Re: [OT]: May Day
On Tue, 3 May 2016 15:32:07 +0300 Piyavkin wrote: > Explaining that since using «bad words» > is being a nazi Just to clarify this again, I never claimed that you or anyone else here is a nazi. > For your information: > > /American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition/ > parasite — > a. One who habitually takes advantage of the generosity of others > without making any useful return. > b. One who lives off and flatters the rich; a sycophant.etc. (etc.) Not sure though how these definitions are supposed to match drug lords like Mr. Escobar or socially disadvantaged and/or outcast people ("lumpenproletariat"). > You may write to the language authorities and explain them your theory > about Nazi-speech Unfortunately this is not a mere theory. In case you want to learn about nazi-speech, there are sources available where you can read about people being classified as "parasites" and the like, e.g. http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/ https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/holo.html Of course there's also tons of contemporary material, but I won't provide any links pointing there. In case you really want to read that kind of stuff, it is certainly easy to discover. > and how to use English properly. I am aware that there may be subtle differences between the english and german tone of a word like "parasite" and acknowledged that in my first post. Since (as several people have already ponited out) this discussion has gone far off the rail, I consider this thread, as far as I am concerned, as "closed". Best regards Michael .-.. .. ...- . .-.. --- -. --. .- -. -.. .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-. Even historians fail to learn from history -- they repeat the same mistakes. -- John Gill, "Patterns of Force", stardate 2534.7
Re: [OT]: May Day
On 03.05.2016 16:34, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Tuesday 03 May 2016 14:22:26 Piyavkin wrote: On 03.05.2016 02:21, Lisi Reisz wrote: … So it is all a bit circular!! But I find the concepts of "International Workers Day" and "the proletariat" intrinsically unpleasant. I am in sympathy with Eric Blair (aka George Orwell). It is as wrong to murder someone for being an aristo as it is to murder him for being a peasant. Oh, my!.. I've sent Hello and best wishes on occasion to fellow people. All that was about expression of solidarity. And intended to be lean and short, like: a) have a nice day! b) have a nice day too; c) done. In case someone may be irritated by relatively irrelevant posts or just not interested the topic was marked as [OT] for filtering purposes (Subject : contains : [OT] --> Delete from POP Server). I've received 2 types of responses: 1. People have sent their best wishes to me in return (mostly in private, because many are already too terrorized to express their opinion openly). 2. Some others on the basis of «deep» linguistic analysis have detected here some presence of Nazi and, out of a blue, bloody intention to murder (by best wishes, I guess). What's wrong with you, guys? Best regards, Dmitry Piyavkin That was sent off-list and should not have been quoted here. Presumably Dan forwarded it to you. No, the letter have came from list: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/05/msg00138.html Solidarity? With whom? Oh, yes, The Workers. I've explicitly explained with whom. Twice. It was utterly innocent and unoffending. And I'm amazed how you guys found pretext to turn that small topic into a flame. So, working people are now kind of terrorists, huh? Read the history of the French Revolution. Or the Stalinist purges. Lisi, do it yourself, please. French Revolution was bourgeois one. So capitalists should pay the bill, I guess. And what kind of logic is it? So, if colonial Europe had performed all those uncountable atrocities all over the world and gave birth to Fascism we now should treat Europeans as spawns of evil? Politics does not belong here, Yeah, but you do it regularly. Discussing, by example, politcorrect forms of addressing audience with proper gender connotations. I personally have nothing against it or against other touch of OT subjects (like movies, personal stories, etc.). There is no human interaction without human part in it. The FOSS as itself has significant political dimension. Why we shouldn't discuss it? So, I guess the problem is not in the politics as itself. The problem is in intolerance to other's opinion and desire to silence it under any ostensible pretexts (politics as a dirty and unmentionable subject). Mainstream propaganda encourage the sectarian attitude to neutralize p2p communications while they have full control over mass media. So the people which opinion differs from PoV of Ministry of Truth should be isolated, marginalized, express their views only somewhere in closed underground communities and publicly be in shame as some perverts, as if that are them who's starting wars, keeping their hands deep in other's pockets, buying elections and