Re: security camera software/RPi

2014-10-02 Thread Curt 
On 2014-10-01, Curt  wrote:
>
> Here's a howto about the RPi as a surveillance camera that seems decent
> (I've read that all French nuclear power plants have switched to RPi
> surveillance due to budget limitations*).
>
>:-)
>
> *maybe that's why those Greenpeace people parachute in so easily.
>

It has been brought to my attention that I forgot the link:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Raspberry-Pi-as-low-cost-HD-surveillance-camera/


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnm2qeg6.242.cu...@einstein.electron.org

Re: security camera software/RPi

2014-10-01 Thread Jerry Stuckle 
On 10/1/2014 10:57 AM, ken wrote:
> On 10/01/2014 09:08 AM Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 10/1/2014 8:19 AM, ken wrote:
>>> On 10/01/2014 03:49 AM Scott Ferguson wrote:
 On 01/10/14 17:42, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Ma, 30 sep 14, 21:01:52, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 9/30/2014 7:11 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>>> On Sb, 27 sep 14, 05:23:29, ken wrote:

 What other cheap devices devices were you referring to that
 would better handle the load?
>>>
>>> https://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi
>>
>> You've never actually tried a RPi with a camera, have you?
>>
>> As Ken said, the RaspberryPi is a very bad choice for such a
>> job.

 The plural of anecdote is not fact.
 Have *you* tried it?

 The TP-Link TL-WR703N is less powerful than the Raspberry, yet it does
 run 'monitor' with dual cameras.

>
> 1. I think you're mixing up who said what 2. You haven't actually
> read that page, have you?

 Or these:-
 ;http://through-the-interface.typepad.com/through_the_interface/2012/08/creating-a-motion-detecting-security-cam-with-a-raspberry-pi-part-1.html


 ;http://programmaticponderings.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/remote-motion-activated-web-based-video-surveillance-with-raspberry-pi/



>
> Kind regards, Andrei
>


 Kind regards
>>>
>>> While it's understandable, unless one rereads the posts in a thread,
>>> that who said what can be lost, so I'll clarify: I didn't say the RPi
>>> was a bad choice for a security camera.  What I did say was that I'd
>>> read that some people claimed to have done it (and were happy with the
>>> result).  Here's one I just read which provides step-by-step
>>> instructions:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are others.
>>>
>>> Re: the contention that "it doesn't work":  That would need more
>>> clarification.  E.g., perhaps full-motion video doesn't work, but this
>>> isn't necessary for a security camera.  In the article I reference
>>> above, the author configured 2fps @ 1280x720.  But then he also was
>>> running a webserver on the same RPi.  I probably wouldn't do that, but
>>> rather offload the video to another machine and watch it from there. The
>>> point is, as is often the case, whether this works or doesn't may well
>>> be contingent on the system's configuration.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> 2fps is not considered adequate for security.  Too much can get lost.
>> The minimum generally recognized is 7.5 fps.  The RPi has trouble with
>> that, even if a webserver isn't running.  As for offloading the video -
>> if you do it via the ethernet port (vs. pulling the SD card), you'll
>> find your RPi won't handle it.  7.5fps at 720p with 24 bit color comes
>> out to over 20 megabytes/sec. - far beyond the RPi's capabilities.
>>
>> So, is the solution to go to a lower resolution camera?  Not really.
>>
>> There are three levels of detail considered for security cameras:
>>
>> 1. Observation - something happened
>> 2. Recognition - something happened and it's someone you recognize
>> 3. Identification - something happened and you don't recognize the
>> person but can match the person to a picture, lineup, etc.
>>
>> #1 doesn't help much - other than to maybe tell you the exact time it
>> happened.  After all, you already KNOW something happened.
>>
>> #2 works if you know the person - i.e. you can see and recognize your
>> kid when he/she comes home.  Much better, but it doesn't help much if
>> you don't know the person.
>>
>> #3 is required for usable security.  To get this, you need a resolution
>> of around 5px/cm (12.5px/in) at the face.  Anything less and you will be
>> *very* lucky to get any useful information.
>>
>> There are a lot of people who know nothing about what they are doing,
>> yet think they have security.  But how many of these people have
>> actually used the information after a crime has been committed?
>>
>> Additionally, as I said before - the RPi doesn't run Debian - the
>> processor the RPi uses is ARM V6 - which is old and not supported by
>> Debian (or any of the standard distributions).  So you are required to
>> use their version (Raspbian) and the software they supply (unless you
>> can compile for ARM V6 yourself).
>>
>> The RPi is a cheap toy, but that's about all it's good for.  The ones I
>> evaluated are now in the landfill.  There are much better ones out there
>> for very little more.
>>
>> You really shouldn't comment on things you know nothing about.
>>
>> Jerry
> 
> Jerry,
> 
> (Re: your last statement:) I don't.  It's good advice, though I guess
> you meant it as an insult.  Thanks for that.
> 
> I wasn't claiming 2fps as a maximum rate, only that it was what one
> person used and was happy with, someone who was running a webserver on
> the same RPI which was also running the camera.  I haven't yet seen any
> load av

Re: security camera software/RPi

2014-10-01 Thread Jerry Stuckle 
On 10/1/2014 10:55 AM, John Aten wrote:
> 
> On Oct 1, 2014, at 8:08 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>
>> The RPi is a cheap toy, but that's about all it's good for.  The ones I
>> evaluated are now in the landfill.  There are much better ones out there
>> for very little more.
> 
> Could you give some recommendations?
> 
> 
> 

The beagleboards are good; personally I like the olinuxino boards.

