RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
>> So henceforth, 3 will be license/SA and 4 will be subscription. No as customers prior to 8 Feb 06 can use version 4 if they have Declude EVA PRO, Junkmail PRO and Hijack licensed and remain with the purchase of service agreements. >> Will there be concurrent development for both versions or will future filtering enhancements be limited to version 4, requiring the subscription model to take advantage of them? There will be concurrent development for both versions. I am struggling to make this clearer than I already have so I will try again: A. Declude customers prior to 8 Feb 06 do NOT have to move to the Subscription but CAN remain with the Service Agreement. B. If you have have EVA PRO, Junkmail PRO and Hijack licensed you CAN run either version 3.0 or 4.0 C. There is NO major difference in functionality except that 4.0 runs as a single product with Declude EVA PRO, Junkmail PRO and Hijack. where as Version 3.0 still supports 3 individual products. D. Declude customers prior to 8 Feb 06 do NOT have to move to the subscription model. If you need further clarification I would suggest calling us and we will be happy to answer all your questions. PS. You will have to wait till Monday 'cause it's 7:30 am on a Sunday morning and I am still not taking calls at home :) David B www.declude.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 1:24 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Thanks for the info David. The answer can wait, but there is one point I would like clarified: > If you do NOT have JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack and choose not to upgrade > ... > then you remain with version 3 as version 4 is licensed for JM Pro & > EVA PRO & Hijack as I have explained in point 5. > > 5. With regards to Version 3.0 and 4.0 there is NO major difference in > functionality except that 4.0 runs as a single product with Declude > EVA PRO, Junkmail PRO and Hijack. Where as Version 3.0 still supports > 3 individual products. Dan --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude EVA www.declude.com] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude EVA www.declude.com] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
Hi David, What I was trying to get was an actual price matrix. For example, 1. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Pro? 2. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Standard? 3. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Lite? 4. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Pro? 5. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Standard? 6. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Lite? 7. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA Pro? 8. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA Standard? 9. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA Lite? 10. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro only? 11. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard only? 12. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite only? 13. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Pro only? 14. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Standard only? 15. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Lite only? This could be easily displayed as a 4x4 price matrix. Posting it here, or perhaps posting a link to where it's posted on your website, will save you a lot of phone calls and time. I think a lot of the confusion stems from calling the upcoming release version 4. If the functionality will always remain the same between 3 and 4, then calling it a bundled "service" that is licensed differently than the separately "purchased" products would be much more clear than calling it a separate version. If the functionality is going to change between 3 and 4, then we need to know when and what, and how it affects previous customers. I know you've stated there is no "major" difference now, but everyone is concerned not just about now, but about the future functionality, costs, and direction of the product. Darin. - Original Message - From: "David Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:29 PM Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Darin, If you have JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack you can choose if you want to run version 3 or version 4 in either case the SA applies as in point 2. 2. Existing Customers prior to 8 Feb 06 CAN continue using the Service Agreement model. This mean you purchase a Annual Service agreement to ensure support and having access to new releases of Declude for that year. If your Service Agreement lapses you are still able to run Declude you will just not have access to support or new releases. If you do NOT have JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack and choose not to upgrade ... then you remain with version 3 as version 4 is licensed for JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack as I have explained in point 5. 5. With regards to Version 3.0 and 4.0 there is NO major difference in functionality except that 4.0 runs as a single product with Declude EVA PRO, Junkmail PRO and Hijack. Where as Version 3.0 still supports 3 individual products. If you need further clarification I would suggest calling us and we will be happy to answer all your questions. PS. You will have to wait till Monday 'cuase it's 11:30 on a Saturday evening and I am not taking calls at home :) David B www.declude.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 10:55 PM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Ok, so what are the various prices? You're going to get asked this a lot. Why not post the answer on this forum and save everyone a lot of time? Also, does upgrade mean a previous customer is on SAs, but using v4? Or does that customer stay on v3? Darin. - Original Message - From: "David Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:55 PM Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 The price as based on a formula which is determined by what you currently have licensed and is therefore is not the same for everyone. ie. If you just have a license for JM lite you would pay more for an upgrade than someone who has JM PRO and EVA std. An upgrade means: Customers of Declude prior 8 Feb 06 can continue with Service Agreements see point 4. David B www.declude.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 3:24 PM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 HI David, Re: 6. What is the price for the upgrade? And does the upgrade mean we are on an annual subscription, or continue with service agreements? Darin. - Original Message - From: "David Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ; Sent: Saturday, F
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
I misspoke... switch SA for upgrade. Also, please answer the implicit questions at the end of the email as well. Thanks, Darin. - Original Message - From: "Barry Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Darin, The Service Agreement prices have not changed: JunkMail - $132.00 per year EVA - $132.00 per year HiJack - $45.00 per year Barry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:36 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Hi David, What I was trying to get was an actual price matrix. For example, 1. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Pro? 2. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Standard? 3. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Lite? 4. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Pro? 5. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Standard? 6. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Lite? 7. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA Pro? 8. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA Standard? 9. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA Lite? 10. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro only? 11. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard only? 12. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite only? 13. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Pro only? 14. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Standard only? 15. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Lite only? This could be easily displayed as a 4x4 price matrix. Posting it here, or perhaps posting a link to where it's posted on your website, will save you a lot of phone calls and time. I think a lot of the confusion stems from calling the upcoming release version 4. If the functionality will always remain the same between 3 and 4, then calling it a bundled "service" that is licensed differently than the separately "purchased" products would be much more clear than calling it a separate version. If the functionality is going to change between 3 and 4, then we need to know when and what, and how it affects previous customers. I know you've stated there is no "major" difference now, but everyone is concerned not just about now, but about the future functionality, costs, and direction of the product. Darin. - Original Message - From: "David Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:29 PM Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Darin, If you have JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack you can choose if you want to run version 3 or version 4 in either case the SA applies as in point 2. 2. Existing Customers prior to 8 Feb 06 CAN continue using the Service Agreement model. This mean you purchase a Annual Service agreement to ensure support and having access to new releases of Declude for that year. If your Service Agreement lapses you are still able to run Declude you will just not have access to support or new releases. If you do NOT have JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack and choose not to upgrade ... then you remain with version 3 as version 4 is licensed for JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack as I have explained in point 5. 5. With regards to Version 3.0 and 4.0 there is NO major difference in functionality except that 4.0 runs as a single product with Declude EVA PRO, Junkmail PRO and Hijack. Where as Version 3.0 still supports 3 individual products. If you need further clarification I would suggest calling us and we will be happy to answer all your questions. PS. You will have to wait till Monday 'cuase it's 11:30 on a Saturday evening and I am not taking calls at home :) David B www.declude.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 10:55 PM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Ok, so what are the various prices? You're going to get asked this a lot. Why not post the answer on this forum and save everyone a lot of time? Also, does upgrade mean a previous customer is on SAs, but using v4? Or does that customer stay on v3? Darin. - Original Message - From: "David Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:55 PM Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 The price as based on a formula which is determined by what you currently have licensed and is therefore is not the same for everyone. ie. If you just have a license for JM lite you would pay more for an