parliaments, lobbying laws, polluting lands, financing military contractors whose hostile actions devastate whole regions with results in hundreds of thousands dead and in millions displaced as refugees (and doing so they are even pointing fingers at century old Stalin, bah!), etc. The thread was auto-extinguishing by its nature and explicitly marked as off-topic. You might easily ignore it if you don't share the opinion, you might easily filter it in your mail client. And it would be finished in 2 days with a few replies and then be silently removed as outdated OT. No, you've found funny linguistic excuses for phony accusations, blown the flame about nothing, just to cry in the end «Enough already!» Why? Because you fear that other people are… well… not so smart and sharp as you are, they may fall for treacherous speeches of some tempting snake, and should be protected at any cost. Constant vigilance! We're on a mission. Please, give the people to decide by themselves. People are not stupid. If subject rise no interest, it will be ignored, will die by itself, and never be repeated again. [!] Here I stop and quit all the Nazi, Stalin, innovative politic linguistics and all the crap, which I didn't intend to mention at all. Please, start your own thread for that. Or follow your own advice and stop the insinuations. but nor do ad hominem attacks. What attacks? Whom attacking whom? If you feel that I'm attacking you (but not your actions), I sincerely apologise and will never do that again. What you, guys, are even doing in the thread if you believe that wishing best each other and expressing solidarity with fellow people means divisiveness, call to a murder, and all the horrible things you called it? It's ridiculous. Best rega
Re: [OT]: May Day
Piyavkin writes: > What's wrong with you, guys? Divisive associations. "Solidarity", for example, is almost always directed against some group of perceived enemies. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: [OT]: May Day
On Tuesday 03 May 2016 14:22:26 Piyavkin wrote: > On 03.05.2016 02:21, Lisi Reisz wrote: > > … > > So it is all a bit circular!! But I find the concepts of "International > > Workers Day" and "the proletariat" intrinsically unpleasant. I am in > > sympathy with Eric Blair (aka George Orwell). It is as wrong to murder > > someone for being an aristo as it is to murder him for being a peasant. > > Oh, my!.. > > > I've sent Hello and best wishes on occasion to fellow people. All that > was about expression of solidarity. And intended to be lean and short, > like: a) have a nice day! b) have a nice day too; c) done. In case > someone may be irritated by relatively irrelevant posts or just not > interested the topic was marked as [OT] for filtering purposes (Subject > > : contains : [OT] --> Delete from POP Server). > > I've received 2 types of responses: > 1. People have sent their best wishes to me in return (mostly in > private, because many are already too terrorized to express their > opinion openly). > 2. Some others on the basis of «deep» linguistic analysis have detected > here some presence of Nazi and, out of a blue, bloody intention to > murder (by best wishes, I guess). > > What's wrong with you, guys? > > > Best regards, > Dmitry Piyavkin That was sent off-list and should not have been quoted here. Presumably Dan forwarded it to you. Solidarity? With whom? Oh, yes, The Workers. Read the history of the French Revolution. Or the Stalinist purges. Politics does not belong here, but nor do ad hominem attacks. Lisi
Re: [OT]: May Day
On 05/03/2016 08:34 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote: > Politics does not belong here +1 Enough already. -- Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682) "After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
Re: [OT]: May Day
On 03.05.2016 16:05, John Hasler wrote: Piyavkin writes: You're right. I've already sent to Pablo Escobar and to local criminal lords my letters with apologies. Explaining that since using «bad words» is being a nazi, we shouldn't call them criminals and parasites anymore. Then call them criminals. The word "parasite* usually refers to people who have committed no crimes but are *in the speaker's opinion* parasites. I do. Please, reread. Best regards, Dmitry Piyavkin
Re: [OT]: May Day
On 03.05.2016 02:21, Lisi Reisz wrote: … So it is all a bit circular!! But I find the concepts of "International Workers Day" and "the proletariat" intrinsically unpleasant. I am in sympathy with Eric Blair (aka George Orwell). It is as wrong to murder someone for being an aristo as it is to murder him for being a peasant. Oh, my!.. I've sent Hello and best wishes on occasion to fellow people. All that was about expression of solidarity. And intended to be lean and short, like: a) have a nice day! b) have a nice day too; c) done. In case someone may be irritated by relatively irrelevant posts or just not interested the topic was marked as [OT] for filtering purposes (Subject : contains : [OT] --> Delete from POP Server). I've received 2 types of responses: 1. People have sent their best wishes to me in return (mostly in private, because many are already too terrorized to express their opinion openly). 2. Some others on the basis of «deep» linguistic analysis have detected here some presence of Nazi and, out of a blue, bloody intention to murder (by best wishes, I guess). What's wrong with you, guys? Best regards, Dmitry Piyavkin
