Re: Why is /var/lib/apt/lists not in /var/cache?

[David Wright]

On Sat 16 Dec 2023 at 12:50:51 (-0500), Stefan Monnier wrote:
> David Wright [2023-12-16 11:30:01] wrote:
> > On Sat 16 Dec 2023 at 10:59:48 (-0500), Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >> AFAICT, all of `/var/lib/apt/lists` is made of files fetched from
> >> repositories, which APT will re-fetch if missing.
> >> So, it sounds to me like it belongs in `/var/cache/apt/lists`, really.
> >> What am I missing?  Or is it just a historical accident?
> >
> > This may not answer your question, but when you fetch new lists,
> > they aren't the same as what was there before, and don't actually
> > match your system until you upgrade it.
> 
> AFAIK those lists aren't supposed to "match your system", are they?
> IIUC they just keep a local copy of the repository's list.

Whether it's considered necessary or desirable depends on the
user and what they use the lists for (apart from the obvious).

> Admittedly if I `apt update` today, and then a week from now I delete
> the lists and do `apt update` again I won't get the same files.
> But similar, if I delete one of the files in
> `/var/cache/apt/archive`, there's no guarantee that I'll be able to
> re-download this exact file next week (tho I guess
> https://snapshot.debian.org/ might still make it possible if you want it
> badly enough).

Some packages will stay the same for years, but in the past week
I can see four occasions when changes in list contents have occurred
on oldstable. So there's little similarity.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Why is /var/lib/apt/lists not in /var/cache?

[Stefan Monnier]

Max Nikulin [2023-12-17 09:10:29] wrote:
> On 16/12/2023 22:59, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> AFAICT, all of `/var/lib/apt/lists` is made of files fetched from
>> repositories, which APT will re-fetch if missing.
>> So, it sounds to me like it belongs in `/var/cache/apt/lists`, really.
> APT running by a regular user is unable to write to /var/cache/apt.

But neither is it able to write to `/var/lib/apt/lists`, AFAICT.


Stefan

Re: Why is /var/lib/apt/lists not in /var/cache?

[Max Nikulin]

On 16/12/2023 22:59, Stefan Monnier wrote:

AFAICT, all of `/var/lib/apt/lists` is made of files fetched from
repositories, which APT will re-fetch if missing.
So, it sounds to me like it belongs in `/var/cache/apt/lists`, really.


APT running by a regular user is unable to write to /var/cache/apt. E.g. 
DNF creates cache in the user home directory in such cases. I like APT 
approach since (at least with default settings) search queries work 
without delay while repository data is being updated. (I am realizing 
that I may get stale results.)


So for APT lists are a bit more than just cache.

Re: Why is /var/lib/apt/lists not in /var/cache?

[Stefan Monnier]

David Wright [2023-12-16 11:30:01] wrote:
> On Sat 16 Dec 2023 at 10:59:48 (-0500), Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> AFAICT, all of `/var/lib/apt/lists` is made of files fetched from
>> repositories, which APT will re-fetch if missing.
>> So, it sounds to me like it belongs in `/var/cache/apt/lists`, really.
>> What am I missing?  Or is it just a historical accident?
>
> This may not answer your question, but when you fetch new lists,
> they aren't the same as what was there before, and don't actually
> match your system until you upgrade it.

AFAIK those lists aren't supposed to "match your system", are they?
IIUC they just keep a local copy of the repository's list.

Admittedly if I `apt update` today, and then a week from now I delete
the lists and do `apt update` again I won't get the same files.
But similar, if I delete one of the files in
`/var/cache/apt/archive`, there's no guarantee that I'll be able to
re-download this exact file next week (tho I guess
https://snapshot.debian.org/ might still make it possible if you want it
badly enough).


Stefan

Re: Why is /var/lib/apt/lists not in /var/cache?

[David Wright]

On Sat 16 Dec 2023 at 10:59:48 (-0500), Stefan Monnier wrote:
> AFAICT, all of `/var/lib/apt/lists` is made of files fetched from
> repositories, which APT will re-fetch if missing.
> So, it sounds to me like it belongs in `/var/cache/apt/lists`, really.
> What am I missing?  Or is it just a historical accident?

This may not answer your question, but when you fetch new lists,
they aren't the same as what was there before, and don't actually
match your system until you upgrade it.

Cheers,
David.

Why is /var/lib/apt/lists not in /var/cache?

[Stefan Monnier]

AFAICT, all of `/var/lib/apt/lists` is made of files fetched from
repositories, which APT will re-fetch if missing.
So, it sounds to me like it belongs in `/var/cache/apt/lists`, really.
What am I missing?  Or is it just a historical accident?


Stefan "whose `/var/lib/apt/lists` is a symlink into /`var/cache`"

lists Facilities Management

[Claire Davis]

Hi,

Would you be interested in an updated Facilities Management email list?

Facilities Director
Maintenance Director
Health and safety
Workplace Manager
Building Manager
Plant Director
Director Safety and Security
Head of Real Estate and Facilities
Facilities Engineer
Site Manager
Business Continuity Manager etc.

We can provide contacts of various job titles from several levels - for e.g.: C 
Suit, VPs, Directors, Managers and staff level contacts

We can customize your list accordingly for any other requirements that you have.

Let us know the job titles and your target audience so we process and send the 
counts.

Regards,
Claire Davis | Marketing Consultant

Reply only opt-out in the subject line to remove from the mailing list.

Re: choose the right email address to send to the lists

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

On 10/03/2023 09:09, cor...@free.fr wrote:

On 10/03/2023 19:30, cor...@free.fr wrote:

I saw some people using email addresses like yahoo, AOL, mail.ru to
post messages to the lists (such as debian-user, postfix-user etc).

I am thinking those addresses which have the strictest DKIM setup are
not suitable to send a list mail, they will be blocked by many
recipients (list members).

For example, yahoo has this DMARC setting:

v=DMARC1; p=reject; pct=100; rua=mailto:d...@rua.agari.com;
ruf=mailto:d...@ruf.agari.com;

And Mail.ru:

v=DMARC1;p=reject;rua=mailto:dmarc_...@corp.mail.ru

And zoho.com:

v=DMARC1; p=reject; sp=reject; fo=0;
rua=mailto:dmarcaggregat...@zoho.com;
ruf=mailto:dmarcaggregat...@zoho.com

The all have "p=reject" rules which mean when DKIM (most modern email
providers have this enabled) break at the recipient end, this mail
will be rejected by the recipient MTA.

As we know DKIM will fail due to:

1. SPF fail (for the From: address in header) - this will 100% happen
regardless list server implements SRS or not.
2. DKIM fail (for header address as well) - this will most probably
happen since some list servers change the message content by adding a
signature etc.


So we should choose a email address which at least has no "p=reject"
in their DKIM policy.




I am sorry for the typos. What I meant is DMARC, not DKIM. :)


This list does not modify the contents, except for adding List-* headers.

So as long as these are not part of the signature, DKIM should pass. 
Your emails, for example, had a valid DKIM signature. So should this one.


This is enough to satisfy DMARC.


--
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
edua...@kalinowski.com.br

Re: choose the right email address to send to the lists

[coreyh]

On 10/03/2023 19:30, cor...@free.fr wrote:

I saw some people using email addresses like yahoo, AOL, mail.ru to
post messages to the lists (such as debian-user, postfix-user etc).

I am thinking those addresses which have the strictest DKIM setup are
not suitable to send a list mail, they will be blocked by many
recipients (list members).

For example, yahoo has this DMARC setting:

v=DMARC1; p=reject; pct=100; rua=mailto:d...@rua.agari.com;
ruf=mailto:d...@ruf.agari.com;

And Mail.ru:

v=DMARC1;p=reject;rua=mailto:dmarc_...@corp.mail.ru

And zoho.com:

v=DMARC1; p=reject; sp=reject; fo=0;
rua=mailto:dmarcaggregat...@zoho.com;
ruf=mailto:dmarcaggregat...@zoho.com

The all have "p=reject" rules which mean when DKIM (most modern email
providers have this enabled) break at the recipient end, this mail
will be rejected by the recipient MTA.

As we know DKIM will fail due to:

1. SPF fail (for the From: address in header) - this will 100% happen
regardless list server implements SRS or not.
2. DKIM fail (for header address as well) - this will most probably
happen since some list servers change the message content by adding a
signature etc.


So we should choose a email address which at least has no "p=reject"
in their DKIM policy.




I am sorry for the typos. What I meant is DMARC, not DKIM. :)

sorry,
Corey

choose the right email address to send to the lists

[coreyh]

I saw some people using email addresses like yahoo, AOL, mail.ru to post 
messages to the lists (such as debian-user, postfix-user etc).


I am thinking those addresses which have the strictest DKIM setup are 
not suitable to send a list mail, they will be blocked by many 
recipients (list members).


For example, yahoo has this DMARC setting:

v=DMARC1; p=reject; pct=100; rua=mailto:d...@rua.agari.com; 
ruf=mailto:d...@ruf.agari.com;


And Mail.ru:

v=DMARC1;p=reject;rua=mailto:dmarc_...@corp.mail.ru

And zoho.com:

v=DMARC1; p=reject; sp=reject; fo=0; 
rua=mailto:dmarcaggregat...@zoho.com; 
ruf=mailto:dmarcaggregat...@zoho.com


The all have "p=reject" rules which mean when DKIM (most modern email 
providers have this enabled) break at the recipient end, this mail will 
be rejected by the recipient MTA.


As we know DKIM will fail due to:

1. SPF fail (for the From: address in header) - this will 100% happen 
regardless list server implements SRS or not.
2. DKIM fail (for header address as well) - this will most probably 
happen since some list servers change the message content by adding a 
signature etc.



So we should choose a email address which at least has no "p=reject" in 
their DKIM policy.


For example, gmail is good:
v=DMARC1; p=none; sp=quarantine; rua=mailto:mailauth-repo...@google.com

Free.fr (the one I am using):
v=DMARC1;p=none;adkim=r;aspf=r;sp=none

GMX.net:
v=DMARC1; p=none; sp=quarantine; rua=mailto:dmarcrep...@gmx.net; 
ruf=mailto:dmarc-...@gmx.net; adkim=r;aspf=r; fo=1



They all have "p=none" so they probably have no delivery issues to 
mailing lists.


Just my thought though...

Thanks
Corey H

Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing lists [No updates Dec 2022]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics. 

Some guidelines which may help explain how the list works:

* The language on this mailing list is English. There may be other mailing 
  lists that are language-specific, for example, debian-user-french 

* It is common for users to be redirected here from other lists, for example,
  from debian-project. It is also common for people to be posting here when 
  English is not their primary language. Please be considerate.

* The list is a Debian communication forum. As such, it is subject to both 
  the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct
  https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
  https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

* This is a fairly busy mailing list and you may have to wait for an
  answer - please be patient. Please post answers back to the list so
  others can benefit; private conversations don't benefit people who
  may be following along on the list or reading the archives later.

* Help and advice on this list is provided by volunteers in their own time.
  It is common for there to be different opinions or answers provided.

 * Please try to stay on topic. Arguments for the sake of it are not
   welcome here. Partisan political / religious / cultural arguments
   do not belong here either. Debian's community is world wide; do not
   assume others will agree with your views or need to read them on a
   Debian list.

