Re: Dell Precision 3570 - Debian instead of Ubuntu - follow-up: why is Debian power consumption so much higher?
B.M. wrote: ... > Any ideas what I could do to get Debian to be as power efficient as Ubuntu= > ? aside from what other people have already said, if there are any devices that you are not going to use that you can turn off in the bios that might help further (you mention bluetooth but perhaps there are USB ports or other ports you are not going to use)... songbird
Re: Dell Precision 3570 - Debian instead of Ubuntu - follow-up: why is Debian power consumption so much higher?
On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 8:54 AM B.M. wrote: > Hi, > > I've got a brand new Dell Precision 3570 Laptop with Ubuntu 20.04 LTS pre- > installed. After figuring out recovery partition and tools, I installed > Debian > Testing (Bookworm) side-by-side (since using a live medium doesn't really > work > because it's based on Stable which isn't supporting the keyboard/touchpad > well > yet). > > Based on powertop the energy consumption of Ubuntu after booting, in a > Gnome > one Wayland-session, running nothing but a terminal, is about 2.79 - 3.37 > Watts, with an average of 3.08 W (over 15 measurements in a row). > > In Debian Testing (Bookworm), also Gnome on Wayland, fresh boot, terminal > running powertop, I get about 5.0 Watts, so ~60% higher. This after > installing > tlp (has been installed in Ubuntu) - before it has been around 8 - 10 W. > > On Debian I also compared the output of tlp-stat; I could align some > settings > afterwards (I added tlp config files and added some boot parameters: > workqueue.power_efficient=1, i915.i915_enable_fbc=1 and > i915.i915_enable_dc=1). > To me, there doesn't seem to be much difference anymore, but the higher > power > consumption remains. (There's only a SSD inside, no spinning discs, and > screen > brightness is set to the minimum in both cases. Bluetooth is deactivated in > Gnome settings.) > Measuring in TTY on Debian, after logout of the Gnome session, I get 4.9 W > as > well. > > Any ideas what I could do to get Debian to be as power efficient as Ubuntu? > Check the speed of your CPU's. It could be that Ubuntu was running at a slower speed than Debian. More speed, more watts used. > Thank you very much. > > Best, > Bernd > -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/ ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀
Re: Dell Precision 3570 - Debian instead of Ubuntu
I'm in a similar position for a Dell workstation at work. I decided to keep it as it came, with ubuntu 20.04. Some annoying niggles/differences compared with Debian which I use on all of my other systems but as this system acts as a server mostly, they are not particularly worrying. It's annoying that it has just the one big partition and I belatedly realised I should have repartitioned to have a separate root and home before copying over all of my (home) files. Easily fixed in due course. -- Eric S Fraga via gnus (Emacs 30.0.50 2022-12-02) on Debian 11.5
Re: Dell Precision 3570 - Debian instead of Ubuntu
On Fri, 2022-12-16 at 18:12 +0100, B.M. wrote: > Hi, > > The new laptop just arrived and I had a first look what the people > did > at Dell or Canonical: > > After switching it on the first time, I was asked to enter > / configure > WLAN, username, password, hostname, keyboard layout, time zone. It > also > let me create a recovery USB stick. After a reboot I now could just > use > it. But of course I had a look behind the scenes...: > > It came with Ubuntu 20.04.4 LTS and Gnome 3.36.8 running on X11. > > The internal disk is formatted as > - 891 MB EFI mounted at /boot/efi > - 8.6 GB FAT not mounted, disks reports it as "Microsoft Reserved" > - 503 GB Ext4 Root Partition > > The USB stick I used as recovery medium got formatted as > - 4 GB 0x00 (Bootable) ISO 9660 mounted at > /media//DellRecoveryMedia > - 4.1 MB EFI FAT not mounted > - and some GB free space > > After installing Synaptic I found out that there are some more > Origins > with installed packages as listed here: > local/main (dell.archive.canonical.com): > oem-fix-misc-cnl-tlp-estar-conf, 5.0.3.4, maintainer > commercial.engineering(at)canonical.com: > This package carrys agressive policy to pass energy-star, and > also > some blacklist for problematic devices > oem-somerville-factory-meta, 20.04ubuntu9, maintainer > commercial.engineering(at)canonical.com: > It installs packages needed to support this hardware fully. > oem-somerville-factory-paras-35-meta, 20.04ubuntu3, maintainer > commercial.engineering(at)canonical.com: > It installs packages needed to support this hardware fully. > (factory) > oem-somerville-meta, 20.04ubuntu9, maintainer > commercial.engineering(at)canonical.com: > This is a metapackage for Somerville platform. It installs > packages > needed to support this hardware