Re: [OT]: May Day
Piyavkin writes: > You're right. I've already sent to Pablo Escobar and to local criminal > lords my letters with apologies. Explaining that since using «bad > words» is being a nazi, we shouldn't call them criminals and parasites > anymore. Then call them criminals. The word "parasite* usually refers to people who have committed no crimes but are *in the speaker's opinion* parasites. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: [OT]: May Day
On 03.05.2016 01:50, Michael Lange wrote: On Mon, 02 May 2016 14:52:26 -0500 John Hasler wrote: Michael Lange writes: I would by the way strongly request to dismiss the use of the word "parasite" when speaking about human beings, since - speaking frankly - this sounds a lot like nazi-speech So does any classification of people into "them" and "us". To some extent, but I feel classifying people into "us humans" and "them animals" is even a lot worse. Regards Michael .-.. .. ...- . .-.. --- -. --. .- -. -.. .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-. No one wants war. -- Kirk, "Errand of Mercy", stardate 3201.7 . You're right. I've already sent to Pablo Escobar and to local criminal lords my letters with apologies. Explaining that since using «bad words» is being a nazi, we shouldn't call them criminals and parasites anymore. Now they should be named «socially handicapable alternative entrepreneurs». Someone of them has sent me back a sample sachet with a diacetylmorphine, and now I've got to go. Gonna to be busy for a while. Michael, let's call Voldemort — Voldemort and do not profane serious things with silly word playing games. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc For your information: /American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition/ parasite — a. One who habitually takes advantage of the generosity of others without making any useful return. b. One who lives off and flatters the rich; a sycophant. /Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition/ parasite — 2. a person who habitually lives at the expense of others; sponger 3. (formerly) a sycophant /Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary/ parasite — 2. a person who receives support or advantage from another without giving any useful or proper return, as one who lives on the hospitality of others. 3. (esp. in ancient Greece) a person receiving free meals in return for amusing conversation or flattery. The meaning «An organism that lives and feeds on or in an organism of a different species and causes harm to its host» in most dictionaries marked as special term of Biology. Which is probably derivative from traditional uses cited above (because biology is a relatively young science). And we even didn't discussed any biological subject to do such leaps in interpretations, we talked literally about those who «receives from others without giving any useful or proper return». You may write to the language authorities and explain them your theory about Nazi-speech and how to use English properly. Best regards, Dmitry Piyavkin
Re: [OT]: May Day
Hi, Dan, I have come off list because I find all the politics of this very unpleasant. But I liked your response (inaccurate as it has turned out to be!!!) and felt that it deserved a reply. On Sunday 01 May 2016 18:58:57 Dan Hitt wrote: > On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote: > > On Sunday 01 May 2016 18:13:38 Dan Hitt wrote: > >> (And wasn't May day an American idea originally, which > >> our ruling class wanted to tone down?) > > > > I am speechless!! > > > > "The earliest May Day celebrations appeared in pre-Christian times, with > > the Floralia, festival of Flora" Etc. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Day > > > > > > Lisi > > hahahahaha, my bad for sure Lisi!! > > I should have said "Labor Day" instead of "May Day", though. > > Because in fact May 1 was chosen as the date for Labor Day (or > International Worker's Day) because of the murder of four striking workers > May 4, 1887 in Chicago. Not according to Wikipedia. Ah! I see. It is more complicated than that. You confused me by confusing Labor Day and International Workers Day. See my trail below!!! One even has to distinguish between Labor Day and Labour Day!! So it is all a bit circular!! But I find the concepts of "International Workers Day" and "the proletariat" intrinsically unpleasant. I am in sympathy with Eric Blair (aka George Orwell). It is as wrong to murder someone for being an aristo as it is to murder him for being a peasant. Lisi --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Day History[edit] Beginning in the late 19th century, as the trade union and labor movements grew, different groups of trade unionists chose a variety of days on which to celebrate labor. In the United States and Canada, a September holiday, called Labor or Labour Day, was first proposed in the 1880s. In 1882, Matthew Maguire, a machinist, first proposed a Labor Day holiday while serving as secretary of the Central Labor Union (CLU) of New York.