* There is an FAQ on the Debian wiki derived from some questions asked on this
  list at https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

* One question that comes up on almost all Debian lists from time to time is of
  the form: 

  "I have done something wrong / included personal details in an email.
   Could you please delete my name / details / remove the mail"

Practically, this is impossible: the mailing lists are archived, potentially
cached by Google and so on.

Unfortunately, there is nothing much we can do to ensure that all copies
anywhere on the Internet are deleted. Asking to do this may only serve to
draw further attention - the so-called "Streisand effect"
See:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Problems?
=

Complaints about inappropriate behaviour should be referred to the
Debian Community Team .

Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad
behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.

lists | Business clients

[Gary Wozniak]

Hi lists,

I understand that you are a Certified Partner of  Veeam, Would you like to 
connect with Key Decision Makers from companies currently using Veeam Software?

The contacts were verified & updated last month for all marketing initiatives.

Do let us know your current focus as requested below and I shall revert back 
with the volume of contacts, samples and a quote for your review;

Target Technology:?, Target Job Titles:_?,  
Target Geography:___?

Look forward to your feedback.

Thanks & Regards,
Gary Wozniak
Business Development

Re: ad/tracker/cdn servers lists

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 12:08 PM Yassine Chaouche
 wrote:
>
> I'd like to filter out noise from the dns queries log : ad servers, cdn and 
> trackers domains.
> Anyone knows where I can find good lists that are ready to be used by grep 
> and such tools?

I would probably start by looking at Firefox's implementation. I don't
know the specific implementation files to point at, though.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/trackers-and-scripts-firefox-blocks-enhanced-track
.

Jeff

Re: ad/tracker/cdn servers lists

[Gökşin Akdeniz]

4.12.2022 20:07 tarihinde Yassine Chaouche yazdı:

Hello all,

I'd like to filter out noise from the dns queries log : ad servers, cdn 
and trackers domains.
Anyone knows where I can find good lists that are ready to be used by 
grep and such tools?




Dnscrypt-proxy git hub pages has a config file with many repos for 
domain names. A python script is also available for generating a 
complete list f domains. I hope it helps.


https://github.com/DNSCrypt/dnscrypt-proxy/blob/master/utils/generate-domains-blocklist/domains-blocklist.conf


OpenPGP_0x648AAD2AAA3BAD5F_and_old_rev.asc
Description: OpenPGP public key


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

ad/tracker/cdn servers lists

[Yassine Chaouche]

Hello all,

I'd like to filter out noise from the dns queries log : ad servers, cdn and 
trackers domains.
Anyone knows where I can find good lists that are ready to be used by grep and 
such tools?

My plan is to do something like "grep -f /data/domains.txt -v "

I wonder if it's the right approach though and if grep is optimized for this.

Best,

--
Yassine -- sysadm

twitter/ychaouche
IN/ychaouche
github/ychaouche
reddit/u/ychaouche

side work gigs wanted.

Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing lists [No updates November 2022]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics. 

Some guidelines which may help explain how the list works:

* The language on this mailing list is English. There may be other mailing 
  lists that are language-specific, for example, debian-user-french 

* It is common for users to be redirected here from other lists, for example,
  from debian-project. It is also common for people to be posting here when 
  English is not their primary language. Please be considerate.

* The list is a Debian communication forum. As such, it is subject to both 
  the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct
  https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
  https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

* This is a fairly busy mailing list and you may have to wait for an
  answer - please be patient. Please post answers back to the list so
  others can benefit; private conversations don't benefit people who
  may be following along on the list or reading the archives later.

* Help and advice on this list is provided by volunteers in their own time.
  It is common for there to be different opinions or answers provided.

 * Please try to stay on topic. Arguments for the sake of it are not
   welcome here. Partisan political / religious / cultural arguments
   do not belong here either. Debian's community is world wide; do not
   assume others will agree with your views or need to read them on a
   Debian list.

* There is an FAQ on the Debian wiki derived from some questions asked on this
  list at https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

* One question that comes up on almost all Debian lists from time to time is of
  the form: 

  "I have done something wrong / included personal details in an email.
   Could you please delete my name / details / remove the mail"

Practically, this is impossible: the mailing lists are archived, potentially
cached by Google and so on.

Unfortunately, there is nothing much we can do to ensure that all copies
anywhere on the Internet are deleted. Asking to do this may only serve to
draw further attention - the so-called "Streisand effect"
See:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Problems?
=

Complaints about inappropriate behaviour should be referred to the
Debian Community Team .

Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad
behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.

debian-lists-test for your test posts, was Re: Which MTA for from-based smarthost selection, local delivery and queuing?

[David Wright]

On Thu 08 Sep 2022 at 10:54:20 (-0400), rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> Sorry, this is a test email.  Not sure how to do it "off list" (more 
> explanation later, maybe)

There's a very underpublicised list called

  debian-lists-test

specially designed for such tests.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 13 March 2021 23:25:53 David Wright wrote:

> On Fri 12 Mar 2021 at 22:50:48 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Friday 12 March 2021 21:18:16 David Wright wrote:
> > > On Fri 12 Mar 2021 at 18:36:09 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > On Friday 12 March 2021 17:13:40 David Wright wrote:
> > > > > On Thu 11 Mar 2021 at 15:00:06 (-0700), Charles Curley wrote:
> > > > > > On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 14:49:51 -0400 Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
> > > > > > > Does it work if I rather put this signature at the end of
> > > > > > > every message?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Time zone: GMT-4
> > > > > > > Months: Ene = Jan ; Abr = Apr ; Ago = Aug ; Dic = Dec
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Actually, the time zone is redundant, as it is indicated in
> > > > > > the time/date stamp on your emails, as indicated above.
> > > > >
> > > > > It only works with the first level of attribution, because the
> > > > > next person to quote the quote may have a different timezone
> > > > > in their header.
> > > > >
> > > > > And that leaves aside the problem of attributions that have
> > > > > been silently converted into the quoter's timezone, with or
> > > > > without a new TZ being specified).
> > > > >
> > > > > Plus, it does appear that there are MUAs that attribute the
> > > > > time of a quote to the time at which the replier *started
> > > > > their reply* to the original email, which is completely
> > > > > bizarre. (There are several such MUAs posting here.)
> > > >
> > > > Care to point some fingers at them?
> > >
> > > As long as it's clear I'm pointing at the technology, not the
> > > user.
> > >
> > > Hot off the press:
> > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/03/msg00735.html
> > >
> > > This pair is odd; is the MUA using the time of arrival of the
> > > OP at some location?
> > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/12/msg00968.html
> > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/12/msg00970.html
> >
> > Might the OP be useing a hot spot?
>
> Oh, these suggestions were just straws I was grasping at.
>
> For example, someone using a getmail-a-like might latch on
> to the time of that transfer (local time, in localised format …)
> and prefer it to the proper Date:.
>
> And the time of reply would be an obvious consequence of
> evaluating $(date) rather than $(date --date="… …") from
> the Date: field.
>
> > Well, at least it isn't me. KMail has been good for me for around 2
> > decades, and the tde version has been quite solid, generally
> > speaking.
>
> Heh, heh, you'd have heard about it before now. :)

Without a doubt, David, there are folks here who know far more than I 
about the finer points. And the proper attitude is to welcome the 
education. Unforch, I am observing a huge rejection of that idea over on 
the clamav list. And its getting damned boring.

> Cheers,
> David.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[David Wright]

On Fri 12 Mar 2021 at 22:50:48 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Friday 12 March 2021 21:18:16 David Wright wrote:
> > On Fri 12 Mar 2021 at 18:36:09 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Friday 12 March 2021 17:13:40 David Wright wrote:
> > > > On Thu 11 Mar 2021 at 15:00:06 (-0700), Charles Curley wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 14:49:51 -0400 Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
> > > > > > Does it work if I rather put this signature at the end of
> > > > > > every message?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Time zone: GMT-4
> > > > > > Months: Ene = Jan ; Abr = Apr ; Ago = Aug ; Dic = Dec
> > > > >
> > > > > Actually, the time zone is redundant, as it is indicated in the
> > > > > time/date stamp on your emails, as indicated above.
> > > >
> > > > It only works with the first level of attribution, because the
> > > > next person to quote the quote may have a different timezone in
> > > > their header.
> > > >
> > > > And that leaves aside the problem of attributions that have been
> > > > silently converted into the quoter's timezone, with or without a
> > > > new TZ being specified).
> > > >
> > > > Plus, it does appear that there are MUAs that attribute the time
> > > > of a quote to the time at which the replier *started their reply*
> > > > to the original email, which is completely bizarre. (There are
> > > > several such MUAs posting here.)
> > >
> > > Care to point some fingers at them?
> >
> > As long as it's clear I'm pointing at the technology, not the user.
> >
> > Hot off the press:
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/03/msg00735.html
> >
> > This pair is odd; is the MUA using the time of arrival of the
> > OP at some location?
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/12/msg00968.html
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/12/msg00970.html
> >
> Might the OP be useing a hot spot?

Oh, these suggestions were just straws I was grasping at.

For example, someone using a getmail-a-like might latch on
to the time of that transfer (local time, in localised format …)
and prefer it to the proper Date:.

And the time of reply would be an obvious consequence of
evaluating $(date) rather than $(date --date="… …") from
the Date: field.

> Well, at least it isn't me. KMail has been good for me for around 2 
> decades, and the tde version has been quite solid, generally speaking.

Heh, heh, you'd have heard about it before now. :)

Cheers,
David.

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 12 March 2021 21:18:16 David Wright wrote:

> On Fri 12 Mar 2021 at 18:36:09 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Friday 12 March 2021 17:13:40 David Wright wrote:
> > > On Thu 11 Mar 2021 at 15:00:06 (-0700), Charles Curley wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 14:49:51 -0400 Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
> > > > > Does it work if I rather put this signature at the end of
> > > > > every message?
> > > > >
> > > > > Time zone: GMT-4
> > > > > Months: Ene = Jan ; Abr = Apr ; Ago = Aug ; Dic = Dec
> > > >
> > > > Actually, the time zone is redundant, as it is indicated in the
> > > > time/date stamp on your emails, as indicated above.
> > >
> > > It only works with the first level of attribution, because the
> > > next person to quote the quote may have a different timezone in
> > > their header.
> > >
> > > And that leaves aside the problem of attributions that have been
> > > silently converted into the quoter's timezone, with or without a
> > > new TZ being specified).
> > >
> > > Plus, it does appear that there are MUAs that attribute the time
> > > of a quote to the time at which the replier *started their reply*
> > > to the original email, which is completely bizarre. (There are
> > > several such MUAs posting here.)
> >
> > Care to point some fingers at them?
>
> As long as it's clear I'm pointing at the technology, not the user.
>
> Hot off the press:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/03/msg00735.html
>
> This pair is odd; is the MUA using the time of arrival of the
> OP at some location?
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/12/msg00968.html
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/12/msg00970.html
>
Might the OP be useing a hot spot?

> Cheers,
> David.

Well, at least it isn't me. KMail has been good for me for around 2 
decades, and the tde version has been quite solid, generally speaking.

