the cutting edge which has been
>> tried, tested and fixed?
>
> Yeah, the great thing with Debian might be that it is stable and bug
> free, so that's what the best part I guess.
>

Every complex software has bugs, though Debian is relatively stable
(when comparing to avionic software, Debian oldstable has too many
stability issues to even compare ;P (but with such comparison almost
everything else is unusable)), and you will learn how (relatively) bug
free system can be (so you will not put up with things full of bugs)

>[snip]
>> you might need to manually install the fimware packages for some of your
>> hardware with Debian (its not installed by default) which you dont need to
>> do with other distros but its not difficult and the end result is worth it.
>
> Lastly, I am confused, if using Debian and installing software is easy
> or tough for noobs?
>
> Thanks.

I believe installing apps on Debian, through either GUI or CLI
(provided they know the name of app manager), is not hard (easier than
in Windows, IMHO)

darkestkhan
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Re: Debian: A noob query

[darkestkhan]

2011/11/26 Wilko Fokken :
>
> Hello Sam,
>
> (some postings above, you mentioned having but 2 GB RAM.)
>
> It is said that, for a 64bit system, one should have at
> least 4 GB RAM installed.
>

I don't agree. I have 3GB RAM, for which 512MB is taken by video card,
leaving me with 2.5GB RAM, and I'm running 64bit quite happily. I
would say (and that is what my friends are also saying, even though
they are using MS Windows) that having 2GB RAM is enough to run 64bit
system. And there are some pro's (and con's) of running 64bit system
instead of 32bit:
* you have 2 times the number of registers accessible to your
applications, which is quite a big speedup
* whenever you have operations on bigger numbers you are getting it
calculated way much faster - thx to larger register size
* twice as much vector registers, which is quite big speedup in
audio/video processing (even simple playing it!, and converting them
gets even bigger speedup)
* you can expand RAM and not have to worry about limits of RAM
* I think most 64bit CPU do support SSSE3 and, quite often, newer
vectors orders, which means that you can recompile some programs to
take use of it (just a simple compiler switch change), which can give
you nice speedup in some applications (float processing mainly - again
- audio, video)
con's:
* greater memory usage due to bigger size of address (2x size of
pointers, almost everything else is not affected by it)
* some applications (mainly proprietary) do not support 64bit too well
(flashplugin-nonfree? (recently it is working w/o much problems))
* some drivers may not work on 64bit system

darkestkhan
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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Rob Owens]

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 05:36:09PM -0500, Brad Alexander wrote:
> Hi Sam,
> 
> I'll throw in my 2 cents as well...
> 
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Weaver  wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 06:43:54 -0500
> > Sam Vagni  wrote:
> >
> > > Hello everyone,
> >
> > Hello Sam,
> > >
> > > I just want to go into Linux, coming from Windows XP. Just want to
> > > know if Debian is good to go with and learn then?
> >
> > It's good to go with, depending on what you're looking for.
> > If you want to learn, there's no Linux distro better for the purpose,
> > but an easier introduction could be by downloading and installing LMDE
> > here: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1818 which many are switching to
> > from Ubuntu.
> >
> 
> It also depends on what you want to learn and how deeply you want to delve
> into Linux. I have been working with Linux for many years (I started using
> Linux to teach myself SunOS 4.1.3). I started with Slackware (2.2.0.1) and
> progressed to RedHat, then started using Debian, where I have been ever
> since.
> 
OP:  Just remember that as you learn more, you might switch distros at
some time.  Don't worry too much about choosing the distro that will be
best for you in the long run.  Choose what is best for you right now.
Maybe that's one of the "hand-holding" distros, or maybe it's Debian
(which requires only slightly more learning than the hand-holding
distros).

For now, stick with the defaults because that's what most people will be
able to help you with.  In Debian's case, that would be the Gnome
desktop.  I don't use it, but I did for a long time and it's good.  It
makes some things easier than they would be if you just installed a
window manager.  

Don't overwhelm yourself with new things.  Take it one step at a time.

-Rob


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Andrei Popescu]

On Jo, 24 nov 11, 12:50:47, Andrew Wood wrote:
> 
> apt-get install packagename will download and install just the
> package specified but the installation may fail if it depends on
> other packages, or

No it won't.

> aptitude install packagename will do the same but also seamlessly
> download & install any other packages that it depends on
 
Both apt and aptitude will download packages as needed. There are 
differences in behaviour, but not important for a new user.

> if you have a .deb file which youve downloaded from the website you
> can install it with dpkg -i /path/to/packagename.deb

dpkg only operates at file level. It can install dependencies only if 
provided together with the package, otherwise it will fail.

Hope this clarifies,
Andrei
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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Wilko Fokken]

Hello Sam,

(some postings above, you mentioned having but 2 GB RAM.)

It is said that, for a 64bit system, one should have at
least 4 GB RAM installed.


greetings

-- 
 
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from cocksure ignorance
to thoughtful uncertainty.


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Lisi]

On Friday 25 November 2011 17:27:00 Brad Alexander wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 3:19 PM, Lisi  wrote:
> > > A simple, accepting all defaults to make life easy, installation of
> >
> > Debian 6
> >
> > > or higher will give you GNOME.  Anything else is more complex.
> >
> > That's right but please let me know 'Anything else' include(s) what?
> > Like since I am downloading Debian, so it is Debian 6 only and since I
> > have to install a fresh system, why would I go a version earlier than
> > 6?s
>
> I believe he means installation of other desktop environments (e.g. KDE,
> XFCE, Enlightenment, etc.)

Yes, I do/did, and thank you for making my text clearer.  I seem to explain 
too much or too little, and seem quite incapable of  hitting the golden mean.  
But "she" please!!

Lisi


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Walter Hurry]

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 17:47:08 +, Andrew Wood wrote:

> Adobes version of Flash was (when I downloaded it a month or so ago) 32
> bit which will run on a 64 bit OS BUT only with a 32 bit web browser so
> you need to make sure you have the 32 bit version of Firefox. I made
> that mistake:)

Wrong on both counts.



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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Andrew Wood]

On 24/11/11 18:45, Weaver wrote:

It's good to go with, depending on what you're looking for.
If you want to learn, there's no Linux distro better for the purpose,
but an easier introduction could be by downloading and installing LMDE
here: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1818 which many are switching to
from Ubuntu.



Careful.  Ive found from experience that updates to LMDE tend to break 
things horribly which is a shame because if it worked properly I think 
it would be the front runner to take Linux 'mainstream'



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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Joe]

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 05:09:08 -0500
Sam Vagni  wrote:

> 
> What in fact is 'midnight commander', is it distro specific or
> application or software...? Didn't get this pointIs it a file
> manager like Nautilus or Dolpin (I heard of them...)?
> 
It's an application for any Linux distribution. It is mainly a file
manager and simple text editor, with a few other admin-type bells and
whistles. The name comes from the days of DOS, thirty-ish years ago,
when Peter Norton's Norton Commander was very popular. The mc looks
quite like NC did.

It's important because it is a text-mode program, and is probably the
most popular file manager for servers, which generally do not have a
GUI installed. There was at one time an X-based version, but I believe
there currently is not one.

As the previous poster said, it is easy to run as root, using sudo in a
terminal. That's pretty much how you need to run X-based file managers
as root, but 'sudo mc' is quick and easy to remember. The terminal will
still accept most commands while mc stays open, so chown and chmod
commands can be entered either as text or through the mc menus.

The bottom line is that it is the most GUI-like of the text file
managers and editors, and a basic familiarity with it is extremely
useful when (not if) you one day have problems getting X to start. I
use Nautilus almost all the time when actually using a Linux computer,
but mc for all admin work.

-- 
Joe


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Andrew Wood]

Adobes version of Flash was (when I downloaded it a month or so ago) 32 
bit which will run on a 64 bit OS BUT only with a 32 bit web browser so 
you need to make sure you have the 32 bit version of Firefox. I made 
that mistake:)



There was a time when several things (like Flash!!) would not work in 
64bit. I haven't myself tried to run Adobe's version of Flash on a 
64bit system, so do not know whether one now can. It is not impossible 
that there may be some things that don't run in 64bit Linux. I myself 
am running an x86 system with a 64bit processor, so cannot look and 
see for you. Lisi 



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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Andrew Wood]

On 24/11/11 14:57, Sam Vagni wrote:

Yeah sure, but it could really be silly but I don't know which
graphics card/chips I am using...? Can you please tell me about
it...But my speakers give sound whenever I play any song in Windows
XP, however, I remember it used Real tek audio drivers when I
installed windowsSpeakers are giving sound, still graphic card is
different from it...? These questions could really be of very basic
nature, I do understand, but computers was not my field ever
A good idea might be to use a live cd even one of another distro like 
Fedora and run the lspci command and then copy & paste the output to 
this list then we can see exactly what hardware there is and point you 
in the exact right direction.


