Re: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
I really think these type of comments, while they may be perfectly valid, are
better done off line as they are outside of the scope and purpose of this
list.John T
eServices For You
-Original Message-
From: "Patrick Childers"
Sent 6/4/2009 10:36:30 AM
To: declude.virus@declude.com
Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th
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Irun a business and I work for a business. Thank you. Maybe you should work for
one...~PFrom: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of
David BarkerSent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 1:17 PMTo:
declude.vi...@declude.comsubject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable
for 13% of th year?>… but I can spend almost whateverI need to to protect my
network.There are those of us who run businesses and then there are those who
work for them. Either way your feedback is appreciated ;)DavidFrom:
supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Patrick
ChildersSent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 12:50 PMTo:
declude.vi...@declude.comsubject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable
for 13% of th year?Comments are in-line.From: supp...@declude.com
[mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David BarkerSent: Thursday, June 04,
2009 10:03 AMTo: declude.vi...@declude.comsubject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude
Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?Sorry no marketing department to give you
the warm and fuzzy spin, just me.>Obviously.Couple of suggestions. Declude has
the ability to run upto 5 additional cmd line scanners of your choice, we
provide AVG as a courtesy to our customers as in the past Declude did not have
any internal virus scanner, you would have to go out and purchase that
separately>Well aware of that.It would be good to run more than 1 virus scanner
for several reasons, one of which is failure of an AV scanner, (admittedly in
this instance failure was on our part) But rest assured false positives, no
virus signatures, lag time are problems ALL AV vendors are faced with. There
are some that are free that work extremely well ClamWin or ClamAV is an example
of this.In addition we have ZEROHOUR as a option for Perpetual license
customers as an additional virus scanners providing ZEROHOUR protection and
additional spam definitions. For the amount of money that this is being offered
for it is a wise investment. If you opted out of this because you didn’t want
to spend the extra few $ on security then you have different issues and it’s
not Declude.>LOL. I maybe one of the few, but I can spend almost whateverI need
to to protect my network. I do run multiple scanners as well as virus scanning
on the perimeter firewall.>If you didn’t want to spend the extra few $
on making sure your code is up-to-date then you have different issues and it’s
not your customers. Lastly Patrick please contact supp...@declude.com having
looked at your host record it does not look like you are receiving any AV
update
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
I run a business and I work for a business. Thank you. Maybe you should work for one... ~P _ From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 1:17 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? >. but I can spend almost whatever I need to to protect my network. There are those of us who run businesses and then there are those who work for them. Either way your feedback is appreciated ;) David From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Childers Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 12:50 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Comments are in-line. _ From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:03 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sorry no marketing department to give you the warm and fuzzy spin, just me. >Obviously. Couple of suggestions. Declude has the ability to run upto 5 additional cmd line scanners of your choice, we provide AVG as a courtesy to our customers as in the past Declude did not have any internal virus scanner, you would have to go out and purchase that separately >Well aware of that. It would be good to run more than 1 virus scanner for several reasons, one of which is failure of an AV scanner, (admittedly in this instance failure was on our part) But rest assured false positives, no virus signatures, lag time are problems ALL AV vendors are faced with. There are some that are free that work extremely well ClamWin or ClamAV is an example of this. In addition we have ZEROHOUR as a option for Perpetual license customers as an additional virus scanners providing ZEROHOUR protection and additional spam definitions. For the amount of money that this is being offered for it is a wise investment. If you opted out of this because you didn't want to spend the extra few $ on security then you have different issues and it's not Declude. >LOL. I maybe one of the few, but I can spend almost whatever I need to to protect my network. I do run multiple scanners as well as virus scanning on the perimeter firewall. >If you didn't want to spend the extra few $ on making sure your code is up-to-date then you have different issues and it's not your customers. Lastly Patrick please contact supp...@declude.com having looked at your host record it does not look like you are receiving any AV updates - it could be that your firewall is blocking the AV updates, our support can work with you to fix that. >LOL again. Don't need to. I don't use AVG. I only chimed in because I felt that your responses to the issue was not helpful and somewhat offending the users of your product. >Again, if you can't get the job done at current income levels, I suggest you come up with the necessary figure after reviewing your operating costs. You're the one selling a product. As for you >wanting to know what I will pay for your product, I will leave you with this answer: As much as I think it is worth. >If the product is rock solid and I feel (or believe) that the company is trying to stay up with current technologies and cares about me as a customer, I will pay much more than I would to a >company that doesn't project those qualities. >Oh, and by the way, I know how to setup a firewall. So, why don't you guys concentrate on your code instead. >Thanks, >Patrick Thanks David From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Childers Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 9:13 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? How much are we willing to pay? It doesn't matter if it costs $5 or $5000 if the product doesn't work. Especially when you, the developer, doesn't notice the problem for a month and a half - especially when the problem has been reported by end users. Do you not run your own product? Maybe you don't realize this, but your whining customers put a level of "trust" in your company whether you want it or not. This "trust" is automatic when you are dealing with A/V products that protect mail systems and their networks. If you lose that trust, the cost won't matter. You won't have enough customers to stay in business anyway. Price you product at whatever you think you need to. The mail admins will either buy it or they won't. Maybe it's time for you to find another person to communicate with the list. You certainly aren't giving your end users that warm and fuzzy feeling. (IMO) Regards,
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
>. but I can spend almost whatever I need to to protect my network. There are those of us who run businesses and then there are those who work for them. Either way your feedback is appreciated ;) David From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Childers Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 12:50 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Comments are in-line. _ From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:03 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sorry no marketing department to give you the warm and fuzzy spin, just me. >Obviously. Couple of suggestions. Declude has the ability to run upto 5 additional cmd line scanners of your choice, we provide AVG as a courtesy to our customers as in the past Declude did not have any internal virus scanner, you would have to go out and purchase that separately >Well aware of that. It would be good to run more than 1 virus scanner for several reasons, one of which is failure of an AV scanner, (admittedly in this instance failure was on our part) But rest assured false positives, no virus signatures, lag time are problems ALL AV vendors are faced with. There are some that are free that work extremely well ClamWin or ClamAV is an example of this. In addition we have ZEROHOUR as a option for Perpetual license customers as an additional virus scanners providing ZEROHOUR protection and additional spam definitions. For the amount of money that this is being offered for it is a wise investment. If you opted out of this because you didn't want to spend the extra few $ on security then you have different issues and it's not Declude. >LOL. I maybe one of the few, but I can spend almost whatever I need to to protect my network. I do run multiple scanners as well as virus scanning on the perimeter firewall. >If you didn't want to spend the extra few $ on making sure your code is up-to-date then you have different issues and it's not your customers. Lastly Patrick please contact supp...@declude.com having looked at your host record it does not look like you are receiving any AV updates - it could be that your firewall is blocking the AV updates, our support can work with you to fix that. >LOL again. Don't need to. I don't use AVG. I only chimed in because I felt that your responses to the issue was not helpful and somewhat offending the users of your product. >Again, if you can't get the job done at current income levels, I suggest you come up with the necessary figure after reviewing your operating costs. You're the one selling a product. As for you >wanting to know what I will pay for your product, I will leave you with this answer: As much as I think it is worth. >If the product is rock solid and I feel (or believe) that the company is trying to stay up with current technologies and cares about me as a customer, I will pay much more than I would to a >company that doesn't project those qualities. >Oh, and by the way, I know how to setup a firewall. So, why don't you guys concentrate on your code instead. >Thanks, >Patrick Thanks David From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Childers Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 9:13 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? How much are we willing to pay? It doesn't matter if it costs $5 or $5000 if the product doesn't work. Especially when you, the developer, doesn't notice the problem for a month and a half - especially when the problem has been reported by end users. Do you not run your own product? Maybe you don't realize this, but your whining customers put a level of "trust" in your company whether you want it or not. This "trust" is automatic when you are dealing with A/V products that protect mail systems and their networks. If you lose that trust, the cost won't matter. You won't have enough customers to stay in business anyway. Price you product at whatever you think you need to. The mail admins will either buy it or they won't. Maybe it's time for you to find another person to communicate with the list. You certainly aren't giving your end users that warm and fuzzy feeling. (IMO) Regards, ~Patrick _ From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:14 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Darin, I accept your constructive criticism. With regard to the situation;
