subject:"Re\: Skype"

Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:

> On 08/02/17 13:32, deloptes wrote:
>> Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
>>> Sound works for me in Skype for Web under the non-free Chrome.
>> haha indeed - and what about video, have you tested it? does it work in
>> chrome too?
> 
> I have not tried a video call.
> 
>> I can choose between M$ and M$ ... oh well there is Apple as well
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSZfUnCK5qk
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080455/quotes?item=qt0320035
> Elwood: What kind of music do you usually have here?
> Claire: Oh, we got both kinds. We got country *and* western.
> 
>> Very nice world!
> 
> Trevor Noah; all the news you need:
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwWhs_6x42TyRM4Wstoq8HA
> 
> Kind regards,

Thanks ... except that it is not really funny. But well, every culture has
its middle ages  unfortunately no one gets it ATM.

If we are pragmatic it was a joke that skype was ported to linux, we'll need
to find another way. I'm thinking of mere SIP phone or just dropping the
desktop and using windows anyway. There was too much disappointment
recently from the linux side.

regards

Re: Skype

2017-02-07 Thread Ben Caradoc-Davies


On 08/02/17 13:32, deloptes wrote:

Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:

Sound works for me in Skype for Web under the non-free Chrome.

haha indeed - and what about video, have you tested it? does it work in
chrome too?


I have not tried a video call.


I can choose between M$ and M$ ... oh well there is Apple as well


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSZfUnCK5qk
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080455/quotes?item=qt0320035
Elwood: What kind of music do you usually have here?
Claire: Oh, we got both kinds. We got country *and* western.


Very nice world!


Trevor Noah; all the news you need:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwWhs_6x42TyRM4Wstoq8HA

Kind regards,

--
Ben Caradoc-Davies 
Director
Transient Software Limited 
New Zealand

Re: Skype

Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:

> Sound works for me in Skype for Web under the non-free Chrome.

haha indeed - and what about video, have you tested it? does it work in
chrome too?


And another product buried by M$ ... in fact the biggest one was Nokia
though - IMO ... well done Europe ... well done US ... well done China.
IMO linux as desktop will be just a toy for kids soon ...  and perhaps
developers.

Regarding OS I now have a big choice on the phone market (android various
versions), I have a big choice on the desktop market as well and I have soo
much choice @work - I can choose between M$ and M$ ... oh well there is
Apple as well - I never understood how it works and why it exists :D - oh
yes - I forgot, M$ is keeping it alive ... because otherwise they'll break
apart M$.

Very nice world! Thank you all! In the past 17y we've done excellent work!
KDE became unusable, Gnome became ugly ... but most important we are happy,
multi cultural, refugee-welcome, anti-trump, vegetarian, hipster, raspberry
society ... Sooo many useful things we've done in those past years. I
forgot mentioning saving so many too-big-to-fails ... so that investment in
education went down everywhere ... And don't forget more people have access
to food and water today than 20y ago ... because, well, those that didn't
are already dead.

*irony off*

regards

Re: Skype

2017-02-07 Thread Ben Caradoc-Davies


On 08/02/17 11:49, deloptes wrote:

Very interesting. I log in to skype for web. It says at the top:
"Interested in richer and more integrated experience? Download the official
desktop app. Download"
When I "download" I get debian package "skypeforlinux-64-alpha.deb"
installing this creates
cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/skype-stable.list
deb [arch=amd64] https://repo.skype.com/deb stable main
and skypeforlinux runs with a somewhat newer theme, however sound is not
working for me - I just tried "Skype Test Call". Well it says it's Alpha,
so might be they'll release a working beta until 1. March.
Or it might be finally time to change to something else ... I evaluated
recently Tox...
Very interesting story - thanks
regards


I have not used it but, according to this Slashdot comment, "Skype for 
Linux" is Skype for Web in Chromium:

https://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10202241&cid=53802307

Sound works for me in Skype for Web under the non-free Chrome.

If the comment above is correct, I do not see the point of "Skype for 
Linux". A software product that contains a web browser so that it can 
connect to a single web site is in my view a deployment anti-pattern 
because it (1) duplicates the installation of software, and (2) defeats 
the purpose of the web (interoperability).


Kind regards,

--
Ben Caradoc-Davies 
Director
Transient Software Limited 
New Zealand

Re: Skype

Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:

> On 08/02/17 10:20, deloptes wrote:
>> Anonymous wrote:
>>> Skype on Linux is terrible and crashes randomly, even after fixing the
>>> Pulseaudio issue.
>> I use debian jessie and skype 4.3.0.37 on daily basis - no idea what you
>> are talking about.
> 
> I use Skype 4.3.0.37 i386 on unstable. While it still works for Skype
> Out, group calls and chat now require cloud connections and do not work.
> For group calls and chat, I use Skype for Web in Chrome.
> 
> The worst news is that Microsoft are shutting down Skype p2p in three
> weeks (on 1 March). I expect that I will no longer be able to sign in
> with Skype 4.3.0.37. I did not receive any email notifying me of this. I
> only heard about it online:
>
https://apple.slashdot.org/story/17/02/04/059204/microsoft-is-disabling-older-versions-of-skype-for-mac-and-windows-on-march-1
>
http://venturebeat.com/2017/02/03/microsoft-is-disabling-older-versions-of-skype-for-mac-and-windows-on-march-1/
>
https://blogs.skype.com/news/2017/02/03/the-skype-you-love-is-getting-better-download-it-for-free-today/
>
https://community.skype.com/t5/Linux/Skype-for-Linux-End-of-life/td-p/4586741
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/02/skype-for-linux-end-of-life-march
> 
> I am hoping that Skype for Web will meet my needs. The interface seems
> clunkier, is missing some functionality, and chat history is discarded
> after a short time (30 days?). Core functionality seems to work.
> 
> On the up-side, once Skype 4.3.0.37 is gone, I am one Brother printer
> driver away from ditching the entire i386 architecture.
> 
> Kind regards,

Very interesting. I log in to skype for web. It says at the top:
"Interested in richer and more integrated experience? Download the official
desktop app. Download"

When I "download" I get debian package "skypeforlinux-64-alpha.deb"

installing this creates

cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/skype-stable.list
deb [arch=amd64] https://repo.skype.com/deb stable main

and skypeforlinux runs with a somewhat newer theme, however sound is not
working for me - I just tried "Skype Test Call". Well it says it's Alpha,
so might be they'll release a working beta until 1. March.
Or it might be finally time to change to something else ... I evaluated
recently Tox...

Very interesting story - thanks

regards

Re: Skype

2017-02-07 Thread Ben Caradoc-Davies

On 08/02/17 10:20, deloptes wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Skype on Linux is terrible and crashes randomly, even after fixing the
Pulseaudio issue.

I use debian jessie and skype 4.3.0.37 on daily basis - no idea what you are
talking about.

I use Skype 4.3.0.37 i386 on unstable. While it still works for Skype
Out, group calls and chat now require cloud connections and do not work.
For group calls and chat, I use Skype for Web in Chrome.

The worst news is that Microsoft are shutting down Skype p2p in three
weeks (on 1 March). I expect that I will no longer be able to sign in
with Skype 4.3.0.37. I did not receive any email notifying me of this. I
only heard about it online:

https://apple.slashdot.org/story/17/02/04/059204/microsoft-is-disabling-older-versions-of-skype-for-mac-and-windows-on-march-1
http://venturebeat.com/2017/02/03/microsoft-is-disabling-older-versions-of-skype-for-mac-and-windows-on-march-1/
https://blogs.skype.com/news/2017/02/03/the-skype-you-love-is-getting-better-download-it-for-free-today/
https://community.skype.com/t5/Linux/Skype-for-Linux-End-of-life/td-p/4586741
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/02/skype-for-linux-end-of-life-march

I am hoping that Skype for Web will meet my needs. The interface seems
clunkier, is missing some functionality, and chat history is discarded
after a short time (30 days?). Core functionality seems to work.

On the up-side, once Skype 4.3.0.37 is gone, I am one Brother printer
driver away from ditching the entire i386 architecture.

Kind regards,

--
Ben Caradoc-Davies
Director
Transient Software Limited
New Zealand

Re: Skype

2017-02-07 Thread Joshua M. Boniface


On 2017-02-07 3:25 PM, Anonymous wrote:

Skype on Linux is terrible and crashes randomly, even after fixing the
Pulseaudio issue. No other software I've ever used on Linux causes as
many problems as Skype. Obviously this problem ultimately comes from
Microsoft, but nevertheless many of us need Skype for communications
with colleagues running a non-Linux OS since it is the overwhelming
market leader in VOIP; this is especially common in a business environment.

Skype needs to run on Linux with the same stability that it does on
Windows and MacOS, WITHOUT resorting to installing WINE, and preferably
without relying on WebRTC.

If you could develop a non-Skype Linux client with the ability to easily
communicate on the Skype platform --- something open source but which
has compatibility with Skype, coordinated with Microsoft --- that would
be ideal. But relying on Microsoft to develop good software for Linux
has proven to be a losing proposition and I'm sure is stifling the
adoption of Linux by a wider audience.

So you're basically asking for a native Skype... that isn't Skype? That 
would be great, except that the application and protocol are completely 
closed-source, so until Microsoft releases the protocol, we're out of 
luck with that. Perhaps contact Microsoft with your concerns about their 
closed-source application, or encourage your colleagues to move to a 
more open system?


- Joshua

Re: Skype

Anonymous wrote:

> Skype on Linux is terrible and crashes randomly, even after fixing the
> Pulseaudio issue.

I use debian jessie and skype 4.3.0.37 on daily basis - no idea what you are
talking about.

Re: Skype video question

2015-06-01 Thread deloptes

Haines Brown wrote:

which version of skype are you using and on what system?

> No luck. When I try to establish a connection, the interface still comes
> up with the camera icon crossed out. I assume that this icon should not be
> crossed out at any time, even before contact is made.

if it is grey and crossed while dialing it is ok. when call is established
the other party may enable video and then you see the normal icon

> 
> I notice that besides the crossed out video camera, to the left of the
> interface is the IM symbol. Does this mean that the communication mode
> I'm trying to establish is IM, not video? Under General Options, enabled
> is call rather than chat.

no - it looks like you never used skype, man. the symbol means chat - you
can start chat by pressing it with the person you are talking to.

> 
> I notice now that the contact with whom the problem first came up has a
> little blue video camera icon to the far right in my list of
> contacts. That icon is missing for another contact. What does this icon
> mean?

It means that the person has video camera setup and you can do a video call

Does the people you can not make video call have camera and can make video
call to other people using skype?

regards

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Re: Skype video question

2015-06-01 Thread Sven Arvidsson

On Mon, 2015-06-01 at 05:45 -0400, Haines Brown wrote:
> No luck. When I try to establish a connection, the interface still comes up
> with the camera icon crossed out. I assume that this icon should not be
> crossed out at any time, even before contact is made.

Have you enabled the camera in the settings and restarted Skype?

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Re: Skype video question

2015-06-01 Thread Haines Brown

On Mon, Jun 01, 2015 at 01:22:49AM +0200, Kailash Kalyani wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 12:49 AM, Haines Brown  wrote:
> 
> I used to run skype without a problem, but now when someone calls, they
> can hear and see me. I can hear but cannot see them.
> 
> Try this:
> 
> LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libv4l/v4l1compat.so /usr/bin/skype
> src: https://wiki.debian.org/skype

I am in video group, lib4l-0 library is installed and I replaced the line
Exec=skype %U with the line 
Exec=LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libv4l/v4l1compat.so /usr/bin/skype %U
in /usr/local/applications/skype.desktop.

No luck. When I try to establish a connection, the interface still comes up
with the camera icon crossed out. I assume that this icon should not be
crossed out at any time, even before contact is made.

I notice that besides the crossed out video camera, to the left of the
interface is the IM symbol. Does this mean that the communication mode
I'm trying to establish is IM, not video? Under General Options, enabled
is call rather than chat. 

I notice now that the contact with whom the problem first came up has a
little blue video camera icon to the far right in my list of
contacts. That icon is missing for another contact. What does this icon
mean?

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Re: Skype video question

2015-05-31 Thread Kailash Kalyani

On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 12:49 AM, Haines Brown  wrote:

> I used to run skype without a problem, but now when someone calls, they
> can hear and see me. I can hear but cannot see them. My video camera is
> working fine. I installed guvcview and it has no trouble using my
> camera.  When I go to Skype, options, video device, I see that video is
> enabled and I see myself.
>
> But when I try to skype someone, the camera icon on the interface is
> crossed out. And the camera LED does not come on at the beginning. The
> interface proceeds to allow me to leave a voice message.
>
> Have you seen this?
*Question:* Why can't skype use my webcam?
*Answer:* You probably need to preload v4l compatibility.

Try this:

LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libv4l/v4l1compat.so /usr/bin/skype
src: https://wiki.debian.org/skype

 HTH,
Kailash

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Re: skype pauses vlc [solved]

2015-05-14 Thread Paul Seyfert

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

> this is PulseAudio issue, and commenting string "load-module
> module-role-cork" in /etc/pulse/default.pa fixes it. After that restart
> pusleaudio process and also all apps that use pulseaudio (i.e. skype and
> vlc).

Hi Max,

exactly what i was looking for!

Thanks,
Paul
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Re: skype pauses vlc

2015-05-14 Thread Maxim Karpenko

Hi all,

I also had this issue, and till now didn't pay attention to it. Just made
some searching and then tried by myself:
this is PulseAudio issue, and commenting string "load-module
module-role-cork" in /etc/pulse/default.pa fixes it. After that restart
pusleaudio process and also all apps that use pulseaudio (i.e. skype and
vlc).

Regards,
Max

2015-05-14 20:06 GMT+03:00 Paulo Roberto :

> Hi Paul and Raph,
> In my case there is a behavior not so stable.
> Some times the Skype pause the audio in VLC and it does not resume and
> some times it resumes.
> I'm using the new testing.
>
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 1:32 PM, Ralph Katz  wrote:
>
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA512
>>
>> On 05/14/2015 08:50 AM, Paul Seyfert wrote [snipped]:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> > > since i upgraded from wheezie to jessie I observe that skype is able
>> to
>> > pause vlc as follows:
>> >
>> > vlc plays music
>> > skype is online
>> > someone writes me a message
>> > vlc pauses and skype makes its "blub"-sound to notify me about the
>> message
>> > vlc stays paused
>>
>> > vlc also gets paused when hitting the "play test sound" button in the
>> > skype configuration.
>> >
>> > Any hints how to prevent skype from sending pause signals?
>>
>> Hi Paul -- For me, vlc resumes after skype.  Perhaps tinkering with
>> pulseaudio can help?  I have not touched any settings.   aplay file.wav
>> does not get paused.  Hope this helps.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ralph
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>

Re: skype pauses vlc

2015-05-14 Thread Paulo Roberto

Hi Paul and Raph,
In my case there is a behavior not so stable.
Some times the Skype pause the audio in VLC and it does not resume and some
times it resumes.
I'm using the new testing.


On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 1:32 PM, Ralph Katz  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
>
> On 05/14/2015 08:50 AM, Paul Seyfert wrote [snipped]:
>
> > Hi,
> > > since i upgraded from wheezie to jessie I observe that skype is able to
> > pause vlc as follows:
> >
> > vlc plays music
> > skype is online
> > someone writes me a message
> > vlc pauses and skype makes its "blub"-sound to notify me about the
> message
> > vlc stays paused
>
> > vlc also gets paused when hitting the "play test sound" button in the
> > skype configuration.
> >
> > Any hints how to prevent skype from sending pause signals?
>
> Hi Paul -- For me, vlc resumes after skype.  Perhaps tinkering with
> pulseaudio can help?  I have not touched any settings.   aplay file.wav
> does not get paused.  Hope this helps.
>
> Regards,
> Ralph
>
>
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>
>
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Re: skype pauses vlc

2015-05-14 Thread Ralph Katz

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 05/14/2015 08:50 AM, Paul Seyfert wrote [snipped]:

> Hi,
> > since i upgraded from wheezie to jessie I observe that skype is able to
> pause vlc as follows:
> 
> vlc plays music
> skype is online
> someone writes me a message
> vlc pauses and skype makes its "blub"-sound to notify me about the message
> vlc stays paused

> vlc also gets paused when hitting the "play test sound" button in the
> skype configuration.
> 
> Any hints how to prevent skype from sending pause signals?

Hi Paul -- For me, vlc resumes after skype.  Perhaps tinkering with
pulseaudio can help?  I have not touched any settings.   aplay file.wav
does not get paused.  Hope this helps.

Regards,
Ralph


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Re: Skype, Pulseaudio, very quite output from a speaker ( fixed)

2015-02-15 Thread German

Here is the fix:

Skype has been known to mess up the mixer settings. So disable the 
automatic configuration of the mixer controls in Skype: right-click with your 
mouse on the Skype icon in the system tray - Options - Sound Devices - remove 
the tick at: Allow Skype to automatically adjust my mixer levels. Click Apply. 
Then close Skype (right-click with your mouse on the Skype icon - Quit).

