date:20110201

Hi Bernhard,

Very reasonable sounding.  Your comparison was extremely helpful in
visualization.  I agree that 12pt doesn't work really and that 15 dots
aligned can be used sparingly.


On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Bernhard Dippold <
bernh...@familie-dippold.at> wrote:

> I tried both positionings in three sizes (equivalent to 12px, 15px and
> 18px), so I'd like to ask you, where we should define the minimal logo size
> (and update the wiki page accordingly).
>
These two pages at a minimum should contain instructions for use of the
logo:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Logo

I am not sure that any other pages would be necessary.  (All pages the
discuss logo usage link back to Marketing/Branding).



> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Minimal_logo_size_comparison.png
> If you work on your own artwork containing our logo, it should not be
> smaller than 98x30 px (nearly about 18pt).
>
> For use-cases where extra small logos are requested, we recommend to use
> the pixel adjusted version of an 82x25px logo (about 15 pt).
>
> Does this sound reasonable?

Yup.

Cheers,
Jaron

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Design Team Kick-Off Step 2: Current Status of Work and Collaboration

Hi all!

Am Dienstag, den 01.02.2011, 01:11 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
> Christoph Noack schrieb:
[...]
> > Current Status of Work and Collaboration:
> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Kick-Off/CurrentWorkStatus
> 
> Thank you very much for summing up what has already been done
> (more than I thought of) showing us the way we want to go on.

Some - maybe dumb - questions, since I've seen that we had roughly 250
"visits" on the wiki page above.

Is there anything that requires clarification? Is it sufficient to
"jump-start" with the next topics, or do you require some more
information? I'm just wondering ... it's so quiet at the moment ;-)

Cheers,
Christoph


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[libreoffice-design] Re: Design Team Kick-Off Step 2: Current Status of Work and Collaboration

2011-02-01 Thread Miguel Boto

Hi Christoph,

On Tuesday, 1 February, 2011 at 6:44 PM, Christoph Noack wrote:
Hi all!
> 
> Is there anything that requires clarification? Is it sufficient to
> "jump-start" with the next topics, or do you require some more
> information? I'm just wondering ... it's so quiet at the moment ;-)
> 
> Cheers,
> Christoph

Looks clear and concise to me. I think the Kick-Off action was a great idea and 
a good way to introduce the Design Team. I´m just waiting the adequate step to 
introduce myself since this one doesn´t require any action. That´s probably the 
reason everyone is so quiet...

Cheers,
Miguel B.

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Proposal for the "Cross-Reference" dialog

2011-02-01 Thread Paulo José


Hi Björn!

On 30-01-2011 13:47, Björn Balazs wrote:

First of all: Thank you - great work!
Your mocks point us to the unsolved fundations I wanted to work on today, but
unfortunately won't come to. But I will spend a couple of hours in a train
tomorrow, so I am optimistic I get to some results then.

The fundations we need to understand, before we can actually find a really
good interface solution is a clustering of the different types of fields. You
have done the clustering by "New" and "Existing". I am not 100% convinced this
is the best clustering, because it is too general.
Well, basically I understand there are 2 general actions related to 
fields from the user point of view: create and use them. It's my first 
thinking when needing a reference or other "meta" information about the 
document that I'm working.


When you need to create a field, there are different ways to achieve 
this depending of the type field. When you need to use a field, you 
*know* that it already exist, so its an automatic choice to avoid the 
first option "set a new field". And for any type of field you wanna to 
insert, it's the same workflow: you must 1. find the field, 2. choose 
how display the field information.



I would like to find someting between perhaps 5 to 10 (ideal would be 7 -
remember the limitations in the human short term memory) categories, the user
can decide in the first step.
Well, the limitation of 7 rememberable of the human short term memory is 
a controversial issue... It seems to depend of context and other 
circumstantial factors. If it is possible to limit the choice to a minor 
amount of possibilities, keeping it clear, why not do it? :/ Even more 
if you think in the future additions of new fields... Keeping the first 
step easy helps to make the next steps clearer.

Each presenting again 5 to 10 fields that in the
next step can be configured (would give us room for up to 100 different types
of fields we can add to LibO, so making this a sustainable solution for
whatever kind of fields will be added in the future).

My main problem here is, that I do not understand all types of fields
available - which would be very helpful if trying to find a decent
clustering...
Yeah, this is a problem to me too. But I try to think in a field just 
how an information. The user knows what wants and knows the computer has 
or can be have this information. The point is how to say to the 
computer: 1. which information you want, 2. what to do with this 
information.


1. Which information you want?
- I want a information the computer already knows or I want [can to use] 
a new information

2. What to do with this information?
- I want to show it in this or other way.

From this point of view ("Which?" & "What?") is possible that the 
approach of Create/Use ("What?") and then choose the field type 
("Which?") seems to be reversed, but if you perceive that some 
information can't be create in a dialog (like a paragraph per example), 
reversing them is a most efficient way to present these questions.

Additionally we should introduce some comfort functionallity like a filter
mechanism, recently used or perhaps even favorite fields for quick retrival of
the wanted fields.
For sure its a great idea. Filtering by type or pattern matching, 
auto-complete the search, recently used shortcuts already in the first 
step (saving the last inputs for all steps), and grouping references are 
good ways to go! :D  But we will need a big support from the developers 
and would be great have their help to know all the current possibilities.