Despite my frustrations with Fedora ive actually been trying out version 
16 the last few days and it seems unusually robust and problem free.


Even if you want to run Debian in the long run testing hardware with the 
Fedroa live CD might be a good first step, as all the firmware etc will 
automatically be there and we can use it to quickly and easily find out 
exactly what hardware you have.



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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Brad Alexander]

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 5:09 AM, Sam Vagni  wrote:

>  On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Weaver  wrote:
>
>
> > Hello Sam,
>
> Hello.
>
> > It's good to go with, depending on what you're looking for.
> > If you want to learn, there's no Linux distro better for the purpose,
> > but an easier introduction could be by downloading and installing LMDE
> > here: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1818 which many are switching to
> > from Ubuntu.
>
> You mean Linux Mint...? But I heard of Debian that: It is almost bug
> free due to its relatively low release schedule, it contains highly
> tested softwares and that's why sometimes, it lacks the cutting edge
> technology, I just need the most stable version to learn so that once
> addicted to it, I might feel better, I know for all reasons, that
> learning would be taking much much time since it is my curiosity to
> know not the full time job (which is a different one). But, yes, I
> would definitely go with your suggestion of Live CD trials of Linux
> Mint too, I heard of it being one of the most simplest distro in the
> world of Linux, but I have only heard.
>
> > After playing with that for a while and you feel you would like to get
> > more 'hands on', by all means, install Debian.
>
> Ah well, Debian, as I heard is one of the most stable and bug free (I
> think 0% bugs) distro...But I know that it might take way long time to
> be compatible with Debian, to know how it works and how to accomplish
> tasks using Debian, one of the most matured Linux distribution (I
> heard this too, :)...).
>
>
Well, there is no truly bug-free software. Debian has bugs, just like
everything else. After all, there are bugs in the upstream packages which
then get pushed into Debian. The Debian team does a good job of mitigating
those bugs. I was recently affected by a regression in the nvidia driver.
Upstream fixed it, and Debian pushed it out. That is the main difference
between Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) and commercial software. MS
has a number of bugs that are 17 or 18 years old that they admit they will
never fix.

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 3:19 PM, Lisi  wrote:
>
> > A simple, accepting all defaults to make life easy, installation of
> Debian 6
> > or higher will give you GNOME.  Anything else is more complex.
>
> That's right but please let me know 'Anything else' include(s) what?
> Like since I am downloading Debian, so it is Debian 6 only and since I
> have to install a fresh system, why would I go a version earlier than
> 6?s
>

I believe he means installation of other desktop environments (e.g. KDE,
XFCE, Enlightenment, etc.)


>
> > GNOME is the *default*, and that was the question I was answering.  I do
> not
> > myself use GNOME.
>
> Okay,GNOME is default, but amazing that you yourself don't use the
> default...? However, its your personal choice, but I am sure there is
> no issue with GNOME
>

I also do not use GNOME. I am a KDE user, and prior to that I used
Enlightenment. One thing you have to remember is that Linux is about
freedom of choice. There are several choices for any conceivable app you
might run. In the Windows world, you have one or maybe two apps to do a
given task. With Linux (and *BSD), you may have half a dozen tools to do
the same task.


> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Brad Alexander  wrote:
>
> > It also depends on what you want to learn and how deeply you want to
> delve
> > into Linux. I have been working with Linux for many years (I started
> using
> > Linux to teach myself SunOS 4.1.3). I started with Slackware (2.2.0.1)
> and
> > progressed to RedHat, then started using Debian, where I have been ever
> > since.
>
> Since you finally stopped at Debian, I came to know that Debian should
> be the king here otherwise you could have tried others more and
> stopped there, however, this is what I feel. Yes, target of mine is to
> know Linux basics, like how basically a Linux System works!
>

Personally, I think Debian has the best balance of the Linux distros I
tried. I like, and am comfortable with, the package management system.

Also, if I might suggest a couple of sources for additional Linux
information, a couple of Linux podcasts come to mind. The first was Chess
Griffin's excellent Linux Reality podcast, which is no longer made, however
the archives are still available at
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=creator:%22chess%20griffin%22&usort=date

The other is called Linux Basix, and is available at
http://www.linuxbasix.com


>  > That said, IMHO, if your goal is to become a sysadmin or similar work, I
> > would recommend, at some point, dabbling in Slackware, Gentoo, or for the
> > truly hardcore, Linux From Scratch. While this can be frustrating at
> times,
> > it also has the advantage of honing your troubleshooting skills. If you
> are
> > wanting to become more of a casual user, Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS, Ubuntu
> (if
> > you can get past the Unity interface) are more complete solutions, drop
> a CD
> > in and it installs. It's

Re: Debian: A noob query

[T U]

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Sam Vagni wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 3:19 PM, Lisi wrote:
>
>> A simple, accepting all defaults to make life easy, installation of Debian 6
>> or higher will give you GNOME.  Anything else is more complex.
>
> That's right but please let me know 'Anything else' include(s) what?
> Like since I am downloading Debian, so it is Debian 6 only and since I
> have to install a fresh system, why would I go a version earlier than
> 6?s
>
Anything else would be installing some other desktop environment, just
window manager without extras, or even not installing anything graphical.

You can find three other popular desktop environments in installer under
advanced options/alternative desktop environments. If you want to try just
window manager, probably easiest way is to install system without any
desktop and then log in as root to install your wm with 'aptitude install
icewm' (or whichever wm you have chosen, and any extras you might
want).

Personally I've been happy with just wm, but most people seem to prefer
having some desktop.


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Sam Vagni]

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:33 AM, John W. Foster  wrote:

> Hi Sam & welcome to the world of Linux. I have tried them all as well as
> most versions of everything else out there that will run on my
> machines..HeHe even Minuet. I just like to try out new stuff. However I
> am not any kind of software developer, just a curious person, so when I
> need to do a job that requires 'dependable' software, I use Debian. I
> have been messing about with Linux since it was developed & required 20
> plus floppy disks just to get it to run, so I speak from that vantage
> point.

That's nice, I too curiour, :)

> Some bits of advice:
> Try out several distros of Linux that are run from a 'Live CD/DVD'. This
> is much easier than doing an install and experimenting on your machine.
> It also will allow you to test the software on 'your' hardware system.

Oh, well, I would try this option... But it would of course, require
downloading all of the CD/DVDs

> These CD/DVD can be downloaded and burnt very easily or ordered over the
> internet. Another upside of this process is that most of those live CDs
> will allow you to actually install a running system to the machine they
> are running on.
> What ever distro you choose; install midnight commander. It will at some
> point save your sanity. It is a superb console or xterminal file manager
> & can be run as a superuser very easily.

What in fact is 'midnight commander', is it distro specific or
application or software...? Didn't get this pointIs it a file
manager like Nautilus or Dolpin (I heard of them...)?

> This mailing list gets repopulated from time to time with folks that are
> willing to help with getting you out of most any situation that you run
> into. Some are always polite and helpful, some are not so polite but
> still helpful. Depends on how you ask a question & if you supply enough
> info for them to answer. I sometimes, to this day, forget when I ask a
> question, to do that & usually do not get the response I'm seeking. Look
> at it from their standpoint. They are 'volunteering' their help as do
> the software developers of Linux (some of which frequent this list) so
> try not to waste their time. Always try to find your own answers before
> you ask here. If you do not, the way you ask the question will show that
> you did not. Always Read the manual, or dig on the web, & check the
> mailing list archives, before asking your question. Remember that if you
> do not get an answer, it likely just means the right person has not seen
> the question. I have actually gone for several weeks before someone gave
> or pointed me to the info that allows me to find the answer to a
> question. Usually if its that tough or 'specific' you just have to keep
> trying, without ranting.

I agree with you, it would really be nice to use Linux...cool

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Lisi  wrote:

> I'm pretty sure that that is one I have installed for someone else.  I myself
> have the ML-1510, which is older, but similar.  At one stage I had to use
> the "wrong" driver with a printer, I don't remember which, that I was
> installing for someone else.  I just tried each similar sounding model until
> I came to one that worked OK!  But that was before the days of splix.  With
> splix you should be fine.

Oh well, than I am sure, ML 1610 would too work., with splix, perhaps

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:36 AM, SM  wrote:

> Only the first one is needed to install Debian.

