Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, 2013-04-04 at 21:20 +0800, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > Link: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=674092 IIRC pygtk is no longer maintained (as is gtk+ 2) as the newer binding are using gobject-introspection and pygobject 3 which (presumably) don't have this problem. Last commit to it was 2 years ago. Best regards PS. I'm not maintainer of gtk+/pygtk or pygobject and I might misrepresent something. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Maciej Piechotka wrote: > IIRC pygtk is no longer maintained (as is gtk+ 2) as the newer binding > are using gobject-introspection and pygobject 3 which (presumably) don't > have this problem. Last commit to it was 2 years ago. What if people want to develop software that could run on a wide range of distros, e.g., EL5 to Fedora 19? ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On 2013-04-04, 13:20 GMT, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > Link: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=674092 If developer says, he wants a patch attached, then it'd better be attached. Fixed. Matěj ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 9:59 PM, Matej Cepl wrote: > If developer says, he wants a patch attached, then it'd better be > attached. Fixed. Thank you for your work! But the patch is not big at all anyway; it is obvious to see what it does by looking at origin report. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
Le 04/04/2013 15:20, Ma Xiaojun a écrit : > Link: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=674092 Could you please avoid getting that harsh in all your messages? I think I'm not the only getting upset by the way you handle communication. You'll find unreviewed patches all over the GNOME modules, that's a fact. People are busy fixing other bugs, or busy with their own life, or just stop maintaining things. I'm not a huge fan of people saying that everything is ok, always keeping happy-happy, and not facing problems. But using stop energy that relentlessly doesn't help either. What if you were the maintainer of that module? Wouldn't you get offended by someone publicly trying to put shame on you for not getting things done fast enough? I would. Please directly contact the maintainers of a module before sending this kind of message to the d-d-l, and try some psychology: asking somebody to do something works much better if you kindly ask, and thank people, rather than if you imply that they either are morons or slackers. GNOME is a community, GNOME is people. Smashing people the ones against the others helps nobody... ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
Le 04/04/2013 15:59, Matej Cepl a écrit : > If developer says, he wants a patch attached, then it'd better be > attached. Fixed. Well, it will be fixed only once committed and a 2.24.1 release out, which IMHO won't happen any soon if the module is unmaintained... ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, 2013-04-04 at 21:20 +0800, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > Link: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=674092 Likely a long time for an unmaintained module that has not seen any code activity for years: https://git.gnome.org/browse/pygtk/log/ Maybe you have some luck to find a developer on https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/python-hackers-list . However I don't expect anybody to create a new tarball of pygtk that distros would pick up and ship, so not sure how much sense this makes. This touches a general unsolved issue: Sharing the maintenance burden of deprecated modules across distributors who ship enterprise / long-term support versions. Same problem e.g. for gnome-vfs, libgnome, ... I guess if somebody offered maintainership, nobody would refuse. andre -- Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:11 PM, Luis Menina wrote: > Could you please avoid getting that harsh in all your messages? I think > I'm not the only getting upset by the way you handle communication. Focus on the bug, rather than how it is shown to you, please. > You'll find unreviewed patches all over the GNOME modules, that's a > fact. People are busy fixing other bugs, or busy with their own life, or > just stop maintaining things. I'm not a huge fan of people saying that > everything is ok, always keeping happy-happy, and not facing problems. > But using stop energy that relentlessly doesn't help either. Are suggesting that GNOME are maintained by a group of hobbyist? How to prove your seriousness about your distributed software? > What if you were the maintainer of that module? Wouldn't you get > offended by someone publicly trying to put shame on you for not getting > things done fast enough? I would. It's indeed a shame. Whether you take the offence or not is your problem not mine. > Please directly contact the maintainers of a module before sending this > kind of message to the d-d-l, and try some psychology: asking somebody > to do something works much better if you kindly ask, and thank people, > rather than if you imply that they either are morons or slackers. > > GNOME is a community, GNOME is people. Smashing people the ones against > the others helps nobody... I don't think it would be better to put finger towards some particular person. I just want this problem fixed, indeed. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 04, 2013 at 10:44:22PM +0800, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > Are suggesting that GNOME are maintained by a group of hobbyist? > How to prove your seriousness about your distributed software? I am a hobbyist. I am aware that there is something wrong with that, for which I apologize. Where I work we do indeed pride ourselves behaving any way we like, because it does not matter at all how people are treated, as we are getting paid. -- Regards, Olav ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:27 PM, Andre Klapper wrote: > Likely a long time for an unmaintained module that has not seen any code > activity for years: https://git.gnome.org/browse/pygtk/log/ > > Maybe you have some luck to find a developer on > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/python-hackers-list . > However I don't expect anybody to create a new tarball of pygtk that > distros would pick up and ship, so not sure how much sense this makes. > > This touches a general unsolved issue: Sharing the maintenance burden of > deprecated modules across distributors who ship enterprise / long-term > support versions. Same problem e.g. for gnome-vfs, libgnome, ... > I guess if somebody offered maintainership, nobody would refuse. It's all logistics issues on your side; I don't care about the community dynamics. I just care how GNOME community as a whole treat third-party developers. It boils down simply to a trivial reference counting issue. "People urge to have this bug fixed " has nothing to do with "people want to take over PyGTK". ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:55 PM, Olav Vitters wrote: > > I am a hobbyist. I am aware that there is something wrong with that, for > which I apologize. Where I work we do indeed pride ourselves behaving > any way we like, because it does not matter at all how people are > treated, as we are getting paid. > Nice summary. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
We're not suggesting anything of the sort. We're saying that PyGTK+ hasn't been touched in two years. If this patch lands today, can we ensure that a new release of PyGTK+ is sent to distributions? Will you take the responsibility to make a new release, a new tarball, etc? If it simply lands in git and that's it, why do it at all? On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:27 PM, Andre Klapper wrote: > > Likely a long time for an unmaintained module that has not seen any code > > activity for years: https://git.gnome.org/browse/pygtk/log/ > > > > Maybe you have some luck to find a developer on > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/python-hackers-list . > > However I don't expect anybody to create a new tarball of pygtk that > > distros would pick up and ship, so not sure how much sense this makes. > > > > This touches a general unsolved issue: Sharing the maintenance burden of > > deprecated modules across distributors who ship enterprise / long-term > > support versions. Same problem e.g. for gnome-vfs, libgnome, ... > > I guess if somebody offered maintainership, nobody would refuse. > > It's all logistics issues on your side; I don't care about the > community dynamics. > I just care how GNOME community as a whole treat third-party developers. > > It boils down simply to a trivial reference counting issue. "People > urge to have this bug fixed " has nothing to do with "people want to > take over PyGTK". > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > -- Jasper ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
>> This touches a general unsolved issue: Sharing the maintenance burden of >> deprecated modules across distributors who ship enterprise / long-term >> support versions. Same problem e.g. for gnome-vfs, libgnome, ... >> I guess if somebody offered maintainership, nobody would refuse. > > It's all logistics issues on your side; I don't care about the > community dynamics. > I just care how GNOME community as a whole treat third-party developers. > > It boils down simply to a trivial reference counting issue. "People > urge to have this bug fixed " has nothing to do with "people want to > take over PyGTK". Did you ask for your money back? Cheers, Debarshi -- If computers are going to revolutionize education, then steam engines and cars and electricity would have done it too. -- Arjun Shankar pgpJqL9EZZ9VH.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:01 PM, Debarshi Ray wrote: > Did you ask for your money back? No, I prefer paying some money rather than writing stupid E-mails as the way to ask for support. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
2013/4/4 Ma Xiaojun : > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:11 PM, Luis Menina wrote: >> Could you please avoid getting that harsh in all your messages? I think >> I'm not the only getting upset by the way you handle communication. > > Focus on the bug, rather than how it is shown to you, please. > >> You'll find unreviewed patches all over the GNOME modules, that's a >> fact. People are busy fixing other bugs, or busy with their own life, or >> just stop maintaining things. I'm not a huge fan of people saying that >> everything is ok, always keeping happy-happy, and not facing problems. >> But using stop energy that relentlessly doesn't help either. > > Are suggesting that GNOME are maintained by a group of hobbyist? > How to prove your seriousness about your distributed software? Volunteer != hobbyist. Professionals volunteer their time and do their best to get things working. Want something solved and it doesn't happen? Ask nicely. Still doesn't happen? Too bad, nobody's fault really. The community doesn't work for you. Each individual sets its own goals and motivations. If something doesn't happen, you can ask nicely how you can help to make it happen and sooner or later you'll figure out how to go and fix it yourself (sometimes that means becoming a maintainer, but to achieve that you need time, effort and a constructive mindset). >> What if you were the maintainer of that module? Wouldn't you get >> offended by someone publicly trying to put shame on you for not getting >> things done fast enough? I would. > > It's indeed a shame. > Whether you take the offence or not is your problem not mine. Actually, it