Then use Synaptic Package Manager to install pavucontrol (Pulse Audio 
Volume Controller). Use that application to set up your input device. Most 
built-in mics are mono. The default setting on the Input Control is to lock the 
R&L channel together. By reading the mono mic as stereo, PulseAudio cancels the 
input. Click on the middle button on the upper right of the control panel to 
unlock the R&L channel. Move either the left or right channel to 10 leaving the 
other channel about 90. You should now see the VU meter sensing sound. Now 
start Skype again. The test call should register your voice now.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 09:03:38 -0300
Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI  wrote:

> On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 06:37:04 -0500
> German  wrote:
> 
> > Just installed Skype and when I make a test call, I got very quite output 
> > from the speakers. Is this bevaviour normal? I mean if I call someone would 
> > they hear me clear. I know, I really have to call someone, but don't have 
> > this opportunity as fo yet. Thanks for your thoughts.
> 
> I solved the same problem by setting the output volume in pavucontrol.
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Ron.
> -- 
>   Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember
>   what value there may be in owning a piece thereof.
>   -- National Lampoon, "Deteriorata"
> 
>-- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
>  
> 
> 
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> 

-- 
German 

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Re: Skype, Pulseaudio, very quite output from a speaker

2015-02-15 Thread German

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 09:03:38 -0300
Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI  wrote:

> On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 06:37:04 -0500
> German  wrote:
> 
> > Just installed Skype and when I make a test call, I got very quite output 
> > from the speakers. Is this bevaviour normal? I mean if I call someone would 
> > they hear me clear. I know, I really have to call someone, but don't have 
> > this opportunity as fo yet. Thanks for your thoughts.
> 
> I solved the same problem by setting the output volume in pavucontrol.

I've put my output to 153% and got somewhat better, but still very quite. 
Besides, Skype greetings and overall system sounds became very loud. Just for 
the heck of it, I installed Audicity and tried to record my voice. It was loud 
and clear.
So, I think that something to do with Pulsaudio and mic. I also have some 
cranking sounds


>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Ron.
> -- 
>   Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember
>   what value there may be in owning a piece thereof.
>   -- National Lampoon, "Deteriorata"
> 
>-- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
>  
> 
> 
> -- 
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> 


-- 
German 


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Re: Skype, Pulseaudio, very quite output from a speaker

2015-02-15 Thread Ron

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 06:37:04 -0500
German  wrote:

> Just installed Skype and when I make a test call, I got very quite output 
> from the speakers. Is this bevaviour normal? I mean if I call someone would 
> they hear me clear. I know, I really have to call someone, but don't have 
> this opportunity as fo yet. Thanks for your thoughts.

I solved the same problem by setting the output volume in pavucontrol.
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
  Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember
  what value there may be in owning a piece thereof.
  -- National Lampoon, "Deteriorata"

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 


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Re: Skype + Linux? was Jack: was Slight New Sound Problem

2014-09-18 Thread Raffaele Morelli

On 18/09/14 at 05:19pm, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2014 20:29:26 +0200
> Raffaele Morelli  wrote:
> 
> > On 18/09/14 at 11:09am, Steve Litt wrote:
> 
> > > My understanding of Jack (and please correct me if I'm wrong), is
> > > that it's like being able to patchcord together all sorts of
> > > software sound processor boxes, in whatever configuration I want.
> > > I'd *love* to be able to do that.
> > 
> > Yes, jack compliant applications can be routed from/to every where.
> > Non compliant apps can also be routed with little tweaking (eg.
> > flashplayer, skype)
> 
> Did I just hear you saying that the latest Skype, which no longer works
> with Linux without massive tweaks, can be made to work on Linux using
> Jack? That would give me plenty of incentive to try again!
> 

Nope, latest skype release dropped alsa support definitely, my fault.

-- 
« Nunc est bibendum, nunc pede libero pulsanda tellus »


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Re: Skype + Linux? was Jack: was Slight New Sound Problem

2014-09-18 Thread Brian

On Thu 18 Sep 2014 at 17:19:01 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Sep 2014 20:29:26 +0200
> Raffaele Morelli  wrote:
> > 
> > Yes, jack compliant applications can be routed from/to every where.
> > Non compliant apps can also be routed with little tweaking (eg.
> > flashplayer, skype)
> 
> Did I just hear you saying that the latest Skype, which no longer works
> with Linux without massive tweaks, can be made to work on Linux using
> Jack? That would give me plenty of incentive to try again!

Anyone reading this would gain the impression that getting latest Skype
working on Debian involves an enormous amount of work ("massive tweaks").
This is simply incorrect. Having to try again implies it wasn't done
correctly the first time round. 


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Re: skype error

2014-09-06 Thread Martin Steigerwald

Am Samstag, 6. September 2014, 19:17:52 schrieb Hans:
> > > What can be done with this?
> 
> You can try this little hack on the older linux version skype-4.2.:
> 
> - Install the 4.2 package.
> - start a hexeditor and open the file /usr/bin/skype
> - search for "4.2.0.11" and change this to "4.3.0.37"
> - save the file
> - restart skype and
> - voila! It is now connecting to the server again!
> 
> Good luck!

Is Skype 4.2 available for Squeeze?

I really just suggest upgrading to Wheezy.

Ciao,
-- 
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA  B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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Re: skype error

2014-09-06 Thread Hans


> > What can be done with this?

You can try this little hack on the older linux version skype-4.2.:

- Install the 4.2 package.
- start a hexeditor and open the file /usr/bin/skype
- search for "4.2.0.11" and change this to "4.3.0.37"
- save the file
- restart skype and 
- voila! It is now connecting to the server again!

Good luck!

Hans


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Re: skype error

2014-09-06 Thread Brian

On Sat 06 Sep 2014 at 23:21:41 +0700, Ivan Petrov wrote:

> I've installed skype 4.3 on my squeeze-64 with new libs copied from
> archive like here:
> http://community.skype.com/t5/Skype-%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F-Linux/Skype-4-3-%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F-Debian-Squeeze-6-amd64/td-p/3554479
> 
> But when I tried to use it I've got error message:
> skype: symbol lookup error: skype: undefined symbol: 
> _ZN19QAbstractProxyModel11setItemDataERK11QModelIndexRK4QMapIi8QVariantE
> 
> What can be done with this?

Probably nothing. If you are desperate to use Skype you will have to
upgrade to Wheezy.


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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-29 Thread Rob Owens

- Original Message -
> From: "Paul van der Vlis" 
> 
> > 3. Skype-compatible clients for D7++ which could be used to connect
> > directly to an OP running that alternate service?
> > 
> > I'm especially interested in evaluations of
> > 
> > https://wiki.debian.org/skype
> >> free and open source alternative[s,] community-owned and supported
> >> by Debian, such as the VoIP ekiga , linphone , or jitsi ?
> 
> I've tested Ekiga and Linphone. The problem of the SIP protocol is that
> it does not work very well behind NAT. And most people are behind a NAT
> router. I think XMPP is the better protocol, but using a VPN with SIP is
> maybe a good alternative (more compatible).
> 

These guys offer free SIP accounts that work around the NAT issue somehow.  I 
used it several years ago and it did work, and it didn't require the use of a 
STUN server.

http://www.iptel.org/service


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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-21 Thread Reco

 Hi.

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 11:40:48 +0800
Bret Busby  wrote:

> When I first saw the message above, I thought "This is all way beyone
> me - I have never done anything like work on Debian packages source
> code, or build a Debian package."
> 
> Then, it just occurred to me - maybe this is a thing for the Debian 6
> LTS project team?
> 
> It is a Debian 6 security issue, is it not?

This issue can be surely considered a security one, sure. There's a
catch, though - since Squeeze LTS provides support for the most
critical packages, but not all of them - it's unlikely that arora is
currently supported by this effort.

Still, filling a bug report won't hurt IMO.

Reco

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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-20 Thread Joel Wirāmu Pauling

I am a huge fan of Jitsi (http://jitsi.org) Does SIP, XMMP and
integrates with several others. Offers full OTR and Video/RTSP
encryption.

There are several SIP to SKYPE gateway providers out there which will
allow you to use any Sip client to make skype voice calls.

Jitsi's desktop app isn't the prettiest but they have a great dev team
committed to FLOSS and have a WEBRTC backend (jitsi meet) which is
also great.


-Joel

On 21 August 2014 15:40, Bret Busby  wrote:
> On 20/08/2014, Reco  wrote:
>>  Hi.
>>
>> On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:01:39 +0800
>> Bret Busby  wrote:
>>
>>> And, if the solution is to change that line
>>>
>>> "
>>> sslConfig.setProtocol( QSsl::TlsV1 );
>>> "
>>>
>>> where do I find that line, to make the change?
>>
>>
>> You'll have to change it in the Arora's source, then rebuild the
>> package. And, please note that:
>>
>> 1) Downgrading all https connections to SSLv3 is a bad thing from the
>> security viewpoint.
>>
>> 2) Exact syntax of sslConfig may differ. I assume that change should go
>> somewhere along the line 170 of src/network/networkaccessmanager.cpp,
>> but I may be wrong.
>>
>
> When I first saw the message above, I thought "This is all way beyone
> me - I have never done anything like work on Debian packages source
> code, or build a Debian package."
>
> Then, it just occurred to me - maybe this is a thing for the Debian 6
> LTS project team?
>
> It is a Debian 6 security issue, is it not?
>
> --
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> ..
>
> "So once you do know what the question actually is,
>  you'll know what the answer means."
> - Deep Thought,
>  Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
>  "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
>  A Trilogy In Four Parts",
>  written by Douglas Adams,
>  published by Pan Books, 1992
>
> 
>
>
> --
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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-20 Thread Bret Busby

On 20/08/2014, Reco  wrote:
>  Hi.
>
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:01:39 +0800
> Bret Busby  wrote:
>
>> And, if the solution is to change that line
>>
>> "
>> sslConfig.setProtocol( QSsl::TlsV1 );
>> "
>>
>> where do I find that line, to make the change?
>
>
> You'll have to change it in the Arora's source, then rebuild the
> package. And, please note that:
>
> 1) Downgrading all https connections to SSLv3 is a bad thing from the
> security viewpoint.
>
> 2) Exact syntax of sslConfig may differ. I assume that change should go
> somewhere along the line 170 of src/network/networkaccessmanager.cpp,
> but I may be wrong.
>

When I first saw the message above, I thought "This is all way beyone
me - I have never done anything like work on Debian packages source
code, or build a Debian package."

Then, it just occurred to me - maybe this is a thing for the Debian 6
LTS project team?

It is a Debian 6 security issue, is it not?

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-20 Thread Reco

 Hi.

On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:01:39 +0800
Bret Busby  wrote:

> And, if the solution is to change that line
> 
> "
> sslConfig.setProtocol( QSsl::TlsV1 );
> "
> 
> where do I find that line, to make the change?

You'll have to change it in the Arora's source, then rebuild the
package. And, please note that:

1) Downgrading all https connections to SSLv3 is a bad thing from the
security viewpoint.

2) Exact syntax of sslConfig may differ. I assume that change should go
somewhere along the line 170 of src/network/networkaccessmanager.cpp,
but I may be wrong.

If you're in hurry - I suggest you to try Firefox (Iceweasel).

Reco

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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-20 Thread Bret Busby

On 20/08/2014, Reco  wrote:
>  Hi.
>
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 12:06:26 +0800
> Bret Busby  wrote:
>
>> > :~$ openssl s_client -host bistri.com -port 443 -showcerts
>
> I got the same certificates from this server as you. Which, since we're
> obviously using different ISP, is a good thing. Moreover, server's
> certificate has:
>
> Validity
>   Not Before: Jan  6 15:27:32 2014 GMT
>   Not After : Feb 20 15:08:03 2015 GMT
>
>
>> > :~$ dig bistri.com
>> > ;; ANSWER SECTION:
>> > bistri.com.60  IN  A   176.34.185.176
>
> But, this one seems odd to me. For me bistri.com appears to be at
> Amazon EC2:
>
> bistri.com. 260 IN  A   54.247.183.129
>
>
>> Oh, and the web browser being used, is Arora (with javascript
>> disabled), running on Debian 6 amd64 LTS.
>
> Maybe you're hitting a qt bug like this:
>
> https://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/19690
>
> Reco
>

Hello.

On that web page, the solution appears to be in the message;

"
Finally I got it to work! :-) I don’t quite understand it completely
yet, but I do understand that openssl on 12.04 seems to be really
messy after all the bug reports I’ve read. But anyway, I simply had to
replace:
sslConfig.setProtocol( QSsl::TlsV1 );
with
sslConfig.setProtocol( QSsl::SslV3 );
then at least for this specific site it works and for now this is good
enough for me.
"

>From the other messages in that web page, is the problem, a problem
with the handling of SSL, in Debian 6 LTS, or, is it a problem with
the handling of SSL, in Arora?

And, if the solution is to change that line

"
sslConfig.setProtocol( QSsl::TlsV1 );
"

where do I find that line, to make the change?

Thank you in anticipation.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-20 Thread Reco

 Hi.

On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 12:06:26 +0800
Bret Busby  wrote:

> > :~$ openssl s_client -host bistri.com -port 443 -showcerts

I got the same certificates from this server as you. Which, since we're
obviously using different ISP, is a good thing. Moreover, server's
certificate has:

Validity
  Not Before: Jan  6 15:27:32 2014 GMT
  Not After : Feb 20 15:08:03 2015 GMT


> > :~$ dig bistri.com
> > ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> > bistri.com. 60  IN  A   176.34.185.176

But, this one seems odd to me. For me bistri.com appears to be at
Amazon EC2:

bistri.com. 260 IN  A   54.247.183.129


> Oh, and the web browser being used, is Arora (with javascript
> disabled), running on Debian 6 amd64 LTS.

Maybe you're hitting a qt bug like this:

https://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/19690

Reco


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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-19 Thread Bret Busby