fully. > oem-somerville-paras-35-meta, 20.04ubuntu3, maintainer > commercial.engineering(at)canonical.com: > This is a metapackage for Somerville Paras-35 platform. It > installs > packages needed to support this hardware fully. > oem-somerville-partner-archive-keyring, 20.04ubuntu2, maintainer > commercial.engineering(at)canonical.com: > Somerville project keyring. > local/universe (dell.archive.canonical.com): > tlp, 1.3.1-2, maintainer ubuntu-devel-discuss(at)lists.ubuntu.com: > Save battery power on laptops > (Description) > tlp-rdw, 1.3.1-2, maintainer ubuntu-devel- > discuss(at)lists.ubuntu.com: > Radio device wizard > (Description) > focal/universe (dell.archive.canonical.com): > tlp, 1.3.1-2, maintainer ubuntu-devel-discuss(at)lists.ubuntu.com: > tlp-rdw, 1.3.1-2, maintainer ubuntu-devel- > discuss(at)lists.ubuntu.com: > stable/main (dl.google.com): > google-chrome-stable is installed > > Now my thoughts are: > - Chrome not necessary... > - tlp, tlp-rdw: also in Debian Testing (Bookworm), but with higher > version number (1.5.0-1), but also with a different maintainer > (raphael.hal...@gmail.com) > oem-fix-misc-cnl-tlp-estar-conf: does it make sense to keep this > package? > oem-somerville-*: could make sense to keep... > > --> Can I re-install these packages after installing Debian Testing > by > adding and enabling these Dell repositories? > > Under /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/ there are some files that might be > corresponding to these repos and maybe I should keep them: > ubuntu-keyring-2008-oem.gpg > ubuntu-keyring-2008-oem.key.gpg > ubuntu-keyring-2020-oem.gpg > > and under /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ there are: > focal-oem.list > oem-somerville-paras-35-meta.list > > But: as far as I remember, one should not mix Debian packages /repos > with Ubuntu packages / repos, but I might work. > > What do you think? > > (Of course I could just keep it as it is, but I'd prefer having a > Debian-only setup in our family across all devices.) > > (Fun fact also mentioned: on the Dell website for the laptop there is > a > Q&A section where is stated that the laptop comes without any OS pre- > installed but one could install Ubuntu on it while when asking their > chat the answer was that it's not allowed to sell computers without > any > OS installed (at least here in Switzerland)...) > > Have a nice day, > Bernd > > > PS: Please add me CC since I'm currently not subscribed to this list. > Thanks. > Hi again, Looking a bit further, it seems that all these packages are not containing more than 3 config files within /etc/tlp.d/ And the tlp and tlp-rdw packages itself. Does someone have an idea what it means that these packages have higher version numbers in Debian Testing but a different maintainer (see my last mail)? Going back in the Debian changelog file there hasn't been a change in the maintainer, i.e. I have to assume that the packages are not identical? Should/could I compare their config files? Thank you and have a nice day, Bernd
Re: Dell Precision 3570 - Debian instead of Ubuntu
Hi, The new laptop just arrived and I had a first look what the people did at Dell or Canonical: After switching it on the first time, I was asked to enter / configure WLAN, username, password, hostname, keyboard layout, time zone. It also let me create a recovery USB stick. After a reboot I now could just use it. But of course I had a look behind the scenes...: It came with Ubuntu 20.04.4 LTS and Gnome 3.36.8 running on X11. The internal disk is formatted as - 891 MB EFI mounted at /boot/efi - 8.6 GB FAT not mounted, disks reports it as "Microsoft Reserved" - 503 GB Ext4 Root Partition The USB stick I used as recovery medium got formatted as - 4 GB 0x00 (Bootable) ISO 9660 mounted at /media//DellRecoveryMedia - 4.1 MB EFI FAT not mounted - and some GB free space After installing Synaptic I found out that there are some more Origins with installed packages as listed here: local/main (dell.archive.canonical.com): oem-fix-misc-cnl-tlp-estar-conf, 5.0.3.4, maintainer commercial.engineering(at)canonical.com: This package carrys agressive policy to pass energy-star, and also some blacklist for problematic devices oem-somerville-factory-meta, 20.04ubuntu9, maintainer commercial.engineering(at)canonical.com: It installs packages needed to support this hardware fully. oem-somerville-factory-paras-35-meta, 20.04ubuntu3, maintainer commercial.engineering(at)canonical.com: It installs packages needed to support this hardware fully. (factory) oem-somerville-meta, 20.04ubuntu9, maintainer commercial.engineering(at)canonical.com: This is a metapackage for Somerville platform. It installs packages needed to support this hardware fully. oem-somerville-paras-35-meta, 20.04ubuntu3, maintainer commercial.engineering(at)canonical.com: This is a metapackage for Somerville Paras-35 