> The rest include the whole of Debian main package repository.
> Downloading them all is only sensible if you're installing in the
> system that has no Internet connection and never will have. And even
> then I doubt you need *every* CD (or DVD).

Oh I see, than I go with only the first one, okay, the link of which is:

http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.3/amd64/bt-cd/debian-6.0.3-amd64-CD-1.iso.torrent

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:50 AM, Lisi  wrote:

> There is no "of course".  Sorry, I did not make myself clear.  With a 64 bit
> processor, either a 32bit or 64bit system would work without problems.

Oh I see.

> There was a time when several things (like Flash!!) would not work in 64bit.  
> I
> haven't myself tried to run Adobe's version of Flash on a 64bit system, so do
> not know whether one now can.

Oh I see...Yea, I heard of it too that 64 bit systems give sometimes
problems with flash and java, especially as Firefox plugins, but I
have only heard.

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Walter Hurry  wrote:

> Flash 64 works just fine here - and so does everything else. By the way,
> even in the old days before Flash 64 bit was available, it was quite easy
> to get Flash 32 bit working on 64 bit Linux. I see no reason for OP to
> avoid 64 bit Debian.

Ok, then I should go only for 64 bit version!

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Anthony Campbell  
wrote:

> There are others, and of course you don't have to use a desktop manager
> at all. Quite a few people, me included, prefer 

Re: Debian: A noob query

[Andreas Weber]

On 2011-11-24 16:02, Walter Hurry wrote:
> Ah, right, thanks. I didn't know that - I tend to stick with HP as I've 
> always had excellent results with their printers and HPLIP.

I did the same for a long time, too.

Finally I gave Epson a try and I like it, actually because of 1 special
option (besides good printing quality):

That thing goes on printing black even if the color is empty.

HTH, ändu


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Patrick Bartek]

--- On Thu, 11/24/11, Lisi  wrote:

> On Thursday 24 November 2011 19:47:01 Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > Contrary to most of the recommendations you'll get
> here (It's a Debian list
> > after all), I highly suggest you go with PCLinuxOS
> instead of Debian.  I
> > ALWAYS recommend PCLinuxOS to Windows users making
> their first foray into
> > Linux territory as it's been specifically designed
> from the ground up
> > particularly for those users.  It also has the added
> advantage of being
> > distributed as a LiveCD.  So, you can boot it up, use
> it, see if everything
> > works--hardware and software, before installing
> without affecting your
> > Windows install.  Just RTFM thoroughly before
> installing: Linux isn't
> > Windows.
> >
> >    http://www.pclinuxos.com/
> 
> I did not suggest it myself because my experience of
> PCLinuxOS is out of date.

I myself do keep up, not only with PCLOS, but several other "noobie" distros, 
too.
  
> But it certainly used to be a prime candidate for anyone
> coming from Windows, 
> or anyone wanting the distro's help with
> administration.  And it had many 
> experienced users who continued to support it.
> 
> It is a rolling update distribution, which can cause
> problems, but that would 
> not cause problems to a newbie!

That's one of the reasons I don't use it.  Or any rolling release.  My current 
system is about 6 years old, and won't be replaced until the MB dies or it 
stops doing what I need it to do.  Nothing so infuriating as obsoleting your 
hardware with a software update.

Of course, you can always turn off PCLOS' updating.

B



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Re: Debian: A noob query

[shawn wilson]

32 vs 64 bit - I still use 32 bit because I care about ram more than
processing.

Second, I'd use linux in a vm if I were you actually I am doing this
more and more now. For instance I've got ubuntu in a virtualbox installed
at work (because putty sucks, cygwin is a pain, etc - yeah I just use it
for konsole there)

Lastly, I've gotten lazy over the years. I used to buy things with the best
specs and spend a week or more getting it fully functional. Now, I still
look at specs but if the hardware isn't popular with good drivers on every
of, I will probably look elsewhere. So, I like the path of least
resistance. This is why I have a Mac (though all I use there is chrome,
iterm, and ) use virtualbox for damn near everything.

My point in all of this is that if windows is working for you, use it. If
you want / need linux for any reason, put it in a virtual. At this point it
doesn't really matter how well linux supports your hardware. It supports
virtualbox quite well.
On Nov 24, 2011 5:36 PM, "Brad Alexander"  wrote:

> Hi Sam,
>
> I'll throw in my 2 cents as well...
>
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Weaver  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 06:43:54 -0500
>> Sam Vagni  wrote:
>>
>> > Hello everyone,
>>
>> Hello Sam,
>> >
>> > I just want to go into Linux, coming from Windows XP. Just want to
>> > know if Debian is good to go with and learn then?
>>
>> It's good to go with, depending on what you're looking for.
>> If you want to learn, there's no Linux distro better for the purpose,
>> but an easier introduction could be by downloading and installing LMDE
>> here: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1818 which many are switching to
>> from Ubuntu.
>>
>
> It also depends on what you want to learn and how deeply you want to delve
> into Linux. I have been working with Linux for many years (I started using
> Linux to teach myself SunOS 4.1.3). I started with Slackware (2.2.0.1) and
> progressed to RedHat, then started using Debian, where I have been ever
> since.
>
> That said, IMHO, if your goal is to become a sysadmin or similar work, I
> would recommend, at some point, dabbling in Slackware, Gentoo, or for the
> truly hardcore, Linux From Scratch. While this can be frustrating at times,
> it also has the advantage of honing your troubleshooting skills. If you are
> wanting to become more of a casual user, Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS, Ubuntu (if
> you can get past the Unity interface) are more complete solutions, drop a
> CD in and it installs. It's like buying a car. You don't buy your teenager
> a brand new Aston Martin DB9...You get them an older Honda Accord.
>
> --b
>

Re: Debian: A noob query

[Brad Alexander]

Hi Sam,

I'll throw in my 2 cents as well...

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Weaver  wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 06:43:54 -0500
> Sam Vagni  wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone,
>
> Hello Sam,
> >
> > I just want to go into Linux, coming from Windows XP. Just want to
> > know if Debian is good to go with and learn then?
>
> It's good to go with, depending on what you're looking for.
> If you want to learn, there's no Linux distro better for the purpose,
> but an easier introduction could be by downloading and installing LMDE
> here: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1818 which many are switching to
> from Ubuntu.
>

It also depends on what you want to learn and how deeply you want to delve
into Linux. I have been working with Linux for many years (I started using
Linux to teach myself SunOS 4.1.3). I started with Slackware (2.2.0.1) and
progressed to RedHat, then started using Debian, where I have been ever
since.

That said, IMHO, if your goal is to become a sysadmin or similar work, I
would recommend, at some point, dabbling in Slackware, Gentoo, or for the
truly hardcore, Linux From Scratch. While this can be frustrating at times,
it also has the advantage of honing your troubleshooting skills. If you are
wanting to become more of a casual user, Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS, Ubuntu (if
you can get past the Unity interface) are more complete solutions, drop a
CD in and it installs. It's like buying a car. You don't buy your teenager
a brand new Aston Martin DB9...You get them an older Honda Accord.

--b

Re: Debian: A noob query

[Lisi]

On Thursday 24 November 2011 20:42:59 Walter Hurry wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:24:34 +, Lisi wrote:
> > On Thursday 24 November 2011 16:15:45 Walter Hurry wrote:
> >> I see no reason for OP to avoid 64 bit Debian.
> >
> > Sorry - as usual I am not making myself clear.  I am not suggesting that
> > he should.  I said that here would no doubt others who could better
> > inform him of the pros and cons.
>
> Agreed; you did say that. It is just that mentioning the matter at all
> raises a certain amount of fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Yes, I had already though that people could usefully say less about the 
alternatives.  So it was remiss of me to do the same thing.

> It is of course entirely possible to run 32 bit Linux on 64 bit hardware,
> but IMO there is absolutely no reason for OP to do so.
>
> Your remark about 32 bit Flash on 64 bit Debian *was* incorrect, though.

I said "There was a time when several things (like Flash!!) would not work in 
64bit."

I stand by that.  There *was* such a time.  I do not know the present 
position, and said so.

But as you say, I shouldn't have said anything about it at all.

Lisi


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Walter Hurry]

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:24:34 +, Lisi wrote:

> On Thursday 24 November 2011 16:15:45 Walter Hurry wrote:
>> I see no reason for OP to avoid 64 bit Debian.
> 
> Sorry - as usual I am not making myself clear.  I am not suggesting that
> he should.  I said that here would no doubt others who could better
> inform him of the pros and cons.

Agreed; you did say that. It is just that mentioning the matter at all 
raises a certain amount of fear, uncertainty and doubt.