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
Darin, The Service Agreement prices have not changed: JunkMail - $132.00 per year EVA - $132.00 per year HiJack - $45.00 per year Barry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:36 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Hi David, What I was trying to get was an actual price matrix. For example, 1. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Pro? 2. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Standard? 3. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Lite? 4. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Pro? 5. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Standard? 6. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Lite? 7. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA Pro? 8. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA Standard? 9. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA Lite? 10. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro only? 11. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard only? 12. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite only? 13. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Pro only? 14. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Standard only? 15. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Lite only? This could be easily displayed as a 4x4 price matrix. Posting it here, or perhaps posting a link to where it's posted on your website, will save you a lot of phone calls and time. I think a lot of the confusion stems from calling the upcoming release version 4. If the functionality will always remain the same between 3 and 4, then calling it a bundled "service" that is licensed differently than the separately "purchased" products would be much more clear than calling it a separate version. If the functionality is going to change between 3 and 4, then we need to know when and what, and how it affects previous customers. I know you've stated there is no "major" difference now, but everyone is concerned not just about now, but about the future functionality, costs, and direction of the product. Darin. - Original Message - From: "David Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:29 PM Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Darin, If you have JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack you can choose if you want to run version 3 or version 4 in either case the SA applies as in point 2. 2. Existing Customers prior to 8 Feb 06 CAN continue using the Service Agreement model. This mean you purchase a Annual Service agreement to ensure support and having access to new releases of Declude for that year. If your Service Agreement lapses you are still able to run Declude you will just not have access to support or new releases. If you do NOT have JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack and choose not to upgrade ... then you remain with version 3 as version 4 is licensed for JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack as I have explained in point 5. 5. With regards to Version 3.0 and 4.0 there is NO major difference in functionality except that 4.0 runs as a single product with Declude EVA PRO, Junkmail PRO and Hijack. Where as Version 3.0 still supports 3 individual products. If you need further clarification I would suggest calling us and we will be happy to answer all your questions. PS. You will have to wait till Monday 'cuase it's 11:30 on a Saturday evening and I am not taking calls at home :) David B www.declude.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 10:55 PM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Ok, so what are the various prices? You're going to get asked this a lot. Why not post the answer on this forum and save everyone a lot of time? Also, does upgrade mean a previous customer is on SAs, but using v4? Or does that customer stay on v3? Darin. - Original Message - From: "David Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:55 PM Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 The price as based on a formula which is determined by what you currently have licensed and is therefore is not the same for everyone. ie. If you just have a license for JM lite you would pay more for an upgrade than someone who has JM PRO and EVA std. An upgrade means: Customers of Declude prior 8 Feb 06 can continue with Service Agreements see point 4. David B www.declude.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Saturday, Fe
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
Each customer has a price on their host record which reflects their individual special price. This is confidential for each customer and I will not be posting details on a public forum. We are currently developing some documentation that should be published next week outlining changes and future strategy. As soon as this is available we will inform our customers. Barry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:03 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 I misspoke... switch SA for upgrade. Also, please answer the implicit questions at the end of the email as well. Thanks, Darin. - Original Message - From: "Barry Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Darin, The Service Agreement prices have not changed: JunkMail - $132.00 per year EVA - $132.00 per year HiJack - $45.00 per year Barry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:36 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Hi David, What I was trying to get was an actual price matrix. For example, 1. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Pro? 2. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Standard? 3. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Lite? 4. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Pro? 5. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Standard? 6. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Lite? 7. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA Pro? 8. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA Standard? 9. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA Lite? 10. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro only? 11. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard only? 12. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite only? 13. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Pro only? 14. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Standard only? 15. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Lite only? This could be easily displayed as a 4x4 price matrix. Posting it here, or perhaps posting a link to where it's posted on your website, will save you a lot of phone calls and time. I think a lot of the confusion stems from calling the upcoming release version 4. If the functionality will always remain the same between 3 and 4, then calling it a bundled "service" that is licensed differently than the separately "purchased" products would be much more clear than calling it a separate version. If the functionality is going to change between 3 and 4, then we need to know when and what, and how it affects previous customers. I know you've stated there is no "major" difference now, but everyone is concerned not just about now, but about the future functionality, costs, and direction of the product. Darin. - Original Message - From: "David Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:29 PM Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Darin, If you have JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack you can choose if you want to run version 3 or version 4 in either case the SA applies as in point 2. 2. Existing Customers prior to 8 Feb 06 CAN continue using the Service Agreement model. This mean you purchase a Annual Service agreement to ensure support and having access to new releases of Declude for that year. If your Service Agreement lapses you are still able to run Declude you will just not have access to support or new releases. If you do NOT have JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack and choose not to upgrade ... then you remain with version 3 as version 4 is licensed for JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack as I have explained in point 5. 5. With regards to Version 3.0 and 4.0 there is NO major difference in functionality except that 4.0 runs as a single product with Declude EVA PRO, Junkmail PRO and Hijack. Where as Version 3.0 still supports 3 individual products. If you need further clarification I would suggest calling us and we will be happy to answer all your questions. PS. You will have to wait till Monday 'cuase it's 11:30 on a Saturday evening and I am not taking calls at home :) David B www.declude.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 10:55 PM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Ok, so what are the various price