Summing it up: Version 2 is much better than version 1, but still leaves room
for further improvement.
 I'd like to hear more opinions about it. I still think having a simple 
choice in the first step is better. :/ But of couse, my thinking is very 
much based in the *bad* only way I've imagined to display the Step 1 in 
the version 2. I hope we can find a better way.

Ok, more - including some mocks and a suggestion for a clustering - hopefully
tomorrow.
We are doing big steps to the right direction. Its good when the doubts 
come up in the beginning!


See you, Björn! :)
~Paulo

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates

2011-02-01 Thread Paulo José


It's a great idea! I think some steps to start this should be:
1. Choose some main topics to cover with the templates, for all types of 
presentation: school, enterprise, marketing...
2. Look for the real presentations in each topics. There are many sites 
of slide sharing, when you can find the most rated presentations. I 
gives the feeling of what is needed to achieve in each template.

3. Work hard to create the best templates in a office suite ever! :D

Count with me,
~Paulo

I ever start with the Ubuntu one... :P

On 31-01-2011 01:45, Kevin Soviero wrote:
As I am sure most of you have noticed by now, the default set of 
templates from OOo Impress is terrible.  I was wondering if I were to 
make a set (lets say 10 - 20) of really high quality templates for 
Impress, if we could get them included by default?





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Blogger / casatwain.com

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates

Hi Kevin,

I had attempted a long time ago a similar project for OOo before I became
overwhelmed by other commitments and had to drop the topic.  One minor issue
I met with was finding templates that satisfied the design community while
satisfying user expectations.  What I mean is, users (according to the
design community) often make horrible presentations; however, users expect
certain features to be available in their design templates.

 I think we could use a LibreOffice Impress
template that could be very helpful for the community to make LibO
presentations.  Features could include using the paper tab (the top right of
the logo) as bullets at the primary level, the LibO logo perhaps in the top
left and then of course some nice and simple design background.  (These are
just suggestions you can do whatever you like, of course).  Its not
explicitly related to your topic but it could be really helpful for branding
and the like if you have the time.

Cheers,
Jaron

2011/1/31 Paulo José 

> It's a great idea! I think some steps to start this should be:
> 1. Choose some main topics to cover with the templates, for all types of
> presentation: school, enterprise, marketing...
> 2. Look for the real presentations in each topics. There are many sites of
> slide sharing, when you can find the most rated presentations. I gives the
> feeling of what is needed to achieve in each template.
> 3. Work hard to create the best templates in a office suite ever! :D
>
> Count with me,
> ~Paulo
>
> I ever start with the Ubuntu one... :P
>
>
> On 31-01-2011 01:45, Kevin Soviero wrote:
>
>> As I am sure most of you have noticed by now, the default set of templates
>> from OOo Impress is terrible.  I was wondering if I were to make a set (lets
>> say 10 - 20) of really high quality templates for Impress, if we could get
>> them included by default?
>>
>>
>
> --
> Paulo José O. Amaro
> Computer Science Student
> Federal University of São João del-Rei
> WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior
> Blogger / casatwain.com
>
>
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>

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Re:[libreoffice-design] Proposal for the "Cross-Reference" dialog

2011-02-01 Thread Björn Balazs

Hi Paulo, Cederic, all,

I have added the first attempt of organizing the content of the Cross-
Reference dialogue. Please review and give feedback:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Bjoern

At the moment I do not understand the areas "Functions", "Databases" and 
"Variables" - but I also have not spent too much time on them. My intent was 
to structure the "easy" data as a basis for the dialogue design. All wording 
is temporary.

Best,
Björn
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[libreoffice-design] Proposal for "Saving Information" icons on Status Bar

2011-02-01 Thread Paulo José


Hello everybody!

Some days ago, Christoph suggested me [1] to give a try to an already 
knew issue, related to icons used to show saving information on the 
status bar. The current icon shows an exclamation mark on a document 
when the document have not saved changes, and some people think may be 
better ways to represent this status.


Looking up the past discussions about this issue to understand what was 
done, I found some interesting links [2] [3].


So, based on what was discussed, I tried to create new icons to this 
behavior, based on the initial mimetype icons style. I keep two version, 
since the current icon is 14px tall, but a source [4] says the status 
bar icons must be 11px tall. I used some different (*) character to 
follow the suggestion of some people.


Versions on 16x14px: 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-16x14px.svg
Versions on 14x11px: 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-14x11px.svg


I hope it can be useful in some way. :)

Best regards,
~Paulo

[1] "Small Icon Artwork Project (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] 
KickingOff the LibreOffice Design Team)"

http://go.mail-archive.com/ZXUvilyqV8RdwiU-erOUILtRjfA
[2] "[Visual Design] Request for Icon Artwork (was: Re: [Libreoffice] 
[UX] LO status bar annoyances)"

http://www.mail-archive.com/design@libreoffice.org/msg00087.html
[3] "HackWeek – Minor polish"
http://kohei.us/2009/07/27/hackweek-minor-polish/
[4] "New feature icons: Zoom & Scaling Slider"
http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_icons_zoomslider.html#iconszoom
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Federal University of São João del-Rei
WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior
Blogger / casatwain.com

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates

Hi Jaron, hi Kevin, hi Paulo!