On 20/08/2014, Bret Busby  wrote:
> On 19/08/2014, Reco  wrote:
>>  Hi.
>>
>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 14:17:25 +0800
>> Bret Busby  wrote:
>>
>>> "
>>> SSL Errors:
>>>
>>> for: https://bistri.com/
>>> The certificate has expired
>>> Do you want to ignore these errors?
>>> "
>>
>> Hmm. It appears that they practicing SSL Bump where you live. Can you
>> please post the output of:
>>
>> openssl s_client -host bistri.com -port 443 -showcerts
>>
>> dig bistri.com
>>
>> Reco
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>
>
> See below.
>
> --
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> ..
>
> "So once you do know what the question actually is,
>  you'll know what the answer means."
> - Deep Thought,
>  Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
>  "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
>  A Trilogy In Four Parts",
>  written by Douglas Adams,
>  published by Pan Books, 1992
>
> 
>
> :~$ openssl s_client -host bistri.com -port 443 -showcerts
> CONNECTED(0003)
> depth=1 /O=AlphaSSL/CN=AlphaSSL CA - G2
> verify error:num=20:unable to get local issuer certificate
> verify return:0
> ---
> Certificate chain
>  0 s:/OU=Domain Control Validated/CN=*.bistri.com
>i:/O=AlphaSSL/CN=AlphaSSL CA - G2
> -BEGIN CERTIFICATE-
> MIIEoTCCA4mgAwIBAgISESFcs46SSBuSGOuZib47rm0QMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUA
> MC4xETAPBgNVBAoTCEFscGhhU1NMMRkwFwYDVQQDExBBbHBoYVNTTCBDQSAtIEcy
> MB4XDTE0MDEwNjE1MjczMloXDTE1MDIyMDE1MDgwM1owOjEhMB8GA1UECxMYRG9t
> YWluIENvbnRyb2wgVmFsaWRhdGVkMRUwEwYDVQQDDAwqLmJpc3RyaS5jb20wggEi
> MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDfSw1PiJTd5d6FrvWr6h5SQcVc
> mvTcsjOkb9kz3a9err3mxeSgK2MGgvZTKpRireZcyZT+49Vhm1t8646RufAoXbYN
> VNTMB72M1TTub1nm1D3Yp8JZcLC0VxUqC2i9ahufiAz1v8fn+GTv8R7bUEzIIUnV
> Ti5A+RQdWNpS82xr7w2xAt/wQkKYls4KxBDAVZ6Q/qzDV5Aq3O19DQpfRXaaGbHV
> X8+/bn73cBiB4yi+CxYCtQ6irtOrtYa5Qgf5ErwForXqka7NTiZecfebyITwamjf
> Le5OLDWVclB+JikvN1oTKDkV7V+QFFSH6XOF7Vg8sWB16z3pf/i8eSL0LsidAgMB
> AAGjggGrMIIBpzAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCBaAwSQYDVR0gBEIwQDA+BgZngQwBAgEw
> NDAyBggrBgEFBQcCARYmaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ2xvYmFsc2lnbi5jb20vcmVwb3Np
> dG9yeS8wIwYDVR0RBBwwGoIMKi5iaXN0cmkuY29tggpiaXN0cmkuY29tMAkGA1Ud
> EwQCMAAwHQYDVR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUHAwEGCCsGAQUFBwMCMDoGA1UdHwQzMDEw
> L6AtoCuGKWh0dHA6Ly9jcmwyLmFscGhhc3NsLmNvbS9ncy9nc2FscGhhZzIuY3Js
> MH8GCCsGAQUFBwEBBHMwcTA8BggrBgEFBQcwAoYwaHR0cDovL3NlY3VyZTIuYWxw
> aGFzc2wuY29tL2NhY2VydC9nc2FscGhhZzIuY3J0MDEGCCsGAQUFBzABhiVodHRw
> Oi8vb2NzcDIuZ2xvYmFsc2lnbi5jb20vZ3NhbHBoYWcyMB0GA1UdDgQWBBTsS8sy
> 58zT4gfBcW+970y6lb7DYTAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBQU6hlV8A4NMsYfdDO3jmYaTBIx
> HjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFAAOCAQEAMvVhSF7sJtNZh/fpitHFdPteDTJALAPzN2zX
> ymQAhMkQLJQzSVGc6AW5DqjNEO/wEUvxoj/pfrrYKsHUmbqlVz3qDRgzXW156NSL
> C8IuUggvpyYF/lm/CU3GuIeROygHLnauSjlwONd2fAhmSz8zGhsGnRei8jGtqWUM
> rHOzmWib/igh+D6IjTTEOs9gu8+p3YkVL0WIzg9+jcLgTj2w5h7EZc/wbjZlIN+s
> rv5CvSIPrhdY4x1gOWZn1bjlNA8Qlrz57Pt+hiKhCdLLBtwR4QkZ1BirVWBRX2Zs
> vgVFJzlTVK6cutyiwYeYpruVK6tqF2XlCszjzQR3I0Dm/Gii9Q==
> -END CERTIFICATE-
>  1 s:/O=AlphaSSL/CN=AlphaSSL CA - G2
>i:/C=BE/O=GlobalSign nv-sa/OU=Root CA/CN=GlobalSign Root CA
> -BEGIN CERTIFICATE-
> MIIELzCCAxegAwIBAgILBAABL07hNwIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwVzELMAkG
> A1UEBhMCQkUxGTAXBgNVBAoTEEdsb2JhbFNpZ24gbnYtc2ExEDAOBgNVBAsTB1Jv
> b3QgQ0ExGzAZBgNVBAMTEkdsb2JhbFNpZ24gUm9vdCBDQTAeFw0xMTA0MTMxMDAw
> MDBaFw0yMjA0MTMxMDAwMDBaMC4xETAPBgNVBAoTCEFscGhhU1NMMRkwFwYDVQQD
> ExBBbHBoYVNTTCBDQSAtIEcyMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKC
> AQEAw/BliN8b3caChy/JC7pUxmM/RnWsSxQfmHKLHBD/CalSbi9l32WEP1+Bstjx
> T9fwWrvJr9Ax3SZGKpme2KmjtrgHxMlx95WE79LqH1Sg5b7kQSFWMRBkfR5jjpxx
> XDygLt5n3MiaIPB1yLC2J4Hrlw3uIkWlwi80J+zgWRJRsx4F5Tgg0mlZelkXvhpL
> OQgSeTObZGj+WIHdiAxqulm0ryRPYeDK/Bda0jxyq6dMt7nqLeP0P5miTcgdWPh/
> UzWO1yKIt2F2CBMTaWawV1kTMQpwgiuT1/biQBXQHQFyxxNYalrsGYkWPODIjYYq
> +jfwNTLd7OX+gI73BWe0i0J1NQIDAQABo4IBIzCCAR8wDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgEG
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> AQEABjBCm89JAn6J6fWDWj0C87yyRt5KUO65mpBz2qBcJsqCrA6ts5T6KC6y5kk/
> UHcOlS9o82U8nxTyaGCStvwEDfakGKFpYA3jnWhbvJ4LOFmNIdoj+pmKCbkfpy61
> VWxH50Hs5uJ/r1VEOeCsdO5l0/qrUUgw8T53be3kD0CY7kd/jbZYJ82Sb2AjzAKb
> WSh4olGd0Eqc5ZNemI/L7z/K/uCvpMlbbkBYpZItvV1lVcW/fARB2aS1gOmUYAIQ
> OGoICNdTHC2Tr8kTe9RsxDrE+4CsuzpOVHrNTrM+7fH8EU6f9fMUvLmxMc72qi+l
> +MPpZqmyIJ3E+LgDYqeF0RhjWw==
> -END CERTIFICATE-
> ---
> Server certificate
> subject=/OU=Domain Control Validated/CN=*.bistri.com
> issuer=/O=AlphaSSL/CN=AlphaSSL CA - G2
> ---
> No client certifica

Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-19 Thread Bret Busby

On 19/08/2014, Jerry Stuckle  wrote:
> On 8/19/2014 2:17 AM, Bret Busby wrote:
>>
>> "
>> SSL Errors:
>>
>> for: https://bistri.com/
>> The certificate has expired
>> Do you want to ignore these errors?
>> "
>>
>
> The certificate is valid from 1/6/2014 to 2/20/2015.  Are you sure your
> system time is set correctly?
>
> Jerry
>

I believe that the system time is shown in the message full header, in
the Date (of message sending) field.


-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-19 Thread Bret Busby

On 19/08/2014, Reco  wrote:
>  Hi.
>
> On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 14:17:25 +0800
> Bret Busby  wrote:
>
>> "
>> SSL Errors:
>>
>> for: https://bistri.com/
>> The certificate has expired
>> Do you want to ignore these errors?
>> "
>
> Hmm. It appears that they practicing SSL Bump where you live. Can you
> please post the output of:
>
> openssl s_client -host bistri.com -port 443 -showcerts
>
> dig bistri.com
>
> Reco
>
>
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>


See below.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992



:~$ openssl s_client -host bistri.com -port 443 -showcerts
CONNECTED(0003)
depth=1 /O=AlphaSSL/CN=AlphaSSL CA - G2
verify error:num=20:unable to get local issuer certificate
verify return:0
---
Certificate chain
 0 s:/OU=Domain Control Validated/CN=*.bistri.com
   i:/O=AlphaSSL/CN=AlphaSSL CA - G2
-BEGIN CERTIFICATE-
MIIEoTCCA4mgAwIBAgISESFcs46SSBuSGOuZib47rm0QMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUA
MC4xETAPBgNVBAoTCEFscGhhU1NMMRkwFwYDVQQDExBBbHBoYVNTTCBDQSAtIEcy
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vgVFJzlTVK6cutyiwYeYpruVK6tqF2XlCszjzQR3I0Dm/Gii9Q==
-END CERTIFICATE-
 1 s:/O=AlphaSSL/CN=AlphaSSL CA - G2
   i:/C=BE/O=GlobalSign nv-sa/OU=Root CA/CN=GlobalSign Root CA
-BEGIN CERTIFICATE-
MIIELzCCAxegAwIBAgILBAABL07hNwIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwVzELMAkG
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OGoICNdTHC2Tr8kTe9RsxDrE+4CsuzpOVHrNTrM+7fH8EU6f9fMUvLmxMc72qi+l
+MPpZqmyIJ3E+LgDYqeF0RhjWw==
-END CERTIFICATE-
---
Server certificate
subject=/OU=Domain Control Validated/CN=*.bistri.com
issuer=/O=AlphaSSL/CN=AlphaSSL CA - G2
---
No client certificate CA names sent
---
SSL handshake has read 2436 bytes and written 447 bytes
---
New, TLSv1/SSLv3, Cipher is AES256-SHA
Server public key is 2048 bit
Secure Renegotiation IS supported
Compression: NONE
Expansion: NONE
SSL-Session:
Proto

Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-19 Thread Steve Litt

I'm getting that same Skype-no-sound problem you mention.

Thanks,

steveT

On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 21:03:44 +0100
Michael Jones  wrote:

> New version socks, no audio due to the removal of alsa support
> On 19 Aug 2014 16:15, "Andrew McGlashan" <
> andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au> wrote:
> 
> > On 20/08/2014 12:22 AM, Ralph Katz wrote:
> > > Steve Gibson reports, "Secure browser connections can be
> > > intercepted and decrypted..."   Worth a look:
> > >
> > > https://www.grc.com/fingerprints.htm
> >
> > Got a good fingerprint in my browser, it matches from the Gibson
> > tool
> >
> > 2C:A6:F7:D4:76:A4:B9:BF:2D:85:88:4B:71:B9:46:4D:6D:E8:F6:81
> >
> > [I am also in AU like Bret Busby, but on the East side, whilst he
> > is on the West side...]
> >
> > Cheers
> > A.
> >
> >


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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-19 Thread Martin Steigerwald

Am Dienstag, 19. August 2014, 16:59:45 schrieb Haines Brown:
> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 09:03:44PM +0100, Michael Jones wrote:
> > New version socks, no audio due to the removal of alsa support
> 
> I have similar problem, no audio with new version.
> 
> So let me ask, did you install pulseaudio and doing that didn't help?
> How do you know that the problem is due to shift to pulseaudio and not
> for some other reason? Can an old version of Skype be installed until
> the problem with the new is resolved?

See the other thread about hex editing the new version into a 4.2 binary :)

-- 
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA  B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-19 Thread Haines Brown

On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 09:03:44PM +0100, Michael Jones wrote:
> New version socks, no audio due to the removal of alsa support

I have similar problem, no audio with new version. 

So let me ask, did you install pulseaudio and doing that didn't help?
How do you know that the problem is due to shift to pulseaudio and not
for some other reason? Can an old version of Skype be installed until
the problem with the new is resolved?

Haines


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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-19 Thread Michael Jones

New version socks, no audio due to the removal of alsa support
On 19 Aug 2014 16:15, "Andrew McGlashan" <
andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au> wrote:

> On 20/08/2014 12:22 AM, Ralph Katz wrote:
> > Steve Gibson reports, "Secure browser connections can be intercepted
> > and decrypted..."   Worth a look:
> >
> > https://www.grc.com/fingerprints.htm
>
> Got a good fingerprint in my browser, it matches from the Gibson tool
>
> 2C:A6:F7:D4:76:A4:B9:BF:2D:85:88:4B:71:B9:46:4D:6D:E8:F6:81
>
> [I am also in AU like Bret Busby, but on the East side, whilst he is on
> the West side...]
>
> Cheers
> A.
>
>

Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-19 Thread Andrew McGlashan

On 20/08/2014 12:22 AM, Ralph Katz wrote:
> Steve Gibson reports, "Secure browser connections can be intercepted
> and decrypted..."   Worth a look:
> 
> https://www.grc.com/fingerprints.htm

Got a good fingerprint in my browser, it matches from the Gibson tool

2C:A6:F7:D4:76:A4:B9:BF:2D:85:88:4B:71:B9:46:4D:6D:E8:F6:81

[I am also in AU like Bret Busby, but on the East side, whilst he is on
the West side...]

Cheers
A.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-19 Thread Reco

 Hi.

On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 14:17:25 +0800
Bret Busby  wrote:

> "
> SSL Errors:
> 
> for: https://bistri.com/
> The certificate has expired
> Do you want to ignore these errors?
> "

Hmm. It appears that they practicing SSL Bump where you live. Can you
please post the output of:

openssl s_client -host bistri.com -port 443 -showcerts

dig bistri.com

Reco


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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-19 Thread Ralph Katz

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 08/19/2014 02:31 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Tuesday 19 August 2014 07:17:25 Bret Busby wrote:
[snip]
>>> When I went to look at that web site, I repeatedly got "The 
>>> certificate at (, even
>>> though I was trying to get to only the home page of the web
>>> site, in the first instance - I could not even get to the home
>>> page) has expired - do you want to ignore this error", I
>>> clicked on the "Yes" option. I did that about ten or twenty
>>> times, and then my web browser crashed.
> [snip]
>> SSL Errors:
>> 
>> for: https://bistri.com/ The certificate has expired Do you want
>> to ignore these errors?
> 
> I just clicked on your own hyperlink above and got straight
> through.  I usually get warnings of expired certificates.
> 
> Whatever your problem is, it appears not to be with the site.
> 
> Lisi

Steve Gibson reports, "Secure browser connections can be intercepted
and decrypted..."   Worth a look:

https://www.grc.com/fingerprints.htm

Regards,
Ralph

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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-19 Thread Jerry Stuckle

On 8/19/2014 2:17 AM, Bret Busby wrote:
> 
> "
> SSL Errors:
> 
> for: https://bistri.com/
> The certificate has expired
> Do you want to ignore these errors?
> "
> 

The certificate is valid from 1/6/2014 to 2/20/2015.  Are you sure your
system time is set correctly?

Jerry


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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-19 Thread Brad Rogers

On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 14:17:25 +0800
Bret Busby  wrote:

Hello Bret,

>SSL Errors:

Like Lisi, I got no such problem.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
Life's short, don't make a mess of it
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pgpGfqI_8MjDz.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-19 Thread Zenaan Harkness

On 8/11/14, Brian  wrote:
> On Sun 10 Aug 2014 at 14:55:23 -0400, Tom Roche wrote:
>> 1. Skype-compatible clients for D7++ which could be used to connect
>> directly to an OP running Skype?
>
> The Skype network is a network relying on proprietry protocols to access
> it. The only software which has the necessary knowledge of those
> protocols is the Skype program. There are no Skype-compatible clients
> other than what the Skype company provides.

That would be, Microsoft.


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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-18 Thread Lisi Reisz

On Tuesday 19 August 2014 07:17:25 Bret Busby wrote:
> On 19/08/2014, Bret Busby  wrote:
> > On 19/08/2014, Paul van der Vlis  wrote:
> >> op 10-08-14 20:55, Tom Roche schreef:
> >>> Having recently received the Skype email requiring reinstall with new
> >>> version, I'd like to learn more about available, working substitutes
> >>> for Skype for D7/wheezy, possibly current testing/jessie, and maybe
> >>> even more robust bits of sid. (For brevity, I'll refer to that
> >>> collectively as "D7++".) Particularly I'm interested in the following
> >>> usecase: someone receives request from OP to do an interview by
> >>> Skype, the service with which the OP is most familiar. Are there,
> >>> e.g.,
> >>>
> >>> 1. Skype-compatible clients for D7++ which could be used to connect
> >>> directly to an OP running Skype?
> >>
> >> There are no Skype compatible clients.
> >>
> >>> 2. Alternate services (e.g., Google Hangout) with ease-of-use
> >>> sufficiently approximate to Skype that the D7++ user could reasonably
> >>> propose to an OP of {usual, not very strong} IT-literacy?
> >>
> >> For about a month I've tested an online service called Bistri:
> >> https://bistri.com/
> >> It worked fine with Chromium, but not with Iceweasel then (maybe it
> >> works now with a newer version).
> >
> > That web site is all https, even for looking for information about the
> > application, and, the home page itself.
> >
> > I have just done a system update (Debian 6 LTS), which included a
> > number of libraries, including SSL libraries (I mention this here,
> > because I do not know whether that is the cause of the problem).
> >
> > When I went to look at that web site, I repeatedly got "The
> > certificate at (, even though I
> > was trying to get to only the home page of the web site, in the first
> > instance - I could not even get to the home page) has expired - do you
> > want to ignore this error", I clicked on the "Yes" option. I did that
> > about ten or twenty times, and then my web browser crashed.
[snip]
> SSL Errors:
>
> for: https://bistri.com/
> The certificate has expired
> Do you want to ignore these errors?

I just clicked on your own hyperlink above and got straight through.  I 
usually get warnings of expired certificates.

Whatever your problem is, it appears not to be with the site.

Lisi


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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-18 Thread Bret Busby

On 19/08/2014, Bret Busby  wrote:
> On 19/08/2014, Paul van der Vlis  wrote:
>> op 10-08-14 20:55, Tom Roche schreef:
>>>
>>> Having recently received the Skype email requiring reinstall with new
>>> version, I'd like to learn more about available, working substitutes
>>> for Skype for D7/wheezy, possibly current testing/jessie, and maybe
>>> even more robust bits of sid. (For brevity, I'll refer to that
>>> collectively as "D7++".) Particularly I'm interested in the following
>>> usecase: someone receives request from OP to do an interview by
>>> Skype, the service with which the OP is most familiar. Are there,
>>> e.g.,
>>>
>>> 1. Skype-compatible clients for D7++ which could be used to connect
>>> directly to an OP running Skype?
>>
>> There are no Skype compatible clients.
>>
>>> 2. Alternate services (e.g., Google Hangout) with ease-of-use
>>> sufficiently approximate to Skype that the D7++ user could reasonably
>>> propose to an OP of {usual, not very strong} IT-literacy?
>>
>> For about a month I've tested an online service called Bistri:
>> https://bistri.com/
>> It worked fine with Chromium, but not with Iceweasel then (maybe it
>> works now with a newer version).
>>
>
> That web site is all https, even for looking for information about the
> application, and, the home page itself.
>
> I have just done a system update (Debian 6 LTS), which included a
> number of libraries, including SSL libraries (I mention this here,
> because I do not know whether that is the cause of the problem).
>
> When I went to look at that web site, I repeatedly got "The
> certificate at (, even though I
> was trying to get to only the home page of the web site, in the first
> instance - I could not even get to the home page) has expired - do you
> want to ignore this error", I clicked on the "Yes" option. I did that
> about ten or twenty times, and then my web browser crashed.
>
> So, they can put that web site, where it hurts.
>
> When web sites make even their home pages, malware, they have no place
> in the World Wide Web.
>
> --
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> ..
>
> "So once you do know what the question actually is,
>  you'll know what the answer means."
> - Deep Thought,
>  Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
>  "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
>  A Trilogy In Four Parts",
>  written by Douglas Adams,
>  published by Pan Books, 1992
>
> 
>

"
SSL Errors:

for: https://bistri.com/
The certificate has expired
Do you want to ignore these errors?
"

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-18 Thread Bret Busby

On 19/08/2014, Paul van der Vlis  wrote:
> op 10-08-14 20:55, Tom Roche schreef:
>>
>> Having recently received the Skype email requiring reinstall with new
>> version, I'd like to learn more about available, working substitutes
>> for Skype for D7/wheezy, possibly current testing/jessie, and maybe
>> even more robust bits of sid. (For brevity, I'll refer to that
>> collectively as "D7++".) Particularly I'm interested in the following
>> usecase: someone receives request from OP to do an interview by
>> Skype, the service with which the OP is most familiar. Are there,
>> e.g.,
>>
>> 1. Skype-compatible clients for D7++ which could be used to connect
>> directly to an OP running Skype?
>
> There are no Skype compatible clients.
>
>> 2. Alternate services (e.g., Google Hangout) with ease-of-use
>> sufficiently approximate to Skype that the D7++ user could reasonably
>> propose to an OP of {usual, not very strong} IT-literacy?
>
> For about a month I've tested an online service called Bistri:
> https://bistri.com/
> It worked fine with Chromium, but not with Iceweasel then (maybe it
> works now with a newer version).
>

That web site is all https, even for looking for information about the
application, and, the home page itself.