Jerry


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/542c32bf.10...@attglobal.net

Re: security camera software/RPi

2014-10-01 Thread Curt 
On 2014-10-01, ken  wrote:
>
> As for Raspbian not really being Debian, if true, how would that be 
> relevant to how well the RPi functions for this purpose?
>

Here's a howto about the RPi as a surveillance camera that seems decent
(I've read that all French nuclear power plants have switched to RPi
surveillance due to budget limitations*).

:-)

*maybe that's why those Greenpeace people parachute in so easily.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnm2o88r.2gq.cu...@einstein.electron.org

Re: security camera software/RPi

2014-10-01 Thread ken 

On 10/01/2014 09:08 AM Jerry Stuckle wrote:

On 10/1/2014 8:19 AM, ken wrote:

On 10/01/2014 03:49 AM Scott Ferguson wrote:

On 01/10/14 17:42, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Ma, 30 sep 14, 21:01:52, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

On 9/30/2014 7:11 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Sb, 27 sep 14, 05:23:29, ken wrote:


What other cheap devices devices were you referring to that
would better handle the load?


https://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi


You've never actually tried a RPi with a camera, have you?

As Ken said, the RaspberryPi is a very bad choice for such a
job.


The plural of anecdote is not fact.
Have *you* tried it?

The TP-Link TL-WR703N is less powerful than the Raspberry, yet it does
run 'monitor' with dual cameras.



1. I think you're mixing up who said what 2. You haven't actually
read that page, have you?


Or these:-
;http://through-the-interface.typepad.com/through_the_interface/2012/08/creating-a-motion-detecting-security-cam-with-a-raspberry-pi-part-1.html

;http://programmaticponderings.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/remote-motion-activated-web-based-video-surveillance-with-raspberry-pi/




Kind regards, Andrei




Kind regards


While it's understandable, unless one rereads the posts in a thread,
that who said what can be lost, so I'll clarify: I didn't say the RPi
was a bad choice for a security camera.  What I did say was that I'd
read that some people claimed to have done it (and were happy with the
result).  Here's one I just read which provides step-by-step instructions:




There are others.

Re: the contention that "it doesn't work":  That would need more
clarification.  E.g., perhaps full-motion video doesn't work, but this
isn't necessary for a security camera.  In the article I reference
above, the author configured 2fps @ 1280x720.  But then he also was
running a webserver on the same RPi.  I probably wouldn't do that, but
rather offload the video to another machine and watch it from there. The
point is, as is often the case, whether this works or doesn't may well
be contingent on the system's configuration.




2fps is not considered adequate for security.  Too much can get lost.
The minimum generally recognized is 7.5 fps.  The RPi has trouble with
that, even if a webserver isn't running.  As for offloading the video -
if you do it via the ethernet port (vs. pulling the SD card), you'll
find your RPi won't handle it.  7.5fps at 720p with 24 bit color comes
out to over 20 megabytes/sec. - far beyond the RPi's capabilities.

So, is the solution to go to a lower resolution camera?  Not really.

There are three levels of detail considered for security cameras:

1. Observation - something happened
2. Recognition - something happened and it's someone you recognize
3. Identification - something happened and you don't recognize the
person but can match the person to a picture, lineup, etc.

#1 doesn't help much - other than to maybe tell you the exact time it
happened.  After all, you already KNOW something happened.

#2 works if you know the person - i.e. you can see and recognize your
kid when he/she comes home.  Much better, but it doesn't help much if
you don't know the person.

#3 is required for usable security.  To get this, you need a resolution
of around 5px/cm (12.5px/in) at the face.  Anything less and you will be
*very* lucky to get any useful information.

There are a lot of people who know nothing about what they are doing,
yet think they have security.  But how many of these people have
actually used the information after a crime has been committed?

Additionally, as I said before - the RPi doesn't run Debian - the
processor the RPi uses is ARM V6 - which is old and not supported by
Debian (or any of the standard distributions).  So you are required to
use their version (Raspbian) and the software they supply (unless you
can compile for ARM V6 yourself).

The RPi is a cheap toy, but that's about all it's good for.  The ones I
evaluated are now in the landfill.  There are much better ones out there
for very little more.

You really shouldn't comment on things you know nothing about.