is your problem, we have a code of conduct for a reason, if you offend people willingly in any GNOME communication channel you have a problem. Not caring on whether people get offended or not, is in my opinion your problem. And people willing to work with you and help you depends at a large extend on how nice you behave with them. > >> Please directly contact the maintainers of a module before sending this >> kind of message to the d-d-l, and try some psychology: asking somebody >> to do something works much better if you kindly ask, and thank people, >> rather than if you imply that they either are morons or slackers. >> >> GNOME is a community, GNOME is people. Smashing people the ones against >> the others helps nobody... > > I don't think it would be better to put finger towards some particular > person. I just want this problem fixed, indeed. You are creating another problem in the process. Please keep other's people's feelings into account and give up that proud undertone in your responses. > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list -- Cheers, Alberto Ruiz ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
Hi Ma, On Thu, 2013-04-04 at 22:44 +0800, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:11 PM, Luis Menina wrote: > > Could you please avoid getting that harsh in all your messages? I think > > I'm not the only getting upset by the way you handle communication. > > Focus on the bug, rather than how it is shown to you, please. The "you vs. me" is not how it works, and there's no good excuse for you to not bring it up in a friendlier way. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/page.cgi?id=etiquette.html has a nice section which explains how free and open source software development is done in general when it comes to expectations: "No obligation. "Open Source" is not the same as "the developers must do my bidding." Everyone here wants to help, but no one else has any obligation to fix the bugs you want fixed. Therefore, you should not act as if you expect someone to fix a bug by a particular date or release. Aggressive or repeated demands will not be received well and will almost certainly diminish the impact and interest in your suggestions." > > Please directly contact the maintainers of a module before sending this > > kind of message to the d-d-l, and try some psychology: asking somebody > > to do something works much better if you kindly ask, and thank people, > > rather than if you imply that they either are morons or slackers. > > > > GNOME is a community, GNOME is people. Smashing people the ones against > > the others helps nobody... > > I don't think it would be better to put finger towards some particular > person. I just want this problem fixed, indeed. It's entirely up to you and your wording if you "put the finger towards some person" (though having the feeling that you'd blame somebody by contacting them directly might be based on different cultural backgrounds?). Trying to find a better target audience first for your friendly request to take a look at a patch (I've pointed to the python hackers mailing list before) sounds more helpful than the rather generic and noisy desktop-devel-list. https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ lists our mailing lists, and most modules in GNOME Git include DOAP files with maintainer contact info, in this case: https://git.gnome.org/browse/pygtk/tree/pygtk.doap These might be good places to start with, before potentially escalating to desktop-devel-list. andre -- Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
2013/4/4 Ma Xiaojun : > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:01 PM, Debarshi Ray wrote: >> Did you ask for your money back? > > No, I prefer paying some money rather than writing stupid E-mails as > the way to ask for support. Then you are lucky, there are plenty of GNOME consultancy companies who specialize on the core of GNOME, (Codethink, Collabora, Igalia, Lanedo and Openismus comes to mind, in alphabetic order, sorry if a missed any other ones). > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list -- Cheers, Alberto Ruiz ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Alberto Ruiz wrote: > Volunteer != hobbyist. > > Professionals volunteer their time and do their best to get things > working. Want something solved and it doesn't happen? Ask nicely. > Still doesn't happen? Too bad, nobody's fault really. > > The community doesn't work for you. Each individual sets its own goals > and motivations. If something doesn't happen, you can ask nicely how > you can help to make it happen and sooner or later you'll figure out > how to go and fix it yourself (sometimes that means becoming a > maintainer, but to achieve that you need time, effort and a > constructive mindset). It is a problem reported as early as 2010. It affects fair amount of software. > Actually, it is your problem, we have a code of conduct for a reason, > if you offend people willingly in any GNOME communication channel you > have a problem. Not caring on whether people get offended or not, is > in my opinion your problem. And people willing to work with you and > help you depends at a large extend on how nice you behave with them. > > You are creating another problem in the process. Please keep other's > people's feelings into account and give up that proud undertone in > your responses. You feel offended because a real bug is put in front of you? ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On 04/04/13 11:01 AM, Jasper St. Pierre wrote: > If it simply lands in git and that's it, why do it at all? There is always a point of having stuff land in git. This allow making the release process faster in case someone wants to step up and help with the release. I don't believe in the argument "no need to put it in git, there haven't been a release". Not speaking for a specific module though or on behalf on any maintainer. But I tend to apply that stuff to projects I maintain. Hub ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On 4 April 2013 16:04, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:01 PM, Debarshi Ray wrote: > > Did you ask for your money back? > > No, I prefer paying some money rather than writing stupid E-mails as > the way to ask for support. Sound good. There are numerous companies that provide paid support around GNOME, you'll be able to contract any one of those to fix this bug for you. Ross ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, April 4, 2013 10:58 am, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:27 PM, Andre Klapper wrote: >> Likely a long time for an unmaintained module that has not seen any code >> activity for years: https://git.gnome.org/browse/pygtk/log/ >> >> Maybe you have some luck to find a developer on >> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/python-hackers-list . >> However I don't expect anybody to create a new tarball of pygtk that >> distros would pick up and ship, so not sure how much sense this makes. >> >> This touches a general unsolved issue: Sharing the maintenance burden of >> deprecated modules across distributors who ship enterprise / long-term >> support versions. Same problem e.g. for gnome-vfs, libgnome, ... >> I guess if somebody offered maintainership, nobody would refuse. > > It's all logistics issues on your side; I don't care about the > community dynamics. > I just care how GNOME community as a whole treat third-party developers. Community dynamics are an important part of how GNOME functions generally and all discussion here should be mindful of that fact. Harsh and negative tone frustrates productive discussion and often causes unnecessary reaction traffic which just wastes people's time. Please be more considerate in your emails to this list. karen > > It boils down simply to a trivial reference counting issue. "People > urge to have this bug fixed " has nothing to do with "people want to > take over PyGTK". > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
2013/4/4 Ma Xiaojun : > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Alberto Ruiz wrote: >> Volunteer != hobbyist. >> >> Professionals volunteer their time and do their best to get things >> working. Want something solved and it doesn't happen? Ask nicely. >> Still doesn't happen? Too bad, nobody's fault really. >> >> The community doesn't work for you. Each individual sets its own goals >> and motivations. If something doesn't happen, you can ask nicely how >> you can help to make it happen and sooner or later you'll figure out >> how to go and fix it yourself (sometimes that means becoming a >> maintainer, but to achieve that you need time, effort and a >> constructive mindset). > > It is a problem reported as early as 2010. > It affects fair amount of software. And? >> Actually, it is your problem, we have a code of conduct for a reason, >> if you offend people willingly in any GNOME communication channel you >> have a problem. Not caring on whether people get offended or not, is >> in my opinion your problem. And people willing to work with you and >> help you depends at a large extend on how nice you behave with them. >> >> You are creating another problem in the process. Please keep other's >> people's feelings into account and give up that proud undertone in >> your responses. > > You feel offended because a real bug is put in front of you? It is not about being offended about a bug, it is about how disgusting it is to talk to someone who treats you like crap. -- Cheers, Alberto Ruiz ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:14 PM, Karen Sandler wrote: > Community dynamics are an important part of how GNOME functions generally > and all discussion here should be mindful of that fact. Harsh and negative > tone frustrates productive discussion and often causes unnecessary > reaction traffic which just wastes people's time. Everyone would be happy if any of you fix the real problem rather than educating about community dynamics. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, 2013-04-04 at 23:11 +0800, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > It is a problem reported as early as 2010. > It affects fair amount of software. Age of a bug report isn't a criterion for anything. Why haven't you pushed for fixing it earlier if it was known since 2010? ;) > You feel offended because a real bug is put in front of you? No, it's not the topic but your tone. Don't mix that up. andre -- Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:15 PM, Alberto Ruiz wrote: > And? No need to further rant how you tend to make excuses of bugs rather than try hard to fix them. > It is not about being offended about a bug, it is about how disgusting > it is to talk to someone who treats you like crap. How can you imagine the developers of potentially crappy software? ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Andre Klapper wrote: > Age of a bug report isn't a criterion for anything. Why haven't you > pushed for fixing it earlier if it was known since 2010? ;) > > No, it's not the topic but your tone. Don't mix that up. Nice. I began to aware of this bug today. But you should aware of it as early as 2010. If you care about the tone rather than the essence of the problem, well, invaliding many hypes about free software. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
s/invaliding/invalidating ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