I have just done a system update (Debian 6 LTS), which included a
number of libraries, including SSL libraries (I mention this here,
because I do not know whether that is the cause of the problem).

When I went to look at that web site, I repeatedly got "The
certificate at (, even though I
was trying to get to only the home page of the web site, in the first
instance - I could not even get to the home page) has expired - do you
want to ignore this error", I clicked on the "Yes" option. I did that
about ten or twenty times, and then my web browser crashed.

So, they can put that web site, where it hurts.

When web sites make even their home pages, malware, they have no place
in the World Wide Web.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992

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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-18 Thread Paul van der Vlis

op 10-08-14 20:55, Tom Roche schreef:
> 
> Having recently received the Skype email requiring reinstall with new
> version, I'd like to learn more about available, working substitutes
> for Skype for D7/wheezy, possibly current testing/jessie, and maybe
> even more robust bits of sid. (For brevity, I'll refer to that
> collectively as "D7++".) Particularly I'm interested in the following
> usecase: someone receives request from OP to do an interview by
> Skype, the service with which the OP is most familiar. Are there,
> e.g.,
> 
> 1. Skype-compatible clients for D7++ which could be used to connect
> directly to an OP running Skype?

There are no Skype compatible clients.

> 2. Alternate services (e.g., Google Hangout) with ease-of-use
> sufficiently approximate to Skype that the D7++ user could reasonably
> propose to an OP of {usual, not very strong} IT-literacy?

For about a month I've tested an online service called Bistri:
https://bistri.com/
It worked fine with Chromium, but not with Iceweasel then (maybe it
works now with a newer version).

The other side does not need to register with Bistri, Only clicking on a
link is enough to connect to you.

I think web-based is a good idea.

> 3. Skype-compatible clients for D7++ which could be used to connect
> directly to an OP running that alternate service?
> 
> I'm especially interested in evaluations of
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/skype
>> free and open source alternative[s,] community-owned and supported
>> by Debian, such as the VoIP ekiga , linphone , or jitsi ?

I've tested Ekiga and Linphone. The problem of the SIP protocol is that
it does not work very well behind NAT. And most people are behind a NAT
router. I think XMPP is the better protocol, but using a VPN with SIP is
maybe a good alternative (more compatible).

A problem is that the other side needs to have something what's
compatible with you. It seems that Jitsi is a good client, but it's Java
and I am always a bit sceptical about Java.

But I think it's the best to look at online services.
Because it's more easy for the other side (no installation).

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis.






-- 
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer, Groningen
http://www.vandervlis.nl


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Re: Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-17 Thread Dominique Dumont

On Monday 11 August 2014 12:09:07 Bret Busby wrote:
> Is the new version available in 64 bit (for Debian amd64 7.x), or, is
> it limited to 32 bit, with 32 bit stuff to enable it to run on 64 bit
> operating systems ,

32 bits

> and, is the new version available as a .deb
> package?

yes.

You should install this package with gdebi, so all dependencies are installed 
from Debian archive.

HTH


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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-10 Thread Bret Busby

On 11/08/2014, Brian  wrote:
> On Sun 10 Aug 2014 at 14:55:23 -0400, Tom Roche wrote:
>
>> Having recently received the Skype email requiring reinstall with new
>> version, I'd like to learn more about available, working substitutes
>> for Skype for D7/wheezy, possibly current testing/jessie, and maybe
>> even more robust bits of sid. (For brevity, I'll refer to that
>> collectively as "D7++".) Particularly I'm interested in the following
>> usecase: someone receives request from OP to do an interview by Skype,
>> the service with which the OP is most familiar. Are there, e.g.,
>>
>> 1. Skype-compatible clients for D7++ which could be used to connect
>> directly to an OP running Skype?
>
> The Skype network is a network relying on proprietry protocols to access
> it. The only software which has the necessary knowledge of those
> protocols is the Skype program. There are no Skype-compatible clients
> other than what the Skype company provides.
>
> Install the new version and be done with it.
>
>

Is the new version available in 64 bit (for Debian amd64 7.x), or, is
it limited to 32 bit, with 32 bit stuff to enable it to run on 64 bit
operating systems , and, is the new version available as a .deb
package?


-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




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Re: Skype substitutes for current Debian?

2014-08-10 Thread Brian

On Sun 10 Aug 2014 at 14:55:23 -0400, Tom Roche wrote:

> Having recently received the Skype email requiring reinstall with new
> version, I'd like to learn more about available, working substitutes
> for Skype for D7/wheezy, possibly current testing/jessie, and maybe
> even more robust bits of sid. (For brevity, I'll refer to that
> collectively as "D7++".) Particularly I'm interested in the following
> usecase: someone receives request from OP to do an interview by Skype,
> the service with which the OP is most familiar. Are there, e.g.,
> 
> 1. Skype-compatible clients for D7++ which could be used to connect
> directly to an OP running Skype?

The Skype network is a network relying on proprietry protocols to access
it. The only software which has the necessary knowledge of those
protocols is the Skype program. There are no Skype-compatible clients
other than what the Skype company provides.

Install the new version and be done with it.


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Re: [OT] [politics] Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-10 Thread Lisi Reisz

On Saturday 09 August 2014 21:42:32 Iain M Conochie wrote:
> I find it interesting that you feel more in control of a privately
> funded corporation than a legitimate arm of a sovereign government. It
> is obvious what the NSA want to do (snoop), I'm not so sure what google
> want to do.
>
> Almost 300 million US citizens have the ability to curtail the NSA's
> behaviour if enough of 'em want to make something of it; this is their
> constitutional right.

And the rest of us are at their mercy.

Speaking personally, I feel less threatened by Google, though the fact that it 
is an American corporation does give me pause.

Lisi


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[OT] [politics] Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-09 Thread Iain M Conochie



On 03/08/14 00:21, Joel Rees wrote:


Google has too much money and is out of control.

The NSA has too much money and is out of our control.

I find it interesting that you feel more in control of a privately 
funded corporation than a legitimate arm of a sovereign government. It 
is obvious what the NSA want to do (snoop), I'm not so sure what google 
want to do.


Almost 300 million US citizens have the ability to curtail the NSA's 
behaviour if enough of 'em want to make something of it; this is their 
constitutional right.


Don't believe the hype, corporations are in no way in our control.

Iain


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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-07 Thread Bret Busby

On 03/08/2014, Mark Carroll  wrote:
> Bret Busby  writes:
>
>> On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan 
>> wrote:
>>> On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote:
 On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:

>
> At least that you've noticed. (-: A persistently irritating problem with
> both Skype and Google Hangouts, at least for me, is that they have
> consistently worked far better and more reliably than any of the
> open-source alternatives! However, Skype don't even seem to bother
> offering amd64 packages so, as with acroread, I run it from a 32-bit
> chroot -- I thus guess that their interest in supporting Linux is
> minimal. (I am also irritated with how Google's package sneakily adds
> its own /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ file.)
>

There's an interesting point - from what I understand, Skype (at
least, Skype for Linux - I am not sure about Skype for Windows, and, I
regard MS Windows to be too risky to connect to the Internet) is not
available, now, in a 64 bit version - that it has to be installed as a
32 bit system, with 32 bit stuff needing to be installed to run it.

I guess that it is a matter of Microsft needing to maintain its
reputation, as a World Leader In Failing To Keep Up With Technology.

>From memory, when the 80486 CPU was released into production, we (it
might have been at university, I think - it was so many years ago,
now) were told that the available version of Microsoft Windows, that
came with 486 computers, was unable to make proper use of the 486
technology - that to make full use of the 486 technology, UNIX was
required. From memory, it was to do with multi-threading, where MS
Windows 95 (I think that that was the version of MS Windows, that was
supplied in the Wintel 486 systems) could only run a single task at a
time, and, whilst UNIX had previously used pre-emptive multitasking;
switching between tasks, to enable multitasking, with the capability
of the 80486 CPU, multithreading was available, and, MS Windows simply
did not provide for it, whereas, from memory, UNIX did. I remember
seeing a video of a presentation, to do with the Mach kernel, which
enalbled mutithreadiung, from memory, the Mach kernel coming from
Cornell University, from memory, and, I think that this might have
been when (I could have the timeline a bit wrong, but, it is as I
remember it) Linux (before version 1) had just had a patch released,
that allowed it to run on the 80386 CPU.

As I said, the timeline, to do with the 0.9x version of Linux, could
be wrong, but I distinctly remember being told, that Microsoft
Windows, as available in the Wintel 486 systems, was unable to fully
use the capacity of the 80486 CPU, and, was a little bit like running
MS -DOS 6 (which may have been the version of DOS, that was
ioncorporated in MS Windows 95), on an 80486 CPU.

So, I believe that Skype for Linux, is not available as a 64 bit
version, and, I believe that Skype For Linux, is not as easily
installable as Skype 2.2.0.x (mine is 2.2.0.35), which I have as
skype-debian_2.2.0.35-1_amd64.deb , which, from memory, simply needed
to be downloaded and, then installed, using a package manager such as
Synaptic, and, so, I believe that this is simply indicative of the
premise that Microsoft is simply working to maintain its reuttation as
a World Leader In Failing To Keep Up With Technology (I wonder whether
an award exists, for that), as the version of Skype that I have, which
worked, before being banned by Microsoft, due to it being something
that worked, was from before Microsoft took over Skype, I believe.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992

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Re: Australian law was: Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-04 Thread Joel Rees

Well, now maybe I can find a place to sort of drag this thread back
almost on topic for the list.

On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Andrew McGlashan
 wrote:
> On 4/08/2014 9:04 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
>> On Monday 04 August 2014 09:44:31 Andrew McGlashan wrote:
>>> I wonder about Kirby myself.  To me, it shouldn't be the court deciding
>>> a matter of fact via *their* opinion.  If the law says "xa" and the
>>> opinion says "xb" ... then it is up to the parliament to correct the
>>> situation if it is faulty, not the courts to decide "xb" instead of the
>>> letter of the law that is "xa".  I could never understand how the courts
>>> could get away with that.  Judges should not be judge and jury as they
>>> often are, they should only rely on the facts, 100% facts of the law,
>>> not their opinion to make a judgement against the facts and Kirby seems
>>> to be a great offender of my view of what is required here.
>>
>> Australia uses English Law, i.e. Common Law.  This paragraph is therefore, 
>> I'm
>> afraid, simply wrong.  You are recognising Statute Law, and ignoring Common
>> Law.  Common Law is at least as important, and goes back a lot further.  It
>> *is* the courts that decide and not Parliament.  Even with Statute Law, it is
>> the courts which decide what it means and how it is to be applied.
>>
>> One can argue that there is a lot wrong with English Law.  I frequently do.
>> But it is, as a matter of fact, much as you or I or anyone else may dislike
>> it, the courts that decide the facts and not Parliament.  A  barrister can
>> give an opinion.  A judge decides the facts (as they stand in law, which may
>> bear very little resemblance to the real world).
>>
>> "The common law system, as developed in the United Kingdom, forms the basis 
>> of
>> Australian jurisprudence."
>> http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/legal_system.html
>
> Yes, I do understand what you are saying.  If the law is open to
> interpretation, then chances are it hasn't been written properly.

It's funny, because I would say the exact opposite.

> It
> should be black and white ... that's why people get away with loopholes.

Laws and computer programs have some things in common. Some things not
so much in common.

One thing they have in common is bugs. It's impossible to write a
bug-free program. And it's impossible to write a law without the legal
equivalent of bugs.

One point of difference, in programs we group design bugs and
implementation bugs under the one umbrella of bugs. In laws, we have
the term loopholes, and we sometimes talk about bad law. But loopholes
are not necessarily bugs. And bad law can be bad by design or by
implementation, but calling law bad-by-design is so close to an
assertion of treason that we too often hesitate to do so.

It's a similar problem to discerning between a bug and a feature, but
we are supposed to be operating according to the law while we are
trying to analyze its correctness. And we know about programs that try
to analyze themselves for correctness, but we don't have any
alternative with the law. Unless someone or something is above the
law, and we know better than to try to make any human above the law.
At least we should.

> A judge should adjudicate according to the facts, not according to /his
> or her/ opinion of those facts and how they relate to the actual law.
> The judge's opinion should come in to sentencing, rather than guilt or
> innocence.

Perhaps the biggest difference between law and computer programs is
that programs have a fairly-well defined CPU and run-time environment
to run the program in.

Law, no. Each human is different, each human's context (life,
family/friends/neighbors/enemies, history, etc.) is different.
Sometimes so drastically different that no agreement can be found on
the meaning of fairly simple concepts like "sweet" or "bitter".

Or "guilt" and "innocence".

>  If that is not true, then it's just another reason to call
> the law an ass.

Ever wonder why I call MSWindows a bad OS? (I know you probably don't
care why I do, but you should be wondering why you have whatever
opinion you have of Microsoft's or Apple's or whomever's software.

> And sure, if there are natural common law rights that are being trampled
> by the statute law, then perhaps then the statute is invalid and it
> should be referred back to parliament to fix the law to suit the facts
> and/or intention appropriately.

Or perhaps the traditions which common law represents have some failing in them.

Either way, I would prefer the law-making bodies spend more time
examining the appropriateness of existing law than making new law.

Kind of like I'd like Microsoft to quit making new OSses and fix the
ones they've already foisted on the world, but at least we almost have
a choice to avoid Microsoft.

(Start fixing them by putting a real OS underneath. Kind of like the
real way to fix the old Mac OS was something we already had, but Apple
didn't want to release A/UX at non-industrial prices. Kind

Re: Australian law was: Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-04 Thread Andrew McGlashan

On 4/08/2014 9:04 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Monday 04 August 2014 09:44:31 Andrew McGlashan wrote:
>> I wonder about Kirby myself.  To me, it shouldn't be the court deciding
>> a matter of fact via *their* opinion.  If the law says "xa" and the
>> opinion says "xb" ... then it is up to the parliament to correct the
>> situation if it is faulty, not the courts to decide "xb" instead of the
>> letter of the law that is "xa".  I could never understand how the courts
>> could get away with that.  Judges should not be judge and jury as they
>> often are, they should only rely on the facts, 100% facts of the law,
>> not their opinion to make a judgement against the facts and Kirby seems
>> to be a great offender of my view of what is required here.
> 
> Australia uses English Law, i.e. Common Law.  This paragraph is therefore, 
> I'm 
> afraid, simply wrong.  You are recognising Statute Law, and ignoring Common 
> Law.  Common Law is at least as important, and goes back a lot further.  It 
> *is* the courts that decide and not Parliament.  Even with Statute Law, it is 
> the courts which decide what it means and how it is to be applied.
> 
> One can argue that there is a lot wrong with English Law.  I frequently do.  
> But it is, as a matter of fact, much as you or I or anyone else may dislike 
> it, the courts that decide the facts and not Parliament.  A  barrister can 
> give an opinion.  A judge decides the facts (as they stand in law, which may 
> bear very little resemblance to the real world).
> 
> "The common law system, as developed in the United Kingdom, forms the basis 
> of 
> Australian jurisprudence."
> http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/legal_system.html

Yes, I do understand what you are saying.  If the law is open to
interpretation, then chances are it hasn't been written properly.  It
should be black and white ... that's why people get away with loopholes.

A judge should adjudicate according to the facts, not according to /his
or her/ opinion of those facts and how they relate to the actual law.
The judge's opinion should come in to sentencing, rather than guilt or
innocence.   If that is not true, then it's just another reason to call
the law an ass.

And sure, if there are natural common law rights that are being trampled
by the statute law, then perhaps then the statute is invalid and it
should be referred back to parliament to fix the law to suit the facts
and/or intention appropriately.

Thanks Lisi.

Cheers
A.


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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-04 Thread Curt

On 2014-08-04, Bret Busby  wrote:
>
> I think that this sub-thread has digressed from both the original
> post, and, from the nature of the mailing list, too far.
>

No shit.


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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-04 Thread Lisi Reisz

On Monday 04 August 2014 10:08:59 Bret Busby wrote:
> I disagree with you on a number of points, but, I believe, it would be
> inappropriate to further discuss these points, in this thread, and, on
> this list.

Good for you and sorry.