[2] Some maintain that Peter J. McGuire of the American Federation of Labor put forward the first proposal in May 1882,[1] after witnessing the annual labour festival held in Toronto, Canada.[3] In 1887 Oregon became the first state of the United States to make Labor Day an official public holiday. By the time it became an official federal holiday in 1894, thirty U.S. states officially celebrated Labor Day.[1] Thus by 1887 in North America, Labor Day was an established, official holiday.[4] Following the deaths of workers at the hands of United States Army and United States Marshals Service during the Pullman Strike of 1894, the United States Congress unanimously voted to approve legislation to make Labor Day a national holiday and President Grover Cleveland signed it into law six days after the end of the strike.[5] Cleveland supported the creation of the national holiday in an attempt to shore up support among trade unions following the Pullman Strike.[6] ** The date of May 1 (an ancient European holiday known as May Day) was an alternative date, celebrated then (and now) as International Workers Day, but President Cleveland was concerned that observance of Labor Day on May 1 would encourage Haymarket-style protests and would strengthen socialist and anarchist movements that, though distinct from one another, had rallied to commemorate the Haymarket Affair in International Workers' Day.[6][7] All U.S. states, the District of Columbia, and the United States territories have made Labor Day a statutory holiday. 8 BUT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Day International Workers' Day, also known as Labour Day in some places, is a celebration of labourers and the working classes that is promoted by the international labour movement, socialists, communists and anarchists and occurs every year on May Day, 1 May, an European spring holiday since the late 19th and early 20th century.[1][2] The date was chosen for International Workers' Day by the Second International, a pan-national organization of socialist and communist political parties, to commemorate the Haymarket affair, which occurred in Chicago on 4 May 1886.[2] The 1904 International Socialist Conference in Amsterdam, the Sixth Conference of the Second International, called on "all Social Democratic Party organisations and trade unions of all countries to demonstrate energetically on the First of May for the legal establishment of the 8-hour day, for the class demands of the proletariat, and for universal peace."[3] Being a traditional European spring celebration, May Day is a national public holiday in many countries, but in only some of those countries is it celebrated specifically as "Labour Day" or "International Workers' Day". Some countries celebrate a Labour Day on other dates significant to them, such as the United States, which celebra
Re: [OT]: May Day
On Mon, 02 May 2016 14:52:26 -0500 John Hasler wrote: > Michael Lange writes: > > I would by the way strongly request to dismiss the use of the word > > "parasite" when speaking about human beings, since - speaking frankly > > - this sounds a lot like nazi-speech > > So does any classification of people into "them" and "us". To some extent, but I feel classifying people into "us humans" and "them animals" is even a lot worse. Regards Michael .-.. .. ...- . .-.. --- -. --. .- -. -.. .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-. No one wants war. -- Kirk, "Errand of Mercy", stardate 3201.7
Re: [OT]: May Day
Piyavkin writes: > Why you say such about those noble and worthy gentlemen? Well, of course, the epithet applies only to politicians in the other parties. The ones in mine are all noble and worthy gentlemen selflessly dedicated to the Cause. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: [OT]: May Day
Michael Lange writes: > I would by the way strongly request to dismiss the use of the word > "parasite" when speaking about human beings, since - speaking frankly > - this sounds a lot like nazi-speech So does any classification of people into "them" and "us". -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: [OT]: May Day
Hi, Piyavkin wrote: > Have you said «Karl Marx»?!.. Oh, no!.. Lisi will get you! ) I quote him as sincere contributor to political and economical theory. Everybody, who pays Value Added Tax, pays for a thing invented by Marx: The Added Value which - according to his theory - goes into the pockets of the capital owner. (Thus the consumer pays a tax on it.) Charlie was not the bad guy in the history of real existing socialism. He had no power to defend. So he needed no oppression mechanisms. > What's the sports, by the way? Programming in C. :)) (A relative of Snooker and Chess. It can be quite exhausting.) > As to hardship and boredom: It's what gets paid according to classical protestant work ethics. (According to the bible it is the penalty for eating apples.) Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: [OT]: May Day
