International Space Station Images
The International Space Station (ISS) is a manned research space facility that is being assembled in orbit around the Earth. It is a joint project between five space agencies: the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA, United States), the Russian Federal Space Agency (RKA, Russian Federation), the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA, Japan), the Canadian Space Agency (CSA, Canada) and the European Space Agency (ESA, Europe) ISS photographed following separation from the Space Shuttle Atlantis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:STS-115_ISS_after_undocking.jpg Zarya and Node 1 in 1999: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ISS_June_1999.jpg The nadir window in the Destiny lab: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Helms.window.jpg Cosmonaut Sergei Krikalev inside the Zvezda Service Module: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NASA-Krikalev-inside-ISS.jpg Astronaut Stephen K. Robinson anchored to a foot restraint on the ISS’s Canadarm2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:STS-114_Steve_Robinson_on_Canadarm2.jpg Astronaut Reilly in Quest Airlock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Reilly.in.quest.jpg Flight Engineer Helms in Node 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Helms.node1.jpg The Leonardo Multi Purpose Logistics Module: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mplm_in_shuttle.jpg The Zarya module: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Interior_of_Zarya_ISS_mudule.jpg (From the past) The American Space Shuttle Atlantis docked to the Russian Mir Space Station: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Atlantis_Docked_to_Mir.jpg About ISS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Space_Station ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: International Space Station Images
quote who=Maxim Udushlivy The International Space Station (ISS) is a manned research space facility that is being assembled in orbit around the Earth. Maxim, This is not on topic for this list. Thanks, - Jeff -- Ohio LinuxFest 2006: Columbus OH, USA http://www.ohiolinux.org/ First: This is not a race. - Jody Goldberg on the Free Software desktop ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Hal version for GNOME 2.17
Hi, I just saw on this page http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointSeventeen/ExternalDependencies that the Hal version for GNOME 2.17 is 0.5.7, yet GNOME Power Manager 2.17.1 requires Hal 0.5.8. Has the page not been updated yet? malebo... ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Hal version for GNOME 2.17
On Tue, 2006-09-19 at 16:12 +0200, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote: Hi, I just saw on this page http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointSeventeen/ExternalDependencies that the Hal version for GNOME 2.17 is 0.5.7, yet GNOME Power Manager 2.17.1 requires Hal 0.5.8. Has the page not been updated yet? Not quite. gnome-power-manager *requires* 0.5.6, works better with 0.5.7, but if you provide 0.5.8 then lots of cool extra stuff starts happening. New stuff includes cpu frequency scaling support and better LCD integration. I think the decision was to base 2.17 on 0.5.8[.x] as this is *vastly* better than 0.5.7 but this is my own impression only. Richard. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: International Space Station Images
Maxim Udushlivy wrote: Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Maxim Udushlivy The International Space Station (ISS) is a manned research space facility that is being assembled in orbit around the Earth. Maxim, This is not on topic for this list. Thanks, - Jeff That was done on purpose due to a strange list inactivity. I am still hoping to get your replies to other my messages. Also I am ready to unsubscribe without feeling insulted, just give me a hint (-; Jeff, we are not interested in your proposals right now is also a good reply. I do not insist on anything, really. I admit that I used such pesky words as collapse and political union, but I was talking mostly like a journalist who wants to raise questions and start a discussion - that was not a verdict. I bet you know that those journalists do trolling exactly for that purpose sometimes (-; Again, I do not insist on anything, but the silence may be interpreted not only as a lack of interest but also as a confusion which makes me feel guilty as if I am not able to express my thoughts in an understandable manner. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: International Space Station Images