It is of course entirely possible to run 32 bit Linux on 64 bit hardware, 
but IMO there is absolutely no reason for OP to do so.

Your remark about 32 bit Flash on 64 bit Debian *was* incorrect, though.



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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Lisi]

On Thursday 24 November 2011 19:47:01 Patrick Bartek wrote:
> Contrary to most of the recommendations you'll get here (It's a Debian list
> after all), I highly suggest you go with PCLinuxOS instead of Debian.  I
> ALWAYS recommend PCLinuxOS to Windows users making their first foray into
> Linux territory as it's been specifically designed from the ground up
> particularly for those users.  It also has the added advantage of being
> distributed as a LiveCD.  So, you can boot it up, use it, see if everything
> works--hardware and software, before installing without affecting your
> Windows install.  Just RTFM thoroughly before installing: Linux isn't
> Windows.
>
>    http://www.pclinuxos.com/

I did not suggest it myself because my experience of PCLinuxOS is out of date.  
But it certainly used to be a prime candidate for anyone coming from Windows, 
or anyone wanting the distro's help with administration.  And it had many 
experienced users who continued to support it.

It is a rolling update distribution, which can cause problems, but that would 
not cause problems to a newbie!

Lisi


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Lisi]

On Thursday 24 November 2011 16:15:45 Walter Hurry wrote:
> I see no reason for OP to
> avoid 64 bit Debian.

Sorry - as usual I am not making myself clear.  I am not suggesting that he 
should.  I said that here would no doubt others who could better inform him 
of the pros and cons. 

All I was attempting to say here was that it is perfectly technically possible 
to use either with a 64 bit processor.  I can't express opinions myself, 
because I have not at present got a 64 bit installation running, so can't 
look at one.

Lisi


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Lisi]

On Thursday 24 November 2011 16:33:24 Anthony Campbell wrote:
> On 24 Nov 2011, Lisi wrote:
> > > but please tell me if KDE is the
> > > default of GNOME is the default desktop for debian?
> >
> > GNOME is now the Debian default desktop.
>
> There are others, and of course you don't have to use a desktop manager
> at all. Quite a few people, me included, prefer to use a window manager
> and no desktop. But I suppose that, coming from Windows, you might feel
> lost without one.
>
> --
> Anthony Campbell - a...@acampbell.org.uk
> Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux
> http://www.acampbell.org.uk - sample my ebooks at
> http://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/acampbell

A simple, accepting all defaults to make life easy, installation of Debian 6 
or higher will give you GNOME.  Anything else is more complex.  

GNOME is the *default*, and that was the question I was answering.  I do not 
myself use GNOME.

Lisi


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Patrick Bartek]

--- On Thu, 11/24/11, Sam Vagni  wrote:

> I just want to go into Linux, coming from Windows XP. Just
> want to
> know if Debian is good to go with and learn then?
> 
> Just to clear my doubts that head people saying about its'
> non-compatibility with the newest hardware and not having
> latest
> technology, is it a myth? Further, I hope I can use easily
> Flash,
> Java, etc.. if Firefox if I install and go with Debian
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions,

Contrary to most of the recommendations you'll get here (It's a Debian list 
after all), I highly suggest you go with PCLinuxOS instead of Debian.  I ALWAYS 
recommend PCLinuxOS to Windows users making their first foray into Linux 
territory as it's been specifically designed from the ground up particularly 
for those users.  It also has the added advantage of being distributed as a 
LiveCD.  So, you can boot it up, use it, see if everything works--hardware and 
software, before installing without affecting your Windows install.  Just RTFM 
thoroughly before installing: Linux isn't Windows.

   http://www.pclinuxos.com/

B


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Weaver]

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 06:43:54 -0500
Sam Vagni  wrote:

> Hello everyone,

Hello Sam,
> 
> I just want to go into Linux, coming from Windows XP. Just want to
> know if Debian is good to go with and learn then?

It's good to go with, depending on what you're looking for.
If you want to learn, there's no Linux distro better for the purpose,
but an easier introduction could be by downloading and installing LMDE
here: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1818 which many are switching to
from Ubuntu.

After playing with that for a while and you feel you would like to get
more 'hands on', by all means, install Debian.
> 
> Just to clear my doubts that head people saying about its'
> non-compatibility with the newest hardware and not having latest
> technology, is it a myth? Further, I hope I can use easily Flash,
> Java, etc.. if Firefox if I install and go with Debian

These days, there's no problem.
There's an assumption that because Debian supports old hardware, that's
all it does. This is misleading. Debian supports far more hardware than
it used to. The BSDs can still be a little bit picky, but that doesn't
apply here.
Regards,

Weaver.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions,
> SAM
> 
> 



-- 
"In a world without walls and fences, 
what need have we for Windows or Gates?"
-Anon.


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[John W. Foster]

On Thu, 2011-11-24 at 06:43 -0500, Sam Vagni wrote: 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I just want to go into Linux, coming from Windows XP. Just want to
> know if Debian is good to go with and learn then?
> 
> Just to clear my doubts that head people saying about its'
> non-compatibility with the newest hardware and not having latest
> technology, is it a myth? Further, I hope I can use easily Flash,
> Java, etc.. if Firefox if I install and go with Debian
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions,
> SAM
> 
> 

Hi Sam & welcome to the world of Linux. I have tried them all as well as
most versions of everything else out there that will run on my
machines..HeHe even Minuet. I just like to try out new stuff. However I
am not any kind of software developer, just a curious person, so when I
need to do a job that requires 'dependable' software, I use Debian. I
have been messing about with Linux since it was developed & required 20
plus floppy disks just to get it to run, so I speak from that vantage
point.
Some bits of advice:
Try out several distros of Linux that are run from a 'Live CD/DVD'. This
is much easier than doing an install and experimenting on your machine.
It also will allow you to test the software on 'your' hardware system.
These CD/DVD can be downloaded and burnt very easily or ordered over the
internet. Another upside of this process is that most of those live CDs
will allow you to actually install a running system to the machine they
are running on.
What ever distro you choose; install midnight commander. It will at some
point save your sanity. It is a superb console or xterminal file manager
& can be run as a superuser very easily. 
This mailing list gets repopulated from time to time with folks that are
willing to help with getting you out of most any situation that you run
into. Some are always polite and helpful, some are not so polite but
still helpful. Depends on how you ask a question & if you supply enough
info for them to answer. I sometimes, to this day, forget when I ask a
question, to do that & usually do not get the response I'm seeking. Look
at it from their standpoint. They are 'volunteering' their help as do
the software developers of Linux (some of which frequent this list) so
try not to waste their time. Always try to find your own answers before
you ask here. If you do not, the way you ask the question will show that
you did not. Always Read the manual, or dig on the web, & check the
mailing list archives, before asking your question. Remember that if you
do not get an answer, it likely just means the right person has not seen
the question. I have actually gone for several weeks before someone gave
or pointed me to the info that allows me to find the answer to a
question. Usually if its that tough or 'specific' you just have to keep
trying, without ranting.
NEVER post to the top of a message on this list.
Have fun!
John


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Anthony Campbell]

On 24 Nov 2011, Lisi wrote:
> 
> > but please tell me if KDE is the 
> > default of GNOME is the default desktop for debian?
> 
> GNOME is now the Debian default desktop.
> 

There are others, and of course you don't have to use a desktop manager
at all. Quite a few people, me included, prefer to use a window manager
and no desktop. But I suppose that, coming from Windows, you might feel lost
without one.

-- 
Anthony Campbell - a...@acampbell.org.uk 
Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux 
http://www.acampbell.org.uk - sample my ebooks at
http://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/acampbell


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Walter Hurry]

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:50:31 +, Lisi wrote:

> On Thursday 24 November 2011 14:57:06 Sam Vagni wrote:
>> I guess I should go (of course) with 64 since my processor supports
>> that (this I came to know)..
> 
> There is no "of course".  Sorry, I did not make myself clear.  With a 64
> bit processor, either a 32bit or 64bit system would work without
> problems.  There was a time when several things (like Flash!!) would not
> work in 64bit.  I haven't myself tried to run Adobe's version of Flash
> on a 64bit system, so do not know whether one now can.
> 
> It is not impossible that there may be some things that don't run in
> 64bit Linux.  I myself am running an x86 system with a 64bit processor,
> so cannot look and see for you.

Flash 64 works just fine here - and so does everything else. By the way, 
even in the old days before Flash 64 bit was available, it was quite easy 
to get Flash 32 bit working on 64 bit Linux. I see no reason for OP to 
avoid 64 bit Debian.