Lisi


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Australian law was: Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-04 Thread Lisi Reisz

On Monday 04 August 2014 09:44:31 Andrew McGlashan wrote:
> I wonder about Kirby myself.  To me, it shouldn't be the court deciding
> a matter of fact via *their* opinion.  If the law says "xa" and the
> opinion says "xb" ... then it is up to the parliament to correct the
> situation if it is faulty, not the courts to decide "xb" instead of the
> letter of the law that is "xa".  I could never understand how the courts
> could get away with that.  Judges should not be judge and jury as they
> often are, they should only rely on the facts, 100% facts of the law,
> not their opinion to make a judgement against the facts and Kirby seems
> to be a great offender of my view of what is required here.

Australia uses English Law, i.e. Common Law.  This paragraph is therefore, I'm 
afraid, simply wrong.  You are recognising Statute Law, and ignoring Common 
Law.  Common Law is at least as important, and goes back a lot further.  It 
*is* the courts that decide and not Parliament.  Even with Statute Law, it is 
the courts which decide what it means and how it is to be applied.

One can argue that there is a lot wrong with English Law.  I frequently do.  
But it is, as a matter of fact, much as you or I or anyone else may dislike 
it, the courts that decide the facts and not Parliament.  A  barrister can 
give an opinion.  A judge decides the facts (as they stand in law, which may 
bear very little resemblance to the real world).

"The common law system, as developed in the United Kingdom, forms the basis of 
Australian jurisprudence."
http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/legal_system.html

Lisi

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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-04 Thread Joel Rees

On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Bret Busby  wrote:
> On 04/08/2014, Joel Rees  wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>
> Yeah, okay.
>
> But, some people with whom I have communicated, do not want others to
> see them, when they are talking to them.
>
> And, to me, Skype was a wonderful facility - video calls are a
> wonderful opportunity, of which people who do not have bandwidth
> issues, have been reluctant to take up.
> [...]

You know, I find myself wondering what point of view I'm defending.
All I know is that we are in the middle of a war right now, and things
are going to be harder than they were for a while.

We have to keep our sense of humor until things settle down again.

(If I had someone who would fund me, I could produce a video chat
system that would be similar to google's, but not depend on central
servers. There are lots of people like me, one of us is going to get
the money and time to do it. God did not intend computers to be used
making rich people richer, if you'll pardon me getting a little
religious.)

>> --
>> Joel Rees
>>
>> Be careful where you see conspiracy.
>> Look first in your own heart.
>>
>
> Regarding the perception of conspiracy, I like the proverb attributed,
> I believe, to Napoleon Bonaparte -
> "Do not always attribute to malice, what can be attributed to incompetence"
> - the problem, I believe, is in the ability to differentiate the intent.

The problem (and solution) in that is that malice is one popular form
of incompetence.

-- 
Joel Rees

Computers were given us by God
so that we could communicate with each other and keep our family histories.
All other uses are spurious,
and should be tolerated only when they don't interfere with the
primary purposes.

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use of video w/skype [was: Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7]

2014-08-04 Thread ken

On 08/04/2014 01:36 AM Bret Busby wrote:

How many different people do you want to be able to video chat with?
>What's your purpose? Figure out what you want to do, and you probably
>don't need skype at all.
>

Relatives and acquaintances (for me), would be good, and, some people
of whom I have no knowledge. I have immediate family members in a
couple of countries, that I might not even recognise, now, not having
seen them for a while, and, distant relatives (I have been into
genealogical research), in various countries around the world.

For a long time I waited for OpenMoko to integrate a camera into their 
phone, but finally gave up and got a Samsung running Android.  I use 
skype w/ video on it oftentimes to show people around my house (e.g., a 
couple Buddhist monks from Bhutan who'd never been outside their own 
country).  I also used it with a car mechanic friend when I wanted to 
show him part of my car's engine I was working on and needed his help 
with.  I also found skype video handy when talking with a friend in 
another language and I didn't know the translation for an object I was 
talking about... I just pointed the camera at it.

There are a lot of reasons to have and use video when phoning with 
someone, watching each other's faces while talking being, for me, the 
least of them.

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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-04 Thread Bret Busby

On 04/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan  wrote:
> Hi Bret,
>
> On 3/08/2014 8:47 PM, Bret Busby wrote:
 Actually we are subject to a bill of rights, see here:
 http://www.clrg.info/2011/02/validity-of-bill-of-rights-1688/

>>> That applies only to Victoria - I believe that, like motor vehicle
>>> roadworthiness testing, human rights legislation applies to only two
>>> states of Australia.
>>>
>>
>> I apologise - after posting my response, I realise that the material
>> on that web page, went beyond the first letter, which applies only to
>> Victoria. Thus, that web page relates to two other states, I believ,
>> in addition to Victoria.
>
> Even so, it might be something that could be challenged by other states
> if needed.
>
>> However, please read the text below, and, please read the citation of
>> what Michael Kirby said - he is much more an authority on the matter,
>> at the Australian federal level.
>
> Thanks.
>
> I wonder about Kirby myself.  To me, it shouldn't be the court deciding
> a matter of fact via *their* opinion.  If the law says "xa" and the
> opinion says "xb" ... then it is up to the parliament to correct the
> situation if it is faulty, not the courts to decide "xb" instead of the
> letter of the law that is "xa".  I could never understand how the courts
> could get away with that.  Judges should not be judge and jury as they
> often are, they should only rely on the facts, 100% facts of the law,
> not their opinion to make a judgement against the facts and Kirby seems
> to be a great offender of my view of what is required here.
>
 Don't let them screw with our constitution either, under false
 pretenses.  Local councils corporations operate as local government
 bodies today, but without the rights to do what they are doing ...
 legitimize those corporations and they'll go gang busters -- give them
 an inch, they'll take a 100 miles!
>>>
>>> It depends on how you regard the status of local governments in
>>> Australia.
>
> We are over-governed already, I DO NOT EVER want local council
> corporations getting more power than they already have; heck I'm not
> even sure there is a place for local government meddling at all, let
> alone all their fees and /localized/ sub-laws (that should not be
> binding on the people).  Already they have far too much power and they
> are just corporations that we are effectively *forced* to do business
> with whether we like it or not!
>
 And as for the recognition of
 Aboriginals in AU ... that is also completely unnecessary; any person,
 no matter what, if they set foot in Australian, then they are covered
 by
 our constitution.  Aboriginals are no different to other Australians,
 every person is covered.  They want to screw the Constitution under the
 guise of /fixing/ these things, instead they'll f*** things right up
 and
 we'll lose even more rights.
>>>
>>> Regarding the issue of the Aboriginals, and, any other race; I do not
>>> know whether you have read the Australian Constitution Act, but,
>>> apartheid (= "apartness" - racial segregation and racial
>>> discrimination) is constitutionally legal and enforceable, in
>>> Australia.
>
> Regardless of that fact, if it is true or not, it is not practiced in
> this day and age.  It is completely unnecessary to risk changing the
> Constitution to fix this issue that is /fixed/ otherwise current
> practices and other laws relating to how all persons are treated in AU.
>  We don't have slavery and separation in AU, and if there was a problem
> then it is often addressed via the "guilt" adverts. like those of Adam
> Goodes (an AFL footballer).  We have full integration as a
> multi-cultural society and non-racist people are by far the majority in
> many areas of AU.  There may well be more of an issue of reverse
> discrimination trying to right the wrongs of the past, that's another
> matter, not one that needs constitutional *destruction*.
>
> Leave the AU Constitution in tact, create new laws if necessary, but
> only if necessary to /fix/ issues and problems that really do need to be
> addressed, but definitely do not risk the integrity of the Constitution
> under any circumstances, it really is not worth the risk and changes may
> very well lead to it being effectively useless, ala not worth the paper
> it is printed on.
>
> Cheers
> A.
>
>

Hello.

I think that this sub-thread has digressed from both the original
post, and, from the nature of the mailing list, too far.

I disagree with you on a number of points, but, I believe, it would be
inappropriate to further discuss these points, in this thread, and, on
this list.

So, I leave this particular fork.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by

Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-04 Thread Andrew McGlashan

Hi Bret,

On 3/08/2014 8:47 PM, Bret Busby wrote:
>>> Actually we are subject to a bill of rights, see here:
>>> http://www.clrg.info/2011/02/validity-of-bill-of-rights-1688/
>>>
>> That applies only to Victoria - I believe that, like motor vehicle
>> roadworthiness testing, human rights legislation applies to only two
>> states of Australia.
>>
> 
> I apologise - after posting my response, I realise that the material
> on that web page, went beyond the first letter, which applies only to
> Victoria. Thus, that web page relates to two other states, I believ,
> in addition to Victoria.

Even so, it might be something that could be challenged by other states
if needed.

> However, please read the text below, and, please read the citation of
> what Michael Kirby said - he is much more an authority on the matter,
> at the Australian federal level.

Thanks.

I wonder about Kirby myself.  To me, it shouldn't be the court deciding
a matter of fact via *their* opinion.  If the law says "xa" and the
opinion says "xb" ... then it is up to the parliament to correct the
situation if it is faulty, not the courts to decide "xb" instead of the
letter of the law that is "xa".  I could never understand how the courts
could get away with that.  Judges should not be judge and jury as they
often are, they should only rely on the facts, 100% facts of the law,
not their opinion to make a judgement against the facts and Kirby seems
to be a great offender of my view of what is required here.

>>> Don't let them screw with our constitution either, under false
>>> pretenses.  Local councils corporations operate as local government
>>> bodies today, but without the rights to do what they are doing ...
>>> legitimize those corporations and they'll go gang busters -- give them
>>> an inch, they'll take a 100 miles!
>>
>> It depends on how you regard the status of local governments in Australia.

We are over-governed already, I DO NOT EVER want local council
corporations getting more power than they already have; heck I'm not
even sure there is a place for local government meddling at all, let
alone all their fees and /localized/ sub-laws (that should not be
binding on the people).  Already they have far too much power and they
are just corporations that we are effectively *forced* to do business
with whether we like it or not!

>>> And as for the recognition of
>>> Aboriginals in AU ... that is also completely unnecessary; any person,
>>> no matter what, if they set foot in Australian, then they are covered by
>>> our constitution.  Aboriginals are no different to other Australians,
>>> every person is covered.  They want to screw the Constitution under the
>>> guise of /fixing/ these things, instead they'll f*** things right up and
>>> we'll lose even more rights.
>>
>> Regarding the issue of the Aboriginals, and, any other race; I do not
>> know whether you have read the Australian Constitution Act, but,
>> apartheid (= "apartness" - racial segregation and racial
>> discrimination) is constitutionally legal and enforceable, in
>> Australia.

Regardless of that fact, if it is true or not, it is not practiced in
this day and age.  It is completely unnecessary to risk changing the
Constitution to fix this issue that is /fixed/ otherwise current
practices and other laws relating to how all persons are treated in AU.
 We don't have slavery and separation in AU, and if there was a problem
then it is often addressed via the "guilt" adverts. like those of Adam
Goodes (an AFL footballer).  We have full integration as a
multi-cultural society and non-racist people are by far the majority in
many areas of AU.  There may well be more of an issue of reverse
discrimination trying to right the wrongs of the past, that's another
matter, not one that needs constitutional *destruction*.

Leave the AU Constitution in tact, create new laws if necessary, but
only if necessary to /fix/ issues and problems that really do need to be
addressed, but definitely do not risk the integrity of the Constitution
under any circumstances, it really is not worth the risk and changes may
very well lead to it being effectively useless, ala not worth the paper
it is printed on.

Cheers
A.

signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

On 04/08/2014, Joel Rees  wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 8:55 AM, Bret Busby  wrote:
>> On 03/08/2014, Joel Rees  wrote:
>>> On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Bret Busby  wrote:
 On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan

 wrote:
> On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>> And the reason I decided to respond was to ask your reason for not
>>> wanting to use wheezy. Or, rather, if your reason is more important
>>> than your need to communicate cheap.
>>>
>>
>> It is not a matter of communicating cheap.
>>
>> The ADSL/landline phone package that we have, includes free calls
>> within this country, and, free landline calls to the countries that we
>> are most likely to call.
>>
>> It is the videocalls facility - a technology that is way underused -
>> "I don't want people to see what I really look like".
>
> There are other reasons for not using video. (In my case, about a
> thousand yen a month to raise my fundamental bandwidth, which won't do
> much good because so many of the home routers here are, shall we just
> say, cheap, and lately there has been a lot of low-level-protocol
> amplified noise. (Assumed intentional, as in skriptkiddies trying to
> prove their cred, but I'm not going to lay all the blame on the
> skriptkiddies when the routers shouldn't have been vulnerable in the
> first place.)
>

Yeah, okay.

But, some people with whom I have communicated, do not want others to
see them, when they are talking to them.

And, to me, Skype was a wonderful facility - video calls are a
wonderful opportunity, of which people who do not have bandwidth
issues, have been reluctant to take up.

And, yes, they were free, but, what landline telecommunications
service, offers video calls as part of its service (and, without
phenomenally high fees)? And, that are platform (and, network)
independent, thus allowing a person subscribed to one
telecommunications provider, the ability to freely (without
obstruction, rather than free of charge) communicate with anyone the
person wants, regardless of what equipment (including software), and,
telecommunications service provider, the other person is using?

Okay, Skype is proprietary software, and, it is now owned by one of
the most disreputable companies in the world, which is now shown to
have taken it over, for malicious reasoning, including disrupting
communications and attempted forcing assimmilation, but, while Skype
2.2 was usable, it was a wonderful thing.

And, with the video-conferencing facility (whilst the new Skype, is
apparently, limited to 10 nodes, it should be able, with development,
to be expanded), is a wonderful opportunity to allow virtual, visual,
attendance at distant meetings, and, here in Australia, with its
distances, we have local, state, and federal governments ( a massively
over-governed, in terms of levels and chambers of governments, and,
far too many bludging members of each level of government), that could
hold their sittings, using video-conferencing, if it was adequately
developed, instead of costing the country, thousands of millions of
dollars in unnecessary travel with little worthwhile outcome.

>> I assume that wheezy is Debian 7.
>
> Yeah.
>
>> I have Debian 6 set up, and, whilst I have a more powerful computer
>> with Debian 7 installed on it, Debian 7 appears to be "not up to
>> scratch" when compared to Debian 6.
>
> As in, ...

I believe that I previously said, it does not have iceape, and, other
functionality, that Debian 6 has (had). See reference below, to the
lack of iceape, in Debian 7.

>
>> I have now managed to get the Debian 7 computer working with LXDE -
>> GNOME 2 is not available for Debian 7, but, LXDE wil probably do - it
>> is the best desktop environment (insofar as suitability for me, is
>> concerned) that I have so far found.
>
> I feel your pain. Gnome 2 was useable.
>
> XFCE is not unuseable, however. Well, not entirely.
>

I tried it, and, did not like it, so tried LXDE, and, much prefer LXDE.

>> But, Debian 7 does not have iceape, and, Seamonkey is too dificult to
>> get working.And, so, I will likely continue to use Debian 6, as my
>> primary operating system, until an acceptable version of Debian, is
>> available, with iceape (iceape seems to be excluded from one version,
>> then reappears in a later version, then is excluded, then
>> reappears...).
>

There its is - I was sure that I had mentioned it, somewhere

> I like sylpheed, sort-of, but google's filters that don't really do
> what I want, but make it a little easier to just ignore the arcanities
> of e-mail filtering, well, they are addicting, I guess.
>

I use alpine (formerly known as pine) - very powerful filtering, as
long as a user keeps within its limitations ( a filter cann not exceed
2kb, form memory, and, some of my ((few hundred or so) filters, have
pages of field values). From what I understand, alpine is the safest,
and, most powerful, email application. I just haven't managed to get
return receipt requests (one of the

Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-03 Thread mett

On Sun, 3 Aug 2014 03:05:28 -0400
Tom H  wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Bret Busby 
> wrote:
> >
> > I have found, in the last day, that Microsoft has apparently
> > cancelled Skype access for versions of Debian before 7.x.
> >
> > With the error message that I encountered, with my Skype 2.2 (beta)
> > running on Debian 6, I went to the Skype web site, and found that
> > they have cancelled access for all but the latest version of Skype,
> > and, for Debian, it apparently needs Debian 7.x, to run.
> >
> > No notice (on the Skype mailing list) was given.
> >
> > I thought that anyone like me, who is running and using Debian 6
> > (and anyone using earlier versions of Debian), most of the time,
> > might like to know.
> 
> Debian 6 is oldstable so why shouldn't MS decide to withdraw Skype
> support?
> 
> Didn't Google withdraw Chrome support recently? (There was a thread
> about this.)
> 
> 

> > I thought that anyone like me, who is running and using Debian 6
> > (and anyone using earlier versions of Debian), most of the time,
> > might like to know.

Thanks for the info, I was using Skype with 2 accounts(2.2.025beta)
opened simultaneously on Squeeze.
It was very convenient to speak with persons living in other worlds.
Bye bye Skype! 


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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-03 Thread Joel Rees

On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 8:55 AM, Bret Busby  wrote:
> On 03/08/2014, Joel Rees  wrote:
>> On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Bret Busby  wrote:
>>> On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan 
>>> wrote:
 On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote:
>
> 
>
>> And the reason I decided to respond was to ask your reason for not
>> wanting to use wheezy. Or, rather, if your reason is more important
>> than your need to communicate cheap.
>>
>
> It is not a matter of communicating cheap.
>
> The ADSL/landline phone package that we have, includes free calls
> within this country, and, free landline calls to the countries that we
> are most likely to call.
>
> It is the videocalls facility - a technology that is way underused -
> "I don't want people to see what I really look like".