On 9/19/06, Maxim Udushlivy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That was done on purpose due to a strange list inactivity. I am still So you intentionally wasted everyone's time? You're right[1], we do need stronger list moderation. Please don't do that again. hoping to get your replies to other my messages. Also I am ready to unsubscribe without feeling insulted, just give me a hint (-; Alright, if you just need a response... Let me first start by saying, thank you for being willing to contribute Gideon and GuiLoader to Gnome[2]. It looks like a very positive offer, though it will take a while to evaluate to determine whether to mark it part of core Gnome or part of the bigger umbrella (like AbiWord or GIMP or something). That it will take a while to evaluate is not unique to your module, rather, it's true of all module proposals. Now, I'll try to explain why you might have found people didn't want to respond to many of your emails. I hope I don't come across as offensive. You might note that people likely started ignoring your emails when you demonstrated a lack of understanding of several ideals of the community[3]. That you also decided that you needed to fix Gnome probably didn't help. (You guys are doing it all wrong often doesn't come across well[4]) I found it somewhat surprising that you complained about too much bureaucracy and politics[5] and would prefer getting work done, yet just about all I could see you getting involved with was bureaucracy and politics. Many, just wanting to get work done, decided to do work rather than get caught up spending all their time emailing. I hope that helps, Elijah [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-September/msg00228.html [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-August/msg00241.html [3] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-August/msg00258.html [4] I'm not saying that's how you meant it to come across. In fact, I'm convinced you didn't mean it that way. However, it's nearly impossible to come across any other way when you're new. Political changes typically require well known people in the community to stand up and say hey guys; here's where I think we have a problem...and here's some ways we might fix it. Even with the latter, though, it can be exceptionally difficult. Look at Havoc's posts over the last year about target audience. He has a lot of clout, and I think you'll find just about everyone agrees with him that we need to pick a target audience. That doesn't mean it's a simple problem or easy to do. [5] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-August/msg00272.html ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Hal version for GNOME 2.17
On 9/19/06, Richard Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2006-09-19 at 16:12 +0200, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote: Hi, I just saw on this page http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointSeventeen/ExternalDependencies that the Hal version for GNOME 2.17 is 0.5.7, yet GNOME Power Manager 2.17.1 requires Hal 0.5.8. Has the page not been updated yet? Not quite. gnome-power-manager *requires* 0.5.6, works better with 0.5.7, but if you provide 0.5.8 then lots of cool extra stuff starts happening. New stuff includes cpu frequency scaling support and better LCD integration. I think the decision was to base 2.17 on 0.5.8[.x] as this is *vastly* better than 0.5.7 but this is my own impression only. Personally, I'd still prefer hal-0.5.8.x to be optional (as you have done) until someone gets the build issues worked out. Once they are worked out, I fully agree with allowing the requirement to be bumped. Worth noting is that if other Gnome modules decide to bump their dependency before the build issues are worked out, then I'd prefer to (temporarily, I hope) revert to 2.16.x versions of those modules. I need to go push that proposal a bit and try to make it official... Cheers, Elijah ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Hal version for GNOME 2.17
On Tue, Sep 19, 2006 at 04:50:42PM +0100, Richard Hughes wrote: On Tue, 2006-09-19 at 16:12 +0200, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote: Hi, I just saw on this page http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointSeventeen/ExternalDependencies that the Hal version for GNOME 2.17 is 0.5.7, yet GNOME Power Manager 2.17.1 requires Hal 0.5.8. Has the page not been updated yet? Not quite. gnome-power-manager *requires* 0.5.6, works better with 0.5.7, but if you provide 0.5.8 then lots of cool extra stuff starts happening. New stuff includes cpu frequency scaling support and better LCD integration. I think the decision was to base 2.17 on 0.5.8[.x] as this is *vastly* better than 0.5.7 but this is my own impression only. Please, don't inflate GNOME dependences on non-technical merit. If some program can be compiled with library version X, it's NOT OK to depend on library version X+1 or X+2. G-P-M is good example: its real dependency is HAL 0.5.6. Requiring higher version is unfair to users. -- Tomasz TorczOnly gods can safely risk perfection, [EMAIL PROTECTED] it's a dangerous thing for a man. -- Alia pgpDGGqME8gAS.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: International Space Station Images