Kevin, creating good templates is a tough job ... so if you want to
start, that's more than appreciated ;-)

Am Dienstag, den 01.02.2011, 15:50 -0500 schrieb Jaron Kuppers:
>  I think we could use a LibreOffice Impress
> template that could be very helpful for the community to make LibO
> presentations.  Features could include using the paper tab (the top right of
> the logo) as bullets at the primary level, the LibO logo perhaps in the top
> left and then of course some nice and simple design background.  (These are
> just suggestions you can do whatever you like, of course).  Its not
> explicitly related to your topic but it could be really helpful for branding
> and the like if you have the time. 

We started a template some weeks ago, now it really needs some tweaking
- the colors are a bit outdated, the design doesn't fit to the recent
website / branding overhaul, but at least, it's there :-)

Kevin (or anybody else) if you want to pick this up, more information
can be found here (see Official Presentation Template):
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Work_Items


An older blog posting describing the template:
http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/10/libreoffice-presentation-template-first.html

Cheers,
Christoph




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Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates

Hi Christoph, Kevin, Paulo,

Kevin, if you would prefer to focus on your general templates I would be
more than happy to modify the existing LibO Official Presentation Template.
Please let me know your preference (I am amenable either way).

Christoph, I must have completely missed that in your work items list...  I
even explicitly looked for it... go figure.  Glad you set me straight. :-)

Cheers,
Jaron



On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Christoph Noack wrote:

> Hi Jaron, hi Kevin, hi Paulo!
>
> Kevin, creating good templates is a tough job ... so if you want to
> start, that's more than appreciated ;-)
>
> Am Dienstag, den 01.02.2011, 15:50 -0500 schrieb Jaron Kuppers:
> >  I think we could use a LibreOffice Impress
> > template that could be very helpful for the community to make LibO
> > presentations.  Features could include using the paper tab (the top right
> of
> > the logo) as bullets at the primary level, the LibO logo perhaps in the
> top
> > left and then of course some nice and simple design background.  (These
> are
> > just suggestions you can do whatever you like, of course).  Its not
> > explicitly related to your topic but it could be really helpful for
> branding
> > and the like if you have the time.
>
> We started a template some weeks ago, now it really needs some tweaking
> - the colors are a bit outdated, the design doesn't fit to the recent
> website / branding overhaul, but at least, it's there :-)
>
> Kevin (or anybody else) if you want to pick this up, more information
> can be found here (see Official Presentation Template):
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Work_Items
>
>
> An older blog posting describing the template:
>
> http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/10/libreoffice-presentation-template-first.html
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>
>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Proposal for "Saving Information" icons on Status Bar

Hi Paulo,

It looks like a good start.  I will give you more feedback later, (I am busy
at work).

Cheers,
Jaron


2011/2/1 Paulo José 

> Hello everybody!
>
> Some days ago, Christoph suggested me [1] to give a try to an already knew
> issue, related to icons used to show saving information on the status bar.
> The current icon shows an exclamation mark on a document when the document
> have not saved changes, and some people think may be better ways to
> represent this status.
>
> Looking up the past discussions about this issue to understand what was
> done, I found some interesting links [2] [3].
>
> So, based on what was discussed, I tried to create new icons to this
> behavior, based on the initial mimetype icons style. I keep two version,
> since the current icon is 14px tall, but a source [4] says the status bar
> icons must be 11px tall. I used some different (*) character to follow the
> suggestion of some people.
>
> Versions on 16x14px:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-16x14px.svg
> Versions on 14x11px:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-14x11px.svg
>
> I hope it can be useful in some way. :)
>
> Best regards,
> ~Paulo
>
> [1] "Small Icon Artwork Project (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] Kicking
>  Off the LibreOffice Design Team)"
> http://go.mail-archive.com/ZXUvilyqV8RdwiU-erOUILtRjfA
> [2] "[Visual Design] Request for Icon Artwork (was: Re: [Libreoffice] [UX]
> LO status bar annoyances)"
> http://www.mail-archive.com/design@libreoffice.org/msg00087.html
> [3] "HackWeek – Minor polish"
> http://kohei.us/2009/07/27/hackweek-minor-polish/
> [4] "New feature icons: Zoom & Scaling Slider"
> http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_icons_zoomslider.html#iconszoom
> --
> Paulo José O. Amaro
> Computer Science Student
> Federal University of São João del-Rei
> WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior
> Blogger / casatwain.com
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to 
> design+h...@libreoffice.org
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Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Proposal for the "Cross-Reference" dialog

2011-02-01 Thread Björn Balazs

Hi Paolo,

Am Montag, 31. Januar 2011, 23:20:18 schrieb Paulo José:
> Hi Björn!
> 
> On 30-01-2011 13:47, Björn Balazs wrote:
> > First of all: Thank you - great work!
> > Your mocks point us to the unsolved fundations I wanted to work on
> > today, but unfortunately won't come to. But I will spend a couple of
> > hours in a train tomorrow, so I am optimistic I get to some results
> > then.
> > 
> > The fundations we need to understand, before we can actually find a
> > really good interface solution is a clustering of the different types
> > of fields. You have done the clustering by "New" and "Existing". I am
> > not 100% convinced this is the best clustering, because it is too
> > general.
> 
> Well, basically I understand there are 2 general actions related to
> fields from the user point of view: create and use them. It's my first
> thinking when needing a reference or other "meta" information about the
> document that I'm working.