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
Thank you, Barry. I look forward to reading the details next week. In the meantime, if you could send me the pricing info, I would appreciate it. Darin. - Original Message - From: "Barry Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:22 AM Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Each customer has a price on their host record which reflects their individual special price. This is confidential for each customer and I will not be posting details on a public forum. We are currently developing some documentation that should be published next week outlining changes and future strategy. As soon as this is available we will inform our customers. Barry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:03 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 I misspoke... switch SA for upgrade. Also, please answer the implicit questions at the end of the email as well. Thanks, Darin. - Original Message - From: "Barry Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Darin, The Service Agreement prices have not changed: JunkMail - $132.00 per year EVA - $132.00 per year HiJack - $45.00 per year Barry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:36 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Hi David, What I was trying to get was an actual price matrix. For example, 1. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Pro? 2. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Standard? 3. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Lite? 4. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Pro? 5. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Standard? 6. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Lite? 7. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA Pro? 8. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA Standard? 9. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA Lite? 10. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro only? 11. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard only? 12. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite only? 13. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Pro only? 14. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Standard only? 15. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Lite only? This could be easily displayed as a 4x4 price matrix. Posting it here, or perhaps posting a link to where it's posted on your website, will save you a lot of phone calls and time. I think a lot of the confusion stems from calling the upcoming release version 4. If the functionality will always remain the same between 3 and 4, then calling it a bundled "service" that is licensed differently than the separately "purchased" products would be much more clear than calling it a separate version. If the functionality is going to change between 3 and 4, then we need to know when and what, and how it affects previous customers. I know you've stated there is no "major" difference now, but everyone is concerned not just about now, but about the future functionality, costs, and direction of the product. Darin. - Original Message - From: "David Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:29 PM Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Darin, If you have JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack you can choose if you want to run version 3 or version 4 in either case the SA applies as in point 2. 2. Existing Customers prior to 8 Feb 06 CAN continue using the Service Agreement model. This mean you purchase a Annual Service agreement to ensure support and having access to new releases of Declude for that year. If your Service Agreement lapses you are still able to run Declude you will just not have access to support or new releases. If you do NOT have JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack and choose not to upgrade ... then you remain with version 3 as version 4 is licensed for JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack as I have explained in point 5. 5. With regards to Version 3.0 and 4.0 there is NO major difference in functionality except that 4.0 runs as a single product with Declude EVA PRO, Junkmail PRO and Hijack. Where as Version 3.0 still supports 3 individual products. If you need further clarification I would suggest calling us and we will be happy to answer all your questions. PS. You will have to wait till Monday 'cuase it's 11:30 on a Saturday evenin
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
Where do I find this information. I logged on the your site and don't see any on the "my account" page. I realize it must be obvious to you but it is not to me. Can you please let me know where this information is? Thank you Harry Vanderzand inTown Internet & Computer Services 519-741-1222 > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Simpson > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:22 AM > To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com > Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 > > Each customer has a price on their host record which reflects > their individual special price. This is confidential for each > customer and I will not be posting details on a public forum. > > We are currently developing some documentation that should be > published next week outlining changes and future strategy. As > soon as this is available we will inform our customers. > > Barry > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin Cox > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:03 AM > To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com > Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 > > I misspoke... switch SA for upgrade. Also, please answer the > implicit questions at the end of the email as well. > > Thanks, > > Darin. > > > - Original Message - > From: "Barry Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:54 AM > Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 > > > Darin, > > The Service Agreement prices have not changed: > > JunkMail - $132.00 per year > EVA - $132.00 per year > HiJack - $45.00 per year > > Barry > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin Cox > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:36 AM > To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com > Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 > > Hi David, > > What I was trying to get was an actual price matrix. For example, > > 1. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > JM Pro and EVA > Pro? > 2. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > JM Pro and EVA > Standard? > 3. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > JM Pro and EVA > Lite? > 4. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > JM Standard and > EVA Pro? > 5. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > JM Standard and > EVA Standard? > 6. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > JM Standard and > EVA Lite? > 7. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > JM Lite and EVA > Pro? > 8. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > JM Lite and EVA > Standard? > 9. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > JM Lite and EVA > Lite? > 10. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > JM Pro only? > 11. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > JM Standard > only? > 12. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > JM Lite only? > 13. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > EVA Pro only? > 14. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > EVA Standard > only? > 15. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > EVA Lite only? > > This could be easily displayed as a 4x4 price matrix. > Posting it here, or > perhaps posting a link to where it's posted on your website, > will save you a > lot of phone calls and time. > > I think a lot of the confusion stems from calling the upcoming release > version 4. If the functionality will always remain the same > between 3 and > 4, then calling it a bundled "service" that is licensed > differently than the > separately "purchased" products would be much more clear than > calling it a > separate version. If the functionality is going to change > between 3 and 4, > then we need to know when and what, and how it affects > previous customers. > I know you've stated there is no "major" difference now, but > everyone is > concerned not just about now, but about the future > functionality, costs, and > direction of the product. > > Darin. > > > - Original Message - > From: "David Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:29 PM > Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 > > > Darin, > > If you have JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack you can choose if you > want to run > version 3 or version 4 in either case the SA applies as in point 2. > > 2. Existing Customers prior to 8 Feb 06 CAN continue using the Service > Agreement model. This mean you purchase a Annual Service > agreement to ensure > support and having access to new releases of Declude for that > year. If your > Service Agreement lapses you are still able to run Declude > you will just not > have access to support or new releases. > > If you do NOT have JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack and choose not > to upgrade ...