Don't feed the troll. 2013/4/4 Andre Klapper > On Thu, 2013-04-04 at 23:11 +0800, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > > It is a problem reported as early as 2010. > > It affects fair amount of software. > > Age of a bug report isn't a criterion for anything. Why haven't you > pushed for fixing it earlier if it was known since 2010? ;) > > > You feel offended because a real bug is put in front of you? > > No, it's not the topic but your tone. Don't mix that up. > > andre > -- > Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net > http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ > > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Daniel Mustieles García wrote: > Don't feed the troll. Sounds like you didn't check the bug or you don't understand code. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On 4 April 2013 16:37, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Daniel Mustieles García > wrote: >> Don't feed the troll. > > Sounds like you didn't check the bug or you don't understand code. sounds like you should take a break from desktop-devel-list, and also learn how to behave in a public setting. ciao, Emmanuele. -- W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:43 PM, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: > sounds like you should take a break from desktop-devel-list, and also > learn how to behave in a public setting. Despite the later coming BS, you feel bad because, as OP, a bug is presented to you with a honest question? ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, April 4, 2013 11:16 am, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:14 PM, Karen Sandler wrote: >> Community dynamics are an important part of how GNOME functions >> generally >> and all discussion here should be mindful of that fact. Harsh and >> negative >> tone frustrates productive discussion and often causes unnecessary >> reaction traffic which just wastes people's time. > > Everyone would be happy if any of you fix the real problem rather than > educating about community dynamics. I understand that your bug complaint is important to you, but as I said, community dynamics are very important to this list. As Andre said, it's not the topic but your tone. This is not the first thread like this from you. Please review our code of conduct, https://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct/ Be respectful and considerate, patient and generous. karen ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On 4 April 2013 16:46, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:43 PM, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: >> sounds like you should take a break from desktop-devel-list, and also >> learn how to behave in a public setting. > > Despite the later coming BS, you feel bad because, as OP, a bug is > presented to you with a honest question? you keep thinking this is about the bug: it's not. it's about your unproductive tone, your aggressive and pointless arguing, and your confrontational attitude. open source is about collaboration. behaving like you do is not a good policy for collaborating with other people. best policy, now that *everyone* told you that you're behaving like an ass, is to apologize and move on — and preferably, learn something from the whole thing. ciao, Emmanuele. -- W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:48 PM, Karen Sandler wrote: > I understand that your bug complaint is important to you, but as I said, > community dynamics are very important to this list. As Andre said, it's > not the topic but your tone. This is not the first thread like this from > you. Please review our code of conduct, > > https://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct/ > > Be respectful and considerate, patient and generous. I understand it's good to ask nicely. But for this bug, such job is done by other people already. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:51 PM, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: > you keep thinking this is about the bug: it's not. > > it's about your unproductive tone, your aggressive and pointless > arguing, and your confrontational attitude. > > open source is about collaboration. behaving like you do is not a good > policy for collaborating with other people. I've already wasted a good amount of time of to remind you this bug. It's you keep saying BS without give a shit to the origin bug, except the guy who help attach the patch. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 04, 2013 at 11:51:50PM +0800, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > I understand it's good to ask nicely. > But for this bug, such job is done by other people already. Are you really saying that you're out to be annoying? Not sure how you expect to get things done with such an attitude (in this project). -- Regards, Olav ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
I only care software quality, go solve the real problem. Don't assume I'm the only user of the API. Since a patch is already given, I don't think I can any further action on my side. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 04, 2013 at 11:19:49PM +0800, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:15 PM, Alberto Ruiz wrote: > > And? > > No need to further rant how you tend to make excuses of bugs rather > than try hard to fix them. Every software has bugs. GNOME has loads. We have Bugzilla to track them. Help is appreciated to fix these, but pretty much all the developers know that there are bugs. Sometimes bugs are forgotten and just a ping is enough to get some progress in a bug. The entire "OMG there is a bug" thing is not impressive. -- Regards, Olav ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Olav Vitters wrote: > Are you really saying that you're out to be annoying? Not sure how you > expect to get things done with such an attitude (in this project). Bad mistakes deserve severe criticism, that simple. I don't some people say something rude to me in private whatever, though. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Olav Vitters wrote: > Every software has bugs. GNOME has loads. We have Bugzilla to track > them. Help is appreciated to fix these, but pretty much all the > developers know that there are bugs. > > Sometimes bugs are forgotten and just a ping is enough to get some > progress in a bug. So I brought up a honest question, how long should a bug be fixed. This should be a scientific measure of "Quality of Support". > The entire "OMG there is a bug" thing is not impressive. Well, what's wrong if I just said OMG? ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