Thanks David.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[David Wright]

On Fri 12 Mar 2021 at 18:36:09 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Friday 12 March 2021 17:13:40 David Wright wrote:
> > On Thu 11 Mar 2021 at 15:00:06 (-0700), Charles Curley wrote:
> > > On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 14:49:51 -0400 Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
> > > > Does it work if I rather put this signature at the end of every
> > > > message?
> > > >
> > > > Time zone: GMT-4
> > > > Months: Ene = Jan ; Abr = Apr ; Ago = Aug ; Dic = Dec
> > >
> > > Actually, the time zone is redundant, as it is indicated in the
> > > time/date stamp on your emails, as indicated above.
> >
> > It only works with the first level of attribution, because the next
> > person to quote the quote may have a different timezone in their
> > header.
> >
> > And that leaves aside the problem of attributions that have been
> > silently converted into the quoter's timezone, with or without a
> > new TZ being specified).
> >
> > Plus, it does appear that there are MUAs that attribute the time
> > of a quote to the time at which the replier *started their reply*
> > to the original email, which is completely bizarre. (There are
> > several such MUAs posting here.)
> 
> Care to point some fingers at them?

As long as it's clear I'm pointing at the technology, not the user.

Hot off the press:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/03/msg00735.html

This pair is odd; is the MUA using the time of arrival of the
OP at some location?
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/12/msg00968.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/12/msg00970.html

Cheers,
David.

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 12 March 2021 17:13:40 David Wright wrote:

> On Thu 11 Mar 2021 at 15:00:06 (-0700), Charles Curley wrote:
> > On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 14:49:51 -0400 Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
> > > Does it work if I rather put this signature at the end of every
> > > message?
> > >
> > > Time zone: GMT-4
> > > Months: Ene = Jan ; Abr = Apr ; Ago = Aug ; Dic = Dec
> >
> > Actually, the time zone is redundant, as it is indicated in the
> > time/date stamp on your emails, as indicated above.
>
> It only works with the first level of attribution, because the next
> person to quote the quote may have a different timezone in their
> header.
>
> And that leaves aside the problem of attributions that have been
> silently converted into the quoter's timezone, with or without a
> new TZ being specified).
>
> Plus, it does appear that there are MUAs that attribute the time
> of a quote to the time at which the replier *started their reply*
> to the original email, which is completely bizarre. (There are
> several such MUAs posting here.)

Care to point some fingers at them?

> Cheers,
> David.

Thanks David.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[David Wright]

On Thu 11 Mar 2021 at 15:00:06 (-0700), Charles Curley wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 14:49:51 -0400 Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
> 
> > Does it work if I rather put this signature at the end of every
> > message?
> 
> > Time zone: GMT-4
> > Months: Ene = Jan ; Abr = Apr ; Ago = Aug ; Dic = Dec
> 
> Actually, the time zone is redundant, as it is indicated in the
> time/date stamp on your emails, as indicated above.

It only works with the first level of attribution, because the next
person to quote the quote may have a different timezone in their header.

And that leaves aside the problem of attributions that have been
silently converted into the quoter's timezone, with or without a
new TZ being specified).

Plus, it does appear that there are MUAs that attribute the time
of a quote to the time at which the replier *started their reply*
to the original email, which is completely bizarre. (There are
several such MUAs posting here.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Cindy Sue Causey]

On 3/11/21, Tixy  wrote:
> On Thu, 2021-03-11 at 13:25 -0400, Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
>> 11 mar 2021 10:40,  wrote:[1]
>> > I would suggest that you leave the date and hour, also, please.  If
>> > I want to
>> > find the original email which might have more context, that is very
>> > helpful.
>>
>> Let me see.  Does this [1] work for you?
>
> Butting into this discussion...
>
> I would suggest that the automatically inserted Spanish version is fine
> and shouldn't be edited. There comes a point where the inconvenience to
> the person sending the message outweighs the trivial benefits to the
> person receiving it.


These are international lists, too. I enjoy being reminded of that via
the attribution when a reply retains the author's language.

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with birdseed *

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[rhkramer]

On Thursday, March 11, 2021 05:00:06 PM Charles Curley wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 14:49:51 -0400
> 
> Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z  wrote:
> > Does it work if I rather put this signature at the end of every
> > message?
> > 
> > 
> > Time zone: GMT-4
> > Months: Ene = Jan ; Abr = Apr ; Ago = Aug ; Dic = Dec
> 
> Actually, the time zone is redundant, as it is indicated in the
> time/date stamp on your emails, as indicated above.

Well it is present in the time stamp quoted above, but the time zone does not 
show up in the (original?) Spanish timestamp.

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 14:49:51 -0400
Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z  wrote:

> Does it work if I rather put this signature at the end of every
> message?
> 

> Time zone: GMT-4
> Months: Ene = Jan ; Abr = Apr ; Ago = Aug ; Dic = Dec

Actually, the time zone is redundant, as it is indicated in the
time/date stamp on your emails, as indicated above.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Charles Curley]

On 21 Ventôse an 229 de la Révolution 12:32:01 -0600
David Wright  wrote:

> One small point: timezones are a great help in making the time
> relevant. I agree on language, no bother. Hey, we've even had one
> person using the French Revolutionary Calendar.

Anyone have any problems with the Mayan calendar? Today being Long
count = 13.0.8.6.2; tzolkin = 3 Ik; haab = 5 Cumku.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Brian]

On Thu 11 Mar 2021 at 12:30:43 -0500, The Wanderer wrote:

> On 2021-03-11 at 12:10, Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Mar 11 2021 at 10:40,  wrote:
> > 
> >> I would suggest that you leave the date and hour, also, please.  If
> >> I want to find the original email which might have more context,
> >> that is very helpful.
> > 
> > I could try but it is more problematic for quick answers since I
> > have the interface in Spanish, unless you don't mind reading:
> > "El jue, 11 mar 2021 a las 10:40,  escribió:"
> 
> For myself, that wouldn't bother me at all. I've seen attribution lines
> in less-recognizable languages, and since all the key information is
> still there and can be parsed with reasonably minimal effort, it serves
> the purpose just fine.

Agreed.
 
> I'd certainly prefer attribution lines like that than a complete lack of
> attribution, or ones with less information, in any case.

Anothe agrement,

It's a pity that Gnus appears incapable of providing an attribution.
Evidence is here:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/03/msg00535.html

-- 
Brian.

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

El jue, 11 mar 2021 a las 15:12,  escribió:
> Yes, especially the Time zone.  The months I can probably figure out.

El jue, 11 mar 2021 a las 15:24, David Wright
() escribió:
> No need for the months. People rarely post replies to such old messages.
> As for inserting it manually, the disadvantage is that it's misleading
> when it's wrong. For example, we change clocks in under a week, and it
> would be easy to forget this instance of a "clock".

Ok thanks.

The month could be useful for archival purposes.  If someone would
like to search
for something even on old threads, then he could find the posts more easy.
But if you really think it is not needed, then I could remove it to not bloat my
posts with that odd signature.

-- 
Time zone: GMT-4
Months: Ene = Jan ; Abr = Apr ; Ago = Aug ; Dic = Dec

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[David Wright]

On Thu 11 Mar 2021 at 14:49:51 (-0400), Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
> El jue, 11 mar 2021 a las 14:30,  escribió:
> > I can live with that ;-)
> 
> El jue, 11 mar 2021 a las 14:30,  escribió:
> > Yes that works for me, but I can live with the Spanish, as well.
> 
> El jue, 11 mar 2021 a las 14:32 (GMT-4), David Wright
> () escribió:[1]
> > One small point: timezones are a great help in making the time relevant.
> > I agree on language, no bother. Hey, we've even had one person using the
> > French Revolutionary Calendar.
> 
> Are you talking about this [1].  I wish that Gmail had an option for
> this too, but I don't know
> if there is one, then I had to write it manually.  While at the PC it
> isn't so difficult,
> it becomes a problem when you write from a phone.

Well, I wouldn't sweat over it. When it's no effort, then it does help
to have the timezone, otherwise you can only rely on the date and the
minutes when searching back as someone described.

For myself, it's just a file with
 set attribution="On %{%a %d %b %Y} at %{%H:%M:%S (%z)}, %n wrote:"
in it, and I can forget about it. Unfortunately, not everybody has
it as easy.

> Does it work if I rather put this signature at the end of every message?
> 
> -- 
> Time zone: GMT-4
> Months: Ene = Jan ; Abr = Apr ; Ago = Aug ; Dic = Dec

No need for the months. People rarely post replies to such old messages.
As for inserting it manually, the disadvantage is that it's misleading
when it's wrong. For example, we change clocks in under a week, and it
would be easy to forget this instance of a "clock".

Cheers,
David.

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[rhkramer]

On Thursday, March 11, 2021 01:49:51 PM Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
> Does it work if I rather put this signature at the end of every message?
-- 
Time zone: GMT-4
Months: Ene = Jan ; Abr = Apr ; Ago = Aug ; Dic = Dec

Yes, especially the Time zone.  The months I can probably figure out.

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

El jue, 11 mar 2021 a las 14:30,  escribió:
> I can live with that ;-)

El jue, 11 mar 2021 a las 14:30,  escribió:
> Yes that works for me, but I can live with the Spanish, as well.

Thanks

El jue, 11 mar 2021 a las 14:32 (GMT-4), David Wright
() escribió:[1]
> One small point: timezones are a great help in making the time relevant.
> I agree on language, no bother. Hey, we've even had one person using the
> French Revolutionary Calendar.

Are you talking about this [1].  I wish that Gmail had an option for
this too, but I don't know
if there is one, then I had to write it manually.  While at the PC it
isn't so difficult,
it becomes a problem when you write from a phone.

Does it work if I rather put this signature at the end of every message?

-- 
Time zone: GMT-4
Months: Ene = Jan ; Abr = Apr ; Ago = Aug ; Dic = Dec

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[David Wright]

On Thu 11 Mar 2021 at 17:42:48 (+), Tixy wrote:
> On Thu, 2021-03-11 at 13:25 -0400, Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
> > 11 mar 2021 10:40,  wrote:[1]
> > > I would suggest that you leave the date and hour, also, please.  If
> > > I want to
> > > find the original email which might have more context, that is very
> > > helpful.
> > 
> > Let me see.  Does this [1] work for you?
> 
> Butting into this discussion...
> 
> I would suggest that the automatically inserted Spanish version is fine
> and shouldn't be edited. There comes a point where the inconvenience to
> the person sending the message outweighs the trivial benefits to the
> person receiving it.

One small point: timezones are a great help in making the time relevant.
I agree on language, no bother. Hey, we've even had one person using the
French Revolutionary Calendar.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[rhkramer]

On Thursday, March 11, 2021 12:25:08 PM Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
> 11 mar 2021 10:40,  wrote:[1]
> 
> > I would suggest that you leave the date and hour, also, please.  If I
> > want to find the original email which might have more context, that is
> > very helpful.
> 
> Let me see.  Does this [1] work for you?

Yes that works for me, but I can live with the Spanish, as well.

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[rhkramer]

On Thursday, March 11, 2021 12:10:30 PM Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 11 2021 at 10:40,  wrote:
> > I would suggest that you leave the date and hour, also, please.  If I
> > want to find the original email which might have more context, that is
> > very helpful.
> 
> I could try but it is more problematic for quick answers since I have
> the interface in Spanish, unless you don't mind reading:
> "El jue, 11 mar 2021 a las 10:40,  escribió:"

I can live with that ;-)

...
> 
> Thanks for pointing it out.  It will surely be helpful.