There are other reasons for not using video. (In my case, about a
thousand yen a month to raise my fundamental bandwidth, which won't do
much good because so many of the home routers here are, shall we just
say, cheap, and lately there has been a lot of low-level-protocol
amplified noise. (Assumed intentional, as in skriptkiddies trying to
prove their cred, but I'm not going to lay all the blame on the
skriptkiddies when the routers shouldn't have been vulnerable in the
first place.)

> I assume that wheezy is Debian 7.

Yeah.

> I have Debian 6 set up, and, whilst I have a more powerful computer
> with Debian 7 installed on it, Debian 7 appears to be "not up to
> scratch" when compared to Debian 6.

As in, ...

> I have now managed to get the Debian 7 computer working with LXDE -
> GNOME 2 is not available for Debian 7, but, LXDE wil probably do - it
> is the best desktop environment (insofar as suitability for me, is
> concerned) that I have so far found.

I feel your pain. Gnome 2 was useable.

XFCE is not unuseable, however. Well, not entirely.

> But, Debian 7 does not have iceape, and, Seamonkey is too dificult to
> get working.And, so, I will likely continue to use Debian 6, as my
> primary operating system, until an acceptable version of Debian, is
> available, with iceape (iceape seems to be excluded from one version,
> then reappears in a later version, then is excluded, then
> reappears...).

I like sylpheed, sort-of, but google's filters that don't really do
what I want, but make it a little easier to just ignore the arcanities
of e-mail filtering, well, they are addicting, I guess.

I admit that I have a lot of mail archives in various formats sitting
around, waiting for me to write a good program to decode them (much of
the mail contains a lot of shift-JIS characters) and automatically
layout a good set of directories so I can search through them
reasonably.

> So, I will continue to use Debian 6 for most of my stuff, and, may use
> Debian 7 from time to time.
>
>>> With the Skype 2.2 (beta), running on Debian 6, I was able to connect
>>> successfully, and, successfully make videocalls, with people running
>>> Linux, and, with people running MS Windows.
>>>
>>> It worked, so Microsoft broke it.
>>> [...]
>>
>> And you knew that was going to happen. Or you should have known.
>> Anyway, you definitely know now.
>
> No, I had no advanced warning, as mentioned elsewhere in the thread.
>
> But, I know now, and, have lost access to videocalls.
>
> Annoying.

I guess you didn't really want to believe that Microsoft's management
will never, ever let engineering put out good product, and if they do,
will absolutely never let them maintain it? (The OS, of course, is not
good product. Maintaining it is one of their revenue streams, even
though home users sort-of get the updates for free.)

>> So, you can build your own chat application if you want, including
>> video and audio. The entertainment and communication industries are
>> trying their hardest to prevent you from getting hardware that isn't
>> roped and tied to IP-laden standards, but you can still do it. All you
>> have to do is convince the people you need to communicate with to use
>> your application.
>>
>
> I do not have the skills.
>
> And, I am now too old, and past it, to learn skills like that.

Can you wire up a web cam? Show the person you want to talk with how
to do the same?

Take it a few steps at a time, get the connection working, then play
with basic authentication, then add https into the mix, with
self-signed certs. And if you're planning on monitoring an elderly
relative, maybe you'll need to write a little filter that does a
little byte-order scramble of the data stream, eventually.

How many different people do you want to be able to video chat with?
What's your purpose? Figure out what you want to do, and you probably
don't need skype at all.

>> Or update your OS or get a separate machine to dedicate to an
>> "ordinary user" level OS or something.
>>
>
> I have another computer, as mentioned above, that runs Debian 7, and,
> it gets powered up, sometimes. Using that, for something like Skype,
> is a bit like having a landline, and, plugging the phone in, for an
> hour or

Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-03 Thread Steve Litt

On Sun, 03 Aug 2014 05:30:47 +1000
Andrew McGlashan  wrote:

> On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote:
> > On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
> > There is no substitute for Skype (either the software or the
> > service) whether it be open or closed source,
> 
> What about Google Hangouts?  That might be a reasonable substitute
> 
> 
> I haven't used Skype for a number of years, I was against the way it
> worked  super nodes, anyone?  Since M$ took ownership, well, that
> just made it a more bad idea.
> 
> 
> There must be an alternative to Skype.
> 
> http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/fed-up-with-skype-here-are-6-of-the-best-free-alternatives/
> 
> Cheers
> A.

The trouble I see with alternatives is the legalese, every one of which
forces you to indemnify the vendor. What indemnification really means
is: "If a third party sues the vendor for anything alleged to involve
your use of the service, you pay all legal fees and damages for the
vendor". A lot of them go on to say that the vendor will determine the
legal strategy, which could be as simple as "give him $200K to get him
off our backs", in which case, whoops, there goes the house.

The less of these I participate in, the better I like it. I spoze we've
all signed one for Google, so that might be the way to go: No new
indemnifications that way.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-03 Thread Mark Carroll

Bret Busby  writes:

> On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan  
> wrote:
>> On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote:
>>> On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
>>> There is no substitute for Skype (either the software or the service)
>>> whether it be open or closed source,
>>
>> What about Google Hangouts?  That might be a reasonable substitute
>
> Google? That is even more sinister than the NSA, isn't it? The NSA
> doesn't drive around suburbia, filming everyone in their yards.
(snip)

At least that you've noticed. (-: A persistently irritating problem with
both Skype and Google Hangouts, at least for me, is that they have
consistently worked far better and more reliably than any of the
open-source alternatives! However, Skype don't even seem to bother
offering amd64 packages so, as with acroread, I run it from a 32-bit
chroot -- I thus guess that their interest in supporting Linux is
minimal. (I am also irritated with how Google's package sneakily adds
its own /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ file.)

I put some effort into getting Linphone and Jitsi working, and over
several years now Ekiga -- including compiling patched versions,
capturing and sharing so many debug logs, trying different combinations
of codecs, etc. -- and, while the Ekiga developers are consistently
communicative and helpful, I never managed to get to a point where I
could make a call with any confidence that we would have audio and video
going in both directions for as long as we wanted to talk. It's been
both surprising and frustrating as I don't see technically why we
shouldn't be able to get it to work better: the networks and NAT
traversal seem otherwise reliable when I test the same ports with nc and
am doing other stuff remotely with those systems. In some cases I can
actually ssh into the machines of the people I would like to call, and
sudo -- I've caught myself wondering if I could just construct some
pipeline of commands to capture, encode, forward and play audio and
video streams, with the help of mplayer or whatever, allowing a poor
man's version of open-source videotelephony without actually having to
try to get any of the actual videotelephone software working well.

-- Mark

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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-03 Thread Nuno Magalhães

On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Andrew McGlashan
 wrote:

> Microsoft and Google are great big US companies ... that's a problem
> just to start with; the US Government or any of their agents can easily
> destroy all your privacy any time they like.

Are you assuming US companies only gangrape your right to privacy
because the US government tells them to?

> If you have a smart phone, chances are it is Android (Google owned IP
> and control) or iOS (Apple owned IP and control).  Even if you have a
> Linux based phone (other than Android), then you still have the issues
> of components above the OS to consider.  Sure you could use Cyanogen
> Mod, but that is still based on Android ... just less Google.
>
> Further on trust, given what we know now about BadUSB and all the stuff
> in the NSA /store/ ... you can't even trust any hardware!
...
> Anything with Intel inside is also suspect for similar reasons

True. For android you have replicant, for hardware you have OpenMoko
(which can run Debian, of course).
Why would AMD be off the hook?

> As an Australian, in Australia (all my life), I am supposed to be /free/
> from NSA spying, but that doesn't rule out our own security agencies.

No one's free from the NSA spying on them, especially online. Every
now and then word comes out that the  has been spying worldwide. US gov says "Oops,
sorry, plausible deniability,won't happen again." and it's businesss
as usual. Or do you think they won't because you're not american? What
was the first big one to be known, Echelon?

> Nor does it help if I wish to use Tor and/or other encrypting / privacy
> related technology.

What do you mean? Encrypting your own data before it hits the wire
seems to be the most plausible means at the moment.
Of course... who knows what my laptop's hardware secretly does :)

As for Skype: it's a proprietary product based on a proprietary
protocol and now recently bought by your friendly neighborhood folks
at Redmond. No news there, the change isn't that significant.

Yes, there are a bunch of VoIP alternatives but, as someone already
stated on this thread, it's great if you wanna talk to yourself (or
other like-minded folk). On that note, no one mentioned XMPP with
Jingle (used by Google and Facebook, actually).

I use skype because i must and it's off when not it use. I use pidgin
for everything else (msn, yahoo, aol and a whole bunch of other
accounts i've accumulated over the years, like ICQ! :)), because i
won't force my friends to move to jabber just because it's The Right
Thing to do. Otherwise i'd shove Debian down their throats first.

Realistic alternatives to Skype? None. Keep your system pinned, use a
VM or chroot or something.

Cheers,
Nuno

-- 
"On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog."

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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

On 03/08/2014, Bret Busby  wrote:
> On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan 
> wrote:
>> On 3/08/2014 6:46 PM, Bret Busby wrote:
>>> On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan 
>>> wrote:
 On 3/08/2014 9:21 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
>> On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan
>> 
>


>>
>>> And, in terms of party politics, remember that the whole of the
>>> federal parliament, agreed that Australians are not entitled to human
>>> rights, and thence, to the protections (such as they exist elsewhere)
>>> of a Bill of Rights.
>>
>> Actually we are subject to a bill of rights, see here:
>>
>> http://www.clrg.info/2011/02/validity-of-bill-of-rights-1688/
>>
>
> That applies only to Victoria - I believe that, like motor vehicle
> roadworthiness testing, human rights legislation applies to only two
> states of Australia.
>

I apologise - after posting my response, I realise that the material
on that web page, went beyond the first letter, which applies only to
Victoria. Thus, that web page relates to two other states, I believ,
in addition to Victoria.

However, please read the text below, and, please read the citation of
what Michael Kirby said - he is much more an authority on the matter,
at the Australian federal level.

> For the whole of Australia, see
> http://www.armadale-wa.net/politics/HumanRights.html
> especially, from the text of the submission made in May 2009, to the
> Australian Human Rights Consultation Committee, at
> http://www.armadale-wa.net/politics/HumanRightsConsulationCommitteeSubmission_200905.pdf
> - read the first two pages.
>
> I can not copy and paste the relevant text here, but, the first two
> pages of that submission, with the citation of what was said by
> Michale Kirby, cover it adequately, I believe
>
>> Don't let them screw with our constitution either, under false
>> pretenses.  Local councils corporations operate as local government
>> bodies today, but without the rights to do what they are doing ...
>> legitimize those corporations and they'll go gang busters -- give them
>> an inch, they'll take a 100 miles!
>
>
> It depends on how you regard the status of local governments in Australia.
>
> Without federal constitutiional recognition and protection of local
> governments, state governments like the WA Loony Nazi Party
> government, are free to, as they are doing,  further reduce what
> little democracy we have, and, force amalgamations of local
> governments, to reduce further, any representation of the people, in
> government, so that things happen like my own local government
> performing the equivalent of Hitler's invasion of Poland, on a
> neighbouring local government, and, as with parliamentary prohibitions
> of democracy in Australia, we, the people, have no say in government.
>
> That is what happens when we have no human rights, and the
> International Covenant on Civil and Politcal Rights, are of no effect,
> and, the people, for the most part, simply do not care - "Evil
> flourishes where apathy prevails".
>
>
>> And as for the recognition of
>> Aboriginals in AU ... that is also completely unnecessary; any person,
>> no matter what, if they set foot in Australian, then they are covered by
>> our constitution.  Aboriginals are no different to other Australians,
>> every person is covered.  They want to screw the Constitution under the
>> guise of /fixing/ these things, instead they'll f*** things right up and
>> we'll lose even more rights.
>>
>
>
> Regarding the issue of the Aboriginals, and, any other race; I do not
> know whether you have read the Australian Constitution Act, but,
> apartheid (= "apartness" - racial segregation and racial
> discrimination) is constitutionally legal and enforceable, in
> Australia.
>
>>> The bottom line remains unchanged - with Skype 2.2, and it not having
>>> the advances of the later versions of Skype, I could engage in video
>>> calls, using Debian 6, the operating system of my choice, and, with
>>> people using different versions of different operating systems, so
>>> that I could see the person with whom I was communicating, and, in
>>> motion, as we communicated (which allows for seeing changes in
>>> expressions, due to a person's reaction to things said), and, that was
>>> both ways, and, now, Microsoft has taken away that facility and that
>>> functionality.
>>
>> It may not be that simple for all sorts of reasons.  There might be
>> bandaid fixes in place for old versions that they want or need to remove
>> for other reasons.  Of course, it may still be simple just the same.
>>
>> Cheers
>> A.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> ..
>
> "So once you do know what the question actually is,
>  you'll know what the answer means."
> - Deep Thought,
>  Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
>  "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
>  A Trilogy In Four Parts",
>  written by Douglas Adams,
>  published by Pan Books, 1992
>
> 
>


-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan  wrote:
> On 3/08/2014 6:46 PM, Bret Busby wrote:
>> On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan 
>> wrote:
>>> On 3/08/2014 9:21 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
> On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan
> 
>> I do not have a smart phone - I have an "Oldies Phone" - an unblocked
>> Telstra EasyCall, with decent sized buttons, made in Taiwan, or some
>> other Asian country, so that I mostly press the correct button,
>> instead of trying to answer an incoming call and instead turning on an
>> unwanted camera, and, for telephone use, not camera/radio/GPS/phaser
>> and all of the other non telephone stuff.
>
> I bet there is still the ability to do things with your more simple
> phone than you realize.
>

Actually, it DOES have an LED torch and an FM radio, but, I prefer to
avoid them, and only turn them on, in error.

>> The NSA watches everyone Australian, for the Australian federal
>> parliament. The SS and the government(s) must know everything about
>> anyone, and, no doubt, the KGB and the Chinese equivalent, see all of
>> the classified information, so they all know who you communicate with,
>> what is communicated with you, and, with whom, you have relationships
>> of any sort, and, exactly what each relationships involve, and, how
>> frequently. The voyeurs do have to be able to get their jollies.
>
> I don't doubt that for one minute, but the world is under surveillance
> .. including US citizens; it will continue indefinitely if they can
> manage to keep the funds (under both true and false pretenses).
>
>> We have adequate bandwidth, with "ADSL2+" - as I previously said,
>> Skype 2.2 worked well enough for me. Whilst it was not high resolution
>> (I think it went up to 640x480), or, high frame rate, and,
>> occasionally, I would get frame dropout (?), it was generally good
>> enough, for me. And, I was happy, and, it was an exciting experience,
>> to be able to see people with who I was communicating, and, to be able
>> to see thir reactions to what happened in the course of a dialogue.
>
> ADSL2 is great, so long as you are close enough to the exchange AND your
> local exchange or other parts of the network path are not congested.
>

We are about 2km from the exchange, I believe. I am aware of the issue
of hops and that, like " a chain is only as storng as its weakest
link, and, its joins", as shown by traceroute, a download can only be
as fast as the slowest link (and, the load and capacity of the
server(s).

>> And, just out of interest, whilst the policy of the Loony Nazi Party
>> government, is "fibre to the exchange, copper from the exchange to the
>> house", I am advised that the installation of fibre to the house, is,
>> at this stage, still unchanged, and the copper to the house, has not
>> yet been imposed.
>>
>> So, I believe it is not a bandwidth problem.
>
> It is for some, due to cable length of their DSL service and/or
> congestion (local or otherwise).
>
>> And, in terms of party politics, remember that the whole of the
>> federal parliament, agreed that Australians are not entitled to human
>> rights, and thence, to the protections (such as they exist elsewhere)
>> of a Bill of Rights.
>
> Actually we are subject to a bill of rights, see here:
>
> http://www.clrg.info/2011/02/validity-of-bill-of-rights-1688/
>

That applies only to Victoria - I believe that, like motor vehicle
roadworthiness testing, human rights legislation applies to only two
states of Australia.

For the whole of Australia, see
http://www.armadale-wa.net/politics/HumanRights.html
especially, from the text of the submission made in May 2009, to the
Australian Human Rights Consultation Committee
http://www.armadale-wa.net/politics/HumanRightsConsulationCommitteeSubmission_200905.pdf
- read the first two pages.

I can not copy and paste the relevant text here, but, the first two
pages of that submission, with the citation of what was said by
Michale Kirby, cover it adequately, I believe

> Don't let them screw with our constitution either, under false
> pretenses.  Local councils corporations operate as local government
> bodies today, but without the rights to do what they are doing ...
> legitimize those corporations and they'll go gang busters -- give them
> an inch, they'll take a 100 miles!


It depends on how you regard the status of local governments in Australia.

Without federal constitutiional recognition and protection of local
governments, state governments like the WA Loony Nazi Party
government, are free to, as they are doing,  further reduce what
little democracy we have, and, force amalgamations of local
governments, to reduce further, any representation of the people, in
government, so that things happen like my own local government
performing the equivalent of Hitler's invasion of Poland, on a
neighbouring local government, and, as with parliamentary prohibitions
of democracy in Australia, we, the people, have no say in government.