I agree. This is the very basic differentiation. I followed that in the 
mindmap. But I alos think this is not the most relevant differentiation for 
about 99% of the use-cases. Because you can only create References, Bookmarks 
(and I guess variables and stuff I do not yet understand). Nearly no users - 
except from power users - will use this features. So this functionallity needs 
to be there but should step a little to the back.

> When you need to create a field, there are different ways to achieve
> this depending of the type field. When you need to use a field, you
> *know* that it already exist, so its an automatic choice to avoid the
> first option "set a new field". And for any type of field you wanna to
> insert, it's the same workflow: you must 1. find the field, 2. choose
> how display the field information.

It is problematic that there are s many fields. This makes it hard to find 
the field you want. This is way I tried to do some categorizastion of the 
fields.

> > I would like to find someting between perhaps 5 to 10 (ideal would be 7
> > -
> > remember the limitations in the human short term memory) categories, the
> > user can decide in the first step.
> 
> Well, the limitation of 7 rememberable of the human short term memory is
> a controversial issue... It seems to depend of context and other
> circumstantial factors. 

It it one of the foundations of cognitive psychologiy. If you should have any 
information that I do not have, please give it to me! You can of course use 
methods of chunking to extend this information, but the number of 7+-2 simply 
is the capacity of your short term memory. No discussions I know of :) (Ok, 
can be less, e.g. when you drunk a lot of alcohol - but not talking about any 
clinical aspects)

> If it is possible to limit the choice to a minor
> amount of possibilities, keeping it clear, why not do it? :/ Even more
> if you think in the future additions of new fields... Keeping the first
> step easy helps to make the next steps clearer.

If you take too few categories, the tree gets very deep. This is not good 
either.

> > Each presenting again 5 to 10 fields that in the
> > next step can be configured (would give us room for up to 100 different
> > types of fields we can add to LibO, so making this a sustainable
> > solution for whatever kind of fields will be added in the future).
> > 
> > My main problem here is, that I do not understand all types of fields
> > available - which would be very helpful if trying to find a decent
> > clustering...
> 
> Yeah, this is a problem to me too. But I try to think in a field just
> how an information. 

I suggest to rethink the whole dialogue. And we can only find the best 
solution if we understand what users do in here and what they use the fields 
for. I think the following is true, but I am not sure that is all:

> The user knows what wants and knows the computer has
> or can be have this information. The point is how to say to the
> computer: 1. which information you want, 2. what to do with this
> information.
> 
> 1. Which information you want?
> - I want a information the computer already knows or I want [can to use]
> a new information
> 2. What to do with this information?
> - I want to show it in this or other way.
> 
>  From this point of view ("Which?" & "What?") is possible that the
> approach of Create/Use ("What?") and then choose the field type
> ("Which?") seems to be reversed, but if you perceive that some
> information can't be create in a dialog (like a paragraph per example),
> reversing them is a most efficient way to present these questions.

see above.

> > Additionally we should introduce some comfort functionallity like a
> > filter mechanism, recently used or perhaps even favorite fields for
> > quick retrival of the wanted fields.
> 
> For sure its a great idea. Filtering by type or pattern matching,
> auto-complete the search, recently used shortcuts already in the first
> step (saving the last inputs for all steps), and grouping references are
>

Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates

Hi Jaron!

Am Dienstag, den 01.02.2011, 16:09 -0500 schrieb Jaron Kuppers:
> Christoph, I must have completely missed that in your work items
> list...  I
> even explicitly looked for it... go figure.  Glad you set me
> straight. :-) 

Just one small correction, it's "our work items" list ;-)))

If you need any help, let me know!

Cheers,
Christoph


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates

2011-02-01 Thread Kevin Soviero

Alright, How about we carve template design up into sections, one (or 
more) for each of us...


For example, I am good at making the background (not just cause its easy 
;)), and I can coordinate colors.  We need someone to do the technical 
stuff (title placement, etc...) , and we need to come up with the 
subjects to base the templates on.  Your list is a very good start though...


Any other jobs you can think of?

On 01/31/2011 08:43 PM, Paulo José wrote:

It's a great idea! I think some steps to start this should be:
1. Choose some main topics to cover with the templates, for all types 
of presentation: school, enterprise, marketing...
2. Look for the real presentations in each topics. There are many 
sites of slide sharing, when you can find the most rated 
presentations. I gives the feeling of what is needed to achieve in 
each template.

3. Work hard to create the best templates in a office suite ever! :D

Count with me,
~Paulo

I ever start with the Ubuntu one... :P

On 31-01-2011 01:45, Kevin Soviero wrote:
As I am sure most of you have noticed by now, the default set of 
templates from OOo Impress is terrible.  I was wondering if I were to 
make a set (lets say 10 - 20) of really high quality templates for 
Impress, if we could get them included by default?