Le 04/04/2013 17:56, Ma Xiaojun a écrit : > I've already wasted a good amount of time of to remind you this bug. > It's you keep saying BS without give a shit to the origin bug, except > the guy who help attach the patch. ...which you could have done to be constructive. But now, what happens? Even if the patch is committed (which it should), you'll need to have your distro use that patch, or patch it yourself locally. Complaining doesn't change the fact that the module is unmaintained. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
Le 04/04/2013 18:06, Ma Xiaojun a écrit : > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Olav Vitters wrote: >> Are you really saying that you're out to be annoying? Not sure how you >> expect to get things done with such an attitude (in this project). > > Bad mistakes deserve severe criticism, that simple. > I don't some people say something rude to me in private whatever, though. You don't need to be rude to have something get fixed. It's quite the opposite. The more rude you get, the less interest people get in fixing your problem. Talk to someone like a dog, and he will behave like one. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
Le 04/04/2013 18:08, Ma Xiaojun a écrit : > So I brought up a honest question, how long should a bug be fixed. > This should be a scientific measure of "Quality of Support". What kind of support do you expect from an unmaintained module ? ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:12 AM, Luis Menina wrote: > ...which you could have done to be constructive. But now, what happens? > Even if the patch is committed (which it should), you'll need to have > your distro use that patch, or patch it yourself locally. Complaining > doesn't change the fact that the module is unmaintained. It was just a title, a honest question that unfortunately annoyed some people. Repeat, time to fix a bug is a scientific measure of "Quality of Support". Many people say it could be committed into git, who is taking action? ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
This is a fruitless discussion. Let me explain a little what people are trying to communicate to you. You're looking at this in a very rigid manner. In an open source community, your credentials matter. When your positive, we're positive, if you're sour, well you're going to get a likewise reaction. If you're ultimate goal is to get the bug fixed then you' need to social engineer to do it. Sometimes that just means that you might have to take over maintainership. That's how a lot of people got to become maintainers or core developers because the took something that annoyed them and fixed it. "Open" in open source means that you have the ability to address problem directly rather than waiting on others. Barring that, you'll have to be polite and observe the social niceties. This should not be particularly new to you. We do this every day not in just in a open source project but in our daily lives. All you're doing right now is antagonizing people here and you're no closer to fixing your bug, but instead you just have people mad at you. It's a fruitless discussion. sri On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Olav Vitters wrote: > > Every software has bugs. GNOME has loads. We have Bugzilla to track > > them. Help is appreciated to fix these, but pretty much all the > > developers know that there are bugs. > > > > Sometimes bugs are forgotten and just a ping is enough to get some > > progress in a bug. > > So I brought up a honest question, how long should a bug be fixed. > This should be a scientific measure of "Quality of Support". > > > The entire "OMG there is a bug" thing is not impressive. > > Well, what's wrong if I just said OMG? > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Luis Menina wrote: > You don't need to be rude to have something get fixed. It's quite the > opposite. The more rude you get, the less interest people get in fixing > your problem. Talk to someone like a dog, and he will behave like one. What kind of rude you find in OP? I don't want to put a word on developers who care more about the tone of user report rather than technical merits of problems. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
Guys, seriously, at this point, haven't you figured out that it doesn't really matter what we say? He knows he's wrong, he just doesn't want to ack. it, and I think he is enjoying this game. The point is made, let's just ignore him and move along, we have better things to do. 2013/4/4 Sriram Ramkrishna : > This is a fruitless discussion. > > Let me explain a little what people are trying to communicate to you. > You're looking at this in a very rigid manner. > > In an open source community, your credentials matter. When your positive, > we're positive, if you're sour, well you're going to get a likewise > reaction. If you're ultimate goal is to get the bug fixed then you' need to > social engineer to do it. Sometimes that just means that you might have to > take over maintainership. That's how a lot of people got to become > maintainers or core developers because the took something that annoyed them > and fixed it. "Open" in open source means that you have the ability to > address problem directly rather than waiting on others. > > Barring that, you'll have to