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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Lisi]

On Thursday 24 November 2011 14:57:06 Sam Vagni wrote:
> I guess I should go (of course) with 64 since my processor supports
> that (this I came to know)..

There is no "of course".  Sorry, I did not make myself clear.  With a 64 bit 
processor, either a 32bit or 64bit system would work without problems.  There 
was a time when several things (like Flash!!) would not work in 64bit.  I 
haven't myself tried to run Adobe's version of Flash on a 64bit system, so do 
not know whether one now can. 

It is not impossible that there may be some things that don't run in 64bit 
Linux.  I myself am running an x86 system with a 64bit processor, so cannot 
look and see for you.

Lisi


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[SM]

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:29:30AM -0500, Sam Vagni wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Walter Hurry  
> wrote:
> 
> > By the sound of it, you want  > amd64/bt-cd/debian-6.0.3-amd64-CD-1.iso.torrent>
> 
> Well thanks, I would start its download, but why these CDs are
> numbered from 1 to some more than 40 or 50...why so many in bulk?

Only the first one is needed to install Debian.

The rest include the whole of Debian main package repository.
Downloading them all is only sensible if you're installing in the
system that has no Internet connection and never will have. And even
then I doubt you need *every* CD (or DVD).

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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Lisi]

On Thursday 24 November 2011 14:57:06 Sam Vagni wrote:
> My printer is Samsung ML 1610.

I'm pretty sure that that is one I have installed for someone else.  I myself 
have the ML-1510, which is older, but similar.  At one stage I had to use 
the "wrong" driver with a printer, I don't remember which, that I was 
installing for someone else.  I just tried each similar sounding model until 
I came to one that worked OK!  But that was before the days of splix.  With 
splix you should be fine.

Lisi


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Sam Vagni]

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Walter Hurry  wrote:

> By the sound of it, you want  amd64/bt-cd/debian-6.0.3-amd64-CD-1.iso.torrent>

Well thanks, I would start its download, but why these CDs are
numbered from 1 to some more than 40 or 50...why so many in bulk?


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Walter Hurry]

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:57:06 -0500, Sam Vagni wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 8:51 AM, Walter Hurry 
> wrote:
> 
>> A little vague, I'm afraid. But not to worry, there are Linux
>> applications for most things. By the way, I'd strongly recommend (with
>> few exceptions) sticking to software which is in the repositories
>> (which are very comprehensive), rather than downloading stuff from the
>> 'net.
> 
> Oh well, I would be sticking with the recommendations of the OS only
> 
>> Are you planning to use wireless? If so, what is your wireless
>> card/chip?
> 
> Well right now - no, right now I have a wired connection.
> 
>> What graphics card/chips? These are the areas which occasionally give
>> problems for some.
> 
> Yeah sure, but it could really be silly but I don't know which graphics
> card/chips I am using...? Can you please tell me about it...But my
> speakers give sound whenever I play any song in Windows XP, however, I
> remember it used Real tek audio drivers when I installed
> windowsSpeakers are giving sound, still graphic card is different
> from it...? These questions could really be of very basic nature, I do
> understand, but computers was not my field ever
> 
>> As to the printer, you'll need to check the exact model, not just the
>> brand.
> 
> It is Samsung ML 1610.
> 
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 8:56 AM, Olivier BATARD 
> wrote:
> 
>> Yeah. Give a try to others like OpenSuse or Fedora and choose the one
>> you prefer, best testing by using !
> 
> Oh well, that's a good suggestion, trying each distro, but really much
> bandwidth is required for it , but I would try
> 
>> Then again, debian is your friend, because you can start with bash
>> easily. Gui are confusing for a start, old windows habits are pretty
>> anoying
> 
> Okay, so debian is again good.
> 
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Lisi  wrote:
> 
>> There is no reason why you should not use GUI for some time if you are
>> more comfortable with it.  I have been using Linux for 7 years and am
>> at home on the CLI, but there are still some things that I do in the
>> GUI.
>> [snip]
> 
> Yes, but the main concern (for which I am hopeful) is that I have to use
> Linux (either GUI or CLI, doesn’t matter). But I heard people saying
> that CLI gives better control (whatever be the reason, don't want to get
> into that debate...), so for me both new, at least GUI would be pretty
> easy, for sure..
> 
>> You are confusing two separate things:  Downloading a CD from which to
>> install Debian and installing all but the basic system from the net.
> 
>> If you have a connection which often disconnects, then you would be
>> better to do the initial installation of your system from an optical
>> medium:
>> preferably DVD if it is possible for you.  Download the first DVD by
>> torrent - that will give you a more than adequate system.
> 
> Well, I guess (not sure I am) but would CD work also...? DVD downloading
> would take a lot of time (yes internet problems here), I guess I am
> true. But I hope there is nothing (I mean no problem) in downloading CD,
> would I lose something in case if I go for CD?
> When searched for getting CD option for amd64 (which is also called
> Intel 64, as someone says here...), there are a lot of CDs with
> numbering from 1 to some 30 or even more, probably at,
> http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.3/amd64/bt-cd/ , but I don't
> know which ONE to download?
> 
>> Then just go with  the defaults.  You can start choosing things once
>> you are comfortable with Debian.
> 
> Okay.
> 
>> You will at one stage in the installation be asked which type of system
>> you want.  Make sure that standard and desktop are among the things
>> that have been selected by default.  They probably have, but I am not
>> sure at the moment.
> 
> Okay.
> 
>> GNOME is now the Debian default desktop.
> 
> Ah, well.
> 
>> No, you do not need to download a 64 bit system if you do not want to
>> do so. In my opinion, the jury is still out on whether life is easier
>> if you stick to x86 (32 bit) or go with 64 bit.  I will let those, who
>> have stronger opinions than I on which is preferable, tell you their
>> opinions.
> 
> I guess I should go (of course) with 64 since my processor supports that
> (this I came to know)..
> 
>> But ia64 is for Intel's Itanium range, so only use it if you have an
>> Itanium processor.  Otherwise you need AMD64 for a 64 bit processor,
>> even if your processor is Intel.
> 
> Oh I see. My processor is Intel's only not Intel's Itanium (since no
> where the word 'Itanium' was mentioned in properties of processor).
> 
>> Debian is made to sound much more daunting than it actually is.  Way
>> back in history when Debian and Linux were both young, Debian was for
>> experts only. The reputation has stuck with it, but the world has moved
>> on.  Don't worry about all the scary words and names that people use. 
>> Initially you will not need any of them.
> 
>> Get your initial system set

Re: Debian: A noob query

[Walter Hurry]

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 14:03:03 +, Lisi wrote:

> On Thursday 24 November 2011 13:51:52 Walter Hurry wrote:
>> As to the printer, you'll need to check the exact model, not just the
>> brand.
> 
> Samsung's splix can manage most Samsungs, just as HP's hpijs and hplip
> can manage most HP printers.  (But not necessarily all its all-in-ones.)

Ah, right, thanks. I didn't know that - I tend to stick with HP as I've 
always had excellent results with their printers and HPLIP.



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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Sam Vagni]

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 8:51 AM, Walter Hurry  wrote:

> A little vague, I'm afraid. But not to worry, there are Linux
> applications for most things. By the way, I'd strongly recommend (with
> few exceptions) sticking to software which is in the repositories (which
> are very comprehensive), rather than downloading stuff from the 'net.

Oh well, I would be sticking with the recommendations of the OS only

> Are you planning to use wireless? If so, what is your wireless card/chip?

Well right now - no, right now I have a wired connection.

> What graphics card/chips? These are the areas which occasionally give
> problems for some.

Yeah sure, but it could really be silly but I don't know which
graphics card/chips I am using...? Can you please tell me about
it...But my speakers give sound whenever I play any song in Windows
XP, however, I remember it used Real tek audio drivers when I
installed windowsSpeakers are giving sound, still graphic card is
different from it...? These questions could really be of very basic
nature, I do understand, but computers was not my field ever

> As to the printer, you'll need to check the exact model, not just the brand.

It is Samsung ML 1610.

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 8:56 AM, Olivier BATARD  wrote:

> Yeah. Give a try to others like OpenSuse or Fedora and choose the one
> you prefer, best testing by using !

Oh well, that's a good suggestion, trying each distro, but really much
bandwidth is required for it , but I would try

> Then again, debian is your friend, because you can start with bash
> easily. Gui are confusing for a start, old windows habits are pretty anoying

Okay, so debian is again good.