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Email: ksovi...@gmail.com 
Phone: (512) 672-9641

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Banner for FOSDEM II

Hi Cor, all,

(CC'ing Cor on his request)
Cor Nouws schrieb:

Hi all,

Recently I send a request for a banner for FOSDEM, next weekend.
But I just realised that I am not subscribed to the list, so pls cc me :-)

I would like to print a/some banner(s), but with vertical orientation.

It is my intention to hang them somewhere high in the area, close to our
booth ;-)

After my first mail I received a friendly mail with a file, but I should
have been a bit more verbose about my ideas, request.

I've done a rough draft here:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Banner_Rough_Ideas_fromcornouws.png
Oops ;-)
#1 is clear.

...but boring ;-)

#1A: could be done with text in a curve?

Possibly, but I don't like it very much either - too less content IMHO.

#2: could also print just 2 or 3 default size papers en
bind them under each other

This might really be a great idea - and easily to create (you just need
strong paper and rings to combine them).

You would not be limited to 1 m height, but you could extend the line
depending on the space above the booth...

#3: the design from
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Kick-Off/CurrentWorkStatus#LibreOffice_and_BrOffice_Product_Artwork

I like this design more than #1 or #1A, but I don't know about the scale
of your banner.

So, that are ideas that are from complicated (#1A), to 'done right now'
(#3).

What do you people think, are able to do?

I can't do tonight, perhaps tomorrow?

My idea is a set of 12 single A4 pages (landscape orientation)

11 containing the letters of L-I-B-R-E-O-F-F-I-C-E together with the new
MimeType icons, the last one should show the logo.

BTW... I need it Friday morning around 9:00 UTC ...

I don't know if anybody else could step in - this would be great!

As Thorsten requested the final version of the MimeType icons ready for
Friday too, I'm sorry that I think this task is more urgent...

NB. since I am not subscribed to this list, pls cc me ;-)

Done...

Best regards

Bernhard

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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!


Hi Thorsten, all,

Thorsten Behrens schrieb:

Bernhard Dippold wrote:

I don't know if any of the other icons need some more work, but we
should be able to finish this task until next week.


[snip]

according to
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan#3.3.1_release the RC
for 3.3.1 will be tagged next Monday, and I'll be at FOSDEM all
weekend - so for any artwork to make it into that release, I'd need
it by tomorrow 18:00 UTC. Is that possible/acceptable?


It's short, but we already did know that we can't wait several weeks, so 
it's okay, I think.


Paulo did a great job in creating and polishing the icons.

What I know is missing: Include Jaron's gear wheels in Paulo's source - 
I'm going to do that right now.


If nobody objects, we should skip the proposed phase of comparing 
alternative proposals - time is short again...


I'll upload the source to the wiki and send the link here when I'm ready.

Any other modifications needed?



I'd then volunteer to extract the stuff into pngs (assuming proper
selection areas are still in place), and split stuff up into
individual files, according to this workflow:

pixelpushercast.blip.tv/file/1075329/

(with a nice script to convert those files into bitmaps here:
http://ladish.org/browser/art/render-bitmaps.rb)


Thanks for taking this task!


(so I'd ask for a short moratorium, and then suggest continue
working on separate files going forward - since it really relieves a
lot of the pain I experience when updating artwork)


Do you want us to work on single source files for each icon?

Or is this meant to leave this version as final and use a new file for 
every update?


Sorry - sometimes my English is not good enough to understand what you mean.

Best regards

Bernhard

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Banner for FOSDEM II


Bernhard Dippold schrieb:

[...]

As Thorsten requested the final version of the MimeType icons ready for
Friday too, I'm sorry that I think this task is more urgent...


oops... Thorsten's deadline is tomorrow already.

So there might be some time on Thursday...
(perhaps - who know what important topics need our hands ;-) )

Best regards

Bernhard

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line

Hi Bernhard, hi all!

Thanks a lot (!) for caring about these icons :-)

Am Montag, den 31.01.2011, 23:17 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
> David Nelson schrieb:
> > The text underneath "LibreOffice" extends beyond the word
> > "LibreOffice" on the right. It doesn't look well-aligned to me. Could
> > you shift it leftwards maybe?

[...]

> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos_right_aligned.png
> (without the white space border indication by a colored background)
> 
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos.png
> 
> All: Which version do you like better?

Since it is very hard to balance all these objects (and you already did
a very good job), I'd like to propose to keep only the text. In this
case the "right aligned" versions, right side (the lower ones) look best
- in my opinion.

My reasons:
  * It already conveys the important message "LibreOffice"
  * It looks a bit more balanced and it might be more versatile
  * In the past, the Document Symbol had been considered (by people
in the community) to belong to TDF instead of LibreOffice - if
we start the Community Branding Process, we might keep it for
TDF

Of course, I'll miss the document symbol ... for other reasons.

Just a question - did anybody propose the text below the logo? I don't
know, but a short "Community" (resized) might look attractive as well,
and is rather neutral.

> What should we propose the SC to declare as official?

Up to you, Bernhard. Thanks for your excellent work!