Jerry


Jerry,

(Re: your last statement:) I don't.  It's good advice, though I guess 
you meant it as an insult.  Thanks for that.


I wasn't claiming 2fps as a maximum rate, only that it was what one 
person used and was happy with, someone who was running a webserver on 
the same RPI which was also running the camera.  I haven't yet seen any 
load averages or throughput numbers mentioned for this and that 
configuration... which would be what we should be talking about.  Not 
having those, but only the case cited, we can consider 2fps a minimum 
and one which likely could be improved upon.


You assert that a higher frame rate is necessary.  I'd say it depends 
upon the environment.  If someone is going to walk through my yard and 
steal or break something or try to break in, 2fps will be fine.  There's 
not muc

Re: security camera software/RPi

2014-10-01 Thread John Aten 

On Oct 1, 2014, at 8:08 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> 
> The RPi is a cheap toy, but that's about all it's good for.  The ones I
> evaluated are now in the landfill.  There are much better ones out there
> for very little more.

Could you give some recommendations?



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/98d889d9-c787-4772-9b31-bd544c62f...@gmail.com

Re: security camera software/RPi

2014-10-01 Thread Jerry Stuckle 
On 10/1/2014 8:19 AM, ken wrote:
> On 10/01/2014 03:49 AM Scott Ferguson wrote:
>> On 01/10/14 17:42, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>>> On Ma, 30 sep 14, 21:01:52, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
 On 9/30/2014 7:11 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Sb, 27 sep 14, 05:23:29, ken wrote:
>>
>> What other cheap devices devices were you referring to that
>> would better handle the load?
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi

 You've never actually tried a RPi with a camera, have you?

 As Ken said, the RaspberryPi is a very bad choice for such a
 job.
>>
>> The plural of anecdote is not fact.
>> Have *you* tried it?
>>
>> The TP-Link TL-WR703N is less powerful than the Raspberry, yet it does
>> run 'monitor' with dual cameras.
>>
>>>
>>> 1. I think you're mixing up who said what 2. You haven't actually
>>> read that page, have you?
>>
>> Or these:-
>> ;http://through-the-interface.typepad.com/through_the_interface/2012/08/creating-a-motion-detecting-security-cam-with-a-raspberry-pi-part-1.html
>>
>> ;http://programmaticponderings.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/remote-motion-activated-web-based-video-surveillance-with-raspberry-pi/
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards, Andrei
>>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
> 
> While it's understandable, unless one rereads the posts in a thread,
> that who said what can be lost, so I'll clarify: I didn't say the RPi
> was a bad choice for a security camera.  What I did say was that I'd
> read that some people claimed to have done it (and were happy with the
> result).  Here's one I just read which provides step-by-step instructions:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are others.
> 
> Re: the contention that "it doesn't work":  That would need more
> clarification.  E.g., perhaps full-motion video doesn't work, but this
> isn't necessary for a security camera.  In the article I reference
> above, the author configured 2fps @ 1280x720.  But then he also was
> running a webserver on the same RPi.  I probably wouldn't do that, but
> rather offload the video to another machine and watch it from there. The
> point is, as is often the case, whether this works or doesn't may well
> be contingent on the system's configuration.
> 
> 

Ken,

Please see my comment to Andrei as to why it's not a good choice.

Jerry


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/542bfd41.8050...@attglobal.net

Re: security camera software/RPi

2014-10-01 Thread Jerry Stuckle 
On 10/1/2014 8:19 AM, ken wrote:
> On 10/01/2014 03:49 AM Scott Ferguson wrote:
>> On 01/10/14 17:42, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>>> On Ma, 30 sep 14, 21:01:52, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
 On 9/30/2014 7:11 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Sb, 27 sep 14, 05:23:29, ken wrote:
>>
>> What other cheap devices devices were you referring to that
>> would better handle the load?
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi

 You've never actually tried a RPi with a camera, have you?

 As Ken said, the RaspberryPi is a very bad choice for such a
 job.
>>
>> The plural of anecdote is not fact.
>> Have *you* tried it?
>>
>> The TP-Link TL-WR703N is less powerful than the Raspberry, yet it does
>> run 'monitor' with dual cameras.
>>
>>>
>>> 1. I think you're mixing up who said what 2. You haven't actually
>>> read that page, have you?
>>
>> Or these:-
>> ;http://through-the-interface.typepad.com/through_the_interface/2012/08/creating-a-motion-detecting-security-cam-with-a-raspberry-pi-part-1.html
>>
>> ;http://programmaticponderings.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/remote-motion-activated-web-based-video-surveillance-with-raspberry-pi/
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards, Andrei
>>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
> 
> While it's understandable, unless one rereads the posts in a thread,
> that who said what can be lost, so I'll clarify: I didn't say the RPi
> was a bad choice for a security camera.  What I did say was that I'd
> read that some people claimed to have done it (and were happy with the
> result).  Here's one I just read which provides step-by-step instructions:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are others.
> 
> Re: the contention that "it doesn't work":  That would need more
> clarification.  E.g., perhaps full-motion video doesn't work, but this
> isn't necessary for a security camera.  In the article I reference
> above, the author configured 2fps @ 1280x720.  But then he also was
> running a webserver on the same RPi.  I probably wouldn't do that, but
> rather offload the video to another machine and watch it from there. The
> point is, as is often the case, whether this works or doesn't may well
> be contingent on the system's configuration.
> 
> 