be polite and observe the social niceties. > This should not be particularly new to you. We do this every day not in > just in a open source project but in our daily lives. All you're doing > right now is antagonizing people here and you're no closer to fixing your > bug, but instead you just have people mad at you. It's a fruitless > discussion. > > sri > > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Ma Xiaojun wrote: >> >> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Olav Vitters wrote: >> > Every software has bugs. GNOME has loads. We have Bugzilla to track >> > them. Help is appreciated to fix these, but pretty much all the >> > developers know that there are bugs. >> > >> > Sometimes bugs are forgotten and just a ping is enough to get some >> > progress in a bug. >> >> So I brought up a honest question, how long should a bug be fixed. >> This should be a scientific measure of "Quality of Support". >> >> > The entire "OMG there is a bug" thing is not impressive. >> >> Well, what's wrong if I just said OMG? >> ___ >> desktop-devel-list mailing list >> desktop-devel-list@gnome.org >> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > > > > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list -- Cheers, Alberto Ruiz ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:26 AM, Luis Menina wrote: > What kind of support do you expect from an unmaintained module ? Then you just answer: "Probably forever." I accept it. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
Le 04/04/2013 18:30, Ma Xiaojun a écrit : > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:26 AM, Luis Menina wrote: >> What kind of support do you expect from an unmaintained module ? > > Then you just answer: "Probably forever." > I accept it. pygtk stats: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?product=pygtk 148 bugs, 56 without response, 2 patches accepted but not committed (for four years), 40 patches unreviewed... >From pygtk.org: "Existing authors of PyGTK applications are also recommended to port their applications to PyGObject to take advantage of new features appearing in GTK-3 and beyond." "PyGTK-2.24 will be the final major release of PyGTK. Additional bug-fix releases may appear when necessary to maintain compatibility and stability with the GTK-2.24 series." Translate "may" here by "if someone steps up to do the work". One fair argument is that it's a bit hard to know from the bugzilla product page if maintainers have "resigned", but it just takes sending an email to them to know that. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Thu, Apr 04, 2013 at 11:16:21PM +0800, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:14 PM, Karen Sandler wrote: > > Community dynamics are an important part of how GNOME functions generally > > and all discussion here should be mindful of that fact. Harsh and negative > > tone frustrates productive discussion and often causes unnecessary > > reaction traffic which just wastes people's time. > > Everyone would be happy if any of you fix the real problem rather than > educating about community dynamics. Don't speak on my behalf or anyone else here please. I'm not a developer, nor is Karen. We seem to be in agreement that your tone is not very encouraging and trying to make that clear to you. If you don't care, cool. But at least understand that we're fine with not being developers. -- Regards, Olav ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:28 AM, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote: > This is a fruitless discussion. > > Let me explain a little what people are trying to communicate to you. > You're looking at this in a very rigid manner. > > In an open source community, your credentials matter. When your positive, > we're positive, if you're sour, well you're going to get a likewise > reaction. If you're ultimate goal is to get the bug fixed then you' need to > social engineer to do it. Sometimes that just means that you might have to > take over maintainership. That's how a lot of people got to become > maintainers or core developers because the took something that annoyed them > and fixed it. "Open" in open source means that you have the ability to > address problem directly rather than waiting on others. This is nice answer. But people didn't answer the OP question honestly. They just try to prove that I was rude and try to make excuses of the OP bug. > Barring that, you'll have to be polite and observe the social niceties. > This should not be particularly new to you. We do this every day not in > just in a open source project but in our daily lives. All you're doing > right now is antagonizing people here and you're no closer to fixing your > bug, but instead you just have people mad at you. It's a fruitless > discussion. Sounds like your society is not big enough to have some opposites. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:30 AM, Alberto Ruiz wrote: > The point is made, let's just ignore him and move along, we have > better things to do. I have better thing to do, either. It was just a bug notice. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: How long should it take to fix a obvious memory leak?
On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 12:36:09AM +0800, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > This is nice answer. > But people didn't answer the OP question honestly. > They just try to prove that I was rude and try to make excuses of the OP bug. You already got an answer that pygtk is not maintained, and that gobject introspection is the thing which is maintained. Seems really clear. Further, that you want to have this bug fixed does not mean anything to me. I'm not a developer. You see this as "excuses", seems a somewhat strange interpretation to me. -- Regards, Olav ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