Cheers,
Christoph


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line

2011-02-01 Thread Mike Houben

I'm having some trouble with the tag line. if we want to add something like 
this it looks to me like randomly put together.
mike

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 01.02.2011 um 23:13 schrieb Christoph Noack :

> Hi Bernhard, hi all!
> 
> Thanks a lot (!) for caring about these icons :-)
> 
> Am Montag, den 31.01.2011, 23:17 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
>> David Nelson schrieb:
>>> The text underneath "LibreOffice" extends beyond the word
>>> "LibreOffice" on the right. It doesn't look well-aligned to me. Could
>>> you shift it leftwards maybe?
> 
> [...]
> 
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos_right_aligned.png
>> (without the white space border indication by a colored background)
>> 
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos.png
>> 
>> All: Which version do you like better?
> 
> Since it is very hard to balance all these objects (and you already did
> a very good job), I'd like to propose to keep only the text. In this
> case the "right aligned" versions, right side (the lower ones) look best
> - in my opinion.
> 
> My reasons:
>  * It already conveys the important message "LibreOffice"
>  * It looks a bit more balanced and it might be more versatile
>  * In the past, the Document Symbol had been considered (by people
>in the community) to belong to TDF instead of LibreOffice - if
>we start the Community Branding Process, we might keep it for
>TDF
> 
> Of course, I'll miss the document symbol ... for other reasons.
> 
> Just a question - did anybody propose the text below the logo? I don't
> know, but a short "Community" (resized) might look attractive as well,
> and is rather neutral.
> 
>> What should we propose the SC to declare as official?
> 
> Up to you, Bernhard. Thanks for your excellent work!
> 
> Cheers,
> Christoph
> 
> 
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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!

Hi Bernhard,

just a short "wh" concerning the icons. I noticed that the large(er)
template icons of Impress feature a darker "rip-off line" - please have
a look:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9MZR46ZEuS8/TURcYGZPRkI/AuE/si2R_93DT_M/s1600/New256pxIcons.png

Could you please correct this as well? Sorry for noticing this a bit
late...

Cheers,
Christoph

Am Dienstag, den 01.02.2011, 23:03 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
> If nobody objects, we should skip the proposed phase of comparing 
> alternative proposals - time is short again...
> 
> I'll upload the source to the wiki and send the link here when I'm
> ready. 


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Request (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Design Team Kick-Off Step 2: Current Status of Work and Collaboration)

Hi Miguel, all,

sorry to hijack this thread, but I think it is for a good reason...


Am Dienstag, den 01.02.2011, 20:03 + schrieb Miguel Boto:
[...]
> > Is there anything that requires clarification? Is it sufficient to
> > "jump-start" with the next topics, or do you require some more
> > information? I'm just wondering ... it's so quiet at the moment ;-)
[...]
> Looks clear and concise to me. I think the Kick-Off action was a great
> idea and a good way to introduce the Design Team. I´m just waiting the
> adequate step to introduce myself since this one doesn´t require any
> action. That´s probably the reason everyone is so quiet...

Oh yes, that's true ... personally, I never thought that things are that
clear ;-)

But now to my request, as stated in the subject. As most of you know, I
proposed to have a talk at the FOSDEM [1]. Originally, I thought about
presenting ideas ... but since we are now in our "real" kick-off, I
think it would be nice to closing the "gap" between developers and
ourselves. Consequently, I'd like to ask you for some pictures - giving
the presentation a personal touch :-)

What do you think? If this is okay to use them in a public presentation,
then please send me your picture - maybe one you already use for social
media stuff?. Please reply to my personal mail address, since the list
doesn't allow attachments. From experience, a reasonable size is (larger
than) 150x200 pixels as we used here [2] ...

Of course, we don't skip our introduction phase - but it seems more safe
to me, to have "something" now. Especially, since I don't want to miss
the opportunity to introduce all the Design Team members :-) So grab the
files, please ...

By the way, cool news: Björn's blog got added to the planet [3]. So if
you like to read a bit more, go ahead :-)

Cheers,
Christoph


[1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Events/Fosdem2011

[2] http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/

[3] http://planet.documentfoundation.org/


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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!


Hi Christoph eagle eye ;-),

Christoph Noack schrieb:

Hi Bernhard,

just a short "wh" concerning the icons. I noticed that the large(er)
template icons of Impress feature a darker "rip-off line" - please have
a look:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9MZR46ZEuS8/TURcYGZPRkI/AuE/si2R_93DT_M/s1600/New256pxIcons.png

Could you please correct this as well? Sorry for noticing this a bit
late...


Great that you found it!

The gradient behind the inner surface was too dark - creating not only 
the darker rip-off line, but a darker inner border as well.


Corrected :-)

Best regards

Bernhard

PS: Still working on the gear wheel...

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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!


Bernhard Dippold schrieb:

[...]

PS: Still working on the gear wheel...


And that's not too easy...

Please have a look:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Macro_icons.png

Do you think they are okay in comparable in quality?

Which one should we propose to include in LibreOffice 3.3.1?

As part of our collaborative work I'd like to include Jaron's.

Any objections?



I integrated Jaron's Macro icons and the lighter Impress template 
gradient in this source file:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-pre_final.svg

If we are okay with the icons in this file, they will be the ones to 
hand over to Thorsten tomorrow.