platform. It installs packages needed to support this hardware fully. oem-somerville-partner-archive-keyring, 20.04ubuntu2, maintainer commercial.engineering(at)canonical.com: Somerville project keyring. local/universe (dell.archive.canonical.com): tlp, 1.3.1-2, maintainer ubuntu-devel-discuss(at)lists.ubuntu.com: Save battery power on laptops (Description) tlp-rdw, 1.3.1-2, maintainer ubuntu-devel- discuss(at)lists.ubuntu.com: Radio device wizard (Description) focal/universe (dell.archive.canonical.com): tlp, 1.3.1-2, maintainer ubuntu-devel-discuss(at)lists.ubuntu.com: tlp-rdw, 1.3.1-2, maintainer ubuntu-devel- discuss(at)lists.ubuntu.com: stable/main (dl.google.com): google-chrome-stable is installed Now my thoughts are: - Chrome not necessary... - tlp, tlp-rdw: also in Debian Testing (Bookworm), but with higher version number (1.5.0-1), but also with a different maintainer (raphael.hal...@gmail.com) oem-fix-misc-cnl-tlp-estar-conf: does it make sense to keep this package? oem-somerville-*: could make sense to keep... --> Can I re-install these packages after installing Debian Testing by adding and enabling these Dell repositories? Under /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/ there are some files that might be corresponding to these repos and maybe I should keep them: ubuntu-keyring-2008-oem.gpg ubuntu-keyring-2008-oem.key.gpg ubuntu-keyring-2020-oem.gpg and under /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ there are: focal-oem.list oem-somerville-paras-35-meta.list But: as far as I remember, one should not mix Debian packages /repos with Ubuntu packages / repos, but I might work. What do you think? (Of course I could just keep it as it is, but I'd prefer having a Debian-only setup in our family across all devices.) (Fun fact also mentioned: on the Dell website for the laptop there is a Q&A section where is stated that the laptop comes without any OS pre- installed but one could install Ubuntu on it while when asking their chat the answer was that it's not allowed to sell computers without any OS installed (at least here in Switzerland)...) Have a nice day, Bernd PS: Please add me CC since I'm currently not subscribed to this list. Thanks. On Mon, 2022-11-28 at 10:04 +0100, B.M. wrote: > Hi, > > I'm going to buy a Dell Precision 3570 laptop in the next couple of > weeks. > Since it's a Build Your Own device, I can order it with Ubuntu 20.04 > LTS pre- > installed instead of paying for an never used Win 11 :-) > > Since all our other computers are happily running Debian, I'd like to > replace > this Ubuntu by Debian Testing (later Bookworm). I've already decided > to run it > on a single btrfs partition and learn something about subvolumes... I > assume > the machine should work well - but who knows? How would you proceed? > > a) leave it running Ubuntu forever > b) replace Ubuntu by Debian, fiddling around issues if there are any > later > c) resize the partition, install Debian side-by-side, check than if > anything > works as expected > d) analyze the installed system (how?) to find out any special > configs etc. > before replacing Ubuntu by Debian > e) other... > >
Re: Dell Precision 3570 - Debian instead of Ubuntu
On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 10:04:33 +0100 "B.M." wrote: > I'm going to buy a Dell Precision 3570 laptop in the next couple of > weeks. Since it's a Build Your Own device, I can order it with Ubuntu > 20.04 LTS pre- installed instead of paying for an never used Win 11 > :-) > > Since all our other computers are happily running Debian, I'd like to > replace this Ubuntu by Debian Testing (later Bookworm). Have you looked at Linux Hardware? They have one report for this make & model, using Debian 11 (Bullseye). It looks encouraging. https://linux-hardware.org/?probe=f4f047eecf -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: Dell Precision 3570 - Debian instead of Ubuntu
On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 10:04:33AM +0100, B.M. wrote: > Hi, > Hi Bernd, > I'm going to buy a Dell Precision 3570 laptop in the next couple of weeks. > Since it's a Build Your Own device, I can order it with Ubuntu 20.04 LTS pre- > installed instead of paying for an never used Win 11 :-) > > Since all our other computers are happily running Debian, I'd like to replace > this Ubuntu by Debian Testing (later Bookworm). I've already decided to run it > on a single btrfs partition and learn something about subvolumes... I assume > the machine should work well - but who knows? How would you proceed? > Although Testing will start the freeze process within a couple of months, I'd suggest running on Debian Bullseye at least for the moment - there will be a bunch of change in Testing before the freeze. I would definitely install using the currently unnofficial installer including non-free firmware as this will make your life