2fps is not considered adequate for security.  Too much can get lost.
The minimum generally recognized is 7.5 fps.  The RPi has trouble with
that, even if a webserver isn't running.  As for offloading the video -
if you do it via the ethernet port (vs. pulling the SD card), you'll
find your RPi won't handle it.  7.5fps at 720p with 24 bit color comes
out to over 20 megabytes/sec. - far beyond the RPi's capabilities.

So, is the solution to go to a lower resolution camera?  Not really.

There are three levels of detail considered for security cameras:

1. Observation - something happened
2. Recognition - something happened and it's someone you recognize
3. Identification - something happened and you don't recognize the
person but can match the person to a picture, lineup, etc.

#1 doesn't help much - other than to maybe tell you the exact time it
happened.  After all, you already KNOW something happened.

#2 works if you know the person - i.e. you can see and recognize your
kid when he/she comes home.  Much better, but it doesn't help much if
you don't know the person.

#3 is required for usable security.  To get this, you need a resolution
of around 5px/cm (12.5px/in) at the face.  Anything less and you will be
*very* lucky to get any useful information.

There are a lot of people who know nothing about what they are doing,
yet think they have security.  But how many of these people have
actually used the information after a crime has been committed?

Additionally, as I said before - the RPi doesn't run Debian - the
processor the RPi uses is ARM V6 - which is old and not supported by
Debian (or any of the standard distributions).  So you are required to
use their version (Raspbian) and the software they supply (unless you
can compile for ARM V6 yourself).

The RPi is a cheap toy, but that's about all it's good for.  The ones I
evaluated are now in the landfill.  There are much better ones out there
for very little more.

You really shouldn't comment on things you know nothing about.

Jerry


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/542bfcd9.2010...@attglobal.net

Re: security camera software/RPi

2014-10-01 Thread ken 

On 10/01/2014 03:49 AM Scott Ferguson wrote:

On 01/10/14 17:42, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Ma, 30 sep 14, 21:01:52, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

On 9/30/2014 7:11 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Sb, 27 sep 14, 05:23:29, ken wrote:


What other cheap devices devices were you referring to that
would better handle the load?


https://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi


You've never actually tried a RPi with a camera, have you?

As Ken said, the RaspberryPi is a very bad choice for such a
job.


The plural of anecdote is not fact.
Have *you* tried it?

The TP-Link TL-WR703N is less powerful than the Raspberry, yet it does
run 'monitor' with dual cameras.



1. I think you're mixing up who said what 2. You haven't actually
read that page, have you?


Or these:-
;http://through-the-interface.typepad.com/through_the_interface/2012/08/creating-a-motion-detecting-security-cam-with-a-raspberry-pi-part-1.html
;http://programmaticponderings.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/remote-motion-activated-web-based-video-surveillance-with-raspberry-pi/



Kind regards, Andrei




Kind regards


While it's understandable, unless one rereads the posts in a thread, 
that who said what can be lost, so I'll clarify: I didn't say the RPi 
was a bad choice for a security camera.  What I did say was that I'd 
read that some people claimed to have done it (and were happy with the 
result).  Here's one I just read which provides step-by-step instructions:




There are others.

Re: the contention that "it doesn't work":  That would need more 
clarification.  E.g., perhaps full-motion video doesn't work, but this 
isn't necessary for a security camera.  In the article I reference 
above, the author configured 2fps @ 1280x720.  But then he also was 
running a webserver on the same RPi.  I probably wouldn't do that, but 
rather offload the video to another machine and watch it from there. 
The point is, as is often the case, whether this works or doesn't may 
well be contingent on the system's configuration.



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/542bf160.2090...@mousecar.com

Re: security camera software/RPi

2014-10-01 Thread Scott Ferguson 
On 01/10/14 17:42, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Ma, 30 sep 14, 21:01:52, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 9/30/2014 7:11 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>>> On Sb, 27 sep 14, 05:23:29, ken wrote:
 
 What other cheap devices devices were you referring to that
 would better handle the load?
>>> 
>>> https://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi
>> 
>> You've never actually tried a RPi with a camera, have you?
>> 
>> As Ken said, the RaspberryPi is a very bad choice for such a
>> job.

The plural of anecdote is not fact.
Have *you* tried it?

The TP-Link TL-WR703N is less powerful than the Raspberry, yet it does
run 'monitor' with dual cameras.

> 
> 1. I think you're mixing up who said what 2. You haven't actually
> read that page, have you?