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Comments are in-line. _ From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:03 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sorry no marketing department to give you the warm and fuzzy spin, just me. >Obviously. Couple of suggestions. Declude has the ability to run upto 5 additional cmd line scanners of your choice, we provide AVG as a courtesy to our customers as in the past Declude did not have any internal virus scanner, you would have to go out and purchase that separately >Well aware of that. It would be good to run more than 1 virus scanner for several reasons, one of which is failure of an AV scanner, (admittedly in this instance failure was on our part) But rest assured false positives, no virus signatures, lag time are problems ALL AV vendors are faced with. There are some that are free that work extremely well ClamWin or ClamAV is an example of this. In addition we have ZEROHOUR as a option for Perpetual license customers as an additional virus scanners providing ZEROHOUR protection and additional spam definitions. For the amount of money that this is being offered for it is a wise investment. If you opted out of this because you didn't want to spend the extra few $ on security then you have different issues and it's not Declude. >LOL. I maybe one of the few, but I can spend almost whatever I need to to protect my network. I do run multiple scanners as well as virus scanning on the perimeter firewall. >If you didn't want to spend the extra few $ on making sure your code is up-to-date then you have different issues and it's not your customers. Lastly Patrick please contact supp...@declude.com having looked at your host record it does not look like you are receiving any AV updates - it could be that your firewall is blocking the AV updates, our support can work with you to fix that. >LOL again. Don't need to. I don't use AVG. I only chimed in because I felt that your responses to the issue was not helpful and somewhat offending the users of your product. >Again, if you can't get the job done at current income levels, I suggest you come up with the necessary figure after reviewing your operating costs. You're the one selling a product. As for you >wanting to know what I will pay for your product, I will leave you with this answer: As much as I think it is worth. >If the product is rock solid and I feel (or believe) that the company is trying to stay up with current technologies and cares about me as a customer, I will pay much more than I would to a >company that doesn't project those qualities. >Oh, and by the way, I know how to setup a firewall. So, why don't you guys concentrate on your code instead. >Thanks, >Patrick Thanks David From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Childers Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 9:13 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? How much are we willing to pay? It doesn't matter if it costs $5 or $5000 if the product doesn't work. Especially when you, the developer, doesn't notice the problem for a month and a half - especially when the problem has been reported by end users. Do you not run your own product? Maybe you don't realize this, but your whining customers put a level of "trust" in your company whether you want it or not. This "trust" is automatic when you are dealing with A/V products that protect mail systems and their networks. If you lose that trust, the cost won't matter. You won't have enough customers to stay in business anyway. Price you product at whatever you think you need to. The mail admins will either buy it or they won't. Maybe it's time for you to find another person to communicate with the list. You certainly aren't giving your end users that warm and fuzzy feeling. (IMO) Regards, ~Patrick _ From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:14 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Darin, I accept your constructive criticism. With regard to the situation; 1. We recognize that this was a serious failure 2. The issue was highlighted and resolved in the quickest possible time 3. Procedural steps have been put in place to ensure that this does not happen again. 4. This was an unfortunate circumstance and I understand the frustration on the part of Declude customers 5. We make every effort to meet the needs of our customers My statement regarding increased prices
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Sorry no marketing department to give you the warm and fuzzy spin, just me. Couple of suggestions. Declude has the ability to run upto 5 additional cmd line scanners of your choice, we provide AVG as a courtesy to our customers as in the past Declude did not have any internal virus scanner, you would have to go out and purchase that separately It would be good to run more than 1 virus scanner for several reasons, one of which is failure of an AV scanner, (admittedly in this instance failure was on our part) But rest assured false positives, no virus signatures, lag time are problems ALL AV vendors are faced with. There are some that are free that work extremely well ClamWin or ClamAV is an example of this. In addition we have ZEROHOUR as a option for Perpetual license customers as an additional virus scanners providing ZEROHOUR protection and additional spam definitions. For the amount of money that this is being offered for it is a wise investment. If you opted out of this because you didn't want to spend the extra few $ on security then you have different issues and it's not Declude. Lastly Patrick please contact supp...@declude.com having looked at your host record it does not look like you are receiving any AV updates - it could be that your firewall is blocking the AV updates, our support can work with you to fix that. Thanks David From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Childers Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 9:13 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? How much are we willing to pay? It doesn't matter if it costs $5 or $5000 if the product doesn't work. Especially when you, the developer, doesn't notice the problem for a month and a half - especially when the problem has been reported by end users. Do you not run your own product? Maybe you don't realize this, but your whining customers put a level of "trust" in your company whether you want it or not. This "trust" is automatic when you are dealing with A/V products that protect mail systems and their networks. If you lose that trust, the cost won't matter. You won't have enough customers to stay in business anyway. Price you product at whatever you think you need to. The mail admins will either buy it or they won't. Maybe it's time for you to find another person to communicate with the list. You certainly aren't giving your end users that warm and fuzzy feeling. (IMO) Regards, ~Patrick _ From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:14 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Darin, I accept your constructive criticism. With regard to the situation; 1. We recognize that this was a serious failure 2. The issue was highlighted and resolved in the quickest possible time 3. Procedural steps have been put in place to ensure that this does not happen again. 4. This was an unfortunate circumstance and I understand the frustration on the part of Declude customers 5. We make every effort to meet the needs of our customers My statement regarding increased prices has less to do with this current problem as it has to do with moving forward and preventing issues like this in the future. More $ means more resources which means more can be done which equates to less risk in all areas. Declude has given good service, value for money and a product that works for minimum $. I understand that the expectation is always more for less, however if customers expect more than what is currently being delivered then I have to ask the question, in clear, open and honest communication.. "Mr/s Customer" how much more are you willing to pay so that we can invest in more resources in order to develop a better product? David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> dbar...@declude.com From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:50 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Wow, what a way to respond to a long-time, loyal paying customer! Instead of apologizing for the serious problem and relaying what steps are being taken to avoid it happening again (a simple reminder in the calendar system of your choice would suffice), it's being thrown back in the customer's face. Regarding the question of increasing prices for service agreements, that has no bearing on a current customer who has already paid the fees. Such customers should expect the service they paid for to be rendered.
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Ok final comments on this. 1. For those who took my example of the decisions making process and criticized it citing pre-release time of IMail 11 etc etc. If you think I only have a choice between 2 options - where to dedicate my resources - you missed the point. 2. I fully agree with being proactive see point 1. The reality choosing between what has to be done and what we would like to do. 3. Sandys options: [a] dissolve the company as is How does that benefit everyone ? [b] sell the product to a developer Show me the money! [c] (re)package it as an owner-maintained, purpose-built software tool - Not enough demand. [d] build up from there as needed This is what I have opted for. 4. For customers who have a perpetual license but no service agreement the expiration date of AVG is irrelevant as with no service agreement there are no updates or virus signatures. 5. I agree there can always be improvements in the decision making process, allocation of resources and creativity. The REAL issue is resources, how do I know?? because I run this business and have all the information. So, I appreciate everyone's comments whether you agree or disagree is fine, but what I have seen throughout this thread is that "Talk is cheap" not one critic revealed how much they are willing to pay to help address the problem going forward. The bottom line . you are not willing - and it's a good thing I understand that, so I will continue to offer great service, a product that works and at prices that would make the Salvation Army proud, so please forgive me when sometimes things do go amiss. David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax dbar...@declude.com From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Serge Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 7:55 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Hello David, 1- What will happen to those who have a perpetual licence but no SA on 2010-12-31 2- The prices and number of developpers is declude buisness, we cannot force you one way or another but once you make your choice, we, the customers, make our decisions based on factors, including price, quality, so even if you want to blame low prices and lack of staff,, it is still declude management fault, not the customers that is not to say that i'm not satisfied with declude product and support just dont agree with your logic BR Serge - Original Message - From: David Barker To: declude.virus@declude.com Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 3:07 PM Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Andy, a. Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error as with this specific example. What happened here is not the norm but an exception. It was not our choice to hard code the expiration date but a requirement from AVG. In this instance the specific persons who we had been working with at AVG are no longer with the company and the process of having this renewed took longer than usual. b. I am not sure if you are being facetious, but if it makes you feel better, sure you can schedule a reminder for me, please email me at least 3 month prior of the new expiration date 2010-12-31 c. Yes AVG was not working as it should have been since 2009-04-10 I agree with you - this is totally unacceptable, intolerable, painful and should not be brushed aside lightly. You are correct in your observations, we should increase our prices dramatically so we can hire more developers to ensure unfortunate incidents like this dont happen again. Considering the market and what other vendors charge how much more are you prepared to pay for your service agreement so that we can meet this type of requirement ? David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax dbar...@declude.com From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:08 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Importance: High Sensitivity: Personal Hi, Dave so now that we have a working Declude Virus again, what can be done to prevent this from recurring. a) Apparently Declude Virus has no error tracking in place at all otherwise it would have REPORTED to us (or your own Declude to your own mail server) that the AVG API was no longer performing scans? b) Do the customers need to set a follow-up reminder for December 2010, which is when your new renewed AVG license will expire? The old DecludeProc had THIS AVG License String: LicBeg, Ver=1.0, Name="Declude", Exp=2009-04-10 So this implies, that the product was inoperable since April 10th for every custo
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
How much are we willing to pay? It doesn't matter if it costs $5 or $5000 if the product doesn't work. Especially when you, the developer, doesn't notice the problem for a month and a half - especially when the problem has been reported by end users. Do you not run your own product? Maybe you don't realize this, but your whining customers put a level of "trust" in your company whether you want it or not. This "trust" is automatic when you are dealing with A/V products that protect mail systems and their networks. If you lose that trust, the cost won't matter. You won't have enough customers to stay in business anyway. Price you product at whatever you think you need to. The mail admins will either buy it or they won't. Maybe it's time for you to find another person to communicate with the list. You certainly aren't giving your end users that warm and fuzzy feeling. (IMO) Regards, ~Patrick <mailto:pchild...@hgbd.com> _ From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:14 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Darin, I accept your constructive criticism. With regard to the situation; 1. We recognize that this was a serious failure 2. The issue was highlighted and resolved in the quickest possible time 3. Procedural steps have been put in place to ensure that this does not happen again. 4. This was an unfortunate circumstance and I understand the frustration on the part of Declude customers 5. We make every effort to meet the needs of our customers My statement regarding increased prices has less to do with this current problem as it has to do with moving forward and preventing issues like this in the future. More $ means more resources which means more can be done which equates to less risk in all areas. Declude has given good service, value for money and a product that works for minimum $. I understand that the expectation is always more for less, however if customers expect more than what is currently being delivered then I have to ask the question, in clear, open and honest communication.. "Mr/s Customer" how much more are you willing to pay so that we can invest in more resources in order to develop a better product? David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> dbar...