You're welcome!

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

El jue, 11 mar 2021 a las 13:31, The Wanderer () escribió:
> For myself, that wouldn't bother me at all. I've seen attribution lines
> in less-recognizable languages, and since all the key information is
> still there and can be parsed with reasonably minimal effort, it serves
> the purpose just fine.
>
> I'd certainly prefer attribution lines like that than a complete lack of
> attribution, or ones with less information, in any case.

 El jue, 11 mar 2021 a las 13:43, Tixy () escribió:
> I would suggest that the automatically inserted Spanish version is fine
> and shouldn't be edited. There comes a point where the inconvenience to
> the person sending the message outweighs the trivial benefits to the
> person receiving it.

Thanks.

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Tixy]

On Thu, 2021-03-11 at 13:25 -0400, Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
> 11 mar 2021 10:40,  wrote:[1]
> > I would suggest that you leave the date and hour, also, please.  If
> > I want to
> > find the original email which might have more context, that is very
> > helpful.
> 
> Let me see.  Does this [1] work for you?

Butting into this discussion...

I would suggest that the automatically inserted Spanish version is fine
and shouldn't be edited. There comes a point where the inconvenience to
the person sending the message outweighs the trivial benefits to the
person receiving it.

-- 
Tixy

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[The Wanderer]

On 2021-03-11 at 12:10, Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 11 2021 at 10:40,  wrote:
> 
>> I would suggest that you leave the date and hour, also, please.  If
>> I want to find the original email which might have more context,
>> that is very helpful.
> 
> I could try but it is more problematic for quick answers since I
> have the interface in Spanish, unless you don't mind reading:
> "El jue, 11 mar 2021 a las 10:40,  escribió:"

For myself, that wouldn't bother me at all. I've seen attribution lines
in less-recognizable languages, and since all the key information is
still there and can be parsed with reasonably minimal effort, it serves
the purpose just fine.

I'd certainly prefer attribution lines like that than a complete lack of
attribution, or ones with less information, in any case.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

11 mar 2021 10:40,  wrote:[1]
> I would suggest that you leave the date and hour, also, please.  If I want to
> find the original email which might have more context, that is very helpful.

Let me see.  Does this [1] work for you?

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

On Thu, Mar 11 2021 at 10:40,  wrote:
> I would suggest that you leave the date and hour, also, please.  If I want to
> find the original email which might have more context, that is very helpful.

I could try but it is more problematic for quick answers since I have
the interface in Spanish, unless you don't mind reading:
"El jue, 11 mar 2021 a las 10:40,  escribió:"

> Aside: You (Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z) obviously know how (in the gmail browser
> client) to display the previous text which will be quoted, but for people that
> may not know:
>
> When you click reply in that gmail browser client, you don't see the previous
> text, but, near the bottom of the textbox (on the right side), there are three
> dots (bigger than a period) in an ellipse.  If you click on those, the
> previous text is displayed, and you can delete text or intermix your comments
> as desired.

Thanks for pointing it out.  It will surely be helpful.

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[rhkramer]

On Thursday, March 11, 2021 07:30:02 AM Brian wrote:
> On Thu 11 Mar 2021 at 07:59:27 -0400, Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
> > Brian () wrote:
> > > Please would you not remove the attribution when you quote a mail?
> > 
> > Sure.  Like this?  Or should I leave the date and hour too?
> 
> Thanks; much better. Personally, I would add the date and hour,
> but that could be regarded as a matter of style.

I would suggest that you leave the date and hour, also, please.  If I want to 
find the original email which might have more context, that is very helpful.

Aside: You (Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z) obviously know how (in the gmail browser 
client) to display the previous text which will be quoted, but for people that 
may not know:

When you click reply in that gmail browser client, you don't see the previous 
text, but, near the bottom of the textbox (on the right side), there are three 
dots (bigger than a period) in an ellipse.  If you click on those, the 
previous text is displayed, and you can delete text or intermix your comments 
as desired.

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Brian]

On Thu 11 Mar 2021 at 07:59:27 -0400, Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:

> Brian () wrote:
> > Please would you not remove the attribution when you quote a mail?
> 
> Sure.  Like this?  Or should I leave the date and hour too?

Thanks; much better. Personally, I would add the date and hour,
but that could be regarded as a matter of style.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

Brian () wrote:
> Please would you not remove the attribution when you quote a mail?

Sure.  Like this?  Or should I leave the date and hour too?

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Brian]

On Thu 11 Mar 2021 at 07:11:52 -0400, Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:

> > Hint: you are already doing that, Gmail just hides the quotes for you.
> 
> I do not always let the whole quote there,
> as in this message, for example.  I did it
> at the start of the thread only to give some context.
> 
> Thanks for the hint, though.  Gmail does hide
> the quotes, no matter how long they are.

Please would you not remove the attribution when you quote a mail?

-- 
Brian.

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

> Hint: you are already doing that, Gmail just hides the quotes for you.

I do not always let the whole quote there,
as in this message, for example.  I did it
at the start of the thread only to give some context.

Thanks for the hint, though.  Gmail does hide
the quotes, no matter how long they are.

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 10 mar 21, 21:34:27, Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
> 
> Also, I saw that "reply to all" quotes the whole thread.
> I would not like to bloat the messages with such big quotes.

Hint: you are already doing that, Gmail just hides the quotes for you.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[David]

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 12:34, Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z
 wrote:

> I have a question, why should I use "reply to all" instead of "reply",
> aside that "reply to all" puts the mailing list on copy.

That's my method of persuading Gmail to reply to the list, but it also
requires that I remember to delete all the other recipients and
move the list address into the "To:" field.

> Since I should not send the emails directly to someone,
> I still have to delete the "To:" entry, then I just add the mailing list.

That sounds like an alternative method to get the same outcome :)

> Also, I saw that "reply to all" quotes the whole thread.
> I would not like to bloat the messages with such big quotes.

Agreed. The polite etiquette on this and many other mailing lists
is that you are expected to edit the big quote down by deleting all but
the minimum required to give context for a reader who might
not have read any prior messages. As I have done in this message
for example.

Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

> While it looks like doing that works ok in Gmail, don't do that
> because it is a lazy user-interface-design decision by Gmail that
> is unpopular here because it actually causes problems for everyone else.
>
> Gmail "conversations" are a thing that exists only in Gmail. They
> are a broken simplification of threads that only compare the Subject
> text and apparently ignore the actual threading of the message.
>
> On Debian mailing lists, always use the Gmail compose window to
> begin a new *thread*, and use Gmail "reply-to-all" to existing messages,
> and also *remove* all individual recipients except the list unless they
> have earlier written that they are not subscribed to the list, because
that is
> Debian mailing-list policy.
>
> If you merely change the subject line in Gmail when replying, that does
> *not* create a new thread, because even though it appears that way in
Gmail it
> does not appear that way to users of other email software. Sometimes,
> doing that is a good idea when you want to indicate that the thread topic
has
> diverged without actually starting a new thread, but you should understand
> that it does not create a new thread for most other people seeing your
message.
> In this message for example, the prior Subject has nothing to do with what
> I am writing now, so it is appropriate for me to edit the subject,
> and I have done that.
>
> To see how messages are actually threaded on this list (which Gmail
> does not bother to show you) you can look here:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/03/threads.html
> You should be able to find this message there, and see how it is actually
> still part of the prior thread. Even though it has a different subject and
> to you in Gmail it looks like a different "conversation", to everyone else
> it does not look like that.

Ok, thank you, I saw on the archive that this message is on the same thread,
although Gmail displays it different

I have a question, why should I use "reply to all" instead of "reply",
aside that "reply to all" puts the mailing list on copy.
Since I should not send the emails directly to someone,
I still have to delete the "To:" entry, then I just add the mailing list.

Also, I saw that "reply to all" quotes the whole thread.
I would not like to bloat the messages with such big quotes.

Using Gmail on Debian mailing lists [was Re: Plasma can be a lightweight]

[David]

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 10:04, Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z
 wrote:

> > Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z composed on 2021-03-10 14:59 (UTC-0400):

> > > I'm new to mailing lists.  I didn't now you could link threads (it is
> > > threads, right?).

> > I really have no idea what this question is about.

> I mean, change the subject of the message for a specific conversation.
> But the email program recognizes the different subjects as different
> conversations.

While it looks like doing that works ok in Gmail, don't do that
because it is a lazy user-interface-design decision by Gmail that
is unpopular here because it actually causes problems for everyone else.

Gmail "conversations" are a thing that exists only in Gmail. They
are a broken simplification of threads that only compare the Subject
text and apparently ignore the actual threading of the message.

On Debian mailing lists, always use the Gmail compose window to
begin a new *thread*, and use Gmail "reply-to-all" to existing messages,
and also *remove* all individual recipients except the list unless they
have earlier written that they are not subscribed to the list, because that is
Debian mailing-list policy.

If you merely change the subject line in Gmail when replying, that does
*not* create a new thread, because even though it appears that way in Gmail it
does not appear that way to users of other email software. Sometimes,
doing that is a good idea when you want to indicate that the thread topic has
diverged without actually starting a new thread, but you should understand
that it does not create a new thread for most other people seeing your message.
In this message for example, the prior Subject has nothing to do with what
I am writing now, so it is appropriate for me to edit the subject,
and I have done that.

To see how messages are actually threaded on this list (which Gmail
does not bother to show you) you can look here:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/03/threads.html
You should be able to find this message there, and see how it is actually
still part of the prior thread. Even though it has a different subject and
to you in Gmail it looks like a different "conversation", to everyone else
it does not look like that.

Re: parted lists wrong partitions

[David Wright]

On Sun 27 Sep 2020 at 16:47:43 (-0500), Charles Zeitler wrote:
> so, is displaying partitions of all drives normal behavior for
> parted --list /dev/sdb ?
> 
> On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 12:02 AM Charles Zeitler  wrote:
> > i'm working on a thumb drive to use it as install media.
> > su -c 'parted --list /dev/sdb' (/dev/sdb is thumb drive}
> > lists partitions from /dev/sda (system drive)
> > even when /dev/sdb doesn't exist!

It might be worth consulting the man page on commands that you use
as root. A program like parted could do serious damage otherwise.
I would check commands even where they're posted here, or on helpful
web pages: command options and defaults can change with the version
being used (often left unspecified).

In this case,

   -l, --list
  lists partition layout on all block devices

Cheers,
David.

Re: parted lists wrong partitions

[Charles Zeitler]

hanks, all.

On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 12:02 AM Charles Zeitler  wrote:
>
> i'm working on a thumb drive to use it as install media.
> su -c 'parted --list /dev/sdb' (/dev/sdb is thumb drive}
> lists partitions from /dev/sda 9system drive)
> even when /dev/sdb doesn't exist!
>
> fdisk -l /dev/sdb properly reports it as missing,
> and gparted seems to be unconfused.
>
> so far google refuses to help.
>
> does anybody have any advise?
>
> thanx
>
>
> charles zeitler
>
> --
>  The Perfect Is The Enemy Of
>  The Good Enough



-- 
 The Perfect Is The Enemy Of
 The Good Enough

Re: parted lists wrong partitions

[The Wanderer]

On 2020-09-27 at 17:47, Charles Zeitler wrote:

> so, is displaying partitions of all drives normal behavior for
> parted --list /dev/sdb ?