Or these:-
;http://through-the-interface.typepad.com/through_the_interface/2012/08/creating-a-motion-detecting-security-cam-with-a-raspberry-pi-part-1.html
;http://programmaticponderings.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/remote-motion-activated-web-based-video-surveillance-with-raspberry-pi/

> 
> Kind regards, Andrei
> 


Kind regards


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/542bb206.6070...@gmail.com

Re: security camera software/RPi

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei POPESCU 
On Ma, 30 sep 14, 21:01:52, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 9/30/2014 7:11 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > On Sb, 27 sep 14, 05:23:29, ken wrote:
> >>
> >> What other cheap devices devices were you referring to that would better
> >> handle the load?
> > 
> > https://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi
> 
> You've never actually tried a RPi with a camera, have you?
> 
> As Ken said, the RaspberryPi is a very bad choice for such a job.  The

1. I think you're mixing up who said what
2. You haven't actually read that page, have you?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: security camera software/RPi

2014-09-30 Thread Jerry Stuckle 
On 9/30/2014 7:11 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Sb, 27 sep 14, 05:23:29, ken wrote:
>>
>> What other cheap devices devices were you referring to that would better
>> handle the load?
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi
> 
> Kind regards,
> Andrei
> 

You've never actually tried a RPi with a camera, have you?

As Ken said, the RaspberryPi is a very bad choice for such a job.  The
ethernet port internally is processed by the USB connection.  Throughput
is very limited, and even the lowest resolution camera is likely to
overload it to the point where it crashes or, at a minimum, loses data.

Plus it runs a special version of Debian (Raspbian), which is
incompatible with Debian - and many of the Debian packages are not
available.

Before you recommend something, you should try it.  I have a client who
looked seriously at the RPi before discarding it for another board (I
can't say which, but it wasn't a whole lot more expensive than the RPi -
and it works).

Jerry


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/542b5280.20...@attglobal.net

Re: security camera software/RPi

2014-09-30 Thread Andrei POPESCU 
On Sb, 27 sep 14, 05:23:29, ken wrote:
> 
> What other cheap devices devices were you referring to that would better
> handle the load?

https://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: security camera software/RPi

2014-09-27 Thread ken 

On 09/26/2014 04:17 AM Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Vi, 26 sep 14, 09:05:32, Paul Lewis wrote:


In this case I have a Trendnet IP camera which will write to an NFS
share. I was looking for a server device that would be quieter and
consume less power than a conventional machine that I might be able to
run in a headless configuration. The Raspberry Pi seems to fit the
bill.

Throw in a couple of cheap usb drives and it seems to be a very
workable fairly inexpensive system.


Beware I/O performance is horrible and the Raspberry Pi may even crash
under load. I had to cap torrent downloads to 1 MiB/s to get stable
operation. Of course it doesn't help that the ethernet is also connected
via USB (internally).

There are other cheap devices out there with SATA.

Kind regards,
Andrei


Thanks for the warning, Andrei.  (Whenever  it is I get around to 
putting an RPi with a camera together) I was of course planning first to 
test one unit.  When I read about this project, I didn't come across 
anyone talking about performance issues.  The CPU on the RPi is 700MHz, 
which, while not screaming fast, isn't exactly slow.  I'm sure it would 
be wise, however, to shut down unneeded services and generally trim down 
just to what is necessary.


In addition, my plan was not to save the video to a local drive, but 
rather to send it (over wifi/USBv2... and just when motion was detected) 
to a file server.


What other cheap devices devices were you referring to that would better 
handle the load?


Thanks again.



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54268211.2020...@mousecar.com

Re: security camera software

2014-09-26 Thread Scott Ferguson 
On 26/09/14 17:44, ken wrote:
> On 09/25/2014 11:03 PM Scott Ferguson wrote:
>> On 26/09/14 01:48, Rob Owens wrote:
>>> >- Original Message -
 >>From: "Scott Ferguson"
 >>
 >>I've been using motion for a few years and highly recommend it.
 >>Lightweight[*1], simple, and reliable.
 >>
 >>Minimal configuration required (snapshot mode):- Point your camera
 >>at the zone to be monitored. Take a picture. Edit the picture in
 >>GIMP (mask the areas you don't want monitored for motion).
>>> >
>>> >Does this work just as a starting point for motion detection, or can
>>> >you reference this picture for the beginning of any event.
>> Motion works by comparing pictures for changes. So auto-brightness and
>> glare protection are required. Masking allows you to filter out areas of
>> the picture (representing the view of the camera) where change doesn't
>> represent the sort of movement you wish to detect. So a camera that
>> views a gate to a paddock will show a car passing through the gate -
>> it'll also show animals moving in the paddock - birds and planes,
>> clouds, passing traffic in the distance, trees and grasses. Only a small
>> rectangle in the centre of the picture is needed to detect the motion of
>> a vehicle passing through the gate - and the sensitivity of 'motion' to
>> detect changes in that area of the picture is easily tuned to filter out
>> noise (animals wandering across that part of the view etc). The end
>> result is that 'motion' will then reliably detect cars driving through
>> that gate with few or no false positives. The pictures captured are not
>> masked - the mask is only used as a reference for 'motion' to compare
>> snapshots with.
>> ...
> 
> Thanks for the great info on 'motion'.  Another features question:
> 
> My neighborhood is overrun with squirrels and chipmunks.  Is it possible
> to configure 'motion' to ignore the movement of these small creatures
> within the camera's view?
> 
> How about fallen leaves blowing across the driveway?
> 
> 
Yes to all of the above. Did you miss the above example where I have to
deal with rabbits, birds, and moving grass in the background? :)