On Mon, 2 May 2016 20:32:17 +0300 Piyavkin wrote: > And by mentioned «professional parasites and criminals» I meant in the > first place exactly those people who live by criminal, fraud, > deception, and literally at other's expense. Which is by definition a > description of lumpen-proletariat (declassified) stratum. One could however very well argue that your above definition applies much better to a certain kind of economically very successful people than to what you call "lumpen-proletariat". I would by the way strongly request to dismiss the use of the word "parasite" when speaking about human beings, since - speaking frankly - this sounds a lot like nazi-speech, though I of course don't want to insinuate that anything like that was intended by you. Maybe it is just that here in germany my ears are more sensitive to this kind of speech. Regards Michael .-.. .. ...- . .-.. --- -. --. .- -. -.. .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-. Respect is a rational process -- McCoy, "The Galileo Seven", stardate 2822.3
Re: [OT]: May Day
On 02.05.2016 20:48, John Hasler wrote: Piyavkin writes: But, I wonder, /whom/ exactly did you bear in mind when you triggered «politics detection» alert at words «professional parasites»? ) ...Ouch! Politicians, most likely. All of them. It's not true, of course. Many of them are amateur parasites. No way, John! Why you say such about those noble and worthy gentlemen? Lisi may not think like that! Best regards, Dmitry Piyavkin
Re: [OT]: May Day
On 02.05.2016 19:05, Thomas Schmitt wrote: Hi, Haines Brown wrote: Incidentally, I'm not suggesting that FOSS is crypto-socialist. Piyavkin wrote: No, but it is new growing relations of production. It's in no way crypto, but quite near to the vision of Karl Marx in the 19th century. He expected it to happen for classic economy after socialism succeeded and evolved into true communism. Google found me a nice summary in german language: http://stattkapitalismus.blogsport.de/2008/11/12/665jeder-nach-seinen-faehigkeiten-jedem-nach-seinen-beduerfnissen/ which is obviously by a person not aware of free software. It quotes Marx' book "Das Kapital", 1867: "Stellen wir uns endlich, zur Abwechslung, einen Verein freier Menschen vor, ..." which i translate as: "Let us imagine finally, just for a change, a club of free humans, who work with commonly used means of production and self-confidently spend their many individual powers of work as a united work effort for society. [...] The result of the club's work is a product of society. In part it serves in turn as means of production. Another part is consumed by the members as subsistence." He did not imagine highly valuable objects which can be copied at nearly no cost and can be used by affordable means. He only predicts that the relation between production and consumption will change but then goes on to describe a non-communist structure of work merits and right to consume. In our world, even Linus Torvalds gets more from GNU/Linux than he gave. Marx also did not imagine that a (from his view) ideal society would emerge on top of capitalism rather than replacing it. Have you said «Karl Marx»?!.. Oh, no!.. Lisi will get you! ) If be serious, such changes are going on not only in software industry. And I don't think it'll be finished even in the near future which may be surprising in the end. That is a long and incremental process. But it is a huge subject to discuss in an OT thread in a mail list. Such subjects should be debated in form of articles in academic manner, I believe [but try to rise the subject in an economics community, and their political police will get you too]. Though it may be interesting for you to look also at the Schumpeter's theory of development. He's usually considered as an opponent to Marx, but their theories in fact pretty complimentary. In real life i do not get my food for free. Housing is expensive. Even the preconditions for linuxing cost monthly money. But during my life there were only a few months of what i'd call work. I earn my keep by selling myself doing my favorite sports. Nevertheless i am aware that i am swimming as grease drop on a watery soup of hardship and boredom. Why don't you consider prof sport activity as a labour? Especially if you earn by that. What's the sports, by the way? As to hardship and boredom: first is an objective condition, second is a subjective attitude and, in my view, should be avoided as deadly sin whatever situation you happened to be in. Life is too damn short to be bored. Have a nice day :) Thomas Best wishes to you too! Best regards, Dmitry Piyavkin
Re: [OT]: May Day