@declude.com From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:50 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Wow, what a way to respond to a long-time, loyal paying customer! Instead of apologizing for the serious problem and relaying what steps are being taken to avoid it happening again (a simple reminder in the calendar system of your choice would suffice), it's being thrown back in the customer's face. Regarding the question of increasing prices for service agreements, that has no bearing on a current customer who has already paid the fees. Such customers should expect the service they paid for to be rendered. Failure to do so is a breach of agreement on Declude's part. While we are all human and problems can occur, this is a serious failure, and the tone of the response being putative instead of apologetic makes customers less forgiving, not more. To be frank, many customers are asking what they are paying for, when fix and feature requests take months to be released, or not at all. I understand the situation may be frustrating, but it's often best to step back for a moment, vent elsewhere if needed, then respond professionally to customers. Clear, open, and honest communication also helps. Please don't take this email as incendiary. It is meant to be constructive. Darin. - Original Message - From: David Barker <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> To: declude.virus@declude.com Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:07 AM Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Andy, a. Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error as with this specific example. What happened here is not the norm but an exception. It was not our choice to hard code the expiration date but a requirement from AVG. In this instance the specific persons who we had been working with at AVG are no longer with the company and the process of having this renewed took longer than usual. b. I am not sure if you are being facetious, but if it makes you feel better, sure you can schedule a reminder for me, please email me at least 3 month prior of the new expiration date 2010-12-31 c. Yes AVG
Re: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Hello David, 1- What will happen to those who have a perpetual licence but no SA on 2010-12-31 2- The prices and number of developpers is declude buisness, we cannot force you one way or another but once you make your choice, we, the customers, make our decisions based on factors, including price, quality, so even if you want to blame low prices and lack of staff,, it is still declude management fault, not the customers that is not to say that i'm not satisfied with declude product and support just dont agree with your logic BR Serge - Original Message - From: David Barker To: declude.virus@declude.com Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 3:07 PM Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Andy, a. Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error as with this specific example. What happened here is not the norm but an exception. It was not our choice to hard code the expiration date but a requirement from AVG. In this instance the specific persons who we had been working with at AVG are no longer with the company and the process of having this renewed took longer than usual. b. I am not sure if you are being facetious, but if it makes you feel better, sure you can schedule a reminder for me, please email me at least 3 month prior of the new expiration date 2010-12-31 c. Yes AVG was not working as it should have been since 2009-04-10 I agree with you - this is totally unacceptable, intolerable, painful and should not be brushed aside lightly. You are correct in your observations, we should increase our prices dramatically so we can hire more developers to ensure unfortunate incidents like this don't happen again. Considering the market and what other vendors charge how much more are you prepared to pay for your service agreement so that we can meet this type of requirement ? David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax dbar...@declude.com From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:08 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Importance: High Sensitivity: Personal Hi, Dave - so now that we have a working Declude Virus again, what can be done to prevent this from recurring. a) Apparently Declude Virus has no error tracking in place at all - otherwise it would have REPORTED to us (or your own Declude to your own mail server) that the AVG API was no longer performing scans? b) Do the customers need to set a follow-up reminder for December 2010, which is when your new renewed AVG license will expire? The old DecludeProc had THIS AVG License String: LicBeg, Ver=1.0, Name="Declude", Exp=2009-04-10 So this implies, that the product was inoperable since April 10th for every customer because Declude didn't obtain a new annual AVG license and had to wait a few days for this "transaction" to complete? That means the product was unusable for 13% of the year? This can't just be brushed aside quietly. Best Regards, Andy --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re[2]: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
> Again to combat this we just need additional developer/s so that we > can dedicate one to maintenance and the other/s to innovation. So you have a single developer who is working full-time on the product, and the maintenance of the product takes an entire person-day? Like on every given day, you spend the whole day making sure the existing feature set works with the then-current version of IMail and SmarterMail? Dunno, man, I think some of Andy's comments about the rate of development of new features sound more plausible. Uncomfortable though it is to point fingers at other developers, the bottom line is that you seem like *less* than a one-man-show. And even a part-time-one-man-show setup might be perfectly fine! But the obvious presence of other management "players" that make it seem a lot less pure. I would guess that a lot of us knowingly put our faith in one-man-shows (I will proudly come out as a user of CrushFTP, which is blatantly supported by one guy, Ben -- but he throws his life into it as Scott once did, for better or worse), because we want people to have that same faith in our small companies. But everything needs to be up front. > Yes that community was (and what is left) is extremely helpful and useful. I can speak as someone who very lightly supports Declude at one distant customer at this point (like, an hour per 6 months), but who once was very active here. Once Declude decided it was going to go "big-time" without building a GUI configurator, I knew this wouldn't work. It is that very strange class of Windows-based product that is/was loved by the most technical fringe of the Windows/SMTP community for its flexibility, though it sometimes seemed to have opacity just short of Sendmail macros! But once you stop building features, knowing the secret world isn't fun anymore. There were just so many misapprehensions about the promise of the product at the point that you went corporate that I felt it was all downhill. An ex-partner of mine once whined, "Why can't *we* be a giant software company?" "Because," I said, "there are two of us working [then] on a product to sell to maybe 200 people." > time. But if I should speak for myself. I realize I can't make everyone > happy its part of my job. Here is a case in point, let's use this scenario. > 1. AVG fails > 2.IMail release version 11 which is incompatible with Declude This is an incomplete scenario by a long shot. How many person-hours must be committed for each fix? Do you find out about IMail incompatibility in a pre-release beta version, before anyone can reasonably squawk about 0day incompatibility? > If I choose to fix AVG first - IMail users scream If you found about a non-working antivirus _in production_, but non-working IMail _in beta_, there is no choice! Also, it would appear that non-working AV is not only more urgent in its own right, but would affect ALL users -- so this is really bad example for your viewpoint. > The only thing that would change this current situation is revenues which > means price increase. (Maybe it is time?) Maybe it is time to [a] dissolve the company as is [b] sell the product to a developer [c] (re)package it as an owner-maintained, purpose-built software tool [d] build up from there as needed I would hope there is enough revenue to keep a single developer supported at an industry-standard income + do some marketing. I mean, not every product is meant to beat the world financially. Some products just are destined to lead technically. --Sandy --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Nick, I think I would rather be a piñata with 20 screaming kids at the moment- at least that way once the candy has dropped they would leave me alone ;) David From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Nick Hayer Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:23 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? David - At times like this its OK to sigh these emails: David "your pinata" Barker :) -Nick _ From: "David Barker" Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:14 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Nice. Thank you for your feedback Markus. >>MANY if not most of all Declude users has initially chosen "the Swiss army knife" as their tool who they can customize, enhance and integrate in their FULLY email filter system. This is true from the past and for many older Declude customers, but the market has changed over the years - there are not enough people looking for "the Swiss army knife" approach anymore. With managed services, hardware appliances etc. anti-spam and AV is a cost center for most ISP's and they would rather not have to deal with it at all. IMail themselves started losing market share for the same reasons which had a direct impact on the Declude business. So what "was" is no more. >>evolution and new functionality in order to be able to stay ahead or at least near on top of the market leaders. Agreed, but also take into account the changing Mail systems, we support both IMail and Smartermail, specifically supporting Smartermail as they were growing while IMail was shrinking. Every time a new release of IMail or Smartermail comes out something inevitably changes meaning we have to deal with the MUST do's rather than innovation. Again to combat this we just need additional developer/s so that we can dedicate one to maintenance and the other/s to innovation. To do this we need $ and that cost will always be carried over to you the customer, which I have done my utmost best to avoid. >> noted the active community who has definitively helped to let Declude become what it is/was isn't there anymore. Yes that community was (and what is left) is extremely helpful and useful. >>All this isn't there anymore. Why? Because people who was ready to contribute hasn't received back what they want and need: If such people has asked for a new feature even if it was a little piece of thing the maximum to >> hear was that it will be placed on a long list of planned to-do's. Depending on when this was and who was making the Declude decisions at the time. But if I should speak for myself. I realize I can't make everyone happy its part of my job. Here is a case in point, let's use this scenario. AVG fails IMail release version 11 which is incompatible with Declude If I choose to fix AVG first - IMail users scream If I choose to fix IMail first - All users scream So in this instance best decision is to let IMail users complain. Either way Declude in one group of people is going to be the company that is "not doing enough" for its customers. This is not really true but rather the perception. >>In the case you hasn't discovered it yet, from the begin of April on there was a big increase of spam activity This information is very useful and this is why the lists exist if we can share information we have a community that benefits. >>If there would be really someone taking technical care of this product he has should put more then on eye in the past 2 months in order to keep this product at least near to other spam filtering products. The cow was milked and milked and milked and does urgently need now some fresh grass, water and maybe also a new clean stable. The only thing that would change this current situation is revenues which means price increase. (Maybe it is time?) David From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Gufler Markus | Limitis Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 3:26 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sensitivity: Personal Hi David, I'm observing not only this AVG issue but many different things in the past 4 years (while paying SA fee's). Your price is not that much that other Spamfilter vendors ask for but keep in mind that MANY if not most of all Declude users has initially chosen "the Swiss army knife" as their tool who they can customize, enhance and integrate in their FULLY email filter system. Maybe we could start a long and never ending thread if Declude should be a "flexible tool" or a "complete suite" for customers, but in any case both type of customers would need def
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