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
Saturday, February 11, 2006, 9:47:07 AM, David Barker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: DB> [Snip] DB> 5. With regards to Version 3.0 and 4.0 there is NO major difference in DB> functionality except that 4.0 runs as a single product with Declude EVA PRO, DB> Junkmail PRO and Hijack. Where as Version 3.0 still supports 3 individual DB> products. DB> [Snip] DB> 7. I am pulling together some additional release notes on a comparison DB> between version version 3.0 and 4.0 which I hope to have available next DB> week. DB> David B DB> www.declude.com DB> [Snip] Items 5 & 7 are contradictory, to the extent that no comparison, as promised in 7, would be needed, if the only difference was, as quoted in 5. Don Brown - Dallas, Texas USA Internet Concepts, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.inetconcepts.net (972) 788-2364Fax: (972) 788-5049 --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude EVA www.declude.com] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.Virus] [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
Let me quote myself on point 5. "EXCEPT that 4.0 runs as a single product with Declude EVA PRO, Junkmail PRO and Hijack. Where as Version 3.0 still supports 3 individual products." As to NO major differences, there are NO major differences in functionality but rather minor differences which have to do with integration into SmarterMail 3.0 which makes it a little easier for New Customers which I will explain in greater detail with the notes I promised in point 7, but again these differences do NOT effect existing customers. David B www.declude.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Brown Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 11:23 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com; Declude.Virus@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Saturday, February 11, 2006, 9:47:07 AM, David Barker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: DB> [Snip] DB> 5. With regards to Version 3.0 and 4.0 there is NO major difference DB> in functionality except that 4.0 runs as a single product with DB> Declude EVA PRO, Junkmail PRO and Hijack. Where as Version 3.0 still DB> supports 3 individual products. DB> [Snip] DB> 7. I am pulling together some additional release notes on a DB> comparison between version version 3.0 and 4.0 which I hope to have DB> available next week. DB> David B DB> www.declude.com DB> [Snip] Items 5 & 7 are contradictory, to the extent that no comparison, as promised in 7, would be needed, if the only difference was, as quoted in 5. Don Brown - Dallas, Texas USA Internet Concepts, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.inetconcepts.net (972) 788-2364Fax: (972) 788-5049 --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude EVA www.declude.com] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude EVA www.declude.com] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.Virus] [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
I think what is missing is that if you are a previous customer you do not run version 4 in Subscription mode. You run it in maintnenace mode as Declude issues what they are calling "Declude Imail Perpetual License". So it seems ther a re two licensing modes in v4.x 1) "Declude Imail Perpetual License" .This was a cut and paste from our Declued customer login. 2) Subscription Kevin Bilbee > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Barker > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 8:38 AM > To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com; Declude.Virus@declude.com > Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 > > > Let me quote myself on point 5. > > "EXCEPT that 4.0 runs as a single product with Declude EVA > PRO, Junkmail PRO and Hijack. Where as Version 3.0 still > supports 3 individual products." > > As to NO major differences, there are NO major differences in > functionality but rather minor differences which have to do > with integration into SmarterMail 3.0 which makes it a little > easier for New Customers which I will explain in greater > detail with the notes I promised in point 7, but again these > differences do NOT effect existing customers. > > David B > www.declude.com > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Brown > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 11:23 AM > To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com; Declude.Virus@declude.com > Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 > > Saturday, February 11, 2006, 9:47:07 AM, David Barker > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > DB> [Snip] > > DB> 5. With regards to Version 3.0 and 4.0 there is NO major > difference > DB> in functionality except that 4.0 runs as a single product with > DB> Declude EVA PRO, Junkmail PRO and Hijack. Where as > Version 3.0 still > DB> supports 3 individual products. > > DB> [Snip] > > DB> 7. I am pulling together some additional release notes on a > DB> comparison between version version 3.0 and 4.0 which I > hope to have > DB> available next week. > > DB> David B > DB> www.declude.com > DB> [Snip] > > Items 5 & 7 are contradictory, to the extent that no > comparison, as promised in 7, would be needed, if the only > difference was, as quoted in 5. > > > > Don Brown - Dallas, Texas USA Internet Concepts, Inc. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.inetconcepts.net > (972) 788-2364Fax: (972) 788-5049 > > > --- > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude EVA www.declude.com] > > --- > This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To > unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and > type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found > at http://www.mail-archive.com. > > > --- > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude EVA www.declude.com] > > --- > This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To > unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and > type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be > found at http://www.mail-archive.com. > --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude EVA www.declude.com] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
Look just under you licensing information. If you already own the Junkmail pro, EVA Pro, and Hijak this information, I would gusee, will not be there. Kevin Bilbee > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Harry Vanderzand > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 8:19 AM > To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com > Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 > > > Where do I find this information. > > I logged on the your site and don't see any on the "my account" page. > > I realize it must be obvious to you but it is not to me. > > Can you please let me know where this information is? > > Thank you > > Harry Vanderzand > inTown Internet & Computer Services > 519-741-1222 > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Barry Simpson > > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:22 AM > > To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com > > Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 > > > > Each customer has a price on their host record which reflects > > their individual special price. This is confidential for each > > customer and I will not be posting details on a public forum. > > > > We are currently developing some documentation that should be > > published next week outlining changes and future strategy. As > > soon as this is available we will inform our customers. > > > > Barry > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin Cox > > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:03 AM > > To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com > > Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 > > > > I misspoke... switch SA for upgrade. Also, please answer the > > implicit questions at the end of the email as well. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Darin. > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Barry Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:54 AM > > Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 > > > > > > Darin, > > > > The Service Agreement prices have not changed: > > > > JunkMail - $132.00 per year > > EVA - $132.00 per year > > HiJack - $45.00 per year > > > > Barry > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin Cox > > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:36 AM > > To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com > > Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 > > > > Hi David, > > > > What I was trying to get was an actual price matrix. For example, > > > > 1. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > > JM Pro and EVA > > Pro? > > 2. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > > JM Pro and EVA > > Standard? > > 3. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > > JM Pro and EVA > > Lite? > > 4. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > > JM Standard and > > EVA Pro? > > 5. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > > JM Standard and > > EVA Standard? > > 6. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > > JM Standard and > > EVA Lite? > > 7. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > > JM Lite and EVA > > Pro? > > 8. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > > JM Lite and EVA > > Standard? > > 9. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > > JM Lite and EVA > > Lite? > > 10. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > > JM Pro only? > > 11. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > > JM Standard > > only? > > 12. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > > JM Lite only? > > 13. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > > EVA Pro only? > > 14. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > > EVA Standard > > only? > > 15. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has > > EVA Lite only? > > > > This could be easily displayed as a 4x4 price matrix. > > Posting it here, or > > perhaps posting a link to where it's posted on your website, > > will save you a > > lot of phone calls and time. > > > > I think a lot of the confusion stems from calling the > upcoming release > > version 4. If the functionality will always remain the > same between 3 > > and 4, then calling it a bundled "service" that is licensed > > differently than the > > separately "purchased" products would be much more clear than > > calling it a > > separate version. If the functionality is going to change > > between 3 and 4, > > then we need to know when and what, and how it affects > > previous customers. > > I know you've stated there is no "major" difference now, but > > everyone is > > concerned not just about now, but about the future > > functionality, costs, and > > direction of the product. > > > > Darin. > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "David Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