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Lisi  wrote:

> There is no reason why you should not use GUI for some time if you are more
> comfortable with it.  I have been using Linux for 7 years and am at home on
> the CLI, but there are still some things that I do in the GUI.
> [snip]

Yes, but the main concern (for which I am hopeful) is that I have to
use Linux (either GUI or CLI, doesn’t matter). But I heard people
saying that CLI gives better control (whatever be the reason, don't
want to get into that debate...), so for me both new, at least GUI
would be pretty easy, for sure..

> You are confusing two separate things:  Downloading a CD from which to install
> Debian and installing all but the basic system from the net.

> If you have a connection which often disconnects, then you would be better to
> do the initial installation of your system from an optical medium:
> preferably DVD if it is possible for you.  Download the first DVD by
> torrent - that will give you a more than adequate system.

Well, I guess (not sure I am) but would CD work also...? DVD
downloading would take a lot of time (yes internet problems here), I
guess I am true. But I hope there is nothing (I mean no problem) in
downloading CD, would I lose something in case if I go for CD?
When searched for getting CD option for amd64 (which is also called
Intel 64, as someone says here...), there are a lot of CDs with
numbering from 1 to some 30 or even more, probably at,
http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.3/amd64/bt-cd/ , but I don't
know which ONE to download?

> Then just go with  the defaults.  You can start choosing things once you are
> comfortable with Debian.

Okay.

> You will at one stage in the installation be asked which type of system you
> want.  Make sure that standard and desktop are among the things that have
> been selected by default.  They probably have, but I am not sure at the
> moment.

Okay.

> GNOME is now the Debian default desktop.

Ah, well.

> No, you do not need to download a 64 bit system if you do not want to do so.
> In my opinion, the jury is still out on whether life is easier if you stick
> to x86 (32 bit) or go with 64 bit.  I will let those, who have stronger
> opinions than I on which is preferable, tell you their opinions.

I guess I should go (of course) with 64 since my processor supports
that (this I came to know)..

> But ia64 is for Intel's Itanium range, so only use it if you have an Itanium
> processor.  Otherwise you need AMD64 for a 64 bit processor, even if your
> processor is Intel.

Oh I see. My processor is Intel's only not Intel's Itanium (since no
where the word 'Itanium' was mentioned in properties of processor).

> Debian is made to sound much more daunting than it actually is.  Way back in
> history when Debian and Linux were both young, Debian was for experts only.
> The reputation has stuck with it, but the world has moved on.  Don't worry
> about all the scary words and names that people use.  Initially you will not
> need any of them.

> Get your initial system set up and then ask questions if you need to do so.  I
> think that Firefox comes as standard with the GNOME desktop, if not then you
> will at some stage need to install it.

Okay.

> One thing to watch out for:  the debian version of Firefox, after a
> disag

Re: Debian: A noob query

[Lisi]

On Thursday 24 November 2011 13:51:52 Walter Hurry wrote:
> As to the printer, you'll need to check the exact
> model, not just the brand.

Samsung's splix can manage most Samsungs, just as HP's hpijs and hplip can 
manage most HP printers.  (But not necessarily all its all-in-ones.)

Lisi


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Lisi]

On Thursday 24 November 2011 13:25:28 Sam Vagni wrote:
> Well this is true that the real power is in cli and not in gui 

There is no reason why you should not use GUI for some time if you are more 
comfortable with it.  I have been using Linux for 7 years and am at home on 
the CLI, but there are still some things that I do in the GUI.
[snip]

> i am going to install debian from
> http://www.debian.org/CD/torrent-cd/ since here net often gets
> disconnected, so torrent is best,

You are confusing two separate things:  Downloading a CD from which to install 
Debian and installing all but the basic system from the net.

If you have a connection which often disconnects, then you would be better to 
do the initial installation of your system from an optical medium:  
preferably DVD if it is possible for you.  Download the first DVD by 
torrent - that will give you a more than adequate system.

Then just go with  the defaults.  You can start choosing things once you are 
comfortable with Debian.

You will at one stage in the installation be asked which type of system you 
want.  Make sure that standard and desktop are among the things that have 
been selected by default.  They probably have, but I am not sure at the 
moment.

> but please tell me if KDE is the 
> default of GNOME is the default desktop for debian?

GNOME is now the Debian default desktop.

> I am having x86_64 
> processor, so I guess i have to download 'amd64' CD or 'ia64' CD...,
> processor I am having is Intel's not amd's!

No, you do not need to download a 64 bit system if you do not want to do so.  
In my opinion, the jury is still out on whether life is easier if you stick 
to x86 (32 bit) or go with 64 bit.  I will let those, who have stronger 
opinions than I on which is preferable, tell you their opinions.

But ia64 is for Intel's Itanium range, so only use it if you have an Itanium 
processor.  Otherwise you need AMD64 for a 64 bit processor, even if your 
processor is Intel.

Debian is made to sound much more daunting than it actually is.  Way back in 
history when Debian and Linux were both young, Debian was for experts only.  
The reputation has stuck with it, but the world has moved on.  Don't worry 
about all the scary words and names that people use.  Initially you will not 
need any of them.

Get your initial system set up and then ask questions if you need to do so.  I 
think that Firefox comes as standard with the GNOME desktop, if not then you 
will at some stage need to install it.

One thing to watch out for:  the debian version of Firefox, after a 
disagreement with Mozilla over control and trademarks, is called Iceweasel.  
it is Firefox with most of the trademarks located and removed, and security 
under Debian's control.

Above all, do not be afraid to ask.  Google can also be useful!

Lisi



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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Olivier BATARD]

2011/11/24 Sam Vagni :
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Walter Hurry  wrote:
>
>> Debian is a fine distribution; but there are others too. By the way, of
>> course people here will extol the virtues of Debian - it is a Debian
>> mailing list after all.
>
> Ok, I see. That really I forgot to consider...! After all a fact it is!

Yeah. Give a try to others like OpenSuse or Fedora and choose the one
you prefer, best testing by using !

>
>> 1) Why are you looking to move to Linux?
>
> Windows is having more of security issues, it is not that robust as is
> Linux and we have to pay also! I heard of Linux having more security.
>
>> What do you want to do?
>
> Just want to learn Linux, the basics first and then to step up.

Then again, debian is your friend, because you can start with bash
easily. Gui are confusing for a start, old windows habits are pretty
anoying

>
>> You have mentioned web browsing and Flash. What else?
>
> Like I want to have everything in Linux, linux in everyday use since
> it is better... So my target is whatever I do, I should do in Linux
> (Debian or openSUSE or Fedor, whatever)
>
>> 2) What is your hardware (in detail) please? You may find it helpful to
>> do a web search on "Linux hardware" and spend a little time researching.
>
> Yeah sure, I am having processor x86_64, 250 GB Hard disk (SATA), 2 GB
> RAM, speakers and Samsung printer, the monitor begin LG and it is a
> desktop, for home but some office work also done (like documentation
> etc...).
>
> Thanks
>
>
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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Walter Hurry]

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 08:39:29 -0500, Sam Vagni wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Walter Hurry 
> wrote:
> 
>> Debian is a fine distribution; but there are others too. By the way, of
>> course people here will extol the virtues of Debian - it is a Debian
>> mailing list after all.
> 
> Ok, I see. That really I forgot to consider...! After all a fact it is!
> 
>> 1) Why are you looking to move to Linux?
> 
> Windows is having more of security issues, it is not that robust as is
> Linux and we have to pay also! I heard of Linux having more security.

Indeed; it is considerably more secure.
> 
>> What do you want to do?
> 
> Just want to learn Linux, the basics first and then to step up.
> 
>> You have mentioned web browsing and Flash. What else?
> 
> Like I want to have everything in Linux, linux in everyday use since it
> is better... So my target is whatever I do, I should do in Linux (Debian
> or openSUSE or Fedor, whatever)
> 
A little vague, I'm afraid. But not to worry, there are Linux 
applications for most things. By the way, I'd strongly recommend (with 
few exceptions) sticking to software which is in the repositories (which 
are very comprehensive), rather than downloading stuff from the 'net.

>> 2) What is your hardware (in detail) please? You may find it helpful to
>> do a web search on "Linux hardware" and spend a little time
>> researching.
> 
> Yeah sure, I am having processor x86_64, 250 GB Hard disk (SATA), 2 GB
> RAM, speakers and Samsung printer, the monitor begin LG and it is a
> desktop, for home but some office work also done (like documentation
> etc...).

Are you planning to use wireless? If so, what is your wireless card/chip? 
What graphics card/chips? These are the areas which occasionally give 
problems for some. As to the printer, you'll need to check the exact 
model, not just the brand.