David - At times like this its OK to sigh these emails: David "your pinata" Barker :) -Nick From: "David Barker" Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:14 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Nice. Thank you for your feedback Markus. >>MANY if not most of all Declude users has initially chosen "the Swiss army knife" as their tool who they can customize, enhance and integrate in their FULLY email filter system. This is true from the past and for many older Declude customers, but the market has changed over the years - there are not enough people looking for "the Swiss army knife" approach anymore. With managed services, hardware appliances etc. anti-spam and AV is a cost center for most ISP's and they would rather not have to deal with it at all. IMail themselves started losing market share for the same reasons which had a direct impact on the Declude business. So what "was" is no more. >>evolution and new functionality in order to be able to stay ahead or at least near on top of the market leaders. Agreed, but also take into account the changing Mail systems, we support both IMail and Smartermail, specifically supporting Smartermail as they were growing while IMail was shrinking. Every time a new release of IMail or Smartermail comes out something inevitably changes meaning we have to deal with the MUST do's rather than innovation. Again to combat this we just need additional developer/s so that we can dedicate one to maintenance and the other/s to innovation. To do this we need $ and that cost will always be carried over to you the customer, which I have done my utmost best to avoid. >> noted the active community who has definitively helped to let Declude become what it is/was isn't there anymore. Yes that community was (and what is left) is extremely helpful and useful. >>All this isn't there anymore. Why? Because people who was ready to contribute hasn't received back what they want and need: If such people has asked for a new feature even if it was a little piece of thing the maximum to >> hear was that it will be placed on a long list of planned to-do's. Depending on when this was and who was making the Declude decisions at the time. But if I should speak for myself. I realize I can't make everyone happy its part of my job. Here is a case in point, let's use this scenario. 1. AVG fails 2.IMail release version 11 which is incompatible with Declude If I choose to fix AVG first - IMail users scream If I choose to fix IMail first - All users scream So in this instance best decision is to let IMail users complain. Either way Declude in one group of people is going to be the company that is "not doing enough" for its customers. This is not really true but rather the perception. >>In the case you hasn't discovered it yet, from the begin of April on there was a big increase of spam activity This information is very useful and this is why the lists exist if we can share information we have a community that benefits. >>If there would be really someone taking technical care of this product he has should put more then on eye in the past 2 months in order to keep this product at least near to other spam filtering products. The cow was milked and milked and milked and does urgently need now some fresh grass, water and maybe also a new clean stable. The only thing that would change this current situation is revenues which means price increase. (Maybe it is time?) David From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Gufler Markus | Limitis Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 3:26 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sensitivity: Personal Hi David, I'm observing not only this AVG issue but many different things in the past 4 years (while paying SA fee's). Your price is not that much that other Spamfilter vendors ask for but keep in mind that MANY if not most of all Declude users has initially chosen "the Swiss army knife" as their tool who they can customize, enhance and integrate in their FULLY email filter system. Maybe we could start a long and never ending thread if Declude should be a "flexible tool" or a "complete suite" for customers, but in any case both type of customers would need definitively one thing, and this is evolution and new functionality in order to be able to stay ahead or at least near on top of the market leaders. At the moment Declude stand-alone without additional external tests, additional external AV-engines and additional pre-filtering gateways like Alligate, IMHO is not a full, s
Re: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
My payment history is more like Andy's. We paid $264-$295 annually for our service agreements (JunkMail/Virus) from 2002 to 2006. We never had HiJack. Darin. - Original Message - From: David Barker To: declude.virus@declude.com Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 1:50 PM Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Here is the full breakdown. The "Good ol' " Days EVA - Service Agreement $195.00 JunkMail - Service Agreement $195.00 HiJack - Service Agreement $75.00 Total: $465 Today EVA - Service Agreement JunkMail - Service Agreement HiJack - Service Agreement AVG virus scanner Commtouch ZEROHOUR Antivirus + Spam definitions Total: $395 So you have a whole lot more for less money, and yes you are complaining. David From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 1:12 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sensitivity: Personal I think taking a software company to task on their lack of control DOES benefit all users technically! I didn't introduce pricing and staffing into this discussion - YOU did! Now you take me to task for responding to your pricing/staffing issues that YOU raised? >> Let's not forget you are paying less for the product maintenance today than >> you were 5 years ago << 1/6/2002: $295 1/14/2003: $295 1/23/2004: $295 (after having upgrading to "Pro" in March 2003) 1/5/2005: $264 12/30/2005: $264 8/18/2006: $309 1/19/2007: $309 3/13/2008: $395 6/2009: $395 Would you like to revise your statement? I'm not paying less, I'm paying 50% more. No complaints - just insisting on the truth. From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:40 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sensitivity: Personal Breathing and counting to 10 . ;) >> Whoever wrote this API implementation simply was too lazy to properly handle >> and report on the condition that absolutely was going to occur with 100% >> certainty on 4/10. That's a programming 101 and this flaw must be fixed, not >> "discussed". It's when an Anti-Virus product doesn't report that it has >> decided to stop detecting viruses. In coding Utopia yes that is true. I was unaware of this situation till now. I would fire the person who implemented this but we had already let them go over 2 years ago. I get what you are saying, I just don't think you understand when I say "I have heard you Andy, you can stop posting to the lists about this" >> Nice try, but to me, money is secondary to function. Nice dodge! >>I rather would pay appropriate maintenance for a product that is enhanced >>with features (as it was in the first few years when I had purchased it) than >>to pay a lesser annual maintenance for a dormant product! Ah the good old days of Scott Perry. Let's not forget you are paying less for the product maintenance today than you were 5 years ago. Dormant ? or not the fixes and features you want? >>However, I'm NOT willing to pay a company just so that they can pursue OTHER >>technical, legal and marketing ventures INSTEAD of enhancing the product. The >>problem with Declude is that they lost focus - this instance makes this >>painfully obvious! What are you talking about ? >>Let's get real. I remember looking at your web site a while ago and seeing a >>huge roster of "management". I also remember web site project and other >>products being launched and initating legal actions. Here's what you >>need >>Start laying off managers and other supervisory staff, cut the retainers for >>your attorneys, etc. and don't stop until you have enough money to finally >>pay ONE full time developer that actually works on continually >>enhancing >>the product we are all paying for and gets as much done as the original >>author of the product did for YEARS. Once caught up with 3 years of backlog, >>then sell me the upgrade!) >>You don't need "additional" personnel - you to need replace >>overhead-personnel with production personnel. Wrong. Declude is a separate company from DNSStuff. Our (Declude) r
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Didn't realize I was paying for CommTouch ZEROHOUR and for Hijack? How do I turn on CommTouch, since apparently I've been paying for its maintenance since at least 2008? No, I am NOT complaining about the amounts. I've many times forced money on various developers because I want them to be well funded so that they will be motivated to proceed. I'm complaining about the lack of delivering added features. I say it again: Money is secondary to me to function. From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 1:50 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sensitivity: Personal Here is the full breakdown. The "Good ol' " Days EVA - Service Agreement $195.00 JunkMail - Service Agreement $195.00 HiJack - Service Agreement $75.00 Total: $465 Today EVA - Service Agreement JunkMail - Service Agreement HiJack - Service Agreement AVG virus scanner Commtouch ZEROHOUR Antivirus + Spam definitions Total: $395 So you have a whole lot more for less money, and yes you are complaining. David From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 1:12 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sensitivity: Personal I think taking a software company to task on their lack of control DOES benefit all users technically! I didn't introduce pricing and staffing into this discussion - YOU did! Now you take me to task for responding to your pricing/staffing issues that YOU raised? >> Let's not forget you are paying less for the product maintenance today than you were 5 years ago << 1/6/2002: $295 1/14/2003: $295 1/23/2004: $295 (after having upgrading to "Pro" in March 2003) 1/5/2005: $264 12/30/2005: $264 8/18/2006: $309 1/19/2007: $309 3/13/2008: $395 6/2009: $395 Would you like to revise your statement? I'm not paying less, I'm paying 50% more. No complaints - just insisting on the truth. From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:40 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sensitivity: Personal Breathing and counting to 10 . ;) >> Whoever wrote this API implementation simply was too lazy to properly handle and report on the condition that absolutely was going to occur with 100% certainty on 4/10. That's a programming 101 and this flaw must be fixed, not "discussed". It's when an Anti-Virus product doesn't report that it has decided to stop detecting viruses. In coding Utopia yes that is true. I was unaware of this situation till now. I would fire the person who implemented this but we had already let them go over 2 years ago. I get what you are saying, I just don't think you understand when I say "I have heard you Andy, you can stop posting to the lists about this" >> Nice try, but to me, money is secondary to function. Nice dodge! >>I rather would pay appropriate maintenance for a product that is enhanced with features (as it was in the first few years when I had purchased it) than to pay a lesser annual maintenance for a dormant product! Ah the good old days of Scott Perry. Let's not forget you are paying less for the product maintenance today than you were 5 years ago. Dormant ? or not the fixes and features you want? >>However, I'm NOT willing to pay a company just so that they can pursue OTHER technical, legal and marketing ventures INSTEAD of enhancing the product. The problem with Declude is that they lost focus - this instance makes this painfully obvious! What are you talking about ? >>Let's get real. I remember looking at your web site a while ago and seeing a huge roster of "management". I also remember web site project and other products being launched and initating legal actions. Here's what you >>need Start laying off managers and other supervisory staff, cut the retainers for your attorneys, etc. and don't stop until you have enough money to finally pay ONE full time developer that actually works on continually >>enhancing the product we are all paying for and gets as much done as the original author of the product did for YEARS. Once caught up with 3 years of backlog, then sell me the upgrade!) >>You don't need "additional" personnel - you to need replace overhead-personnel with production personnel. Wrong. Declude is a separate company from DNSStuff