Piyavkin writes: > But, I wonder, /whom/ exactly did you bear in mind when you triggered > «politics detection» alert at words «professional parasites»? ) > ...Ouch! Politicians, most likely. All of them. It's not true, of course. Many of them are amateur parasites. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: [OT]: May Day
On 02.05.2016 17:16, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Monday 02 May 2016 15:07:29 Piyavkin wrote: professional parasites OUCH! Can we keep politics out of this - be it far left or far right? This list is not the place. Lisi Hi, Lisi! Actually, I'm not intended to elaborate the o-topic any further beyond the Worker's Day congratulations. And by mentioned «professional parasites and criminals» I meant in the first place exactly those people who live by criminal, fraud, deception, and literally at other's expense. Which is by definition a description of lumpen-proletariat (declassified) stratum. But, I wonder, /whom/ exactly did you bear in mind when you triggered «politics detection» alert at words «professional parasites»? ) ...Ouch! Best regards, Dmitry Piyavkin
Re: [OT]: May Day
Hi, Haines Brown wrote: > > Incidentally, I'm not suggesting that FOSS is crypto-socialist. Piyavkin wrote: > No, but it is new growing relations of production. It's in no way crypto, but quite near to the vision of Karl Marx in the 19th century. He expected it to happen for classic economy after socialism succeeded and evolved into true communism. Google found me a nice summary in german language: http://stattkapitalismus.blogsport.de/2008/11/12/665jeder-nach-seinen-faehigkeiten-jedem-nach-seinen-beduerfnissen/ which is obviously by a person not aware of free software. It quotes Marx' book "Das Kapital", 1867: "Stellen wir uns endlich, zur Abwechslung, einen Verein freier Menschen vor, ..." which i translate as: "Let us imagine finally, just for a change, a club of free humans, who work with commonly used means of production and self-confidently spend their many individual powers of work as a united work effort for society. [...] The result of the club's work is a product of society. In part it serves in turn as means of production. Another part is consumed by the members as subsistence." He did not imagine highly valuable objects which can be copied at nearly no cost and can be used by affordable means. He only predicts that the relation between production and consumption will change but then goes on to describe a non-communist structure of work merits and right to consume. In our world, even Linus Torvalds gets more from GNU/Linux than he gave. Marx also did not imagine that a (from his view) ideal society would emerge on top of capitalism rather than replacing it. In real life i do not get my food for free. Housing is expensive. Even the preconditions for linuxing cost monthly money. But during my life there were only a few months of what i'd call work. I earn my keep by selling myself doing my favorite sports. Nevertheless i am aware that i am swimming as grease drop on a watery soup of hardship and boredom. Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: [OT]: May Day
On 01.05.2016 21:27, Haines Brown wrote: Incidentally, I'm not suggesting that FOSS is crypto-socialist. Haines No, but it is new growing relations of production. Best regards, Dmitry Piyavkin
Re: [OT]: May Day
On Monday 02 May 2016 15:07:29 Piyavkin wrote: > professional > parasites OUCH! Can we keep politics out of this - be it far left or far right? This list is not the place. Lisi
Re: [OT]: May Day
On 01.05.2016 18:39, Nate Bargmann wrote: * On 2016 01 May 08:23 -0500, John Hasler wrote: Hans Vogelsberger writes: Why workers only? There are other humans, too. Class struggle. I struggled to pay attention in social studies class way back in grade school 40+ years ago. Does that count? ;-) Happy May Day from the workers paradise of a muddy farm somewhere in northern Kansas. - Nate And special Best Wishes come to — Nate from Kansas! [a soft but energetic banjo music slowly fade in in the background] Thanks, Nate! ) Best regards, Dmitry Piyavkin
Re: [OT]: May Day
On 01.05.2016 15:26, Hans Vogelsberger wrote: Am Sat, 30 Apr 2016 21:49:06 +0300 schrieb Piyavkin : Congratulations with International Worker's Day to all the working (in FOSS industry and at all) people! ) Have a nice day! Best regards, Dmitry Piyavkin Why workers only? There are other humans, too. Hans, I've actually addressed all good people, since wast majority of the humankind (up to 99%, I guess, except classes of professional parasites and criminals) lives by working and serving other's in some useful social roles. And actually do not counterpose but complement each other. I've consciously said «working people», including here all labour classes. Yeah, I understand that it sounds funny and the humankind doesn't even hear me, because I have no my own mass media (and the access to the carefully cultivated and formed mass consciousness). I've just sent my best wishes on the occasion to those who can hear me, can accept it and bounce back. End of story. And, yeah, I have absolutely nothing at all against any goddess of flowers, especially if some come my way in a nice sunny May day. Best regards, Dmitry Piyavkin