Elijah Newren wrote: On 9/19/06, Maxim Udushlivy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That was done on purpose due to a strange list inactivity. I am still So you intentionally wasted everyone's time? You're right[1], we do need stronger list moderation. Please don't do that again. hoping to get your replies to other my messages. Also I am ready to unsubscribe without feeling insulted, just give me a hint (-; Alright, if you just need a response... Let me first start by saying, thank you for being willing to contribute Gideon and GuiLoader to Gnome[2]. It looks like a very positive offer, though it will take a while to evaluate to determine whether to mark it part of core Gnome or part of the bigger umbrella (like AbiWord or GIMP or something). That it will take a while to evaluate is not unique to your module, rather, it's true of all module proposals. Now, I'll try to explain why you might have found people didn't want to respond to many of your emails. I hope I don't come across as offensive. You might note that people likely started ignoring your emails when you demonstrated a lack of understanding of several ideals of the community[3]. That you also decided that you needed to fix Gnome probably didn't help. (You guys are doing it all wrong often doesn't come across well[4]) I found it somewhat surprising that you complained about too much bureaucracy and politics[5] and would prefer getting work done, yet just about all I could see you getting involved with was bureaucracy and politics. Many, just wanting to get work done, decided to do work rather than get caught up spending all their time emailing. I hope that helps, Elijah [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-September/msg00228.html [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-August/msg00241.html [3] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-August/msg00258.html [4] I'm not saying that's how you meant it to come across. In fact, I'm convinced you didn't mean it that way. However, it's nearly impossible to come across any other way when you're new. Political changes typically require well known people in the community to stand up and say hey guys; here's where I think we have a problem...and here's some ways we might fix it. Even with the latter, though, it can be exceptionally difficult. Look at Havoc's posts over the last year about target audience. He has a lot of clout, and I think you'll find just about everyone agrees with him that we need to pick a target audience. That doesn't mean it's a simple problem or easy to do. [5] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-August/msg00272.html Thanks, Elijah for the reply: it is a bit harsh but I like honesty and hate political correctness. Now I see that as a newcomer I have a little chance to be heard. But that's my pesky personality: I think that sensible things are valuable even in the mouth of a stranger. Looks like Gnome tradition is different and I am not questioning it. You described my attitude as You guys are doing it all wrong and this is true, I have it. Too much confusion is floating around Gnome. I already mentioned a couple of points earlier, and here I will add yet another about GTK+. I think it is obvious that Gnome owes to GTK+ its very existence. How can you explain this page: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArchitecture/Overview Scroll down to Near future - the 2.16 platform and try to find GTK+ on the diagram. There is something called UI Library Project Ridely under Gnome Platform section. At the same time Gnome Bindings lists GTK+ wrappers using their full names. It seems to me that Gnome is digging a grave for GTK+. What attitude can you expect from me now? Also you said that I myself was involved in bureaucracy and politics. No, I wasn't. I don't understand many things about Free Desktops and before Gideon can be contributed (if ever) I think I also have rights to evaluate Gnome for the subject of being a comfortable place for me personally. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Hal version for GNOME 2.17
On Tue, 2006-09-19 at 18:50 +0200, Tomasz Torcz wrote: Please, don't inflate GNOME dependences on non-technical merit. If some program can be compiled with library version X, it's NOT OK to depend on library version X+1 or X+2. G-P-M is good example: its real dependency is HAL 0.5.6. Requiring higher version is unfair to users. Umm no. I get frequent bug reports for gnome-power-manager that are really bugs in HAL that were fixed *months* ago. I would go as far to say that my bugs/week value would halve if there was a hard dep on 0.5.8. You really want to see the hal ChangeLog and look for power and battery - there are lots of changes in the last year or so. If you want gnome-power-manager to use CPU scaling support, with all the enhancements and bugfixes, then the real dependency is 0.5.8. For HEAD, I've just upped the gtk+ requirement to 2.10 and dropped eggtrayicon support. Why? Because of the bugs in eggtrayicon and the better solution of GtkStatusIcon. That's pretty aggressive (you need a development distro, jhbuild or garnome to build the HEAD at the moment) but relying on multiple layers of #ifdefs is really bad for testing. On that matter, there's about 50 lines of obsolete code in various classes of g-p-m that can be removed if the HAL dep is increased. My opinion is to aim to use 0.5.8.[x] for 2-17 as by the release date of GNOME 2.18, most of the distros will be releasing 0.5.6 version of HAL. It's not fair to ask of maintainers add GtkStatusIcon enhancements but also keep the ~15 #ifdefs around for users of eggtrayicon even though stable distros are not going to release gtk+ 2.10 package updates. Also, Elijah mentioned about the build issues... Anyone got any links to specific problems?. Thanks. Richard. p.s. Sorry if that read like a rant, it has been a _long_ day! :-) ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: International Space Station Images