Barry, Before you publish your future strategy, you should take a lot more time to consider the willingness of your customers to come along. I have never heard of a similar piece of software that expires in this way, and effectively forces a customer to renew their license. The only things that are remotely close are Microsoft products which are sold a different way for volume licensing, but they offer these subscriptions at a price that is just a fraction of the full product price, they are generally considered to be discounted by the companies purchasing them, and the choice is optional to choose the subscription or the standard purchase. That is clearly not the case here. Declude is not a service, it's a piece of software, and I expect to pay for software the way that software is paid for. I will never pay an annual license to use such a piece of software. Never. Especially when that piece of software requires me to pay for multiple other products in order to have acceptable protection, and work many long hours in developing plug-ins to enhance functionality that doesn't exist in the product itself. The strength of Declude is it's flexibility as a framework, but not as a solution in itself. There is a major disconnect between your perception of the market, and what I an others on this end see. While this model might seem appealing to you, it is grossly uncompetitive, and it comes at an incredibly inopportune time. We as a community have been mostly understanding of the disruption associated with the change of ownership, but up to this point there has been only small advancements in the product that benefit us. With the exception of one piece of added functionality, I could still be using the same release that I was using two years ago when you took over the company. Whether or not it is apparent to you, it is very apparent to the majority of your customers that I communicate with that the product is lagging, and not it is being priced uncompetitively on top of that. People who are one day faced with the prospect of renewing a service agreement and feeling angry over not having used a single release in the previous year are now being faced with a choice between a dead-end product (non-annually licensed software), and upgrading to an annual license at a greatly increased price. The issues with development and price on their own aren't my only concerns. Since I see this as grossly uncompetitive, I also worry about whether or not Declude can be a going concern under these conditions, and a large part of my own business has been built on top of the functionality that the product offers. I don't perceive the possibility of success in this model, and I likewise don't believe that I can rely on Declude going forward as long as this is the model that you choose. As a business person, I must protect my own interests and find a suitable solution for my needs. It's not yet too late to rethink your licensing and other plans going forward, but I fear that you won't get very far before the damage can't be undone. Matt Barry Simpson wrote: Each customer has a price on their host record which reflects their individual special price. This is confidential for each customer and I will not be posting details on a public forum. We are currently developing some documentation that should be published next week outlining changes and future strategy. As soon as this is available we will inform our customers. Barry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:03 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 I misspoke... switch SA for upgrade. Also, please answer the implicit questions at the end of the email as well. Thanks, Darin. - Original Message - From: "Barry Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Darin, The Service Agreement prices have not changed: JunkMail - $132.00 per year EVA - $132.00 per year HiJack - $45.00 per year Barry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:36 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Hi David, What I was trying to get was an actual price matrix. For example, 1. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Pro? 2. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Standard? 3. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA Lite? 4. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Pro? 5. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Standard? 6. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and EVA Lite? 7. What is the price
Re: [Declude.Virus] [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
Hi Kevin, Actually, from what I've heard they haven't decided whether or not previous customers would "not run version 4 in Subscription mode". Barry just told me this morning that they have not decided exactly how they will handle licensing once v3 is no longer being maintained. However, I agree that that would be a preferred mean of handling the situation. Darin. - Original Message - From: "Kevin Bilbee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:06 PM Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 I think what is missing is that if you are a previous customer you do not run version 4 in Subscription mode. You run it in maintnenace mode as Declude issues what they are calling "Declude Imail Perpetual License". So it seems ther a re two licensing modes in v4.x 1) "Declude Imail Perpetual License" .This was a cut and paste from our Declued customer login. 2) Subscription Kevin Bilbee > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Barker > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 8:38 AM > To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com; Declude.Virus@declude.com > Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 > > > Let me quote myself on point 5. > > "EXCEPT that 4.0 runs as a single product with Declude EVA > PRO, Junkmail PRO and Hijack. Where as Version 3.0 still > supports 3 individual products." > > As to NO major differences, there are NO major differences in > functionality but rather minor differences which have to do > with integration into SmarterMail 3.0 which makes it a little > easier for New Customers which I will explain in greater > detail with the notes I promised in point 7, but again these > differences do NOT effect existing customers. > > David B > www.declude.com > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Brown > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 11:23 AM > To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com; Declude.Virus@declude.com > Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 > > Saturday, February 11, 2006, 9:47:07 AM, David Barker > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > DB> [Snip] > > DB> 5. With regards to Version 3.0 and 4.0 there is NO major > difference > DB> in functionality except that 4.0 runs as a single product with > DB> Declude EVA PRO, Junkmail PRO and Hijack. Where as > Version 3.0 still > DB> supports 3 individual products. > > DB> [Snip] > > DB> 7. I am pulling together some additional release notes on a > DB> comparison between version version 3.0 and 4.0 which I > hope to have > DB> available next week. > > DB> David B > DB> www.declude.com > DB> [Snip] > > Items 5 & 7 are contradictory, to the extent that no > comparison, as promised in 7, would be needed, if the only > difference was, as quoted in 5. > > > > Don Brown - Dallas, Texas USA Internet Concepts, Inc. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.inetconcepts.net > (972) 788-2364Fax: (972) 788-5049 > > > --- > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude EVA www.declude.com] > > --- > This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To > unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and > type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found > at http://www.mail-archive.com. > > > --- > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude EVA www.declude.com] > > --- > This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To > unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and > type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be > found at http://www.mail-archive.com. > --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude EVA www.declude.com] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude EVA www.declude.com] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] declude 4 changes ... worried...