Re: [OT]: May Day
On Sun, 01 May 2016 16:29:40 -0500 John Hasler wrote: > Lisi writes: > > But New Zealand and the Isle of Man (sorry, I have been spelling it > > wrongly) both antedate Finland in granting full suffrage, and New > > Zealand's was unrestricted - but of course it was not independent. So > > we either have to allow both Finland and New Zealand, when New Zealand > > wins, or disallow both, on the grounds that they were not independent. > > Besides, if you allow them despite not being fully sovereign you have to > allow Wyoming, which beats them both. And let's not forget the picturesque Pitcairn islands, which beat Wyoming by some 30 years ;) Regards Michael .-.. .. ...- . .-.. --- -. --. .- -. -.. .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-. ... The prejudices people feel about each other disappear when they get to know each other. -- Kirk, "Elaan of Troyius", stardate 4372.5
Re: [OT]: May Day
Lisi writes: > But New Zealand and the Isle of Man (sorry, I have been spelling it > wrongly) both antedate Finland in granting full suffrage, and New > Zealand's was unrestricted - but of course it was not independent. So > we either have to allow both Finland and New Zealand, when New Zealand > wins, or disallow both, on the grounds that they were not independent. Besides, if you allow them despite not being fully sovereign you have to allow Wyoming, which beats them both. Also, Finland became an independent nation with full suffrage before New Zealand did. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: [OT]: May Day
Lisi Resiz wrote: > oldest continuous democratic government! John Hasler wrote: > Right. It's actually Finland, of course. > Within europe, i bet on San Marino... If you ignore the PFS period. > ...and Iceland. If you ignore being owned by Denmark (and the fact that it is not within Europe). > Finland was a colony of Sweden and/or Russia during most of the last > few hundred years. Finland was the first nation to grant full poltical rights to all women and to all races. It can be argued that no nation in which women cannot vote is a democracy. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: [OT]: May Day
On Sunday 01 May 2016 19:14:59 Thomas Schmitt wrote: > Hi, > > Lisi Reisz wrote: > > > oldest continuous democratic government! > > John Hasler wrote: > > Right. It's actually Finland, of course. > > Within europe, i bet on San Marino and Iceland. San Marino wins by a long chalk! I forgot about it as a separate state. The Isle of Mann can rival Iceland (beats it if you accept its records.) > > (Finland was a colony of Sweden and/or Russia during most of > the last few hundred years.) Yes, I over-simplified and left Sweden out. Lisi
Re: [OT]: May Day
On Sun, May 01, 2016 at 02:26:18PM +0200, Hans Vogelsberger wrote: > Am Sat, 30 Apr 2016 21:49:06 +0300 > schrieb Piyavkin : > > > Congratulations with International Worker's Day to all the working > > (in FOSS industry and at all) people! ) > > Have a nice day! > > > > > > Best regards, > > Dmitry Piyavkin > > > > Why workers only? There are other humans, too. Obviously Dmitry refers to working-class internationalism, not the ancient Roman May Day celebration in honor of the goddess of flowers. Although a gross simplification, workers don't own means of production, and so their gains depend on social solidarity. He apparently sees FOSS as an example of where cooperation pays off. The owners of the means of production gain instead from competition or monopoly. I suppose they would argue that it is competition between owners of proprietary software that best explains its development. They are naturally hostile to FOSS. Incidentally, I'm not suggesting that FOSS is crypto-socialist. Haines
Re: [OT]: May Day
Hi, Lisi Resiz wrote: > > oldest continuous democratic government! John Hasler wrote: > Right. It's actually Finland, of course. Within europe, i bet on San Marino and Iceland. (Finland was a colony of Sweden and/or Russia during most of the last few hundred years.) Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: [OT]: May Day
Lisi writes: > USA, you are a very YOUNG nation. You haven't got the oldest anything > (except Californian Redwoods, which antedate the USA.) Yes, there are > younger nations and peoples - but there are an awful lot of older > ones. For certain definitions of "nation". > I am still reeling from having been told by this list that the USA had the > oldest continuous democratic government! Right. It's actually Finland, of course. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: [OT]: May Day
