Re: Signatures (was Re: typewriter function for an impact printer?)
On 24 Feb at 14:43 Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 02/24/08 07:03, Tony van der Hoff wrote: On 23 Feb at 18:10 Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED] [snip] -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA (Women are) like compilers. They take simple statements and make them into big productions. Pitr Dubovitch Hey Ron, I hope I' not teaching granny to suck eggs, but the standard sig-sep is dash-dash-space-newline, so unless you're so proud of your sig that you want it quoted back to you... I've got a window print showing that the signature is placed correctly. Will privately send it to you, if you want. No, Ron, I'm not the net-police; I don't need evidence; just thought I was being helpful :) Maybe Gemini just isn't up to snuff in handling signed documents. [snip] Maybe, but it's not had trouble before. I'd raise it with the developer, but I wouldn't know precisely what the complaint would be. More likely it's the list server doing something odd. This is the raw source of what I'm receiving: - Maybe Gemini just isn't up to snuff in handling signed documents. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA - I don't think the extra dash is a result of signing. But it doesn't bother me to snip a bit when replying to your posts :) Cheers, -- Tony van der Hoff| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Buckinghamshire, England -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Signatures (was Re: typewriter function for an impact printer?)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 02/24/08 09:04, Tony van der Hoff wrote: On 24 Feb at 14:43 Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 02/24/08 07:03, Tony van der Hoff wrote: On 23 Feb at 18:10 Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED] [snip] -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA (Women are) like compilers. They take simple statements and make them into big productions. Pitr Dubovitch Hey Ron, I hope I' not teaching granny to suck eggs, but the standard sig-sep is dash-dash-space-newline, so unless you're so proud of your sig that you want it quoted back to you... I've got a window print showing that the signature is placed correctly. Will privately send it to you, if you want. No, Ron, I'm not the net-police; I don't need evidence; just thought I was being helpful :) I know. If I seemed harsh, it was definitely unintentional. Maybe Gemini just isn't up to snuff in handling signed documents. [snip] Maybe, but it's not had trouble before. I'd raise it with the developer, but I wouldn't know precisely what the complaint would be. More likely it's the list server doing something odd. This is the raw source of what I'm receiving: - Maybe Gemini just isn't up to snuff in handling signed documents. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA - I don't think the extra dash is a result of signing. But it doesn't bother me to snip a bit when replying to your posts :) I think it is a side-effect of signing, because when I look at Reply emails that I have *not* signed, they do *not* have the added ^- . So, I'd take one of these emails and show it to the Gemini developers. Who knows, maybe they'll blame it on Tbird not following the relevant RFCs... - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA (Women are) like compilers. They take simple statements and make them into big productions. Pitr Dubovitch -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHwbhpS9HxQb37XmcRAqnTAJsHVDFhNr6vVOlCocFP6iZjA4kn0QCdFIMJ xeGskthW+o1R+3DdrvcTfmc= =2bFx -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Signatures (was Re: typewriter function for an impact printer?)
On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it is a side-effect of signing, because when I look at Reply emails that I have *not* signed, they do *not* have the added ^- . So, I'd take one of these emails and show it to the Gemini developers. Who knows, maybe they'll blame it on Tbird not following the relevant RFCs... I think it's an enigmail issue. They list this as an advanced option: '--' is a signature separator: when signing, lines starting with '-' are replaced with '- -' by GnuPG according to the OpenPGP standard. This however makes the lines no longer appear as separator between the messsage body and a signature, which is normally displayed in grey. By enabling this option, enigmail enables some workarounds when reading and composing messages to treat such lines correctly. This confuses gmail's little mind, as well, but that shouldn't necessarily surprise us. -- Michael A. Marsh http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~mmarsh http://mamarsh.blogspot.com http://36pints.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Signatures (was Re: typewriter function for an impact printer?)