It's normal behavior for 'parted --list'.

The '--list' option to parted doesn't take an argument. The '/dev/sdb'
is being ignored.

As indicated by Thomas Schmitt, if you want to list just the partitions
from /dev/sdb, you want to run 'parted /dev/sdb print'.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: parted lists wrong partitions

[Charles Zeitler]

so, is displaying partitions of all drives normal behavior for
parted --list /dev/sdb ?

On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 12:02 AM Charles Zeitler  wrote:
>
> i'm working on a thumb drive to use it as install media.
> su -c 'parted --list /dev/sdb' (/dev/sdb is thumb drive}
> lists partitions from /dev/sda 9system drive)
> even when /dev/sdb doesn't exist!
>
> fdisk -l /dev/sdb properly reports it as missing,
> and gparted seems to be unconfused.
>
> so far google refuses to help.
>
> does anybody have any advise?
>
> thanx
>
>
> charles zeitler
>
> --
>  The Perfect Is The Enemy Of
>  The Good Enough



-- 
 The Perfect Is The Enemy Of
 The Good Enough

Re: parted lists wrong partitions

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Sb, 26 sep 20, 00:02:57, Charles Zeitler wrote:
> i'm working on a thumb drive to use it as install media.
> su -c 'parted --list /dev/sdb' (/dev/sdb is thumb drive}

How did you determine that /dev/sdb is the thumb drive?

> lists partitions from /dev/sda 9system drive)
> even when /dev/sdb doesn't exist!
> 
> fdisk -l /dev/sdb properly reports it as missing,
> and gparted seems to be unconfused.

What does 'ls -l /dev/sd*' show?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

parted lists wrong partitions

[Charles Zeitler]

i'm working on a thumb drive to use it as install media.
su -c 'parted --list /dev/sdb' (/dev/sdb is thumb drive}
lists partitions from /dev/sda 9system drive)
even when /dev/sdb doesn't exist!

fdisk -l /dev/sdb properly reports it as missing,
and gparted seems to be unconfused.

so far google refuses to help.

does anybody have any advise?

thanx


charles zeitler

-- 
 The Perfect Is The Enemy Of
 The Good Enough

Recruitment Services from Pakistan for LISTS DEBIAN ORG

[sazjo...@gmail.com]

Attn: Recruitment Dept. (LISTS DEBIAN ORG) 




Dear HR Manager,

 

We (S.A.Z Universal Links) are a dedicated ‘Recruitment and Staffing’ Company 
in the sense that we can staff for a range of different industries. We work in 
a strategically processed manner to help industries attain potential 
candidates. We have been serving many reputable clients such as Almarai 
Company, Al Dossary Construction, Isam Kabbani Group, Al-Latifia Trading & 
Contracting Co, Jaddarah workforce services, Eastern Trading & Const. Est., 
Al-Osais Intenational Holding Co, Jeddah Cables Company, Nesma & Partners, 
Abdullah A.Al-Barrak & Sons Co., Johnson Controls, Saeed R Al-Zahrani 
Corporation (SRACO), Al-Watania Industries, Aecom Arabia Ltd. Co. and many 
more. 

 

We have potential candidates that come from different backgrounds like 
Construction, Maintenance, Oil & Gas, IT, Hospitality/Healthcare, Retail, EPC, 
Civil, Mechanical, Logistics, Banking, Finance, Sales, Marketing, facility 
management etc.

 

We are here to offer you MANPOWER SOLUTIONS from unskilled, semi-skilled & 
skilled professionals, mid to top-level management with the following package:

-- Candidates from Pakistan

-- Qualified candidates daily pouring in

-- Candidates for every field and Industry

-- 24/7 support from our headquarter in Pakistan and from our offices in Dubai, 
Riyadh & Doha.

 

If this is something that piques your interest, let’s set up a time to chat or 
call!

 

I look forward to speaking with you soon to discuss more!

 

Regards,



 

Farrukh A. Shaikh

+92300-8228363


(WhatsApp/IMO/BotIM)

 

For Inquiries, please email to farr...@sazunilinks.com 

 

Please click on below given PDF link and download our detailed company profile 
with some of our work history for your kind reference: 

http://sazunilinks.com/  profile.pdf 

Recruitment Services from Pakistan for LISTS DEBIAN ORG

[sazjo...@gmail.com]

Attn: Recruitment Dept. (LISTS DEBIAN ORG) 




Dear HR Manager,

 

We (S.A.Z Universal Links) are a dedicated ‘Recruitment and Staffing’ Company 
in the sense that we can staff for a range of different industries. We work in 
a strategically processed manner to help industries attain potential 
candidates. We have been serving many reputable clients such as Almarai 
Company, Al Dossary Construction, Isam Kabbani Group, Al-Latifia Trading & 
Contracting Co, Jaddarah workforce services, Eastern Trading & Const. Est., 
Al-Osais Intenational Holding Co, Jeddah Cables Company, Nesma & Partners, 
Abdullah A.Al-Barrak & Sons Co., Johnson Controls, Saeed R Al-Zahrani 
Corporation (SRACO), Al-Watania Industries, Aecom Arabia Ltd. Co. and many 
more. 

 

We have potential candidates that come from different backgrounds like 
Construction, Maintenance, Oil & Gas, IT, Hospitality/Healthcare, Retail, EPC, 
Civil, Mechanical, Logistics, Banking, Finance, Sales, Marketing, facility 
management etc.

 

We are here to offer you MANPOWER SOLUTIONS from unskilled, semi-skilled & 
skilled professionals, mid to top-level management with the following package:

-- Candidates from Pakistan

-- Qualified candidates daily pouring in

-- Candidates for every field and Industry

-- 24/7 support from our headquarter in Pakistan and from our offices in Dubai, 
Riyadh & Doha.

 

If this is something that piques your interest, let’s set up a time to chat or 
call!

 

I look forward to speaking with you soon to discuss more!

 

Regards,



 

Farrukh A. Shaikh

+92300-8228363


(WhatsApp/IMO/BotIM)

 

For Inquiries, please email to farr...@sazunilinks.com 

 

Please click on below given PDF link and download our detailed company profile 
with some of our work history for your kind reference: 

http://sazunilinks.com/  profile.pdf 

Re: Remove from all lists.

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 28 May 2020 08:09:18 -0600
David Anthony  wrote:

> Please remove me from all lists.  Thanks.

If you will examine the headers (CTL-h on most mail readers) of emails
from a list, you will often find unsubscribe information.

For this list, e.g.:

List-Unsubscribe:
<mailto:debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Now you can remove yourself.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Remove from all lists.

[David Anthony]

Please remove me from all lists.  Thanks.



On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:33 PM J B Martin  wrote:

>
> --
> Joseph Bryant Martin
> USA 804 223-0325
> Info Voice
> 804 334-4309
>
>

-- 
*David Anthony*

Church Service Missionary
33 Centerville Commons Way
Centerville, UT 84014
Cell-801-360-4 <801-709-9430>950

Remove from all lists.

[J B Martin]

--
Joseph Bryant Martin
USA 804 223-0325
Info Voice
804 334-4309

Re: introducing myself, I am new to the Debian lists

[l0f4r0]

Hi,

Such an email is pretty rare so thanks for taking the time to write it and 
share your experience :)
I hope you'll enjoy the discussions here.

Cheers Marco!
l0f4r0

introducing myself, I am new to the Debian lists

[Marco Möller]

Hello!
I am Marco, new to the Debian lists, and thought to quickly introduce 
myself before joining conversations or asking questions.
I have several years of experience as a desktop user, always using 
Debian or once for some year a very close derivative of it called Sparky 
Linux. After having used the Debian stable branch for years and 
meanwhile feel well prepared to twiddle with the interference which 
might come up, I recently switched to the testing branch. My current 
desktop environment grew from a minimal KDE Plasma install to a typical 
workstation as used in a life and materials science context for image 
analysis and light programming tasks. My desktop also includes some 
typical internet search and browsing, communication and backup tools. 
Concerning my Linux experience, it's all about being a user who needs 
its work done off the IT business where most of you seem to be involved 
in. However, eventually I am ready to also advance my knowledge about 
the more profound Linux system administration.
I was lurking the lists for some time now and suppose to not only find 
answers to my open questions here but to also be able to contribute a 
little bit to some threads.

Well, here I am!
My special greetings and thanks go to all the developers and all the 
active members of this community who made and make Debian.

Best wishes, from Europe,
Marco.

Re: OT Linux on Android mailing / discussion lists

[Frank Weißer]

Have a look at > https://lineageos.org/

they support many devices and often have an Android version the 
manufacturor dosn't support. So maybe you get Android 5 or higher.


readU
Frank

Paul Sutton:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512


Hi All

Thanks for all the responses for this,  I have looked at Termux and
this seems to be for Android 5 or higher and the device is on 4.x so I
will look at the other options.

Thanks again

Paul


Hi As I am aware this is off topic, (unless we can install
Debian)are there any recommended mailing lists / forums for
installing Linux on Android tablets please?  Asking here as I may
get a useful answer to signpost me to somewhere useful.

We have an old Storage Options scroll Excel II tablet which we
would like to see if we can install Linux on to.

I will ask on the specific mailing list,  however this device does
have a chipset boxchip a10 (ARM) processor so it may be possible
to install debian on.


thanks for any help

Paul



- -- 
Paul Sutton

http://www.zleap.net
gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893  1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - https://www.enigmail.net/
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=aLQ/
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: OT Linux on Android mailing / discussion lists

[Paul Sutton]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512


Hi All

Thanks for all the responses for this,  I have looked at Termux and
this seems to be for Android 5 or higher and the device is on 4.x so I
will look at the other options.

Thanks again

Paul

> Hi As I am aware this is off topic, (unless we can install
> Debian)are there any recommended mailing lists / forums for
> installing Linux on Android tablets please?  Asking here as I may
> get a useful answer to signpost me to somewhere useful.
> 
> We have an old Storage Options scroll Excel II tablet which we
> would like to see if we can install Linux on to.
> 
> I will ask on the specific mailing list,  however this device does 
> have a chipset boxchip a10 (ARM) processor so it may be possible
> to install debian on.
> 
> 
> thanks for any help
> 
> Paul
> 

- -- 
Paul Sutton
http://www.zleap.net
gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893  1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - https://www.enigmail.net/
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=aLQ/
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: OT Linux on Android mailing / discussion lists

[deloptes]

Paul Sutton wrote:

> As I am aware this is off topic, (unless we can install Debian)are
> there any recommended mailing lists / forums for installing Linux on
> Android tablets please?  Asking here as I may get a useful answer to
> signpost me to somewhere useful.
> 
> We have an old Storage Options scroll Excel II tablet which we would
> like to see if we can install Linux on to.
> 
> I will ask on the specific mailing list,  however this device does
> have a chipset boxchip a10 (ARM) processor so it may be possible to
> install debian on.

There are many projects that deal with Linux on mobile devices. Most
successful and promissing IMO is Sailfish (Jolla). Unfortunately they do
not use debian like it was in Nokia N9.