That is what happens when we have no human rights, and t

Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-03 Thread Andrew McGlashan

On 3/08/2014 6:46 PM, Bret Busby wrote:
> On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan  
> wrote:
>> On 3/08/2014 9:21 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
 On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan 
> I do not have a smart phone - I have an "Oldies Phone" - an unblocked
> Telstra EasyCall, with decent sized buttons, made in Taiwan, or some
> other Asian country, so that I mostly press the correct button,
> instead of trying to answer an incoming call and instead turning on an
> unwanted camera, and, for telephone use, not camera/radio/GPS/phaser
> and all of the other non telephone stuff.

I bet there is still the ability to do things with your more simple
phone than you realize.

> The NSA watches everyone Australian, for the Australian federal
> parliament. The SS and the government(s) must know everything about
> anyone, and, no doubt, the KGB and the Chinese equivalent, see all of
> the classified information, so they all know who you communicate with,
> what is communicated with you, and, with whom, you have relationships
> of any sort, and, exactly what each relationships involve, and, how
> frequently. The voyeurs do have to be able to get their jollies.

I don't doubt that for one minute, but the world is under surveillance
.. including US citizens; it will continue indefinitely if they can
manage to keep the funds (under both true and false pretenses).

> We have adequate bandwidth, with "ADSL2+" - as I previously said,
> Skype 2.2 worked well enough for me. Whilst it was not high resolution
> (I think it went up to 640x480), or, high frame rate, and,
> occasionally, I would get frame dropout (?), it was generally good
> enough, for me. And, I was happy, and, it was an exciting experience,
> to be able to see people with who I was communicating, and, to be able
> to see thir reactions to what happened in the course of a dialogue.

ADSL2 is great, so long as you are close enough to the exchange AND your
local exchange or other parts of the network path are not congested.

> And, just out of interest, whilst the policy of the Loony Nazi Party
> government, is "fibre to the exchange, copper from the exchange to the
> house", I am advised that the installation of fibre to the house, is,
> at this stage, still unchanged, and the copper to the house, has not
> yet been imposed.
> 
> So, I believe it is not a bandwidth problem.

It is for some, due to cable length of their DSL service and/or
congestion (local or otherwise).

> And, in terms of party politics, remember that the whole of the
> federal parliament, agreed that Australians are not entitled to human
> rights, and thence, to the protections (such as they exist elsewhere)
> of a Bill of Rights.

Actually we are subject to a bill of rights, see here:

http://www.clrg.info/2011/02/validity-of-bill-of-rights-1688/

Don't let them screw with our constitution either, under false
pretenses.  Local councils corporations operate as local government
bodies today, but without the rights to do what they are doing ...
legitimize those corporations and they'll go gang busters -- give them
an inch, they'll take a 100 miles!  And as for the recognition of
Aboriginals in AU ... that is also completely unnecessary; any person,
no matter what, if they set foot in Australian, then they are covered by
our constitution.  Aboriginals are no different to other Australians,
every person is covered.  They want to screw the Constitution under the
guise of /fixing/ these things, instead they'll f*** things right up and
we'll lose even more rights.

> The bottom line remains unchanged - with Skype 2.2, and it not having
> the advances of the later versions of Skype, I could engage in video
> calls, using Debian 6, the operating system of my choice, and, with
> people using different versions of different operating systems, so
> that I could see the person with whom I was communicating, and, in
> motion, as we communicated (which allows for seeing changes in
> expressions, due to a person's reaction to things said), and, that was
> both ways, and, now, Microsoft has taken away that facility and that
> functionality.

It may not be that simple for all sorts of reasons.  There might be
bandaid fixes in place for old versions that they want or need to remove
for other reasons.  Of course, it may still be simple just the same.

Cheers
A.

signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

On 03/08/2014, Bret Busby  wrote:
> On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan 
> wrote:




>> In terms of hardware, I don't want any fingerprint readers, nor do I
>> want any other unwanted spying /tools/ to be available to the spooks.
>> Anything with Intel inside is also suspect for similar reasons to the
>> issues with Microsoft / Google / Apple being based in the US.  The
>> mobile I want today is the OnePlus One ... Chinese made, can we trust
>> them?  It's a very, very sorry state of affairs when you realize that
>> you cannot trust any company to keep you safe and with privacy; with
>> limited or no trust in hardware, ditto for software.
>>
>> As an Australian, in Australia (all my life), I am supposed to be /free/
>> from NSA spying, but that doesn't rule out our own security agencies.
>> Nor does it help if I wish to use Tor and/or other encrypting / privacy
>> related technology.
>>
>
> Remember, apart from Fraser using the CIA to oust Whitlam, we have
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-14/dsd-asked-nsa-for-help-in-spying-on-australian/5453480
>
> "
> GLENN GREENWALD: Nobody disputes that there is some legitimate state
> surveillance, including surveilling people where there's evidence to
> believe that they're engaged in violence or terrorism or other forms
> of threatening behaviour. I've been writing about this issue for many
> years and I've never once encountered somebody who believes there
> should be no state surveillance.
>
> The problem is, and if you look at the letter, which we publish in
> relevant parts, they're not asking for very specific individuals to be
> surveilled; they're asking for a wide surveillance net to be cast over
> the Australian communications system.
>
> And so, the problem with it is that, historically, whenever you allow
> government officials to engage in mass surveillance, which is what
> these systems are, the abuse is virtually inevitable. I think it would
> be a much different story if the letter were saying, 'Here are 35
> people we're concerned about and we'd like you to help us watch them.'
> But that's now what the letter was; it was asking for, more or less,
> indiscriminate surveillance on Australians generally.
> "
>
>

The immediate next part of that interview;

"
MARK COLVIN: So, what do you think is the single most important thing
that Edward Snowden has revealed?

GLENN GREENWALD: I think, you know, I'm asked that question fairly
often and I could name some really significant, specific stories, but
ultimately what I really believe is the most enduring and
consequential revelation is that the goal of the NSA and its four
English-speaking surveillance partners, which includes Australia, the
UK and New Zealand and Canada, is captured by this phrase that appears
over and over in the documents which is, 'collect it all'.

They are not trying simply to collect the communication of terror
suspects or people who are viewed as radical extremists; they
literally want to store and gather and, when they want, monitor and
analyse all forms of human communication that take place
electronically between all human beings on the planet.
"

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan  wrote:
> On 3/08/2014 9:21 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
>>> On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan 
>>> wrote:

> If you have a smart phone, chances are it is Android (Google owned IP
> and control) or iOS (Apple owned IP and control).  Even if you have a
> Linux based phone (other than Android), then you still have the issues
> of components above the OS to consider.  Sure you could use Cyanogen
> Mod, but that is still based on Android ... just less Google.
>

I do not have a smart phone - I have an "Oldies Phone" - an unblocked
Telstra EasyCall, with decent sized buttons, made in Taiwan, or some
other Asian country, so that I mostly press the correct button,
instead of trying to answer an incoming call and instead turning on an
unwanted camera, and, for telephone use, not camera/radio/GPS/phaser
and all of the other non telephone stuff.

> Further on trust, given what we know now about BadUSB and all the stuff
> in the NSA /store/ ... you can't even trust any hardware!
>
> In terms of hardware, I don't want any fingerprint readers, nor do I
> want any other unwanted spying /tools/ to be available to the spooks.
> Anything with Intel inside is also suspect for similar reasons to the
> issues with Microsoft / Google / Apple being based in the US.  The
> mobile I want today is the OnePlus One ... Chinese made, can we trust
> them?  It's a very, very sorry state of affairs when you realize that
> you cannot trust any company to keep you safe and with privacy; with
> limited or no trust in hardware, ditto for software.
>
> As an Australian, in Australia (all my life), I am supposed to be /free/
> from NSA spying, but that doesn't rule out our own security agencies.
> Nor does it help if I wish to use Tor and/or other encrypting / privacy
> related technology.
>

Remember, apart from Fraser using the CIA to oust Whitlam, we have
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-14/dsd-asked-nsa-for-help-in-spying-on-australian/5453480

"
GLENN GREENWALD: Nobody disputes that there is some legitimate state
surveillance, including surveilling people where there's evidence to
believe that they're engaged in violence or terrorism or other forms
of threatening behaviour. I've been writing about this issue for many
years and I've never once encountered somebody who believes there
should be no state surveillance.

The problem is, and if you look at the letter, which we publish in
relevant parts, they're not asking for very specific individuals to be
surveilled; they're asking for a wide surveillance net to be cast over
the Australian communications system.

And so, the problem with it is that, historically, whenever you allow
government officials to engage in mass surveillance, which is what
these systems are, the abuse is virtually inevitable. I think it would
be a much different story if the letter were saying, 'Here are 35
people we're concerned about and we'd like you to help us watch them.'
But that's now what the letter was; it was asking for, more or less,
indiscriminate surveillance on Australians generally.
"

The NSA watches everyone Australian, for the Australian federal
parliament. The SS and the government(s) must know everything about
anyone, and, no doubt, the KGB and the Chinese equivalent, see all of
the classified information, so they all know who you communicate with,
what is communicated with you, and, with whom, you have relationships
of any sort, and, exactly what each relationships involve, and, how
frequently. The voyeurs do have to be able to get their jollies.

> The biggest impediment to doing video calls is the bandwidth or lack
> thereof worldwide ... in AU we have a stick government that got voted in
> thanks to the media doing a real hatchet job on the previous government.
>  No government is perfect, but at least our former government was
> working towards giving us fibre to the premise, not that it would have
> solved all bandwidth issues, it would have helped greatly; the current
> government wants to give us fraudband for not much less in real cost to
> build and far greater cost to operate -- it's a political mess and we
> all [or least a great majority] suffer the consequences.
>

We have adequate bandwidth, with "ADSL2+" - as I previously said,
Skype 2.2 worked well enough for me. Whilst it was not high resolution
(I think it went up to 640x480), or, high frame rate, and,
occasionally, I would get frame dropout (?), it was generally good
enough, for me. And, I was happy, and, it was an exciting experience,
to be able to see people with who I was communicating, and, to be able
to see thir reactions to what happened in the course of a dialogue.

And, now, that has been taken away, for the sake of taking it away.

And, just out of interest, whilst the policy of the Loony Nazi Party
government, is "fibre to the exchange, copper from the exchange to the
house", I am advised that the installation of fibre to the house, is,
at this stage, still unchanged, and the copper to the ho

Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-03 Thread Andrew McGlashan

On 3/08/2014 9:21 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
>> On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan  
>> wrote:
>>> What about Google Hangouts?  That might be a reasonable substitute
>>>
>> Google? That is even more sinister than the NSA, isn't it? The NSA
>> doesn't drive around suburbia, filming everyone in their yards.
> 
> Google has too much money and is out of control.
> 
> The NSA has too much money and is out of our control.
> 
> There is a difference. Sometimes only minor, but mostly not so minor.

Sure, there are lots of trust problems.

Microsoft and Google are great big US companies ... that's a problem
just to start with; the US Government or any of their agents can easily
destroy all your privacy any time they like.  Apple is somewhat better,
but still a US company, subject to the same problems (they also have a
huge Apple tax for consideration too ... larger than most other taxes,
even the M$ taxes that are paid for licensed software).

If you have a smart phone, chances are it is Android (Google owned IP
and control) or iOS (Apple owned IP and control).  Even if you have a
Linux based phone (other than Android), then you still have the issues
of components above the OS to consider.  Sure you could use Cyanogen
Mod, but that is still based on Android ... just less Google.

Further on trust, given what we know now about BadUSB and all the stuff
in the NSA /store/ ... you can't even trust any hardware!

In terms of hardware, I don't want any fingerprint readers, nor do I
want any other unwanted spying /tools/ to be available to the spooks.
Anything with Intel inside is also suspect for similar reasons to the
issues with Microsoft / Google / Apple being based in the US.  The
mobile I want today is the OnePlus One ... Chinese made, can we trust
them?  It's a very, very sorry state of affairs when you realize that
you cannot trust any company to keep you safe and with privacy; with
limited or no trust in hardware, ditto for software.

As an Australian, in Australia (all my life), I am supposed to be /free/
from NSA spying, but that doesn't rule out our own security agencies.
Nor does it help if I wish to use Tor and/or other encrypting / privacy
related technology.

The biggest impediment to doing video calls is the bandwidth or lack
thereof worldwide ... in AU we have a stick government that got voted in
thanks to the media doing a real hatchet job on the previous government.
 No government is perfect, but at least our former government was
working towards giving us fibre to the premise, not that it would have
solved all bandwidth issues, it would have helped greatly; the current
government wants to give us fraudband for not much less in real cost to
build and far greater cost to operate -- it's a political mess and we
all [or least a great majority] suffer the consequences.

I'll still stay clear of Skype, I don't need it.  I don't use Google
Hangouts, but one day I might; the latter would definitely be my choice
of the two.  We need a Google Hangouts version from Duck Duck Go or
similar.  In the past I've tried Ekiga, but it was never good for me.
Recently I've tried RedPhone, but again network issues and lack of
bandwidth / local servers is a problem.  VoIP can do video without Skype
and there are some VoIP servers that have [at least in the past],
managed to be a gateway to Skype users -- not sure if that was limited
to voice, but it probably was.  I'm sure there must be some other
suitable alternative offering voice and video securely and widely.

Cheers
A.

signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-03 Thread Tom H

On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Andrew McGlashan
 wrote:
>
> There must be an alternative to Skype.
>
> http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/fed-up-with-skype-here-are-6-of-the-best-free-alternatives/

In theory but not in practice - unless you want to use one of the
above and talk to yourself.


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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-03 Thread Tom H

On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Bret Busby  wrote:
>
> I have found, in the last day, that Microsoft has apparently cancelled
> Skype access for versions of Debian before 7.x.
>
> With the error message that I encountered, with my Skype 2.2 (beta)
> running on Debian 6, I went to the Skype web site, and found that they
> have cancelled access for all but the latest version of Skype, and,
> for Debian, it apparently needs Debian 7.x, to run.
>
> No notice (on the Skype mailing list) was given.
>
> I thought that anyone like me, who is running and using Debian 6 (and
> anyone using earlier versions of Debian), most of the time, might like
> to know.

Debian 6 is oldstable so why shouldn't MS decide to withdraw Skype support?

Didn't Google withdraw Chrome support recently? (There was a thread about this.)


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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-02 Thread Paul Ausbeck

What is the difference between Microsoft insisting that Bret upgrade 
from Debian 6 to 7 and other Debian users insisting that Bret upgrade 
from Debian 6 to 7. Don't Debians know why they don't like Microsoft? 
!systemd, !systemd, !systemd


On 8/2/2014 4:55 PM, Bret Busby wrote:

On 03/08/2014, Joel Rees  wrote:

On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Bret Busby  wrote:

On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan 
wrote:

On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote:




And the reason I decided to respond was to ask your reason for not
wanting to use wheezy. Or, rather, if your reason is more important
than your need to communicate cheap.


It is not a matter of communicating cheap.

The ADSL/landline phone package that we have, includes free calls
within this country, and, free landline calls to the countries that we
are most likely to call.

It is the videocalls facility - a technology that is way underused -
"I don't want people to see what I really look like".

I assume that wheezy is Debian 7.

I have Debian 6 set up, and, whilst I have a more powerful computer
with Debian 7 installed on it, Debian 7 appears to be "not up to
scratch" when compared to Debian 6.

I have now managed to get the Debian 7 computer working with LXDE -
GNOME 2 is not available for Debian 7, but, LXDE wil probably do - it
is the best desktop environment (insofar as suitability for me, is
concerned) that I have so far found.

But, Debian 7 does not have iceape, and, Seamonkey is too dificult to
get working.And, so, I will likely continue to use Debian 6, as my
primary operating system, until an acceptable version of Debian, is
available, with iceape (iceape seems to be excluded from one version,
then reappears in a later version, then is excluded, then
reappears...).

So, I will continue to use Debian 6 for most of my stuff, and, may use
Debian 7 from time to time.


With the Skype 2.2 (beta), running on Debian 6, I was able to connect
successfully, and, successfully make videocalls, with people running
Linux, and, with people running MS Windows.

It worked, so Microsoft broke it.
[...]

And you knew that was going to happen. Or you should have known.
Anyway, you definitely know now.


No, I had no advanced warning, as mentioned elsewhere in the thread.

But, I know now, and, have lost access to videocalls.

Annoying.



So, you can build your own chat application if you want, including
video and audio. The entertainment and communication industries are
trying their hardest to prevent you from getting hardware that isn't
roped and tied to IP-laden standards, but you can still do it. All you
have to do is convince the people you need to communicate with to use
your application.


I do not have the skills.

And, I am now too old, and past it, to learn skills like that.


Or update your OS or get a separate machine to dedicate to an
"ordinary user" level OS or something.


I have another computer, as mentioned above, that runs Debian 7, and,
it gets powered up, sometimes. Using that, for something like Skype,
is a bit like having a landline, and, plugging the phone in, for an
hour or so, each week, or each month.