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Here is the full breakdown. The "Good ol' " Days EVA - Service Agreement $195.00 JunkMail - Service Agreement $195.00 HiJack - Service Agreement $75.00 Total: $465 Today EVA - Service Agreement JunkMail - Service Agreement HiJack - Service Agreement AVG virus scanner Commtouch ZEROHOUR Antivirus + Spam definitions Total: $395 So you have a whole lot more for less money, and yes you are complaining. David From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 1:12 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sensitivity: Personal I think taking a software company to task on their lack of control DOES benefit all users technically! I didn't introduce pricing and staffing into this discussion - YOU did! Now you take me to task for responding to your pricing/staffing issues that YOU raised? >> Let's not forget you are paying less for the product maintenance today than you were 5 years ago << 1/6/2002: $295 1/14/2003: $295 1/23/2004: $295 (after having upgrading to "Pro" in March 2003) 1/5/2005: $264 12/30/2005: $264 8/18/2006: $309 1/19/2007: $309 3/13/2008: $395 6/2009: $395 Would you like to revise your statement? I'm not paying less, I'm paying 50% more. No complaints - just insisting on the truth. From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:40 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sensitivity: Personal Breathing and counting to 10 . ;) >> Whoever wrote this API implementation simply was too lazy to properly handle and report on the condition that absolutely was going to occur with 100% certainty on 4/10. That's a programming 101 and this flaw must be fixed, not "discussed". It's when an Anti-Virus product doesn't report that it has decided to stop detecting viruses. In coding Utopia yes that is true. I was unaware of this situation till now. I would fire the person who implemented this but we had already let them go over 2 years ago. I get what you are saying, I just don't think you understand when I say "I have heard you Andy, you can stop posting to the lists about this" >> Nice try, but to me, money is secondary to function. Nice dodge! >>I rather would pay appropriate maintenance for a product that is enhanced with features (as it was in the first few years when I had purchased it) than to pay a lesser annual maintenance for a dormant product! Ah the good old days of Scott Perry. Let's not forget you are paying less for the product maintenance today than you were 5 years ago. Dormant ? or not the fixes and features you want? >>However, I'm NOT willing to pay a company just so that they can pursue OTHER technical, legal and marketing ventures INSTEAD of enhancing the product. The problem with Declude is that they lost focus - this instance makes this painfully obvious! What are you talking about ? >>Let's get real. I remember looking at your web site a while ago and seeing a huge roster of "management". I also remember web site project and other products being launched and initating legal actions. Here's what you >>need Start laying off managers and other supervisory staff, cut the retainers for your attorneys, etc. and don't stop until you have enough money to finally pay ONE full time developer that actually works on continually >>enhancing the product we are all paying for and gets as much done as the original author of the product did for YEARS. Once caught up with 3 years of backlog, then sell me the upgrade!) >>You don't need "additional" personnel - you to need replace overhead-personnel with production personnel. Wrong. Declude is a separate company from DNSStuff. Our (Declude) revenues are solely committed to maintaining and growing this company. >>I suspect the problem is not "lack" of funds but "diversion" of it. Oh wait. that's a good one. I think the best way to answer this just is to say your suspicion is incorrect. Finaly the purpose for these lists is mostly for tech questions and assisting other users. Your initial posts about AVG were fine, but if you want to get into what you "think" Declude should be doing as a company either email me or call me directly. David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> dbar...@declude.com
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Fair enough. For this particular case: If AVG requires a fix license date, then add an alert mechanism so that customers (specially those who might not upgrade until 12/2010) will receive an explicit notice that their Declude Virus is inactive! The log file would be the minimum - but ideally a postmaster email to an "admin" email address in one of the Declude config files. From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:50 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Maybe I am misunderstanding you but the AVG issue that occurred has been resolved, and should have never happened, now let's move on to the real issue at hand ... I am challenged with, how do I prevent such issues occurring in the future? As my resources are currently maxed what are my options ..? Suggestions ? David From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:42 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Let's turn this around: >> however if customers expect more than what is currently being delivered then I have to ask the question, in clear, open and honest communication.. "Mr/s Customer" how much more are you willing to pay so that we can invest in more resources in order to develop a better product? << How much more than 100% of the annual fee are customers expected to pay before Declude considers them entitled to expect to use the product (close to) 100% of the time - instead of 87%? The point is, this was a major mess up and the problem was absolutely poor programming practice (hard-coding a time limit without adding code to deal with the reaching of that limit). And your response is: Pay us more if you want us to use remotely reasonably normal programming practice? From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:14 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Darin, I accept your constructive criticism. With regard to the situation; 1. We recognize that this was a serious failure 2. The issue was highlighted and resolved in the quickest possible time 3. Procedural steps have been put in place to ensure that this does not happen again. 4. This was an unfortunate circumstance and I understand the frustration on the part of Declude customers 5. We make every effort to meet the needs of our customers My statement regarding increased prices has less to do with this current problem as it has to do with moving forward and preventing issues like this in the future. More $ means more resources which means more can be done which equates to less risk in all areas. Declude has given good service, value for money and a product that works for minimum $. I understand that the expectation is always more for less, however if customers expect more than what is currently being delivered then I have to ask the question, in clear, open and honest communication.. "Mr/s Customer" how much more are you willing to pay so that we can invest in more resources in order to develop a better product? David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> dbar...@declude.com From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:50 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Wow, what a way to respond to a long-time, loyal paying customer! Instead of apologizing for the serious problem and relaying what steps are being taken to avoid it happening again (a simple reminder in the calendar system of your choice would suffice), it's being thrown back in the customer's face. Regarding the question of increasing prices for service agreements, that has no bearing on a current customer who has already paid the fees. Such customers should expect the service they paid for to be rendered. Failure to do so is a breach of agreement on Declude's part. While we are all human and problems can occur, this is a serious failure, and the tone of the response being putative instead of apologetic makes customers less forgiving, not more. To be frank, many customers are asking what they are paying for, when fix and feature requests take months to be released, or not at all. I understand the situation may be frustrating, but it's often best to step back for a moment, vent elsewhere if needed, then respond professionally to customers. Clear, open, and honest communication also helps. Please d
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
I think taking a software company to task on their lack of control DOES benefit all users technically! I didn't introduce pricing and staffing into this discussion - YOU did! Now you take me to task for responding to your pricing/staffing issues that YOU raised? >> Let's not forget you are paying less for the product maintenance today than you were 5 years ago << 1/6/2002: $295 1/14/2003: $295 1/23/2004: $295 (after having upgrading to "Pro" in March 2003) 1/5/2005: $264 12/30/2005: $264 8/18/2006: $309 1/19/2007: $309 3/13/2008: $395 6/2009: $395 Would you like to revise your statement? I'm not paying less, I'm paying 50% more. No complaints - just insisting on the truth. From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:40 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sensitivity: Personal Breathing and counting to 10 . ;) >> Whoever wrote this API implementation simply was too lazy to properly handle and report on the condition that absolutely was going to occur with 100% certainty on 4/10. That's a programming 101 and this flaw must be fixed, not "discussed". It's when an Anti-Virus product doesn't report that it has decided to stop detecting viruses. In coding Utopia yes that is true. I was unaware of this situation till now. I would fire the person who implemented this but we had already let them go over 2 years ago. I get what you are saying, I just don't think you understand when I say "I have heard you Andy, you can stop posting to the lists about this" >> Nice try, but to me, money is secondary to function. Nice dodge! >>I rather would pay appropriate maintenance for a product that is enhanced with features (as it was in the first few years when I had purchased it) than to pay a lesser annual maintenance for a dormant product! Ah the good old days of Scott Perry. Let's not forget you are paying less for the product maintenance today than you were 5 years ago. Dormant ? or not the fixes and features you want? >>However, I'm NOT willing to pay a company just so that they can pursue OTHER technical, legal and marketing ventures INSTEAD of enhancing the product. The problem with Declude is that they lost focus - this instance makes this painfully obvious! What are you talking about ? >>Let's get real. I remember looking at your web site a while ago and seeing a huge roster of "management". I also remember web site project and other products being launched and initating legal actions. Here's what you >>need Start laying off managers and other supervisory staff, cut the retainers for your attorneys, etc. and don't stop until you have enough money to finally pay ONE full time developer that actually works on continually >>enhancing the product we are all paying for and gets as much done as the original author of the product did for YEARS. Once caught up with 3 years of backlog, then sell me the upgrade!) >>You don't need "additional" personnel - you to need replace overhead-personnel with production personnel. Wrong. Declude is a separate company from DNSStuff. Our (Declude) revenues are solely committed to maintaining and growing this company. >>I suspect the problem is not "lack" of funds but "diversion" of it. Oh wait. that's a good one. I think the best way to answer this just is to say your suspicion is incorrect. Finaly the purpose for these lists is mostly for tech questions and assisting other users. Your initial posts about AVG were fine, but if you want to get into what you "think" Declude should be doing as a company either email me or call me directly. David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> dbar...@declude.com --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
I didn't want to weigh in on this, but since I have a lot of experience with trying to do too much with too few resources I feel the need. First I'll say that item c. in David's response came across badly and certainly seemed to express a certain degree of frustration, probably due to the problem occurring in the first place as much as the responses from users. When you don't have enough resources you sometimes let things slip. You get them working with every intention of going back to put in place the needed checks to keep everything working. It's simple to add an appointment to a calendar, but unless you have a common calendar you're only giving yourself notice and that's probably not the best way to handle it. So, you plan to do it right and then it slips away in the rush of getting other problems fixed. David has stated that he has put procedures in place to prevent this from happening again and you either believe him or you don't. If you don't then you are probably already looking for an alternative product, and working on your security budget to accommodate the higher cost. I have received great service from Declude and since Interceptor came out I'm virtually ecstatic so I'll be sticking around and hoping that the prices stay low. Dan Shadix IT Systems Administrator Terry Reilly Health Services From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 10:12 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sensitivity: Personal Hi, Oh, now you really got me going. >> Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error as with >> this specific example << The problem is not the hard-coded expiration itself. Clearly, when this API (including the hardcoded expiry) was originally implemented, the fact that there was an expiry was a known fact to that developer - cause (s)he added it. Whoever wrote this API implementation simply was too lazy to properly handle and report on the condition that absolutely was going to occur with 100% certainty on 4/10. That's a programming 101 and this flaw must be fixed, not "discussed". It's when an Anti-Virus product doesn't report that it has decided to stop detecting viruses. >> how much more are you prepared to pay for your service agreement << Nice try, but to me, money is secondary to function. I rather would pay appropriate maintenance for a product that is enhanced with features (as it was in the first few years when I had purchased it) than to pay a lesser annual maintenance for a dormant product! However, I'm NOT willing to pay a company just so that they can pursue OTHER technical, legal and marketing ventures INSTEAD of enhancing the product. The problem with Declude is that they lost focus - this instance makes this painfully obvious! >> increase our prices dramatically so we can hire more developers << Let's get real. I remember looking at your web site a while ago and seeing a huge roster of "management". I also remember web site project and other products being launched and initating legal actions. Here's what you need: Start laying off managers and other supervisory staff, cut the retainers for your attorneys, etc. and don't stop until you have enough money to finally pay ONE full time developer that actually works on continually enhancing the product we are all paying for and gets as much done as the original author of the product did for YEARS. Once caught up with 3 years of backlog, then sell me the upgrade!) You don't need "additional" personnel - you to need replace overhead-personnel with production personnel. I suspect the problem is not "lack" of funds but "diversion" of it. Best Regards, Andy From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:07 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sensitivity: Personal Andy, a. Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error as with this specific example. What happened here is not the norm but an exception. It was not our choice to hard code the expiration date but a requirement from AVG. In this instance the specific persons who we had been working with at AVG are no longer with the company and the process of having this renewed took longer than usual. b. I am not sure if you are being facetious, but if it makes you feel better, sure you can schedule a reminder for me, please email me at least 3 month prior of the new expiration date 2010-12-31 c. Yes AVG was not working as it should have been since 2009-04-10 I agree with you - this is totally unacceptable