Lots . In addtion to our hosting services, we also serve as an outsourcing provider to others. If we decide to move, we'll either find another comparable solution that allows us to migrate our established weighting rules or build our own solution. Darin. - Original Message - From: Robert E. Spivack To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 2:06 AM Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] declude 4 changes ... worried... How many user mailboxes do you have? The pricing of some outsourced solutions which have a per mailbox fee might actually be lower now that Declude is also an annual required payment. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin CoxSent: Friday, February 10, 2006 8:49 AMTo: Declude.JunkMail@declude.comSubject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] declude 4 changes ... worried... Yep. at that price it's time to move to something else or build our own system. Declude, come back with something reasonable or you'll lose customers like IMail did. Darin. - Original Message - From: Scott Fisher To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:43 AM Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] declude 4 changes ... worried... So I thought I'd go web browsing on the Declude site and see what is up with Declude 4. I'm a Virus Pro and Junkmail Pro licensee on Imail. Going forward Declude 4 is the entire suite (Virus Pro, Junkmail Pro and Hijaak). Kevin's post mentions that Declude 3 will be supported. Although long term how long will they support two different code sets? I'd say my long-term gut feeling isn't good. Next I look through the purchase page. Declude 4 for Imail is now only available for a $1450 Annual Subscription. Ouch. The last time I paid maintenance for Declude it was $265. That's a bump. (Essentially having only one domain here), That is mighty pricey especially compared to the Declude for Smartmail 1 domain price of $199. Don't get me wrong, I really like the Declude prodcut. It's so flexible that you can do many different things... I just can't see how smaller entities like me are going to positively affected by these changes. -Scott FisherDirector of ITFarm Progress Companies191 S Gary AveCarol Stream, IL 60188630-462-2323 This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. Although Farm Progress Companies has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
Totally agree with you, Matt. If it is to be sold as a service, the price should be significantly lower than an outright purchase, But I also agree that I would most likely not purchase it that way. We've stuck with 1.82 due to the problems experienced with the v2 and v3 releases that added little new functionality. For a similar reason we're still running a very stable IMail 8.05 though we have an IMail SA that entitles us to 2006. We hope IMail 2006 will stabilize within the next month or so to upgrade, and I assume would then be forced to install Declude v3 for compatibility reasons. What I find most disturbing in the past year is the lack of forethought among the companies involved to consider their customers' anticipated response, and have answers ready ahead of time. There seems to have been such a rush that companies have not taken the time to generate complete position statements/FAQs. Instead, incomplete and sometimes seemingly contradictory statements have been made, leading to panic among the user communities. Everyone should take notice and plan releases/statements/announcements more thoroughly. It would greatly reduce confusion, save a tremendous amount of time on the part of the both company personnel and end users, and would make for a much more positive reception to such announcements. Darin. - Original Message - From: Matt To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Barry,Before you publish your future strategy, you should take a lot more time to consider the willingness of your customers to come along. I have never heard of a similar piece of software that expires in this way, and effectively forces a customer to renew their license. The only things that are remotely close are Microsoft products which are sold a different way for volume licensing, but they offer these subscriptions at a price that is just a fraction of the full product price, they are generally considered to be discounted by the companies purchasing them, and the choice is optional to choose the subscription or the standard purchase. That is clearly not the case here.Declude is not a service, it's a piece of software, and I expect to pay for software the way that software is paid for. I will never pay an annual license to use such a piece of software. Never. Especially when that piece of software requires me to pay for multiple other products in order to have acceptable protection, and work many long hours in developing plug-ins to enhance functionality that doesn't exist in the product itself. The strength of Declude is it's flexibility as a framework, but not as a solution in itself. There is a major disconnect between your perception of the market, and what I an others on this end see.While this model might seem appealing to you, it is grossly uncompetitive, and it comes at an incredibly inopportune time. We as a community have been mostly understanding of the disruption associated with the change of ownership, but up to this point there has been only small advancements in the product that benefit us. With the exception of one piece of added functionality, I could still be using the same release that I was using two years ago when you took over the company. Whether or not it is apparent to you, it is very apparent to the majority of your customers that I communicate with that the product is lagging, and not it is being priced uncompetitively on top of that. People who are one day faced with the prospect of renewing a service agreement and feeling angry over not having used a single release in the previous year are now being faced with a choice between a dead-end product (non-annually licensed software), and upgrading to an annual license at a greatly increased price.The issues with development and price on their own aren't my only concerns. Since I see this as grossly uncompetitive, I also worry about whether or not Declude can be a going concern under these conditions, and a large part of my own business has been built on top of the functionality that the product offers. I don't perceive the possibility of success in this model, and I likewise don't believe that I can rely on Declude going forward as long as this is the model that you choose. As a business person, I must protect my own interests and find a suitable solution for my needs.It's not yet too late to rethink your licensing and other plans going forward, but I fear that you won't get very far before the damage can't be undone.MattBarry Simpson wrote: Each customer has a price on their host record which reflects their individual special price. This is confidential for each customer and I will not be posting details on a public forum. We are currently developing some documentation that should be published next week outlining changes and future strategy. As soon as this is avai
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
Title: Message Very well said, Matt. I mentioned in my earlier post about this as well. The product has not advanced to counter weight the costs; nor is there a truly working product "release" for 100% of the users. Time spent tweaking and paying for 3rd party plug-ins is expensive. For us, we've been considering going back to open source. We are already spending time on tweaking Declude and paying for it; might as well spend that time tweaking a free product. Declude is a maintenance nightmare when you have to train someone to handle what is already in place. Their documentation is not update with their product. It's a lot of time on the end user end. -Erik -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MattSent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:10 PMTo: Declude.JunkMail@declude.comSubject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0Barry,Before you publish your future strategy, you should take a lot more time to consider the willingness of your customers to come along. I have never heard of a similar piece of software that expires in this way, and effectively forces a customer to renew their license. The only things that are remotely close are Microsoft products which are sold a different way for volume licensing, but they offer these subscriptions at a price that is just a fraction of the full product price, they are generally considered to be discounted by the companies purchasing them, and the choice is optional to choose the subscription or the standard purchase. That is clearly not the case here.Declude is not a service, it's a piece of software, and I expect to pay for software the way that software is paid for. I will never pay an annual license to use such a piece of software. Never. Especially when that piece of software requires me to pay for multiple other products in order to have acceptable protection, and work many long hours in developing plug-ins to enhance functionality that doesn't exist in the product itself. The strength of Declude is it's flexibility as a framework, but not as a solution in itself. There is a major disconnect between your perception of the market, and what I an others on this end see.While this model might seem appealing to you, it is grossly uncompetitive, and it comes at an incredibly inopportune time. We as a community have been mostly understanding of the disruption associated with the change of ownership, but up to this point there has been only small advancements in the product that benefit us. With the exception of one piece of added functionality, I could still be using the same release that I was using two years ago when you took over the company. Whether or not it is apparent to you, it is very apparent to the majority of your customers that I