(I don't use skype, in spite of my sister's hints, because, as much as
possible, I don't want anything Microsoft touches on my stuff. When
wheezy goes unsupported and the only upgrade path contains systemd,
I'll have a hard choice to make. Hopefully, I'll be ready to use
openbsd on a daily basis by then. If not, I may decide to use skype
after all.)


I will likely continue to use Debian 6, long after its support ends. I
have a Debian 5 computer, running, as it runs an application upon
which I rely (although, no doubt, the wisdom of my continued use of
the unsupported application, which is not available on Debian 7, and,
I think, on Debian 6, running on the unsupported operating system
version, would likely be challenged)

I had tried PC-BSD, but, could not install it, and could not get any
support from the PC-BSD people or their mailing list. No
acknowledgement of , and, no response to, the critical problems.





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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-02 Thread Chris Bannister

On Sun, Aug 03, 2014 at 06:42:38AM +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
> On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan  
> wrote:
> > On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote:
> >> On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
> >> There is no substitute for Skype (either the software or the service)
> >> whether it be open or closed source,
> >
> > What about Google Hangouts?  That might be a reasonable substitute
> >
> 
> Google? That is even more sinister than the NSA, isn't it? The NSA
> doesn't drive around suburbia, filming everyone in their yards.

The NSA are smarter than that! They have satellites.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-02 Thread AW

Unfortunately, software has bugs.  Some of these bugs are probably very
bad.  I don't work for Microsoft, and I don't use Skype.  In fact, I
haven't used a Microsoft product in many years --- and I would refuse
to use one now mostly on principle However, I wouldn't be too
surprised that there's a really good reason for Skype servers to
require a new version to make a call...

I use Debian for nearly everything... I'm sure there's a way to get you
back up and running.  If you are not sure how and need help, you can
certainly ask either here or me directly if you'd like...

On Sun, 3 Aug 2014 08:11:22 +0800
Bret Busby  wrote:

 On 03/08/2014, Bret Busby  wrote:
 > On 03/08/2014, AW  wrote:
 >>
 >
 > 
 >
 >> So, for many users a Skype client is necessary... unless Microsoft
 >> decided to work on making Skype fully interoperable with other SIP
 >> servers.  Although, I somehow doubt this would ever happen.
 >>
 >> But... To the OP... Debian 6 is no longer a supported version.
 >> Updating shouldn't be too hard as long as the machine is your own.
And >> I seriously doubt anyone can truly expect a new version of a
freely >> offered [not free] software package to be built for a now
unsupported >> OS.
 >>
 >
 > I did not expect for a new version of Skype, to be wriiten for me or
 > for Debian 6.
 >

 In case it is not clear, it is not that a new version of the software,
 is not available for Debian 6 - it is that the software that was
 available for Debian 6, that, as I previously said, worked quite
 happily, was killed suddenly, without just cause.

 It is a bit like a street sniper, killing of members of the public -
 "Why did you kill that person? That person did you no harm." "Because
 I can, and, because I like doing it."

 -- 
 Bret Busby
 Armadale
 West Australia
 ..

 "So once you do know what the question actually is,
  you'll know what the answer means."
 - Deep Thought,
  Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
  "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
  A Trilogy In Four Parts",
  written by Douglas Adams,
  published by Pan Books, 1992

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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

On 03/08/2014, Bret Busby  wrote:
> On 03/08/2014, AW  wrote:
>>
>
> 
>
>> So, for many users a Skype client is necessary... unless Microsoft
>> decided to work on making Skype fully interoperable with other SIP
>> servers.  Although, I somehow doubt this would ever happen.
>>
>> But... To the OP... Debian 6 is no longer a supported version.
>> Updating shouldn't be too hard as long as the machine is your own.  And
>> I seriously doubt anyone can truly expect a new version of a freely
>> offered [not free] software package to be built for a now unsupported
>> OS.
>>
>
> I did not expect for a new version of Skype, to be wriiten for me or
> for Debian 6.
>

In case it is not clear, it is not that a new version of the software,
is not available for Debian 6 - it is that the software that was
available for Debian 6, that, as I previously said, worked quite
happily, was killed suddenly, without just cause.

It is a bit like a street sniper, killing of members of the public -
"Why did you kill that person? That person did you no harm." "Because
I can, and, because I like doing it."

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

On 03/08/2014, AW  wrote:
>

> So, for many users a Skype client is necessary... unless Microsoft
> decided to work on making Skype fully interoperable with other SIP
> servers.  Although, I somehow doubt this would ever happen.
>
> But... To the OP... Debian 6 is no longer a supported version.
> Updating shouldn't be too hard as long as the machine is your own.  And
> I seriously doubt anyone can truly expect a new version of a freely
> offered [not free] software package to be built for a now unsupported
> OS.
>

I did not expect for a new version of Skype, to be wriiten for me or
for Debian 6.

But, it is a bit like imposing a ban on all IPV4 communications -
"well we now have IPV6, so anyone with IPV4 can go and get stuffed",
or, imposing crippleware on all operating systems and applications -
"well you have now had that software available for <6 months | 1 year
| 2 years> and so, we have built in automated death of the software.
It does not work anymore. You have to replace it. It is not our
problem that you did not know that it was going to die suddenly. We
posted a notice at Alpha Centauri, so it is your responsibility to
find the notice and be informed that the end has come."

It is kind of like that thing with the cars that decided that they did
not like the conditions, so they turned themselves off, and came to a
stop, in the middle of heavy freeway traffic.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992

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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

On 03/08/2014, Joel Rees  wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Bret Busby  wrote:
>> On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan 
>> wrote:
>>> On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote:

> And the reason I decided to respond was to ask your reason for not
> wanting to use wheezy. Or, rather, if your reason is more important
> than your need to communicate cheap.
>

It is not a matter of communicating cheap.

The ADSL/landline phone package that we have, includes free calls
within this country, and, free landline calls to the countries that we
are most likely to call.

It is the videocalls facility - a technology that is way underused -
"I don't want people to see what I really look like".

I assume that wheezy is Debian 7.

I have Debian 6 set up, and, whilst I have a more powerful computer
with Debian 7 installed on it, Debian 7 appears to be "not up to
scratch" when compared to Debian 6.

I have now managed to get the Debian 7 computer working with LXDE -
GNOME 2 is not available for Debian 7, but, LXDE wil probably do - it
is the best desktop environment (insofar as suitability for me, is
concerned) that I have so far found.

But, Debian 7 does not have iceape, and, Seamonkey is too dificult to
get working.And, so, I will likely continue to use Debian 6, as my
primary operating system, until an acceptable version of Debian, is
available, with iceape (iceape seems to be excluded from one version,
then reappears in a later version, then is excluded, then
reappears...).

So, I will continue to use Debian 6 for most of my stuff, and, may use
Debian 7 from time to time.

>> With the Skype 2.2 (beta), running on Debian 6, I was able to connect
>> successfully, and, successfully make videocalls, with people running
>> Linux, and, with people running MS Windows.
>>
>> It worked, so Microsoft broke it.
>> [...]
>
> And you knew that was going to happen. Or you should have known.
> Anyway, you definitely know now.
>

No, I had no advanced warning, as mentioned elsewhere in the thread.

But, I know now, and, have lost access to videocalls.

Annoying.

> So, you can build your own chat application if you want, including
> video and audio. The entertainment and communication industries are
> trying their hardest to prevent you from getting hardware that isn't
> roped and tied to IP-laden standards, but you can still do it. All you
> have to do is convince the people you need to communicate with to use
> your application.
>

I do not have the skills.

And, I am now too old, and past it, to learn skills like that.

> Or update your OS or get a separate machine to dedicate to an
> "ordinary user" level OS or something.
>

I have another computer, as mentioned above, that runs Debian 7, and,
it gets powered up, sometimes. Using that, for something like Skype,
is a bit like having a landline, and, plugging the phone in, for an
hour or so, each week, or each month.

> (I don't use skype, in spite of my sister's hints, because, as much as
> possible, I don't want anything Microsoft touches on my stuff. When
> wheezy goes unsupported and the only upgrade path contains systemd,
> I'll have a hard choice to make. Hopefully, I'll be ready to use
> openbsd on a daily basis by then. If not, I may decide to use skype
> after all.)
>

I will likely continue to use Debian 6, long after its support ends. I
have a Debian 5 computer, running, as it runs an application upon
which I rely (although, no doubt, the wisdom of my continued use of
the unsupported application, which is not available on Debian 7, and,
I think, on Debian 6, running on the unsupported operating system
version, would likely be challenged)

I had tried PC-BSD, but, could not install it, and could not get any
support from the PC-BSD people or their mailing list. No
acknowledgement of , and, no response to, the critical problems.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992

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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-02 Thread AW

I've tried linphone once or twice.  The basic issue with SIP phones is
that it's not really possible to jump networks.  It's kind of like a
cellphone network where you can only dial other subscribers of the same
network.

http://en.flossmanuals.net/linphone/

So, for many users a Skype client is necessary... unless Microsoft
decided to work on making Skype fully interoperable with other SIP
servers.  Although, I somehow doubt this would ever happen.

But... To the OP... Debian 6 is no longer a supported version.
Updating shouldn't be too hard as long as the machine is your own.  And
I seriously doubt anyone can truly expect a new version of a freely
offered [not free] software package to be built for a now unsupported
OS.

On Sun, 03 Aug 2014 01:09:14 +0200
Jörg-Volker Peetz  wrote:

 Any experiences with linphone, an open source, multi-platform
alternative?
 -- 
 Regards,
 jvp.
 
 
 
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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

On 03/08/2014, Jörg-Volker Peetz  wrote:
> Any experiences with linphone, an open source, multi-platform alternative?
> --
> Regards,
> jvp.
>
>

Hello.

Yes - I tried that, to connect with another person using Linux, and it
did not work.

Queries were posted to the Linphone list, in February last year -
applying to the version of Linphone for Debian 6 in the Debian
repository (the version cited in the messages posted to the Linphone
list, appears to be the same as the latest version showing as being
available for Debian 6) - no acknowledgement of, or, responses to, the
queries posted to the Linphone list.

So, overall, the experince with Linphone, was bad.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992

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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-02 Thread Joel Rees

On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Bret Busby  wrote:
> On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan  
> wrote:
>> On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote:
>>> On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
>>> There is no substitute for Skype (either the software or the service)
>>> whether it be open or closed source,
>>
>> What about Google Hangouts?  That might be a reasonable substitute
>>
> Google? That is even more sinister than the NSA, isn't it? The NSA
> doesn't drive around suburbia, filming everyone in their yards.

Google has too much money and is out of control.

The NSA has too much money and is out of our control.

There is a difference. Sometimes only minor, but mostly not so minor.

>> I haven't used Skype for a number of years, I was against the way it
>> worked  super nodes, anyone?  Since M$ took ownership, well, that
>> just made it a more bad idea.
>>
>>
>> There must be an alternative to Skype.

Microsoft has been out of our control since it started, and the too
much money part goes back at least 20 years.

If I couldn't trust google, I wouldn't trust Microsoft.

In fact, I still, at this time, use google's free stuff. That won't
last, I know.

>> http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/fed-up-with-skype-here-are-6-of-the-best-free-alternatives/
>>
>
> And, how many opf those, work with Debian Linux 6? And, how many (if
> any) that work with Debian Linux 6, interface successfully with other
> operating systems, such as MS Windows?
>
> With, as an example, Ekiga, on the Ekiga list, a response was
> something like"if you want a working version, you need to be running,
> for Debian, Debian  stable> - no working version would be released for Debian 6".

And the reason I decided to respond was to ask your reason for not
wanting to use wheezy. Or, rather, if your reason is more important
than your need to communicate cheap.

> With the Skype 2.2 (beta), running on Debian 6, I was able to connect
> successfully, and, successfully make videocalls, with people running
> Linux, and, with people running MS Windows.
>
> It worked, so Microsoft broke it.
> [...]

And you knew that was going to happen. Or you should have known.
Anyway, you definitely know now.

So, you can build your own chat application if you want, including
video and audio. The entertainment and communication industries are
trying their hardest to prevent you from getting hardware that isn't
roped and tied to IP-laden standards, but you can still do it. All you
have to do is convince the people you need to communicate with to use
your application.

Or update your OS or get a separate machine to dedicate to an
"ordinary user" level OS or something.

(I don't use skype, in spite of my sister's hints, because, as much as
possible, I don't want anything Microsoft touches on my stuff. When
wheezy goes unsupported and the only upgrade path contains systemd,
I'll have a hard choice to make. Hopefully, I'll be ready to use
openbsd on a daily basis by then. If not, I may decide to use skype
after all.)

-- 
Joel Rees

Be careful where you see conspiracy.
Look first in your own heart.

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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-02 Thread Jörg-Volker Peetz

Any experiences with linphone, an open source, multi-platform alternative?
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Regards,
jvp.



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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

On 03/08/2014, Brian  wrote:
> On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
>
>> Hello.
>>
>> I have found, in the last day, that Microsoft has apparently cancelled
>> Skype access for versions of Debian before 7.x.
>
> How did you find out?

(Please excuse the verbose and convoluted material below in this part
- it is a poorly designed web site, designed to obscure the important
information.)

By going to the Skype web site;
http://www.skype.com/en/
to find whether a message relating to the error below, indicated a
problem with the server.

On the home page for Skype, is

"
Having trouble signing into your Skype app?
You may need to update your version of Skype.
"

In selecting the Support -> Support Home link, which leads to
https://support.skype.com/en/
then clicking on the link, under the heading "TOP FAQs", with the label
"I can't sign in to Skype..."
which leads to
https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA109/i-can-t-sign-in-to-skype
on which web page is
"If you can’t sign into Skype because you can’t connect to Skype, check here.",
with the last two words of that sentence, being a label for a link that leads to
https://support.skype.com/en/category/CONNECTION_ISSUES/
which has

"
Why should I update my Skype Version? What do I need to do to update
my Skype version and continue using Skype?
"

which is a label fopr a link that leads to
https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA34438/why-should-i-update-my-skype-version-what-do-i-need-to-do-to-update-my-skype-version-and-continue-using-skype

which has

"Skype for Linux 2.2/4.2" which is a label for a clickable javascript
() link, that opens up a kinmd of inline
pop-up, that includes the text (that prohibits copying and pasting, as
I assume that the inline pop-up, is entirely an image)
"1. Skype will display one of the messages circled below"
with the first one showing the error message below, in the login
dialogue box for Skype 2.2 (beta)
- see 
https://az545065.vo.msecnd.net/skype-faq-media/faq_content/skype/screenshots/fa34438/fa34438_ddd.png
and
"2. Open your browser and navigate to the downloads page ("downloads
page" being the label for a clickable link) and download the latest
version of Skype. Note that you will need at least a 1GHz processor
and at least 256MB of RAM to run the latesty version of Skype; check
here to ensure your Linux operating system is supported."
The word pair "check here" is a clickable link, that leads to
https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA10328/what-are-the-system-requirements-for-skype
which is one of the web pages that takes an unreasoinably long time to load.
I can not get the web page for the
"check here to ensure your Linux operating system is supported."
to load.

But, on the "Download Skype for Linux" web page, the only option for
Debian Linux, is "Debian 7.0 (multiarch)".

And, once again, the Skype web site is a 
web site, with web pages taking over an hour to load.

Javascript !

>
>> With the error message that I encountered, with my Skype 2.2 (beta)
>> running on Debian 6, I went to the Skype web site, and found that they
>> have cancelled access for all but the latest version of Skype, and,
>> for Debian, it apparently needs Debian 7.x, to run.
>
> What error message? Please post it.

The error message, at the login screen, when entering the password and clicking
, is

"
Sign in failed
Server connect failed
"
see (the image URL from the particular Skype web site web page)
https://az545065.vo.msecnd.net/skype-faq-media/faq_content/skype/screenshots/fa34438/fa34438_ddd.png

>
> Where on the Skype web site did you find something? A link would be much
> appreciated.
>
>> No notice (on the Skype mailing list) was given.
>>
>> I thought that anyone like me, who is running and using Debian 6 (and
>> anyone using earlier versions of Debian), most of the time, might like
>> to know.
>>
>> Insofar as I am aware, no open source equivalent, that works, is
>> available for Debian 6.
>
> There is no substitute for Skype (either the software or the service)
> whether it be open or closed source,
>
>
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>


-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan  wrote:
> On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote:
>> On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
>> There is no substitute for Skype (either the software or the service)
>> whether it be open or closed source,
>
> What about Google Hangouts?  That might be a reasonable substitute
>

Google? That is even more sinister than the NSA, isn't it? The NSA
doesn't drive around suburbia, filming everyone in their yards.

>
> I haven't used Skype for a number of years, I was against the way it
> worked  super nodes, anyone?  Since M$ took ownership, well, that
> just made it a more bad idea.
>
>
> There must be an alternative to Skype.
>
> http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/fed-up-with-skype-here-are-6-of-the-best-free-alternatives/
>

And, how many opf those, work with Debian Linux 6? And, how many (if
any) that work with Debian Linux 6, interface successfully with other
operating systems, such as MS Windows?

With, as an example, Ekiga, on the Ekiga list, a response was
something like"if you want a working version, you need to be running,
for Debian, Debian  - no working version would be released for Debian 6".

With the Skype 2.2 (beta), running on Debian 6, I was able to connect
successfully, and, successfully make videocalls, with people running
Linux, and, with people running MS Windows.

It worked, so Microsoft broke it.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992

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Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7