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
That's the point of the discussion. Declude added a hard-coded end-time but didn't add a handling mechanism that deals with the event when (not IF) the end-time was absolutely going to occur on the predescribed date. Consequently there were/are only indirect ways to find out: - Infected emails reached your desktops, and/or - You had secondary scanners plus a reporting tool, http://www.invariantsystems.com/dlanalyzer/, which made is obvious that ALL your viruses were ONLY being caught by the secondary scanners (which is what I have been pointing out for weeks), and/or - You check your VIRmmdd.LOG file and a scan of "AVG Reports VIRUS:" finds no matches. According to Declude, properly dealing with a known, hard-coded, expiry date is not included in the annual maintenance fees but is considered an "enhancement" for which they should charge extra. From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Michael Cummins Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:25 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sensitivity: Personal >> Darin Cox said: >> that the AVG API was no longer performing scans? > David Barker said: > Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error as with this specific example. Is this true? Has my Declude virus scanner been inoperable? My Declude logs look OK, but I guess that's what you're talking about? What's the deal? How can I detect this misbehavior, if indeed it did occur? -- Michael Cummins --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Maybe I am misunderstanding you but the AVG issue that occurred has been resolved, and should have never happened, now let's move on to the real issue at hand ... I am challenged with, how do I prevent such issues occurring in the future? As my resources are currently maxed what are my options ..? Suggestions ? David From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:42 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Let's turn this around: >> however if customers expect more than what is currently being delivered then I have to ask the question, in clear, open and honest communication.. "Mr/s Customer" how much more are you willing to pay so that we can invest in more resources in order to develop a better product? << How much more than 100% of the annual fee are customers expected to pay before Declude considers them entitled to expect to use the product (close to) 100% of the time - instead of 87%? The point is, this was a major mess up and the problem was absolutely poor programming practice (hard-coding a time limit without adding code to deal with the reaching of that limit). And your response is: Pay us more if you want us to use remotely reasonably normal programming practice? From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:14 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Darin, I accept your constructive criticism. With regard to the situation; 1. We recognize that this was a serious failure 2. The issue was highlighted and resolved in the quickest possible time 3. Procedural steps have been put in place to ensure that this does not happen again. 4. This was an unfortunate circumstance and I understand the frustration on the part of Declude customers 5. We make every effort to meet the needs of our customers My statement regarding increased prices has less to do with this current problem as it has to do with moving forward and preventing issues like this in the future. More $ means more resources which means more can be done which equates to less risk in all areas. Declude has given good service, value for money and a product that works for minimum $. I understand that the expectation is always more for less, however if customers expect more than what is currently being delivered then I have to ask the question, in clear, open and honest communication.. "Mr/s Customer" how much more are you willing to pay so that we can invest in more resources in order to develop a better product? David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> dbar...@declude.com From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:50 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Wow, what a way to respond to a long-time, loyal paying customer! Instead of apologizing for the serious problem and relaying what steps are being taken to avoid it happening again (a simple reminder in the calendar system of your choice would suffice), it's being thrown back in the customer's face. Regarding the question of increasing prices for service agreements, that has no bearing on a current customer who has already paid the fees. Such customers should expect the service they paid for to be rendered. Failure to do so is a breach of agreement on Declude's part. While we are all human and problems can occur, this is a serious failure, and the tone of the response being putative instead of apologetic makes customers less forgiving, not more. To be frank, many customers are asking what they are paying for, when fix and feature requests take months to be released, or not at all. I understand the situation may be frustrating, but it's often best to step back for a moment, vent elsewhere if needed, then respond professionally to customers. Clear, open, and honest communication also helps. Please don't take this email as incendiary. It is meant to be constructive. Darin. - Original Message - From: David Barker <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> To: declude.virus@declude.com Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:07 AM Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Andy, a. Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error as with this specific example. What happened here is not the norm but an exception. It was not our choice to hard code the expiration date but a requirement from AVG. In this instance the specific per
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Hi Michael, Yes this is true, however Declude EVA does not totally rely on virus signatures of AVG to stop virus' in your case you were not vulnerable as Commtouch ZEROHOUR virus was still operational as well as the built in virus detection by Declude EVA. We would still suggest you upgrade to the latest release asap. David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> dbar...@declude.com From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Michael Cummins Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:25 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sensitivity: Personal >> Darin Cox said: >> that the AVG API was no longer performing scans? > David Barker said: > Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error as with this specific example. Is this true? Has my Declude virus scanner been inoperable? My Declude logs look OK, but I guess that's what you're talking about? What's the deal? How can I detect this misbehavior, if indeed it did occur? -- Michael Cummins --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Let's turn this around: >> however if customers expect more than what is currently being delivered then I have to ask the question, in clear, open and honest communication.. "Mr/s Customer" how much more are you willing to pay so that we can invest in more resources in order to develop a better product? << How much more than 100% of the annual fee are customers expected to pay before Declude considers them entitled to expect to use the product (close to) 100% of the time - instead of 87%? The point is, this was a major mess up and the problem was absolutely poor programming practice (hard-coding a time limit without adding code to deal with the reaching of that limit). And your response is: Pay us more if you want us to use remotely reasonably normal programming practice? From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:14 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Darin, I accept your constructive criticism. With regard to the situation; 1. We recognize that this was a serious failure 2. The issue was highlighted and resolved in the quickest possible time 3. Procedural steps have been put in place to ensure that this does not happen again. 4. This was an unfortunate circumstance and I understand the frustration on the part of Declude customers 5. We make every effort to meet the needs of our customers My statement regarding increased prices has less to do with this current problem as it has to do with moving forward and preventing issues like this in the future. More $ means more resources which means more can be done which equates to less risk in all areas. Declude has given good service, value for money and a product that works for minimum $. I understand that the expectation is always more for less, however if customers expect more than what is currently being delivered then I have to ask the question, in clear, open and honest communication.. "Mr/s Customer" how much more are you willing to pay so that we can invest in more resources in order to develop a better product? David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> dbar...@declude.com From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:50 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Wow, what a way to respond to a long-time, loyal paying customer! Instead of apologizing for the serious problem and relaying what steps are being taken to avoid it happening again (a simple reminder in the calendar system of your choice would suffice), it's being thrown back in the customer's face. Regarding the question of increasing prices for service agreements, that has no bearing on a current customer who has already paid the fees. Such customers should expect the service they paid for to be rendered. Failure to do so is a breach of agreement on Declude's part. While we are all human and problems can occur, this is a serious failure, and the tone of the response being putative instead of apologetic makes customers less forgiving, not more. To be frank, many customers are asking what they are paying for, when fix and feature requests take months to be released, or not at all. I understand the situation may be frustrating, but it's often best to step back for a moment, vent elsewhere if needed, then respond professionally to customers. Clear, open, and honest communication also helps. Please don't take this email as incendiary. It is meant to be constructive. Darin. - Original Message - From: David Barker <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> To: declude.virus@declude.com Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:07 AM Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Andy, a. Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error as with this specific example. What happened here is not the norm but an exception. It was not our choice to hard code the expiration date but a requirement from AVG. In this instance the specific persons who we had been working with at AVG are no longer with the company and the process of having this renewed took longer than usual. b. I am not sure if you are being facetious, but if it makes you feel better, sure you can schedule a reminder for me, please email me at least 3 month prior of the new expiration date 2010-12-31 c. Yes AVG was not working as it should have been since 2009-04-10 I agree with you - this is totally unacceptable, intolerable, painful and should not be brushed aside lightly. You are correct in your ob