On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote: > On Sunday 01 May 2016 18:13:38 Dan Hitt wrote: >> (And wasn't May day an American idea originally, which >> our ruling class wanted to tone down?) > > I am speechless!! > > "The earliest May Day celebrations appeared in pre-Christian times, with the > Floralia, festival of Flora, the Roman goddess of flowers, held on April 27 > during the Roman Republic era, and with the Walpurgis Night celebrations of > the Germanic countries. It is also associated with the Gaelic Beltane, most > commonly held on April 30. The day was a traditional summer holiday in many > pre-Christian European pagan cultures. While February 1 was the first day of > spring, May 1 was the first day of summer; hence, the summer solstice on June > 25 (now June 21) was Midsummer." Etc. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Day > > USA, you are a very YOUNG nation. You haven't got the oldest anything (except > Californian Redwoods, which antedate the USA.) Yes, there are younger > nations and peoples - but there are an awful lot of older ones. > > (I am still reeling from having been told by this list that the USA had the > oldest continuous democratic government!) > > Lisi > hahahahaha, my bad for sure Lisi!! I should have said "Labor Day" instead of "May Day", though. Because in fact May 1 was chosen as the date for Labor Day (or International Worker's Day) because of the murder of four striking workers May 4, 1887 in Chicago. Natural spring didn't originate here, and of course the idea of the holiness of labor was much earlier (when the Creator labored for 6 days and rested on the seventh). Thanks for pointing out my bug though!! dan
Re: [OT]: May Day
On Sunday 01 May 2016 18:13:38 Dan Hitt wrote: > (And wasn't May day an American idea originally, which > our ruling class wanted to tone down?) I am speechless!! "The earliest May Day celebrations appeared in pre-Christian times, with the Floralia, festival of Flora, the Roman goddess of flowers, held on April 27 during the Roman Republic era, and with the Walpurgis Night celebrations of the Germanic countries. It is also associated with the Gaelic Beltane, most commonly held on April 30. The day was a traditional summer holiday in many pre-Christian European pagan cultures. While February 1 was the first day of spring, May 1 was the first day of summer; hence, the summer solstice on June 25 (now June 21) was Midsummer." Etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Day USA, you are a very YOUNG nation. You haven't got the oldest anything (except Californian Redwoods, which antedate the USA.) Yes, there are younger nations and peoples - but there are an awful lot of older ones. (I am still reeling from having been told by this list that the USA had the oldest continuous democratic government!) Lisi
Re: [OT]: May Day
On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 10:05 AM, John Hasler wrote: > Nate writes: >> I struggled to pay attention in social studies class way back in grade >> school 40+ years ago. Does that count? > > Sure. As long as you collect no rents and own no capital you can be a > member of the proletariat. > -- > John Hasler > jhas...@newsguy.com > Elmwood, WI USA > Don't want to get OT on OT, but shouldn't the converse be true instead? That is, you're one with the workers if you or seriously aspire to work; not having capital should not put you in the working class, and having capital should not put you out. (Most people have cars after all, or other forms of working capital.) Anyhow, hoping everybody has a good May day and a productive year writing good free code. (And wasn't May day an American idea originally, which our ruling class wanted to tone down?) dan
Re: [OT]: May Day
Nate writes: > I struggled to pay attention in social studies class way back in grade > school 40+ years ago. Does that count? Sure. As long as you collect no rents and own no capital you can be a member of the proletariat. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: [OT]: May Day
* On 2016 01 May 08:23 -0500, John Hasler wrote: > Hans Vogelsberger writes: > > Why workers only? There are other humans, too. > > Class struggle. I struggled to pay attention in social studies class way back in grade school 40+ years ago. Does that count? ;-) Happy May Day from the workers paradise of a muddy farm somewhere in northern Kansas. - Nate -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
Re: [OT]: May Day
Hans Vogelsberger writes: > Why workers only? There are other humans, too. Class struggle. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: [OT]: May Day
On 1 May 2016 at 13:26, Hans Vogelsberger wrote: > Am Sat, 30 Apr 2016 21:49:06 +0300 > schrieb Piyavkin : > > > Congratulations with International Worker's Day to all the working > > (in FOSS industry and at all) people! ) > > Have a nice day! > > > > > > Best regards, > > Dmitry Piyavkin > > > > Why workers only? There are other humans, too. > What about activist investors? MF
Re: [OT]: May Day
Am Sat, 30 Apr 2016 21:49:06 +0300 schrieb Piyavkin : > Congratulations with International Worker's Day to all the working > (in FOSS industry and at all) people! ) > Have a nice day! > > > Best regards, > Dmitry Piyavkin > Why workers only? There are other humans, too.