So please comment all: Critics, approval, what ever else:

Best regards

Bernhard

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line

2011-02-01 Thread David Nelson

Hi, :-)

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 06:17, Bernhard Dippold
 wrote:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos_right_aligned.png
> (without the white space border indication by a colored background)

These are the ones I prefer, personally.

David Nelson

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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!

Hi Bernhard,

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Bernhard Dippold <
bernh...@familie-dippold.at> wrote:

> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Macro_icons.png
>
> Do you think they are okay in comparable in quality?
>
I think the "Jaron gear" works better at the 16px but "Paulo's gear" looks
better at the 128px size.


> Which one should we propose to include in LibreOffice 3.3.1?
>
> As part of our collaborative work I'd like to include Jaron's.
>
If you honestly think Paulo's gear is better don't include my change.  I
would rather the better icon be shipped out.  My feelings won't be hurt. :-)

I integrated Jaron's Macro icons and the lighter Impress template gradient
> in this source file:
>
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-pre_final.svg
>
> If we are okay with the icons in this file, they will be the ones to hand
> over to Thorsten tomorrow.
>
> So please comment all: Critics, approval, what ever else:
>
In general the icons look great!  My five dislikes are: (by the way it
started at 2 and then I got really critical)
1) Calc 128px icon: The middle column at the top row is a little light.
2) Calc 128px icon: The lines on the bar graph next to the orange bar
contrast too much
3) Draw 16px icon: I liked it better in a previous iteration where the
triangle was the same equilateral triangle as in the other icons
4) Impress 128px icon: The shadow could be a little bit darker I think...
(opacity changed to ~80)
5) HTML/Web 16px icon: If you take the 32px "World" and shrink it to the
16px world size and then change the "web" to 0.5 px width you get a nicer
icon.*

So really just nit-picky complaints.  Like I said earlier, the icons look
great!  Everyone did such a good job!  And thanks Bernhard for taking care
of this at the last minute!

Cheers,
Jaron


* I could see someone arguing against having such a small feature on the
icon but I think the color matched better to the other icons and you can
tell that at least there is something on the circle (i.e. it looks more like
a globe) than simply a plain colored circle.

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[libreoffice-design] lost in the archives

Hi,

Sorry for the inconvenience but there was some early artwork for a DVD
jewel case cover on the wiki and I just can't seem to fish the reference
out of the mail archives. Does anyone have that URL.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Drew


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Breaking out of the box (applications versus objects)

2011-02-01 Thread noh.way.jose

On Saturday 29 Jan 2011 10:15:13 Christoph Noack wrote:
> Hi Greg,
> 
> although some others already replied, I'd like to start with a "fresh"
> reply :-)
> 
> Am Freitag, den 28.01.2011, 00:44 + schrieb noh.way.jose:
> > I'm new to this community, so please forgive me if the topic I'd like to
> > discuss has already been aired.
> 
> So, a warm welcome to this community!
> 
Thanks, Christoph and all who have taken the time to reply. It's great to see 
such a vibrant community. Reminds me of the Open Mapping community :o)
> [...]
> 
> > Instead of applications, let's have a document, a variety of choices of
> > rendering the document (print, screen, presentation, web, edit,
> > collaborative edit, &c.) and tools. The tools can still be categorised,
> > but not as they are in applications, where the application is a hard
> > boundary. The tools here could all be used, irrespective of the
> > presentation mechanism. Categorisation of the tools need only be done as
> > a means to support user tasks, perhaps along multiple dimensions, using
> > tags. This proposal means only having to develop a tool once and
> > allowing the concurrent availability of tools that the artificial
> > applications boundaries would normally exclude. For example, DTP tools,
> > such as layout grids and text flow, which could be used alongside more
> > traditional word processing tools in documents, presentations and other
> > formats.
> 
> Where to start? I read some deeper thoughts within your mails, but at
> the end the question is, who benefits in what way?
> 
> Some thoughts:
>   * Marketing: StarOffice / OpenOffice.org has been made more
> "single application like", since people demanded to have single
> applications like Word, Excel, ... you still see many problems
> where it is unclear whether we talk about "LibreOffic", or e.g.
> "Writer". (By the way, something we have to decide on later). In
> the past, there was just "StarOffice" and different document
> types.
> 
I guess you could consider my proposition as an extrapolation of one or both 
of: 
- OLE/COM/DCOM  in an application environment, where I always felt something 
approximating my proposition was the goal but the implementation was clunky 
and artificial.
- A paper document, where I am largely unrestricted by the tools. I can use a 
pencil, pen, paint, fuzzy felt, typewriter, crayons, &c. On the whole, one 
tool doesn't preclude the use of others. No one says, this paper can only be 
used for drafting, so you can only use these special pens that only draw lines 
and arcs - no crayons or freehand curves allowed!

>   * Technology / Implementation: Having a common base for handling
> documents helps to save effort - LibO is already quite good when
> it comes to re-using components. Funnily, this had been a matter
> of limiting effort for the few guys working for StarDivision a
> few years ago. The downside: less specialized handling for the
> user's tasks ... which makes things less efficient. One of the
> things that might need improvement are for example sharing some
> "spreadsheet/table" code between Writer/Calc/Impress.