On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 12:33:14 -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On 02/24/08 09:04, Tony van der Hoff wrote: On 24 Feb at 14:43 Ron Johnson wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 02/24/08 07:03, Tony van der Hoff wrote: [...] Hey Ron, I hope I' not teaching granny to suck eggs, but the standard sig-sep is dash-dash-space-newline, so unless you're so proud of your sig that you want it quoted back to you... [...] Maybe Gemini just isn't up to snuff in handling signed documents. [snip] Maybe, but it's not had trouble before. I'd raise it with the developer, but I wouldn't know precisely what the complaint would be. More likely it's the list server doing something odd. This is the raw source of what I'm receiving: - Maybe Gemini just isn't up to snuff in handling signed documents. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA - I don't think the extra dash is a result of signing. But it doesn't bother me to snip a bit when replying to your posts :) I think it is a side-effect of signing, because when I look at Reply emails that I have *not* signed, they do *not* have the added ^- . So, I'd take one of these emails and show it to the Gemini developers. Who knows, maybe they'll blame it on Tbird not following the relevant RFCs... It seems to me that it is an inherent problem with inline signing: Google for pgp dash escaping or pgp trailing whitespace or something like that. When I get your messages, I also see the mutilated sig dash - -- until I tell mutt to verify your signature. As part of the verification process the leading - is removed, so it appears to be some sort of escape sequence. I see the same behavior if I save the raw message to disk and run gpg manually on it. However, this does not restore the proper signature separator because the trailing space remains missing. I found that I can add trailing spaces on any line of your message and it still validates, so there appears to be a convention to strip off trailing whitespace before checking the validity of the signature. (I have not read the relevant RFCs, but my guess would be that this is done to accommodate for the mangling of line endings that might happen with various MUAs on different operating systems.) This seems to make it impossible to have the proper dash-dash-space signature delimiter in an inline-signed message, unless there is a special escape sequence for that. (If there is indeed one then Thunderbird does not seem to know anything about it.) I think this is one of the reasons why inline signatures have been depreciated for quite a while; why not use PGP/MIME detached signatures instead? -- Regards,| http://users.icfo.es/Florian.Kulzer Florian | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Signatures (was Re: typewriter function for an impact printer?)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 02/24/08 13:07, Florian Kulzer wrote: [snip] It seems to me that it is an inherent problem with inline signing: Google for pgp dash escaping or pgp trailing whitespace or something like that. When I get your messages, I also see the mutilated sig dash - -- until I tell mutt to verify your signature. As part of the verification process the leading - is removed, so it appears to be some sort of escape sequence. I see the same behavior if I save the raw message to disk and run gpg manually on it. However, this does not restore the proper signature separator because the trailing space remains missing. I found that I can add trailing spaces on any line of your message and it still validates, so there appears to be a convention to strip off trailing whitespace before checking the validity of the signature. (I have not read the relevant RFCs, but my guess would be that this is done to accommodate for the mangling of line endings that might happen with various MUAs on different operating systems.) This seems to make it impossible to have the proper dash-dash-space signature delimiter in an inline-signed message, unless there is a special escape sequence for that. (If there is indeed one then Thunderbird does not seem to know anything about it.) I think this is one of the reasons why inline signatures have been depreciated for quite a while; why not use PGP/MIME detached signatures instead? Interesting. I'll research that. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA (Women are) like compilers. They take simple statements and make them into big productions. Pitr Dubovitch -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHwew/S9HxQb37XmcRAliYAKDsiAHojC/nSi3ldSTi6TKcsb6JggCgzn5F bIRpLzU+nVnlpsL/iE4w+NE= =J6St -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Signatures (was Re: typewriter function for an impact printer?)
Ron Johnson wrote: On 02/24/08 13:07, Florian Kulzer wrote: It seems to me that it is an inherent problem with inline signing: Google for pgp dash escaping or pgp trailing whitespace or something like that. [ snippage ] Interesting. I'll research that. Yup, it's the inline signing. It's because of how PGP originally signed things. The block delimiters are -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-, -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- and -END PGP SIGNATURE-. As you can see, every single one of then starts with 5 dashes. For some reason the sig delimiter, which predates PGP, causes problems so any like that starts with a dash gets the first dash changed to - -. Much like mbox prepends a to any line that starts with From. Generally speaking the best way to get around all that is to multipart sign. The body and signature are separate MIME parts. Since MIME was designed to deal with encapsulating stuff like this and not interfere with its delimiters the original text is untouched. I can only think of two clients that can't deal with multipart signed messages. One hasn't been updated in almost 10 years and the other would rarely be used here. ;) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