Another example:-
I have a client whose remote property (Nth NSW) is on the fringes of the
signal from the nearest tower. His house doesn't have line of sight to
the 3G tower and is too far for a decent signal. The solution was to
install a wireless "relay" based around the TP-Link I mentioned earlier
(about $12 from an online auction site, plus a few dollars for a cheap
USB hub, a little extra RAM, and a USB key mounted as an overlay to give
more storage space - all up about $250 including weatherproof case ,
camera, and power supply). The link is powered by a solar cell which
charges a small gel battery.
To protect the relay against theft a cheap USB webcam was added - and
'motion' is used to monitor it. The camera shows the pole mounted
TP-Link (which has line of sight on the house and the tower) and will
capture an image of anyone interfering with it. But a picture of the
thief's face would not be as useful as a picture of the number plate of
the thief's vehicle. Fortunately the camera also shows the paddock gate
through which a vehicle must enter the paddock. The paddock contains
stock (cattle and horses) as well as rabbits, birds, and grasses and
trees that move in the wind - and the occasional vehicle the travels
along the road that parallels the paddock.
So a filter was created that would only show the area where a head would
appear if someone climbed the pole and reached for the computer - and
where the front of the vehicle would be if someone stopped to open the
gate before driving into the paddock (walking would be bull-baiting and
negate the need for a camera). In this instance the built-in web server
was enabled and the port forwarded so that it could be accessed via ssh
from a public web server (secured with .htaccess) so that the landholder
can view the relay and that paddock from any location that has internet
access. (in your instance, where the system is already slow I'd suggest
disabling the webserver) - you can see the last picture in the 'motion'
image save directory.
The filter removes almost 80% of the area that doesn't need to be
monitored. Open a still shot in GIMP and use a selection tool to select
the "monitored area" - hold down shift and create additional "monitoring
areas" as needed". Add a new transparent layer then invert the
selections (now the non-monitoring areas are selected). Select the
flood/fill tool, select "fill all selected area", pick the appropriate
colour and apply. Save the filter in the appropriate format (export as...).
Now that you've excluded non-relevant areas from what is monitored just
reduced the sensitivity until only large things trigger a motion event.
Now 'motion' will ignore the squirrels, birds, blowing leaves and trees
moving in the wind. Sensitivity is a setting based on the degree of
change in the monitored

Re: security camera software/RPi

2014-09-26 Thread Andrei POPESCU 
On Vi, 26 sep 14, 09:05:32, Paul Lewis wrote:
> 
> In this case I have a Trendnet IP camera which will write to an NFS 
> share. I was looking for a server device that would be quieter and 
> consume less power than a conventional machine that I might be able to 
> run in a headless configuration. The Raspberry Pi seems to fit the 
> bill.
> 
> Throw in a couple of cheap usb drives and it seems to be a very 
> workable fairly inexpensive system.

Beware I/O performance is horrible and the Raspberry Pi may even crash 
under load. I had to cap torrent downloads to 1 MiB/s to get stable 
operation. Of course it doesn't help that the ethernet is also connected 
via USB (internally).

There are other cheap devices out there with SATA.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: security camera software/RPi

2014-09-26 Thread Paul Lewis 
On 26/09/14 08:28:02, ken wrote:
>  From what I've read, some have set up such a system on a Raspberry 
> Pi
> 
> running a version of Debian called "Raspbian".  An RPi can be  had in 
> the US for $30-40 and a camera which plugs into a dedicated port on
> the 
> card for about $50 (though I haven't checked prices for months).  The 
> Raspberry Pi website has How-To's which also discuss motion-
> detection,
> 
> off-loading of video, and related topics.
> 

That is pretty much exactly the configuration I was thinking of 
setting up here.

In this case I have a Trendnet IP camera which will write to an NFS 
share. I was looking for a server device that would be quieter and 
consume less power than a conventional machine that I might be able to 
run in a headless configuration. The Raspberry Pi seems to fit the 
bill.

Throw in a couple of cheap usb drives and it seems to be a very 
workable fairly inexpensive system.



  ___

News is what somebody somewhere wants to suppress; all the rest is just 
advertising.