a whole lot easier from the outset. > a) leave it running Ubuntu forever > b) replace Ubuntu by Debian, fiddling around issues if there are any later > c) resize the partition, install Debian side-by-side, check than if anything > works as expected > d) analyze the installed system (how?) to find out any special configs etc. > before replacing Ubuntu by Debian > e) other... > This depends very much on the size of the included NVME. If you feel confident to do so, I'd also recommend replacing the included NVME with a larger one. This will (potentially) void the warranty, but, as others have said, it also means that you preserve the original OS intact and can swap it back if necessary. If you choose to do this, do it *before* you boot up the laptop/put the new NVME in a case and boot to it first without ever touching the Dell provided NVME. > Thank you for your ideas. > > Have a nice day, > Bernd > > PS: Please cc me, since I'm not regularly subscribed to the list > > Good luck with it all - if it is brand new hardware, do let us know of any problems / put together a wiki page for DebianOn With every good wish, as ever, Andy Cater
Re: Dell Precision 3570 - Debian instead of Ubuntu
B.M. writes: I'm going to buy a Dell Precision 3570 laptop in the next couple of weeks. Since it's a Build Your Own device, I can order it with Ubuntu 20.04 LTS pre- [...] the machine should work well - but who knows? How would you proceed? [...] b) replace Ubuntu by Debian, fiddling around issues if there are any later [...] d) analyze the installed system (how?) to find out any special configs etc. before replacing Ubuntu by Debian [...] My approach would be to combine d + b of sorts: 1. First start up from a Debian Live system. Check that it boots OK. 2. Then create a copy of the installed Ubuntu system (either `dd` or `tar` depending on your preferences) and store the copy at a network location or attach an external USB drive for the purpose. 3. Then install Debian replacing the existent Ubuntu installation. 4. If something specific does not work and cannot be made working by installing non-free / proprietary graphics drivers etc. then the previously created copy can be analyzed to find out if Dell's Ubuntu does something special/differently. 5. In case of hardware warranty issues etc. you can bring back the original Ubuntu just in case Dell insists on having that present for error error analysis. Once the device goes out of warranty, you could delete the old Ubuntu copy from whatever storage you saved it to. Alternatively, with most Dell Precision machines, it should be possible to order a “keep your hard drive” service that allows you to send-in a device for warranty without having to hand-back the system drive. Not sure if it is viable in this case, though. HTH Linux-Fan öö pgp8bgSj1YVdv.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Dell Precision 3570 - Debian instead of Ubuntu
Hi, B.M. wrote: > Since all our other computers are happily running Debian, I'd like to replace > this Ubuntu by Debian Testing (later Bookworm). I've already decided to run it > on a single btrfs partition and learn something about subvolumes... I assume > the machine should work well - but who knows? How would you proceed? > [...] > b) replace Ubuntu by Debian, fiddling around issues if there are any later [...] Yes. This would be my way. I would replace the include NVMe by larger, similar one, and install Debian Bullseye on it. Because this URL confirms, that Debian Bullseye is working without issues, if you can have access to the Linux firmware, like by USB stick. https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Dell/Precision%203570%20%28bullseye%29 Therefore I would replace the NVMe by a similar, larger one. Have a look into the "Precision 3570 Setup und technische Daten" document, which can be found a the Dell website, for all the technical details for the NVMe (table 13 + 14). https://dl.dell.com/content/manual56242967-precision-3570-setup-und-technische-daten.pdf?language=de-de&ps=true Then replace it, like it is described in the Precision 3570 Service handbook, found again at the Dell website. https://dl.dell.com/content/manual55813596-precision-3570-servicehandbuch.pdf?language=de-de&ps=true If you fear, that you will still need the Ubuntu 22.04 LTS, and need the access to it, install old NVMe into a NVMe case with an external USB connection. But, as said above, Debian Bullseye should work without any adaption. Good luck. Regards, Klaus. -- Klaus Singvogel GnuPG-Key-ID: 1024R/5068792D 1994-06-27
Re: Dell Precision 3570 - Debian instead of Ubuntu