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Breathing and counting to 10 . ;) >> Whoever wrote this API implementation simply was too lazy to properly handle and report on the condition that absolutely was going to occur with 100% certainty on 4/10. That's a programming 101 and this flaw must be fixed, not "discussed". It's when an Anti-Virus product doesn't report that it has decided to stop detecting viruses. In coding Utopia yes that is true. I was unaware of this situation till now. I would fire the person who implemented this but we had already let them go over 2 years ago. I get what you are saying, I just don't think you understand when I say "I have heard you Andy, you can stop posting to the lists about this" >> Nice try, but to me, money is secondary to function. Nice dodge! >>I rather would pay appropriate maintenance for a product that is enhanced with features (as it was in the first few years when I had purchased it) than to pay a lesser annual maintenance for a dormant product! Ah the good old days of Scott Perry. Let's not forget you are paying less for the product maintenance today than you were 5 years ago. Dormant ? or not the fixes and features you want? >>However, I'm NOT willing to pay a company just so that they can pursue OTHER technical, legal and marketing ventures INSTEAD of enhancing the product. The problem with Declude is that they lost focus - this instance makes this painfully obvious! What are you talking about ? >>Let's get real. I remember looking at your web site a while ago and seeing a huge roster of "management". I also remember web site project and other products being launched and initating legal actions. Here's what you >>need Start laying off managers and other supervisory staff, cut the retainers for your attorneys, etc. and don't stop until you have enough money to finally pay ONE full time developer that actually works on continually >>enhancing the product we are all paying for and gets as much done as the original author of the product did for YEARS. Once caught up with 3 years of backlog, then sell me the upgrade!) >>You don't need "additional" personnel - you to need replace overhead-personnel with production personnel. Wrong. Declude is a separate company from DNSStuff. Our (Declude) revenues are solely committed to maintaining and growing this company. >>I suspect the problem is not "lack" of funds but "diversion" of it. Oh wait. that's a good one. I think the best way to answer this just is to say your suspicion is incorrect. Finaly the purpose for these lists is mostly for tech questions and assisting other users. Your initial posts about AVG were fine, but if you want to get into what you "think" Declude should be doing as a company either email me or call me directly. David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> dbar...@declude.com From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:12 PM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sensitivity: Personal Hi, Oh, now you really got me going. >> Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error as with this specific example << The problem is not the hard-coded expiration itself. Clearly, when this API (including the hardcoded expiry) was originally implemented, the fact that there was an expiry was a known fact to that developer - cause (s)he added it. Whoever wrote this API implementation simply was too lazy to properly handle and report on the condition that absolutely was going to occur with 100% certainty on 4/10. That's a programming 101 and this flaw must be fixed, not "discussed". It's when an Anti-Virus product doesn't report that it has decided to stop detecting viruses. >> how much more are you prepared to pay for your service agreement << Nice try, but to me, money is secondary to function. I rather would pay appropriate maintenance for a product that is enhanced with features (as it was in the first few years when I had purchased it) than to pay a lesser annual maintenance for a dormant product! However, I'm NOT willing to pay a company just so that they can pursue OTHER technical, legal and marketing ventures INSTEAD of enhancing the product. The problem with Declude is that they lost focus - this instance makes this painfully obvious! >> increase our prices dramatically so we can hire more developers << Let's get real. I remember looking at your web site a while ago and seeing a huge roster of "management". I also remember web s
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
>> Darin Cox said: >> that the AVG API was no longer performing scans? > David Barker said: > Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error as with this specific example. Is this true? Has my Declude virus scanner been inoperable? My Declude logs look OK, but I guess that's what you're talking about? What's the deal? How can I detect this misbehavior, if indeed it did occur? -- Michael Cummins --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Hi, Oh, now you really got me going. >> Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error as with this specific example << The problem is not the hard-coded expiration itself. Clearly, when this API (including the hardcoded expiry) was originally implemented, the fact that there was an expiry was a known fact to that developer - cause (s)he added it. Whoever wrote this API implementation simply was too lazy to properly handle and report on the condition that absolutely was going to occur with 100% certainty on 4/10. That's a programming 101 and this flaw must be fixed, not "discussed". It's when an Anti-Virus product doesn't report that it has decided to stop detecting viruses. >> how much more are you prepared to pay for your service agreement << Nice try, but to me, money is secondary to function. I rather would pay appropriate maintenance for a product that is enhanced with features (as it was in the first few years when I had purchased it) than to pay a lesser annual maintenance for a dormant product! However, I'm NOT willing to pay a company just so that they can pursue OTHER technical, legal and marketing ventures INSTEAD of enhancing the product. The problem with Declude is that they lost focus - this instance makes this painfully obvious! >> increase our prices dramatically so we can hire more developers << Let's get real. I remember looking at your web site a while ago and seeing a huge roster of "management". I also remember web site project and other products being launched and initating legal actions. Here's what you need: Start laying off managers and other supervisory staff, cut the retainers for your attorneys, etc. and don't stop until you have enough money to finally pay ONE full time developer that actually works on continually enhancing the product we are all paying for and gets as much done as the original author of the product did for YEARS. Once caught up with 3 years of backlog, then sell me the upgrade!) You don't need "additional" personnel - you to need replace overhead-personnel with production personnel. I suspect the problem is not "lack" of funds but "diversion" of it. Best Regards, Andy From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:07 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Sensitivity: Personal Andy, a. Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error as with this specific example. What happened here is not the norm but an exception. It was not our choice to hard code the expiration date but a requirement from AVG. In this instance the specific persons who we had been working with at AVG are no longer with the company and the process of having this renewed took longer than usual. b. I am not sure if you are being facetious, but if it makes you feel better, sure you can schedule a reminder for me, please email me at least 3 month prior of the new expiration date 2010-12-31 c. Yes AVG was not working as it should have been since 2009-04-10 I agree with you - this is totally unacceptable, intolerable, painful and should not be brushed aside lightly. You are correct in your observations, we should increase our prices dramatically so we can hire more developers to ensure unfortunate incidents like this don't happen again. Considering the market and what other vendors charge how much more are you prepared to pay for your service agreement so that we can meet this type of requirement ? David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> dbar...@declude.com From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:08 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Importance: High Sensitivity: Personal Hi, Dave - so now that we have a working Declude Virus again, what can be done to prevent this from recurring. a) Apparently Declude Virus has no error tracking in place at all - otherwise it would have REPORTED to us (or your own Declude to your own mail server) that the AVG API was no longer performing scans? b) Do the customers need to set a follow-up reminder for December 2010, which is when your new renewed AVG license will expire? The old DecludeProc had THIS AVG License String: LicBeg, Ver=1.0, Name="Declude", Exp=2009-04-10 So this implies, that the product was inoperable since April 10th for every customer because Declude didn't obtain a new annual AVG license and had to wait a few days for this "transaction&quo
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Darin, I accept your constructive criticism. With regard to the situation; 1. We recognize that this was a serious failure 2. The issue was highlighted and resolved in the quickest possible time 3. Procedural steps have been put in place to ensure that this does not happen again. 4. This was an unfortunate circumstance and I understand the frustration on the part of Declude customers 5. We make every effort to meet the needs of our customers My statement regarding increased prices has less to do with this current problem as it has to do with moving forward and preventing issues like this in the future. More $ means more resources which means more can be done which equates to less risk in all areas. Declude has given good service, value for money and a product that works for minimum $. I understand that the expectation is always more for less, however if customers expect more than what is currently being delivered then I have to ask the question, in clear, open and honest communication.. "Mr/s Customer" how much more are you willing to pay so that we can invest in more resources in order to develop a better product? David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> dbar...@declude.com From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:50 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Wow, what a way to respond to a long-time, loyal paying customer! Instead of apologizing for the serious problem and relaying what steps are being taken to avoid it happening again (a simple reminder in the calendar system of your choice would suffice), it's being thrown back in the customer's face. Regarding the question of increasing prices for service agreements, that has no bearing on a current customer who has already paid the fees. Such customers should expect the service they paid for to be rendered. Failure to do so is a breach of agreement on Declude's part. While we are all human and problems can occur, this is a serious failure, and the tone of the response being putative instead of apologetic makes customers less forgiving, not more. To be frank, many customers are asking what they are paying for, when fix and feature requests take months to be released, or not at all. I understand the situation may be frustrating, but it's often best to step back for a moment, vent elsewhere if needed, then respond professionally to customers. Clear, open, and honest communication also helps. Please don't take this email as incendiary. It is meant to be constructive. Darin. - Original Message - From: David Barker <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> To: declude.virus@declude.com Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:07 AM Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Andy, a. Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error as with this specific example. What happened here is not the norm but an exception. It was not our choice to hard code the expiration date but a requirement from AVG. In this instance the specific persons who we had been working with at AVG are no longer with the company and the process of having this renewed took longer than usual. b. I am not sure if you are being facetious, but if it makes you feel better, sure you can schedule a reminder for me, please email me at least 3 month prior of the new expiration date 2010-12-31 c. Yes AVG was not working as it should have been since 2009-04-10 I agree with you - this is totally unacceptable, intolerable, painful and should not be brushed aside lightly. You are correct in your observations, we should increase our prices dramatically so we can hire more developers to ensure unfortunate incidents like this don't happen again. Considering the market and what other vendors charge how much more are you prepared to pay for your service agreement so that we can meet this type of requirement ? David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> dbar...@declude.com From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:08 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Importance: High Sensitivity: Personal Hi, Dave - so now that we have a working Declude Virus again, what can be done to prevent this from recurring. a) Apparently Declude Virus has no error tracking in place at all - otherwise it would have REPORTED to us (or your own Declude to your own mail server) that the AVG API was no long