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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Sam Vagni]

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Walter Hurry  wrote:

> Debian is a fine distribution; but there are others too. By the way, of
> course people here will extol the virtues of Debian - it is a Debian
> mailing list after all.

Ok, I see. That really I forgot to consider...! After all a fact it is!

> 1) Why are you looking to move to Linux?

Windows is having more of security issues, it is not that robust as is
Linux and we have to pay also! I heard of Linux having more security.

> What do you want to do?

Just want to learn Linux, the basics first and then to step up.

> You have mentioned web browsing and Flash. What else?

Like I want to have everything in Linux, linux in everyday use since
it is better... So my target is whatever I do, I should do in Linux
(Debian or openSUSE or Fedor, whatever)

> 2) What is your hardware (in detail) please? You may find it helpful to
> do a web search on "Linux hardware" and spend a little time researching.

Yeah sure, I am having processor x86_64, 250 GB Hard disk (SATA), 2 GB
RAM, speakers and Samsung printer, the monitor begin LG and it is a
desktop, for home but some office work also done (like documentation
etc...).

Thanks


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Walter Hurry]

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 06:43:54 -0500, Sam Vagni wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
> I just want to go into Linux, coming from Windows XP. Just want to know
> if Debian is good to go with and learn then?
> 
> Just to clear my doubts that head people saying about its'
> non-compatibility with the newest hardware and not having latest
> technology, is it a myth? Further, I hope I can use easily Flash, Java,
> etc.. if Firefox if I install and go with Debian

Debian is a fine distribution; but there are others too. By the way, of 
course people here will extol the virtues of Debian - it is a Debian 
mailing list after all.

But I'd like to focus on two other issues:

1) Why are you looking to move to Linux? What do you want to do? You have 
mentioned web browsing and Flash. What else?

2) What is your hardware (in detail) please? You may find it helpful to 
do a web search on "Linux hardware" and spend a little time researching.



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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Sam Vagni]

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 8:02 AM, Olivier BATARD  wrote:

> Clearly, I will suggest you Debian. Opensuse is great, really, but use
> rpm (AFAIK) and package and application managing can be a nightmare.
> Globally to choose a first linux distribution, don't rely on the gui
> or the screenshot you'll finds on the net. Rely on the work done by
> the packagers and developers. Debian is solid, user friendly (when you
> admit the power of bash :), I know that's hard when comes from
> Window$). Feel free to install a debian squeeze and use it, smash it
> and use internet resources, you'll find a lots of help here and on the
> web. So yes I'll recommend debian, you won't regret it, when console
> will not afraid you :) Because debian (Linux ?) unleash is power in
> shell, gui is just an option. My opinion.

Well this is true that the real power is in cli and not in gui and i
hope that debian would be a good start, may be a little typical for
me.

and apart from it, i am going to install debian from
http://www.debian.org/CD/torrent-cd/ since here net often gets
disconnected, so torrent is best, but please tell me if KDE is the
default of GNOME is the default desktop for debian? I am having x86_64
processor, so I guess i have to download 'amd64' CD or 'ia64' CD...,
processor I am having is Intel's not amd's!

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 7:50 AM, Andrew Wood  wrote:

> Probably because its not as well publicised as other distros, often the ones
> that shout the loudest arent the best. Plus Debian has been around a long
> time, and always had a bit of a reputation of being hard to setup, but that
> was in the past, in the last few years its come on so much in terms of ease
> of use with a new installer and so on.

> I would say its as easy as any other distro. 99.9% of everything youre ever
> likeley to need is in the official package repository as a .deb package. You
> can use the bundled GUI tools (Synaptic) to browse what there is and install
> it, or search on the web at http://packages.debian.org (useful sometimes for
> getting firmware packages via another machine to get your network card
> working) or you can use the command line tools:

> apt-get install packagename will download and install just the package
> specified but the installation may fail if it depends on other packages, or
> aptitude install packagename will do the same but also seamlessly download &
> install any other packages that it depends on

> if you have a .deb file which youve downloaded from the website you can
> install it with dpkg -i /path/to/packagename.deb

Yeah okay and thanks, I download first and then install. Hope
everything would go on smooth and okay

Thanks for the suggestion.


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Andrew Wood]

On 24/11/11 12:30, Sam Vagni wrote:


Debian - yeas I heard of its rock solid stability! But I have not
heard of newbies using it, seems typical for them, so as a newbie
would it not be that difficult...? I am after all not a geek user!


Probably because its not as well publicised as other distros, often the 
ones that shout the loudest arent the best. Plus Debian has been around 
a long time, and always had a bit of a reputation of being hard to 
setup, but that was in the past, in the last few years its come on so 
much in terms of ease of use with a new installer and so on.

you might need to manually install the fimware packages for some of your
hardware with Debian (its not installed by default) which you dont need to
do with other distros but its not difficult and the end result is worth it.

Lastly, I am confused, if using Debian and installing software is easy
or tough for noobs?

Thanks.


I would say its as easy as any other distro. 99.9% of everything youre 
ever likeley to need is in the official package repository as a .deb 
package. You can use the bundled GUI tools (Synaptic) to browse what 
there is and install it, or search on the web at 
http://packages.debian.org (useful sometimes for getting firmware 
packages via another machine to get your network card working) or you 
can use the command line tools:


apt-get install packagename will download and install just the package 
specified but the installation may fail if it depends on other packages, or
aptitude install packagename will do the same but also seamlessly 
download & install any other packages that it depends on


if you have a .deb file which youve downloaded from the website you can 
install it with dpkg -i /path/to/packagename.deb



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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Olivier BATARD]

2011/11/24 Sam Vagni :
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 7:39 AM, Olivier BATARD  wrote:
>
>> To be clear, installing package is very useful with aptitude and
>> generally apt. Try a man apt or a google search with apt and you'll
>> see that's very easy and intuitive ! But remember even if there is
>> some good guy, always use first the command line. That's my opinion.
>
> I am mailing you since I was much confused between openSUSE and debian
> only, my friend told me to use openSUSE and other friend told for
> Debian, so I guess I could ask you...

Clearly, I will suggest you Debian. Opensuse is great, really, but use
rpm (AFAIK) and package and application managing can be a nightmare.
Globally to choose a first linux distribution, don't rely on the gui
or the screenshot you'll finds on the net. Rely on the work done by
the packagers and developers. Debian is solid, user friendly (when you
admit the power of bash :), I know that's hard when comes from
Window$). Feel free to install a debian squeeze and use it, smash it
and use internet resources, you'll find a lots of help here and on the
web. So yes I'll recommend debian, you won't regret it, when console
will not afraid you :) Because debian (Linux ?) unleash is power in
shell, gui is just an option. My opinion.

>
> Thanks.
>


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Debian: A noob query

[Olivier BATARD]

2011/11/24 Sam Vagni :
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 7:06 AM, Andrew Wood  wrote:
>
>> Hi Sam
>
> Hello.
>
>> I would whole heartedly recommend Debian. The problem with the other distros
>> like Ubuntu, Fedora etc that try to be on the bleeding edge is that they
>> tend to be buggy (and often slower) and each time a new release come out
>> upgrading tends to break everything, and becasue they work on such a short
>> life cycle (6 months between releases no matter what) you have to keep
>> upgrading to get the latest security fixes etc but the 6 monthly deadline
>> means stuff gets released before its ready.  Theyre great distros for
>> developers who want to test out the latest technology but theyre not suited
>> for desktop 'everyday' use even though unfortunatly thats how they market
>> them, and I think Linux's reputation as a whole suffers as a result.
>
> Yeah, I think you are right, they are unstable and each time a newer
> version comes before anyone is addicted with the older one.
>
>> Debian is a rock solid distro, after many years of using Linux on servers
>> and the desktop and trying (and getting frustrated by) Fedora, Ubuntu &
>> Linux Mint I've settled on Debian and found it to be pure quality.
>
> Debian - yeas I heard of its rock solid stability! But I have not
> heard of newbies using it, seems typical for them, so as a newbie
> would it not be that difficult...? I am after all not a geek user!
>
>> Ive not had any problems with hardware compatability (unlike Linux Mint &
>> Fedora which Ive had headaches with to do with graphics) and as for not
>> having the latest technology, its not that out of date, and what would you
>> rather have - the absolute latest version which no one has tested (you're
>> the tester!) or a version slightly behind the cutting edge which has been
>> tried, tested and fixed?
>
> Yeah, the great thing with Debian might be that it is stable and bug
> free, so that's what the best part I guess.
>
>> With regards to Firefox & Flash, I run the binary version of both which you
>> can get from the firefox & adobe websites and they work together great.
>
> Okay.
>
>> i would avoid gnash (the free reverse engineered flash implementation that
>> debian and many linux distros ship) like the plague  - its buggy and
>> basically just doesnt work, in fact I would remove it as soon as youve
>> installed Debian (run    apt-get remove gnash     as root from the command
>> line).
>
> I don't know anything abt 'gnash', whatever be...But at least I am
> happy that Debian is so stable and includes only the bug free items in
> its package, the well tested before any integration that would
> definitely be a plus point.
>
>> you might need to manually install the fimware packages for some of your
>> hardware with Debian (its not installed by default) which you dont need to
>> do with other distros but its not difficult and the end result is worth it.
>
> Lastly, I am confused, if using Debian and installing software is easy
> or tough for noobs?