I have to make the code reuse versus specialisation call several time a week 
as a usability consultant working on improving the usability of enterprise 
software products (no names). It's a valid concern but I'd say that generally 
interaction consistency, reduction of potential points of divergence of 
behaviour and implementation efficiency are compelling reasons to take this 
approach. Concerns about specialisation can be handled by extending the base 
tool classes to introduce any required contextual subtleties. Still one tool 
but added capability for more nuanced application, according to context.

> 
>   * Environment: The industry relies on certain decisions made in
> the past. So changes in how documents are presented / handled
> will also have impact on the document format ... this is (we
> know that from political stuff) quite hard to handle :-)

I agree

> 
>   * Usability: People still stick to what they learn when they are
> small ... these real physical objects and their behavior are the
> basis for (later) exploring computers and their enhanced
> capabilities. And, although the ability of computers gained a
> lot during the past years, the people still do have the same
> mental capabilities (physiological stuff) - any change has to
> consider that (will it be focusing on the tool, or the work).

As you might guess, I'd claim that having a richer palette of tools and 
capability without hard artificial boundaries improves ease of use, providing 
the tools address genuine use cases accurately and are well designed to fulfil 
those use cases. Clearly there are affinities of tool sets to specific user 
tasks, which roughly map to the traditi

[libreoffice-design] DVD Label for use at SCALE 9x

Howdy,

After starting with the great work done by the LibreOfficeBox team and a
few iterations with folks on the US mailing list we would submit this as
the DVD label art for the disc which will be used at SCALE 9x.

You will find a png image for review here:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/a/a5/Dvd-label-scale9x_3.png

The svg file will be uploaded a little later.

We hope this will meet with the design teams approval.

Thanks

Drew


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Banner for FOSDEM II

2011-02-01 Thread Cor Nouws

Hi Bernhard,

Bernhard Dippold wrote (01-02-11 22:46)

I've done a rough draft here:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Banner_Rough_Ideas_fromcornouws.png

Oops ;-)
#1 is clear.

...but boring ;-)

Hmm, just your opinion ;-)

#1A: could be done with text in a curve?

Possibly, but I don't like it very much either - too less content IMHO.

#2: could also print just 2 or 3 default size papers en
bind them under each other

This might really be a great idea - and easily to create (you just need
strong paper and rings to combine them).

Depends on the length, but yes, some strengthening is needed and can be
done of course.

You would not be limited to 1 m height, but you could extend the line
depending on the space above the booth...

#3: the design from
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Kick-Off/CurrentWorkStatus#LibreOffice_and_BrOffice_Product_Artwork

I like this design more than #1 or #1A, but I don't know about the scale
of your banner.

Me likes it too.
Can I print in appr. one meter tall?

So, that are ideas that are from complicated (#1A), to 'done right now'
(#3).

What do you people think, are able to do?

I can't do tonight, perhaps tomorrow?

My idea is a set of 12 single A4 pages (landscape orientation)

11 containing the letters of L-I-B-R-E-O-F-F-I-C-E together with the new
MimeType icons, the last one should show the logo.

That must be great too :-)
Will ask some extra care that the sheets don't line up to shabby, but
this too can be taken care of.

BTW... I need it Friday morning around 9:00 UTC ...

I don't know if anybody else could step in - this would be great!

As Thorsten requested the final version of the MimeType icons ready for
Friday too, I'm sorry that I think this task is more urgent...

ok ... but do not make it to complicated pls ;-)

NB. since I am not subscribed to this list, pls cc me ;-)

Done...

Thanks a lot for your support!

Cor

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[libreoffice-design] lost in the archives

2011-02-01 Thread Ron Faile


Try this wiki search:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/index.php?title=Special:Search&search=dvd&fulltext=Search&ns6=1&redirs=1

Ron

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line

On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 23:13 +0100, Christoph Noack wrote:
> Hi Bernhard, hi all!
> 
> Thanks a lot (!) for caring about these icons :-)
> 
> Am Montag, den 31.01.2011, 23:17 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
> > David Nelson schrieb:
> > > The text underneath "LibreOffice" extends beyond the word
> > > "LibreOffice" on the right. It doesn't look well-aligned to me. Could
> > > you shift it leftwards maybe?
> 
> [...]
> 
> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos_right_aligned.png
> > (without the white space border indication by a colored background)
> > 
> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos.png
> > 
> > All: Which version do you like better?
> 
> Since it is very hard to balance all these objects (and you already did
> a very good job), I'd like to propose to keep only the text. In this
> case the "right aligned" versions, right side (the lower ones) look best
> - in my opinion.
> 
> My reasons:
>   * It already conveys the important message "LibreOffice"
>   * It looks a bit more balanced and it might be more versatile
>   * In the past, the Document Symbol had been considered (by people
> in the community) to belong to TDF instead of LibreOffice - if
> we start the Community Branding Process, we might keep it for
> TDF
> 
> Of course, I'll miss the document symbol ... for other reasons.

Hello Christoph, 

Actually please leave the icon, so that the person using the community
logo can make the call of whether text only makes sense for a given
usage - which I would propose is most likely to be only when needing to
go small. When it fits, inclusion of the icon, IMO, makes for a better
overall logo.

There is not a great deal of time pressure to coming up with a TDF icon
graphic is there?

Thanks

Drew


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