On Tue, 2006-09-19 at 21:38 +0400, Maxim Udushlivy wrote: Thanks, Elijah for the reply: it is a bit harsh Nope, I think Elijah was 100% correct. Richard. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: International Space Station Images
Hi; On Tue, 2006-09-19 at 21:38 +0400, Maxim Udushlivy wrote: Thanks, Elijah for the reply: it is a bit harsh but I like honesty and hate political correctness. Now I see that as a newcomer I have a little chance to be heard. Your chances improve as soon as you try to understand how the thing works, instead of throwing stuff around. I think it is obvious that Gnome owes to GTK+ its very existence. How can you explain this page: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArchitecture/Overview Scroll down to Near future - the 2.16 platform and try to find GTK+ on the diagram. There is something called UI Library Project Ridely under Gnome Platform section. That is really confusing - even to me. I assume that the author of the diagram wanted to convey the idea of GTK+ after Project Ridley is completed using a placeholder name instead of GTK+ + everything that survived or has been created under the Project Ridley umbrella. But you're lucky: GNOME Live! is a wiki, and it's very probable that the author of that page is getting notification for changes; so, if you want a clarification on what the page says you just have to add a note to it, or mail the author directly. At the same time Gnome Bindings lists GTK+ wrappers using their full names. It seems to me that Gnome is digging a grave for GTK+. What attitude can you expect from me now? If you had looked at the Project Ridley page on the very same wiki[1] you'd have seen that Project Ridley is an ongoing project involving GTK+ and some GNOME libraries. When Ridley is declared complete, and we have achieved its goals, the result will always be GTK+ but in turn we'll have a bunch of other libraries plus a whole bunch of deprecated stuff. So, the attitude we can expect from a person whom wants to contribute something to GNOME in terms of organisation and policies is to try and understand the current organisation, policies and goals; and only after that, proposing to change something (complete with a nice road map and rationales for every point). Ciao, Emmanuele. -- Emmanuele Bassi, E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.net B: http://log.emmanuelebassi.net ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: International Space Station Images
Hi Maxim, I think I probably came across too harshly in my previous email. I'm a bit prickly. Hopefully I do a bit better this time, but, knowing me, no guarantees. ;-) On 9/19/06, Maxim Udushlivy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it is obvious that Gnome owes to GTK+ its very existence. Yes, it's at the very base, all our apps depend on it, we love it, and we're trying to remove other libraries in Gnome and instead making them part of GTK+. How can you explain this page: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArchitecture/Overview I had no knowledge that it existed; it looks to me like Nickolay is just trying to make some high-level description of the documentation for others. It looks like a very good first cut. You might want to give him any suggestions for improvement that you have. Scroll down to Near future - the 2.16 platform and try to find GTK+ on the diagram. There is something called UI Library Project Ridely under Gnome Platform section. At the same time Gnome Bindings lists GTK+ wrappers using their full names. It seems to me that Gnome is digging a grave for GTK+. What attitude can you expect from me now? It almost seems like you're looking for a fight. Why? What's the point in grabbing some obscure page written by a single person (append ?action=info to the url to see the list of changes and who made them), trying to find something that you might be able to construe as showing devious intent (rather than asking the author of the page what he actually intended; I strongly doubt Nickolay had any such intentions), and then ascribing that position to all of Gnome to boot? And, as far as I can tell, you have done so without asking any GTK+ developers whether they feel this way (I'm pretty certain they'd say the opposite, knowing several of them and having made a couple small contributions myself). Your claim that Gnome is trying to dig a grave for GTK+ is preposterous, to say the least. Also you said that I myself was involved in bureaucracy and politics. No, I wasn't. In the last three weeks or so, you proposed that the project should create a different leadership structure[1], that we should abandon free/open source software as ideals[2], and that the HIG should be discarded (I disagree with HIG existence[3]). How exactly is that not spending your time on bureaucracy and politics? I don't understand