The problem are the device drivers, the kernel and the boot procedure - as
soon as you have solved this - you can install any linux type on it.
Unfortunately not that easy. For example Jolla uses Sony AOSP that provides
access to boot loader, kernel and drivers for some of the Sony devices.
There is also a large community with a lot of ports to specific hardware.

regards

Re: OT Linux on Android mailing / discussion lists

[Dan Ritter]

Paul Sutton wrote: 
> As I am aware this is off topic, (unless we can install Debian)are
> there any recommended mailing lists / forums for installing Linux on
> Android tablets please?  Asking here as I may get a useful answer to
> signpost me to somewhere useful.
> 
> We have an old Storage Options scroll Excel II tablet which we would
> like to see if we can install Linux on to.
> 
> I will ask on the specific mailing list,  however this device does
> have a chipset boxchip a10 (ARM) processor so it may be possible to
> install debian on.

I don't know about your specific machine, but in general Android
devices have lots of unfree device drivers which impede porting 
Debian directly.

It may be useful to you to install the Android package Termux:
https://github.com/termux/termux-app

which is a Debian-like userspace running on your existing
kernel.

The general approach is discussed here:
https://wiki.debian.org/ChrootOnAndroid

There's also "Debian-noroot" which is similar to termux but more
focussed on X11 apps.
https://github.com/pelya/debian-noroot

I hope that's helpful.

-dsr-

OT Linux on Android mailing / discussion lists

[Paul Sutton]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Hi
As I am aware this is off topic, (unless we can install Debian)are
there any recommended mailing lists / forums for installing Linux on
Android tablets please?  Asking here as I may get a useful answer to
signpost me to somewhere useful.

We have an old Storage Options scroll Excel II tablet which we would
like to see if we can install Linux on to.

I will ask on the specific mailing list,  however this device does
have a chipset boxchip a10 (ARM) processor so it may be possible to
install debian on.


thanks for any help

Paul
- -- 
Paul Sutton
http://www.zleap.net
gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893  1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - https://www.enigmail.net/
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=kUEh
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: gftp not getting remote file lists on Buster

[Gary Dale]

On 2019-08-01 12:15 p.m., Brad Rogers wrote:

On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 12:05:49 -0400
Gary Dale  wrote:

Hello Gary,


Any ideas?

If you're open to it:

You could try filezilla and see what transpires.

Raise a support ticket with that one provider, if you haven't already
done so.

Change hosting provider for that one site, to one you know works.

Filezilla had a similar problem but I noticed that it was actually 
stalling when running the MLSD command. Gftp didn't show that, but was 
showing that it was trying to get the remote directory. Searching on 
MLSD revealed that this is a common problem with multiple potential 
solutions. In my case, going into file | preferences | ftp and turning 
off passive transfers worked.


I'm sticking with gftp for now because I've got the bookmarks almost 
back to what I used to have with kbear. I don't want to have to deal 
with setting up new bookmarks if I don't have to.

Re: gftp not getting remote file lists on Buster

[Brad Rogers]

On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 12:05:49 -0400
Gary Dale  wrote:

Hello Gary,

>Any ideas?

If you're open to it:

You could try filezilla and see what transpires.

Raise a support ticket with that one provider, if you haven't already
done so.

Change hosting provider for that one site, to one you know works.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
Going round on the Circle Line trying to find a way out
Titanic (My Over) Reaction - 999


pgp41JWlhaKyX.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

gftp not getting remote file lists on Buster

[Gary Dale]

I used to use kbear for updating my web pages but then it was dropped so 
I've been using gftp for the last several years. It still seems to be 
working for the most part but I have a site with one hosting company 
(directnic) that is giving me problems. I just have the one site with 
this host.


I can connect to the remote ftp server but the file list never 
downloads. Eventually the connection times out.


I can connect from the command line using ftp, view the remote 
directories and upload files, etc.. However this is a little painful.


Gftp still works with sites on another host.

Any ideas?

Re: Other lists? Fire support for new users

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 11:31:07AM -0400, deb wrote:
> For someone trying to pull Windows (and Mac) users into Linux
> does anyone have:
> 
> Preferred other email lists, for new users?

Honestly I don't recommend mailing lists for technical support.
Especially this one where moderation is nearly non-existent and
nothing prevents prolific posters from deluging with inappropriate
or massively-offtopic responses.

I think the Stack Overflow-like web communities of superuser.com and
similar are much better for that use case. Answers supplied need to
be effective and on-topic otherwise they get voted down and buried.

Debian did used to have a similar thing running Shapado. It was at
http://shapado.debian.net/. But it was never very well-used and
ceased to work some years ago. I think this was a shame.

Previous discussion of Debian's now defunct Shapado instance was
here:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2010/10/msg00096.html

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Other lists? Fire support for new users

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 3/22/19, Paul Sutton  wrote:
>
> Why not direct them here,  just perhaps set up their e-mail client so
> that all e-mails are sent to a folder,  that way the main inbox doesn't
> get full of e-mail from here, as there can be quite a lot at times.
> Maybe teach them how to watch specific threads,  so they post a
> question, when it arrives in their inbox from the list, tag it to watch.
>
> I suggest this, as it is the main list for Debian,  plus I am not a full
> expert but can still help with some stuff,  and happy to do so.
>
> Also new users asking questions here can highlight specific issues,  a
> task that should (and is considered simple, by developers or more
> experienced users) may not be,  and may need looking in to as to how
> that task can be made less complex (if that makes sense) or explained
> differently.
>
> Sometimes when new users and developers (including documentation
> editors) can communicate good things happen.  if may also help us
> develop good documentation too, as even writing that can throw up
> questions.


More than a few times, I've seen warm-fuzzies inducing moments where a
tough issue will be discussed here then within sometimes a few hours,
there will be an upgrade posted for the very package that had just
been discussed here.

Yes, that could regularly be a reflection that there was a bug
officially filed. Just sometimes it feels like a developer read
something here then jumped on it, took the initiative to proactively
fix whatever had been ailing at that second to help Users get back on
track as soon as possible. *cool!*

#ThankYou, Developers!

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with birdseed *

Re: (Paul) Re: Other lists? Fire support for new users

[Curt]

On 2019-03-22, Jim Popovitch  wrote:
>> 
>> Like that ^
>
> I have no way to know what ^ is pointing to from your perspective.
>
>> 

It's pointing at Paul from my perspective.

Re: (Paul) Re: Other lists? Fire support for new users

[Jim Popovitch]

On Fri, 2019-03-22 at 13:46 -0400, deb wrote:
> On 3/22/19 1:36 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > On Fri, 2019-03-22 at 13:14 -0400, deb wrote:
> > > I guess I found that some folks here (not many, but vocal) can be gruff
> > > and insensitive; and I just wanted to see if there were more "yielding"
> > > lists.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The last thing I want to do is have new users rebuffed in the spot I
> > > send them to for help.
> > 
> > One of the sure ways to do that is to unnecessarily modify the Subject line 
> > of
> > emails you send..
> > 
> > -Jim P.
> > 
> > 
> 
> Like that ^

I have no way to know what ^ is pointing to from your perspective.

> 
> I was told before to do that if I was talking (or thanking) one person 
> BUT also sharing the data with all.
> 
> I personally would want the name in the subject so that I can see if 
> someone is asking me something directly.
> Some days, there are a lot of emails.
> 
> So --- from the gruff perspective -- which way is it?

It's not a gruff issue, it's a courtesy and common sense issue,  Look at the
ways everyone else sends email, which way do you think it should be?

-Jim P.

Re: (Paul) Re: Other lists? Fire support for new users

[deb]

On 3/22/19 1:36 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote:

On Fri, 2019-03-22 at 13:14 -0400, deb wrote:

I guess I found that some folks here (not many, but vocal) can be gruff
and insensitive; and I just wanted to see if there were more "yielding"
lists.


The last thing I want to do is have new users rebuffed in the spot I
send them to for help.


One of the sure ways to do that is to unnecessarily modify the Subject line of
emails you send..

-Jim P.




Like that ^


I was told before to do that if I was talking (or thanking) one person 
BUT also sharing the data with all.


I personally would want the name in the subject so that I can see if 
someone is asking me something directly.

Some days, there are a lot of emails.

So --- from the gruff perspective -- which way is it?

Re: (Paul) Re: Other lists? Fire support for new users

[Jim Popovitch]

On Fri, 2019-03-22 at 13:14 -0400, deb wrote:
> 
> I guess I found that some folks here (not many, but vocal) can be gruff 
> and insensitive; and I just wanted to see if there were more "yielding" 
> lists.
> 
> 
> The last thing I want to do is have new users rebuffed in the spot I 
> send them to for help.


One of the sure ways to do that is to unnecessarily modify the Subject line of
emails you send..

-Jim P.

(Paul) Re: Other lists? Fire support for new users

[deb]

On 3/22/19 12:39 PM, Paul Sutton wrote:

On 22/03/2019 15:31, deb wrote:

Hello folks:


For someone trying to pull Windows (and Mac) users into Linux
does anyone have:


Preferred other email lists, for new users?

Perhaps more basic than this one?

There are forums, but the emails are a good way to work too.


Thanks!


Why not direct them here,  just perhaps set up their e-mail client so
that all e-mails are sent to a folder,  that way the main inbox doesn't
get full of e-mail from here, as there can be quite a lot at times.
Maybe teach them how to watch specific threads,  so they post a
question, when it arrives in their inbox from the list, tag it to watch.

I suggest this, as it is the main list for Debian,  plus I am not a full
expert but can still help with some stuff,  and happy to do so.

Also new users asking questions here can highlight specific issues,  a
task that should (and is considered simple, by developers or more
experienced users) may not be,  and may need looking in to as to how
that task can be made less complex (if that makes sense) or explained
differently.

Sometimes when new users and developers (including documentation
editors) can communicate good things happen.  if may also help us
develop good documentation too, as even writing that can throw up
questions.

Paul



Thanks Paul:

And I agree -- it would be great to have one place to send them to and 
Yes, old pros can get trends (or early leads) of problems this way.


I guess I found that some folks here (not many, but vocal) can be gruff 
and insensitive; and I just wanted to see if there were more "yielding" 
lists.




The last thing I want to do is have new users rebuffed in the spot I 
send them to for help.


I was just checking to see what else was available :-)

Dig?

Thank you!

Re: Other lists? Fire support for new users

[Paul Sutton]

On 22/03/2019 15:31, deb wrote:
> Hello folks:
>
>
> For someone trying to pull Windows (and Mac) users into Linux
> does anyone have:
>
>
> Preferred other email lists, for new users?
>
> Perhaps more basic than this one?
>
> There are forums, but the emails are a good way to work too.
>
>
> Thanks!
>

Why not direct them here,  just perhaps set up their e-mail client so
that all e-mails are sent to a folder,  that way the main inbox doesn't
get full of e-mail from here, as there can be quite a lot at times.  
Maybe teach them how to watch specific threads,  so they post a
question, when it arrives in their inbox from the list, tag it to watch.

I suggest this, as it is the main list for Debian,  plus I am not a full
expert but can still help with some stuff,  and happy to do so. 