communicate with that the product is lagging, and not it is being priced uncompetitively on top of that. People who are one day faced with the prospect of renewing a service agreement and feeling angry over not having used a single release in the previous year are now being faced with a choice between a dead-end product (non-annually licensed software), and upgrading to an annual license at a greatly increased price.The issues with development and price on their own aren't my only concerns. Since I see this as grossly uncompetitive, I also worry about whether or not Declude can be a going concern under these conditions, and a large part of my own business has been built on top of the functionality that the product offers. I don't perceive the possibility of success in this model, and I likewise don't believe that I can rely on Declude going forward as long as this is the model that you choose. As a business person, I must protect my own interests and find a suitable solution for my needs.It's not yet too late to rethink your licensing and other plans going forward, but I fear that you won't get very far before the damage can't be undone.MattBarry Simpson wrote: Each customer has a price on their host record which reflects their individual special price. This is confidential for each customer and I will not be posting details on a public forum. We are currently developing some documentation that should be published next week outlining changes and future strategy. As soon as this is available we will inform our customers. Barry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:03 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 I misspoke... switch SA for upgrade. Also, please answer the implicit questions at the end of the email as well. Thanks, Darin. - Original Message - From: "Barry Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:54 AM
[Declude.JunkMail]
Organization:www.rleeheath.com X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Darin Cox Subject: Re[2]: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-RBL-Warning: TESTS-FAILED: (weight 0) Whitelisted X-RBL-Warning: RDNS-ROUTE: 70.59.254.180 - port4.techknow.com - [IANA Reserved]->destination X-RBL-Warning: REAL-MAILFROM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-RBL-Warning: REAL-MAILTO: (1) Declude.JunkMail@declude.com X-ActivatorMail: Spam-Weight: 0 - Da218e1c601ba6de9.SMD arrival: 14:01:36 X-ActivatorMail: Report spammers to [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-ActivatorMail: Multi-Scanned for viruses and spam by www.activatormail.com X-ActivatorMail: Passed McAfee>F-Protect>AVG>ClamAV>BitDefender antivirus multiscans. X-ActivatorMail: ActivatorMail(tm) ver.01032-1.82 intelligent email security We are running 1.82 with Imail 8.15 and everything runs like a rock. We = have seen nothing giving us a significant reason to upgrade and a host of pro= blems or serious complications in subsequent versions. In this light, it seems= the appropriate Declude marketing response should be quite the opposite. This is especially disappointing to me. I suggested such a solution orig= inally just prior to the establishment of Declude. The undeniable fact is that = ever since Scott sold the business there has been very little innovation, a h= ost of problems, and now to expect users to pay more for all this is quite the = surprise for all of us here. I have seen softwares converted to services like this and the vast major= ity have been miserable failures. We were apprehensive about upgrading becau= se of so many reported problems. Now this pretty much guarantees we will not u= pgrade at all. -- Roger Heath mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.rleeheath.com";>www.rleeheath.com= - Copy of Original Message(s): - > Totally agree with you, Matt. If it is to be s= old as a service, the price should be significantly lower than an outright = purchase, But I also agree that I would most likely not purchase it that wa= y. We've stuck with 1.82 due to the problems experience= d with the v2 and v3 releases that added little new functionality. Fo= r a similar reason we're still running a very stable IMail 8.05 though we h= ave an IMail SA that entitles us to 2006. We hope IMail 2006 will sta= bilize within the next month or so to upgrade, and I assume would then be f= orced to install Declude v3 for compatibility reasons. What I find most disturbing in the past year is the = lack of forethought among the companies involved to consider their customer= s' anticipated response, and have answers ready ahead of time. There = seems to have been such a rush that companies have not taken the time to ge= nerate complete position statements/FAQs. Instead, incomplete and som= etimes seemingly contradictory statements have been made, leading to panic = among the user communities. Everyone should take notice and plan rele= ases/statements/announcements
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
You guys go on and on. Have you actually talked to Declude? There are no changes for you if you do not want them. And Moving to V4 is easy. You must have a lot of time to waste, fret and worry. If you would only communicate with them. I realize there have been misunderstandings and some mail was not received by many. Give them a break. All your demand are not appropriate on this list. YI am amazed with the time you spend on conjecture and assumptions that just do not have any foundation. I have discussed and clarified things with Declude and am totally satisfied. The sky is not falling! Harry Vanderzand inTown Internet & Computer Services 519-741-1222 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MattSent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:10 PMTo: Declude.JunkMail@declude.comSubject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Barry,Before you publish your future strategy, you should take a lot more time to consider the willingness of your customers to come along. I have never heard of a similar piece of software that expires in this way, and effectively forces a customer to renew their license. The only things that are remotely close are Microsoft products which are sold a different way for volume licensing, but they offer these subscriptions at a price that is just a fraction of the full product price, they are generally considered to be discounted by the companies purchasing them, and the choice is optional to choose the subscription or the standard purchase. That is clearly not the case here.Declude is not a service, it's a piece of software, and I expect to pay for software the way that software is paid for. I will never pay an annual license to use such a piece of software. Never. Especially when that piece of software requires me to pay for multiple other products in order to have acceptable protection, and work many long hours in developing plug-ins to enhance functionality that doesn't exist in the product itself. The strength of Declude is it's flexibility as a framework, but not as a solution in itself. There is a major disconnect between your perception of the market, and what I an others on this end see.While this model might seem appealing to you, it is grossly uncompetitive, and it comes at an incredibly inopportune time. We as a community have been mostly understanding of the disruption associated with the change of ownership, but up to this point there has been only small advancements in the product that benefit us. With the exception of one piece of added functionality, I could still be using the same release that I was using two years ago when you took over the company. Whether or not it is apparent to you, it is very apparent to the majority of your customers that I communicate with that the product is lagging, and not it is being priced uncompetitively on top of that. People who are one day faced with the prospect of renewing a service agreement and feeling angry over not having used a single release in the previous year are now being faced with a choice between a dead-end product (non-annually licensed software), and upgrading to an annual license at a greatly increased price.The issues with development and price on their own aren't my only concerns. Since I see this as grossly uncompetitive, I also worry about whether or not Declude can be a going concern under these conditions, and a large part of my own business has been built on top of the functionality that the product offers. I don't perceive the possibility of success in this model, and I likewise don't believe that I can rely on Declude going forward as long as this is the model that you choose. As a business person, I must protect my own interests and find a suitable solution for my needs.It's not yet too late to rethink your licensing and other plans going forward, but I fear that you won't get very far before the damage can't be undone.MattBarry Simpson wrote: Each customer has a price on their host record which reflects their individual special price. This is confidential for each customer and I will not be posting details on a public forum. We are currently developing some documentation that should be published next week outlining changes and future strategy. As soon as this is available we will inform our customers. Barry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:03 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 I misspoke... switch SA for upgrade. Also, please answer the implicit questions at the end of the email as well. Thanks, Darin. - Original Message - From: "Barry Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: RE: [Decl
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