many things about Free Desktops and before Gideon can be contributed (if ever) I think I also have rights to evaluate Gnome for the subject of being a comfortable place for me personally. Absolutely. May I suggest that an effective way to learn about Gnome is to get involved with the various projects that make up Gnome? (It seems to have worked well for me, anyway) Just browse on over to http://live.gnome.org/JoinGnome, and follow the links from there. Not only are there many projects that can make use of your development skills, there's also a lot of non-coding projects that you can join as well. I believe you have skills that could help a lot of projects on both sides of the spectrum. Cheers, Elijah [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-September/msg00228.html [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-August/msg00258.html [3] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-August/msg00269.html ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: external dependencies
On Thu, 2006-09-14 at 11:04 -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: Hi David, Hi. Sorry for the lag. On 9/13/06, David Zeuthen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's really what audience we want to optimize for. There are (at least) two groups of entities that provide the GNOME experience to users; snip This of course is only one example. I submit this is a trade off and it really depends on who we want to optimize for. No, this issue is bigger than target audience. Testers, documenters, and developers often need a development version of GNOME to get their work done. Requiring them to have very recent versions of nearly everything on their system is much too high a bar. In fact, the building bar is so high right now that I believe nearly everything else in GNOME is currently suffering; the difficulty of building GNOME has even taken a large amount of time from some of the more experienced developers. (Note that I'm by no means just blaming HAL here; we have lots of issues. External dependencies in general have been the biggest problems in the build area in the recent past, thus the proposal to stop depending on cvs versions of those.) Right. As GNOME is being increasingly integrated with things like the kernel, HAL, X.org and so forth this is understandable. To me it's still pretty simple - if we want GNOME to be on the bleeding edge wrt. using new technology we accept that GNOME packages may depend on very recent external dependencies. For example, making 2.18 depend on the HAL 0.5.9 that will be out in December. - If we want to be more conservative we don't do this. I've raised a few scenarios in earlier mails about this. To sum up - You'll have ugly #ifdef's in code for several code paths for supporting several versions of D-Bus, HAL or whatever. No one really wants this - It suddenly becomes a huge liability to be part of the GNOME release - can't speak for Richard per se, but really, g-p-m largely depends on new features in HAL. Too bad he's stuck on HAL 0.5.7 now, that CPU frequency thing looked interesting - Personally, in the past, I've done some development on GNOME features in g-v-m, gnome-vfs and whatnot and sending those patches to the list before a release. I'll continue to do this but I'll probably won't bother sending them to the list until the next GNOME development release opens - they will be sitting in the Fedora SRPM and we're back to distributors having increasingly big patch sets. - Distributors having large patch sets leads to other well-known bad things. I fully hear what you are saying about testers, documentation people, GNOME developers and application developers wanting to develop on a recent GNOME. Previously, and today even, the answer for these people have been things like jhbuild and GARNOME. In today's world where we increasingly integrate with external projects this can lead to pretty strange bugs as I've also outlined earlier. Don't want to flame or anything, but perhaps things like GARNOME can move to a live-cd / live-usb approach of delivering their software so users have the right external deps... I mean, there are several good tools from the distributions to do just this; for example I hear good things about the Ubuntu live CD infrastructure (Fedora needs to catch up there but that's another discussion). It's also useful to point out that several vendors including Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora and SUSE are pretty quick at putting new GNOME development releases out. Perhaps pointing testers to such trees is not a bad idea, it's not like having 1 OS on a single system is something new. So holding back new and useful features in the name of some people are running old OS'es is just bad. Sorry if this comes across as a flame. I just don't want GNOME to miss out great new stuff. David ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Hal version for GNOME 2.17