Also new users asking questions here can highlight specific issues,  a
task that should (and is considered simple, by developers or more
experienced users) may not be,  and may need looking in to as to how
that task can be made less complex (if that makes sense) or explained
differently.

Sometimes when new users and developers (including documentation
editors) can communicate good things happen.  if may also help us
develop good documentation too, as even writing that can throw up
questions.  

Paul

-- 
Paul Sutton
http://www.zleap.net
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zleap/
gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893  1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D

Other lists? Fire support for new users

[deb]

Hello folks:


For someone trying to pull Windows (and Mac) users into Linux
does anyone have:


Preferred other email lists, for new users?

Perhaps more basic than this one?

There are forums, but the emails are a good way to work too.


Thanks!

Four new mailing lists of possible interest

[Rich Kulawiec]

Use the email addresses/URLs to subscribe, if you wish.

mint-users  Discussion of the Mint Linux distribution
mint-users-requ...@firemountain.net
http://www.firemountain.net/mailman/listinfo/mint-users
(independent, not affiliated with the Mint Linux project)

dumpsterfireDiscussion of security and privacy issues in the IoT
dumpsterfire-requ...@firemountain.net
http://www.firemountain.net/mailman/listinfo/dumpsterfire

nosql   Discussion of nosql and related technologies
nosql-requ...@firemountain.net
http://www.firemountain.net/mailman/listinfo/nosql
(Quasi-replacement for the nosql-discussion mailing
list hosted by Google, which has apparently been
abandonded by its owner and is now overrun with abuse.)

openvas-users   Discussion of the OpenVAS intrusion detection system
openvas-users-requ...@firemountain.net
http://www.firemountain.net/mailman/listinfo/openvas-users
(independent, not affiliated with the OpenVAS project)

---rsk

Re: handling lists in perl

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 02:48:17PM -0600, David Wright wrote:
> I assume that for two numbers in the second list to be selected, both
> have to match the two members of an individual tuple. As the tuples
> are ordered, I would assume that they are to be tested in the order
> supplied.
> 
> As dictionary lookups are fast, I would convert the second list into
> a dictionary: the number as the dictionary key and the number of
> occurrences as the dictionary value. (Although the problem states
> that the second list shouldn't have duplicates, this method checks
> whether this is indeed the case.)
> 
> Scanning the list of tuples in order, it's now quick to see if both
> members are in the dictionary and, if so, decrement their values or
> delete. What survives of the dictionary keys is the unmatched numbers;
> the matched pairs can be added to a list, individually or as tuples.

Yup, this was my interpretation as well.  He's got what ought to be a
hash stored as a list, and he's got what ought to be a list of lists
stored as a hash.  And we don't know what any of it represents, or
what he wants to do with them, or WHY.

OP, you need to provide an actually readable version of the problem.
Explain what you're doing.  Tell us what your inputs ARE and where
they COME FROM and what you want to DO with them.

Ideally, give actual examples.  Not made-up bullshit examples.  REAL ones.

Re: handling lists in perl

[David Wright]

On Wed 19 Dec 2018 at 16:53:44 (+), Andy Smith wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 09:23:59AM +, mick crane wrote:
> > just to be a bit clearer.
> > given a list A of *unique* numbers
> > and a list B of possible pairings find which pairs you can make from the
> > list A.
> > 6 can pair with 100 and 15 can pair with 100 but they cannot both be
> > in the list of possible pairings because there is only one 100.
> 
> You don't have two lists though; you have a list and a hash. By
> using the correct Perl terminology it will become a lot clearer what
> you want to achieve.
> 
> You have a LIST of numbers.
> 
> You have a HASH that contains KEYS and VALUES.

I don't think the "pairs" form a hash/dictionary; I think they're just
ordered pairs of numbers, better expressed as a tuple. (Sorry to use
python jargon; I stopped using perl in the last millennium.) So we
have a list of tuples and a list of numbers.

> Do you want to match the KEYS from the HASH with the numbers in the
> LIST, or the VALUES from the HASH with the numbers from the LIST?
> And do you want to return what was matched or the KEYS of what was
> matched?
> 
> Since the HASH can have multiple instances of the same VALUE but
> with different KEYS, if you are matching the VALUE against something
> what do you want to do when there is more than one instance of the
> same VALUE?
> 
> You saying, "a list B of possible pairings find which pairs you can
> make from the list A" doesn't help when B is actually a hash,
> because hashes have keys and values, so we don't know if you mean to
> "make pairings" with the key or the value, nor is it entirely clear
> what "make a pairing" means. We can guess you mean "is equal to"
> once we know which thing you want it to be equal to, but it's still
> a guess. Why make us guess? Just say "check for equality" or
> something if that is what you mean. :)

I assume that for two numbers in the second list to be selected, both
have to match the two members of an individual tuple. As the tuples
are ordered, I would assume that they are to be tested in the order
supplied.

As dictionary lookups are fast, I would convert the second list into
a dictionary: the number as the dictionary key and the number of
occurrences as the dictionary value. (Although the problem states
that the second list shouldn't have duplicates, this method checks
whether this is indeed the case.)

Scanning the list of tuples in order, it's now quick to see if both
members are in the dictionary and, if so, decrement their values or
delete. What survives of the dictionary keys is the unmatched numbers;
the matched pairs can be added to a list, individually or as tuples.

Cheers,
David.

Re: handling lists in perl

[deloptes]

Andy Smith wrote:

> You saying, "a list B of possible pairings find which pairs you can
> make from the list A" doesn't help when B is actually a hash,
> because hashes have keys and values, so we don't know if you mean to
> "make pairings" with the key or the value, nor is it entirely clear
> what "make a pairing" means. We can guess you mean "is equal to"
> once we know which thing you want it to be equal to, but it's still
> a guess. Why make us guess? Just say "check for equality" or
> something if that is what you mean. :)

+1

and I think he is coming from game theory corner, given the terminology
used.
Anyway as I said in the first comment it is not exactly clear what OP
wanted. Now we know what OP wants, but it is not clear if it makes sense. I
think this example is ill in itself as even now as you say it is not clear
what should happen with the second match of 100 and why 6 should have
precedence over 15.

Re: handling lists in perl

[Andy Smith]

Hi Mick,

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 09:23:59AM +, mick crane wrote:
> just to be a bit clearer.
> given a list A of *unique* numbers
> and a list B of possible pairings find which pairs you can make from the
> list A.
> 6 can pair with 100 and 15 can pair with 100 but they cannot both be
> in the list of possible pairings because there is only one 100.

You don't have two lists though; you have a list and a hash. By
using the correct Perl terminology it will become a lot clearer what
you want to achieve.

You have a LIST of numbers.

You have a HASH that contains KEYS and VALUES.

Do you want to match the KEYS from the HASH with the numbers in the
LIST, or the VALUES from the HASH with the numbers from the LIST?
And do you want to return what was matched or the KEYS of what was
matched?

Since the HASH can have multiple instances of the same VALUE but
with different KEYS, if you are matching the VALUE against something
what do you want to do when there is more than one instance of the
same VALUE?

You saying, "a list B of possible pairings find which pairs you can
make from the list A" doesn't help when B is actually a hash,
because hashes have keys and values, so we don't know if you mean to
"make pairings" with the key or the value, nor is it entirely clear
what "make a pairing" means. We can guess you mean "is equal to"
once we know which thing you want it to be equal to, but it's still
a guess. Why make us guess? Just say "check for equality" or
something if that is what you mean. :)

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: handling lists in perl

[mick crane]

On 2018-12-19 09:12, mick crane wrote:

On 2018-12-19 08:34, deloptes wrote:

mick crane wrote:


yes but there is only one 100, only one key can have it.
I still try to figure out what goes on with the hash pairs
with a longer list of numbers your example seems to pick up on the
values somehow.
I dunno, unless there is something about using $_ in a loop being
unreliable ?
I persevere to succeed


(1=>8,2=>20,6=>100,15=>100)

this is what you originally posted, so both 6 and 15 match 100 from 
the list


when key is 6 it compares 100 with each element from the list and 
matches

100. Same goes for 15.
No idea what you mean!

regards



given a set of *unique* numbers ( there is just one of the numbers in 
the list)
and a list of possible pairings find which pairs you can make from the 
list.

6 can pair with 100 and 15 can pair with 100 but they cannot both be
in the list of possible pairings because there is only one 100.


just to be a bit clearer.
given a list A of *unique* numbers
and a list B of possible pairings find which pairs you can make from the 
list A.

6 can pair with 100 and 15 can pair with 100 but they cannot both be
in the list of possible pairings because there is only one 100.




--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: handling lists in perl

[mick crane]

On 2018-12-19 08:34, deloptes wrote:

mick crane wrote:


yes but there is only one 100, only one key can have it.
I still try to figure out what goes on with the hash pairs
with a longer list of numbers your example seems to pick up on the
values somehow.
I dunno, unless there is something about using $_ in a loop being
unreliable ?
I persevere to succeed


(1=>8,2=>20,6=>100,15=>100)

this is what you originally posted, so both 6 and 15 match 100 from the 
list


when key is 6 it compares 100 with each element from the list and 
matches

100. Same goes for 15.
No idea what you mean!

regards



given a set of *unique* numbers ( there is just one of the numbers in 
the list)
and a list of possible pairings find which pairs you can make from the 
list.
6 can pair with 100 and 15 can pair with 100 but they cannot both be in 
the list of possible pairings because there is only one 100.





--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: handling lists in perl

[deloptes]

mick crane wrote:

> yes but there is only one 100, only one key can have it.
> I still try to figure out what goes on with the hash pairs
> with a longer list of numbers your example seems to pick up on the
> values somehow.
> I dunno, unless there is something about using $_ in a loop being
> unreliable ?
> I persevere to succeed

(1=>8,2=>20,6=>100,15=>100)

this is what you originally posted, so both 6 and 15 match 100 from the list

when key is 6 it compares 100 with each element from the list and matches
100. Same goes for 15.
No idea what you mean!

regards

Re: handling lists in perl

[mick crane]

On 2018-12-19 07:17, deloptes wrote:

mick crane wrote:


except there is only one 100 in @array it gets me along.
thanks and David too.


but this one 100 satisfies both 6 and 15 so 6 and 15 match.

regards


yes but there is only one 100, only one key can have it.
I still try to figure out what goes on with the hash pairs
with a longer list of numbers your example seems to pick up on the 
values somehow.
I dunno, unless there is something about using $_ in a loop being 
unreliable ?