I have been exchanging direct emails with Declude and I am concerned. Matt is right on target. Bear in mind that Matt and all of rest of us as well are trying to help Declude's management understand a common viewpoint in the user community. While we may come off as ready to jump ship at times, much of that is to drive the point home. If management listens and learns, then these situations can easily be avoided in the future. As to the worrying part, all of us have budgets that we have to adhere to. If costs suddenly rise in one area, that can mean other budgets have to be cut. As good business people, we have to understand our vendors future strategies as well in order to anticipate changes in direction that can impact our operations. Statements such as "we will take care of our customers" sound good, but have no facts or guarantees in them that we can hinge our future plans on. We need clearly defined facts and guarantees from our vendors in order to keep our businesses running smoothly. That said, my main concern has been settled since Barry posted a reply to Kevin on the list that customers who upgrade from V3 to v4 will be able to continue purchasing SAs (currently $134 each for Junkmail EVA), and will not have their software licenses expire when SAs expire. I was understandably concerned when I asked the question in a previous post and received an "I don't know" response. Darin. - Original Message - From: Harry Vanderzand To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 4:15 PM Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 You guys go on and on. Have you actually talked to Declude? There are no changes for you if you do not want them. And Moving to V4 is easy. You must have a lot of time to waste, fret and worry. If you would only communicate with them. I realize there have been misunderstandings and some mail was not received by many. Give them a break. All your demand are not appropriate on this list. YI am amazed with the time you spend on conjecture and assumptions that just do not have any foundation. I have discussed and clarified things with Declude and am totally satisfied. The sky is not falling! Harry Vanderzand inTown Internet & Computer Services 519-741-1222 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MattSent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:10 PMTo: Declude.JunkMail@declude.comSubject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Barry,Before you publish your future strategy, you should take a lot more time to consider the willingness of your customers to come along. I have never heard of a similar piece of software that expires in this way, and effectively forces a customer to renew their license. The only things that are remotely close are Microsoft products which are sold a different way for volume licensing, but they offer these subscriptions at a price that is just a fraction of the full product price, they are generally considered to be discounted by the companies purchasing them, and the choice is optional to choose the subscription or the standard purchase. That is clearly not the case here.Declude is not a service, it's a piece of software, and I expect to pay for software the way that software is paid for. I will never pay an annual license to use such a piece of software. Never. Especially when that piece of software requires me to pay for multiple other products in order to have acceptable protection, and work many long hours in developing plug-ins to enhance functionality that doesn't exist in the product itself. The strength of Declude is it's flexibility as a framework, but not as a solution in itself. There is a major disconnect between your perception of the market, and what I an others on this end see.While this model might seem appealing to you, it is grossly uncompetitive, and it comes at an incredibly inopportune time. We as a community have been mostly understanding of the disruption associated with the change of ownership, but up to this point there has been only small advancements in the product that benefit us. With the exception of one piece of added functionality, I could still be using the same release that I was using two years ago when you took over the company. Whether or not it is apparent to you, it is very apparent to the majority of your customers that I communicate with that the product is lagging, and not it is being priced uncompetitively on top of that. People who are one day faced with the prospect of renewing a service agreement and feeling angry over not having used a single release in the previous year are now being faced with a choice between a dead-end product (non-annually licensed software), and upgrading to an annual license at a greatly increased price.The issues with development and price on th
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
Naturally Barry did of course take time out of his Sunday to give me a call, and I have talked with him on several occasions in the past. I don't at all doubt Barry's best intentions, but I would prefer they be executed differently. I strongly believe that what is best for Declude is best for me and others around here, but there are obviously some differences in options and perceptions as to how to get there and what is really at issue. There are some things that are more clear. There was an issue in sending out notifications to some users, and the group that didn't get them seems to have been disproportionally the 'power users' that frequent these lists. It also appears that the same group didn't have their account pages updated with the information about the upgrade path which leads to further confusion. They have different criteria depending on multiple factors in determining one's upgrade path and pricing. Some of us only need to continue to pay the SA price and get non-time-limited rights to run their software going forward, though I'm not sure that this has been stated clearly in a license or not, and it should be if it isn't. This isn't universal though, and I can't say what the arrangement is for everyone else except that it can apparently be different, and according to an earlier post, they are still trying to figure out what to do in relation to those customers for the long-term, and until then, they can continue to use 3.x under the old terms. This of course might have made sense to them, but the effect is confusion among some, and the execution in delivering this information contributed greatly to perceptions around here. I re-read my original message after my conversation with Barry, and I believe that the essence of that note is still appropriate. I believe the new terms, whether or not they apply to me, are confusing since people don't expect their software to expire and may assume that an annual subscription is comparable to an SA, and I also believe that at this moment, it is uncompetitive in light of the industry and circumstances. I am concerned about differences in perception, and I am concerned about their timing and execution. It seems that SmarterMail's release forced their hand before they were completely prepared for what they want to do. I also agree with what Ben said a moment ago on the Declude.Virus list. While I can only really speak to my own perception, I don't believe that such a move would have occurred at this time if my perception was shared among others, and they understood this perception. I'm not yet convinced that my perception is wrong, but I am going to continue to give the benefit of a doubt to them and wait to see what develops. I for one wouldn't mind one bit if the SA prices were increased by 50% so long as the product was adding functionality and stable software was faster to market. I am also sure that many more would be renewing SA's under those conditions, and maybe they wouldn't have felt compelled to move to selling the software as a yearly service if this was the case. Matt Harry Vanderzand wrote: You guys go on and on. Have you actually talked to Declude? There are no changes for you if you do not want them. And Moving to V4 is easy. You must have a lot of time to waste, fret and worry. If you would only communicate with them. I realize there have been misunderstandings and some mail was not received by many. Give them a break. All your demand are not appropriate on this list. YI am amazed with the time you spend on conjecture and assumptions that just do not have any foundation. I have discussed and clarified things with Declude and am totally satisfied. The sky is not falling! Harry Vanderzand inTown Internet & Computer Services 519-741-1222 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:10 PM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0 Barry, Before you publish your future strategy, you should take a lot more time to consider the willingness of your customers to come along. I have never heard of a similar piece of software that expires in this way, and effectively forces a customer to renew their license. The only things that are remotely close are Microsoft products which are sold a different way for volume licensing, but they offer these subscriptions at a price that is just a fraction of the full product price, they are generally considered to be discounted by the companies purchasing them, and the choice is optional to choose the subscription or the standard purchase. That is clearly not the case here. Declude is not a service, it's a piece of software, and I expect to pay for software the way that software is paid for. I will never pay an annual license to use such a piece of software.
[Declude.JunkMail] Under specific conditions, action not as specified
Declude Version: 3.0.5.23 In JunkMail, a message scores more than enough points to be DELETED. In VIRUS.CFG AVAFTERJM ON DELETEVULNERABILITIES OFF The result is that the message is moved to the /sppol/virus folder. It should have been deleted Michael Thomas Mathbox 978-683-6718 1-877-MATHBOX (Toll Free)
[Declude.JunkMail] Apologies
Hi All, I inadvertently sent a plain text message encoded as base64 to list. I had been comparing spammer generated plain text messages encoded as base64 to the same generated by Outlook Express. I forgot to switch it back. My Apologies, Michael Thomas Mathbox 978-683-6718 1-877-MATHBOX (Toll Free) --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude EVA www.declude.com] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