On 11/28/22 11:04, B.M. wrote: Hi, I'm going to buy a Dell Precision 3570 laptop in the next couple of weeks. Since it's a Build Your Own device, I can order it with Ubuntu 20.04 LTS pre- installed instead of paying for an never used Win 11 :-) Since all our other computers are happily running Debian, I'd like to replace this Ubuntu by Debian Testing (later Bookworm). I've already decided to run it on a single btrfs partition and learn something about subvolumes... I assume the machine should work well - but who knows? How would you proceed? a) leave it running Ubuntu forever b) replace Ubuntu by Debian, fiddling around issues if there are any later c) resize the partition, install Debian side-by-side, check than if anything works as expected d) analyze the installed system (how?) to find out any special configs etc. before replacing Ubuntu by Debian e) other... Hi, it seems that the laptop has 2 Type A USB ports so if I was you, I would put two flash drives in them - one with Debian installer and one empty. In this way you can install Debian on second flash drive. Once Debian is installed on second flash drive, you'll be able to check whether all controllers work properly on Debian. If anything doesn't work properly you can always boot Ubuntu from the SSD and check there what configuration is. When everything is configured on Debian and you are sure you can repeat installation and configuration, you can run Debian installer again and install Debian on the internal SSD. Kind regards Georgi
Re: Dell Precision 3570 - Debian instead of Ubuntu
Am 28.11.2022 10:04, schrieb B.M.: Hi, I'm going to buy a Dell Precision 3570 laptop [...] How would you proceed? [...] e) other... Thank you for your ideas. Maybe as an option: If there are special drivers needed, patches to the kernel, etc., you can run Debian on the Ubuntu kernel if everything else fails. I'm running a Chromebook* this way, using some ChromiumOS Kernel** plus Debian userland in Chromebooks dev-mode. regards hede *) Coreboot+Depthcharge, no u-boot or UEFI, Googles Embedded Controler, etc. **) self compiled kernel with mixed ChromiumOS+Debian config plus some fixes as the ChromiumOS patchset for Linux 5.10 a little buggy and doesn't even compile with some config options Debian sets but ChromiumOS does not use.
Re: Dell Precision 3570 - Debian instead of Ubuntu
On 28/11/2022 17:04, B.M. wrote: Hi, I'm going to buy a Dell Precision 3570 laptop in the next couple of weeks. Since it's a Build Your Own device, I can order it with Ubuntu 20.04 LTS pre- installed instead of paying for an never used Win 11 :-) Since all our other computers are happily running Debian, I'd like to replace this Ubuntu by Debian Testing (later Bookworm). I've already decided to run it on a single btrfs partition and learn something about subvolumes... I assume the machine should work well - but who knows? How would you proceed? a) leave it running Ubuntu forever b) replace Ubuntu by Debian, fiddling around issues if there are any later c) resize the partition, install Debian side-by-side, check than if anything works as expected d) analyze the installed system (how?) to find out any special configs etc. before replacing Ubuntu by Debian e) other... Thank you for your ideas. Have a nice day, Bernd PS: Please cc me, since I'm not regularly subscribed to the list Hello. First thing - it should have Ubuntu 22.04 LTS installed - that version (22.04) is now seven months old, and, has gone into point releases (patched sub-versions). I recommend retaining Ubuntu (and keeping it updated to the latest LTS version), as, if you encounter any hardware driver or firmware issues, that could help you resolve them, if you install another Linux distribution in parallel. I do not know whether Debian uses snap, but, Ubuntu does, and the use of snap on Ubuntu, now, has led to some quite passionate arguments, for and against it. You might want to, depending on the system capacity, install each of Linux Mint, and Debian, in parallel with Ubuntu, and, play with each of the three operating systems, to find your preference. You can share a single swap partition, between different distributions, and, between different versions of the same distribution. A 32GB partition is adequate for a / partition for a distribution, and, depending on how you want to deal with data, a 32GB or 64GB partition, should be adequate for a /home partition, with using shared data partitions (on a system that I recently acquired, I have shared data partitions formatted as exfat, for its enhanced features, and, it is accessible and formattable (?) using gparted). In case you are not aware, you can have a multi-boot iso USB thumbdrive, using Ventoy, which is easy to set up and use, and, you can boot into any live distro version, or, install from the iso versions, on a Ventoy thumbdrive. I have a Ventoy drive, with about 8 different distro iso's on it. Liam Proven has written published articles about Ventoy (https://www.theregister.com/2021/12/10/friday_foss_fest/). I hope that this is a helpful, and useful, start, to consider. .. Bret Busby Armadale West Australia (UTC+0800) ..