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Hi David, I have to agree with Darin on this one. Take some deep breaths before replying to emails mate. Kindest Regards Craig Edmonds 123 Marbella Internet W: <http://www.123marbella.com/> www.123marbella.com E : <mailto:cr...@123marbella.com> cr...@123marbella.com From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Darin Cox Sent: 03 June 2009 17:50 To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Wow, what a way to respond to a long-time, loyal paying customer! Instead of apologizing for the serious problem and relaying what steps are being taken to avoid it happening again (a simple reminder in the calendar system of your choice would suffice), it's being thrown back in the customer's face. Regarding the question of increasing prices for service agreements, that has no bearing on a current customer who has already paid the fees. Such customers should expect the service they paid for to be rendered. Failure to do so is a breach of agreement on Declude's part. While we are all human and problems can occur, this is a serious failure, and the tone of the response being putative instead of apologetic makes customers less forgiving, not more. To be frank, many customers are asking what they are paying for, when fix and feature requests take months to be released, or not at all. I understand the situation may be frustrating, but it's often best to step back for a moment, vent elsewhere if needed, then respond professionally to customers. Clear, open, and honest communication also helps. Please don't take this email as incendiary. It is meant to be constructive. Darin. - Original Message - From: David Barker <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> To: declude.virus@declude.com Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:07 AM Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Andy, a. Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error as with this specific example. What happened here is not the norm but an exception. It was not our choice to hard code the expiration date but a requirement from AVG. In this instance the specific persons who we had been working with at AVG are no longer with the company and the process of having this renewed took longer than usual. b. I am not sure if you are being facetious, but if it makes you feel better, sure you can schedule a reminder for me, please email me at least 3 month prior of the new expiration date 2010-12-31 c. Yes AVG was not working as it should have been since 2009-04-10 I agree with you - this is totally unacceptable, intolerable, painful and should not be brushed aside lightly. You are correct in your observations, we should increase our prices dramatically so we can hire more developers to ensure unfortunate incidents like this don't happen again. Considering the market and what other vendors charge how much more are you prepared to pay for your service agreement so that we can meet this type of requirement ? David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> dbar...@declude.com From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:08 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Importance: High Sensitivity: Personal Hi, Dave - so now that we have a working Declude Virus again, what can be done to prevent this from recurring. a) Apparently Declude Virus has no error tracking in place at all - otherwise it would have REPORTED to us (or your own Declude to your own mail server) that the AVG API was no longer performing scans? b) Do the customers need to set a follow-up reminder for December 2010, which is when your new renewed AVG license will expire? The old DecludeProc had THIS AVG License String: LicBeg, Ver=1.0, Name="Declude", Exp=2009-04-10 So this implies, that the product was inoperable since April 10th for every customer because Declude didn't obtain a new annual AVG license and had to wait a few days for this "transaction" to complete? That means the product was unusable for 13% of the year? This can't just be brushed aside quietly. Best Regards, Andy --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsu
Re: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Wow, what a way to respond to a long-time, loyal paying customer! Instead of apologizing for the serious problem and relaying what steps are being taken to avoid it happening again (a simple reminder in the calendar system of your choice would suffice), it's being thrown back in the customer's face. Regarding the question of increasing prices for service agreements, that has no bearing on a current customer who has already paid the fees. Such customers should expect the service they paid for to be rendered. Failure to do so is a breach of agreement on Declude's part. While we are all human and problems can occur, this is a serious failure, and the tone of the response being putative instead of apologetic makes customers less forgiving, not more. To be frank, many customers are asking what they are paying for, when fix and feature requests take months to be released, or not at all. I understand the situation may be frustrating, but it's often best to step back for a moment, vent elsewhere if needed, then respond professionally to customers. Clear, open, and honest communication also helps. Please don't take this email as incendiary. It is meant to be constructive. Darin. - Original Message - From: David Barker To: declude.virus@declude.com Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:07 AM Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Andy, a. Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error as with this specific example. What happened here is not the norm but an exception. It was not our choice to hard code the expiration date but a requirement from AVG. In this instance the specific persons who we had been working with at AVG are no longer with the company and the process of having this renewed took longer than usual. b. I am not sure if you are being facetious, but if it makes you feel better, sure you can schedule a reminder for me, please email me at least 3 month prior of the new expiration date 2010-12-31 c. Yes AVG was not working as it should have been since 2009-04-10 I agree with you - this is totally unacceptable, intolerable, painful and should not be brushed aside lightly. You are correct in your observations, we should increase our prices dramatically so we can hire more developers to ensure unfortunate incidents like this don't happen again. Considering the market and what other vendors charge how much more are you prepared to pay for your service agreement so that we can meet this type of requirement ? David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax dbar...@declude.com From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:08 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Importance: High Sensitivity: Personal Hi, Dave - so now that we have a working Declude Virus again, what can be done to prevent this from recurring. a) Apparently Declude Virus has no error tracking in place at all - otherwise it would have REPORTED to us (or your own Declude to your own mail server) that the AVG API was no longer performing scans? b) Do the customers need to set a follow-up reminder for December 2010, which is when your new renewed AVG license will expire? The old DecludeProc had THIS AVG License String: LicBeg, Ver=1.0, Name="Declude", Exp=2009-04-10 So this implies, that the product was inoperable since April 10th for every customer because Declude didn't obtain a new annual AVG license and had to wait a few days for this "transaction" to complete? That means the product was unusable for 13% of the year? This can't just be brushed aside quietly. Best Regards, Andy --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Hey Tim, I'm out of hte office at this time but I'll give you a call on this when I return. Troy -- Original Message -- From: "David Barker" Reply-To: declude.virus@declude.com Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:07:24 -0400 >Andy, > > > >a. Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error >as with this specific example. What happened here is not the norm but an >exception. It was not our choice to hard code the expiration date but a >requirement from AVG. In this instance the specific persons who we had been >working with at AVG are no longer with the company and the process of having >this renewed took longer than usual. > > > >b. I am not sure if you are being facetious, but if it makes you feel >better, sure you can schedule a reminder for me, please email me at least 3 >month prior of the new expiration date 2010-12-31 > > > >c. Yes AVG was not working as it should have been since 2009-04-10 I >agree with you - this is totally unacceptable, intolerable, painful and >should not be brushed aside lightly. You are correct in your observations, >we should increase our prices dramatically so we can hire more developers to >ensure unfortunate incidents like this don't happen again. Considering the >market and what other vendors charge how much more are you prepared to pay >for your service agreement so that we can meet this type of requirement ? > > > >David Barker >VP Operations Declude >Your Email security is our business >978.499.2933 office >978.988.1311 fax > <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> dbar...@declude.com > > > > > > > >From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy >Schmidt >Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:08 AM >To: declude.virus@declude.com >Subject: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? >Importance: High >Sensitivity: Personal > > > >Hi, > > > >Dave - so now that we have a working Declude Virus again, what can be done >to prevent this from recurring. > > > >a) Apparently Declude Virus has no error tracking in place at all - >otherwise it would have REPORTED to us (or your own Declude to your own mail >server) that the AVG API was no longer performing scans? > > > >b) Do the customers need to set a follow-up reminder for December >2010, which is when your new renewed AVG license will expire? > > > >The old DecludeProc had THIS AVG License String: > > > >LicBeg, Ver=1.0, Name="Declude", Exp=2009-04-10 > > > >So this implies, that the product was inoperable since April 10th for every >customer because Declude didn't obtain a new annual AVG license and had to >wait a few days for this "transaction" to complete? That means the product >was unusable for 13% of the year? > > > >This can't just be brushed aside quietly. > > > >Best Regards, > >Andy > > >--- >This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To >unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and >type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus". The archives can be found >at http://www.mail-archive.com. > > > >--- >This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To >unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and >type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found >at http://www.mail-archive.com. > -- Troy D. Hilton Serveon, Inc. 302-529-1961 thil...@serveon.net -- --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Andy, a. Declude Virus does not have a built in system to report this error as with this specific example. What happened here is not the norm but an exception. It was not our choice to hard code the expiration date but a requirement from AVG. In this instance the specific persons who we had been working with at AVG are no longer with the company and the process of having this renewed took longer than usual. b. I am not sure if you are being facetious, but if it makes you feel better, sure you can schedule a reminder for me, please email me at least 3 month prior of the new expiration date 2010-12-31 c. Yes AVG was not working as it should have been since 2009-04-10 I agree with you - this is totally unacceptable, intolerable, painful and should not be brushed aside lightly. You are correct in your observations, we should increase our prices dramatically so we can hire more developers to ensure unfortunate incidents like this don't happen again. Considering the market and what other vendors charge how much more are you prepared to pay for your service agreement so that we can meet this type of requirement ? David Barker VP Operations Declude Your Email security is our business 978.499.2933 office 978.988.1311 fax <mailto:dbar...@declude.com> dbar...@declude.com From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:08 AM To: declude.virus@declude.com Subject: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year? Importance: High Sensitivity: Personal Hi, Dave - so now that we have a working Declude Virus again, what can be done to prevent this from recurring. a) Apparently Declude Virus has no error tracking in place at all - otherwise it would have REPORTED to us (or your own Declude to your own mail server) that the AVG API was no longer performing scans? b) Do the customers need to set a follow-up reminder for December 2010, which is when your new renewed AVG license will expire? The old DecludeProc had THIS AVG License String: LicBeg, Ver=1.0, Name="Declude", Exp=2009-04-10 So this implies, that the product was inoperable since April 10th for every customer because Declude didn't obtain a new annual AVG license and had to wait a few days for this "transaction" to complete? That means the product was unusable for 13% of the year? This can't just be brushed aside quietly. Best Regards, Andy --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
[Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Hi, Dave - so now that we have a working Declude Virus again, what can be done to prevent this from recurring. a) Apparently Declude Virus has no error tracking in place at all - otherwise it would have REPORTED to us (or your own Declude to your own mail server) that the AVG API was no longer performing scans? b) Do the customers need to set a follow-up reminder for December 2010, which is when your new renewed AVG license will expire? The old DecludeProc had THIS AVG License String: LicBeg, Ver=1.0, Name="Declude", Exp=2009-04-10 So this implies, that the product was inoperable since April 10th for every customer because Declude didn't obtain a new annual AVG license and had to wait a few days for this "transaction" to complete? That means the product was unusable for 13% of the year? This can't just be brushed aside quietly. Best Regards, Andy --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