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tomasz Torcz wrote: On Tue, Sep 19, 2006 at 04:50:42PM +0100, Richard Hughes wrote: On Tue, 2006-09-19 at 16:12 +0200, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote: Hi, I just saw on this page http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointSeventeen/ExternalDependencies that the Hal version for GNOME 2.17 is 0.5.7, yet GNOME Power Manager 2.17.1 requires Hal 0.5.8. Has the page not been updated yet? Not quite. gnome-power-manager *requires* 0.5.6, works better with 0.5.7, but if you provide 0.5.8 then lots of cool extra stuff starts happening. New stuff includes cpu frequency scaling support and better LCD integration. I think the decision was to base 2.17 on 0.5.8[.x] as this is *vastly* better than 0.5.7 but this is my own impression only. Please, don't inflate GNOME dependences on non-technical merit. If some program can be compiled with library version X, it's NOT OK to depend on library version X+1 or X+2. G-P-M is good example: its real dependency is HAL 0.5.6. Requiring higher version is unfair to users. New users don't care about stability. They want features. To be honest I also prefer features over stability, and, if HAL 0.5.8 is stable enough by that time and works on most systems, I see no reason to not bump the dependency. But then again, what about those who then complain when it doesn't work? I can definitely see your point, but what size is that minority of users for whom it may not work? I know nothing of HAL, but this is my perception of the community. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFEEkNv7fgPJvITk4RAgTbAKDTz6+YOXiaVqhE/t4tYLO9xbhoJwCgqOQd x/7zcNmFs2nisiQGx/NjD2k= =+E5V -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: International Space Station Images
Richard Hughes wrote: On Tue, 2006-09-19 at 21:38 +0400, Maxim Udushlivy wrote: Thanks, Elijah for the reply: it is a bit harsh Nope, I think Elijah was 100% correct. Richard. That was a compliment, no need to protect Elijah. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: International Space Station Images
Emmanuele Bassi wrote: So, the attitude we can expect from a person whom wants to contribute something to GNOME in terms of organisation and policies is to try and understand the current organisation, policies and goals; and only after that, proposing to change something (complete with a nice road map and rationales for every point). Ciao, Emmanuele. Hi, thanks for directions. :-) My main suggestion is a position of a Gnome Moderator. It's difficult to prove his importance with a roadmap since it is only possible to appeal to a common sense and imagination: graphs won't help. By the way, here is a good description: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_moderator My next point is that Gnome and GTK+ should part their ways (like Qt and KDE which are separate entities). I tried to explain rationales in my letter: http://www.mail-archive.com/desktop-devel-list@gnome.org/msg06771.html ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: International Space Station Images
Elijah Newren wrote: Scroll down to Near future - the 2.16 platform and try to find GTK+ on the diagram. There is something called UI Library Project Ridely under Gnome Platform section. At the same time Gnome Bindings lists GTK+ wrappers using their full names. It seems to me that Gnome is digging a grave for GTK+. What attitude can you expect from me now? It almost seems like you're looking for a fight. Why? What's the point in grabbing some obscure page written by a single person (append ?action=info to the url to see the list of changes and who made them), trying to find something that you might be able to construe as showing devious intent (rather than asking the author of the page what he actually intended; I strongly doubt Nickolay had any such intentions), and then ascribing that position to all of Gnome to boot? And, as far as I can tell, you have done so without asking any GTK+ developers whether they feel this way (I'm pretty certain they'd say the opposite, knowing several of them and having made a couple small contributions myself). Your claim that Gnome is trying to dig a grave for GTK+ is preposterous, to say the least. A fight because bullsh*t is a cancer. For another example check this review that puts gtkmm not only above other wrappers but almost on one level with GTK+ itself: http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/928 This article is a direct result of gtkmm presentation that tries to expose that wrapper as a savior by lowering GTK+. This cancer is being spread for years and the campaign has a deafening success, I myself was hypnotized once. Also you said that I myself was involved in bureaucracy and politics. No, I wasn't. In the last three weeks or so, you proposed that the project should create a different leadership structure[1], that we should abandon free/open source software as ideals[2], and that the HIG should be discarded (I disagree with HIG existence[3]). How exactly is that not spending your time on bureaucracy and politics? [1] - I proposed a change in a leadership but I was not proposing myself as a leader. And this is not even a change in a leadership, but an extension: additional position above current structures, a Moderator [2] - I don't understand how does this abandon foss ideals. [3] - I changed my opinion later (the second paragraph): http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-August/msg00275.html [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-September/msg00228.html [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-August/msg00258.html [3] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-August/msg00269.html ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