I persevere to succeed
=o)


mick
--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: handling lists in perl

[deloptes]

mick crane wrote:

> except there is only one 100 in @array it gets me along.
> thanks and David too.

but this one 100 satisfies both 6 and 15 so 6 and 15 match.

regards

Re: handling lists in perl

[mick crane]

On 2018-12-19 00:43, deloptes wrote:

deloptes wrote:


if ( @array =~ /$hash[$key]/) {
print "key $key with value " . $hash{$key} .
" is in the array of values\n";
}


I checked and it seems the right answer is

my %hash = ( 1=>8,2=>20,6=>100,15=>100 );
my @array = (1, 21, 100, 8, 15, 22, 6, 12, 56);

foreach my $key (keys %hash) {
for (  @array ) {
if ($_ eq $hash{$key} ) {
print "key $key with value " . $hash{$key} .
" is in the array of values\n";
}
}
}


except there is only one 100 in @array it gets me along.
thanks and David too.

mick

--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: handling lists in perl

[mick crane]

On 2018-12-19 00:43, deloptes wrote:

deloptes wrote:


if ( @array =~ /$hash[$key]/) {
print "key $key with value " . $hash{$key} .
" is in the array of values\n";
}


I checked and it seems the right answer is

my %hash = ( 1=>8,2=>20,6=>100,15=>100 );
my @array = (1, 21, 100, 8, 15, 22, 6, 12, 56);

foreach my $key (keys %hash) {
for (  @array ) {
if ($_ eq $hash{$key} ) {
print "key $key with value " . $hash{$key} .
" is in the array of values\n";
}
}
}



much appreciated, cheers.

mick

--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: handling lists in perl

[David Christensen]

On 12/18/18 5:43 AM, mick crane wrote:

On 2018-12-18 13:34, mick crane wrote:
sorry I put 15 twice there just to confuse the issue
should be


not really on the topic but...
I'm not very good at perl (or anything else ) and could maybe sort it 
but perhaps there is an extension that does it.

I have an list of pairs
(1=>8,2=>20,6=>100,15=>100)
and an array of unique numbers
(1 21 100 8 15 22 6 12 56 )
I want to see what pairs can be satisfied from the array of numbers, 
send that list to a file and also to another file the left over numbers.



The three canonical Perl (version 5) books are:

1.  Learning Perl -- gets you up the initial learning curve:

http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920049517.do

2.  Perl Cookbook -- "real world" code examples with explanations:

http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596003135.do

3.  Programming Perl -- the language reference:

http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596004927.do


I learned Perl via the first two.  I didn't get into the third until I 
was well on my way.



If you just want to "get it done", here is a starter script:

2018-12-18 18:26:48 dpchrist@tinkywinky ~/sandbox/perl/debian-users
$ cat 20181218-1334-mick-crane.pl
#!/usr/bin/env perl
use strict;
use warnings;
my %pairs  = (1 => 8, 2 => 20, 6 => 100, 15 => 100);
my @unique = (1, 21, 100, 8, 15, 22, 6, 12, 56);
open (my $fh_satisfies, ">satisfies.txt") or die $!;
open (my $fh_leftovers, ">leftovers.txt") or die $!;
for my $k (@unique) {
my $fh = exists $pairs{$k} ? $fh_satisfies : $fh_leftovers;
$fh->print($k, "\n");
}

2018-12-18 18:28:09 dpchrist@tinkywinky ~/sandbox/perl/debian-users
$ perl 20181218-1334-mick-crane.pl

2018-12-18 18:28:22 dpchrist@tinkywinky ~/sandbox/perl/debian-users
$ cat satisfies.txt
1
15
6

2018-12-18 18:28:26 dpchrist@tinkywinky ~/sandbox/perl/debian-users
$ cat leftovers.txt
21
100
8
22
12
56


David

Re: handling lists in perl

[deloptes]

deloptes wrote:

> if ( @array =~ /$hash[$key]/) {
> print "key $key with value " . $hash{$key} .
> " is in the array of values\n";
> }

I checked and it seems the right answer is

my %hash = ( 1=>8,2=>20,6=>100,15=>100 );
my @array = (1, 21, 100, 8, 15, 22, 6, 12, 56);

foreach my $key (keys %hash) {
for (  @array ) {
if ($_ eq $hash{$key} ) {
print "key $key with value " . $hash{$key} .
" is in the array of values\n";
}
}
}

Re: handling lists in perl

[deloptes]

Hi,

it is not exactly clear if you want to test the key or the value of the
pairs, but I assume you are after the values.

mick crane wrote:

> I have an list of pairs
> (1=>8,2=>20,6=>100,15=>100)

this would be a hash array (means key/value pairs)

> and an array of unique numbers
> (1 21 100 8 15 22 6 12 56 )

This is a standard/classic array

> I want to see what pairs can be satisfied from the array of numbers,
> send that list to a file and also to another file the left over numbers.

so iterate over the hash and check for matches in the array

my %hash = ( 1=>8,2=>20,6=>100,15=>100 );
my @array = [1, 21, 100, 8, 15, 22, 6, 12, 56];

foreach my $key (keys %hash) {
if ( @array =~ /$hash[$key]/) {
print "key $key with value " . $hash{$key} .
" is in the array of values\n";
}
}

result
key 6 with value 100 is in the array of values
key 2 with value 20 is in the array of values
key 15 with value 100 is in the array of values
key 1 with value 8 is in the array of values

regards

Re: handling lists in perl

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 01:34:53PM +, mick crane wrote:
> I'm not very good at perl (or anything else ) and could maybe sort it but
> perhaps there is an extension that does it.
> I have an list of pairs
> (1=>8,2=>20,6=>100,15=>100)
> and an array of unique numbers
> (1 21 100 8 15 22 6 12 15 )
> I want to see what pairs can be satisfied from the array of numbers, send
> that list to a file and also to another file the left over numbers.

Start by converting the "array of unique numbers" to a hash (associative
array, dictionary).  That way, you can quickly look up which numbers are
in, or not in, the data set.

Next, set up a second hash to record which numbers have been matched (vs.
which have not) in the following step.  It starts out empty.

Now, iterate over your "pairs".  If both members of the "pair" are
in the first hash, then write the pair to the appropriate output bin,
and add both numbers to the second hash.

When that's finished, you want to find out which numbers from the first
hash are not present in the second hash.  So, iterate over the keys of
the first hash, and any key that is not also in the second hash, write
to the appropriate output bin.

This can be done in any language that has hashes (associative arrays,
dictionaries) and the ability to iterate over a list.  Perl certainly
qualifies, if that's your language of choice.  Python and Tcl can also
do it quite easily.  Even bash could do this, although it would be slow,
and would not be my first pick.

If you need help actually *writing* it in Perl (or whatever language),
you should ask for help in a language-specific mailing list.

Re: handling lists in perl

[mick crane]

On 2018-12-18 13:34, mick crane wrote:
sorry I put 15 twice there just to confuse the issue
should be


not really on the topic but...
I'm not very good at perl (or anything else ) and could maybe sort it 
but perhaps there is an extension that does it.

I have an list of pairs
(1=>8,2=>20,6=>100,15=>100)
and an array of unique numbers
(1 21 100 8 15 22 6 12 56 )
I want to see what pairs can be satisfied from the array of numbers, 
send that list to a file and also to another file the left over numbers.

--
Key ID4BFEBB31

handling lists in perl

[mick crane]

not really on the topic but...
I'm not very good at perl (or anything else ) and could maybe sort it 
but perhaps there is an extension that does it.

I have an list of pairs
(1=>8,2=>20,6=>100,15=>100)
and an array of unique numbers
(1 21 100 8 15 22 6 12 15 )
I want to see what pairs can be satisfied from the array of numbers, 
send that list to a file and also to another file the left over numbers.


mick



--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: Package lists in Debian DVD images

[Allen Hoover]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 07:23:35PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 11:03:14AM -0600, Sergio Arana wrote:
> > Hi,
> 
> Hi,
> 
> first of all: don't just "answer" to a mail in the
> list with another new topic. This is called "thread
> hijacking" and confuses the hell out of us, which are
> here to try to help you, after all :-)
> 
> I posted my answer with a subject which may attract
> people who know an answer (there are more than 3000
> subscribers to this list, you know).
> 
> > I downloaded all 3 DVD images for Debian 9.5 I installed the first one, but 
> > I would like to know how can I check the other two DVDs to see if there is 
> > software I might want to use/install.
> 
> The package lists themselves should be (I think!) in the
> first DVD. So your packaging system should know about all
> packages (and tell you to insert whatever DVD is needed
> while installing).
> 
> Which program are you using to install packages? Dpkg?
> Synaptic?
> 
> Cheers
> -- tomás

Use "apt-cdrom add" to add additional DVD's to the apt repository.


Allen

Re: Package lists in Debian DVD images

[Zenaan Harkness]

(Next thing is, please put your replies at the bottom (not at the
top) of previous message - "bottom posting" is the standard for this
list.)

Have a look in your desktop/menu for "Synaptic Package Manager" - can
you find it?

Inside there you can add the other two DVDs, and then Synaptic will
show you all the packages you have access to.

Let us know if it works, and good luck,



On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 03:51:15PM -0600, Sergio Arana wrote:
> I installed from a USB I used rufus 3.1 for windows to burn the image to the 
> USB stick and boot up the machine from the USB drive.
> 
> ⁣Sent from BlueMail ​
> 
> On Aug 22, 2018, 11:24 AM, at 11:24 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> >-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> >Hash: SHA1
> >
> >On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 11:03:14AM -0600, Sergio Arana wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >first of all: don't just "answer" to a mail in the
> >list with another new topic. This is called "thread
> >hijacking" and confuses the hell out of us, which are
> >here to try to help you, after all :-)
> >
> >I posted my answer with a subject which may attract
> >people who know an answer (there are more than 3000
> >subscribers to this list, you know).
> >
> >> I downloaded all 3 DVD images for Debian 9.5 I installed the first
> >one, but I would like to know how can I check the other two DVDs to see
> >if there is software I might want to use/install.
> >
> >The package lists themselves should be (I think!) in the
> >first DVD. So your packaging system should know about all
> >packages (and tell you to insert whatever DVD is needed
> >while installing).
> >
> >Which program are you using to install packages? Dpkg?
> >Synaptic?
> >
> >Cheers
> >- -- tomás
> >-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> >Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
> >
> >iEYEARECAAYFAlt9nBcACgkQBcgs9XrR2kYvAQCcDgIWfMm8uXSpNYB7QhZYkK9G
> >ZWwAnidEYuUd5hvaoiy/doqm7k51vuAf
> >=dC1D
> >-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Package lists in Debian DVD images

[Sergio Arana]

I installed from a USB I used rufus 3.1 for windows to burn the image to the 
USB stick and boot up the machine from the USB drive.

⁣Sent from BlueMail ​

On Aug 22, 2018, 11:24 AM, at 11:24 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
>-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>Hash: SHA1
>
>On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 11:03:14AM -0600, Sergio Arana wrote:
>> Hi,
>
>Hi,
>
>first of all: don't just "answer" to a mail in the
>list with another new topic. This is called "thread
>hijacking" and confuses the hell out of us, which are
>here to try to help you, after all :-)
>
>I posted my answer with a subject which may attract
>people who know an answer (there are more than 3000
>subscribers to this list, you know).
>
>> I downloaded all 3 DVD images for Debian 9.5 I installed the first
>one, but I would like to know how can I check the other two DVDs to see
>if there is software I might want to use/install.
>
>The package lists themselves should be (I think!) in the
>first DVD. So your packaging system should know about all
>packages (and tell you to insert whatever DVD is needed
>while installing).
>
>Which program are you using to install packages? Dpkg?
>Synaptic?
>
>Cheers
>- -- tomás
>-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
>
>iEYEARECAAYFAlt9nBcACgkQBcgs9XrR2kYvAQCcDgIWfMm8uXSpNYB7QhZYkK9G
>ZWwAnidEYuUd5hvaoiy/doqm7k51vuAf
>=dC1D
>-END PGP SIGNATURE-