Lord Northcliffe


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1411718732.5963.0@Kingston2

Re: security camera software

2014-09-26 Thread ken 

On 09/25/2014 11:03 PM Scott Ferguson wrote:

On 26/09/14 01:48, Rob Owens wrote:

>- Original Message -

>>From: "Scott Ferguson"
>>
>>I've been using motion for a few years and highly recommend it.
>>Lightweight[*1], simple, and reliable.
>>
>>Minimal configuration required (snapshot mode):- Point your camera
>>at the zone to be monitored. Take a picture. Edit the picture in
>>GIMP (mask the areas you don't want monitored for motion).

>
>Does this work just as a starting point for motion detection, or can
>you reference this picture for the beginning of any event.

Motion works by comparing pictures for changes. So auto-brightness and
glare protection are required. Masking allows you to filter out areas of
the picture (representing the view of the camera) where change doesn't
represent the sort of movement you wish to detect. So a camera that
views a gate to a paddock will show a car passing through the gate -
it'll also show animals moving in the paddock - birds and planes,
clouds, passing traffic in the distance, trees and grasses. Only a small
rectangle in the centre of the picture is needed to detect the motion of
a vehicle passing through the gate - and the sensitivity of 'motion' to
detect changes in that area of the picture is easily tuned to filter out
noise (animals wandering across that part of the view etc). The end
result is that 'motion' will then reliably detect cars driving through
that gate with few or no false positives. The pictures captured are not
masked - the mask is only used as a reference for 'motion' to compare
snapshots with.
...


Thanks for the great info on 'motion'.  Another features question:

My neighborhood is overrun with squirrels and chipmunks.  Is it possible 
to configure 'motion' to ignore the movement of these small creatures 
within the camera's view?


How about fallen leaves blowing across the driveway?


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54251966.2080...@mousecar.com

Re: security camera software/RPi

2014-09-26 Thread ken 
From what I've read, some have set up such a system on a Raspberry Pi 
running a version of Debian called "Raspbian".  An RPi can be  had in 
the US for $30-40 and a camera which plugs into a dedicated port on the 
card for about $50 (though I haven't checked prices for months).  The 
Raspberry Pi website has How-To's which also discuss motion-detection, 
off-loading of video, and related topics.



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54251582.30...@mousecar.com

Re: security camera software

2014-09-25 Thread Scott Ferguson 
On 26/09/14 01:48, Rob Owens wrote:
> - Original Message -
>> From: "Scott Ferguson" 
>> 
>> I've been using motion for a few years and highly recommend it. 
>> Lightweight[*1], simple, and reliable.
>> 
>> Minimal configuration required (snapshot mode):- Point your camera 
>> at the zone to be monitored. Take a picture. Edit the picture in 
>> GIMP (mask the areas you don't want monitored for motion).
> 
> Does this work just as a starting point for motion detection, or can 
> you reference this picture for the beginning of any event.

Motion works by comparing pictures for changes. So auto-brightness and
glare protection are required. Masking allows you to filter out areas of
the picture (representing the view of the camera) where change doesn't
represent the sort of movement you wish to detect. So a camera that
views a gate to a paddock will show a car passing through the gate -
it'll also show animals moving in the paddock - birds and planes,
clouds, passing traffic in the distance, trees and grasses. Only a small
rectangle in the centre of the picture is needed to detect the motion of
a vehicle passing through the gate - and the sensitivity of 'motion' to
detect changes in that area of the picture is easily tuned to filter out
noise (animals wandering across that part of the view etc). The end
result is that 'motion' will then reliably detect cars driving through
that gate with few or no false positives. The pictures captured are not
masked - the mask is only used as a reference for 'motion' to compare
snapshots with.
Masking is only for fixed cameras - not pan/tilt/zoom.

> My impression was that it detects motion based on comparing to the 
> previous picture.

It does - but you get to chose that picture (reference) and which areas
of the picture to monitor for change.

>  So the last picture of the first event would be 
> used as the baseline for triggering a second event.

1st event, 2nd event?  Do you mean image rather than event - event being
change and image not necessarily showing change??

> 
>> Configure motion (set sensitivity and picture frequency) Make sure 
>> you've got enough space for the images it will generate - after 
>> setting the frequency and archiving. Set up your action on motion 
>> detection. I use an sms alert which notifies me of motion and 
>> emails the picture of the event and several minutes of photos 
>> preceding the event (bash script, sendmail, and gcsms). That way
>> if the cameras and computer get stolen I don't lose the images.
>> 
>> [*1]I was impressed to find it runs well on $12 TP-Link TL-WR703N 
>> devices
> 
> How are you doing that?  Running OpenWRT or something?

Yes (OpenWRT). Generally used for remote systems as they have builtin 3G
support, are tiny, cheap, and have minimal power requirements.
Debian is much simpler though.

> 
> Thanks for all the info.


If you have any problems post some more detail about your requirements -
what are you monitoring with (still, colour, USB or TV-card etc), what
resources does the system have available (how much RAM, processor), what
do you wish to do (alert only - or remotely viewable and alert, the
latter plus a "video" of a given time period around the motion event etc.).