yelp Compilation error.
Hi Im trying to compile yelp from http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/sources/yelp/2.14/yelp-2.14.2.tar.bz2 but im geting this error. Im compiling with this parameters. ./configure --enable-man --enable-info --with-mozilla=firefox --with-search=auto --with-x --enable-debug make make install installed dependencies: glib 2.10.2 orbit 2.14.3 gconf 2.14.0 gnome-doc-utils 0.6.0 gnome-vfs 2.14.2 gtk 2.8.18 libbonobo 2.14.0 libglade 2.5.1 libgnome 2.14.1 libgnomeui 2.14.1 libgnomeprint 2.12.1 libgnomeprintui 2.12.1 libxml2 2.6.23 libxslt 1.1.15 startup-notification 0.8 firefox 1.5.0.7 (with devel) popt 1.7 zlib 1.2.3 bzip 2 1.0.3 gettext 0.14.5 intltool 0.34.1 pkgconfig 0.20.0 here is the error message: * i686-pc-linux-gnu-g++ -fno-rtti -fshort-wchar -mtune=i686 -O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -Wall -Wno-unused -Wno-ctor-dtor-privacy -Wno-non-virtual-dtor -mtune=i686 -O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -o yelp yelp-Yelper.o yelp-yelp-base.o yelp-yelp-bookmarks.o yelp-yelp-db-pager.o yelp-yelp-db-print-pager.o yelp-yelp-error.o yelp-yelp-gecko-utils.o yelp-yelp-html.o yelp-yelp-io-channel.o yelp-yelp-pager.o yelp-yelp-settings.o yelp-yelp-toc-pager.o yelp-yelp-utils.o yelp-yelp-window.o yelp-yelp-xslt-pager.o yelp-yelp-marshal-main.o yelp-yelp-main.o yelp-yelp-print.o yelp-yelp-gecko-services.o yelp-yelp-man-parser.o yelp-yelp-man-pager.o yelp-yelp-info-pager.o yelp-yelp-info-parser.o yelp-gtkentryaction.o yelp-yelp-search-pager.o yelp-GNOME_Yelp-stubs.o yelp-GNOME_Yelp-skels.o yelp-GNOME_Yelp-common.o -pthread -Wl,--export-dynamic -Wl,-R/usr/lib/ /usr/lib/libgnomeprintui-2-2.so /usr/lib/libgnomeprint-2-2.so /usr/lib/libglade-2.0.so /usr/lib/libgnomeui-2.so -L/usr/lib /usr/lib/libjpeg.so /usr/lib/libbonoboui-2.so /usr/lib/libgnome-keyring.so /usr/lib/libgnomecanvas-2.so /usr/lib/libgnome-2.so /usr/lib/libesd.so /usr/lib/libasound.so /usr/lib/libaudiofile.so /usr/lib/libart_lgpl_2.so /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so /usr/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.so /usr/lib/libatk-1.0.so /usr/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.so /usr/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.so /usr/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.so /usr/lib/libpango-1.0.so /usr/lib/libcairo.so -lXrender -lXext /usr/lib/libpng12.so /usr/lib/libfontconfig.so /usr/lib/libexpat.so /usr/lib/libfreetype.so /usr/lib/libgnomevfs-2.so -lssl -lcrypto -lresolv -lutil -lrt /usr/lib/libbonobo-2.so /usr/lib/libgconf-2.so /usr/lib/libbonobo-activation.so /usr/lib/libORBitCosNaming-2.so /usr/lib/libORBit-2.so /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so /usr/lib/libgmodule-2.0.so /usr/lib/libgthread-2.0.so /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so /usr/lib/libexslt.so /usr/lib/libxslt.so /usr/lib/libgcrypt.so -lnsl /usr/lib/libgpg-error.so /usr/lib/libxml2.so -lm /usr/lib/libstartup-notification-1.so /usr/lib/libpopt.so -lz -lbz2 -lSM -lICE -lX11 -L/usr/lib/MozillaFirefox -L/usr/lib/ -lgtkembedmoz -lxpcom -lplds4 -lplc4 -lnspr4 -lpthread -ldl -Wl,--rpath -Wl,/usr/lib/MozillaFirefox /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lgtkembedmoz collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[3]: *** [yelp] Error 1 * Thanks. _ Hava durumunu bizden ögrenin ve evden öyle çikin! http://www.msn.com.tr/havadurumu/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: International Space Station Images
On Tue, 2006-09-19 at 23:39 +0400, Maxim Udushlivy wrote: Emmanuele Bassi wrote: So, the attitude we can expect from a person whom wants to contribute something to GNOME in terms of organisation and policies is to try and understand the current organisation, policies and goals; and only after that, proposing to change something (complete with a nice road map and rationales for every point). Ciao, Emmanuele. Hi, thanks for directions. :-) My main suggestion is a position of a Gnome Moderator. It's difficult to prove his importance with a roadmap since it is only possible to appeal to a common sense and imagination: graphs won't help. By the way, here is a good description: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_moderator GNOME is like a commune. Everyone involved in the community is at some level, a moderator. We don't need an official moderator person. What a boring job that would be. My next point is that Gnome and GTK+ should part their ways (like Qt and KDE which are separate entities). I tried to explain rationales in my letter: http://www.mail-archive.com/desktop-devel-list@gnome.org/msg06771.html GNOME and GTK+ *ARE* separate. GNOME is a platform that depends on GTK+. KDE is a platform that depends on QT. What's the difference here? -- dobey ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: yelp Compilation error.