To be clear, installing package is very useful with aptitude and
generally apt. Try a man apt or a google search with apt and you'll
see that's very easy and intuitive ! But remember even if there is
some good guy, always use first the command line. That's my opinion.


>
> Thanks.
>
>
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>


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Olivier BATARD]

2011/11/24 Sam Vagni :
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 6:57 AM, Olivier BATARD  wrote:
>
>> But to answer directly, yes debian is a good start because, in my
>> opinion apt make the difference, the package manager is so useful. Try
>> do install a vm with the squeeze net install cd
>> http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst and feel free to get some help
>> here anytime. Happy to help a new debian user.
>
> Yeah thanks for the information. But I didn't understand, what does
> this 'vm

Sorry for the vm acronym, I meant virtual machine, You can try  with
no risk  to install Debian on an virtual machine with virtual box on
windows for a start : https://www.virtualbox.org/ with a vm, you can
try all you want, crash it and restore it, all noob incident with no
matters :)

Debian can be installed with a light boot cd, the latest package will
be retrieve by the debian repository.

You have two cd, net install large which is ~180 mo and the business
card format 20 - 50 mo.

Have a good install :)


 with the squeeze net install cd' means, is it small in size?
> I have to use for the desktop in my home...
>
>
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>
>


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Sam Vagni]

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 7:06 AM, Andrew Wood  wrote:

> Hi Sam

Hello.

> I would whole heartedly recommend Debian. The problem with the other distros
> like Ubuntu, Fedora etc that try to be on the bleeding edge is that they
> tend to be buggy (and often slower) and each time a new release come out
> upgrading tends to break everything, and becasue they work on such a short
> life cycle (6 months between releases no matter what) you have to keep
> upgrading to get the latest security fixes etc but the 6 monthly deadline
> means stuff gets released before its ready.  Theyre great distros for
> developers who want to test out the latest technology but theyre not suited
> for desktop 'everyday' use even though unfortunatly thats how they market
> them, and I think Linux's reputation as a whole suffers as a result.

Yeah, I think you are right, they are unstable and each time a newer
version comes before anyone is addicted with the older one.

> Debian is a rock solid distro, after many years of using Linux on servers
> and the desktop and trying (and getting frustrated by) Fedora, Ubuntu &
> Linux Mint I've settled on Debian and found it to be pure quality.

Debian - yeas I heard of its rock solid stability! But I have not
heard of newbies using it, seems typical for them, so as a newbie
would it not be that difficult...? I am after all not a geek user!

> Ive not had any problems with hardware compatability (unlike Linux Mint &
> Fedora which Ive had headaches with to do with graphics) and as for not
> having the latest technology, its not that out of date, and what would you
> rather have - the absolute latest version which no one has tested (you're
> the tester!) or a version slightly behind the cutting edge which has been
> tried, tested and fixed?

Yeah, the great thing with Debian might be that it is stable and bug
free, so that's what the best part I guess.

> With regards to Firefox & Flash, I run the binary version of both which you
> can get from the firefox & adobe websites and they work together great.

Okay.

> i would avoid gnash (the free reverse engineered flash implementation that
> debian and many linux distros ship) like the plague  - its buggy and
> basically just doesnt work, in fact I would remove it as soon as youve
> installed Debian (run    apt-get remove gnash     as root from the command
> line).

I don't know anything abt 'gnash', whatever be...But at least I am
happy that Debian is so stable and includes only the bug free items in
its package, the well tested before any integration that would
definitely be a plus point.

> you might need to manually install the fimware packages for some of your
> hardware with Debian (its not installed by default) which you dont need to
> do with other distros but its not difficult and the end result is worth it.

Lastly, I am confused, if using Debian and installing software is easy
or tough for noobs?

Thanks.


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Sam Vagni]

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 6:57 AM, Olivier BATARD  wrote:

> But to answer directly, yes debian is a good start because, in my
> opinion apt make the difference, the package manager is so useful. Try
> do install a vm with the squeeze net install cd
> http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst and feel free to get some help
> here anytime. Happy to help a new debian user.

Yeah thanks for the information. But I didn't understand, what does
this 'vm with the squeeze net install cd' means, is it small in size?
I have to use for the desktop in my home...


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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Andrew Wood]

Hi Sam

I would whole heartedly recommend Debian. The problem with the other 
distros like Ubuntu, Fedora etc that try to be on the bleeding edge is 
that they tend to be buggy (and often slower) and each time a new 
release come out upgrading tends to break everything, and becasue they 
work on such a short life cycle (6 months between releases no matter 
what) you have to keep upgrading to get the latest security fixes etc 
but the 6 monthly deadline means stuff gets released before its ready.  
Theyre great distros for developers who want to test out the latest 
technology but theyre not suited for desktop 'everyday' use even though 
unfortunatly thats how they market them, and I think Linux's reputation 
as a whole suffers as a result.



Debian is a rock solid distro, after many years of using Linux on 
servers and the desktop and trying (and getting frustrated by) Fedora, 
Ubuntu & Linux Mint I've settled on Debian and found it to be pure quality.


Ive not had any problems with hardware compatability (unlike Linux Mint 
& Fedora which Ive had headaches with to do with graphics) and as for 
not having the latest technology, its not that out of date, and what 
would you rather have - the absolute latest version which no one has 
tested (you're the tester!) or a version slightly behind the cutting 
edge which has been tried, tested and fixed?


With regards to Firefox & Flash, I run the binary version of both which 
you can get from the firefox & adobe websites and they work together great.


i would avoid gnash (the free reverse engineered flash implementation 
that debian and many linux distros ship) like the plague  - its buggy 
and basically just doesnt work, in fact I would remove it as soon as 
youve installed Debian (runapt-get remove gnash as root from the 
command line).


you might need to manually install the fimware packages for some of your 
hardware with Debian (its not installed by default) which you dont need 
to do with other distros but its not difficult and the end result is 
worth it.


Hope that helps
Andrew


 On 24/11/11 11:43, Sam Vagni wrote:

Hello everyone,

I just want to go into Linux, coming from Windows XP. Just want to
know if Debian is good to go with and learn then?

Just to clear my doubts that head people saying about its'
non-compatibility with the newest hardware and not having latest
technology, is it a myth? Further, I hope I can use easily Flash,
Java, etc.. if Firefox if I install and go with Debian

Thanks for the suggestions,
SAM





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Re: Debian: A noob query

[Olivier BATARD]

2011/11/24 Sam Vagni :
> Hello everyone,
>
> I just want to go into Linux, coming from Windows XP. Just want to
> know if Debian is good to go with and learn then?

Debian has a large community and a great development, testing and
packaging organization. Ubuntu is great too by the way, maybe easier
for some point at the beginning.

And have apt which is a very good friend for user :)


>
> Just to clear my doubts that head people saying about its'
> non-compatibility with the newest hardware and not having latest
> technology, is it a myth?

Yes and no. Depending on the debian version you're using newest
hardware could require newest version of kernel. But compiling kernel
in debian is not so hard ;)

 Further, I hope I can use easily Flash,
> Java, etc.. if Firefox if I install and go with Debian
All of that are available on Debian (I'm using It) but sometimes the
name (the project) is not the same firefox ---> ice weasel

But to answer directly, yes debian is a good start because, in my
opinion apt make the difference, the package manager is so useful. Try
do install a vm with the squeeze net install cd
http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst and feel free to get some help
here anytime. Happy to help a new debian user.


>
> Thanks for the suggestions,
> SAM
>
>
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>
>


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Debian: A noob query

[Sam Vagni]

Hello everyone,

I just want to go into Linux, coming from Windows XP. Just want to
know if Debian is good to go with and learn then?

Just to clear my doubts that head people saying about its'
non-compatibility with the newest hardware and not having latest
technology, is it a myth? Further, I hope I can use easily Flash,
Java, etc.. if Firefox if I install and go with Debian

Thanks for the suggestions,
SAM


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