> 
> -Rob
> 
> 


Kind regards


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5424d768.3060...@gmail.com

Re: security camera software

2014-09-25 Thread Rob Owens 
- Original Message -
> From: "Scott Ferguson" 
> 
> I've been using motion for a few years and highly recommend it.
> Lightweight[*1], simple, and reliable.
> 
> Minimal configuration required (snapshot mode):-
> Point your camera at the zone to be monitored.
> Take a picture.
> Edit the picture in GIMP (mask the areas you don't want monitored for
> motion).

Does this work just as a starting point for motion detection, or can you 
reference this picture for the beginning of any event.  My impression was that 
it detects motion based on comparing to the previous picture.  So the last 
picture of the first event would be used as the baseline for triggering a 
second event.

> Configure motion (set sensitivity and picture frequency)
> Make sure you've got enough space for the images it will generate -
> after setting the frequency and archiving.
> Set up your action on motion detection. I use an sms alert which
> notifies me of motion and emails the picture of the event and several
> minutes of photos preceding the event (bash script, sendmail, and
> gcsms). That way if the cameras and computer get stolen I don't lose the
> images.
> 
> [*1]I was impressed to find it runs well on $12 TP-Link TL-WR703N devices

How are you doing that?  Running OpenWRT or something?

Thanks for all the info.

-Rob


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/247092421.3798574.1411660092423.javamail.zim...@ptd.net

Re: security camera software

2014-09-25 Thread Scott Ferguson 
On 24/09/14 23:43, Rob Owens wrote:
> I need to set up a couple usb cameras to record video based on motion
> detection.  I prefer ease of setup to a large feature set, since this
> is expected to be only temporary.  I want to only record when there
> is motion, so I don't have hours of footage to search through.

Motion fits you requirements exactly. It 'is' highly configurable - but
minimal configuration is very simple.

> 
> A quick search shows recommendations for a package called 'motion'.
> Does anybody here have any experience with that, or can anybody
> recommend something better?
> 
> -Rob
> 
> 


I've been using motion for a few years and highly recommend it.
Lightweight[*1], simple, and reliable.

Minimal configuration required (snapshot mode):-
Point your camera at the zone to be monitored.
Take a picture.
Edit the picture in GIMP (mask the areas you don't want monitored for
motion).
Configure motion (set sensitivity and picture frequency)
Make sure you've got enough space for the images it will generate -
after setting the frequency and archiving.
Set up your action on motion detection. I use an sms alert which
notifies me of motion and emails the picture of the event and several
minutes of photos preceding the event (bash script, sendmail, and
gcsms). That way if the cameras and computer get stolen I don't lose the
images.

[*1]I was impressed to find it runs well on $12 TP-Link TL-WR703N devices


Kind regards


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54242bfd.8070...@gmail.com

Re: security camera software

2014-09-24 Thread Rob Owens 
- Original Message -
> From: "Bob McGowan" 
> 
> On 9/24/14, 6:43 AM, "Rob Owens"  wrote:
> 
> >I need to set up a couple usb cameras to record video based on motion
> >detection.  I prefer ease of setup to a large feature set, since this is
> >expected to be only temporary.  I want to only record when there is
> >motion, so I don't have hours of footage to search through.
> >
> >A quick search shows recommendations for a package called 'motion'.  Does
> >anybody here have any experience with that, or can anybody recommend
> >something better?
> >
> >-Rob
> > 
> 
> I've looked into video surveillance also and only found 'motion', as the
> "simple" interface.
> 
> The only other tool I've found is zoneminder, which is web based and much
> more complex.
> 

I've been looking at the 'motion' docs and it seems straightforward, so I'll 
give it a try.  It supports multiple cameras, which was one of my concerns.

I've seen zoneminder in the past and I think it's much more than I need right 
now.

I will have a look at camorama, based on Hans' suggestions.

Thanks everyone for your help.

-Rob


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/41405936.3370333.1411576610564.javamail.zim...@ptd.net

Re: security camera software

2014-09-24 Thread Bob McGowan 
On 9/24/14, 6:43 AM, "Rob Owens"  wrote:

>I need to set up a couple usb cameras to record video based on motion
>detection.  I prefer ease of setup to a large feature set, since this is
>expected to be only temporary.  I want to only record when there is
>motion, so I don't have hours of footage to search through.
>
>A quick search shows recommendations for a package called 'motion'.  Does
>anybody here have any experience with that, or can anybody recommend
>something better?
>
>-Rob
>
>
>-- 
>To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
>with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
>listmas...@lists.debian.org
>Archive: 
>https://lists.debian.org/1042477523.3261725.1411566214153.JavaMail.zimbra@
>ptd.net
>


I've looked into video surveillance also and only found 'motion', as the
"simple" interface.

The only other tool I've found is zoneminder, which is web based and much
more complex.

Bob


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/d0483818.4369%bob_mcgo...@symantec.com