yes, i have those files /usr/lib/MozillaFirefox/include/gtkembedmoz/gtkmozembed.h /usr/lib/MozillaFirefox/include/gtkembedmoz/gtkmozembed_internal.h From: Toby Smithe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: yelp Compilation error. Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 23:29:04 +0100 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 PardoX PardoX wrote: Hi Im trying to compile yelp from http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/sources/yelp/2.14/yelp-2.14.2.tar.bz2 but im geting this error. Im compiling with this parameters. ./configure --enable-man --enable-info --with-mozilla=firefox --with-search=auto --with-x --enable-debug make make install installed dependencies: glib 2.10.2 orbit 2.14.3 gconf 2.14.0 gnome-doc-utils 0.6.0 gnome-vfs 2.14.2 gtk 2.8.18 libbonobo 2.14.0 libglade 2.5.1 libgnome 2.14.1 libgnomeui 2.14.1 libgnomeprint 2.12.1 libgnomeprintui 2.12.1 libxml2 2.6.23 libxslt 1.1.15 startup-notification 0.8 firefox 1.5.0.7 (with devel) popt 1.7 zlib 1.2.3 bzip 2 1.0.3 gettext 0.14.5 intltool 0.34.1 pkgconfig 0.20.0 here is the error message: * i686-pc-linux-gnu-g++ -fno-rtti -fshort-wchar -mtune=i686 -O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -Wall -Wno-unused -Wno-ctor-dtor-privacy -Wno-non-virtual-dtor -mtune=i686 -O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -o yelp yelp-Yelper.o yelp-yelp-base.o yelp-yelp-bookmarks.o yelp-yelp-db-pager.o yelp-yelp-db-print-pager.o yelp-yelp-error.o yelp-yelp-gecko-utils.o yelp-yelp-html.o yelp-yelp-io-channel.o yelp-yelp-pager.o yelp-yelp-settings.o yelp-yelp-toc-pager.o yelp-yelp-utils.o yelp-yelp-window.o yelp-yelp-xslt-pager.o yelp-yelp-marshal-main.o yelp-yelp-main.o yelp-yelp-print.o yelp-yelp-gecko-services.o yelp-yelp-man-parser.o yelp-yelp-man-pager.o yelp-yelp-info-pager.o yelp-yelp-info-parser.o yelp-gtkentryaction.o yelp-yelp-search-pager.o yelp-GNOME_Yelp-stubs.o yelp-GNOME_Yelp-skels.o yelp-GNOME_Yelp-common.o -pthread -Wl,--export-dynamic -Wl,-R/usr/lib/ /usr/lib/libgnomeprintui-2-2.so /usr/lib/libgnomeprint-2-2.so /usr/lib/libglade-2.0.so /usr/lib/libgnomeui-2.so -L/usr/lib /usr/lib/libjpeg.so /usr/lib/libbonoboui-2.so /usr/lib/libgnome-keyring.so /usr/lib/libgnomecanvas-2.so /usr/lib/libgnome-2.so /usr/lib/libesd.so /usr/lib/libasound.so /usr/lib/libaudiofile.so /usr/lib/libart_lgpl_2.so /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so /usr/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.so /usr/lib/libatk-1.0.so /usr/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.so /usr/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.so /usr/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.so /usr/lib/libpango-1.0.so /usr/lib/libcairo.so -lXrender -lXext /usr/lib/libpng12.so /usr/lib/libfontconfig.so /usr/lib/libexpat.so /usr/lib/libfreetype.so /usr/lib/libgnomevfs-2.so -lssl -lcrypto -lresolv -lutil -lrt /usr/lib/libbonobo-2.so /usr/lib/libgconf-2.so /usr/lib/libbonobo-activation.so /usr/lib/libORBitCosNaming-2.so /usr/lib/libORBit-2.so /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so /usr/lib/libgmodule-2.0.so /usr/lib/libgthread-2.0.so /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so /usr/lib/libexslt.so /usr/lib/libxslt.so /usr/lib/libgcrypt.so -lnsl /usr/lib/libgpg-error.so /usr/lib/libxml2.so -lm /usr/lib/libstartup-notification-1.so /usr/lib/libpopt.so -lz -lbz2 -lSM -lICE -lX11 -L/usr/lib/MozillaFirefox -L/usr/lib/ -lgtkembedmoz -lxpcom -lplds4 -lplc4 -lnspr4 -lpthread -ldl -Wl,--rpath -Wl,/usr/lib/MozillaFirefox /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lgtkembedmoz collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[3]: *** [yelp] Error 1 * Do you have gtkembedmoz installed (or the package that provides it)? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFEG8wv7fgPJvITk4RAhqbAKDJP9gWZDVVGdul2h0McG8n65AmMACg6aDD U3ydj0HXFoo1pHWCc5frsvE= =5iMV -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list _ Hem e-postalarinizi, hem de Bilgisayarinizi MSN Güvenlik ile koruma altina alin! http://www.msn.com.tr/security/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: yelp Compilation error.
On Wed, 2006-09-20 at 00:42 +, PardoX PardoX wrote: yes, i have those files /usr/lib/MozillaFirefox/include/gtkembedmoz/gtkmozembed.h /usr/lib/MozillaFirefox/include/gtkembedmoz/gtkmozembed_internal.h Where is libgtkmozembed.so. That is what it claims it can't find. --d -L/usr/lib/MozillaFirefox -L/usr/lib/ -lgtkembedmoz ... -Wl,--rpath -Wl,/usr/lib/MozillaFirefox /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lgtkembedmoz collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[3]: *** [yelp] Error 1 * -- Davyd Madeley http://www.davyd.id.au/ 08B0 341A 0B9B 08BB 2118 C060 2EDD BB4F 5191 6CDA ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
